The Megyn Kelly Show - Kardashian Narcissism, Kanye's Anti-Semitism, and Nuclear "Armageddon," with The Fifth Column Hosts | Ep. 409

Episode Date: October 11, 2022

Megyn Kelly is joined by Kmele Foster, Michael Moynihan, and Matt Welch, hosts of The Fifth Column podcast, to talk about fallout on social media from Kanye West's anti-Semitism, the dearth of famous conservatives, Kim Kardashian's narcissism and making her kids public figures, whether the Kardashians are a force for good or evil, who is at the heart of selfie culture, Meghan Markle's new way of being a victim by being called "crazy," Biden's irresponsible comments about nuclear "armageddon," the state of the Russia-Ukraine war, Randi Weingarten going to Ukraine for some reason, Tulsi Gabbard leaving the Democratic party, the emergence of a third political party, Biden and the state of the Dems, the decline of an American work ethic, the latest appeal to get young Black people to vote through a "vucking" song, the Pumpkin Spice Latte, and more.Follow The Megyn Kelly Show on all social platforms: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/MegynKellyTwitter: http://Twitter.com/MegynKellyShowInstagram: http://Instagram.com/MegynKellyShowFacebook: http://Facebook.com/MegynKellyShow Find out more information at: https://www.devilmaycaremedia.com/megynkellyshow

Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations. Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show. There is a lot of news to get to today and we have the perfect team to help us cover it all. The guys from the fifth column are here today. Among the topics we're going to tackle, Tulsi Gabbard officially leaves the Democratic Party, torching them on the way out, calling them an elitist cabal of warmongers and cowards who try to divide us racially. I think the party will get the message. Oh, I'm sure. And an MSNBC host makes a stunningly racist claim, arguing that Tua's recent concussion problem, you know,

on the Miami Dolphins, proves the NFL is racist against black people. The only problem is Tua's not black. She's not black. Hello, you dumbass Tiffany Cross. She's the most racist person on television. It's amazing. Maybe she just doesn't see color. Anyway, he's not black, but according to her, he is. Oh, and by the way, his coach isn't white either. Cannot make it up. All this plus a Pfizer executive makes an admission that should be the final death blow to any mandatory vaccine requirements.

It's all on camera. Joining me now to cover it all are friends from the Fifth Column podcast, Michael Moynihan, a correspondent for Vice News Tonight, Matt Welsh, editor-at-large for Reason magazine. Love that, Reason. And Camille Foster of Freethink Media. Guys, welcome back to the show. Hello, Megan. Oh my God. I'm sorry. I wasn't planning on starting with this moron Tiffany Cross, but it to the show. Hello, Megan. Oh my God.

I'm sorry. I wasn't planning on starting with this moron Tiffany Cross, but it's so good. Wait, I think we have the soundbite. Do we have the soundbite team? Okay, listen. Yes, it's SOT11. This is her railing on the mistreatment of Tua, with which I agree. I don't think the NFL has treated treated tua or a lot of these players right

it's just one problem with her analysis uh standby do we have it sat 11 i gotta say mike the optics just look bad to see all these black men crashing into each other with a bunch of white owners white coaches and the complete disregard of black bodies and black life mean, it just represents a larger issue. This was in the context of Tua, but Tua's not black. He's Samoan and his coach is mixed race. White, had a white parent, a black parent. So anyway, he's not white. I guess in Tiffany's world, that's white. But in any event, this person sees everything,

everything through a it's racist prism. What do you guys make of it? Yeah. I mean, anyone who's like watched, I presume you guys deferred to me because I actually watched the game. And look, anyone who knows anything about the NFL is aware of the issues around concussions and has seen players kind of sacrifice themselves to stay on the field in circumstances that seem kind of less than safe and disconcerting. It's worth having conversations about all of that, but this is just another quintessential perhaps example of how you inject race into absolutely everything and you completely discombobulate the conversation about what actually matters here.

What we should be talking about is whether or not the health and safety protocols are at all sufficient to help keep players safe in these circumstances. We should be talking about the fact that it's not just head injuries. J.J. Watt, who's a defensive end for, I think, the Cardinals, had a similar sort of drama where he had a heart issue and then went out and played about a week later. There are plenty of things that we could be talking about with respect to the NFL, but Tiffany Cross, in so many circumstances, seemed to only be able to think about one thing and one thing only in every single situation, and that is race. And here she kind of stumbles into it in a way that makes her look absolutely ridiculous, since the gentleman that she's talking about

does not identify as Black. He identifies as Samoan. But even if he were black, she wouldn't have a point here. There is no reason whatsoever to make this. Well, exactly. Camille, she makes it sound like the white man who was not white, the mixed race coach, just went out and found a bunch of black bodies and started making them bang into each other. It's also known as sports like and by the way not all football players are black um and they're all out there because it's a lifelong dream for i think every single one of them they want to be there they're begging to be there and they're getting very well paid for it doesn't mean the safety protocols are perfect

but she makes it sound like literally like a form of slavery. It's back to the Colin Kaepernick documentary of how this is just a modern day form of slavery. Yeah, it makes zero sense. People who are excited about concussions and NFL rules would be advised to go watch a game from the 1970s. Back when people were getting paralyzed on the field the field i mean it was just a brutal game even i was i saw on twitter today someone showed a uh a clip of like tom brady's rookie year and it's so many decades ago at this point it's different sport than it is now the type of hits that were allowed on his white body yeah does he self-identify as white as a whitey uh he's a white um but the kind of the kind of hits that were allowed and back then

there weren't as many uh black quarterbacks and what as many black uh coaches to the extent that blackness is real you know i'm sorry um and uh and yeah it's just a different sport. And I'm not sure what we gain by racializing the progress of rules over time. Do you racialize? Like if you ever watch the NHL and there's like a fight because that's the best part of NHL. You're like, oh, God, look at the white bodies going after each other. Northern European Finnish bodies. This, by the way, is the most offensive thing, is that we really have to retire this idea that using the word bodies is somehow poetic and smart. Yes.

They're just evil. It makes them sound like they're some sort of lab experiment. They're doing it on the body. Fucking football players. I mean, come on. That's the other thing. Can we also say this one thing? I don't.

I mean, I'm with both of these guys on this and the protocols of this, you can cut down on it, but at the same time, it is football. And that is what people have chosen to do as their profession. They are paid very handsomely for it. I don't want to see anyone get injured. I don't want to see anyone have any long-term effects like that, you know, make them go crazy and become suicidal and all the side effects that we know about. But it's like MMA is the same way. You have a boxing referee who calls the fight because it's bad. You see what happens to boxers over time. Jerry Cooney, for example, Leon Spinks. I mean, it's part of the sport and there's only so much you can do. And so the focus on that is great. But somehow racializing it shows you the obsession with this stuff in the fact that people who talk about it all the time must look for it

and find it all the time to justify their even when it's not there even when it's not there i mean honestly like even to his name it sounds samoan like she should have done like a modicum of research would have red flagged her that this might not be your target. Wait, wait. Another target for you someplace, Tiffany, I'm sure. But I agree with you fully on the point about bodies, the use of bodies. We're hearing that more and more.

Black bodies must be centered in the football discussion. Is that language? Is that English? Centering bodies? Good Lord. Also in the news today um kanye west and i'm so fascinated to talk to you guys about this because i ended friday's show after tucker's first first interview with him you know he broke it into two parts by saying i don't understand half of what kanye says like i just why i just sit there sort of like the dog with the cocked head.

Like I don't totally get it. I don't, I'm not sure if I'm too dense or I'm just not a creative thinker the way he is. You know, I'm this linear thinker, you know, legit logics and reasoning types of person. I'm smarter than i just made myself sound he's a creative genius i get that i get that so i just sort of thank you thank you for acknowledging that yeah i'm too dumb to understand you know what he's trying to say

and then i mean you know and then we had more comments over the weekend where i was like am i still too dense to get it like i so just to just to get the audience up to speed on what the latest controversy is and i'm sure you've heard it by now but just in case um he's being accused of being an anti-semite or having made anti-semitic comments by the way two headlines on my the first page of my outline for you guys are Kanye West, anti-Semite or in a mental breakdown? Joe Biden, nuclear warmonger or in a mental breakdown? It's the same thing. Okay, so back to Kanye. On Friday, he went on Instagram and got into a dust up with Diddy, the artist formerly known as P. Diddy, Puff Daddy, whatever.

And he said to Diddy, Diddy challenged him on his all White Lives Matter shirt and told Wes to, quote, stop playing these internet games. Then Kanye responded, this ain't a game. I'm going to use you as an example to show the Jewish people that told you to call me that no one can threaten or influence me. Then he was kicked off Instagram. All right. So he was kicked right off of Instagram for that. Then he goes back on Twitter for the first time in two and a half years because he's apparently, I don't know.

I don't think he was banned. I think he just hadn't been using it. And yeah, he just hasn't been using it. And he tweets out, I'm a bit sleepy tonight, but when I wake up, I'm going DEATH death con three on and then in all caps jewish people the funny thing is i actually can't be what are you saying my hand i the funny thing is i actually can't be anti-semitic because black people are actually jew also you guys have toyed with me and tried to blackball anyone

whoever opposes your agenda. And he was promptly locked out of Twitter. So no more Insta, no more Twitter, at least for now. You know, I didn't know what to expect of his staunchest defenders. Like, I wasn't exactly sure how you defend that, you know, where people are going to go.

I'll read you someone I think is an honest broker. Jason Whitlock took a shot at it. Not sure Jason has solved the problem, but this is what he says. Kanye West and Dave Chappelle. Is there a pattern? The industry wants both of them canceled. So far, he's right.

