The Megyn Kelly Show - Left Blames "Racism" For Claudine Gay's Harvard Exit, and New Appreciation For Trump's Border Policy, with The Fifth Column Hosts | Ep. 694

Episode Date: January 3, 2024

Megyn Kelly is joined by Kmele Foster, Michael Moynihan, and Matt Welch, hosts of The Fifth Column podcast, to discuss the resignation of Claudine Gay, her history of blatant plagiarism, some on the left and in the media claiming Gay was targeted because of "racism," the rot of higher education institutions, those who have been exposed as plagiarists in recent years, how elite institutions are failing our kids, Ivy League schools exposed as factories for elites, the massive influx of illegal migrants into America, why there's a new appreciation for the Trump administration's border policy, the importance of limiting executive branch power, the state of the GOP race, Trump's plan to secure the nomination, whether Vivek Ramaswamy is running for president or to be VP, the controversy over the Conservative Dad’s “Real Women of America” calendar, pushback from "feminists" as well as more traditional conservatives, a woman in love with a tree, Megyn's habit of letting her gas tank go down to empty, how it stresses out her husband Doug, and more.More from The Fifth Column: https://wethefifth.substack.com/Foster's new series: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8GoBFy1DgQ Follow The Megyn Kelly Show on all social platforms: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/MegynKellyTwitter: http://Twitter.com/MegynKellyShowInstagram: http://Instagram.com/MegynKellyShowFacebook: http://Facebook.com/MegynKellyShow Find out more information at: https://www.devilmaycaremedia.com/megynkellyshow

Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at noon east. Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show. Well, Harvard President Claudine Gay made it longer than some predicted after various instances of plagiarism surfaced. I lost count of how many it was like dozens by the time we were said and done. But yesterday afternoon, she submitted her resignation as we reported when it happened live during our show. Now, many on the left, the woke left, are blaming her exit on racism. Of course they are. You got to dance with the one that brung you. Plus the crisis at the southern border continues. My God, it's terrible. As GOP leaders are set to visit the border today

and Secretary Mayorkas, for whom there is a strong case, I mean, that he ought to be impeached. He blames the increase in migrants on climate change. So fear not, he's on it. We're going to discuss it all with our pals today from the fifth column, Camille Foster, Michael Moynihan, and Matt Welsh. You can find all of their content on Substack at wethefifth.substack.com. Well worth your time. Guys, welcome back to the show. Hey, Megan.

I have so much I want to talk to you about. So excited to have you guys here today. You're just the perfect guests. So the backlash to Claudine Gay's forced resignation is actually magnificent. Is it not? Like it's it's everyone knew their role to play and they're playing it to perfection. It genuinely amuses me. For example, there's Ibram X. Kendi. OK, first of all, he goes on with the question to assess whether this was a racist attack against her. Isn't whether Dr. Gay engaged in any misconduct. The question is whether all these people would have investigated, surveilled, harassed,

written about and attacked her in the same way if the Harvard president in this case would have been white. I, period, think, period, not, period. It could never happen. Too often means, too often means rape reporters join the racist mob or give it credibility as they did here, just as they did a century ago.

That's and he went on. I mean, he's got several tweets along these lines. Celestine, you know, she wrote little files everywhere. Hers was one of my favorites. What we've learned here is bad faith bigots pretending they're concerned about anti-Semitism will happily use women of color, especially black women, as a scapegoat and lightning rod for large systemic issues and that people invested in maintaining those systemic issues will comply. And I'll just give you one more. Nicole Hannah-Jones, of course, the 1619 Project writer. Academic freedom is under attack. Racial justice programs are under attack. Black women will be made to pay our so-called allies too often lack any real courage. So, guys, it is the fault of systemic racism and its allies in the media who too often go along with the narrative, and not to mention bad actors

like chris rufo who's getting blamed for all the reporting he did on this um you know right-wing conservatives who seized an opportunity etc etc what do you make of it who wants to go you're a resident plagiarism expert, and this is a plagiarism scandal. So you're the guy. You unearthed plagiarism. I have many, many plagiarism scandals, and I want to correct Camille on this.

I am now also an anti-racism expert. Yes. Because I have discovered how one defeats these racists. It's to not plagiarize 60 times and then none of this ever happens you can't bull connor your way into a plagiarism um allegation no it's funny before we started uh camille uh very helpfully reminded me that she makes 900 000 a year i mean i mean look the incredible thing about this is that there was a clip this morning that she sent your producer, the great Steve Krakow, from another game.

What's your name? Mara Gay from The New York Times, who went on in an incoherent ramble. Another day. Sorry, that was I'm very pro gay generally, but in this case, I'm not. But she went on as an incoherent ramble, and none of it addressed the actual allegations. It's all the people are terrible. All the people are doing terrible things. They hate black people. They hate black women in particular. Multiculturalism is also the enemy. Well, no, I mean, the very basic thing here is not only did she plagiarize, and by the way, this is very, very clear plagiarism. I'm somebody who's written a lot about this. I actually am very tough on some of these plagiarism allegations and say, well, I don't think that meets the standards. This met the standards 10

times over and it kept on going so bad, in fact, that she plagiarized in her acknowledgements, which I thought was really remarkable. That's really showing a certain level of laziness. But also, it shows the kind of rot in these institutions. This is the most prestigious university on earth. Can we say that it's, what, maybe Oxford, maybe Cambridge? No, I'd say Harvard's number one. That is the stand-in when you're talking about academic excellence. And you have the president of this place, who's not only a plagiarist, but has produced almost nothing in her academic career. And this is also not somebody, and this, by the way,

I'm going to make a slight recommendation before I kick this over to Camille to give the not black perspective. By the way, he doesn't identify as black for your listeners who don't know that. That's right. But the incredible thing about this is Claudine Gay went to Phillips Exeter, one of the most elite schools on the East Coast. She then went to Princeton, decided she didn't like Princeton very much, and then went to Stanford and then went on to Harvard.

I would suggest maybe getting somebody from a more of a working class background who actually does have a record. It has worked very hard in their life and not produced 16 or 15 or 12 or however many sort of lazy and halfway fraudulent academic articles and never produced a book. But, you know, I saw Mark Lamont Hill, the writer, professor who just... Hip hop intellectual. Hip hop intellectual. That's how he described himself in his bio for many years. writer, professor, who just hip-hop intellectual. That's how he did it.

Yes, which makes a certain amount of sense. He said, you know, we must replace her with another black woman. I mean, this is kind of the problem, isn't it? That's it. It wasn't who. It could be anybody. I mean, obviously, it wasn't Candace Owens. Well, he didn't say that type of person.

How about Candace Owens. She's not thinking that. Well, he didn't say that type of person. How about Candace? Maybe. She's smart. She's young. She has a long runway ahead of her. Yeah. Probably a more significant publishing record too.

Shape and shade of her genitalia check out. So she'll be fine now. That's all you need. That's all you need. When you're selecting the vice president of the United States as well, you just declare initially it's going to be a black woman for sure. Yeah, no problem. Or Supreme Court justice. You really set these women up for success when you do that, too.

Everybody, when they come, thinks first about their mind and not at all about those other things. How could anyone doubt their credentials once you've once you've laid that groundwork for them? You know, I may disappoint Moynihan here. I mean, the perspective I'd really like to bring to bear is actually the perspective I can offer as a board member of the wonderful organization FIRE, the Foundation for Intimate For... You got it. You can do it. You got it.

You can do it. We know what it is. Free speech. So initially it was education and now it's expression. Yes. We've been defending free speech and have been defending, and I'm using the we very generously there because I'm on the board. I don't do any of the heavy lifting, but just defending academic freedom on campus for years and years. And it is amazing to see people on MSNBC now very animated about the attack on academic freedom in the specific context of an overpaid administrator who has a documented history of engaging in plagiarism. Now this is an attack on free expression. I want to commend to them the FIRE's rankings,

which have for years now documented the rot in higher education and the genuine attack on free expression. Nicole Hannah-Jones ought to be well aware of this. FIRE came to her defense when she found herself in the midst of a firestorm where people were insisting that she shouldn't get a job because of her particular political background, and in some cases criticizing some of her work on the 1619 Project. But in either case, fire came to their defense because they're nonpartisan and they believe in genuine diversity in higher education, and they believe in free expression in higher education. This isn't an example of that by any stretch of the imagination. And it doesn't matter who is particularly excited about the fact that Miss Gay is being

purged from the university or resigning because of the controversy surrounding her. The controversy would not exist but for the documented history of plagiarism, which has existed for some times. Records and rumors about this have existed for some time. Harvard has investigated it. And the only conclusion you can reach at the end of this is to let her go. If you actually want to be taken seriously when you're censoring students, expelling students regularly for engaging in the same kind of conduct that that Miss Gay is now being slammed for. It's not a white supremacist cabal. There's no secret conspiracy here. I would even say that, you know, the activists who are most thumping their chest, hoping to be given

credit for this, they don't matter here. What matters is that she's a plagiarist. And as a result, she's getting bounced. The question, of course, is who replaces her? Who replaces? That's the thing. Oh, this poor guy that we know who's replacing her temporarily. This poor, poor man. Can you imagine being this man? Hold on. Where is he? What's his name? I've got to hear someplace in front of me.

But Alan Garber and the poor guy is white. Can you imagine what's going to happen? That's why he's temporary. His genitals don't actually measure up for the position here. It's the wrong shape. Don't get too comfortable, Alan. It's definitely not happening. You're on the way out, sir.

Alan also condemned the university's first shot at, you know, commenting on the anti-Semitism on campus. He was like, oh, he didn't get there. Alan is not long for this job, even the temporary job. So he should not be too comfortable in that seat. Here's the AP. You guys probably saw this today. Their take on this, the Associated Press. Harvard president's resignation highlights new conservative weapon against colleges, plagiarism.

