The Megyn Kelly Show - Is This the End for President Biden? More Democrats and the Press Call for Biden to Resign, with Charles C.W. Cooke and MBD | Ep. 829

Episode Date: July 3, 2024

Megyn Kelly begins the show discussing President Biden considering whether he can recover from the disastrous debate performance, the latest headlines from the New York Times and the media raising questions about Biden's ability to continue to lead, and more. Then, Charles C.W. Cooke and Michael Brendan Dougherty of National Review join to discuss Biden's suitability for president, the Democrats now on record calling for Biden to step down, the breaking news on the press starting to turn against Biden, the need to defend democracy, reports that Hunter Biden is attending White House meetings with Joe Biden as a "backup Biden," the latest polling that shows president's condition is changing election map projections, and more. Cooke- https://podcast.charlescwcooke.com/Dougherty- https://www.nationalreview.com/author/michael-brendan-dougherty/Follow The Megyn Kelly Show on all social platforms:YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/MegynKellyTwitter: http://Twitter.com/MegynKellyShowInstagram: http://Instagram.com/MegynKellyShowFacebook: http://Facebook.com/MegynKellyShow Find out more information at: https://www.devilmaycaremedia.com/megynkellyshow

Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at noon east. Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show. Oh my lord, we are drinking from the fire hose of news today all about President Biden and we are nearing, I believe, the end for him. It is one day before our nation celebrates our independence, and in our 248 years, we have never experienced anything quite like what we are witnessing right now. The dam is starting to break against President Joe Biden, as more Democrats and media raise questions about his ability to continue to lead. For the first time, we are seeing indications, at least in the media, that President Biden

himself is seriously considering whether he can recover from that devastating debate performance. The New York Times moments ago out with this headline, quote, Biden told ally that he is weighing whether to continue in the race. After the article published, White House spokesperson Andrew Bates said it was absolutely false, adding that if the New York Times had provided us with more than seven minutes to comment, we would have told them so. A denial does not make it false. It is the Biden White House saying it's false, but the New York Times claiming to have a source whom they describe as a Biden ally saying it's so. This is just the latest in the drip, drip, drip coming from publications

like the Times and the Washington Post, and I could go on. In a significant development late last night, the Washington Post reporting that former President Obama has privately told allies that Mr. Biden's, quote, already tough path to reelection grew more challenging after his shaky debate performance, end quote, and that he's spoken directly to Mr. Biden to, quote, offer his support. Remember what we discussed yesterday, James Carville saying Obama and Bill Clinton, that their role here is more ceremonial. They will not lead this effort, at least not publicly.

Puck News is reporting on leaked. This may be the most important thing you hear today. Internal polling from Democrats that confirms some of their worst fears that Joe Biden is hemorrhaging support, especially in the battleground states in the wake of this debate. And what's more, previously non-competitive states are now in play. New Mexico, New Hampshire, Virginia, which could hand the White House back to former President Trump in a landslide victory for him. We will go over this polling in detail. And as we mentioned at the top, there has been a special

kind of betrayal of President Biden. I'm sure that's how he would see it from the New York Times, which has in the past been among the worst offenders in falsely propping up president Biden in response to any attack on his age or apparent infirmity. Less than two weeks ago, the times published a piece on all the quote misleading videos from conservatives that quote twisted mundane moments to paint him in an unflattering light when it comes to his age issues. Get ready for some political whiplash because the great lady is now bashing the elderly president and using those very same videos to do it. Apparently now they see them differently. Reporting that he is increasingly confused or listless, forgetting names, mixing up facts,

freezing, that he's shown a sharp decline just within the past few months, that he was given and required nap time during his debate prep, which only began each day at Camp David at 11 a.m. The White House says, well, he worked out and did other work prior to showing up at 11. Special afternoon nap time for the leader of the free world. And then there's this frightening assessment from a former U.S. official who helped prepare the president ahead of his recent G7 trip. This official was asked by the New York Times, they went back to him, if one could imagine putting Mr. Biden into the same room with President Putin of Russia. The official responded, I just don't know. And the Times pointing out that a European official involved in all of this responded more clearly and flatly.

No, we would be remiss if we did not mention this. Just two days ago, the Supreme Court issued its opinion on presidential immunity, noting that, quote, unlike anyone else, the president is a branch of government and the Constitution vests in him sweeping powers and duties. Apparently, Barack Obama's Homeland Security Secretary, who is also a lawyer, may need a refresher on this. Listen to what Jay Johnson said on MSNBC, this isn't trying to reassure us about a second Biden term, about President Biden and the presidency. A presidency is more than just one man, one woman. It's an administration. I would take Joe Biden's worst day at age 86.

So long as he has people around him like like Avril Haines, Samantha Power, Gina Raimondo, supporting him over Donald Trump any day? No, sir. The president is not more than one man. Most Americans don't even know the names of the people you just mentioned. They did not vote for them, and they would not be voting for them this November. The presidency is just one person person and the current person holding the office is in serious political trouble. Joining me now, two of our favorites for NR Day here at the MK show, Charles C.W. Cook is a senior writer for National Review and host of the Charles C.W. Cook podcast. And Michael Brendan Doherty is also a senior writer for National Review. You can find all of their work by becoming an NR Plus subscriber. Highly recommend. And you should do it today. Charles MBD, welcome back to the show on what's turning

out to be really a momentous day. The White House had done a decent job of battening down the hatches and trying to stop the crisis, it's failing. And the polling, I think, is at the heart of why it's failing. Charles, your take on the outline that I just presented to the news today? Well, I think that what you're seeing is one of the biggest media and party scandals in American history. It seems abundantly clear to me what has happened here. For months and years even, many people have said that Joe Biden was not up to the job and certainly that he wouldn't be up to the job for another four years until 2029 when he'd be 86. And those people were shouted at. They were told they were wrong.

They were told that they were informed by cheap fakes, that they were driven by partisan animus, and so on and so forth. And that wasn't true. And most of the people who said that knew it wasn't true. Now, the media has pressed the other button on the switchboard, has gone completely in the opposite direction, and is now trying to force him out of the race. Why? Because it thinks he might lose. It really is that simple. This is not being driven by love of country or a fear that the executive branch is being run by somebody who is not up to it. It is being driven by a preference for the survival and thriving of the Democratic Party. And so the same press and Democratic establishment that has been telling American voters, who never bought this, by the way, 86% of American voters think he's too old, that they should not trust their own eyes for years, is now insistent that they should trust

their own eyes and that Biden has to go. So I think it's worth looking at this very real problem, which is not just a problem of the media or of perception, in its correct context, which is a scandal. These people have been playing with the presidency. They've been playing with the federal government. They've been playing with the health and safety of the United States. And they got caught. And what we're now seeing unfold is the product of that. Had they done their jobs when they knew, and they knew. There's a New York Post piece today about how Carl Bernstein, that name ring a bell? The guy who followed the lead to bring down Richard Nixon, the guy who doesn't seem too worried about where stories lead, even if they destroy a presidency, knew for years what was going on. It heard 15 to 20 times that the president was not up to it.

You know, this is a scandal that has been caused by a long-term cover-up by a press that is interested in one thing and one thing only, which is the health of the Democratic Party and its ability to beat Republicans. MBD, Justice Charles was speaking. This broke from Bloomberg News. Dozens of Democratic lawmakers are considering signing a letter demanding that President Joe Biden withdraw from this race, according to a senior party official, as panic mounts that he will cost them not only the

presidency, but control of Congress. The dam broke yesterday on Democratic officials speaking out about him running again. We'll get to who spoke out and how. But you've even had Nancy Pelosi admitting that it's a fair question whether this was an episode or an actual condition the president suffered and showed evidence of. You had James Clyburn, the man who got him the nomination in 2020, saying he backs Biden, but he would back VP Harris if Biden steps aside. You've had more Democrats on the record saying Biden needs to step down. We're going to lose with him. And now this from Bloomberg, dozens, that's the number, dozens of Democratic lawmakers considering signing a letter demanding that he withdraw from this race. I don't think he has more than a week left. Your thoughts?

