The Megyn Kelly Show - Media's Faulty "Fact-Checking," and Trump's Path to 2024 Victory, with Ben Shapiro, Joseph Massey, and Robert Cahaly | Ep. 754

Episode Date: April 1, 2024

Megyn Kelly is joined by The Daily Wire's Ben Shapiro, host of "The Divided States of Biden," to discuss the corporate media claiming they only care about “truth” while attacking Donald Trump supporters, Kristen Welker’s “fact-checking” about Trump’s New York hush money trial, the the press' total lack of introspection and self-awareness, how Biden’s border policy is enabling America’s deadly fentanyl epidemic, the dangers of drugs in this generation compared to the past, Trump going to an NYPD officer’s wake and Biden going to a celebrity interview and glitzy fundraiser instead, whether Trump should stay out of headlines to better his chance of winning, what Shapiro and former President Donald Trump discussed at a recent fundraiser he hosted, Candace Owens' Daily Wire exit, and more. Then Robert Cahaly, founder and chief pollster of The Trafalgar Group, joins to discuss what to make of the recent swing state polls, the need to look at the source and methods of the polls, a new Trafalgar national poll of likely voters, whether Robert F. Kennedy Jr. has a chance to make a real impact and help Trump, Trump's potential major improvement with black voters, and more. Then Joseph Massey, author of "Decades: Selected Poems," joins to discuss the value of poetry to provide a “palate cleanser” in our toxic culture today, the toxicity of social media, the imagery in his writing, recovering from being canceled, and more. Shapiro- https://www.dailywire.com/show/the-divided-states-of-bidenCahaly- https://www.thetrafalgargroup.org/robert-cahaly/Massey- https://www.poetrydispatches.com/ Follow The Megyn Kelly Show on all social platforms: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/MegynKellyTwitter: http://Twitter.com/MegynKellyShowInstagram: http://Instagram.com/MegynKellyShowFacebook: http://Facebook.com/MegynKellyShow Find out more information at: https://www.devilmaycaremedia.com/megynkellyshow 

Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at noon east. Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show. I hope you and your family had a happy Easter. If you celebrated a lovely weekend with your families, I did. I had a really nice time with the fam and did go to church and it was absolutely lovely. OK, we have a great show lined up for you today. Later, we're going to be joined by a pollster for the latest on twenty twenty four. There have been a bunch of polls since the State of the Union suggesting that Joe Biden is having a bit of a comeback, that his numbers are getting a little bit better, especially in the swing states. So we're going to take a hard look at that and find out whether it's true. And if so, why?

And then later, our favorite poet, Joseph Massey, is back with us. Remember Joseph? They tried to cancel him. The poetry world is evil. You may not know this. You know how everything is woke. Restaurants are woke. Starbucks is woke. Poetry is woke. And Joseph Massey was a beautiful poet doing beautiful work who got targeted and then completely annihilated by these evil people. And slowly but surely, you, people like you, and you actually, you have been rehabilitating Joseph's career and making it possible for him to do even something as unique as poetry in an independent lane without the support of these evil, woke jerks who tried to ruin him over an allegation that was made by an ex-girlfriend

with whom his relationship ended badly. Anyway, I love when he's on. We'll look at some of his poetry and just some of, just the way Joseph makes me feel. That's, I love when he's on. We'll look at some of his poetry and just some of, just the way Joseph makes me feel. That's what I love about reading his work and looking at his photography. Just the way you feel, you feel like a different version of yourself, a better version of yourself, more contemplative, um, more thoughtful, more hopeful, which is kind of interesting because Joseph, you know, I think he would describe himself as somebody who struggles with depression. Anyway, we'll get to him, but we begin with somebody who is very sparky. He's not usually writing about the darkness or the light. He's usually bringing it, bringing his

A-game from his studios now in Nashville, Tennessee, Florida, formerly of L.A., and that is Ben Shapiro. You may have heard of him. He's my pal and he runs The Daily Wire, or at least founded The Daily Wire. And there's a lot to go over with him. President Biden embroiled in an Easter controversy. There's so much. Let's just get to it. Ben Shapiro is with us today. Ben, great to see you. How are you doing? Hey, doing pretty well. Hope you had a great Easter. I did. Thank you very much. OK, I want to get to the series that you are doing, The Divided States of Biden, because I know second episode takes a hard look at fentanyl, which is something I really want to discuss. But I want to start with something that happened on

another podcast this morning. I don't know if you ever listened to The Daily, right? The New York Times is The Daily, but I always listen to it because it's just interesting. I listen to Morning Wire. I like it from all different sources. And today's The Daily is amazing. It's amazing. They have on my old pal, Jim Rutenberg, who I really like, I have to say, he's definitely more leftist and definitely thinks journalists should be covering Trump in a way you and I don't think is appropriate, but he's a good guy. So he goes over there on the daily and he speaks with a reporter about what happened, Michael Barbaro, between NBC and Ronna McDaniel. And they're trying to do a sincere look at why it imploded and became such a huge controversy. And their musings on the position that modern day media is in, I found

so entertaining. And I think you will too. So I'm going to kick it off with a rather lengthy clip of that show and get your reaction. Take a listen. How do we capture him, cover him for all of his lies, all the challenges he poses to Democratic norms, yet not alienate some 74, 75 million American voters. You've got tens of millions of Trump supporters seeing what's really basic fact checking. These look like attacks to Trump supporters. Trump, in turn, is calling the press, the reporters are enemies of the people. So it's a terrible dynamic. And when January 6th happens,

it's so obviously out of control. And what the traditional press that follows traditional journalistic rules has to do is make it clear that the claims that Trump is making about a stolen election are just so abjectly false that they don't warrant a single minute of real consideration once the reporting has been done to show how false they are. And I think that American journalism really emerged from that feeling strongly about its own values and its own place in society. But then, you know, there's still tens of millions of Trump voters and they don't feel

so good about the coverage and they don't agree that January 6th was an insurrection. How is NBC? How is CNN? How are any of these TV networks? If they have decided that this is their mission, how are they supposed to speak to people who believe something fundamentally untrue as a core part of their political identity. Nobody wants to be seen as wearing a jersey in our business.

No one wants to be wearing a jersey in our business. But maybe what they really have to accept is that we're just sticking to the true facts. And that may look like we're wearing a jersey, but we're not. And that may at times look like it's lining up more with the Democrats, but we're not. We're going to tell you the truth, even if it means that we're going to lose a big part of the country. We're going to tell you the truth. That's our mission at the New York Times and NBC, even if it means we're going to lose a big part of the deluded country, Ben, that just won't accept what we tell them is, quote, truth. What do you make of it? I mean, it's just so self-righteous. And this is the game that the media have been trying to play for decades at this point is

that they are overtly on the left, but they just identify the truth with their political perspective. And this means that if they're just repeating left wing talking points, then we're all supposed to take that as gospel truth, as real statement of fact. The reality is that there used to be a time when members of the media tried to remove their bias, I think a little bit from their coverage. I think that time ended probably during the Obama administration when the media basically decided they were an adjunct to the Obama White House. And now that's become so obviously clear, especially in places like MSNBC, where you have this revolving door where Jen Psaki, while she is the White House press secretary,

is negotiating for a contract to host a TV show on MSNBC, and she just moves right from one to the other. You see this sort of stuff at MSNBC all the time. Again, it would be better if MSNBC just said, listen, we're a left-wing network. And because we're a left-wing network, we don't feel like employing Ronna McDaniel. That'd be perfectly within their purview. The issue for MSNBC and Ronna McDaniel is that they keep suggesting that they're actually a news network. NBC News keeps suggesting they're a news network. Well, if you're a news network, then the proper answer to the Ronna McDaniel supposed conundrum is you hire her, you have her on, and then you have somebody on who rebuts what she's saying if you think what she's saying is false. But they don't even want to expose that

to the light of day because the idea, I guess, is that if she makes the argument and then you rebut the argument, that her argument is so fully untrue that it can't even have a hearing. Well, that's weird because Ronna McDaniel, from what I've seen, actually does not suggest that the election was stolen in the way that Donald Trump does. I believe that her position on the election is that the election was rigged by changing all the rules, that the election was rigged by not allowing Hunter Biden's laptop to be covered by the media and all the rest of this. But I'm not aware that Ron McDaniel has actually taken right now, as of now, the position that there were actual voter fraud questions so

significant that Donald Trump won the election except for voter fraud. She may have taken that position in the past. That's not something that she's taking right now. So it's sort of a weird position is unfair, but not stolen. Keep going. Right, exactly. So so because of that, they have to come up with some excuse why she is a difference in kind and they can't. And so what they're coming back to is this idea that they are the sole repositories of fact. And you can hear it even in that clip where they're moving from. We covered January 6th. We covered the elections and election denialism, and then anybody who says it's not an insurrection is somehow in the land of fiction. Well, wait a second. I don't actually believe that January 6th was an insurrection because an insurrection typically involves, say, the military involving itself in a coup at the behest of one

of the members of the government. It doesn't involve a bunch of people who are either committing criminal trespass or rioting in the Capitol building immediately thrown out within two hours, and then the country goes on. That's just called a riot. Does that mean that I am now purveying something that's not a fact? It seems to me that my characterization of that, which is similar, I think, to yours and to a lot of people's, is much more accurate than simply labeling something an insurrection the way the media does. That's a political analysis point. But you can see the conflation of the label insurrection with fact that kind of speaks to the whole thing.