What? We may be missing the real story. Conservatives pants. I'm thinking Matt Welsh, like over at Reason, this is not, this would not have been your headline. Scroll down in that piece too. They also say that Chris Ruffo using the word scalp is a classic white supremacist play. White colonialism. Couldn't make less sense if you put it in a blender and poured it out of a fourth story walk-up window. Um, even I actually went back just for kicks, Matt, just to, just to see,

you know, Wikipedia, um, how does Wikipedia describe, describe scalping? Right. And of course the whole thing is about the native Americans. The whole thing is about the native Americans, what they did. It's not about the white colonialists who came over. But the AP apparently didn't even simply consult Wikipedia. They just decided to blame that too on the evil white man. I want to highlight a word that you used at the intro, Megan, which is performs. You were talking about various people were like performing their roles. There is something so performative about a lot of the response to this. It feels rote. It feels trite. It feels not necessarily even that much believed by the

people doing it. But part of what they are doing is trying to browbeat the media, right? There's like, oh, look, your allies in the media are performing well. You fell for the Chris Ruffo tricksterism. I can't believe you let them frame the issue here. All of those great words are tells that they're trying to tell their kind of fellow traveler colleagues in elite institutions to act and behave in a certain way. And that is why you get conservatives pounce headlines. There was a recent every decade study that came out, I think Syracuse University does it, of the self-identified political leanings and affiliations of journalists at newspapers and other institutions like that. And it was pretty stunning. In the 1970s, 80s, 90s, there was more or less two self-identified Democrats for every one self-identified Republican.

It would go up and down, but it'd be in that range more or less. And then between 10 years ago and now, it has gone to 11 to one Democrats to Republicans. The reason why you get a conservatives pounce headline in a way that you would never get. You will not once see a Democrats or lefties pounce on pro public is reporting about Clarence Thomas. You will not see that. Yet they pounce. Yet pounce they do. It is that because the conservatives or people right of center are so outnumbered on campus and now so outnumbered in the media that they stick out like sore thumbs, right? It's like being a Jew or a Muslim in France, a Catholic country, even though, you know, it's supposed to nominally not be Catholic, but you stick out the people, you look different,

you sound different, you wear different regalia. And so people are going to notice you. And that is going to be the story. And it happens over and over again. And then on these occasions, these rare occasions, when the people are in the crosshairs and they lose their jobs under criticism from people on the right, it is a scandal and they can't even wrap their minds around it as if they've forgotten the entire summer of 2020 when every single institution under the sun lost its ever-loving mind trying to purge Poetry Magazine of people who are insufficiently anti-racist. Museums in San Francisco because they had a meeting and they said this word this way instead of that word that way. It was an absolute season of madness. And it wasn't conservatives pouncing. It was a left of center people absolutely in a purity spiral and purged trial situation. So this is why they do

that over and over again. And they're trying to tell their friends in the media who they just assume not inaccurately necessarily that they're on their team. Like, don't do this next time. Next time Chris Ruffo wants something, make sure to be in the opposite position, even if the facts are on his side. That's what the Kendi tweet was going after. The Kendi tweet was going after that I read where he's like, this shouldn't happen. And this is like real journalists shouldn't pile on.

And contrast that with what he was saying yesterday, racist mobs won't stop until they topple all black people from positions of power. Sure. We don't need evidence for that. Just say it. But I mean, the thing about the Kendi stuff is that it does make people think twice. I mean, what is Kendi offering as evidence that this is a racist mob? Absolutely nothing. It doesn't need to offer anything. It's putting the fear of God into people about reporting something like this or going after a person like this. If you do that, we're going to say something and we're going to accuse you of the most toxic charge in public life. And we don't have to have any evidence for

it. I mean, the thing about that is the more that this happens and you see this from 2020 to today, the more it happens, the more people become skeptical of this stuff. The average person who comes across this and says, well, you know, she plagiarized. I mean, that seems to be true. And then there's 85000 tweets and a bunch of people on MSNBC on Morning Joe saying, well, this reeks of racism. OK, well, then why don't we sort of prove that? I would say that the opposite is true, because you need people like Chris Ruffo. And I disagree with Chris Ruffo on a lot of things, but I mean, he's right on this. You need somebody like Chris Ruffo because the media and Harvard in general don't do their jobs. Keep something in mind. This is very important to remember.

The allegations against Claudine Gay were first surfaced online in 2022, December of 2022, right after she was appointed. This was obvious to a lot of people. This was on an academic forum where people are anonymous. And they had sent these things to Harvard. Harvard knew about this. In October, the New York Post, which didn't write a story about this, asked Harvard about it. And what did they do? They dragged their feet and they said, well, you know, all of these things, which, of course, would get you kicked out as a student. They threatened the Post. They threatened to sue the Post for defamation if they published a story that was transparently true.

If a student does this, of course, they get kicked out. That's known. And keeping in mind also that Claudia was not fired. fired right she resigned now did they push her it doesn't matter if they pushed her what they should do is publicly fire her to disassociate themselves she should be humiliated to disassociate herself for themselves from academic fraud and this is academic fraud the problem with harvard is that is that they're like an aging model, right? They were once beautiful. And now you can't really trade on that anymore.

But everyone's like, Harvard, Harvard. It's a reputation. Is it a university? Do they have great professors? I don't know. They're like a year away from the Daily Mail taking the obese pictures of them in a Candid on the street. And then they say that they look beautiful.

By the way, the Daily Mail is like, look at how rabid they look. But it's always like sarcastic. Yeah, they don't mean it. They always are. I think it's sarcastic. And you're all like, oh, come on. We know what you're doing here. They're not looking gorgeous. They're looking well fed. You're so right. Which is a kind of beauty. So can I ask you, let me ask you about this, because the fact that she keeps her nearly million dollar salary, notwithstanding the number of instances is what she'd be. She's been exposed as an intellectual thief, is stunning to me. And she also committed the same sin as Liz McGill, who got fired from UPenn for just that, for just not being able to say that, well, yes, free speech, here are the legal standards.

But yeah, you really shouldn't be calling for genocide against Jews on campus. That's not a thing we want to see on Harvard. Anyway, the other woman, the white woman got fired just for that congressional testimony. Claudine Gay did that. Plus got exposed as an intellectual thief and is not fired. She lost the presidency, but she's still at Harvard. And listen to this. OK, so the the goodbye letter to Claudine from the Harvard Corporation, this group that's really kind of making the decisions behind the scene, the scenes they've got people like, I think Ted Wells is on there, very respected attorney from Paul Weiss, people like that, muckety mucks who probably went

to Harvard and are supposed to be standard bearers. Okay, I just highlighted a few phrases. With great sadness, we write in light of her message announcing her intention to step down and resume her faculty position. Throughout Gay's long and distinguished leadership as Dean of Social Science and this other dean, she demonstrated the insight, the decisiveness, and the empathy that are her hallmark. She has devoted her career to an institution whose ideals and priorities she has worked tirelessly to advance. And we are grateful for the extraordinary contribution she has made and will continue to make as a leader, a teacher, a scholar, a mentor, and an inspiration to many. I'm not done.

Her own message conveying her intention to step down eloquently underscores, by the way, that's racist. I've heard all the liberals tell me you refer to a black person as eloquent or articulate. You're racist. You people are racists. Okay. Our own message conveying our intention to step down eloquently underscores what those who have worked with her have long known. Her commitment to the institution and its mission is deep and selfless. We've accepted her resignation, but we do so with sorrow. She has shown remarkable resilience in the face of deeply personal and sustained attacks.

OK, what are the attacks that she plagiarized? She did. So I'm looking for the evidence. And here it is. Some has played out in the public domain, but much has taken the form of repugnant and in some cases racist vitriol directed at her through disgraceful emails and phone calls. it. Right. Like it's ridiculous. And they end with for today, we close by reiterating our gratitude to President Gay for her devoted service to Harvard. Amazing. I know it's basically like, please don't call us racists. Don't sue us. Please love us black people. We love black people. We love Claudine and we're not racists. See all the nice things we said about her, except for the racist part about being eloquent.

I mean, it's really bizarre to see this sort of thing play out. I mean, it's hard to believe that there aren't more skeletons there, that there isn't going to be more evidence of some sort of general academic misconduct or malfeasance. Granted, her tenure was pretty short. And she only published 15 articles, Camille. But it's not a lot to look at. I just I can't imagine like going out on a limb for someone who was being forced to leave a position under these circumstances. It's not as though the only people calling her out here are conservative activists. There are plenty of people who are disheartened by this, who were completely incensed by the horrible performance that she had in front of Congress. And it's not to say that there wasn't a whole bunch of performing going on in those congressional

hearings, as there always is. But you're really well compensated. You know what you're going into. You ought to have better answers prepared than that. She performed abysmally. And as you correctly pointed out, plenty of people or not plenty of people, but one other person was fired precisely for that. That ought to be that's grounds for termination. Apparently, that plus all of this plagiarism. I mean, I just can't I cannot fathom them doing this for many people. It's no joke. I mean, if I had a nickel for every white man who said like, I'm sure I'd get the same treatment, the same bending over backwards, not to fire me as Claudine Gay's been getting nevermind the beautiful. We're so sad and sorry letter from the board, never mind the million dollar almost salary that will continue to go into her coffers. No white guy would have been given these accommodations and not even a

white woman. Look what happened to Liz Medill. Bye. Don't let the door hit you. And she didn't have any plagiarism. She only had the comments before Congress. The amazing thing, by the way, is that as you pointed out, Megan, there's somebody who's collected these online, and it's absolutely baffling and dizzying to look at the number of people who have accused those who have exposed Claudine Gay. And by the way, most people just passing on messages that were out there for a very long time. And as I think I mentioned on the show before, I mean, somebody sent me those allegations before they came out. I mean, I knew about them before they came out and, you know, was starting to look into them and was beaten on that because other people are faster than me. But when everyone is out there

saying this must be racist, it's absolutely a racist plot. And the amazing thing is what precipitated all of this is Claudine Gay in front of Congress saying that calling for the extermination of Jews is not a violation of policy. I love the fact that that might not be problematic, but this is racist. But what she said, she was like, wow. But back to Camille's point that she, even in her takedown resignation, is going back to her deep commitment to academic freedom and free speech. And she also said it was racism, too. It's selective. Yeah.

