The Megyn Kelly Show - Latest Arrest Connected to Karmelo Anthony Case, Nowak Prosecutors Appeal Digwa’s Lenient Sentence, New Developments in Nancy Guthrie Case | Ep. 1348

Episode Date: June 26, 2026

Megyn Kelly is joined by Jason Whitlock, host of “Fearless with Jason Whitlock,” to discuss the latest arrest connected to the Karmelo Anthony case, how it's being turned into an absurd race issue, the cultural issues the case has brought to the forefront, the latest foul controversy surrounding Caitlin Clark and the WNBA, Clark’s alleged injury and time away from the court, the broader cultural conversations surrounding the league, her relationship with head coach Stephanie White, and more. Then, Megyn discusses the breaking news on the prosecutors in the Henry Nowak murder trial appealing Vickrum Digwa's lenient sentence, the police officers' poor handling of Nowak leading up to his death, the current state of law enforcement in the UK, and more. Plus, James Fitzgerald, co-host of "Cold Red Podcast,” and John Kelly, criminal profiler and psychotherapist, join to discuss new developments in the Nancy Guthrie investigation, the new CBS report on the first ransom note being addressed directly to Savannah Guthrie, questions about the note’s authenticity, what the unusual circumstances of the abduction may reveal about the kidnapper, a potential "friend" of Nancy Guthrie's abductor contacting TMZ, law enforcement's decision not to pay the ransom, whether investigators could have tracked the Bitcoin payment,  why some experts believe authorities may be closing in on the suspect, and more.  Whitlock- https://m.youtube.com/c/jasonwhitlock Fitzgerald-https://www.youtube.com/@ColdRedPodcast-tb2lb/featured Kelly- https://www.johnkellyllc.com/   Supersure Insurance: Upgrade your business insurance to a year-round SuperAgency at https://Supersure.com/Megyn Herald Group: Learn more at https://GuardYourCard.com Byrna: Go to https://Byrna.com or your local Sportsman's Warehouse today. Shopify: Launch your dream business with Shopify. Sign up for your $1/month trial at https://Shopify.com/Megyn and start selling today!     Follow The Megyn Kelly Show on all social platforms: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/MegynKelly Twitter: http://Twitter.com/MegynKellyShow Instagram: http://Instagram.com/MegynKellyShow Facebook: http://Facebook.com/MegynKellyShow Find out more information at:https://www.devilmaycaremedia.com/megynkellyshow Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Welcome to The Megan Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East. Hey, everyone on Megan Kelly. Welcome to the Megan Kelly Show and happy Friday. We made it through another week. Later in the show, we're going to have our All-Star panel to discuss the latest with this Nancy Guthrie case. Are we closer to solving this thing than we think our news with Maureen O'Connell the other day went viral? You know, she said she's 75% sure that they're closing in on Porch Man, so we'll get into it. We're also going to get in in just a minute to the controversy in the WNBA over Caitlin Clark. Jason Whitlock has got the inside scoop on this. But first, we begin today with a major update in the Carmelo Anthony case. There has now been an arrest, reportedly as many as three arrests, down in Texas.

And the feds are now reportedly stepping in, reports Fox News Digital, following a brutal assault on a Texas woman who was allegedly beaten down by a group of suspects chanting free Carmelo. Fox is reporting that in Longview, Texas, police have made this arrest in connection with this alleged random attack on a victim by this group of suspects that claim, according to Fox, that they had said, quote, they were going to target the smallest white girl they could find. And they did indeed find a white girl who appears to be severely injured. We've got pictures of her injuries, which I'm going to show you now. She is, we don't have her name. We do know that one woman has been arrested for this assault. Here is the victim whose injuries appear all over her face and head.

Her eyebrow is bloody and looks to have a deep gash on it. The top of her head appears to have a deep gash and is quite bloody. there's a picture that they've released of her high-heeled shoe, which none of us can quite figure out what we're seeing, but they appear to think it's evidence and has blood on it. We can cycle through the pictures, please. And you can see some of her injuries. She's wearing a neck brace. She's clearly been attacked. This is not, this is not neck brace that you... Okay, now we do have her name. The victim's name is Sammy Lee. This is not the kind of neck brace. You know, we had a car accident and we're looking to run up our insurance bills. You can see the blood all over this. woman's face and head and arrests are being made. The first one is of 21-year-old Sierra Ann Fuller of Longview. She is facing assault charges and was booked into jail on a $20,000 bond, according to local K-Y-T-X. And the locals are reporting at least two other arrests as well in this case. Unbelievable. So this, we don't have any idea what the race of the perpetrators is, though I'm going to assume it's not necessarily white if they were looking

to target, quote, the smallest white girl they could find. But this is in retaliation. The report is that this is in retaliation for the Carmelo Anthony conviction. This is insane. Carmelo Anthony attacked and stabbed a young man to death. He happened to be black and the decedent is white. And this wasn't a race case, despite the fact that. at Carmelo Anthony's family spokesperson tried to make it one. And now this small group of people, although it's growing, like the intellectual class, so called, is jumping on board of this. Oh, now we have a picture of the perpetrator.

Yeah, she does happen to be black. She's there with some crazy hair, blonde tips and dark roots and I guess was allegedly part of this whole thing, now being held on $20,000 bond. So they're turning this into a race crime. Like what wasn't a race crime is turning into a race crime because there's a collection of people extremely angry about the fact that justice applied to Carmelo Anthony the same as it would to any other person who stabbed another boy in the heart with no reason. Here to join us on this case and more is our friend Jason Whitlock.

He is the host of Fearless with Jason Whitlock. When you sign your insurance agency for some breaches, brokers, that is the finish line. It's a handshake. They get their commission done. Then you may not hear again from them until it's time for renewal and they need your money and commitment again. It's not exactly a great relationship. Your business, however, runs all year. And so do the gaps and so does the risk and so do events for which you need insurance. And that is why I want to tell you about super sure. If your company has more than 25 employees, whether you are the owner, the CFO, or the HR manager, it can be too complex to just buy a policy online.

fine. SuperSure is the super agency built for you, licensed in every state for your business insurance and employee benefits, with year-round support for you and your team. At supershure.com, you can access tools like fine print facts, which translates your current policy into plain English so that you see what's covered in what's not, plus a business value calculator so you can estimate what your business is actually worth and then know what really needs protecting. Go to super sure.com, Megan, one super agency, one powerful platform, all your policies in one place, so convenient, so much easier to manage. Go to supershure.com slash Megan paid for by SuperSure insurance agency LLC, which is a licensed insurance agency. This is so infuriating, Jason. The turning of the

narrative around Carmelo Anthony has been infuriating from the start, and now it's culminating in race-based attacks as, some sort of vengeance for what? The person who was hurt here was white. It was Austin Metcalf, who was the victim here. The world is upside down, Megan, and we sit here and we're baffled. Like, how did we get here? And it's been a long process, and it takes a lot to understand and what is transpiring. But, you know, I, I, what, Megan, do you remember the West Memphis three case, West Memphis, Arkansas? HBO did three documentaries.

Three white kids, teenagers, murdered three eight-year-old boys. And these were all white kids. Damien Eccles, 18, 19 years old, Jason Ball. and a Jesse Miss Kelly. They did the murders. And the prosecution argued that this was a satanic child sacrifice case. That's what they argued in court. And the jury agreed and convicted these guys that gave Damien Eccles a life sentence. HBO jumped in. And people like Johnny Depp and Eddie Vedder and other celebrities jumped in and said, no, this is. Satanic panic and this little small town in Arkansas has too many Jesus concerns. And these are just kids and misconstrued. And they didn't actually do it. And they for 18 years, the media and HBO, HBO put out three different documentaries

trying to argue that these kids were innocent. And eventually they got an Alfred plea. And they became celebrities and heroes and they got sprung from prison. They did the crime. But and the argument was like heavy metal music and reading Stephen King books had influenced these kids into this satanic ritual child sacrifice deal. And Megan, I believe that the same thing is going on with hip hop music and hip hop culture. It has the same influence over young black kids and it has overtaken black culture. And so hip hop culture believes that you touch this kid, you put your hands on me.

I have a right to kill you or assault you with a weapon of some sort. And they want the rest of American society to bow to their standards. In hip hop, any sort of disrespect can be met with violence. This is why you see so many videos of black people say, don't you put your hands on me? You put your hands on me. Don't you and see what happens if you put your hands on me. There's a mindset that has been given to black culture and black people that's incompatible with Christian American culture and Christian American standards.

And that's how so many people are running around defending Carmelo because they've been brainwashed. You put your hands on him. You pushed him. And in our culture, hip hop culture, we can be violent and kill you. And that's how they've come up with the self-defense case. And they've got idiots like Dominique Alexander that represented the family, the new Al Sharpton.

He's a convicted felon. He comes from this hip-hop prison. Yeah. Prison hip-hop culture. And he's out promoting this. And Megan, you remember when we saw the black kid out in front, the black man out in front of the courthouse dancing and jumping. and up and down in front of the white guy.

And it just looks crazy. But we're going to have to accept like, hey, there is a culture that has gone absolutely nuts and has been influenced by this prison hip hop and just, quite frankly, this African. Because a lot of this, and I'm telling you, it's hard to understand. But I just had a pastor named G. Craig Lewis on my show. And he's been talking about this for 30 years that black people, American black people, their obsession with Africa and connecting with African cultures. And from the changing their hairstyle to the changing of just their customs and wanting to bring that African culture to America. Well, we have to be honest about Africa and African culture and how violent and how tribal it is.

And so we're looking at an American culture that's being influenced by African tribalism, satanic religious cults. Hip-hop is right in line with that. If you look at the roots of hip-hop and what they brought and what they preached, it's a lot to unpack and understand, but it's very important that we understand what we're dealing with so that when we stand against it, No one can call us racist or coons or sellouts.

It's just like, hey, man, we don't want that African culture crap here in America. We don't want religions or beliefs that say, if you touch me, I can kill you. We got to reject that. And I know you've been dealing with the slings and arrows, as have I. But we have to be even more resolved and resolute. like, hey, this just can't stand. Everybody's at risk here. I don't want to live in a society where people can interpret what I say is disrespect

and then get all up in my face and try to bait me to touch them or have conflict with them and then they get to kill me and paint me as the bad guy. Right. Exactly right. And now, like, to see it morph into retaliatory. attacks, it's like, wait a minute, if we're just going purely by race here, a black person attacked and killed a white person. If there should be retaliation, it would be the other way around. How are now more black people attacking a white girl as justice for this case? And it's because

Carmelo was convicted and sentenced to prison. We're getting more details now as we speak on the other two arrested. We have their mugshots, too. It's, it appears to be a group of black women who attacked a white woman. DeJay Brown and Alana Mumfrey are the names of the other two. We're showing their pictures here. They've voluntarily surrendered now to law enforcement, according to Lederian Brown, Longview police spokesperson. Each faces a charge of assault causing bodily injury.

Both were booked into jail and released on $20,000 bonds, according to online jail records. Again, the victim is Sammy Lee, who describes herself as new to Longview, Texas, she posted on Facebook on June 21st that she was assaulted at Whiskey Jays, a bar by three, quote, random women who yelled Free Carmelo. Lee said she had not interacted with those women in any way before the assault. Let's see the, and now, as I mentioned, the Longview police are in communication with the FBI, Jason, regarding the case.

