The Megyn Kelly Show - Megyn Kelly on the Truth About the Charlie Kirk Assassination, Plus Dave Smith on Epstein, Israel, and Distrusting the Elites | Ep. 1212

Episode Date: December 12, 2025

Megyn Kelly begins the show by breaking down alleged Charlie Kirk assassin Tyler Robinson's court appearance where he was smiling, calls out those who are ignorant about the law and explains why the FBI or police can't provide more updates, digs into the ongoing questions about what Robinson's furry boyfriend and others in the "trans" community knew ahead of time, explains why the press needs to be in the courtroom, and more. Then Dave Smith, host of "Part of the Problem," joins to talk about how the Charlie Kirk assassination was such a seminal cultural and political moment, the presumption of innocence vs. grappling with the loss of a friend and icon, how distrust in institutions feeds conspiracies,how Kirk provided a platform for debate and dialogue, the well-earned and bipartisan distrust in government, the areas about Israel and Epstein that are "off limits" for some, the Dems releasing photos of Trump and others on the right with Jeffrey Epstein, the way the Epstein story connects our elites and sows distrust, what will happen next when more documents are released, and more. Smith- https://partoftheproblem.com/ Done with Debt: https://www.DoneWithDebt.com & tell them Megyn Kelly sent you!Cozy Earth: Slow down and recharge with Cozy Earth’s luxurious Bamboo Sheets and Bubble Cuddle Blanket—order by December 12 for Christmas delivery and use code MEGYN at https://CozyEarth.com for up to 40% off.Birch Gold: Text MK to 989898 and get your free info kit on goldFirst Liberty Institute: Explore why religious liberty is the first freedom tyrants target—and get your free copy of America’s First Freedom at https://FirstLiberty.org/Megyn.  Follow The Megyn Kelly Show on all social platforms:YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/MegynKellyTwitter: http://Twitter.com/MegynKellyShowInstagram: http://Instagram.com/MegynKellyShowFacebook: http://Facebook.com/MegynKellyShow Find out more information at:https://www.devilmaycaremedia.com/megynkellyshow Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Welcome to the Megan Kelly Show, live on SiriusXM Channel 111 every weekday at New East. Hey, everyone, I'm Megan Kelly. Welcome to the Megan Kelly show, and happy Friday. We begin today on the court appearance by Tyler Robinson, the man accused extremely credibly of murdering our friend Charlie Kirk in September. He made his first in-person course. appearance yesterday out in Utah. He had appeared virtually into previous hearings, and he was allowed to wear civilian gear, not a prison jump suit, in order to protect his presumption of innocence, given that while there are obviously no jurors, yet this trial doesn't take place until tentatively January of 2027, he would be on camera with the media there, and they don't want to taint the jury pool. So great. He gets to stand there like some sort of upstanding citizen in his blue button-down shirt and tie. He was all smiles, which is

fucking disgusting, because I guess he's feeling joyful. He's maybe feeling like he's going to get away with it. I don't know what he's thinking. I do care, but I don't care about his well-being. His parents sat in the front row. The mother was crying. I mean, I'm sorry that she's sad. And I'm sorry she raised a killer, but that's what she did. Again, I have some empathy for the parents, but not for him, not for him whatsoever. And the parents, for the record, did the right thing. When they recognized their son from the pictures that were released of the crime scene by the FBI within the hours after Charlie was murdered, and they recognized the picture of the gun that the FBI released, and they contacted him.

They were the ones who identified their own son as having been the person in the photos and that having been the gun that his grandfather gave to him. They contacted their son asking where he was. They eventually figured out that it was him. He reportedly confessed to his parents who then brought in a family friend who was both a pastor and connected with law enforcement to convince Tyler Robinson to turn himself in, which is what happened. That's how this went down.

That's why, among other reasons, he was arrested. His fingerprints were all over the gun, were reportedly over. I can't remember if it was the ammo in addition to the doors leading to the rooftop, et cetera. And in addition to confessing to his parents, he confessed to his trans-furry lover in text messages that I grant you sound odd. They sound a little prescripted. But that does not lead sane people to believe this was the FBI. creating a false dialogue, but possibly these two freaks, Tyler Robinson and his trans furry boyfriend, creating a false dialogue to, in my view, at best, try to exonerate Lance Twigs, the trans furry boyfriend

from knowing about this thing in advance, which I believe he did. I believe he knew in advance, and I believe his weird, trans furry community knew in advance, and some couldn't keep their fucking mouth shut and started spewing off online about wait until September 10th. Wait until you see what happens September 10th. And then when Charlie was murdered, went back online to say, see, I told you. So I'd love to know where things stand with that piece of the investigation. But because I am a sane person who understands the law, I also know that the FBI, hello, does not run around updating its investigation and releasing the very latest on what they found. And people who are demanding that the FBI or DOJ do so do not know anything.

