The Megyn Kelly Show - Larry Elder on Racial Resentment, Media Bias, and What Makes America Great | Ep. 72

Episode Date: March 5, 2021

Megyn Kelly is joined by Larry Elder, host of The Larry Elder Show and executive producer of the film, "Uncle Tom," to talk about racial resentment, systemic racism in education, housing and policing, reparations in America, the media's role in dividing Americans on the issue of race, who his mentors are and who he considers part of his influence "tree," what he loves about America, and more.Follow The Megyn Kelly Show on all social platforms:Twitter: http://Twitter.com/MegynKellyShowInstagram: http://Instagram.com/MegynKellyShowFacebook: http://Facebook.com/MegynKellyShowFind out more information at:https://www.devilmaycaremedia.com/megynkellyshow

Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations. Hey everyone, it's Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show. Oh, I've been looking forward to today's guest. It's Larry Elder, and he has brought his facts, as they say. I brought facts, bitches. That's what they say, the kids. Anyway, he's amazing. And if you don't know Larry from Fox News,

he's got a nationally syndicated radio show. He's got a nationally syndicated column. He's on Fox all the time. There is a reason why people want to hear from him because he does have data. I was just saying in my team, the thing about Larry is he shows not tells, right? Like he doesn't, he doesn't need to just make sweeping declarations about one thing

or another. He's just going to tell you what the facts are, and then you can make up your own mind. And he always wins because he's always got that data. He is ideological mentor to Candace Owens, ideological descendant of Thomas Sowell, and first came to national prominence. And in fact, was first discovered by Candace, she says, when he went on Dave Rubin's show. And we love Dave Rubin and kind of dismantled Dave, who at the time was a liberal and was saying that everything is systemically racist in America. Not everything, but a lot of things. And Larry just, you know, I mean, it was it was it was fun. Dave thinks so, too. He's told me that. And it changed Dave's thinking too. And

here's just a little clip in case you don't know, Larry. You wouldn't not acknowledge that there are some systemic issues. Give me an example. Tell me what you think the most systemic racist issue is. What is it? Well, I would say that because black people in most cases, in many cases, were descendants of slaves, that racism as an institution, that a certain amount of it just exists. In 2015? Give me the most blatant racist example you can come up with right now. I asked you to name the most important example of racism, and you gave white cops going after black people. And I told you, gave you the facts for that. So that's nonsense. So you must have something else. What else is it? If you think racism remains a problem in America, give it to me.

Well, I think it remains a problem. It may not be systemic in that we have, it's not like you're not being hired because you're black. There's no systemic reason, you know, legal reason that that exists, that kind of thing. But I think that racism as a general theory exists. I need some specifics. You gave me the white cop thing. What else? Give me another example what you think is a problem. Well, as a black conservative,

tell me how do you get people to come around to you? You're the one who made the assertion. That's so fun. Dave, he's doing what you do, right? Like, turn it back on another person. Like, why don't you tell me? And Larry was not having it. It's just one of the many reasons why he's you do, right? Like turn it back on another person. Like, why don't you tell me? And Larry was not having it.

It's just one of the many reasons why he's a star, right? And really kind of gave birth to a couple of disciples that day in that Dave started turning his own views, having listened with an open mind as too few people do. And Candace Owens saw it and she had been a lefty and a liberal and had sounded very different back then and started to listen and change her mind on some of these issues. And Larry has a movie out called Uncle Tom, which is amazing and features some of these very folks in a very profound way and talks about some of the blowback that black conservatives get for not towing the Democratic line, but also just the ideas that are being circulated in some of the liberal circles about people of color and his pushback on that and the pushback of others on that. It's well, well worth your time.

Watch Uncle Tom, which you can get on uncletom.com and he'll tell us where else we can get it. But anyway, you're going to love him. He's going to educate you and he's coming up right after this. I'm so excited for this discussion. You're brilliant. I love everything you say. Uncle Tom was a masterpiece. And I just like the more I listen to you, Larry, the more I'm like, oh, my God, the amount of work that must have gone in to the education you've had to give yourself on these

issues. I mean, it's been a lifetime of self-study, right? Because you're not getting fed any of these truths by our media. Now, Megan, how am I supposed to live up to that? Setting the bar high. Oh, man. Get somebody else. I predict you will. I predict the audience will see that you will do it. I just feel like, you know, I heard Candace saying in Uncle Tom, you could graduate from high school with a perfect 4.0 and you would be educated and you would be miseducated given the liberal bent in these schools, especially when it comes to issues like race. And yet you're her mentor. You're the person she sort of has looked to for straight facts, new sources of data. So how did you get to your place where you didn't accept what was happening in the media and the narrative being shoved down your throat and decided to be an

independent thinker? It all came from my mother and my father, Megan. My mother, lifelong Democrat, my father, lifelong Republican. And you should be at our dinner table and our breakfast table sometimes when they would argue. And my father always felt that the Democratic Party, quote, wants to give you something for nothing. And when you try and get something for nothing, you almost always end up getting nothing for something. That was his favorite expression. And the older I got, the more sense he made. My father never felt that he was a victim. If anybody had a reason to feel that America was a racist, hateful place, it was my dad. Where was he brought up? My father was born in Athens, Georgia. And he was born to a single mom. He never met his biological father. His mother had a series of irresponsible boyfriends,

one more irresponsible than the next. The last name I have, Elder Megan. That is the name of a boyfriend his mom had who stayed in his life probably longer than the other. The last name I have, Elder Megan. That is the name of a boyfriend his mom had who stayed in his life probably longer than the other boyfriends, maybe four or five years. My father came home from school at the age of 13 and quarreled with his mom's then boyfriend. Mom sighed at the boyfriend, kicks my father out of the house, never to return. You're talking about a black boy, Athens, Georgia, Jim Crow South at the beginning of the Great Depression I defy you to find somebody who had a hand out like that and I asked my father What did you do and my father said what did you think I did I went down the road

I took any kind of job I could get Ultimately, he became a Pullman Porter for the trains. They were the largest private employer of blacks in those days so this little black boy from Athens, Georgia, Megan, was able to go all around the country on the trains, and it was an eye-opening experience for him. And on one run, he came out to California. Now, again, this is in the 30s. And my father was amazed at how sunny it was, how warm it was, and the fact that he could walk into a restaurant in the front door and get served. He always told me he had tins of tuna and crackers because he never knew whether he'd be able to get a meal when he was on the road. So my father said he made a mental note, maybe someday

I'll relocate to California. Pearl Harbor, my dad joined the Marines. He became a Montfort Point Marine. They were the first black Marines, 1942 to 1949, 20,000 of them. They got a Congressional Gold Medal, by the way. My dad was stationed on the island of Guam. When the bombs fell, the war is over. My dad goes back to Chattanooga, Tennessee, where he had met and married my mom, to get him a job as a cook because he cooked in the military. He was a staff sergeant in charge of KP for the Black soldiers. So he goes to Chattanooga, walks all around to get him a job as a short order cook. And he's told by restaurant after restaurant after restaurant, pardon my language, we don't hire niggers. My dad said, I just cook for thousands of GIs for the war effort. We don't hire niggers.

My dad came home to my mom and said, I'm going to an unemployment office. He went to an unemployment office. The lady said, you went through the wrong door. My dad goes out to the hall and sees colored only and goes to that door to the very same lady who sent him out. He came home to my mom and he said, this is BS. I'm going to California, to Los Angeles, where I was years ago. I'm going to get me a job as a short order cook and I'll send for you. So my dad comes out here to LA where I am right now, walks around for a day and a half, goes to restaurant after restaurant and says, I want a job. And they say, I'm sorry, you have no references. My dad says, references? I have to have references to make ham and eggs? They treated him the same

way they treated him in Chattanooga. They were just more polite about it. So my dad goes to unemployment office, this time only one door. That's how much more progressive L.A. was. And the lady said, I have nothing. My dad said, what time do you open? She said, eight. What time do you close? He said, 530.

I'll be in that chair until you can find something. I need a job. My dad sat in that chair for about a day and a half. Lady calls him up. I have a job. Don't know whether or not you're going to want it. My dad said, of course I'm going to want it. What is it? She said, it's cleaning toilets and Nabisco brand bread. My dad did that for 10 years, took a second full-time job for another bread company cleaning

toilets, cooked for a family on the weekend to get additional money and went to night school two or three nights a week to get his GED. The man never slept, which is why he was so cranky. And my father told my brothers and me the following. Hard work wins. You get out of life what you put into it. Larry, you cannot control the outcome, but you are 100% in control of the effort. And before you moan and whine about what somebody did to you or said to you, go to the nearest mirror, look at it and say, what could I have done to change the outcome? And finally, my dad said, no matter how good you are, how hard you work, bad stuff will happen. How you deal with that bad stuff will tell your mother and me if we raised a man. And that basically is a motto that I've always lived by. Oh, I love that. I mean, hard work wins is 100% true. And you know, as well as

I do, though, that if I were to say that, which I do, they'd say that's my white privilege talking. Like that's a white woman who's had all the advantages of the system and doesn't understand what it's like to be a black person in America. Well, and that, of course, is BS. Probably the most prominent think tank on the left, Megan, is the Brookings Institution. And probably one of the more prominent ones on the right is American Enterprise Institute. If you look at their formula for success to escape poverty, it's almost identical. Step number one, finish high school. Step number two, don't have a kid until you get married. Step number three, get a job, keep a job, don't quit that job until you get another job. Step number four, avoid the criminal justice system. You do that, you will not be poor.

You don't, there's a better than even chance you will be. It's funny to listen to you tell your dad's story because what we're hearing right now is, take what happened on Yale's campus about the Halloween costumes a couple of years ago, where these students of all colors, but a lot of minority students are yelling, yelling at the Yale professors about the fact that one of them, a female professor, had written a note saying, I think these Yale students are old enough to figure out what they should wear on Halloween. I don't think we need to babysit them and hold their hands. And her husband, right, he wrote a little letter saying, yeah, I think my wife is right. I'm, you know, summarizing here, but he got screamed at.

And some of the people screaming at him, some of the black students were yelling like, you have no idea. You don't know how we've suffered. You haven't gone through what we've gone through. And the guy stood there for like three hours and took it. But I'm thinking they have no idea what real suffering is when you hear a story like what your dad went through. No, they have absolutely no idea. And you look at America and look at the black community. The number one problem facing the black community is not systemic racism, not inequality, not any of the other catchphrases that they use. The number one problem facing the country in general and the black community in particular, Megan, is the fact that in the black community, 70 percent of kids are brought into the world

without a father married to the mother. Seventy percent. And forget about elder. Barack Obama once said, when he was being honest, a kid raised without a father is five times more likely to be poor and commit crime, nine times more likely to drop out of school, twenty times more likely to end up in jail. Now, the question is, how have we gone from having 18% of black kids being born outside of wedlock in 1950 to 70% now? And I argue that our welfare state, no matter how well intended it was that Lyndon Johnson launched in the mid-60s,

the so-called war on poverty, he has incentivized women to marry the government and has incentivized men to abandon their financial and moral responsibility. It is far and away the number one problem facing this country. I've been in talk radio and television for about 35 years. And in my career, I've never been able to get Jesse Jackson to come on my show and sit down for an interview like you and I are having. I've never been able to get Maxine Waters to do so. Al Sharpton, Louis Farrakhan, I mentioned Maxine Waters. But one of these so-called Black leaders I was able to get on my program, Kweise Mfume. He was a longtime congressman from Baltimore. Then he became the president of the NAACP. By the way, he's back in Congress. But when he was president of the NAACP, he came on my show. And my first question, Megan, was this question verbatim.

Mr. Mfume, as between the presence of white racism or the absence of black fathers, which poses the bigger threat to the black community, end of quote. And to his credit, without missing a beat, he said the absence of black fathers. So let's go back and dissect that, okay? Because I've read the same thing by Thomas Sowell, and I've seen it in Eli Steele's books, Shelby Steele. And I understand, like they talk about how the black sort of family in this country was in a lot better shape prior to all of the social programs unleashed by LBJ in the 1960s. And that sort of in that hundred year period between the Civil War and the LBJ programs, blacks were doing better. They, they, the, the growth in the black family. And when it came to education, when it came to work in America was on the right track. And then, and then what we thought was a very good thing happened, right? The expansion of like the great society and, and these programs that would help

blacks and welfare that would help, you know, the moms living at home, single moms. So what, what was it? Can you speak to that historical period, speak to that hundred year period? And then what happened? Well, what happened from 1940, let's say to 1960, in 1940, 87% of blacks lived below the federally defined level of poverty. 20 years later, that number had dropped to 47%. That's a 40-point drop in 20 years. That's the greatest period, 20-year period of economic expansion for Blacks in American history. And notably, that took place before the war on poverty, before most of it took place before Brown v. Board of Education in 1954. Of course, before all the Civil Rights Act that took place in 1964, 1965. And it turns out, despite all the horrors, despite Jim Crow,

despite the lynchings, despite all the horrors that Black people are facing, Blacks still overcame, still kept going forward. Poverty still kept going down. And shortly after the so-called war on poverty was launched, poverty for Blacks in the country began to flatline. Had Lyndon Johnson not done this, the poverty level for Blacks would country began to flatline. Had Lyndon Johnson not done this, the poverty level for blacks would have continued to go down. We would not be having this conversation we're having right now. What he's done, what that did is change incentives, change the culture, so that now being on welfare is no longer even a stigma. When I was growing up, my mother and father had an expression for people who are on the welfare, and there weren't very many of them in my

