The Megyn Kelly Show - Media Drools Over Trump Mug Shot, and Vivek Beats the Press, with Stu Burguiere and Dave Marcus | Ep. 616

Episode Date: August 28, 2023

Megyn Kelly is joined by Stu Burguiere, host of BlazeTV's Stu Does America, and Dave Marcus, columnist and author, to discuss the reaction to Trump’s mug shot photo, a potential Trump trial starting the day before Super Tuesday, CNN’s commentary on Trump surrendering, Biden immediately making jokes about Trump's mug shot, why Americans should take Trump's indictment seriously and how Trump seems to be getting more serious himself, the poll numbers that are hard for conservatives to digest about Trump, the importance of what Trump's defense will be, how Trump insults politicians but not voters, the details of the Jacksonville shooting, Ron DeSantis getting booed and why Americans should “put our parties aside” in the wake of tragedies, how different shootings across the country get different media coverage due to the perpetrator's race, Vivek Ramaswamy's comments aimed at the left and media about "neo-racism" and the KKK, Vivek fighting back against CNN and NBC, the need to call out racism on the left and reject the default connection to the right, Vivek's bizarre January 6 comments, the Canadian male shop teacher with the giant fake breasts “Kayla Lemieux" back in the news, the difference between being accommodating and affirming, and more.Burguiere: https://www.youtube.com/studoesamericaMarcus: https://www.foxnews.com/person/m/david-marcus Follow The Megyn Kelly Show on all social platforms: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/MegynKellyTwitter: http://Twitter.com/MegynKellyShowInstagram: http://Instagram.com/MegynKellyShowFacebook: http://Facebook.com/MegynKellyShow Find out more information at: https://www.devilmaycaremedia.com/megynkellyshow

Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations. Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show and happy Monday. Can you believe it's Monday again? How did we get back to Monday so quickly? Remember Friday? Here on Monday, the press continues to celebrate the Trump mugshot photo. We were off when it hit and we've got some thoughts on it, which I'll get to in a minute. Meantime, a shooting in Jacksonville, Florida has captured the most media attention of perhaps any recent mass shooting. Why is that? Well, of course, the circumstances,

the victims, the perpetrator and the DeSantis angle hit all of the media's interests in the exact right combination. Joining me now for the full show, Stu Bergeer. He's host of Stu Does America on Blaze TV. And Dave Marcus is a columnist and author. Guys, welcome back to the program. So let's start with Trump, just because I haven't talked about it yet since we were off on Friday. The mugshot scene around the world, the totally unnecessary mugshot, right? Literally the most famous man in the world. If he decides to jump bail, we're good. We're going to be able to find him, as he pointed out in his enormous plane, which reads Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump all over it. Never mind just his face, which everyone knows. So the absurdity and the political nature

of this prosecution makes itself clear just in the mere act that he had to do it. What do you guys make of the sternness, the seriousness? There was speculation about whether he should smile and just own it. He decided to go in sort of badass faced um like f off that's what that picture says to me go f yourselves um i don't know it could have gone another way what do you think do you like it or you don't like it i think i like it i mean i think the proof is in the pudding how much money did he raise off of this thing you know it's a it was an incredible yes seven million dollars the biggest day of his entire campaign so the proof is in the pudding there it certainly was the right way to go i guess i i remember an old texas politician tom delay a

congressman who decided to go in and get his mugshot taken and with the biggest like it's the first day of school smile on and in some ways it was effective because it was like you can't put it in the scary political ad because he looks too goofy and happy. I thought that might be the way Trump went and said he went with sort of this. I'm almost menacing. I'm going to get revenge for what you're doing to me. Look, you're right. And it was powerful.

I think people related to it. And, you know, the central plank of his candidacy right now is not even what he did when he was president. It's what they're doing to him now. And every single time people see this, they're reminded of it. What do you think, Dave? He nailed it or he should have gone another way? Yeah, no, I think I agree with Stu. I mean, I guess the other option would have been something along the lines of that, like Taco Bowl shot from Cinco de Mayo. right actually in my head i've sort of like photoshopped the mugshot onto that image it abuses me um but yeah i mean look he he does appear to be taking it seriously i'm sure this is something that they discussed and i'm sure that this is what they landed at

it is a dramatic photograph his eyes are very much locked on the camera and one of the things that we know about trump is that he jumped he jumps through the screen. You know, not every politician does. And I think you absolutely see that in this image. And I am glad that he's taking it so seriously in the image, because I've been feeling this real disconnect between this being the greatest threat to our democracy of our lifetimes. And I absolutely believe that it is. And on the other hand, you know, everyone's running around gleefully selling mugshot merch. I worry that that people aren't quite taking this yet as seriously as they need to. So I'm glad that the that the that the image was a serious one. And I have to say my own reaction to it was I was glad for the penetrating look. As you say, he penetrates the lens because it was a reminder of just how I feel about it, too.

Just how deeply wrong this is, how serious it is, how this is an existential moment for our country in a lot of ways. Not that America collapses if he gets convicted, but the rule of law will never be the same again. It'll never be the same again after the arrests. Never mind a possible conviction. They crossed a line we'd never before crossed. It's deadly serious. It's deeply wrong. We've gone through the reasons many times with our audience.

And he should be out there scowling. It's worth a scowl. And it's it's worth an angry and potentially threatening look like you turn about his fair play. And if you don't think if President Trump wins again, Hunter Biden's going to jail for something, maybe Joe Biden's going to jail for something. You haven't been paying attention. And these same Democrats who are defending the four prosecutions of Trump will be crying foul. And the rest of us will be sitting there saying you started this just like you did with the filibuster erasure. You started it. So it's on right. It's on the double standards. It's

probably going to be the theme of today's show when we get to what's happening down in Florida, too. But in the meantime, Stu, we've got news out of the federal prosecution of Trump over the January 6th case. There are two, right? There's the Mar-a-Lago documents case, and that's going to be tried in federal court in Florida. And then there's the January 6th federal case by Jack Smith. That's going to be tried in Washington, D.C. Not to be confused with the January 6th state case for which he just posed for a mugshot in Fulton County down in Georgia. And the New York case is a hot mess that will take place whenever up in New York state. Now, the judge in the Jan 6th federal case has set the trial date for March 4th, 2023,

literally the day before the Super Tuesday vote. That's it. I said to my team, isn't that date already out there? Why do I already know about that date for this for Trump? They reminded me it's the date Fannie Willis, the Georgia prosecutor, wanted for her case. So now you got two out of the four prosecutors trying to set their criminal trials against him starting the day before Super Tuesday. I'm sure it was totally coincidental, Stu, that that day had no bearing for them on the politics. Just a dart thrown at a calendar, Megan. That's all it was. It's fascinating here. You know,

it's funny, every time a Democratic president takes office, they all claim that they will be the most transparent administration in history. Biden seems to be living up to that because this is the most transparent effort I've ever seen in my entire life. I mean, it's almost a joke, right? Like when he's talking, Donald Trump is talking about election interference and these efforts. Even if you don't think it's criminal election interference, it certainly is election interference. They are getting in the way of the process that is allowing us to select the person we believe should be leading our country. They are jamming themselves in the middle of it because they cannot bring themselves to believe that the American people might just choose Donald Trump again.

And they might, but they're doing everything they can to derail that process. And you think back to previous times when we talked about um you know hillary clinton's investigations and previous situations where the doj would be looking into this they were very clear and careful to stay away from any election period because they didn't want to influence the process and now it's constant they took two years to do anything they They had those two years. They could have been investigating and charging him through two years when he wasn't running for president. They waited till he started. They waited to see how this is going to play out. And then they try

to jam themselves right in the middle of the process a day before it's, you know, it's over a dozen states are going to be voting. It's going to be the thing that's on everyone's mind if this date holds. And regardless of what the outcome is, they are influencing it in a major way. And that's not the way our country is supposed to be operating. A couple of details on the surrender. He spent about 20 minutes at the jail. He was fingerprinted. He had his mugshot taken.

He was assigned an ID number, P.O. 1135809. The booking record lists him as having blonde or strawberry hair, height of 6 feet 3, weight of 215 pounds, which is 24 pounds less than the White House doctor reported him weighing back in 2018. CNN had a meltdown over this discrepancy in the weight because you can't trust Trump on everything and he needs to be called out for any lie. Hello. There's not a person on earth who hasn't lied about their weight. But OK, this is what they decided to spend their time on. Take a take a look at CNN on Thursday night. So he's lost 25 pounds since he was president, is what we're understanding. We're looking at the document. Yeah,, 6'3", 215 pounds, hair blonde or strawberry, eyes blue. Did he fill that out too, blonde or strawberry? I think all of this was... How does strawberry end up in a booking sheet? That's a good question.

