The Megyn Kelly Show - Left's Trans Ideology Religion, and Men in Women's Spaces, with Sen. Josh Hawley and KKG Sisters Suing Over Trans Pledge | Ep. 550

Episode Date: May 15, 2023

Megyn Kelly begins the show by discussing her recent comments about Charlize Theron and drag queens, the difference between drag shows for adults and drag shows for children, the reality of “grooming” by child molesters, and more. Then Megyn Kelly is joined by U.S. Senator Josh Hawley of Missouri, author of the new book "Manhood," to talk about how parents are being cut out from their child’s transitioning process, how the left’s radical trans ideology is based on beliefs and not facts, the inability for the left to define women, how all masculinity is becoming "toxic" masculinity, decline of young men in today's culture and how it can be reversed, how America's border crisis helps the cartels and human smugglers, former President Trump's character vs. policy, and more. Then three members of the Kappa Kappa Gamma sorority at the University of Wyoming join for an exclusive interview, along with their lawyer, Cassie Craven, to talk about their lawsuit after they were forced to accept a biological man as a new pledge, who is at fault for this disturbing intrusion on previously female-only spaces, how this is part of a larger women’s rights issue, the disturbing allegations against the transgender member, the betrayal and fear these women feel in their own home, why it’s important for women to fight back, and more. Hawley: https://www.regnery.com/9781684513574/manhood/KKG: https://www.givesendgo.com/GoWomen Follow The Megyn Kelly Show on all social platforms: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/MegynKellyTwitter: http://Twitter.com/MegynKellyShowInstagram: http://Instagram.com/MegynKellyShowFacebook: http://Facebook.com/MegynKellyShow Find out more information at: https://www.devilmaycaremedia.com/megynkellyshow 

Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations. Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show. We have got a great show lined up for you today as we dive into womanhood and manhood. In our next hour, I will bring you a Megyn Kelly show exclusive with several brave women from a Wyoming sorority. Remember I told you about this story a couple weeks ago? Who are fighting back after a biological male joined their woman-only space. At least it was, up until they allowed him in. He said he was trans, certainly didn't look trans, 6'2", 260 pounds, and absolutely zero effort to look female

as far as I can tell. However, that's not the relevant point. The relevant point is he's a man and he's joining a woman only space with the cooperation of the Kappa Kappa Gamma National Sorority. You will not believe what these women were subjected to. And today they are speaking out. In a moment, I'm going to be joined by Josh Hawley, a United States Senator from Missouri, to talk about the other headlines from the border insanity to 2024. But before we bring on Senator Hawley, I wanted to have a word about a segment we did on Friday. You may remember that I spoke out in response to Charlize Theron, who decided to participate in a telethon raising money for drag queens.

Sure, that's a worthy cause to spend your time on. And she had this threat for anyone who opposed her agenda of allowing them to perform apparently wherever and whenever and be in front of whichever audience she, and I guess they, would like. Listen. We love you, Queens. We love you, Queens. We're in your corner and we've got you and I will fuck anybody up who's like trying to fuck with anything with you guys. It's really in all seriousness. There's so many things that are hurting and really killing our kids. And we all know what I'm talking about right now.

And it ain't no drag queen because if you've ever seen a drag queen lip sync for her life, it only makes you happier. It only makes you love more. It makes you a better person. Okay. Not true. And obviously just a blatant pander to the far left wokesters who are important to her. So on the show on Friday, I pointed this out and said accurately that drag queen shows actually can be a potential problem and was sure to point out that look you're a grown-up you want to go into a bar and watch one over age 21 with a cocktail

that's up to you i myself have done it when i lived in chicago 25 years ago there was a place called the baton club it was unbelievable and we had a lot of fun there different story entirely from drag queen shows in front of young children, which is happening. So in the wake of those comments, you had some far lefties like LGBTQ nation write up my comments on Friday and attack me for quote, citing zero evidence that there are drag queen shows that are deeply disturbing, disturbing and happening in front of children. Well, LGBTQ Nation, I actually showed such video on the show on Friday. If you had just paid attention to more than the one minute clip that you apparently watched, we did a 10 minute

segment on it right now. It's got about a half a million views on YouTube. Here's more where you see inappropriate sexualized content being offered in front of children. Okay. In front of kids. Uh, this website among others on the left claim that these are false claims. I made that have become distressingly common on the right. No, what is distressing is what is being done to the kids. And I'll give you one of the reasons that I am so upset about this stuff. I recently prepared a show, and you're going to see it next month, taking a deep dive into what happened with Jared, the subway guy. Remember the spokesperson for Subway? Well, he turned out to be a pedophile and is now in prison for 15 years.

And Netflix did an explosive and very eye-opening documentary on how he was caught and what the evidence was against him. And you are going to be riveted by this interview we did with one of the women, the woman who actually first discovered this was who he really was and made it her life's mission to catch him. One of the clips from that documentary is Jared talking to my guest, who's coming on next month, Rochelle is her name, about how he wants her. She's basically gone undercover to try to catch him. She's leading him to believe that she's going to work with him, that she's somehow turned on by this predilection of his. This is all, she's working with the FBI.

This woman has no inclination toward pedophiles whatsoever. She's acting. And she's acting with him, trying to lead him to believe that she's on his side. And listen to what the way he tells her. He wants her to talk in front of young children. She's got two kids, birthday parties and stuff about the way she, she is supposed to groom the children for his arrival. Listen. What kind of cute friends do your kids have? Oh, they have very cute friends. They know everything about sex. It's all they ever talk about in school. What I need you to do is to start talking about that kind of stuff in front of them. You know, you would just say, oh, tell Jared what you guys talk about in school.

You need to start talking about that stuff in front of them. And then it escalates to tell Jared what you talked about at school. You start getting the kids used to inappropriate sexual talk, sexual looks, sexual content. And then the pedophile moves in for the kill. That's called grooming. It's a real thing. It's supposed to lower the child's defenses to inappropriate sexual content at an inappropriate age.

And this is one of the many reasons why drag queen shows in front of children that are sexualized are grossly inappropriate. I'm not talking about, as I pointed out, Dustin Hoffman in Tootsie, Robin Williams in Mrs. Doubtfire. There wasn't a sexual thing about those performances. They were something entirely different. But to suggest that, look at this, look at this man dressed as a woman with his breasts hanging out, his fake false prosthetic breasts hanging out in front of toddlers, all right, in front of young children. It is happening. There are bills in several states to stop it, not because anyone wants to stop adults who are consenting and over the age of 21 from seeing what they want to see in a place like a bar, because we don't want it in front of our kids. And if you don't understand Charlize and LGBTQ nation and whoever else came after me for the Friday comments, which I'm fine with,

but if you don't understand that there actually is a problem and if you're not equally outraged about it, then you are part of the problem. You're part of the problem. You are setting the stage for further grooming and exploitation of children. And the Charlize Theron thing is so disturbing because guess who the pedophiles mostly go after? There are millions of them in the United States, millions. There are about a million in custody and something like 10 to 40% of pedophiles get caught. The vast majority do not get caught. So there are millions more prowling schools and kids clubs and kids charities right now. And the problem for somebody like Charlize Theron, with all of her privilege, to come out and say, I will fuck you up if you if you oppose drag queens, is that she could not come from a more privileged position.

She's rich. She's famous. She's beautiful. I'm sure she has a staff that looks like Downton Abbey. Guess who the pedophiles go after first? The kids from broken homes, the poor kids, the kids who have a parent who's addicted to drugs or alcohol, the kids who wind up in the system for having committed a juvenile defense, the kids who don't have a rich and famous mother out there saying, slay queen. All right. So she can lay the groundwork all she wants for drag queen performers everywhere. She's not going to have to pick up the mess. She's not going to have to deal with the children who get hurt as a result of us pretending this isn't happening. And it's all fine. It's all just well and good. It's not. It's dangerous. That's the truth. Stand by every word

I said. I would like the word spread wide, far and wide, so more people like Charlize Theron and LGBTQ Nation can educate themselves that consensual entertainment between adults is one thing and the sexualization and grooming, indeed, it is grooming of young children is another. Okay. Let's get to our first guest today. Josh Hawley is a United States Senator from the state of Missouri, and he's author of brand new book, Manhood, The Masculine Virtues America Needs, which is out tomorrow. Senator Hawley, welcome back to the show. Great to have you. I know you've spoken out on the protection of children many times. You're right now submitting a bill to try to crack down on porn online that too often winds up in front of young kids.

What do you make of this whole thing? Well, listen, I think that you're absolutely right about the radical left. What I can't figure out, Megan, is why the left these days is so obsessed with, just to take your last example, with drag queens. Joe Biden has them at the White House. The left talks about it constantly. They want to shove them in front of our children. We've all seen this. This is happening in my home state where we have schools, public schools, taking elementary

and middle school age kids to drag queen shows without their parents' knowledge, let alone consent. It's weird. I mean, what is the fascination and obsession with shoving this in front of our kids' faces? And then you go to the next step, which is you have these gender reassignment clinics, these gender so-called therapy clinics. Again, this is happening in my home state, that without the parents' knowledge are conducting gender reassignment surgeries that can sterilize children for life. I mean, this is really out of control. And I think the answer to this is we've got to give parents control again. Let them sue when their kids are harmed without their consent, whether it's through forced sterilization. Let them sue if there's pornographic material online

that their kids are exposed to, that these platforms are putting up, this child exploitative abuse material, sometimes called CSAM. Let the parents sue. Let the victims sue and get their day in court. But we've got to give parents and families, we've got to protect families, we've got to protect parents. They know what's best for their kids. I don't want government raising their kids. I certainly don't want the radical left raising my kids. I want to be able to raise my own kids. And I think every parent in America wants that. You're so right. It's a good parallel between these drag queen shows that are inappropriately sexualized for children and what's happening with the trans ideology in the other lane, because both of them involve a

parent, I think, working out his or her own issues with their child, on their child, right? Like what other parent would take a three-year-old and say they're, quote, transitioning and start them down the line on puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones? You know, we've seen a play out with this Jazz Jennings on national television, where this person is going through torture with all these surgeries and the parent, I mean, it's gotta have to, it's gotta have something to do with the parent and their own problems. Well, and even worse, Megan is what we've seen in many of these clinics, these so-called gender clinics where the parents are cut out of the deal.