It's a lie. That's the other thing we didn't even talk about. She played the racism card, which we read yesterday in her resignation, saying she'd been the victim of racism. But I mean, all of it's a lie. She wasn't the victim of racism. Harvard doesn't stand for free speech or academic freedom and hasn't in years. Go ahead, Matt Welsh.

Camille's colleagues over at FIRE about 10 days ago published a really interesting Twitter thread, and I'm sure it's a full document on their website, saying, okay, let's make something out of this controversy constructed. Here is what Harvard and other universities can do to recommit themselves to free speech and free inquiry and a truly kind of diverse level of thought and understanding. Many things to commend about that. And you won't see a shred of that in that long and anguished letter, which that's why it took her so long to resign, is that they had to write that letter so long with so many adjectives to get there.

And she can't write on her own, So it's nothing to copy from. What are you going to do? It is baffling, not baffling. It is sadly unsurprising that the same people who are saying, oh, it's all about academic freedom, have not been there on any kind of front lines when it comes to opening up academia for free speech. And that means also understanding something that seems to get lost, not just on campuses, but in the streets of New York, for damn sakes, is that there's a difference between having a conversation, having a civil discourse, et cetera, and engaging in vandalism and illegal conduct and violent confrontation.

This bedeviled the university professors when they were in front of Congress. It continues to absolutely flummox college administrators everywhere. And it seems to confuse a lot of people who are trying to get to the airport in New York City without being encumbered by 400 snotty-nosed, bedraggled nothing-burgers. Terrorists. They were terrorists. You shut down JFK for your stupid-ass political

point. You're a terrorist. I mean, at this point... To Gitmo with you. If it's that easy to close the Brooklyn Bridge, maybe I'll do it to protest Bobby Grinch not being in the Hall of Fame. That's a very good protest. We don't need to go to Gitmo, Moynihan.

What we need to do is put them in a room and expose them to like 48 hours of Baby Shark. Just over, put it on a loop. But I would just say that you're right about that. But I would do that in Gitmo. One thing that we haven't mentioned, by the way, when we're talking about fire, is that Harvard was ranked last in all of its free speech rankings last year. I think it was the lowest. They had like a negative score. And the other thing about Claudine Gay is somebody who cares about academic freedom. There are two professors that were on the other side of her

campaigns to ruin their careers. And that was Roland Fryer. And I think the other one was Ronald Sullivan, the law professor, the dean who they didn't extend his contract. Again, he's still there, I believe, but they didn't re-up his contract. And, you know, he did the simple thing. And by the way, the Harvard Law School has some really, really smart and interesting people in it. And they have actually defended academic freedom as a group. They've released statements and they released a statement in defense of Sullivan and Sullivan's sin, by the way, was acting as defense counsel for Harvey Weinstein. And the people at Harvard Law School had to point out this is one of the foundational principles of our legal system is bad people get representation, too. And she didn't understand that. And now it seems to be a little bit of crying wolf. I mean, look, on the scale of sins

you get dragged into a criminal court for, serial rape and sexual assault is very, very bad. But there are some worse ones. And I'm sure any criminal defense attorney, especially those who are at an institution like Harvard, they give their eye teeth to be involved in a case. Well, you know what? I know this for a fact. Alan Dershowitz was a Harvard law professor for 50 years. He defended Klaus von Bülow. He defended O.J. Simpson. He didn't get kicked out of Harvard. I mean, just like on the rank of sins, I'm just going to put murder and nearly

beheading your ex-wife above sexual assault like Harvey did. So, I mean, like the modern day standard, what do they think a criminal defense attorney does? Just sits in his room and thinks about new amendments we can potentially push for on the Bill of Rights? Like, they defend accused criminals. It was absurd what they did to that guy, Sullivan. He got punished for something he was doing off campus, which was literally his job.

And by the way, I just, the parallel just occurred to me, the OJ, which was the entire defense was because Mark Furman was the one that found this and he had bad personal views. He couldn't have done this other thing, which is essentially what we're getting right now, right? It's like the person who delivered this information,

I think is bad. I'm not comparing him to Mark for any of these people to Mark Furman, but they're bad. So therefore the larger point is, is, is, is moot is null and void you're talking about the attacks on chris ruffo yeah or any of these people and i don't i'm not saying and again i'm not comparing them in any way no god you know i'm just saying but it's the same it's the same instance the person that person said the thing or found the thing but so what what was that person actually? What was their motive? Who are they? And that is more important than the actual crime.

Who cares? Yeah. If she didn't give them the fodder, he couldn't have done what he did. And it wasn't just Chris Ruffo, right? It was Aaron, is it Sabarium over at Washington Free Beacon? I don't want to screw up his name.

Yeah, he did a lot of really great work on it. Yeah. He did a great job. I was just texting with Eliana Johnson about him. And she said, he's a brilliant kid from Yale, has a heart of gold. He's relatively young. And this guy was critical in exposing this woman's plagiarism.

Like, can we just spend a minute on your plagiarism expose, Moynihan? Because this happened in 2019 when I was off. But I do remember this happening to the New York Times woman, right? The editor? Yeah, I've done a few. I've done about four or five of them. It became my beat for a while. Do you just take anybody's random book or post? Is there like the plagiarism machine? No, I don't. There are some people, I guess, that use those things. I mean, there's one that I've been told that is effective, but it's really, really expensive. I don't use use it there are ways of doing it there are ways of finding like like at what what is harvard called duplicative language that sort of thing um uh and i've done it for a

couple a couple four or five people maybe five or six actually and i don't the reason is because i can always tell there's always a way of telling when particularly in certain type of writing when you have shifts in language you have shifts in language, you have shifts in style. There's somebody in particular that is in this universe. It's so funny. Chris Rufo put something up and said, I'm going to offer a bounty for, you know, more people. And I'm like, well, maybe you should drop me a line because I got a few that I've discovered. And I'm just like, you know what? I don't really have time for this at the moment. But the thing that bothers me so much about it is that writing is really hard. And I think that

people don't really get that is that, you know, writing an email is easy. Writing, you know, a piece, writing a book, writing a long article is difficult for a lot of reasons. And I don't like people who cheat at it because I've, you know, it's like William F. Buckley, who famously produced, you know, 10 columns a week, incredibly prolific writer, said he hated writing more than anything else in life. But he did it so much that he could just kind of dash these things off in the back of his car on his way back to Connecticut. And that's kind of how he wrote, you know, but he didn't like it. Because writing isn't fun. And sometimes where when you're not having fun doing that, maybe people have this instinct

where it's easier to plagiarize now because you can cut and paste and before you'd have to type out these long passages. And it's also easier to get caught. But people don't think about that because most people aren't paying attention. They were paying attention to her because obviously she was under the microscope. When she was appointed president of Harvard, there were people in her field that were like, they started actually with the numbers. They said, her data sets don't look right. And then it came to plagiarism and things like that. But when it came to something like Jill Abrams then, who is the former editor of the New York Times, she wrote a book that had a couple chapters about the place that I used to work. And what, what piqued my interest is that most of the stuff wasn't true.

And then I said, where did she get this? And the first time you see it, you say, Oh God, there's a lot more of this here because the rule of plagiarism, no one ever does it once. No one ever does it for a single sentence. They do it always, you know, you know, throughout. And notice with her language too, and this is what drives me crazy

about the people who are defending her, it's not language that was cut and paste. So when I write, I actually have a system where I label things. If I've cut and paste something, this is interesting and I wanna like reincorporate this or this thought or give credit to it, I make sure it's labeled.

Sometimes people mess up, that can happen. And it happens once, that's what happens once. But the other thing is that it's usually exactly the same. If it is not exactly the same, as in the case of Claudine Gay, what they do is they try to mask it. They try to change a few words here and there, which means if you shroud the sentence in quotation marks on Google, and a lot of your listeners might know this, it'll give you exact results. But they're never exact results. There's ways of finding this stuff where all the language is fairly similar. The verbs change slightly, you know, this, the adjective might slightly change. But the other argument that I've heard quite a bit is that this is common. This is common in

academia. Is this common at Harvard? Is this really what you're paying $75,000 a year for your student, your kid to go to a school where people aren't clever enough to come up with their own language? I mean, do you think Christopher Hitchens, do you think Martin Amis, some of my favorite writers ever copied a sentence of their life? No, they couldn't keep the sentences in them. They were spilling out constantly, you know, and these people are just like, it is hard. And I want to be in this world. I want to be an academic and there's shortcuts to take. But just remember, if you're trying to do that, your shortcuts, there's always an asshole like me, who's going to try to catch you. You drive or somebody go like, I, we had an

interesting discussion with our friends the other day and we were talking, and this guy's a very successful businessman. And we were talking about how so many of these schools just want to build a perfect SAT score. That's all they want to do. They want your, you know, they will teach the test and they'll make sure that your kid comes out with, you know, the top X percentile on the SAT. And my friends were saying that doesn't produce a leader. That's exactly right. It produces somebody who's very book smart, or at least looks it, you know, who maybe

can write the best appellate court brief. But you need, in order to run a company or lead a team, you need a whole different set of skills. And it's almost like they're just looking for the wrong criteria to begin with. You know, it would have been much better for Claudine Gay if she said, I'm not really not a writer. That's not my thing. I teach well. I can excite a room. I'm inspirational to some people, and leaned into whatever quality she really had. I don't know Claudine Gay. This is based on what I've read about her over the past 24 hours. But instead, she had to defraud people. She had to pretend that she was the thing other than what she was, and she got caught.

