The Megyn Kelly Show - Israel Prepares, Biden's Aid for Gaza, and "Insurrection" in DC, with Bethany Mandel, Karol Markowicz, and Victor Davis Hanson | Ep. 651

Episode Date: October 19, 2023

Megyn Kelly is joined by Bethany Mandel and Karol Markowicz, authors of "Stolen Youth," to talk about how American Jews are doing after the horrific events of October 7 and anti-Semitism on display since, knowing who your real allies are in this new environment, heartbreaking stories of Israeli men and women preparing for war, the "all hands on deck" situation in the country, realities of the ongoing hostage crisis, teh Biden administration providing aid for Palestinians in Gaza in this moment, he "insurrection" in D.C. yesterday involving anti-Israel protesters storming a House building, Rep. Rashida Tlaib basically leading it, the lack of media coverage when compared to January 6, the reality of the Trump administration's help for Israel, and more. Then Victor Davis Hanson, author of "The Dying Citizen," joins to talk about what happens next in the war between Israel and Hamas, whether Iran will get involved, the state of the Middle East right now, how an debate answer by former President Obama in 2007 may have massively influenced America's foreign policy, how the Obama administration enabled Iran to help Hamas, why the Biden administration is just Obama's third term, contrasting how America treats Israel with how America treats Ukraine when it comes to calls for "proportionate response," the true scope of Hamas' barbarism, campus anti-Semitism, and more.Mandel: https://t.co/IFZo1usmIHMarkowicz: https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1119-the-karol-markowicz-show-124699042/Hanson: https://victorhanson.com Follow The Megyn Kelly Show on all social platforms: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/MegynKellyTwitter: http://Twitter.com/MegynKellyShowInstagram: http://Instagram.com/MegynKellyShowFacebook: http://Facebook.com/MegynKellyShow Find out more information at: https://www.devilmaycaremedia.com/megynkellyshow

Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at noon east. Hey, everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show. Hours from now, President Biden will deliver a very rare for him Oval Office address on foreign policy, specifically focusing on recent events in the Middle East and in Ukraine. This comes just a day after he announced a deal with the Israelis and the Egyptians to allow some humanitarian aid to go into the Gaza Strip by way of Egypt. The president saying it will be distributed by the United Nations and adding this. Hamas confiscates it or doesn't let it get through, just confiscates it, then it's going to end

because we're not going to send any humanitarian aid to Hamas if they're going to come and confiscate it. That's the commitment that I've made. Also, it's going to go down on their permanent record. You will see to that. The news infuriating some who felt this issue of aid was a key bargaining chip that we should be using to bring the hostages home. It wasn't done. A group representing hostage families saying in part, quote, we remind you that children, babies, women, soldier, men,

and the elderly are being held underground like animals without any human conditions. And the government of Israel is treating the murderers to baklava and medicine. Understandably, they are upset. Meantime, there's a new interview circulating of Israeli first responders. A warning first, what you are going to hear is disturbing in this clip. The man speaking is with an organization called Zaka, Z-A-K-A. It is the Hebrew acronym for disaster victim identification. He has worked for the organization for 33 years. This is a group that's trusted even by some of Israel's detractors when it comes to information. So he's worked there for three decades and has been all over the world responding to terror attacks. At a press conference,

he described how he found the bodies of one family. We went in. The first house we saw So, it was a couple, father and mother, sitting there on the knees on the floor. They were on the knees. Now they were head down, hands tied to the back. On the other side of the dining room was a seven-year-old boy and a girl, I would say about six years old, sitting just against the parents, hands tied to the back, same position. The bodies were tortured. While now, start to use your imagination. Who was tortured before? Who saw if this was a purpose, if this was the children looking at the parents being tortured, the parents seen, and when I say tortured, one eye, fingers being, fingers being.

All this happened and by the end responders have had to go through. You can see even that man's trauma in having come across the crime scene. Joining me now, Bethany Mandel and Carol Markowitz, co-authors of the book Stolen Youth. Carol's also a New York Post columnist. Bethany and Carol, so good to have you here. I hope you're doing okay. I got to say, I've just been checking in with my Jewish friends lately, and I am taken aback at how many of them say thanks to our show and to other shows and other people speaking out about this in a fair way, because because it's not uniform, because the split has been almost immediate to blame Israel.

You know, this is just like our priors, you know, like whatever, like some of the left. Well, I guess we're in favor of the brown skinned people and not the white supremacist colonializers. That's kind of our typical. And I just I just wanted to say that I I hope you're OK, because I realize this has been a time in which Jewish people here in America are reeling, seeing these anti-Semites reveal themselves from corner to corner here in the country. Absolutely. It's been an extremely tough time. I think Jews across the world are reeling, but I really do think that people like you have been such a bright spot. I'm not just saying that because I love you and I'm on your show, but you really have made an extremely difficult time better where, you know, we feel like the world's gone

crazy. Like, did they see what happened on October 7? Did they forget already what the images that they were shown Hamas live streamed it, there was no room for did this happen? Did this not happen? It happened. And to have people like you speaking out, it really has been, you know, a point of optimism for us where it shows that there are people who are saying there are people who are good and there are people who will defend us from the most horrific crimes possible. Thank you. I'm pleased in no way fishing for a compliment. I just wanted to say I've been taken aback at how many people you're amazing. Thank you. Thank you. But to me, it's like I'm

sad to see so many of my Jewish friends ready me saying thank you. Like if my voice should be so lost in a ubiquitous chorus of condemnation that it shouldn't stick out in any way, shape or form. But that's not the reality, Bethany. Yeah. I mean, it's not just that you're speaking out. I mean, I think it's easy to say I stand against these atrocities. I mean, I personally had avoided listening to that news conference because it's really painful. But I think that the difference between you and a lot of people is it's easy to say, you know, this was terrible, whatever. But what I've watched you doing with admiration and gratitude is that you're going toe to toe with people who are at best silent and at worst excusing it and trying to, you know, what about and second guess. And honestly, it's Holocaust denial. What we saw on October 7th was a Holocaust.

And we're watching people in real time question what they're seeing and what was live streamed. And so, you know, wonderful. I'm glad so many people have spoken out against what happened. But I think that it takes an exceptional bravery and exceptional chutzpah to stand up and say to people who are denying and who are silent, I see you. I see what you're doing. And it's disgusting. And not enough people are doing it. And, you know, speaking on behalf of the Jewish people, thank you for doing it. Oh, I mean, Bethany, hasn't it been so revealing when you see like, to me, it's been shocking because it's almost like people had a mask up people I liked people I respected. And now the mask is off. You know, it's like they couldn't care less. There are some who are trying to downplay this. There's some on the left who are entirely it's great. We love it. We're cheering it. I didn't know any of those people personally, but there are some who weren't bizarre people who I already wasn't associated with, who are quick to say like, eh, you know, it's somebody else's problem or their first instinct.

It sounds very Neville Chamberlain. You know what I mean? Like, oh, you know, let's just make sure that we're okay. It's kind of Israel's, like, I understand we have foreign interests, foreign policy interests of our own. Nobody here, including you two, I'm sure wants to see America rush right in. Let's have war with Iran. Let's do this thing. That's, that's straw manning, right? Like if you're going there, you're misrepresenting what the real issue is right now. Yeah. I mean, we saw Hamas go into all of these homes to kill Jews. That was their objective. And newsflash for everyone here in America, there are Jews here too. And when you say that Israel doesn't have the right to defend itself against a massacre, you're saying that the American Jewish

community also does not have that right. That it is okay with you if Hamas walks into a synagogue, which has happened already. We've already seen terror attacks in American kosher supermarkets and synagogues and schools. And you're telling them they have a free ticket to do that. When I was walking to synagogue last weekend with my children, I gave them an active shooter conversation. I said, if you hear shooting and like, do I want to have that conversation with my four-year-old? No. I mean, really I had it for my 10-year-old and my six-year-old, but this is not, and people heard me on the walk because other people are walking to synagogue. And I said, I feel kind of melodramatic doing this, but also it's a necessary conversation at this point. And I said, I feel kind of melodramatic doing this, but also it's a necessary conversation at this point. And so I'm telling my kids, like, if you hear a gun and you don't see a gun run,

if you see the gun hide, because if this gut, if you can see the gun, the gun can see you. And it's, it's not a conversation I want to have with my children, but we go to kosher supermarkets. We go to kosher restaurants, we go to synagogue, and this is now a reality. Yeah. I mean, I keep thinking about my friend. I mentioned him on the show two weeks ago. Elliot Steelman, whose wife Jocelyn, my friend, died two weeks before October 7th. And it was out of the blue. We were all stunned. She was only 46 years old and we went to their synagogue on the Upper West Side to pay our respects.

And, you know, in the course of a week or two, this family has lost their mother, their wife, and then this, right? It's a Jewish family. It's just one example, but it's a Jewish family

living on the Upper West Side that now has to go to synagogue. This poor Elliot's got two young boys. He's got to take them to the Upper West Side synagogue that they go to, Rodef Shalom, and they have to worry about this too. Yeah. And now they have to worry about this. Yeah. Rodef always had security. I went there, I've gone there for 20 years. I have family that went to Rodef. All major synagogues have always had security, but the difference in the last week is really significant because we I mean, I don't really want to get into like an immigration conversation, but our border is not so great and not so secure.