And why? Because online conversations concerning retaliation, division, and attacks are increasing. So there's a group of people, this is sort of the Jasmine Crockett street version, only actual street, not the fake street that Jasmine pretends she has in her background, who are looking to like exact revenge on random white people reportedly. I mean, they're going to have to check into this woman's story. You know, like we don't know for sure whether that's what they said and we'll see what their defenses are. But if this is true, this is deeply disturbing, this woman's injuries are no joke either.

Listen, and I'm not trying to be provocative. And look, it is what it is. Black people have been convinced that we're victims of white supremacy. We're not victims of our own choices. We don't control our destiny through the music, through our education system, through everything, the left has done, the identity, politics, and all that, you're a victim and you have a right to be violent towards the people that you believe are your oppressors. And at some point, like America did before the Civil War, during the Civil War, during Jim Crow, America had a conversation with itself, say, hey, man, white people have a racism problem that has to be addressed head on. We now need to say black people have a racism problem and they're practicing a

form of religion that is destroying them and now looking to destroy the rest of America. We have to be that direct and that honest. I get why most people are afraid. Corporate America doesn't want you to say that and it could put you out of a leadership position or get you targeted over social media, but if we don't have a real honest conversation about what's gone on with the black church and how it's lost course and has gone into racial victimhood. And again, as a Christian, any of, or those of us that just have Christian values within it, we don't believe in victimhood. America is the land of opportunity.

It's not the land of oppression. People from around the world and people of all colors aren't trying to. to get into America because it's the land of oppression. It's the land of opportunity. And there's a documented history of white Christians fighting for the freedom of black people and black Americans and giving money to Africa and all this other stuff. White people are not perfect. They're just as flawed as everybody else.

But this rap that they're like out to destroy. black people and black Americans, it's a lie. And there's all kinds of evidence that it's a lie. And white people, what they've done is said, like, help you adopt this Christian culture and we're good. We don't care what color you are. That is the true story of America. And black people seem to be saying, you know, we don't share those values. everything needs to be based on skin color.

And, you know, we're going to be tribal based on skin color while being tribal like Africans over in Africa that war and destroy black people and white people. And so we get the worst of all of it. You know, black on black crime is out of control. Now black on white crime and just the smearing of America and white people. people, it's all out of control. You know, what we're experiencing here is no different than what's going on in South Africa. White people are being targeted by black people out of racial animus and everybody has to sit

around and be quiet and pretend like it's not happening. I'm not going to pretend anymore and we can't. I mean, we're taking it all the way back to the Carmelo Anthony case. A 17-year-old boy was stabbed in the heart for pushing a kid. kid at attract me. We pushed and shoved all the time when I was a kid. That's what kids do. They don't stab each other in the heart. And a guy has stabbed and killed a 17-year-old kid. And somehow he's being turned into the victim by politicians, mainstream television, broadcasters and pundits. This is insanity. And we have to stop.

It's awful. It's awful. And it's like truly, this one's so crazy to me because it's like we've, we've almost become, I don't know, inert to cop unleashes fire on a black man and then we're going to have riots. We're going to have weeks of media coverage, putting it on a loop. It's going to be misrepresented. And there could even be retaliatory violence like we just saw. But this is, this is so bizarre. This is, in this case, a black man killed a white man, teenagers. that's what happened and then was held to account in a criminal court of law by a jury and a judge and a whole trial. How is there retaliatory violence against whites? This is just bizarre and something's definitely happening.

And I know you're speaking generally, you don't speak about all black people in this way, but there's definitely a collection that's had a very bizarre, outsized reaction to this verdict that is showing, shining a light on an underbelly that is dark and disturbing. Let me say one last thing, and I'm sorry, but hey, look, the indifference to what happened to Austin Medcaf, that's just as sinful as anything else. And so the people that aren't shouting down, the idiots. And so I don't want to paint a broad brush. And obviously, there are black people like myself.

But black culture in general has been so influenced. by the depravity of hip hop that too many black people are indifferent about what happened to Austin Medcaf. And that's just as bad as the people that are out seeking violence and harming white people because it's that indifference that's kind of a passive okay. Well, I get why you did that. I get why Carmelo did that. I get why these women went out and attacked these other white women. The indifference bothers me that everybody isn't screaming at the top of their lungs. Hey, there's a problem here.

We can't continue to bathe our kids. Megan, you've got kids. Trust me, the music that you listen to while the child is in your womb, when the child is growing up, it affects their soul and their mentality. And we're letting kids listen to this. brave music. And the point I was making about the West Memphis 3 is that, like, white people saw this with heavy metal music and called it out in real time. And they got pushed back and all that other stuff. But they're aware, like music has an influence that we don't fully understand.

And if we're going to allow all this profanity, all this sex talk, and young kids are, know all the lyrics to this, don't be surprised that when they get to be teenagers, they're participating in teen takeovers and just doing violence and rioting for no reason. Their minds have been groomed for this. You're not the only one saying that. We've had on Dr. Leonard Sachs, who is an expert in childhood psychiatry and child rearing. He's been, he's a worldwide recognized expert in children and their psychology and so on. and he has been making a similar point.

I remember him using just an easy example to remember on our show talking about how, because I said to him, Jason, I'm like, those of us who grew up in, like, the 70s and the 80s, we really had no parents. So, you know, like, why are you so worried about what's on TV and radio? Because back then, we were raised by TV and radio, you know? Like, parents didn't pay any attention to us back in those decades. And he said, it's different now because you put yourself in front of the TV or your kid in front the TV and the radio without you there now.

And they're hearing those kinds of messages that you just talked about, you know, about like killing and violence and sex and disrespect for authority figures, including your parents. And the message, like sort of the babysitter is very, very different than it was in the 70s when it was like the Brady Bunch and Little House on the Prairie. Father knows best. That was the worst you could fall into. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. He had a good point about it, you know. Yeah. The pop culture actually affirmed the values that you wanted to instill to some degree. Not all of it, but again, I grew up watching Dennis DeMinnis and Father Knows Best in the Brady bunch. My three sons. Yeah.

Yeah. Those values were like, those are good values that they're affirming in those shows. Now all of pop culture is telling you, screw your parents, screw authority. Change everything. You don't even have, just change is good. Change we can believe. All the stuff Obama basically affirmed that if you're changing something, that's a good thing. Well, hold on.

You know, what if you're Megan Kelly and you're beautiful and the change they want Megan Kelly to do is, hey, overeat and become 200 pounds? Well, that's not good change. It's, it's, it's. So all change isn't good. There's some things that were built. to America that don't need to be changed. Period. End of story. Forgive me for bringing up a tough topic, but I think it fits here, which is Uncle Jimmy was

murdered. I can't believe this. He was your co-host for years. You guys came on this show. It was during the summer because I remembered I was down at the Jersey Shore when I was talking to you both. Watch this. What made you say, you know, what would add to this? I want to bring back, Jimmy. I wanted a partnership there. Well, you have to remember Jimmy, uh, in how many years ago, three years ago, Jim was still in Kansas City, Kansas. He was, uh, this is a true story. Yeah, he was a, uh, sergeant. I worked in law enforcement for 17 years. I worked. Yeah. A sergeant in, in, in the sheriff's department and in Kansas City, Kansas. And I decided I was going to bring him on to my television show at Fox Sports

to play the role of my uncle on my talk show, speak for yourself. And people thought I was crazy. And people thought I was crazy. Yeah, people, well, you were crazy. So they were, but they thought I was crazy for wanting to do it. The guy works at a jail. He's going to crack jokes on TV now? What are you talking about? And so I had to twist on. and beg, and eventually they allowed Jimmy to come on to move out to L.A. and appear on my TV show, speak for yourself. And he was murdered recently. He was only 64? Yes.

What happened, Jason? Three teenagers, black. I think got into dispute with one of Jimmy's sons earlier in the day. And circled back and shot up Jimmy's house. And Jimmy was sitting in his driveway in his car about to run an errand and got shot in the back of the head. And yeah, it's the random violence that we talk about all the time. And the young kids out of control, unfothered. Again, it's like we want to reject the fact that, you know, if 75% of your kids are growing up in a home with no father, that's a problem that has to be addressed.

The matriarchy is not going to fix that. Fathers have to come back into the homes so that there's peace, there's an authority figure, there's someone that is a protector and a provider. you know, we want to pretend like a single mother can do what two parents can do. And it's just not true. And my parents divorced when I was four or five years old. And I was raised primarily up until my senior year of high school in the home with my mother. But my dad was always involved. And then my senior year of high school, I live with my dad.

But I'm under no illusion that, you know, things would have been better had my parents stayed together. and that that system produces better fruit than the single parent fruit. But we can't talk about it because you get called racist or a coon for talking about it. Or you hate women. You're sexist or whatever. No, man, I believe the data. I believe the Bible. But I believe the data even more that two parents do a better job than one parent.

Two parents create a better neighborhood and community than neighborhoods dominated by a single parent. It just is what it is, but they've used race to silence us away from just common sense and things that have been proven over thousands of years. We don't have to debate whether two parents are better than one. We've got thousands of years of data that says there's been no society. no great society built that wasn't built on the back of the nuclear family. And so, you know, I guess we're going to try to be the first and the early results. The primaries have been decided. It's not going well.

It's if you want to look at what single parent and the matriarchy can do, look at the American black community. Look at the SAT scores. Look at the incarceration rate. Look at the teenage pregnancy rates. Look at all of it. The results are in. It doesn't work. Well, I'm very sorry for your loss, Jason. I liked him. He was fun and I was shocked to hear that news. Yeah.

I know. I know. And you guys went way back. I know. Yeah. Okay. Now we got to get to this controversy in the WMBA with Caitlin Clark. I've been following your coverage. Jason has been analyzing these clips and what's been happening with her on the fever. Like the Zapruder films. And I am here for. for it. That's why we first booked you. I'm like, I want him to walk me through all of this. So I'm just going to lay out what my producers put together just to get the audience up and running, and then you're going to take it. It's so fascinating your take. And I told you've convinced me 100%. All right. So this all started on Wednesday. Well, it started before Wednesday,

but the latest chapter started Wednesday when the league released its 30th anniversary poster. And we're showing it on the screen right now. Caitlin Clark, the league's biggest star, she's responsible for huge ratings, sold out arenas. She's not on it. Okay, and there are recent players on it. Like, I think Angel Reese is on it. Okay, why is she on it? And Caitlin Clark is not on it.

That's a question. Some people are suggesting it's because she, it's a licensing issue that she, like, that she hasn't allowed that. But we haven't heard that from the league itself. And it does seem weird to me that the WMBA wouldn't have permission to use Caitlin Clark's image. So we don't know, all right? because it's absolutely baffling. But that wound up not even being the biggest controversy on Wednesday because in Caitlin's game that night against the Phoenix Mercury, Mercury player Alyssa Thomas lodged her fist into Caitlin's neck in a play where no foul was called during the game. We're showing a

still of it right now. I'm not a sports expert, but I mean, it does seem like a foul. Seems like a clear foul. Even I can see that. Now, the WMBA upgraded the play. play after the fact, because there was all this outrage after the game, because nothing had been called. It was like, well, how is that not a foul? So then they upgraded it, which they can do after a game is ended, not just to any foul, but to a flagrant two foul. And Thomas got suspended, but just for one game. So many critics are saying, what's that? And she got fined something like a pittance. I think it was a thousand bucks, and she makes $1.2 million a year. According to Caitlin's coach, who's going to play a pivotal role in our discussion with Jason here, that was not the only

cheap shot by the Mercury that night. You can see on your screen a Mercury player, Fowling Clark, on a three-point attempt, not giving her space to land safely, which I'm told you're supposed to do. People who have played basketball say this is exactly the type of play that can lead to a nasty ankle injury, which is why they often call it as a foul, but not in this case. And there are allegations that it's a pattern when it comes to Caitlin Clark that that the league and its Rests allow her to get beaten, I mean physically beaten, not beaten in the sports lingo, without calling the fowls because they can't stand her. Pretty much everyone hates Caitlin Clark in this league.