Yeah. And, you know, that Trump has been charged with insurrection. That's not one of their favorite claims on the January 6th defendants. But they they say it like it's fact. And if you if you disagree, it was an insurrection. How are we going to reach these people? I mean, we want viewers. That's what they were lamenting in the larger piece that like maybe MSNBC doesn't need more right leaning or independent viewers.

But big NBC, they they want them to how you supposed to speak to these people? I mean, like, what are you supposed to do? And especially when they see fact checking of Trump as an attack, fact checking him looks like an attack. Ironically, as they're having this conversation, Kristen Welker, the anchor of Meet the Press, is over there doing a little of this so-called, quote, fact checking. Now, this soundbite I'm about to play is making the rounds in the mainstream media today because the left is outraged about the way she describes Trump's attacks on the daughter of Judge Merchant, who's overseeing the Stormy Daniels hush money case, who's a political operative. She's a progressive. She's connected with this far left organization that got Adam Schiff and others elected. And her personal

Twitter account has definitely taken shots at Trump, though her team is now claiming she deactivated that. And that's now somebody else. But you can see why Trump might have looked at the account and said, it's her. It's got a picture of him behind bars. Anyway, that's the background of the clip you're about to hear. Kristen Welker kind of brushes past it and the left wanted her to make a bigger deal out of it. I want you to forget that piece of it for right now. Take a listen at the very beginning to Kristen Welker's so-called fact check that I guess we lunatics see as an attack or won't just fucking accept because Kristen Welker says it's so. Take a listen.

Meanwhile, this week, the former president stepped up his attacks on the judge and his family in the New York hush money case after that judge imposed a partial gag order on Mr. Trump less than three weeks from the April 15th start date in that trial. And now Trump is asserting that none of the trials should, quote, take place during my campaign, falsely calling the criminal proceedings election interference. It is yet another reminder that we are covering this election against the backdrop of a deeply divided nation. Got it.

To call the criminal trials election interference is false. Right. I mean, it is 100% election interference. When Donald Trump says the hush money allegations were brought about the 2016 election, and I checked the calendar and it is currently 2024, I mean, that's a real hot take there from Kristen Welker. But but you're exactly right. I mean, the basic way that the media now report these things is that our opinions are the facts.

And if you don't like our facts, that's because you actually are a fact rejecter. And that's a really stupid way to cover this sort of stuff. Again, it really is not that difficult, actually, to cover President Trump in all of his varieties. He says things that are not true a lot. And I'm talking to somebody who co-hosted an event for him a couple of weeks ago. He obviously says things that I disagree with a lot. But I think the other half of this is that the same media that will declare that it's an absolute 100% fact that the hush money trial is not election interference against Trump in a state where the prosecutors have vowed to go against Trump for years, the same people who will say that will not cover a single lie that Joe Biden ever tells.

They put Daniel Dale, the fact checker at CNN, in witness protection for several years there when Joe Biden was first president because he had to disappear from the scene. Then Donald Trump gets nominated and suddenly Daniel Dale's back on your TV every night doing his long litany of misstatements or lies from President Trump. And we can see the double standard. Be one thing if you were saying we're going to call out all the lies. If you did that, then I'd be like, OK, I get it. Maybe I maybe I'm mischaracterizing something here or there, but at least you're attempting. They're not even attempting anything. Joe Biden, according to these folks, is an absolute truth

teller who requires no fact check when he does say something wrong. It's just a mistake. When Donald Trump says something wrong, it's because he's a malicious attempt. He's a malicious coup d'etat destroyer of democracy. It's amazing to listen to her. I mean, it wouldn't take much for someone to say, hold on, that's opinion. That's not fact. You don't you don't say which is not which is false, that it's election interference. That's that is a very hotly debated topic amongst the electorate right now. And virtually every Republican and most independents would say it is election interference, especially that bullshit claim she's talking about the horse Stormy Daniels hush money one. So for her to just slide it in there, like it's, it's just not okay. And then at the same time have this discussion over on the New

York times about how, I don't know why these morons don't just accept fact-checking for the truth offering that it is, you know, we're just going to have to, I guess, try to find a way of speaking to these people or not. That's the real big debate underscores a so much that's wrong with media today. Okay. Much more news to get to, but I want, I do want to switch to the piece that you're doing now, The Divided States of Biden. It's a new docuseries over the dailywire.com. Episode two focuses on fentanyl. I don't know a person who hasn't been affected by this. I don't know a person who has not. It's either your friend's college kid or your friend's friend's college kid or something you just read in yesterday's paper that you found deeply alarming and had to warn your kids about, but it's come up in most everybody's life. Fentanyl, it's everywhere. It's the new opioid crisis, except it's proving to be even more deadly and yet not

necessarily getting the five alarm fire universally among Americans around it. That's a opioids did once we realized what they were doing to us. So you've taken a deep dive on fentanyl. Can you just highlight the problem for us? Because I know you visited various towns and you actually got your arms around the problem. So just highlight the problem. Okay. So the problem of fentanyl poisoning, and I'm calling it poisoning here for a reason, and that is a huge number of people who die of fentanyl overdose are not overdosing in the way that you would think of an opioid overdose, where somebody is doing heroin and they actually inject too much heroin and then they die. A lot of people who are dying of fentanyl poisoning don't even realize they're ingesting fentanyl.

They think that they're taking a Vicodin or they think that they are taking a Xanax or they think they're taking an Adderall, and it turns out that it's laced with a grain of fentanyl. Fentanyl is incredibly cheap. It's incredibly easy to produce. A huge amount of it is moving across our southern border, thanks to the Mexican drug cartels, which are getting the precursor materials from the Chinese government, which is shipping it over to Mexico. It is then being created in a lab in Mexico by Chinese nationals, who are then putting it into Chinese-made pill presses.

They are then distributing that to the drug cartels, who are taking it across the border and selling it in mass quantities. And it's killing over 100,000 Americans a year. It's now the number one cause of death for Americans between the ages of about 18 and 40, more so than gun wound, more so than car accident. That's how prevalent it is. And again, it's pretty much everywhere. It's very difficult to get your arms around it specifically because there are so many different versions of fentanyl that are now coming across the border. The easiest thing that needs to be done, obviously, is to close the border. And that's the exact same thing that the Biden administration won't do. So these two issues are deeply intertwined. With an open border,

it is literally impossible to stop the fentanyl epidemic from entering the country. And there's a lot of focus in the United States on caring for people who actually become addicted to fentanyl. But the reality is once you're addicted to fentanyl, it's almost impossible to get off of fentanyl. The amount of the number of people who are fentanyl addicts who end up getting off of fentanyl, my last, the last stats I saw were below 2%, which means there's only one way to stop this, which is to stop it right at the source. And that means you actually have to shut the border. Joe Biden's border policy is dramatically designed to do everything but stop it at the border. He's leaving the border wide open.

I mean, we're talking about like 25 mile stretch. I've driven them 25 mile stretches. The most heavily trafficked parts of the Arizona border by drug traffickers, completely wide open, totally in the control of the Mexican drug cartels. So why? Why are they lacing drugs like Adderall and Vicodin with fentanyl? I mean, the answer for that usually is if you can get someone to take a little bit, it's incredibly addictive. It's 50 to 100 times more powerful than a typical opioid or heroin.

And so that means that if you can get somebody to take a little bit of fentanyl, apparently the high is amazing, but it doesn't last all that long. And now you've got them hooked for life. So that's an acceptable loss for drug dealers. If you can get a teenager hooked on fentanyl, but it means another teenager dies, well, for these drug dealers, that's fine. They're totally okay with that. Some states are doing what they call drug-induced homicide prosecutions, which is something every state should take up. They're basically saying, if you're a drug dealer and you deal somebody fentanyl and the person dies of the fentanyl, we are going to charge you with

murder, which is exactly what they should do, as opposed to treating it as kind of a normal drug offense. The sort of weird, hard division that we've made in American criminal law between drug distribution and homicide, that needs to be obliterated when you're talking about a drug as deadly as fentanyl that is being put in, again, things like marijuana. People will be smoking a joint and they'll get fentanyl. And if they have the fentanyl in the marijuana, they can die from that. You offer the following stat in the piece. In 2022, fentanyl overdose deaths doubled from 2019. I mean, this is becoming more deadly by the minute. And kids who are little right now are aging up into the age where they may make a stupid decision on a college campus or, you know, via, you can get these drugs over the internet so easy via Snapchat.

You order a drug, it shows up at your house and you're dead. Your kid is dead over these dumb ass decisions that kids used to make and they weren't smart, but they, they weren't deadly. And it's happening more and more. It's happening across income strata. I mean, the poor, the rich, all of them are dying from this thing. What like are there certain areas that are more problematic than others? Because I know you went to, for example, Camden, New Jersey, which jumped out of me because that's one of those community policing towns that just five years ago they wanted credit for being super safe thanks to their community policing as opposed to just crackdown policing. Yeah, I mean, what they actually did in Camden is they lied about it. They actually went to the county policing.

They said, we got rid of our city police, and they just ingested it into the county police. And then now they're actually starting to try to use a little bit of broken windows theory, I think, to try and gain control of the city. But the city is completely out of control. I mean, Camden is a crime center. They always come back. That always fails, and they come back. That's right. And so what you see there in Camden is total open-air drug use.

You see that in Kensington, obviously. There have been a lot of filming done in Kensington, which is an area of Philadelphia. You make a turn off what looks like a normal street in Kensington onto Kensington Avenue, and suddenly you're going like two straight miles of people who are walking around like zombies, openly shooting up on the streets. People who in many cases have open wounds, people who are missing limbs specifically because in order to keep the high of fentanyl, people have started mixing it with an animal tranquilizer that's known on the street as Trank. And that actually tends to rot your flesh. And so you see like entire city blocks of people like Phil, It looks like a zombie apocalypse. It's totally crazy. It's totally insane. Hold that thought because we have some of that from the docuseries. Again, this is the divided states of Biden. You can find it on the dailywire.com.