And it's not just people coming in from the southern border through that entry point. And, you know, I think that Americans who think that this is Israel's problem are naive. Right. I mean, what are those people going to do, Carol? God forbid. Yeah, I was just gonna say, what are those people going to do? God forbid. You know, we've seen a long history, those of us who aren't 20 in America of domestic terror attacks. You know, ISIS coming up. we've seen them in place to place. And what's to say that, you know, some of these Hamas militants or their sympathizers aren't going to start this?

This is a real concern, given the amount of Jew hatred we're seeing on open display across the world and in our own country. Go ahead. Yeah, so what I was going to say was, you know, the people who are thinking that, oh, anybody's, you know,

cheering on war with Iran or wanting America to get involved. My personal policy preference is America does not get involved. I think in a lot of ways, America will hold back Israel from what it needs to do. I think we're sort of seeing that right now with the Biden visit. But beyond that, my policy concerns are in America and they are things like the border, and they are things like our lax immigration policies. And they are things like we're not allowed to question any of that you're racist, if you say that our border might lead us to having terrorist attacks, but that's exactly what the concern should be. I just the idea that we're pushing any other kind of policy other than really a very pro-America,

American security policy is ridiculous. And that's really what I wanted to add to that. I mean, Joe Biden has sent two aircraft carriers there to the Mediterranean as a threat to Iran and Hezbollah. It's basically the military incarnation of don't what he said on camera the other day. Don't don't think about it. And actually, it's a really interesting I mean, it's it's awful, but it's an interesting question about whether that signal and warning, which is effectively deterrence, is going to hold. Is it going to work? You know, where where are people afraid of us? Do they respect us still? I mean, we still are the United States of America. We still have the biggest and best military in the world.

Does Iran believe that this president would actually unleash it if they got involved? You know, the reports now that Hezbollah is just waiting to see whether Israel does the ground invasion before it does get involved and it ignores the don't. All those things we're going to have to watch in coming days. Go ahead, Bethany. Yeah, we just saw 30 rockets come in from Lebanon. I don't think they're waiting for this potential ground invasion. It seems like in the last hour, Lebanon has decided to take a really aggressive stance. And I have people on the ground in Lebanon or on the ground on the border with Lebanon. I have friends who are serving the IDF and they know that I work in media and I'm getting messages

from them like stuff's getting real right over here. Like I'm getting those messages in the last half hour. That's not good. Nobody wants another front to open up. And meanwhile, can we just, cause you mentioned you have friends. One of my friends was telling me yesterday, a Jewish man who lives here, who's got relatives in Israel. You got to think about who's getting called up, right? Like who's getting called up? Like most of these people, yes, you have to serve in the Israeli military for two years, right? If you're in Israel, but you know, then you go on and you kind of live your life, you know, you kind of become a civilian. Yes, you continue training and so on, but these aren't necessarily warriors, you know, and some are, but a lot aren't. And some of these kids

who are in, who are doing their service now are what, 19. And I realized this is the average age of soldier who died in world war II, stormed the beaches at Normandy. I would submit for the record, those guys were a lot more mature than today's 19-year-olds are. We've been infantilizing a whole generation. But Carol, you do have to think about the humanity of those who are, I realize we're like 1,300,000 Israeli, you know, defense forces are amassing now. I feel for them because these are not necessarily the most grizzled soldier, Navy SEALs, you know, some of them are, but a lot of them aren't. And just the perspective I think of Israelis is Israelis

love life. They want to live their lives. They do not want to be in constant war. They do not want to destroy anybody. I think like, you know, the idea that that is being spread on social media right now that Israeli response should be proportionate and whatever. They're saying that because Israel obviously could level Gaza tomorrow and call it a day, but they would never do that. They love life. And the idea that these, you know, people in their late teens who we would consider children when they're when they're screaming pro Hamas comments on American campuses are going to go off to war. Of course, that's so difficult for Israelis to wrap their minds around. They do have a good military, but they were always hoping

not to have to use it. And yeah, you're right. The people that are being called up, but so many people are volunteering because they know that this is a life and death situation for them individually, but also for Israel as a whole. Israel cannot continue to allow this to go on. They cannot continue to allow Hamas to exist. They took 200 people from Israel as the terrorists took them to Gaza. And very little is being said about that throughout the world. Israel notices that they can't allow this to continue. They can't allow these people to continue to operate right next to them. It just, it's something that's absolutely necessary at this point for them to have to handle.

Now, these families in Israel, many of whom have lost someone in this attack on 10-7, or who know a family that's lost somebody, I mean, it's very close, small country. Now, now they have their sons going off or their daughters going off like in at very real risk of peril and loss of life in what is going to look more like Fallujah if they start this ground invasion. You know, I mean, it's going to be hand to hand urban warfare that was tough even for our best and most grizzled soldiers, Bethany. Yeah. I mean, it's not just their sons and daughters. It's their husbands. I mean, I'm just going to give you one example. My friend Gabe is my age. I'm 37 years old. He has three children and his wife is a photographer and he works in

marketing. He's on the front lines right now. And it's really scary. I was just getting voice memos for him. So when you think about the Israeli, you know, nation and, and the economy, everything has ground to a halt because every single man is pretty much in a uniform right now. And so the offices are empty. The restaurants aren't doing delivery. Like it is all hands on deck right now in Israel. And the people, I mean, no, no one wants to be doing this. No one wants to take off. And, you know, my, my friends are doing FaceTime calls with their husbands. And, you know, there, there was a beautiful one of, of a soldier who was naming his baby at his bris on, on FaceTime because he couldn't be at his son's bris. There are, I mean, there are weddings happening before people are deployed. I mean, the, the Israeli public do not want to

be doing this, but they need to, they need to. They understand that they need to because Hamas is an existential threat to everyone's safety. And they're holding 200 200 people, women and children, who are in the hands of Hamas. And listen back to that first five minutes of your show and remember what they did to people before they killed them. Those demons have 200 people for the last 13 days. What is happening to them? I don't even want to imagine. And that is why this is a crisis and why everyone has responded because it is a country the size of New Jersey. Everyone knows someone who is dead or missing and they understand it could be them. It could be their children and they have to get them back right now. I mean, just the horrors of murdering women and then posting the murders on the Facebook pages

and then sending cutting women open and stabbing their fetuses. Like it's. It's beyond horrific. It's it's it's the worst stuff. You couldn't even conjure it up. It's Nazi level cruelty, torture and inhumanity. A 100 percent. I mean, some of the stuff the Nazis didn't even think of. So it's, I don't understand these people even as human. I really don't. You could say I'm trying to dehumanize them. I would say they did it to themselves. So what do we make then, Carol, of this 100 million? Because we're going to give it, I mean, truly, as I said in the intro, oh, okay, so he's got a finger wagging. You better not let Hamas have any of this hundred million. This is for aid for the innocent Palestinians who are there. And there

are some innocents. But, you know, you better make sure that Hamas doesn't. If Hamas gets it, you're in a lot of trouble. I can see why the families of the hostages are saying, what about them? Why weren't they even discussed? You know, maybe something was happening behind the scenes. Maybe, maybe something was happening behind the scenes. Maybe, maybe it was. I find it very hard to trust the Joe Biden administration. He goes to Israel and he jokes that the Palestinians need to learn how to shoot straight. And that hundred million for Palestinians is absolutely going to be stolen by Hamas. Hamas has posted videos of them removing water pipes and turning it into rocket launchers. It's not us or any Western or anybody saying this.

It's themselves posting this online and showing their work. And yet we're giving them $100 million to just do more of this. I really feel like I'm on glue with this. It's such a crazy thing for American Israel to do. And I don't believe that President Biden even once mentioned the hostages. And there's, I think, 17 Americans being held of that 200 hasn't said a word about them while he was in Israel. I don't know what his speech tonight is going to be, but I have just very low expectations for this administration and they don't even clear that expectation generally. Yeah, I think he made a passing reference. And then later when he was asked, you know, what's going to happen with the hostages? He said, you know, we're I'm hopeful that we can get them back. So it's possible we have something. There was speculation that and I think a Hamas leader had suggested that they were going to release all the civilian hostages just just as

long as Israel stopped bombing. So Israel needs to stop in its retaliation. You know, it's it's exacting of justice and security of its own, securing of its own safety. And then it can have back just the hostages. That'll be the deal, which Israel is never going to agree to. And then there was some speculation that perhaps Joe Biden had struck a deal or Blinken had struck a deal for the release, at least of the Americans. And he was going to go over there and meet with the Arabs and say, see, look, I've gotten the Americans back because I do think Hamas knows if you kill the Americans,

you start putting out those little videos that you promised of murdering Americans on TV. It's a different ballgame. It's I hope so. I don't know. I really do hope so. And the thing is, look, I'm a conservative. I didn't vote for Joe Biden, but of course I'm rooting for him. Of course I'm rooting for him to do the right thing and say the right words and have action that brings home these Americans being held hostage. But I just don't see that. I feel like, again, if I'm wrong, I'll be so happy to be wrong. I would love to see this administration step up and show some strength and really get those Americans out of there and do the right thing. But I just, I see chaos and

I don't see them, you know, putting their acts together at all. I, I would say Bethany is that the IDF is probably better positioned to get those hostages out of there than anybody, even our guys, because they're just much more familiar with this kind of operation there. Yeah. I mean, I've, I've, I would push back a little bit on the, I can't believe I'm saying this on your show. I will push back a little bit on the negativity about Joe Biden. I like those words flowed, but I've spoken to family. I don't, I never thought this would happen, but here we are. I've spoken to families who have met with Biden and met with Blinken, and they're actually happy with how they're being messaged to, and they're happy with the stance that the Biden administration is taking. And I think that there's things happening behind the scenes that are making them feel that way.