I totally agree with you. The signs were evident in the first minutes after the debate when CNN just gave up. I mean, CNN's entire panel started openly mourning the Biden presidency as if he had died on stage. And you saw this proceeded in steps afterward. Over the weekend, the media came to its conclusion you saw the new york times editorial board say that joe biden for the good of the country has to step aside i saw editorial boards all over the country uh for newspapers saying the same thing and then all the reporting was about isolating the biden family it oh, they're going to have a meeting on Sunday

and Jill Biden is going to be heavily influential. The meeting happens. The New York Times immediately reports Hunter Biden was the strongest advocate for staying in and fighting it out. Now, when the New York Times reports that, they know what they're doing. They're signaling to the public that the president is now taking advice from his ne'er-do-well

son, and that's who's giving him the advice to stay in. So the pressure was on. Now, there were other people still taking the Biden side in the most disgraceful performance of a lifetime something out of czarist russia mika brzezinski went on morning joe first thing and gave a soliloquy about joe biden's character you know as if she were addressing this directly to jill and hunter saying hold on stay in we're with you but that consensus is falling apart too much has been said too much has been seen and the polls are disastrous um so now they're they're scrambling to save the ship the party ship as charles says and the the real point is i mean what we saw last week was the media and lots of senior democrats have engaged in a fraud and in a

fraudulent use of the chief executive power of the united states joe biden is not in custody of his faculties he is the because he is being held in custody by his wife, his son, and aides that no one's ever heard of, like Annie Tomasini, his deputy chief of staff, or Joe Biden's senior aide, Anthony Bernal. These people are, as Joe Biden becomes weaker and more infirm, their power increases. So this is a fraud, and it has to end. I mean, this shouldn't just end with an announcement that Joe Biden is going to leave the race, the 2020 race, and let Democrats decide. This should end very promptly with Joe Biden's resignation or his removal from office and Kamala Harris becoming president of the United States. That's why we elect vice presidents is for situations like this.

I never thought I'd advocate for the elevation of Kamala Harris to anything, but he's not fit for the job. Neither did I. And I don't I don't welcome this situation, but this is what we do. And Jill Biden went out and said, you know, in the initial defense, you know, he's not just the man for the job. He's the only man for the job. It doesn't work like that. We elect a successor along with our president when we elect a president and we elect a successor for just these circumstances. And now after Thursday, you know, for years, I've believed he's unfit for office for years. I believed he's had bad days and worst days and that he was unreliable. But after Thursday, it became plain to everyone that Joe Biden's presidency has ended at some

point in the past. And if it's ended, it has to be succeeded by Kamala Harris, not by his aides, not by the people around him, according to MSNBC. It has to be Harris and they have to move on. If they don't want her to be the nominee, let them decide that at the convention. If the American people don't want her to remain president, we'll decide that in November. And that's, that's it. This is, that's what the times call for now. Um, so this is what our constitution provides. Wait, this just in CNN now reporting, Joe Biden has privately acknowledged that the next

stretch of days will be critical to whether he can save his reelection bid for president, making clear to an ally Tuesday that he understands what would prompt him to accept that he can't make it. It's just not working. It would be a scenario in which, quote, the polls are plummeting, the fundraising is drying up and the interviews are going badly, said that person. Quote, he's not oblivious. This is the same reporting. And again, they're quoting an ally. That's who the New York Times quoted as well, an unnamed Biden ally. The White House denied it. Presumably they deny this report as well. But I mean, when you see the same language appearing in multiple publications, that's somebody getting out there, arguably to soften the ground. And what we, you know, at least two out of three of us believe is about to come,

which is at some point soon, an announcement, another update just hitting. Democratic representative Summer Lee, Democrat from Pennsylvania, just said in a radio interview. This is per Scott McFarland at CBS News. Time is not on our side. We have a few months to do a monumental task. If our president decides this is not a pathway forward for him, that there is not one. We have to move very quickly. There's not going to be time for a primary. That time has passed. The vice president is the obvious choice. She's sitting right there. She's already been in the White House and has the name recognition and has been on the trail and the optics of pushing aside a black woman. And Summer Lee is one herself. It's not good. The she's just the latest. We raise that because she's just the latest Charles Democrat

to break with the party line. There's a report out today that Senator Joe Manchin, who's now an independent, but still caucuses with the Dems, was ready to come out on a Sunday show this week and say Joe Biden must not run, cannot be the party nominee. He was pressured by Chuck Schumer directly and other top Dems in leadership not to do that. That would be a sitting U.S. senator with some power, some serious power amongst independents anyway, in respect. They stopped him. They did not stop Senator Whitehouse from Rhode Island from coming out and saying that the debate was horrifying and that Joe Biden seriously needs to reflect on whether he can continue. And then here's another top name, Jamie Raskin,

speaking out in a pretty telling way on Chris Hayes' show on MSNBC last night, South 15. And I know this is a moving target. It's got to happen quickly. But I can guarantee you, Chris Hayes, there will be massive unity and focus on that task when we get to the end of this process. And it's happening very quickly, I think. Okay.

It's happening very quickly and that there will be massive support for whomever emerges. Charles, what do you make of that? I mean, this is all breaking right now. Well, I think that there is an enormous amount of pressure and it is indeed moving fast. But I also think that the way our system works in practice is that Joe Biden has to acquiesce. And he is probably the least likely person to do so that I can think of. Now, by that, I don't mean that he won't be forced to eventually. But Joe Biden is not the man that all of the entreaties to him pretend that he is. If you read

the New York Times' editorial asking him to step aside, or any of the press's injunctions, they say he's a wonderful president and a man of great honor. Well, he's not. He's a terrible president. And he is a habitual liar. Joe Biden, until he was reinvented in 2019, because he had to be because he was running against Donald Trump, was a mediocre blowhard whose fame came from his saying odd things to people, his losing his temper with members of the public, journalists, voters alike, and his having been removed from the presidential primary in the late 1980s, 87, 88, because he had plagiarized in Neil Kinnock's speech. This is not a good man. It's also not a man who knows his limitations. One of the reasons that his presidency has been such a disaster is that he came in in 2021 and was talked out of evaluating the situation properly

by people like John Meacham. Joe Biden should have looked around in 2021 and thought all of the money has been spent on COVID. We are at risk of inflation. We have a divided nation that is coming out of a crisis. I will be a caretaker. Had he done that, he would have been relatively popular. He would have managed to live up to the lie about him that had been created of a vuncular Joe Biden, good old granddad, Joe Biden. But instead, he was told, you are Lyndon Johnson. You are Franklin Roosevelt. You are a great man who will preside over great change. And he believed it. And he still believes it. And that's going to make it very difficult for him to be talked out of running again, and certainly talked out of staying president. He does not want

to be, understandably, the second president in American history to resign the office. He doesn't want his name to be next to Richard Nixon in the history books. Look at how Joe Biden has responded every time anyone has even asked him about his age. He shouts at them. He says, I'm better than you. He says, I could do more push-ups than you. I could take you. Do you want to have a fight? This is not somebody who is going to sit down and calmly think about his country and the situation in which he's put his party. He may be kicked out of office anyway by the sheer amount of pressure. This may become untenable. I suspect it probably will now. But the Democrats have their work cut out because of who they are dealing with. And the last thing I would say is not just who

they are dealing with, but who they are dealing with relatives. Joe Biden seems pathologically incapable of seeing Joe Biden as anything other than the indispensable man. And Hunter Biden, we learned from the New York Times, needs him to stay in, doesn't just want him to stay in, needs him to stay in because he wants a pardon. And he recognizes that his fortunes and his father's are inextricable. So this is actually still going to be a heavy lift. And I suspect that the New York Times and CNN stories that you related in the introduction to this question are connected to that, in that there are many in the press who are now frustrated that they haven't got rid of him yet and they're trying to force the issue.

The press has turned on him entirely. There are only a few MSNBC years hanging on, but CNN has turned on him. Many at MSNBC have turned on him. The Times has turned on him, the Atlanta Journal Constitution, even the Washington Post now, as we laid out and many other publications here, he can't withstand this now with the Democrats starting to turn and leak and the press digging deeper with these reports about how many cognitive issues he's been having, how it's gotten worse in the past three to six months, that it's just going to get worse. These things don't get better.

I mean, I've been in the press long enough to know that. To your point, Charles, about how he responds when someone challenges him on age or infirmity. James Rosen, formerly a colleague at Fox News, now at Newsmax, who covers the White House for them, asked Joe Biden directly at a presser months ago about this issue about what actually we have. We have the soundbite. Okay. Let me play you what he asked. I'd like to, um, I'd like to raise a delicate subject, uh, but with utmost respect for your life accomplishments and the high office you hold a poll released this morning by Politico morning consult found 49% of registered voters disagreeing with the statement, Joe Biden is mentally fit. Not even a majority of Democrats who responded

strongly affirmed that statement. Well, let you all make the judgment whether they're correct. Well, so the question I have for you, sir, if you'd let me finish, is why do you suppose such large segments of the American electorate have come to harbor such profound concerns about your cognitive fitness? Thank you. I have no idea. And that was the entirety of the president's answer. And James Rosen revealing this week he was banned from White House press conferences for the next eight months for asking that question. I give you CBS News and this exchange from 2020. No, I haven't taken a test. Why the hell would I take a test?