community. They called it, quote, being on the welfare, and there weren't very many of them in my community. They called it, quote, being on the county, close quote. You did not want to be on the county. Now having being on welfare is not a problem anymore. So not only has it changed people's economic incentives, it's also changed the cultural attitude towards being on welfare. It was a neutron bomb dropped on this country. How does it change? How does the presence of a black father in the home change

as a result of those programs? Well, the programs, you couldn't, you were not eligible for the programs if you had a father in the home. So the only way to get these benefits is for the mother to be single. So there was a disincentive for her to marry the husband if she wanted these kinds of monies. There was a poll taken, I think it was in 1994, LA Times, where poor people and non-poor people were asked the following question. Do you think people on welfare have additional children to get additional money? The majority of the non-poor people, Megan, said no. They probably thought the question was insulting, if not racist. However, the majority of poor people said yes. 64% of them said yes. So who do you think is in a better position to know? In 1986, the LA Times did a poll of poor people and asked them whether or not they thought welfare was a crutch that caused dependency or steps for independence, 41% to 31% respectively. Again, whom do you think would be in a better position to know what welfare is doing, poor people or

non-poor people? So, well, how did that change in the 1990s when Bill Clinton came in and, I mean, basically tried to get rid of welfare and try to move people more to, he called it workfare at the time. Well, what happened is it demonstrated exactly what I'm talking about. The Welfare Reform Act that Bill Clinton signed, and don't forget, he campaigned on changing welfare as we know it and didn't do jack. But Dick Morris, his campaign advisor said, look, if you don't sign this bill, you're not going to get reelected. So he signed the bill that was identically worded to the two bills that he previously vetoed. And what happened? Welfare rolls declined by 50 percent, far steeper decline than any of

the experts predicted, without an increase in abortion. It turned out there were a whole bunch of able-bodied and able-minded people who got off the couch after they realized two things. This Welfare Reform Act for the first time put time limits and put so-called family caps. You didn't get additional money if you had additional children. And it had exactly the effect that some of us thought it would have. And it convinced a lot of able-bodied people to get off the couch and go into work. So did it, it doesn't seem like it increased the presence of Black fathers in the homes, though. No, it doesn't. It doesn't appear to have done that, but at least it got more people back to work. So you think that cultural damage was already done? I mean, there was no sort of putting the genie back in the bottle at that point?

Oh, yeah. A lot of damage had already been done. And the fact that we can't even talk about this, if you even talk about what the welfare system has done, you're considered to be a sellout if you're black, you're a racist if you're white. So we can't even talk about the damage that is done. Again, that's why I like to quote Obama on not having a father in the home. This is a man, Obama, who wrote his first autobiography about his angst about not having a father in the home.

Al Sharpton was a middle class guy until his father abandoned the not having a father in the home. Al Sharpton was a middle-class guy until his father abandoned the family, then down to the ghetto. Jesse Jackson, his mother was a teenage mom who got pregnant by the married man who lived next door. And when Jesse Jackson was raised in South Carolina, he was taunted because it was rare for you not to have a father in those days. And the kids said, Jesse ain't got no daddy. Jesse ain't got no daddy. Farrakhan's mom, divorced, was separated from her husband, had a boyfriend, took back up with the husband, briefly got pregnant, didn't want the boyfriend to know, and tried to avoid Farrakhan with a coat hanger. I'm not a psychologist, but I would argue that all three of these so-called Black

leaders have issues with their fathers, which is why they can't appreciate how much better America has been over the last 30 or 40 years, and they still talk about America as if it's the 50s with people still getting lynched. I think it's in part because of their hole in their soul by not having a father. I could be wrong, but it's the number one problem, again, facing the country and facing the Black community. 50% of Hispanic kids are now born outside of wedlock, 25% of white kids. When I was in college, Megan, 1970, I was a freshman, a booklet had just come out by a Democrat named Daniel Patrick Moynihan called The Negro Family, A Case for National Action. At the time, 25% of black kids were born outside of wedlock, a number that Moynihan, who later on ran and became a New York senator,

Democrat, said that number was horrific. We don't do something about it. It's going to have all sorts of negative social consequences. Well, fast forward, 25% of white kids are now born outside of wedlock and nobody is saying a word. I mean, part of that just seems to be because it's just gotten to be more acceptable, right? I mean, now, not long ago, we did a story on throuples, right? Like that's the latest craze where it's not just two people in a relationship, it's three people. There was just an article celebrating, I guess it's a throuple of three guys who just had their first child. So this kid's being raised, you want dads, you got three of them in that family. But I mean, our standards on what's an acceptable way to live

and the importance of the nuclear family as we knew it have definitely changed. No question about it. And the left feels that having a non-traditional family is perfectly okay. I've seen the Black Lives Matter agenda, and they attack the institutional regular family as some sort of Western civilization construct. I mean, honestly, I don't know what to say anymore. It's just outrageous. And the Democrats play this race card constantly. The problems facing the Black community have nothing to do with bad policies or the change of culture and everything to do with systemic racism, structural racism, endemic racism, foundational racism, which is one that I think Baylor O'Rourke gave us, foundational racism. That's what they're pursuing. And Democrats pursue it for votes

and the media pursues it for ratings. And meanwhile, the black community suffers. Hmm. And it does seem to be there's a high degree of just desire to wrestle with your white guilt. I mean, I see that in some of my media brethren is that I don't know if they feel bad. They have these big salaries. They're too lazy to do the homework that you've just cited. They feel like they're on the side of the angels if they say all the right things, like follow whatever Ibram Kendi says or Robin DiAngelo says, and that way they'll be unassailable.

I don't know. I don't think it's all for ratings. I think it's also like a liberal ideological commitment to pay for sins of the father. Which they think they can pursue for ratings. I have said, Megan, that whoever said compound interest is the greatest force in the universe,

it's been attributed to Einstein, but there's no real evidence that he said it. But whoever said compound interest is the greatest force in the universe. It's been attributed to Einstein, but there's no real evidence that he said it. But whoever said compound interest is the greatest force in the universe has never encountered white guilt. It is a force of nature that has damaged this country. Take just affirmative action, race-based preferences, the lowering of standards in order to achieve some sort of diversity on college campuses. Studies have shown when you lower the standards, you increase the likelihood of the kid dropping out of school. And when the kid drops out of school, he or she is pissed off. They wonder why the school admitted me in the first place if I wasn't able to do the work. Then they have debt. They accuse teachers of being racist. They accuse

the schools of being racist. You've not achieved anything other than take somebody, to use a baseball analogy, out of double A ball and put him in the major leagues where he got his brains beaten in. Had you let him alone, he would have gradually gotten to the major leagues at a pace that he could handle given the fact that he had a substandard K through 12 education. That's what's going on here. And I've seen it over and over again. I saw it when I was in college, the kids that they admitted often with, in my opinion, stats and scores that should not have put him in there. Many of them dropped out, and they end up being angry, and they have this whole philosophy about how racist America is. Why did the school admit you if they were racist? We're all in left-wing.

I went to Brown, which is an Ivy League left-wing school. You're telling me all these professors are racist. They flunked you because you were black? That is how a lot of these students felt when they didn't do well because they were put on a track that they couldn't keep up. All because of people who feel that just diversity is good soup. I have a good friend who lives in Cleveland. I've known him for 40 years. He's as left-wing as you can get. Professor at a law school. And some years ago, he was talking about the importance of diversifying the student body by admitting black students by lowering the scores. And I

said, you're going to rule the day. Fast forward a few years later, I'm in his house, he's grading papers, and he's yelling and screaming. I come in, I said, what's the matter? He said, these kids just... I said, are these the black students that you admitted under race-based preferences? And if a white person can turn even whiter, he did. That's funny. You know, the thing about affirmative action, I talked about this on an earlier podcast, but I thought it was a good idea when I was younger because I thought, okay, it's important for everybody to have the races mix. I think that's one of the ways we get rid of racism is by exposing, you know, more good people to more good people of other races and seeing, you know, they're not, they're not other eyes. They're not scary. They're not, they're just like everybody

else. We're all humans. Um, but then when I started to really read up on what happens with these admissions is it's not good for the black students who you think are being given a leg up, but really you're setting them up to fail. As you pointed out, they're judged by others because everyone assumes that they checked a box and not all of them did, right? So it kind of hurts the ones who got in on their own merit. And then they get there, they can't handle the work in a lot of circumstances because they're competing against people whose scores were always much higher, that they're two standard deviations below their brethren on the SAT scores. And so they struggle,

same way I would have if I got into Harvard instead of Syracuse. But I went where I probably belonged. And the thing is, what the studies say, Larry, you tell me, but it was basically saying that what then happens is, because they've gone to a university whose workload they can't necessarily handle, they all wind up majoring in African-American studies. Whereas if they'd gone to a school like Syracuse, like mine, which is fine, right? It was not top two years, no Brown. They could have been a scientist. They could have majored in something that actually would lead to a very good paying job, which majoring in African-American studies most likely will not. Well, and that's right. And I saw it again with my own eyes. I recall a student majoring in pre-med,

didn't do that well, then majored in med tech, didn't do that well. Next thing you know, the major was changed to something else, to something else, to something else. You didn't do these kids any favor by doing this. And I also agree with you, Megan, when I first heard the term affirmative action, it just seemed fair to me. It just seemed like good soup. And there's no question that I benefited from that. I mean, I got into very good schools. I don't know whether I would have gotten into them had I not been Black, but I know I would have gone somewhere. There are 7,000 colleges and universities in this country, and I would have gone somewhere. And once or twice, every now and then, I get a phone call from somebody black, angry at me on

the radio saying, how dare you oppose affirmative action when you admit that you benefited from it? And I said, yes, but don't tell me that I would not have been successful. But for affirmative action, Larry Elder would be working the deep fry at McDonald's. It's ridiculous. And that's what you meant when you talk about the suspicion that you didn't really earn it. There's an asterisk there for people that supposedly went through with race based preferences. And I resent that. There's a guy named Peter Kersenow. I know you know who he is. He's on the U.S. Civil Rights Commission. He's black. And he and I practiced law in Cleveland when I worked for a large law firm I went work for a large law firm. He worked for a large law firm. It turned out that he refused to put his race down on the application when he did his SAT.

And when he applied for colleges for law schools, refused to put his put his race down. And as a result, they didn't know he was black. He ended up going to Cleveland State, which is a regional law school. He killed, he ended up graduating at the top of his class and ends up going to a very fine law school, just as you did, a very fine law firm, just as you did. You went to Jones Day, I believe, and I was at Dwyer Sanders, and they were, in terms of prestige and power and clout, on the same wave. So you ended up the same place I ended up. Peter Kersenow ended up the same place I ended up. He just didn't have to go through this serious kind of artificial boost that a lot of other people did. So you're not helping anything. You're hurting the economy. You're hurting the tax base because a lot of students just drop out of law school. They don't then say, well, maybe I should go to accounting school. Maybe I should go to engineering school. A lot of them just drop out because they're angry because they feel that the man has has cheated them One of the students I went to school with When I was at Brown I ended up being in Cleveland years later

I'm at the racetrack and I see one of the guys at Brown who dropped out and I went up to him I said hey Roland what's going on? And he was exactly the same way, except angrier. And he was mad at this, mad at that, didn't have a job, sort of didn't have a job, was kind of vague about what he was doing. And I'm telling you, the system made him that way. Had he gone to a regional, a college or a less competitive college, he would have been just fine. He would not have been angry. He would not have had this whole theory about how the man held him down. I love the way you phrase that, because there was a point in my life in which I realized hard work can get me what I want. Hard work can get me where I want to go. I almost wrote my first

book and called it Out Hustle, right? Because that's the key to getting to the top. I wasn't the smartest lawyer at Jones Day, but I was absolutely the hardest worker. I mean, there was no way my opposing counsel, most of whom went to Harvard and Yale, all these like white shoe law firm or law schools, University of Chicago, there was no way they were going to beat me in court because I would study harder and I would know all the cases and I would know exactly what part of the case they were going to cite and I would know a rebuttal to it. And if it required me to stay up all night, which it did, I would do it. And that's what I learned. If I can out hustle anybody, you know, if I just put in the elbow grease in the time. And I guess if you if you think about it, affirmative action and similar programs take away

the learning of that lesson. And eventually, these people leave the college education system, they go out into the real world, whether it's somebody like me, a woman who maybe gets a hand up for that or an African American person. And the standards then become uniform. They move, they go out into the real world, whether it's somebody like me, a woman who maybe gets a hand up for that, or an African-American person. And, and the standards then become uniform. I mean, at least I don't know how they are right now, given what we're going through as a country, but normally your boss is not going to promote you if you're not a hard worker and there are hard workers around you, or if your, your work product is weaker than your colleagues. And they, and in that circumstance, I don't know they care about identity politics. They really don't. You know, Megan, after I practiced law for a few years at

Squire Sanders, I became a headhunter, a legal headhunter, and I placed lawyers with law firms and corporations. And as a result, I would interact with a lot of other headhunters who did other fields. And the consensus was real easy, what employers wanted. They wanted somebody who at least has finished high school, who can read, write, and compute at grade level, who will not sass the boss, who will show up on time and be respectful. And we'll take it from there. We'll train them from there.

But in California where I am, 85% of black students cannot read at state levels of proficiency. 80% of Hispanic kids cannot. It's not the lack of money. They don't care what kind of system you have, you're toast. And we're not telling our kids about the importance of at least graduating from high school and making sure that your diploma means that you can read, write, and compute at grade level. Even the kids who do graduate from some of these urban high schools, Kelly, cannot read, write, and compute at grade level. And when they go to a community college or a four-year college, they've got to take remedial reading, remedial math. It is unacceptable. There are 13,

13, Megan, 13 public high schools in Baltimore where 0% of kids can do math at grade level, and another half a dozen where only 1% can. Now, Baltimore is a city that has been run by Democrats and recently been run by Blacks. When Freddie Gray died in police custody in Baltimore in 2015, I believe it was, the mayor was Black. The head of the police department was Black. City council, 100% Democrat, majority Black. The state attorney who brought charges against the six officers was Black. Three of the six officers was black. The judge before whom two of the officers tried their case was black, found them not guilty, by the way. The U.S. Attorney General at the time, Loretta Lynch, was black, as was the President of the United States.