about law enforcement. Some of us have been covering in-depth legal cases and matters and have even tried cases and matters for years. That is how I have spent the past 30 years of my life. Plus, trying cases involved in the legal system as a trial attorney, then a Supreme Court correspondent covering cases, civil and criminal, then as a legal correspondent for Fox News, legal commentator for Fox News, and ever thereafter. And let me tell you something.

The FBI does not run around updating its information after somebody gets indicted. It doesn't. It would be extraordinary if it were to do so. And the DOJ is extremely tight-lipped, normally on its criminal cases. When it's not, it's behaving inappropriately. When it's not, you have rogue prosecutors who wasn't with the DOJ, just James. but like her, the Attorney General of New York, running around trying to update her case against Donald Trump, or Fannie Willis shooting her mouth off about Donald Trump.

What did we do when those prosecutors did that? We ripped them a new one because it's inappropriate. Stop requesting or requiring the FBI or the DOJ to update its evidence for you. You're not the target audience. They're trying to preserve the investigation. They're trying to preserve the integrity of this case for when they get it in front of a jury who are the only people who matter. I'm sorry, but their opinion is the only opinion that's going to matter in this case. And they will come to that opinion based on evidence that gets submitted to them that passes the rules of evidence,

which are there to maintain the integrity of a case and an investigation and of the defendant's constitutional rights. That's how our system works. That's how our system works. Stop demanding that the FBI update you. That's not how it works, and it would be inappropriate for them to come out and shoot off their mouths about the latest and greatest they have, unless and until they are ready to arrest somebody else. And when they are, if they are, on Trans-Tifa, we're all ears. Then they will provide some basic modicum of evidence to support the arresting affidavit, the arresting, the arrest indictment. That's how this works. By the way, criminal prosecutors have an ethical

obligation not to spout off about their evidence in the case. We actually pulled this this morning just in case you were wondering. Rule 3.8 of the ABA model rules restricts prosecutors from making extrajudicial statements that heightened public condemnation. Remember when Fannie Willis did that about Donald Trump and his defense lawyers, too, like spouting off about how race was at issue in this case. It was completely inappropriate. And we argued that correctly at the time. So I don't know how we spun from that into, we're allowed to spew conspiracy theories about the case because the FBI is not saying anything. That's just bass backwards. It's not true. Okay? It's not. The rule. The

Rules are the same in all the cases, including this one. Now, here's what happened in court. Tyler Robinson went in there, charged with aggravated murder, and fell in use of a firearm as well as other charges. And what they argued about yesterday was media rights in this case. And by the way, media rights in this case are extremely important, okay? Because neither the prosecution nor the defense are fighting for us to be in there. Neither probably wants us.

The prosecutor has acknowledged we may have a limited right. that's not it. Sorry, prosecutor. We have a full right. We're the eyes and ears of the people. You're not a judge, Graff. You're not going to keep the press out of this courtroom. Maybe you're going to succeed in keeping cameras out. You shouldn't because they're allowed in Utah, but you shouldn't. But you're not going to keep the press out of this courtroom. I'm sorry to bring it to you. We have every right to be in there. This is a public proceeding. And we will be in there. and we will be documenting every word of this trial, no matter how badly the defense attorneys who are really the ones pushing for it, want us out. We represent the people. And the people have

every right to be in there to watch what happens in this case. So what's happening right now in that courtroom is a legal fight over whether the press is even going to be given notice of the hearings that concern the press's right to be present at the hearings on the trial of this case. They're not even sure we get to be there when they argue over our access rights. That's effed up, too. We'll see what this judge graph rules, but right now he's keeping a very tight lid on even those arguments. And it's somewhat infuriating, as you can hear in my voice. there are issues of public access to this case that need to be protected.