Okay. It's possible somebody took a guess. It's possible somebody took a guess at his weight or took his word for his weight. This is not what we should be spending our time on. He posted a link to his website, first Twitter or now X post since he was booted off a couple years ago and a link to his account. He tried to raise money off of it all, understandably. And he is selling I think a mug, right? It's a mug. Is it a mug? No, it's just the mugshot. Anyway, in any event, his caption under his mugshot read, never surrender. So Dave, what we saw on CNN was Caitlin Collins coming out and saying, oh, it's ironic. He should post never surrender because

that's exactly what he was forced to do down in Georgia. He had to go in and surrender himself as though this is a, he meant it literally. Like if he's, he's only a tough guy, if he runs from the law and makes them track him down, capture him and drag him to the court. Otherwise you're not a man. Yeah. I mean, this is, this is how he's broken the brains of so many journalists on the left. You know, and it is hyperbolic. It is true. The first piece I ever wrote after Donald Trump won, I was writing a Federalist at the time, and it was it was a piece right as he became president about how to understand him. You have to understand the outer boroughs of New York, that he's a Queens guy, right? It's hyperbolic. It's big talk. We kind

of understood that. And Selena Zito caught on to that, right? It was Selena who said that his, the people who don't like him, you know, take him seriously, but not take them literally, but not seriously. And the people who like him take him seriously, but not take them literally, but not seriously. And the people who like them take them seriously, but not literally. And the media has just never learned their lesson. And what I don't think they understand is that when they prattle on about this nonsense of like, is he really 215 pounds? Did he really shoot a 67 at Bedminster? People watching them know that they look absolutely insane and don't take their word on the very serious things that they're also lying about. So yeah, it's, it's just, but again, this goes back to, to my feeling that nobody understand like, okay, so let's say this trial

happens the day before, uh, you know, the, the days before super Tuesday, what does that actually look like? Well, are there going to be mass protests? I mean, we saw what happened the last time we tried that. Are we just going to, you know, sell more T-shirts to own the libs? I mean, what's the plan here? It's it's getting kind of close now. Meanwhile, the polling data is out to some extent on the criminal trials and the debate. And this is what we're seeing so far.

Politico slash Ipsos had a poll from August 18th to the 21st, a thousand plus adults. And the question was, should the federal trial on Trump's election subversion case, this is the one we're discussing that now they want on March 4th, Super Tuesday, take place before the presidential election in November 2024. 61% said yes. And that included 89% of Democrats, 63% of independents, only 33% of the GOP wants that. So that's I mean, that's a healthy majority wants the trial before the reelection battle or the election contest in November. Do you believe he's guilty of those alleged crimes? Total 51 percent say yes. Eighty eight percent of Democrats, 53 percent of independents, only 14 percent of Republicans. We know it's not resonating within the GOP. That's why he's,

you know, 50 points ahead in most of these polls, or at least the latest poll. And then last but not least, the question was a conviction in his election case would hurt Donald Trump in the general election. 32% said it would make them less likely to support him, including one third of independents. Only 13% said it would make them more likely to support Trump. So overall, these are not great numbers for him, right? That the vast majority want the trial before November. That's not what Trump wants. And a majority thinks he's guilty, including 53% of independents who he will need if he wants to get reelected. What do you make of those numbers, Stu? I think they're difficult for conservatives to hear. I work at the Blaze, Blaze TV. I work on the Glenn Beck program. And I talk to people all the time in our audience and other media

personalities and such on the conservative side that come through here. And I think most people are pretty much aligned in the idea that there's a real persecution going on here of a political opponent. And the DOJ is out of control. It's been weaponized. And it's almost unanimous when it comes to the conservative side of the argument. When you look at the polling, and it's not just the poll you cited, there are many others that say the exact same thing. As you'd expect, Republicans and Democrats are split on this, right? Democrats are, you know, Trump is guilty and basically Hitler and Republicans say that he's innocent. The numbers, if you compare those two groups, are better for Democrats. In other words, people are more unified on the Democratic side than they are on the Republican

side. There is still a small slice of Republicans who still see Trump as committing a crime. But the numbers in the middle are really ugly on this. Now, that could change. We have to pay attention to them. We have to. It's really important. Whether you agree or disagree with them, the independents are going to control the election. Most likely, if history is any guide, keep going.

Yeah. I mean, you see it's a two to one margin in most cases among independents. You know, sometimes it's three to one when you're talking about these negative, the negative outlook here. Most people don't view this and don't look at every document that comes out and don't obsess about this stuff like people who listen to the Megyn Kelly show do every day and really follow this stuff. And I think it's important for us to understand now that can change. Trump's defense might be excellent. He might get off on all these charges. There's a lot of different ways that this can go. But it is scary. And when you look at polling,

I think a lot of times people on the right get lulled into a false sense of security by seeing, OK, it's like Biden 43, Trump 42. Well, those outstanding numbers are really soft for Donald Trump. The extra 15, 16% that are going to make the decision on who the next president is have an opinion that is really out of line with conservatives on this. I think they're open to Donald Trump being president, potentially, but they are coming into this with a negative view. They're not viewing this as persecution. They're viewing this as he must've done something wrong. Look how many charges are against him. That may fade over time, but it is something that Republicans and conservatives really have to take seriously. And more than anybody else, the president, the former president

needs to take it seriously because if, if he's not able to get through this and present a case to people that is, that is something more than, well, people always treat me unfairly. He's going to have a difficult, difficult time. And I think there's going to be a lot of surprised people on the right. The RealClearPolitics average of the post-debate polls, Dave Marcus shows no movement overall. Trump at 55 a week ago, Next closest was DeSantis at 14. Now do. New York Post has Trump at 61, DeSantis at nine, whereas the other polls taken since the debate show, well, I'll give you an example. Reuters, Trump 52, DeSantis 13. Insider Advantage was the best one for DeSantis. It showed Trump at 45, DeSantis at 18. Morning Consult, Trump at 58, DeSantis at 14. The New York Post gave Trump a better boost and DeSantis worst 14. The New York Post gave Trump a better boost and

DeSantis worst numbers. New York Post not known for its polling with respect to them. Haven't seen them included in the Real Clear Politics average yet. This is new to me. So I don't know about their polling and how reliable it is. But my point overall is with or without the New York Post, it's barely changed. If it's changed at all, it's barely changed. And the debate didn't change it. Nothing we've seen on the campaign trail has changed it. And yet back to Stu's point in the discussion we just had, the independents are not in love with Donald Trump. And they actually think that there may be some credence here, some credibility with these charges, and they want to trial sooner rather than later.

Yeah, look, I think a big part of this is going to be what the nature of Trump's defense, both inside and outside of the courtroom is. And I'm talking about the election interference cases. I think the classified docs case, I mean, Biden had them too. I don't think that resonates. The New York one is ridiculous. But on the alleged election interference, there's really two different defenses that can be made. One defense is regardless of whether there was, you know, something funny going on with the election or not, President Trump had every right to take the actions that he took as, you know, did his alleged co-conspirators. They were simply, this is just politics. They did nothing wrong. He could make that defense. The other defense that he could make is the election was rigged.

And I think as far as independents go, they're going to be a lot more open to the, you know, I thought something funny was going on and I had every right to do this rather than re-litigating once again, all of the questions questions about many of the questions are completely legitimate especially around the the changing of laws in different states and covet and all that but i'm not sure that independents have much of an appetite to to talk about 2020 anymore i don't think they do either and yet this is what the democrats and they're all democrat prosecutors have forced upon us they forced it upon us that we're going to spend the next year and a half talking about that instead of the issues that people really care about. In fact, there was just a poll out on that, which is also interesting, sort of getting back to what what do people care about? Like what's motivating the voters when you ask them, you know, what's most interesting to them. I'm looking for my notes, but I just off top of my head, I remember number one was the economy and inflation. Number two was immigration. Well, we're not talking about that. And we're not going to be talking about that because we're

going to be talking about January 6th, January 6th, January 6th, Trump and Stormy Daniels and Mar-a-Lago documents, none of which amount to shit. I'm sorry, but it has absolutely nothing to do with anybody's life. And so this is, you know, you could blame Donald Trump for it. I think the proper blame belongs on these Democrats who are using all those things to distract from the issues that actually will motivate most voters because they understand there's an electoral electoral advantage in it still right there. They're manipulating. It is election interference. They're manipulating all of us so that we don't talk about the issues people care about. We just talk about this other crap. Yeah, that's exactly what they're doing. And this was such a focus of the founders to try to stay away from this. You know,

the reason why the impeachment process exists. I mean, you could have easily gone through, they could have easily designed a system where we have the normal legal system. And when people get convicted, they get thrown out of their jobs. They didn't do that because we all understand that in these political situations, people are very likely to misuse this power for their own advantage. And it's happening in front of our eyes here. Instead of just allowing, there's two easy ways to sort this out. You have the impeachment process, which by the way, as we all know, they tried twice. They tried to do this twice and it didn't work. This was the process outlined by our founders. When you when a politician has these types of issues, how do you deal with it? Impeachment is the way you deal with it. OK, well, that didn't work. Well, what about

the voting then? Let's just let voters handle it. We've had two years to look at all this. They've had they did an entire primetime after school special about the January 6th commission, and we were all forced to watch it. And we took in all this information. Why did we do all that? We all we have all this information. People are informed as to what happened on those days and now can make their own decision. But instead of trusting the American people, they're doing this. They're trying to get in the way. They're trying to manipulate it both ways. They seem to want more attention and to induce the reaction from Republicans to say, hey, this is wrong. I'm going to defend my guy at all costs. And they seem to want to make him to be the nominee because I guess they think they can beat him, a strategy which, by the way, has failed before for them. And then on the other side, they're going to have potential convictions. They're going to do everything they can with the media to turn people against Donald Trump and the outcomes of these trials. And then they think they have an easy path for a guy sitting in his basement to win the presidency again. It's a risky strategy from their, from their sense, because as you point out,