So all these black people running the system, and we're talking about systemic racism? Scotty, beam me up. Coming up in one second, I'm going to ask Larry about some of these systemic claims when it comes to housing, when it comes to education, and indeed, when it comes to policing in the United States of America. That's coming up in one minute. They look back, you know, folks who are telling us that all these systems, right, it's not it's not just criminal justice. We heard a lot of that over the past year, but all these systems are systemically racist. They'll tie it in large part to, well, housing and education, right? They'll start with housing. They'll take you back to the 1940s, the GI Bill, which helped the white vets, but not the black vets.

And suddenly the white vets had nice homes and good jobs and the black veterans didn't. And redlining where they kept blacks out of many suburban neighborhoods on purpose. And sort of, you know, they made black people fight with one hand tied behind their backs and made it really tough for them to catch up when it came to a nice house, a good job, a good education. And they wound up living in areas that were not that prosperous. So schools are pretty crappy because they're based on tax dollars. So they wound up living in areas that were not that prosperous. So schools are pretty crappy because they're based on tax dollars. So they don't have good supplies. They don't have great teachers and they don't have necessarily engaged parents because they're having to work two jobs and they don't have time to spend with their kids after school or in the

summers and so on and so forth. So it's all tied. This is the argument, you know, that it's all tied together the way, you know, that those numbers you just listed off in Baltimore, there's a reason that they're that low. And you have to go back decades to really understand the whole story. I disagree with that strongly. Barack Obama got elected in 2008. I'm old school. I get the LA Times, New York Times tossed in my house. So the day he got elected, I bend over and I look at all these pictures on the front pages of both these newspapers, colored pictures of Black parents holding their kids crying, saying, I can now say and be honest, if you work hard, you can be all

that you can be. And I was on the air that day and I said, suppose Obama had lost. Are you telling me you've been lying to your kids? You don't really believe that if you invest in yourself, you can make it? My parents told me this my whole life, Megan, and I always knew it. I always knew if I busted my tail, kept clean, didn't make bad moral mistakes, I would be just fine and I would excel. And that's exactly what happened. And that's exactly what's supposed to happen. If you put in the time, at least graduate from high school and make sure that your diploma is meaningful and don't make the bad moral mistakes that I outlined, you'll be just fine in America. And do you think Obama tells Sasha and

Malia they're going to be held back by the man no matter how hard you work, you're still going to face systemic racism? Do you really believe he feels that way? It's a lie. It's a lie. It's a con that the media has been pushing, as I said, for ratings and Democrats push it for votes. This whole business about systemic racism on the part of the police. Give me the evidence. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Before we get to the cops, let's stay on academics for just one minute in housing because, you know, you look at Obama, he seems like he's the top of the spectrum, right? Like what about the average person? What about the average kid who's in, you know, a not great neighborhood in inner city Baltimore, where by the way, I lived in Baltimore for a

number of years, who doesn't have any advantage. He's just born into this system where maybe he has a father in this household. He has a crappy public school. He has a teacher who's half-assing it. He doesn't see it. There's no one around him who's gone to college, right? So if you can see it, you can be it. How does that kid find empowerment in the way the kids in Palo Alto, California, most of whom are white, most of whose parents are billionaires, do? Never in the history of the world has information education been more accessible. Pick up your freaking smartphone and Google whatever you want. Go to YouTube. Look at videos of Thomas Sowell. Look at videos of Walter Williams. Look at videos of Shelby Steele. Look at videos of Candace Owen.

Look at videos of Larry Elder. There's plenty of influences, positive influences around you if you open your eyes and look. Walter Williams once told me this. I don't know the key to success other than hard work. If there's another formula, please tell me what it is. I've never seen it. You're not responsible for the cards that you're dealt, but you have a moral duty, a moral obligation to pick them up and play them to the best of your ability. If you do that, if you are perceived as trying hard, people will help you. They will come, they will help people who are trying to help themselves. You sit around feeling sorry for yourself, the results are going to be pretty obvious. What about the, and I definitely want to get to police in a second,

but what about the housing situation and the history of redlining and the unwillingness to give Black people mortgages in many places in the country, which we then tried to address? But do you feel like it's fixed, like it's been evened out? Because you hear a lot about the housing disparity. No, no, it's been evened out in terms of if I am credit worthy and I apply for a loan at Bank of America or a regional bank or a community bank, I'm going to get that loan. It turns out that banks are more likely to approve the application of an Asian would-be borrower than a white would-be borrower because the Asian borrower, even though the average Asian who applies it may make less money than the average white person, their credit record is better. You look at the turndown rate of community banks, black-owned banks. It is often higher than the turndown rate of non-black-owned banks because the community banks are more thinly capitalized. It's just a lie. When Barack Obama was a private lawyer, he joined with other lawyers and filed a class action lawsuit against Citicorp on behalf of, I believe it was about 186,

if I'm not mistaken, plaintiffs who claimed that they applied for loans and they were turned down. Well, CityCorp settled and gave them their loans. Fast forward, virtually every single one of these homeowners either lost the home, went into bankruptcy, which confirmed why CityCorp was not giving them the loan. They did not meet the criteria

to be able to pay the loan back and the failure to keep the house proved that. So it's just not true. What about the New York Times in last year had an example of discrimination. It made national news. It was a couple, I don't know if you remember the story, but it was a couple named Abena and Alex Horton. They live near Jacksonville, Florida, predominantly white neighborhood. The woman's black, the man's white. And they, I'm just reading off of the excerpt here, they expected their home to appraise for about 450,000 bucks. The appraiser instead gave it a value of 330,000. So they got a second appraisal. Then they took down their family photos and they put up photos of the man's, the Mr. Horton's white family members. The black mom that the female half of the couple took their six year old son on a shopping trip. She was out of the house and the white dad opens the door for the appraiser.

The new guy gives the home, which, again, had been previously valued a week or so earlier at 330. Now it gets appraised at 465,000, more than a 40% increase. This is the type of example that people point to to say, you can't put data and stats on everything to explain, to say there's no more racism in the system. That's a systemic problem. He's not the only appraiser who does that. This is what a black family is up against that increases the wage gap and the value gap and the, you know, their, their housing improvement. And then as a result, their education improvement. Well, I always approach these kinds of things on a case by case basis. I need to know a whole lot more about the, about the circumstances. I can say this. Uh, D.L. Hughley making a similar complaint. The comedian, he was selling his house and the the realtor told him to take down his pictures.

And he got mad and went public and considered that to be an act of racism. I've sold several houses. The realtors always say take down pictures. I have white friends who've sold houses. They always say take down pictures because they want the prospective buyer to imagine what he or she would look like in that house. That's exactly right. They literally just told me that because we're putting our place on the market soon. They literally just told me and Doug, take down all your pictures. Now, again, that could be particular to me. And Megan, you're white and you're stunningly beautiful, and they're still telling you to take down your pictures. So what does that say? I mean, honestly, these things have to be dealt with on a case-by-case basis.

And it's as if, Megan, nothing bad ever happens to white people. I was watching a special recently on Thaddeus Arbuckle. Do you know who that is? Who is that? Thaddeus Arbuckle was a comedian, a silent film star in the 20s. He was huge.

He was a massive, massive star making a million dollars a year when nobody made a million dollars a year. At a party, he was falsely accused of rape, went to trial, eventually found not guilty. His career completely destroyed. Even though he was found not guilty, nobody would ever hire him. And he's white. I watched a lot of forensic files, that silly program on HLN about murders. And frequently you'll find some white guy falsely charged, went to jail eight, nine years, got out of prison, and nobody knows about it. That's why I was trying to talk to you about the cops. Cops kill more unarmed whites every year than unarmed blacks. But I bet you most people can't even name an unarmed white person who's been killed by the cops because it does not drive the media's narrative, does not drive the Democrat narrative. Well, and that's what we've been watching. By the way, I mean, if Fatty Arbuckle's first injustice

was being named Fatty, we shouldn't skip over that. He was insecure about that too, by the way. In today's day and age, you're supposed to take that as a compliment because body positivity. Okay, whatever. By the way, he was a genius. I mean, this guy, he hired Buster Keaton,

gave him one of his first jobs. Who's the one that did The Great Dictator? Oh, Charlie Chaplin, sure, sure. That's how big a deal Fatty Arbuckle was. He gave those two stars their first jobs. He was a major star and got jacked over, got brought down by the newspaper that kept running these lurid headlines, and he was completely innocent. So don't tell me nothing bad ever happens to white people. So but one of the things that you've been railing about quite rightly is the media bias and how they create a narrative that people just accept, especially if it plays into the white guilt.

And that I think explains I know it's controversial. I don't care. I believe that is what explains the vast majority of unrest we've had in this country over the past year. Am I wrong? No, you're not wrong. As I said, Democrats need to have systemic racism for votes. They need to convince 13% of the electorate, that's black people, that the number one problem facing you are not rotten schools like in Baltimore, not cops who are pulling back for fear of being called racist. No, your number one problem is the man. Your number one problem is racism. This is what people are being taught. And this business about systemic racism by the police, my goodness, I love sports, Negan. And one of my favorite players is LeBron James.

And the reason I like him so much is that when the game is over, he's he's like a surgeon. He will analyze what happened using data, using stats. It's beautiful to watch. But Jacob Jacob Blake gets shot in the back. George Floyd dies. They put a mic in his in LeBron James's face, and it's all emotion. No facts, no data, no stats, just, oh. When Armand Arbery, the black man who was jogging in Georgia, got killed, LeBron James says, we black people are afraid to leave our houses for fear of being hunted down. I mean, really? 7,000 homicides, about 15,000 homicides in this country every year, half of them are Black victims. Almost all of them are killed by other Black people.

As I said before, if you look at police stats, studies, there's a Black Harvard professor named Roland Fryer. He just knew that the police were killing Black people just because they were Black and decided to do a study about it because he was shocked nobody had done a study to corroborate it. And he found out that not only were the police not killing blacks just because they were black, the police were more hesitant, more reluctant to pull the trigger on a black suspect than a white suspect. He said it was the most shocking findings of my career. There was a long article on April 27, 2016, Washington Post. Decades of research show that cops are more hesitant, more reluctant to pull the trigger on the Black suspect

for fear of being called racist. And again, more unarmed whites every year are killed than unarmed Blacks. And when I give speeches, I often say, Megan, I have my mic in my hand. I say the line I just now told you, more unarmed whites are killed every year than unarmed blacks. And I say, name an unarmed white. And I drop the mic and I walk away for half a second, for 30 seconds and come back. And nobody can think of one. About two weeks ago, officer running at a suspect sees a man who matches a suspect in a backyard, shoots and kills the wrong man. Cop running was white. Suspect was white. Innocent man, white. Took place in Idaho two weeks ago. If you're just now hearing this, this is my point. Now, obviously it was covered, otherwise I wouldn't know about

it, but the media didn't make a big deal out of it. Two months ago, in here in California, Northern California, Megan, a Navy vet knelt on his neck for five minutes by a Northern California cop. The man dies. There's even video. If you're hearing this for the first time, that's my point. The man was a Filipino-American, not Black, and therefore did not advance the agenda. But the fact pattern mirrors that of George Floyd.

Nobody gave a damn. Right. And the thing about George Floyd is it happened in an election year. I mean, I've been in this business long enough to see whenever something happens. And as you say, sadly, they happen way too often because police have a difficult job and some people resist arrest and there are some bad cops out there. But it's always in an election year that they find one case to blow up, to put on loop, and people are being manipulated. And by the way, then when you try to cite data like you just did, you know, like, hey, the cops make 11 million arrests a year. You know, a very, very, very small percentage of those wind up in some sort of altercation or certainly in a death of somebody. And it depends on which study you're looking at, but under 4%, and according to some,

under 1% of the black homicides in this case, in this country are committed by cops killing black men in an arrest situation. So you start citing that, and that's racist. Facts, data are racist now because the cameras, the media, the news anchors have told everyone this is a massive problem coast to coast. And that's the fact pattern people care most about, a cop killing an unarmed black person. I think one-third of 1% involve unarmed blacks being killed by cops. Again, most of the black people killed in this country are killed by other black people. The number one cause of preventable death for young white men, accidents like car accidents or drowning accidents in swimming pools. The number one cause of death, preventable or non-preventable for young Blacks, homicide. And again, almost always at the hands of another young Black person. You were talking about

how the media manipulates. Here's a big one. This is about the election. I'm watching CNN after Trump gave his speech at CPAC. And one of the anchors referred to President Trump as purveying, quote, the big lie. And Ryan Salisa, the senior editor of CNN, had a big article about the large number of Republicans, 75% that believed the election was one of, quote, widespread voter fraud, close quote. In other words, they believe, quote, the voter fraud, close quote. In other words, they believe, quote, the big lies,

says CNN. Now, for four years, Hillary has called Donald Trump illegitimate. She even used the S word, said it was stolen. Turns out 78% of Democrats believe that the Russian interference, quote, changed the outcome of the election, close quote, according to Gallup. So a greater percentage of Democrats believe the 2016 election was, quote, according to Gallup. So a greater percentage of Democrats believe the 2016 election was, quote, stolen. The Republicans believe the 2020 election was stolen. Republicans had far more grounds. Jay Johnson, the Department of Homeland Security, testified under oath about the 2016 election. There is zero evidence that the Russians' attempt to change vote tallies succeeded. There is zero evidence

that their attempt to influence the election changed the outcome of the election, yet 78% of Democrats believe that the Russian interference did just that. Does anybody can call Hillary a purveyor of, wait for it, the big lie? Has she been called a big liar? No, just Trump, even though Hillary said the same thing for four years with less grounds to say it. That's different. She's a Democrat. It's been it's it has been absurd. It's been so frustrating. And usually, Larry, I have to say I can laugh at it. You know, the double standards like people know, I think, you know, the media has exposed themselves, themselves, especially under Trump. But what I saw over the past nine months is downright dangerous.