Black rappers and comedians are free to denigrate black people and white men a million different ways. But there's a line they better not cross and everybody knows it and i actually did think when he wrote that you know and women too right you can say whatever the bitches and hoes and whatever they want to say about women is fine but like he's trying to make a point when you when you bring jewish people into it it's a different story all right i'm feeling uncomfortable then added, you can't question black entertainers unhealthy relationship with non-religious Jewish power brokers in Hollywood. Is that clear enough for you? And again, I'm like, I don't know. What do you guys think? There's nothing better than coming at somebody who is accused of making an anti-Semitic comment with one of your own. That's actually what that is. Yeah, I mean, that is demented. I mean, both of them are demented. I think that, you know, Kanye is obviously, and we've all been talking about this quite a bit, and Camille is a big booster of Kanye as a musician. I would say as a thinker, because all of us talked about

the general incoherence of the Tucker interview with moments of lucidity, but they're also just like, oh, okay, that's just a normal comment that he made. On the Jewish thing, I mean, this is...

The Jewish question. Yeah. No. This is like, this is definitely anti-Semitic, I have to say. When you're talking about Jewish power, as if there's some sort of uniform, kind of maybe a protocol of an elder of Zion that actually makes these things. I mean, it is a classically anti-Semitic trope that Hollywood is controlled by Jews.

Not that there's disproportionate numbers of Jewish people in Hollywood, that it's controlled, which is a different kind of idea, and that they are coming after me or us through this cutout of P. Diddy, or whatever it's called now. Diddy, sorry, I'm sorry. And he is like kind of the Jews of the puppet master. It's so bizarre and controlling. It's like, well, you can't actually say anything about Jewish power. It's like, well, you can say things about individual people who are Jewish. I don't believe that their Jewishness has any bearing on what they're doing. I don't think this is part of some Jewish conspiracy. It's demented, bonkers, and wrong. And I think people who actually go to this point, what they're doing is they're saying, I mean, I saw that Candace Owen said something similar. They're taking a line, which is understandable in the broadest sense about

identity politics. We can't talk about this. We can talk about that. I get that instinct, but here it's not applicable because why it's not applicable is you're talking about a group and assigning a sinister agenda to a group. That is insane. If you said, you know, white people are trying to do X or Y, we call that out on the fifth column. And I think that you hear it on this show too, is that if you say Jews are doing this, also bad, but probably worse because of a very, very dark history of people making those comments about about jewish control as a minority like the minority jews are controlling the majority it's a really dark uh dark uh argument to make and it's also well and i know that you i don't know i don't know how to say defended but offered

another piece to the story of um of central park karen uh amy cooper right i think that was her name right um you well not the central park karen park but yes amy cooper yeah no sorry that's how people know her i know it's i feel bad for the people call her that but that's some people know she had that confrontation with the angry bird watcher who got all you know upset and so on and became very viral and um you told the other side was the guy had a long history of harassing dog owners in the park and he had threatened had indeed threatened not just amy's dog but other people's dogs in the past and blah blah so the the problem i had with amy cooper and i and you and i talked about this before was was not that she said i'm gonna call the cops and tell them

that you're threatening me because he was it was the fact that she said to him before she called the cops she was going to mention his race she said i'm going to tell them that a black man is threatening me that's where she went off the rails. If she had just called 911 and said, he's a black man, he's 6'2", he's in the bramble, you know, like that's one thing. And I think that's the problem with Kanye's comments too. It's not just like you're being controlled by a bunch of Hollywood power brokers and then he names them and they all happen to be Jewish. He's like saying, I'm going after the Jews. I mean, like, it's

different. It's like, it's more in the, you know, I'm going to make your race or your ethnicity or your religious views an issue. Yeah, look, I'll set the Amy Cooper stuff aside for a moment and just talk about Kanye here. And I think it's important to acknowledge here that when Tucker sat down with Kanye, the knock on the interview was, why is anyone talking to Kanye? He's crazy. And then Kanye says something that seems kind of crazy. He tweets it anyways. And it is kind of incoherent and seems a bit anti-Semitic. And everyone's like, well, we need to condemn that immediately. Wait a minute. Are we supposed to be not listening to this guy because he's crazy? or he's supposed to be condemning everything he says, because we presume that there's kind of this precise, racially motivated attack. And I should say, cards on the table, as I'm kind of seeing my visages on the screen here, and I know that over my shoulder is Kanye's discography. I'm a big fan of Kanye West. It's on the wall. I mean, I even have a Kanye bobblehead. Like that's Kanye West. I'm a big fan of Kanye West's music. But that said, like most artists

aren't going to be brilliant intellectuals that have worldly knowledge about a range of important topics. Kanye's lyrics have always included kind of conspiratorial, like nutty stuff about the government administering AIDS for the purposes of killing Black people. And even in that Tucker interview, when he talked about obesity and how we have kind of romanticized it, how there are people who won't be honest about

the fact that if you are morbidly obese, this could kill you. He says that the reason why this is happening is because there's a conspiracy to kill Black people, a conspiracy which he is attributing to white people. It's the same sort of preposterous language. And I would agree with you, Megan. It is broadly reprehensible that we traffic in this sort of stuff, but there is a sincere, fair point to be made that we actually do give people a pass to use this kind of categorical totalizing language and even to engage in that kind of bizarre conspiratorial musing when it comes to white supremacy and whiteness broadly. And we don't allow that when it comes to Jewish

people. I would say that that's probably the appropriate standard for us to regard that kind of race mongering for what it is, whether it's Tiffany Cross or it's Kanye West, we say that's repugnant. That's something that people shouldn't be engaged in. I think some of the selective outrage about these things, and I do understand the unique history of talking about Jewish people as puppet masters, that is gross and despicable. I think there's also a very high probability that Kanye West isn't familiar with that. Again, Jewish, Black people are Jews. What are you talking about exactly? Is that like the guys who are in Times Square? How can you take him seriously when he's talking about this? I love the music. I appreciate much of the fashion, but his insights on politics, I shelf them right next to like Bruce Springsteen's.

I do not give a crap about political issues. Isn't this the danger with conservatives sometimes? And somebody, a listener to our show who sent us a message and was like, as a conservative, what do you pick? Kanye West or Kevin Sorbo? I mean, that's okay, right? I mean, you have, you don't. There's like, I'm sure he's a nice guy. Nice guy, I'm sure he's lovely. or Kevin Sorbo? I mean, that's the thing, right? I mean, you have... I'm sure he's a nice guy.

Nice guy. I'm sure he's lovely. I don't know what he's in. But there's kind of dearth of conservative famous people, and particularly in the world of culture. And people get excited. They're like, ah, Kanye. And then he says things that about 40% of it is completely incoherent.

Like, all right, that's fine. Just forget about that. He said something about romanticizing obesity and Lizzo. And he also said it was demonic uh so i don't know if he was on the same demonic conspiracy to kill black people yeah indiana i think the indiana attorney general or some indiana republican politician yes after the absolutely bonkers anti-semitic statement is like you know the media they're just going after the truth who are the media matt ask yourself this i uh i am someone who doesn't joke people doesn't want to necessarily uh sentence people to be in intensive therapy with dr eugene landy

i think there's i think there's a bad history of that. He was the very controversial, crazy psychotherapist who more or less imprisoned Brian Wilson for about seven, eight years there in the late 70s and early 80s. But Brian Wilson was a seriously drug-addicted schizophrenic whose brain was broken by a bunch of different things. And he was sort of taken out of himself for intensive therapy. Someone needs to put Kanye back on the no Twitter diet. I mean, there's something that is gross about kind of exploiting mental illness for whatever reason. It makes it a little bit strange because both in the case of Kanye West and Brian Wilson, who aren't the same people, but they're both super artistic geniuses.

And it's possible that some of the Wellspring overlaps there, but it's also truthful that it's awkward as hell. There was just a new Brian Wilson documentary that came out that he participated in and was, I think, executive producer on um that came out last year and it's just really awful to watch because he's like a child um and and schizophrenic and he's sort of um he's exploiting himself in this sense um and i don't like to watch it and it's like that with with uh kanye i don't i i love his music to the extent that i'm exposed to it and um but i don't really want to see him talk ever again, unless it's at a hurricane Katrina fundraiser.