Come on, man. That's like saying you before you got in this program, you take a test where you're taking cocaine or not. What do you think, huh? Are you a junkie? Are you a junkie? It was a happened to be an African-American reporter asking him whether he had taken a cognitive test. Defensive. Wouldn't? Yeah, no, I haven't. That'd be like you being asked to take a test for cocaine. Whoa, wait, what? And then I'll give you one other example of what's happening here. Karine Jean-Pierre was asked yesterday whether he has taken a cognitive test. We have this as a SOT, Deb.

And here's what she did. Watch. After the debate, did the president get examined by a doctor or did he get a neurological scan? Neurological scan? Look, what I can say is that, just to take a step back, it was a bad night. We understand that it was a bad night. And the president has regular annual physicals that we release in a thorough report. We're going to continue to do that. I don't have anything else beyond that. So was the last time he was seen by a doctor then in February?

I just don't have anything beyond that, beyond the question of a neurological exam. She didn't answer. And Phil Houston, who ran the CIA deception detection program for 25 years, he invented it. It's used by the secret service, the CIA, the FBI and law enforcement across the country. And a good friend of mine will tell you that one of the leading indicators of lying is convincing behavior and attacking the questioner. And that is what you're seeing unfold before your very eyes there. We don't know. And she references his physical exams. They did not MBD include a cognitive exam. This was a big issue when the president was physically examined by the doctor. And if he were fit and they were confident of it, they would have that exam done again and put out immediately. His presidency hangs in the

balance. There's a reason they're so defensive about it. They won't answer it and they won't do it. Right. I mean, they won't do it because he won't pass. We had Robert Hurd's report earlier in the year saying that Joe Biden presents as a kindly old man who forgets things, who forgets major life events, who forgets the years he was vice president. And the problem is everyone who continues to deny this is in a sense knowingly participating in this what is now a fraud a fraud of the executive office of our federal government he is not in charge anymore he is under the care of a handful of other people who are making decisions around him puppeteering him giving him god knows what i mean he did improve during that debate and then

improved it as the evening went on and he went to a democratic watch party so they're obviously like even mistiming his medicines now um he he needs to not be governing us he's being governed by others and um you know the the real question I have is whether this continues to be a scandal. If they replace him, does the Democratic Party keep facing tough questions? Who knew what and when? And what did you describe to others? Who did you talk to? What did you do to alert people that the president was, you know, non-competent? And so I think that's that's the question going forward. I think it's like it's like Charles just said about Bernstein. His report on CNN the other night was stunning.

It was jaw dropping. He actually said, as he points out, 15 to 20 times in the past six months, it's gotten worse that Joe Biden has frozen up, that he's had these cognitive issues similar to what we saw in the debate, that he gets so frozen physically it resembles rigor mortis, which is what happens to a dead body after it dies. And it does beg the question, does it not, Mike? Where was Carl Bernstein when he was learning all of this? Is he writing a book? Was he saving it for a publication? Why are we only learning of this now that there's been a public meltdown beyond what we've all already seen with our eyes and ears? saying that this kind of behavior of senior White House staff, particularly those connected to Jill Biden, hiding Joe Biden from other senior White House staff and even his cabinet members, goes back to the first year of his presidency.

And the excuse then was to protect him from COVID-19. But it just continued on as a habit. And so there have been very few people even seeing him even able to assess his condition. And I think, you know, even many senior people in the administration have probably been only getting him in the way that MSNBC and CNN present him or that he was able to do with, you know, various, you know uh performances like the state of the union address where he seemed to like rise up to the occasion temporarily and so they i think a lot of people genuinely were shocked and and horrified by what they saw last week which accounts for this you know hysterical reaction i mean one of the the craziest reports I read was that Kamala Harris's husband was at a Hollywood fundraising party for a debate watch party. And three minutes in Rob Reiner is shouting and screaming, the Democrats are going to lose. And Jane Fonda was crying. I mean, this is,

you know, they went, they immediately locked into save the democratic party, But, you know, first, I think before they can save the Democratic Party, they have to show minimal responsibility for taking care of the presidency itself. And that means removing Joe Biden or pressuring him to resign immediately. Until they do that, we don't know whether the public is going to be thankful to them and relieved. I mean, listen, there are millions of people who have said, millions of Democrats, the majority of Democrats said Joe Biden is too old, you know, and there may be a huge constituency of independent voters who don't want a baby boomer in Donald Trump, who don't want a member of the Jurassic era in Joe Biden. And, you know, they'll be relieved that there's someone as young as Kamala Harris coming onto the scene or Gretchen Whitmer or Gavin Newsom,

and they may transfer the vote. But there are going to be others. I think conservatives should continue to press Democrats. What did you know? When did you know it? And not just Democrats, but of course, there are auxiliaries in the media i mean listen we got these these thumb-sucking pieces from jill abramson saying that the media wasn't able to penetrate the biden white house are you kidding me the media gave itself pulitzer prizes for russiagate coverage and yet missed this story, which was obvious to anyone with eyes and an internet connection? Give me a break. I mean, what did you know and when did you know it? And why did you say for months that he was the sharpest he's ever been?

Who knew? There's more breaking news coming in and it ties together with what I'm about to present to you. All right, so stand by. I talked about the dam breaking on the on the dams, the congressional leaders starting to call for him to step down or to to stop his campaign more accurately. Representative Lloyd Doggett is a Republican from Texas. He's 77 years old. He was the first yesterday. I represent the heart of a congressional district once represented by Lyndon Johnson under very different circumstances. He made the painful decision to withdraw. President Biden should do the same. He says, my decision to make these strong reservations public is not done lightly, nor does it diminish my respect for the president. And then he goes on to say, but I am hopeful that Joe Biden will make the painful and difficult decision to withdraw. Then there's Jared Golden, who represents Maine's second congressional district, a Democrat.

This is a veteran who was deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan as a U.S. Marine. He began serving in the House in January of 2019. He came out, wrote an op ed in the Banger Daily News saying Donald Trump is going to win the election and democracy will be just fine, but not pulling any punches on this question of whether Biden can win. Then I mentioned Senator Whitehouse of Rhode Island saying he was horrified and that we need to be assured the president and his team are being candid with us about his condition.

Senator Peter Welsh of Vermont told Semaphore, I really do criticize the campaign for a dismissive attitude toward people who are raising questions or discussion about his wellbeing. That is just facing the reality we're in. Representative Mike Quigley of Illinois told CNN it's his decision, but I want him to appreciate at this time just how much it impacts not just his race, but all of the other races coming in November. It wasn't just a horrible night, but I won't go beyond that out of respect for him. I played you, Representative Jamie Raskin of Maryland, an unnamed house dem to Axios, says to them, quote, indignantly, consider me a bedwetter, because that is what the chief financial,

I think it is chief digital officer for the Biden campaign called Democrats expressing concern. Consider me a bedwetter. This is not getting better. Another House Democrat says this is real to ignore what the public obviously feels is ridiculous. What's hard to burn away is the president being walked off the stage by his wife down the stairs after that debate. And now we get this. Actually, I should play one more. Democratic Representative Marie Glucenkamp Perez, she's from the state of Washington, said this to KATU News and ABC affiliate yesterday. It's not 16. About 50 million Americans tuned in and watched that debate. I was one of them for about five very painful minutes. And we all saw what we saw. You can't undo that. And, you know, the

truth, I think, is that Biden is going to lose to Trump. I know that's difficult, but I think the damage has been done by that debate. Should he step down then now, do you believe, or stay in that race? Well, a core tenet of democracy is that you accept the results of an election. And the reality is primary voting has already happened to a degree that Biden is the nominee. And you're going to hear her regret over that. And here's the latest, Charles. New York Times, Democratic leaders in the House and the Senate, this is leadership, refrained on Wednesday from urging their members to rally around Mr. Biden. The private message from congressional leaders was that members should feel free to take whatever

position about Mr. Biden's candidacy was best for their districts based on anonymous sources. More several Democrats from swing districts were awaiting the results of polls in their districts to decide whether they would join the calls for Mr. Biden to step aside. Now, telling them that they can make up their own minds on whether to rally around the president is a green light for them not to. And we'll get to the polls in a minute. But if what we've seen leaked from this internal Democratic polling firm is any indication of what is happening in their districts, it's going to be a bloodbath. These Democratic members are likely to got to the point at which anyone has put enough pressure on Biden to make a dent. Now, that doesn't mean we won't get there. And of

course, you have to get there in fits and starts. And these are some of the fits and some of the starts. But the people that you mentioned, with the exception of Sheldon Whitehouse, who really did surprise me. That awful hack, saying what he said was shocking. But the others actually won't pay a particular price for saying what they said. I mean, Jared Golden is not going to lose support, I think, where he is running for what he wrote. He might gain some support. It makes him look like a crossover candidate. It makes him look bipartisan.