I mean, it's really, truly downright dangerous. And I, I've heard you point out before that, I mean, it's dangerous in many ways, but one of the ways is, is that now a young black man getting pulled over by a police officer, getting stopped by a police officer goes in charged, believing something that may be totally untrue, right? And so it's almost setting people up for more confrontations that could lead to danger. I'll give you an example that illustrates what you're just now saying. There's a town outside of LA called Rialto. It's about 100,000 people and demographically pretty much mirrors the demographics of California. The cops were ordered to wear body cams a few years ago.

They didn't want to, but they were ordered to wear them. What happened? Police complaints against officers fell 90 percent because the civilians knew they were being recorded. They stopped lying on the officers. And as a result, officer use of force fell 50% because the civilians knew they were being watched. They behaved better. The cops, therefore, did not have to use the kind of force they normally would have to use because the civilians were being more compliant. Now, what does this tell you? It tells you that a whole lot of civilians are lying their asses off about the police. And when they were recorded, they stopped doing it. It's funny how, you know, the criminal justice system, we know that virtually

every defendant who gets arrested will wind up lying if they go to trial. I mean, it's just an assumption amongst us lawyers. We all know that. And yet at the arrest stage, we give everybody the benefit of the doubt. Nobody would ever lie upon being arrested. You know, and I realize we have a presumption of innocence. I'm just saying, like, we're so quick to say all defendants lie when we get into the courtroom, but we'll never say that when we look at the cops with the would-be defendants on the streets. Well, how about Michael Brown? Hands up, don't shoot, said his friend Dorian Johnson, complete and total lie. The evidence showed just the opposite. The cop did exactly what the cop was supposed to do. Yet this hands up, don't shoot line is still being said. Facts don't apparently

appear to matter to a lot of people if it doesn't advance their agenda. You know, the media, this is a line from Uncle Tom, your movie, media claims it's for black people, but what it means is it's for liberal black people. And one of the great examples that you have in the movie is of Ben Carson saying something and just getting excoriated for it. And then you flash back to Barack Obama saying the exact same thing and crickets. Exactly. If that doesn't tell you about media bias, I don't know what does. You're talking about Ben Carson's first day at HUD, where he gave a speech comparing slaves to immigrants.

He said in many ways they're the same. New culture, foreign language, yada, blah, et cetera, got hammered, especially in the black press. How dare this black man not appreciate the difference between a slave who came here involuntarily and an immigrant who came voluntarily. Harump, harump, harump. Barack Obama said the same thing over a dozen times, almost verbatim, nobody said Jack.

Well, you and Ben Carson and Candace and Clarence Thomas, and I could go on, Glenn Lowry, you know, Shelby and Eli Steele, you're all in the same boat, right? And that's what Uncle Tom is about, that if you're a black person who's an independent thinker and winds up choosing a more conservative worldview, it may or may not be Republican, but it would be, I would definitely say more conservative and questioning of sort of these democratic lines. You do, you get called all the worst words. And it's really like this especially

nefarious category in the minds of, I don't know, I mean, I was going to say white liberals, but maybe it's white and black liberals. Who do you get more pushback from? Both, but blacks are probably a little more aggressive. It really is an amazing con. Here you have a system, welfare state, that destabilizes the family. Here you have a guy, Larry Elder and these other conservatives, trying to tell people the truth. And rather than say, okay, let me take a look at it,

I'm the bad guy. So not only is the left pursuing bad policies, but they're able to convince the people who are being hurt by these policies that this guy standing over here, this black conservative, he's the enemy. That's the ideal con. A con is to, first of all, cheat your victim and then convince the victim that he hasn't been cheated. And if the victim does think he's been cheated, he's been cheated by somebody other than the person that really cheated him. Genius.

It's so true. And it's like you have a media reinforcing this entire narrative, that there is racism at every turn and that any black person who questions that narrative is self-hating. I've been called that as a woman who questions some of this feminist messaging, that that's my internalized misogyny, Larry. That's what's really at play because I can't just have an independent thought on these issues because of my lady parts. Yeah, I've been called a self-loather too. And I always tell people the same thing. Once a guy called me up very angry and I said, why am I the enemy? When did that happen? You and I can't have a disagreement about the level

of racism without me being an Uncle Tom in a sellout. You and I can't have a disagreement about whether or not the police are engaging in systemic racism without me being a sellout and Uncle Tom. When did that happen? Dean Baquet is the executive editor of the New York Times, the first black executive editor. And one of his jobs is to hire columnists. He hired Brett Stevens, a Trump-hating Republican who wrote a column, his first column, where he was skeptical about climate change. And Dean Baquet said a whole bunch of people contacted the New York Times. They were angry. How dare you hire this man? And Dean McKay publicly said, it's come to my conclusion that the left does not want to hear reasonable disagreement. He said this, the left does not want to hear reasonable disagreement. Now, when the executive

editor of the New York Times says the left does not want to hear reasonable disagreement, we've got a problem here. And that's why you get people. Well, you know, you get James Bennett, who published that Tom Cotton op ed, fired. You get people like Barry Weiss, who was a liberal. She is a liberal, but didn't accept everything. It was kind of anti-woke, effectively pushed out. They bullied her to the point where, as a sane human, she was like,

well, this isn't for me. And then you've got, now it's gotten even worse, Larry, because now you're seeing these platforms erase you, right? There was the one book on when Harry became Sally on the transgender issue that just got removed quietly from Amazon. Amazon just pulled the documentary on Clarence Thomas called Created Equal. Jason Reilly, the Wall Street Journal, he came out and said, what Amazon has done is a disservice to anyone, black or white, who's interested in the rich history of black Americans. But are they, or is it only liberal black Americans? Because Clarence Thomas is a history maker himself. Right.

And Megan, take my film, Uncle Tom, 8.9 on IMDb International Movie Database. Of the 15 films that were nominated this year for a Best Documentary, none of them has a rating as high as mine. And only one of them has more reader reviews than mine indicating the degree to which people have seen the film. Yet completely, totally shut out from the Academy Award nominations. Not one word written about the

film in Daily Variety or in The Hollywood Reporter that follows these movies. The film, in terms of finances, has done seven times its cost and counting. So it's a financial success. It's a critical success, but it's been completely ignored by the Hollywood community. And by the way, if you haven't seen it, you must see it. Now I watched it when it, when it first came out. And, um, and then I just recently watched it again via a link that my team sent, but how can they see it? Because everybody needs to see this. I feel like they should show this in every class in America. I wish they would. And maybe someday I'll get me a benefactor so I can put it out free. I'd love to do that. But you can see it easily on

UncleTom.com. It's on iTunes. It's on Amazon Prime. It's also on Walmart online. So it's easy to find. UncleTom.com might be the easiest place to start. I want to talk about a couple bits in there. While we're on the subject of the media let me play this one clip because in there you address how the media brainwashes people and racism is seen everywhere around every corner it's like the monster when you were a kid it's everywhere you know when you go to bed at night it's under your bed it's in your closet um exactly right so you sort of address that and the effect that it's happening here's a this is like a two minute clip. Listen, I grew up being told my disadvantages that this country is unfair to black people. You're black. You're not going to be able to do it. You can't get this. You can't get that. You can't get bank loans.

When you walk into a bank, you will get a loan more easily if you are a white guy. The ideology is implanted into you subconsciously to believe these things. We don't teach our children to have confidence. It's like we're brainwashed to think, what is it because I'm black? Why are they looking at me like that? How many of you feel judged? How many of you feel feared on site when people see you? Show of hands.

We teach them to be scared of this country, to be scared of the world that they live in. It's like a cancerous plague in the mind of Black Americans. You're trying to say that this country does not specialize in racism and bigotry. I am saying that racism exists. I am saying that the United States of America has a luxury.

You have the luxury to be cavalier about it. When you are angry, it's very easy to be deceived. It's very sad to see Black people operate in that. There's a lot of members in the Black community who they are operating in very negative energy. I'm letting you know that. I call out racism. That is maddening to me, and I'm crying about it because it's crazy. If you keep yourself in this constant state of, woe is me, I'm disadvantaged, I'll never accomplish anything, then you won't accomplish anything.

It will be a self-fulfilling prophecy for you. If you determine that you can't be successful or that you're oppressed, then you are oppressed. That's the power of the mind. Believe that you can't, you won't,'re oppressed, then you are oppressed. That's the power of the mind. You believe that you can't, you won't. You sure as hell won't try. And Black America has been programmed to believe that we can't. The country was founded on racism and bigotry, David. If you turn on a radio morning show. You African-American, the cops show up. We don't know if we're going to make it out alive.

I'm sorry. The message is clear. If you broke and whited America, you're wasting your white. And that's what's being fed into their community. White supremacy is the backbone of political and economic disenfranchisement of black folks. So long as black people continue to have their psyche filled by that nonsense, we won't have an awakening. It's so powerful. The film, the whole film is like that folks,

the whole film. And, and they go through all of the topics that Larry and I are discussing in a, in a very informative way. You will learn and you will feel something. I mean, we always just say that the secret to good TV was you have to make the audience feel something. Well, I felt a lot watching that entire hour and 46 minute film. And that, you know, the point at the end was a very good one, Larry, which is like, as long as people just keep getting the spoon fed to them, and it's ubiquitous, how do they get out from behind that wall? How do we get people, you know, more people over to the promised land of believing in self empowerment, not seeing themselves as a victim at every turn and working hard and powering through?

You just have to tell them the truth and give them the facts. I'll give you something that I've been saying recently. In 2007, Barack Obama, of course, running for president, and Gallup did a poll to find out the extent to which Americans would not vote for a certain category of candidate. He was pursuing the nomination against Hillary. On the other side, the two major candidates were John McCain and Mitt Romney. And Gallup asked whether Americans would not vote for a black person, referring to Obama, would not vote for a woman, referring to Hillary, would not vote for a woman, referring to Romney, would not vote for a man who would be 72 years old when he became president, referring to John McCain. Turned out 5% of Americans said under

no circumstances would they vote for a black person. 11% said that about a woman. 24% said that about a Mormon. 42% said they would not vote for somebody who would be 72 years old when he became president, referring to John McCain. So Obama had a lower burden than these three more experienced, better known white politicians. Wow. I mean, you know, you say you got to get the facts and data out to people, but it's such a small group who is willing to do it. I mean, you are empowered in a way that I think a lot of people with white skin don't feel they can be, right?

Because they'll all be called racist. Not that it's pleasant to get called an Uncle Tom, but I mean, you know, you get called a racist as a white person and it's a career ender, right? Because they'll all be called racist. Not that it's pleasant to get called an Uncle Tom, but I mean, you know, you get called a racist as a white person and it's a career ender, right? It's like everything you have could go away, especially right now. So getting the message out right now, it feels harder than ever. But you tell me, because I feel like maybe some of the backlash to the insanity we've seen with the critical race theory and the divisive messaging everywhere. Maybe some of the good backlash to that might be a more open mindedness to to what you're saying, to what Thomas Sowell, thank God, is still on this earth saying and others, you know, with similar messaging. Well, I hope so. I've had dinner with him many, many times. We talk about these kinds of things.

And I said to him once, my understanding is that the minimum wage probably has been the most studied aspect in economics. He said, probably so. Probably more studies have been done about minimum wage than anything else. And I said, and the overwhelming consensus is that these laws ought not exist and that they hurt people. He said, that's right. I said, why can't you win this argument? He said, Larry, it's because most people have never heard the argument. They don't know that it hurts people who are unskilled. They don't know about all these studies. They don't know that employers, when they're forced to do this, will reduce hours, will raise prices. They don't know the information. As a result, they are ill-informed. Now, that's the problem. If you don't even have the data. I gave a speech once, and often I'm giving speeches before predominantly white audiences. And I look around and I see a black man in the back, Megan. His arms are crossed. He does not look me and he says, I am angry. I thought he was going to say he's angry about all the stuff I was saying. He said, I thought I was ill-informed. I did not know there were more unarmed white people killed every year than unarmed blacks. I did not know the percentage said about the opinion poll, that there were more people unwilling to vote for a woman, unwilling to vote for a Mormon, unwilling to vote for an older man than willing to vote for a black man. And he went over all the things I said in my speech. And he said, I consider myself to be a smart guy and I am angry

at the sources of news I've been paying attention to and I'm going to change. And this guy was about maybe 70 years old. Now, this man went his whole life watching CNN, hanging out with the same people, finishing each other's sentences, never knew anybody like me, never exposed anybody like me. And in that hour speech, I literally changed the way he saw things. Coming up in one second, you know, there's a new push by the Biden administration for reparations to be paid to people of color in this country in response to slavery and other awful events in our history. And it's more likely than ever to actually happen. So Larry Elder testified before Congress on this. I'll ask him what he thinks. But before we get to that, I want to bring you a feature we have called You Can't Say

That. You guys know this feature. I love this one. It's time for another edition of You Can't Say That or Think That or Read That in this particular circumstance. Oh, wait, this is America. And this time, well, it's a little bit complicated. So bear with me.