I mean, imagine your, your mother, I mean, imagine your own kids going to school, you send them to school and then find out that a counselor or someone else behind your back has said, there's something wrong with your gender. You need to transition to a different gender. And then they start them on therapies. And then they start them on hormone treatments. And then maybe they recommend a surgery that will permanently change their body and sterilize them. And this happens without the parents being involved or knowing or consent. We're talking about minor children here.

This is insane. This is why in the UK, they've shut down many of these gender clinics. But here in the United States, they are proliferating. And again, this is happening in my home state, Megan. We've got a case right now in St. Louis, Missouri, where we have a gender clinic where whistleblowers have come forward and said kids were given hormone treatments, sterilization drugs, and sometimes surgeries without the parents' knowledge, without the parents' consent, sometimes without the patient's full consent. This is crazy. It has become a religion of the left. And all I can say is the

fact that anytime you stand up and say, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute, maybe it's not a good idea to have these kind of surgeries, to have these kind of things going on without parents knowing about it. To your point a moment ago, maybe it's not a good idea for little kids to be put in front of drag queens and these sexualized shows. The fact that the left then melts down anytime you say anything like that really shows you, I think, just how radical and frankly, sort of religiously ideological it has become on the left. And I just think it's out of touch with reality. And parents look at this and they say, whoa, whoa, what is happening here? It's infuriating how important it is to these people to have my child see an inappropriate

sexualized show. I mean, no, right? No, I don't want it at school and I don't want it at the public library. And I don't want it for anybody's kid. Frankly, I don't think it's appropriate. I worry about other kids getting groomed and getting molested, even if they're not my own. Of course, like most seen citizens do. 60 plus percent of the American adult population is against drag queens performing in front of children because they're not lunatics. But on your point, I think it's Finland, Sweden and the UK have all now reverted to therapy, talk therapy being the first line of defense for children who say they have some sort of gender dysphoria or they think they were born in the wrong body, et cetera. Here in the United States, there's actually a proposal by the Biden administration to call that conversion therapy,

to talk, to call talk therapy for kids who might have some gender confusion. And why wouldn't they, when it's being shoved down their throats by their schools and so on, they're calling that conversion therapy now, and there's a push to ban it. So you can't even to have somebody sit with a knowledgeable psychologist or psychiatrist and figure out whether it's my parents' divorce or my eating disorder that's causing these feelings, et cetera. We're just so backwards on this, Senator. Yes. And I think, again, because the radical left has pushed us here. And also, Megan, I mean, you've reported on this for many years. You know the drill here. Follow the money, right? All of these clinics, these gender clinics are popping up all over the United States. Where's the money coming from? I mean, who is paying for,

who has a financial interest in pushing kids toward gender reassignment surgeries and pushing kids toward hormone therapy drugs that cost tens of thousands of dollars and often have to be continued for a lifetime. So I've just said when it comes to the gender clinic in my state, in the state of Missouri, where we've now had multiple whistleblowers come forward and say kids were shoved through this process, they were given, psychiatrists signed off on gender reassignment without actually ever having met the children. The children were not informed, and I do mean children, they're minors, were not informed of the consequences of these children, they're minors, were not informed of the consequences of these treatments. Parents were kept in the dark and magically somebody

paid for all of these incredibly expensive treatments and the clinic made money on it. Who's making the money? Why are they making the money? I mean, these are the things I think we've got to get a handle on. And again, as these proliferate in the United States, every parent in America has the right to know what drugs their kids are being prescribed, if the school is recommending counseling or particularly hormonal therapy behind the parent's back. And I think, Megan, this is why parents' rights, you know, we're just talking about basic things in schools, has become so important, so salient in our country. And as a parent of three kids myself, three small kids, two of them are school age, boy, I can totally relate. Yeah. I mean, it's almost like there's an active effort to turn

them. I've said many times, we pulled our kids from this New York City private school, one of the best schools in the country because our two boys were being asked, our older boy, who was in fourth grade, on a weekly basis, if he was sure he was still a boy. On a weekly basis, they had the boys raise their hands if they were sure they were still a boy. On a weekly basis, they had the boys raise their hands if they were sure they were still a boy or less sure. These are kids who have no gender confusion. It's being actively injected.

And this is why I love the exchange. You wrote about it in part in your book that you had with this lunatic Berkeley law professor. It really was one of those things like the dress that people thought was either blue or yellow. If you looked at this and you were more, I would say, sane, you would obviously say that you had the right.

And then the far left looked at this and they were like, yes, you go, girl, for the woman who was challenging you. I'll play it for the audience and get you to weigh in. It's four. You've referred to people with a capacity for pregnancy. Would that be women? Many women, cis women, have the capacity for pregnancy. Many cis women do not have the capacity for pregnancy. There are also trans men who are capable of pregnancy, as well as non-binary people who are capable of pregnancy. So this isn't really a women's rights issue. We can

recognize that this impacts women while also recognizing that it impacts other groups. Those things are not mutually exclusive, Senator Hawley. So your view is that the core of this right then is about what? So I want to recognize that your line of questioning is transphobic and it opens up trans people to violence by not recognizing that. Wow. You're saying that I'm opening up people to violence by asking whether or not women are the folks who can have pregnancies? So I want to note that one out of five transgender persons have attempted suicide. So I think it's important. Because of my line of questioning? Because we can't talk about about it because denying that trans people exist and pretending not to know that they exist i'm denying that trans people

exist by asking you if you're talking about women are you having pregnancies do you believe that men can get pregnant no i don't think so you are denying that trans people exist and that leads to violence is this how you run your classroom are students allowed to question you or are they also treated like this? No, no, no. They're allowed to question me. They're opening up people to violence by questioning. Oh, we have a good time in my class. You should join.

I bet. You might learn a lot. Wow. I would learn a lot. I've learned a lot just through this exchange. Absolutely. Extraordinary. My God.

So what does that exchange tell us that you had with this woman? Well, what it tells you is just, again, how radical the left has become. And now it is a tenet of faith with them. And I do mean faith, Megan, because it has nothing to do with facts, that there's no such thing as gender, you know, that the category of woman doesn't exist and the category of man doesn't exist. And if you challenge that, you say, hold on, hold on. There is such a thing as a biological reality of womanhood and manhood and women get pregnant. Men don't get pregnant. Then they melt down and say, you are promoting violence.

I mean, it really is. It's an authoritarian strand, Megan, where either you agree with them or you're not just a bad person. You're a violent person and your views need to be suppressed. That's the ideology at work here. But we just need to be, we need to tell the truth, which is this is an incredibly destructive ideology to pretend that women don't exist and aren't real and that anybody can just opt into being a woman. That's what gets us with biological men taking over women's sports. That's what gets us with biological men in girls' locker rooms. That's what gets us to all of the dysfunction

we see now where women are threatened by these men in their spaces because the left now says, there's no such thing as a woman. And by the same token, there's no such thing as a man. It's crazy. There was a picture online being celebrated by the left this weekend of a man, a biological man, doped up on hormones, trying to cross over into womanhood, which is not possible, actually, quote, breastfeeding a baby. Now, there's no breast. This is a man. And on whatever hormones this person is, my heart goes out to this poor baby who any mother could tell you when you get a hungry baby to the breast, and I breastfed three kids for a year each. They're so thankful. They're starving. This is their form of nutrient. This is their form

of life. And this cruel person decides to, for his own kicks, put a baby, a hungry baby up against his chest and have it search for milk when all it's going to get is hormones and drugs, where most of us wouldn't even have a glass of wine and then breastfeed our babies. Never mind, pump ourselves full of hormones and drugs and breast. This is so disgusting. You say it's a destructive ideology. It is. It's abusive. We have sat back for too long, Senator. We've let it happen. We started out compassionate and it's taken over. And it's to the point now where children are the main victims. What can be done? Well, I think we've got to tell the truth, which is that there is such a thing as female and male, right? That those categories, I mean, just until like yesterday,

everybody in world history understood that there are men and there are women. And by the way, it's good to be a woman. It's good to be a man. I think message number one to our kids needs to be the way that you are. Your biological reality is good. You're a boy. That is awesome. You're a woman. That is awesome. We need to affirm that in our kids. And then we also need to put up for them healthy role models about what it means to be a good man, what it means to be a good woman. This is what my book on manhood is substantively about. It's saying to men out there, listen, don't believe the left when they tell you that it's terrible to be a man and that just by being a man, you're somehow contributing to the destruction of the world. That's not true. Be a good man. And let's talk about some role models about what it looks like

to be a good man, to be a father, to be a husband, to be a builder, to be a warrior, somebody who contributes to society, who provides and protects for the people that he loves. So I think we've got to put forward these great role models, tell these good stories about what it means to be a good man, what it means to be a good woman. And then the men in particular, Megan, who are, let's admit it, young men, really adrift in this country. I mean, you can just look at the stats, really adrift in this country, from depression to drug abuse to suicide. We need to tell them they are needed. We need them to contribute. We need them to start a family. This country will be better if they will be involved and be responsible. And we need to

send that message to young men, especially. You know, I was out in South Dakota this past weekend. I'd never been there before. It was amazing. Took the family, saw Mount Rushmore, which is just breathtaking. That is a moment. I recommend it to everybody. Crazy Horse, that was great. I didn't even know about the Crazy Horse Memorial, the big monument, also in stone, still underway,

but breathtaking. And we were watching the guys working on the Crazy Horse Memorial to this Native American. It's been underway since the 1940s. And these guys are up there, Senator. They are like covered in cement. They've got the saws. I mean, it is like you could lose a finger at any second. They are on top of this, you know, mountain-like structure.