And if this judge rules as somehow the press must be excluded from anything other than sealed proceedings and things that must be kept under seal, he's going to be reversed. There was an issue yesterday stemming from an October 24th hearing, which was closed to the public about courtroom security, media coverage, and Robinson's ability to wear civilian clothing. media organizations yesterday wanted a transcript of that hearing. But attorneys for Robinson and for the state of Utah have proposed certain redactions to the transcript. An attorney for the media coalition, which is good. We have our own media attorney, Michael Judd, urged the judge to let the news organizations weigh in on any future requests that would limit our access. And that's what they were fighting about. The defense also asked Judge Graf to ban cameras from the courtroom completely, citing a content tornado.

that could permanently devastate the jury pool. We have had jury pools overwhelmed with information about cases for years, ever since the dawn of court TV and of O.J. Simpson and so on. And we've managed it sometimes well, sometimes poorly, but we've managed it. There are ways of managing cameras in the courtroom. They were about to do this for Brian Colberger, who at that point was much more infamous than Tyler Robinson. and it was going to be managed with cameras in the courtroom, and it can be managed here as well.

There are, let's see, there was an issue yesterday because the media inadvertently showed Tyler Robinson's shackles, and there's a question about whether that's going to taint the jury pool. It's not. It's not. The media apologized for doing it. It was inadvertent. But the jurors, the potential jurors understand that the defendant is perceived as a potentially dangerous human because he's on trial for assassinating someone. Let's not pretend the glimpse at his shackles changed anybody's mind whatsoever about Tyler Robinson. For what it's worth, Erica Kirk has made clear she wants cameras in this courtroom. She points out cameras captured her husband's murder, and everyone has seen that video, and why would we not allow it here? There is a disturbing news item today out of KUTV, which is the local CBS station in Salt Lake City, that we are possibly missing, possibly, the surveillance video of Tyler Robinson turning himself in.

the media tried to get that video with a FOIA request. Again, this is public information. And apparently they were told that it may not be available. Like the standard response from the sheriff's office was, we do not have any records responsive to this portion of the request, as Tyler Robinson did not go to or enter the jail area. They had asked for a jail area or holding area video of Robinson when he'd turn himself in. and that's what a records office with the sheriff's office told the media subpoenaing it or foyering it,

I should say. A few weeks later, two news re-upped the request in a more generalized fashion, asking for surveillance video showing Tyler Robinson walking into Washington County Sheriff's Office, just walking in. And the response came, our office does not have any applicable records responsive to this as the surveillance footage is no longer available after the 30-day retention period. That suggests it's been deleted. When asked if the video was shared with any law enforcement or legal agency, the department responded. It is my understanding that it was never sent out to any agency. And that certainly makes it sound like they deleted this file if it ever existed.

A defense attorney, criminal defense attorney generic, that two news asked about this out in Utah, a guy by the name of Rudy Battista. defense attorney of 26 years in Utah who works on capital cases said for the state of Utah, we would certainly hope this video is available. If in fact it's been destroyed and is not preserved, it's very concerning. And if it has, then it's very concerning that they're telling you they don't have it. If they no longer have it, I would expect, I would have expected them to say that the video has been provided to the Utah County law enforcement. But instead, the letter leads, in my opinion, as

Rees, I think he means, as trying to shut the door and not give you free access to this information. Video of Robinson turning himself in, he adds, would be crucial for the defense work of mitigation. So we'll see whether

that actually winds up surfacing, but I agree it's disturbing if it's been deleted. Another thing I wanted to tell you about, the daily mail, take it with a grain of salt, but they are reporting that they had a lip reader go in and try to lip read Tyler Robinson's statements in court. This is pseudoscience, not actual science. We don't know whether these are actually what he was saying. But he was

talking a lot to his defense lawyers. And they report that he allegedly, told his attorney, Catherine Nestor, quote, I think about the shooting daily every morning all the time, that he then said, so he had a wife in reference to Kirk's widow, Erica, that he then said, just smoking a lot, talking about himself, not sleeping at night, it's driving me mental. Unfortunately, it's doing my head in. I'm not good for anything. He then allegedly said something about his mother Amber, quote, my mother goes away to see friends to be away from the media, which I think makes sense. He then allegedly said, what I would like to do is make it as easy as possible by answering all of their questions,

so there is no comeback. That doesn't really make sense. So I'm not sure this is correct, but that for what it's worth is what this lip reader, someone named Nicola Hickling, who works, runs quote, lip reader, a service that does this. I think that's the gist of it. Those are the highlights of what he actually said. As I pointed out, he was in the courtroom smiling. I certainly hope he doesn't have reason to smile. I certainly hope he's not banking on people being confused about the overwhelming mountain of evidence against him. Because let me tell you, those of us who are clear-eyed on what is and is not admissible as proof, and that's really all we should be concerned with. See all evidence pointing directly to Tyler Robinson.