This is a story about America in 2021. It is a story that no one can beat. And to think that I saw it on Mulberry Street. Yes, we're talking about Dr. Seuss and why your kids will not be able to read that exact line about Mulberry Street anymore, unless you already have the book on your shelf. Earlier this week, it was Dr. Seuss's birthday, but Dr. Seuss Day, which was the name given to March 2nd and was called as such by past presidents like Obama and Trump, gone, gone this year. It's over. Hope you enjoyed it. Instead, President Biden called it Read Across America Day. Well, that's boring. It doesn't have the same ring to it. And we got a statement from Dr. Seuss's estate saying in part, Dr. Seuss Enterprises, working with a panel of experts, including educators,

reviewed our catalog of titles and made the decision last year to cease publication and licensing of the following titles. And to think that I saw it on Mulberry Street is one. If I Ran the Zoo, that's like one of the most popular ones. McGallagher's Pool, On Beyond Zebra, Scrambled Eggs Super, and The Cat's Quizzer. Say goodbye. They say that these books portray people in ways that are hurtful and wrong. Yes, these six books now, done with a quote, include images that are now viewed as racist. And maybe they are.

Who knows? It's in the eye of the beholder. But these books were originally published more than 60 years ago. 60. So maybe they could just change the offending images or just let people try to grapple with them as they have been for six decades rather than discontinue the books entirely. But that's not all. Because Dr. Seuss has actually been under fire for a while. The Conscious Kids Library, yes, that's a thing, please never let me take my child there, did a study in 2019 and found that of the 2,240

identified human characters in Dr. Seuss books, just 2% were people of color. How dare he? Well, I bet that's not true. If you add in all the blue people and the red people, like the orange people and the yellow people, I like, what do they mean by color? I like, this is so absurd. We always do this, right? We take the modern day lens. We apply it to, you know, an, a historical time in which it will make no sense and decide to play like we're offended. By the way, that's not all, because in 2019, Learning for Justice, the educational arm of the Southern Poverty Law Center, published an article that took aim at the writing in a specific Dr. Seuss book called The Sneetches, which is a satirical story of how self-defeating racism and bigotry is. They found the book was not, quote, anti-racist because it relies on a race-neutral approach.

Well, you know what a sin that is now. You must see color everywhere. And if you don't, then what you see is racism. So look, is it cancel culture that six books having racist imagery, you know, that they're, they're gone, that they're not, they're not being offered anymore, anymore. Not exactly, but the anti-racist extremists have had the knives out for Dr. Seuss for a while now. And if you say the star-bellied snitches aren't any better than the plain-bellied snitches, well, you can't say that. More with Larry in one second.

Right now, given Joe Biden being in the White House, he's trying to bring back. I mean, I don't know if I'll call it the welfare state, but he's certainly trying to push welfare again in this latest COVID relief bill. And he's doing it kind of quietly, but it's in there. It's 100 percent in there. And there's been a quiet debate in conservative circles about why there isn't more pushback on it. And also, you know, the $15 minimum wage was dropped from that proposal, but it's gaining in popularity. It's going to come back in another forum, maybe a standalone bill, because it was basically just the parliamentarian said, you can't shove that one in this bill. But they want to raise the minimum wage. This was also new to me. I only learned this over the summer about the minimum wage and how it was designed originally to keep Blacks out of the

workforce. Blacks who didn't have necessarily high-scale labor to offer were happy to work for smaller numbers so they could support their families, and that was fine by them. And then the so-called savior of the minimum wage got them out of work entirely because they didn't have the skill set to justify those kinds of numbers. It's interesting. We have Black History Month every February, but most black people have no idea that the minimum wage was designed by a couple of politicians to exclude black people from competing against white workers. Gun control, also a move to make sure that newly freed slaves did not get guns. That famous Supreme Court case called Dred Scott, the Chief Justice Roger Taney wrote, if we allow black people to become humans,

they could get guns and Lord knows what they would do to us. So all of these policies, Planned Parenthood, Margaret Sanger was a eugenicist that certain people ought not exist if they were poor, if many of them were black. And here you have all of these policies, Planned Parenthood,

gun control, minimum wage promoted by the by the left when many of these programs started in order to get black people. It's really something. Well, and you look at in the movie, the history of the Democratic Party, which I mean, frankly, was the racist party all along. I mean, through every massive race clash that we've had, the Democrats were on the wrong side. And somehow now they've convinced 90 plus percentage of the Black population to vote for them and that they're the party for Black people. So how did that happen? It's a good question. You know, I just testified a couple of weeks ago at the House Judiciary Committee on reparations. And of course, I testified against it couple of weeks ago at the House Judiciary Committee on reparations. And, of course, I testified against it. And one of the things I wrote is why should anybody pay a dime other than Democrats?

Dinesh D'Souza estimates that only a handful out of 350,000 and by handful, we're talking about maybe eight slave owners were Republicans. Three hundred fifty thousand slave owners in 1864, a million slaves and almost all of the slave owners were Republicans. 350,000 slave owners in 1860, 4 million slaves, and almost all of the slave owners were Democrats. Democrats founded the KKK. Democrats voted against the 13th Amendment, the 14th Amendment, the 15th Amendment. As a percentage of the party, more Republicans voted for the Civil Rights Act of 1954 than did Democrats. All these racist lawmakers and politicians like George Wallace and Bull Connor, who sicked dogs and water hoses on black and white civil rights workers, these were all Democrats. So if anybody should pay any reparations, it ought to be Democrats, specifically white Democrats. Only about 5% of white people right now have any sort of

generational connection to slavery. So 95% of whites either had nothing to do with slavery or their ancestors fought and died for the North or were injured for the North. Do they get an exemption? I mean, this is nuts. What about Obama? Obama's father lived in Kenya, an area of active slave trading. His mom's family owned slaves. Does Obama get a check or does he cut a check? Kamala Harris, her dad, Jamaican, he's admitted that his family owned slaves. Does Kamala Harris cut a check or does she get a check? When we paid reparations in the past, we paid them to the victims themselves or to their legal heirs. Good luck finding slave victims right now in their legal heirs. Slavery ended over 150 years ago. Let's knock it off. And yet you have even somebody like Barack Obama coming

out now suggesting it's time. Here's a clip of him in an exchange with Bruce Springsteen. So if you ask me, theoretically, are reparations justified? The answer is yes. The wealth of this country, the power of this country, was built in significant part on the backs of slaves. The systematic oppression and discrimination of black Americans resulted in black families not being able to build up wealth. And so this then brings us to, could you actually get that kind of justice? And what I saw during my presidency was that the politics of white resistance and resentment, all that made the prospect of actually proposing any kind of coherent, meaningful reparations program

struck me as politically not only a non-starter, but potentially counterproductive. Even though I was convinced the reparations was a non-starter during my presidency, I understand the argument of people I respect, like Ta-Nehisi Coates, that we should talk about it anyway. Wow. So, and they are. Biden's on a push for that right now, talking about reparations. And it sort of doesn't matter whether we get sort of the commission that's going to look into it.

He's like, we are looking into it. And what they say, Larry, is it doesn't necessarily mean we're going to cut a check. It means maybe we're going to sort of make historically black colleges free. Maybe we're going to sort of make historically black colleges free. Maybe we're going to sort of create lanes in some of these areas you and I have been talking about that are easier for blacks to get ahead in.

Megan, let me let me attack this this way. President Obama, when he was running his first interview with 60 Minutes was with Steve Croft. And it was my first time watching him have a detailed interview. And Croft said to him, Senator, if you don't win, will it be because of racism? And Megan, I sat back and I said, let's see how this Democrat answers this question. Because I know how Al Sharpton would have answered it. I know how Jesse Jackson would have answered it. How is this man going to answer it?

And he said, he gave a good answer, I think, didn't he? Yeah. He said, no, if I don't win, it will be because I have not articulated a vision that the American people can embrace. And I said, hallelujah, this is a guy who does not think of himself as a victim. Fast forward, the Cambridge police acted stupidly. If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon. We have our own problems in America. There's a town called Ferguson. He embraces Black Lives Matter. He invites Al Sharpton to the White House over, I think it's 70 times during his second term, because the politician Obama knows Black people have to be angry and convinced of this BS line that America is plagued by systemic racism. Otherwise,

they cannot win. They have not won the white vote since 1964. So the human being Obama knows he's a badass. He knows he's a world beater. He had a book out when he was in his 20s. He was president of the Harvard Law Review. This guy knows that nothing's going to hold him back. He knows it's a lie. And in 2016, his last full year of his presidency, he gives a speech at a black college and he says stuff like this. If you could be born anywhere, anytime, where would it be? When would it be? And he said it would be here and now because the opportunities are immense and all that stuff. That's the truth. He knows that. That's what he's telling Sasha and Malia. But he tells other people the opposite because he needs the vote. That's why he's done this pretty much 180

on reparations. Four years ago, when Coates and he had an interview, Obama was opposed to it. He said it was impractical, too divisive, too complicated. Now, all of a sudden, it's justified. Why? He needs to stay relevant. He's got to stay woke. Otherwise, he's a dinosaur. He's done. So Obama has to say this kind of crap, even though four years ago he said the opposite, even though as a human being, he knows it's a damn lie. There is a Harvard-educated sociologist named Orlando Patterson. He's still there. He's black. In the 90s, in the 90s, 1991, he said America, despite its flaws, is now the least racist majority white society in the world, provides more opportunities for blacks than any other country in the world, including all of those

of Africa. That was in the 90s. You're telling me right now things are worse than then? It's a joke, and it angers me because right now there's some kid sitting around not doing his homework, saying to himself, what's the point? Why should I do my homework? The man's going to hold me back anyway. Laziness is one of the hardest things in life to overcome. And all you've done is given people an excuse not to apply themselves. It's an outright crime what the left is doing to black people in this country. This is another point that you make in Uncle Tom. You had a wonderful, wonderful interview with the one and only Herman Cain, who I just adored. That was one of the biggest losses of

this whole COVID awfulness is we lost Herman. And he was just such a bright light. He just had a great way of communicating, make you feel better about everything and good sense of humor. And just, there was just a, I don't know, a lightness to him. And I love in the film where he talks about, the question was something like somebody asked him once,

how did you deal with race growing up when you did? And he said, I didn't. Let them focus on that. He talks about how he got a job at Burger King, I think. And he says he went to Whopper College, which is a real thing. And he just worked his ass off. And talks about being in the Navy too

in a circumstance he had where he could have gone. Well, here, we have the clip. Listen. I was working for the Department of the Navy. The same day that I started, another white gentleman named Robert started working there also. We had very similar jobs. So the first 12 months, I got outstanding performance, four quarters in a row.

The second year, outstanding performance, four quarters in a row. And Robert got outstanding performance. But Robert was getting his GS salary increase at least two months sooner than me. So I went to Wayne, my supervisor, and said, Robert and I are both doing a great job. He said, yeah. So why is he getting little increases quicker than me? He said, he has a master's degree. I said, oh, it's not because he's white? Nope. He has a master's degree. So you know what I did? I didn't get mad. I went and got me a master's degree. Went back, sat down with Wayne. I said, well, I got a master's degree. I said, next thing you know, I'm opening for a promotion. I said, keep me in mind.

See you around. And not long after that, they had a special project called the Rocket Assisted Projector. They had to have someone who was going to be the GS-13 supervisory mathematician to do the special ballistics on this rocket assisted projector. I got the promotion.

And I had eight white people working for me. It was all about performance, not the color of your skin. So since I now had that master's degree, and I had proved myself, I got the job. When I decided to leave Dallard, never forget the department head, and he called me up for an exit interview. And I'll never forget Russ. I think he's deceased now.

He said, you know, you have taught me something. I said, what? He said, I had never worked with a black person before. You taught me don't judge somebody by the color of their skin. I have the chills. You know, Megan, when I grew up, about six blocks from me was a guy, I'm going to call him Paul.

And we were very, very good friends. And the reason we were good friends is because he admired my academics. I admired his athleticism. I was not a good athlete, although I wished I were. He was not particularly good in school, although he probably wished as he was. And we helped each other. We complimented each other. So I go to college and I come back and my friend has changed his name to a Muslim name and he's angry at the world. Why? Well, he was a wonderful basketball player, Megan, but every time he'd come to practice late, coach would get on him. He'd tell the coach F you and the coach would play him anyway, because he was the best player and the coach wanted to win. But when all the colleges came to recruit my friend and they came, Duke, UCLA,

Marquette, all the major colleges, his coach, the high school coach, told these coaches the truth because he needed to maintain his credibility with them. So they told him, the coach told these prospective coaches that this guy, Paul, was a, quote, coach killer, close quote. Bye-bye Notre Dame. Bye-bye UCLA. Bye-bye USC. He ends up going to an undescript, a nondescript college that is not known for basketball, but they do have a basketball team. Now, I'd like to tell you that my friend doubled down, got serious, so he then transferred to the kind of college he should have gone to, went on to the NBA. Instead, he got angry, started smoking dope, and has this whole theory about how the man held him back.

Now, I'm coming back from college. I went over to see him, and he told me all this crap. I said, Paul, you and I live six blocks from each other. Same school, same teachers, same classes. How come the white man didn't hold me back, but he's holding you back? This is BS. You look in the mirror, you take responsibility. We are no longer friends, Megan. Wow. Personal responsibility is another buzzword, right? You're not supposed to say that. That comes from a place of privilege. And I don't know how they dismiss Black people who make these points, Larry, other than these nasty terms.