the scowl, I think indicates how they will, how he will treat Democrats, how forgiving he will be of this. If he is elected president again. Yeah. I mean, I,

yeah, when he was talking to Tucker, he made, he made a point of saying, you know, I re I will represent everybody, not just the Republicans, but the Democrats do,

but leadership, the people like in charge who are doing this to him. Yeah. They Yeah, they're going to get it. And I can't say that I really care. I mean, like, I don't want our country to devolve any further than it has. But I would completely understand the turnabout. I mean, I understand the people right now who are saying there should be turnabout at this moment. Why isn't there an impeachment inquiry on Joe Biden? I mean, an actual impeachment proceeding under like fight fire with fire. Why do the Republicans keep rolling over? I'm not advocating for it, but I understand the instinct like they will not. The Democrats will stop at nothing. They'll stop at nothing. You know, they're going after DeSantis now, too. I'm not saying that they

would impeach him immediately upon taking office or try to like they did with Trump. Trump's a unique individual, but I wouldn't put it past them. And meanwhile, there's this actual person people forget. Dave Trump is an actual man. He's 77 years old. And when I listened to him in the Tucker interview, you know, there were moments where he sounded like, I don't know, kind of tired to me, a little bit wiser. You know, he did have quite a few statements that were sort of inclusive and a little softer toward political opponents. And I thought, this is interesting. This is probably what comes with age and some time to reflect on the role you held. Yes, there were some

controversial statements, too, about Tucker prodding him on. Are we headed for civil war, civil war, civil war? But Trump, to me, seemed, I don't know, a little tired and perhaps a little worn out by what he's been put through. This is prior to his surrender. Here he was talking to Greg Kelly on Newsmax the night that he was, you know, subjected to the mugshot and the arrest and the fingerprints in Satu. Terrible experience. I took a mugshot, which I never heard the words mugshot. That wasn't didn't teach me that at the work school of finance it's a very sad experience and it's a very sad day for our country this is a

weaponized justice department said what they want to do is they want to try and wear you out which never do but they want to wear you to about just an absolute horrible thing that they're doing. And I've never seen anything like it. This is third world country. OK, can I just say one thing, Dave? I think it's interesting. He said they want to wear you out, but they never do. Now, I think Trump's got more energy than any 77 year old I've seen. However, there's a reason he brought that up. There's a reason he said that phrase to me. It's like it's in his head and he's only human. Yeah, absolutely. He's only human. You know, I just just to tack on one thing to what Stu and what you were saying, Megan, I mean, we're all assuming that Democrats are even going to let him on the ballot. And there really could be efforts in a lot of states. Some have

already started to not Hampshire in particular, right, to say, well, you can't even be on the ballot. And look at how that just just to just to explain that the push right now is that he's already somehow disqualified himself by, quote, participating in or aiding and abetting an insurrection, which under the 14th Amendment, they claim would make him ineligible. This is not a crime he's been charged with anywhere. He is not charged with that, but they want to just say he did it anyway and therefore he can't run. So keep going. Yeah, no, you know, it was a provision after the Civil War really to make sure that a former

Confederate general can't wind up being president United States. But yeah, he's got he's got to be feeling all of this. And he's got to realize on some level that there is a very strong possibility that he's going to be convicted on some of these counts. Now, he's a fighter. And I think that he sees a way through this, which is to fight and to win the presidency. And I think, Megan, part of what I think you noticed something very apt about the way that he's been talking. Over the past three or four months, his surrogates have had that super trolly, like insulting DeSantis, you know, calling them all kinds of names and stuff. And, you know, Trump has used Ron to

sanctimonious, but he he hasn't been as aggressive, at least on video himself talking as he was in 2016. And I think maybe he's maybe he's learned that it's better to let some of his his surrogates do some of that stuff and allow himself to come off a little more presidential, which which I think he did. I wonder whether he's. Learned that it's better to let the surrogates do it or whether he's just naturally arrived at a place where he's feeling a little bit more magnanimous about this country, about the people in it who disagree with him, because Trump actually does have a fair amount of supporters from groups you would never think would support Trump. I mean, I honestly I was struck by the number of clips all over social media this weekend of black Americans who you

would definitely just instinctively say are probably Democrats and probably are not going to vote for Trump. Just look at the numbers, the raw polling data who are like, I am 100 percent voting for this guy now after the mugshot, after what they just did to him. Some guys coming out and saying if this guy somehow manages to escape a conviction, I'm all in this, you know, MF is not going down and I'm going to stand right now. Like there was such a groundswell. I was like, you know, I don't know. I just think Trump I don't think he actually does. He hates I don't think he hates Democrats. I think he's been a Democrat his whole life. And while he hates the Democrat leadership and I think he will try to get them, I just see sort of a wisdom coming over him where he's like, it's the country.

I love the country more than they do. Maybe I'm crazy, but that's that's what I'm feeling, Dave. No, I look, I don't think that you're crazy at all. And the big difference between Trump and Trump's Democrat opponents is that or Republican opponents, for that matter, but specifically with the Democrats, is Trump attacks politicians. Right. Trump plays by mafia rules. If you're in the game, then you're in the game. Donald Trump does not insult Democrat voters. Donald Trump does not insult Democrat voters. Donald Trump does not insult the American people. And yet the Democrats insult Trump voters, you know, every time they open their

mouths and everybody knows that. And that's why Trump's line about I'm the one in between them and you resonates so much with voters. No, I don't I don't think Donald Trump hates the American people who disagrees with them. And that's a very good thing. And yeah, that gets that gets lost in his in his rough and tumble persona. But boy, that that's that's an awfully huge difference that I think Americans feel because they don't like being insulted by politicians. And meanwhile, Stu, you have Joe Biden, who could not just try to keep it classy. You know, he could he was fresh off of his trip in the middle of his one month vacation for his few hours on the ground in Maui where he's falling asleep and he's mispronouncing everybody's name

and he's trying to compare his kitchen fire and the possible endangerment of his cat to the death of potentially a thousand people, including hundreds of children. Potentially, we know only of 115 plus deaths now, but it's we're still missing over 800 more. So fresh off of that, he's asked about the Trump arrest mugshot. I mean, this is this is actually an upsetting day and upsetting moment for millions of Americans are very angry about what's happening to Donald Trump and worried about what's being done to him and that about their own vote not counting now because they're going to lock up their candidate. The thing that Biden claims to care so much about here was how he decided to comment

on the mugshot Friday as he continued his vacation in Lake Tahoe. He's booed as he continued his vacation in Lake Tahoe. Handsome guy, wonderful guy god forbid stew god forbid he take the moment to say you know i'm not going to comment on that that's going to play out in the criminal justice system it's not appropriate for a sitting president to weigh in uh i'm sure this is an upsetting day for those people who support donald trump and as always as president my heart remains with them and with the country that it's so fucking simple why don't you just say that don't say something snarky about his looks which you don't mean yeah i mean what was his first reaction as he was turning himself in was to tweet a link to raise money for his campaign not to say that this is an important moment or i can't believe yeah biden this is what he did

uh look it's it's fascinating to watch. He has been terrible. I mean, through the Maui thing, which is a whole different situation and through this as well. And he comes off. It's an interesting dynamic, because I think if you go back and you look at the Trump 2016 campaign, obviously we're talking serious business. This is politics. We're talking about running the country, the most powerful job in the world. But at some level, like Trump, in a way, almost gamified the 2016 campaign. There was this sense like, did he actually believe that Ted Cruz's dad shot JFK? Like, no, it was, you know, of course he didn't. He just said things and he had fun with it.

And, you know, he was insulting everybody and making up nicknames. And like, you can argue whether or not you think that's the right way to do things but he seemed like he was having fun at some level uh through that period and he was enjoying it and he and he realized it was sort of a battle everyone was in a in a in a debate where everyone kind of knew that their you know knives were out but it was still we're all looking towards the same thing his approach approach here, it feels different. I feel like he's now been hit with a realization that this is a totally different time. They are coming after not just his campaign, but his life. They want to remove every free day he has on this earth from his possession. That is literally what they're trying to do in front of our eyes.

And if you don't get serious under that circumstance, you're never going to get serious. And he really is. I think he's looking at this in a way that is correct. And he sees this threat for something that it is, which is not only just a threat against him and every day of freedom that he has, but a total turning point for our country. You know, you can't look at this and take it out of the context of what's happening. In 2016, he said, lock her up, lock her up, lock her up. Did he mean that? We know he didn't mean it because he didn't pursue it for at all, seemingly as soon as he was elected. In fact, on stage a couple of weeks later said, ah, that was during the campaign. I think we're past that. Here's a situation where they all said that was a banana republic. They all said on the left that this was terrible to

say, lock her up just to say it at a rally. And yet here they are in the middle of the campaign doing this exact thing to their lead political opponent with not one instance of irony. I mean, it's perplexing, but it has to really put you in a position where you realize you're fighting for your life. We talked about double standards at the top of the hour, and we're going to get to more of that in just a minute as we discuss this latest shooting down in Jacksonville, Florida, and the accusations against Ron DeSantis, who had nothing to do with it. But of course, his opponents are trying to make it his fault. Stand by. More with Stu and Dave right after this. So there was a shooting down in Jacksonville, Florida, and it involved, we don't say the name of these shooters, but it involved a white man who I think was 21 years old, who went into, after trying to go into an HSBC,

HBSC, okay, sorry, but historically black college, but was turned away got went over to a Dollar Tree store, and shot and killed three black people. Then he killed himself, the white shooter. And the police went back to his house. They found his manifesto. He apparently had a couple of them, which were, according to the sheriff, just the work of a madman. The sheriff just said, I mean, I'm trying to quote here, but he said he was an absolute madman. He said he had his wits about him, quoting manifestos, quite frankly, the dire of a madman.