I'll just say one thing. There's one thing he said. He told Tucker that it hurts, quote, hurts his feelings when people suggest he's in the midst of a mental breakdown when he says these controversial things or when they accuse him of being like bipolar. And this is what's driving his commentary

i mean he i think he himself admitted that he has bipolar disorder yeah um in 2019 so that is a thing for him now i don't i don't know enough about bipolar disorder to know i mean my under my layperson understanding is you have manic swings and depressive swings and i don't know that you're that you say things you don't believe in, in one of those phases. You know what I mean? It doesn't, doesn't make you say things you don't actually believe in. It just makes, it changes your mood, changes your approach, your conversation, your energy level, and you know, your thoughts about life and what matters. Um, but either way, I think you're hitting the nail on the head with like, this is

how I felt about him on Friday before he said any of this stuff. My mind cannot connect with his mind. My mind doesn't work anything like the way his mind works. And so I really kind of have given up trying to understand him. You know, like I don't I don't get it. But I do think you can sort of appreciate this creative genius in our society and understand some of his eccentricities are connected to those gifts. It's kind of like, forgive me, but like Michael Jackson, you know, or even like a Tom Cruise, you know, the Scientology stuff. These people get so big

and they do have massive creative streaks that I certainly don't have. And there's something that changes them as a result of that and the huge success and the huge fame that follows. Yeah, I think that's right. Listeners, just as a very brief, Camille talk is that our friends, frequent guests, and I know his father has been on this show, Megan, Ben Dreyfuss had a great tweet thread yesterday about mental illness and Kanye and people said, you know, I know people with mental illness and it doesn't make them all of a sudden anti-Semitic. Ben is very open about the fact that he's been institutionalized in the past and has a very, very thoughtful thread about what bipolar and this sort of thing can do to one's brain and make you paranoid and make you

say things that you might not otherwise say when you're not in a medical episode. But I recommend people check that out because Ben- I like him and I actually follow Ben's Substack. I just haven't read it from yesterday. I was just recently looking at the one about Jon Stewart, which I thought was highly entertaining, where he wrote, Jon Stewart will not be president. He's not going to be president, so stop him and take a seat. Ben is always great. I'll say this. I don't think Kanye is crazy. He has acknowledged that he's bipolar. I don't think most of us are. None of us are designed for the sort of attention and adulation and criticism that people in a position like Kanye's endure. And I think it's easy to kind of chuck spears and to hurl ridicule at him, at Kim Kardashian, et cetera. They earn fortunes in many respects because they have such high profiles and the fortunes have kind of earned

them those profiles, but it's worth having some sympathy and some empathy. I remember when I first saw that Kanye was going to be on a Tucker show, my first thought was that this doesn't really seem like the sort of thing that I would want to do if I were producing a news show to take him and put him on broadcast television because a lot of the output on social media just didn't seem like a guy who was in a particularly great place. I mean, he was in the midst of having these really public, explosive arguments with people where he's denigrating them. He just broken up with Adidas and Gap in the weeks prior to that. And filmed it and posted it. Yeah, I don't know if unstable is the right phrase, but at a minimum, he is making the kind of decisions of great consequence in a way that if I were a friend of his and I was close to him, I to be taken and dribbled out over the course of two days. You need a vacation. Let's get out of here so we can collect our thoughts and then come

back to the public and continue your career. The whole thing was delivered in a different way than that. His messaging on Tucker was, I don't want to be told that anymore. He kind of painted himself as a victim of cancel culture in the way that so many people have been like I self censored. I wanted to say a lot more about my admiration for Trump and so on. And I didn't feel like I could because of my industry, because they were all against him and because I knew I'd be called crazy the other side, too, and dismissing, you know, his opinions that are out there, not necessarily loving Trump or not. I mean, a lot of people feel that that way as a function of his bipolar disorder. But I will take you on on this. I do not feel empathetic toward Kim Kardashian in general. I've been going on a tear over her for the past couple of days because every time I open my paper, there she is again. And I find it deeply alarming. Like, what are we celebrating? Her enormous fake ass, her extreme plastic surgery. No, no, no. She's not writing the stories, though.

She's not writing the stories. Oh, she is too. Stop it right now. writing the stories though she's not writing the stories i'll say oh she is too ready to stop it right now she is she's orchestrated every single one of the photographs you've ever seen there isn't one that was organic every single time the paparazzi has been called by her and lured to the location and then she shows the bottom and then she photoshots it and then she denies that she's done any of that shit and then little girls all over over America are like, oh, why isn't my bottom five times the size that it is without any surgery whatsoever? I must be inadequate.

And then you say, no, sweetheart, you're not. Every mother across America says, no, sweetheart, you're not. But they continue to see these absurd, obscene images of her. And then she's like, oh, you know, I'm sad that my my children's school was mentioned by Kanye. You're the one who puts them on camera at every turn. It wasn't enough that you exploited yourself and you put off your own sex tape. We all know it. And then pretended to be a victim about it.

But now you've got your kids at every public event. You put their faces on the camera almost as much as you put your own face on the camera to the point where your kids are trying to hide when you bring them to the fashion shows. They don't want to be public figures. So I don't feel sorry for her. Do you like Kim Kardashian? I just want to make sure that people understand that you're a fan of her work. My daughter, I actually watched the show

with my daughter who was like, can we watch it? And she's 11. And incidentally, she's never said, why is my ass not like that? Just in fairness. She thinks it. She thinks it. Yeah, she's a very good gymnast.

And that would be a difficult thing as a gymnast. But she watched it and made fun of them the entire time. So that's when I realized that I was not doing a terrible job as a parent because she watched this and was like, these people are absolutely ridiculous. I did once, by the way, it was assigned something for Newsweek and it's in an old issue of Newsweek where I watched the show. I had never seen it before and I made the mistake of telling an editorial meeting that I hadn't. So they made me go watch it and write about it. And I came to a slightly different conclusion. The first thing, by the way, is I got the neurovirus the day I started watching it. So I spent the entire time watching it and vomiting, which was absolutely perfect. And it's absolutely true, by the way.

And I watched the other one and I was like, you know, I mean, credit for being great business people, not great role models, Megan. I don't think they're great role models, but you know, I mean, people like it. I don't know what they're selling. I don't understand it. I don't pretend to understand it, but you know, and you know, she, she was good with Trump and, you know, getting some people out of prison, which, um, which I thought was total credit on Alison Marie Johnson. I do. I get that. And I'm not saying she's never done good things. And I, and I said that many times, but there's, there's Kim Kardashian, the person, and then there's Kim Kardashian, the brand, and the brand is dangerous. I'm telling you that the Kardashian brand is dangerous. It's done way

more harm than good to young girls across this country and continues to grow and become more influential. I mean, I will tell you, I've said this story in the air. My daughter and her little friend were in my bathroom with me one morning. I was getting ready and I was putting on my makeup. And the other little girl said, oh, is that is that by Kim Kardashian makeup? And I was like, when I gave her the side, I like, goes, who's Kim Kardashian? And I said to her, I do not wish to be the person who introduces this woman into your life. I really think that this group of people, and I don't think they have evil hearts. I want to say that again. It's different from some other bad guys in the news. But that brand has grown to the point where I think newspapers need to be really careful about splashing those photos all over the pages with impunity, because I do think we're setting

a terrible example for our young kids. I mean, I don't want to belabor this. I'll say this. I met Kim once, and her mom, actually. And I'll say this, like the conversation that we had was about like her work in criminal justice reform. It was about her efforts with programs like the Innocence Project. She's incredibly bright. There's a very real sense in which the sexualization

and all that other stuff, those are legitimate things that one could take issue with. But I think it's worth acknowledging that there are other ways that they could be covered. These women, this family, they're moguls. They've built businesses, legitimate businesses that don't have anything to do with those

kind of other things. They're brilliant marketers. Trust me, Camille. I know the family. I went out there and interviewed all of them. And I did my homework before I did that, as I do with everything. And they are marketing masters. And I get it.

They're in the beauty business which is something they have built an empire but they've built an empire based on absolutely nothing no talent it started with her sex tape which her own mother according to the man in the document the the film with her i've seen it yeah put out there with their consent no i mean i've seen ray j talk about it take it easy i saw J talk about it. Take it easy. I saw him talk about it. I don't watch that kind of thing. What you do on your own time is up to you.

Absolutely. The patriarchy is not working because Ray J did not get famous from that. I still don't know who he is. Well, Ray J was already a little famous. He was more famous than her at the time that was made. But I think that's another point. Their marketing, and it's, again,

all of the general criticism about the sex tape, about the over-sexualization, et cetera, all fair. But there are plenty of people who make sex tapes and plenty of people who might be physically attractive who haven't been able to eke out the kind of success that they have. It's kind of an extraordinary only in America story for better or worse. And what it says about America might not be terribly nice, but I don't think that's their fault. I mean, there's a very kind of long history of this sort of thing, whether it's Marilyn Monroe or Kim Kardashian. Bridget Phetasy said, blame the game, not the players. And I really thought about it.

It was just last week. I blame both. I really did. The game is wrong and the players are wrong. The players do not get excused for being disgusting players. Go ahead, Camille. last week i blame both i mean i i really did the game is wrong and the players are wrong the player the players do not get excused for being disgusting players go ahead camille no i'll say fair fair i you know i get i get the point and and also you know i said that positive things about their business acumen um there's just negative things to be said about it too i mean kim kardashian was just fined over a million and a half dollars. Yeah. Boosting crypto. For being a tax cheat.