Megan, I have a question for you as a white person. OK, black poverty is because of systemic racism, structural racism, yada, blah, et cetera. Explain white poverty. There are more poor white people in this country than there are poor black people. If black poverty is because of systemic racism, what is white poverty? It's a good point because you think about the people living in Appalachia and you're going to tell those people who've had no advantages in life, nobody in their entire family history ever to go to college. They too have been living on government help for far too long and drinking Pepsi out of their baby bottles for their kids. And you're going to tell them that they're going to have to pay reparations? Good luck. That's going to go over well, right? Right. And Appalachia is also a demonstration to me of what happens when you have the welfare

state. A lot of people there are dependent upon the welfare, have completely turned their cultural drive around. Look at Indian reservations, Native American reservations, 85% poverty rate, something like that, high alcoholism, high divorce. And this is a community that is 100% dependent upon federal government. When the government comes in and gives you a certain level of comfort, a lot of people use that as an out and don't persevere. So if there is any example of what the welfare state does, to me, the example is our Native American reservations. They're abysmal. Speaking about like white people in Appalachia and elsewhere, what I'll hear from the other

side is they still have white privilege. They have it. And what it is is that when they go and walk around the target, they don't get followed just because of the color of their skin. Or we'll talk, we'll hear about, you know, quote, the talk that that black parents have to have with their black kids, in particular, their black sons, about what you do when a police officer pulls them over because they're, they're scared. The parents are scared that the cops are going to do something to their kid, like pulling it over under a light, you know, make sure somebody's there and get somebody on the phone to listen to the whole thing. Do it. You know, they sort of say white people don't generally have to go through that. And that so even those folks have this white privilege, whether they feel it or not. All I know is this. If the route to escaping poverty is an education, it is easier for a black student with a given SAT score versus a white student with a given SAT score to get into the college of his or her choice because of this desire for diversity. So if anything, one can make an argument that a white person, a black person has a somewhat easier path in terms of getting into a college or university than a white person. I was in college in the 70s, as I mentioned. I had a roommate who was an engineering student. He was Black. And this is computer engineering when very few people were majoring

in this. And he was recruited like he was a college football player coming out of school for the NBA. He got phone calls. He got letters. He ended up working at TRW, his study mate, also black, ended up working at Procter & Gamble. And the Procter & Gamble guy has such a successful career, he ended up donating money to University of Michigan, and they have some sort of building named after this guy. They were recruited like high school prep stars coming out of school. So if anything, a qualified Black person versus a qualified white person coming out of school probably has an easier time getting a job than the white person. Well, what do you think, though, about the fact that now they're getting

rid of, well, they're talking about like here at Dalton in New York City, they were talking, one of the demands made by the 120 or 150 faculty members that signed this now infamous letter with crazy-ass demands on the school. This is already a far-left school. But one of the demands was, unless you can get parity between the scores on, you know, the AP classes, the advanced classes, unless you can get parity between the black and the white students, those need to go away. There can be no advanced classes for anybody at this school. Meanwhile, everybody going to Dalton, I mean, for the most part has, has been given one of the greatest academic privileges one can get, right? Not everybody

is there paying full price. Not everybody's from a privileged family, but everybody there is getting one of the most privileged educations in, in the country. Um, so now they're getting rid of AP classes or want to, in some places they're getting rid of, they're talking about getting rid of AP classes or want to in some places. They're talking about getting rid of the SAT because it's racist or the ACT racist. I don't know. I haven't taken a close look to see if those exams, I'm not sure I'd even know whether they're racist, but what do you think of that? I think getting rid of the standards is a recipe for disaster. When I get on an airplane and I see a female captain or a black

captain, I don't want to know about diversity. I want to make sure that he or she has aced the flight exam. There are real consequences to this. When your loved one is being wheeled into an OR and you see a minority doctor, do you want to know at the back of your head, did this guy escape through medical school because he was black? This is the damage we're doing to our to our society by all of this nonsense What about standards, you know JFK in 1962 was asked about affirmative action Although that was not the term that was used and he says no we can't do that. Our society is way too diverse We can't do anything about the past. All we can do now is try to do the right thing going forward, but we can't undo what happened in the past.

That's what he said. And you can't undo what happened in the past. And it really annoys me when I look at this reparation debate, because it essentially is this. It is the extraction of money from people who were never slave owners to be given to people who were never slaves. What are we doing here? And when does this end? Slavery has been unfortunately part of human history from the very beginning. Blacks enslaved blacks, Asians enslaved Asians, Caucasians enslaved Caucasians, Native Americans enslaved Native Americans. And one of the things I told my friend Paul when he changed his name to a Muslim name because he wanted to renounce the slavery religion of Christianity. I told him that the Muslim slave trade began centuries before the European slave trade and continued well after it. He told me that I was a liar and that I was

reading white historians. I said, Henry Louis Cates of Harvard is white? Right. Oh, Paul. Well, I mean, we haven't even gotten into the racial resentment all of this is stoking. I mean, that's one of the things that I'm really worried about. Like that's, as killer cop, that we need studies on what's wrong with white kids, studies on white mothers who indoctrinate their children in black death, who raise depraved children, who think they can kill black people with impunity. I mean, this is like, again, at one of the most privileged, greatest schools in America. This is the messaging to the children. And it's stoking racial resentment. And I worry that what we're going to wind up with, let's say in five years, is more segregation, not less, less unity, not more. And I don't want to say full on race wars, but I don't think this is going to have the desired

effect on the white people or the black people that whoever these wokesters are pushing this nonsense wanted to. This is not going to end well. You're absolutely right. A lot of white people are being taught to feel guilty about being white. A lot of black people are being taught that we have a right to push around, be mean to white people because after all, they deserve it. And in my opinion, I'm amazed a lot of white people are putting up with this. You look at homicides, black-white homicides. Most homicides are same-race homicides, so it's rare for there to be a black-white or white-black homicide. But every year, there are about 750 such homicides. 500 white people are killed by blacks.

250 black people are killed by whites, even though whites are a much larger population. When it comes to interracial crimes, non-homicide, violent felonies, by that I mean attempted homicide, manslaughter, rape, assault, aggravated assault, assault with a weapon, between blacks and whites every year, there are roughly 600,000 such crimes. 85% of them involve a black perp and a white victim, only 15% the other way around. Now, if I'm white and I'm told that I'm responsible for everything, responsible for all the bad things that happen to Black people, and I don't feel that way, and I'm taught I should feel guilty, and I look at these stats and how Black people are always calling me racist when I'm not, at some point, that might very well piss me off to the point where I change my attitude about Black people and change my attitude about whether or not I want to be racist. This is what's going on here. When you falsely accuse somebody of being racist, maybe, just maybe,

they're going to become racist. That's scary. I mean, that's what's scary to me. There was a story here in New York. It was either last year or the year before one of these private schools, which I'll do, I'll do them the courtesy of letting them stay nameless for this discussion. There was a girl, 15 years old, who with two of her friends was discussing what they were going to be for Halloween. And this 15 year old girl, you know, in an attempt to be funny, I guess said something like, well, I can tell you what we're not going to be. We're not going to be a slave owner and slaves. We're not going to be this. We're not going to be that. She was white. One of the friends was black. And I think the other friend was white. And the girls took her. She had sent them on like a private message. They they came to her and said,

we're offended. It was racist. The girl said, oh, my God, I'm so mortified. I didn't mean to be. I apologize. I'll delete it. They took it public and made a public complaint about her in the school. The school gets involved. The school makes the girl publicly apologize to everyone at like an assembly, the entire school. She's got to own her racism, which she does. Then they tell her she's got to do it again. Her first apology wasn't good enough. She has to racialize her apology. She has to say, I, as a white girl could never understand what it was like for, you know, one of these girls who was black and the rest of the black community to have heard these kinds of words from me. And therefore I deeply apologize again. Right. And there may have been a third attempted round too, all without her parents understanding what

was going on or being involved. Finally, the parents get wind of this. They're like, what the hell are you doing? She's 15. This is not a mature individual. She's a kid. Like, stop. She committed a sin. She tried to fix it. She owned it. Let's move on. And they wound up hiring an investigator to take a look at the situation because they thought something was up. Turns out the girls who were going after her, Larry, were bullies themselves and had the most racist stuff posted on their Facebooks and their Instagrams. I mean, like objectively racist stuff. And they were part of this group that targeted certain girls. And she was their bully victim. The whole thing was an attempt to bully her. And the school hadn't looked into any of that before they ruined this girl's life. And all I could think, and she wound

up leaving the school, filing a lawsuit. And all I could think was, in what world did the school think any of that was going to help Black-white relations? Unfortunately, Megan, we've seen this happen over and over again. It just happened at Smith College, where that student who was in the wrong place was accused of a staffer who asked her to leave of racism. They did a whole apology to the Black student. The president of the university apologized. And then they look into the facts. Turned out the whole thing was bogus. The Black student flat out lied. We've seen it with Jossie

Smollett. We've seen it. There's a book written by a guy named Riley. He works at a historically Black college in Kentucky. He's documented over 400 fake hate crimes in the last several years, not just Jussie Smollett, but many, many others. But how are we supposed to wrestle with that? Because we know there is racism in the country and there are actual racist incidents. And like, that's why the Jussie Smollett thing was so incredibly damaging, right? Because it's like he did so much damage to actual victims of racism, and yet was given a total pass, right? Given a total pass by most on the left. And these things should be investigated on a case-by-case basis.

Obviously, there's racism in America. I mean, hell, 2002, there was a Fox opinion poll. Get this, Megan. 8% of Americans believe Elvis is still alive or that there is a strong possibility that he is. 8%. So you you got to write off 8% of Americans right off the top. What are you saying? How do you know? It could be. You never know. He could be doing road construction in Kalamazoo for all we know.

But the point is, nirvana is not an option. Are you going to pick up the newspaper and read about something that happened to a Black person or to a Hispanic or to a whatever that's racist? Of course. But day to day, 1997, Time Magazine and CNN did this massive survey of Black and white high school students. Is racism a major problem in America? Both of them said yes. But then the Black students were asked the following questions. Again, 1997, 23 years ago, 24 years ago. Do you believe racism is a major problem, a minor problem, or no problem in your own daily life? 89% of these high school black kids said racism was a small problem or no problem in my own daily life. In fact, twice as many Black students said failure to take advantage of available opportunities is a bigger problem

than racism. Twice as many Black students said yes to that proposition than white students. Again, this is 1997, almost what, 20, 23, 21, 24 years ago. You know, this is like, this is one of the things Coleman Hughes has been pointing out, which is look at the studies when you ask black communities how they feel about defunding the police and decreasing the police in their neighborhood. They're not for it. The overwhelming majority either want more police or they want the police presence to stay the same. And yet you've got these white liberals marching with the banner BLM saying defund the police, right?

And that, just to be clear, BLM, the organization, does, they do favor defunding the police. They want to open up the jails. They want to defund the justice system. I mean, the agenda is truly radical. But it's not, if you look at the actual surveys

where people go to actual black people and not just people wearing a BLM t-shirt, they're not in favor of this stuff. No, they're not. And those polls have been pretty consistent over the years because guess what? Black people living in the inner city are disproportionately hurt by crime. Tupac Shakur said that. He said, we need the police more than anybody else. What makes you think we want to live with drug dealers and rapists? We don't. There's a, you know, sort of a risk in talking about BLM. I mean, I've gotten to the

point now where, because I'm just sort of unleashed and I don't have to worry about getting canceled, where I will say my honest opinion, which I think it's a force for evil. I'm in favor of Black lives. Yes, I believe they matter, but not that organization. I think it's very damaging and I Simpson was allegedly framed by the racist LAPD, guess what? The LAPD chief was Black. His name was Willie Williams, the first Black police chief we had. He did an extensive survey, study, investigation during the trial to find out whether any cop did anything wrong in the case. And he found out nobody did anything wrong. Report came out, it didn't matter. The people protesting that OJ Simpson was an innocent man framed by the racist LAPD didn't care that this black police chief

just issued a report saying it wasn't true. LA had back-to-back black police chiefs. After him, another black police chief came. LA now mirrors the demographics of the city. The department does. The city is about 40% Hispanic, as is the department, 30% white, around 10% black, around 9% Asian. It mirrors the LAPD exactly. who has come out yelling and screaming. We have a DA who has loosened all sorts of criminal justice laws, allowed people, in my opinion, to come on the streets who shouldn't come on. This guy defeated a Black female DEA, the first Black female DEA we ever had. And still people are in the streets talking about how racist the criminal justice system is. It just drives you nuts. I mean, do you, what do you think, is that organization a force for good? You're talking about Black Lives Matter? Hell no, it's not. It's a force for bad. It lies about the police. It lies about the stats. I've told you, if anything, the police are more hesitant,

more reluctant to pull the trigger on a Black suspect than on a white suspect. Even Mark Lamont Hill, the left-wing professor from Temple, has conceded in an interview with Candace Owens, who went over the same data I just went over, even he conceded that the evidence does not show the police are killing blacks just because they're black. So he fell back with the position they're using more force against black people than against white people. Well, the reason they're doing that probably is because they don't want to get to the point where they have to use deadly force. And the study I mentioned about the black Harvard economist who found the police were more hesitant, more reluctant

to pull the trigger, he did find the police were more likely to use less than deadly force on a black suspect. He said 10 to 18% more. That is not a whole lot more. And if the reason they're using the force is to not get to DEFCON 1, then that explains it. Didn't they, just to push back on that though, Larry, didn't they find, wasn't that based on a study that was then retracted? It was later retracted by a guy at the University of Maryland saying, it's not necessarily the case that white people are more likely to get killed by a cop than a black person is. You will be entertained by Heather McDonald's take on his retraction of his study. He didn't retract any of his findings. He did not like the way people like Heather McDonald and Larry Elder were using the findings to advance a position that he does not support, which is that racism

is not a major problem in society. But he didn't take back any of his findings. By the way, that was just one study. The Harvard economist has not taken back his study. And there have been many studies. That's why I mentioned the April 27, 2016 article in the Washington Post that looked at decades of research showing cops more hesitant to pull the trigger on a black suspect than a white suspect. So it's not just one study, everybody's hanging his or her hat on. It's many studies. But what about short of killings? That's where I read a report in the Washington Post. It was back over the summer. That was pretty persuasive. And even Coleman, who I trust on these issues, because he'll be pretty brutally honest on the data and so on. He has said, roughing up black suspects,

that's, that's a bigger problem. Now, now we should talk, right? Like, are the cops more likely to rough up black, black subjects more likely to pull over black subjects. There was that one study showing, um, black subjects were more likely to get pulled over in their car, but, but it evened out at night when the cops couldn't see skin color. Like these are the anecdotal and anecdotally you will hear from especially black men that they get pulled over all the time. And I'll tell you just, just this is anecdotal again.