The lady from Washington State, I think, is not in a particularly safe seat. The gentleman from Texas is not in the safest seat. Some people have said, wow, isn't it amazing that they've said this, given that they are under threat because their constituencies are winnable for either party? I just think the opposite. I think when you're in that situation, you often prevail with a poor candidate at the top of the ticket by triangulating. So I think at the moment, we just haven't seen what we are going to have to see. And I think the Democratic Party is saying, say what you want, tailor it to your constituency is still part of that. When you see somebody come out who does not benefit from taking that line and say, look, he's got to go. At that point, the pressure is going to be extraordinary.

But it just hasn't happened yet. And I think the jury is still out on whether it will. If it does, it's going to happen extremely quickly. There is an observation made by Yuval Levin, who is at AI and often writes for National Review, who says that if you look at the way legislation looks when its fate is uncertain, failure and success look exactly the same. Build Back Better looked exactly the same when it was going to pass as when it didn't pass.

Obamacare looked exactly the same at all stages. You just don't know. Failure and success, they look the same while they're happening. And that's the same here, I think. Biden dropping out and Biden staying in are going to look the same. It's very difficult to tell. I don't agree in this particular case. I take the point entirely. entirely but even if he refuses to go he's being mortally wounded by the day by the new york times by morning joe by the washington post by maureen dowd i mean by the day they're they're dinging

him up so badly in the press that it's not recoverable. Somebody who was already not that strong going into the debate. And so I just and not only that, if what we heard in that assessment was correct, that what he's going to look at are the polls, the money and how he does in his upcoming interviews. And I totally disagree with point three. He's sitting with Stephanopoulos for an interview that's going to come out a bit on Friday night's ABC newscast, and then more over the weekend with Stephanopoulos and then ultimately some more on Monday with Good Morning America. It doesn't it's irrelevant. No one cares. Everybody understands he could probably sit with a very friendly interview who's a Democrat operative and do relatively well. That's it. And then he's going to give a press

conference next week on an international matter. You know that this isn't going to work. That's not going to do it. And we need a cognitive test released. We need a doctor made available to the press. We need Joe Biden at that White House briefing room on his feet, taking questions every day from a vicious press corps that's now motivated to press him and to see him soar. And even that I've got my doubts about. Yes. But that press corps is also motivated to turn on a dime if it has to. Now, I think your point is absolutely fair. You know, one of the things that progressives are now experiencing is the odd feeling of not being able to win both ways. If you look at the

way that they've treated, say, Clarence Thomas and Samuel Alito, they lie and lie and lie. They create all of these absurd conspiracy theories and fake stories. And then they say recuse. And Alito and Clarence Thomas say, no, I'm not going to recuse. Thank you very much. But the thing is, is even though they didn't get them to recuse themselves, they still win because they've smeared them. And so in the process of trying to get what they wanted, they've done damage to people that they dislike. That, of course, doesn't work here. If they try and get Biden to go, as you observe, then in the process of doing so, they do damage him. But the press corps and the Democratic Party, and we've just seen this because they've been trying to recreate reality for a year, to some extent successfully. The Democratic Party and the press corps really do believe in their capacity to completely control how people see politics. They are shocked that it didn't work. They're pretending, of course, that they're shocked by what they saw on the stage. What they're actually shocked by is that they got found out. I don't know,

if they are aware yet that you are right. I think there are people in the White House and people in the Democratic Party and people in the press who think that if this doesn't work, they will be able to just focus on Trump and turn on a dime and put all of this pressure in the other direction. Now, I'm not sure they will be able to do that, but I think that they think they'll be able to do that. And I think Joe Biden might think that too. And that's why I'm just not completely sure that it's going to work, even if this does end up mortally wounding him. And the problem they have too, among others, is that Joe Biden every day gets older and unlike covid cannot stay in the basement now. I mean, now more than ever, they can't use that as a strategy now more than ever.

Every time we see the teleprompter, people will have questions. Here's a bit of the reporting late last night from CNN's Jamie Gangel on what she's hearing from Democrats. Take a listen, Sadi. The dam is breaking, Jake. Top Democratic leaders, former administration officials, current administration officials, major donors are all telling us privately, and now we're hearing it publicly,

that they think that President Biden needs to step aside for the good of the party, for the good of the country. They do not think the debate was just a one-off event. They think that there is a health problem. The New York Times also reporting, Michael, that some donors have begun discussing shifting funding from the presidential race to congressional contests. So concerned are they that not only is this looking like a loss of the presidency, but it's looking more and more if Biden's the nominee, like a

potential clean sweep of all the races. I mean, the contested ones in house Senate and in the White House race. That's right. I mean, if if the media and intelligentsia around it are not able to hit the eject button on Joe Biden, the plane is going to crash hard. I mean, because they will have demoralized millions of Democratic voters. Millions of swing voters are looking at Joe Biden after Thursday, and they're seeing in him, you know, memories of their own great grandparents or their own grandparents. And the painful memory of what it was like watching them in decline. And then the media is confirming it. I mean, the media confirmed over the weekend that, you know, senior staffers in the White House tailor their briefing items to the president in order not to trigger his intemperate anger and outbursts. And it's like,

well, I remember when, you know, a senior member of my family was in that stage of life, and they would have those kind of outbursts. And it never, it doesn't get better for them ever. It's a compounding condition and there's no, you know, there are some treatments to slow down perhaps that process, but nothing to reverse it. And so, you know, they are demoralizing the Democratic Party if Joe Biden is not replaced. Like I said, there may be a huge surge of enthusiasm if he is replaced. There'll be a rally around the flag effect. There'll be relief that they're nominating someone younger, and then they can turn around to the Republicans and say, you're nominating a fossil. Now you should have to answer, you know, that, that, all that excitement could happen, but again, they have to get Biden out first. And if, if they don't, I mean,

if the New York times turns out to have, you know, a less influence over the democratic party, you know, then, then never Trump conservatives did over the Republican party. Well, that, that's something new i'll i'll have learned i don't i don't think that's the case but it would be an astonishing discovery you know uh eight years after you know many establishment conservatives tried to stop donald trump and found out they were powerless to do so if they can't eject joe biden if they're powerless to do that that is that will be shocking too. And that will be a huge blow to their egos.

I got to confess, I did not expect this week to be as exciting as it has been. Honestly, we're just talking to the staff this morning and say we were going to be off for Fourth of July. I don't think we're going to be off for Fourth of July. I get newsflash. I don't think any of us is going to be off for 4th of July. I don't think we're going to be off for 4th of July. I'm get newsflash. I don't think any of us is going to be off for 4th of July. I'll be doing the show, as you guys know, in my colonial wig, my colonial dress. Michael was there last year. This I'll leave you with this before I leave. I read the ads and then we'll come back and talk

about those polls. This is in the Financial Times. And I thought it kind of summed up the position many of these staffers you talked about who are so afraid are in. One Democratic operative described the situation as, quote, the hardest case of taking the keys away from dad ever. Sounds exactly right. Who's who other than Jill Biden is able to tell him it's time. And so far, she's clinging to his power. Stand by those polls must be discussed and they will be. And there's more news coming in. I'm Megan Kelly, host of the Megan Kelly show on Sirius XM. It's your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations with the most

interesting and important political, legal, and cultural figures today. You can catch the Megan Kelly show on triumph, a Sirius XM channel featuring lots of hosts. You may know, and cultural figures today. You can catch The Megyn Kelly Show on Triumph, a SiriusXM channel featuring lots of hosts you may know and probably love. Great people like Dr. Laura, I'm back, Nancy Grace, Dave Ramsey, and yours truly, Megyn Kelly. You can stream The Megyn Kelly Show on SiriusXM at home or anywhere you are.