And this is how they spend their days. They go out there in zero-degree weather. They go out there in 90-degree weather. As Mike Rowe would say, these are men with dirty jobs and they go home with dirt under their fingernails at the end of the day. And they probably have a beer with their families. And there's some valor in it. There's honor in it. But there is a certain segment of our population that would turn up its nose at those men. And unless they had the right kind of Starbucks offer in Brooklyn and with the right kind of university degree, would think that somehow they're beneath said judges.

How do we get to that point? Well, I think we've gotten here by 30, 40 and 50 years of the elites in this country sending the message that, yeah, if you don't have a college degree, if you don't have a four year degree from the right place, preferably, Megan, if you don't have that right degree, then you don't really matter. You're wasting your life. These are the same people who have sent our good blue-collar jobs in this country overseas for 30 plus years now. Watch those jobs go overseas to China, for instance, to whom we've lost almost 4 million good-paying blue-collar jobs. So they've sent the jobs overseas. They've denigrated men who don't have those kinds of degrees. They've denigrated blue collar work and they've denigrated

the values that sustain blue collar life. And then they wonder why young men in particular are less hopeful for the future, are less interested in starting families. These same people send the message to kids in schools that, you know, if you're not aiming to be a white collar worker and sit behind a desk and you're not aiming high enough, I've seen people send a message in school that if you're a boy who's rambunctious, you need to sit down and shut up and you're part of the problem. You know, so early on, they start by trying to educate our boys out of their boyishness. Listen, I've got two little boys. One is 10, one who's eight. My boys are 110% boy. And I know that there's nothing wrong with them, right? I don't want them being told that they need to be different somehow in order to be accepted in polite society. But the left has sent

all of these messages. And to your question, they sent all of these messages. And over time, that has had an effect where you now have young men who are adrift, young men who are increasingly foregoing work, foregoing education, foregoing family life. And we need to send a different set of messages as a society. We need to say to men, you're wanted, you're needed. We need you to be husbands. We need you to be fathers. We need you to work and that your life can have a tremendous, tremendous impact for good if you'll do those things.

You know, I know it's not exactly on point, but the whole situation with Jordan Neely and Daniel Penny on the New York City subway is coming to mind. Daniel Penny is the Marine, former Marine, who got this angry, threatening passenger in a headlock on board this subway train who had been threatening Daniel Penny, says Daniel's lawyer, says other passengers on the train and others on that train and stood up and did something about it. And every woman I know, I mean, every woman I know has said, I would pray to have Daniel Penny on my subway train. I wanted Daniel Penny every single subway ride I ever take. We've had so many instances in which we felt threatened and we'd know, we know we would lose the fight. If God forbid, one of these angry passengers who was

clearly homeless, clearly on drugs came for us, we'd be dead. And yet he's now been charged with second degree manslaughter, could face up to 15 years in prison if a jury convicts him. And I can't help but think that it's related. I mean, the left probably thinks he's a toxic man, right? That it's his toxic masculinity trying to be the protector who overdid it or his racism. We've heard that too. But that instinct to protect others is good. We should be nurturing it, not trying to snuff it out with criminal charges. Yeah, exactly right, Megan. We should be nurturing it. We should be saying to young men, listen, it is a good thing to protect other people. In fact, our message to men overall ought to be your purpose in life is to go out there and to provide, to protect, and if necessary, to sacrifice your life for others.

Sacrifice your life for the people that you love, for your wife, for your children, for your family, to those in need, whether you know them or not. And I, you know, for this particular situation in New York, I just can't help but observe that we seem to have everything so topsy-turvy. I mean, here we have a guy who is trying to intervene and help, and the left is all worked up about that, wants him treated as a criminal. And listen, I don't know all the facts, the criminal justice system will play it out. But the bottom line is, why is there not outrage among the left about the crime that is sweeping that city? Why is there not outrage about the situation that passengers on the subway are placed in every single day, or folks who are just walking around the streets who are unsafe? I mean, it's just, it's incredible

that we're supposed to overlook that, but then we're supposed to be extremely concerned about private citizens who actually want to do something about it. I mean, this to me is just, it's a bizarre situation and set of circumstances that the left has led us toward. I want to do something about it. I mean, this to me is just, it's a bizarre situation and set of circumstances that the left has led us toward. I want to say something about toxic masculinity. You mentioned that phrase, Megan, to the left, and they're open about this. Toxic masculinity is all masculinity. You know, I quote in the book, a social scientist who says that talking about healthy masculinity is like talking about healthy cancer. You know, all masculinity is bad and that we need to encourage, we need to push men to be androgynous. And really, that's our message to women, too, right? I mean, there's no such thing as male and female.

Just be androgynous consumers, everybody, and then choose your own adventure. You know, do whatever you want. Just don't rock the boat. Don't interrupt, you know, the elites running our society. Nothing could be more weird, dangerous, and ultimately toxic than that message. To be a man is a good thing. And we need to tell men, we need you to step up. We need you to take responsibility. We need you to provide and protect. If you do that, you can be a tremendous force for good. You know, it goes back in part to civics in school and the way we in school and we in society are messaging to our boys, you know, what the future holds and what's possible for them. I think about I was born in 1970 and was raised, you know, that's what 1970 is what, 25 years after the end of World War Two. My God, I'm old. But it wasn't that long after the end of World War Two. It was right before before the cold war and we were feeling patriotic. We were feeling proud to be Americans. Yes, we had Jimmy Carter. So there was that whole malaise situation. But as far as America versus the world, you were proud to be an American. And we were on the heels of these enormous sacrifices that our men had made, you know, kids lying about how old they were to go sign up to fight the Germans. And in school, we would say the pledge, there was a uniform patriotism and an understanding that the

ones who would be fighting for us would be the men. They would be the ones to go off and protect the country and the women and the children. And there was an order to it and there was a loveliness to it. And now you point out in the book, what are our young people doing now? They're sitting there, the way you put it in the book is, what are these young men politicians and much of our entertainment industry, what's the message they're sending to young men? Just sit in your cubicle, sit in your parents' basement, spend some time on your screen. Don't go out and try to help people. Don't go out and do anything that's deemed, quote unquote, masculine. That would be threatening. That would be disruptive. No, no, no, no, no. Just be a consumer. Consume some

entertainment online. And the point of that is, is that what we're seeing are the effects of that. And what is the effect of that message? It is record high numbers of young men who say they are depressed. Record high numbers who are committing suicide. Record high numbers who are suffering from drug abuse and alcohol abuse. So we see the results of the last message and it is dysfunction and disorder all the way around. And it's not good for anybody. It's not good for men. It's not good for women.

It's not good for children. It's not good for society who end up having to support a lot of these men who ought to be working, frankly, as they get old enough to do so. So I think the message we've got to send is just exactly the opposite. It's turn off the screen,

get up out of your parents' basement, go get a job, go get married, go start a family. And you know what? By doing those things, you change the world. You become a force for good. You leave a legacy. And we need you to do that. That's the message of hope, I think, but also of challenge and responsibility that men want to hear. They want to hear it, Megan. And we've got to challenge them to rise up and be the best they can be because this country needs it. And what I'm going to say is in no way diminishing of women and their opportunities, but we do need, we as a society need our men to be our protectors, to be our heroes, to be our warriors, to be in many instances to be, in many instances, our providers.

And I say that as the primary wage earner in my home. That doesn't change my relationship with my husband. He's all those things in various ways. I need that. My kids need that. Our society needs that. That is part of the fire that used to get men out of bed in the morning. And now it's being snuffed out as some sort of a bad value. That's exactly right. And men want to be those things, Megan. I mean, I can say it as a man myself. I can say it as my wife and I, as I said, are raising two little boys. You know, these guys, I can see it already in my boys. They want to go out and blaze a trail. They want to go have adventure. I want them as, and this is one of the reasons I wrote the book, is thinking about my boys and thinking about how do I do my part as their dad to encourage them to grow up to be

strong, good men. And my message to them is you take that energy and you take that excitement and you take that spirit of trailblazing and you channel that towards the good of others. As you grow up, you channel that towards providing for the woman you love, providing for the children you have, providing for your neighborhood and your church and your community. And we need men who are going to do that, Megan. And we need to stop telling them that if they want to do those things, that's somehow destructive or that's somehow toxic or that they're not needed. They are needed.