He was just completely irrational. He was 100 percent lucid. He knew what he was doing, but he was a nutcase, right? So like his musings were all over the board, according to the sheriff. And yet they were very focused on race. And he did kill three black community members down in Jacksonville. So DeSantis, this is of course, Jacksonville, Florida, DeSantis shows up at the vigil that was being held for those who were killed, the victims, and they start booing him there. Then a councilwoman, a Democrat, gets up to defend him. So listen to this. We're not going to allow these institutions to be targeted by people. We... Hold on.

Let me say this. Okay, listen, y'all. Let me tell you, we finna put parties aside. Because it ain't about parties today. A bullet don't know a party. So don't get me started. Y'all just be quiet just a minute. And let the governor say what he gonna say.

Good for her. We'll get to the bad behavior that followed. But let's just pause on good for her. It'll get to the bad behavior that followed. But just let's just pause on good for her. Right. It's not about party today. God bless her. If only more people could go that route in the wake of these tragedies. Dave, your thoughts. Yeah, it was really inspiring to see, you know, and we don't see those kinds of inspiring moments in our politics very often, as you just mentioned about Joe Biden talking about this crisis in regard to the election, just being a jerk about it. This woman, I mean, he is a jerk, right? But I mean, this woman took it seriously and really made the point that

we're all at risk from this, right? I mean, there are, you know, we had the Nashville shooting with the trans manifesto. We have this shooting with a racist manifesto. We have all these people who are just going crazy in our society. We're in a very bad place with race and we don't listen to each other. And really, I think more than anything she was saying show respect and and listen let's listen to each other and we don't do that very well as a society anymore we call each other we're very good at calling each other names uh we're very good at blocking out information that we don't want to hear but we're not very good at listening to the other side so yeah good for her that was really really good to Right. Her name is a councilwoman, Jacoby Pittman. And, you know,

she inserted herself, took the mic and told the folks there, be respectful, right? This isn't about party today, Stu. And I only wish that that was the total reaction to DeSantis and this whole thing, just because it happened in his state. That's, of course, not where it ended. I'll just give you a flavor before I get to the other messaging of how DeSantis, what his messaging was. It's kind of interesting. I'd love to get your reaction. Take a listen to SOT6. The fact of the matter is, you know, you had a major league scumbag come from Clay County up here. And what he did, what he did is totally unacceptable in the state of Florida. We are not going to let people be targeted based on their race. You are not going to target HBCUs in the state of Florida and get away with it.

We're going to hold you accountable. We're not going to let it happen. racist rantings in his manifesto. But there's also a serious question about whether were those the just the racist ramblings of some madman who just like hated everybody and decided, you know, we've seen this before where they just decide to turn their lunacy on one particular group of people at the end. Or is this somebody who was bred and born, you know, like racist his whole life and this is all about his racism. It seems from what we've heard so far, it was the former. But I don't know. You tell me, Stu, I thought the governor's tone was maybe a little off for this particular setting. But that's, you know, DeSantis isn't really the touchy feely kind. Yeah, that's that's definitely true. I think, you know, and we will learn everything, I'm sure, about this this killer and everything that he's ever thought and every bad thing he's ever said. And

he was, from all reporting, an absolutely horrible human being. I don't necessarily, the distinction between racist and scumbag, not much of a distinction to me. If you're a racist, you're a scumbag. So I mean, it kind of means the same thing to me. I guess if you're a scumbag, you're not necessarily a racist. So there's some separation, but I don't know that it's all that important of a distinction. I do think that it's interesting to watch this because you do see with the woman you spoke of earlier taking across the party aisle sort of stance and saying, hey, don't boo the governor, let him say what he's going to say. And that's an overt example of it. Booing a Republican just because he's a Republican in a moment like this is an overt

example of that sort of bias. But we're seeing in the reporting on this story, a much more subtle version. I mean, I have to say, a loss of three people is incredibly tragic, and it's terrible that this could possibly happen in this country or any country. But you have to think that if it was one white person killing three white people, we probably wouldn't even be aware of the story today. It would not be a national story. If the story didn't happen in Florida, we probably wouldn't have had this story because of this DeSantis tie. The racism motivations look they're important to understand anytime there's a murder like this you need to know something

about the motivation so you can try to prevent them going forward but if it was something else if it was a a gang incident i mean these things probably happened in six or seven other spots this this weekend and we didn't hear anything about it. And that is the same type of bias. It's the same bias as booing a governor standing in front of you. It's the exact same thing. They're utilizing this for political purposes. They're using this tragedy to their own ends in the media. And that needs to be called out just as much as the people booing in the crowd. Well, we just went just a quick Google search. And just last month, July of 2023, there was a suspect in Georgia, a mass shooting that killed four people.

The suspect is black. All victims were white. And of course, the mother later said the suspect had needed mental health for nearly a decade, but they couldn't force him to get treatment. That got almost no coverage, right, where the shooter was black and the four victims were white. We did not see wall to wall coverage on that at all. Now you've got Tulsa, Oklahoma, just a couple months before that in April 2023, black man charged with murder, impossible hate crime after shooting two white strangers in the back of the head. Authorities in Tulsa investigating whether this black man who went in and killed two men was because of their race. They said he allegedly murdered the two strangers with he had no connection with by going into the public library at 940 a.m., walked up behind one poor man

and shot him right in the back of the head while the guy was just sitting there in the library and then went on to a nearby quick trip convenience store allegedly shot james mcdaniel another victim in the back of the head um charged with murder but again this wasn't everywhere despite the horrific circumstances i mean this is horrible horrible because the race of the perpetrator and the defense and the victims didn't line up i same situation down in jefferson parish louisiana in april one victim here but the murder was motivated by race they arrested a 23 year old uh and a 25 year old in connection with the murder of a white victim who was shot and killed while installing his mailbox outside of his home or a mailbox.

The bullet went through his back and out his chest under questioning. One of the defendants who were black said that they wanted to kill a white person. Well, I didn't see that everywhere. I didn't see wall to wall coverage like we saw this weekend of this because it didn't happen in Florida where the sitting governor has, you know, a decent chance, I guess, if Trump decides to quit of winning the Republican nomination. And I don't want to racialize any of these unnecessarily, but it's just it's what the left instinctively does. And I realize this guy said in his manifesto that he had hatred for blacks. But to elevate this like it's indicative of who we are is a lie still. It is absolutely a lie. And it's so common. I think we're just all used to it and we should completely reject it. You know, there was a time where it felt like this was fading away. And I grew up in the 80s and 90s. I remember thinking

that this was just nonsense. I mean, racism was a literal joke. You would make fun of people for anyone who expressed anything like this would be a joke. You go back to the mid 2000s, polls showed about 72 or I think it was 72% of Americans believed racial relations were in a good place. And that included the overwhelming majority of African Americans who also believe that it wasn't just white people saying it was good and not understanding the truth about it. And since then, we decided to apply this new medication this one's going to instead say, well, all white people are racist no matter what they say. And all black people are victims and are incapable of accomplishing anything without the white man in the way. And let's just test that one out on a society and see how that goes. And the polls have changed completely.

I think it was from 72 percent down to 44 percent of people believe now that, that things are, are, are progressing well racially. And look, you know, this person individually who shot these people in Jacksonville seems like a complete lunatic and has other indications in, in his manifesto that he had other, you know,

deep mental challenges here to say the very least. Some sort of a hold, a mental health hold when he was 15 or 16, so five or six years ago, where under the state's Baker Act allows people to be involuntarily detained and subject to an examination for up to 72 hours during a mental health crisis. That happened to him. Former classmate describing him as introverted, socially awkward. Neighbor said he was on some sort of a medication.

He got off of it probably a few days or a couple of days ahead of that. That's probably when he snapped. That's speculation. But there was a history here. Go ahead. Finish your point. Yeah. I mean, there was a real this person may just be insane with crazy racial flares, or it

could be an ideological racist that, you know, was reading all sorts of books from nut jobs. Who knows? But the point is, there isn't a heightened racial tension going on right now. Applying these sorts of solutions that we're being told are going to solve the problem of doing the exact opposite. I mean, we all make fun of Bud Light because they gave a can to somebody, to Dylan Mulvaney, and all of a sudden, their sales tanked by 20 or 30%. But at least Bud Light isn't continually doing that all the time. We've implemented this solution. We've dropped how people feel about the positivity of racial relations by 30 and 40 points over a decade, And no one seems to want to reverse course. The only answer is double down, triple down, quadruple down, take another booster of the

Ibram X Kendi vaccine. It seems like we're going down the wrong road. And these results, while we should keep it in perspective, this is not how America is. It's not like constantly people are being shot like this. This is always taken out of context by the media, but it is a real problem. And what we're doing is making it worse, not better. I want to get to what President Biden said and this congresswoman going after Ron DeSantis directly, blaming the whole thing on him. Not to mention what Vivek said on the Sunday shows in an interesting exchange with Chuck Todd. That's next. Stand by. So Joe Biden reacted to the shooting down in Jacksonville saying white supremacy has no place in America. Hate must have no safe harbor. Silence is complicity and we must not remain silent. I don't remember him saying anything in response to the three black on white shootings.

