The Megyn Kelly Show - Major Revelations in Savannah Guthrie's First Interview, and Possible Gang Connection to Sheridan Gorman Murder, with Gov. Rod Blagojevich | Ep. 1282

Episode Date: March 26, 2026

Megyn Kelly is joined by James Hamilton, Eric O'Neill, Pat Brosnan, and Randy Sutton, security and law enforcement experts, to discuss the bombshell information in Savannah Guthrie's first long-form interview about the disappearance of her mother Nancy, how the interview by Hoda Kotb was conducted with a lack of follow-up questions, the revelations that the back door was "propped open" rather than just unlocked, Savannah making it clear she believes her mom was kidnapped, why she believes some of the ransom notes are real, questions about why no ransom payment was made, Ashleigh Banfield’s new reporting that the only blood found inside the home was near the door, comments Savannah made about what happened in the bedroom, new details about the Nancy Guthrie ransom notes, evidence for why they should or shouldn't have been taken more seriously, Savannah’s comments about Sheriff Nanos and the investigation, serious questions about how he's handling the case, and more. Then former Gov. Rod Blagojevich, author of "Framed, F*cked, and Freed," joins to discuss new information on Sherman Gorman’s alleged killer, serious questions about his possible gang involvement, whether this killing may have been a gang initiation, what Gov. Blagojevich learned about gang members in prison, how Democrats are avoiding the truth about the Sheridan Gorman murder, Democratic politicians and judges protecting illegal immigrant gang members, and more.   Hamilton- https://www.hamiltonsecuritygroup.com/ Sutton- https://www.instagram.com/lt.randysutton/?hl=en O'Neill- https://ericoneill.net/books/spies_and_lies/ Brosnan-https://www.youtube.com/@PatBrosnan Blagojevich-https://www.skyhorsepublishing.com/9781510785267/framed-fcked-and-freed/   Riverbend Ranch: Visit https://riverbendranch.com/ | Use promo code MEGYN for $20 off your first order. Joi + Blokes: Go to http://joiandblokes.com/MKand use code MK for 65% off your labs and 20% off all supplements Birch Gold: Text MK to 989898 and get your free info kit on gold Byrna: Go to https://Byrna.com or your local Sportsman's Warehouse today.     Follow The Megyn Kelly Show on all social platforms: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/MegynKelly Twitter: http://Twitter.com/MegynKellyShow Instagram: http://Instagram.com/MegynKellyShow Facebook: http://Facebook.com/MegynKellyShow  Find out more information at:https://www.devilmaycaremedia.com/megynkellyshow Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Welcome to the Megan Kelly Show, live on SiriusXM Channel 111 every weekday at New East. Hey, everyone, I'm Megan Kelly. Welcome to the Megan Kelly Show. I should have done this yesterday, but I'm going to do it today. Happy birthday, Steve Crackhour. It was his birthday, and we forgot to say it on the air, but we love him. He's our executive producer. He's been with us since the beginning of the show and doesn't get nearly enough credit for all the hard work and amazing, amazing contributions he makes to not just the show, but the entire company. MK Media and all of our programs there and MK True Crime and all of it. So Steve, we love you. Happy birthday. Okay, today, wow, wow, unbelievable news breaking. We've, first of all,

got more on our investigation into the murder of 18-year-old college student Sheridan Gorman in Chicago. This poor, poor girl. Blago's going to be here. Yes, former Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich, friend of the show on why he does not think we're getting the full story about the suspected killer, Venezuela illegal immigrant, Jose Medina. Wait until you hear what he has to say. Obviously, he knows Illinois. And he's got thoughts on how they're misleading us in his estimation. But we begin with the latest on Nancy Guthrie and what an update we have. The 84-year-old mother of NBC anchor Savannah Guthrie has not been seen since January 31st. Authorities believe she was forcibly abducted in the early hours. Overnight, Saturday night, January 31st into Sunday, February 1st. This was out of her Tucson, Arizona home, one hour away from the Mexican border. This morning, we heard for the first time from Savannah at length in an interview, sitting down with Hoda Kotby on the Today Show for her first interview since the kidnapping. Here she is describing the moment she learned her mother Nancy was missing.

And my sister called me, and I said, said, is everything okay? And she said, no. She said, mom's missing. And I said, what? What are you talking about? She said, she's gone. And we, she was in a panic. I was in a panic. I'm like, call 911. She's like, I did. We called them. They're here. And we thought that she must have had like some kind of medical episode in the night and that somehow, you know, the paramedics had come because the back doors were propped open, you know, and that didn't make any sense. We thought maybe they came and there was a stretcher and they took her out the back, but her phone was there and her purse was there and all her things. And it just didn't make any sense. So, you know, Annie in

Tommy had already called all the hospitals, but then I'm like, I'm going to call the hospital. So then I started calling the hospitals and the police were there and talking to her at the same time. And it was just chaos and disbelief. There is so much more to get to, including real information about the investigation that was divulged, which I have in a few soundbites. We're going to play for you. We want to bring in our experts. James Hamilton is a former FBI supervisory special agent and creator of the FBI's close protection school, which is a specialized training program designed for agents to protect

high-level individuals or officials. Eric O'Neill is a former FBI counterintelligence operative and author of the book Spies, Lies, and Cybercrime. He helped catch one of the most notorious spies in U.S. history. And Randy Sutton is a 34-year law enforcement veteran and founder of the Wounded Blue. If you are looking to make smarter choices for your health this year, consider River Bend Ranch. Their steaks are not only delicious, they also contain real high-quality protein that helps fuel your body. Beef is a complete protein and contains all nine essential amino acids your body needs to function. It also keeps you fuller for longer, reducing cravings and snacking. But here's the key. Not all beef is created

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Guys, welcome back. A stunning update just to hear Savannah on camera speaking one-on-one with Hoda and telling some of what she knows about this crime. So there was part one where she revealed the moment where she found out from her sister Annie that their mom was missing. Annie and Tomas, they call them Tommy. We learned it from this interview. Showed up to the mother's house, saw that the phone was there, the purse was there, all of her things, said Savannah, but the mother was not. And she talked about, you know, calling the hospitals and disbelief and not really understanding. Then she went on, hold on, she went on to talk about how there was no way her mother could have wandered off. And she added new details from there.

Take a listen here to Sot 2. She can't wander off. my mom her she was in tremendous pain her back was very bad you know

she was trying to on a good day she could walk down to the mailbox and get the mail but most days not so there was no wander off and the doors were robbed open

yeah and there was blood on the front doorstep and the ring camera had been yanked off and so we were saying This is, do something.

This is not okay. Yeah. This isn't something is very wrong here. So there you have new information, which we had not heard before, James, about the door, the back door being propped open, propped open, she said. Now, she mentioned the blood on the doorstep that we knew. And we've got an update on the blood, too, that we'll get to in a minute. But that was an interesting detail, that the back door was. was open and it was propped open and really kind of putting to rest once and for all the idea

that Nancy Guthrie walked out of there on her own. We did not know about the terrible, painful back where on a good day she could walk to the mailbox. Your thoughts on what we've heard so far. Yeah, good to see you again. The purse and the phone being there are, I think, I feel like that's new to me. Maybe I knew the phone was there, but I didn't know the purse. So, of course, And it's obviously tragic to watch her go through that. I think I have more questions now than before. And one of my biggest questions is, why are we messed around with the front door? Why is there blood on the front door?

If we have a propped open back door, why aren't we just going out that way? So I have more questions now than I had before. Yes. Why would the door be propped open, Eric? I agree. I don't understand. Propto, and we don't, I'm just going to take a moment and give a little editorial of my own on this from a journalistic perspective. You don't have to comment on this.

But I, with respect, I have to say, I think Hoda Kotby fell down on the job. And I don't think she was the woman for the interview. They put her out there because they use this as a promotional vehicle. The two are friends. Look, we're a big family. Look at them relating. They kept her mic up for her empathetic sounds and her active listening, which was actually a major distraction and very odd in the choice because normally the network would turn down Hoda's mic during Savannah's very compelling answers, especially in an interview this big. The reason they left Hoda's mic open is because I'm telling you, NBC had an agenda here, which was to show you one big happy family. Look how empathetic she is. It was an inappropriate choice,

journalistically, because it served as only a distraction. This interview was not about Hoda. It was about Savannah. And I'm sorry, but Hoda kept wiping away tears that weren't there either. This was acting on Hoda Cotpies Park, and it was a distraction and an unnecessary one. But my real complaint about the way that Hoda handled this was there were no follow-ups, none. And therefore, it was not journalistically sound. She did not ask very basic questions like, what do you mean propped open? That's it. I'm not talking about you go for the jugular, you treat her like she's an hostile witness. I mean very basic. reportorial ABCs. What does propped open mean? And the sins got worse as the interview went along.

I objected to how it was handled. I'm just being honest. I'm not trying to be petty. I'm trying to be honest about what I saw there and what should have happened in an interview this big. But, okay, Eric, we didn't get a follow up on what propped open means, nor on what the family believes happened there because we now know that there's blood on the front steps, front stoop or porch. I'm going to play Ashley Banfield's reporting in a minute, but Ashley's now reporting that there were, that the blood we knew happened in the house was indeed on the inside part by the front door, which is what we'd speculated but didn't know. And yet the back door is the one being, quote, propped open.

So what do you make of that? Well, I would, first of all, on the interview, it seemed to me that the interview was a little bit more of Savannah just talking. And you could certainly feel the pain coming through. So more of like a monologue than an interview. So I see where you're going there. And obviously for the family, this is an immense tragedy. And of course, the fact that they just don't know what happened to their mother, and this is Savannah and her siblings, is certainly coming through in the motion that Savannah was feeling there. As for the door, yeah, I thought it was also curious to say that it. was propped open. That suggests, of course, what we thought all along that they went in through the back and with the blood near the front door probably brought her out through the front. If you're going to move her out quickly and if this was actually an abduction, and Savannah certainly seems to say a number of times that she still believes it's a kidnapping, then you're going to move her out the front door, which is the fastest egress to get to a car and get out of there. Why would you prop open the back door, Randy, if you're going to be.

you are this abductor? Well, this is the question that I had, and when we're talking about propping open the back door, was it propped open by three inches? Was it propped open completely all the way? And the other question that I have is that, you know, she lives in a very rural area. Some people open their doors in those rural areas in order to get ventilation. Was this something that was normally done? These questions were not asked nor answered. So those are questions that I have. Now, here's also something is I felt very significant. They knew early on from what the interview with Savannah was that there was blood. They understood that the ring doorbell had been ripped off.

These are huge clues here. So the question that I have is, and of course her statement that her mother doesn't go walking around and she didn't leave voluntarily. That indicates a crime. Why was this treated as a search and rescue effort, bringing in teams of search and rescue people to trample the scene and to screw the scene up? And then within days, release that scene. These are the questions that I have that relate directly to the competency of the sheriff. What do you make of it, James? Yeah, I was going to echo Randy's sentiment in that she continued.

to say that the family was really focused on, no, you don't understand, as if they're trying to explain to the police, the police had a narrative. It sounds to me like the police had a narrative that they were saying to her, like, this happens all the time, I'm sure it's nothing. You know, they're trying to minimize it and downplay it, you know, people go missing or walk away all the time. She's old, yada, yada. And they're saying, no, no, no, you don't understand this isn't like the others. You know, I think that's what she said. And so to me, it sounded like they were trying to impress upon law enforcement to take this more seriously, and they were trying to kind of explain it away, like, you know, this happens a lot.

The business about, you know, the bad back and on a good day she could make it to the mailbox, that is interesting. And she said, but most days not. Most days Nancy could not even make it to the mailbox. So she was not mobile. Nancy Guthrie was not mobile. And there are more clues that are revealed in the coming soundbites, which I'll get to. Here is, hold on, the one where she describes her belief that she thinks her mother was kidnapped for ransom. This is a tough one. It's not for. My brother, you know, he spent his career in the military and worked in intelligence and is a fighter pilot and is brilliant.

and he saw very clearly right away what this was. And even on the phone, when I called him, he knew. And he said, I think she's been kidnapped for ransom. And I said, what? What? And then, I mean, it sounds so like how dumb could I be? but I just, I didn't want to believe. I just said, do you think because of me?

I'm sorry, sweetie, but yeah, maybe. I knew that. You did? I hope not. I mean, we still don't know. Honestly, we don't know anything. We don't know anything. So I don't know.