I'll just mention one other thing here. You know, the data totally backs up your point, by the way. One of the reasons that men are getting married less is that women aren't stupid. Women don't want to marry men. I'm just pointing the data here. Women don't want to marry men who aren't going to contribute something. You know, they don't want to marry a guy who's not going to actually contribute toward the marriage. A woman doesn't want to have a family and think, I got to provide for everybody myself. He's going to do nothing. He's like another child in the family. They don't want that. So as men do less, they become less marriageable. My message to men is, come on, this is the time for you to step up, to go out there in the adventure of your life, which is really an adventure of serving, giving, and providing. As Paris Hilton used to say, not hot, not hot. I'll say one other thing and then I'll take a quick break. But I know you met your wife while clerking for Chief Justice Roberts, right? That's right. Your wife must be a gunner intellectually and professionally married you. You're obviously the better known partner in the relationship. But my point is simply that even hard charging women like your wife, like me, I think want

a man who is a protector, who is a provider in various ways, who will be the hero of our family. Like it's those values are not inconsistent with getting married to a woman who has all those things in her own way has her own dynamic career and life in front of her uh and yours your family is one of those examples that's that's totally true and i just think in my own experience megan i mean strength like strength right i mean my my wife is a strong woman she is an independent woman uh and that's why i married her. I mean, so there's something about, it's just not true. That's like, oh, one partner's strong and the other partner's

weak. I mean, that's not true at all. That's not been my experience. That's not been my observation. That's not true in your marriage. As you've said, it's not true of people I know. I think that to say to men, we need you to be stronger is not to say to their partners and wives, we need you to be less. Quite the contrary, a strong man empowers his wife and vice versa. So the message to me is- It's not like there's a limited sum of strength out there. Exactly. And the more a man takes, the less the woman has.

Totally. Totally. All right. Stand by. Senator Hawley stays with us. A quick break and then back to Senator Hawley. Don't go away. Now, you, of course, are not without your critics. And the biggest line of attack I can see on your book, which seems well-spirited to me and much needed, is that you were not the powerful manly man when on January 6th, you gave the thumbs up to the protesters. And then as your critics would say, ran, ran out of the Capitol when things got dangerous. What are they missing? Oh, that lie has been totally disproved, Megan,

by the footage, the actual footage from that day. But listen, if the question is, do I regret what I did on January 6th and the stand that I took on that day? I don't. You and I have talked about this at length. And my view is, is that I did file an objection to the Pennsylvania electors on that day. Even after the riot, I stood by that objection. And I think it's wrong for states to change their voting procedures and their voting rules in the midst of the election, which is what happened in the state of Pennsylvania. So even questions of fraud aside, and put that to one side, my objection is based on the fact, as an attorney, as a constitutional lawyer, you don't change the voting in the midst of the voting. And that's what happened in Pennsylvania, affecting tens of thousands of votes, maybe more. They also did

mail-in balloting that isn't allowed by their state constitution. So I stand by that. I stand by what I did on that day. I do not regret signaling, raising my fist to those protesters who were protesting peacefully. This was hours before the riot started. I don't condone the riot at all, but nor do I say, oh, well, because of the riot, if you were there on January 6th, if you were there protesting peacefully, you're a terrible person. You should be carted off to jail. No way. There's a right to protest. So I don't regret that at all. I don't regret my actions on the day. I didn't run from anything. That's totally a lie. And I stand by my objection, which I went right back in, even after the riot,

filed it, stood by it, voted for it. And I would do all of that again. Well, the left is very against people crossing lines they shouldn't cross unless it happens to be our southern border. And that is totally fine. That's totally fine um it's amazing to me can we talk about this for a minute because you had president biden um secretary mayorkas out there kind of like hey look at look at the numbers haven't been as bad thursday friday as people predicted you know ball in the end zone totally ignoring the fact that we are still in the midst of a genuine immigration crisis. All the centers are overwhelmed with people. We hit records we should never have hit last week with 10,000 people pouring in a day. And so now, yes, with Texas

Governor Greg Abbott sending a couple thousand National Guard troops to the border and even Joe Biden sending some folks down to the border and Mexico being asked to step it up in the wake of 42 being lifted. We didn't do as badly over the last few days. But what do you make of this victory lap being taken by the Biden administration? Oh, it's totally absurd. And also it's obscene. It's both absurd and obscene. First of all, making just facts right Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday of last week, leading up to the lifting of Title 42, every day we saw record numbers of illegals crossing the border. Record numbers. So for them to say that, oh, it wasn't quite so bad on Thursday, therefore 350,000 children have been smuggled across our southern border.

About 100,000 of them have now just been lost by this administration. And we now know because of great reporting done by actually the New York Times, sold into child labor, sold into human trafficking, sold into modern day slavery. That's their record. That's the victory lap that they're doing is kids being exploited in this country. The biggest child smuggling operation in American history, the worst child labor conditions in a century, thanks to Joe Biden. And they think it's a victory. I say it's a total moral outrage. And we're just at the

tip of this. We're just at the very beginning of what we're going to see as they now really completely open the border. We've seen, Megan, that now they're just letting people in with no court dates. I mean, who knows when they'll ever be processed, if they'll ever be processed at all. It is a moral travesty. One final point. For my state, which is not technically geographically on the border, We're still a border state because of the drugs that flow into our schools in the state of Missouri, into our neighborhoods in the state of Missouri. That is because of Joe Biden's border policies. It's travesty. The problem is that, first of all, the overcrowding at the centers right now is

out of control. I mean, the numbers are really devastating. Fox's Bill Mlusion was giving some reports on, just for example, Border Patrol Central Processing Center in El Paso. They have a max capacity of around 1,000, but there were 6,000 there on Friday. The room capacity is at 120, but they had 750. And as you point out, right now, all these people get released into the United States

and just told to go away. Like, will honor, come back at some point for an immigration hearing. Okay. Bye. Okay. Well, sure. That's going to happen. Um, but the border patrol that's down there right now says the lull is temporary. Trust us when they realize that the app that the Biden administration is telling them to use doesn't work because the app's been out there for a while. Uh, they'll, they'll come back when the Texas National Guard goes back to what it normally does, which is not patrol the border, they're going to come back. There has been no real solution here. Well, you just look at the numbers in the aggregate, Megan. They're absolutely stunning. I mean, you can just take the overall numbers of illegal migrants crossing the border in the

last two years. And this is when Title 42 was still kind of in place. Now that it is gone, I think we can expect to see a continuing massive surge. I mean, if anything, we've become desensitized to just how many people have moved across the border. And I just want to make a point about who benefits from this. It's the cartels. We often talk about the chaos at the border, and it is chaotic on our side, not on the other side. On the other side, the cartels control 100% of the border. Nobody moves across that border without the cartels getting a payment.

No child is smuggled without payment made to the cartels. So who's really running the show here? The cartels are. Who's benefiting from all this? The cartels are. Who's sending those drugs into my state where fentanyl is currently the number one cause of death for most Missourians? Almost all of that comes across the southern border. Who brings it across the border? The cartels do. And it's just going to get much, much worse. All right. I have a tough question for you on everything we've been

discussing. So the border was much more secure when Donald Trump was president. You know that, and so do I, and so does any honest broker. Donald Trump is not in favor of these puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones for kids and all of that nonsense and would fight these wokesters as he did when he was in office. Ron DeSantis too, for that matter, but the question's about Trump. So I couldn't help but think of him many times when I was just beginning to play sports and hunt and enter the world of men that character is what counts live with character he taught me and you'll never have anything to prove to anyone that's how he wore his manhood easily he showed me that manhood is not play acting or social performance it's an invitation to character that god extends by his grace. And my note to myself reads, must discuss Trump.

So how do you square the man who unquestionably, I think in your view and mine, offered us so many great policies that kept us safer, that kept our kids safer, but the Access Hollywood tape, the comments about women, whatever, we could go down the list, the narcissism, the self-aggrandizement, all of it. How do you square that? And how do the voters square that coming up on 2024? Well, how the voters will square it, I'll leave to the voters, Megan. I do think that Donald Trump will be the nominee of the Republican Party. I mean, I just think that's inevitable. I think he's going to be the nominee. And I think that the general, and I guess Joe Biden is going to be the nominee, I mean, by all appearances. So I guess we're going to be the nominee. And I think that the general, and I guess Joe Biden is going to be

the nominee, I mean, by all appearances. So I guess we're going to have a Biden-Trump rematch, and I'll leave the voters to decide. I know where I'll be in that, but I'll leave the voters to decide and to weigh their respective merits or demerits. I will just say, though, on the point about role models, I mean, on the one hand, yeah, we don't elect our public officials to be elders in a church or pope or what have you. But I do think, and this is one of the reasons I wrote the book, that just as a father and as somebody who has a job representing the people of Missouri in the Senate, I do think that we have an obligation to try and be the best men we can be. And listen, nobody's perfect. I'm certainly not. I mean, I tell some stories from my own life in the book about where, you know, trying to figure it out as

a father, not doing as well as I could have as a husband. I mean, you know, so if you're looking for perfection, don't look to me. But I think the call to men should be, listen, nobody's perfect. We don't expect anybody to be perfect. I'm a Christian. You know, I mean, we know that perfection, the only one person was perfect, right? And it's not me. But we do want to say to men, listen, you can still and should strive to be good, strive to be better, strive to be a role model for your kids, strive to leave a legacy. And I think that's something that every man should aspire to, including our public figures. You know, the case against Trump on character sounds pretty good until you look across the aisle and you see some of the stuff that Joe Biden has done. Like, I don't remember a video of Trump sniff know, the white terrorism is the biggest thing we need to worry about white supremacy.