Yeah. And there's been a bunch of things, you know, those like credit card stuff and apps that kind of charge parents. And so they've been involved in some dodgy stuff, too. But the thing to think about with them is, you know, did they usher in an era or was this an era because of technology that was inevitable? Because right now, if you talk to young people, the Kardashians are they know who they are. They don't care about them too much. And there's a whole bunch of new people on TikTok in particular that they're obsessed with. And like I talked to a bunch of like young girls about this stuff for a piece that I did. And they're like, oh, this guy and he's got 25. I'm like, I've never heard of any of these people. These kind of like, like, they're not even micro celebrities, because they're macro celebrities. They have unbelievable followers. And it's all

those are the women who came after that. Yes. No, that's what I'm wondering. Would that have happened anyway? Because of technology? I don't know. I don't know. But these women have 100 million followers on Instagram, probably more. That was back when I interviewed them as 17 or 18. I mean, I'm sure it's greater than that now. And I'm sure a lot of them are bought and paid for and all that. But still, the numbers got to be huge if it's up at those levels. And they are at the heart of selfie culture. When you see these girls going out to lunch with each other and instead of just enjoying each other across the table, they're taking their own picture in 50 different ways instead of watching the sports game or the movie or the band. They're making it about themselves and doing their stupid fake poses. I blame the Kardashians. Not entirely, but hugely. They had a huge role in it. They're all about selfies and the way they look, an extreme, inappropriate, false vanity. It drives me insane. They're a force for evil in the country. Who's the antidote? I mentioned the Queen of England the other day. Where is the distinguished, smart, fierce, patriotic

businesswoman who we can point to as the anti-Kardashian. We don't have that. We don't revere women like that in this country. We take the big ass, big boobed women and we give them a total pass for what they've done to the children. If they manage to get a great woman like Alice Marie Johnson out of jail, by the way, Kim Kardashian did not do that herself. OK, there were a lot of other people. No, not on her own. She would. She called attention to it to it i think so that was that was a blessing i agree that was a good thing she did it was a mitzvah but it doesn't come close to overshadowing all the other stuff that she's done to hurt other girls in particular the young ones all right i'm sorry belabor belabor

um that's the last word sorry i don't know why i didn't did you know that megan kelly was so angry at the kardashians it was like touching that nerve was the best thing that ever happened to me i knew i have one question for you megan i'm going to turn this around and pretend it's my show i was in a yogurt shop the other day it was like in august and i saw a woman uh front putting stuff on her yogurt and i said that woman looks vaguely familiar. And the person I was with said, that is Bethany Frankel. And I was like,

yeah, it was Bethany Frankel. And it's like, Oh, she's the real, like the OG real housewife. A lot of what you're describing is very much. Cause I've watched a few of those episodes.

It is exploitative. There's people throwing drinks at each other, like behave horribly and you'll become famous. There are people who matter. All the men are like these trollish, horrible men. And they're all married to like beautiful or once beautiful women who married them clearly for money.

It's a lot of bad messages for young people. Do you feel the same way about the fantastically entertaining Real Housewives? No, I don't. I don't. First of all, I think they have different audiences. I think the Kardashians

are for younger women and girls. And Real Housewives, they're fucking my age. I mean, it's like, they're for people like me who want to put on candy instead of sports on Sundays and just have a little mindless TV.

They haven't built enormous empires based on their fake boobs or fake bottoms, which they then deny are fake. Why are you pointing out the two best things about Kim Kardashian and then denouncing them? It's not good stuff. Forget the bad stuff. It's not bad. I don't know. I got to be honest.

Even if Kim Kardashian said it's fake, it's all fake, I'd respect her a little bit more, but I'd still say you're dangerous. Like, would you please focus on your criminal justice stuff? Which, you know, you could take issue with, too, depending on the person. But we focus on your law. Why don't you do something with that law degree, which you clearly just did as a vanity project to try to make yourself sound like you were a little smarter than you actually might be. She failed the bar three times. Don't get me started. All right. She could actually do something. She could actually be a force for good, but she chooses not to. And the whole line behind her, it's just like the Meghan Markle thing. Meghan Markle targeted Prince Harry. She wanted to be

a star. She rejected a couple of other British guys who weren't powerful enough. Then she was rejected by a bunch of them. How embarrassing for Prince Harry to have been the one who fell for it. What a dope. I mean, we had Tom Bauer on their show on Friday being like, Prince Harry's dumb. That's why he went for the one that, I don't know, all these other soccer stars rejected and so on. But they were conniving and they saw a means to stardom, to fame, to being self-centered for a living. And the same is true with Kim Kardashian, her sex tape. They're on parallel lines. And what's happened?

We've rewarded them. I will give Kardashian this. She's not constantly running around like a victim, like Meghan Markle now is, having gotten the crown. She wants us to feel sorry for her. That's the difference between the two. My God, I need to take a break. Do you have, can you take 10X at like 12, 30 or is that fine? for her. That's the difference between the two. My God, I need to take a break.

Can you take Xanax at like 12, 30 or is that fine? Megan Markle, I'll say this, she is the worst person in America and I just want her to be and like she didn't succeed. She's never gotten anyone out of jail. And the Kardashians, whatever you think of them, succeeded on their own. She succeeded by marrying the ginger guy

that used to wear a Nazi uniform. Yes! Well, he did. Literally. He did. And by the way, she's getting, unlike the Kardashians, who really come in for it on this show,

she gets a pretty rough ride in the media, appropriately so, too, because, yeah, not a fan of the Markle. I'm just giving you a chance well and she's going to after this break as well because i got something to say on her latest podcast stand by we're with the host of the fifth column right after this wow we're at some point we're going to talk about russia stand by so megan markle's podcast uh another episode today, and this is really just a series of attempted victimizations, like women who are very successful, who she wants to repaint as a victim from Mariah Carey to Serena Williams to herself. Of course, always herself. And today, what she's upset about is how women are sometimes called crazy.

And I will acknowledge that it is a typical thing when you're trying to discredit any woman. There's a saying, nuts are sluts. They're either nuts or sluts, right? And so if you can't say she's a slut, you find a way to say she's a nut. Now, that is definitely a tactic that is used by some people. But that doesn't mean that we need to get rid of the term crazy to describe women, because guess what? We use it to describe men all the time, as I believe we just spent about 25 minutes discussing the Kanye critics and his frustrations, right? So it does happen to men and to women. But you would think if you listen to this podcast, my God, that women, we were still in 1870. We listen to the way, like how hard we have it as women,

when as Asian women, as black women, as, as crazy women. And here's just a bit of how she sounded today. Raise your hand if you've ever been called crazy or hysterical. The guys are raising their hands. Nuts, insane, out of your mind, completely irrational. Okay, you get the point. Now, if we were all in this same room and could see each other, I think it would be pretty easy to see just how many of us have our hands up. By the way, me too. And it's no wonder when you consider just how prevalent these labels are in our culture. Everything is an attempt to sound profound and deep and knowledgeable and wise from all her years of doing absolutely nothing to try to explain to us the other greatest offense she's managed to stumble on that she needs to solve.

Can I just say, you know what? You know who called me crazy repeatedly? Donald Trump during that whole dust up that we had. You know what I did in response? Absolutely nothing. I let it roll off my back and I was fine. And it wasn't a thing. And I didn't go on to do podcast after podcast on how I'd been victimized by being called crazy.

This woman, my God. She trolls the comment sections of the internet, finds the most offensive one, and then makes it into a podcast. Anyway, you guys too, you've suffered, you've been called crazy.

Raise your hand for the audience now. I mean, I'm going to put it up really loud and proud. Nutty and slutty. It's an accurate description. So, I mean, if you care about journalistic truth, then we have to call it that. What I love about it, besides her, you know, elementary school librarian voice that she was using there, is that that was written out.

Yeah. That was absolutely, that was the worst prevalence. Prevalence, I will bet all my life savings was written for her as she was attempting to sound like she was having a conversation with fellow women sufferers and things. Jesus Christ, everybody suffers. The REM taught us in 1994 that everybody hurts. Everybody hurts. We are not just in the 1%. We're in the 0.1% in the world of fortune. And she is in the 0.001%. But that's the point, right? And to Megan's comment that everybody is coming on this show

as somebody who has been abused or suffered or the victim of an ism. And I look at that as one of the great vindications of America. It's a great patriotic point where if you go around the world, people who have been victims of things have nothing, don't have potable drinking water, don't have money, are put in jail for having opinions or for being a certain race or a certain ethnicity or a certain religion. Whereas Meghan Markle doesn't realize from her billion dollar place in Montecito, she's interviewing the downtrodden other millionaires that are around her. And I don't know if you saw Sharon Osbourne had this hilarious comment that Meghan Markle has one talent. She just wants to be around rich people. And you have to be at

a certain level of wealth. And that is hilarious when you think of the fact that she's talking incessantly about people who have been wounded by society, but they all seem to have an enormous amount of money. Not a bad society to live in. The second thing is I wanted to point out that I watched a video the other day, and your listeners and viewers can find this, from Emily Ratat ratatowski the one that's uh extremely attractive yeah yeah and really dumb but who thinks she's really smart and she had this uh like selfie video god is it fair god it was amazing and she was like i heard about but i haven't watched that maryland room movie called blonde and i'm really tired and she hasn't watched it she's telling you this I'm really tired of Hollywood um um Vic like doing things to women's pain to make it like monetizable and she's like

I own my pain and I'm like what is this woman even talking about you're like the hottest woman on earth like literally people give you tons of money and you have no talent you just were born with amazing assets and she's like doing this thing about how awful it is. And we are in this moment where if you talk like this about pain and being called crazy, it's just utter nonsense. You don't need any data. There doesn't need to be a study to back it up. And everyone's like, that is really brave, Emily and Megan and Montecito. That's right.

And again. Everyone I know has been called crazy. Everyone. Sometimes they are. That's the thing. again, everyone, everyone. Sometimes they are. That's the thing. Yes, I've dated most of them. Well, so this she would take issue.

This is going to wind up in her next podcast, this clip right here. Because look what she singles out. Deb, this is the last of the three clips. Look what she singles out as examples of how out of control our society is on women. I feel like you guys think that we like choose to be crazy. You know, it's an active choice. A girl is allowed to be crazy as long as she is equally hot. Thus, if she's this crazy, she has to be this hot.

I don't think that men can control crazy women. Carla, I cannot hide the crazy a minute longer. I'm just this big mountain of cuckoos is about to erupt and spew molten crazy all over him and he's going to die like this. She doesn't trust you. That is crazy. Let me tell you why. The use of these labels has been drilled into us from movies and TV, from friends and family, and even from random strangers. And the fact is, no one wants this label. Oh my Lord. How I Met Your Mother, Scrubs, et cetera, are on the evil list because they did this and they had women saying it about themselves. They had men saying it to women.