And here's video of Kensington, Pennsylvania, along the lines of what Ben described. Holy crap. I've never seen anything like this in my life. Whole block. There's blocks of people. Shooting in the knee. Holy crap. Jesus, help him. It's just miles of drug addicts.

People who are missing limbs and toes and fingers. You're seeing people who are bent over at the waist because the drugs have done such horrific things to their body, they're not capable of standing up straight. It looks like something out of The Walking Dead. They're shooting up right now. She's shooting right into her foot. And this guy's scratching it. We're undoubtedly massive flesh wounds from Frank. Oh, my God. It's hard to believe that's the United States of America. It is. And again, all of this is, in fact, if not preventable, mitigatable. All you have to do is

close the southern border. Joe Biden's border policy has been to basically allow the drug cartels to flood one area of the border with illegal immigrants. Joe Biden sends the entire border patrol over to process that group of illegal immigrants, leaving the rest of the border completely unoccupied. And at that point, the Mexican drug cartels will smuggle a few guys over with backpacks filled with fentanyl. Again, this stuff is so powerful. It's so easy to transport. You're talking about tons, literally tons of fentanyl entering the United States every year. And it takes a grain, two grains of fentanyl to kill somebody. So what what is the solution? You mentioned cracking down on the criminal law on those who would lace a drug with fentanyl without

disclosing that. And so, I mean, that's really going after the cartels. And I guess those who would lace a drug with fentanyl without disclosing that. And so, I mean, that's really going after the cartels. And I guess those who pimp their poison here domestically, shutting down the border so that this isn't as easy, though that's, of course, easier said than done, no matter who's president, to actually shut it down has proven very problematic for, you know, Republicans and Democrats alike. So what do we, is it awareness? You know, is it like pressure tactics on China? Yes. I mean, there is going

to be more of that. We actually, believe it or not, we actually may be back in terms of drug use to the days of just say no, because there was this long period in American history, mainly when I was growing up and really until, until now where I was like, okay, well, it's just a joint. What's the big deal. And the answer right now is that it used to be that if you if you had a joint, I'm not a big advocate of marijuana. First of all, marijuana now is significantly more powerful than even when I was a kid. But the the chances that you may die from taking any street drug just because you don't know the source are so much higher than they have ever been any time in American history

that the idea of getting kids away from drugs totally is now a thing. It's going to have to be abstinence from drugs. And then of course, there's the international stuff you can do. We need to be putting significant financial and economic pressure on China, which is the source of the precursor materials. We put pressure on them not to actually directly manufacture the fentanyl and just send it directly to the Mexican drug cartels. And so they stopped doing that.

Instead, they basically took the ingredients and started sending all the ingredients separately to Mexico, where it's then processed in Mexico and then imported into the United States. We need to be taking serious economic measures against China to force Xi to crack down on the fentanyl creation in China. It really is like playing Russian roulette now. You try a pill, you're really taking your life in your hands. It is not the same as having a beer or, you know, the 1995 version of trying a joint. It is, it's just not your kids need to know. And you need to know, again, it's called the divided States of Biden. Uh, and you can check it out at the daily wire.com or let's, let's talk about some other news. As we went to the weekend, Joe Biden was having this massive fundraiser. He raised, he says, $26 million with former presidents Obama and Clinton. I really was struck by it. I mean,

I said to the team before we did the show on Thursday, really, you can see the split screen here of these three former presidents in New York celebrating themselves, raising money and Trump going to the wake of this fallen police officer who was shot by this repeat offender who was out with no bail and should have been behind bars. And it got even worse as the day went on because we saw a huge hole in Biden's schedule and said, you know, he could go. He could get out to Long Island in the day and still go to his fundraiser at night. And we didn't know what he was doing. And then it became clear he was doing the podcast with these three celebrity comedians, Will Arnett, Sean Hayes and Jason Bateman. And they sat down with these guys. This is what Joe

Biden did instead of going to the wake. And President Trump went to the wake. And I realize everything that the politicians do these days is political. You know, Trump surely did not go there purely out of the goodness of his heart. He's not a dumb politician. He understood. But you know what? He still gets credit for it because he's trying to show his support for law enforcement. He's trying to send a message that this is a priority for me. And Joe Biden sent a very different message.

In the meantime, every day what we get, Ben, is a message that Trump is the evil one. Trump said the not nice thing about the judge's daughter. Trump is somehow evil one. Trump said the not nice thing about the judge's daughter. Trump is somehow uniquely bad. And Joe Biden is somehow uniquely good or as special counsel Robert Herr put it, well-meaning. Right. That's his critic. That's as much as his official critical say is well-meaning, but elderly. And I just couldn't get over what a missed opportunity it was for the president and how as a mother, I can't help but feel I'm going to hold it against him. Yeah. I mean, I'm not sure how many, I can't help but feel I'm going to hold it against him. Yeah, I mean, I'm not sure how many times Biden can make this mistake. I mean, we saw this with East Palestine, Ohio as well, where Biden wouldn't go out there to the scene of the train spill. But Trump would. Trump went there and he was distributing resources and getting people Big

Macs. Trump does have a very good political instinct for these sorts of situations. And as you say, politicians are politicians. He's not going to every funeral in the country, but he does understand that symbolism matters. And when you go and you show sympathy for a fallen police officer and you say the crime needs to be brought under control, and meanwhile, Joe Biden is parting it up with celebrities, that is not a good look. And it's very reminiscent of 2016 when Hillary Clinton was so assured of her own victory that she was doing her DNC videos of Elizabeth Banks singing fight song. Meanwhile, Donald Trump was running around talking to like actual normal Americans, not at Radio City Music Hall. These are bad split screens for Joe Biden. By the way, I think it was a bad split screen for Joe Biden to just be on stage with the former two presidents

who are Democrats because he is older than both of them. Bill Clinton left office when I was 17 years old and Bill Clinton is still younger than was 17 years old. And Bill Clinton is still younger than Joe Biden is today. Barack Obama looks like he is still breathing and alive on that stage. Joe Biden looks like he's stumbling around, doesn't know what the hell he's doing. It was really bad look for him. And again, I don't know who Biden thinks he's appealing to. My guess is that the campaign knows this, which is why they didn't actually just release a lot of tape from this sort of star-studded celebrity event. But they need to get money from a bunch of New Yorkers,

and so they have this Stephen Colbert on stage interviewing these three guys. That's not a good look for Biden. Biden is bleeding support, but he's not bleeding support, by the way, everyone's talking about he's bleeding support from the progressive left. That's why he's going to lose.

The reason if he loses, he is going to lose, is because he is bleeding support from blue-collar white voters. That is actually where he outperformed in 2020, vis-a-vis Trump. Trump did better in cities in 2020 than he did in 2016. He didn't do quite as well among suburban voters and rural voters actually in some areas. Joe Biden did better than expected in those areas, but those are precisely the areas where Joe Biden is absolutely bleeding, which is why he's trailing anywhere from three to six points in Michigan. If Joe Biden loses Michigan, this election is over.

He is he is in serious, serious trouble. And it's not going to help him hanging around with glitzy celebrities, having Lizzo sing for him. While Donald Trump is out there visiting with with the families of slain cops. Yeah. And here was Trump discussing what he saw as Biden's reluctance to go on Fox and Friends on Thursday. So I think that politically he can't support the police. I think he's also making a mistake. But I think politically his base won't let him support the police. And I support the police, I would say, at the highest level of any president by far, maybe double or triple. And they knew that. That's why when I walked into that funeral parlor,

it was like love. They didn't even call the family. They could have called. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to know. Even a call would be perhaps, I'm not sure they'd take his call, right? I'm really not sure they'd take his call. That's right. All he had to do was call. I mean, they actually did let New York Governor Kathy Hochul go, New York City Mayor Eric Adams go. The family said it's fine. These are Democrats. They didn't they didn't try to make it political. The family didn't. If president if the sitting president, Joe Biden, never mind the other two who were with him, Obama and Clinton, said we'd like to pay our respects to Officer Diller. You don't think the family would have said, you know, yes, it would be an honor. They're not they're not even blaming the mayor

for the policies, although they are, but they allowed him to speak. They certainly wouldn't blame the president. So it was just he didn't want to be there, Ben. He wanted to be with Jason Bateman. That's the bottom line. That's why I don't buy it. It's like it's the same guy who checked his watch when the bodies came back to Dover after Afghanistan and it will let the damn White House dogs bite two dozen Secret Service agents with really serious wounds and didn't give a shit, enabled his drug addled son to go do business for him so he could line his own pockets throughout his post vice presidency and possibly during. Same guy. You don't you don't get to hear those facts on NBC, the fact checker of us all. Yeah, the big lie about Joe Biden is that he's a deeply empathetic

person. I think that's actually fallen away pretty dramatically for the American public. If you look at his polling stats, when he first took office, he was in the mid 50s. He's a pretty popular guy when he first took office. And then it quickly became apparent that this is a person who really cares much more about himself than pretty much anyone else. And that became mostly apparent during the Afghanistan pullout, when he obviously cared nothing about the Afghan allies who were being left there to be murdered by the Taliban or American troops who'd been blown up. He saw his members of his administration going around and talking about what a wonderful pullout it was and how basically no Americans died, despite the fact that 13 American service people