And I'm not just saying that because I'm at a black, historically black college. He said, I mean, like he injects race into everything inappropriately, gets a total pass for it. I don't know what the answer is. Maybe it's the process that just attracts the wrong kind of people to the battle at the very top. You tell me. Well, I think that your point is, is that we're going to choose, the voters will get to choose, and we will weigh the merits and demerits of the candidates that we're given. And like I said, I mean, there's no question where I'm going to be. I mean, I think your points about the former president, his policies, I like much of what he did. I overlapped with him for two

years in the Senate, the last two years of his presidency, and I supported many of his policies. Not everything, but many of them. And I think if you want to talk about making America strong again, about bringing back those blue collar jobs for men, we were talking about earlier, the former president is a strong, strong platform on that. So is he perfect? No. But again, am I perfect? No. So the voters will make their choice there. But I would just say that, again, to the men out there, putting aside, it's always easy. Let me just put it this way, I guess, Megan. It's always easy, I think, for people to say like, well, you know, let's talk about this guy who he's not doing as good as he should. Let's talk about that guy. I just say to the men out there, why don't you and

I start with ourselves, man? Why don't we look at ourselves and say, where can we be better? You know, you can always look at somebody in public and say, ah, they should do this. They should do this. But what about us? You know what I mean? What about, what about you as a husband? What about you as a father? What about you as a, as a worker provider? What about you as a, as a warrior, as a builder? I mean, are you doing those things or can? Where can you get better? And I just think that we should say to each other, hey, let's hold each other accountable. Let's get stronger.

Let's be the best men we can be. That's how we'll change the world, by the way. Not them. That's right. Not him. You. Senator Josh Hawley, thank you. The book is Manhood.

Go check it out. All the best to you. Thank you. Last month, we told you about a story out of the University of Wyoming where several members of the Kappa Kappa Gamma sorority brought a lawsuit over the admins of a transgender woman to their chapter, a biological man. Several disturbing claims were raised in the lawsuit, including alleged behavior by this biological man and pressure from the leadership to admit said man. Today, three of the women are speaking out for the first time to share their story and why they decided to take a stand. They join us along with their lawyer and other members joining the lawsuit from the Kappa Kappa Gamma sorority. Joining me now, Jalyn, Ellie, and Hannah, along with their attorney, Cassie Craven of Longhorn Law and other members of KKG who have

joined. Ladies, thank you all so much for being here. I really appreciate it. I know it's scary to speak out on something like this, and I know you began this journey hoping to keep just your names out of it. You did not want to become activists, but they made you. I mean, the court basically said you have to reveal your full identity. And I really hope this is turning into sort of a Riley Gaines moment for you. I really hope you can see throughout this journey that there is real power in speaking out. And that while you might feel like the minority and they're going to call you names in the start, the journey itself can be empowering and you find out sooner rather than later, you're speaking for the masses, not for a minority. So that's how I see all of you. Thank you for doing what you're doing. Okay. So let's just

start with, it's just this past fall, this all unfolded, September of 2022. And you join Kappa Kappa Gamma. I think you ladies were already in Kappa Kappa Gamma. And then suddenly there's a guy who says he's a woman, but has done almost nothing, as far as I can see, to make himself look female. His name is Artemis. He is 6'2 and 260 pounds. Before we get it started, we pulled a clip of Artemis from back during the COVID lockdowns, speaking on camera at some event, just so the audience can get a feel for what you

were seeing applying to KKG. Here's a bit of Artemis. Communicating with friends, putting that social network that you have from in-person to an online format would be extraordinarily beneficial. And I wish that I had developed that better, but living in a new environment was really difficult. Okay. That is 10 months before this person was admitted to Kappa Kappa Gamma or tried to get in. So you went through the normal pledge situation. And do you remember, this is for any of you, do you remember Artemis coming around, like trying to get a bid from the sorority? I was told, like, he went through formal recruitment, obviously. And then the individual reached out to our recruitment team

and said that he was interested in coming back through again. So you didn't, he didn't get in the normal way. I mean, I remember back in my day, I pledged Tridel. And, you know, you had to go through the whole, like, they give you a bid. And if you get a bid, then you come back and you had to go through the whole, like they give you a bid. And if you get a bid, then you come back and you have to go through the pledging six weeks or whatever it is to get in. So he did not get a bid originally. And then there's this, unbeknownst to me, there's a backdoor to get into the sorority. And Hannah, you were just mentioning how he tried

it through the front door. What's the backdoor to get in? So we have a backdoor formal recruitment process. That's notdoor formal recruitment process. That's not our formal recruitment. In this process, not all the girls get the opportunity to vote. And this just shows another example of how capital leadership failed us because they didn't give us the opportunity to speak our mind when normally we would have been able to during our formal recruitment process. And not only did they push this through, but we had two votes on the individual. And then between the votes, the second vote was not anonymous. And the upperclassmen were using threatening techniques, literally knocking on doors to make sure everyone had voted.

That was our meeting that night. So can I just ask you, so when he comes back through, stand by one second. So he comes back through for this informal process, the backdoor, he got rejected the first time. And I'm using he just to be clear because it's just too confusing if we go with his preferred pronouns, which to be honest with you, it's unclear to me whether this person genuinely has gender dysphoria at all. So this is a biological man, so we can use he for this segment. When he came back through, Ella, you were just going to say something. Were you like, I mean, honestly, be honest. Were you like, what is going on here? This is a woman's only space.

Why are we entertaining this? What was your reaction to this very clearly biological man who's not making any pretense about the fact that he's a biological man trying to pledge Kappa? So initially, it was just shocking and a bit of a slap in the face to those of us that have spent so much time and invested so much into this organization. And so it was really discouraging to see that the vote was not announced, that no one was told about it in advance. And so there were certain people that were not at that meeting. And if they weren't at

the meeting, they were discluded from voting, which goes against the bylaws. Which I also have to add on to that, that we were promised a sisterhood. We joined CAPA just because we were hoping that we would all grow as leaders and we'd have this opportunity. And CAPA headquarters has stripped that away from us. Why was it important to be part of a sisterhood? Our house is really diverse too. And that's the only thing, like we have so many majors, so many states, you know, we're not all from Wyoming.

We're not all the same major. So up until now, like all we had was two X chromosomes keeping us together. And what was it about like being part of a sisterhood that was appealing to you? Being a part of a sisterhood was appealing appealing to you? Being a part of a sisterhood was appealing. I know that both my mother and sister were part of sororities. And I just wanted to be a part of that because we help each other grow. And there's just really an importance to women's

only spaces that you just can't understand what it's like until you live in the house. But we live in a very intimate space that we get to share. And that's why we're here today is because we're trying to preserve that space. Right. And I'm sure, I mean, you knew about the trans situation and the craze sweeping the nation before you got to college, but was there ever even a thought that they would be letting biological men into a sorority when you pledged Kappa? I was pledged into the sorority in fall of 2020. And at that time, we were assured that there was no open process for those that are not biologically female. And so I would not have joined the sorority to begin with if I knew that this is what it was going to come to. Right.

Now, do any of you, I'm looking at the seven of you, do any of you live in the Kappa Kappa Gamma house? Raise your hand if you live in the house. Oh, okay. So quite a few of you live in the house. So that can lead to, you know, and did lead to some very awkward and uncomfortable situations if you have a

biological man there, that's just the truth of it. Even one who is trying to look female, nevermind someone like this. So can you just expand, I'll go to you on this, Hannah, on this vote. So what happened was the more senior members of the sorority organized the vote to let this guy in without calling all the sisters there and saying on Friday, we're having a vote on this backdoor applicant be there. That didn't happen. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So if you weren't at that meeting that night, you didn't get a vote. Um, and that's never how we've really done it. Jalen can talk more on the inside officer side of things, but as someone who had no idea it was happening to begin with, so we were caught off

guard. That's just a scary situation. Then the comments made to us by the senior members were very scary and intimidating. Then when they were coming around, making sure you had voted after you had to put your email in the form, it was just a really scary, intimidating situation to be in. And I just want to say, yeah, go ahead. Oh, sorry. It is in our bylaws that every member is supposed to vote. And this just shows how we were shut down in this situation because not all of us got to give our vote. And we were told to shut up.

We were silenced in the situation. We were told we were not allowed to speak. We were not allowed to discuss our feelings. We just had to sit there and listen. And honestly, I just can't believe this ever happened. Jalen, is that because they knew they didn't have the votes? Yes. I think that's why we were all so shocked.

And in the moment, we didn't say anything because we were silenced and we were told that we were not allowed to say anything because girls got shamed if we had different opinions. And this opinion was forced upon us. We were literally told, if you don't agree with this, if you don't like this, your values don't align with Kappa's and you should just leave. Wow. Who was telling you that? At the time, it was chapter leadership, but we've heard it from national leadership as well.

Can I just ask, for those of us who aren't, but chapter leadership would be a woman who oversees from like it's not a college student. It is a college student. Yes, it is. Oh, it is. That actually has a leadership position within the cap or within our sorority. And so that would include. Is it Maya Deloro? Is that who it is? Maya Deloro? She was not president at the time.