A quick thing on that, by the way, and sorry to interrupt the step on you guys here, but the thing about Claudine Gay and why I pointed out that she went to Phillips Exeter, one of the best schools in America, and then a series of other best schools. One of the things that drives me crazy about this idea of representation in diversity is it's never really diversity. And when people say that, they're talking about diversity of thought. I'm like, no, but I'm actually not even talking about that. I'm talking about diversity of background. Class. Class in particular. And every time I worked at a place, we would hire, make sure that there was a Hispanic person, a Black person, and they all had parents that were doctors,

and they all had parents that sent them to Harvard. There are kids, by the way, and this is true. And if you don't think it's true, maybe you're the racist, is that there are kids in the projects, their kids come from really, really tough backgrounds who are insanely creative and insanely bright. And if given the opportunity, because the public schools, particularly in the city of New York, where I live, are so terrible, they don't get those opportunities. The teachers unions are part of the problem there. There's a lot of problems. But you look at the kids that are dealing with that in those boot heels on their necks. And what do they do? They come out and they don't have the best

SAT scores. As you pointed out, Megan, they're trying to keep that 1600 or whatever it's been inflated to now. They're trying to keep people hard to get into, easy to get out of. It's like, no, no, you should be looking at kids who are, you know, come from disadvantaged backgrounds, regardless of race, by the way, and kind of try to help them out because those opportunities are sometimes those people have an incredibly interesting perspective, but aren't going to be bookmarked. What I always notice is what these idiots care about is getting a Hispanic person who happens to be the ambassador

from Mexico's daughter. And that actually happened to me. Somebody was like... On the same front, yeah, I went to Syracuse and my college boyfriend was the captain of the lacrosse team there that won three national championships.

And in the field of lacrosse, you know, it's like Syracuse. Of course he was. And in the field of lacrosse, you know, it's like Syracuse. Of course he was. And in the field of lacrosse, you know, it's mostly all these white shoe colleges that produce lacrosse players, especially today. Back then they had more blue collar guys who loved lacrosse. Like he was from Yorktown Heights, New York, which is a nice suburb. But back then he was, I mean, he was the youngest of nine children in a two bedroom house, New York city cop as a dad was not

privileged. You're thinking about him a lot, Megan, but you know, a lot. Does Doug know this guy? Doug does know about this guy, but anyway, here's the point about this guy and the others on the team, all these guys, even though we were all at Syracuse, which is not Yale, would get recruited to go to these big banks in New York to work in sales and trading, right? Because they knew these guys knew how to deal with other guys to, to have a good time to sort of not whatever they might call it bro culture today, but that, that would be diminishing of these guys. They weren't that way. They were just cool guys who knew how to interact in a way that would make others, others feel comfortable. Others want to be with them. They weren't looking for necessarily the smartest book

smart guy. And I actually think that system could work, you know, and it could be open to more guys than just, you know, the white kids who are in private schools around New York. You know what I mean? If you did find guys with this personality or this ability to sort of reach out to others and give them those jobs, they could crush. They don't not everybody has to be able to write the perfect appellate court brief. I think it's looking at Harvard. It is like a lot of these institutions. Philip Sexton is one of them. It's useful to look at them as kind of the they are elite factories. They produce elite. There's always going to, whether or not the actual level of talent, the quality of person, we might consider elite, but the most elite people in the country are going to gather in a university setting and perpetuate

their status for their kids. That's just going to happen, whether we like it or not. I happen to not be a huge fan. Um, but, uh, there, the people who rise to the top of that system are going to reflect, um, the changes in what the values are that, uh, elite institutions now, uh, favor. Um, and I think in that sense, it's not's not uh it's not a surprise that we see the emergence of someone like claudine gay as opposed to laurence summers right larry summers who was um predecessor of hers he he is like a total 90s guy right uh there couldn't be someone who's more sort of neoliberal uh bunch of books uh you know academic academic, sort of rough, Clintonites, whatever, right? Like, he just smells like the 1990s version of what elite Harvard is. She looks like the elite of

2020, right? We've seen in all of these institutions, this incredible creation of a bureaucracy that has figured out how to talk in this completely tortured language that is inadmissible for normal people. I mean, that's one of the reasons why the congressional meetup was so incredibly fascinating to watch and disastrous is because these people who learned an entire system that's insane and the lingo that's associated with it, that is designed to repel kind of normal people. You have to like go intricately through all of these different things. She is a reflection of what the elite is. And that is why this is not the last of one of these types of scandals. It's not necessarily going to be plagiarism.

It's going to be that the systems that have been built up, particularly over the last 10 years in elite institutions and not just in academia, in media and a lot of other places as well. Those systems are kind of crazy. It's a lot of bureaucracy. It's a lot of diversity, equity and inclusion, mumbo jumbo. And before that all gets rolled back, and I don't think it'll ever get fully rolled back, we're going to look around and say, my God, I mean, the most

interesting thing to me in terms of who's coming out of this unscathed is Columbia University. How the hell did Columbia University escape by the last two? They produce more of that badness in the system through the Teachers College, through the Center for International Public Affairs, through the journalism school. They are producing these kind of elite ideas and attitudes that I think have been largely poisonous in the system of elite America. And it's going to take a long time for that to be rolled back. It's not a surprise that you see people rise up who just don't seem all of that normal or great or impressive under even the 1990s rules of what elite used to be. But that's because elites themselves have changed. And this is what they're producing. And it is repellent.

I wanted to say one other thing. I'm going to take a break, but I got to give a shout out to Colin Wright. He's among other things at the Manhattan Institute. And he predicted on December 19th the following. Harvard president Claudine Gay will resign, but she will not admit any wrongdoing. Again, this is December 19th, the following. Harvard president, Claudine Gay, will resign, but she will not admit any wrongdoing. Again, this is December 19th, right?

That she resigned on January 2nd or 3rd, whatever it was yesterday. She will resign, but she will not admit any wrongdoing. Instead, she will claim to be the victim of a racist right-wing witch hunt that is impacting her mental health and causing a needless distraction for students and faculty.

Her resignation, just give you a couple highlights, it's become clear that it's in the best interest of Harvard for me to resign so the community can navigate this moment of extraordinary challenge, which is focused on the institution rather than any individual. She goes on, amidst all of this, it has been distressing to have doubt cast on my commitments to confronting hate and upholding scholarly rigor to bedrock values that are fundamental to who I am and frightening to be subjected to personal attacks and threats fueled by racial animus. Colin Wright nailed it. So, you guys, I won't say I almost didn't make it to today's show. I did make it with plenty of

time, but my team has told me that they are convinced one of these days I'm not going to make it because I have a little issue of keeping my car's gas tank off of E. And I am just like Kramer. I feel the need to push it. I've got to put, I do not fill up that tank until it's dangerous until it's told bad for the engine. I it's something in me. And one of the commentators on Twitter was saying, you're either one or the other. You're either as soon as it gets below half a tank, you've got to go refill your gas tank. Or you're like, I am like Kramer is who could forget this from Seinfeld watch. There's still some overlap between the needle and the slash below the E. Oh, I've been in the slash many times. This is nothing.

You could use it. Just put it out of your mind. Ever been completely below this life? Well, I almost did once and I blacked out. What a great show. This is me. This is me. And unfortunately for my husband, Doug, he's in the other camp. So he gets very stressed out by my practice. I get in the car this morning.

I had to take my little guy to school. Doug took my other two. And I see that the gas tank, I've only got 14 miles less left. And I know his school is about 11 miles away. So I'm like, I'm good. I'm fine. I can, I can. You got to get back. Well, I figured I'd just go to the gas station at some point after. And I didn't bother to see whether it was in three miles of, you know, where the school was, but I know the dashboard lies. I don't believe the dashboard of the gas fuel tank gauge. And so we're driving and I'm like, Thatcher, you know, I'm down to seven. He's like, how far away is the school? I'm like, I think it might be about seven. He's like, okay. It goes

down. It's down at two. By the time I get to drop him off, it's at two, which I took a picture of and sent to poor Doug, which was really mean because it just drove up his agita. There it was at two. The seatbelt signs on because my little guy had gotten out of the back seat and he was going into school at 8 a.m. So now I got two miles to get to the get, but I don't believe it. I know there's a reserve in there that they're not telling me about because they built it for people like me. So I kept going and look what came up on the gauge next. Look, I, this I've, I've never seen before.

Look, can you see it? I can't. No. We'll zoom in. It's a nothing. It's literally a flat line. That's just gone. Drugs, you know, know wow for their kicks there's other things to do but you know what happened i dropped him off his last words to

me he's 10 was uh we're his last word luck you're gonna need it and off i went they said that the nearest gas thing was i think 11 miles away i was on E for a long time, just like Kramer. Made it, no problem. Look what happened. By 8.16. Can you show them the picture? Stay by. So proud. 454 miles. Boom. By 8.16. You are a

menace, Miss Kelly. Megan, do you need to borrow some money or something? I can Venmo you if you need a little for gas money or whatever. I'm winning. You're winning. What's winning? I'm winning life.

It's just less time at the gas station. That's how it feels. It's misinformation. There's a parallel. It's misinformation. There's a parallel between people who do this and people who get to the airport like three minutes before the flight leaves. Of course.

Of course. Of course. Shocker. Doug always says, I'm not happy unless my lungs are burning when I sit down on the plane. And I'm like, nailed it. Yeah. That's you didn't nail it.

You didn't nail it. There's going to be a video, by the way, that goes viral of you screaming at a gate agent. Yeah. No. I don't have to, because my system works perfect.