She maybe have a couple of friends, but everyone hates her. And, you know, there are real questions about why? Is it just normal professional jealousy? Is it a race thing? Is it a sexuality thing? Because 74% of the league, according to some reporters are, well, first, black, and then some huge portion of them are also gay. Why do they have to be gay? Why are there so many soccer players gay? And why are so many

basketball players gay with the women, I'm saying? Like, I don't get it. Like, whatever, but in any event, they hate her. Now, Caitlin, back to this game in which she got the punch to the throat, she ultimately walked out of the game. Like, before it was over, I think it was third quarter. And they said nothing like the announcers weren't talking about. It was like the biggest player in the league just walked off in the middle of the game. And then they kind of came back up and they were like, oh, it's a back injury. And Jason Whitlock says, if you believe that, you haven't been paying attention because there is a dynamic that caused Caitlin Clark to walk off of the court that day. And it had, in his opinion, nothing to do with her back. Okay, take it away, my friend.

So let me, there's a bunch of things you said. The close-out play where the woman is contesting Caitlin's shot, there was a file called on that, and Caitlin went to the line and shot three free throws. What they didn't review is whether that was a reckless close-out, which would have required it an additional free throws. But there is a file. That's why Caitlin Clark went to the free throw line and shot three free throws. As it relates to the poster, you covered that pretty well in terms of potential licensing issue.

But what is left out of that is like, hey, the WNBA is controlled by this Marxist mindset that, hey, everybody should get something. And, you know, we got to share things equitably, equally, blah, blah, blah. And so Diana Tarasi is widely considered the greatest WMBA player of all time. She's white. She's not on the poster either. And so Caitlin Clark not being on the poster, and this is celebrating 30 years of the WNBA, and there's old players on there, there's current players on there the whole nine years. The greatest player, arguably in WNBA history, also isn't on the poster.

And so there may have been a licensing issue. with Diana Tarasi or it may have just been this stupidity of hey you know let's leave Tarasi let's see Sue Byrd's not on there let's leave Caitlin all and let's showcase these other people because that's what's equitable and so that's the lunacy instead of doing what's best for business hey let's put Caitlin Clark on here she's got the biggest fan base there'll be more likely to buy the poster so those are the first two things I just wanted to add a little to as it relates to the foul on Caitlin Clark, the fist to the neck area.

You put it down in slow motion, you put a steel photo up, and it looks like the worst thing in the world. When you watch it in real time, if you play Caitlin's reaction and how quickly she got up and when she goes back down court and you look at her and look at her facial expressions and body movement, this thing's being exaggerated. And I'll make a very provocative analogy. It's being exaggerated the same way Derek Chauvin on top of George Floyd greatly exaggerated.

Derek Chauvin weighed 150 pounds. It had nothing to do with George Floyd dying. Now, Alyssa Thomas, the player that did do that, she's a bona fide thug. there's no quay, there's all kinds of video throughout her career of her being ridiculously physical with her opponents, whether black or white. She's a rugby. Yeah, she does seem like a bona fide thug. Just my own research, I didn't know nothing about the WMBA, but just my own research showed like three examples where team coaches were going jihad on her. Like what the F with this player who's actively hurting multiple women in the WMBA?

She's got a file on Angel Reese that's much worse than the Caitlin Clark file, just for clarity. But she's a rugby player. She's unskilled. Her game is bullying and intimidating everybody. And that's how she gets buckets. And that's how she's an effective player. The Phoenix Mercury, because of Alyssa Thomas, whose wife is on the Phoenix Mercury as well, named Dewana Bonner. and DeWana Bonner played briefly last year for the Indiana fever and left and quit and basically forced her way onto the Phoenix team so she could be with her wife, Alyssa Thomas.

Well, they do have a problem with the Indiana fever and they do think that intimidating Caitlin Clark trying to intimidate there's a white girl on a team named Lexie Hull. They try to intimidate her and they play physical with her. All of this is par for the course for Alyssa Thomas and DeWana Bonner and the type of thug ball that they play with everybody in the WNBA. So as it relates to, does Caitlin Clark get treated unfairly in the WNBA? Yes, she did. Her first two years, her rookie year and last year, these players had a. real problem with her and they were extra physical with her and the league addressed it this off season implementing new rules called about freedom of movement and so the rep the games are

ref completely different and the players for the most part are completely different because they got a new collective bargaining agreement that is paying them six to ten times more than they were ever making in the WNBA. And so the animus around Caitlin Clark has dissipated this season. Other than the Phoenix- So I finally realized she's getting them paid. Yes. And so other than the Phoenix Mercury, no one has really messed with Caitlin Clark that way.

Players that I saw that used to be extra aggressive with it, they're now joking with her before the game, even during the game. It's all dissipated. But most people have the old narrative from 24 and 25, and they're applying it to what they just saw here. And they're also ignoring or they're unaware because most people are passive watchers of the WNBA. They see the highlights.

They're just not informed. There's a dynamic between Caitlin Clark and her head coach, Stephanie White. They've been at each other's throats now for two years. They don't like each other. She's white too. Stephanie, just for the record, is a white woman. A white woman who, like Caitlin Clark, I'm from Indiana. Stephanie White's one of the greatest high school basketball players in the history of Indiana.

Like Caitlin Clark, she went to a home state school, Purdue, and lifted Purdue up the way that Caitlin Clark lifted Iowa up. Stephanie White led Purdue to a national championship. then was a first round pick in the WNBA, didn't have a great WNBA career, but then became a coach in the WNBA and has had some success in the WNBA. She failed as a college coach at Vanderbilt. She's returned to the WNBA, had a little bit of success, and previously coached this Alyssa Thomas thug and, you know, co-sign that style of basketball. The other thing about Stephanie White, like Caitlin Clark, she came out of college with a longtime boyfriend who she married and transitioned while in the WNBA to the alternative lifestyle. And she is now married to Lisa Salters, the ESPN sideline reporter, Black woman. And so she's married to a black woman.

Lisa Salters. And there are people like me that are following this closely. It's like they want to convert and transition Caitlin Clark. And Stephanie White may be a part of that. They have similar black grounds. You know, they were, because Stephanie White in her playing days and even now is a relatively attractive woman. She was an attractive young athlete that had a boyfriend, got married, blah, blah,

same Caitlin Clark track, same deal as Caitlin Clark. and they are at odds over style of play. And if you really watch what happened Thursday, five minutes into the third quarter, Caitlin Clark had a bad play through the ball turnover, didn't hustle back on defense and gave up an easy layup. Stephanie White hops out of her chair and angrily calls a timeout. The coaches go and huddle.

the players are sitting on the bench and there's fans have sent me videos of like I was in the arena here's what happened you can see it for yourself that Caitlin Clark is sitting on the bench with the other five players that are in the game and she's planning to go back into the game Stephanie White eventually comes into the huddle points it the backup point guard Raven Johnson and replaces Caitlin Clark five minutes into the third. third quarter. This is like you don't do this to your best player. You don't do this to virtually any starter. We're only five minutes into the third. Why am I getting pulled out? And Caitlin Clark, you can see by her body language, there's no, there's no, her talking to a

trainer about my back. There's no informing. She's not wincing. She's not holding you back. She's not like bending over the way we all would. You know, everyone's had a little back pain here or there. There's Caitlin Clark in the home. She's standing there. Yeah. And when she's not. She's not. She's not. She's not. She's not. She's not. She's not. She's not. She's not. She's She looks fine. Yes. And when she walks away, it looks like, it looks like, but it's not accurate. Two trainers are following her when she walks away.

But if this is the right video, you'll see the trainers, like the woman with the ponytail. Yep. She circles and takes a seat behind the bench. She does not continue to follow Caitlin Clark. So Caitlin Clark, the best player in the league, the biggest draw in the league, allegedly has a back injury, but she's getting no attention from the trainers. She's just walking back into the arena. And then for the next 12 minutes of real time, not game time, but just real time,

the broadcast crew never addresses where is Caitlin Clark? She's not on the bench. She's not on the court. And Megan, you and I know that 12 minutes of TV time might as well be 12 hours. You don't leave some issue unaddressed for 12 minutes. And they're playing the game. You're giving the audience no explanation. The biggest star, the reason why you're watching the game has disappeared and we're

not telling you that she's disappeared. We're not trying to even attempt to find out why she's disappeared. Someone had clearly told the broadcast team, we don't know why Caitlin Clark has disappeared. We don't want you to address it. And so it wasn't really until the start of the first. fourth quarter that they came out with this weak explanation of Caitlin Clark won't return. It's a back injury. And then they show an edited video of Caitlin leaving and paint. You can see her grimace. You can't see her grimace. They're just lying. And so the story.

Bottom line for us. Like what, so why, like, to me, you're telling me she had a hissie fit and took her ball and went home because she wasn't getting played. Like, this is an example of Caitlin behaving like a spoiled brat. Yes, because she is. And most players with her talent are. Most players with her talent and success and what she did in Iowa, and it has to be coached out of them. And that is where I'll defend Stephanie White to some degree.

She's trying to coach the brattiness out of Caitlin Clark. Caitlin loves to cheerlead on the court. She loves to tell the crowd what to do, and she loves to tell the officials what to do. And this has been going on since high school and college. Her dad would be at Iowa Games, and they show him on camera telling Caitlin, hey, shut up. And, you know, mind her own bit. This is just part of a personality quirk that Caitlin Clark has. Doesn't make her the worst person in the world.

It makes her a person that needs some correction. And she's getting it from someone she doesn't respect. Stephanie White, they're at each other's throats and Caitlin Clark walked out. She'd had enough, walked off, and, you know, bad explanation. They eventually concoct after 12 minutes from trying to figure out what to say. But no one wants to talk about that dynamic because they just want to talk about Alyssa Thomas and Caitlin, you know, stabbed her. These hands. Like, it's like, okay, a lot of drama with these ladies. It's a little much for me. But you convinced me because on one of your shows

earlier in June, you showed the moment. It was after a June 10th game. We pulled it from, these are clips we got from you in your show, June 8th, sorry. There was a game. And first, I'm going to do what you did, which is show Caitlin Clark's game winning shot, which was over the Washington Mystics. Thanks to the shot, they won. Here, let's watch it. Here we go. She's running. There we go. She's got the ball. It's a three. It goes in. It's beautiful. They win. Okay. So this should be a huge moment. Doesn't look that huge. She's kind of walking around. All right. Doesn't exactly look like, you know, when the Knicks won. And then you found this video of her walking by her coach, Stephanie White, which you would expect them both to be jubilant. But here's what's happening. She walks by, it's a low. It's a low. It's a low. low high five. She barely, she doesn't. No eye contact. No eye contact from either one of. Yeah.

That's pretty good evidence, I would say. They, that they don't like each other. There's another incident you showed where then, so that Caitlin got, they called a foul on Caitlin that you showed and you said it was a bullshit call. Caitlin actually didn't foul anybody. It was like they shouldn't have called this. And then Stephanie White, the coach, got interviewed at halftime in the spot where we would have expected Caitlin Clark to be giving the interview. You pointed out on your show.