And there has just been a lot of other things that happened. And the situation has changed because we had recent elections and it was more of the past leadership that we had more of the issues with. And it was just really hard because it seemed like people were utilizing their power within the chapter in order to further their own agenda. And what we've seen too, Megan, is a shift. I mean, you have these individuals at the high levels of the fraternal organization at headquarters pushing a woke agenda onto a group of young women when they in fact do not go home every night to a strange man

in their home that's 6'2 and over 250 pounds. Yet they projected this onto these girls to have to live with every single day. Oh my God. I mean, it's just, it must've been so incredibly uncomfortable. And so how many of the senior girls, senior leadership girls within the sorority were, would you say, were pressuring the girls to vote yes, to let this guy in? I would say that our senior leadership was the driving force, but it was all because our CAPA national headquarters was telling them what to say and how to act. And they were giving them the advice and encouraging them to say that we were not aligning with CAPA's values and CAPA headquarters was not answering us themselves. We emailed, texted, and we did not

hear response back. When this leadership told us that we are uncomfortable, we were to reach out to them and that they would help us feel comfortable and make us a safe place. And instead we were just blatantly ignored. Their phone lines were actually shut off for three days. You're lucky you weren't told to go to therapy like the women who objected on the UPenn swim team

to Leah Thomas swimming with the women, right? I mean, that's really the next step in this whole drama in most instances in which women find their voices. They're told that they're nuts. And what they really need is a therapist as opposed to their reality-based perceptions of life. So, okay, so he gets in and you point out that the vote was supposed to be anonymous, but it wasn't because they made you enter your emails. And they're telling you if you vote no, you're a bigot. You're a bigot if you vote no and you don't align with Kappa's values. So can somebody walk me through when you found out he got in? Talk me through that moment. What was that like? Honestly, it was just extreme

disappointment. And it felt like our values and our concerns were not valued over someone else's. It felt like our voices didn't matter. And that's why I'm here todayities because sororities go so beyond your college experience. After we graduate, we get to become alumni. And as alumni, we stay connected and we have this outreach. So this is so much more important than just an organization that I'm part of in college. And that's why I'm here today to advocate for the future generation of girls behind me as well. Yes, Jalen, right on, right on all of you.

I know it's hard, but let me encourage you in what you're doing here and in other areas of your life. Taking great risks is a great thing, male or female. And it leads, whether it works out or it doesn't, to resilience and greater strength. And this is the women's rights issue of your time. You're right. And if you guys don't lead it like the Riley Gaines way,

who will, right? I mean, I'll help, but it's much more persuasive coming from people who have been actually subjected to the negative consequences of this woke ideology being thrust down your throats in the name of tolerance. Tolerance for everyone except you. Tolerance for the biological men, but not you, not the biological women. It's absurd. So let's get into some of the allegations that are in the complaint about what he then did, because this was not, this would have been bad enough. I'm sure Carrie would have represented you from this point forward. But once Artemis got into, sorry, Cassie, once Artemis got into the sorority, his behavior

started to really shock and offend. So it wasn't just like somebody trying to blend in and get along. It was somebody who was clearly getting off on the fact that he was immersed among all these beautiful girls. Who can give me some examples of that? Megan, I think the fundamental point, which is addressed in our lawsuit by detailing some of those salacious allegations is the fact that being a woman is about more than a pronoun and putting on lipstick. There are real biological impacts at play. And that's why this case is so important. And I think I speak for all these young ladies. This isn't even just about a safe space. Being in a sorority

is about protecting this organization that they love. It's about a womanhood experience, and that is fundamentally rooted in biology. You can't just ignore that. We can't just go with the flow and engage in this individual's delusion. It's not our responsibility, and it's certainly not why these young women signed up for this organization. And so that's what they seek to protect. It's not just standing up for women everywhere and their rights to have safe spaces like bathrooms. It's their entitlement to a womanhood experience, which you and I both know is not just gained one day because you say it. go through menstruation and grow up being a young woman. And this individual will never have that experience. And we're not required legally to indulge that. The bylaws implicate certain rules that were not followed and they can't just redefine womanhood because they say so. So Cassie, you mentioned the bylaws. The ones from 1871 show that, quote, any lady may become

a candidate for membership in KKG who shall be of good moral character and above average talent. Any lady. But explain to me, Cassie, because then later, it looks like the KKG bylaws and standing rules and revisions of 2022 seem to say that KKG is a single gender organization, but it's comprised of women and individuals who identify as women. So which bylaw governs? The first bylaw that you mentioned is the applicable law. There was some guidance issued later on from the high levels of this organization to try to push down an agenda. And this was not voted on. It is not legally binding. It is not the bylaws that these young women signed up for.

So the rules are the rules. And if headquarters wants to change that, they need to do so by the appropriate process, not through this backdoor game playing where we just push young women out who don't agree with you, who don't engage in participating in this delusion anymore. And not, you know, if they were going to change it, it would have to be on a go forward basis, you know, starting in 2027, not change it for the girls, the young women who are already in the sorority who pledged understanding the rules would be very different. That's a totally different scenario. It shouldn't happen at all, but certainly shouldn't happen like this. Exactly. And they can't go to another sorority. These young women are where they are. They've established their sisterhood. And now what? Are they supposed to leave? Are they supposed to, as they've been told,

sit down and shut up and not be transphobes and bigots? One of the things you're mentioning, Cassie, is what jumped out to me about your story, ladies, to begin with, because his behavior inside the sorority was absolutely irregular. I mean, this is not how any woman behaves. Never mind the apparent sexual pleasuring of himself while looking at you. We'll get to that. But this is the thing that really jumped out at me that I just couldn't get past. This is from the complaint, quote, Smith, his last name is Smith, repeatedly questioned the women about what vaginas look like,

breast cup size, whether women were considering breast reductions in birth control. I mean, literally in 52 years on this earth, I've never had a woman ask me what my vagina looks like. That is not a question that women ask other women. So what was it like being around him? What was he saying to you? And how was it for you? There were definitely some uncomfortable moments, that is for sure. And I don't believe that anyone should feel cornered or unsafe in their own home.

And like Jalyn said, that just further proves the point of why these women's spaces are so important. From childhood, we are taught that we need to hold our keys between our knuckles when we're walking in a parking lot. The public world can be incredibly dangerous for women. And so having that place to retreat to at the end of the day is so vital, especially when you're working on building your community and professional skills. So Ellie, when you got back to the sorority house after such a day and you sat down next to Artemis, was he like, so tell me about your vagina? It's so absurd. Okay, so I want to go through some of these allegations. Cassie, what would you say were the ones that stood out to you

in serving these girls who had come forward to you with the allegations that he behaved inappropriately? You know, the allegations are shocking to the point where the attorney for Artemis has now said, you know, these can't be true because they do seem like they can't be true, right? I mean, this seems unbelievable that a man who clearly has biological features of a man, as we've seen, is allowed to live in this house and, or excuse me, not live in this house, but be in this house, at least as of now. And, you know, it's very obvious that there's a misbelonging there. And I think what this demonstrates is that sometimes when these woke agendas come down, it's all out of principle, but even the best intentions can have horrible consequences and they have horrible consequences for this man as well. I honestly empathize with him. I feel

like he's in a situation which is not beneficial to him. Everyone here is being marginalized and exploited through this process, and for what? So that headquarters can fundraise, so that they can send nasty letters to alumni telling them to stop discussing these controversial issues. There's nothing controversial about the bylaws. They've been in place for over 100 years. Kappa was formed so that women could join together in sisterhood and have mentorship and encouragement and compete with men in the classroom. That's why this was designed. And now all of a sudden, we're just supposed to, quote, sit down and shut up, go along for the ride, and if we don't like it, we should leave. And we're just supposed to, quote, sit down and shut up, go along for the ride.

And if we don't like it, we should leave. And that's not acceptable to us. I can think of nothing more misogynistic than a biological man telling me how I'm entitled to feel about his erection. Right, exactly. What do we accept that this is a person with genuine gender dysphoria? I mean, we show that videotape. That was from November 2021, September 22. He's in Kappa. So, I mean, it just seems to me this might not be an actual dysphoric person. This might be a faker or somebody who's just using that open door as an excuse to spend time with these young, beautiful women. Megan, it's impossible for us to know that. I think that the individual in question is very troubled on one level or another, or we wouldn't be here today. But I can't help but wonder,

is he a pawn in some larger scheme? What's really the strength putting all of this in motion? Because of the way that the vote came down, and because of the pressure that we've seen toward alumni, toward these girls at the hands of headquarters, it's unacceptable. And I can't help but call into question where that drive comes from. The allegations in the complaint are shocking. Here's one of them, alleging that he behaved inappropriately around the sorority sisters on numerous occasions, including once when Artemis, quote, had an erection visible through his leggings. Other times he had a pillow in his lap. There are similar stories going on about him watching the girls getting an erection, watching a girl change

her top. She wasn't wearing a bra. He was staring at her. Later that day, he appeared sexually aroused during the incident. Somebody told the woman that they had seen that he appeared sexually aroused during the incident and stood near the door with his hands over his genitals. He sat in the back of the sorority yoga class for an hour in December, watching the assembled young women flex their bodies. I mean, I cannot imagine what it was like for you gals, Hannah, in there dealing with this obvious man, but also one who's clearly getting aroused by just being around you. Can you give us some idea of what that felt like for you? It's a weird, gut-wrenching feeling that every time I leave my room, there's a possibility that I'll walk past him in the hall,

whatever setting that may be in. And it's never a pleasant encounter. And that's the scary part. It's a weird feeling just to know that I could run into him anytime, full access to the house. But this just goes to show like, we need women's spaces for that reason. Like our house is our home, just like any else's home. Like you go home at the end of the day to feel comfortable and relax in your own skin. And you can't do that knowing that this individual has full access to your house. It is also really uncomfortable. Um, just because some of the girls in the house, I know they've been sexually assaulted or sexually harassed. So some girls live in constant fear in their home and our home is supposed to be a safe space. And to paint you a picture just

a little bit further, men are never allowed on the second floor of our house, except for move in and move out just to help us lift heavy things upstairs. So it is seriously an only female space. It is so different than living in the dorms, for instance, where men and women can co-mingle on the floors. That is not the case in a sorority house. We share just a couple main bathrooms on the upstairs floor, but it is just us who lives there. And it's supposed to be a safe place that we can go to rest our heads at night. And even in a dorm room, it's been many years for me, but even in a dorm room, I lived in a co-ed floor. They still had individual bathrooms. The women had the women's space to shower and do our business and the men had theirs. And what was the situation with the bathrooms at the sorority house?