I just went through to name just a few, right? Nevermind black on black shootings, nevermind white on white shootings. He only cares when it is white on black. And that's when he does believe silence is complicity. White supremacy, no place in America. Neither does white hatred by blacks or any other group that also has no place in America. But you won't find the president speaking out about that. Tell it to Florida State Rep Angie Nixon, who decided this was all the fault of Ron DeSantis. Listen to her. Follow statements. This is a governor who has done nothing but fan these types of happenings throughout our state. The governor has blood on his hands. He has had an all-out attack on the Black community with his anti-vote policies, which we know very well was nothing more than a dog whistle to get folks up and riled up

in the way in which it just happened on yesterday. Oh, got it, Dave. He riled folks up intentionally. And that's what directly led to this shooting. This is a racket. And it goes back to what Stu was saying about there having been a period of time in America when we really were turning the corner on racial issues. What the left decided to do right around the year 2000 is when it happened is stuff that you don't even know you're doing. It's your privilege. And white supremacy is systemic, right? It's not a thing that you do. It's a thing that you are. And they claim that all of this invisible white supremacy manifests itself in shootings and violence and all these things with absolutely no evidence to support that whatsoever. They've made, as Stu pointed out, Americans believe that race relations are far, far worse than they were 30 years ago. This has been an unmitigated disaster. And if we don't return to the idea of the colorblind model,

where Joe Biden absolutely can say that anti-white rhetoric is a problem too, then we're going to be stuck with this. I wrote a piece years ago in 2016 called Anti-White Rhetoric is Fueling White Nationalism, where I said, if asking white people to examine themselves and their whiteness this way, it's not going to turn out the way you want. It's not going to lead to some, you know, white catharsis and an egalitarian society. It's going to lead to more tribalism and it's going to lead to some white catharsis and an egalitarian society. It's going to lead to more tribalism. And it's going to lead a lot of white people, particularly those who don't think of themselves as particularly privileged, to feel some resentment at the fact that their tribe is the only one that doesn't get the special benefits of victimhood. So this is a horrible mess.

This woman, we just played Representative Angie Nixon, she went on to tweet out, this isn't a mental health issue. This is a systemic racism issue, period. It's kind of hard to believe Ron DeSantis and his condemnation of the shooter when he continually pushes anti black policies. OK. And he created an environment ripe for this by getting, I mean, really, what has he actually done that she's complaining about? He's trying to get critical race theory out of schools. That's it.

Where you're teaching little black children that they're somehow less than because of the color of their skin and teaching the little white children that they have the guilt of their forefathers 400 years or 200 years ago, who they may or may not have been related to. Right. That's basically what critical race theory is. Then there's Florida State Representative

Anna Eskamani, Democrat, who says DeSantis says that here that targeting people based on their race is completely unacceptable. And yet he's built an entire political career on race baiting and culture wars, targeting people, targeting people via awful policies for who they are. Absolutely disgusting stuff. I mean, what's disgusting is to just loosely use the murder of three innocents to advance your own political agenda against a sitting Republican governor. That's what's being done to him here, Stu. He's tough enough to take it. But this is what happens every time. They would not be saying this if you had a same facts.

You had a white shooter killing three black innocents in a state that was controlled by a blue state Democrat. There was no way this woman would have said anything, even if the Democrat had been more moderate and had also been opposed to critical race theory. It's about his politics. Yeah, and it's completely transparent and honestly revolting. Like it's a horrible part of the human instinct to try to take advantage for your own gain and your own party's gain of a tragic shooting like this.

And now for her to talk about what DeSantis has done to black people, it's completely ridiculous. I mean, first of all, his election showed that African-Americans in the state were far more likely to vote for him than most Republicans across the country. He had obviously a wide reelection and his way of dealing with the CRT issue in schools was to appoint an African-American among others to design a curriculum that would tell black history accurately. Um, it's, it's, it's terrible. And it's, a lot of this is, I think, uh, downstream of this idea that Dave was just talking about earlier. And that like you, when you take a situation where we had all kind of realized, all right, look, the whole skin color thing is stupid, right? Like we all understand we should be judging people based on merit, not based on the color of skin, the color of skin. We all look back at that and think it was a terrible idea.

Let's get away from that. And what the left has done to push back against that idea for some reason is instead of embracing it and saying, thank God we've, we've, we've come over this important hurdle and we've made a lot of progress toward positive ends, has instead looked at it the other way and say, instead, let's now make race the most important thing. Let's look at it as the only qualification that you need to consider. Let's make it number one in front of everyone all the time. Every issue will be viewed through that prism of race. And what happens when you tell a country that race is the most important thing? Well, some people are going to take that the wrong way and say, well, yeah, it is the most important thing. And, you know, my dad was a white supremacist and now maybe I will

be too. Instead of allowing people to progress, they put people in these racial, you know, I don't know, rings and they instead are captured in there and decide they have to make it the most important thing and fight for it. What you're getting at, what you're getting, again, that we have zero evidence that anything, any public figure has said had anything to do with the shooting. Zero. But you're saying that if we're living in a racialized cauldron, it's the fault of the Democrats who are pushing this back into our faces. This is similar to the point that Vivek Ramaswamy was making recently. And he's but he was all over the Sunday shows and I thought did a masterful job of defending himself.

And this point much better on this stuff than he is on the bullshit 9-11 trutherism. That's clear. He went out there and said something about Ayanna Pressley. She is a black woman. She is a congresswoman. She's part of the so-called squad. And he was in Iowa and was talking about how she is part of the problem. He says she's a member of the squad. I think we have this on tape. Actually, let's listen to Vivek on Ayanna Pressley as he's talking about neo-racism on the left. I have experienced racism comes from the modern left at a scale unimaginable because I think they feel a sense of betrayal. Ayanna Pressley, she's in the Congress today. She's a member of the squad. Her words, not mine. We don't want any more black faces that don't want to be a black voice. We don't want any more brown faces that don't want to be a brown voice.

Ibram Kendi, here's what it says. Opening lines. The remedy to past discrimination is present discrimination. The remedy to present discrimination is future discrimination. So the other side will gaslight you when you say this stuff is like, oh, you're just making that critical race theory stuff up. No, no, no. These aren't my words. These are the words of the modern grand wizards of the modern KKK. Okay, so that last bit turned into a segment on CNN with Dana Bash over the weekend where she pressed him on suggesting people like Kendi, people like Ayanna Pressley are akin to the modern day

grand wizards of the modern day KKK. Listen. You know, I'm sure the KKK was responsible for more than a century's worth of horrific lynchings, rapes, murders of black people. How in any way are the views you're talking about comparable to the views and atrocities committed by the KKK? What I said is the grand wizards of the KKK would be proud of what they would hear her say,

because there's nothing more racist than saying that your skin color predicts something about the content of your viewpoints or your ideas. You didn't just say they would be proud. You said these are the words of the modern grand wizards of the modern KKK. It is the same spirit. You're right about that, Dana. I think it is the same spirit to say that I can look at you and based on just your skin color, that I know something about the content of your character, that I know something about the content of the viewpoints

you're allowed to express. For Ayanna Pressley to tell me that because of my skin color, I can't express my views. That is wrong. It is divisive. First of all, isn't it great to see him fight back? It's so great to see like a Republican running for president, like running for office. So this is a big office. He's just not back down at all to her. Like, I'm not buying into your racial bullshit. If these are the people who are dividing us, not me, not not my side that you want to blame everything on you in the press. And he he did it in Iowa earlier in that first speech. I just showed you the clip of where he said the thing about the KKK. He said, this is a great point

talking about the neo-racism on the left. He cited a post made by journalist Kara Swisher after the debate, and she called him Vivek Rama Smarmy. She tweeted out best nickname I've heard so far for this tech bro, Rama Smarmy. And years below, leaving comments open on this one for now, V. And he said, imagine if that came from someone at a right wing rally at me. the case, taking an ethnic last name and mispronouncing it or coming up with a nickname like that. He's so right. He's so right, Dave. How you could ever get away with Vivek Ramasmarmy, a brown skin man running for president if he were a Democrat and you would set it as a white person. No, of course he's right. And this is the essence of critical race theory, that racism can only happen essentially, I mean, from white people. I mean, they're pretty blatant About two years ago, I think one of the best guys on these issues is Brown University professor Glenn Lowry. And I saw Glenn Lowry on his podcast make a point to his co-host John McWhorter, where he said, white people need to stop being afraid to

call this stuff out. Because for the past 15 or 20 years, I think most white people have felt like, well, who am I to really weigh in on this? Maybe I just keep my 20 years, I think most white people have felt like, well, who am I to really weigh in on this? Maybe I just keep my mouth shut. I don't want people to call me a racist, whatever it is. And he says that, you know, Lowry was like, that's not helping. Like, that leaves the entire responsibility to us. We need your help in this. And so I hope that, that, you know, Indian Americans and white Americans and Hispanic Americans and every American will call this out for what it is. And it's racism. As Vivek said, if you think that someone's skin color gives you valuable information about them and, you know, unless you're their doctor, then that's racism. The other thing he did, Stu, was back on the

