The Megyn Kelly Show - Left's 14th Amendment Fantasies, Novak's Big Victory, and 9/11 Memories, with Alan Dershowitz and Marcellus Wiley | Ep. 624

Episode Date: September 11, 2023

Megyn Kelly begins the show paying tribute to the memory of September 11, George W. Bush’s incredible moments 22 years ago and how they impacted the country, Americans coming together and uniting through the devastation, and more. Then Alan Dershowitz, author of "Get Trump," joins to discuss how some on the left want to use the 14th Amendment to potentially block Trump from the 2024 ballot, whether this issue has any validity, the terrible precedent this sets and whether the Supreme Court will get involved, the New Mexico Governor suspending the Second Amendment after a recent shooting involving children, how her gun order is unconstitutional, staying mentally sharp thanks to a strong enemies list, and more. Then Marcellus Wiley, host of "Never Shut Up," joins to discuss how the press attacked Novak Djokovic refusing to get the COVID vaccine and now how "No-Vax" wins the Moderna-sponsored U.S. Open, removing the Russian flag next to Russian player Daniil Medvedev, 19-year-old Coco Gauff winning the US Open and her message to her haters, former NFL star Michael Oher’s lawsuit against his guardians the Tuohys over the "Blind Side" story, the way some in the press are putting an ignorant racial spin on the story, Trump actually on the campaign trail in Iowa and his reception at the football game, Biden's bizarre ramblings while overseas, Tua's return and the physical and mental toll of football, Wiley’s feel-good moments in his football career, his wife's upcoming "Real Housewives" show, and more.Dershowitz: https://www.amazon.com/Get-Trump-Liberties-Process-Constitutional/dp/1510777814Wiley: https://projecttransition.orgFollow The Megyn Kelly Show on all social platforms: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/MegynKellyTwitter: http://Twitter.com/MegynKellyShowInstagram: http://Instagram.com/MegynKellyShowFacebook: http://Facebook.com/MegynKellyShow Find out more information at: https://www.devilmaycaremedia.com/megynkellyshow

Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations. Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show and happy Monday. It comes every week, we have to get through it. Let's do it together. We've got a great show lined up for you today, but first, first, we do want to acknowledge this day. This day, September 11th, is a hard one for many of our fellow Americans. I feel like it's still a hard one in many ways for yours truly, too. I mean, it doesn't seem like it's been 22 years. Does it? 22 years? I was just listening to our pal Emily Jashinsky over at The Federalist, and she was interviewing a bunch of Federalist employees who were too, too when 9-11 happened. I mean,

it's just, they have no memory of it, right? There's a whole generation that's out there doing great things that has no active memory of it. But the feelings really are so raw for many. 22 years have come and gone since the unfathomable attack on America. It took the lives of nearly 3,000 people and the iconic skyline of New York City changed forever. And so did our national identity. So did part of our soul. When terrorists flew passenger planes into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon and one plane that ended up in a field in Pennsylvania, thanks to the brave passengers on board. Days later, then President George W. Bush stood atop the rubble at ground zero

and delivered this iconic moment. This nation stands with the good people of New York City and New Jersey and Connecticut as we mourn the loss of thousands of our citizens. I can hear you. I can hear you. The rest of the world hears you. And the people who knocked these buildings down will hear all of us soon. USA! USA! USA! USA! That moment is one of the reasons so many of us who took that in live at the time will always have a soft spot in our hearts for President Bush. Notwithstanding the foreign policy debacles that followed, he brought us together at a time when we were ripped right down to our fabric apart.

It didn't matter if you were a Republican, a Democrat, an independent. What mattered back then? We were all Americans. We loved each other. We loved our flag. Our political differences were secondary. The weeks that followed showed the world the best of us, from the first responders who rushed into the danger to the everyday Americans who gave their time and money to help the victims. Just weeks after that terrible day, then President Bush came back to New York City and threw out the first pitch at Yankee Stadium. We wanted to show you the whole thing because it's a moment that could not happen today. That's how it feels. Just feels like this couldn't happen today, given our divided politics. For tonight's

ceremonial first pitch, and please welcome the president of the United States. Thank you, Mr. President. And the crowd went wild. The ace of the pitch coming from the baseball family. And the chants of USA, USA, USA. I remember my husband, Doug, who lost a very good friend on 9-11, had registered for the New York City marathon that year. I don't remember. I met him after. But he tells the story of how he had registered with a bunch of those guys to run the New York City marathon. And it's a lottery system. You may or may not get in. And it was, I think he said, nine days before the marathon. And he got a notice saying he had been accepted. He was the only one amongst their circle of guys who were

all grieving the loss of their friend. So he did it. He put on his sneakers. He wasn't really a runner even, but he decided if he could run eight miles that day that he would do the 26 mile marathon. And he completed it with bloody feet by the end because the people were so inspirational around New York City that day. They held the marathon, notwithstanding 9-11. And the people with their USA signs and their flags cheered on the runners at every turn. They were singing patriotic songs and they were cheering on just a moment in which New York proved our spirits had not been broken. I had just left New York right before 9-11. I'd been living here for years as a lawyer and had moved to Chicago when the actual attack happened. But my license still read 71 Broadway, where I had lived until

a couple months beforehand. One of the planes that hit the Trade Center lost its engine on top of that building that I lived in. And I used to go to the World Trade Center all the time just to read the paper, to get my coffee, to go to the Barnes and Noble there, to go out for a drink on the windows of the world at the top with friends and go dancing sometimes. And so it's personal for anybody who lived in and around New York. It's personal for most Americans. It's one of the reasons that we don't like seeing politicians or anyone else make light of that day or use it for politics in any way. And it's sobriety. It's importance is one of the reasons why we don't particularly love it when our president doesn't bother to show up at one of the memorial sites as is happening with President Biden today.

He's going to be in Alaska instead. This is a day on which we remember those who were lost on that terrible, terrible day 22 years ago. And we reflect on the fact that it's not over. Since 9-11, another 331 FDNY members have succumbed to post 9-11 illnesses. In fact, the greater numbers are much, much higher than that. Most of the families would put it into the thousands. They now say that more have died from cancers caused by working in and around Ground Zero than were killed on the actual day. I mean, it's just absolutely chilling, not to mention those who gave their lives

fighting for the country in Afghanistan and Iraq. We also reflect on this day of what it means to be an American. What does it mean to be an American? The rights that we stand for, the way this country was crafted, the thing that made the terrorists hate us so much, much of which is enshrined in the U.S. Constitution, including the Bill of Rights and declared, of course, in the Declaration of Independence, which preceded it. Those rights are inalienable rights as human beings, are important, they remain important, and they remain what makes America special. We have rights written down and recognized that go unrecognized in most parts of the world. Most parts of the world. You look at what happens

with free speech up in Canada, where Jordan Peterson is undergoing a mandated reeducation course because he made some true comments about biological sex. You look at what's happening over in the UK even on free speech. They don't have what we have. What we have is important. It's worth protecting and it drives other people to hate. It doesn't mean it's not worth standing for. It certainly means it's worth fighting for. And those of us who are alive on 9-11, and I hope to believe even the next generation will never forget why we were attacked that day and the unity we felt as Americans once we were. Millions of Americans earn and use credit card rewards. A few big box retailers want to take those rewards away. That's according to the Electronics Payments Coalition, a sponsor of

today's episode. Rewards you may use on groceries and school supplies, cash back to save on gas and grow small businesses, and travel miles to make memories. Well, the so-called Credit Card Competition Act would eliminate credit card rewards. No more travel miles and no more cash back. Visit handsoffmyrewards.com to learn more. And if you want to help them, tell your legislator to stand up to the retail giants and to support consumers and small businesses. Joining me now, Alan Dershowitz, author of the increasingly relevant book, Get Trump. Alan, thank you for being here. Well, thank you. Somebody who loves the Constitution just as much as any American I know on the meaning of this day. Well, two thoughts. One, I was about to teach my class

of first year students when the planes hit and the school decided to cancel classes. I wrote a note to each of my students saying, no, my class is not canceled. Come, we'll talk about it. Let's talk together about it. I had TVs brought into the classroom. These were kids, many of whom were away from home for the first time. I didn't want them to be alone in their dorms, and I wanted them to be surrounded by other people. That's one thought. The second thought is Yankee Stadium. Today, you can't even hear the song God Bless America sung by Kate Smith, one of the most uniting themes ever written.

But Yankee Stadium won't play that song because Kate Smith was accused of having sung a song that people disapproved of back when she was a child. And the third point, you about, free speech and how there's less free speech in Canada and England, just come to Harvard University, which has been ranked the lowest university in the entire United States in terms of free speech. Shame, shame on Harvard for not understanding the spirit of freedom of speech as reflected in our First Amendment. Yes, I saw that. Harvard literally, I think, last just absolutely dreadful scores when it comes to free speech and defending at Harvard University of all institutions. You know, Alan, I went with my family, my husband and my kids to the U.S. Open finals last night, the men's finals.