Those are all comedies, by the way. So it's like, yeah. It's a joke. Yeah. She's not funny. Well, it's the practice helplessness that bothers me. I have a young daughter. I worry about her inculcating these values. She's not fun. It's the practice helplessness that bothers me. I have a young daughter. I worry about her inculcating these values.

She's not a victim. She shouldn't think about herself that way. And she's not a victim on account of her being a female. It's preposterous. You hear it, you release it, and you move on. And I will submit to the jury that if it stays in there and it really gets to you, maybe connecting with some reality. The things that bother you when it comes to bad insults are the things that resonate with you for some reason.

I'm not saying she's crazy, but she does go on to talk about her alleged suicide and how low she was and all that. Not suicide, but suicidal thoughts and how Harry had to rescue her. I mean, she's been on this for a while. Meanwhile, you go back and you look at her lifestyle website before she met Harry and it was like, life is grand. Okay. Pause. Be right back. Much, much more with the guys from the fifth column.

Like, are we about to go to nuclear war with Russia? So back to the hard news, and that is we may be going to nuclear war with Russia. Not really, but according to our president's loose language, he's throwing around possibilities like that like it's a nothing. I mean, haphazardly, this is not one of those things. It's OK to have the White House staff come back two days later and try to clean up. We need really clear and careful messaging from the commander in chief on things like nuclear war. And that memo clearly didn't get to our president, who said the following on Thursday about the possibility. No, OK, I've got a missile on camera, who said on Thursday that we are looking at possible Armageddon that we haven't seen. I want to get

the exact quote, but I don't have it in front of me, but that we haven't we haven't been this close to Armageddon since 1962. That's how we put it since 1962. Now, what happened in 1962? It was the Cuban Missile Crisis. All right. So we went back, took a little walk down memory lane and pulled some old news footage because it's always fun to see what was going on. In 1962, when John F. Kennedy was president and we had a showdown with the Soviets over them moving missiles into Cuba and pointing them at the United States. And that was the last very real possibility. There was the whole Cold War after that, where we actually thought we might be heading to nuclear war with Russia. Here's a little bit of that old news footage. For some days before the presidential announcement,

lights had burned late in key Washington offices, as those most vitally involved in the nation's defense and security made ready to deal with the crisis. Well in advance, the Strategic Air Command had been put on super alert. Global disbursement and redeployment, increased in-flight readiness. Polaris subs, each with 16 nuclear missiles, would give added force to our announcement when it came. During the week preceding the President's speech, the Tactical Air Command had quietly repositioned thousands of men, tons of equipment, large numbers of fighter reconnaissance and troop carrier

aircraft, mostly in Florida. I love that old news footage. Can't get enough of that stuff. Managed to avoid nuclear war back then because while Kennedy was advised to carry out an airstrike on Cuban soil in order to compromise Soviet missile supplies, followed by an invasion of the Cuban mainland. He chose instead a less aggressive course of action in order to avoid a declaration of war, using a naval quarantine to prevent further missiles from reaching Cuba. And then tense negotiations followed in which he and the Soviets decided to de-escalate Khrushchev. And basically, the Soviets would dismantle their offensive weapons in Cuba and return to the Soviet Union, and we would pull back and say we would never invade Cuba again. This is after Bay of Pigs.

So in any event, it was a very scary time for Americans. And Joe Biden comes out, here's the exact quote on Thursday, and and says Putin was not joking about potentially using, quote, tactical nuclear weapons or biological or chemical weapons because his military is, you might say, significantly underperforming. End quote. He goes on, quote, We have not faced the prospect of Armageddon since Kennedy and the Cuban missile crisis. We have a direct threat of the use of nuclear weapons if, in fact, things continue down the path they are going. This is, I think, not okay. What do you guys make of it? Not okay. Reckless.

And said, I think, in a fundraiser. Am I wrong about that? Was it James Murdoch's house? No, you're right. A fundraiser for that. But no, I mean, the parallel is stupid and wrong. Very different scenario. I mean, if you look back in 1962, there was things to negotiate, right? I mean, that ended because the Cubans pulled their missiles out, the Russians pulled their missiles out of Cuba, and we pulled missiles out of Turkey that were pointing at the Soviet Union. This is not a similar situation is that you have a country

that's been invaded in Ukraine, and the Russians are mad that they're losing. There's not a lot of negotiation that can happen here, particularly because Zelensky, and if you look at all the actually decent opinion polling that's happening in Ukraine, nobody in Ukraine really wants to negotiate this. They want to win, particularly because they are winning now. For the president to say that we, the guys, he's serious. That's not, that's very, very bad leadership and very bad diplomacy. Because what we probably know about this, and I imagine people in the DOD, and there's people who actually study this stuff and people within the military understand that this should be taken very seriously. You know, the Ukrainians are taking it seriously. They are handing out sort of anti-radiation pills to people, people who want them. But there's not a widespread panic. There's

not a panic in the United States. There's not a panic in Europe where that obviously those dust clouds would go like like happened in Chernobyl in the late 80s. Why is there not a lot of panic? Because I don't think people think, and rightfully so, that this is a logical option for these types of threats. You don't actually say, oh my God, he's serious. Armageddon, I mean, Armageddon is a word of panic. Do not say that to the American people that we're on the precipice of Armageddon. There is, you know, we can come back from this, but the only way of coming back from it is there's no negotiating with Putin on this, is this is what he wants, is that he wants to break the eight months that the Ukrainian spirit, if anything, has been emboldened by the psychopathic actions of the Russian military. He's trying to break the Europeans and the Americans. And of course, you know, President Biden is walking right into that trap. This doesn't sound very libertarian of you. I would

have expected you to say it's not our war. It's somebody else's conflict. You know, you know, because the people who are in libertarians who say this are disgraceful, who say that, you know, the people responsible for this war are anybody but the people in the Kremlin who invaded a sovereign country, brutalized their people. And as we've seen in the last couple of days, are punishing the fact that they actually, you know, have a better military. And yes, we are arming them and the Europeans are arming them, but they're doing quite amazing things with those arms because their homeland has been invaded. There's a kid from Novosibirsk does not want to be killed in Ukraine. The guy in Ukraine will die for his country. It's a very, very different thing. And now you have the terror bombing, like legitimate terrorism, definitionally terrorism, where the brave Russian military hit a playground yesterday, a university building, a bicycle bridge, things like that. The entire point, as Putin said, is revenge for the attack on the bridge connecting Crimea to the Russian mainland. And they're doing it by indiscriminately back against the wall, trying to terrorize the Ukrainian people. Anybody who believes that the Russians have, you know, or has some sort of sympathy for people who are doing this. And if you look at Bucha,

if you look at all of these war crimes that we've seen, massive, massive numbers of war crimes that we've seen, you know, I said on the show not too long ago, America had a very, very long conversation about what happened at Abu Ghraib. There's about 700 Abu Ghraibs a day in Ukraine. And I think people that were anti-war, anti-interventionist, anti-imperialist, however they want to say it, were very, very interested in all of those war crimes, right? I mean, the collateral murder video that was released by WikiLeaks, which is a helicopter gunship mistaking a Reuters journalists for having an RPG, and then lighting them up, as I believe that the helicopter pilot said. That really changed a lot for a lot of

people because it was a terrible thing to see. That stuff happens every day in Ukraine. I don't know why one can attack those things back in the day, maybe because it was George W. Bush that was the person believed to be perpetrating these things or was perpetrating these things, versus the Russians and we're on the other side of it no no the russians are 100 the right the kremlin is 100 responsible for this and make no mistakes is that if you allow this stuff to happen if you allow them to you know we don't have we're not in a position to negotiate other people's sovereignty so when people come and say well we have to come to a conclusion donald trump said this the other day we have to come no no ukrainians have said this the other day, we have to come to, no, no, no, Ukrainians have to,

we can assist them, we can advise them, we can help facilitate these things, but we cannot determine the fate of Ukraine. And for us to think we can, an anti-imperialist bunch of people would say, America's always putting its nose in everybody's business. Well, this is included. Do not tell the Ukrainians what to do with their future. They have done an amazing job of retaking an enormous amount of territory that was taken by the Russians. And I hope they take more and I hope they kick them out. And I hope they kick them out of even Crimea. It's it's a it's it's it's disgraceful as the rest. You know, but what's scary about it is I'll give you the floor, Matt. But what's scary about it is speaking of the Cuban the Cuban Missile Crisis, Kennedy got out of that. He got us out of that by realizing when your enemy's in a corner,

you've got to give them an off-ramp. Otherwise, the worst will happen. And they did. So he gave them an off-ramp and they took it. And we cut a deal that both sides liked and it led to a nice little period before the Cold War. But how do we facilitate an off ramp that would work for Ukraine that would work for Putin? I mean, is your do you think we just we just don't like the Ukrainians? And I understand the position is the off ramp is get out, Russia, get out. But if he's not willing to do that, a quick thing on that is that, you know, I understand that. And that, of course, was actually pretty, you know, interesting and impressive diplomacy in the Cuban Missile Crisis. But you had two people that, as you mentioned, were in a cold

war, not a hot war. So that made the off-ramps were slightly easier. If you want to see a Russian example of this, the Russians in 1945, they had been, you know, the Great Patriotic War, they had been brutalized incredibly by the Wehrmacht and the German army, and they were coming, sweeping back. And they did amazingly horrible things, and they did nothing. There was no off- et cetera. There's a version of that right now in Ukraine. And I'm not saying that, you know, if I had my druthers, I would offer an offer, et cetera, if I was in that position. But the Ukrainians are pretty united on this front because of what has happened, because of the images they see every day,