And one family told me, I think he's a total POS, and I didn't vote for him. But I think that he's taking this seriously enough. I mean, that conversation that he had on air force one, I think that we can all just be honest that he's a few fries short of a happy meal. He talks and it doesn't always make sense because he's very elderly. Um, I, I don't think that I'm trying to be as nice as I can here. Um, that got even fine and laughing over her seat, but the, the few fries short of a happy meal situation is what it is. We all are aware it is what it is, but I don't think that that comment is representative of what's happening

behind the scenes with people who are totally with it. And I am hopeful that the Biden administration is being as as good behind the scenes as I'm hearing from families, some of whom are not fans. I'm hoping the same. I'll just play the comment for those who haven't heard it. This is Biden on Air Force One on his flight back home where he went to the back of the plane and started chatting with reporters to the extreme alarm of Korean Jean-Pierre. Here's the comment about not shooting straight, SOT7. I'm not suggesting that Hamas deliberately did it either. It's that old thing, got to know how to shoot straight. And it's not the first time Hamas has launched something that didn't function very well. Okay, so that was the comment. But let me play the comment about getting the hostages out, which I did find interesting

because that was the point at which KJP really was like, it's a wrap. And it led me to wonder whether he had revealed something he shouldn't have. It's at nine. What about getting people out? We're going to get people out and I'm not going to run into detail with you. We're going to get people out, but I can't give you the details now. So that, I don't know, Carol, that sounded to me like he might know something. It was it was more definitive than I would have expected. I hope so. Again, I like nobody's rooting for Joe Biden more than I am right now.

But I just again, I feel like I wish I had more faith in this administration. Somebody posted, you know, that about the Iranian hostages in the late 70s, and the way that it was on TV 24 seven all the time, and the administration was just talking about it all the time. And even though the Carter administration ultimately, you know, failed at getting them out, but it was it was a big deal. And this just seems like not as big a deal, which is crazy to me, because they have, you know, a potentially up to 20 Americans there. I think of number 17. But and it's not a wall to wall topic and it's not constantly being talked about to the administration. So I'd love to see them succeed, obviously. And I will praise them if they do.

I buy our lawmakers. Yeah. I've heard a lot of doom and gloom from people thinking that they're all dead. And I think that that's part of why people are not speaking out the way they are. But again, I've heard directly from a family that they have had confirmation from the IDF that their family members are alive. So I, anyone listening who thinks they're all dead, they are not like there is hope and there is purpose here. And the purpose is getting as many people home as possible. I'm sure that Hamas is prioritizing their staying alive because they're the most effective human shields Hamas has, the most effective bargaining pieces Hamas has. So it's not that they care at all about the Israeli lives. It's just that they're useful right now. Can I ask you, Carol, this is the thing that is bothering me. And I, too, Carol, is this is the thing that is bothering

me? And I, too, and I said this on the show yesterday, I am rooting for our president. I'm rooting for our secretary of state to navigate this enormous challenge as effectively as they can. But I'm also very conscious of the fact that, let's face it, the Biden policies helped get us here. They helped get us here. And I know that you've been doing reporting on the money that we've been funneling, um, to the Palestinians directly in contrast to what Trump did. You know, I mean, Trump it's again, you know, that's, this is like the thing about Trump, the main tweets and the weird things he says. And yet just explain to the audience what he did when it came to Palestinian aid, when he got in there and what Joe Biden did. Yeah. Well, that's the whole thing, right? It's

like Joe Biden was supposed to be the serious guy after, after the mean tweets, you know, Trump guy. And he's so much less serious to me. I think that, look, whatever you think of Donald Trump, he had people around him giving him really good advice. And the cutting off the funding to Palestinians to the, you know, to the Gaza Strip, it helped. It helped contain them for a while. I think that what we're seeing right now is just capitulation. And again, if this money ends up somehow helping the Gazans and freeing the hostages and all of that, I will be the first to celebrate it. It is not because Joe Biden has a D after his name that I that I don't like it. I don't like it because I think that all of this money is just going to go to further terrorize

Israelis, further terrorize all people in that region who don't abide by the Hamas code. And I don't see how it doesn't end up in Hamas hands. They keep telling us. The U.N. is going to oversee it, Carol. The U.N. is I'm sure they're going to. Fear not. Right. Yeah. The U.N. they're going to be right on it. I'm sure the U.N. also loses millions of dollars every year. Like, where did it go? I don't know. And the U.N. hates Israel. Yeah. Well, that's for sure. So, yeah, I don't have a lot of faith that this money is going to go towards drinking water or building up their electricity grid or anything like that. It's going to be stolen by Hamas to use for bad ends. You know, Bethany, there was this report from Open the Books that said that outlaid the numbers pretty, pretty strongly, saying they found Biden administration spent more than one billion from U.S. taxpayers, unquote, aid to Palestinians.

It's proposing sending another 260 million in its fiscal year 2024 budget request not yet approved by Congress. And they're talking about how Trump in August of 2018 imposed a freeze on all of this. The, the wall street journal praised the moved the move because they were saying that Hamas has what's known as a pay for slay policy. Actually, the wall street journal had published this a year before he did it, where you get rewarded as a Hamas fighter for all the dead Jews you can you can make happen. And therefore, you know, we're giving this aid. We've been under Biden giving this aid to, quote, the Palestinians, which is kind of pretending it's not going to wind up in Hamas's hands. Yeah. All of my niceness about Joe Biden from five minutes ago is not here. It's not present on that. It is disgusting. And it would be awfully nice. And I'm speaking to the

many Hill staffers and members of Congress who listen to your show. It would be awfully nice if Republicans could get their act together and have a speaker of the house and be able to function as adults who run the legislature, who control the purse strings to try to prevent this from happening. But, you know, Nancy Mace has to show up with an A on her shirt and make a whole thing about her. And Matt Gaetz has to stand up and fundraise off of his insolence. Like it would be really nice for the grownups to be in charge of, of the house again, um, so that we could do something about it. But, you know, I guess that like, people care more about becoming a household name than actually doing their jobs and serving the

American people and serving our interests. But, you know, if you decide you want to actually be grownups again, maybe, maybe vote on a speaker and get this done. Yeah, I did. We actually did just hear this morning that now Jim Jordan says he's going to support the temporary speaker staying as temporary speaker. OK, I mean, honestly, like I've been covering this much at all. I couldn't give a shit. I'm so pissed. Like they all say this is why I get back to me when you have a decision. I don't I don't respect any of you. I can't stand you people. You can't run like a very simple by. It's not like you're a senator. You're really not even that important. You don't have that many responsibilities. All you have to do is run

for reelection every two years. I mean, really, like you can have absolutely no education and know nothing about life and win a seat in U.S. Congress. Hi, Ilhan Omar. Hi, Rashida Tlaib. Hi, Cori Bush. You may be the worst of them all. Just a stupid. OK, so I don't care. Get your shit in order. The Republicans just as bad. Almost. I wouldn't say just, but almost as bad. So get back to me when you have somebody. OK, that's that's my take. More with more with Bethany and Carol coming up right after this. Don't go away. So there was an insurrection on Capitol Hill yesterday. By the Democrats definition, there was an insurrection where a group of unruly protesters stormed the Capitol, interfering with legislative business. And they were very pissed off about Israel. They're very, they're

not bad. They're not mad about the dead babies. They're mad about what's happening in Gaza. And of course, Rashida Tlaib was their leader, encouraging them. I'll show you a little bit of the protest and then we'll get to what she said. Here's thought two. sought to. Black, brown, and left, murderers on! Keep her down! Keep her down! Keep her down! Keep her down! Keep her down! Keep her down! Come and come and you can hide, you can burn and tear the spot! Come and come and you can hide, you can burn and tear the spot! Keep her down! Keep her down! Keep her down! Take! Take! Take! Take! Take! All right. You get the idea. I'm pretty sure that there are people serving prison terms right now

for the January 6th behavior that that was less than that. There are guys in prison right now who did less than that on January 6th who have, had the book thrown at them. But I guess it's fine if it's in the name of Palestinian rights. And remember how it was, well, Matt Gaetz, I think was one, and also one of my favorite senators, Missouri Senator Josh, why am I forgetting his name right now? Holly. Holly, hello. All I could think was H-O-L-L-Y, and I knew it was wrong. H-A-W-L-E-Y, Holly. I really like that guy. He got such shit for giving a thumbs up at some of the protesters on Jerry's. I mean, it was like a story in all the news. All he did was a thumbs up. Rashida Tlaib was their leader yesterday. She was their leader. She she that she wanted more, more, more. OK, we'll see what happens to her. Pro tip. It'll be nothing. Here she was once again

peddling disinformation about that hospital bombing, which was done by Islamic Jihad, not Israel. Here she is refusing to accept that fact. Continue to watch people think it's okay to bomb a hospital with children. You know what's so hard sometimes is watching those videos and the people telling the kids don't cry and like let them cry. And they're shaking and somebody you know this they keep telling them not to cry in Arabic. They can cry. I can cry. We all can cry. If we're not crying something is wrong. And so I'm telling you right now, President Biden, not all America's with you on this one.