It was absolutely great. It was men's finals. It was absolutely, it was, it was, it was wonderful. And, um, and I'll get into it a little bit more. Marcellus Wiley's here and he was a professional football player. I realized different sport, even I know that. Um, but one of the things that jumped out at me was it opened, you know, this is the event. The men's finals is the event. It opened without the national Anthem. Here we are right. You know, in is the event. The men's finals is the event. It opened without the national anthem. Here we are, right? You know, in New York, in the heart of America, and they opened with a combination. It was like a medley of phrases from America, the beautiful and lift every voice and sing, which has become known as the black national Anthem. So the Black National Anthem got play as we're surrounded everywhere by reminders of 50 years

of equal pay for equal performance or basically equal prize money for men and women. Okay, okay, fine. That's one thing. But everywhere we're getting reminded of that. But nothing about America, because I guess we're not allowed to celebrate us and what we stand for by playing the national anthem. There wasn't the moment where we put your hand on your heart. I thought that's what we were doing. Everybody stood.

I put my hand on my heart, told my kids to do it. And then they launch into the black national anthem. I'm like, all right, I guess we have to go through this in order to get to the actual national anthem that unites us all. Black, white, left, right. No, they never played it the night before 9-11 in New York. That would have been unfathomable just 10 years ago. It's too controversial. The national anthem is too controversial. I was thrilled to see the flag unfolded. I thought they might have an issue with that as well. And kneeling. Look, every American has the right to protest

individually, but organizations like the Tennis Association ought to be playing the national anthem. The national anthem is the national song, the song that's supposed to unite us, whether it's around tennis or around politics or anything else. We're a deeply, deeply divided country. And the divisions are getting deeper and deeper. And I fear for our country. I fear for our country. I fear that too few Americans today support the Bill of Rights. It's the Bill of Rights for me, but not for thee. Some focus on the Second Amendment, but not the First. Some focus on the First Amendment if it's speech that you support, but not if you don't support it. We are losing our consensus around the great, great history and ideology of this country that makes us the greatest country in the world and makes us the target of attacks like 9-11. So we can never forget 9-11. And I'm so glad you opened your show with a commemoration of that important day in our history.

Oh, my gosh. I mean, who could forget it? And I do, like, I understand we're 22 years out. I personally thought it was sad when MSNBC stopped running its Day of Remembrance. They used to run the live coverage that had happened on the Today Show every 9-11. And it would take generations like the ones I just mentioned, you know, these young kids who weren't even born then or who are two years old back and show you how it unfolded. And there's no substitute for that. Then they got accused of like fear or death porn by the left slate and others started writing articles about how they should stop doing

that. It was demonizing, uh, you know, the bad guys. It was just absolutely insane. So now they, they don't do that anymore. Um, and we're at the point now where the U S president doesn't feel the need to be at any of the locations, not Shanksville, uh, Pennsylvania, not the Pentagon, not New York city and Ground Zero. They dispatched Kamala Harris. But the sitting commander in chief isn't even here. I don't I mean, I don't know that I want to see him, Alan, but symbolically you use I mean, that would have been, again, unthinkable. Well, I would like to see him there. He's my president. He stands for the United States. In that respect, he is like the

national anthem. And he should be present at events to unite the country. I voted for him in the hope that he would bring the country together and unite us at a time of great division. And frankly, I have been disappointed. And that's what he said he would do. I mean, that is actually what he promised he would do at his inaugural address. I know a lot of politicians use that word, you know, unity used loosely and they don't ever plan on living up to it. But man, it was like the theme of his address. And we've gone a very different way, which leads me to the topic of today, the first substantive topic, which is that constitution, that pesky constitution we were discussing in the Bill of Rights and how some now on the left want to use it,

the 14th Amendment in particular, to stop, I mean, some half of the country from getting the candidate on the ballot that they seem to prefer. I mean, Trump is overwhelmingly leading in his battle to become the Republican nominee. And now the last ditch effort seems to be get him off of there by using the 14th Amendment to say you can't run for president. You can't even run. You can't be president if you engaged in an insurrection or provided aid to someone who did. I know you don't believe in this. I've listened. I love the Dershow. I listen to it all the time. But explain for the listening audience that isn't up to speed

how they are using the 14th Amendment here to make this argument. Well, it's an effort to disenfranchise not only Americans who want to vote for Donald Trump. I insist on the right to vote against him for the third time. That's an important right, too. I want Donald Trump defeated on the merits in a fair and open election. I don't want him disqualified. First of all, the 14th Amendment was designed to prevent people who fought in the Civil War from assuming office, by the way, not only the presidency, but mayor, city council, any position under state, federal, or city law. And it doesn't only apply to people running. It applies for people sitting in office. So it's a way of circumventing even

the impeachment provision. You could use it against President Biden and say that there was an insurrection by him opening the borders in the South. And Professor Lawrence Tribe, who has been pushing this so hard, he says it's self-enforcing. You don't need a Supreme Court decision. You don't need a district court decision. You don't need an accusation. You don't need a conviction. All you need is Lawrence Tribe to say, I think it was an insurrection, and therefore he can't run. If he can persuade secretaries of state, some of which are elected, some of which are appointed, some of whom are Republicans, some of whom are Democrat, if he can persuade enough

of them to take him off the ballot, it's the end of democracy for the 2024 election. It means that people don't get to vote for and against those candidates who the majority of the people in primaries have decided to put on the ballot. It's the most undemocratic, anti-American tactic for getting Trump. You know, I wrote a book called Get Trump. Every effort has been made to get Trump. They're bringing criminal prosecution, some of which are stronger than others. New York is the weakest. The Florida perhaps is the strongest. That's different because there at least there's a due process, a judicial safeguard. But this 14th Amendment thing, self-enforcing, it means anybody can take anybody off a ballot if they think they engaged in an insurrection such as might have occurred after the George Floyd killing in parts of the West when there were

attempts to take over federal buildings and state buildings and damage to property. Who knows what an insurrection rebellion is outside of the context of the Civil War? We knew it back then, but today it's become a metaphor for protests you don't approve of, not for protests you approve of. It's so. Just in case you think just lest our audience think this is just some dream of some liberal law professors. It's not. There's a push underway in several swing states right now to get the secretaries of state to remove Trump from the ballot to make sure he cannot appear on the ballot. In Arizona, the secretary of state, a Democrat, said he doesn't have the authority to bar Trump from the ballot to make sure he cannot appear on the ballot. In Arizona, the secretary of state, a Democrat, said he doesn't have the authority to bar Trump from the ballot, but the question about Trump's eligibility is not settled, so leaving the door open. In Michigan, the Democratic

secretary of state recently said there are valid legal arguments being made for keeping the former president off the ballot and that it's something that they're discussing. She is discussing right now with election officials in other states. There are pushes underway in Georgia, in New Hampshire, in Colorado. In Colorado, they filed a lawsuit. That's another way of going about getting this to happen. Challenging whether he has the right to stay on the ballot by this left wing group. That case that was just filed in a state court was removed to federal court by team Trump saying this, this is a federal issue and ought to be decided in a federal court. So we'll see how that plays out, but they're active, active pushes underway in, of course,

the critical swing States. That's, those are the ones that really matter to keep him off the ballot. This could cost him the election, no matter whether he defeats all of the criminal cases against him, Alan. Well, it's not a matter of keeping him off the ballot and denying him the right to be president. What's most important is denying us the right to determine who the next president is and leaving it to a bunch of elitist law professors, secretaries of state and judges. Those are not the people who the Constitution allocated the responsibility for electing the president. It's voters and the electoral college. If you want to change that, if you want to change our system into a system where judges make that decision as secretaries of state, amend the Constitution. But under the current

Constitution, we get to decide who the next president is. And it's not up to some interpretation of the 14th Amendment. The 14th Amendment was so clearly designed to apply to people who fought in the Civil War in the South. And that's why it was self-enforcing, because everybody knew who fought for the South. They were proud of it. They were going around in their Confederate uniforms. They were forming organizations like Daughters of the Confederacy, Sons of the Confederacy. They were celebrating the Confederacy. Nobody was denying that they fought in the Confederacy. That's why it was self-enforcing. But beyond that limited use, if you take it now to 2024, how do we determine what's an insurrection? It can't be decided by secretaries of state.

There has to be a process. Right. If they think this, I mean, seriously, if they think this, that it's self-executing and once you engage in what an quote, an insurrection, which in their definition means challenging the election results, uh, refusing to accept that one has lost when one has lost. Cause again, Trump is not the one who stormed the Capitol. He did not do that. What he did was try to challenge election results in every way, shape and form he could think of. Then then I guess President Kennedy engaged in an insurrection where he had the alternate slates of electors for Hawaii. Stacey Abrams, who they ran again in Georgia. She never should have been allowed to run again for office. And yet I'll

tee it up for you, Alan. Here is your old pal, Lawrence Tribe, professor at Harvard. Alan and Tribe do not like each other. And Judge Michael Ludig, who is a conservative justice, or judge, who a lot of lefties are very now excited about because he's from the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals, or that's where he's at. And he's from the fourth circuit court of appeals or that's where he sat and he's taking the same position but don't forget don't forget just because you're a more conservative justice or person doesn't mean you don't hate trump okay doesn't mean you wouldn't do everything in your power to get him here they are together talking about this scheme the original meaning of section three disqualifies the former president from ever holding the presidency again. The disqualification clause operates all by itself.