So it's kind of odd that the coach took over the interview. But, okay, so what does she do? Does she say, that was a bullshit call. Caitlin did nothing wrong. Like, these reps are out of control. Nope. This is what she says in SOT 19. Bowls are frustrating.

What are you going to tell your group just to adjust about this next half, but not lose your physicality? You got to be disciplined. We've got to be more discipline. I mean, we're fouling when it's unnecessary. because we're in four position to start. So she basically threw out under the bus, Jason. So why doesn't she like Caitlin?

They are, look, I'm sorry for saying this, Megan. They're women. They don't support each other. And they compete with each other. They compete with each other. And so Stephanie White was Caitlin Clark 20-some-odd years ago.

and again she was the hometown hero and there's some jealousy and look there's a player that she that Stephanie White can't get to submit to her style of play and that's where Caitlin Clark is right that Stephanie White's style of play doesn't work for Caitlin Clark it's not the right style and Caitlin Clark won't buy in and so they just dislike each other as in they're competing with each other and Stephanie White thinks look you know I could have been you or I was you and I know what you should do and Caitlin Clark's like not with that stupid style of play you're talking about and you know Lisa I'm sure Caitlin thinks Lisa Bluter was a better coach than her and they just The Indiana fever have surrounded Caitlin Clark with the wrong people, including the head coach.

They haven't managed a superstar. It's like there was a very, very beautiful young, smart lady that was on this news station that she was a superstar. And they just didn't know how to manage her at Fox News. and she had to go independent to really, really succeed. Fox? Fox did okay. I'm not sure about the next place. Well, all right, NBC.

They just didn't know how to manage her. And she had to go independent. I'm sure you can relate to that. You've heard that story before, haven't you? Yeah, I will say it's a lot easier to go independent as a news anchor than I think it is as a basketball player. There you go. That's the business she's chosen.

So good luck to them all. Honestly, these are some of the reasons. why I don't watch the WMBA. I don't really watch any sports, but I do watch Jason Whitlock, and all of you should too, because honestly, like, your breakdowns of these games have been so entertaining. I'm here for it. Thank you, my friend. Great to see you.

Thank you. All right. Up next, what CBS News is now reporting about who the first ransom note in the Nancy Guthrie case was addressed to, that and much more on the very latest. This case may be changing. Our sponsor, the Electronic Payments Coalition, says Washington politicians are always getting in your wallet and that now they're messing with your credit card. They say your credit card and the security it offers are under attack and that Senators Dick Durbin and Roger Marshall want to change the nation's payment system

to benefit corporate megastores like Walmart and Target at the expense of everyday Americans. Credit cards can keep your payments secure and provide rewards that families use to help make everyday purchases more affordable or go on trips. We've all done it. The Electronic Payments Coalition says the Durbin Marshall mandates would let corporate megastores cut corners on credit card processing, routing transactions over cheaper, untested networks with weaker security and fewer protections. Find out more for yourself at guard.com and consider telling Congress to guard your card. We're going to get into the latest on the Nancy Guthrie investigation in just a moment, but we have got breaking news out of the UK and the Henry Novak case.

that we have got to show you. A jury last month found Vikram Digwa guilty of murdering 18-year-old Henry. He was sentenced to life in prison with a minimum of 21 years that must be served. Now, prosecutors are appealing that, saying the sentence is too lenient. I mean, it's very rare for prosecutors to have to appeal saying the sentence is too lenient, but they're doing that here because while a life sentence sounds real, the 21-year minors, is concerning, and they're apparently concerned that it actually will be all he serves, which would clearly not be enough for what this guy did. This is because Digwa clearly lied about Novak racially attacking him.

He let him die and bleed out on the street, saying to police that Henry had attacked him based on his race, the fact that he's a Sikh. and Henry was bleeding out steps away. He let that happen. He tried to hide from authorities that he was the one who had stabbed Henry in their fatal encounter over and over and over again as Henry had tried to run away from this maniac

and was getting stabbed in the back of the legs. Now, we've detailed many of DIGWA's lies about the case on this show previously. We've even showed you all the falsehoods that his brother made in his 999 call, that's the UK's version of 911. We have real questions about why the brother is not under arrest, seriously. But now we have Digwa himself, the actual murderer on tape in police body cam footage that has just been obtained by the BBC and put out on their website.

This is Vikram Digwa, the one who had repeatedly stabbed Henry. As you watch this, you keep that in mind. He had just repeatedly stabbed him. Here he is directly telling the police that Henry Novak racially attacked him, which is a lie. Again, zero, zero proof of that as Henry is steps away receiving CPR. Watch. The gentleman that's on the floor with my son.

He's like to push my turban off my head, started grabbing my hand, so on my seat. And he started grabbing on my head. my hair started dragging me around and obviously from there then obviously alter patients happened. My brother's seen it stopped it and that's when he then started stumbling around started climbing around all these sort of bits and stuff like that. So literally I saw him from there from the get-go from there I saw look mate you clearly are obviously drunk I said to him carry on with your day he said that

and then he started just escalating the situation called me a and all this sort of stuff and this isn't the first time we've had something like this happening again we've lived there for since I've went four or five Okay, so that's him saying he grabbed me by the turban. I said, you're clearly drunk. By the way, Henry wasn't. And then he called me and they bleeped it out there. But it was, it's the, I guess it's just as offensive in the UK as the N-word is over here, P-A-K-I.

And he said that's what he was called by Henry, a lie. All lies. He didn't grab you by the turban. He wasn't drunk. And he didn't call you that word. Like, these are all lies. In the next clip, Digua finds time to complain about the police lights, which he finds slightly irritating to his eyes and declines to tell the authorities that Henry Novak is bleeding out at this very moment because the CPR's not going to save him, you see. He's bleeding to death internally because you stabbed him. Watch this.

Especially in that moment. She turned the flashes off, sorry. We can't remember them the fright. So I can move over here then, so it's not too much in my eyesight. So this is when he got me in the place, a fair few good times as are. Where do you live, sir? Okay. So you've had an altercation with this guy?

Yeah. This isn't the first time. We've had altercation during, not even altercations. We've had people racially attack us during the morning. Okay. My hair started grabbing my hair or something, and all this sort of stuff. Okay.

And then I'll get it. Do you know how he's got that? He's got that wound then. How has he got that wound? What room? Sorry. Well, he's got, you said he's got blood on him. How is he?

It must have been when we punched him, but he did fall over here, so he was climbing all over these bins and stuff like that. And then he fell over and then landed onto that car. Okay. Must have been when we punched him. That's why he's bleeding. He knows full well. He has stabbed him five times. He stabbed him.

He's bleeding to death. The time codes would later show us that Henry had stopped breathing 13 minutes prior to that. He's dying. He's possibly dead. And here he's still misleading the police officer. Here we see the police officer telling Digwa he's going to be arrested. Oh, and by the way, before I move on, in that clip also you heard Digwa go on about how he's been multiple times, he's been attacked multiple times, racial attacks multiple times.

This is where he got me in the face several times playing the victim. We've had racial attacks before he goes on. Sure. Sure you have. You've been perpetrating them. Because there's absolutely no reason to this moment to understand why you attacked and killed Henry Novak, other than possibly his race and your own grievance. Again, all lies. But hook-line and sinker by the police as Henry lay dying.

Here we're going to see the officer telling Digwa that he's going to be arrested on suspicion of attempted murder. but notice one thing. Digua, not handcuffed. Watch. Okay, mate, right. This is really important. Okay. The time now is 1155. Okay, it's important, mate. All right. At this time, I'm arresting you on suspicion of the tech murder. Okay. Do you want to say anything? It may harm your defense. If you don't mention when question, something which you may like to rely on the court, anything you do, so maybe given evidence. Okay. The necessities are for a prompt and effective investigation. Okay.

and frankly further harm and injury. You've got your story, mate. We don't know what's going on here, okay? So we just need to find out, okay? I'm starting sure what's going on here. I've gone nine for attempt murder with the gentleman that I've run through. Have we got a van at all that I can get him down to Central?

Yeah, and indeed it would be actual murder, not attempted, because Henry died. And as the video ends, DIGWA again repeats the lie. that Novak racially attacked him. Watch. Okay, and we'll get it all sorted, all right? I'm not saying you've done anything, mate.

But we need to find out what's happened, okay? I've been retired. I know, I know. Okay. I know. I've been racially attacked. We don't know what's going on, mate. He's...

The video captions read. He does not finish his sentence. The police officer, he's about to give an update on Henry. And based on the BBC's reporting, we now know it took police eight minutes. to find Henry's stab wounds, just one of them, the one into his lung, took them eight minutes. They reportedly took off his clothing once they realized that there could be, and obviously had been catastrophic injuries, and were apparently shocked, shocked to see him bleeding out. It's all because they believed this man and his brother and their false claims from the moment they

arrived on scene. And while they found, and there was testimony, that the police really couldn't have done anything to save Henry, he was too catastrophically injured. So even if they had noticed that he'd been bleeding out and that he'd been repeatedly stabbed from the second they got there, that they probably couldn't have saved his life, I guess we'll never know. Moreover, what happened in Henry's last moments was he was treated like a criminal. He was handcuffed. He was dismissed. His complaints that he'd been stabbed, were ignored and argued with and overruled by that same police officer. We heard talking to Vikram Degwa, his murderer. So he was ignored. He wasn't believed. He was in clear distress. It was overlooked.

And Vikram Degwa was believed hook, lion, and sinker. Everything he said was believed. It was accepted until Henry died. And then they started to reevaluate. and ultimately had to arrest him without even putting cuffs on him because, you know, he was a racial minority. That's what it came down to. They in the UK have been operating under these principles for quite some time.

For quite some time. We've covered the rapes of the young girls there, the white girls for the most part by Muslim immigrants, didn't pay any attention to it. In fact, it actively worked to cover it up for years because of skin color, because of racial sensitivities, possibly religious sensitivities. It's absurd.

Crime is crime. It can be done by either race, any race against another. And these cops in the UK walked right into this thing primed to believe the Vikram Digwas of the world and to see the Henry Novak's as the bad guys. I don't even know what it's going to take to revisit this. to eliminate this. It's, it's, it's, Henry's death and the embarrassment they've faced, it's not enough. That's, they're not going to change. This is like, this is a sick ideological perversion of the mind that, like, we need a whole new generation to come into policing in the UK and, and replace these people. Because this is just, it's too dangerous right now for young white men in particular.

And that's, that tape is embarrassing. It's yet another black eye for the police and the system that allowed this. And I agree with them. The prosecutors, they should pursue that 21-year minimum because it should be much, much higher. That guy and his brother and the mother. Let's not forget, she hid the murder knife. And she was found guilty of doing that too. So, I mean, it's a criminal family that's been getting away with their lies over and over again.

Who knows how many other people they've hurt? I really, I'd love, somebody should be doing a deep dive on that in the UK press right now. What other cases have they been involved in? Have they brought any civil suits? What has their story been? I'd love to know because they seem to be pathological to me. Poor Henry and poor Henry's family. At last, the truth is known.

The body cams show exactly how negligent the police were and how biased they were. And, you know, it's not unlike what we talked about. with Jason Whitlock. Like, it's some sort of a sickness. It's like a mind sickness around the issue of race and minority. You know, and my only question is, as, you know, whites head into the minority, because we will be in the UK and here in the next 15 years or so, is it going to work the other way?