All of it pointing directly to Tyler Robinson. My only question is who may have helped him and who may have known about it prior to his arrest. And I really hope that the prosecution has no problem making that case. Inside the courtroom, multiple law enforcement officers stood along the walls, more than are usually seen in a courtroom. Four of them wore camouflage fatigues and SWAT gear reports KUER, local station, talked about the fight to ban the cameras and so on, the fight over the shackles. And the only issue that Judge Graff ruled on from the bench was clarifying his previous gag order, which restricts people involved in the case from making public statements outside the

courtroom. They write, while roughly 3,000 people witnessed the killing of Charlie Kirk, Judge Graff said the only lay people under that gag are witnesses whom the prosecution or defense believes they will call to testify. And so that should excuse most of the people who witness Charlie's assassination, though not all. And only they know, only the ones who have been contacted by law enforcement as potential witnesses in the case. You know, if I had been interviewed by law enforcement at this point, whether they said you're going to be a witness or not, if I had been interviewed by them, I would understand myself as under the gag order. And that's to preserve the integrity of the trial. It really doesn't do the prosecution any good to have their

witnesses out there talking. I mean, we've seen this. I'm not accusing anybody of having done but we've seen this in earlier cases, including OJ, where a critical witness who was going to be able to testify is seeing OJ drive away from Bundy where Nicole Brown Simpson was murdered. She was ready to testify to seeing him drive away from the scene of the crime had sold her story to the media between the crime and the date of trial. And she was rendered utterly useless to the prosecutor. She just looked like she's in it for money. And so the gag order for people who may actually be witnesses at trial does make some sense if you want to protect both the prosecution's right to a fair trial, although the right to a fair trial speaks chiefly to the defense and to the defendant's right to a fair trial. So if you've been interviewed by law enforcement or have reason to believe you're going to be called a trial, you really shouldn't be speaking to the media, which would encompass some public names who are now. in the national debate, who are also under pressure to speak out, but know something in some cases

that the rest of us don't know and are not free to fully talk about the events of that day. Please keep that in mind as you assess what's happening in this case. Look, Tyler Robinson did this. It seems very clear to me. My only hope is that I can be there in the room when they flip the switch and take his life. I want him. I'm dead. I want the death penalty handed down against him and anyone who helped him. And I will be gleeful on the day it is carried out. I honestly don't, I don't know how that squares with my Catholic faith, to be honest. We're not real pro the state killing people or humans taking other humans' lives, whether it's in the womb or in the course of a crime. But we are pro-justice. And the

Bible does say an eye for an eye. And there is no deterrence. I'm sorry, the deterrence, I do believe, requires the death penalty in the most heinous of cases. And I do believe it should be reserved for the most heinous of cases. And this is that. This is that. Charlie was shot down in the prime of his life. He had so much yet to offer. He was a loving father of two. He and Erica adored one another, lived for one another. They had so much yet to do. She wanted four children. So did he. he desperately wanted four kids, they have two, and we'll never have another. Everything he's been cheated out of, everything those children were cheated out of, every happiness Erica has been cheated out of, everything the world, the country, a future president,

we all believe, that we've been cheated out of. He deserves to be put to death when he's convicted of this crime, which in my strong legal opinion, he should be. So that's where I am today, being reminded of the depravity of this so-called man. Evil, an evil, evil, evil being. I don't, I don't want to use the word person. I just, I don't understand this person. I don't understand the guy who shot up the Ascension school in Minneapolis who was drawing pictures of demons and looked to me to have been possessed by one. I don't understand them. I just want them gone. I don't think the earth

suffers when they're eliminated. I want it done legally. don't get me wrong. I certainly don't want to see him assassinated in prison. I'm fine if that happens to Brian Colberger for what it's worth. I don't know. This is my moral code. Is it fucked up? How do you feel about it? Do you share it? Like, I'll pray for forgiveness if forgiveness is in order. But that's where I am today reminded of the awfulness of what happened. If you can make one holiday wish, would you wish to be free from your credit card and other debt? while here's why now is the time to make a move. This time of year, credit card and loan companies close out their books. They can clean up past due accounts, and they sell or write off debt.