Yeah. That it's because she's my mom. and somebody thought oh, that girl, that lady has money, we can make a quick buck. I mean, that would make sense, but we don't know. But yeah, that's probably, which is to think that I, because of me.

I'd just say, I'm so sorry, Mommy. I'm sorry to my sister and my brother and my kids and my nephew and Tommy. I'm like so sorry. I'm so sorry. If it is me, I'm so sorry. Oh, that is gut-wrenching. And I think anyone can understand what that would feel like. Whatever your job is, someone got angry with you or someone thought you had money or for whatever reason about you did something horrible to your family member, your mom or anyone in your family. Of course, she knows it's not actually her fault. But she feels.

feels responsible as I think any human would. But she added to this a couple of things that from an investigative standpoint, I think you guys will find interesting. Like, you know, that was, that was interesting from a human standpoint. And of course, the fact that Savannah all these weeks later still believes it was a kidnapping for money due to Savannah's wealth, that does tell us something. I mean, Eric, your thoughts on the fact that she's still holding on to that point. belief is her primary theory, you know, six, seven weeks into this crime. Yeah, I agree. She certainly believes it's a kidnapping. She's certainly blaming herself. And honestly, it is likely that this was, at least in the beginning, a kidnapping that turned into an abduction. And I honestly believe that

even if it started there, you know, you see the blood. Now we know how infirm Nancy Guthrie was that she may have passed pretty quickly. And there was no ability to give a sign of life. Now, she does, I'm not sure if it's in this clip or a later one, but Savannah does raise something else. It's about the ransom notes themselves. She says at one point that there I have that. Let me play it. Let me play it. And then you take it on the back end. Here we are in SOT 6. There are a lot of different notes, I think, that came. And I think most of them, it's my understanding, are not real. And I didn't see them. But, um, you know, a person that would send a fake ransom note

really has to look deeply at themselves. Yeah. To a family in pain. But I believe the two notes that we received that we responded to, I tend to believe those are real. Okay. That was huge. Keep going to hear.

Right. So here's where I'm going to agree with, your earlier statement, Megan, there's where you need a follow-up, which two notes, right? Yes. So we know that- And also why, why? That's it. It doesn't take any sort of experience in the journalism biz.

Just why? What can you tell us? I know you're limited in what you're going to say, but what can you tell us to explain why you believed two were real? So we don't feel like we know, I don't feel like we know now what notes went where. We know that some went to media. We know that some went to TMZ. Are she talking about the same notes? Or were there independent ones that went to the family?

Because it's never made sense to me that the kidnappers in potentially such a massively high-profile case are going to send ransom notes to public media and not send it directly to the family. It's not going to be difficult to find a way to get it to Savannah Guthrie. So I've never believed that those notes were true. So now I'm questioning, were there notes that were. we don't know about that did go directly to the family that that haven't been publicized. And that's what Savannah's talking about. And, you know, I wish you had done the interview because I'm sure you would have followed up. These, I mean, truly like who, what, when, where and why are very, very basic journalism steps. Like, it's, that is not rocket scientist, science stuff. Like,

which notes, the two that went to TMZ and local media? Are those the ones you're talking about? Just to be clear for the record. And it wasn't asked. assuming it was those notes, here's the critical question that needed to have been asked, then why didn't you pay the ransom? Right. And that's why I don't believe those were the notes. I don't think those were the notes. I believe those were.

See, I disagree with you. I think Savannah, as a journalist, would have said there were other notes you don't know about that I'm, you know, whatever. I don't think Savannah would have thrown out there that the two, like so casually, the two, I believe the two were real. I think it was her short form reference to the two that we know about. The first one went to TMZ and two local news outlets, and then the next one only went to the local news outlets. And I think Savannah was short forming. Those are the ones. Because she said the two we responded to.

And those are the ones that we were watching them respond to, at least we believe, on camera when the family did those like sort of hostage videos of their own. Like, please, please, please, proof what we need to know you have her. But the very obvious question is, then why? Why didn't you pay the ransom? If you thought that this guy really had Nancy, you could have paid reportedly $4 million on the Thursday of the demand or $6 million the Monday after that Thursday. And you didn't, as far as we know, we certainly have been led to believe they didn't pay it. Right. And that calls into question one other thing.

Okay, so let's say she believes, you know, we're debating, but let's say she believes those are, those notes are. those notes are real. And maybe there was no ability to provide a good sign of life because Nancy Guthrie had expired at that time. But let's say that they did decide to pay. You know, you can track that cryptocurrency as it moves through digital wallets. We talked about this on an earlier episode. You know, that would at least give the FBI an ability to try to find an eventual wallet that they they could track and potentially find the kidnappers. So if they believed that those were legitimate kidnapping notes, then paying would have given another investigative tool to the FBI. Yes. Okay. So James, do you want to weigh in on this? Yeah, I really did. Thank you.

Let's go back because I think your listeners are probably seeing the, seeing your clip, and then they're saying, And how does the brother go there that quickly? And it's very important. The brother-in-law? Savannah will talk about her sister's intuitive ability. But this is what's happening here is not only... Savannah's intuition, but her brother's intuition is pinging here. So what's happened is their, you know, intuition operates at the subconscious level faster

than a computer. And they're putting it together very quickly. Why? Because Savannah is a high-net-worth individual. More than likely, she's had a risk assessment. I know the people over at NBC. I'm sure they've done it. Everyone I ever do with a high net worth person like that, a highly popular person like her or you, I have an anti-kidnapping thing, right? We go through kidnapping preparation, mitigation, and we make sure the family has a plan. And we walk, like I walk through with a family, you know, things to do to not be kidnapped because of this kind of overflow from being related to a famous person. And they are pinged on it. They're like, this is what happened. And that's why she went. do you think it's because of me? Well, she knows. She's like, oh, God, because she's always live with that thought that that could happen. I'm sure her kids go through this. Her husband

goes through it. I'm sure Megan, you go through it all the time. But certainly, you know, she's been prepped and she knows as being in the limelight, kidnapping is a possibility. James, does your prep kit involve a Louisville slugger and your makeup foundation? Because my mother tells me that's what she's got at her front door. She's ready to go. She's got her bat. And she's going to look good. That's a start. That's good. That's called a plan. But certainly I'd like to help her with a little bit more. But that's definitely a good start. Yeah. I mean, I think a lot of us have shorn up the security around our loved ones in the wake of this. I mean, it's a tragedy, no matter how you look at it. And it is a crime. It's obviously a crime.

She obviously, I mean, I think anybody who is still wondering whether she wandered off can put that to bed. She did not wander off. She was incapable of the wander. I want to play one other soundbite for you guys to get your investigative input on it because there were more details about the crime scene included. In, I think it's here SOT 3 where she was describing the video, like how the family was able to make those videos and like what they were going through. She drops a couple of details in this sound bite, SOT 3. Let's hear them. And somehow together, we did our best to come up with the words to say. And I haven't posted one thing or said one thing that the three of us. of us haven't decided together. It is surreal. It's how is it possible that we are having to make a

video speaking to a kidnapper who took an 84-year-old woman in the dead of night in her pajamas with no shoes without her medicine, this little person, and to beg for mercy. Again, I'm sorry, but the active listening, the active empathy by Hoda Koppi, injecting herself into the moment is just so distracting and unprofessional. Randy, my question for you is, there you hear her say, we heard Savannah once before, say, taken from her bed in the middle of the night. Now, here she repeats the dead of night. and she adds in her pajamas with no shoes without her medicine.

So those are details we did not know. We actually did not know that Nancy was in her pajamas, and we did not know that she wasn't wearing shoes. Like, she seemed to me to be telegraphing the shoes and slippers that Nancy wears are all still there, not just like she would have been in her bed asleep and therefore wouldn't have had shoes on. She seemed to be saying, who would take an old lady in her pajamas without any shoes and no meds? And my note to myself here reads,

it does not sound like this person planned on keeping her around for long. Your thoughts on it. Yeah. So when we're talking about this portion of this interview, this did give us a little more information. And remember that there was DNA found at the scene. And my question is, what was the condition of the bedroom? did it show signs of struggle?

Were there, was the DNA found on the bed? You know, I hate to be the bear of, we've already got terrible news. Unfortunately, if we're going to be realistic here, there is a strong possibility that there was a sexual assault involved in this. there was a there this is not an uncommon occurrence that that situations like this occur when we talk about the DNA there was a combined DNA found um it's really imperative to know where was that DNA found was it something that was discovered on the bed you know she's now talking you know very cryptically about you know what she was wearing at the time this is these are these are serious clues here. But once again, we don't have the answers. We don't, we weren't given the

information. But this is critical information to the investigation. There's so much I want to go through on that answer and on Savannah's answer of referencing the pajamas and no shoes and without the meds. Let me just stay on that for one second because I do think that like there's a whole new reason to question whether this could have been a breaker and enterer. I feel like it may be ruled out. But I'll get to that in one second. Can we just stick James with the, now she's adding, it was the dead of night.

Nancy was in her pajamas. She did not have her shoes when she was taken. She did not have her medication. And so that coupled with Savannah's belief that this was a kidnapping for ransom, like does that jive, like those two data sets? Yeah, I think they do. The thing I was kind of wanting to hear was where did the blood begin? And I don't know if she's intentionally being cryptic and not saying that there was blood in that bedroom. Because, you know, all I've heard is that the blood is on the porch and in the driveway. But where did that start? The inference is what he hit her on the porch. If she had, I just was kind of wanting to hear some more details. And again, She may not, I think if she'd seen that or her sister had seen that, they would have told her.

And that would have obviously helped, you know, the immediate thought that they were going through. This is not what happened. She did not walk away. You know, there's stuff, there's something going on. But there was no mention of any blood in the bedroom, which is still very, and it's curious to me. Where did this injury happen? Right. And we don't, we don't know.

There could have been. Right. And we just don't know. No one so far has reported. that there was. And this is Ashley Banfield's latest reporting. She'd been reporting all along from her source, the one that everybody likes to crap on. But this guy early on told her a senior law enforcement source she said she had, who's familiar with the details of the case, that's the one who said that they were, that the prime suspect may be Thomas or Tommy,

Annie Guthrie's husband, early on the case. And that same week, we saw them tow away Annie and Tomas's car, and then later we saw them inside of their home at 10 o'clock at night. When it was dark, they turned off all the lights inside the home and started taking pictures. In any event, since then, we've been told, at least, our own Chad Ayers reported, he cited a rock-solid source. He has boots on the ground there that the family's all been given polygraphs and, quote, passed with flying colors. Okay, so that's where we stand.

But the question, but the same source that has become so controversial in Ashley Banfield's reporting, Every other thing he said has panned out. He said the back door was found open and it was. Now we hear Savannah say it herself. He said that the ring cameras were destroyed and we know that they're missing and that there was glass found on the front porch at least. And there's a little glass bulb on the front of a nest camera now. And he was the one who said their nest cameras, not ring cameras.

He was right about that too. And so it's just like her source seems like he knew what he was talking about, but everybody wants to dismiss that one piece about like this brother-in-law, quote, may be the prime suspect, at least as of that time. So Ashley has updated her reporting because the other thing he told her was that the blood drops we saw on the front porch continued inside the house someplace, that there were also blood droplets that looked the same inside the house. But she did not have where. I think most of us assumed that it would be right on the opposite side of that front door since they were on, you know, outside in the front stoop. And it turns out that's correct. But here's Ashley in her own words and her own reporting on Tuesday, Sat 16. We were told there was blood in the house, but I could never

find out where. Where did those investigators see it so that they knew there was something so dire that they had to bring in homicide investigators? And now I know, now I know where the blood is inside the house. And it is a fascinating piece of data because it is right in the front and entrance of the home. Front entrance, front hallway, whatever you want to call that front entrance, but the blood now in the front entrance of the home is a significant detail about this crime, just in the front entrance, not in the bedroom, not in the kitchen, not in the living room, not in that family room. The front entrance has a pattern of blood that is the same as it is outside and it goes over the threshold out the door. Okay, so correcting myself, she does report

no blood found in the bedroom. And actually, she doubles down on that here in SOT 17. Take a listen. And a common mistake a lot of investigators make is they hyper focus on the place where they first see the blood and they think this is where the attack occurred. And that is almost, I wouldn't say it almost always incorrect. Finding the blood in one room doesn't mean that that's the rule. where the, you know, the attack occurred or the incident occurred, you have to go back and you need to look for other potential items or artifacts to give you indications of what might have happened. All right. That's her guest, who is a bloodstain expert, Dr. Peter Valentin. So, look, we now know there was blood that continued inside, as you open the door right there,

and that Ashley's reporting there was no blood inside the bedroom. But there's an initial additional sound bite, I got to run for you guys. Because she does make a reference to how Nancy was taken. And it's when Hoda asks her about seeing the masked man on the front porch. Trying to see which sound bite this isn't on my list. Is it five? Yes, it is not five. Let's go.