This clause says that no one who did what Donald J. Trump obviously did, and he doesn't really deny it. He plays games with what we call it, but he doesn't deny. Well, in the first instance, it is the officials who decide whether his name can be put in nomination. Usually, it is the Secretary of State who must make that call. But whichever way a Secretary of State goes, that case will go to court. And because the issue is so momentous, it will end up in the Supreme Court of the United States. But I should I shouldn't I shouldn't give you the floor, but I should I should not impute hatred to Michael Ludwig. I have no idea how he feels about Trump. I just as people are sort of like, well, he's a conservative. It's like, well, you do have to dig a little bit deeper when it comes to Trump to figure out somebody's political positioning.

Go ahead. But the irony is that they claim the secretary of state decides who's on the ballot. Of course, that's not the law. The people decide who's on the ballot. The secretary of state performs the administrative function. That's exactly the argument that Trump was trying to make with Vice President Pence. He was saying the vice president decides how the electoral vote should be counted. And the same Ludics and Tribe said that's an insurrection, getting the vice president to play a role as to the counting of the votes. And decides who's on the ballot. No, primaries decide who's on the ballot. Delegates decide who's on the ballot. We have a process for deciding who's on the ballot. the same as saying the vice president decides how the electoral vote should be counted. They're both interesting to lack of democracy. That's interesting. Um, the, what he said, what tribes said there at the end is not wrong. It's going to go through the courts one way or the other.

It's starting to, as I mentioned in Colorado, and that means ultimately it's likely to wind up before the U S Supreme court, which is now 6-3 conservatives versus non. Does that tell us anything? in trying to get Trump are conservatives, members of the Federalist Society, who also believe in manipulating the Constitution to satisfy their own ideology. Their ideology may be different. Tribes may be different from Ludic's, but they both are prepared to manipulate the Constitution to achieve their desired result of getting Trump off the ballot. Now, remember, the Supreme Court has generally introduced the concept called the political question, where they don't get involved in issues like this. Now, in this case, they're going to have to get involved. But, you know, you talked about some of the people like

Stacey Abrams who would be disqualified. Under Tribe's rationale, Tribe and I would be disqualified. We together were on the side of challenging the 2000 election. He was Al Gore's lawyer. I was the lawyer for the citizens of Palm Beach County who had been victimized by the butterfly ballot. You remember what happened there? Thousands of Jews accidentally voted for the most anti-Semitic president ever to run, Pat Buchanan, because they were trying to vote for

Joe Lieberman, but the hole for his name, you don't vote for vice president, but under the butterfly ballot, the hole next to his name was the hole that you punched for Pat Buchanan. And so there were hundreds and hundreds of people who voted by mistake, didn't cast their vote for Al Gore. And I was bringing that case. I was in federal court standing right next to Lawrence Tribe. We were trying to over undo an election. Are we disqualified? I'm not running and neither is Tribe.

But do we come within the prohibition of the 14th Amendment? Of course not. We were pursuing legal remedies, as was Trump and his lawyers, many of whom are now under indictment for pursuing legal remedies, going too far, perhaps. But that's a question that ultimately will be decided by the courts in individual cases. But the idea of disqualifying a presidential candidate, the leading presidential candidate. You know, on my show, The Dershow, I award bananas. And when this happened, it got up to six bananas on a scale of 10. If, in fact, President Trump is disqualified, we become very close to a banana republic. Now, we're not putting people on planes and blowing them up like Putin. We're not doing

what happened in Ecuador and killing a man who's running for president. But when you disqualify a person from running for president who's the leading candidate, you're up to eight bananas on a scale of 10. And no American wants to be in that situation. Let's let's talk about it. Let me let me ask you about the Supreme Court where, yeah, I think this is obviously going to have to land there as the legal challenges make their way through. Not, you know, keeping keeping the leading GOP candidate off the ballots is going to be a problem legally and otherwise. The one the one thing that I would say the other side has

is, while I agree with you, it's very clearly a civil war era prohibition. It doesn't explicitly say it's limited to that. It doesn't explicitly say that. So they've got some wiggle room there. How weak does that make your side of the argument? Wiggle room is not enough when you're trying to disqualify the leading candidate. It has to be absolutely crystal clear. Now, of course, Tribe says it's crystal clear. Of course it's not. The same 14th Amendment does talk about enslaved people, talking about paying for states that left the union. It was so clearly designed. The framers clearly did not intend it to be a way of undoing impeachment. Impeachment is so hard to achieve, you need two-thirds in the Senate. The 25th Amendment is even harder to achieve,

and according to the tribe Ludig Lunacy, this provision now can substitute for impeachment. If you can show, if you can claim that somebody who's now sitting in office engaged in those activities defined in the 14th Amendment, then you can use the 14th Amendment to get them out of office without going through the rigors of the impeachment or the 25th Amendment. If you want to disqualify somebody from running, you're going to have to have due process, procedures, a clear method, a methodology. Who decides? Who evaluates? What's the criteria? Truth beyond a reasonable doubt. Truth by preponderance. None of it's there.

All of that or things like it are in the impeachment provisions and in the 25th Amendment. So it's bizarre to think that this was designed to be a substitute for impeachment or this 25th amendment like a secret yeah like a secret back door you can get you can get this candidate barred from ever running from office again if you convict him in an impeachment proceeding or secret option number two if you can convince a judge or a secretary of state that he engaged in insurrection undefined by undefinedined by the 14th amendment. And so it's what the secretary of state who's going to decide that it looks like an insurrection to me, guilty. He's off. All right. I've got to get this other story in while I have you. Uh, and that is this new Mexico, uh, governor who is very upset because

there's been a rash of shootings in new Mexico. I get it. It upsets all of us and including one involving an 11 year old boy who appears to have been killed during the midst of some sort of I don't know if it was gang violence, but it was a road rage incident where I'll just because none of the news reports is talking about what happened. It was driving me nuts as a mother, 11 year old boy. He was that his family was leaving a baseball stadium after a, after a game road rage incident. I was certainly not suggesting he was in a gang. I'm like wondering who would have, who unleashed this hell on him? Were they in a gang or whether what, what would they do? Because they made the car in which the child was riding, made a U-turn in front of the suspect's vehicle.

And then that suspect got out and fired 17 shots at the family's car. I mean, that's just absolute lunacy. The boy was killed and there hasn't yet been an arrest. Absolutely awful. It's not the only incident in New Mexico. But this this Democratic governor, as horrified as she was, I would submit had absolutely no right to do what she did, which was essentially to suspend the U.S. Constitution, including the Second Amendment, because she says it's an emergency and she really, really doesn't want the guns in New Mexico, concealed carry or open carry. It's any gun unless you're a law enforcement officer or security officer. So people who are legitimate gun owners and have licenses to carry guns in New Mexico are now under her emergency order, no longer allowed to carry them inside their cars, inside

their pants, inside their homes, potentially. Here's how she put it when she was being pressed by a reporter on whether this was OK to do. You took an oath to the Constitution. Isn't it unconstitutional to say you cannot exercise your carry license? With one exception, and that is if there's an emergency and I've declared an emergency for a temporary amount of time, I can invoke additional powers. No constitutional right, in my view, including my oath, is intended to be absolute. There are restrictions on free speech. There are restrictions on my freedoms. So just two things there, Alan, whether she has the right to do this because you know no

constitutional right is absolute and the second admission that she doesn't see her oath of office as absolute well obviously she is doing something that many people will approve of if i were at the constitutional convention or the bill of rights convention I would not have voted for the Second Amendment. I'm not in favor of there being a constitutional right to bear arms. We're one of the very few countries in the world that have that. But it's in the Constitution. And you can't suspend the First Amendment or the Second Amendment because of emergencies. We tried to do that in the past during the Second World War.

They suspended the right of Japanese Americans to live on the West Coast and put them in detention centers that she has no right to suspend it. She has the right to seek a constitutional amendment. You know, you can interpret the Second Amendment. And after all, it does say it starts with a statement about the need for militias, well-regulated militias. You can make the argument that guns can be well-regulated under the Second Amendment. That argument is made in the Supreme Court. But you cannot simply suspend completely the right any more than you could suspend the right of freedom of speech. She's right that freedom of speech is not absolute.

But no governor can say there's an emergency. We now suspend all of free speech rights. We close newspapers. We close the media. That's what they do in repressive regimes. So if you suspend the Second Amendment today, you then have the power to suspend the First Amendment, the Fourth Amendment, and the Fifth Amendment. And this was all part of the same thing. This was part of the effort to try to use the Constitution in a manipulative way to get your policy results you want, whether it's to get guns off the street, which is desirable, whether it's to stop Donald Trump from running, which many people would find desirable, whether it's obtaining 110,000 American citizens of Japanese origin in detention centers. None of them are permissible under the Constitution.