Is there going to be a benefit of the doubt you get when the minority is white and you happen to be a white person? Somehow I doubt it. By the way, speaking of our talk with Jason, it just broke that Caitlin Clark is not going to play this Saturday saying that her back injury is still preventing her from being out there. Is it her back injury or is it her quiet punishment from her coach for quitting the game as Jason theorizes? No proof of that, just his opinion. But she didn't look like she was in a lot of pain in that one video. In any event, that's the update from the UK.

We're going to take a quick break when I come back and we're going to talk. about the latest in the Nancy Guthrie case because we just found out that Harvey Levin just got another note from the man who claims he knows who the kidnapper is and has an update on how he can prove it. You might already own a firearm, but what if you could start with less lethal methods to avoid the financial and mental repercussions of pulling the trigger of a loaded gun? This is where Berna comes in. That's B-Y-R-N-A. Berna's less lethal launchers are equipped with tear gas and kinetic ammunition and designed to incapacitate an attacker for up to 40 minutes. And Berna is excited to introduce the all-new compact launcher.

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but God forbid it were turned against you. It would not be a fatal event. Try before you buy. Visit berna.com to find a burner dealer partner near you. That's bryrna.com. There are several breaking updates in the search for Nancy Guthrie today. TMZ's Harvey Levin getting a new email from the person who claims he knows the identities of Nancy's abductors. Okay, this is this person confusing, but just say with me. there were two so-called ransom notes by the person the FBI, apparently, reportedly claims, was the real abductor that went first to Harvey Levin at, well, to TMZ and a bunch of local Tucson news stations. That was right after Nancy was taken, the first week. The second week after Nancy was taken, Harvey Levin at TMZ started to receive other emails from some dude, which is called, him the friend of the kidnapper. This is just made up. We have no idea whether he knows

the actual kidnapper or not, or whether they're friends. It's just a good short form. The friend of the kidnapper saying, I know who has her, suggesting it was multiple to two, two people, suggesting, though not explicitly, that it may have been south of the border, that they had her, and suggesting he had seen her. Firstly, everybody we've had on thinks that that guy is bullshit. And many, if not most, think that the first thing that the first of, first notes are bullshit too. But they appear, though it's not confirmed, this is also unknown, they appear to be different people writing the notes. The first two notes 100% are connected, you know, demanding ransom. And then we heard earlier this week, the second one was

more like she died, sorry. Those two definitely included the same identifying information and reportedly the same Bitcoin address account because the authorities were satisfied. It was the same person. And this new guy, he keeps asking for Bitcoin to reveal his information too and continues to put the same Bitcoin account in all of his correspondence, although Harvey says in this latest one he changed the Bitcoin demand or the account, but made a reference to the one he'd been using just to prove it was the same guy. Now this guy, this time, the friend of the kidnapper, is claiming that he has footage of Nancy and the main kidnapper. Again, intimating that there's more than one. He's got actual video footage of Nancy.

Okay. Plus, CBS News, the separate matter, is now also reporting that the first ransom note ever sent in this case was addressed directly to Savannah. Now, that's the first we've heard that. Remember, that came in again, as I said to TMZ. and also to local news stations and had demands. They haven't said a lot about that one specifically because that's the mother load right there. That's the one. If this really is the real dude, this is the email that made them believe that. It's the one that allegedly described what Nancy was wearing, described the location of her phone, sorry, her Apple Watch.

And also, what's the third thing? describe the floodlight on the outside, the broken floodlight on the outside of the home. And now this is the first we've heard that that note was sent directly. It was addressed directly to Savannah. CBS News reporting, do we have that actually? Yeah, here it is. Here's CBS Evening News reporter Jonathan Vigliotti reporting this, SOT-51. The note was the second of two that investigators believe were sent by the same person in the days'

following Nancy Guthrie's disappearance February 1st. Sources tell CBS News the first note was written directly to Savannah, reading in part, hello Savannah, we have your mother, Nancy. The message included a ransom demand and described the exact location of Nancy's Apple Watch inside her bedroom, a detail investigators never made public. Chilling. Joining me now, James Fitzgerald. He is a former supervisory special agent for the FBI.

He's now the co-host of the Cold Red Pipecast. And for the first time on this show, John Kelly. John's a veteran criminal profiler and psychotherapist. His profiling expertise has been used in well-known cases, such as the Green River Killer. That case involved a serial killer who was convicted of murdering 48 women. He also helped contribute to the solving of the Golden State Killer in 2018, helping find a man who had committed 13 murders across the state of California. James, John, thank you both so much for being here with us today.

and John, welcome to the program. Thank you so much for having me, Megan. Thank you. Any Kelly is a friend of mine. And you know what? Our cousin Mr. Fitzgerald, he's all right. That's right. Basically, you're figuring out my whole method for how people get booked on this show.

Maureen O'Connell. I mean, I got my quiet litmus test. Okay, let's talk about this. So, James, I haven't heard from you since we learned the details of the second note. Okay, we'll get to Harvey in that news in a minute, but I want to prioritize the actual news about the possible real kidnapper. And I'm only saying that's not my judgment. That's just Savannah thinks those first two notes were real. And I know Savannah, she's very smart. She's a lawyer herself. And I'm telling you, there's no way Savannah thinks

those two notes are real if the FBI has told her they don't think that they're real. Like, I believe the FBI told her we think they're probably authentic. And that's why she believes it. Because I just don't think she would deviate from what the FBI is telling her. She would realize she didn't have the expertise. And Harvey Levin is reporting that the FBI told him they believe those first two notes are real, meaning from the real abductor slash kidnapper. That doesn't mean they are.

They're just saying we're distinguishing between those two and all the rest. Well, what we learned earlier this week is what the second note from the so-called real abductor actually had in it. Howard Bloom had some exclusive reporting on it that set off a firestorm of reporters who had apparently known and been sitting on it to tell us what exactly was in there. The best summary I've heard is from Brianna Whitney. She now works as a crime reporter for crime junkie, which is a podcast. But at the time, like up until recently, she worked for the sister news outlet. of KOLD, the one that received both notes.

And she said in that capacity, she actually had eyes on both notes that she's read them both. And here is how she described the contents of the second note, which I'd love to get your thoughts on. I have spent months and months covering the Nancy Guthrie case, boots on the ground. And in my former role, before I came to crime junkie,

I was made aware of what these ransom notes said, as I was reporting on the case, I've seen them with my own eyes. So I want to actually provide more context as to what that second note said. The way that this note was written, it's written as we. Like, we didn't know this, as if it was some sort of team or whoever was involved in this. It said, we did not fully grasp the seriousness of her physical condition. It went on to say that they never intended to hurt her during all of this. They continued and said, she perished shortly after she was taken. They believe that it was heart-related, and then what the reports were confirming earlier today, that she was buried with nature.

And maybe the most important part of the second ransom note, it said, nothing you could have done could have changed the outcome. We are truly sorry. Your thoughts, Fitz. Along with being, first of all, Megan, great to be back with you. Along with being a criminal profiler, I'm also a forensic linguist. And I cut my teeth on the Unabom case, got my master's. degree of Georgetown after that. So I've been dealing mostly with language in cases, you know,

since the mid-90s. And I've helped, you know, resolve a bunch of them to identify anonymous authors, whatever. And the first thing I always want to understand when looking at something like this, we're using the word note. You did and the reporter that you showed. I think what we're describing that was an email, correct? Well, all I know is that in the case of TMZ, they were uploading it on the tips website part of the TN. You know, so, like, that was one of the ways that they were reportedly masking who they were, is like, you go on there and you upload it, and it's unidentifiable. So I'm not sure.

I'm not sure. I know the friend, the friend notes are being described by Harvey as emails. As for the original one and two, those I don't know. All right. And the content is what we would be looking at here. But the question is I would still want to know how they are being transmitted, how they are winding up. This would have been so, so easy for the kidnappers, and I use that word loosely here, from day one, from night one, to leave some kind of a note on the table. We have your mother.

We want money. We'll call you or this Bitcoin account, whatever they would set up. You know, there are so few kidnappings for ransom in this country. I mean, legitimate kidnapping for ransom. We've been over this before, Megan, I know. But it's just so rare. Lindberg, Frank Sinatra Jr., you know, Sydney Riso in early 90s, Exxon executive.

They are so rare. And then now we have these notes, which may be post, which may be emails. And all we're getting is snippets. So it's hard for me as a forensic linguist. Back in the day, when I was working cases in the Bureau, I would have the entire message, including with, you know, every case, Daniel Pearl, D.C. sniper. In fact, in D.C. sniper, I'll never.

forget there was a leak because some journalists had a source and in the tarot card they repeated the words I am God where I happen to see the tarot card the actual one it said call me God a big difference it's a reference to a movie with a sniper who won't by the nickname of God power of life and death so I want to be careful that we don't necessarily know the exact language in these notes in these posts in these emails whatever they are but having said all that I am still highly skeptical of their provenance, of their validity, of their legitimacy. And I would say this, you know, the investigators would be remiss not to follow up on them, go through all the, you know, computer analysis they can do to find out where these are originating,

whatever, look at language features. I hope there's a forensic linguist within the bureau or someone they've contracted to come in and look at the actual raw language contained therein. Maybe that could help male, female, you know, native speaker of English or not. you know, do the dollar sign go before or after the number, all things, that which me indication of a European possibly. So there's so much they may have there. But I see no reason at this point in time for new notes or whatever we're calling them to be coming in. And this person, I'll leave it at this for now. This person is really taking a risk saying, I know who did it.

I know their names, addresses, and ages. And just send me this. I don't know if you still wants the one Bitcoin or not. I'm confused about that part. But he does. I think. Which I'm I think is $61,000. I just looked it up, U.S. currency, and not a whole lot of money. It would be a nice quick payday for him. The family wouldn't have to be putting, you know, all that much out. But this doesn't hold water for me.

Again, investigators, I'm talking to you now. You have to follow through in this. I get it. But I don't put a whole lot of weight in this. What's the purpose at this point in time with something new? And two of all places, TMZ, nothing against those guys there. Send it directly to the family, which alleged, the first note went to or the FBI. But a cell phone hidden somewhere, it's almost like some

kind of Dungeons and Dragons game being played at this point. And I think it's by an opportunist. What do you think? I'd love to get your thoughts overall, John, but can I just ask you specifically first about that news that that first alleged ransom note was directed to Savannah specifically? No, I have a whole, I have a really hard time with it. I mean, I can understand them using Savannah's name, but, you know, as soon as they make this privy to the press in the way they did, I mean, man, you've got everybody standing to attention, every law enforcement agent in the area and around the country. And I just, I just don't, I don't really get with it. I understand, you know, we know where the watch was. We've described where the watch was.

We're talking about the light outside, you know, and it having a problem. We're describing her pajamas. But I really, really, or the clothes they said she left with. I mean, I really have a problem with the whole thing. It's either an extremely unsophisticated guy, an extremely stupid kind of guy. But as far as being a professional kidnapper or have done kidnappings in the past, I would certainly say no way. No way. I mean, this guy's dripping of a rookie, dripping of stupid rookie as far as I'm concerned.