And you need to wake up and understand that. We are literally, literally watching people commit genocide. We will remember this. But all of you, you need to know, I swear to God, you are on the right side of history. Wow. A lot of energy for the Palestinians. Don't remember seeing that for the murdered children in Israel from her. And does she care about the hospital bombing? You know, now that we know that it wasn't Israel, of course she doesn't. And at that point, you know, we knew already that it wasn't Israel. She continued to lie about it. That's right. So, I mean, I see her and I see all those people in the Capitol as actors here because they know what the truth is. They're trying to lie to us. And I really also think that people like them are responsible in such a large way for what goes on in that region.

The Palestinian supporters in the West have done so much damage to the Palestinian cause. Do we remember when AOC had to walk back her support for a two-state solution? Two-state solution used to be what liberals and most of the left believed in. They don't believe in that anymore. They want one state called Palestine, river to the sea, with no Israel. That's never going to happen. That's never going to happen. And the longer that people believe that it might happen, that's what leads to these atrocities. And people like her are responsible for this happening because they let the hope live that someday Israel won't exist.

That will never happen. Bethany, there she was crying. This is OK. Here she is a week ago. OK, just a week ago. Just a reminder. Watch. Do you condone what Hamas has done, chopping off babies, burning children alive, raping women in the street? You have no comment about children's heads being chopped off. Congressman, why do you have a Palestinian flag outside your office if you do not condone what Hamas terrorists have done to Israel? Do Israeli lives not matter to you? She's disgusting. Her actual feelings are

perfectly well on display in those two clips, Bethany. Yep. Yep. And speaking of actors, piggybacking on what Carol said, all of the coverage that happened yesterday in the Capitol, the cry on the description on the bottom, even on Fox News, said Jewish. Yeah. Chiron. Thank you. I can never say that correctly. It said Jewish groups there. They were not Jewish. They were using holy garments as tokens. They were wearing a talus, which is normally used in morning prayers and morning prayers only. And they wore it. They wore yarmulkes prayers and morning prayers only, and they wore it,

they wore yarmulkes and masks, of course, because they can't let go of that religion either. But they're wearing yarmulkes and taluses, they had to like rent them from the local, I don't know, Judaica store, because they don't own them. They're not religious Jews. They were not representative of the vast, vast majority of American Jews. And even lefties, by the way. So many of my liberal Jewish friends have been completely red pilled because they're seeing stuff like Ilhan Omer and they're like, oh, well, she, you know, maybe maybe there's maybe the wolf is right outside the door and there's the the wheels are starting to turn a little bit and liberal Jews are starting to realize, oh, it turns out all of these people want me dead. Yeah, it's yeah, I'm going to have to pass. Yeah. Alan Dershowitz was doing a bit on these Jews for it was Jewish voices for peace. And he did a great bit on his

show yesterday about how they're none of those things. Those protests, they're not Jewish. They don't really have actual voices. It's all, you know, astroturf and they don't want peace. So it was, you know, they tried to say, oh, and the media ran with it, like Jewish groups join in the protest, you know, demanding peace. That's not true at all. And it's, of course, just perfect on on the back of the hospital misreporting that we have more misreporting and an insurrection that nobody cares about, Carol. I mean, it's just like it hits all the things like disinformation when it confirms your priors, more disinformation doubling down on the lie. She's already told insurrection that

the Democrats don't give a damn about like every you can understand why there are Trump voters today. Like, right. Yeah. I mean, I don't understand how invading the Capitol isn't a crime. I was told that it absolutely is. And it's, you know, a crime of sedition and you absolutely will be arrested. Why isn't that happening? I mean, a few people were arrested, I think, for assaulting a police officer. So it was actually also violent. I think that we're seeing this double standard. And it also goes back to the whole, these college kids are protesting, you know, in favor of Hamas. They're saying the most despicable things. They've turned the paragliders into some kind of heroes. And now they want to be

not named. They don't want their future employers to know about them. Well, I'm sorry, here's the double standard. And you're going to be, you're going to have to live under the rules that you created for the rest of us. You started this cancel culture and now you have to live as a part of it. I feel the same way about all the people that were in the Capitol yesterday. We were told that on January 6th, that, you know, walking into the Capitol, however peacefully you want to say that you are, is a huge crime. Well, I'd like to see some accountability in that case. And I'd like to see some accountability in that case. And I'd like to see Republicans push for it. Oh, yeah. Let's see what the prison sentences are for these guys. Let's let's follow these cases. Let's get Julie Kelly on it.

The only honest reporter on the January 6th trials and see what she finds. I have a feeling it's going to look a lot different, Bethany. Yeah, I mean, I would push back a little bit. And I'm hearing this question a lot from reporters and editors and everything well don't you support cancel culture if you think that these folks should lose their jobs and no there is a line between saying something mean um and inciting violence and what we saw or stupid mean or stupid that's that's in one category supporting terror isn't a difference sorry keep going no mean, you said exactly. Thank you. And you're better at talking. I can't even say the word cry on or cry on whatever it is. Cry on. Thank you. I still can't do it. Cry on the brain because of the Rashida Tlaib clip.

Yeah. But it's I mean, it's incitement to violence. Like there is there is a line here on what you are allowed to say. And I'm sorry, supporting the the torture and murder of Jewish babies or just babies in general, like as a human being, like, sorry, we found the line. And they just don't understand that you're not. So I don't I part out loud. I don't think it's illegal. I don't think it's unlawful incitement. I just think it's grounds for never getting a job again. Like I'm not for me. I, if you want to hire those people, good luck to you. Good luck to your Jewish employees. Um, but the, the, like this, the notion that they shouldn't wind up on a list that thoughtful employers can consult to find out who's a terrorist sympathizer is insane to me.

Carol, I did this cause I saw your piece the other day, um, on cancel culture needs to come for college kids. But I agree with Bethany. It's not exactly cancel culture. But I just went back for kicks. And I like this website, The College Fix. They keep an eye on campus craziness just to see like, what are some of the most recent examples of the nuts stuff that has gotten people canceled? And I wrote down a couple of notes. OK. UNLV just apologized for using the word picnic. It will change it to lunch by the lake. I don't know what's wrong with picnic. I don't give a shit. I don't care enough to go find out. Michigan State Law School. The ABA recently recognized it, according to FOIA documents that they got their hands on, recognized it and applauded it for removing the Spartan helmet from Michigan state's marketing materials because this could be triggering to sexual assault victims.

Oh, because it's Spartans. Oh, okay. Wait, I got to give you a couple more. Can we rewind for a second? Okay. Yeah, go ahead. Oh, yeah. All right.

I'll give you a couple more and then you rewind. Hold on. They care about sexual assault, but not of Jewish women. Go. Yeah, go ahead. Oh yeah. All right. I'll give you the couple more and then you rewind. Hold on. They care about sexual assault, but not of Jewish women. Go. No, correct. Exactly. That's not triggering at all. University of Missouri fired a white cop for wearing the dark makeup, which they now call blackface to be Flava Flav before he was ever hired by the university. Somebody discovered an old picture of this cop doing it. You know, OK. Northwestern student government president told students not to eat tacos or drink tequila on Cinco de Mayo because it's triggering and it's dehumanizing to Mexicans. OK, then here's another one. The Princeton acapella group was singing the Little Mermaid song by the crab, Sebastian the crab.

There's a line in it that reads that says, go on and kiss the girl, kiss the girl. Well, they encouraged a couple from the audience to come up on stage and encourage the guy to kiss the girl. And they got in trouble because this was promoting a heteronormative attack on women. And it elevated the song to an offensive and violating ritual. All those people are now telling us that it is fine to go out and cheer for the eradication of Israel and Jews and to cheer on the terror and murder en masse of Jewish children, civilians, women, pregnant women. We could go down the list, Carol. The absurdity of these people. I mean, they're ripping that tequila out of my cold, dead hands on Cinco de Mayo. I'm drinking tequila that day and absolutely having tacos.