The Constitution was designed for dangerous times. That's why it's lasted longer than any constitution in the history of the world. And it's under attack largely from the left today. I grew up today during McCarthyism when it was under attack by from the left today. I grew up today during, I grew up during McCarthyism when it was under attack by the right. That's why I'm writing a new book actually called The New McCarthyism, why the woke version is even more dangerous than the original version, because it represents the future. The people who are calling for these suspensions of the Constitution are the young people who will become our leaders in the next 10, 20, 30 years.

That's why it's so dangerous. We have to fight it, whether it's the Second Amendment or the First Amendment. I got to ask you one parting question. Please forgive this question. This is considered rude, but I've heard you talk about your age openly. Are you almost 85 now? I am over 85. I had my birthday last week and the same weekend that my daughter got married. And so I'm you know, I'm an 85 year old who's still fighting back. And happy birthday. The reason I raise it is I always reference you, Alan, when people talk about how it's ageist to raise questions about President Biden's mental state. And I always say it's not about his age. You know, Trump's only three years younger. People don't have these concerns about Trump. Not most people don't. But look at you,

85 years old, sharp as a tack. Every once in a while I hear you complain if you cough, you know, it's tough getting old. That's the extent of it, of what I hear from you. Is there a secret to staying as sharp as Alan Dershowitz into our mid 80s? Like what can the rest of us do? It's great. It's having a terrific enemies list. Having being a great I'm gonna live forever. Abigail Biden, you'll never die. People who you really thrive on on responding to and you know, I'm very active and want to continue to be active in defending the Constitution. It needs defense more than ever. Look, I regret having retired

from Harvard. Harvard did not have the number, the least, the lowest ranking of any university in the country when I was there, because I was fighting back every day against the administration. But a few of us who have been older have retired and left. And now it's up to a group of people called the Council on Academic Freedom. Imagine Harvard needs to have a Council on Academic Freedom, which contains only a minority of its faculty, to try to preserve academic freedom. Harvard is the future. And the people who are students there are our future leaders. And they believe in free speech for me. No, it's ridiculous. But wait, I need more practical tips. So get an enemies list. Do not retire early. Was there like two hours of aerobic activity a day? Is there some magic diet?

Is there anything else you can give us for our list? I try to walk five miles a day if I can, but not, I made the mistake of trying to walk. I did walk six miles the other day in 90 degree heat. That was not a good thing to do. So I'm off walking in the great heat, but I love to exercise. And look, having a wonderful wife and a wonderful family and supportive friends and relatives is evils to be trying to be directed against. And I'm in the middle of the fight, and I thrive on it. Well, thank goodness for it. And now the way you phrase it, thank goodness we have some enemies and some fights to be fought. Alan, thank you so much.

All the best to you, Professor. Thank you. All right, team. Note to selves. Let's send Alan a birthday gift. We forgot all about his B-Day. That's a big one. Eighty five. And you look, it's not ageist, right? Well, you wouldn't you vote for Alan Dershowitz? I mean, you probably like his politics, but even if you didn't like his politics, you wouldn't look at him and say he's too old. He's like on fire. He's sharper than most of us. It's not about age. It's about

what our eyes and our ears show us when we look at somebody like Biden or die, fi, et cetera. Okay. Up next, Marcellus Wiley's here. Looking forward to talking to him. He was on back in March. We had a great convo, but it was too short. Today we resume. It was a huge weekend in the sports world. As I mentioned a minute ago, my family and I attended the U.S. Open, the men's finals. It was absolutely thrilling. Plus, football's back. And for the 2024 Republican presidential candidates, that means there was only one place to be, the Iowa, Iowa State College football game. Hello, they're not stupid. They understand where to go in advance of the First in the Nation caucus. We're going to get to all of that and much more today with Marcellus Wiley,

former NFL All-Pro, founder of Project Transition Foundation, and host of Brinks TV and YouTube's Never Shut Up. And Marcellus' wife is going to be part of the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, which is also exciting because I enjoy that show. Marcellus, great to see you. How are you? I'm doing great, Megan. How's it going? I think you need to leave with the end now because the Housewives is going to take care of everything I've ever done.

This is going to bring back Beverly Hills. I migrated over to Miami, which I happen to think is the greatest show ever made in the history of mankind. But I'm going to go back to Beverly Hills now. I know their season hasn't yet released. It's coming out soon. It's featuring your own wife. So are you in it? Did you get sucked into this? Yeah, I got sucked into it, man. We're a tandem. We're a tag team. So it just happened earlier this year, unofficially. Basically, they gave us a call and wanted to gauge our interests. My wife, knowing who she is and how multidimensional she is, and she's a mother. She's also a CRNA.

She has tremendous personality and is a huge athlete in terms of her workout regimen. Wakes up at 4 30 every day still has a six pack three kids later so i was like baby i think the world needs to see how great you are because i see it every day okay here's why i'm worried i'm going to show you in one soundbite why i'm scared for her watch let me tell you something don't touch my husband just say don't you ever you don't talk out for everybody to know. You better watch what you talk about me or everybody will know. You never go near my husband.

Everybody will know. You never go after my brother. What you don't want. Do not put your finger in my face. You're gonna get my finger in your face, too. I can't. Okay, okay. Don't threaten me.

Listen, listen. No, no, no. No, no. Stop it. Enough. You're a pig. Okay, enough. No one is touching anyone in this house.

No one is touching anyone. There will be no touching. Listen, we're from Beverly Hills. We live our life. We do our thing. We don't, you know, you just do it. No, I'm not. I'm putting the trailer on.

Don't forget. Listen. We don't. For Anne-Marie. She's going to the lion's den. Yeah, well, you know, I played in the NFL for a decade. And every day in that locker room was making that clip look tame. So I'm certainly used to it. She has to grow that

muscle. I will say that. That's a whole different muscle to be in those situations, know how to navigate between the drama that is present and then you being a calming force, but not a boring person, right? So we have a lot of conversations privately about how she's going to navigate that, but you got to be authentic. You got to be yourself, man. I've been through so much hell in my life, man. Nothing these ladies from Beverly Hills are going to ever throw me

that's going to throw me off my game. Well, that is the greatest sin on the Housewives series is to be the boring one. I have no doubt she will not be because, I mean, if nothing else, it seems like I don't know anything about her politics, but if she sounds like you do at all on any issues, because you like look at your shirt for the listening audience, he has a shirt on that reads facts are greater than feelings,

like the greater than sign facts over feelings. Even that is considered subversive in today's day and age. So if she says anything that sounds like you, Marcellus, she's going to be the biggest shit stirrer among them. Oh, absolutely. And it's already some reports of some of the things I've said. She agrees with some of them. We're not the same person. So obviously we will diverge on some issues. But yeah, we're together for a reason. So she has a lot of ammunition, a lot of experience and is not scared to speak her mind. So in a world that is trying to pervert everything you say and always wants you to just pick a side and doesn't want to hear the nuance.

She's going to represent the Wiley's pretty well. I look forward to seeing how they edit it and then see how it comes out. Yes, exactly. That's right. I have one other question on this. Before you go on a show like this, do you have a sit down about the rules? This is what you're allowed to disclose about our marriage and what you're not. You know, you sound like her. She came to me and it was like this summit meeting. She was like, okay, baby, we got to be on the same page. We got to be the same alignment. Let's talk through this. I was like, well, I only got one rule, be yourself. And then everything else comes from that that but i will say that she has been smart and strategic in terms of what does she want out there and obviously no one is going to show their entire life like it's not even set up for

that uh but we are being real we are being who we are it's just you don't want everything out for the full public's display because we do have little kids here. Uh, we still have a family obviously that we're in love with. So we don't want everyone to go through the ringer like we have to. Yes. I will tell you that one of the things that's great about Miami, I mean, this is like now two seasons ago, so I, I won't give you too much of a spoiler, but there's this dirtbag husband. He's married to one of the gals and he forgets that he has his mic on. He's mic'd up for the show and he forgets and on the open mic, but he's off cam. But you can hear him.

And the real house of Bravo is not stupid. Yeah, they played it. He's talking about how he's going to leave the wife and he's got somebody on the side and he's so to leave the wife and he's got somebody on the side and he's so into this other woman. It's like, oh my God, after you've just watched his wife for a season, clearly desperate to get her husband's attention, clearly sensing something's wrong. He denies, denies, denies. And then we hear, this is why it's, I'm sorry. I got to tell you, Marie, this is right now. Miami's number one. She shouldn't do any of this stuff to make it number one. Beverly Hills. It's like the high bar. It's right. It's

like, oh, God, if you're just going to be a normal, great human ambassador for society, boring. If you're going to stir it up. OK, now we got something going. Pompoms for you. I get it. All right. So I'm going to squeeze in a break, but I'm going to come back. We have to talk about the U.S. Open. Novak Djokovic coming back after being banned because he refused to get the vaccine with a I mean, to mix the sports, spike the ball in the end zone moment. We'll talk about some of the woke displays that I saw there and then what's happening in football, too. Also, there's an update in the blindside case with Michael Orr suing the Tooheys, claiming that they lied to him about his adoption status.