He wants to go three hours in advance. God forbid we have the family with us and an international trip. You could bring a sleeping bag with the amount of time he wants to leave between us and the flight. I'm with him. He and Abby are the same. And Steve Krakauer and Debbie Murphy, my producers are very, very stressed out. They're texting me saying, Debbie Murphy says, this is just like when you're

on the air and you won't rap and our days at Fox. She said, the dashboard is the problem. It states, please refuel. For you, it needs to be, I'm serious, refuel now. Are you kidding? I see the number on the screen ticking down now. Can I just keep talking? If it goes to- See, I'll push it, right? There's a reserve. The dash needs to say, MK, you're not going to make it. Seriously. Right now. Go!

We've got eight minutes. I could introduce a whole new topic. Oh, but they really don't want me to. Stand by. We'll be right back. Bit of breaking news right now. I called for the impeachment of Mayorkas at the beginning of this hour.

Guess what? They're doing it. They're like, what else should we wish for, guys? What else? What's on our list? Oh, my God. Peace on Earth. Good will toward all men.

The Epstein list. All right. A lacrosse player from Syracuse. Here's the release. House Republicans moving forward with impeachment proceedings against DHS Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas. The proceedings will begin January 10th with the House Homeland Security Committee holding a first impeachment hearing. A committee spokesman told USA Today, Punchbowl News, first reported news of the hearing. This concerns allegations that Mayorkas has been derelict in his duty of managing the border for Reuters. They've been trying to get this done in the House and they haven't actually had the GOP votes. There's been like some eight holdouts saying, yeah, he's like he's derelict in his duties, but it doesn't rise to the level of of impeachment. And now things appear to be swinging the other way. So, yeah, we'll see what happens with him. I mean, look, I'm just horrified by

these numbers. They're terrible. We have no border. The number was 302,000 in this past month, in the month of December, 302,000 undocumented migrants coming across the border. That doesn't include the gotaways. It literally is almost now equal with and about to exceed the birth rate in the United States. More people coming in from other countries than are being born to American mothers. Like there's something deeply wrong about this. And maybe maybe they're targeting the wrong guy because it's really his boss who ultimately should be directing the administration's immigration policy. But even you guys is more, I don't know if it's fair to say you're more open borders guys, but you're libertarians. You, even you have to see that this is,

this is out of control. Completely out of control. I mean, 300,000 in a month is absolutely astonishing. I mean, you have a border, you don't. I mean, it's a very simple proposition. If you want to have a border, you have to have some measure of enforcement. And it strikes most people. And by the way, this is true of both Democrats and Republicans. I mean, I'm keeping in mind in the past, you know, Bernie Sanders was somebody very, very critical of more open borders because the left wing argument always was that more immigrant labor pushes down working class wages. And there is some evidence to suggest that that is absolutely true. So, I mean, there are a number of ramifications from this across the board, whether it's from, you know, welfare state stuff, whether it's, you know, job market stuff. But beyond anything is

that there has to be some system. And most people are totally baffled by this. And I've talked to a few voters about this when I was in Texas doing a story about this. And by the way, all of them are Hispanic. That's, you know, what they're baffled by the fact that you cannot apprehend somebody and send them back. And this is beyond, you know, something about seeking asylum, et cetera. And I think, Megan, you played on the show the other day. I can't remember who it was saying that, you know, everybody has a right to come to America and seek asylum. The mayor of Boston, Michelle. The mayor of Boston, Michelle Wu, who loves having parties that white people can't attend. That's a great place, by the way. But, you know, this kind of thing is baffling to people. And it should be something that when they're an open border is an open border. I mean, when I was down on the border,

you had Governor Abbott, who was sending the Texas Rangers and everybody out there to try to do something. And when I talked to these people, they said, there is nothing we can do. We're absolutely overwhelmed. And I think that was the week where there was the false story that, um, the, that migrants were being whipped and that is, you know, they're trying to apprehend people and to, you know, that's, that's what these people have to deal with when they're in this job and apprehending them is kind of useless anyway. Well, it's amazing because Texas actually had to pass a law. They just passed a law saying, we're going to take care of it. We're going to start arresting illegals and we're going to deport them. And the feds, the Biden

administration has stepped in to say, oh, no, you won't because of federalism. And unfortunately, the Biden administration is right. That is the way the Constitution works. When the feds haven't legislated, the states are free to legislate as they want. When the feds have the responsibility of the legislating and have legislated, though not in the way most of us would like to see, you can't. It's their field to legislate in. And they preempt the state law. That's really the way immigration works. And I applaud Governor Abbott for trying to do something about this, Matt, but that's not going to work. It's going to be struck down in the courts. And Texas has been really suffering, trying to just do anything. Even if they got rid of Mayorkas, the next guy is going to just be pushing Biden's policies, too.

The that power that the president has and that the executive branch has was expanded by Donald Trump. So in the defense of his own more restrictionist policies. So it's just always an object lesson in the way that power works in Washington. If your guy gets more power, the guy that you hate is also going to get more power. He's going to use it in a different way. One thing that is always brought to mind about this and one reason why we're in this cycle, right? Take a broader view or a longer view of 30 years, 35 years. 35 years ago, there wasn't a mile even really of a wall or fencing. Now we have what, 650 miles of some kind of a barrier or some of the concrete, some of it imposing, some of it less so. When people get mad about illegal immigration, which they are right now,

and I understand that, and the chaos is infuriating and just kind of horrific to grapple with, the instinct too often, in my view, is that they want to restrict legal immigration in those moments. Donald Trump did everything in his power to basically stop America as a destination country for refugees, which is completely ahistorical. That's not what we used to do in the 70s and 80s under both Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan. We were the primary destination for refugee populations who could totally enrich the country, right? From Cuba, from Vietnam, from Russia, from Iran came to this country. We no longer are that country anymore. Part of what happens when you restrict the ways for legal immigrants to go in is that,

of course, people find their way around in the other 1300 miles that is not fenced off. They go around the normal way. We did a magazine cover or graphic when I was editor of reason called get in line now, stay out. It's a bit cheeky, but if you look at the actual flow chart of what would happen if you were a Filipino wanting to come here and immigrate legally, perfectly legally as a nurse, which is something that people have done for a long time because we have a nursing shortage or we've decided that we have a nursing shortage. That's a longer story about the nurses union in California. But so if you did everything right,

it takes 19 years. That's not really a way to get people to come in legally. But it's counterintuitive to say that, oh, we need more legal immigration to have less illegal immigration. People already you've already lost the plot with a lot of people. And so we go into these cycles now where both sides, in my opinion, love the issue. They don't love solving the issue. Democrats love to say, yeah, we're here for the dreamers, man. We're just like trying to do all this. And they never, ever pass any bill that actually does anything with them. And to your point, Matt, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Donald Trump had a Republican Congress when he first took over in the White House. I believe he did too. Always look at what happens in the first two years of a presidency when they have all the power. What do they do with immigration? In Donald Trump's case, well, he tried the Muslim ban. So he

did actually try to do his own executive power thing. All the stuff he did could be easily undone, to your point. I mean, we really do want a small executive. People need to be reminded of this all the time. We need a small executive. We did not want a king. That's not what the founders created this country for. There's a reason why Article 1 of the Constitution establishes the legislative branch first. The legislative branch, the people who answer directly to us.

And the president comes second. He's after. He's supposed to be smaller. We want his power to be tiny, teeny, tiny. He's after he's supposed to be smaller. We want his power to be tiny, teeny, tiny. He's harder to fire. And it's no one man or woman should have that much authority over us. And by the way, they're not using it properly. It is getting they skip the legislative branch altogether so they can put their their agenda items and then they just get undone. This problem is really pernicious in New York City, where I know you guys are.

There's lines going around the block yesterday for the guaranteed housing that New York is offering because it's a sanctuary city. So these illegal migrants come in. They go up to New York either because they're being bused there by the Biden administration or they're putting they're putting them on planes. The New York Post has documented this. They get off at Westchester Airport and then they run around New York or because some Southern state governor has bused them up here and then they get free housing, but only for like 30 to 60 days. And then they just get out. All you have to do is get back in line and back into the free housing free in quotes, air quotes free. So the actual taxpayers of New York City are paying for this through the nose. And what are they supposed? I mean, like, yes, you should vote in a Republican,

but even the Democrat in charge of New York now is starting to get it. Speaking up about it. His solutions are left wing solutions. More money from the feds, faster work permits for the illegals. Well, that's an incentive for more to come. Just no one is in charge. I really believe this is one of the reasons why Donald Trump's numbers are so strong. They people are feeling this. They're feeling this in northern cities, in southern cities. The problem gets worse by the day. A great get rid of Mayorkas until you get rid of Biden or somebody who's in favor of this shit. It's going to keep happening. Yeah, it's certainly one of those situations where it's impossible to

say that Donald Trump got got everything right on the border, certainly didn't complete the wall that he promised to build. He didn't end the problem, but he did talk honestly. For the most part about what was going on, at a minimum, the thing that he said that left people most incensed was saying there was a crisis on the border, that there was, to quote him, an invasion. At a minimum, there has been a crisis on the border for a very long time. It wasn't racist to say so when Donald Trump said it. It was correct. And at this point, it is a full-blown, undeniable crisis. And the Biden administration has spent much of recent weeks trying to shift blame on this away from themselves and away from the policies that they have generally supported and towards away from the policies that they have

generally supported and towards Republicans, insisting that they're the ones who really don't want to protect the border, which is a little bit hard to swallow. But of course, there's a hell of a lot of politics being paid right now. As you pointed out, Megan, I think it's fair to say that I, at least, I don't know about all of us uniformly, generally in favor of very permissive immigration policy. But what I'm most in favor of specifically is a functional immigration policy, something that is coherent, something that both at the national level permits it possible for incredible entitlements being created that incentivize people to come that have no real means of taking care of themselves or finding a job on their own if they manage to immigrate to the country. I'm a first-generation immigrant. My grandfather and