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Let's keep going because I do have a guest. here with me today, and I want to talk to him. He hasn't been on in a while, and I'm happy to welcome back, stand-up comedian and commentator, Dave Smith. He's host of the show, part of the problem. Dave, welcome back. Good to see you. Hey, Megan, thanks so much for having me. Oh, these legal cases are just, they're awful, you know, and you're reminded of what happened to Charlie on the day, September 10th, and of just how traumatic it was. I don't think we've stopped reeling. I think for the past three months, the country writ large has still been reeling and conservatives have been reeling and i think many of us

who are right wing or associated with the right wing or just heterodox and are thinking like i know you are have have not gotten over the additional threat to our safety and security as a result of all this where are you on it yeah i mean even as i'm sitting here listening to your opening which i think was was spot on and very good um it's all so surreal to me like I just still can't believe where I have this thing which I've had before when I've lost friends and family members where I still find myself on some level going like man I can't wait to hear Charlie's take on all of this same which I don't know is like my own weird way of grappling with the inevitability or the permanence of death or something like that I um but you know I so I totally

agree with everything you said there you know I would just I would add that look the presumption of innocence isn't just a principle. It is the foundational principle of Western civilization. It's the without it, there is no liberty. Like you could write the most perfect constitution ever, but if the government can accuse you of something and you're presumed guilty, you have no, you don't have one inch of liberty. And so of course, you know, and then of course it should also be added that we're all friends. We were all friends with Charlie. And so we would have to recuse ourselves, right? Like, you know, you're more of the legal expert than me. But But we would not so, so like, there's this tremendous emotion that is impossible to completely

remove from us. And then of course, now, this is not a legal argument, but the crime of murdering Charlie Kirk is so much more than just the crime of murder. It's the highest profile political assassination of my lifetime. It's like a crime against the country. It's a crime against our cohesion, a crime against domestic tranquility. And so, and I also think, I don't know. there's a legal way that that can be accounted for, but that's part of the reason why you

absolutely need to have cameras. You need this to be the most transparent trial because it's really is almost in some way like a matter of national security. And then, you know, I think your point is really well taken that look, people jump to conclusions off of little things that seem odd to them. But like even like you said, like the text messages, yes, that seemed odd to me too. But it always to me seemed like the obvious answer was what you said. It was like out of breaking bad, there's that scene where Walter White calls his wife in front of the cops. And he intentionally trying to get her off of the hook, right? And so there's just people connect dots sometimes when they shouldn't be connected.

And of course, we're going to have to wait until this trial before we get his defense and the prosecution's case. I would say, though, that like the other factor here is just that, you know, this Justice Department lost all credibility. over the Epstein thing. I know. There's just, you know, there's just like no way to undo that. I'm sorry. You're right. It's like catching your spouse cheating on you.

That's it. Like, you lost trust. The trust has not been rebuilt. I mean, what the, the, I've never seen an issue mishandled more by any administration ever. I don't, I don't think Joe Biden's senality was handled worse than this. I mean, between Pam Bondi having that, that stunt where she, gave all these right-wing influencers, the Epstein files, saying they're sitting on her desk, turning around, then them trying to tell you it was a democratic hoax and it never existed.

Then Mike Johnson saying it's a threat to our entire political order if we release the files, then Trump turning around and releasing the files that he just said didn't exist and we're a democratic hoax. And so after that, we're in that. And this, I think, really is something like central to the state of where the United States of America is today. There is no more trust in institutions. And there are bad aspects to that. But also that distrust was earned by the institutions themselves. It's a very important point. I mean, just today and this week in the news, two of the biggest headlines are 10 children died immediately after getting the COVID vaccine, which we were told was safe for children and many schools made mandatory after the FDA

blessed it and pushed it. And now today, there's additional news about the extent of myocarditis that this thing is causing in adults and causing adults to drop dead, also now disclosed by an honest FDA under Martin McCarrie and Vinay Prasad, who was an early critic of, not even critic, but just an honest broker about what was happening with the Vax. All this was fucking suppressed. People are dying as a result. So you're totally right. The distrust in government agencies, yes, goes well into public health. And the DOJ and FBI, now? Because to your point, what was the first big action that we saw this DOJ do? It was the Epstein thing. It was Pam Bondi needing to see herself on TV running around saying, the file's on

my desk. He was disgusting. Wait until you see all the videos. You know, we're not going to read the actual videos, but let me, trust me, there have been tens of thousands of him with like child pornography. And then, oh, there's nothing. And then no explanation. No, no like mea culpa, No, presser, Dave, we're like, she fell on her sword and said, I misspoke. That was stupid. Let me tell you everything we actually do have. It never happened. We were told to move on. And it's been very tough. One silver lining. It's not the DOJ that's handling the Tyler Robinson criminal case. It's the Utah State authorities about whom we know very little. I have no reason to trust or distrust them. They haven't crossed me or the public in any way that comes to mind. So I'm open-minded on how they'll do. Yeah, fair enough. I was more just getting at, you know, like Cash Patel coming out and saying that we, you know, we, we, we recreated the letter that we found from him is just, I think, like,