We'll bring that to you, and Marcellus may have some thoughts on that, too, as a football player himself. Stay with us, folks, and don't forget, you can find The Megyn Kelly Show live on Sirius XM Triumph Channel 111 every weekday at noon east. The full video show and clips by subscribing to our YouTube channel, youtube.com slash Megyn Kelly. If you prefer to get your news via an audio podcast, follow and download on Apple, Spotify, Pandora, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts. And if you're listening to us via audio and you have forgotten to hit that follow button, could you just do it? Do it now. That would be awesome. We would love to have that kind of, you know, go steady relationship with you.

And there you'll find our full archives with more than 600 shows now. So let's talk a little sports. On a rare occasion, I actually do delve into them. And this weekend was one of those occasions where we went as a family to the U.S. Open men's finals. And I mean, every like the tennis is definitely woke. It is woke. It's like it was all about Billie Jean King and equal pay and like all the messaging and Moderna signs everywhere, which not you don't have to be woke to be pro Moderna. But it was a little in your face with the Moderna messaging. It's like, you know what? A lot of people, including yours, truly have had bad experiences with the vaccines. And I don't need to look at it all over the place. I'm just trying to watch a tennis match. But OK, then we go out. They don't

sing the national anthem, which I talked about with Dershowitz. It's apparently the day before 9-11. They thought maybe we'll skip the national anthem. Instead, we got lift every voice and sings. We got sort of the so-called black national anthem, but not the actual national anthem. Instead, we got lift every voice and sings. We got sort of the so-called black national anthem, but not the actual national anthem. All right. And then we had this amazing tennis match between Novak Djokovic of Serbia and Daniil Medvedev of Russia. And he was the third. He was one of three Russians who made it into the finals. If you count the all the singles and the doubles finals, men and women and what they've done, Marcel, as you've probably seen this for the past since the Ukrainian conflict, is they've blanked out the little Russian flag. So you see the Serbian flag next to Novak, and then you don't see anything. You just see a gray triangle next to the Russian players. I'm sorry, it's ridiculous. Medvedev did not cause

the invasion of Ukraine. I'm sure he's got a lot of family and friends there who he loves and remembers. That's where he got his dart in tennis. Why are we trying to pretend the Russian people themselves, including this tennis player, are to blame and that the blanking out of this flag means anything at all. Yeah, it's hilarious that you bring this up because I'm watching the U.S. Open all the way through. We're not big tennis fans, but certainly get riled up for the big majors. And my wife looked and she said, what country is he representing? And she saw the little gray square at the bottom. I said, I think Transylvania, the way that they're trying to depict it. They literally just blanked him out like he's Dracula

or something. I don't know what this is. But if you really want to go down that lane, down that hole, the whole representation conversation and what we call woke right now is really an attempt to keep people controlled, keep the status quo, let the haves and have nots continue to widen in the divide, which allows those in power to even have more power. And for anyone who gets into these conversations and doesn't think with that mindset perspective, usually you'll get sabotaged and usually you'll get suckered into it. We're trying to really leave complex thought out of all these conversations and representations just so it could be simplified. Are you left or right. Right. Democrat, Republican. And because they simplify it, it forces you to make a blanket decision that really doesn't encompass all things that you need to respect. Like this guy did not invade any country. So this is a sad state of affairs for those who speak the truth, those who look for the truth, look like the outliers, look like, I hope they have the same compass that I was given to navigate through this BS.

And if not, they'll get lost in the sauce like so many people are. Well, they're going to have it. They're going to have it because I'm sure you talk to them about it. I mean, that's our kids were there. Our kids were definitely rooting for Djokovic. And I was rooting for Djokovic to some extent, too. But I was kind of in a position where I was like, I can't lose. Cause I would be happy to see either one of these guys win. And one of the reasons why I liked Medvedev is because nobody was cheering for him, not nobody, but the crowd is clearly with Novak and I felt bad for him. Like, yes, he's been a little spicy, but so is Novak. I mean, they both can sort of, in the John McEnroe-esque way

of kind of getting in somebody's face if they don't like what the crowd's doing or what the ump is doing. They're not shy, which I also like, but there's really, I think, one main reason to dislike Medvedev, and that is he's from Russia. And there's, again,

there's really no reason to hold that against the guy. So I was sure to clap for him whenever he got a good point. I kind of felt bad for him that he didn't win. But I was thrilled to see the GOAT. I think it's clear Novak is the GOAT. And one of the reasons that many of us were rooting for him is because he, too, got backlash and bounced out of the U.S. Open and the Australian Open last year because he refused to get the Vax. They were calling him Aaron Rodgers of your world. NFL World was there. I would say what team he's for, but I don't remember. He just started with the Jets. He's with the Jets. OK. Anyway,

he was with another team before. But anyway, he went he posted Novak's Djokovic, which is kind of fun. Anyway, in an incredibly ironic moment that Clay Travis noticed, he was, Novak, of course, his winning shot, was the shot of the day sponsored by Moderna. Look at this. Look at this. Well, we'll take you to the dirtiest shot of the day. And it was saving the match point

to get to number 24. There were a lot of shots that were highly impactful. Here's the final one. Moderna. I mean, but you know, he was totally vilified.

Totally vilified. It wasn't just your ban from these tournaments. You know, for absolutely no purpose whatsoever. But he was written up as some sort of a demon by many in the press. We thought how gross this is, that this elite athlete who didn't know what consequences there might be to the vaccine refused to get it. Yeah, and that's what's amazing about it.

First of all, we just can't fly over the double down by Moderna. Moderna shot of the day to, it's just hilarious right there. And then, you know what's so crazy about when people want to talk about representation and the openness and tennis especially. How do they fall victim to this other than the capitalism at play? Just take any check that comes. It's a global sport. And I was actually already in a sad state because Carlos Alvarez wasn't in the finals, and that's my guy.

We were privy of watching him against Nadal a few years ago at Indian Wells and was like, he's next. And now he's now, but he obviously didn't make it to the finals. Yeah, it's a robot in disguise. I mean, this guy is locked in when he is playing. I love him to death, but

you see this with the Moderna shot of the day and how we treated Novak when we asked our athletes, we asked people to make a decision, but vilify them for the decisions that they make. So it's really not even an option. It's not open.

It's actually closed. And that's what I don't like when everyone around me tells me to respect everyone. And I'll say, I already do for you to even ask me that. Maybe you're telling on yourself. Maybe this is a projection. And then when you choose something that they don't support, then they come after you. So, you know, me being who I am and some of my stances over the years have been attacked. But people don't understand, I grew up in a gang territory, gang neighborhood where there were Crips and Bloods. And I had to quickly realize that in order to make it out, I couldn't be either. So I'm not going to be forced to ever choose a side. So I know how to get around all of the landmines that these people and in their

ignorance actually put in front of me. So when I look at it on a global scale now and how it's been so incentivized, it's laughable. It's almost childlike to me, taking me to my childhood. Are you going to wear this color? Are you taking me to my childhood. Are you going to wear this color? Are you going to wear this color? You're going to think this way or that way. And if not, you don't support what I support. I try to come and kill you. And that's where we are in this sad state of affairs. I just shake my head and keep speaking my truth. You know, I read something that you had said about growing up in Compton and this gang life that was around you.

It's talking about how you knew the truth because you saw these guys who are so tough out there on the streets. But you also saw the toll it took on them as men when they would come inside the house and occasionally let their guard down. That really stuck out at me because you never think of that piece of it. Yeah, I was able to live through the experiences of I had three uncles, no brothers, just two sisters and three uncles. So those were my big brothers.

And two of them were murdered and one committed suicide, all involved with the street life. What I was able to see through them was the reality of them going outside the house and demanding, commanding power from the streets. They were the man. Everywhere they went, people bowed down to them, scared of them. And I also saw them come in the house and got to see them behind the veil and the pain and the suffering and how they were actually hurting on the inside. That's why hurt people hurt people. So I was already privy to knowing that the only people out there who are really messing with me, who are coming after me, who are making me make this choice are the hurt

people, are to hurt people, are the kids who mom and dad doesn't love them, or they don't feel the love. They have the broken home. They don't have the support system I have. So never be scared of that person, because he's only swinging first because he's scared. So I know that from growing up. And now when I see all of this influx and the attack of propaganda, it feels the same way. And I just look and say, wow, what happened to the world where you can just go be who you are? Sometimes I'm over here. Sometimes I'm over there. But I'm always there and allow people to have their social space.