All of the bathrooms are shared spaces. There are about three, four, if you count the guest bathroom. And they are shared spaces. There are no private changing areas for when you shower. There are no locks on the showers. And it's just, it's very open and vulnerable. Oh my goodness. And this person's moving into the sorority house next year. What's interesting about that Megan is that there has been an exemption granted for him, for his safety, but not for these young women.

What do you mean? Headquarters, I think, in an effort to try to protect what little dignity they have left in this whole deal, has decided that the individual does not need to live in the house, even though that's a requirement, and that you have to seek an exemption from that requirement. For example, if you have special needs that wouldn't enable that sort of living accommodation. But in this instance, this individual has gotten preferential treatment every turn of the way. And we've seen that with the living situation. But unfortunately, that individual still comes to the house, still engages in dinner, still sits in the chair and watches the girls, all of the things that are

not appropriate in light of what's occurring here. Is there anyone left at Kappa Gamma Gamma right now? Are the rest of the women okay with this or how are they dealing? We're definitely dwindling. We lost quite a few members through this process, especially new members that hadn't been initiated yet that were part of the pledge class that this individual was involved in. And I also almost resigned. I was very determined to leave. I didn't want to be involved in this whole situation. It was too much. But I reconnected with fellow sisters and alumni, and I realized how important this organization is to me and to everybody else. And I refused to allow subverting my rights as a woman to cater towards the comfort of a man.

I will not let him take these opportunities away from me. Yes, right on sister fight, fight, right? It's one thing to fight and lose, but you haven't lost yet. Fight. Nobody's fighting. That's one of the problems, you know, even the UPenn female swimmers did not fight. Riley Gaines was not on UPenn. She came in third against, tied for third against Leah Thomas, and she was outraged, and then she found her voice. But this is how change happens, what you're doing right now. Fight. Let's see. Let's see how it goes. Maybe the Kappa leadership will lose, and you guys will win, and a real point will be made. But go down swinging at a minimum, right? I mean, this is what drives me crazy. Maybe you ladies can educate me because I think too,

like women, young girls are educated and taught, even if it's not explicit, you should be nice. You should not cause waves. You should be accommodating. You should be the nice girl. And we go into these situations with those biases. And then you get confronted with something really worth objecting to. And there's a struggle internally between all of that conditioning you've grown up with and, you know, danger and moral wrongness, you know, staring you right in the face. Have you been going through that over these past few months since you filed the lawsuit and since you've been dealing with them? I mean, everyone needs to be treated with dignity and respect, but there's a line. I think that's being crossed and it's being crossed in other places as well, like women's sports, where we cannot, you know, we can't compete with them. And when they invade our spaces, bad stuff happens. And there's a misunderstanding, I think, too, that exploiting people somehow lends itself to compassion. And that's what this is.

Individuals like the one in question deserve their own spaces. They deserve to be safe and protected and accepted and loved and all of the things. But when you're living in a tight environment with a clearly biological male, it's just impossible for that individual to have compassion. It's so obvious. It's so biologically fundamental to the core. And we can't allow culture to be the arbiter of what sisterhood is. It's a shared experience and it's growth and it's development. And this experience is not doing this individual any justice whatsoever.

So that's where I think the left gets it wrong. You're more compassionate than I am, Cassie, because I don't accept that this person is dysphoric. I think this is a glommer. I think this is a guy who's just getting off on living with these beautiful women. That's how it sounds to me. And I have no compassion for him. I've had a lot of friends tell me, if I knew it was that easy to get into a sorority house, I would have put on a skirt a long time ago. And maybe that's true, but I just can't help but see the pain that it causes everyone involved. And people have to understand there's a better way. Unisex spaces should be developed in a better way.

If this were happening at Tridel, I would go volunteer to be like the house mother tomorrow. I would go in there. I'd be like, what the hell's going on underneath that pillow? Get out of here. Get, take your story walking, right? I mean, it's just like,

it's so infuriating. You were subjected to this. It's so deeply wrong. It's bad enough. We walked through a fraternity party and see a guy doing that. Having it happen in the sorority house is a different story. So can we talk? And then I want to get into the legal allegations because it's interesting you're fighting back legally. But can we talk for a second about fear? Because there were a couple of those UPenn swimmers who came forth anonymously. They did not want their names out. And they said anonymously to my pals over at The Daily Wire, I'm worried if I come out with my real face and my real name saying these things, I'm not going to get a job. I'm going to get labeled a transphobe, which I know you guys

were called if you voted against Artemis. Do you fear that? Is that a dynamic for any of you? I think it was a fear for a lot of us initially. But as we continued with this whole process, I think we just grew more and more in our confidence about how important this actually is. And we were just, as women, we're expected to be compassionate and complacent, if we're being honest. And it's this new movement of non-biological women entering our spaces, and we're just supposed to be okay with it. But we're not. That's the truth. There are so many women that are saying no, that are screaming no, and we're being silenced.

But just because you can't hear it doesn't mean it's not happening. We are saying no. We are done. We are done. And another reason this is just so important is that we're not doing this just for us. Again, we are doing it for younger girls behind us, the rest of the girls in the house who are too scared to put their names forward. And I just like to say that there are so many more of us than who's on camera today. There's a lot of us behind this because we all believe this in this and we're working through this together. And we really do want to make a difference for those girls in the next generation behind us. I feel like they messed with the wrong group of

women. I was looking at your majors. Maybe this is a function of being in Wyoming. You know, I was just out in South Dakota. You know, there's just something of there's a grit in that area of the country that you might not find in like Brooklyn. I'm just going to say. And I was looking at, you know, so Hannah, you're you want to be a game warden. You're from Nebraska. I love that. You've got Ellie. You're from Wyoming. You're majoring in agricultural communications. One, Ali, who's here in the back row, pursuing a career in farm and ranch management. Another, Katie, want to be an environmental consultant. I just feel like there's a grit here where you're taking on or hope to big roles in male-dominated industries where you just, you know, I feel like it all happened at University of Wyoming for a reason. I just, something tells me it happened there for a reason and you were kind of chosen for this battle. Now let's talk about, oh, before we get to the

legal allegations, what's the deal with the 1.7 GPA? Can anyone explain why this is relevant? You know, Megan, this is one of the many examples that we have reason to believe that this individual was given preferential treatment, that the rules that apply to everyone else do not apply to this person. And, you know, discovery will unfold that process fully and the why behind that. But at least for now, we know that this is not in any way, shape or form how this process goes from the grades. What are you supposed to have? What's your GPA supposed to be? 2.7 is the minimum. Oh, to get in and stay in, Kappa. Oh, 2.7, that's like, he's got like half.

So do we know that that was the GPA or we're doing discovery on this? We'll do discovery to fully vet that, but we have very good reason to believe that that's the case. And that's why it's in the allegations. Unbelievable. I mean, that's like a scene straight out of Animal House. Well, it's not unbelievable if the exemptions are granted at a high level of the organization.

That's right. So now you've got somebody who's, you know, appears to be somewhat, this is my view, of a pervert who's also not that smart, also has very little regulation on how one approaches one's health and fitness and well-being, or sitting there amidst you at every turn, during the yoga, during the showering, and so on And by any means, it's not a, quote, lady. So, Cassie, they come to you and how like what is the lawsuit about? Because I get the outrage. I get a national protest. I get a walkout vote. Like what how do we turn it into a lawsuit? We worked very hard to just factually present this to the court. And granted, we had to include some of the more gritty allegations because it shows what was really going on here. But the claim is a breach of contract claim. It's saying that the high levels of this organization did not play by the rules, that there was gamesmanship and illegality involved, and that these women, as in any contract, whether it's a real estate contract, a business contract, you go into it,

you enter it knowingly, you have expectations and understandings and things are presented to you and you make an informed decision. And that's exactly what happened here. They were told that they were joining an all women's organization. And during the rush process, you know, they got told it was a sisterhood and a slumber party all the time. You're going to feel accepted and loved. And it's a great experience now and forever. These will be your best girlfriends. And then this happened. And that flies in the face of any expectation they have. And we're bringing it also as a derivative claim to try to save Kappa because Kappa is an amazing organization. It's got alumni that are, you know, a hundred to 18 at this point that are involved and they all love it. And they all speak so highly about how it changed the course of their lives, how know, 100 to 18 at this point that are involved and they all love it. And they all speak so highly

about how it changed the course of their lives, how they were able to develop in this sisterhood in a safe space. And all of that has been abolished without their consent, without the proper vote, and it's illegal. And so we are asserting their rights under the contract that they entered into. I've had tons of emails and comments

from our listeners and viewers saying they're Kappa alum and they're sending back their key. It's not saying I'm sending back my key. And they were all very upset about the GPA issue saying that's an obvious violation that no girl would be allowed to commit and stay in the sorority. And certainly he shouldn't have been allowed to. The lawsuit also alleges that, actually, I don't know if this is from the lawsuit, but I know that there's something called the NPC policy. And I want to ask you about this, Cassie, because they say the NPC recruitment eligibility policy, and this appears to be a national fraternity organization, says for the purpose of participation in panhelemic recruitment, woman is defined as an individual who consistently lives and self-identifies as a woman.