because of, you know, people waiting in line at a train station being blown up by an enormous missile. And, you know, you see children's shoes and clothes scattered around and people's, you know, you know, broken bodies on the ground being being hauled off. I mean, this has had a profound effect. And look, the Zelensky administration, people close to me have said this. It is a profound effect on the off ramp. If there was, as people say, a point of negotiation at the beginning of this conflict, and there was points of negotiation, I don't think they were very serious, there is no points of negotiation now. Why? Well, it's because of what's happened. And what has happened is that

the Ukrainians do not want an off-ramp that actually cedes any of their territory because they believe the entire conflict is the fault of the Russians and it's morally wrong to take somebody's territory. I get that. I'm not saying I would do the exact same thing. I'm just saying that that is definitely how the Ukrainians look at it. People forget that the Cold War wasn't just like people from a distance issuing stern communiques with one another. That's not how it went. I mean, in addition to being completely inappropriate for an American president to elevate the pathetic attempt at using a nuclear arsenal as a deterrent to allied support for Ukraine, in addition to that, it's just factually untrue that we are closer to Armageddon now. I get that it's a queasy making moment. Nobody likes it. I feel bad and worried about a lot of

things right now. However, I'm old enough to remember the Cold War. The Cold War had hot shooting wars with Americans in them against Soviet-backed countries. There's a whole thing called Korea. Check it out. It happened after World War II. It was a hot war. There was a series of hot wars everywhere. There were proxy wars all over Africa, all over South America and Central America between the two sides. There was obviously Afghanistan. And so and all these moments of of tense nuclear exchanges, not exchanges, but negotiations. People were dead worried about a nuclear holocaust and Armageddon all throughout the 80s. My God, did you watch a movie? Did you see a television series? That was constantly part of the culture and it didn't come out of nowhere. It was part of what was happening diplomatically.

We didn't know that it was all going to suddenly collapse in 1989 through 1991. We assumed it would go like that forever. So part of this is that I don't want to say that we 1989 through 1991. We assumed it would go like that forever. So part of this is that I don't want to say that we've gotten soft. We've forgotten what it was like to live back then under that constant kind of threat while people were dying in a lot of places. And one small brief point on this on the nuclear question. The sovereignty of Ukraine was, and this is very often overlooked and for some reason, nearly, it's nearly ever pointed out, is that the Budapest Protocols in 1994, the exchange was that the Russians, Europe, America would recognize and basically defend Ukraine's sovereignty or

allow Ukraine to be a sovereign country if they gave up their nuclear arsenal. At the breakup of the Soviet Union, so much of those nukes were in Ukraine. The Ukraine, I believe at the time, became the third largest nuclear country. And so in exchange for giving up those weapons, which they did, and probably would be quite helpful right now in a nuclear showdown, they were assured by the Russians that Ukraine was an independent country. And that's important to remember because those treaties don't get to go away when you decide that they go away. Right. I mean, those are those have people's signatures on them and they should mean something. They don't mean anything right now. But it was because of the nuclear question that that their sovereignty was actually guaranteed in the first

place. Want to want to tell you that, of course, there was the attempted cleanup by the White House. The next day, Karine Jean-Pierre comes out. The president's comments did not reflect any new intelligence. Boy, that's true. Or any old intelligence for that matter. Pentagon spokesperson John Kirby, his comments were not based on specific new information. We don't have any information, in fact, that Putin has made that kind of a decision, nor have we seen anything that would give us pause to reconsider our own strategic nuclear posture. He just says the president was reflecting the very high stakes that are in play right now. So, again, he was reckless. And what does he do as we're on the brink of Armageddon. He goes to Delaware, but fear not because you know who's on the case of Ukraine and the situation there? Randy Weingarten. Yes, America's diplomat, the carer in chief of children has gone to Ukraine. I don't know why. For a photo op to improve her own image, undoubtedly.

She's giving out some books to the ukrainian children okay whatever this is her trying to improve her own pr meanwhile uh you know back here in the united states the children she's actually supposed to be you know looking out for are at record lows on our test scores on our mass scores on our reading scores they just upped like the the nation's report card and absolutely dreadful numbers that she actually is responsible for. She's abandoned all those children. As somebody said,

the kids in Ukraine can't go to school because of an actual war. The kids in America haven't been able to go to school because of Randy Weingarten. So you feel better. I can see it on your faces. You feel better. You see her comment where she was in Lviv

in the kind of beautiful center of Lviv. And she said, first of all, she kept on saying Putin, which is a very weird pronunciation. She was saying Putin and Putin. And she the best thing about it was she said, you know, I was invited here. Okay, maybe she's invited. And there's been missile attacks overnight, and the schools are closed, and the kids are learning remotely, which I thought was an amazing Americanism in like the schools are being bombed. And she's like, yeah, they're learning remotely. I was like, what an amazing. It works, people.

She has this other tweet where she said, you know, there's been attacks in Ukraine and I'm I'm heading to the border to check it out. Just literally to me that border. Oh, my God. Can you imagine it out? These Ukrainian soldiers probably like, who is this annoying lady? My God. And why is Mark Hamill from Star Wars here? Why is that? I like him. That was the weirdest twist in the Ukraine news. It was like Mark Hamill from Star Wars said that President Zelensky called him personally to ask him to be like a drone administrator. Hold on.

We actually cut it because I was like, what the hell is happening? It's soundbite eight. I'm not used to being contacted by world leaders. You know, I'm a court jester. I'm a non-essential worker. I do cartoon voices and TV and movies. So I was honored to be contacted by him. And basically what they were wanting me to do was become a

so-called ambassador which a glorified word for representative of their army of drones because i was surprised he spoke to me as long as he did i thought my gosh this is a man that has a lot on his agenda but he took the time and uh who knows i mean, maybe he's just a Star Wars fan. Oh, my God. He's not used to being contacted by casting agents. Oh, jeez. I mean, apparently it's worse than we knew in Ukraine for Zelensky to be reaching out to Mark Hamill and Randy Weingarten. Like the Vanity Fair cover.

I'm not sure this guy's being advised well. I realize he's a former actor. He's a star. But I don't think this is the way to win the hearts and minds. Am I wrong, Matt? Yes, because what is allowing him to fight besides the fact that all Ukrainians are conscripted to fight? You can't leave the country for mail at this point, but also they all are really entered. This is what happens when your country

gets invaded by a bigger bully next door. You kind of want to fight back and punch them in the mouth. So they're fighting really hard. That's great. But we've also sent them $67 billion. Yeah, that's better. And we could send them really quickly a whole lot more and probably will be. And that is the most important source of funding by far. I mean, we are dwarfing everybody. We still said dwarfing. No. OK. We are a little people. Yeah. Very good. And also he needs that lifeline to be open. It's literally going to be a lifeline because it's going to be pretty hard for a lot of Europe to

continue supporting Zelensky. Poland will. The Baltics will, the Czech Republic will, a lot of them will. But there's going to be a recession and there already is a recession, but there's going to be a bad one probably this winter with energy supplies coming in. And there's going to be a lot of people starting to get wobbly. So he needs to keep by any means necessary. People are always mocking him for showing up on award shows and doing this in America. And it's it is ridiculous. It's inherently ridiculous. And also, we are giving him all the guns to fight his war.

He needs to get the rock. OK, I'm just saying, if you want to get somebody who Americans are going to listen to aim a little higher with respect to Mark, I'm like, I'm just a little higher. Is he says he's doing like voiceovers and cartoons. Like, maybe just a little higher. He says he's doing like voiceovers and cartoons. Oh, God. Is that Kim Kardashian? Yeah. Speaking of drones. He's trying to be practical with his sort of diplomatic efforts there. Look, I would say that I just briefly agree broadly with what's been said here. I mean, Kiev is what was getting pounded yesterday. This is, what, 500 miles from the Korean, um, Crimean Peninsula. It's,

it's, it's a major deal. I mean, this is not kind of a strategy to the extent there's a strategy being employed by Putin. It appears that the strategy is just a tax of reprisal on civilian centers, not to try and take out any, this is demoralization by targeting civilians. It's grotesque. Um, and at the same time, the one thing that I've kind of continued to be very concerned about is the degree to which I don't hear a lot of public officials like a Joe Biden, who the one thing that we were promised when Joe Biden was running for office is that the adults were back in charge, that we would see a more kind of steady hand at the wheel and that the rhetoric coming out of this White House perhaps could be, that we could expect it to be a bit more mature. I would expect to see more public declarations. I can appreciate

strong support for the Ukrainians, but at the same time, also just the importance, the urgency of bringing an end to the conflict, of bringing some sort of close to the fighting itself, which obviously the United States nor any other European government is able to simply declare unilaterally that this can happen. But certainly once you're arming a side in the conflict and providing them with some advice and guidance in other contexts as well, there is some responsibility to try and help bring this whole thing to some sort of resolution. And that resolution may or may not involve the complete kind of territorial integrity of Ukraine being as it was before the conflict began. And to the extent they can encourage Zelensky to accept some sort of compromise, however distasteful it may be to him, that might be in the interest of the Europeans broadly and of the United States of America more broadly.