subject of the shooting in Jacksonville, made the case that this is a mental health problem and that we've seen it over and over. First, he said, we have a mental health epidemic and we need the courage to bring back psychiatric institutions. Hello, 100 percent. Been saying that for years. And he's right. And then he got into an interesting exchange with Chuck Todd on really who's behind these race based crimes. Isn't it always the people on the right? Interesting that Chuck Todd didn't get into the politics of the black people who shot all those white people that I just went through. I didn't see him do that. I didn't see him go back and

figure out what their manifesto said. He just wanted to zero in on this one and listen to that exchange. What do you think? There are more race based violent crimes on the right than on the left. Why is this a little more pervasive, a lot more pervasive on the right? Well, the fact of the matter is, I think that there's a lot more violence that's also pervasive in parts of the country that supposedly are left-wing voter bases. Do you ignore the elements that allowed this manifesto to spread online? Well, the fact of the matter is I do think we have two standards that we're even applying if we're having a conversation about manifestos. We still have not yet even seen the manifesto of that transgender shooter

in Nashville of a Christian school. And yet here we're focusing on the motive. So if we want to look at this through a politicized lens, let's look at what the political media and the political establishment is doing differentially in how they analyze different crimes and then create a new narrative around it. Do you believe racism is a mental health issue?

Well, I do believe that racism in many cases is manufactured in a way that creates more racism in this country. I cannot think of a greater way, Chuck, of driving racism in this country than to take something else away from someone based on the color of their skin. And so is there existing racism in the United States? Of course there is. But those last burning embers of racism, the last thing I want to do is throw kerosene on it. It's so great to see somebody articulating what we know is true so well, right? So powerfully. How many years have you guys been sitting there watching the Sunday TV and watching those anchors

try to do the gotchas on the Republican candidates or talking heads. And they're just not as good as Vivek is at turning around and saying, basically, you're full of shit. You've totally framed the issue in a dishonest way. Let me fix it for you, Stu, right? Yes. And your swearing is incredibly satisfying today, I have to say. It's incredible. It's so true. It's like Vivek is really quick. He's very smart. And there's a reason why he's making an impact in the campaign, even though I know he's had some missteps and not everyone is in love with his style. He's a very smart guy and he's a very quick guy and he doesn't care. He keeps pushing back. And I'm so glad he pushed back against this particular,

this generalization that's made. I have not, you know, I don't know, maybe I missed something in the manifesto reporting that was going on, but was there a long rant about low taxes in there? Was there deregulation? What what makes you think this guy was right wing other than the fact that you have assigned racism to Republicans? That's the only connection here. I completely reject this, this, this entire construct. Collectivism is racism. Racism is collectivism. They're totally tied together. A Republican view, a conservative, a traditional conservative view rejects this completely because you look at people as individuals. Having a small government doesn't give you the power to implement something like slavery that doesn't exist in that in that stance and i think like you look at this as a you have to see people as members of groups instead of individuals and that is what the left does the left is constantly trying to push us into groups and there's a reason why you go back throughout our history the overwhelming every single kkk member was a Democrat throughout all

of history. This is the way that this worked. And yes, look, there are Republican nut jobs. There are conservatives who would say they're conservative and are racist. Of course, that is. But we judge them by individuals that was fallen down in our nation over the past few years has been the destruction of merit based thinking instead of focusing on immutable characteristics. And man, if we could just go back to just seeing people for who they are, what we should be doing with this shooter is not blaming Ron DeSantis and not even blaming some larger racial issue. We should be blaming the person who is actually who is actually guilty of the crime. And we've just completely given up on that as a society. Mm hmm. Can we talk about Vivek for one second, Dave? Because I was annoyed, as the audience knows, they love Vivek. But I'm sorry, I did not appreciate the 9-11 flirtation with trutherism. People say, oh, he's just making a comparison to January 6th. Well, don't don't don't compare any 9-11 to anything. OK, don't say we need an

investigation into whether there were federal agents on the planes because we don't. There were no federal agents on the planes. This wasn't an inside job. Just stop it. Stop it. OK, but this is I mean, I've been friends with a vague for longer than most of you have known his name. OK, he and I go back quite a ways. I've had I had him on this podcast when he was an unknown. So I know the guy and I know he's capable of this kind of super smart argumentation, putting really good ideas into words in a way that's very compelling. That's his bread and butter. That's where he should stay. He doesn't need I'm talking politics now to to do like conspiracy stuff or flirt with the conspiratorial part of the Republican Party.

And he doesn't need to go as far as he's going on the January 6th stuff in general. So that was the downside of his interview with Chuck Todd, where Vivek is now pretending that Mike Pence on January 6th had the option, rather than just counting the votes that had already come into him from the states, to stop the whole thing and force voting voter ID laws down the throats of American of Americans, something we have not been able to do for years now. This has been that we have not been able to reach a national consensus on this. Yes, it's a Republican favorite, but it's not a Democrat. He's listen to what he said to Chuck Todd. It's an absurdity what he's saying. It's dishonest. And my advice to Vivek is to stick to the issues on which you are so very strong and stop doing this other. I don't know what it is. Is it just like sweet nothings that he's trying to whisper into the ears of like the hardcore Trump supporters

because it's not necessary. They're grownups. They know you can't do the shit that he just listed. Listen. Mike Pence did the right thing on January 6th. Do you agree? I would have done it very differently. I think that there was a historic opportunity that he missed to reunite this country in that window. Here's what I would have said. We need single day voting on election day. We need paper ballots and we need government issued ID matching the voter file. And if we achieve that, then we have achieved victory and we should not have any further complaint about election integrity. So I would have driven it through the Senate. So what would you have done with Mike Pence? You would have not certified the election? So in my capacity as president of the

Senate, I would have led through that level of reform. Then on that condition, certified the election results, served it up to the president, President Trump, then to sign that into law. And on January 7th, declared the reelection campaign pursuant to a free and fair election. I think that was a missed opportunity. What is he saying, Dave? I don't know. Has he ever heard of Chuck Schumer? I mean, really? Mike Pence could have told Chuck Schumer, well, I'm not going to certify the election unless you get, I mean, why, why stop there? Like, why not demand a balanced budget, right? Like, why not demand more gun freedom? I mean, if Mike Pence could do

that, if the sitting vice president could do that, then they could really just like on the way out, do anything the hell they want. I mean, it makes absolutely no sense. Clearly. It's nonsense. Yes. And it contradicts his previous position. But I think you're right, Megan. I think that there is a segment of the sort of MAGA base that aren't necessarily like 9-11 truthers or don't necessarily believe that Mike Pence really had the authority to do all of that, but like this big talk, right? Like the idea of I'm going to say things that you're not supposed to say because I'm the truth teller. And it did strike me,

you know, Vivek made the 9-11 comments on a podcast that sort of swims in those waters. It did strike me that on that example, I think he was 15 when 9-11 happened. And I'm not giving him a pass, but I do think that as time goes by, like maybe younger people don't understand what a third rail that is for people who are my age. But I agree with you 100 percent. First of all, he doesn't need these supporters. Second of all, he's never actually going to get them because they're all already voting for Trump. So, yeah, you're spot on and like stick to the issues that are that are turning heads. And I think he can continue to do well. What do you make of this, too? Because I see him on those earlier clips and I'm like, the fake for president, the fake run, baby run. Right. And then I see him with the nonsense.

Oh, I see. So Mike Pence had the ability with his pen to create a national voter ID law, to create a national holiday so we could all vote on on actual voting day to get rid of mail in ballots. Well, amazing. He was derelict in his duty not to push all that shit through. That's a lie. It's a pander. I'm sick of that version. Vivek is smarter and can do so much better. And I do think it's like, why are you feeding some faction of the base that thinks any of that could happen? That's a lie. And even if a vague says, OK, well, he should have been pushing for it between what, November, the date of the vote in November and January 6th. That's what leadership would have been. That's a lie, too. Right. He did not have the power. That was never going to happen.

And you go back to that period between, you know, the vote on November and January 6th. The country was divided. No one was believing the Trump shit about the fraud. They were unable to prove it in court. Yes, maybe they would have done better had they had more time. But now we've had a couple of years and they have not been able to prove it. Accept reality. Move on. Mike Pence didn't have these powers. Instead, they want to believe some section wants to believe the sweet nothings and he dishonestly is feeding them. I think I think you're right on that. I totally agree. Look, we all respect the founders, right? It's kind of a baseline part of conservatism to understand the founding of this country. And

if you think the founders came up with a system in which the sitting vice president could overrule the election and it just kind of sat around undiscovered for a couple of centuries until Eastman discovered it a week before they needed it. I mean, it's obviously an absurd idea. It doesn't make any sense. And look, Pence did act appropriately in that moment. And I think what's happening with Evick, and I'm with you on this, Megan, because he's been on with us a bunch of times before he was running for president. He wrote a really good book called Woke Inc. It was really an excellent breakdown of what's going on in the world. He's taken action on this stuff, too.