I love tacos. That's the thing. They've set these insane standards and they absolutely refuse to live by them. I don't know if you can call it cancel culture or not. I also think like a lot of the people who are being videotaped or photographed taking down the pictures of the kidnapped children in Gaza, I don't have any problem with them being targeted at their jobs. Like, I'm sorry, I don't want to go to a dentist that tore down a picture of a five year old being held hostage in Gaza. And I don't feel comfortable getting in an MRI machine with an MRI technician that did the same thing. So I'm all about expose them all, name them all. And you can call it cancel culture. You know, uh, many Hassan from MSNBC said, Oh, conservatives used to be really into free speech. Well, yeah, well you won that battle and we no longer are. So congratulations. Yeah, exactly. And honestly, like we, we talked about this a couple, I don't know, years ago, Candace Owens had on some, I can't remember the woman's name, but they had a big debate on whether Republicans, conservatives, people who are against cancel culture, she started doing it to teach a lesson. And Candace Owens is very much on the side of,

let's do it, let's do it, let's teach a lesson. Same, I agree. We tried the high ground. It didn't work. The only thing that works is canceling their asses so they can understand what a bad game it is. But this discussion is in an entirely different lane. This is terror sympathizers. There's no debate.

You're out. It's a no. Get out. Go enjoy your time with the students for justice for Palestine. Or you can obviously get a job as a professor in any elite university in America because they love you. They love people like you. I'll give you the last word, Bethany. Yeah, I mean, I'm not spending my money or going under the needle with any of these terrorist sympathizers. This is not like, I don't like their speech. It's that it's an existential threat to individual Jewish Americans and to the Jewish community at large, because I'm sorry, I'm afraid of a guy who will walk around ripping down posters

of Jewish children who are missing and being tortured by people who cut off the fingers and cut out the eyes of Jewish babies already. Like we are in a fight of good versus evil and people need to take a stand and understand that that is the reality on the ground here. And, you know, cancel all their asses and destroy them because they've decided to side with Nazis. Yeah, that I completely agree. This is a different thing.

This is the same as cheering on ISIS as it burned people in cages. It's the same as saying, you know, those guys who cut off poor Daniel Pearl's head, they had some points, you know, we should, we should really listen and empath. No, goodbye. It's over. It's over for us too. Sadly, Bethany and Carol, love you gals. Thanks for coming on. Thank you so much, Megan. You're the best. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Lots of love. Hang in there. Victor Davis Hanson up next. We are getting new information now, according to the Associated Press,

Israel's defense minister today told ground troops at the border with Gaza to prepare to invade. But he did not say exactly when the invasion would start. At the same time, and you heard the gals reference it in our last hour, Bethany said it, reports now that some 30 rockets have been fired from Lebanon into Israel today. We've seen skirmishes, increasing minor attacks. I don't want to diminish them, but it's not the full-, scale of attacks that Lebanon could do for the past week or so. So we, you know, we have to watch each one wondering where does this lead? Where does this lead? And is this something more than just a saber rattle joining me now,

I guess, to, I told my team I needed to hear from this week. I've been following him religiously for a long, long time. He's brilliant. You know, and love him too. Victor Davis Hanson. He's a senior fellow at the Stanford Hoover institution. He's also the author of the book, the dying citizen, how progressive elites, tribalism, and globalism are destroying the idea of America. And you can find his writings at his website, the blade of Perseus for people who are dumb like me, when it comes to the classics, that's P E R S E U S VictorE-U-S. Victor, he's tried. He's tried to educate us, but we don't always listen the way we should. Great to see you. Great to have you. I know you've been watching the military pieces of this. And in addition to all of your

education, you are an expert on military conflicts over the course of history. And Lebanon, like I said, they keep doing a little bit here, a little bit here. This isn't the full deal. But if Israel invades Gaza, there's a belief by some that they will get involved, that as soon as Israel goes into Gaza with ground troops, you're going to see Hezbollah from Lebanon get involved in this thing and possibly even Iran. What do you think? I'm kind of a contrarian on that, Megan. In 2006, they did that to Israel, and it had kind of a multi-front war. And as the economics minister of Lebanon said,

I think last week, if we get into war with Israel, they're going to turn us back into the dark ages as they did in 2006. They haven't really recovered from 2006. And the IDF's air forces kind of made Beirut, especially the Shia districts, into rubble. Nasrallah ended up hiding in an embassy. And so I think what they're going to do is send off 10 or 20 and find that soft spot they think that when Israel goes in, they can help Hamas and regain their street cred or maintain it by saying, well, we were opening a second front and doing just enough to get a tit-for-tat response from the IDF, because the IDF they think will be busy in Hamas. But they have over 500 aircraft, and they have the ability to level Beirut. And I think at this point, when you lose 1,200 civilians and another 200 soldiers,

and they're murdered in the way they were, there's no restraints on Israel. And then there's the other fact is that unlike these past tensions, we've got two aircraft carriers groups. It's 150 of our best planes and they have the ability if some crazy person sends a rocket against them or a randos to do the same thing to Beirut and to Tehran and they know it. And I know that they have no respect for Joe Biden, but Joe Biden's being driven by events. He's not driving them now. He's reacting. And if they were to attack us, or if they send a huge wave into Israel, there's nothing Joe Biden could do but to allow Israel to respond, or I think he'd have to respond if they attacked us.

I don't think they're in such a good position, Iran is, and nobody likes them. I mean, the Western world, Europe's sick of them. Their new clients, or I should say their new patrons, Russia and China, both have a long history of anti-Islamic, you know, Uyghurs and Chechnya, and they put up with them, they find them useful, but they wouldn't intervene to protect Iran or Hezbollah. And most of the Arab world, it's so duplicitous that their attitude would be, well, we're going to condemn, you know, the infidels for attacking another Muslim group in Hezbollah or Iran, but privately, they would call us up and say, if you're going

to do it, get rid of them for good. So I don't think they have a lot of allies and they're going to be very careful what they do. So interesting. All right, let me ask you about this piece of analysis. I love the podcast commentary. And yesterday they had on an author named Jonathan Shanzer, who seems to have some connection or some, some info, uh, connected with the Israeli government. Cause he was speaking like a man who knew that's my

speculation from listening to him. But this is, he said a lot of interesting things, but one of them was, he said, um, Hamas has only 10% of what Hezbollah has in terms of rockets and Hezbollah has got a lot more rocket power than Hamas does and that Hezbollah may now have precision guided rockets. Um, so they would be a potential threat to Israel. But he was adding to this that there are meetings right now in the Israeli government and I guess there's a work council of three people. It's Netanyahu and two others who are going to make the decision about what Israel does next.

So Netanyahu doesn't have sole decision-making authority. He's not the commander in chief like our guy is, you know, who could make, who could make the call on something like this alone. Um, though he'd need Congress to declare a war technically in America, they're debating whether they should just do a ground invasion into Hamas. I mean, into Gaza or whether they should on their own Israel start it up with Hezbollah in Lebanon and just go for it full, full bore on both fronts once and for all. And that his information was Netanyahu only wanted to do one front that's Gaza. And one of the others wanted to do two fronts. And so the third gentleman on this council is going to be the decision maker. But I mean, what do you think of that possibility that Israel might start it up with both Hezbollah and ground invasion in Gaza?

Well, I think that's a very realistic assessment, because how many times do they have 150 of the world's best pilots right off their coast in America? And how many times are they presented with an existential threat that if this happens again, there won't be an Israel? You can't have a nation and allow people to go in. And we know that people kill and murder and rape and torture and mutilate the way that Hamas did. Hamas is an entity of Iran as is Hezbollah. So in their way of thinking, at some critical point, they're going to wait for Hezbollah to have a volley, and there's going to be a magical number on Israel's side,

which is going to allow them to go back and hit. And when we say 1,000 sites, 10,000, 100,000, what we're talking about are hidden all over Beirut. And so they're not going to, there's no way they can be discriminant. They have to go in and take them out. And they did that in 2006. And Lebanon's never recovered. Hezbollah knows that. And they know they're going to target the Hezbollah people. They look at what's going on in Gaza. So, I think it's realistic. And the other thing is when we say coalition government, that means people from the left. And it's a phenomenon in

these Western societies. Ours is a good example. When you have Biden, a man of the left, they stick with the left. So if Biden decides to do anything, there's not going to be a lot of people in the Senate or the House who say, you're a war criminal, or you're a Nazi in the way they did George Bush or Donald Trump. They're going to say, he's our guy, and we're going to go with him. And the same thing in this coalition government. If the other person who is a little bit more hawkish than Netanyahu, who's a man of the left, and there's a good chance he is, or at least he's not in the Likud party, the Israeli left will be saying, you can do whatever you want.