I mean, it's just absolutely terrifying. Yeah. It's just totally. terrifying. And I can't imagine that that is who she saw standing over her bed. Right there. I can't. That's too much. And I'm glad and grateful to the investigators and the technology companies that were able to find that video, who I hope, at least with people of good heart and compassion stop the irresponsible and cruel speculation that had started to swirl. Let's talk about that for a minute.

I'm glad that people saw what came to our door. And we'll get to that second piece of it in a minute. But you heard the detail, right? Standing over her bed. That's a new detail. We heard from her bed. Now we hear standing over her bed. And that's why, James, I feel like, in my view, this was not a breaking and entering where, like, she just ruled out that Nancy Guthrie stumbled upon a burglar who was there to steal and got crosshairs in the crosshairs of this guy and then got taken. That's if what she just said there is no. then that's not true. And as you know, a burglar who's going into somebody's home in the middle of the night at 1.47 a.m. is not like, I'm definitely going to check the bedroom where the homeowner might be sleeping right now, right? It's like, I mean, maybe they would. Maybe I'm wrong. But she seems to be saying that the mother was taken from the bed, the guy was standing over poor Nancy, and then dragged her out of there. No purse, no phone, no meds, no meds, no.

shoes in the pajamas that she was wearing. To me, that does not sound like a breaker and an enterer. It sounds like someone who was there to get Nancy. Yeah. And I think kind of what Randy was saying, but this sounds much more nefarious. And I'd love to know how she, you know, does she know that? Did someone tell her, hey, we have evidence of footprints or something that he was standing over your mother before he did whatever he did? Or is she saying that. Maybe there is something on the bed sheets. What's that? maybe there is something on the bed sheets like maybe maybe there is something there that that leads them to believe that's where it all began yeah i think a couple weeks ago she said taken from her bed and you and i keyed on that Megan and now she's saying standing over her like watching her you know in with that mask and so now that's okay are you getting that from some investigator or is this something that you just believe you know like as a story that you're you're saying to yourself like okay this is probably what she was going through um because if if it's the

former that some investigators telling her, yeah, he's standing over her like a predator and prey. Okay, that's a whole different thing than Savannah is just, you know, thinking the worst and going, God, my mom went through this. And it was tragic to watch. And it does suggest to me, Eric, that when she said taken from her bed a couple of weeks ago, it was not an accident. That is what they believe, because here she doubles down, saying, standing over her in the bed, which may just be a figure of speech. You know, she's just sort of picturing how this went down. But either way, she's twice now said Nancy was taken from her bed.

And therefore, I believe that's what she believes. And therefore, I believe that's what investigators believe. And therefore, the theory that Nancy may have been wandering around and bumped into a burglar is out. Right. You know, if we trust what the sheriff believes. Yes, taken from her bed. So that does suggest that she, He's heard that from investigators that it began there in the room.

It disabuses the notion there were some theories early on that maybe he rang the doorbell and she came down to the door. Now with the door, the back door propped open and the whole taken from the bed. And, you know, the other thing that, you know, I think that Savannah wants to do is impress upon anyone listening the horror of the situation, not just for the family, but painting that picture that this person went into her mother's house, that her mother is a frail, small person, elderly, that he stood over her bed lurking there. That, I mean, that sinister image might stick in people's minds, and she may be hoping that someone feels that horror, feels that pain,

and decides to do the right thing and give a really good tip or clue that leads to, that leads the investigators to some fruitful point in the investigation. Randy, what do you make of it that the standing over her in her bed? I mean, we're getting an image now of how this thing went down. We have the pictures of the man on the porch. We know there was some sort of, if not a struggle. Something led Nancy Guthrie to start bleeding at some point once he got her. And we know that the original contact between the two of them appears to have been.

with Nancy asleep in her bed and the perpetrator coming over her and getting her out of there. No shoes, no change of clothes, no meds, no purse, no phone, no anything. So as you listen to that sequence of events, what does it say to you? I think we can completely eliminate the random burglar type of scenario here that was thrown out by a number of people. impossible. If you look at the statistical analysis of crimes in that area, you will find that there has not been a nighttime hot prowl burglary in that area in years. The burglaries that have taken place that have been reported have been mostly daytime burglaries. A burglar that- Now standing all those tapes we saw, Randy, of like random people looking in people's windows and so on.

Yeah, the reality is that when you look at. at the statistics, the real crime statistics, there hasn't been a nighttime hot prowl burglary in intrusion into a house in that area in recent memory. It just doesn't happen, especially in that area. Because remember, most of these homes are alarmed. They have, you know, surveillance equipment, and it's not something that is normally a burglar. Most burglars, if they're, if they want property, they don't want to have a conference. Are people going to be home during the day? They don't, right?

Right. So it's just nonsense to even think that this was a random burglar that happened to, you know, then panic and take her. Impossible. This was planned. I fully believe that there was definitely more than one person involved. I believe there was a driver involved as well. What we have not heard, and this is from a source that I have, is that that blood trail continued,

continued from all the way into the driveway. That indicates to me that that individual who committed this took Mrs. Guthrie, probably by carrying her through the home where the blood spatter was, there was a trail that went out into the driveway where they loaded her into a car and they took her. That's the most I've ever heard anyone say on how far out the blood trail went. We heard from Brian Enton, who got that video we keep showing that it was on the front stoop, the red brick area. Then Fox News showed us additional video of blood droplets on the gray, more gravelly-looking

path that we're showing here. You can see, thanks to Fox video of that. But no one has ever said it did, in fact, continue from there, over- to the driveway suggesting, I mean, I think we assumed that she didn't just vanish into thin air at that point, but like no one's ever actually said that. You're the first person to actually say that that I know of. Yeah, I developed that information not long ago from a source. So there's no doubt in your mind that she was put into a car. Absolutely no doubt in my mind she was put into a car. And of course, then that is a huge investigative lead that they have been clearly trying to follow up on. in requesting doorbell video, surveillance video, from convenience stores, from, you know, any entrances and egresses from that neighborhood. That's why it was so essential that they try and get as much footage as possible from

any surveillance cameras in that entire area. Because this didn't happen in a vacuum. You know, the car didn't, you know, suddenly appear. It was there. It had to go through the, neighborhood. It had to be there. It had to come in from one of the directions. So, you know, here's something that also has not been really spoken about. And that is the cell phone information from any of the cell phone towers. You haven't heard a drop about that. And that is

very, very curious because that tells me that this was planned to the, f-degree that they didn't have cell phones. And that in and of itself. The guy was clever. This is Eric's area of expertise. But the guy was, before I go to you to Eric, I want to stay with you on this, Randy, before we get to the cell phone thing. The back door being propped open, propped open.

That's different from open. It's like open, you just, whatever, you opened it, you walked in, you kind of forgot about. it and then you brought her out the front door. I think that's what we've been thinking. But if you propped it open, like to leave it open, you know, the way you would if you had someone coming in behind you in a few minutes, maybe, or you were carrying something heavy. You needed to get through the door. I don't, like, that to me, Randy, does potentially support another person being there, that you would prop it. I don't know, a lot of people have like an umbrella stand next to their door or a small little couch for people to sit down and put on their shoes,

or some of those doors have one of those little sliders that you can put on that will keep the door open. But you tell me why a guy there to potentially kidnap Nancy would prop the back door open. I'm just trying to think out loud. Like an accomplice to bring something more into the home or potentially out of the home, He thought he was going to maybe steal a lot and he wanted to not have to deal with the door. Or maybe he thought he was going to bring Nancy out the back and the plan changed. Go ahead. Well, this is why my question originally that we talked about is, did Mrs. Guthrie leave the prop the door open on a routine basis?

Like I said, for ventilation. The other possibility is we know that there was more than one individual. When you're talking about carrying a person out, it's not easy to do by yourself. You know, it's going to be a whole lot more efficient if you have more than one person doing that. And that would indicate, you know, keeping the door open for an accomplice. Eric, go ahead, because the cell phone situation, and now we're telling, like, if there's more than one person, and by the way, a retired Pima County homicide detective named Kurt Dab gave an interview to Parade Magazine. And he said he believes there may be two to four accomplices on this crime, saying the logistics of something of this magnitude is much too much for one person to handle, in my professional opinion, based on the facts as I know them right now.

So then that would mean no one brought their cell phone. Right. So I'm agree with Randy. There are certainly, there have to be multiple people. You're not just going to have one person go in and then abduct her and then bring her out. You know, where is the car? You're not going to want to leave the car while you go into the house. There had to at least be someone in the car.

And if you remember from some of our earlier interviews, you know, that blood pattern out along the walkway there was in sort of a straight line, which would suggest, I think I said earlier, that she might have been carried and it's dripping down behind. You know, one thing about the, before I get to the cell phone, before that back door being propped, you know, what's sort of? sort of stuck in my mind is you're going into a house and whether it's an abduction or what, but let's say it's a kidnapping, you know, maybe he propped the door because he didn't know what he was going to find and he was thinking, I got to get out. If I have to get out quickly, I don't want to be fumbling with a door. As for the cell phones, yes, you can ping cell phones. What the FBI and law enforcement can do is go to the cell phone provider and get the data for any cell phones that ping those towers. You can get a approximate location. You can get a approximate

location. So what they could do is check all of the cell phones that were hitting the area around that time and then try to... Wait, but Eric, can't they do the geo fencing where it's like they don't have to go through all that? They say, they have technology to say, show us which phones were in Nancy Guthrie's area. Yes. And around her property. Approximate area. So all they need to do is take the time and then they can have every phone that pinged around those towers. It's not completely approximate, but it's close enough, right, to say, this person doesn't live here and was there at that time of night. And clearly,

they don't have that data, which would suggest that these, the criminals didn't bring their phones, which is the smart thing to do. But what, you know, stands out for me is they would have had to be there at some point earlier to case the area. That's a very complex warrant of streets. So if they're going to get to that property, they would have had to be there earlier casing it. And I think that's one of the reasons they really wanted those doorbell cams and ring cams. any surveillance cameras from property because if they came through during the day, just to drive through to see, okay, here's how we get to the house, here's how we get out, maybe something got caught. And if you also remember, they were going back later and getting on ladders and actually pulling

physical cards out of those cameras just to see if there was anything that the people didn't report. Yeah. And it does make you, reminds me that now they're making clear they're interested also. in January 11th on the request for people to pull tape. Savannah mentioned that to a local news outlet in a statement recently, maybe because maybe the guy forgot to leave the phone at home every time. All right, Eric has to go, but James and Randy stay with me. There's much, much more to get to.

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Thanks for joining us. Megan, it's a trip down memory lane. It's great to be on it. Thank you. Totally. It's great to see you. Let me start by getting your perspective on the latest. These revelations that Savannah believes this was a kidnapping for ransom.

She reveals, doubles down on an earlier statement that her mother was taken from her bed in the dark of night. Here she says that this man could have just been a turn of phrase, which says was over her mother in the bed, you know, snatching her in the middle of the night, that she was taken without her shoes, that she was taken while in her pajamas and reiterating some details we did know, like didn't have her purse, didn't have her phone, and didn't have her meds. all of those are interesting investigatively and also adding detail about how the back door of the house was, quote, propped open. We believe by the perpetrator, though don't know that for sure. Coupled with Ashley Bamfield's reporting that there was a blood trail that continued into the front foyer area of the home, but not beyond. And that her reporting is there was no blood found in the bedroom. So your thoughts on where that leaves us in your theory? Well, first of all, I've been a detective for over 40 years, both in public service and private with the NYPD, and I was a robbery detective.

And I will tell you, as I sit here today, 53 long days later, I still do not know exactly what crime occurred. I don't know. I don't know. And that's based on publicly available material facts, interviews with various folks who have specific details, knowledge, data, intel. Still don't know. I don't know. Is it a burglary gun bad? Is it a robbery gun bad? A home invasion gone bad, which is an elevated robbery with force, is it an assault gombard, or is it a violent abduction? And every time I deconstruct and reconstruct this case, and I do, Megan, painstakingly, come to a wall because to support the violent abduction theory or construct requires three things. It requires a quotient proof of life, a transaction path, a pathway to make the transaction as well as a cogent demand.