Why? Because the tape on the porch? I'm sorry? Why? What leads you there? Well, I mean, there's just no sophistication here. I mean, why would you tell the world? You know, it's like Jim was kind of talking about, you know, if you want to do a kidnapping or something,

you want to get the person, and they're really not a person to you, they're an object. They're an object for money. You've objectified them. So you're going to grab that person, take that person as quick as you can. You're not going to spend 40-some minutes in the house. And you're going to take off with that person. You're going to already have it set up how you're going to make contact. you're going to try and make contact in the most private way you possibly can

because you don't want other people involved and you're going to try and lower your risk if you're a professional and you have some sophistication that you've been around. And I see none of this here. I see like somebody on a billboard broadcasting all over the place. Hey, you know, I've got Nancy Guthrie for here, Savannah. And, you know, I want to be. bunch of money for her and I want

$4 million, you know, I'll give you a discount if you give me the money on Thursday and if not, I, you know, I'll have to wait until Monday, but I want it Monday and I want $6 million, you know? So I think that's very,

very, this is all very interesting to me. You know, some of it looks pretty stupid. And I've got a question, and I don't want to interrupt you, Megan, but I've got a question for Jim. And, you know, he's a, he's, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's, he's, a, he's, a, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, show up at type of personality, pretty much that grabs women like them. I mean, you're usually psychopathic kind of personalities, you know, you know, that's going to, you know, you know, you know, show up at two 30. in the morning, break in.

to this 84-year-old woman's house, you're going to have a mask on, you're going to have a gun hanging from your groin, you're going to go in and you're going to wake her up, you're going to startle the hell out of her. I don't know how the woman didn't die from shock or from a heart attack with seeing this, you know, and being woken up like this.

So then you're going to spend 40 minutes, minutes in there doing whatever you're going to do. Then the next thing, you know, this woman is being taken from her house. Okay. Now, I'm not hearing or I have heard nothing was taken from her house. Right? The only thing they pretty much that I heard was stolen was her. Okay.

So now she's been. I've heard the same. So she's being taken from her house, right? So now I'm not hearing about clothes missing. that a kidnapper would need to keep her in. I'm not hearing about medication that a kidnapper would need to keep her alive. I'm not hearing about any kind of sanitary stuff that a woman that's going to be kept in captivity for a number of days before she's traded for money is missing.

I don't hear about anything at all. I'm not, you know, hearing about shoes. I don't know if the lady left in shoes. Okay. No, Savannah said no shoes. Okay, no shoes, right? Now, some kidnapper here, right? So now this guy is hauling her a bloody mess.

Okay, this poor old woman who has been grabbed in such a cruel, horrific way from her bed, and being hauled out in that house is a bloody mess. And probably right from where the blood drops, she probably probably, was dumped into some kind of vehicle, my thinking only. Okay, and some of the people in our group, okay? So bottom line there, what kind of person are we dealing with? To me, this has psychopath written all over it in my mind, okay? Now all of a sudden there's a second note, and you're a linguistics guy, okay?

And I'm a linguistics guy too, all right? So now we're looking at this guy hauling her way. And the first note, he's talking all dollars and what he wants for it. And now- And it reportedly ended, John, the first note reportedly ended according to TMZ with the words, or else. Like you will give us this money and said, or else. That was number one.

Keep going. So anyway, so now we got this cruel scum bag. I'm sorry. Okay, and this lady is hauled away. And now we get a second note. Now, the first note, if you look at the words, they're what I would expect from a psychopath, you know, that's an unfeeling's kind of guy.

I mean, you know, there's three different, you know, types of primary intake senses when it comes to linguistics that are more or less used consistently. You know, one is visual, one is auditory, any other's feelings kinesthetic. Okay. I have not met a psychopath yet that has a kinesthetic

primary intake sense. In fact, I have not found a psychopath yet that feels hardly anything. I, and believe me, I know a couple of them and I'm up close and personal because I study them. And they know it. They,

we have an agreement. Now, the reason for this is they don't, they really don't do guilt or remorse. I mean, they've told me right to my face. John, I can't feel guilty remorse.

It's just that simple. Now, how much is genetic? Yes, they were abused growing up too, but I do believe there's that slight genetic piece. Now, going on, we have this guy now, this cruel man that did this. He's turning around

and he's saying more or less kind of But he's not saying exactly sorry, but it was not intentional. Okay. She perished. I have never heard one of these guys. These are hard guys. They use words like perished.

No one does. She's dead. It's a weird word. She's dead. Okay. I mean, these guys, that's how they're coming across. All right. Yeah.

And not just that, but like, you know, that nothing you could have done would have saved her trying to make the family feel better, just like sort of soft, softening it all. Hold on. I had it right in front of me, but yeah, yeah, here it is. We believe it was heart-related. She's been buried with nature.

We never intended to hurt her. She perished shortly after she was taken. Nothing you could have done could have changed the outcome. We did not fully grasp the seriousness of her condition. I take your point, John, which is what? What a difference in tonality, in approach. And, you know, what fits, what O'Connell was saying yesterday and James was here too,

was, that's a fraudster. That's how a fraudster does. Like, they try the one tack, like brass knuckles. That didn't get a payment. So now they're all like, oh, we're like the sweet kidnappers who, we just want to let you know something terrible happened. It was totally unforeseen. They didn't reiterate their demand reportedly for money. that second note but that was their take like now it's the grifter back trying method number two

to get cash and who knows from breaking into the house breaking into the house early in the morning sorry go ahead and who knows go yeah that's sorry go ahead thank you go ahead and who knows from eastern europe from uh you know sub-saharan africa uh or could be someone you know very much local uh these these these particular communications, that's what I'll call them instead of notes per se. They are flowery all over the place and they really don't make any sense. The problem is we don't have much of a baseline of actual kidnappings in this country, as I described earlier. Yeah, parental things and custody things we have, human trafficking, those things, but a for-profit sort of stranger kidnapping, they are so rare, they are so out of the ordinary

that we really don't have that template in terms of what kind of notes are they going to have. The closest we've come to it was the John Bonae Ramsey case in 96 in Boulder, Colorado. But of course, that was never an actually kidnapping. But someone took, you know, the time to write a three-page note. There was actually a practice note put in the trash. And then the other note came out with the kind of demands, how much money. You'll do this, you'll do that. There was really none of that here.

And it was very piecemeal and almost nonsensical from the beginning. I've always said, Megan, and on your show back in February, multiple days in a row, this was a successful abduction that we can criticize all we want in and out 40 minutes, you know, taking something, not taking something. But it was a failed kidnapping. And then I posited, you know, after a few weeks, it never was meant to be a kidnapping. This was done for some other reason, something personal. John mentions, you know, psychopathy.

You got to be careful. John knows that you can't, of course, psycho do a psychoval without actually doing testing but uh i'm not even ruling out erotomania that this guy was a stalker perhaps of savannah and he couldn't get to her the building she lived in in manhattan was too well protected kids etc what's the next best thing uh do something to the mom and whether it went wrong whether it went right she died too soon but this guy is so scared right now he had his own reasons for doing this personal uh you know perceived relationship he may have met savannah in the past He may have, you know, shared emails with her, you know, very perfunctory and very basic back and forth.

And she had no idea that maybe she was pissing off some guy by not giving him, you know, the second 8 by 10 glossy or actually doing a phone call with him, something like that. And he goes and said, well, I'll show her. And he does this thing. Again, successful abduction. I don't think it was ever meant to be a kidnapping. And these letters, while they still have to be investigated, notes, communications, I think they're going to basically lead down. a, you know, a rabbit hole that basically takes the investigators nowhere. Let me, let me follow up on the Aradomania thing, because you know, I've discussed it many times,

and unfortunately, I've had it in my own life. Here is something very interesting on this front. I've told this story once before in the air, but I know somebody who was a psychiatrist at a prison hospital for years. Very well-respected psychiatrist. And he told me years ago that there was a, you know, it's not the only test it was, but one of the tools they would use in figuring out whether a patient who was coming in, a prisoner, was a sociopath, right? No empathy whatsoever was the following riddle. They would offer this riddle to all the prisoners. And the ones who were not sociopaths would have one kind of answer. And the ones who were sociopaths would have one kind of answer. And the ones who were sociopaths, would all have a different answer, but the sociopaths would answer it the same way. Okay. And the, the riddle is, um, guy goes to the funeral of a woman. While they're mourning, the decedent, guy makes eye contact with a, um, a woman who's there, who's also attending the funeral and thinks that they had like a

moment. Like the two of them exchange a glance. It lingers for a couple of seconds. Whatever. The funeral ends. Everybody goes there separate ways. Two weeks later, guy kills that woman's mother. Why? And the answer is anything, if you're normal. If you're a sociopath, you know it immediately, and they all have it instantly, and it is because he wanted to see her again. that's the way a sociopath thinks and so to your point on the erratomania theory jim like what if you can't have access to savannah but what you really want is contact of some sort with savannah why not this this would be a great way of having savanna think about you and being in savanna's life and like possibly even coming together with her physically in the future like a future like

at a trial or something in some way. You just, like, they don't think the way we do fits. Absolutely not. The brain, the synapses don't connect as they should, especially depending on the level of degree and, you know, how many other examples. This was probably, Savannah was probably not the first victim that this person obsessed over.

And again, I worked in New York City in the 90s, and I was up at NBC about once a month and the various mostly female employees there, you know, the on-air personnel, before you were in that area, Megan. But, you know, once a month I was dealing with the head of a security. Hey, another letter. Mostly then, back then letters put a lead out to whatever city they came from. Hey, you sent this kind of strange letter to someone, you know, so-and-so at NBC.

Did you really plan to hurt her or do anything? And as long as they got a confirmation, no. The guy had no prior record. He wasn't about to travel. They said, you know, all right, no problem. You're good. But so yeah, and I'm hoping, and again, I said this back in February, Megan. I'm hoping the investigators are searching every single email Savannah ever received.

She's the outlier to this kidnapping. Obviously, she brings the financial element to it. She's the one that could pay the bigger bucks, you know, several million, 15, 20 million, whatever it is. And so that's a factor to consider. But she's also the on-air personality. There are plenty of wealthy people out there. And now we find out letter number one was a job. addressed to her.

Which I didn't know that back then either. So that is very interesting. And then they perhaps backed off. But again, there was never about getting money, never about any sort of financial benefit to this person. This was saying, I now have something of yours. And quite frankly, maybe the person did not plan for Nancy Guthrie to die. And it's very likely with her delicate condition she did, you know, suffer an early death

and an awful death because of this trauma. But nonetheless, he would have loved to sit around and talk to her for weeks at a time. What was Savannah like growing up? And, you know, can you draw some pictures for me? Whatever the fantasy life of this person would be. But that didn't happen. And I think this person then got rid of Nancy, probably not too far as the crow flies from that house. And then went deep and dark and it just hasn't come up since.

The other stuff, as I said, opportunist. And isn't writing these notes. No. Here's an argument in favor of it is the. guy writing the notes. I don't mean John necessarily porch man. Maybe he was working with somebody. I don't know. But here's an argument that the perpetrator is the one writing the notes. CBS News, I played to you their revelation that the first ransom note was addressed, Dear Savannah. What they didn't report weirdly in their on-air piece, but did report at cbs.com, their website,

was that the note gave highly specific details about Guthrie's home, including that an Apple Watch, which we knew, that he said where it was placed, but they reveal that the note revealed an Apple Watch with a white band was on the floor of her bedroom. Now, I don't know whether they made a mistake there, but that is the first I've seen that reported anywhere. And of course, all the news organizations were asked

to withhold some details because, you know, if they get the guy, they want to be able to test him with information that the public could never have accessed. But there it is. I mean, how else, like, if you're a fraudster trying to take advantage of this poor suffering family to try to get them to send you $4 million or $6 million if they wait until Monday, how would you know that there's an Apple Watch with a white band that was on the floor of her bedroom? Now we're getting really specific. And maybe that's exactly what investigators found. That's not even the kind of thing like a maid two weeks earlier could attest to. You know, like that's, you were there. You saw something the night of the crime.