And I know it's tough to argue with anecdotal, but we have a very good friend who is black and very successful. And he's gotten pulled over more times than I can count here in New York City. Me, not once Doug, not once we took him out. We have a boat. Doug drove the boat the entire way from New Jersey back to New

York City. He let our friend who is black take over the wheel for, I'm telling you, it was like 10 minutes. They got pulled over on the water. So this is what people are referring to when they say like, you can give me all the data you want. I know what I know about the cops and how I've lived. Well, I can give you data. I can give you anecdotal stories. Let me do the data first. Obama, 2013, his National Institutes of Justice, which is the research arm of the DOJ, did a study on race and traffic stops. And it turns out it is true that black motorists were more likely to be pulled over than the white motorists. It's also true that a black motorist was more likely to violate the law than a white motorist. Black motorists are more likely to speed, more

likely to drive with an expired tag, less likely to have a seatbelt on, less likely to have the car seat in the back. You name the offense, a black motorist more likely to commit it. And the study concluded that the reason blacks were pulled over was because of legitimate factors, end of quote. Also, there was a study on the New Jersey turnpike. Years ago, a lot of black motorists were pulled over and they were complaining that they were pulled over because they were black. Christy Todd Whitman ordered a study. It came back that the average black driver was more likely to drive fast than the average white driver, and the faster the speed, the more likely it was to be a black driver. And at night, you couldn't even tell the race of the driver. During the daytime, because of the reflection, you couldn't even tell,

and the officers were completely exonerated. Christy Todd Whitman did not like the study. She complained about the methodology. She ordered another study, different methodology, same result. It's just not true. Now those are the facts. Anecdotally, let me tell you my story. I'm six foot tall now,

but when I first started driving, I was much, much shorter. I had a growth spurt, thank God. And when I drove, you could barely see my eyebrows. So I got pulled over when I was 16. 16 was the first time I could drive. My learner's permit, I could drive without having somebody in the car with me. I must have been pulled over from the time I was 16 to maybe I was 17 and a half, maybe 18. I would say 150 times. And every single time the cop told me I looked too young. The first time I got pulled over, there were red lights behind me. I knew I hadn't done anything wrong. So I kept driving.

I went through two lights, car pulls over, pull over. So I pulled over. The cop said, why didn't you pull over? And I said, well, I didn't realize it was for me. He said, take your head out of your ass. Next time you see some light, you pull over. And I said, well, I didn't realize it was for me. He said, take your head out of your ass. Next time you see some light, you pull over. That was the roughest that I was talked to by the 150 cops who pulled me over. So that's my story. You know, it's funny. I have a friend where we go in New Jersey and he was telling me, he's black and he's a young guy. I think he's only like young twenties now. And he was talking about guy he's i think he's only like young 20s now and um he was talking about how he got pulled over it was total bullshit he didn't he hadn't done anything

wrong it was like you're they accused him of going too slow right in the in the one of the lanes which is pretextual it seems for something uh but one never knows maybe there maybe there's a raise and um the number of uh drunk drivers that You never know. So he gets pulled over and he was saying how he could have chosen to sort of get belligerent and be pissed off and sort of make assumptions. And instead he killed him with kindness. You know, he was super nice to the cops. They immediately like, forgive the term,

became disarmed, right? Not literally, but you know, emotionally. And they let him go with it with just like a warning, like watch your speed, you know, going slowly is dangerous too, whatever it was. And he, it turned into like a very positive experience for him, but it does, the point it gets to is, and this isn't, this can't always control it, but, but an attitude can be really important, white or black, white or black. And that's one of the reasons why the media is so dangerous right now. Well, of course, the attitude is important.

Cops are human beings. I went on a ride along with a buddy of mine named Derek. Derek is white. And we went on a ride along Santa Monica Police Department. And he pulls over a car that drives through a red light. The car ends up going to a gas station. We follow the car. It's night. We get out. I get out. I'm told to stand over here. And by the way, the two people in the car got out, and they saw me. And when Derek approached them, you know what

they said? You pull me over because I'm black. Now, I'm standing right there. They saw me and they still said it. And this is at night. We couldn't even tell their race until we pulled them over. And this is the kind of nonsense that a lot of black motorists say. If you're polite with people, my father always told me, whenever you're stopped by a cop, say yes, sir. Say no, sir. If you're driving, make sure your left hand is at 10 o'clock. Make sure your right hand is at two o'clock. Make sure your paperwork is in order. And if you feel you've been mistreated, you get a badge number and deal with it while you're still alive.

That's the thing is it's like what we need to focus in, like what one of the things that would be very helpful, I think, in dealing with this whole police situation is number one, training cops and de-escalation and number two, training, reiterating to all all people, white, black, old, young compliance just in the moment compliance, given what cops do for a living and the number of times about a cop after the fact and take it up with his superiors. And certainly in this age of body cameras, if you really have something, they'll get it. Certainly this day and age, they will. But like resistance is futile and not just futile, really potentially dangerous. After the OJ Simpson case, Chris Darden, who was the prosecutor, in my opinion, he did this in order to curry favor with the community. He joined with the ACLU to demand that whenever the LAPD pulls somebody over, they have to write down the race of the person they pull over. They had never done that before. Cops resisted. And I said on the air, okay, after this happens, you're going to have all

this data, and it's not going to tell you anything because it does not tell you why the cop pulled the person over and whether or not there was a legitimate reason to have done so. All it does is tell you that X number of Black people were pulled over. And I said, when the data is gathered and you guys try and make some case out of it, you're not going to be able to do it because once you interview the cop and he gives you the reason why he pulled the suspect over, it'll be perfectly fine. That's exactly what happened. We now have almost 20 years of data of cops being pulled over and the race of the driver written down. Where are the class action lawsuits alleging disproportionate, unfair, illegal stops? Where is it? We got all these civil rights lawyers running around. Where are the class action lawsuits now that you have all

this data? And the answer is the data do not tell you that the police are engaging in discrimination because just pulling over a certain number of Black people doesn't tell you anything unless you know why they were pulled over and what they were doing to cause them to be pulled over in the first place. Larry, who are your mentors? You know, we started off by me mentioning Candace Owens says you're her mentor. Like when you ask her, who changed your thinking? She talks about your, it's so amazing, your exchange with Dave Rubin. And I love Dave. And he loves this exchange too, even though he got embarrassed in

it. But she'll talk about how she saw you eviscerate poor Dave when it comes to systemic racism, and then started thinking differently and that you've become a real mentor to her. But so who would you say are your big thinkers in your life that you've learned from? My mother, my father, clearly. Tom Soule became a good friend. Walter Williams became a good friend. A man you don't know, his name is Alan Schoenberg. He was the founder of something called Management Recruiters. That's the largest executive search firm in the world. I had one little executive search firm that I ran after I stopped practicing law. And he had 700, multi, multi-millionaire.

And he would have lunch with me whenever I wanted to. And he would talk to me about life and about working hard and about staying focused. And he clearly was a major mentor. Can I do a little bragging for a second though? Yeah. You know, coaches talk about having a coaching tree that an assistant coach will get this job over here. The coach of the New England Patriots has a coaching tree, Bill Belichick, about all these people that he's mentored. Sheskey at Duke. Right. I've been in this business now 30 some odd years. And I have a commentary tree, if you will. Stephen Miller, one of Donald Trump's top alowe, I gave him his first job as an intern for me

He helped me write my second book Michelle Malkin was a reporter with the LA Daily News Out here in the Valley And I was the first one to put her on radio Ben Shapiro has publicly credited me with getting him into this business Andrew Breitbart credited me publicly with getting him into this business Cand Andrew Breitbart credited me publicly with getting him into this business. Candace Owens, you know. And I'm going to take some credit for Leo Terrell. I've been beating on his brain for almost 20 years. Now he's come around. He won't give me

credit, but I'm taking credit for it anyway. So I have a commentary tree like coaches have a coaching tree. I like that. You know what? That's your legacy. And we need more and more and more because otherwise, you know, especially given the din that we're in the midst of right now, that message is going to get drowned out. There was a line in your movie with somebody saying, as they sort of discovered people like you, like Candace and others, and listened to your stories about Black history in America, the quote was, it's like having a very successful family that you never knew you had. Right. That was a great line. And that's important. I first saw Thomas Sowell when I was like 13, 14 years old. He was on Firing Line, that show that William F. Buckley hosted for 35 years. And I didn't agree with them because at the time,

just like you, I supported affirmative action. He came out and trashed it, talked about what was wrong with it. And it started me thinking, well, fast forward. I was asked by C-SPAN. They wanted to carry my show live. At the time, I had a four hour radio show. After this four hour show, two days later, I get a letter. My wife and I watched your entire four hour show. You were amazing. You had facts. You did them with humor and you did them with grace and style. I am a fan. Signed, Thomas Sowell. Are you kidding me? Are you kidding me? I would back. We became friends. And from that point on, we have interacted. And I went to his 80th birthday party up in the Bay Area. He's an amazing man and a mentor. And one time he told me if he could do it all over again, he would have been a photographer. He is a marvelous photographer. He's got a website full of his pictures. And I said, Thomas, I love photography. You are a great photographer. But honestly, we have lots of good photographers. There's only one Thomas Sowell. I'm happy you made the choices you made. That's right. And you know, it's the fact that not every child in America knows his name is a travesty and a testament to the problems in American education that we've been discussing. It is disgusting. It's up to us as parents to find those teachers and make sure our children read them. I want my

kids to watch Uncle Tom. I want my children to watch that and to have some framework other than the one being shoved on them. Let me just ask you, so I don't know anything about you personally. I mean, I've had you on my show for years. I've seen you on TV for years, but can you just tell, what is your life like? You live in LA. Are you married? Do you have kids? Like, what do you do for fun? I live in LA. My girlfriend is to the left of me. We've been together for about 15 years. She's enjoying the interview. I was married a long time ago, briefly. And my wife and I got divorced because I didn't want to have kids at the time. And she did. And I never did want to have kids. And she did. We agreed that she would not have kids. My mom said, Larry, after you're married and assuming it goes well, she's going to want to have kids. I said, no, no, she's not.

We talked about it. So two years into the marriage, everything is going well. We're having dinner. And she says, I want to talk to you. And I said, sure. And she said, no, I really want to talk to you. I said, sure. She had an expression I'd never seen before. I laid down the knife and fork. I thought she was going to say, I have cancer. My dad died, something. She says, I want to have kids. I said, Cindy, talk about this. She said, I know, but you love me. I love you. Everything is going well. So I'm sure you want me to be a mom. And I said, Cindy, I don't. And we ended up getting divorced. Now, I would make a different call now. But back then, that's I don't. And we ended up getting divorced. Now, I would make a different call now. But back then, that's how I felt. So she ended up divorcing me. She remarried,

has two kids. She's divorced again. And we're still in touch. But I would have made a different call. But no, I'm single. I have two brothers, both of whom are dead. My older brother died September 13, 2019, two weeks before his 70th birthday. He had a heart attack sitting at his computer. My little brother died about 30 years ago. He was diabetic. My mom and my dad died several years ago. So now I am an orphan. And it really feels bizarre. Christmas, last Christmas, the first Christmas, I had no close relatives because as I mentioned, my brother had died. And I've got to tell you, it just really feels, it's hard to describe. It's just a strange, odd, bizarre feeling to be an orphan, even at my age.

And I'm 68 years old. I'll be 69 in April. Wow. But you must have a life rich with friends. You're such a good talker. You've got the Herman Cain thing, too, of like a brightness to you. You do. You must have a life rich with friends. You're such a good talker. You've got the Herman Cain thing too, of like a brightness to you. You do. You must have a life rich with friends. I have a handful of friends, at least two very close ones, Megan, and I'm sure you can relate to this. I've lost because of Donald Trump. I have a friend I've known since 1977. My brother and I,

the one who died, he and I were very close, but my friend will my white friend I chose him to be best man in my wedding. That's how close we were we cannot talk now because of obama He's convinced he has a son with special needs. He's convinced that uh that I said obama. I meant trump He's convinced that trump mocked a handicapped reporter And I sent him a long letter And I sent him a link to a website called Catholics for the number four Trump that shows the gesture that Trump uses was not designed to mock that reporter. It's a gesture that Trump used to mock the reporters in Trump's opinion, cowardice for backing away from a story that Trump had pointed to. Recall that Trump, when he first became

president, said that there were Muslims that were cheering the fall of the Twin Towers. And reporters said, where? There's no evidence, no evidence. So the White House scrambled around and found this article that this reporter had written where he described Muslims celebrating the fall of the walls. So Trump points to that article. People asked the reporter. The reporter then goes, well, I'm not sure there was that many. I'm not sure I saw them. And then that's when Donald Trump did that gesture. So I wrote my friend and I said, Donald Trump was not mocking the reporter's disability. And by the way, the reporter does not shake like that. He has an after feed arm, but he doesn't shake like that. And Donald Trump has used that same mocking gesture to mock himself, to mock able bodied people, to mock an able bodied general.