And not any time whenever I've reconstructed and analyze this case, do any of them support that theory? Every time it falls apart. Unless this is the rarest of all the rare violent deductions, and they thankfully are very rare, a not-for-profit transaction, a not-for-profit, I still don't know what it is, because where's the request for the money? And this is 53 days later. Well, she's saying she believes those two, quote, ransom notes that TMZ and the other locals got are real.

That seems to be what she's saying. Some clarifying journalism would have been appreciated. But that seems to be what she is saying, that she believed those first two, which means this Harvey-Levin. announcement when he got the one was, if she's right, an actual communication from an actual kidnapper who

did have Nancy. Throwback here in SOT 37. So we got something in our email that looks like a it's written like a ransom note for Savannah Guthrie's mother. Specific. And they're very

certain amounts of money. Very specific. And also they say at the bottom, there are certain things they're saying about what she was wearing and damage to the house. That they're clearly saying to verify that we know what we're talking about here. So we are caught, we've contacted the sheriff's department and we want to get them this letter. And we had a little trouble getting through to the right person, but the person we spoke with is now forwarding this to somebody in the detective bureau. Again, we don't know if it's authentic.

if it's authentic or not. But when you read it, they're acting as if, yeah, only we would know these things. And we're serious. And there's a dollar demand and an or else in there. Okay. And we would later find out that the dollar demand related to being paid in Bitcoin. It was reportedly $4 million if they paid by that Thursday, $6 million if they wait until the follow-up Monday. and the family then came to the cameras and started begging for a negotiation. You know, first we had Savannah Guthrie with the talk to her and you'll see, you know, which were sort of eerie lines because that was exactly what a character in silence of the lambs said. Then she did reference the potential ransom note in that very first video Savannah did. Here is SOT 28.

We too have heard the reports about a ransom letter in the media. As a family, we are doing everything that we can. We are ready to talk. However, we live in a world where voices and images are easily manipulated. We need to know, without a doubt, that she is alive. and that you have her. We want to hear from you, and we are ready to listen. Please, reach out to us.

So that was after the ransom note had dropped with TMZ. And by the way, so that was Wednesday after the Sunday that she was discovered missing. So this is just days after. It was Wednesday. Then on Thursday, they dropped another one, February 5th, with the brother, Cameron Guthrie, alone. You remember that? And then by Saturday night, now we've missed the... Thursday deadline. By Saturday night, they dropped another one that sounded more almost

reconciled to the fact that Nancy might no longer be with us. Here's part of that. Stop 31. We received your message and we understand. We beg you now to return our mother to us so that we can celebrate with her. This is the only way we will have peace. This is very very, very, valuable to us and we will pay. We will pay. But they didn't pay as far as we know, guys. Like everyone was monitoring the Bitcoin account that, you know,

fortunately or unfortunately, the media had the numbers on. Harvey had the numbers on and the local news had the numbers on. And Harvey was able to see whether deposits had been made. And he reported that they had not been. So it did not, there's no reason to believe they paid the ransom, which I just don't understand other than, you know, James, they never got proof of life. So even though they believed the ransom notes were legit, I guess they just weren't going to pay it because I thought they don't, they're not going to return her or tell us where she is. They didn't trust that they had a good faith bargainer on the other side.

Yeah, I'm having real difficulty again with the thought that this individual took her and then he wanted to use TMZ as a go between to get his money. As if TMZ is, you know, the current Jerry Richardson of the negotiation of all, you know, things. And that's just crazy. I don't know that TMZ's ever negotiated the safe return of another individual. So why would they go through that? It doesn't stand. It doesn't make any sense. Well, the theory was that he, he, the kidnapper would have gone, that the three entities he chose all had, like,

tip lines. Like, they didn't send an email. They went, like, if you go to TMZ and you have a news tip. You know, like, Justin Timberley, just got arrested for DWI. You can type that in on their website, on a page without really, you know, I guess, any identifying information. But it would seem to me that the FBI can always find identifying information about where, from where you typed that page.

But maybe not, because here we are, seven weeks in. They never arrested that person. Correct. And, you know, again, we don't know that the FBI is in lockstep with the Pima County Sheriff's office in this investigation. We don't know that at all. We have, it seems to be a disparate investigation being done by two different agencies. But, you know, even if, you know, this interview, this clip you're showing of her and the family talking directly, if it's done correctly, you know, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it, but there's certainly going to be some coaching in the background by, you know, a negotiator from the bureau who explains to them what to say and how to say it.

it's extremely rare that they would let a family just, you know, independently, you know, negotiate or communicate with the person. They just don't work. They don't work it that way. And again, no proof of life, so why am I sending you money, you know? And I think she even alluded to that. There are a lot of people with bad souls that, you know, take advantage. And that's certainly what I still believe that theory is, is that people doing that,

you know, they picked up some information they saw in a video. you showed of you know uh nancy's home from years ago they would have had enough information to make it seem as though they they had inside information and they wanted to make a quick buck but what then why didn't they that's right isn't that one of the big questions like what do you think randy what if they had her even if she had died what there's a way of sending proof you have her a lock of hair, you know, something, something really specific you saw inside the house that would convince them you had her. I mean, even what Savannah's saying in the videos, the hostage videos, is like, we need to know you have her. They don't specifically say

proof of life. And even the reward that she eventually posted for a million dollars is for information leading to either, you know, Nancy, like alive or her remains. means or leading to the arrest of this suspect. Yeah, exactly. And I personally, when I look at these, the methodology utilized in reaching out to the family, it really doesn't make a lot of sense. Now, we do know that there were, remember, she alluded to numerous ransom demands. The two that she took seriously were these two.

But remember, there was an arrest made on another ransom demand that they were able to track. That was texted directly to, I think, Thomas, Tommy, the brother-in-law. And I'm curious as to the others that they received. Remember, there's a bunch of nut cases out there. They're going to jump into this that confuse the issue. And, of course, that takes resources away from the agency, whether it's the FBI or Pima County. but let's look at what has actually resulted. Nothing.

There's been no proof of life. If that was a reality, if these people truly had her, that would have been an easy thing to provide. And they didn't do it. So I'm not a believer that this was a ransom, that this was a legitimate ransom demand. I am a little curious as to how they have not been able to track that Those ransom demands.

And of course, you know, Pat said something, you know, that maybe this is a disparate investigation because we do know that the FBI and Pima County have not been in lockstep. In fact, you haven't even, the FBI, I've never seen them so absent from the news when it comes down to a high-profile case like this. That tells me. Yeah, that's true. That tells me that they aren't getting involved because of what's of the animosity between that, that sheriff.

I'm using that. I'm even using that word loosely, the sheriff there and the FBI. Things have gone to bad to worse for the sheriff. Now his, you look like you want to get on that, Pat. Beyond useless. I'll be honest, and it kills me. No one loves law enforcement more than me. This guy was not up to the task for a minute one.

He made every mistake conceivable from the onset, and won't get into the details of it. But he's surrounded by folks, I'm certain men and women who are very committed to protect and serve, who are fantastically loyal to the investigation. But there is a sad reality, and it's a supreme irony, Megan. And I know Randy and James know this as well. You live in an affluent area like the Catalina Foothills. the officers who are sworn to protect and serve you in that area, by virtue of the fact that there are no real crimes, certainly no crimes of this level of violence, they have no historical perspective. They've never done it before. They've never done it before. I've spoken to...

It's not like getting a Pat Brosnan assigned to your case. Or a James Hamilton or Randy Sutton or a John Doe who's been in the Bronx or in Harlem or in East Brooklyn and has done a hundred of them or 500 of them. or 500 of them. And that just comes down to legacy, experience, and expertise. And it is a supreme irony. It really is. The safest neighborhoods have the officers with the least experience. And no one wants to articulate it, but I will articulate it because I still think they're amazing, amazing folks, but they just haven't done it because they're in an area that's affluent and relatively crime-free. I have some- I have more on the sheriff. I have some insight into this particular subject. So by perspective, Tucson lies within Pima County. And Tucson is a very violent city.

They investigate about 55 murders per year. So they have a very experienced Homicide Bureau. In contrast, Pima County has about five homicides per year. And the sheriff in his infinite, him, fired or didn't fire, but reassigned the, most of the homicide unit who had investigative experience, he put him back in various assignments as a punishment to them. So in actuality, the homicide detectives are very, very inexperienced. One of them, from my understanding, has never investigated a homicide. And that's not being saying anything detrimental about them.

But it's as Pat said, especially homicide work, this is a learned skill. This is something that takes years to get expertise in homicide work. And that's why homicide detectives, when they're involved, they stay for 20 years. Because that experience is you cannot, there's no other avenue or being. No, you can't short form it. Exactly. I'm thinking as you're speaking about Brian Colberger, who was getting his Ph.D. in criminology. who made so many stupid, amateurist mistakes because you can't just study it.

You actually have to be on the job learning how to, in his case, commit crime, but in your cases, solve crime. And the sheriff's taking, I have yet to find somebody, literally, I've been looking, to say, this is not fair. The sheriff is a great investigator and a really good guy. Instead, no matter who you ask, they hate him. There was just a no confidence vote by the entire police union. Every single guy in it and gal voted, we do not have confidence in him. We don't want him. The county supervisor came out and gave an interview to Brian Enten saying, no, can't stand him.

In fact, I'll play some of that. He's like, he's talking about his beginnings back in 1980 from El Paso where it turns out he did some allegedly unethical things. And this is what Pima County supervisor, Dr. Matt Hines, said to Brian Enten and Sot 19. So it was eight suspensions in a little over five years. And it is kind of unusual to have any suspension for most of our officers. So to have eight in five years, this is a really troubling record. He was, frankly, a bad cop. Yeah, lots of dereliction of duty, tardiness, unnecessary force and discuracy, whatever that.

Okay, where is it? Excessive force, that one wasn't sustained. Habitual tardiness, excessive force, again, 15 days. And then eventually the next page for July of 82, insubordination and consistent inefficiency, which is like kind of one of my new favorite phrases, he was forced to resign in lieu of termination. The entire four-decade history of his presence here in Southern Arizona has been based on fraud. It is clear to me that he is not capable or competent to lead in this office. he is more than tarnished.

And I don't, that's not specific to any investigation. The most recent high profile one certainly has been shining light on things. I mean, those are rough allegations. The sheriff has previously sort of pooed what happened in El Paso, like, oh my God, you know, what do you want to get me? I'm like, my middle school grades next. Like, this is not a big deal. But the entire union being against him.

him. He's got some very senior ex-cops who've gone on the record in this case saying, not a good guy and not a good investigator. Now you hear the county supervisors saying, I mean, like, James, the list is long. Yeah, we talked about it, I think three or four episodes ago where you played the tape of him talking bad about the Bureau for investigating him and how he's the real cop. And, you know, again, I think it's always a bad thing if we're the sheriff of a very large organization is somehow leading a major investigation. That is not their role. Their role is to get resources. Their role is to talk to the media. Their role is to do damage control. Their role is to support the officers who are actually doing the work.

That's what you want from a sheriff or a chief. You do not want them working the case. That is usually, in my experience, not a good thing. And it certainly isn't helpful for the victims. Savannah was asked about the investigation, I mean, which obviously isn't going so well. And she threaded that needle just so. Take a listen here, SOT 8. How did your family feel about the way the investigation was conducted? Well, it's still going. Yeah. And people have worked tirelessly, tirelessly.

and we see that. But we need answers. We cannot be at peace without knowing. And someone can do the right thing. And it is never too late to do the right thing. Are focused on that. She was too smart to, you know, rip on the sheriff, who's currently got her mother's fate in his hands in some ways.

So she said, well, it's still going. That's her telegraphing. Like, I don't, I can't say anything bad. And a shout out to the people who have worked, quote, tirelessly on the case. I'm sure there are a lot of investigators who are doing everything night and day to solve this crime. But then a demand for answers at the end. And then finally a reach out to the kidnapper or abductor, whoever it is to say, please, it's never too late. It doesn't seem she has confidence in the sheriff.

And I have to feel for her, Pat, because what? When she got the news from her family that the mom had been taken, they thought, right? And she was in New York and she had to get on a plane and fly out to Arizona. The reports early on were that she called Arizona Democratic Senator Mark Kelly. And she said to him, you know, like this terrible thing has happened. And reportedly he vouched for the sheriff. Like, you're in good hands. You'll be fine.