grandmother who came, my grandmother was a duress worker. My grandfather was an illiterate dock worker. He died signing his name with an X. We probably wouldn't have been able to come here under certain policies, but I think I've made some pretty important contributions in this country. Immigration policy that makes it possible for me to come here, that makes it possible for me to come here to this fabulous country and be a part and contribute is wonderful. An immigration policy that creates the kind of chaos that we're seeing on the southern border and the chaos that we're seeing in blue states and blue cities all across the country is not functional and reasonable. So there's a

tremendous amount of work that needs to be done here politically. And a lot of the attempts to blame shift and point fingers in one direction or another or insist that people are racist for being concerned about this are just dead wrong. And I think you've got a lot of southern state border state Democrats who are concerned about these issues and have talked about them in soberer ways than we've seen on the national level. One can only hope that we start to get our act together because this is this is awful. It is a genuine concern from a national security standpoint and is a real human tragedy. There are people who are suffering because they're participating in these caravans and going to the southern border. So there's so

many reasons to be meaningfully concerned about it. And I just wish there were more serious political conversations happening around these issues. There's no one who looks at the images from those caravans and says, well, this is sensible. This is the way it should be done. I mean, that's the first reaction people have. And as a little game, I would recommend viewers and listeners go back to the Trump years and find the endless numbers of media accounts that said that the crisis on the border was misinformation and was false. That was that was four years of that. But this didn't this was not a real thing. This was a fake crisis.

It was not a fake crisis. And we saw that it you know, the incentives are for a caravan of people to come. The immigrants that are coming know exactly what to do. I mean, I remember this when I was in Sweden, is that, you know, people would come from the Middle East to Greece and to Italy, pretty hospitable climates for people that are from the Middle East. And somehow they would try to go to the northernmost point in Europe, which is Sweden, and unbelievably inhospitable and cold, but very hospitable when it came to giving people apartments, giving people asylum, a very easy process there. People know what they're doing. They know exactly what they're

doing, what they're going to get when they get here. Taking away that incentive, I mean, I think Matt's right. It was an enormous number of contributions of people that came from Vietnam after the Vietnam War, which, by the way, we had a very particular responsibility for those people after fighting the Vietnam War and from Russia, et cetera. But, you know, when you have people that are claiming asylum, that they say that, you know, I'm in trouble in Guatemala or Honduras or something, it's like, well, you've just walked through a number of countries that could provide you with safety. That's not what you're looking for. You're an economic migrant. You didn't ask Mexico to help you. Right. You just want to be here. It's a lie. And we know it's a lie. The whole thing is a, you know, it's chicken and egg what you were talking

about, Matt, because the higher the illegal immigrant immigration, the less amenable the American people are to legal immigration. They just start to say, you know what? It's like the sign from Homer Simpson. Go home. The country's full. That's how they're feeling. Get out. We're done. You know, we are hospitable. We are welcoming. We have been. It's been abused. And now Americans are suffering. And so we're going full hard line. And there's just I mean, look, if this Biden administration were serious about doing something along the southern border and it's not, it would consult with somebody like Stephen Miller. Honestly, that guy had real plans for stopping the flow of illegal migrants across that border, like the remain in Mexico policy, which the Biden administration is now much warmer to, like making you seek asylum in a country. You can't seek asylum here unless you've already

sought it in a country prior to getting here and so on. This is what I think. I want something closer to Australia's immigration policy. You know the movie? I make this reference all the time. I'm going to have them cut the clip so I can just press it like a button on my little Sirius XM button box. You know the scene in A Christmas Story with Ralphie where he wants the gun and he finally gets on Santa's lap and forgets to say he wants the BB gun and he starts going down the slide and then he remembers, oh my God, I forgot to say it,

and he climbs up to the top of the slide and you remember what happens to him? He gets a boot in the forehead, boot in the forehead, back down the slide. That's what Australia does to illegal immigrants. That's what we need to do. You go to Australia and you're not supposed to be there, That's what we need to do. You go to Australia

and you're not supposed to be there. They put you in a detention facility like that. You are in immigrant jail effectively, and you do not get out of immigrant jail until you can prove that you are deserving of a visa or some other legal presence in Australia. I mean, good luck to you in trying to get in there. That's why they don't have the problems we have. One of these days I'm going to put on Paul Murray, who I love. He's over there on Sky News. He's going to explain it all to us. But we need something other than what we have because it's a hot mess. All right, let me move on. I want to do politics. There's another debate sort of next week. A couple of things are happening in the political world. Number one, it's official now, according to FiveThirtyE 38 polling, Nikki Haley is number two behind Donald Trump and DeSantis

is number three. Um, you know, it's like, wow, she's like a point ahead of him. It's not a meaningful lead, but she has some teeny tiny bit of momentum and he doesn't, um, this as the two of them, Haley and DeSantis are about to face off against each other on CNN on January 8th. Is it the 8th or the 10th? You'll look it up. And it's just those two. It's DeSantis versus Haley. CNN required you to have 10% in, I think, either three national or one Iowa poll. It's on the 10th. And the only two to make it were those two. So they'll go mano a mano, which doesn't mean man to man. It means hand to hand combat. Hello. And one person very upset about this is your pal, Matt Welsh, because I read your Reason article about him,

Vivek Ramaswamy. He's very upset that he was kept out of the CNN debate and is going to be counter-programming with an interview with Tim Pool, which I think, with all due respect to those two, will be watched by absolutely no one, at least live, because the real Vivek, Donald Trump, is having a live town hall on Fox at that same moment. He's trans Trump. He identifies as Trump. That's a real thing by a comedian and it's amazing. It's amazing. Great Kyle Dunnigan. What do you make of the what's going on on the 10th between the GOP candidates? I'm kind of relieved. I generally want more people on a debate stage than less, especially when it comes to general elections. I would like the third party and weirdo independent candidates to be up there just because I'm more likely to vote for them, but also because I think America needs more than what we're going to get in 2020, what we're going to get good and hard in 2020. But in this case,

there's whatever year we are now, it's always 2020. Like we haven't climbed out of that rut yet. Um, but, uh, in the case of the, if you're not going to have Trump on the debate stage and there's no reason for him to do it, so he's not going to, um, then the question is who's going, who has a meaningful chance of taking him on. And Vivek Ramaswamy, as interesting as he is in many ways, he hasn't demonstrated, except for that little period of time when he was polling nationally around seven or 8% when he first sort of like broke through. And that was arguably the most interesting person in the race on some level. But he has not concentrated meaningfully on one of the early states in such a way to kind of break through or have a normal window of opportunity in there.

So he's not pulling nationally near 10 percent. He's not pulling in Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina, Nevada or anywhere else like that close to 10 percent. let's see the difference between Nikki Haley and Ron DeSantis and see how they behave in that kind of rehearsal for what it's going to be like when there's just two people or a very small number of people on stage. So, you know, did the exact thing that you'd expect is he slightly preempted CNN and, and said, you know, he's going to go, he's going to, gloves are off now, you know, cause up to now he's really unrestrained. He's been holding his tongue.

From saying every day. They gave him aining himself. He's been holding his tongue. Yeah. From saying every damn cool thing. They gave him a town hall. They gave him a town hall. Like they haven't, he's had an opportunity to go on CNN. He didn't qualify. Chris Christie didn't qualify either. Speaking of browbeating, my God, CNN, I think before even the town hall had happened, had

already had this Oliver Darcy, like hand-wringing, like, my God, they're just platforming this person with their dangerous ideas. Just awful kind of brow-biting. Yeah, it's media. It's journalism. He's a presidential candidate. Interview him. You bring him on, you ask him serious questions.

That's what you do. That's not platforming. That is your job. It's fine. And then Van Jones's over-the-top reaction after the fact, like, we're going to be stuck with him and his ideas for the next 50 years. This fascist. OK, take a breath, sweetheart. Get your smelling salts. You'll be OK. Get over your fainting couch. But in any event, so they're going to go, Nikki and Ron, and I don't think anything changes as a result of this. It's on the eve of Iowa. They're going to do the same thing, I think, on the eve of New Hampshire. Nothing changes. Trump, the New York Times' The Daily podcast did a very interesting deep dive on the plan ahead for the next year for Trump.

They did that yesterday. And for Biden, they did that today. Biden's, I would say, is less interesting. It boiled down to he's going to make it all about Trump. Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump. It's the anti-Trump election. Those of you who didn't really want to vote for me, you can't put this maniac back in office. And the Republicans actually was a very interesting dive into what

Trump has been doing with state party leaders to secure this nomination early when it comes to delegates long before he has to sit for a trial so that if he is convicted and we believe he will be convicted in some of these, if not all cases, we'll see what happens in appeal. He'll already have the delegates necessary for the nomination. If you listen to Maggie Haberman laid out with Michael Barbaro on the, on the yesterday's podcast, it was good. He's been working hard to make sure all these state party leaders are changing the rules right now to inure to Trump's benefit so he can round them up good and early. And then the Republicans are stuck with Trump. There's no

there won't be any switching him out at the convention, by which point he may have been convicted. And the Democrats are banking on these independents and these sort of softer Republicans just not being able to pull the lever for someone who's been convicted of a felony. And keep in mind that too will be the vote on the heels of seven months plus, no, more like 11, I guess, of nonstop Trump coverage. So in a way, it's like Trump's been kind of lying low-ish, but once he's back day to day in the national consciousness, this doesn't necessarily help him. Right. His drama is something a lot of Republicans were done with Democrats. Yes. Independent. So they have him in the news every day and they have

him on trial every day. They're like they're throwing enough shit at him that they think these voters in the middle are going to be done with him come November. Anyway, things seem to be going according to plan. I mean, they're one thing you can't say about the Democrats is that they're dumb. Yeah, I mean, they know what they're doing here. I don't I wonder about this strategy. I mean, there's some polling that suggests that that might be a decent strategy, the number of people who say if Donald Trump is convicted, if that changes their opinion of him and changes their willingness to vote for him, that's higher than I suspected. Because, you know, the thing about Donald Trump is he's done so much for so many years in so many kind of weird iterations, and it doesn't seem to do much to his popularity

and or credibility. The difference, obviously, now is Joe Biden had to amble up on stage in 2019, 2020 and say, I am not him. And now he has to amble up on stage and he's not as good at ambling now. Also not as good as talking. Honestly, go back and watch those debates. He's not very good at all, but he's a thousand times worse now. It's really, really astonishing. So what they have to do is kind of keep him out of the spotlight, keep him out of a debate. I mean, they should vote. Donald Trump should want to debate him. He'll absolutely crush him.