were killed in the line of duty by terrorists because of the failure of that pullout. This is Joe Biden. I mean, this is the same guy who every single time he is talking with any family member of a person who died, he starts dragging out the story about Bo and he'll do it with service members. He'll be talking about a service member who was killed in the line of duty. I was talking with the family and he'll talk about how his son was killed in the line of duty, which isn't even true. This kind of idea that Joe Biden is an empathetic elderly gentleman, I don't think a huge number of Americans buy that outside of democratic bases. And that's a real problem for him. Because if the race was supposed to be in 2020 between nice old man Joe Biden and crazy

nut job Donald Trump, who's mean and only cares about himself. Well, that's not the race in 2024. In 2024, it's whatever you think of Trump versus Joe Biden, a not particularly empathetic, deeply angry, somewhat addled old man who has been really bad on policy. That is not a good race for Joe Biden. I've said for years that when it comes to presidential races, it really is about who the race is referendum on. If the referendum is if the race is referendum on you, you're going to lose. In 2016, it was actually Hillary, not Trump. In 2020, it was Trump, not Biden. In 2024, it seems pretty clear, actually, that this is going to be a referendum on Biden, not Trump. Hmm. I really think Trump just needs to stay out of the spotlight. You know, not I'm not talking

about Officer Diller's wake, but his numbers are starting to tighten a bit. We're going to get to that in our next segment. But don't you think, Ben, the smartest move for Trump is to just not say too much? You know, that the people who can't stand Trump are suburban women. They can't stand him. And being reminded of his bombast and his natural personality and his willingness to pick fights may fire up the base, but it totally alienates the group he really needs to get out and vote for him. Well, actually, what he really needs to do is get a bunch of Democrats not to vote for either. Right. And the only way to do that is to stay out of the limelight. The turnout in this election cycle is going to be way lower than it was in 2020 because everybody voted by mail six months in advance of the election in 2020. Usually in every presidential election, you add somewhere between two and four

million new voters to the voter rolls in terms of how many people vote in a presidential. Between 2016 and 2020, that number jumped by over 20 million. That is not going to be duplicated. This time you're going to get way lower voter turnout, particularly in a lot of areas where Joe Biden needs the voter turnout. Joe Biden is counting on his voter turnout to be higher because Trump gets people to the polls on the Democratic side of the aisle. But here's the thing. Trump doesn't need to do anything to get people like me to vote for him. I'm going to vote for him. My family is going to vote for him. And I think everybody that I know is probably going to vote for Trump. But there's a group of people who will not vote for Joe Biden because they actually don't care all that much about Joe Biden. They don't like him

very much who might show up to vote if, again, this turns into a referendum on Trump. So ironically, what Trump needs to do is run Joe Biden's 2020 campaign. He needs to go to a basement and do nothing for like seven months and he'll be president again. Yep. And even with the criminal trials, just he doesn't actually have to fan it. The media will do their part and the right wing media will cover the other side. And Trump doesn't have to put himself in the middle of each and every one of those news stories. And yet, and yet that doesn't sound like President Trump to be down in the basement. Okay. I'm going to take a quick break and then I want to talk to you about your fundraiser for Trump, because I think that's very interesting. More

with Ben Shapiro right after this quick break. What's the theme this year? This is something close to your heart. It is. You know, I've been a teacher for over 30 years, so this is education. What are some of your favorite memories, Mr. President? Well, my favorite memories are a little girl who's having trouble with her eggs. She looked at me, she's about three years old, and said, can you help me with the put in it? I gave her a push. That's my favorite. What is so special about this egg roll? Well, what's so special is this is the people's house. And I expect over 40,000 people to be here.

The largest ever. Look, I think we're going to find out that what happened is a consequence of the crisis we had in health. It's going to have a lasting effect. And we just got to get people to move again. We're ready. I mean, I think the country is ready to come together in a way that I've never, I mean that sincerely. What are your favorite memories about this place? Our kids jumping in bed with us, our grandkids when they're down here, just sneaking up and jumping in bed with us. That's my favorite memory.

Oh boy. That was President Biden today on NBC ahead of the annual Easter egg roll at the White House. Was I the only one who cringed when he was like, my favorite memory is of that little girl. What? Oh, God, what? And it landed with the story. Will you help me, Mr. White? Is it OK? Whatever. Ben Shapiro's back with me now. They're airing the divided states of Biden over at thedailywire.com. Right now you can sign up to be entertained and learn something about our country. So I guess that didn't persuade you, Ben Shapiro, because as I understand it, you are voting for Donald Trump.

Not only that, but you went from being, I mean, I think it's fair to say a Ron DeSantis supporter, promoter during the primary process to a full-on Trump supporter now. That was something, I mean, those of us who listen to you know you were saying you would do that all along. You were saying, I'd rather have DeSantis, but I'll support Donald Trump if he wins it. So it shouldn't come as a surprise, but it has come as a surprise to some. Explain that. Yeah, I'm not sure, again, as you say, why it's surprising that I voted for Donald Trump in 2020. The Republican primaries were over effectively after Iowa. And once President Trump had locked up the nomination, it's time to get on the bus because it's either Trump or it's Biden, and there are no other choices that are available.

And so Donald Trump was a much better president than Joe Biden. It is that simple to me. Again, I've been very open in my criticisms of President Trump on character, on policy, and some of the things that he says. Bottom line is that from 2017 to 2019, he was an excellent president. The first three years of his presidency were great. And then the fourth year was blemished by obviously COVID and then the George Floyd riots. So if I have a choice between 2019 and 2024, when the world is on fire, when Joe Biden is not in control of our border, when Joe Biden has facilitated the worst inflationary economy of the last 40 years, when Joe Biden has led to

massive conflict in the Middle East, massive conflict in the middle of the European continent. I'm not sure why that's such a difficult choice. And when I decided to co-host the fundraiser for President Trump, obviously, one of the ideas there was not just that I was giving my own money to the Trump campaign, but it was also, I think, a sign to a lot of maybe hesitant Republicans that, guys, the primaries are now over. And whatever issues you have with Donald Trump that may have arisen from the primaries, and again, I've said multiple times on the show that if Ron DeSantis had been in when the primaries happened in Florida, I would have voted for him. I think he's the best governor in the country, and I think he would have made the best president, but he wasn't the guy.

And so because he's not the guy, Donald Trump is the guy. And that means that, again, there's only two guys on the ballot who really have a shot of being president of the United States. And Donald Trump is the one that I'm supporting, obviously. What do you make of, you know, this weird feeling and messaging by some on the online right that it's a no. Like if you weren't in support of Trump during the primary process, you're some sort of a charlatan if you're a Johnny come lately to the Trump train in the general. I mean, frankly, I think that's a dumb political position. I mean, you're going to need as many supporters and voters as you can get if you want Donald Trump to become president again. So this sort of like if you weren't with him all the way, if you weren't

wearing the red hat from day one when he came down the escalator in 2015, then we're angry at you. I haven't received too much of that. But if there is some of that, I would say that's not very politically astute. Donald Trump doesn't treat anybody that way. I'll tell you that. I mean, when I had the event with Trump, I mean, we had a conversation about it. And he literally said, you know, he said, Ben Shapiro, Ben Shapiro, you're a big Ron DeSantis supporter, big DeSantis supporter. But now you're going to love us even more. I think you're going to love us even more. We're not going to hold that against you. Donald Trump doesn't feel that way. I'm not sure why you would. Okay. So you, there were no fences to mend, but in any event, the fence is secure. Unlike that

at our Southern border. I've got to ask you about the recent departure of Candace Owens. I know it's a subject that you probably don't want to discuss, but I would be remiss if I didn't at least go there. She left. It made tons of news. The right loves to eat its own. So they loved this. You know, either Ben's bad or Candace is bad, but somebody's bad and we love it. It's like the right likes to eat the left and they love to eat their own. They have absolutely no instinct for like self-preservation over on the right or like keeping their own coalition together. It's kind of interesting to watch. But I'm sure that whole thing was rather unpleasant. It's now spun into a debate about whether the Daily Wire is pro free speech. The accusation is you are until it comes to Israel. How do you respond? I mean, what I will say is that we have a wide variety of positions

on Israel right now inside the Daily Wire. Matt Walsh obviously is another one of the hosts at The Daily Wire. He and I wildly disagree about what America's Israel policy should be. Matt is much more isolationist. He basically believes the United States has no real interests in the Middle East, and thus the United States should not be providing material support to anyone, including the state of Israel. Matt, obviously, is well within the sort of group of hosts that we have here at The Daily Wire. So clearly, whatever is going on is not about Israel specifically. That's really all I have to say about it. As far as the free speech of it, as I've said before, The Daily Wire is a publisher, not a platform. I would never call for anyone to be ousted from an actual platform, X, U2, even people who are, I think, absolutely horrific human beings. I've never

called for any of them to be asked. In fact, I've called for them to have their accounts restored if they've been banned. That's not the same thing when it comes to publishers. Publishers obviously have to decide what sort of things they wish to pay for the publication of. And when it comes to hosts and publishers parting ways, obviously there'll be a non-meeting of the minds. That's pretty much all I can say on that. This is why I don't go into business with anybody else, Ben. This is why I like to just be on my own little island here. You know what I'm saying? Well, you've done really well on that island. Well, it's good to have partnerships. I love working with The Daily Wire and I've never found you guys anything other than pro-free speech and the defense of it. It

doesn't mean you have to be in business, as you point out, with people, no matter what they say. And I think Candace will do fine on her own. It wasn't a good match. I, for one, applaud the separation for a number of reasons. Okay. But moving on, that's Candace. You mentioned Lizzo a moment ago, and I would, I would really like to talk about her. She had such a good time with Joe Biden. She quit music. She, she had such a delightful time spending time with Joe Biden, raising money for him that she's bailed from music altogether. I don't know if we have a soundbite from her. Uh, here's a bit of her performance. Okay. This is like maybe her last performance ever in it six. Well, if you didn't like that, you're not alone, because apparently she got trolled after the performance and has announced online she quits.