Like I'm starting to glean why they may believe these notes, these first two were authentic, John. Well, that's very possible. But, you know, if you also go to theory that somebody is really obsessed with Savannah and they're following this case, you know, from head to tail, and they're following the news all the time because that's what they do. They obsess. They obsess with the news. They look for stories all over the place. As a matter of fact, the person that took Savannah, or I'm sorry, that took Nancy,

I'm sure we'll be looking at us today too. But anyway, I just want to get back to that. I mean, so he could have picked that up. from the news. Now, you're the first person that's bringing that out to me. I have not heard that before. And I think that is just unbelievable.

CBS just posted it. That is really unbelievable on how that information could have gotten out, okay? Because I'm going to talk in the linguistics on, I want Jim's feedback on this. Jim, we know these guys don't have feelings number one,

lots of them. They, you know, these kidnappers they were no feeling if they fell over, right? So now this guy's talking about unintentional. He's talking about parished with nature. What did you ever hear of a hard guy, right? A psychopath. So, oh, she perished with nature. Oh, it was unintentional.

Have you ever heard that, Fis? They don't use verbatts like that. No. It doesn't use verbat. She's laying. So let him answer. Go ahead. Sorry, go ahead.

Go ahead. Yeah, and by the way, buried with nature, all of us will be buried with nature. We could be chopped up, shallow grave, regular grave, a pond, a lake in the desert. We're going to be buried with nature. There's nothing, to me, unusual about that. And look, I also want to be something we should throw out here. I've had friends over the years, kind of for jokes, at least my friends, go to see a psychic, and it's fun to talk to them, and maybe they get little tidbits.

It's amazing. what a well-trained, experienced psychic can come up with and tell you about yourself. They're very well skilled in that department. I'm not saying the person who did this with writing the notes is a psychic, but I'm saying I'd like to see the actual language, and it could be very much just generic and sort of suggestive of this, and maybe the investigators have, you know, blinders on. I said, oh, well, okay, the watch was kind of over there, but maybe they meant that it was here, and they go in that regard. We have to be careful, and we're also only getting sources.

I'd love to see the notes, letters themselves. That could help us along. I know. They won't release them. All right. Actually, we're going to hold you guys over. We're going to go to break. We're going to keep this rolling. But I have something to show you right after this break a picture that may change the discussion entirely.

Stand by. Don't go away. Series X-Emmers. We will be right back. And by the way, it's Friday. Go to Megan Kelly.com and sign up for our American News Minute. Comes out today. Stredwick Update coming your way.

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Sirius X-M. It's called the Megan Kelly channel, and it is where you will hear the truth, unfiltered with no agenda, and no apologies. Along with the Megan Kelly show, you're going to hear from people like Mark Halperin, Link Lauren, Morin Callahan, Emily Jashinsky, Jesse Kelly, Real Clear Politics, and many more. It's bold, no BS news. Only on Megan Kelly Channel, Sirius XM 111 and on the Sirius XM-Path. I hope they find it. I mean, Savannah's gone through a rough.

That family's gone through hell, but I hope they find it. President Trump weighing in on the case after having been asked about it and saying, I hope they find her. Unfortunately, he didn't sound as optimistic as he did the last time he was asked about this and weighed in.

There he was outside under an umbrella in a rainy day. The first time was on Air Force One and said, you know, he felt optimistic. Remember that there was going to be breaking news, and we later found out what that was about. It was the porch video of Porch Man. So he did have reason for optimism, though that didn't wind up solving it, at least not yet. Back with me now, James Fitzgerald. He's a former supervisory special agent for the FBI, now the co-host of the Cold Red podcast.

And John Kelly's with us, too, a veteran criminal profiler and psychotherapist. Guys, great to have you back again. Here's the picture I wanted to show you. So we discussed how the perpetrator might have been out there stalking, getting information about Savannah. Take a look at Nancy Guthrie in this picture. Notice anything on her left arm? Yeah. It's a Fitbit or whatever.

Apple Watch with a white band. Apple Watch with a white band. Not for nothing, but you can see Nancy's skin. This happens sometimes with the elderly with her skin looks almost. purple from the mid-forearm down, just underscoring that she was a fragile old lady. This is 2023, so three years before she would be abducted. You can see, I mean, look at that. It's like the picture of somebody who is frail.

You can see her cane. You can see her old skin, you know, I mean aging. I don't mean, you know, old. I mean aging skin. Obviously a circulatory problem because you can see the blood is pulling down on her extremities. And you can see the watch. So it's telling from a number of perspectives. Now, the CBS.com report said that the perpetrator described Apple Watch with a white band

on the floor of her bedroom. So, you know, if you're just somebody taking a shot, that's risky to say that's where it was when you don't know. So you could know about the Apple Watch with the white band. I don't know that you'd be able to say where it was the day she was taken. And the other piece of it is Howard Bloom reporting specifically he's adding this. He says to the first note actually also correctly described what Guthrie had been wearing on the night she was abducted. Again, how accurate, how closely did they describe it?

You know, you could, I know what my mom sleeps in every night. And you could, if you hit the category, I'd probably believe you. But if this person actually said, you know, it was like, leopard pajamas and that's what it was, you'd believe him. Like, the FBI knows how close this guy came to the mark. And again, Harvey, who's been in constant contact with the FBI, is reporting that the FBI believes the first two are authentic. Savannah's constant contact with the FBI believes the first two notes are authentic,

like belonging from the kidnapper. And my information was that the second note, the ransom, sorry, the apology note, whatever we're calling at these, she's now died note, that the reason they believed it was from the first guy was that it also had a reference to the same Bitcoin account as was in the first. But that is somewhat contradicted by reports out now that there wasn't a renewed demand for payment. So why would they, which I believe, like everybody's saying there was no new renewed demand for payment in the second note. So why would he have even made reference to the Bitcoin? Maybe they're just, maybe the first report was wrong that there's, that,

there wasn't a second reference to the Bitcoin account, and it was simply the IP address, such as it was, obviously masked and so on, was traced back to the same location, obviously masked or not that it matched the first note to the second. Here's, okay, so that's all that, but here is what I want to ask you guys about. The Harvey friend contact, friend of the kidnapper, who keeps, you know, texting in to Harvey or emailing. He is emailing fits. My conclusion is, my amateur sleuthing, this person is definitely not the same person as the person who wrote the first two notes. Because now we figured out the timeline.

The first two notes demanding payment for $4 or $6 million and then the, oh, I'm sorry, she died. Those happened the first week Nancy had disappeared. She was taken on a Saturday into a Sunday. The first note came, we believe, on Tuesday, basically, saying pay us by Monday or else. and the Thursday deadline for the 4 million passed, and then they received the second note saying she died before it was time to pay number, you know, the 6 million. The whole point is the first week they allegedly had Nancy taken.

They received one note saying 4 million or 6 million. They received the second note saying, not never mind, but she's died. Whoops, she's died. That's what led to Savannah or siblings coming out and saying on video. So we understand we really want to celebrate with our mother. This is important to us. We will pay. And the belief now is that this is them not explicitly acknowledging she's dead as they've

been told because they don't want all of us to go away and stop looking for Nancy. Because they don't know if this is real. Right. So like she might be dead. This might be the actual kidnapper. But if it's not or if she's not, they don't want all of us to. take our foot off the pedal and go away and stop covering this. So the family wants to telegraph to the kidnapper, if it's real, we'll give you money for her corpse. Please stay in touch with us.

Tell us how to do that. And while keeping us all on the line. But the friend of Harvey doesn't appear until second week. Second week. And his first message says time is of the essence. I've seen them and suggest it may be in Mexico. Then a day or or two later sends another note saying, time is no longer of the essence, telegraphing like, she's died now, like between his first note and his second note.

But the other person, a week earlier, pulled the same routine, give us the $4 to $6 million or else, and then a couple days later, she died. So this is not the same person. I mean, maybe it's the same fraud

being perpetrated from different angles, but that's what's happened. So initially I thought maybe friend of Harvey, was dovetailing at the same time as the first two-letter guy. And initially they were like, right, you know, pay, pay, pay. Time is of the essence. They both were kind of saying that. And then they initially were both like, and never mind.

But that's not true. It was a week later. And it's part of the reason why I think friend of Harvey is completely bullshit. I have an open mind on the first guy. Friend of Harvey seems like a complete fraudster. And last but not least, let me play what Harvey Levin said just a couple of hours ago, as he revealed, friend of Harvey or friend of kidnapper, has

been in touch yet again. And this is what he said. Stop 49. Only two are directly involved. He says that he has video. He has video of Nancy Guthrie

with the main kidnapper. He says while it contains what it contains is my definition of delivering it on a silver platter, a short video of the main guy with Nancy the day that was probably her last. He also says that he has names, addresses, phone numbers of the kidnappers. Now, he says he has that video in a phone and the phone is turned off.

it is in a secure secret location, but a location easy to find if you know where to look. And that's what he says. He doesn't say a safe deposit box, but he says easy to find if you know where to look. And he says that if he gets a Bitcoin, he will deliver, as he puts it on a silver platter, exactly how to get access to this phone, including the past. word. John Kelly, thoughts on that. This guy's looking for his

15 minutes of fame and of Bitcoin. That's about what this amounts to to me. I mean, this is just silliness. I mean, you don't believe that guy at all. I don't believe it. I don't believe it for one minute. He's getting off that it keeps getting reported

and he's on TV and he's hearing about himself and he's getting off to that and he's trying to a Bitcoin in the meantime. This guy, you know, I, I, look, I can be wrong, right? There's no question about it. But I wouldn't give this guy 10 cents, let alone a Bitcoin, yeah. Yeah. And you heard Harvey later come out, Fitz, and say, if you're real, go to wherever the phone is, get a screen grab of something proving you're not a liar. If you've got something, send it. You've been sending us more than a dozen emails.

Send us something to show you're not a fraudster. That's not going to happen. And by the way, Fitz, do you remember when this guy sent his first or second note to Sheriff Harvey, he said, you won't be hearing from me again. Okay. It's been like 10 notes later, Harvey's begging him to send something proving he's not a fraudster. And I think we all know where that's going to lead. Yeah, fake, phony, and fraudster. the three Fs there,

literatively speaking. Yeah, you know, we're going back and forth with us, Megan, I probably use the next three words. I'm about to say, you know, a half dozen times with you in February. I'm going to modify it slightly. Back then, all that they were asking for was proof of life, three words.

Now, it's very likely Nancy is deceased. Now give us proof of death. Why all this game playing, this showmanship, these machinations going back and forth and people guessing and folks like us discussing this on the air, which is fine because we have limited information. And of course, I'm going to say, again, the investigators would be remiss if they didn't follow through in this.

But I hope they're telling Savannah to please, you know, don't get overly, what's the right word, but don't get overly confident that this is something that's going to come the past. Because we wanted proof of life and we never really had that, a bit, I mean, a Fitbit or the Apple Watch, whatever it was on the floor and describes it, okay. And Megan, by the way, the picture you showed of Savannah with her mother with the watch, I assume that was public before the abduction, correct? We think so.