And that kind of thing, you know, I'm sure that a U.S. senator would do that. maybe he knows Nanos and he's, Nanos is also a Democrat. It's kind of like, yeah, you're good, you're in good hands. Don't worry, he'll take care of you. I'll call him and I'll make sure he takes care of you. But it does make me think, you know, you're in that position that Mark Kelly's in.

You get a call from somebody like Savannah Guthrie about something a serious, like you have to make damn sure. You guys know this as actual cops. Like, you don't recommend you're in good hands with this particular guy unless you know he can do this. Like, if this is a friend of yours, it's Savannah Guthrie, I know if I called you Pat and said, God forbid something like this happened, you would not say trust this sheriff or this FBI agent unless you knew I could take it to the bank.

And I think something, my guess is that something went wrong here, that he recommended Nanos in a way Savannah came to trust Nanos. And this was placed in the hands of the wrong person. and I don't think the family leaned on him or the authorities strongly enough, not to blame them. I'm just saying I think they trusted him early on to get this out of his hands and into the hands of the FBI. Your thoughts? Well, I think so. First of all, her words were carefully chosen, carefully parsed. But I think this may be a case where the senator almost perhaps a leisure response relative to the competence of the sheriff. And then again, the sheriff who has, because I did some research on him, he has a,

A very checkered past in many ways. You mentioned no confidence and so forth. But because he had no history, again, again, Megan, supreme irony, no history of ever conducting any serious investigations. And this is extremely serious. So there wouldn't be any context or nuance, legacy nuance or context for the senator to lean into relative to his capabilities, right? So it's the perfect circle. It's a perfect circle.

Yeah, I think he, my understanding, he's a good guy. whatever that means. Yeah, it seems like a good egg. And he's leading that force. But again, no fact-based context that, yeah, I recall now when they had that triple murder, you know, three years ago, he led it efficiently and effectively. And he was able to develop the relevant intel data reports and facts and lead to, you know, arrest indictment conviction.

Nothing. The reason is nothing. It comes back to the circle of the affluence of the age. area and the virtual absence of serious and certainly super violent crimes. This one is suggested to be. You can never give you a recommendation unless you actually know, especially on something as important as this, like we needed a real cop at the head of this investigation, and it just doesn't feel to me like we have it.

We only have a short time left, but I have to get this in jumping back to Savannah Soundbites that probe where the investigation is and how she's feeling about it. Now, very clearly, Savannah does not believe any member of her family had anything to do with this. And that we understand, and it makes perfect sense. That doesn't mean the rest of us have to give them the same benefit of the doubt. I would expect her to defend her immediate family members. But she first time, this is the first time we hear her directly show her anger over the speculation, in particular about, I mean, it's been about Tamas, she calls him Tommy,

but she seems to suggest maybe. her brother Cameron also came under fire. Maybe that happened with some influencers that I don't know about. And obviously, Annie is married to Tommy, so she's been somewhat under the microscope because her car got towed by the authorities and impounded and kept for six weeks for investigative purposes. And because the cops kept going back to her house and taking pictures with all the lights out and taking items from her home, even though that wasn't the crime scene. So of course, people were like, what's going on with those two? And the husband, was the last one to see Nancy alive, you know, prior to the abductor. So here's Savannah, though,

lamenting the focus on the family in Sot 7. It's unbearable, and it piles pain upon pain. There are no words, no words, don't understand, I'll never understand. And no one took better care of my mom than my sister and brother-in-law. And no one protected my mom. And no one protected my mom more than my brother. And we love her and she's our shining light. She's our meteoric. She's all we have. I'm just going to say here again would have been a great place for some follow-up journalism. Tell us why you don't believe they had anything to do with it. And she might have been willing to answer. They all took polygraphs and passed with flying colors as we had Chad Air's report on our air a week ago. But we don't know what she's basing that on right now,

the question wasn't asked, the information wasn't provided. But James, you tell me whether there's been something irresponsible. Forget what the influencers do. They're going to say Savannah did it. The influencers are going to go, you know, so-called influencers, which are just going out there for clicks. I'm talking about actual journalists. And clearly she's mad at Ashley Banfield. And we've heard that. I heard that myself, that she's furious with Ashley and about the reports involving her brother-in-law. But you tell me whether it's irresponsible to take a look at Tommy and Annie. No, it's not. And, you know, we haven't, again, we have a lady who has not been found. And so we, it's a lead bucket. You know, we're, if we're working this case, we're going back to a number

of leads and friends, family is a lead bucket. And we have to look there, right? But unfortunately, what you have on the back end is you know the sheriff's already said, I've cleared them. So how do you, you know, we talked about this a couple of episodes ago. How do you clear somebody if you haven't solve the crime. So yeah, they might have an alibi for the actual night, but it doesn't mean they were always in an involvement that, you know, you don't find about later. So it's very difficult to say I've cleared somebody without solving the actual crime. So that's, you know, I think she's hearing, you know, both sides getting frustrated because wait, the sheriff said we're cleared and yet these people are still asking these questions. We have to look at it, okay? And there's a way to do that

in a way that doesn't seem, you know, terribly, listen to her trauma. She lost her dad when she was 16, I mean, it is dripping off of her. So any inference of anything that her family's done wrong here is going to be doubly compounded by all the trauma she's been through, right? I mean, I get it. I understand it. But obviously, you know, that's an area they have to look in. And then there's a number of areas that are looking in.

But, you know, we don't have anything. We are nowhere after 53 days. Yeah. And even she says, we have no idea. We don't know anything, she said. This is her theory that she's sticking with about an abduction, a kidnapping for ransom. But she explicitly says we don't know anything. But like what Pat's saying, sorry.

But Pat is right. You know, these communities that elect these folks, it's all fun in games until you really need a law enforcement person for a high profile crime like this. And when you're in these little sleepy areas and nothing bad ever happens, you know, and then it does, like we said, I think the first episode, it is highlighted. I mean, you have a flashlight of strobe light on you and your confidence or incompetence. And it is really, really difficult if you've never worked a case like this. And this is a tough one, right? And so, again, that's what Pat's talking about. And he's 100% correct.

And they're the victim of that. And she can't just go out, meaning Savannah, and just hire, you know, some expert to come in and take over the case. It does not work that way. Law enforcement has, you know, the primacy on it. So it's very, very difficult situation. I mean, I will say also, nor can she dictate what the media is going to speculate about because I'm sure there are major downsides to the family of the media being so interested in the case. But the upsides are far more important and considerable.

Like the media interest in this case, if anything, is what's going to get it solved. Is what's going to keep the pressure on, Nanos, his department. It's why we have the vote of no confidence. They don't normally just run to the microphones in any given case that the sheriff isn't solving and say, we don't have confidence in this guy. You need to know he's not up to the task. You know, the media is bringing all the pressure. It was the one misstep, I would say Savannah made in this interview, and there was no other,

was where she complained about how the family had to move locations, I guess more than once because there were media outside. And she talked about how it was like in the dark of night. We had to get in a black car. you know, in the desert. Okay, like they got into a chauffeur-driven limousine and were taken to this stunning multimillion dollar mansion in the hills

with an Olympic-sized swimming pool. They were fine. They were better off in that other location than being on such a busy road where the media could obviously go. The media is a blessing in a case like this. Yes, there's some downside, but net net, it's not even 50-50 blessing curse.

They're a blessing. Every family with a missing person out there would pray to God to have the kind of media coverage that this case has gotten. They would pray to God. So you can't complain about the media, which is your best friend. Here's the last thing I want to end on.

This was the one that actually moved me the most. And she talked about the one conversation in which she actually, of her life, she said, in which she actually heard from God. Like she actually heard him speak. and here it is in SOT 12. Early on, I felt that I heard

of one of the very few times in my life. I did hear God speak to me. As I said to myself, I can handle anything, God, I can handle anything. I just can't handle not knowing. We can't handle not knowing. Yeah.

I have to know. And I heard a voice. And it said, You do know where she is. She's with me. She's with me. So whether she is on this earth still, or whether she is in heaven,

I know where she is, I know who she's with, but we need to know. That's awful. That really brings home what the family's been going through and the horrors of this crime. You guys, having heard everything at this point, you know, about 60 days in, do you think

we will ever have answers? Are we actually going to find Nancy Guthrie? Pat? I don't know. This is, I don't know. But what I do believe, Megan, is that Savannah wasn't speaking to the offenders. She was speaking to the circle around him. And I've maintained this from a while.

while, not just with the 41 second video, but everything else surrounding the fact that there are people who know that walk. There are people who know that movement. Someone cuts his hair. Someone serves Starbucks to that guy. Someone does the dry cleaning for this guy. It's very clear to me that the mask actually revealed him more than concealed him to the extent that his mustache line, his eye set, all the things that happened when he turned 360. I believe that dozens and dozens and dozens of people know precisely who that is. But this started off on the wrong foot. It was a $2,500 ransom, which is a direct insult to snitches around the world.

Reward. You've got to be kidding. Reward. Beyond horrific. Beyond horrific. Didn't move the needle. I had snitches. You got to pay them.

That's the way it works. Don't know the answer. I have my own theory. I don't really like to publicly articulate it. for bad karma relating to whether she's alive or not. But the reality is we may never know because those dozens of people are hesitating to pick up their phone and call even with a million bucks lying in a balance. So either this is an extremely dangerous person that maybe it's not worth getting your

throat slid at a later date for the buck of the ruse. I don't know beyond confounding. Nothing. Bottom line, nothing adds up. Nothing. What do you say, Randy? Well, I want to go back just for a second to the sheriff. And I don't know if you're aware of this, but he is currently under investigation, currently under investigation for election interference by the Attorney General for his conduct during the last election when he was elected. And also, the vote of no confidence by way of perspective. that came before this investigation.

The deputy sheriff's union voted that no confidence vote before this investigation took place, which gives you the reality of the morale within that agency and the distinct lack of respect that the working cops actually have in that sheriff. So that just gives you a little more perspective. He's currently under investigation. I have all the details. That would suggest to me you do not have high hopes for finding Nancy. I don't know.

I'm going to be less circumspect than Pat. I believe that this is a homicide. I believe that there is a strong possibility that there were cartel people involved in this, that this was farmed out to them. And that's why they're not in a DNA database. And I have my doubts that this. this will ever come to a successful conclusion for an investigation. And why do you think they did it, Randy, in this theory?

Well, what are the motivating factors for these type of situations? Greed, lust, money, hate, revenge. It's one of them. How about you, James? You think we're going to find her? No. I think it's going to be like one of, cases I've worked where, you know, this happens. The longer this goes and you have nothing and you have no leads and you have no person of interest and no interviews are being conducted, the longer this goes on, this could be a situation where, you know, we'll talk about this for 20 years, whatever happened to her, you know, I've seen it. I've seen it happen. I can name the cases.

And it's tragic and it's terrible. But that's what I get the feeling. You know, we don't have We should have things. This is 2026. There are things we should have right now that we do not have in this case. And the longer this goes, the less and less, you know, optimistic I am. There's one other piece of information I forgot to give you, Megan. And this is very recent, this is very recent from my sources, that that massive investigation where there were, you know, hundreds of investigators working on it has now dwindled to a task force of. people. It was bound to happen. There's no way they could keep that kind of manpower on it. But it's very disturbing that while they had that manpower, they got us to a place where there appear to be no suspects.

That's another thing Chad Ayers was told by his rock solid source boots on the ground. No suspects. None. I mean, that's not great seven weeks in. At least in Brian Colberger, when we were ripping on the Idaho police officers, we as like, what's going on? They haven't told us anything. they had Brian Colberger. We just didn't know it. They were surveilling him. They were following him back to his home in the Poconos. They were getting a warrant to go into his home right before Christmas. Here, the reporting is they have no suspects. It's not even like they're narrowing in on the guy. None of that is good. And you can feel the family's being. You know what's amazing. Thanks so much. Thank you. And James pointed out, and I'll leave on this final note, I kind of promised. We should have a lot more. This is not.

1996. I could not agree more. I won't get into the litany of investigative tools and the litany of data and the tsunami of intel and information. And there's nothing. Nothing. It's beyond bizarre. It's like a ghost came in and a ghost vanished. And we know there's not ghosts, but this is a, this is a strangest case I've ever personally, you know, I was say investigated from, you know, third party. But it's unbelievable. So I concur. There's so much we should have. and we have nothing. Zip, zip, zip. Zip, Zil, it's not a.