So what's the MPC recruitment eligibility and is CAPA bound by that? Are they required to follow some, you know, greater sorority rule that governs all the sororities? We're not, but you can see this shift coming from the top down. And National Panhellenic likes to set these guidelines that push a deep, dark agenda. And they try to infiltrate into the bodies, into each of the sororities, into the fraternal organizations at a high level. And it's insidious. It works its way down until these people feel so pressured that they have no choice but to go along or to sit down and shut up or to be scared. And it's not binding. It's not legal. It's not the bylaws that these young women signed up for, but you're seeing that societal pressure

at a high level come through, through that entity into the organizations. And, you know, we've had so many women across the country and other sororities reach out to us to speak words of encouragement to these young women to say, we are so glad you're standing up because the same thing is happening in our sororities as well. And so you're seeing. Is that right? Exclusive to Kappa. Is that right? So you're seeing it at other sororities at other universities. It's starting to.

It really is starting to. And the nice thing about this lawsuit is it's really the first one in the country, I believe, that will take up the issue of what is a woman because our bylaws under CAPA were so stringent. They've said womanhood, ladylike. We have all of these terms and the whole crux of why the organization began, like I said, was to compete with men in the classroom, to give women an advantage that they had never otherwise had, and to establish the sisterhood that didn't exist. So we perfectly have the test case for it, I believe, and we'll see what happens. You know, it's pretty amazing if you look at that national, like the panhelemic group, which governs all the sororities, they say, okay, so for purposes of participation,

woman is defined as one who consistently lives and self-identifies as a woman. I think you've got a very strong case that Artemis was not consistently living as a woman. This person does not, I mean, look, I don't know. I feel like you would still be bringing this lawsuit if the person who got recruited and admitted into CAPA were Dylan Mulvaney, somebody who makes an effort to at least appear female. But this person made no effort. I mean, absolutely none. It's like having the rock come apply. And then the next thing you know, there he is watching you do your yoga, only far less attractive. So can I ask you that? Like Dylan Mulvaney, how would you have felt about somebody who appears feminine is making an effort to appear feminine?

There are issues with just how feminine and stereotypical, but would that have changed this for you? Not at all. In fact, I think it's so counterintuitive to the right that we've fought a century for as women to say you can be who you are. You can wear pink, not cut your hair, work in ag, be a nurse. It doesn't matter. You're a woman. And that's what binds us.

And marginalizing that to the extent that now, if you put on a dress and you put on some lipstick, then all of a sudden you're a woman where you can put lipstick on a pig that doesn't make it a lady, Megan. I mean, it's just so offensive to me that now it's all about how we look. And that's what makes a woman. No, it's based on our experiences as women. It's based on our biology. And that's what these young women are trying to live together to figure out. You know, they're at the beginning of their lives, essentially, where you're supposed to go to college and relax and form relationships and figure out who you are. This is not a safe space for some man who wants to pretend to be a woman to figure out how to do that. This is not a breeding ground for that.

Yes. It's like Kelly J. Keene says, we are not under the obligation to participate in somebody else's fetish just to make them feel comfortable at our expense. We have no obligation to do that. I will say this on the Dylan Mulvaney front, Dylan Mulvaney just interviewed Judy Blume in connection with the movie version of Are You There, God? It's Me, Margaret. Now, I don't know if any of you is familiar with that book. That was more of my generation, I think. Maybe it was for every generation.

But that book is about getting your first period. And now they literally have a biological man interviewing Judy Blume about this book, about what it's like to get your first period. The absurdity of it, like Dylan Mulvaney would know anything about that, right? Every woman on this screen knows all about that. The trauma that comes with it, the stress that comes with it. Sometimes the, you know, oh, it's a dawn of a new day and I'm a woman that comes with it. But this is how far they'll go. They'll have a biological man pretending to be a woman

interview the preeminent author of the book about getting your period about what that's like. We've jumped the shark, Cassie. So what is specifically the relief you want? What do you want the court to order? We want them to follow the own rules that they set, their own rules that have existed for over 100 years. And we want them to say that that means you have to be a biological woman. You can't be a man pretending to be a woman. And if they don't like those rules,

then headquarters and all the high level needs to go change that appropriately so that it's legal, so that people who join this organization, women who join this organization know what they're signing up for. They can't just change the rules overnight when the decisions have already been made, the promises have already been granted, and now these young women are expected to just go with it. And on the Dylan Mulvaney front, I think it's a testament to the fact that they don't want us to know who we are. We don't get to, you know, be crafted by God anymore. I think it's something so much more deep than what we see on the surface. And I know there's a lot of perspective on that.

But I think that if we're to honor what it means to be a woman, that's divine. That's feminine. That's something that we're born with that you can't take away from us. That's why a woman who can never conceive a child is no less of a woman, because that's who you are. That's who God has made you to be. And so we believe very strongly in the fact that Kappa needs to play by the rules that they set.

And if they don't like those rules, they need to change those rules legally. So this is what you're up against, in part. My team actually pulled a soundbite of Dylan interviewing Judy Blume. Judy Blume, who originally, she made some comment that was more aligned with what you and I are saying right now. Then she got all this blowback, and now she's on a full apology tour. That's, I believe, why she sat with Dylan Mulvaney. But just listen to this exchange. Okay, this is, just listen to this.

This is what you're up against. That you would say to someone new in their womanhood, exploring that, any advice that you would give? Enjoy it. Enjoy it. Thank you. Love, love it. Thank you. If you can. Thank you. It's hard no matter what sex you are, no matter your gender. Life happens and life can be tough. I'm sorry, Cassie. I see that and I feel anger. I feel extreme just misunderstanding and manipulation. People don't know how to speak the truth anymore because they're too terrified. And I think that that's evidenced by these young women. I mean, again, they're in a college experience. They're supposed to be having

the time of their lives. And instead, they have to worry if somebody's going to come bomb their sorority house because now it's on the front page. You know, it's, it's just a wild world that we live in where you can't even stand up for your own safety anymore. Where for a hundred years, we've been fighting for the right to vote, which by the way, Wyoming was the first state in the union where we were allowed to vote. And now all of a sudden you wiggle your nose and so it shall be so you're a woman. No, that's not what that means. That's never been. Enjoy. Enjoy. As for the women who now have to share their bathrooms with you and their locker rooms with you and their sorority with you, they can pound sand. Too bad on them. I will say Carrie Cottrell Poole, the executive director of the sorority,

says the lawsuit contains numerous false allegations, but that the sorority could not comment in detail. She said this in an emailed statement and says the sorority does not discriminate against gender identity, which really kind of begs the question, does it not? The question is, does it discriminate against actual women who were promised one thing and given another? Last question for the women, the young women on the set. If the lawsuit is not successful, will you stay in CAPA? Raise your hand if the answer is no. So you'll all stay.

You all will stay in CAPA. I hear a lot of deep breaths. all stay. You all will stay in Kappa. The organization at large is a really large organization and us dropping or quitting or leaving is not going to do anything to help our cause. It's not going to do anything to stand up for women's spaces. It's not going to do any good. I mean, it's also not going to do any harm, but we're here to say and make a statement. You can't just be rolled over and said, this is our definition of a woman. And it's now yours too. We, that's not our definition of a woman. And we're not going to sit here and be told that it is. And we're not just going to let them win.

We're here making a fight. We're giving our voices and we're speaking up for other girls and we're making a statement either way. And we're going to make sure that our opinions are valued at the end of the day because Kappa ultimately betrayed us in this whole situation. And that is just not right. This organization has so much great potential for the alumni outreach and just everything it provides us as leaders. And that's why we're here fighting because we're not just going to drop. I think it's important to remember that, yes, you're going to get a slew of labels. And honestly, I have to Google half of them because I don't know what they are. And so we're not afraid of these labels. I want to make that very clear. We are not afraid of what labels

someone wants to put on us because of this lawsuit. We know who we are, and we know that our voice matters. Right on, sister. Good for you. Good for all of you. Thank you, Cassie, for taking the case. I can't wait to see you guys out there kicking ass with the game warden and the ag field. And all of this is great training ground for it all. Please keep your voices out there. Go on tour. Go to the other colleges, take what they throw at you, do it with a badge of honor. It doesn't matter. Tomato juice. Well, you can withstand that. This is much harder. I think you've learned a really important life lesson. Your parents raised you right. Thanks for coming on ladies. All the best to you. Thank you. If you want to support these women in their efforts, they have a fundraising page.

Give send go dot com slash go women. Give send go dot com slash go women. W.O.M.E.N. Oh, we have a good lineup this week. We have got for the first time on the show, Roseanne Barr coming up on Wednesday and Dan Bongino will be here on Friday. We also have the fifth column, love them, and Carrie and Britt come back on the gender craziness. They're awesome. Looking forward to that. And thank you for being with us. Thanks for listening to the Megyn Kelly show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.