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The president got in some trouble for not reaching out to governors, Democratic governors. No sooner had Jake Tapper interviewed somebody discussing that issue, then they got news the president was going to do it. And it's going to happen today. He's going to try to reassure the Dem governors that he's fine. He hasn't yet had any meaningful meeting with congressional leaders. As of Tuesday morning, hadn't spoken to Hakeem Jeffries, hadn't spoken to Chuck Schumer. Then in the wake of that news broken, he apparently called Hakeem Jeffries. His staff is freaking out. And in fact, the pub, I can't remember which publication put it, but they are freaking the F out was how it was

reported. They don't know what to say or what to do. And they're being criticized roundly for covering this up. Well, the chief of staff at the white house just had a conference call with, it was an all staff call at the White House. This is per Alex Thompson at Axios reporting that Jeff Zients began the all staff call as follows. July 4th is one of my favorite holidays. It's a key milestone in an election year. Biden didn't have a great night, but it was one night. And what we all know is he's a great president. He has three points to make to the staff. One, put your head down. Execution, execution, execution. Number two, at the same time, hold your head high. There's so much the president has accomplished for the

American people. As almost everybody knows, I'm obsessed with teams. We need to stay together as a team, have each other's back. In other words, don't leak. Don't point to me. Um, the president and this team has been through the highest of highs and the lowest of lows. This is a period of intense noise. People are looking for chatter, tune it out. And those are his points, heads down, heads up the importance of team. And he encourages anybody to email him with problems, et cetera, all of this and their comments to the press too. And to the donors, oh, it's a bunch of bedwetters. Oh, it was just one bad night. Calm down. Bring to mind that old favorite. Of course, you know, the clip, I'll just play it. One of the greatest movies of all time, Animal House. MBD quick aside, my brother was a kid when we all were when Animal House came out and

he needed my mom to take him to go see it because he was too young. So Linda Kelly took Pete Kelly to go see Animal House back in whatever year it was. And my mother laughed so hard and so unstoppably throughout this film. My brother got up and moved his seat. But no one's laughing right now at the White House. No, no one's laughing. I mean, they just got told, you know, get back to the grindstone and shut up. Like, don't email your friends in the media.

Don't email anyone except me. And we're just going to brazen this out. And, you know, someone, someone else, some higher authority, maybe the New York Times, maybe, you know, Barack Obama through a surrogate will, will call time on us or they won't, you know, it's just, what else can you do i mean they are they are on this right now a sinking ship so they do need all hands on deck and they do need to try as best as they can to plug every hole inside i just don't think it's going to work because again the media is in a frenzy right now and they're they're emptying their notebooks and they're finally getting all all the details out that they've been holding or that they didn't dare ask about or that they

didn't report and you know i think everyone is you know i think there are lots of in the media hive mind there is now this this sense of well the drip drip of reporting will eventually push biden to call it quits for the campaign and i think lots of reporters are now in in competitive mode of they want to file the story that does it um or they want to file the story of the leading democratic voice you know once the you know, these people in Congress, the representative from Maine, that's, you know, small beer. But once you get up to, you know, getting Gretchen Whitmer on record or Gavin Newsom or, you know, Jared Paulus or none of them is going to do it. Their their their whole their way to the White House is to remain loyal to Biden, to stand behind him and then to be reluctantly drafted into this race after the press kills him.

They eliminate themselves by coming out and saying he needs to go. It has to be other Dems not in contention. That's true. But I mean, Whitmer is not Scott, not particularly disguising her ambitions lately. She is fundraising. She is reporting, you know, there are some reports that she's told the Biden campaign, you are dead in my state at this point. Don't even bother. She's fundraising as if, you know,

donating to her is helping Biden in some way. So, you know, none them will will come out but you know they're if there's going to be a successful pressure campaign it can't just be the representative for maine and a few other you know this is just the beginning this is i know i agree with that and charles said something similar a minute ago but this this is the beginning. This is how it starts. You know, you get drip, drip, drip. And also the other, the other thing that we're seeing is, as I reported, possible donors rethinking where they're going to put their money. And also obviously staffers inside the white house turning on each other. They're turning on each other at the lower levels.

The lower folks are turning on the higher folks. That's what the report in Politico was about this morning that you referenced earlier, MBD, about how there's fury now reportedly by other staffers at Biden's tight circle for keeping them out to where they, you know, they had no idea. OK, sure. I have nothing to do with the Biden circle, inner or outer. And I knew you guys knew. So I, you know, they had no idea. Okay, sure. I have nothing to do with the Biden circle, inner or outer. And I knew you guys knew. So I, you know, spare me their protestations, but I'm sure it is true that just how bad it was, like what we saw at the debate has been kept a secret. This is actually, this was the lead this morning on morning Joe, where Joe Scarborough, after coming out after that Thursday night debate on Friday morning and calling for President Biden to give it up, saying, I don't think he can do it.

He was the number one cheerleader, has been absent all week. It's like a single vacation. His wife is sitting there. I don't know about you. I don't I don't go on week long vacations without my husband. That's not a thing for us. But he's gone for right now. She's been out there. She's a big Biden supporter. But nonetheless, this is how Morning Joe opened this morning in part. Watch. A lot of calls for the president to make calls and my sources are telling me he's gonna make them simmer. But here we go. So Eli, you're part of a reporting team for Politico that includes our buddy Jonathan Lemire out with a new piece titled,

We've All Enabled the Situation, Dems Turn on Biden's Inner Sanctum Post-Debate. They came up with this rationale for him to run anyway, that he's the only person who's ever beaten Donald Trump and thus he has to be the candidate again. And I think now the view across the party, at least among a lot of the people that we talk to, is that that seems to be a pretty self-serving and maybe delusional case for another four years. Jim VandeHei, your piece with Mike Allen for Axios this morning

for your behind-the-curtain column is entitled Democrats Rage at Biden Rises. Explain what you're hearing. Yeah, I would say we've talked to literally dozens of House members, most of whom aren't going to go on the record yet. The ones who are going to go on the record already have. They're furious, like they're just not buying it. And his piece went on to say, as a Democratic strategist in a battleground state put it, the number of people who have access to the president has gotten smaller and smaller and smaller. They've been digging deeper into the bunker for months now and said, the strategist,

the more you get into the bunker, the less you listen to anyone. Um, this is, this is part of the, this is what happens when you're losing. Everybody turns on everybody, Charles, like that's losing begets more losing begets anger and blame. Usually that happens after the November election. It's happening now because the presidency, the campaign itself is imploding. Yeah, this is what happens when you're losing, but it's also what happens when you're lazy and you have around you this carapace of support from the press that lets you get away with making what was described in that segment as self-serving arguments. before the debate was that Joe Biden is the only choice that Americans can make if they want to preserve their democracy, which doesn't really make sense on its own terms.

Now that argument has been extended. That argument is that Joe Biden is the only choice his party can make if they want to save democracy. We've moved the locus of saving democracy to the primary, such that Jill Biden is quoted as saying that he's the only person who can do the job. I think MBT mentioned that. That's ludicrous. But it is also the sort of case that you make to people when you're just not used to having to argue. I've seen so many Republican comms people on Twitter in the last couple of days saying, guys, you've been playing on easy mode for years.

Finally, you know what it's like to be us. And there is something to that. So I think one of the things you're seeing here is the people who have a real interest in the Democratic Party doing well, that is elected officials and aspiring elected interest in the Democratic Party doing well, that is elected officials and aspiring elected officials within the Democratic Party, are suddenly hearing the arguments that have been made on their behalf for years thrown at them. Instead of Republicans being told it, guys, you're the threat to democracy and Joe Biden is the savior. People who've been sheltered by that argument are now hearing it and they realize how completely ridiculous it sounds. And they're getting

really frustrated with him. So it's partly, yes, that this is what happens when you're losing and that people turn on one another. But it's also that when the table is flipped over and you see what's on the other side, it looks very different than when you're hiding under it. Oh, I've got to play this soundbite, Charles, from Keisha Lance Bottoms. OK, this talk about chutzpah. This person who's a former Atlanta mayor now is a senior campaign advisor to Joe Biden. And Keisha is very, very upset about the media coverage of Joe Biden and his debate performance and people suggesting he needs to drop out in the media. Listen to what she says. Top 14. Editorial boards are supposed to honor fair elections. And I don't think it's fair when an editorial board with 10 people sitting in a room are trying to influence an election, especially in a state like Georgia. She called it election interference for publications like The New York Times to say he needs to drop

out. He can't. It's election interference to negatively criticize the sitting president. I really struggle to remember her saying anything about what President Trump has been through with the media. No, it's been astonishing. And one of the, kind of the secondary story, right? The first story is Joe Biden, his unfitness for the presidency. What are Democrats going to do about it? But the secondary story is the media scandal that, you know, the media has been covering up for him and they've been covering up for him with tools and words and techniques that they developed to control the narrative during the COVID-19 pandemic. that the video showing Biden's, you know, evident age and infirmity were fakes and were misinformation or disinformation campaign.