That, that ghost comment gave me a chill. I don't know. That's like, that was eerie. Right. It is like that. I mean, we saw the ghost on the front steps of her porch, but you're right, somehow he did vanish and Nancy along with him. Guys, lots of love.

So much appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you all for us. Thank you. For being here. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, James, I'm calling you, calling you for your kidnapping protocol. As much as my mother's foundation may protect her from looking bad.

Anytime. You know it. Take care. Yeah. There's more in place. Just to any bad guys out there, there is more in place. But that was her original plan. So more of this Savannah interview is going to air on the Today Show tomorrow.

It's amazing. They broke it up into two parts, first hour, a second hour today. Now there's another part, part three, that's going to air tomorrow. Plus they're turning it into a dateline. I'm like, like you can't. They're going to milk it for all it's worth over there. That's why they kept Hoda's mic up. that's why she behaved the way.

I'm like, this is theater for some people involved. It's not theater for Savannah Guthrie or any of the Guthries. And my heart goes out to them. The other thing that was interesting was Carson Daly at the end of the piece on the set confessed that none of them has been in contact with Savannah throughout this entire thing. Haven't I been telling you? I mean, no one's been talking to her? Great.

But it's one big happy family. That it's a one big happy. Trust us. and also continue to tune in to the Today Show every morning between 7 and 9 a.m. on NBC. I mean, that's what you're looking at from the cynical network bosses, not talking about Savannah here, who is genuinely in need of our help. All right, coming up next, former Illinois governor Rod Blagojevich on what he thinks the Illinois officials may be doing with respect to this illegal who killed poor Sheridan Gorman.

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There's no obligation, just useful information. With an A-plus rating with the Better Business Bureau and tens of thousands of happy customers, let Birch Gold help you diversify with gold. Now that's peace of mind. Again, text MK to 9-8-9898 today. The family of Sheridan Gorman is responding to the Democrats who continue to downplay her horrific murder. 25-year-old Venezuelan

illegal immigrant Jose Medina allegedly shot 18-year-old Sheridan in the back last Thursday as she fled after he emerged, masked, and dressed in all black on a pier. She was out to see the northern lights, her family says, with her

friends, and Sheridan, who tried to get away from this maniac, was shot in the back and then pronounced dead at the scene. Chicago's radical leftist mayor Brandon Johnson refused to apologize to the Gorman family and called her murder, quote, just senseless violence. The Gorman family responding with, quote, the following. What happened to Sheridan cannot be reduced to a senseless tragedy, nor can it be explained in general terms about public safety.

Sheridan was our daughter. She was 18 years old. She was doing something entirely normal, walking near her campus with friends. she should be here. Calling this senseless is not enough. There must be a clear and honest accounting of what went wrong. We will not allow Sheridan's life to be reduced to a talking point or a generalization. We expect leadership that is willing to confront hard truths and ensure that what happened to her does not happen again.

In reaction to Governor J.B. Pritzker's ex post calling the murder a tragedy without mentioning the suspect's immigration status. status, the Gorman family responded again, writing, quote, Sheridan's death cannot be reduced to a general tragedy, nor can it be explained away by broad references to failures somewhere else. Sheridan was a daughter, a sister, and a young woman whose life was taken in a way that should never have been possible. We're not interested in political arguments or in watching responsibility shift from one place to another. If there were failures, as the governor himself is acknowledged, then every one of them must be identified, examined, and addressed directly. The location of those failures matters less than the willingness to confront them honestly.

Our daughter is not a policy debate. She is a life that was taken and that demands accountability. And now a photo has emerged online, which some speculate shows Medina. It looks exactly like him to us. Holding up a gang sign for listening audience. it's like he's got the four fingers of his left hand showing, and the ring finger is bent in half. So it's like the pinkies standing out,

then the ring finger is bent in half, and then the middle finger and the index finger are showing. And that's apparently a gang sign, which has led to a lot of questions about who this guy is and what he was really doing on the pier that night. Now, he's due back in court tomorrow after missing his detention hearing Monday, reportedly because he's been hospital,

with tuberculosis. A former governor of Illinois, Rod Blagojevich, wrote the following on X. Sheridan Gorman's killer is being held in isolation. I suspect Pritzker and the Dems are hiding him to cover up the fact that this illegal immigrant killed an innocent young girl as part of a gang initiation. I know gang bangers and how they operate.

I lived with them for eight years. And I know Pritzker and the Dems. Bet you I'm right. Blikoievich there referencing the time he spent in federal prison on corruption charges before being pardoned by President Trump. He came on this show after all that and we had a fascinating discussion about it. The former governor joins me now. His new book, Famed, Eft, and Freed, A Governor's Odyssey is out in August and available for pre-order now. Great to see you, Rod.

Thanks for coming back on. Please come on when your book hits too and we can talk all about it. But why do you think that this might have been a gang initiation? Well, I'm almost completely convinced that it was. I know this subject all too well because of my unhappy experience, 2008-196 days in prison, sheltering in place with crips and bloods, gangst, gangstores, seen law a cartel drug dealers who look up to the gang lord El Chappell like my daughters look up to Taylor Swift.

I was in prison for the first three years with a man who committed murder. So I have an unhappy experience working with those guys. and knowing how they operate and gang initiations are very much a part of the gang is not only in prison but in real life. So I have, frankly, little or no doubt that, but what happened here was that. And the facts suggested that the group of kids were running away from this guy who appeared. He was dressed all in black. And then he decided to shoot poor Sharon in the back. I think it hit her in the back of the neck.

It had to be because he had to prove himself to the gang he was trying to join. One of the most disgusting parts of the story is the fact that he should have never been here in the first place. He's among the hundreds of thousands of criminal illegal aliens who broke into our country illegally. It was also in custody a couple of years before for shoplifting, but the no bail laws that the Democrats love let him out. And there can be no other motive for doing something like that. So based on all of the facts and circumstances that we know, my own life experience, I'm perfectly convinced that this was a gang initiation, the only explanation for him shooting her and killing her and not shooting at anybody else. Right, because it seemed like he targeted her, but there was no explanation for why.

Like, there wasn't an altercation. There was, as far as we know, not an attempted, like sexual assault or anything like that. He just got his eyes on her. She sensed danger. He had a gun. He had a black mask on. she ran and her friends ran too and he shot her in the back. I mean, so you're citing the determination to take a life on his part as evidence that

that in and of itself had purchased for him. That's exactly right. He was instructed by the gang you wanted to join to do that and kill somebody. I saw it in prison. These guys would, the Latino gangs in particular, these guys, the new inmates would be required to do certain things in violation of the rules to prove themselves to their car, which is the gang, were. in prison. And the politics of this, I know, because that was a Democratic governor.

Well, wait, standby. Stand by. Stand by. I want to talk all about that. Forgive me, but we're at a time on the serious XM. Okay. One o'clock hour, but we're going to pick back up on the two o'clock hour in five seconds. We'd take a quick break. We'd be right back with the governor. Let's be honest. America can still be a dangerous place. And you cannot afford to wait for help when you need it. Sure, you could use a firearm. But in today's America, defending yourself with deadly force could have legal consequences. According to FBI data, 99.9% of all altercations do not require lethal force. And that's exactly why many are turning to Burna. Burna is proudly American, hand-assembled in

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Protect your future. Visit berna.com right now or your local sportsman's warehouse. That's B-Y-R-N-A.com or your local sportsman's warehouse. Visit now and be prepared to defend. Hey, everyone. It's me, Megan Kelly. I've got some excited. I now have my very own channel on Sirius XM. It's called the Megan Kelly Channel,

and it is where you will hear the truth, unfiltered, with no agenda, and no apologies. Along with the Megan Kelly show, you're going to hear from people like Mark Halperin, Lake Lauren, Morin Callahan, Emily Jashinsky, Jesse Kelly, real clear politics, and many more. It's bold, no BS news, only on the Megan Kelly channel, SiriusXM 11, and on the Sirius XM app. Former Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich is back with me now. We are discussing the murder of Sheridan Gorman and why the former governor believes that this illegal immigrant who is accused of killing her may have done so as part of a gang initiation. So you're saying in prison, did you just have to commit a crime in order to join a gang or go so far as to commit a murder? No, no, I never saw anybody get murdered as part of a gang initiation in prison.

but I saw several instances over those unhappy nearly eight years of some of the gangbanger inmates who had to, they had to become part of the larger gang and they had to prove themselves to be part of the group. And they were required to go out and do certain things. They were against the rules, whether they were crimes or not, really didn't matter, whatever the prison rules were. They were instructed to go break them. It could have been, for example, get the first game. kick in against another inmate who was part of the group who had done something outside of the,

you know, the gang's requirements. They would do this thing called group justice where they would all gather together and each member of the group would strike a blow against the fallen misbehaved gangbanger. So this kind of stuff is sort of tradition and culture and it was very common there. And you know, I grew up in a rough and tough neighborhood when I was a kid growing up. wasn't exactly immune to how street gangs operated either. And what I see with this particular case cries out to me that it had to be a gang initiation. What other motivation that this guy have to kill that poor innocent girl, like he did, where he did, dressed as he was. And the fact now that they're keeping him in hiding, which I really believe they're doing, would suggest

that they know exactly what the motivation was. That's why they have. They have a make place. explain that because what we've been told is he missed his first court appearance because he has tuberculosis and he was hospitalized and is reportedly being kept in isolation in any event in the prison. So why is that suspicious to you? Well, I believe the Democratic Governor Pristair said the word down that they wanted to not change the narrative that the Democrats have had when it comes to illegal immigrants because what this does is it blows up the narrative. And what it does is it shows that everything President Trump's been about and what he's been trying to. to do to rid our communities of criminal illegal immigrants is very real and that they are here committing very real crimes like killing innocent young girls. This goes against their narrative and it goes against the narrative not just the governor Prisker or mayor Johnson, but against

the entire Democratic Party today. And it's among the reasons why I think. How would keeping him in isolation you solve this problem? Well, I think the isolation is the holding pattern until the smoke settles and they can get past this being front page news and just basically bury it under the rug or hide it in the closet. That's what I very much believe. And I do know that Democratic judges here in Cook County are susceptible to sometimes getting the word from on high and making decisions outside of what is right or wrong. Is there a possibility of if he's a gang member and he gets, you know, thrown in prison pending a trial or obviously in here, I think it would just be the arraignment, that he could be in danger from other gang members, worried he might squeal or, you know, is that a thing? That is a thing. And you're asking a very good question. Yes, of course, that's the thing. And I saw that happen too during those eight years or from time to time somebody who was a snitch. The mantra in prison is snitches or bitches who get stitches. They would be punished for,

doing that and I even was told the story about someone who had been murdered in the person I was in when I first got there only two weeks before because that guy had been the recipient of a hit that came out from the Cina Law Cartel drugs because that guy was going to be a I guess testify against some of the activities of the Cina Law Coral Drugs, drug dealers. So no, I think all of this fits in with that experience that I had, the narrative, because the other side of it is that this was just some random killing. He decided to just shoot some innocent person and nobody else. With only a shoplifting crime on his record, not a violent past, at least not here in America

that we know of. So, yeah, he went from zero to 60 fast. But you're right. If you add in the gang element, maybe it makes more sense. And then we see this picture of him. This was posted on X by a site that goes by Moore, M-O-O-R, real news. They have no website. They only post to X.

And this is the only post about Medina. It reads as follows, Jose Medina Medina. They purport that the date of this photo is June 11, 2023. Picture taken outside of the Leone Park Beach, 1-2-222-West Touchy Avenue, Chicago, Illinois, where the city of Chicago and older woman Maria Haddon housed Jose, as suggesting he lived on public assistance, 200 feet from where Sheridan Gorman was murdered. And so this is what all they posted him in what we believe is a gang sign. And we actually just did a little research on this per a handbook for the Institute of Police, which is based out of Florida. They recognize this thing he's doing with this hand as a gang sign. It stands for insane vice lords, which actually makes sense because the pinky looks like an eye. And then you've got the other two fingers looking like a like a V. And I suppose the index finger and the thumb could be an L. Insane. vice lords. They're called that or they're called the almighty vice lords nation. The Department of Justice

says that this enterprise began in Chicago, which is still considered its headquarters, has a bunch of different divisions now. They became one of Chicago's largest and most influential street gangs, heavily tied to narcotics. And per a 2015 handbook from the Florida Department of Corrections, they write that members often have tattoos. either on their hand below the thumb to identify themselves or as a protective mechanism for members facing possible jail time. We don't see a tattoo here. Oh, we do? On Medina? Where is it? Oh, we do see one right below his thumb. Oh, my God. Yeah, we do see one. Dang. Yeah, we didn't see it in the hand making the gang sign, but we do see it in his right hand holding a phone and decked out in Bling.