All she wanted to do was make people happy, Ben, and she's sick and tired of being trolled. It feels like the world doesn't want her. So she's out. Do we believe this? No, not for not for five seconds. I mean, I assume that at some point she's going to want to make money again. And she does have a lot of fans. I mean, to pretend that she's not a very popular artist is really silly. So if she feels that the trollery is too much for her, so much so that she has to

quit, I would suggest that that's cutting off her nose to spite her face, obviously. But yeah, celebrities being head cases is nothing new. You know, but to me, it's like, okay, so this is what she stated. All I want is to make music and make people happy and help the world be a little better about than how I found it. But I'm starting to feel like the world doesn't want me in it. I'm constantly up against lies being told about me for clout and views being the butt of every joke of the joke every single time because how I look, my character being picked apart by people who don't know me and disrespecting my name. I didn't sign up for this shit. I quit. So she has been accused in multiple lawsuits by dancers

and people around her of being an abusive bully. And that'll play out in the court system as it will for anybody who gets sued. But to me, this is like, okay, I'm starting to feel like the world doesn't want me. Why? Because you get trolled. Have you ever been trolled, Ben? I don't know if you've ever been trolled by anybody. Has anybody ever? No, no, never. Never in history. No. I mean, Ben Shapiro's been trolled with like constant death threats and videos of people pretending to really hurt him. I've seen them. And frankly, so have I. I've been trolled by the president of the United States. It happens kind of often, actually, to this day. You have to put on your big girl pants and take it like a man or a woman. So I really have to this day, you have to put on your big girl pants and take it like a man

or a woman. So I really have to tell you, I have almost no patience for this kind of bitching and moaning from this woman who probably has well over a hundred million dollars at this point. Why? Because the vast majority of Americans freaking love her, but because some people don't and some people are petty, she wants us to feel sorry for her. Well, I don't. There's also this routine that happens all the time now, which is you step in the arena and you say something provocative and then you get blowback for saying the provocative thing. And then you're a victim because you received blowback for saying the provocative thing. And you and I say provocative things fairly often and people get angry at us. And that's just the nature of the business. I mean, Lizzo took the position when she first kind of burst onto the scene that beauty is the same in all forms and that there was nothing

particularly unhealthy about being extremely overweight, for example. And so a lot of people were like, well, that's not true. In fact, as sort of a role model, what you would try to encourage young girls to do is to be healthy. And it turns out that being 100 pounds overweight is not particularly healthy. And she decided that she was going to make that an issue. People didn't agree with her. And then she got very upset with them because people are trolling online. Yes, people are trolling online. Yes, the world would be a nicer place if there weren't as much trolling online. Is that a reason for people to have this sort of, I am a victim style meltdown? Not really. I mean, has it ever occurred to you, Megan, that you were going to literally quit your entire industry because people were

making fun of you and memeing you online? I that'd be, that'd be, I think, a strange take for you. I mean, I would have been out long ago, long ago. And then the other thing is like, you're at a presidential fundraiser. What do you think is going to happen if you, there are a couple of years back, I think it was, um, Ashley Judd showed up to cheer for the Tennessee. It was, I don't know if you call the volunteers, if the, if the basketball team is called the Vols, but she was cheering for her team. She's from Tennessee. And she was like, the amount of vitriol I got online after posting a photo of myself. Yes, that's sports. It, people are divided. You're in the middle of the game and you're rooting for one team and people are rooting

for the other. That's effectively what Lizzo did, But because she's Lizzo, we're not supposed to criticize her. You see these Hollywood celebrities, they want their cake to eat it, too, as well. Right. Like I get to put my big toe into politics, but you don't get to criticize me for doing it. You know, that's also the nature of online. And then this kind of ridiculous thing where people pretend that the online world doesn't exist, but then it really, really matters an awful, awful lot. Let's be real about this. I mean, that's what Twitter is. Twitter is people dunking on each other all day long and being as mean to each other as humanly possible in ways they wouldn't in normal conversation.

If Lizzo wants to have a better life, what she should do is log off and go touch some grass or something. But apparently, that's not something that she wants. By the way, I advise everyone to do this. Everyone should take X. Listen, I love Elon. I think X is a great source of a lot of information. Also, you should probably look at X a lot less often, and your life will be significantly better for it.

And this, I think, is true for pretty much everything up to and including Lizzo. Yeah, I know. I always get concerned when I see people who I really like having posted 200 posts over the weekend. It's like, wait, what are you doing? And the weekend, especially, is the time you should be with your family and being outside, not being on X all day. Okay. Let's talk about Megan Rapinoe before you go, because she's decided that it was time to shame a U.S. women's soccer star, Corbin Albert. Okay. Corbin Albert made

the mistake, Ben, of liking some posts that have been described as anti-LGBTQ. They don't seem anti-LGBTQ at all to me. They seem to be sort of promoting the idea that there might be some unfairness with men playing in women's sports. And Megan Rapinoe decided to respond by saying online for people who want to hide behind the phrase, my beliefs, I would just ask one question. Are you making any type of space safer, more inclusive, more whole, any semblance of better, uh, but, or bringing the best out in anyone she wrote? Because if you aren't, all you believe in is hate. And kids are literally killing themselves because of this hate. Wake the F up.

And now Corbin Albert has apologized for liking and sharing the quote, offensive, insensitive, and hurtful post. She was immature. She was disrespectful. And she's really disappointed in herself. Everyone should feel safe and respected everywhere and on all playing

fields. Oh, just vomit. Just bags of vomit. I mean, when Megan Rapinoe said, I love this kind of crap from people like Megan Rapinoe. Everyone should feel safe and respected. And if you disagree with me, I'll murder you. That's legitimately the angle. It's like, oh my gosh, all views, everyone should feel so welcomed and tolerated except for you because you said that. Megan Rapinoe is the worst person. She's just the worst person. And how people don't find her utterly insufferable. Again, the only reason that people pay attention

to Megan Rapinoe is because she was a soccer star in a league, in a female sport that people watch once every four years. And then we all have to pretend that we care about for the other three years, 364 days. And, and like, come on, she, everyone's a victim, including Megan Rapinoe, such a victim that she gets to Lord it over you and destroy your life. If you like the wrong tweet that says something, for example, about biblical values, you do that. And then you must be brought, you must, you must be forced to atone

on bended knee in front of Megan Rapinoe. People are so obnoxious. I know. And when did quote more inclusive become universally good, right? More inclusive in women's sports of men is not a good thing. And guess what? Speaking about safe spaces, it genuinely isn't one. If we become, more inclusive in this way in our sports. So to you, Megan Rapinoe, Ben Shapiro. Thank you, sir. The Divided States of Biden, a great documentary over The Daily Wire. You'll love The Daily Wire in general, not just for that, but for my new Day, and many on the left are touting some new polling showing President Joe Biden is gaining some ground on former President Donald Trump in the critical swing states. But should we believe the headlines?

And are they relevant seven months out? We've been looking at polling long, far longer than these last seven months. So I think they're interesting no matter who's leading. And that brings us to today's guest. Robert Cahaley is the founder and chief pollster for the Trafalgar Group. Robert, great to have you. Welcome back to the show. It is awesome to be here.

And you do such a great show. And so I'm just honored to participate in it. Oh, thank you very much. All right. So you're going to help us make sense of these numbers because last week, last Tuesday, we got the latest round of polling from Morning Consult and Bloomberg. And that round of polling showed things a lot tighter than we thought they were in the swing states, or at least than it had been. It showed that Biden was still trailing Trump overall among all voters in the seven battleground states, likely voters, that is. And that's important. But that he had tightened things. He had tightened things in most of the states. Wisconsin now Biden leading Trump by one.

In February, Biden been trailing Trump by four. Michigan and Pennsylvania now, the two men tied at 45. In February, Trump was up two in Michigan. Trump was up six in Pennsylvania. Nevada now, Trump is now up by two, but he'd been up by six in February. Arizona now Trump ahead by five. But in February, he had been ahead by six. North Carolina now Trump ahead by six. In February, he'd been up by nine. And Georgia was a state that had good news for Trump in that polling where Trump expanded his lead from six to seven points. So this got some Trump supporters a little worried

that, you know, the Democratic machine is now kicking into gear. And if those things keep tightening between now and November, they're feeling uncomfortable. Should they be feeling uncomfortable? Well, you know, the one thing about all these polls is that they are not representative of what's going to happen on election day. They can't even begin to predict that. What they can predict is kind of a snapshot of where the race is. But also, you need to take some perspective of always look at who's doing it and what their agenda is. You know, I always fight this thing, well, you're a Republican, so your polls, lean Republican. All right, well, let's just say you accept that.

So is it not also fair to say that left-leaning universities and media outlets, polls will lean left. What I had been saying earlier was I felt like that they had created a situation where Biden was doing very, very bad as kind of push him out the door. And then as soon as Biden gave the State of the Union and they realized they were stuck with him, I said, you watch all these things are going to improve. And it's on our podcast, which is called Polling Plus, that Matt Towery and I host together. And we talk every week about what's going on. And this is literally something we've been predicting, that they had Trump artificially high trying to move Biden out the door

and that they're going to tighten it all up now. So, you know, you just got to look at the agendas involved and the track records of the people doing the polls. So, I mean, that does matter because especially, you know, I'll take my hat off to the polls like us that put our stuff out there within a couple weeks of the election so that we can be rated by the different services. Now, some of these guys will talk all summer and all fall,

but you just wait. Last few weeks, they'll go dead silent because they don't want to be held accountable for what they've been saying. And so, you know, when it comes to things like Emerson and New York Times, those guys like us stick their neck out there and put those polls in public and are judged on them. And, you know, each year have good years or bad years. But, you know, there's a lot of these. This is the example of one that you probably won't hear a thing from the last three weeks.