So I sent my friend a long letter and this website and it didn't matter. And what I found out, Megan, is that my friend did not want to unhate Trump. He hated him. He was comfortable in that space and did not want to get out of it. And that's where a lot of people are in this country. They don't want to hear anything any different. They think Donald Trump is a fascist and a racist, and they don't want to hear anything. 83% of Democrats, according to a respected poll, believe that Donald Trump is a racist. By the way, 61% of Democrats believe all Republicans are racist slash sexist slash bigoted. 61%. Right.

I mean, honestly, you think half of the country, you think half, 61% of your fellow Americans are racist and would vote for somebody who's racist? That's what you think? Wow. It must be hard to leave the House. You know, I've experienced it in a similar but slightly different way in that people on the left will, maybe they'll start off assuming that I hate Trump because he came after me, you know, after that debate question for quite some time. And then they felt betrayed when they saw me sort of get back on the reporting horse after I might year and a half off after NBC and heard somebody who, who didn't hate Trump. They're like, I don't understand. How could you not hate him? He attacked you all these times. Like this

is such bullshit. Why don't you hate him? I don't, you know, if he does something controversial, I'll report it. If he doesn't, if he does something that's made up controversial, I'll report your falseness too. Right. That's sort of where I am. And so, you know how the left is like, they don't care. They want you to hate Trump. But if you don't hate Trump, you're against them. You're on the other team. But then some of his core supporters still can't forgive me for asking that debate question. They think I'm a Trump hater. It's like, I'm not a Trump hater. I never was a Trump hater. I didn't enjoy it when he was coming after me. Personally, I didn't like that, but I always reported fairly on him. So it's like people

that they just want to see themselves reflected in you. I don't understand getting angry when somebody doesn't have exactly the same worldview or opinions about somebody. But he he is like, I don't know, people have such strong opinions from him on the left and the right. People have lost their minds. And it's like they define your whole character by whether you're for or against. Right. A lot of people just want their worldview corroborated. And people on the left and on the right are guilty of this. I think that Fox was treated unfairly when Fox called Arizona before other people did. Isn't that what you're supposed to do? You're supposed to call something when you think you've called it. And now everybody sits off at Fox because they feel that

somehow was anti-Trump. I don't understand that. I really don't. I think Chris Wallace got hammered unfairly too when he gave an interview. You know, your job sometimes is going to take some people off. And the viewer should be responsible enough and adult enough to accept that. I know. Right. And I get it. If you've, if you have a history of, you know, being biased against one side and you know, you've shown your, your colors, but you know, that's certainly not the case with me. And, but we've just gotten so tribal and so polarized. That's the way we are. So now wait, what is your girlfriend's name? What's her first name? Her name is Nina. N I N A. Nina Perry. So what do you guys like, what do you do for fun? Are you going to go for like a bike ride after

this? What are you going to do in sunny California? We know you're not going to go inside French laundry. We're not like that. We're very boring. We like to eat and we like, we like movies. Uh, we like plays, we like music, uh, and we like kidding each other. She hates spiders. I've got spiders all over my house. And Megan, there better not be a spider near me and near Nina because I'm picking it up and I'm chasing her. And she will literally run away like a little girl. I love it. Wait a minute. You are the Larry Elder. You've had like all these successful shows and books. How is it you have spiders all over your apartment?

You've got to get a better mate. Well, it's a house, thankfully, but I live up in the hills and there's a lot of bugs around here. But Nina is not afraid of lizards. Lizards freak me out. She's not afraid of lizards. She's not afraid of anything other than spiders. I don't understand that,

but it works out for me because I'm not afraid of spiders. So I pick them up and I chase her with them. Well, maybe in the future, you'll have a stint in New York City where I would say in these high rise apartment buildings, spiders are not the problem. Now, she might she might see a small, you know, depends on, you know, like we'll just call it a small bunny rabbit. Others might call it a rat. Oh, she's completely, of course, changed my wardrobe. We first going out, we're driving, she looks at me, she goes, you're wearing that? And I said, why don't you tell me that before I leave the house? That way, now I just go, what am I wearing today? I cut out the middleman.

Exactly right. I feel like all women do this to men. I cut out the middleman. Exactly right. I feel like all women do this to men. I did this to Doug too. And when I met Doug, he was wearing high-waisted khaki pants and a yellow golf shirt. Now I ask you, Larry. What's wrong with that? Put me on the phone.

You run that by Nina. No, Nina's going to understand my pain. I was like, okay, all I can think is that the prior girlfriend put him in this condition. So he was less marketable and he got used to it because this is not, not okay. That Christmas, I got him the nicest clothes and I didn't have a lot of money back then. It was my first year of Fox. I got him the nicest because he was like, you are the most generous person. I'm like, well, you know me.

So what's next for you? You're doing your show. I see you on Fox a lot. You're writing your books. What's the goal at this point for you? And I'm doing a lot of videos. I do three of them a week for Epic Times on YouTube. They're doing extremely well.

They're awesome. Thank you. Uncle Tom 2 is coming out. We should be finishing that in the next few months. And my first, the book about my father is called Dear Father, Dear Son, Two Lives, Eight Hours, about the eight-hour conversation he and I had. I thought of my dad as an SOB growing up. He was always yelling at us and spanking us with the belt.

And when I was 15 years old, we got into a fight fight and I did not speak to him for almost 10 years. Now, the guy living in the house, it's not like he and my mom were divorced or anything. I just did not speak to the SOB. I graduated from high school. I go to college on the East Coast, law school in the Midwest. I ended up working in Ohio. So I would come back and visit my parents, but I would always avoid my father for 10 years. Now I'm 25 years old. I just passed the bar, California bar, Ohio bar. I'm working at Squire Sanders, you know the firm. I'm making the equivalent. What are the kids making today now? 150K coming out of school? Yep. So that's me. And I can't sleep. I should be living large. I can't sleep.

I know it has something to do with my father. So I called my secretary, and I said, cancel all my appointments. I'm flying to LA. And I didn't tell my parents I was coming because I didn't want my dad to prepare for this confrontation. So I go to the restaurant where my dad was working, the little restaurant that we owned. I said, I want to talk to you. He was shocked to see me. He said, okay, wait till we close. So I had to wait for an hour. And I sat there at the little diner, and I said, I want to talk to you. He was shocked to see me. He said, OK, wait till we close. So I had to wait for an hour. And I sat there at the little diner and I said to myself, now, Larry, don't tee off on his ass. Just tell him a few things that bother you. He's probably going to call you an ungrateful son. You'll call him an SOB. Then maybe you'll be able to sleep.

So my father sat down and Megan, you know how I can go. I teed off on the SOB for 25 minutes, nonstop. I told him every whipping, every spanking, everything he ever said to me that pissed me off. And when I was done, I was out of ammo. My dad looked at me and he said, is that it? You didn't speak to me for 10 years because of that? And I said, yeah. And for the first time I saw my father cry. And he said, let me tell you about my father, referring to the man named Elder. And he talked about how he was beaten and how he was treated and how he left home when he was 13. The story I told you, I didn't know any of that because I didn't give a damn. I didn't like him. He told me about his life. It took eight hours. And during the eight hour period of time, the man got bigger and bigger and bigger. And Larry got smaller and smaller and smaller. And after eight hours, I'm crying. And I said, dad, please forgive me for judging you so harshly and unfairly. My father said,

don't worry about it. You didn't know you were just a kid. But follow the advice I've always given you and your brothers. And he reiterated that mantra I told you about hard work winning and all that. And I wrote a book about it called Dear Father, Dear Son, Two Lives, Eight Hours. Dear Father, Dear Son, because when I went back to Cleveland after this eight-hour conversation, my dad wrote me a letter, Megan. He had never written me a letter. And it said, Dear Son. And I wrote back to him, Megan. He had never written me a letter. And it said, dear, dear son. And I wrote back to him and I said, dear father.

And the book is a wonderful book. And you're asking me about my next project, which is why I'm giving you this long winded, long windy story. And I'm thinking about trying to do a movie of the book about the eight hour conversation that my dad and I had. If I can raise the money and get a decent screenplay, I've never written a screenplay before. I'd like to do that. It's about so much. It's yes, it's a reminder of the values he taught you hard work and so on. But it's also about the son who's been the subject of, you know, some some mistreatment by the dad,

nonetheless, finding the courage inside of him to go confront the father about the behavior, to learn some perspective on it and where it falls in the grand scheme of misdeeds in life. And conversation with somebody you in the moment loathe, somebody who you think might loathe you, but reaching across the aisle anyway and having conversation, conversation being the key to get us out of our angst, our loathing, our self-loathing, our loathing of our country, right? It's like there's a lot in there. Absolutely. Absolutely. There's a lot in there. My father was a gracious man. He was a happy man. He was beloved. During the eight hours we were sitting there, this is a little diner that my dad started in 1962. And as we were sitting there, people would come by and knock on the window. Randy, are father was never robbed, not one time.

One time, my dad and I were there. My dad is walking out with a bag full of cash. And these gangbangers are sitting on his car. My dad hands one of the gangbangers the money so my dad could open the trunk. The gangbanger gives him the money, puts the money in the trunk. They all did this to make sure nobody messed with him. And then he drove home. Oh, my God. That's fantastic. These are all Hispanic gangs in the area, in the Pico Union area, mostly now Hispanic area.

All these gangbangers, all, hey, Randy, Randy, I'll get that for you. Don't worry about it. We'll take care of you. Never robbed. Not one time. That's fantastic. That does speak very well of him. Maybe he found his kindness later in life as so many people do. You know, it's tough. I was just thinking about the hitting situation, Larry. I have to tell you because I don't hit my kids. I was hit by my mother, which she loves when I bring it up publicly. But somebody was just asking me, like, why don't, why don't

you ever hit them? Like, cause I know that especially in the South and in other parts of the country, it's, it's more normal. And I always felt like I can't teach my kids not to hit by hitting them. Right. I can't teach them good behavior by behaving badly myself. It's like the only way forward is to model it. Uh, but I don't know.

I mean, you didn't have kids, but I feel like somehow we wind up stopping these cycles of abuse. And maybe that too speaks to the country. I don't know. Like the country's going through something awful right now, but we usually get ourselves out of it. We don't usually stay in the awful place. That's one thing I do have. I have hope in like we're in this sort of crisis mode right now in the wake of George Floyd, the wake of the pandemic, which I think weakened people's spirits. And I just feel like, OK, we're getting stronger. We're getting vaccinated. People are like stopping with the fear, the constant fear.

I don't know. What are you are you hopeful right now about our country? I always tell people I'm guardedly pessimistic. I'm worried when somebody like AOC can come out of a fine university like Boston University with a degree in economics and says the stupid crap she says, the people at the tippy, tippy, tippy top, taxpayers should be paying more, when the people at the tippy, tippy, tippy top pay almost 40% of all the federal income taxes in the country. And she's got a major in economics and she wants a $15 minimum wage when the studies show overwhelmingly that these kinds of laws hurt people, including a disproportionate number of black and brown workers. It scares me

that somebody like that can come out of the university with a degree in economics. And they're minting people like that every single day. So I'm frightened by that. All right. Well, let's end it on an up note, because sometimes when I have somebody like you, I from something to nothing faster than any other civilization in human history. I love the freedom. That's what America is all about, being free to be who and what you want to be. That's what I love about this country. Why do you suppose people are craving shark-infested waters to get here? There are 7 billion people in the world, And I dare say most of them would trade places with us if they could only do so. And it's worth fighting for. We've got a country to save. Amen. What a pleasure. All right. I will let you spend more time with Nina,

but please come back. This was so fun. I will. Thank you very much for having me so long. I appreciate it. Pleasure was all mine. And don't forget everybody, Uncle Tom, go get it. Go to uncletom.com. I do believe that's where I got it the first time. It's well worth your time. All the best, Larry. All the best. Thank you. Coming up on Monday, we're going to have reaction to the Prince Harry, Meghan Markle, big interview

with Oprah on Sunday night. I got a lot of thoughts about these two. They're good gracious. Have you ever seen somebody so privileged in your life playing such the victim? My God. I mean, it's really insane. And she's, you know, oh, the palace put out that report about me bullying people just to get ahead of this interview, which may be true. But the report's not so good.

It's not so good that she was reducing people to tears, that she was hissing, allegedly, at some of her employees. What do you have to be so upset about when you're living in the castle? I mean, talk about not being able to look on the bright side. You married a prince. You're wearing, you're covered in diamonds. You got your own castle. Like, shut up. So I feel the need to have some reaction to the Oprah interview.

And we're also going to be joined by Barry Weiss again because she has formed this amazing new group. It's basically a new ACLU and it's all your favorites. And I've agreed to be on the advisory board too. But it's Glenn Lowry. It's Coleman Hughes. It's Barry White. It's Ion Hersey-ALE. I could go on, but we're getting organized, folks, and we're fighting back against this nonsense. And you're going to want to know how it can help you because there are real ways we're going to be able to help regular Americans sitting at home, having no idea how to fight these battles in their community. So anyway, tune in for that on Monday and have a great weekend. Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear. The Megyn Kelly Show is a Devil May Care media production in collaboration with Red Seat Ventures.