I actually asked my team where we got it, and they said it's been circulating online, but by all people who are watching this case. So, but it would have to be, right, because Nancy's been missing. But I mean, whether it was public. It's on the Today Show said. Whether it was public or not on Facebook or whatever is what I'm suggesting here. so that if the person would know how to describe the watch. If this was a private collection that Savannah never put out there,

all right, that tells us a little something more. If it's out there. And Megan, I was on with you, I think, live one day, and your team found a walkthrough of Nancy's bedroom. And there was a video that, you know, years before, and probably the older woman hasn't changed her bedroom that much. It's the same house, same bedroom. And I think you even commented, you know, your mother,

Remember my mother, you know, you just don't change much when you get, you know, past 50 or 60 in your bedroom unless you actually move. So it wouldn't be hard to watch that somewhere and then in fact come up with this, you know, this, this inside singular knowledge that only the real kidnapper knows. And again, I'm saying this was an abduction, not a kidnapping for whatever reason. But Jim, you don't find it, you don't find a persuasive, like, if the cops got there and that Apple Watch was on the floor, That's good. That would convince me this was actually from the real kidnapper. I'd have to, yeah, and I would agree with you, Megan, on that particular note. But it also doesn't mean these are the kidnappers, and I'm not sure the guy who abducted her would have put some letter out like this, making it look like a kidnapping as opposed to an abduction.

And really quick, the other point I wanted to make here, there have been for-profit criminal kidnappings over the years. I hate to go back 94 years, Lindbergh. The baby died within 10 minutes of being brought down the ladder in Hopewell, New Jersey, and Hopman buried the body there. But the kidnapping, I'm sorry, the ransom request went on for two years. Cindy Riso was shot in the arm in 1990, he's the Exxon executive in northern New Jersey, and he died a day or two later, but the husband and wife kidnapping team kept up all the negotiations for the next six, the eight weeks or so. So why did the person, so if she did die, why did they give up on the kidnapping? There had to be a lot of planning with this, whether from overseas, you know, locally, whatever, whether the kidnap, you know,

mastermind was somewhere else and this was local talent that he hired to go in with the mask and the Doc Holiday holster in front of him and carry through it there. But why just give up when the kidnapping? If you had that proof of life, send something. Send the pajamas or at least cut a piece off that the mother was allegedly wearing and say, we have her, here's the pajamas she was wearing, she's okay, give us the money. They would have paid that money in a heartbeat, knowing that kind of proof. But everything is so nebulous, so amorphous that I don't blame them. I'm glad they didn't pay the big bucks to these people with such little information to provide. Again, successful abduction. You can criticize the interactions there on the porch, but a half-ass kidnapping,

and I would just further surmise, it never was meant to be a pre-exed. for-profit kidnapping by by legal definition. John, our pal Howard Bloom, who's reporting in Air Mail, restarted this case this week because he was the one who first revealed some of the contents of the second note. He is reporting that there's a case of regret happening right now amongst law enforcement because they are starting to think they should have just paid the $4 million and then followed the money.

And that would have gotten them to say. somebody, which would have given them some answers. And again, the reporting is that the FBI thinks that $4 million demand came from the actual kidnapper. Here is Howard on, I don't know where he was this week, but he was on Inside Edition. And he was talking about this theory in terms that John Wayne fans may find familiar. Sot 56. The $4 million ransom was never paid. An investigative reporter and best-selling author Howard Bloom says detectives he spoke to are regretting that decision today. Not to have done that originally when the window of opportunity was there was perhaps a very big, even a fatal mistake. He says Tucson police considered using what they called the Big Jake theory,

a tactic inspired by the 1971 John Wayne Western Big Jake. In the movie, John Wayne's grandson is kidnapped and he chases the bad guys. He has a plan. He's going to pay the money, but also get the money back and his grandson back. And the cops refer to that because that's what they feel should have been done in this case. They should have paid the ransom, hope to get Nancy back, and then worry about getting the money back. Bloom believes the kidnappers got the idea to kidnap Nancy after Savannah returned home to shoot a special for the Today Show last November. The best thing about Tucson is coming home. Yes.

I believe someone in Tucson saw this. And they saw, look at these people. They have so much. Their life is so blessed. And in their greed, they came up with this scheme to take Savannah's mother. So what do you make of that, John, the thought they should have just paid the form of mail. Yeah. Now, if you listen to what he said there, he said to Tucson police.

He didn't say the FBI. You follow me? I would not. I would not. If the FBI didn't go along with that wholeheartedly, I would not. I would not go along with it. I would, Pan to Tucson police track that?

I don't know. Do I believe the FBI could track that, Bitcoin transaction? Absolutely. You know, one other question, two questions I have that I think are important. The one question is, her cane, did anybody say

that her cane was out of the house, that the cane was missing from the house? I have not heard that the cane was either left behind or taken. I don't know anything about it. Okay. Because that's important for some guy that's apologizing, right? For, uh, you know, or, or, or seemingly putting together some kind of empathy, you know,

uh, for the woman. And then the other thing, again, I go back to what you brought up, Megan, about the news and the watch and everything, uh, you know, being found on the floor, uh, on the news. I mean, these guys watch everything. I'm telling you, this guy who's out there's watching this, and this brings me back to what Jim said early on in this interview, in this show. Okay, Jim, you talked about him being scared. Whoever this guy is, right now, he's scared.

Talk about that. Well, especially, Fitz, because did you hear what Maureen said on this show on Wednesday? I heard a few things. I know she put a 75 percentile. Mark out there. I'll play it just for the audience that didn't hear her. But we love Maureen, and she's former FBI, too, and she said the following

two days ago. The person we're talking to could say, wow, they're probably closer than we think they are. Could you just expand on why you think they're wrapping, like they're getting there, that they're close to making an arrest? I think they're getting close to the porch

guy. And when they get the porch guy, the floodgates shall swing open. What's your level of confidence on that? 75%. That's big news. I know.

She's not Lucy Goosey. Maureen's careful. She's considered. She's bright. And she's got connections. So that was very interesting. And it did make a lot of news. It went everywhere.

So your thoughts. Yeah. And I trust Maureen implicitly. And if she has sources that I don't have right inside the investigation, good for her. And of course, if that person was identified, that would open the floodgates or whatever she said there. I agree 100%. So, I mean, he is the kidnapper.

Whether there was someone else or abductor, let me go back to that word. And whether there's someone else helping in the car, whatever, we don't know that. But there's going to be an alpha male who was in charge of this. If there's a second, if there is a helper, a second person, it's going to be the alpha male. That's what my profile went out, you know, at the end of February, early March, when this thing just hadn't been solved. And he's the one that, of course, the investigators have to focus on. And I think everything else here is jets them and floats them, and it doesn't have anything to do with the case itself.

And again, you talk a little bit, Megan, early on, about the regret. The task force members may feel, and I've been on task force, Unabom task force, and the D.C. sniper task force. And when the next victim occurred, when the next victim was killed, you felt like shit. And you felt awful. What could we have done different? why didn't we get make the arrest beforehand?

I remember before I even showed up at the Unobomb Task Force, they did an interview or something in Playboy magazine, I think, and a very legitimate interview. They, like we would have, you know, good journalism back then. And then there's two killings right afterwards, and they felt so bad to bombing victims by the Unabomber. And they felt somehow their article, their interview, things they said about them could have contributed to him.

But then we finally got in the cabin, got all his written communications, and these murders and these particular people were planned well before that came out. So as John said, this person has no remorse, no compassion for anyone. He's a narcissist to some degree. And this is all about him at this point. And if Maureen's right, we talked about pre-offense behavior and post-offense behavior. Whoever out there knows this guy, maybe he heard what Maureen said, you may see some changes in his behavior. Putting the car in the garage, driving Uber back and forth to work.

growing a beard, shaving it off, whatever it takes. If you see someone with behavior that's changed, certainly back in January and then again in February, you know, remember that. But certainly in the last week or so, if he thinks people are getting closer. The best thing, and I'll just say this one more time, the best thing happening for the actual abductor

is these bizarre notes coming in. They're saying, thank goodness, you know, defray the investigation, let them focus on that. and not worry so much about me because i never even thought of doing it for that reason but hey if they want to think that good for them this guy did it for a very personal reason and as i put out there i challenge this person if he's listening to my podcast and certainly yours uh he may just be a guy that likes to have sex with old ladies and i know it's graphic i hate to say it and there's a name for that john you know what that condition is it's in the dsm and if he wants to tell us otherwise

no i'm not one of those perverts put something out there and tell us why you did this And you don't have to give your name away, you don't have to give your address or your age, which apparently somebody has on their phone. But just, you know, tell us why you did this. So you're not so. That's why the Unabomber eventually started writing to the New York Times. He didn't want people to think he was some random nut job, you know, sending off bombs to, you know, random people. He had specific purposes in doing so. And I'm trying to encourage this guy, you know, if you don't want to be seen as some kind of pervert who likes old women, you may want to, you may just just tell the person.

public why you did this and without even giving anything away and at least your legacy will go down that you're not this creepy guy that many of us who know this stuff think you may just be very women you know by the way it's megan at megan kelly dot com if you're trying to get in touch go ahead john yeah and jim there's two other women similar looks older women that are missing uh in in uh Arizona. It's kind of creepy. If you want to take a look at it, and I don't think either one has been found. They lived alone. Very, M-O-V-R-V-S-M-O-V-S-M-O-V-E-N-E-N-E-O-D-E-A-E-A-A-E-A-A-A-E-A-A-A-E-A-A-A-E-A-A-E-A-A-E-A-A-A-E-A-A-E-A-A-A-E-A-A-A-A-A-E-A-A-E-A-A-A- if you want to take a look or if you'd like me to send some pictures over to you. Because the first thing, you know, we started looking at, you know, and, you know, if somebody's missing, somebody's been grabbed,

and if it's not a kidnapping, if it's something else, if it is something sexual or whatever, do we have any other victims? Let's look around and see if we have anybody else. You are the serial killer catcher. Yeah, so if you check these two women, If you want me to send their pictures over, and Meg, I'll send them over to him. I think you'll find it very interesting.

We would like to check that out. My team is now alerting me that in that segment that NBC aired in November, this past November, November 5th, 2025, which would have been December, January, three months before the kidnapping, Nancy had the white watch, or the Apple Watch with the white strap on it on there, too. So there was that picture of Savannah and her back in 2023.

And now here, this is just three months before she was taken. There it is. You can see it very clearly. Apple Watch white band. But again, doesn't necessarily explain if they were able to say it was on the floor of her bedroom. But that watch was definitely out there for the viewing. The case remains a mystery. It remains unsolved.

Not for lack of trying by our part. On our part, I don't know. I'm sure that law enforcement still is working furiously, but Harvey's reporting no new leads. He's disputing that they're close to finding porch guy based on his sources. But he also says he hasn't spoken to the FBI in months. He says they won't call him back anymore. So I'm not sure how up-to-date his information is. I trust Maureen implicitly as you do, Jim. She hasn't stirred us wrong yet. Guys, thank you both so much for being here and further updates to follow. You're welcome, Megan.

Thank you so much, Megan. Have a wonderful weekend. Thank you. Oh, thank you. Thank you. You too. All right. And thanks to all of you for tuning in.

Go ahead, as I mentioned, today's Friday. So we post our American News Minute. If you go to Megan Kelly.com, you can sign up for it. I'm sorry to tell you, but my Strudwick updates have been out of control lately. He's the sweetest boy. He honestly, I love this dog so much. He's just so sweet and so loving and lovable. but he's so naughty and we've had trips to the vet.

We've had very expensive bills. We've had a lot of stuff ruined like recently. And he's five. Why? Why? We also do the news in the American News Minute. It's not just the Stredwick Newsletter. Anyway, go and sign up if you need a laugh at my expense. And in the meantime, have a wonderful weekend.

Lots of love to you. We're back on Monday with Stu Bergier. See you then. Thanks for listening. to the Megan Kelly show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.