Now, the New York Times, in I think a very costly way to their reputation, is citing those exact same moments as like evidence of Biden's evident decline. So they've switched from this story is right-wing disinformation. Maybe it's coming from abroad. Maybe it's some kind of election interference to say, nope, this is a fact and we have to deal with it. So this is the costliest media retreat I've ever seen. And in a way, it's the culmination of four years of lying with impunity. And it's all falling

in on Joe Biden right now, as everyone in the media class tries to save their own skin by finally filing a report that does him in. It is a really astonishing scramble. And, you know, I would feel bad for Joe Biden, you know, if he were still here. Oh, my Lord, you guys, this is just I mean, I'm telling you, I started the show by saying the dam is breaking. And in the last two minutes, both the Boston Globe and The Atlantic have called for President Biden to step out of this race. There's going to be many, many more. Here's the, here's the Atlantic in a piece authored by hold on a second. Uh, Adam sewer server, Biden must resign. If the president wants to protect American democracy, he should hand over his office to Kamala Harris. His opening line, Joe Biden must resign the presidency. So he's before he's

where you and I are MBD. And maybe, I don't know about Charles. We didn't ask Charles that question, but I know he's the number one disliker of Kamala Harris in the nation. So I can't imagine he's in favor. Let me ask you quickly, Charles, are you in favor of Joe Biden stepping down from the presidency? Well, I think he should step down from the presidency, even though it will put her in the White House. And as you say, I am the number one Kamala Harris hater in the nation. I've been since 2019. I just don't think he's going to, Megan, because I don't think that he will get that far. To voluntarily resign the office is just a bridge too far for that man.

I agree. He won't do it. He should. And in fact, I think it could be part of the deal that they make with him, that there are calls for the 25th Amendment to be invoked. Many are now calling you for a step down from the presidency. We'll let you leave with your head held high. We'll celebrate you at the Democratic Convention as a savior.

Your legacy will be intact. You won't be Joe Bader Ginsburg. And, you know, you can go out peacefully as opposed to ending your presidency early. That could be one of the bargaining chips brought to him. Serwer goes on to say he must resign the presidency. The last person to do so was Richard Nixon, who left in disgrace after abusing the powers of his office. Nixon had to resign because he led an assault on American democracy. Biden must resign for the opposite reason, to give American democracy its best chance of surviving. He doesn't sound like a Trump fan. Serwer focuses on politics and race for The Atlantic. He worked

in the past for Mother Jones, BuzzFeed, and then this from the Boston Globe editorial board. It's not a columnist. It's the editorial board saying current and former party leaders should be doing their best to persuade the president that the end of his long and grand political career is near. It's pretty remarkable to see this pouring in. I mean, I don't want to brush past this. This is a very big deal when you've got the New York Times editorial board saying it, the Atlanta Journal Constitution, now the Atlantic, now the Boston Globe, more and more MBD. I mean, soon it's going to be all of our major publications or 99 percent of them saying he must step down or at least give up his candidacy. Well, from the opposite end of things, I, in a weird way, agree with Adam Serwer, and I'm surprised to say this, but he is right that the logical consequence is calling for him to resign the presidency. Because, you know, what the New York Times did over the weekend, which is say, you know, editorialize that he's unfit for the presidency and should, you know, abandon his position as the candidate, but that they would still vote,

they would still endorse him anyway over Trump. I mean, effectively what they're saying is, I will vote for an unnamed conspiracy of people to run the executive branch of the federal government for four years, and they'll do so in joe biden's name you cannot argue that and then say you are defending democracy right democracy is we have public elections we elect public figures we judge them on what they do and the decisions they make and then we have elections afterward to decide whether to to keep or not. And so anyone who continues supporting Joe Biden when he is this evidently non-competent cannot claim to be defending democracy. That's truly important. And there's another aspect to this that's just that really struck me today, which was, I decided to listen to foreign coverage of the American debate from last

week. And I was listening to the Irish times podcast. Normally they're a megaphone for, you know, what the New York times says and what all the reporters on the, on their podcast said, this was difficult to watch. And why was it difficult to watch?

Because what you're looking at and we, we have to just say it for what it is. What you saw was a form of elder abuse. Okay. Joe Biden, the condition he is in naturally excites in a normal human person sympathy and the uh the the reaction that you want to care for this person you want to sit them in front of matlock reruns and give them vanilla pudding like that's what you want to do that is

what joe biden deserves at the end of his long life. Not to be puppeted around by Hunter Biden for Hunter Biden's ends or for Jill Biden to be on the cover of Vogue. Right? Like, Joe Biden deserves right now. Right now. He deserves care from people who take his condition seriously. And like, I just can't emphasize that enough. Other people can see it when they don't have as much at stake and that's the reaction they have.

And by the way, that is the thing that could kill any pretense of him staying on his report. If there are reporters who have access to foreign leaders who have seen joe biden at his worst and you know where it's not a hypothetical oh how do you feel about joe biden on a phone call with vladimir putin to discuss ukraine right now but if you find out that oh at the g7 last year he totally blanked out or he started referring to Helmut Kohl instead of, you know, the current chancellor in Germany. You know, those reports will immediately emphasize the gravity of the situation we're facing. And they're starting. First of all, that was so well said. I completely agree with all that. And having had elderly relatives suffer with some of these issues, I did some research to

figure out what are you supposed to do when you have someone in your family suffering from this? And, you know, there, there's a whole list of protocols. I'm sure he is getting angry like that, you know, and snappy behind closed doors. That actually is one of the symptoms of dementia. And they teach you when you have a relative who's suffering from it to not respond in kind, to understand that that that's the dementia talking. That's not the person, you know, And they teach you when you have a relative who's suffering from it to not respond in kind, to understand that that's the dementia talking. That's not the person you know and love talking. You certainly don't get mad in response. You try to handle it. When the person suffering from dementia keeps telling you the same story over and over, you don't say, you already told me that. It's just going to be upsetting to them. They don't realize that they've already told you that.

There are all sorts of ways of handling somebody suffering from this. And they're stripping this man of his dignity and making him stand there in front of us while it all plays out publicly. It's not OK to the solution is not to hide him from the American public. The solution is to protect him and his dignity and the country at the same time by admitting he can no longer do this particular job. He served the country well for Democrats in particular for a long, long time, but he's been of service to the country and it's time for him to leave in a respectable, dignified manner. Not like this. I do want to say what you said you wondered about, and I know you read it,

is already starting to happen. The New York Times piece, not the editorial board calling for him to step down, but the lengthy piece they dropped last night on his cognitive infirmity, went into what's happening with foreign leaders. And of course, it was ironic because they were not ironic, but I mean, it was just galling because they defended him at this G7 meeting in an earlier piece trying to defend these so-called cheap fakes. But I'll read you a bit from from what what they say happened when he went over to Europe. OK. Mr. Biden appeared to wander off from the group of leaders who were there to talk to paratroopers and the Italian prime minister, Georgia Maloney. She came up behind him and gently brought him back. A clip of the event that went viral had been edited to make it appear that Mr. Biden has just walked away. In fact, he was greeted

greeting a paratrooper. And now they say, but the image suggested he needed guidance from his host. Now, before, when they fact check this for us, saying how dishonest everybody was, they just called it a cheap fake. And they didn't add that yet. You know what it does suggest he needed? There's the Georgia prime minister, I mean, Italian prime minister, Georgia Maloney, trying to get him back. So now they're getting deeper into it now that he's twisting. But the image did suggest he needed guidance from his host. It goes on. Ms. Maloney and the other leaders were acutely sensitive to Mr. Biden's physical condition, discussing it privately amongst themselves. And they tried to avoid embarrassing him by slowing their own pace while walking with

the president. When they worried that he did not seem poised and cameras were around, they closed ranks around him physically to shield him while he collected himself, the official said. So it's already being noticed by international officials who have felt the need to cover up for our president. This is embarrassing, Charles. This is it's humiliating to him and to our country. Yeah, you know, Megan, it's interesting. I don't think I wrote this or said this on a podcast, but I certainly said this at National Review, maybe to Michael, certainly to Rich. That clip was interesting, I thought, when it happened, because as you know, I and others have thought that Joe Biden was senile for quite a long time. And

I thought it was interesting that it was Giorgio Maloney, the Italian prime minister, who went over to him. I'm married to an Italian-American from a big family. Italians in particular are family-based and live in multi-generational spaces. Americans don't in quite the same way. We have more nursing homes. The British are the same as the Americans. And other countries are somewhere in the middle. But the Italians, in particular, Greeks, they live in a way where young children are around even if you eat dinner at nine o'clock at night. And grandparents are there at all family events. Maybe they live in the house. And I just said this at the time. It's very interesting she went over because she's probably seen this before. She's probably more acutely aware of Joe Biden's condition and the signs of it than many other people.