That's so interesting. OK, I want to pay attention to that now. You guys did a poll for us, which we appreciate. Thank you very much. Just to take a temperature at the national level between these two men and beyond, because you included some third-party candidates. What'd you find?

Well, what we found is that, kind of what we've been seeing at other places. We had Trump at a three-point lead, and then we have Kennedy, and Kennedy, I think it was just a little over five. Like I said, that poll's about two hours old, so I haven't even had a lot of chance to study it. Okay, I have it in front of me. I have it in front of me. So what it says is, it's showing Trump, you're right. About three points up over Biden. Three and a half, three and a half. Forty three point one to Biden at thirty nine point eight. This is likely voters

RFK at eleven point four, which is just amazing that he's at eleven point four. It's like, well, and I think that has to do with the ban from even participating in the public conversation two years ago, and now he's polling third in this race. Cornell West at 1.7, Jill Stein 0.8, and Undecided 3.1%. Go ahead. Well, he got a big boost of earned media when named a running mate. And so we've seen across the board, among some very credible polls,

Kennedy making those kind of numbers and meeting over 10%. And it literally was a little surprising to me that he did that. But, you know, there was a significant amount of our media that came with that. And so I expected there'll be a bump. I think he may settle back down a little bit, but I think there's definitely a bump based on all that our media. Well, this is why we're going to see an all out assault against RFKJ over the next seven months by the Biden campaign, which I think accurately deduces he's a much bigger threat to Joe Biden than he is to Trump. And they need him to be eliminated. They keep reminding us, well, the Kennedy family doesn't like him. OK. All right.

I mean, I think the independents who are saying I'm not voting Dem are not that persuaded by the Kennedy lore. People, the Democrats need to come to terms with the fact that not everybody remembers the 1960s as well as Joe Biden does. So that is for sure. You know, one of the things, and this is what I've been pointing out for about a year and a half, is the difference between, and now I'm hearing everybody else say the same thing, the difference between 2016 and 2020 was Jill Stein. Jill Stein's margin in every state was larger than Trump's margin of victory. So third party candidates can make a difference. That's amazing. Can you say that again? Say that again.

Jill Stein's margin, the votes that she got in those swing states like Michigan, like Wisconsin, was larger than Trump's margin of victory. And so without Jill Stein, there's no guarantee that that happens that way. So, you know, when it was a two-person race, you have people who are just like, well, I don't like – there's a certain amount of people who say, well, I don't like either one, but hold their nose and vote for Biden. And in 2020, they did that one because he had a reputation of being a little more of a moderate, can work with everybody, Democrat. And that is the way he ran his primary race and that's frankly why he won now he has not

governed that way so a lot of those people who really weren't crazy about he won and even some disaffected Republicans just said well I'll just vote for Biden well now when there's another choice when the people who don't really like trump or biden don't

have to hold their nose and pick one and they can vote for anybody else those numbers come right off biden because they were ending up with biden last time and so it doesn't really matter who it is. Anybody that has any kind of media and name recognition is going to pull from Biden. Add to that that he probably, Kennedy was pulling a little bit from Trump in the beginning, but as soon as he named that running bait, it was almost a signal to Republicans that this is not somebody you can support. So if you're a conservative Republican, who's not crazy about Trump and very wide candidate.

That running mate just convinced you now you can't do that because she is not in the middle. She she is very much on the left. Well, that's, I mean, just to play it out, that's if Trump dies, right? Or if RFKJ dies, if RFKJ dies, right? Like that's when you have to worry about her. You have to worry about him for picking her too, for sure. Why did he pick her?

She's pretty far left. Why would he do that if he's more in the middle? But I do think you're right. I think RFKJ definitely hurts Biden more than he hurts Trump, but he's there as a threat to Trump because if Trump goes too far off the rails in the next seven months, he is an acceptable option to some Republicans who aren't diehard conservatives. Like if you just don't like Trump and you like him more than Biden, but he really pisses you off for whatever reason over the next seven months, you say, I just can't do it. I just can't. I can't vote for the guy.

There's RFKJ, who said all the right things on COVID in the minds of, you know, a lot of the Trump base, who is against the military industrial complex. You know, like this guy, there's a lot of appealing about him. So Trump has to watch it a little because RFKJ is in the race in my in my. Absolutely. Let me ask you about let me ask you about this piece by my old pal Doug Schoen, a Fox News lifelong Democratic operative. Good guy. And Carly Cooperman co-authors it in the Hill. The title is Opinion is a Biden comeback quietly underway? He says, unless you're deeply immersed in politics, you likely missed a major development over the last three weeks. It's dated today, by the way. Since his State of the Union speech, President Joe Biden has seen a marked reversal

of his fortunes. Since Biden addressed the nation in early March, polling shows he's gaining ground. Trump now leads Biden by only one percentage point in the Real Clear Politics polling average. That's Trump's smallest lead since January. And he goes through some of them. In the Quinnipiac poll released last week, Biden led by three points, led, that is, by three points, bringing the total to 12 national polls now showing Biden leading Trump since the State of the Union. Moreover, the balance is not being seen just in national polls, but also battleground states that will determine the winner in Wisconsin. Biden now leads Trump a five point swing in Biden's favor since February.

And he starts to go through those polls from Bloomberg Morning Consult that I just went through the audience. It is really amazing how much air that one poll has got. It's amazing. Oh, the left is salivating. Well, I mean, the thing is, because there's not a lot of state polls going on right now, and so, you know, they throw this out and it's just red meat.

Well, yes, but it's also interesting because Biden's kind of seemed close to dead. And there is like a little sign of life here. I personally am having some difficulty believing that this amazing State of the Union that we did not see is the reason for this. Your explanation is the first one i've heard that makes sense oh i think it's completely artificial um and it was like just like in the let me give you an example in the primaries and this was something matt and i were saying before uh in you know in december they said i like. Our polls and Matt's polls all show that much tighter. And as you might note, we had the number one poll in Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina of the people who polled, you know, the excellent candidates.

And what we saw, we were always tighter than them. And they had these artificial high numbers. And I would say, why are they doing that? Well, they're doing that so on election night they can go, well, Trump may have won, but he certainly is not meeting expectations. And sure enough, that's exactly what they did, except for he did exactly what we thought he would do. I think, you know, it's kind of like in the stock market, like a pump and dump. A lot of this is artificial. So you're saying that, I mean, because when I worked at Fox News, I really trusted our polling outlet.

People thought, oh, it's a Fox poll, people who were on the left. No, no. Fox worked very hard to keep that even. But I always laughed at that, because they were legit. Yes, oh, it's a Fox poll. People who were on the left. But I always laughed at that. They were legit. Yes, to keep it very even. So I never, ever suspected them of weighting the poll unfairly. They they really wanted to get it right. They didn't want to get it right for the Republican. You know, it's like pushed on. You're telling me there's a fair amount of pollsters out there who are more partisan, who actually do put a little thumb on the scale. And it could even be a thumb on the scale in favor of Trump because net net, they know it'll make Trump look bad like he didn't hit expectations or, oh, look, now Biden's closing this, you know, lead that we told you existed, but might not have. Right. And it's less the thumb. It's just how, you know, it's how you do it, how you weigh it. You don't

have to do a lot to kind of move things where you want them if your goal is not to actually represent what you found. And so we do see some of that and it's out there and there's no question it is. And there's some groups that I would never say that. There's groups I feel like Fox and anything errs on the side of being fairer to

the Democrats. And you're right. They never are in the tank for Republicans. Just straight up. But pretty much, they're right down, you know, I feel like that's, they do a good job. New York Times, he did a very good job. Emerson College, I mean, just, I think Emerson College is just the best. I mean, when it comes to all these universities, media polls, that's the one I put the most stock in. They've been the most accurate over the last few years and I think very highly of the work. And they don't mind sticking their neck out and putting something out there for Election Day.

Speaking of Fox News, they just concluded a poll of registered voters and it was conducted March 22 through 25 on the election. It showed in a Biden versus Trump head to head. Trump is up point five. He's up 14 points among independents in a five way race. It showed Trump up point five, five points total. And this one showed him up five points, sorry, up five points, like five, five percentage points over Biden, Trump, um, yeah, Biden is 38. And that's the one Shannon, Shannon Breen was going over Sunday. Yeah. And in the head to head match up Trump with, Biden with 45. But then one of the interesting things about the poll was they got into some other questions like what was the biggest failure? What has been biggest failure of the Biden administration? Top response, immigration and border security by far. 31 percent said that second of a distant second now is inflation in the economy at 17 percent. Then the next question, what has been Biden's biggest accomplishment?

The number one answer was nothing. He's made things worse. Thirty eight percent. That's kind of like that's kind of like Mickey Hagen losing the above. That's not good. That's not a good, but I do think it's interesting now because there was a long time during Biden's presidency where the economy outranked everything. Immigration, especially amongst Democrats was not even two or three. Now it is number one for both parties. But let me ask you a question on that, because what some believe, like my pal Doug Schoen, is that the people not caring as much about the economy as they did is why his poll numbers, Doug Schoen believes, are rebounding Biden's.