And, you know, it gets deeper than that. You know, being a black man, sometimes you have to go with the black vote. You got to go with the black stance and et cetera. Being a woman, you got to go with the women's vote, women's stance. And I just sit there and say, can we just listen? Can we just look into what these issues are and then take a deeper dive and talk through it? So how did you manage to avoid that life? How are you as accomplished as you are crushing it in so many different departments, not just professionally, but family too, notwithstanding that kind of a beginning? Yeah, look, it started with an identity and my identity, I think the version I learned, um learned was more helpful than the traditional one.

A lot of times we go up to kids, you know, you've been there before, the third grade class. OK, who wants to be a fireman? Me. Who wants to be a doctor? Me. Who wants to be a football player? All of us. Right. And I think we traditionally learn identity is what you want to be. But I learned identity in a different way. It's not just who you want to be and what you want to be, but who you are not. And I had to learn to find out quickly who I was not, not just who I wanted to be and who I was. So I got to look at the world and focus in and have a narrow view on exactly who I was based on all the things that I would not be. I wasn't going to be a liar. I wasn't going to be a thief. I wasn't going to be a convict.

I wasn't going to be a crook. I wasn't going to be a shyster. All these things. And if you look at this world now, so many people were in pursuit of what they wanted to be. They didn't eliminate a lot of things that they wouldn't be. So they stand for nothing and they fall for everything. And I just think that I was blessed to have both parents in the home that gave me that balancing act. I had a lot of tough love, whether it was from the family or my neighborhood, and surviving that adversity allowed me to thrive in the real world because nothing's tougher than what I've been through. And more importantly, nothing's more complex than just trying to get home every single day,

using up your mental space just to navigate the BS of a daily trial growing up in Compton and South Central. So I use a lot of what I've been through to give me the strength, but also give me the clarity to see things as they come my way. Wow. I mean, what a testament to your own resilience. Before we move off of the U.S. Open and actually parlay the story you just told me into what's happening with Michael Orr, who also had a difficult background, but then made it thanks to football and some other intervening factors. I got to spend a moment on Coco golf at the U S open. She's America's sweetheart. She won the whole thing. Yay. Go Coco and go team America. She's only 19 years old. We Al Alcaraz is only 20,

but he's not American. So I'm just going to take a moment for Coco. She wins. She gets out there. This is a sweet moment where she talks about her dad. She was there at the U.S. Open just like eight years ago as an observer watching Serena and Venus. But listen to this. It's soundbite 11. Today was the first time I've ever seen my dad cry. He doesn't want me to tell you all that. My dad took me to this tournament sitting right there watching Venus and Serena compete. So it's really incredible to be on this stage. The dad for the listening audience when she's saying he cried is giving her the like, no, be quiet, like cut the neck moment, you know, with the fake hand. That was so sweet. It's so great just to see a nice, like celebratory, yes, father, daughter, you know, like family.

You can do it. You can do it. You can believe in it. And then she added something, which is kind of the theme of our show today. Alan Dershowitz says the reason he made it so intellectually fruitful at 85 is because he has a list of enemies. Listen to what Coco Gauff said about the haters. Listen. Honestly, thank you to the people who didn't believe in me. Honestly, to those who thought we're who those who thought we were putting water on my fire, you're really adding gas to it. And now I'm really burning so bright

right now. Ah, that's so great, right? That was just, it was just a nice moment. There's no necessarily political commentary. It's just a feel good moment on a good day. Oh, that's it right there. One thing I've learned is you have to accept all that comes with whatever you want. And that's the good, the bad, the ugly of it. I tell people all the time,

life is not a hundred meter race. Like set, go and just go straight ahead and there's smooth course in front of you. And then you finish. That's not life. If anything, life is more of the one 10 hurdles. That means yes, I'm a run, but whoa, I got to get over this. I got to get over that. I got to get over this. And life just presents adversity to you so it can sharpen you. It sharpens your sword through that adversity. But so many people want to avoid that. And in avoiding that, you actually lose the opportunity to be your greater version. So you got to almost welcome adversity. No one raises their hand to say, let me have a problem today so I can be better tomorrow. But at the same time, when you go through it, you get to it.

And that's what she went through. She went through a lot of down times. And it's full circle for me, too. I wanted a John Elway jersey when I was in 11th grade. $69.99. Costs too much. I said, all right, mama, I get it. We're broke.

We don't have it. I fast forward my first game ever in the nfl is against the denver broncos and instead of a footlocker jersey that i couldn't afford on the field it was the actual seven elway the man himself so seriously so many people yes oh my gosh that's incredible wait he i don't have my football dates in my head, but he was playing in that game? John Elway was still playing and you played against him. That's what you're saying. Yes, I played against him. 1997, first game.

I'm looking like I can't believe Foot Locker came to life. The $69.99 is now priceless. That's him right there. Can't say no to me now, mama. That's the man, John Elway. That's him right there. Can't say no to me now, mama. That's the man, John Elway. That's incredible. I will say there was a moment, the US Open, not yesterday,

but I think the day before they were showing. It was kind of annoying, Marcellus, because I watched that one on TV. It was the Alcaraz match against Medvedev. And my God, they were obsessed with the celebrities in the audience. It was like Charlize Theron, Nicole Kidman, Tom Brady, back to Tom Brady. And then yesterday was some Matthew McConaughey.

I was like, could you just show me the fucking match? Sorry, forget it. I was just like, stop, stop with this celebrity obsession. I don't care about them. Oh, you sound like me. You know, I'm actually fighting this. So this is hilarious to bring this up because it's something stirring in my spirit. And I'm staying strong, but I feel that pressure that hurts.

So I'm a seasoned ticket holder at the L.A. Chargers. I'm a former San Diego Charger. And long story short, I started playing football at eight years young in Englewood across the street for what at the time was the Hollywood Racetrack, which is no longer there. It's SoFi Stadium where the Chargers play, where I used to play for the Chargers. So I'm thinking like my spirit is like, dude, I'm a full circle and you're a season ticket holder. You're the man. But I want to sit in the crowd. Now, every single person that sees me sitting in the crowd like everyone else, they're like, why are you not in the luxury suites?

Why are you not in the box? Why are you not in the owner's suite? Why are you not taking advantage of your celebrity? I'm like, because I want the experience that everyone gets. I don't want the air-conditioned, catered experience. Oh, they're still playing out there. I want to be in there when you jump up excited. Guess what? The beer spilled on me, too. And I'm okay with that. And it's just constant. People always try to give you that celebrity lens

to look at life. And let me give you this, Megan. Yesterday, J.C. Jackson got an interception and literally ran to our section and threw the football up to me. I handed it to my son. And then that moment, it justified me staying out there with everyone else instead of the celebrity suites.

That's awesome. Oh, that's amazing. Yeah, and you want your kids to have that experience too you don't want them to grow up like oh i'm better than everybody i'm so snooty i only go to the luxury box we looked at the luxury box like the main one where the celebs were and half the time because they go into the box and they eat and they drink and then there are the seats right in front of it where they sit and watch the match. Those seats were empty for more than half the final because they were doing exactly what you're saying.

They missed so much of it because they were glad handing back. They're probably asking for selfies instead of actually watching a great match. By the way, on the subject of football. So Tua, that's very dicey to try. Tua has such a long last name. Don't do it. Tagliavola. Tua's back. Tua is back, despite has such a long last taglia Vola. Okay. Two is back to is back.

Despite he was the one who had the terrible concussion and it was shown on tape. And we really wondered whether he should have been playing. Cause he had already had a concussion and you could see him shaking his hands. He's playing again. I don't know. What do you think?

What do you make of it? Because there is a push right now and lots of high schools and middle schools and even Peewee football. Don't put your kid in football. It's too dangerous. Look at guys like Tua. I know we could cite a bunch of other examples. It's dangerous. What do you make of it? Yeah, I got to see Tua yesterday live and in person. He threw that interception that J.C. Jackson threw the ball to me to give to my son. I was Tua there. But, you know, football's done much more for me than I've ever done for the game of football. That said, football hurts every single

day in every single way, whether it's physical, whether it's emotional. It's a game of skill and a greater game of will. You have to fight through everything you earn in football. That's why it's the ultimate team sport, and that's why it's the best sport to translate life through. But it comes with its hardships. It comes with its issues. My son is a football player, a flag football player at eight years old. When he gets to high school, we're going to have a long conversation

if he wants to continue to play football about him playing tackle football. Now, I'm a former football player who at eight years old was playing tackle football, and I would never sign my kids up for that. Different times, different culture, and different understanding of the sport. But I do not go to the extreme of saying I won't allow my kid to play football because I'm going to allow any human being to live out their passions if that's what they desire to do. So once he gets to an age where he can understand the good and bad of what comes from football, because it's tremendous in terms of what it offers you in discipline, work ethic, toughness. But also it comes with its shortcomings. Like you're going to have times where someone hits you and you're going to forget what planet you're on. And,

you know, I'm not going to say to take the good with the bad, but there are far more great things that come from football than the things that it takes away from you. And it's so fun to watch. I mean, my kids were saying we were in Arthur Ashe Stadium. They looked it up. You know, kids love statistics. And they're like, this stadium seats 24,730 people, whatever it was, which was great. And it's actually not so big that it's unmanageable. Like every seat is pretty good. And then we started looking up how many your average NFL stadium seats, it was like 60, 80, 70,000, you know, think of it when my kids couldn't get over there. Like, wait a minute. It's like four times as many people, the thrill of that Marcellus. I mean, that must be so hard to leave it.