He created a fund for people to invest in companies that would push back against ESG standards and these important concepts that he brought a lot of awareness to. I mean, people even on the right weren't really aware of them until Vivek brought a lot of these concepts to their attention on shows like yours. So he has something really important to contribute to the conversation. He's very smart. I think his campaign at times has felt like the guy, you know, at work, who's really smart. And every once in a while he blurts out something that's not true, but thinks he's smart enough to talk his way out of. That's what this weekend show thing felt like to me this weekend. Like he, he knows Mike Pence could not have pushed that through. He understands he's on, he knows all of this.

He just feels like he's now in this corner. And, and if what we like about Vivek and what we liked about him in those initial clips is that he wouldn't back down. And I think he's so, he's so worried about looking like he's backing is that he wouldn't back down. And I think he's so he's so worried about looking like he's backing down that he's like, I'm just going to push through it and I'm just going to make these arguments and I'm going to look smart and I'm not going to say I'm one time and I'm going to nail this. And I just think he's he's backed himself into a corner. He really

can't pull himself out rationally. You know what? The Fox News, the Fox business debate is in September. It's a brand new day. He doesn't have to go on the stage and say everybody here is bought and paid for. You know, I'm sure there's some segment that believes that, but it's not true. Come on. Like, do you want the Republicans to win the next presidential election or don't you? Right. Like, do you want to beat Joe Biden or don't you? How is Doug Burgum bought and paid for? He could buy and sell everybody on that stage's entire families, probably including Vivek, who's a very rich and successful man. Like he'sum bought and paid for. He could buy and sell everybody on that stage's entire families, probably including Vivek, who's a very rich and successful man. Like he's not bought and paid for.

He made his own way in this world. He's up there doing his public service. Like just stop. There's no reason to get personally insulting of all these folks who want to serve, who want to oust Joe Biden same way Vivek does. So September is another day. He doesn't have to do any of this nonsense. He should go back to his bread and butter issues. He can talk about anything substantively, probably better than most people up there. He's got maybe some homework to do on foreign policy. I think Nikki Haley's not wrong that he should do some more homework on that. I'm not saying he's right or wrong on Ukraine, just saying to me, he's got the flavor of somebody who did a little reading and went out there and started repeating some memorized talking points. And he's going to have to know things much more

in depth than that. But he actually could have a shot. He actually could have a shot. Like if something happened to Trump where he got convicted and I don't like I don't know what's going to happen to Trump. But Vivek is probably the next choice of a lot of the hardcore Trump supporters. And he could get the rest of the party to rally around him if he just cleaned up this one weird strain of his campaign. That's not to not be an outsider. You can criticize the other candidates, do all that stuff. There's just like a little fringy stuff happening now that I think he's getting support for online. And I think it's tinting the way he sees himself and his true mission. All right. Stand by because I'm going to take a quick break. And then when we come back,

we're going to do some cultural issues, including you remember the Canadian shop teacher with, I know you guys do with the enormous fake prosthetic breasts who he claimed that he said that they were real. He said he has a condition. Well, he's back and we'll tell you what he's doing now. Stand by. Kayla Lemieux is back. So it's a man in Canadian shop class. He's teaching shop. Remember your shop teacher? Nine times out of 10, it's a dude. And it's like a grisly dude. And it's typically like a non-PC dude. He's a tool man. You know, it's like, what? Okay, not Kayla. Kayla is a man who decides to go by Kayla and wear these enormous, giant, prosthetic breasts with fake nipples that are so in your face with a ridiculous wig. I mean,

like other than these enormous breasts, Kayla is not even trying to look female because look at the face. I'm sorry, but like there's no effort to look feminine at all other than the weird hair and those enormous breasts. Kayla, in like an amazing piece of journalism, first gave an interview to the New York Post, which I mean, the Post should be getting a Pulitzer Prize for this. This is a few months back where Kayla told the Post that Kayla is not transgender, but was instead born intersex. And in response to which I say, sure, Dan, don't believe Kayla born intersex. And in response to which I say, Sure, Jan. Don't believe Kayla is intersex. I think Kayla's a full dude working out Kayla's sexual fantasies in front of these children.

And that the New York Post got the statement from Kayla that Kayla suffers allegedly from a condition known as gigantomastia. Gigantomastia, guys. I mean, I guess Pam anderson caught it in part um dolly parton caught it in part oh wait it's not prosthetic breasts it's natural breasts that just grow and grow and grow and grow despite your best wishes that they would stop it's a lie we know

it's a lie because the brilliant journalists at rebel news our friends up in canada track down kayla who look if kayla wants to do this in kayla's spare time it's really none of my business it's weird and i wouldn't want kayla around my kids but the problem is kayla's been doing this in front of kids in front of minors in shop class i mean one false move and one of those breasts is gone on that saw. No child needs to be subjected to that or to Kayla's sexual fetish. Rebel News found Kayla while dressed as a man, which is what Kayla is, without Kayla's totally natural breasts in a clip I can't get enough of. This is from a couple months ago. Watch. Where are your breasts? Where are your breasts? Why are you dressing inappropriately

in front of children? Can you believe it, folks? Like a cornered rat. He ran for the hills. He didn't even have the guts to come back to his car. He's abandoned it here. He called an Uber. But did you notice? No breasts. But Lemieux, I thought you told the world via the New York Post and the Toronto Sun that those were real mammary glands. Rebel News, I love you. I love you, Rebel News. Good job. Good job. So the reason all this is relevant is because if Kayla's not trans and not a woman with gigantomastia, Kayla's sick. Kayla's one sick effer. This is Kayla. It's a dude. There's no boobs. It's a man. And Kayla's clearly working out, as I said, a sexual fetish in front of minors. I think Kayla should be fired. I don't think Kayla should be employed at any school.

What happened instead was they made it into a dress code controversy where the parents were upset. These are Canadians. They're very soft on the woke stuff. You know, like even the ones who are on our side are afraid. And so they went in and said there should be a dress code. Why is this guy wearing mini skirts and enormous fake boobs and nipples in front of our kids? So that was the big push, change the dress code so that no teacher can do this I draw the line on my swearing, but they were P words. They would not change the dress code and they left it intact such that Kayla could return potentially to the classroom wearing all that same stuff. Well, Kayla instead decided to move

to another school district where Kayla has been hired to teach full-time there with the same school board presiding over Kayla's new employer. And guess what else? Here's the last bit, and then I'll let you guys have it. They have announced to the new parent body that as a result of hiring Kayla, the school knows it's going to have to, quote, boost security. That as a result of Lemieux's gender expression becoming the subject of public attention, that they expect this, you know, blowback,

and that the high school has a responsibility to uphold individual rights, treat everyone with dignity and respect, and that now they need new safety precautions. All the students have to enter and exit the building using assigned doors, an entry and dismissal. They have to lock exterior doors during school hours, using only the front main doors during school hours. The parents must email or call before coming to the school

if they ever wish to speak to an employee. All exterior doors must be locked during school hours. You can only use blah, blah, blah, blah. Okay, going on. So the solution is fortify the school against, not like a potential shooter necessarily, but an angry parent who doesn't want this shit playing out in front of their kid. I can't. I can't. Dave, would you like to take it? Yeah, listen, this is all part of a ritual humiliation that the left has been

using to try to shove the trans agenda down people's throats. There was a time in 2015 or 2016 when most conservatives, myself included, were willing to have a reasonable conversation about accommodation, right? I always thought the bathroom issue, which was the first one that kicked off, was kind of silly because there are ways around that, right?

But locker rooms are a different thing. Prisons are a different thing. Shelters are a different thing. We were prepared to try to have these conversations. Instead, the left said, no, you're not allowed to have this conversation. To even have this conversation is bigotry. You're going to look at Leah Thomas towering over female swimmers, and you're going to accept that that is perfectly normal. You're going to look at this insane person with gigantic fake breasts teaching children and you are going to say that is perfectly normal.

What's the next step? What's the next thing that we're supposed to accept is perfectly normal? Two plus two isn't five. And I'm finished with these people. I mean, I'm not willing right now to have this conversation about accommodation until we start having a conversation about the basic truth. bibbity-bobbity-boop boutique. They got rid of fairy godmothers in training. Now it has to be their apprentice because, well, I'll show you why. This is why. Look, they're going to have dudes like these guys.

It's an obvious dude. An obvious dude in a woman's fairy princess dress. We saw this a couple months ago. Now there are more. These are two new ones. Huge men. They happen to be large size guys in dresses at the Bibbidi-Bobbidi-Boop boutique where parents are just trying to enjoy the Magic Kingdom, whether it's Disneyland or Disney World.

I'm not sure, but I think it was Disneyland, according to Libs of TikTok. That's the next step. So, Stu, we got a deal. We're just sending our kids to school. They're going to the shop. I made a little birdhouse. Most of us made like a shelf. My kid Yates, he made a chair. We went to Disney. My daughter, Yardley, got her hair done.