First of all. They. I think that is a complete misnomer. What I'll tell you, the reason I believe this is, is first, immigration touches everyone. Whether it's the people coming to big cities and the rising crime, whether it's fentanyl, you know, it just, it touches everyone. There's no community that feels immune from immigration. However, you know, we've been talking about the fact that there seem to be kind of two justices. Well, there's also two economies out there.

You know, if you work for the government or you work for an industry that is now kind of a Biden favorite, you know, whether it's alternative energies, you're doing great. But the working families are going to the grocery store and putting on the credit cards. And that has not changed. And credit card debt is an all-time high. Defaults that are all-time high. Car rates, I mean, car repossessions, all-time high. These are things that tell you where the real economy is. You know, an average person will tell you something is wrong.

Everybody can tell you about a store or restaurant they've been to that can't find anyone to work or how they had to wait an extra hour for an Uber because there's not enough people driving. There is a complete, there's so many people who are not participating in this economy. And, you know, like I said, there's two economies. Those who are in these industries that are funded or those who are getting paid by the government or some kind of government assistance, they feel one way about things and about the government and about the economy. But, you know, average working families feel completely differently.

And if they want to go all the way to this election thinking that everything's fine with the economy, they're going to get a shock. And that explains a lot of working families, a significant amount of Hispanics and African-Americans and young people all fall in to the people who are having trouble either finding work or making ends meet. And that is their bigger problem. Well, that's why, that's what you told me, Robert, but I believe that's why the Biden's messaging, the Biden team's messaging to young people saying, climate change, student loan, quote, forgiveness, which is a lie. And looking at Blacks and Hispanics and saying,

they demonize immigrants or they demonize Black people they're racists you know come with us we love dei that's why none of that's working because all those groups look at my wallet exactly and and and the thing is that is these are all the people who are affected by this economy and this crazy inflation. You know, when you – frankly, it'll break your heart. When you – you know, one of the grocery stores I go to is lots of different people from different backgrounds. And, I mean, just to watch people, you know, a lady put out some cash and say, well, this is all I have.

Can you put the difference on this credit card? And if it doesn't work, can you use this one? I mean, that's sad. And that is the real world right now. And these people are paying like 30% interest on the stupid credit cards. Yep. That's right. Where do you live? Well, I live kind of in two places.

I have a residence in South Carolina, which is where I'm from and grew up. And we also hang forward in Atlanta. So I burn up 85 between the two every week. Okay. My husband and I have an ongoing debate the two every week. Okay. My husband and I have an ongoing debate about the grocery stores, and he's in love with the Acme, the A-C-M-E, the Acme. He loves the Acme. Doug has a love affair with the Acme.

I haven't really found one that I absolutely love. Like Whole Foods is okay for some things, but it's kind of – I know why Doug doesn't like it and why a lot of people don't like it as a bad parking lot where we are anyway, I just wondered, but I'll tell you what the best grocery store I've ever been in my life is Wegmans in upstate New York. It is absolutely beautiful. They have such a wide range of like, they've got the fancy stuff. If you want to do the Whole Foods are they, and they have the more economical stuff. If you're on a tighter budget, presentation beautiful the aisles are wide that's what i really care about i don't like playing games of chicken when watch walking down the aisle um i

want to talk about you know in the south we have publics and with publics is in both the places i live and it it it it feels like what you're traveling away Wegmans. It's, you know, you got a choice. You can buy the Publix or lower brand, or you can buy the most high-end stuff, you know, five different flavors of blueberry cheese. I mean, whatever you want. That's how it should be. That's how it should be. Because while I might want some of the organic fruit from the Whole Foods, generally, I don't

want to be surrounded by the people who shop there. So it's a real conundrum. OK, I got to talk to you about the black. I love that you go. Clearly, clearly, Team Trump thinks that there's some vulnerability for Biden on the back on the black vote. And clearly, Joe Biden sees it, too, because even though they'll say the black vote's never going Republican, and I don't even think Republicans are thinking it's going to go Republican. It's just about eating away at the numbers that normally go down. Joe Biden released this ad he and Kamala Harris called Price targeting black voters just two weeks ago. Watch this at 25. As bad as Trump was, his economy was worse

and black America felt it the most. He cut health insurance while giving tax breaks to the wealthy and big business. He stoked racial violence, attacked voting rights, and if reelected, vowed to be a dictator and, quote, get revenge. He can't go back. As president, I put money in pockets, creating millions of new jobs, and capped the cost of insulin at $35 a month. There's a lot more to do, but we can do it together. All right. So there's Biden trying to appeal to Black voters. And here's Trump doing the same. Here's his version.

Biden's letting Mexican cartels pump drugs and fentanyl into our streets. He's busing rapists and murderers into our communities. And the crooks in Congress are handing out our tax dollars to illegals. Biden promised to help us, but his policies are making things worse. But he doesn't care because he takes our votes for granted. President Trump will protect our daughter's sports teams and stop the sexualization of our children. Trump will declare war on the cartels

and stop the flood of drugs and crime into our communities. President Trump delivered for us before and he'll do it again. To the viewing audience, that was just a picture of Trump because it's a radio ad. So what do you make of it? They're both obviously admitting that the black vote, at least in part, is in play, in particular black men, though the latest polling that we were just talking about shows, let's see, in a head-to-head match, Biden versus Trump. Let's see. Biden has 71% of the black vote, Trump 26, which people need to understand those numbers are like amazing for a Republican to get 26% of the black vote in this polling. And all the other polls show it's this polling. It is impossible for Biden to win.

It is impossible for Biden to win if that conference fails. Oh, that bad. Well, I mean, you know, obviously, you know, the Hispanic vote too. But what you're seeing, I mean, first of all, good for the black community for saying you cannot take us for granted. We've been saying this for the longest time, is that the squeaky wheel gets the oil. And I am so, it is so deserving that the whole idea of a monolith or, you know, what Trump said to the guy, you know, if you don't vote for me, you ain't black. I mean, that's just ridiculous. And that is offensive.

And this whole idea that you need to earn the vote is very important. But, you know, we've been saying for the longest time, everybody keeps talking about, well, what is he going to do about suburban women? What is he going to do about independence? Well, let me make this very clear. If Trump does over 25% for the Black community and over 40% for the Hispanic community,

none of that other stuff matters. The Biden coalition is destroyed And he cannot win Wow Is that possible? Is this a mirage? Well, I mean These are both numbers that have been creeping up

I mean Trump did better with these groups In 2016 Than Republicans used to do He did better even than what he did in 2016 and 2020. And, you know, he's on record to do the best. Again, I mean, you've got to go back to Richard Nixon in 1960 to get anywhere that a Republican

has done better than what Trump is doing in these communities. Why did Richard Nixon do so well with Black voters? Well, it wasn't that he did so well. It's that up until 1960, Black voters tended to be Republican. Martin Luther King was a registered Republican. Martin Luther King was a registered Republican. I mean, frankly, you know, when you study it, Nixon did a little less than what had been happening in the past. You know, the historical things that I read says that the fact

that Kennedy called Martin Luther King when he was in jail and Nixon was vice president and could have really done something to help and didn't really kind of set the tone. And then, you know, after 60, then it started being, once they realized that it was kind of going the other way, then they kind of put it behind gear and, you know, initiated what was called the Southern Strategy. But that was, you know, through those times, it was very much more likely that African-American voters would be voting Republican, that this was kind of a switch that stuck from the 60s on. Man, for 60 years. And yet, here we are with one Republican candidate appealing to them and making the hard play and pointing out the things, the ways in which he believes his policies changed their lives. I got to run, Robert. It's been a pleasure.

Thank you for doing the poll for us. It is always a pleasure. And thanks for coming on. Hope to see you again soon. Thank you. And we look forward to it. Thank you. All the best. Okay. Coming up, our favorite poet, Joseph Massey, who's putting out a new book. And dare I say, it is perfect for either your mom or your dad coming up this Mother's or Father's Day. And I'll get into why I think that. But as I was reading it, I was thinking this is actually a totally beautiful gift and it's an unusual gift. They won't be expecting it, right? It's not a mug. It's not

a picture frame. It's a gift of beauty and thoughtfulness and one that communicates your love, but like your consideration too. Clearly you'd have to put some thought into it. And in doing all of that, you will also support Joseph, which is a mission that's near and dear to my own heart. So he's up next. You're going to love him. It's your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations with the most interesting and important political, legal, and cultural figures today. You can catch The Megyn Kelly Show on Triumph, a SiriusXM channel featuring lots of hosts you may know and probably love. Great people like Dr. Laura, Glenn Beck, Nancy Grace, Dave Ramsey, and yours truly, Megyn Kelly. You can stream The Megyn Kelly Show on SiriusXM at home or anywhere you are, no car required.

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Offer details apply. I want to turn our attention now to some poetry with our favorite poet, Joseph Massey. The woke poetry world tried to cancel Joseph back in 2018. To hear his full story, you can and should listen to him on this show in episode 298. The bottom line is poetry people are mean. They are an angry group. It's amazing. They're nasty. Certainly they were to our friend Joseph. But he came back. He emerged victorious from that attempted cancellation and now publishes the most wonderful poems under his own imprint. He's self-published and he's been doing very well with this. He's not, you know, going to buy a private jet anytime soon, but he's supporting himself and he doesn't need those cretins.

His new book, A Career Retrospective, which I'm very happy about since we weren't really paying that much attention to Joseph before, ironically, he got canceled, is called Decades Selected Poems. And it's out right now. Joseph, welcome back to the show. Thank you, Megan. It's great to be here. OK, so how can everybody get the book? On Amazon. Amazon offers the best deal for self-published authors in terms of royalties. So that's the best place to get it. Okay, get it now.