And you can see why so many guys chase it. Just there's that and then there's everything else. Yeah, let's talk through that. Like the best moments of football, you never replace them. It's impossible to upstage them, but you can get something comparable. So here's the thing. The best part of football is obviously the locker room, just all these relationships.

Think about this world. And we're getting so far away from this world. I used to love playing football because I didn't have any brothers. So I walk into a locker room. There are 52 other dudes and they're from all parts of the world, not just country. World. And we all look different. Some are short, some are tall, some are fat, some are in shape. And we all have different world views. Some are hunters. Some will go out

there and kill and then eat it. Some of us are city boys, scared of mosquitoes. And we're all in there together bringing our ideas and viewpoints, talking about everything, laughing at all our pain, and then leaving that room and even disagreement for one thing, one goal, one common pursuit. To me, that was like the best world I could ever live in. But the best experiences are simple. You walk out of a locker room, all of you guys,

and you're walking down the tunnel, and it's the cleats, the cleats hitting the concrete of the tunnel, and making that marching band sound like drumline, and just 53 guys in unison going somewhere to hit the turf. And it went from darkness to light. And when the light is there, you hear the crowd roar, and 80,000 people are there at your back in mercy. They're waiting for you to do something to make them erupt. You have total control of that environment based on your performance. You don't find that anywhere else. You find something comparable that gets you excited.

But that passion, that space is only reserved comparable that gets you excited. But that passion, that space is only reserved for that game of football. It's something special. It really is. I mean, we went to a Giants game last year and I felt it just as a spectator sitting there. It's like, this is big. It's huge. And our Giants aren't doing so well this year. So we'll just move on. Maybe we'll go see the Knicks or something. I don't know. It's not looking so good for ourselves. All right. Let's talk about Michael Orr, because I thought of you on this subject.

I remember from the last time you saying when you were growing up in Compton, one of the shows you loved to watch was Different Strokes. I read that in your packet. You loved Different Strokes. I read that in your packet. You love different strokes. And I thought, oh, well, today these lefty writers would say you have a white savior complex because you're not allowed to like different strokes anymore because the white guy adopted the two black kids. And that's why we're not allowed to like the blind side because the white family, I know it's not adopted, but imposed a conservative ship on Michael or the, so this turned into this massive fight and the litigation is ongoing. He's suing the two E's their relationship memorialized in the blind side, just in case folks are not up to speed and saying they didn't actually adopt me. They misrepresented what they were doing with me. Um, I didn't get any of the proceeds of the blind side, the book by Michael Lewis or the, um, movie that became so popular afterwards, starring Sandra Bullock, in which she won an Oscar for portraying Leanne Toohey.

And I want money. I want it. And so now he's just now, he's not backing down because the family hired a legal gunslinger named Marty Singer. And he's saying, this is ridiculous. This guy tried to extort this loving family, said, give me several million,

between five and $8 million or else I'm gonna go public with it. They said, no, we love you. Don't do this to us. You're our third child. He's still pushing it. And the latest was he's demanding now a full accounting of all their money. The Tuohy's money, the money they made off of all these projects, yes. So he's basically trying to, you know, subject them and their finances to the fine tooth comb so he can figure out how much, if any, he's owed. And this as just, it was about two weeks ago, yet another white supremacy piece drops in connection with this whole story. I just want to give you the background because these pieces are coming now fast and furiously in the wake of this story. This is by Elizabeth Spires. It's dated August 26th. And she writes, I have a pretty

good idea why Michael Orr is angry. I'm having a problem seeing up close. I got to put on my readers. I never wear readers, but my eyes bother me. Yeah. So here's my intellectual look. This is what she says. First, she says, the perception of adoption as an act of altruism is exponentially more pronounced when black kids are adopted by white parents. It implies, she says, that black children need to be rescued by white people. And that makes white people feel good about doing it. See, this is what you were going through when you watch Different Strokes. You just didn't know it. This is often referred to as white savior syndrome. The idea that black children are automatically better

off with nice white parents than their own biological parents is just white supremacy. I mean, it's like, well, maybe depends on the circumstance, lady. It depends on the black parent, the white parent. All right. She goes on to say it doesn't always arrive. White supremacy doesn't always arrive wearing a white pointed hood or muttering racial slurs. It's often just a presumption of white benevolence. This is all in the context of the Michael or Tui fight. She writes, nowhere is this more apparent than at schools like Briarcrest. That's where Michael or went when thanks to in part the Tui's, which were founded amid desegregation by people who regarded themselves as nice white parents and who did not want their

children to attend school with black children. She goes on from there talking about how this whole story is an example of white saviorism. The two ought to be ashamed of themselves for trying to help Michael Orr. And she objects big time to Michael Lewis's portrayal of Orr as maybe not the brightest bulb in the entire school, which is one of his complaints. But what do you make of the whole controversy now as history gets rewritten every day? Pure ignorance beyond ignorant. My first pushback is this is something that a lot of people are guilty of late. Like it's really growing in numbers, of this time shift. So what they will use is an aesthetic of today's time, something in the present that looks a certain way.

And then we'll connect it to something that occurred in the past and say, see, this is another example of that, without coloring in the actual content and context that makes those two completely different things. But on the quick lips, hey, it's a black guy got adapted by white people. Then we could go back 50 years when this school didn't even want black kids there. And I'm like, are we doing this again? And let me push back with this. This is my real example. So Different Strokes was my favorite show growing up. What people don't know is that I grew up my grandmother's house in Compton. And we had two patients that we were taking care of. One was a war veteran and one was an older lady, elderly lady who had some mental health issues. Both of them were white. I grew up in a world that is trying to segregation and discrimination. You hear all that. But imagine a kid that is growing up on welfare that's black I never ever bought into white people have something that

I don't have. Matter of fact, when you really pushed me, I said, I know at least two white people that need me for their daily necessities. They count on me. So when you're walking around feeling inferior, if you are, how do you reconcile that with my existence? A welfare black kid in Compton taking care of white people. So that's kind of my foundation. So that made me always have to look deeper in detail to every circumstance. You're never going to catch me with some lazy flyover saying black, white. What do you think? I'm like, I'm not

thinking anything until you tell me something. And that's where we are in this situation. Michael Orr, my first glance at it, I was like, oh, just on timeline, just on the dates, I was skeptical. I was like, Michael Orr, why now? You know, this movie is a decade old. Why now? But then I will give them this. It's okay to ask for full accounting from someone, except why does it have to be antagonistic? Why does it have to be adversarial? Why do you have to combat someone who obviously opened up their heart, their home to you? If anything, if I have any suspicion, I would have done it privately. And I would say, can we just do a full forensic audit? That's it. And you guys would have

never found out about it just for the thanks of taking me in as they did. But I'm not Mike Orr. And this situation doesn't make a lot of sense to me. It's crazy how so many, this is just the one example, but we could have gone down the list and we did when Jason Whitlock was on of the number of writers who have gone with the, the two E's are suspect because they adopted or performed this conservatorship for a black boy. Like we're sick of the white people doing this to, to satisfy their need for white saviorship. We're sick of the success of that movie because white people need to see themselves portrayed as saviors. And as I read

this line in this piece, the idea that black children are automatically better off with white parents than their own biological parents is just white supremacy. No one's saying that they're automatically better off. Who's saying that? In this particular case of Michael or the two is what swooped in and helped him in a way that was really heartwarming. His mother, Jason Whitlock, actually took a deep dive on or his book and then also the blind side. And this was the reporting or his mother was addicted to crack cocaine and birthed a dozen children with a variety of men. She would disappear for days, ingesting cocaine with friends. Her kids as young as 14 months would be left locked out of their apartment. This was a regular pattern. State social workers

eventually intervened or moved from foster home to foster home. So yeah, removal from that particular home was a plus from Michael Orr, irrespective of the skin color, right? But everything's got to be racialized. It's just sad. It's sad how it gets exploited by these people with an agenda. Yeah, with an agenda and no experience. Like, excuse me, my mother's a crack addict. I would take any stable, secure home, black, white, orange.

But now, since it's a narrative, since it's something that we can say in prose instead of experience, now we can now make this look different and re-identify the particulars of this situation. Michael Orr wouldn't have cared where he went long as it was better than at that time. For us to now retroactively redefine that, to me, is absurd. And they do it all the time. They do it so many ways. And it's hilarious because it's really because of the symbolism. It's because of the value system that people have placed on white America, black America,

et cetera. And they don't want to really dive into it. Are white people richer than Black people in general? Yes. Are white people poorer than Black people in numbers? Yes. So people don't, they always switch it on you. It's like, you can't just say white and make me think something, but they want you to. You can't just say Black and make me think something, but they want you to. You can't just say black and make me think something. They want you to. And if you don't stand strong in the details of every one of these circumstances, you'll get washed away in ignorance like that author is. Well said. All right. Stand by much, much more with Marcellus Wiley, who stays with us.