Look at this guy's got facial hair. This is what we have to deal with. It really is incredible. I took my kids to Disney right before before covet and i'm so so glad i remember thinking after covet started jeez i'm glad we didn't wait a few months because who knows when it's going to open up again and instead now it's like they're never going back there good luck when you're 18 going back to that place if that's what you want to do on your own dime bibbidi-bobbidi bye bye it's it's incredible to look at this. I mean, like Dave pointed out, you know, the accommodations point. And I think that's what Americans want. You know, like the polling on gay rights changed over a long period of time. And I think the reason that was successful with with conservatives was they said, look, you know, you're doing your own thing and you want to do your own thing. You do your thing and we'll do our own thing and that's that's all we have to do we're not involved in your decision

you want to make a decision that's different you live a different lifestyle okay we can deal with that we kind of have that live and let live mentality here in the united states generally um this is the trans thing is totally different because you're not asking us you're you're asking us to do something different you're asking us to participate in something that is untrue you're asking us to do something different. You're asking us to participate in something that is untrue. You're asking us to say, actually, no, she isn't unwell, right? You're asking us to confirm that. You're asking us to participate in a lie. That's a really heavy ask of a person who has any conscience. You're asking us to go along with something that we know to be untrue. And you look at these situations around kids. I don't know what the situation is with this one particular teacher, because there's two people this could be. It could be

just some psychopath who just wants to get their rocks off in front of kids. And it could be someone who's severely mentally ill. I don't even know what she's saying. That's not me. I think she would have a difference. Yeah. I suppose you're right. When she's saying that's not me, Yeah. I suppose you're right. Um, when she's saying that's not me, she may think she's a totally different person. I have, I have no idea, but when we can all look at, sorry, he, or we could all look at this and laugh at it at some level because of how ridiculous the fake boobs are. But every part of the argument that this teacher makes is consistent with what the left is saying is reality. When he says he's a woman and should be respected for his fake boobs

because he is saying she's a woman, that decision he has made to identify as something else is something that everybody on television is telling us we should confirm and agree with. Like, we're supposed to participate in this madness. We, as Americans, are totally willing to let madness go on all around us all the time. But when you ask us to participate in it and intentionally put it in front of our kids on a daily basis, that's where we step up. That's when we say no. That's when we put our hands out and say, look, we're not participating.

It would be bad enough if Kayla Lemieux were just dressing as a woman. That would be bad enough. But Kayla Lemieux is clearly, it is a sexual fetish. There is a reason for those enormous breasts and then the aggressive nipples at the end of them. There's a reason. It is a sexual fetish. And the vast majority of men dressing as women, claiming to be women, I mean, a huge portion of those men are autogynephiles who get off on it. They get off sexually on it. So what I really don't want, I don't want this in front of my kids, period. And I don't want my kids dealing with the bibbidi-bobbidi-boo

people, scaring them. But I really don't want some guy with an erection around my children. That's what I really don't want. I don't want whether it's Leah Thomas or this Kayla or you do not like fucking teach the shop. All right. Keep your erection at home. Keep it away from my kid, because honestly, this is where it's really going to go down. Dave, I know you're a father. This is where the shit's really going to go down. Dave, I know your father. This is where the shit's really going to go down. You get off anywhere near my kid and you and I are going to have a serious, serious problem. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, this is why this is why the attacks against groups like Moms for Liberty are not working. You know, I think I mentioned the last time I was on that that I attended that conference. I covered it for Fox. And yeah, this this this is their point. I worry about it a lot. I mean, part of the reason that I a big part of the reason that I live in West Virginia now and not New York City, which is the place that I love most in the world, is that it was that it was absolutely untenable in the schools. Every day for my son was some it was pride day blm day trans every day megan um and you know when he was 11 right he sent me a

screenshot because he knows what i do and his mom's also a conservative journalist he said he sent us a screenshot from his school um of a drop down box on a survey that he had to take. Right. He was 11. It asked him his gender and non-binary and trans. Right. We're options. It's inappropriate. Everybody knows this. And that's that takes us back to this ritual humiliation of forcing you to look at a blue wall and say that wall is red. And they're trying to make us do it. And I'm really grateful for all of your work in not letting them do that. And, you know, I've made the same mistake that Stu makes where I'm talking about one

of these stories and I use she instead of he just because it's confusing and you're so used to it. And but you're dead on in what you say that we have to be careful about confusing and you're so used to it. And, but you're dead on in what you say that we have to be careful about that because we're losing grip of reality. Yeah. I've been wanting to ask you about the move from New York to West Virginia, because you know, we, we fled New York for the very same reasons you just outlined. And you and I follow each other on Twitter. You're one of the best Twitter followers, by the way. People need to follow Blue Box Dave. And you, initially, I remember saying, like,

I would never leave. You're such a diehard New Yorker. And it gave me pangs. Like, I know there are such great things about New York, but we felt like we had to do it. And when you left and went to West Virginia, I was like, I've got to talk to him about what the final straw was,

because I know the bar was very high for you to leave. Yeah, that was it. That my kid was was really the bar. One way that I put it, you know, he was born in 2010. And if you had told me in 2010, when your son's 13, like he and three of his buddies are going to take the subway from Brooklyn into Manhattan, go see a movie, they'll be back 8, 8.30 at night. I would have said, sure. But I mean, I wouldn't have thought twice about it. Not a chance in hell. Not a chance in hell would I let him do that today. So I didn't feel like it was a good place to be a teenager. And I will say, I've been here about seven months now. And it's also, it's been really useful for me professionally just to be outside of

those waters where all of the decisions are made about what's important, about what we cover, about which shootings get covered and which ones don't. Because the people that I've met here in West Virginia are incredibly welcoming people. These aren't their priorities at all. I mean, these people read local news. So it's been really fascinating to see life outside of a major urban area because I've never experienced it before. Can I tell you that? So we were in the private school system in New York. The public school system has lost its mind, too. But a friend sent me the Horace Mann, which is one of the best private schools in Manhattan. It's always been, you know, considered very tony, very hard to get into, very academically rigorous, which is why most parents would send their children there, sent me the, it's the annual student medical form, the parent page. You got your grade,

your student's name, sex assigned at birth, male, female, or intersex, gender identity, right underneath that, girl, boy, I'm reading from this now, I'm looking at it trans boy trans girl non-binary gender fluid other than students affirming pronouns she her he him they them other and we could go down the list um it's like this is this is our new reality we're going to pretend that this is all real and you can identify as i mean i pity the poor teachers you, not all of whom are far lefties who are going to have to deal with this nonsense. Not to mention, I've talked to teachers who say some of these kids on Monday, they're saying they're girls on Tuesday, they're saying they're boys. And they expect the teachers to like go with the wind. Like the student gets to update the teacher on his or her gender from day to day.

Stu, it's madness. It's madness. It is madness. It's one of the reasons I live in Texas and even in Texas with, I think, better schools than some of the other areas in the country. I have my kids in private school as well. And when we started there, I remember thinking, look, you know, I don't want to pay double. It's expensive. Let's see how this goes. And now I would be living under a bridge and every dollar I had would go to sending them to this school rather than living anything else I spent money on because it's that important to me.

And Megan, if I could just echo what Dave said too about your efforts on this. I will say, I love your show. I love listening to your podcast. You have really great interviews and maybe with the exception of this particular one. But generally speaking, you're great. And I love listening to your show. But I will say my wife in particular and my wife's friends are really moved by your efforts in this

and how frank you've been on this particular topic. It's really hard for an average person to speak out about this. I've seen that moms talking with each other, they don't know how to express this. And the fact that you've been one of the people speaking out so loudly and bravely on this, had academics on with real research, real backing, and you're not doing it at a place of anger. It's not idiotic, you know, internet rambling. You've done this with

precision and real fire. And I can tell you, to moms in this country, I've talked to a lot of them. They really say thank you. So just passing that word on from my wife. Thank you, Stu. And what's your wife's name? Lisa Page. And thank you, Lisa Page. I appreciate that. It's been an evolution for me, too. I think I was definitely much more in the let's accept, let's affirm, let's be kind category a few years ago. And we've seen where that's gotten us. I want to end with this personal note because I had an amazing time this weekend and I just wanted to tell people about what happened. I went, you know, I'm at the Jersey Shore for the summer.

I went to Atlantic City with some friends. We saw comedian Jim Brewer, who is on this show. Steve, was it episode 202? Was it 202? 202. So you got it was like one of the only times I've extended the interview beyond the Sirius XM show. I've done it a handful of times, but I think he might have been the first. He's such a compelling guy. His life story is very moving. He's suffered a lot. This is my friend. These are my friends and Jim and yours truly. He was hysterical, you guys. If you need to laugh. Right. And we all need to laugh. We've talked about a lot of dark subjects today. Go see Jim Brewer. He's on tour. I think his next his next appearance is it in Raleigh, North Carolina.

But check just just go to Jim Brewer dot com. It's B-R-E-U-E-R dot com. Well worth your time. He did a bit on President Biden out in Hawaii. And it's like his physical humor is second to none. A bit on hunting, a bit on a prostate situation. He had was just gold. I'm telling you. And who doesn't want to laugh in these troubled times? Stu, Dave, thank you guys so much for being parts of the voice of reason. Thank you, Megan. Appreciate it. Thanks, Dave, thank you guys so much for being part of the voice of reason. Thank you, Megan. Appreciate it. Thanks, Megan. See you soon. And thanks to all of you for joining me. I want to tell you that tomorrow we have VDH Victor Davis hands him back with us. Speaking of sense. So looking forward to hearing his thoughts on the latest on Trump, that mugshot with the Dems are doing crime and the latest on

illegal immigration in these sanctuary cities now thinking twice. We'll see you then. Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.