And usually the Israeli left is the person, the group, the people that we appeal to, to calm down. You know, let's have a two-state solution. Come on. But when they're for war because they're our own leaders for war, then there's no restraint. I don't see any restraint on Israel, to tell you the truth. I don't think they're going to listen to Biden. I hope they don't. I don't see a lot of Arab countries calling them up and saying, if you dare go into Gaza, or you dare go against Hezbollah, we're going to do this to you. I see them saying, we don't want

any people from Gaza into Egypt, and they're not coming into Jordan, believe me. That's their attitude. And the Saudis' attitude is, if you guys want to take them out, we're going to criticize you publicly, but we hope you finish it off. That's their attitude. I know that for a fact. What I'm gathering here is that the Palestinians, they're not well-loved in the Arab world. I mean, it seems like everybody's like, oh, you know, they're a useful chess piece to attack Israel with every once in a while. We hate Israel. So they're useful in that way. But live with them? Hell no. Let them into our country? Hard no. And so it is a question of whether they would

actually get involved in a proxy war with the United States or take on Israel directly, which has a very formidable military on behalf of the Palestinians. These are just realities whether they would actually get involved in a proxy war with the United States or take on Israel directly, which has a very formidable military on behalf of the Palestinians. These are just realities that seem to be pretty clear. They're not they don't have a ton of real support. That's true. And it applies to the other. They're all autocratic regimes. But when we give a billion dollars to the Jordanians, we give over that to the Egyptians, when they snub an American president based on a lie, and they knew it was a lie, but they knew their street knew it was a lie, but still was going to protest, and they had to side with the street over us. Part of that whole dialectic is that they look at us as weak after Afghanistan, after the Ukraine, after the Chinese balloon, after our own force border, after all the riots in George Floyd. They look at us and they think to themselves,

we're not going to go out on a limb against radical Islam for you guys. Now, if you were going to back us up and you were really going to take care of business with Hamas and Hezbollah, we might. But for now, we're going to sit on the fence and mouth the usual boilerplate that you're infidels and all of that stuff. And we don't want anything to do with you. But we're not going to get out ahead of you because you saw the limb off and we fall down. That's how they feel about this administration. And it's true. And unfortunately, in a way, and especially with Joe Biden now greenlighting $100 million. That'll end up, as you pointed out, fungible. It'll end up in Hamas's hands, or at least it will replace money the Iranians might have diverted for a little bit of humanitarian aid so that they can concentrate fully on rockets. Well, let's talk about the the idea of American deterrence, because, you know,

I mentioned this at the top of our first hour. We've got those two aircraft carriers and Joe Biden's clearly trying to be a deterrent force toward Iran, toward Hezbollah, toward anybody thinking about getting involved in what right now is limited to Israel versus Hamas. I realize Joe Biden is perceived as feckless by many, and for all the reasons you just said, but it's still two U.S. aircraft carriers, still the United States military. So are we still a deterrent in the way that we need to be? Well, deterrence is based on two facts. One is the physical reality that you have the material wherewithal to strike and protect your interest and your friends. And the other is that you're either willing to use it or you're unpredictable, maybe even a little

crazy. But if you're predictably not going to use your deterrent to protect your interest, that's worse than having nothing. Because in the enemy's mind, it's sort of, well, they have all this power, and yet they're so decadent and they've fallen so low, they wouldn't dare use it against us. And that develops a further contempt. But again, I don't think Joe Biden is in charge of events. We have these two big targets out there. And if you want to send 100,000 guided rockets at them, you could sink them. I don't think they could stop that. And they know that. But they also know that if you were to do that, there would be no more Hezbollah.

There'd be no more Beirut. There'd be no more Tehran. And they know that. And they know that Joe Biden may not order that, but there are forces in the Senate, the House, the American public that would demand that. And so they sit out there basically saying, what are you going to do about it? And that drives Iran crazy. I don't think Iran is in such a good position to tell you the truth. They're losing their pond that they've invested hundreds of billions of dollars to in Hamas. Nobody likes them. Their Chinese and Russian patrons don't like them. They like their drones, but they all, you know, Russia level Chechnya and China has a million

Uyghurs. They're not particularly pro-Islamic. And I don't think the Arab world has anything but contempt or fear of Iran. And so who is their constituency if somebody were to attack them? I don't want that's necessary at this point, but there is no constituency would say, please don't do that. We love the Iranians, or we're going to come to the aid of the Iranians. And Iran keeps saying that they've got a bomb, or they're close to it, but maybe they probably don't yet. And so the way I guess what I'm building up to is in the way of thinking of the Israelis and some people in the American government, that this occasion, if they started and they demand that they're going to wage jihad against the Israelis or attack America, then you might as well get it over with. And it won't be a Fallujah, a Mosul, Kandahar, Helmand province on the ground type of war, which is in their favor. It'll be an air campaign. You're talking about, wait, wait,

just to be clear, you're talking about if Iran gets involved, if Iran gets involved, then the response will be finish them? Yeah. Well, I mean, finish, not the Iranian people, but if Hezbollah attacks those carriers with rockets or Iran does, they know what will happen, Biden or no Biden. And that will be the end of their infrastructure in Tehran and their nuclear deterrent. They know that. And they don't want to give that up.

But wait, let me ask you this. But backing up, like zooming out of Hezbollah and sticking with Iran for, you know, directly for one second. Would they, I mean, one of the questions I have is whether they're just going to sit there after you point out they've invested all this money in Hamas. They'd love to see Hamas do their dirty work and take out Israel in however they can. So now if Israel goes in on the ground in Gaza and is actually making real progress, taking out Hamas, does Iran sit by and let its investment fail? You know, let it's that it's the head of the snake, but let the body of the snake die a quick death at the hand of the IDF.

It's not that it's not the question of whether they're going to let it. It's what's the alternative to letting them. And the alternative to letting them is opening the second front and experiencing what Gaza. The biggest danger, to tell you the truth, Megan, is not doing anything. Because then Iran says to themselves, well, they talked about going into Gaza, but they were restrained and all they did was bomb a little bit. And so if we went in, they talked about going into Gaza, but they were restrained and all they did was bomb a little bit. And so if we went in, they wouldn't go into us and do that either.

But if you go in and you have a righteous retribution and take out Hamas, then Iran is thinking, my God, the Israelis are angry and it's not going to be the same exchange of a few rockets tit and tat. So what are they doing now? They're sending 10, 20, 30, again, they're trying to find out how many rockets give that credibility in the Islamic world, but how many, what's the magic point when you do too many and you get a response? And so far, they've been pretty careful about finding that medium. Because after all, if you're going to send in 2,500 murderers and you plan it for a year and they're going to go into Israel and butcher and kill, then why, if you really are supporting

that and you want to intervene, why don't you do it when Israel's surprised and do it on the northern front? They didn't do that. In fact, it was even worse than that. They planned it and then they told us, we, it was even worse than that. They planned it, and then they told us, we support it, we're so happy. But you know what? We didn't plan it. We didn't have anything to do with it. They kept saying that. They were adamant about that. And they were adamant because they didn't want to see Beirut suffer what they thought would be the

fate of Gaza City, which is the fate of Gaza. And they know that. So, you know, anybody who says they know what's going to happen in the Middle East is always kind of a fool. But I suspect that there's a greater likelihood that they're not going to intervene in a fashion that would save Hamas or open up a serious front. And if they do do that, I think people in Israel will see it as this is finally an existential war and it's time to get it over with for good. And they know that. And I think the United States put those carriers out there to, A, to deter Iran, but more importantly, to say to Iran and Hezbollah that if you were to touch us, or if you intervene and Israel is threatened with an existential destruction, which I don't think it would be,

but if it were, we're going to intervene. And of course, that would be preferable than to Israel going to DEFCON 1 with nuclear weapons. We don't want that to happen. Right. So what do you think is likely to happen now as Israel tells the troops? Because there's been some speculation. Are they going in or aren't they? Like, as you point out, the biggest, you know, message might be if they don't go in and it might not be such a great message for Israel to send. But there's been a lot of speculation.

Like, what's taking them so long? You know, we're now, what, 12 days post 10-7, and they haven't gone in. They're lining up. Speculation about whether they're trying to negotiate for the release of these hostages. It'd be great if you could get the hostages out, but Hamas knows not to release the hostages. They know it's just going to make them sitting ducks if they do that. So these guys, these IDF soldiers, have quite a challenge in front of them, given the layout of Gaza, the way Hamas has been planning and the length of time they've been

planning these underground cities that they appear to have been building for God knows how long. How do you see all those challenges? Well, they're quite great. But remember, they haven't been idle. They have done more damage to Hamas and Gaza City and the history of Hamas in Gaza City. And they're doing it systematically, taking out key installations. And there's no restraint on them. They're not telling us, we're sorry, this, we're not going to. They're just doing it every day, every 200, 300 strikes a day. And I think what they're trying to do is two things.

Weaken the command and control structure of Hamas and send a message to the people of Gaza. Each day, your zealotry for these people is going to diminish a little bit because we're not going to attack you directly, but look at what they did to you. And they're putting you as shields. They're trying to stop you from going. And so it's to create internal dissension. And as they're doing this, they're also trying to debate how do you go into this hellhole? And they have Americans saying, you know what, this is what happened when they went after ISIS in Mosul with the Iraqi army that we advised. Here's what we did in Fallujah. And I don't see it as just a one-dimensional invasion going in there. really bleak landscapes is to target an area and go in and kill the Hamas people and get rid of the tunnels, then go out and do it more like ink spots than just one massive push everybody out.

Because that's what we did in Fallujah. We kind of went in different directions and we filtered out the civilians, but that was a pretty horrific place. We stopped once, but people forget that the United States Marine Corps, I was embedded, and I went into Fallujah after they had got done with it. I wouldn't want to have been in Fallujah is what I'm saying. Do you have any hope for them being able to extract these hostages? If it's obviously speaking about militarily. Yeah, I think that depends a lot. And this is why I'm really upset about it.