We're going to take a quick break and come right back. My guest today, Marcellus Wiley, host of Never Shut Up. That also happens to be President Trump's philosophy. He comments a lot on his ongoing legal battles and many other things. But he is still running for president, notwithstanding the four indictments and having to deal with that. He's running for president, and you haven't seen him a ton on the campaign trail because he's been busy dealing with all the legal nonsense. But he hit it. He hit it this past weekend. He went out to Iowa, which one must do when running for president and made some fun of it. I mean, I thought this was a good choice. Went to the Iowa Iowa State football game,

as did a bunch of the others. But none of the others had welcomes like president Trump. Here he is. Um, or I think this is the arrival video. Let's see. Um, when he walked in, let's take a look at it. It's crazy for the listening audience. I mean, it's, it's like what, you know, it's a Taylor Swift concert. Trump is in the middle. Everyone's got their phones up just trying to get a snapshot of the man, just a quick snapshot of him. And then inside the stadium, the mainstream wrote this up as like he was booed inside the stadium. I'm like, he was mostly cheered. There was like a smattering of boos.

How would you write this up as mostly booed? But here it is. All right. So there you have it. So what do you make of Trump in Iowa? Because right now he's up almost 30 points over his next competitor. Yeah, hilarious. First of all, how they tried to make that sound and look different than what we actually just witnessed. Everybody that's ever stepped on that field has been cheered and booed. And that's just the way the game goes. So any state have you ever been in,

that's it. It's always a mix, maybe at different levels, but always a mix. Think about Trump. He's going to win Iowa, duh. Think about Trump that I think doesn't get enough attention is that Trump reminds us all of how it all started. This is my summation of Trump and why he's so polarizing. People love him or love to hate him. Nothing in between. And we know a lot of great athletes, Floyd Mayweather comes to mind, that people have fell into that dynamic. Love me or love to hate me. When you're born, you're fearless. Don't believe me? Have kids. Kids don't care. Kids will go anywhere, say anything, do anything until you teach them differently, socialize them as this world will do. Now, the problem is not the kids, some bad teachers out there, some bad parents out there, and I call them out when I see them,

that don't do the necessary job for helping their kids keep that fearlessness, but direct it properly. What Trump is, regardless of politics, is someone that we all can sit back and say is fearless, because he will say exactly what he feels. Now, that gets them in trouble. That gets them all out of sorts at times. But that is a quality we all possess and many have lost sight and grip of. So Trump is always going to get that type of reaction. He's always going to be the guy that shows up. And like you said, is that a Taylor Swift concert or just a presidential hopeful once again going out there just to rally the troops. So I think you got to do the necessary evils of going to Iowa, but there's no way he loses that. And largely it's

because people rally around that spirit in him. Even people who don't like him, they can't stop talking about him. I'm like, okay, last time I checked the things I don't like in this world, I give no energy to. But not you. You just keep talking about them, which creates this driving force a lot more of a headwind. It's so true. So Trump, and by the way, speaking of Trump, just to remind our audience, I'm interviewing him on Wednesday. We'll air it on Thursday right here on The Megyn Kelly Show.

I know. So that'll be fun. First time we've sat down together in seven years looking very much forward to it. But I think that we need to give Joe Biden some credit, too. He, too, says how he actually feels like in the middle

of his overseas trip. I need to go to bed. I'm tired. And I'm what? Look at this bizarre mashup of his little press conference he had while in Vietnam over the weekend. Watch. Let's follow my orders here. Staff, if anybody hasn't spoken, I ain't calling on you. I'm calling. I said I had five questions. He may have a game plan. He just hasn't shared it with me.

But I tell you what, I don't know about you, but I'm going to go to bed. Could you even understand most of that I don't even understand half of what I heard man that is the leader of the free world right there um only thing I take from Joe Biden right now is kind of like when you're in a game and you're playing and you're like ah yeah we're not gonna win this one but i gotta keep fighting because i am on this team but when is this gonna end like you're just like when is this gonna come to it and it's scoreboard watching we call it scoreboard watching like you don't quit you're just not into it as much as you used to be because you know the outcome. Oh, man. It's not even age with Joe Biden.

I think a lot of people hide behind that conveniently. Like, no. As you just said, we had Dershowitz on there. I mean, come on. It's not that. There's something at play here that we just can't put our finger on except he's evaporating right before our very eyes in terms of capacity. And maybe that's clinical. Some could say it's because of his age.

I'll just say, look, it is what it is. What time is this game in so we can get back to balling out and winning championships as a country and as a society? But we got to make sure that the clock goes to zero right now in terms of his presidential tenure. And we're not there just yet. It's so true. What time does this end? When is this over? And yet, yet, you know, the polls between Biden and Trump, the hypothetical matchup are neck and neck. You know, Biden up one, Trump up to Trump up one Biden. You know, Biden up one, Trump up two, Trump up one, Biden. You know, it's it's not like, OK, Trump's running away with it. Or even if you sub out Trump, if you sub in Nikki Haley or Ron

DeSantis, no one's running away with it. Like maybe it's just because we're so divided as a country. You know, we're split down the middle politically and people have their agenda and they really just want a button pusher for their issues on their side. But you would think, take Trump out of it because he is controversial. You would think if you put in generic Republican against, I was going to call on five people. I was going to go to bed. I was going to bed. Bye.

Pony, pony, pusher, whatever. Let me say that the numbers would be totally lopsided. Yeah, you know, the problem is it's like this cocktail party syndrome where you ever go to a party and everyone is sitting in those little huddles. So it's five over here, five over here. We're all drinking. Some of us know each other. We meet new people. And someone says something and you're like, yo, what the hell did they just say? But you're thinking that, but you're not going to say that. I raise my hand. I'm typically the one who says,

hey man, what the hell did you just say? Or excuse me, what? Because we all want to go with the flow and just keep going. And then there's a moment of truth that always occurs when someone says something or someone steps out and says. I challenge that. And you know what always happens when one person challenges that. Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. And then now it starts to snowball. So what happens in this, this is our cycle. We do this. Trump won't get his fair due, whatever that is, until everyone's private in that voting booth, in that ballot box. And now we don't have to talk about it anymore. Just make your vote and do what you do. Watch how it swings in those moments.

But leading up to that moment, people are not going to stop the flow. They want to keep the party going, keep the drinks flowing, not say anything that disturbs what the mainstream is selling. And they're selling a lot of the left. They're selling a lot of the left. They're selling a lot of the principles that Biden is pronouncing. So I see it in my family. I see it in my friend circles.

I'm like, you're literally just saying that because you don't want to resist and say the truth. And they kind of get to that point of shaking their head, like, yeah, you're right. I like the past police resistance. I'm like, but that is leading us to destruction, the bad police resistance. But that's the cycle we can You just brought back traumatic memories because I'm not good at small talk, Marcellus. Like I go to a cocktail party and I hate them. I'm a bad mingler. Like I'm a good long form conversationalist,

but I'm a bad mingler and I feel awkward as hell. And usually I just wind up doing the thing that like I learned from reading bonfire, the vanities by Tom Wolfe is like the least cool, most like abhorred thing there is to do, which is finding your spouse. And I'll talk to my spouse that apparently this is the mark of social death at the car. I didn't know, but it's like, you know, your security blankets and what person, you know, wants to talk to you and Anne-Marie, you're probably the stars of every party. Oh, we talk a lot. Um, she tries to hide me sometimes because I am that icebreaker, but that comes with a sharp point. That means I'm not letting anything just flow. I'm always thinking of the future, my kids. And I'm like, I can't let BS just go.

We got to talk through it, learn or unlearn. But we talk through it. Oh, well, I want to go to one of those parties and talk through it with you. That's why you have to check out Never Shut Up on YouTube. That's where you can find Marcellus. Such a pleasure. Thank you for coming back. Always.

I appreciate you, Megan. I'll see you at one of these small talk cocktail parties soon. Let's do it. You're on. I look forward to it. All right. And don't forget, folks, later this week, I will be sitting down with former President Donald Trump. What would you like me to ask him? And you know what? It'd be great if you tell me your politics in the question, because I would like to come at him from the right and the left. You know, it's fun to sort of let's see how he does. Cause if he makes it to the general election, he's going to get the questions from the left. And right now he's getting the questions from the right, trying

to win this nomination. So, uh, let me know what your politics are and tell me what you'd like to hear. Uh, I, when I did this with DeSantis, I got some great suggestions and many of them were incorporated into the thinking that I was using going into the interview. Uh's Megan, M-E-G-Y-N, at megankelly.com. While you're there, sign up for our newsletter at megankelly.com, and you will learn all about Stradwick's antics, which today included eating Abigail Finan's lunch just as soon as she got here. It's already gone. Bye.

Talk to you tomorrow. Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.