God forbid, God forbid Putin uses a tactical nuclear weapon because now you're going to have NATO countries getting involved. I mean, that is the last thing we want. Something needs to be done before that happens. Let me just pause it there because there's so many so many other things that I tease that I want to get to. We spent a good deal of time in Russia. And that is let's let's go with this, because what you talk about, which is does Joe Biden walk it back? Does he walk back those comments? Does he walk back? I mean, we always talk about the White House walking back his comments. And on the subject of the president and his messaging, he literally walked back the other day. Every day, it seems there's a his train of thought um he's mumbling mumbling now i mean it's really genuinely getting alarming and the polls there was a poll that just came out that shows um okay in august

overall 59 of americans said they had concerns about his mental health now it's up to 64 all right it's gone up five points and guess where all the gains came from? Democrats. Democrats are up. They make up the difference because even they now are seriously concerned about whether our president is all there. This as video comes out of the president taking questions on, I think it was OPEC and how they're giving us the middle finger after we went over there and did the fist bump, and the answer was pound sand. Watch this. Watch how he literally backs away from the lectern. No, the trip was not essentially for oil.

The trip was about the Middle East and about Israel and rationalization of positions. But it is a disappointment, and it says that there are problems. Are you worried about it? It's happening. Oh, no. What's happening? Oh, no. That's moonwalking.

That's what that is. Do you think they maybe had those smoke bombs and it was supposed to go off and he was just like back away? Wow. That is terrifying. That's much better. Wow wow somehow that's worse than the congresswoman thing you know we can still see you walk backwards joe walk backwards right in his ear here he goes no lectern by the way just standing in front of the scrum oh man walk backwards there you go you need an aid always to be close enough

to come grab you and say we gotta go Mr. President I don't even know what it is it's like on the podium so many of those clips are him trying to find ways off of podiums which is kind of troubling it's not the hardest thing in the world

and Megan to your point those numbers are increasing maybe because the president is talking about Armageddon and everyone's talking about the potential of nuclear war. And you kind of want to have a on the tiller there, don't you? And now hopefully we'll be taking this seriously because the buck does stop with the president. And you can't say, well, Mr. President, we're not going to listen to you because because you're old and a bit batty um he can make some pretty bad decisions right now and it's pretty terrifying it's not just you know 1994 bill clinton or something where the world was a little the stakes are very high

yeah yeah say again matt at least he has a very coherent vice president. Jeez. Grab that around as like a warm blanket. He was talking openly about assassinating Putin or at least suggesting he needs to go. He needs to be taken out. What are you doing? Walked back. What are you doing? I think we should cut that clip.

We should cut that clip of Biden walking back. And that should just be like the theme video for the Biden presidency presidency because that's what his staff does after every single one of these nonsense comments walk it back what can you put the benny hill music on top of it or the larry david music that one i've got at the ready while we're on the subject of politics, can we talk about Tulsi? Tulsi, you're going to be shocked. She's no more of a Democrat than Liz Cheney is a Republican. Take that to the bank. She's leaving the Democratic Party. I don't know if we have this on camera, but she says she's done with them, that they're a bunch of basic grifters. She happens to be coming on the show later this week and coming out with a book as well.

But I think she thought this was a good time to announce that. I don't think anybody's surprised. But it's sad to me in a way because we used to have centrist Democrats and that used to be allowed. And I think she was chased out of this party first by the Clintons, then by Nancy Pelosi. She outlined it the first time she came on this show. But she was just too centrist for them. first by the Clintons, then by Nancy Pelosi. She outlined it the first time she came on this show, but she was just too centrist for them. They considered her a threat and they got the hell rid of her.

I mean, even though she kind of like Bernie, which isn't all that centrist, but my point is like, she wasn't a Clinton acolyte. Absolutely. She was, no, she's, I mean, she's, was for the Green New Deal. She was a Bernie bro in 2016. She was vice president of the DNC.

She was a person of some heft um and universal health care uh i i think that tulsi is uh has always been kind of a party of one um and uh and you know i i as someone who even wrote a book about a political independence i always uh appreciate people who are themselves independents but she has an element of like, I'm being heterodox over here. Look at me, new book and podcast coming out near you sometime. She's a little bit over the map right now and seems to be trying to land kind of closer to Tucker Carlson's desk on her emphases and some of her politics so i don't know if she was really forced out um some of her objections are things that a lot of people are objecting to the democratic party right now she very specifically went about how they're too woke and all of this and i think you see a lot

of uh kind of the latino disaffection with the democratic party particularly down south in texas part of this is they don't like the cultural messages being sent by the kind of elite top down and tulsi has always had sort of um that kind of response she's has a different background than a lot of people and is out there in hawaii and has a little skunk hair thing uh as well but i don't know if it's a harbinger of anything besides tulsi's own uh idiosyncratic career maybe of a third I mean, it's definitely kind of third way of politics now when you say, oh, you know, Joe Rogan is conservative. Tulsi Gabbard is conservative.

There's a number of these people who are, you know, Breonna Joy Gray used to also work for Bernie Sanders. And a lot of these people at the Jacobin magazine, you know, kind of left wing magazine who all want universal health care. They're very big government type people. They don't like wokeness and they don't like American foreign policy when it's George W. Bush or when it's Joe Biden. So you have this kind of third way of people that were conservatives, but many of which were kind of neocons back in the day. I mean, Saurabh, our friend Saurabh Amari is a version

of that who was calling for the liberation of Iraq and Iran. And now it's like the only two people in America that can save the republic are Bernie Sanders or Donald Trump. That's a definitely emerging pole in American politics. I don't know what it is, because like I mean, when you said and I think that you're right and I don't know how to reframe it. But Tulsi is a centrist. She's something, right? She's heterodox in a bunch of ways. And she's kind of on this side and that one and this side and that one. And like Matt, I like political independence, even when I disagree with her.

And I vehemently disagree with a bunch of stuff. But I do appreciate the fact. And by the way, that is definitely the doing of Donald Trump. Because Donald Trump came in and destroyed the idea of what American conservatism was. And it was kind of backwards casted in a way where American conservatives then decided to create an ideology based on what Donald Trump was talking about. And that was, you know, anti-free trade, you know, anti-immigration, anti-foreign intervention. These are a lot of kind of mixed things that wouldn't have been traditional Republican positions. Pro-welfare state. Pro-welfare state in a lot of ways of mixed things that wouldn't have been traditional Republican positions. Pro welfare state. Pro welfare state in a lot of ways.

And, you know, I always point this out. Donald Trump had, you know, Republicans put their replacement for Obamacare on his desk and he sent it back saying it was too mean. It wasn't generous enough. And like that's it. That's a very unique thing that's happening in American politics. And Tulsi is definitely someone who's following one of those paths. She is Samoan. So how many seconds until Tiffany Cross says another black person forced out of the Democratic Party by these absurd white men like Obama? I don't know.

She's complaining about anti-white racism. Yes, she did say that, didn't she? Yeah, she did. And you're not allowed to say that, but of course we all see it everywhere. I know you guys have been talking about that kind of thing and anti male chauvinism and all the narratives that we've been seeing about women, this women that Meghan Markle, every single woman who ever succeeded in America is in fact a victim, you need to reevaluate your worldview. Meanwhile, it's like, guys aren't graduating from high school, guys aren't graduating from high school.

Guys aren't getting jobs. Guys are overwhelmingly the ones who kill themselves. I talked about this on the show last week and we just have to continue saying girl power, girl power, girl power. To me, that's another massive problem that we've got in our society that you guys have been calling some attention to. Well, I think one part of it is just the numbers are just startling, especially when you compare it to 20 years ago, the number of people who are working. She did. And now that's like 33%. It's going down and it goes down in every single cohort up until age 55. And then those dudes are working more. And that's interesting. And it's also interesting that, and this is male and female too, people, young people

will describe themselves as being, feeling like too injured either, uh, actually or psychologically to be able to work. These are like the average 27 year old describes themselves basically as being more disabled than the average 57 year old, which says to me that there's something really weird going on with our conception of work. If we don't inculcate a work ethic um anymore you know where half the people don't have jobs before the age of 25 now hey when did that happen used to be two-thirds of them did um so yes a lot of that is part of the male feeder thing and that's a trend line

that's been increasing there's a couple of books out rich Richard Reeves and Nicholas Ebersatt and other people are looking at this, but the flight of men from work is a bad thing in and of itself. I don't, I'm not one who wakes up in the morning and says, you know what, we got to defend men right now. I want men to, you know, get up off their ass and go to work too. But we also should recognize when a problem is staring us in the face, and this one absolutely is. to structural impediments to their success, to building wealth, to being trained and properly equipped for the kind of jobs that are likely to be available in our communities and in our economy going forward, those things are generally going to be gender and race agnostic. It has something to do with family structure for sure. I mean, if you're a single parent household, whether you're a man or a woman, things are going to be slightly more daunting for you.

But if we could start to think about people's needs and not their identities and the particular communities that they are said to belong to, I think that would go a long way towards helping to improve outcomes for more and more Americans and allowing us to actually fix problems.

It would. But we haven't been able to get out of our way on that. Yeah, we're going a different way. And I will give you a great example of how right after this quick two minute break more with the fifth column guys coming up. And by the way, last time we talked about pumpkin spice latte and whether I was for it, I'm going to try my first one right here with the guys. We'll find out how did the big debate about it last time when they were on, you guys will be with me and I'll tell you how it goes. Stand by. So we're less than a month away from midterms and the get out the vote effort is in full swing.

And Michelle Obama's group, when we all vote, that's her initiative, is working with the BLK dating app. The BLK dating app is designed for black singles looking to date. And they have a new video out that is meant to inspire young black singles, not only to date, but to vote and warn that if you do not vote, you do not get to. Vuck. Here's a clip. Okay. Looking for some action. I'm not going to stop. What's happening? Hey. Oh, my God. Can I tell you the best?