And his other hand is decked out and blinged, too. He appears to be wearing what's probably a fake Rolex. I don't know what he's wearing, but he's blinged out. He's got the hoodie sweatshirt on. He's got the Michael Jordan cap. That's a thing. The Michael Jordan cap. Michael Jordan clothing.

We saw this with, what's his name over in Maryland? Maryland man, Kalmarabrigo Garcia. And he's with another guy wearing a hoodie, a red hoodie next to him. So there's some circumstantial evidence of that. maybe this guy is in a gang. He got here in 2023 and promptly joined a gang. Great job. Great job, Joe Biden.

What's really sickening is the fact that he's being protected by the Democratic Party. He and others like him. They have become the priority of the today's Democratic Party. Governor Prisker's gone to war with the President of the United States to protect guys like him. And they don't want to change the narrative. That's why I firmly believe they're doing what they can to try to keep this low, keep him hidden. and not allow the narrative that's truthful to come out. What's interesting, Megan, is Loyola University,

and I know this area real well because I live actually not that far away. My daughters have walked on that beach. But Loyola University has a student newspaper, and they came out today with an apology, essentially an apology, apologizing that he was referred to. Jose Medina Medina was referred to for what he is in the illegal immigrant. And they apologized for the use of the phrase, illegal immigrant. They didn't express any condolences to Sheridan Gorman or her family. It was just

trying to, I guess, make it right with the immigrant activist community that has become part now of the mainstream of the Democrat Party. And they don't want any narrative that goes against how they're trying to describe the circumstances of all these people came to America in violation of the law. Now, 10 to 15 percent of them, the best estimate, according to the Bureau of Justice, statistics, are criminals. All the others have come here. They broke the law. They're probably not criminals. They're trying to work to make a better life for themselves. But whether they're criminals or not, they came here illegally. And if we're going to be a country that respects the rule of law, well, I mean, we have responsibilities to enforce that law. The Democrats have decided to block the enforcement of that

law for their political agenda. And this guy is now caught up in that political game that the Democrats are playing. I mean, I guess we'll find out because if he was in a gang in 223, then he probably wasn't doing a gang initiation in 2006. But there is some circumstantial evidence here that the guy was flirting with the gang life, possibly in gang life, and in the absence of any other motive on this horrific crime, which makes no sense you've got to at least go there. You have to investigate it. And here's the thing. As Julie Kim, Kelly, who's done great, great reporting on the federal judges and what they're doing to President Trump's agenda.

And in particular, how they tried to stymie his attempt to get out Venezuelan. That's what this guy is. Venezuelan gang members and Judge Bosberg in Washington, D.C., issuing a national injunction stopping it. She tweeted out the following. She wrote, she finds the tuberculosis isolation suspicious. And she says this photo that we're showing you, if it's him, could raise the possibility that Sheridan's execution was part of a gang initiation. She writes, if this animal is Trenda, Aragua, God help every single activist group and judge, starting with Jeb Bosberg, who blocked his deportation.

Because remember, Trump tried to get all Trenda Aragua out of the country and back to Venezuela in one fell swoop, and Bozberg stopped it. And she pointed out, I want to talk to you about Democrat politicians for sure. including Pritzker and Brandon Johnson, the mayor. But let me just play you this Julie Kelly sound, but she went with our pals Real Clear Politics. Great podcast and precedes my own show here on the MK channel and Sirius XM Channel 111.

And she made a great point about how the judges too are complicit in allowing these Venezuelan illegal gang members to stay in our country. Whether this guy is one or not, they have permitted people just like him to stay here with impunity. Listen to her. One other party that I think is very culpable in all of this are federal judges.

Think about what's happening in Washington, D.C., with Chief Judge Jeb Bosberg, who basically was the first judge to put a hold to put a brick on the president's Alien Enemies Act proclamation that authorized the immediate removal of Venezuelan's illegal. Venezuelans who were here who were tied to trend their Agua. Not only did Jeb Bosberg put a hold on that policy that then manifested nationwide. To add to that, Jeb Bosberg is still, in this case is still pending, trying to order the Trump administration to fly these 137 illegal Venezuelans men who were then sent to El Salvador then to their home country of Venezuelan, to return them to the United States. States still now a year later, the Supreme Court punted on this. We're still waiting for a final

ruling. But when you have judges and even the Supreme Court sort of look the other way as the president and his administration are trying to remove the most dangerous criminals who cross the border illegally during the Biden administration, what does that signal to the illegals who are there? It's such a good point, Rod. Look, let me firmly assert, to borrow from Franklin Roosevelt, Jose and Medina Medina is a gangbanger. Let me also firmly assert that the chances are that he's a member of Trenda Aragua

are extremely good. And the most compelling evidence to suggest that to me is how the Democrats are treating this particular heinous crime against this poor, innocent young girl because of the fact that that goes against everything they've been saying with regard to illegal immigration and personal. proves everything that President Trump's been saying. That's what I really believe is happening.

And I think Pritzker's made the phone calls, you know, to the judges and whoever else is necessary, the prosecutors to do what they can to try to keep this quiet and not let the truth out. Well, let me let me add another element to it right now because J.B. Pritzker wants to be president. He wants the nomination and he wants the top job. This could completely sink his chances. This truly could be the death now.

to his presidential campaign. He rejected President Trump's offer of help to try to get the illegals out of Illinois. Even before the Minneapolis riots and all that, Trump went to him and said, I want to send ICE in to help you with your illegal immigration problem. And he wrapped himself in the flag and tried to pretend it was the patriotic thing to do to refuse that help and to instead protect the illegals, including Jose Medina, Medina. Here is what Governor Pritzker said. It's like a little montage, I think, about Trump, when Trump was making that offer and actually trying to insist that he'd be allowed to clean up the streets of the illegals.

Here's what Pritzker said. What President Trump is doing is unprecedented and unwarranted. It is unconstitutional. It is un-American. Find a family who's enjoying today sitting on their front porch and ask if they want their neighborhoods turned into a war zone by a wannabe dictator. Our small businesses suffer when our residents and visitors who are shopping and eating are made to feel unsafe by the jackbooted thugs roaming around a peaceful downtown. Make sure that you understand that the ICE officials don't have a right to knock down doors and to take people away. We're thinking of you and doing everything we can to protect.

Thank you. So this is dangerous. They shouldn't be doing it. It's anti-American. It's un-American. It's an attack on the American people by the president of the United States. It's like it's become some sort of secret police force for Donald Trump. I'm saying we don't want troops on the streets of American cities. That's on America. Eight months later, Sheridan Gorman was gunned down by an illegal from Venezuela, who for all we know might have been caught by Tom Homan's guys. Had they been allowed to get rid of the illegals prowling the streets. This, you can, the campaign ad writes itself. You're a politician.

Can't you see it? This is very dangerous for J.B. Pritzker. And that's the motivation to do everything can to cover this up. And then look at his behavior in the immediate wake of this murder. He didn't say anything for four days. It wasn't until, you know, the pressure was on. People had noticed he hadn't said anything that he actually had a spokesperson put out a statement.

He didn't even say it. Brandon Johnson, same thing. They were just hoping it would kind of go away and not become a political issue that now it has correctly become, because this really highlights the question. Is it about public safety first? Is that the responsibility of governors and mayors and presidents? Or is it about protecting gangbangers? And gangbangers from other countries who work into our country illegally.

That's the issue. And the Democrats have sided with the latter. Trump has sided with the former. We have laws, enforce those laws, and execute. those laws. But Prisker has spent his entire second term using all of his resources and energy to try to make himself a viable presidential candidate on the backs of public safety of law-abiding citizens, including this poor young girl. And you're right. It's all about his campaign now. And if this blows up on him, he's done on arrival. But I must say, like, Megan, I know him

real well. He's to work for me. He's not going to be president, even if this doesn't blow up on him. Why? Well, because he's he's flawed in so many ways. Now he's, you know, he's been dropping weight. I know you know that. He's doing a Zempic. He's totally on a Zempick. It's obvious.

There's no question about it. He won't admit it. Clemsy's walking five miles a day. I've eaten lunch with this guy. Sure. And, you know. Let me guess. It's his, it's his clean water regimen.

Right. Anyway, I shouldn't make fun of him personally. I mean, what he ought to do is make answer to that because it clearly works. But what he shouldn't be is our president. He shouldn't be our governor. And it's a disgrace what they're doing. And I shouldn't joke about this because we lost a young life. I think about those parents.

I have two young daughters myself. We can all who our parents sort of walk in their shoes and understand what they're going through and pray that God has a warm, loving place for her nearer to him. But this should have never happened. It should have never happened if they simply followed the law instead of played politics. But Pristair politicized this. Brandon Johnson politicized this. The Democrats have politicized this.

And now I think they've got a real political problem on their hands. Brandon Johnson continues, just like Pritzker, to blame Trump. It's like it's one thing to not take responsibility for your city and state policies, but to blame a president who is actively trying, who has actively tried to put ICE agents in your city and state in Chicago, to clean it up of illegals, to turn the nerve of the gaslighting that is like, epic level. Here's Brandon Johnson on Tuesday, SOT 54. You know with the bigger threat to our public safety, it's illegal weapons that are being trafficked from

from bordering states that voted for Donald Trump. This president refuses to be held accountable. And he points the finger at everything and everyone else versus doing some real self-reflection on what his responsibility is, so let's just stick with the word that you like to use, illegal. He has promulgated illegal wars. He is protecting states that are releasing illegal weapons throughout the streets of America. Illegal tariffs.

If there is anything to address in this country, that's illegal, it's everything about the Trump administration. That's, it's just he tries to be. pivot. He doesn't want to take one bit of responsibility or even Rod to apologize. He was asked yesterday, we found the name of that great reporter who asked him a tough question about, do you want to apologize to poor Sheridan Gorman's family for the policies that got her killed? And his name is William Kelly, no relation, but very proud of him. And he wouldn't. He just kept going, oh, it's just senseless violence, senseless gun violence and Trump's fault. I mean, part for the course, a day ending and why for Democrats in Chicago, no?

Well, we have a, the local altar woman from that neighborhood said he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. She shared it was in the wrong place of the wrong time. Chicago sometimes did I have a headline saying the same thing. This is all the Democrat narrative. And it's interesting, too, because it's not uncommon for politicians when they're, you know, facing something that they did really wrong or failed in their duty, which is the case with Johnson and Prisker to quickly pivot and point the blame at somebody else, which they're now doing.

Let me point this out, Megan. Days before this killing, Prisker had announced a commission that he's forming to investigate who, ICE agents and law enforcement officials so that in the event that a Democrat president in 2008, they're going to be held accountable for doing their jobs enforcing the law to find illegal immigrants, many of whom are criminals, and kick them out of our country. So now this happened and it sort of steps on his storyline and just goes to show you where their priorities are. I can't even believe. He's done. That these people are elected on. He is. No, he is toast. There is just no way. The Democrats really want to win in 2028. They are really, really over the Trump presidency and the Trump legacy.

And they are not going to nominate somebody with this level of baggage on this issue. They need somebody who can go up there and make the case of the horrors in Minneapolis, ice overreach. They're disgusting pigs. We hate them. And they do not want somebody who's going to be vulnerable to. because you wouldn't let that horrible group come in and help the young women of Chicago, Sheridan Gorman is dead. They can't.

He's done. The more I look at this story and see his on-camera comments, like the ones I played for you, over and over there's a litany of them, the more I realize he's toast. He is toast and good because we can't have more of him. And I don't, like Brandon Johnson, I don't know what Chicago is doing, Rod. But let me ask you about the sanctuary city policy. because I went, you, you left office in 2009. In 2017 is when Illinois became a sanctuary state.

But Chicago did it back in 1985. So what, did something change in the way, like I lived in Chicago for five years between, I don't know, it was between 1995 and 2001. And it wasn't, it was, Chicago was wonderful back then. That was, you know, Mayor Daley, you could eat off the streets. It was like so clean. I don't remember a big problem of illegals. You know, there was Cabrini Green, which is where like most of the gangmangers lived,

and that was way, kind of away from the sprawling downtown and Michigan Avenue. But like, what is it with Chicago and now Illinois and the sanctuary status? Well, a lot of it, I got to tell you, is about votes. I have to tell you, these illegal immigrants are voting. They're not just voting in Chicago. I bet they're voting big time in California.