And that's sort of beneficial to him. But obviously, you know, Joe Biden has a record now to run on. And a lot of that record isn't very good, particularly when it comes to the border. I mean, the Bidenomics, I mean, that has just been the weirdest rollout of this is what we're going to hang our shingle on. This is going to be Bidenomics is going to be the thing, despite the fact that now the economy is getting better and interest rates are coming down, which is going to be actually a very, very positive thing for a lot of people, particularly people always forget about those who have adjustable rate mortgages who are paying a thousand dollars more in the past four years. I mean, now that that is a substantial difference. So he has some things to run on, but there's plenty that that people do not like. It's just like, God, if a Republican runs somebody who is not Donald Trump and who is not about to sit in a docket four times, there wouldn't be a question that Joe Biden wouldn't have a Michael Dukakis election.

The Bidenomics thing, Camille, is like Trump trying to run on like Trumpocracy. Take your weakest thing, you know, like January 6th, the worst thing, and just try to turn it into a positive. Yes, it was. It was too. You'll like it. Look, I'm Doug Brandon. I can only I can only imagine that the Biden administration in a universe where Biden has the nomination and Trump has the nomination will use the Trump precedent of just not engaging in debates is at least part of their rationale for refusing to share a stage with Donald Trump. And it is very curious.

I mean, certainly all these state efforts to try and push Trump off the ballot in states that he probably wouldn't win anyways. So it's largely theater. It does seem to be having a beneficial effect for Trump in that you've got all of his opponents essentially rallying to his defense and kind of insisting that this is wrong and you're overstepping. And you certainly see Republicans who are similarly seeing this kind of thing. And certainly anyone who is even remotely skeptical about the outcome of the election in 2020 now having essentially their concerns validated in a way because they see these states doing something that, at a minimum, is an extremely novel legal maneuver to try and ensure that the person who would be most likely to win a Democratic election,

or at least a person who has a shot at winning a Democratic election, can't even participate in that Democratic election. I mean, they are sending all of the worst signals if uh, some sort of scheme that they hope will actually hurt Republicans, not clear that it will, uh, it could backfire in a pretty profound way. You, you mentioned, um, states that he's not going to win anyway. I will say, well, he came within, it was 4.9 percentage points of Hillary in 2016 in Colorado. So, you know, that's, that's not insurmountable. Then in Maine, where he's also been booted off the ballot by this one unelected secretary of state, very partisan woman who's called him an insurrectionist in the past, among other things. Among other things. That's one of

those states that splits that splits its electoral votes. And there's at least one of them is definitely gettable and this kind of thing can come down to one electoral vote that leads me back to vivek because he is pledging that he's going to take himself off the ballot in maine because of what they've done he says the same about colorado here he is talking about maine uh on news nation on monday watch thought for but if every Republican removes themselves, that nullifies Maine and nullifies Colorado. If they remove Trump's name, my name's off, too. And I call on Ron DeSantis and Nikki Haley and Chris Christie to do the same thing.

Their words are cheap. Action speaks louder than words. Now, their unwillingness to do that, I think, reveals that they're actually complicit in part in what's happening, even if indirectly. OK, I'm the only one with the courage to do it. I'm the only one with the courage to do it. Here's Ron DeSantis responding last night on Laura Ingram. Just absurd. I mean, I have a responsibility to accumulate delegates. I'm not going to unilaterally seat any. I'm going to win as many as I can. And I've been very clear about both of those decisions in those states. It's not consistent with the Constitution. I do expect them to get reversed. I've raised the question about Biden. I mean, if he has greenlit eight million illegals invading this country, is he eligible to be on? So we can play this game all along. I think it's not going to end up well for our country. But I do know this, that if any of the other ones of us had

gotten kicked off the ballot, Trump would be spiking the football. Let's just be clear. That's so true. That sounds about right. So true. Yeah. Well, Vivek is obviously doing this the right way. If in a race to see who maybe gets the vice presidential nod, you want to say everything that would be satisfying to the front runner. And hey, if he's off, I'm off. And anyone else who doesn't do the same is a coward and a monster and is a party to this horrible, egregious crime. He's saying precisely the right thing. He said it in the longer side. He says, I'll lead the way.

I mean, this is Vivek's rhetoric on everything. I'm the only one. There's a reason you're the longer shot. He says, I'll lead the way. I mean, this is the biggest rhetoric on everything. I'm the only one. There's a reason you're the only one. He said the same thing about pardoning Trump. Let's remember. He said, I will preemptively, not only will he pardon Trump on day one, I'm sure it's minute one. He's not even going to take a presidential piss. He's just going to get there and he's going to preemptively pardon Trump.

But that he's the only one with the courage to, he's calling out everybody else. If they're not going to preemptively pardon trump um but that he's the only one with the courage to he's calling out everybody else if they're not going to preemptively pardon trump we had him on the fifth column podcast a few months ago and um and like pressed him on this and it wasn't just like yeah i think it's a good idea to make the peace and also i would really love to be the vice presidential nominee um it was like uh no uh I'm the only one who understands the legal theory of why all of the prosecutions of Trump are like unconstitutional. He had to invent some kind of constitutional expertise, which he patently does not have. He was unfamiliar. But meanwhile, both I mean, I don't have any love loss for Chris Christie's presidential race, but Chris Christie and Ron DeSantis were both practicing lawyers for far longer. I don't think Vivek's ever practiced law. I think he went right into entrepreneurship.

If he did, he practiced it for maybe for a year. Those two, I mean, DeSantis was a JAG Corps lawyer for years and Chris Christie was the attorney general before he became the governor. So, I mean, yes, there are others in the race who do understand the law probably much better than Vivek. Yeah. And in fact, that's what we handed him was Chris Christie's interpretation of the law and. And he rejected it out of hand. But, you know, let's also say that it's good to have people who are not lawyers, Megan, to be involved in politics, in addition to not being necessarily Harvard lawyers. So I have respect for that. But yeah, it's almost everything that Vivek has done just so happens to be very, very copacetic to Donald Trump's political fortunes. He should just endorse him. You know,

who's Ben Shapiro yesterday was saying, if he really wants to help Trump, he should just get out of the race and endorse him. Just like the point, you know, like, well, go for it. Well, I think one of the points is that Trump might die and Trump might and Trump might have something involved with his legal complications that makes it difficult for him to run. In which case, Vivek is the best suited at this point for maybe to be the a recipient of people who are ride or die for Trump right now not this yeah but don't don't under yeah don't under count uh count narcissism too I mean I Chris Christie this morning was on on Morning Joe yes and asked about this and says you know I mean it would be beneficial to the people that you think could

potentially be Trump slayers if you backed out the tiny bit, the tiny number of people that are actually backing you would maybe be thrown to Nikki Haley or Ron DeSantis. And he was like, you know, I'm in it to win it. And it's like, you're not, but you're not going to win it. You can't win it. So why don't you? And it was, and he also gave a very mealy mouthed attack on on the main decision, too, which was like, yeah, it's wrong, but he is an insurrectionist. It's like, no, no, you don't get to say that. That's the way this works is very simple. Due process in this country is important. If you think that he's an insurrectionist, it does not matter. A court has to decide that.

When David Axelrod is saying it better than you're saying it, you're a bad Republican presidential candidate. I mean, it's ridiculous. And but I have to agree. I mean, the case is against Trump. There is one that has, in my view, legal merit, and that is the prosecution on the Mar-a-Lago documents. If he defied a federal subpoena, he's in a lot of trouble. All of us would be if we defied a federal subpoena. But there's a real question about whether it should have been brought. We can go back to Hillary. We can go back to a lot of whatever.

We've been over this. But I agree with Vivek that these are bullshit cases and that they shouldn't have been brought in the first place. The thing with Vivek is that he's out there saying shit like, why am I the only one to be talking about how 9-11 was an inside job? Why am I the only one to be talking about how January 6th was an inside job and that the 2016 election was stolen too? There is a reason why you're the only one. No one else is totally insane. I got theories. I got, I got feelings. Um, in any way. Okay. So let's, let's move on because that's immigration and that's politics and that's all very interesting, but I want to get to the fact that, well, we have to do a quick, quick break and then come back. And then we have to talk about the fact that now in America, USA boxing is allowing men who say they're women to box actual women. This has been a joke up until now. This has been the one sport

that people have been joking like, oh, sure. Yeah. Like what's going to happen? I like in boxing. Yeah, it's happening. Finally, I can box. I'll let you mull that over in the next 60 seconds and we'll get back to you. I'm Megan Kelly, host of the Megan Kelly show on Sirius XM. It's your home for open, honest and provocative conversations with the most interesting and important political, legal and cultural figures today. You can catch The Megyn Kelly Show on Triumph, a SiriusXM channel featuring lots of hosts you may know and probably love. Great people like Dr. Laura, I'm back, Nancy Grace, Dave Ramsey, and yours truly, Megyn Kelly. You can stream The Megyn Kelly Show on SiriusXM at home or anywhere you are. No car required. I do it all the time. I love the Sirius XM app. It has ad free music coverage of every major sport comedy talk podcast and more. Subscribe now show to subscribe and get three months free.