And it's just very funny watching that. I mean, funny, ha ha. It's very interesting, curious, peculiar watching that clip that you just put up now, now that we've had confirmation of it. Why did the Italian go over there and do that? Well, because she's probably more tuned in, clued into this than most. Oh, I'll make a, I'll make a case for my fellow woman on that one too. We tend to be more empathetic and loving and caretakers just by nature. So I'm sure that's in her. Um, just, I would be remiss if I did not bring out some of the words

used by this bombshell of a Tom of a Times piece that I that we're talking about right now. It's entitled Biden's lapses are said to be increasingly common and worrisome. They claim I mean, I really I have trouble believing this, but they claim it's over the last few months that these lapses have grown more frequent, more pronounced, and after Thursday's debate, more worrisome. The headliner on the piece is Peter Baker, though there are others, citing interviews with current and former White House aides, political advisors, administration officials, foreign diplomats, domestic allies and financial donors who saw Mr. Biden in the last few weeks, most of whom I think all of them in this piece are anonymous, given the delicacy of the matter. And these are some of the things that the piece

reports in the weeks and months before the debate. these, as they say, several current and former officials and others who encountered him behind closed doors noticed that he increasingly appeared confused or listless or would lose the thread of conversations that the lapses seem to be growing more frequent, more pronounced, more worrisome, that they seemed more likely when he was in a large crowd or tired after a particularly bruising schedule. Then they give the Mika Brzezinski defense, which I said the other day was spoon fed to her directly from the White House. And now clearly it's been spoon fed to the Times. He jetted across the Atlantic Ocean twice for meetings with foreign leaders. Hello. He was

on Air Force One, which has a bed. But OK, he flew from Italy to California for a splashy fundraiser, maintaining a grueling pace that exhausted even much younger aides. Sure, Jan, he he was drained enough that his team cut his planned debate prep by two days so he could rest at Rehoboth Beach. But then he went to Camp David. I mean, he he was back in the States for 10 days before that debate. Let's not pretend that jet lag takes 10 months to recover from the preparations, which took place intensely over six days, never started before 11 a.m. He was given time for an afternoon nap each day, as I said in our intro. Then the White House countered while he was working before 11 and exercised. They would not, the White House, make a doctor available to the times for an interview. Very telling the white

house has declined to make his doctor, Dr. O'Connor available for questions. And the times ads did not respond to detailed health questions from the New York times earlier this year, Dr. O'Connor, um, on Tuesday, let's say it says, responding to questions from the Times, Mr. Bates, the White House spokesman, said on Tuesday that the doctor had found no reason to reevaluate Mr. Biden for Parkinson's since the debate and said he had showed no signs of Parkinson's. This is one of the theories about what he might have.

By the way, here was Karine Jean-Pierre on the question of whether he has Alzheimer's yesterday. So 29. I'm going to ask something delicate and you may not like it. The president may not like to hear it. He's watching. But I think the American people need to get a yes or no answer on this. Does President Biden at 81 years old have Alzheimer's, any form of dementia or degenerative illness that caused these sorts of lapses? And it's a yes or no question. And if you don't know, why don't you as one of his senior staff members know that? I have an answer for you.

Are you ready for this? It's a no. And I hope you're asking the other guy the same exact question. So I have to admit, I believe she's lying. I just don't believe that at all. I don't know what the condition is. But I mean, you tell me, Charles, something's wrong with the president. I'm not a doctor and I can't diagnose it. You know what I find the most annoying thing about that? It's actually not the no, it's the ask the other guy. This has been a refrain of Democrats and many of their enablers in the press since this happened. What about Trump?

I write about Trump a lot. I'm pretty open about my views on Trump. I share them with you, Megan, every time I come on the show. Do you know why I'm not talking about Trump now? Because nothing has changed with Trump. Trump is the same person he was a week ago, a year ago, four years ago. That is the same Donald Trump. The story's about Joe Biden.

This is such a crazy deflection. So not only did she refuse to answer the question and then act as if it was offensive or it shouldn't have been asked, then she said, what about, what about, what about? Come on. This is, this is to Michael's point, feeble-looking guy on the street and say, hey, you, you got dementia? The president of the United States is the topic. Has she read, has Karine Jean-Pierre read Article 2 of the Constitution? Does she know what the first line of it is? It says all powers are vested in the president of the United States. Not some, not to a committee, all powers. And those powers are vested in the president of the United States. Not some, not to a committee, all powers. And those powers are pretty considerable. They are too considerable. I think we really need to

scale back the executive branch. But we haven't. We've built it up and built it up and built it up. Foreign policy is almost absolute. Domestic politics, it is considerable. And she has that as her answer. No, stop asking the question. Ask about the other guy. Donald Trump's not the problem. There are many problems with Donald Trump. It's a separate topic. I'm happy to talk about it.

But Donald Trump, although he is old, and I wouldn't choose someone that old to be president, although he is old, looked totally cogent at that debate. It's not just about age. It's about cogency. He was alive, alert. He was funny. He lied. Of course, he lied. He's a politician. But he also knew what he was saying. And he made jokes and observations at Joe Biden's expense. Joe Biden wasn't. That's why we're talking about him. And if they think that they're going to get away with that over the next three

or four months, then they have another thing coming? Let me tell you something. I'll bring up Phil Houston again. This is not some soothsayer, as I gave you his credentials. This guy is a human lie detector and has been relied upon as such by virtually every government agency we have that investigates crime. And what he says is for a truth teller, the truth is your ally. You run to it. You love talking about it. You don't do a quick no and move on and deflect. If it were true, the answer would have sounded as follows. No, he doesn't.

And Dr. O'Connor ran these tests 10 months ago for all of them. No medication for such conditions has been prescribed. He passed the cognitive test, the physical test, the brain scans. We've, of course, because he's the sitting president, done it all. And we'll release those results to you, or we'll at least give you Dr. Conner's report. No. And I hope you're going to ask the other guy is a lie. It's a lie. Absolutely. That's just I mean, that's just obvious, MBD. But we're we're not going to get more from the White House on that. There's is very clear. And I we have to spend one minute on the fact that Hunter. Is now going to the White House meetings,

Hunter Biden, you mentioned in passing Hunter Biden's there now, Hunter Biden, convicted felon. This is what the Democrats like to do. Convicted felon, Hunter Biden, drug addled Hunter Biden, though he's said to be clean at the moment, is going with the president to all of his meetings right now, apparently as like a backup Biden. And this is being defended by people like Mika Brzezinski is like no big deal, but it is a big deal. And there's a real question about whether this is appropriate and why he's there. They're saying the White House is saying, oh, it's just because it's a holiday week. What does that mean? What is that? It's like bring your kid to is it bring your son to work day because it's almost July 4th.

But why is Hunter Biden? Here it is. Take a listen. Biden has been in some meetings with senior advisors. Why is the president's son involved? So a couple of things I do. I saw that reporting as I was coming out. So a couple of things there. Look, the president, as you know, is very close to his family. This is a holiday week, 4th of July. He spent time with his family, as you all, is very close to his family. This is a holiday week, Fourth of July. He spent time with his family, as you all know, and reported at Camp David. Hunter came back with him and walked with him into that meeting, that speech prep. And he ended up spending time with his dad and his family that night.

That is basically what happened. It is a week where there's going to be more family members who are going to come to the White House. I'm sure you'll see some of them on 4th of July. Many more are expected to be here. The question, though, would be, is he participating in meetings with senior advisors? What I can say is that he came back with his dad from Camp David. He walked him into the speech prep and he was in the room that I can tell you he was in the room.