Why else would these Democrats fight so hard for them to keep them in our country. When it used to be the Democratic Party agreed that illegal immigrants should be deported, look, I believe in the Dreamers program, and I believe hopefully the Republicans and Democrats can come together at some point and find a way to address the needs of these good people who came, you know, violated immigration laws and ought to stay. That's my personal belief. A lot of those dreamers actually serve in our military.

They work, and they're not criminals. But none of that's going to happen, as long as our country is so divided on the immigration issues and the Democrats refused to do anything to address all the millions who came here when Biden unlocked the door and let them all in. There's got to be like 15 million. I mean, they would say, the Democrats would say, they can't vote if they're not a citizen. Everyone has to provide proof of citizenship in order to get registered to vote. That's what they still claim. Right. Well, it isn't true. And this is a part of the motivation behind fighting so hard for these illegal immigrants. It's a, it's a voting block for them.

And look, Obama and I came out of Chicago politics at the same time. This wasn't back then what it is now when it comes to the number of illegal immigrants. But if you're asking me, do Democrats steal votes in places like Chicago, Philadelphia, Detroit, and Atlanta, and big cities across the country? My answer is, is the Pope Catholic. Obama knows that. I know that. I think both of us won our elections, irrespective of how many people were doing that on our behalf. But that's just how politics works in Chicago and works in big.

big cities. And I know exactly where they do it. And they do it in low-income areas where they control polling places. And they do it through what used to be absentee ballots, which became bail-in ballots, which are absentee ballots on steroids. The fact that the Democrats refused to vote for the Save America Act, show voter ID, proof of citizenship, you know, all of these things tell you there's got to be a reason why. It's because they vote them. And they vote the way they're told because they're unsophisticated voters and they can be controlled. And the Democrat Party, I used to be a member, I still consider myself a Trumpocrat, Democrat for Trump. But the Democratic Party has really been about coalitions. And this is the new coalition of the Democrat

party, the new voting bloc, illegal immigrants. How exactly would they do it? Because, you know, when you, if you want an absentee ballot, you do, at least where I live, you do have to send in, you know, your driver's license. Something that would prove that you, that you, your driver's license doesn't necessarily prove that you're an American citizen. But in any event, how, like, how do they do it? How do they get? the illegals ballots that they could fill out in the first place? Well, I mean, so they have organizations, these grassroots organizations that are immigrant rights groups and, you know, they're active in the community.

They work closely with the local democratic political organizations. And I believe they, you know, coordinate efforts to go vote as many people as they possibly can. And whatever the, you know, tactics or subterfuge they use, whether it's through a mail-in ballot or an absentee ballot, or whether it's, you know, you know, just there at the polling place and somebody shows up and is just voting somebody else's name who didn't show up, which is not uncommon practice in places where Democrats control the whole polling place. The Republican judges in those polling places are really Democrats dressed up as

Republicans just for appearances sake. So there's several ways to do it. Back in the day when I was starting, even before I got in the politics and I was a young lawyer, I'd worked as a prosecutor in the Cook County State Street's office for then Cook County State Street's office for then Cook County State Attorney Richard Daly. He was my boss. There were like 800 of us. I was in the misdemeanor courts. I never met him until I actually got elected to office. But back then, I was after I left and gone to private practice and I met my wife or father was a Chicago ward boss. And, you know, 50, 60 percent of his district, his ward was Latino voters. They were always very good to me and good to him. And we were very close to Latino community. It still are.

But among the ways you can get votes was you'd have a guy and I'm going to name him, he He was a good guy, a political activist the way it was in Chicago. He would go into the homes of immigrants and unregistered voters, get them registered, and then he would vote them absentee. But then he would gather and collect and bundle the absentee ballots and put them in a freezer. Because if you put them in a freezer and you freeze them, once you can look and see how the person voted. And if you don't like how they voted, you can spoil the ballot and go back and have them do it a second time. This is one example of one guy who was very active.

He got indicted in Cook County. And I was asked by my father-in-law to go representative at a grand jury. And it turned out he wouldn't say it. I told him, just don't say anything because that's your lawyer. You're a lawyer. Right. Don't say anything. And he literally took me, took my advice, wouldn't even say his name on the record.

Nothing happened to him. But that was a practice back then. Just imagine what they're doing now with this whole block of, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants who are here and are just going to do what the local community leaders are asking them to do because they're being helped in other ways. That's how I think they're doing it and I believe it's happening largely in places like in sanctuary. And that's why they're being given sanctuary, which in my opinion seems to be so unconstitutional and so unlawful that you'd have a place that basically invites people from other countries that break into our country, come to our city. and will protect you. That's the new Democratic Party today. That's what they're saying. And too many of these people who come are good people. Most of them are good people. They're coming for an

opportunity to work. But they've been misled by the Democrats who've invited them in to come in, and they believe that they'll be protected in these sanctuaries, which they are, and then they won't be found out. But the American people have woken up, and we have a problem that cannot be sustained, because how can you possibly sustain 15 million people who came into our country illegally and burden the taxpayers and then take resources away from people, Americans who truly need it, like underprivileged communities, the black community, for example, the Democrats say they're for, but they're not. I'm sorry if they're nice people. I'm sorry if a lot of them are nice people and just want a better life. If we have even one Sheridan, Gorman, it's not worth it. It's not worth it. Like, they come at too high a price.

Because for every 10 you let in who just want to improve their lives, you get a Jose Medina, Medina. And the next thing, you know, poor Sheridan has nothing. Sure. Future is. ended, her family will be hurting forever, and for what, for what? That's really the question you're asking. You have a theory for what? And it makes no, there's no redeeming value to what that man brought into the United States, none whatsoever. It's a wonderful thing to see you. I hope you come back on when your book hits in August. Thanks. I appreciate that. I look forward to it. It's nice to see you. It's been a couple of years, hasn't it? I know, yeah, but I really enjoyed our talk when you got out of the pokey. So thanks for coming on and talking about it. Well, Steve, look up the episode

number so we can tell him what that is. See you soon, Rod. There's a lot more to go on. And I'm going to end the show now because I want to get to let Emily do the after show and folks can call in and so on. But I just want to tell you, it's episode 274 if you want to listen to the long-form interview between your Australian Rod Blagojevich. It's really good, 274. It talks all about his life in prison. And like, did he join a game? How did he stay protected and was he violated? We went there. We went everywhere. And he was great. In New York City, today there is a piece about an 83-year-old veteran who was shoved under the New York City subway tracks days ago and he's just died from his injuries.

An 83-year-old U.S. Air Force veteran randomly shoved onto the subway tracks by an illegal on the Upper East Side. And now grandfather, Richard Williams is dead. He succumbed to his injuries after being pushed by another man waiting for a train at the Lexington Avenue 63rd Street Station on March 8th. Just, you know, just FYI, whatever. Lex and 63rd is a very nice part of town. You know, it's, it's not like a sketchy part where you might think, oh God, don't get down on the subway. No, it's like completely smack dab in the middle of the business district. It's not far away from where Bernie Madoff used to have his offices. And this guy is standing this 83-year-old man who has fought in war for the United States of America. There are pictures of him,

quite a few I've seen now, of him wearing his dog tags. He was clearly really proud of his military service, and he lived to tell about it, only to be killed by some thug illegal down on the subway tracks. the alleged attacker was from Honduras. Look at this absolute scumbag. Byron Hernandez 34. He was arrested March 10th. His charge is now upgraded to murder now that poor Richard has died. And you can see video.

The video does not show Byron actually. It does, but they haven't released this piece of it. Actually throwing Richard onto the tracks, but he does. And you can see in the video it shows. him leering toward the tracks after shoving the victims. So you can sort of see here, yeah, you can see there's the perpetrator, the accused perpetrator, kind of lingering on the tracks after he has shoved Richard down on the tracks. And then another man he shoved helped Richard get back up, get back up. So he lived through the attack. But as I say, died a couple of weeks later.

Prosecutors had said that Williams, Richard Williams, was brain dead. And his daughter, Debbie, told the New York Post he was not likely to pull through they could see. And it's been declared a homicide, of course. Another man named John Pena was also shoved under the tracks, age 30, and he's the one who heroically helped pull Williams back on the platform, but to no avail. He's died. He has now died. For what? Why? Why do we have to deal with this guy? He, this guy Hernandez was a serial criminal, I mean, you knew this was coming. Serial criminal, lengthy rap sheet, at least 15 charges, including aggravated assault, possession of a weapon, domestic violence, and so on, according to DHS. He had been deported from the United States four times, but kept

returning to the country illegally again per DHS. How many times do we have to have this story? How many times? That's Kate Steinle's murderer's story, too. deported five times. Long rap sheet. We don't know. The guy, you know, accused of killing Sheridan was allegedly only arrested for shoplifting back in 2023. It didn't even show up. No penalty. It's fine. We let them in. We don't follow up on where they are. We let them commit crime with impunity. We don't, in most of these jurisdictions, cooperate with ICE to at least, if not going to prosecute him, make sure he at least gets the boot out of the country. And we set them loose.

We send out our young girls like lambs to the slaughter to be fucking slaughtered by these thug illegals. And then you have places like the student newspaper, as Rod pointed out, at Loyola, which is called the Loyola, Laola Phoenix, writing articles apologizing for calling them illegal immigrants. I mean, spend it in a day on the Megan Kelly show. They're illegal thug pigs. That's what they are. Does that solve it for you, Phoenix? Who the hell is worried about their feelings?

Sheridan Gorman is dead. And you're worried about hurting the feelings of this illegal? You're worried about offending him by calling him not even an illegal alien, but an illegal immigrant. They write that no human's existence is illegal. And we quickly changed our wording to reflect that. It is a reference to one's immigration status, not to one's humanity. They know that. It's more important of them to kowtow to the woke reading their woke low circulation

newspaper to pat themselves on the back. You're part of the problem. They say, oh, we took the headline down immediately. It didn't reflect the most important elements in the story. Took it down moments later to prevent any further harm to affected community members. Who? You have a bunch of thuggy illegals in your community? No normal Hispanic person is going to be a,

offended by the use of the word illegal. Is that what you mean, Hispanics? No normal Asian, no normal African is going to be offended by the term illegal. What are you assuming about the people reading your newspaper? They go on to say that language was provided by DHS, but it doesn't align with the associated press style, nor with the values of this newspaper. We acknowledge the harm such language can cause and the power and importance of the words we choose to use. Yes, the words are important, but not in the way you think. We deeply regret these errors. Do you deeply regret the murder of Sheridan Gorman, your colleague on campus at Loyola? Where is your long peace apologizing to her family for these disgusting policies and the woke assholes like yourselves

that enable them? That's what you should be sorry about. There's just, like, don't, don't go there. I'm thinking about a young girl I know, she's finishing now, but who got into some great law schools, great law schools. And at the last minute, she got into the University of Chicago. And I said, you should go there. It's number one. It's amazing. Chicago's awesome.

And thank God she's okay. But I just think now, if she were to ask me now, I'd say you shouldn't go there. I did even at the time tell her it was dangerous. I mean, Chicago has gotten a lot more dangerous since I was there, thanks to policies like these. Mayor Daly's no longer there. He was a Democrat, but he was. a normal Democrat, you know, probably corrupt, but really good at his job and cared about things like crime and cleanliness. Now, I would not want my kids going there. Like, I'd be worried sick.

And I feel so bad for Sheridan's mom, Jessica, who I feel like I know. She was part of our Megan Kelly Show community. She came to the tour, as I mentioned. And I'm sure she was thrilled. She got into Loyola, a Jesuit university, and thought this will be great for her. She's a girl of faith, the family is too, and you pray God to look over her. And we all as parents convince ourselves that that's going to work. We have to convince ourselves that that's going to work. And when it doesn't, you have a reconciliation to work through. You know, you have a lot to work through. And I'm sure the family's going through that right now. Anyway, it's not just Chicago is my point. This is New York. It's happened in so many places. You know, Lake and Riley,

that illegal came from New York and we shipped him down to Georgia on the taxpayer dime. It's every month we have some young woman or a man, but often it's these young women cut short in the prime of their lives thanks to these thugs who never should have been here. This guy should have been Venezuela's problem, not ours. Tomorrow we'll talk about this and much, much more when Jesse Kelly joins us. Hope you'll join us then. Thanks for listening to The Megan Kelly Show. no BS, no agenda, and no fear.