Because when you look at the demonstrations on campus and what university professors and administrators have said or what the left have said, there's been no empathy at all. I mean, think of it, Megan. We were willing to give $1.2 billion per hostage to Iran for those five, and yet they killed 20-something Americans. And they've got another, we don't know exactly how many hostages, but there's no outcry that if you touch this hostage or you kill this hostage, this American, this is what we're going to do to you. And so, yeah, I am worried because they don't, they have to know there's going to be a downside if they touch them. And we'll see. I don't know what we've communicated to them. When Anthony Blinken, you know, and Joe Biden say that give them $100 million or Joe Biden said yesterday that the problem was that Islamic Jihad couldn't shoot straight. And I guess what he meant was, well, if that missile had hit the target and killed Jewish civilians in Tel Aviv, then we wouldn't have had this problem because the street wouldn't have exploded in the Arab world. We wouldn't have had to give the

hundred million. I wouldn't have been snubbed. It's the problem is Islamic Jihad didn't shoot straight. That's basically what he said. Well, what message does that convey to the hostage taker? So I'm really worried that we've got a secretary of state, a national security advisor, and a president that don't understand the charter of Hamas and what they're up against. Islamists and jihadists, the more it's going to be reciprocated in moderation, where in fact, all evidence in the past says it's going to be reciprocated with more violence because it's going to interpret that as weakness to be exploited, not to be returned in kind. You've been talking about sort of the sympathies that this administration clearly has shown toward toward Iran and this utopian belief that they can extend the hand of friendship and somehow, you know, Robert Malley, what happened with him. Now we have a new they want us to confirm this ambassador to Israel because we don't have one right now. This guy who was, you know, he lied to Congress. He was responsible for giving them

the pallets, Jack Lube, pallets full of. Like, it just seems like at every turn you look inside this administration, what you find is Iran sympathizers, or people who have this Pollyanna view toward Iran. Well, I mean, we picked, when you, when we appointed Robert Malley, we were saying that we want somebody to go well beyond what John Kerry had done under the Obama people. That is, he would be pro-Iranian. And he's now accused, allegedly, of disseminating classical documents to somebody and to bringing in, as you said, sympathizers into the State Department. And Iran looks at that. They look at the release of the sanctions and the oil sanctions where they got tens of billions of dollars. They have attacked us reportedly. I haven't checked the accuracy, but the media says 83 times they've attacked Americans. And we've only been tallied three or four times. And then these drones that are coming from Iranian-backed militias in Iraq attacking America.

And then giving... So we've done all of this despite all of these provocations, and they keep upping the ante. And we gave the money back. As soon as they came in, they restored the UN refugee money. I think now Blinken was over there in February of this year saying that bragging to Abbas would be giving them an aggregate billion, I think. And so they don't interpret that as anything other than somebody really wants to like them and appease them and make sure they're happy. And unfortunately, that's a very dangerous thing to do. Whereas if you're deterrent, you have a large military and you don't say anything and you're quiet with a big stick rather than loud with a twig, then you create deterrence. And we had deterrence under Donaldion. We upped the military budget. We allowed the Israelis to go to Jerusalem.

We allowed the embassy, the Golden Heights. And each one of those occasions that we were told that the Iranians were going to react or the Hamas was going to do this, and they didn't. It's because they understood first that we had reason to do that. And second, that we were unpredictable and powerful rather than predictably weak. You know, I was, I've been thinking about this a lot lately because I was at Fox when Barack Obama was running for president and it was 2008 and they were having the debates. I believe it was at the debate. It was still a primary debate before he secured the nomination. And he got asked a question. It was 2007. He got asked a question and he gave this answer that would become news for several days. And I remember listening to

Charles Krauthammer tear this answer apart on special report the next night. I actually had them pull it so we could watch it because I do think this was the beginning of this massive change that the United States has had under its Democratic presidents toward Iran. What what was, I believe, a gaffe got turned into U.S. policy. Not this specific thing, but this open mindedness, extend the hand of friendship thing toward Iran. Here was the moment from 2007. Would you be willing to meet separately without precondition during the first year of your administration in Washington or anywhere else with the leaders of Iran, Syria, Venezuela, Cuba, and North Korea? I would somewhat and the reason is this that

the notion that somehow not talking to countries uh... is punishment to them uh... which has been the guiding uh... diplomatic principle of this administration is ridiculous felt ronald reagan and democratic presence like jay fk constantly spoke to soviet union at a time when Ronald Reagan called them an evil empire. And the reason is because they understood that we may not trust them.

They may pose an extraordinary danger to this country. But we have the obligation to find areas where we can potentially move forward. July 23rd, 2007. What do you make of it? That was utter ignorance. It was historically ignorant because Ronald Reagan surely didn't want to talk to Castro. He didn't want to talk to Gaddafi because they had no deterrent. He talked to the Soviet Union because they had 7,000 nuclear weapons pointed at us and they were putting missiles into Germany at our allies. So he had no choice. And that was the rules of the Cold War. But I wish I could say that it was just naivete with Iran, because I remember the Iran deal of 2015 and 16, and Ben Rhodes said, you know, we fed them an echo chamber of news, and they know nothing, these 30-something reporters. What he was saying was that we enacted a policy centered around the Iran deal, but it was even earlier. Remember when he came in the first year, the Iranians rose up thinking that Obama

was some kind of revolutionary, empathetic figure in the West, and the Green Revolution in Iran had a million people on the street. He didn't say a word for 11 days. In other words, he didn't want that to succeed because it would upset his grand vision of the Middle East. And what was it? We know what it was. It was to empower Iran and by extension, the Assads in Syria. And remember, they said there's a red line if they move around, we're going to do that. He did nothing. And Hezbollah, and by extension, Hamas, and this was going to lead to creative tension against, and he didn't like the Gulf sheikhdoms, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, the immigrants, and this creative tension, yin and yang, wharf and whoop, that at key points we would say and say, now listen, Israel, don't do this, or listen, Iran, you're getting a little bit too excessive. But there would be no moral distinction between a murderous theocracy and a humane constitutional in Iran and a humane constitutional government in Israel. He wanted to empower that crescent, what they call the Shia crescent. And the logical fruition of that policy is what we're

looking at now. An out-of-control Iran that kills three, you know, three million Yemenis have been killed or wounded, and they have a proxy war there. They've destroyed Lebanon. They're in Syria. Syria is a wasteland. They're killing Americans. They're trying to destroy that fragile government in Iraq. They've armed Hamas to the teeth. They're trying to destroy by proxy Israel. That's the legacy of the Obama plan. And that's why for, to be frank, that's why for 72 hours, he was paralyzed. When people ask him to comment about the murdering of Israeli civilians, what was he going to say? Was he going to say, well, I had a rapprochement. I had to talk with all these people and it didn't work. I'm sorry. He's not going to say that. He didn't know what to say.

And it's all, I mean, it all kind of comes together because I heard you on your podcast, which I love and I recommend to everybody, talking to Jack Fowler, our friend, and he was raising with you Valerie Jarrett. I did not realize that Valerie Jarrett was raised in part in Iran. Yes, she was. Her parents were professional. I did not realize that. That, Valerie, and then there was Jack Lew, this guy we just talked about, who's been nominated to be our ambassador to Israel. He was with the Obama administration. Robert Malley. All these things that we just talked about all started under Obama.

But so, got to remember that Robert Malley was their Hamas advisor for Obama, and he was the ISIS advisor. So their policy that blew up and that Trump took care of with ISIS, that was Robert Malley's territory under Obama. Then we got to remember, too, that Jake Sullivan worked for Joe Biden under Obama. So did Anthony Blinken. This whole foreign policy team is, to be frank, is just a third term of the Obama foreign policy. And Joe Biden, you know, it's kind of cruel to say that, but, you know, he's a construct. He's not making these active decisions. The Obamas are. They're continuing this. And it's led to nothing but death and destruction. And it's really amoral

to see what's going on when we have, it's paralyzed. I mean, right now, Megan, we're looking at people in Europe that have more moral clarity than this administration's people do. That's really, I've never seen that before. The French are better on what Hamas is really like and what happened in Israel than we are. When Joe Biden talks about the radical elements, the more radical elements of Hamas, what does he mean? That Hamas is a legitimate organization that's been hijacked by a few radicals? That's not true. And what does Anthony Blinken mean when his first reaction to the killing, the killing in Israel, the abject murder, is to meet with a Turkish foreign minister and call for a ceasefire. If you were, I said to the Ukrainian, just as public commentators, if we said when Russia invaded, we think this is a cycle of violence.

You've had a long history. It leads to nothing. We urge you to have a ceasefire. And if they didn't, we said, listen, Ukraine, we want you to avoid all infrastructure. Do not hit that bridge. Do not hit that port. Do not hit that harbor without first notifying your Russians that there might be civilians in the area. And by the way, we want all your responses to be proportionate. And we've said the opposite. We've said, you know what, you're going to go up, you're going to defeat Russia and you've got to be disproportionate. And we're going to give you all the wherewithal to keep on fighting. And yet we don't do that to our closest ally in the Middle East. The question is why? Yeah. Well, what is it about Israel? And truly look at America after 9-11. Yeah, I think we know that. It's about proportionate response.

It would not have gone over so well. No, if you were, I said that if you said this, Megan, on your podcast, Megan Kelly says, well, I support the Ukrainians, but I don't like the cycle of violence. And I want them to notify when they have to get near civilian targets. And I want them to respect the Russian leadership and understand that Putin does not speak for the Russian people. And this is a cycle of violence. And we want only proportionate responses as we work on a peace process and negotiations. And we want a theater-wide ceasefire. I think they would force you off the air. They try to.