Oh, my God. If I abstaining from voting, abstain from having sex with those people, I'm never going to vote again. The exact opposite of, Oh my Lord. Here's the greatest. I listened, you know, my team puts together these great packets for me, uh, when you guys come on and when everybody comes on and sometimes I listen to them. So you hit Microsoft word, you download as a word document, then you hit read aloud. And you got to hear that song read on the read aloud. Oh my God. No voting, no fucking. No voting, no fucking.

No fucking, no touching. So here's some of the lyrics. Don't stop now. Stuff my ballot box again. But my homegirl though put the buy in partisan. Politics be so nasty. Make me want to flirt you. Show you how to be a poll worker uh legs in the air i don't care anyone can get it universal health care if you want to come before the deadline come in this jacuzzi gerrymander in this coochie

that's pretty good oh sure you know so i, I really feel like they're uplifting the dialogue. They're really... What do we make of this beautiful attempt to reach out to young Black voters? I think if certain people have decided that they're going to abstain from voting, and they're perhaps abstaining because they say to themselves, you know, I don't really know enough about this race. I want those people to stay home. And as I think we've observed, because we had a conversation about this on our

members only podcast, you should totally subscribe to Substack. There's a certain category of American who probably should vote. And if they're not inspired to go out and vote, like, let's not encourage them. Let them stay home. You don't know what's going on you're not interested in politics the only way to incentivize you to actually get out and cast a ballot is to promise you sexual intercourse with those people let's not let's not i think that the polity will be improved well served by keeping you at home we should reward that can i I tell you, Roger, he came out with a this is his headline in his piece, Democrats colon gerrymander this coochie, which literally is a line from the song. So he's not wrong. And he writes it's this song is urging women to hold out on men who are not registered to vote, not even registered. OK, if a white supremacist had depicted black people like this as sex mad animals, we would never hear the end of protest. And we shouldn't because it's totally degrading.

But this was made by black liberals for black people. Then he goes on. We're a long, long way from Smokey Robinson and Otis Redding. That's for sure. And goes on from there. It's not a bad point. Like this is how this group thinks. This is. I'm going to appeal to young black people by putting these morons on screen and threaten no access, you know, who did you vote for? And they're like, I don't know, this guy. Why did you vote for it? I just, I can't, I can't have sex unless I vote. No, I'm super horny, but I just, I heard they're great, but I don't care now. I'm going to bring my sticker. I voted sticker and I'm going to be gone for about six hours. That's really not what I want to encourage. I don't care about the actual optics of the video. It's like, and I'm going to be gone for about six hours. That's really not what I want to encourage. I don't care about the actual optics of the video.

It's like, and I will probably disagree with Rod Dreher in the sense that I think some of the lines are actually quite funny, a few. But yeah, I am somebody who does not want to encourage more people to vote. I think that's a bad idea. I think people should be more informed and when they're informed, they should vote.

I'm not a person who likes Australia, which forces everybody to vote by law. And, you know, there's a lot of people, and we talked about this on the podcast the other day, not voting is a choice, just the same as pulling the lever for a Republican or Democrat. Not voting can be a choice. And I often don't vote, not because I'm misinformed or I don't know anything about the candidates, because I do know about the candidates. And that's why often don't vote, not because I'm misinformed or I don't know anything about the candidates, because I do know about the candidates and that's why I don't vote. And so this idea that not voting is always a bad thing, I disagree. Although if you don't vote, you don't have the chance to comically write in the names of all of your friends who are all like the district

court judge things that you should never vote for. Someday I'm going to be a judge, aren't I? I'm trying, man. I get you guys on there every time. All right, let me shift gears to something equally controversial. Equally. Okay, this is via The Daily Wire. Happened Monday. There is an award-winning multimedia journalist who none of us has ever heard of named David Levitt. He claims, award-winning, I don't know what that means, mom.

He claims that he's written for CBS, Yahoo, Examiner, etc. And this is a person who called child protective services on Virginia State Senate candidate Tina Ramirez. Why, you say? What did Tina do? Did Tina hurt her child? Did Tina abuse her child? Did Tina do something that would make any sane person call child protective service on her? No. Tina said, quote, I teach my daughter real American history. I refuse to join the radical left's campaign to erase history and wished her followers a happy Columbus Day. So this loser goes on to tweet, can someone please call child care services on Tina Ramirez, who is teaching her child to be a racist?

Then he apparently decided to make the call himself and complained about the long wait time to speak to someone at the hotline. Tweeting the Virginia State Hotline for Child Abuse has a 10 plus minute hold and is experiencing high call volumes with 14 callers ahead of me. This is absolutely unacceptable. How many people try to report child abuse and hang up? How many children were continued to be abused? Many, sir, because of you tying up their line. You are jamming up the lines and you're encouraging other people to do it as well. Some young child might have been in trouble seeking help and you and your asshole followers are harassing this woman on the internet.

I will say that Columbus Day, probably my least favorite holiday because of the ridiculous kind of culture war antics that tend to dominate the holiday. It's annoying. Whatever kind of particular political, historical narrative you choose to embrace, whether you imagine that Christopher Columbus was just this bold, chaste explorer who went to America and found it and we should celebrate him forever and ever. Amen. Or that the noble savages were here living peacefully in bliss before anyone got here and have never done anything terrible or wrong. And the reason we should regard them as the first peoples is because God gave them the land and they never had to fight any sort of violent conflict or genocide one another or anything else horrendous. If everyone were equally upset about the fact that some people in the past

have done awful things and therefore perhaps shouldn't be celebrated, I would be okay. But instead you get this kind of selective outrage in one direction or the other that I find like plenty preposterous and nonsensical. And I wish we would just be a little bit more thoughtful. I think there's so many interesting things to talk about. Maybe if not rebranded Columbus Culture War Day, we could rebrand it like Discovery Day. It was the day that two people – Why don't people just shut up and enjoy the free day off? And that was interesting.

If you're going to tax something, does it have to be a freaking holiday? People need their days off. They enjoy having the school day off, having a day off from work. Like pick something else to pick on. You know, like what good was done by taking that day back as a work day and a school day? Here's the ending of my little story. Ramirez, the candidate, tweeted back to this guy, mighty bold and liberal of you to lecture a Hispanic mother with a black daughter on racism.

What's next? Are you going to lecture me on women's rights? And then of course the capper from Leavitt, having a black child doesn't make you any less racist. Yes, it does. It absolutely does. No,

it doesn't. That's crazy. Colonizer. Adopted or marry a black woman. And I'm David Duke. No, I am a black child. I'm going to adopt a black or marry a black woman. And I'm David Duke. No, it makes you less racist. I think it does. Camille, can you back up a little?

They're your racist beard. That's insane. I remember a long time ago, I had a conversation about this. Where Camille said something similar when somebody said like, you know, just because you say like, oh, I have a black friend, it doesn't make me like, it doesn't make it less racist. And Camille's argument is a matter of fact, it does. They tend not to have friends who are black if they don't like black people.

Yeah, this is just a fact. All right. So we got around back. Abby has gone and gotten me the pumpkin spice latte from Starbucks. Now, I have never had a pumpkin spice latte in my life. However, I confess that my hairstylist brought me an iced coffee with the pumpkin cream on the top. And it was delicious. You guys remember we talked about this the last time I'd never had one. All right. Now refresh me on your stances when it comes to

pumpkin spice, anything. I'll go down the line, Matt. Libertarian, do what you like. I'm not going to join you. The only hate crime that I love seeing prosecuted. He's against it, Camille. I'm not a fan of the public spice latte. I think it kind of tastes like cough syrup. So you've tried it?

I have tried it, yes. Have you guys tried it? Yes. I don't think so. All right. Well, I've never tried it. I've never tried the actual latte. I'm going to try it now. Stand by. Here we go. Okay.

It's like Robitussin she's drinking. Spit it out. Do spit it out. Right at the camera. I get what you're saying with the medicinal flavor there. Yeah. I got to say the pumpkin spice iced coffee, it's better. It's better. And it's lower in calories.

I asked Sarah, who does my hair, how many calories in this bad boy? And she said 150. That's not bad. You can like, that's sort of like a breakfast. You can get away with that. And by the way, I don't know what's in there. It's like crack.

You're wide awake for the rest of the day. You're like, I'm ready to go. So if you want to suck up there, it's like not totally consistent with the intermittent fasting, but for a treat every once in a while, I would stand by that. Latte, I don't know. I see what you're saying with the intermittent fasting, but for a treat every once in a while, I would stand by that. The latte, I don't know.

I see what you're saying with the tussin. But the important thing about the pumpkin spice, and you mentioned, Megan, the word Karen before is that this is the pre-Karen, right? Before there was a Karen, it was the pumpkin spice lady in the Ugg boots. That's why people started hating it. It was a very particular type of person who went and got the pumpkin spice latte, kind of soccer mom with the Ugg boots. And now it's become Karen. Well, I don't even think that counts if it's iced.

I mean, that's a total, that's ice Karen. That's different. She doesn't have any of the same characteristics as the original Karen. There's so many delicious caffeinated beverages that you can get at Starbucks or any place else. The attention that is given to the pumpkin spice latte, completely undeserved. I think it is a subpar beverage. And I support the chai tea latte, although I believe that saying chai tea is a little weird because it's- I support the chai tea. I love Cam's like methodical business-like approach to this just corporate America like this is what I support

he will be voting for that I could do by the way there's a peppermint cream that comes out soon too never too soon for that one guys what a pleasure as always find them at the fifth dot substack.com and you won't be sorry you did. Thanks for listening to the Megyn Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.