That's SiriusXM.com slash MK show and get three months free. Offer details apply. So it's finally happened. USA Boxing, the governing body overseeing America's amateur and Olympic-style boxing, has adopted a new policy that will let men who say they're women beat up actual women. You do have to have reassignment surgery, but I've got news for USA Boxing. Cutting off your penis doesn't eliminate your male muscle and bone and lung strength and so on. Advantages.

You don't fight with your penis when you're boxing. You guys may not be aware of this. Oh, boxing, boxing. Sorry. I just thought in general, because I do. Yeah. Anyway. Yeah. Now you do have to lower your testosterone for four years. But again, none of this reduces the advantage. I mean, picture The Rock. All right? Suddenly his penis is gone, and he's lowered his testosterone. He's going to fucking kill somebody.

What show is this? I don't want to picture that. Oh my God. Somewhere, Ike Turner is smiling. I was thinking that. This is like the ike turner boxing he never relented he never relented from his defense that when he hit annie may it was for her own good he was helping her that's right it's totally fine you deserve to be okay with that it's

in his song right camille correct or she just wouldn't yeah what's wrong with you girl what's wrong with you went on for like two three days so, you know, you hit her just a little bit to try to get her to talk. And then she- Oh, this is the end of whatever career you have, Camille. That's what he said. I'm not saying it's good. Look, in boxing, at a minimum, you do have these weight classes. In MMA, you've got even more. I know that there's, apparently I just learned there's something called an atom weight, which is less than a straw weight. So I don't have to worry that I'll see a castrated rock pummeling some 105 pound woman. But it is, it is. And this is the thing. There are certainly men who have had their asses whooped by women. And I imagine that that will happen again in the future. And in some cases, they've even got

somewhat equivalent weights. But there's a reason why you have weight classes in boxing. You're trying to avoid people who are of dramatically different capabilities getting into a ring together and bludgeoning one another to death, or someone being bludgeoned to death because they're so out of their depth in a particular fight. And I don't know if they'll be able to maintain that sort of parity by disregarding gender, even under the particular criteria that they've defined for themselves. Oh, I know. Here's your answer.

It's a no. It's a no. It's a hard no. Hard no. Who are those girls? I'm going to pick one of them. I just want to figure out which one I'm fighting. Sages.

Sages on this issue. That's who they are. Just to help them. No, this is ridiculous. And they ought to be ashamed of themselves. And this needs to be reversed immediately. OK, there's a couple other things I've got to get to. Otherwise, I could spend all day doing that. Have you heard about the conservative dad's calendar? Made a bunch of waves when we were all celebrating the holidays and the, um, it's, it's the ultra right beer is the sort of brand behind it. This guy, I follow him on Twitter. He put out this calendar of conservative women, full disclosure. He actually asked

yours truly if I would be a part of it. I said, hell no. Um, but others made a different choice and now like a lot of people on the internet are upset about this. More conservative women are saying this is not what we need. It's been called conservative dads, real women for America calendar. But I got to be honest, I couldn't care less about people do it. I think this is great. Dana Lash. She's amazing. She's not showing anything. She's like holding guns. Riley Gaines is in a bikini. Hello. She's a swimmer. She's gorgeous. I don't, but people are upset. Like a lot of conservative women who I love are like, this is not the way forward. So it doesn't have to be the way forward. It's not, everything has to be the way forward. Something could be just staying right in place

or not having any forward lateral or backwards motion at all. The only thing that matters here, Megan, and you know this as well as I do, is if they are hot. And if they are hot, then it's fine. If they are not hot, then I'm opposed to the calendar. I mean, this is a simple calculation. Wow. You know, Matt, you make a very strong argument. I make a very strong argument.

I could be a lawyer from that. I'm going to talk to my wife. I'm going to see if this argument passes muster, but if it does, I'm in your corner. She'll tell me. I said this on the fifth column the other day, my daughter accused me of being at a, at a restaurant. My 12 year old daughter said, you think the waitress is hot, don't you? And I'm like, am I really, is it that obvious? Am I like, am I showing this at all times? And I said, yes, dear, I do think that. And then we just moved on and had a very lovely meal. Wow. Very creepy. Girl, you're going to be years of therapy for that one. Oh, we've already started it. Yeah. I don't know. People are upset. They're like, I mean, I love Allie Beth Stuckey.

She's conservative. She's a Christian. And she's like, look, I, do we really need something for conservative dads? I don't think it's necessarily for people who are married with children. It's like, that's the name of the, the guy's group anyway, you know, saying like, I I've seen this before I posed actually for, was it GQ magazine? I can't remember now. I think it was GQ magazine and like a sultry little dress. I was very pregnant at the time. And I was proud that I could still squeeze myself into one of these numbers. Um, and it was what I was turning 40. I was like, this is a good marker in time for like the 40 year old me, but I got a lot of blowback for that too. And it was all from

conservatives who were like, that was a mistake. That's not what conservatives stand for. I was like, what do you mean? Conservatives can be saucy? Why are conservatives, why do we have to be all stuffy and like not sexy? I don't, yeah, I don't know. That's why conservatives lose the culture war because they give you a hard time about being in GQ. It's not the right response. But it's not just conservatives who do it. It's people on the left, I imagine, primarily who were critical of you, Megan, for posing. And there is a bizarre double standard with respect to gender here, because, you know, we and less me and more for Moynihan and Welch.

I mean, they're confronted every day with, you know, these apex predators who have their chiseled eight pack abs and they're on the covers of magazines. And where's the love for Moynihan and Welch? They deserve love. I know, you know, not all of us, not all of us can be. You can show them right now if you want. Pull up your shirt. too. You know, not all of us, not all of us can be. You can show them right now if you want. Doe Libertarian Monthly is not a great magazine. We're not getting a lot of. That's someone's cup of tea. You know, I hope that I'm someone's cup of tea, but I doubt that.

We could give it a try, guys. We could take one of those like cruises together and we could bill it as like, meet the men of the libertarian calendar. Oh my God, that would be, and by the way, I say this and Matt knows this very well of being around libertarian world. That is not, and Matt actually just dropped out of the call because he was so angry. Matt's face is so angry because he's frozen. He looks so unhappy with what you're saying. He's so unhappy. Yeah. Well, I mean, if you've ever been around libertarians, you realize that maybe you'll get January and February and it's both going to be me. So I'm sorry. Well, I'm Mr. October. So it's fine. Stossel. Look at Stossel in there.

Oh, Stossel with the mustache, of course. Yeah. Oh my gosh. One month for Rand, one month for Ron. He's the Tom Selleck of free markets. Yeah, people love him. I already have that calendar. At least you're men. Okay, at least you're men. There's a growing trend to fall in love with trees.

Trees. This is from the New York Post, right? New York Post. Highlighting a woman who calls herself an ecosexual who has become infatuated with an oak tree. She is also a self intimacy guide and quote, somatic sex educator in training. She has taken nature loving to the extreme after becoming infatuated with this oak tree, which she says fills her with erotic energy. Wow. What a tree eroticism with something so big and so yes that's what she says and um that's pretty great oak tree what do you think i'm thinking like at least if it were like an apple tree, she could get something back. Yes.

I would love to lose out in that relationship. She's into the old tree. Okay. That doesn't make sense to me. I'm trying to see that picture of her. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. You mean the tree or her? I want to make a bush joke, but I'm'm not going to don't i'll just put that

it's serious but you still can't do it yeah i said it that's it that's all i'm gonna say that'll be the new trend all i could think was oh walsh you're you're well you're back do you do you have any thoughts on moynihan and the libertarian calendar yeah oh dear god yeah he's a little like uh skinny jeans trying to pretend he's in a brit pop band yeah nothing but me we're talking about everybody else in the libertarian movement who doesn't deserve to be photographed much less photographed for a calendar i just want david reboy to be on every single uh calendar that's a deep cut. If we can do that. That's all Matt wants. Just one man. Yeah.

Check out the Twitter account. Well, in any event, look, this woman has managed to find love and good for her because it's tough to find it in today's day and age. She said, she said, I was walking a path near the tree

five days a week for the whole winter. I noticed a connection with the tree. I would lie against it. And she went on to talk about how she loves the feeling of being tiny and supported by something so solid. The feeling of not being able to fall. The presence I feel with the tree is what I'm looking for, but that's a fantasy with the person. You can't get that from a person. I'd been craving that rush of erotic energy that comes when you meet a new partner, but that's a fantasy with the person. You can't get that from a person. I've been craving that rush of erotic energy that comes when you meet a new partner. And that's just not

sustainable. Unlike her life with this tree. There's a reason we want to go for picnics and parks and hike in nature. That's the reason you have to go. You have no idea. It's turning you on. That's the thing. I want to have a sandwich. Like on a quilt. That is the last time I take my daughter for a walk in the park. That's it.

We will no longer do that. This woman is a wonderful woman. And if she'd like to hang out under the tree with me, we can figure it out. But I think she might have some slight mental health issues um i think there's something for everyone i think if she wants to date the holly tree she can go lesbo oh that yes um she wants to be codependent she can date the weeping willow um if she wants something more prickly she can go for the pine i mean there are all sorts of Or me. I got questions about settling on the oak. Maple produces some syrup. That's your complaint?

I'm just going to leave it at that. Wow. Why is it when we come on, there's always a trans thing and it just descends into pornography? I apologize to the listeners out there. Megan has lost it. She's on E. She has a mile left. I don't know if she's going to make it. This is what they came for, Moynihan. This is it right here. Guys, always a pleasure. Thank you. They're the best, aren't they? Love them all. Tomorrow, we've got Nancy Grace. Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.