Yeah, I think you're right. I mean, I think they would have been laughed out of the country if they had said it to us after 9-11, after Pearl Harbor. You know, I mean, there are real reasons to understand what needs to happen here is destruction of the enemy. Historically, a proportionate response leads to deadlock and further death. And if we had said after Pearl Harbor, well, we're going to go hit Yokohama and try to destroy six battleships and call it quits. Or we could have said to the

Israelis, okay, here's what we're going to let you do. You can take 2,500 gunmen, go into Gaza and murder 1,200 men, women, mutilate them, burn them, and then we'll stop. That would be a proportion. And that's not how wars end. That's what you said. I quoted you the other day. You said, show me the war that has ended after a, quote, proportionate response. I don't know anything. The Civil War did not end when Ulysses S. Grant was outside Richmond and Robert E. Lee was entrenched in Richmond. And we had Cold Harbor and Seven Days and all of this bloodletting.

And they were both proportionate. One side was trying to get into Richmond. One was dug. And it ended when William Tecumseh Sherman went down and burned Atlanta. And then he made a swath 150 miles through Savannah and ridiculed and humiliated the Confederacy. And then they said, you've got to stop. It's on it. He said, no. And he went through South and North Carolina with 100,000 of the best soldiers in the world

and pulled up behind Robert E. Lee and said, you want me to do it again? And they surrendered. And that was a disproportionate response. And nobody had ever quite thought he would do that. How can you burn down a plantation and free slaves? And he said, you started it and we finished it. And he was hated for 100 years, but he didn't kill a lot of people. I'm not saying that disproportionality means death. It just means using a level of force that gets the attention of the enemy that they're going to lose either now or later, but they're going to lose. And that's how wars end. And we got the morality all haywire. This is amoral, what we're doing, putting restraints. If you keep restraining Israel and you keep telling them what they can do and what they can't do,

and you treat them like a third world barbaric nation rather than a sophisticated constitutional society that just suffered the worst so-called peacetime death in its history, and you keep restraining, then you will get Hezbollah to enter on the premise that they're weak and they can't respond. You let them go and have confidence in their humanity and their ability to kill the killers, and I have a feeling that Hezbollah won't do anything. But that's counterintuitive to our prevailing wisdom. Show restraint. Find just the radical elements in this jihadist organization, which otherwise is

not completely radical. Talk to them. Bring in this, that, and I think Iran will make the necessary adjustments when they see that, and it won't be good. Yeah, that's what we've seen so far. Oh, such an interesting discussion. BDH, you're the best.

Stand by. More with him on the opposite side of this break. I'm loving, loving his expertise. You, I know you feel the same. We learned today, oh, this is just so sad, about the fate of a little Israeli girl whose photo went viral after she went missing after the Hamas terror attack on 10-7. Her picture went viral because she was wearing a Harry Potter inspired costume in the photo. The image was viewed more than 26 million times. It was also shared and commented on by JK Rowling, of course, the creator behind Harry Potter. Look at this sweet girl. Her name is Noya Dawn. She was 12 years old and she was on the autism spectrum. According to her family, Israeli defense forces found her body off

alongside her grandmother close to the Gaza border. She had gone to her grandmother's that day for a sleepover. Before Noya was taken, her mother says she left a voicemail on her phone. Noya described hearing loud explosions. All the windows in grandma's house are broken at the entrance because there was another boom. Noya could be heard saying in Hebrew before moaning the word, mommy. Oh my God. That's a lot. That's a lot. These are, Victor, these stories are so heart-wrenching, but they're important to tell, right? Because it's like so easy to get into, we're not getting involved. This is somebody else's, people go, I know you can't be too emotional because you have to make rational decisions, but you have to remind yourself of what Hamas did in order to get a perspective.

You do. I wish the people on my campus and other campuses would just take a deep breath and say Gaza was independent. It was autonomous since 2006. It had hundreds of billions of dollars pour in from the Arab Gulf, from Europe, from us, from the UN. It had every opportunity to create Singapore. And in its own charter, it said it would never do that. It was pledged destroying Israel. And then even some of the Hamas people, in a very cynical snide way, that were in gutter of all places, safe and affluent, were not going to make us Singapore. We never thought we fooled the Jews into thinking that we were concentrating on domestic affairs when we weren't. We've been playing this ha-ha for a year.

And how does that translate? It translates into killing people, little girls mutilating. And I wish those protesters would think that when they say the things they do, Palestine to the sea and this and that colony, they're talking about at a time of peace, an autonomous Gaza Strip sent gunmen in to butcher and kill innocent civilians at a holiday and partly at a rock concert, a rave. So they knew people would be innocent and unarmed and young. And then they took like as if they were Aztec captives going up to Temple Major to be sacrificed, they took captives with them back. It was the most horrific thing I'd ever seen. Yeah.

Or you saw or anybody had seen. You're talking about little girls like Noya. That's what you're talking about, little girls like Noya. You're talking about murdering little girls like Noya when you chant that slogan and say your terrible things and and little girls just like her who are right now in hamas custody whose pictures are posted even all over the united states just in a an act of desperation to find them how do you stop that and people tearing them down people tearing down that the hostage post is and how do they how do you stop people from doing that and don't tell

me you do it by withdrawing from gaza and giving them aid and another hundred million because we've done that and all all people have to do is read the 1988 hamas charter and it's all there and look i think the only good guy this guy right here, just FYI, this is the Miami dentist, right? That this guy's a Miami dentist, Ahmad El-Koussa on the left. The other guy is Zave Ramul on the right. Ramul is an Instagram model. Ahmed is a dentist pulling down the pictures of the missing. And we've been updated today.

Ahmed is no longer working at the dental office. Well, good, good. Thrilled he lost his job. He's heartless. How would you like to send a Jewish patient into his dental chair? My God. And Victor, another update on a lunatic on the left,

this Mika Tosca, associate professor at the School of the Art Institute of Chicago, one of the best respected design institutes in America. She tweeted out or Instagrammed out an apology for a post she made yesterday. Now, just give you a flavor of her apology. Yesterday, I wrote some things on my Instagram story that I unequivocally reject, and I do not stand behind. I'm deeply sorry for writing what I wrote and for hurting many people with my words. And I'm especially sorry to Israeli people that I broadly placed at fault for the war. You didn't deserve that. I was wrong. I know my words perpetuated

harmful stereotypes. I allowed my reaction to the violence in Israel and Palestine, my reaction to the violence in Israel. Okay, really? And Palestine to take an inappropriate and offensive form. So what did she post yesterday? Did she post free Palestine? You know, I'm on team Hamas, which would have been bad enough. No, no. What she posted was. This is the day before Israelis are pigs, savages, very, very bad people, irredeemable excrement the propaganda has been downright evil after the past week if your eyes aren't open to the crimes against humanity that israel's been committing and has committed for decades and will continue to then i suggest you open them it's disgusting and grotesque may they all rot in hell well she's really sorry for the words she used she was just a little angry and upset about the violence i guess against the israelis in addition to addition to the Palestinians. Doesn't really sound that way. No, my reactions are two full one. The apology came because she was facing some consequences and they think they have a blank check. And whenever they have the slightest bit of pushback, they go hysterical and kind of go

full juicy, small victim status. That's what she did. Somebody and nobody had ever said anything. This is what's going to happen to you, she would have never apologized. My other concern is, I know you've talked about it, what is this phenomenon where we have people from Syria and Iraq and Afghanistan and Egypt and Jordan and Gaza and Palestine, and they are suffering under dictatorship, corruption, sexism, homophobia, you name it, death and destruction. And they come as refugees over to the United States and they get, as they expect, security, freedom, prosperity, first generation, even second generation. And they use that platform and that success and that blanket of security

to do what? To champion the very systems and the very tight paradigms that they fled from. So here they have all these people in the safety of America, who was a very generous host, and invited them or let them come in here. And what are they doing? They're saying, great for the Hamas dictatorship, wonderful for the Palestinian autocracy. Great, great, great. But I don't want to ever go back there. And I do not ever want to praise the conditions that made it very nice for me. I would never do that.

So I want both ways. And I think at some point we're going to have to say, you know what? The best thing that Donald Trump ever did was slap a travel ban on about eight countries that sponsor terrorism. And we don't have to give you a visa. We do not have to give you a student visa. And we should take a hard look because we don't want that type of hatred imported here and that hypocrisy to use our magnanimity to espouse hatred. I think Americans are... Marco Rubio has been out there saying, and Ron DeSantis was on our show the other day, saying if these protesters, so-called protesters, are here protesting in favor of Hamas and they're on student visas,

goodbye. They're being yanked. Go home to the countries you seem to love so much. Enjoy your time there. Victor Davis Hanson, the one and only. Thank you so much for being here.

Thank you for having me, Megan. Love today's show. I hope you loved it too. Victor was amazing. Bethany and Carol too. Need to be having these conversations. More to come tomorrow. Thanks for joining us today and all week. We'll talk more tomorrow. Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.