I don't know about you, MBD, but if we're looking for shadow presidents, Hunter Biden's not on my list. One thing Hunter has over his father is that he's a little bit more liberal about gun ownership than most Democrats. And drugs. Libertarians may like them i i will say this um you know um the press has moved on you know the hunter biden story as this kind of saga was in 2019 it was you know hunter biden is a troubled person but you know he has none of his business dealings have anything to do with the president you know know, the potential president of the United States, Joe Biden. There's no real connection here at all. The only the only connection is that Joe Joe Biden loves his son so much.

And now it's well, Hunter Biden, of course, is just, you know, waltzing into meetings with cabinet officials or other high level senior staff. Well, why? I mean, the obvious question is why? Is it because the circle has tightened so much? The Biden family doesn't feel that they can trust the White House staff to be on their, on Joe Biden's side in this anymore because of the leaks that have been happening. I mean, over the weekend, right? I mean, the White House itself was putting out stories that looked like defenses, but were really knives in the back, right? They put out a story.

Oh, well, Joe Biden is, you know, reliably engaged between 10 a.m. and 4 p.m. And it's like, OK, on the surface, that sounds like a defense. But actually, that's a knife in his back. So someone in the white house said that to alex thompson of axios and that hurt the president and then they put out more stories like that that's almost certainly why hunter biden is there is because he wants his his father to remain president uh and to have another be elected to another term he probably wants a pardon he may want future pardons i have no idea um he may want you know business opportunities again and he feels that no one else is reliable to protect his father um so he's showing up and

that itself is a scandal and the reporting on it again is a reflection of the media's pylon, uh, to get rid of Joe Biden, right? It does not make Joe Biden look good that he is relying on his son. All right, listen, let's get to these polls because, you know, the real question is, as we pointed out in, as, as even the white house reportedly said, if he starts to, if the polls start to go down, even the president will see the truth. Um, he understands that, you know, if they start hemorrhaging polling, both at the white house level, well, at the white house level, it's going to trickle down and they could lose the house. They could lose the Senate

and the white house to president Trump, which is literally their worst nightmare. Well, a reporter over at Puck News got a hold of some internal Democratic polls. Peter Hamby did. It's a confidential polling memo put together by Democratic data firm Open Labs. Their memos are very trusted in Democratic circles and typically passed around to a small group of clients and strategists. So reports hand be. The memo circulating among anxious Democrats is confirming, quote, some of their worst fears. Biden's diminished standing is now putting previously non-competitive states like New Hampshire, Virginia and New Mexico in play for Donald Trump. The electoral map based on open labs reporting would land as follows. Biden with 205 electoral votes, Trump, 333, 333. That would be a landslide, um, showing that Biden has lost at least two points in every single battleground state. Um, new CBS polling puts it at four points that Biden has lost

to Trump in the wake of this debate, four points in every single battleground state. Pennsylvania and Michigan, Biden is now pulling behind, this is according to this poll. Pennsylvania, Michigan, Biden behind by seven points. He's losing Georgia by 10, losing Nevada by nine. He's behind Trump in Virginia, not by much, 0.6%, but behind Trump in Virginia. He's behind Trump in New Mexico, not by much, but behind him in this reliably blue state by 0.5. In New Hampshire, a state that Joe Biden won in 2020 by seven and in which he had had a 10 point lead just a few months ago, just in December, Biden's now down by two. New Hampshire, a 12 point swing, according to a St. Anselm College poll, actually, he's down there. 12 points now. Now Trump leading in New Hampshire, in New Mexico, which Biden won by 11 points.

Joe Biden's now up only two points over Trump. Just in June before the debate, he was up seven points. As for the possible replacements on the Democratic ticket, Kamala Harris, Gretchen Whitmer, Gavin Newsom, Pete Buttigieg, all of them pulled ahead of Joe Biden in every single battleground state. Governor Whitmer of Michigan blows away Trump in her home state. Back in September, Open Labs ran a similar survey and found that all of those Democrats were in the same position as Biden. Now they're ahead of him. This this is what's going to do it. This is it. This is the thing.

The internal polling that says he can't do it. He's hemorrhaging an MBD. He's going to take others down with him. Yeah, I mean, all those. all those poll numbers, right? If you have to start rededicating resources out of Nevada and into New Mexico, I mean, you are robbing other Democrats down the ballot of resources. They need to compete. They need to get their name recognition out there. They're a new new candidate for Congress in Virginia. They need money get their name recognition out there. They're a new candidate for Congress in Virginia. They need money from the party in the state.

And if that state party is spending all of its efforts or donors are spending more efforts propping up Joe Biden, trying to make you forget what you saw, trying to make you forget what you think, trying to make you forget what you fear at night about Joe Biden's condition, that can be a rolling disaster for the whole party. Now, listen, the whole party doesn't mean, you know, Joe Biden's condition is not transferable, right, to other candidates, obviously, right? Like, so this isn't, you know, the scandal isn't necessarily going to implicate other Democrats who are just running their race in New Mexico, Nevada or Michigan. But again, it can take away resources from them. And they are desperate for them because this is, you know, a 50-50 country.

This is a hotly divided election. And if you demoralize one party, the other party will turn out and beat it. And that's what they're afraid is happening now. And right now, Donald Trump is playing this like, you know, like a Christian with three aces. I mean, he is not, he can't lose. He's just sitting there quietly and collecting everything that Democrats are throwing into the pot at him. He doesn't have to do anything. And in fact, if he does interrupt, it would probably weaken the effect. You know, he handled it just right at the debate, calling attention to it maybe twice gently.

But he didn't do anything to make himself look cruel and sensitive. Trump's doing a remarkable job of holding his fire and just letting this be a scandal that of its own making, not involving him. We're almost done here, but I want to give you this. Charles just posted New York Times. Trump widens lead after Biden's debate debacle. New York Times Sienna poll finding Mr. Trump now leads Mr. Biden. This is likely voters. So we do pay attention 49% to 43, a six percentage point lead nationally. Hillary Clinton had a 5.9 percentage point lead over Trump at this point in the race in 2016. So things could still happen, but it's a swing. It's a three point swing toward Trump from just a week earlier. And it is the

largest lead Trump has recorded in a time Sienna poll since 2015. He leads by even more when you expand it to registered voters, 49 to 41. And they pin it to doubts about Mr. Biden's age and acuity being widespread and now growing. I'll give you the final word. Well, it shows that the debate really hurt Joe Biden to state the obvious. I think that Trump was winning the election anyway. I'm less sure that was going to hold. I actually will shock you. So I think there is a fairly high chance, Megan, this all ends with the Democrats winning the White House, but it's not going to be Joe Biden. Certainly if they replace him. Yeah, exactly. If they replace him, I mean, Republicans,

I think should be rooting for Joe Biden to stick it out, but I don't think he can. No question they should. But if the polls that you just read, both the national one in Siena and that leaked internal Democratic document are correct, then in a sense, it's quite bad for Donald Trump because they're going to replace it. I mean, if there is any indication that what you've just read out is true, they're going to replace it. Then I will jump on that train wholeheartedly

and say, if that is the case in a week, he has to go because he will lose and lose badly. And Michael explained the resources issue. I just think after that, Republicans are a little overconfident about this. It doesn't translate to other candidates, and it could give the Democrats a shot in the arm. No, that's exactly right. And so I guess I'll do exit polling, Rich Lowry style. He brings on the editors and I won't ask his actual question, percentage chances of Joe Biden being the nominee. But what do you think will happen? MBD, this time in 30 days, will Joe Biden still be the Democratic nominee?

No, he will not. The question is whether it's where the Harris gets the coronation or whether they decide to have, as, as reclined speculated in New York times, a kind of dramatic convention fight that could be a spectacle and could in fact, energize the party by showing it has life and is willing to select someone that is more popular. Yeah. I think they would, I think they would come out of that

hugely relieved remember more than 80 percent of democrats think joe biden is too old the the feeling the the exhale feeling if they get a gen x or onto the ticket is going to be massive and it's enormous and the media will do its part. They can rely on the media to do it. They'll be so excited. They'll be so excited. Yes, to do what he normally does. All right, last comment from you, Charles.

What do you think? Well, you said don't do percentages, but I have to because I'm just completely torn on it. I'm 50-50 on the question of whether he sticks it out. I think that some of this is happening, not all of it, that the consequences of that debate are real. But the pressure that we're discussing is still a little bit online. It's still a little bit the preserve of people who talk about politics all day,

as we do. It hasn't bled out yet. And I'm still open-minded as to whether Biden can make it go away. So I'm 50-50. Guys, thank you both so much. What a day. Look forward to listening and reading more over at National Review. All the best.

Thanks to all of you as well. We may indeed be live tomorrow. Tune in to find out. Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.