Decades selected poems. I feel strongly this would be a good gift for a mom or a dad coming, you know, Mother's Day is in May, Father's Day is in June. They have enough time to get it. Because as I said in the tease, your poetry makes me feel something, something other than confused, which is how I feel when I read the poetry of a lot of the people who now have turned on you? Yeah. Yeah, well, my poetry seeks to find some clarity in the world and to make things less confusing and to celebrate the mystery of being awake in the world and finding a certain kind of prayerful rhythm to just one's being present.

And I find that's something that's not, people don't engage in that enough now. There are so many distractions and so many very toxic uses of language. A good poem can, for lack of a better way of putting it, be a kind of palate cleanser. And not to call my book a palate cleanser, but maybe in a way it is. But it's also, I would hope, a good companion for someone who wants to engage in language that is not being used to sell them something or to manipulate them in some kind of horribly negative way or to tribalize them more than they already are. I really aim for, and this is a very romantic notion, but I aim for a certain kind of purity in my work. I've complained before that when you scroll X, sometimes you inadvertently get exposed to like teenage child beat downs or some sort of animal abuse. And it's awful. You don't want

to be exposed to that just willy nilly while you're just getting your morning newsfeed. Your tweets, your sub stack, your poetry are the opposite of that. You come across a Joseph Massey thoughtful tweet, a post now it's called, or your poems and you think, oh, this is exactly what my brain and soul and spirit need. Just like a moment, a beautiful photograph because you're an amazing photographer too, or like a pause with some words to capture something we all feel when we see this particular site out on the street, but we have no words to get there. We don't know exactly how we feel until we read the Joseph Massey take on it. That's what I love about, especially your connection to nature.

Oh, thanks so much. Yeah. My presence on X, I consider it to be kind of like a, like a protest against the modern world and where it's heading. I know that the, the, I'm, I'm usually not posting things that are going to, um, be most engaging to the algorithm. Um, but that's kind of the pleasure of using a platform like that is being essentially disruptive with content that is not inherently disruptive at all. I hate seeing those videos as well, especially kids being bullied. It makes me physically sick. And there's more and more of that on X because that's what gets the, gets the views. But, um, yeah, I will continue to, to continue staging my one man protest against, uh, uh, toxicity on, uh, social media. Well, that's one of the beauties of having been thrown into it, right? Having been thrown to swim in the stew of toxicity is you hate it in a particularly vicious way. And you can either channel that into bitterness and

awfulness, or you can channel it into beauty and light like you've done. Again, we'll just want to keep reminding the audience. First of all, if you want to follow Joseph on Twitter, he's at or X now at J Massey with an E M A S S E Y poet at J Massey poet. The book is called decades, selected poems, decades, selected poems. If you don't mind, I'm just going to read them part of one because there's so many to choose from. I like, I, I don't know, even know how, like I, when I was looking at them, I'm like, I said, I don't know how I'm going to choose, but, uh, this is just from prologue previously unpublished long poem. And it's got a few different sections. And I'm, if you don't mind, Joseph, I'm going to read the part about snow. Not at all. As a, as a former Syracuse, New York girl and Albany, I love snow. Uh, it reads as

follows snow in slow streaks, animates a skeletal tree quiet enough now to hear the heavy flakes It reads as follows. of woods cut through by a creek. I see a steeple and the cross cut up in fog, a patch of moss on a stone wall, like a lantern lit with the last light. At empire's end, I watch sparrows rip apart the bread thrown across a lawn. Then I'll keep going. And there's sub five, first Sunday of Advent. Inexplicably, the scent of jasmine threads the night air, cold air, closer now to winter than the depths of fall. Nothing's in bloom but a dumpster overflowing and a few chimneys. It must be the wood smoke that thins into imagined jasmine. Walking home, streetlights dim. I see as far as I can think. And here the season begins in the dark, waiting for the word to emerge, like the amber glow in a window at the end of the road.

That just takes me right back. No, what you wrote is beautiful. It just takes me right back to so many moments of my childhood, Joseph. When you're a kid, if you're doing it right, you're outdoors all the time. And all these words you wrote, you take them in through your senses, your eyes and your ears and your sense of smell and the feeling on your skin. And they're in there. They're in there to this day, all these years later, but you lose connection. You don't have the words to describe them. And then you read the words and like smelling a scent 40 years later, that brings back the thing immediately. These words bring back the experience. And it's what I absolutely love about your writing. So what is it? Why,

how did you get this connection to nature? Like, were you always an outdoorsy guy? No, I did not grow up in areas that were nothing but nature, but they were always adjacent to nature. early childhood outside of Philadelphia. And I loved playing in the creeks and the little patches of woods that were probably, you know, the creeks were most likely polluted. But I was surrounded by refineries, oil refineries and things like that. But I think what always struck me from a young age was how nature is so indomitable. And despite being, as a young child, in a landscape full of refineries and factories and pollution, you could see and feel it in the air, nature still was always bounding forward.

And there was an inherent beauty to that. I didn't have these particular thoughts as a kid, but it stuck with me. And I did live for 12 years on the coast of Humboldt County, California, one of the most geographically beautiful places I've ever lived in. And that kind of, those poems are throughout decades. And most of them are from books that have been taken out of print by publishers that just ghosted me after I was canceled. So it's good to have that work back in print.

Yeah, good for all of us. That one image, walking home, streetlights dim, I see as far as I can think. And here the season begins in the dark, waiting for the word to emerge like the amber glow in a window at the end of the road. I remember a time when I was just 12, which is my daughter's age now, in Albany, New York. It was a frigid winter as they all are and were, especially some odd years ago, back in 1983. And it was that. It was like independence. The night was falling. I was walking on my own. The snow was coming down. And all those feelings of like, I'm on my own. I'm on the cusp of not exactly adulthood, but getting there and womanhood. And somebody else could have said,

this is dangerous, but I'm out here and I'm connected with God and with nature. And yes, hopefully the word will come and shepherd me through this next phase of life. It's just, it's so everything that you think about resonates with me. Now, I do want to ask you how you are doing because you've moved into a new apartment. You've got Jarvis, your cat. And when I met you, you were basically in the basement. I think that's where your Substack name came from. Not basically. I was in the basement.

You were. And now you're moving up. You were not a rich man, but you literally moved up in the world, did you not? It seems like things are going a bit better now. They're going much, much better, certainly thanks to being on your show and my social media following growing. I've been able to sell books and Substack subscriptions that have helped me move from the basement to a second floor apartment with livable conditions. I was not living in a very nice place. I mean, it was, well, I'll just leave it there. And so life has gotten so much better.

And I hope anyone out there who's being canceled or has been canceled, you can come back. It takes a lot of work, especially if you're an artist. But you can do it yourself and you can reclaim the audience you lost. there for us, for artists, if they want to break free from the mainstream structure of how people generally become successful in the literary world. It's obsolete now. Yeah, you can if people support you, if you get the word out. And that's why I really urge the audience to support Joseph. Please, please, please. The book is Decades, Selected Poems, A Career Retrospective. And it's by Joseph Massey. You can get it on Amazon, get it now. And wouldn't it be a thing if we drove it right to the top of Amazon's list?

And dare I even pause it, maybe even the New York Times, where all your snooty, bitchy poetry friends would eat their hats to see you rise again to the top. Before we go, I've got to ask you about some of those terrible people. I saw you posted something about one of their poems lately, which is a lovely little ditty called The Jesus Fridge, which is, I guess, pushed by the Academy of American Poets, talking about some fridge, as far as I can tell, that didn't work. And then the light came back on like Jesus and writes as follows, the collision of the mundane and mechanical with the long haired and the sanctimonious. This is a George Floyd moment for both Israelis and Palestinians.

What? Wait, I've got questions about the real poetry world. So maybe the Academy of American Poets and you needed to divide, Joseph. It doesn't seem like that was ever destined to work out. I'm glad they completely deleted all of my work that they published over the years. And I'm so glad they did because they've turned into nothing but a uh a political arm for the just the totally toxic woke um stuff that's taken over the art world and it's it's totally exemplified in the jesus fridge which is one of the worst poems i've ever read and it's written by a professor who i think teaches creative writing um and is an editor of a once esteemed press, I think Pitt Press. Yeah. And it's just, and the poem was published on Good Friday by this organization that just received

$5.7 million from the Mellon Foundation to publish crap like that, that is more about the political agenda. And I think absolutely about offending Christians. These are very nasty people who no longer care about the art, but care about the political, the political jab that they can make with poetry. And that's a pretty perverse thing. Yeah, this this guy goes on to say, a George Floyd moment for both Americans who sympathize with Israel and those who sympathize with Palestinians. It's a holy fuck moment for anyone who cares about human life. Upstairs, the bathtub is filling with blood. Goes on. I mean, this is fine. They have no problem with Jeffrey McDaniel.

But you they've got a problem with because your relationship with your ex badly. And she decided to go just full bore against you publicly. And there's no amount of penance that was 18. So you can never go back. You remain scrubbed and canceled. There's no redemption in the haughty world of poetry, which is where all of us come in because we are collectively giving them our long and elegant middle fingers because we're on team Joseph Massey. Okay. Don't forget. It's called Decades Selected Poems available now. I'm going to be going there and buying a bunch myself. And you should subscribe to his sub stack at poetrydispatches.com and support his work there. All the best to you, my friend.

We'll see you all tomorrow. Thanks for listening to the Megyn Kelly show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.