I'm in the camp with the American people where it's just like, I don't trust a word you say. That's where I'm at with this Justice Department. So I, fair, fair point there. But I think that, like, look, even with, say, like, to your point with the Epstein thing, I know I was there, we didn't see each other. I think I was there the day after you, but at the. the student action summit at Charlie Kirk's last huge event for the one where he was killed, where you said like, someone was like, hey, if you had to guess, who would you say? And you went,

well, Israel intelligence does seem to be the most likely. So, okay, everyone wants to jump on you for speculating about that, even though you were acknowledging that you're speculating. We don't know for sure. Yeah. So, okay, fine. So what was the relationship between Ehud Barak and Jeffrey Epstein then? What's your explanation for it, alternative people who are outraged? Well, why is it that I just learned? Sorry, go ahead. I was just going to say, maybe we should ask Benjamin Netanyahu, who is now tweeting out articles saying Ehud Barak was, and Jeffrey Epstein were sharing

intelligence, that there was an intelligence sharing arrangement between them. So it's like, that's according to Netanyahu. But I was called an anti-Semite, as I know you have been countless times, for saying, might have been Israel. Might have been Israel. And honestly, like, what happened with you at that student action summit? you debated Josh Hammer. You were there having a debate with a Zionist, with a big Israel defender.

Like, that's what was happening. But, of course, yes, that was evidence that you're not allowed to discuss. You can't have a debate. You can only have the one side. And you can't ever say that Epstein might have been Israeli intelligence, might have been American intelligence. It's an asset of some sort because that's also anti-Semitic, allegedly. And again, it's back to the same point.

Like, how many times have I caught you guys lying? Benjamin Netanyahu has been lying to me for my entire life, telling me that Iran is five years away from a nuclear weapon, trying to get my country into a war with Iran, which he kind of succeeded in this last year, at least a little one. It's like, I don't know. You guaranteed. When you testified before Congress in 2002, your exact words were, I guarantee if you overthrow Saddam Hussein, positive reverberations will sweep the region.

Like, you lie slash get everything wrong. expect me to rely on your word and you know for for whatever like i know there's the the spat between erika kirk and kandis owens right now and however anyone feels about any of that um you know like i was friends with charlie this is his widow i'm friends with kandis owens it's kind of an awkward situation to be in but one thing that you cannot take away from kandis owens is that what she did expose is that josh hammer and bill actman and benjamin netanyahu lied through the their teeth about Charlie Kirk in the immediate wake of his murder during an active murder investigation, which like, okay, you want to take any responsibility for why people might

not believe, you know what I mean? Like what, like, what is that going to lead to? I mean, Josh Hammer, I mean, I just thought this was like, unbelievable. Are you talking about the, like, the attempted intervention that they did with Charlie prior to, what exactly, what exactly happened in the Hamptons or what exactly the intervention was? Like, I don't know that that's exactly been proven, but I do know, look, I met Josh Hammer, I debated him twice. I debated him at Princeton University once and then there. And I did think he was a real snake when we had like a totally nice conversation backstage. Charlie had insisted over and over that this be like a good faith debate. Me and Josh talked for like a half hour backstage about like family

and kids and all this stuff. And then he gets out there in his opening statement and he goes, I'm disgusted to be on this stage with Dave Smith right now. I'm not surprised. I'm not surprised. Can I tell you? I had Josh Hammer on this show repeatedly many times. And you know, I'm pro-Israel. Like, I've been defensive of Israel. Not exactly Israel, but like if it's right to defend itself. I haven't really been zeroing in on their tactics and all the news over the past two years. It's just not what our show does. But in general, supportive of Israel and definitely defensive of American Jews subjected to anti-Semitism. And I had him on the show numerous times where we talked about those issues. I promoted. his very crappy podcast for him many times. And then after literally, I said nothing anti-Semitic, even arguably anti-Semitic, he was out, he was one of the first out there attacking me. Like, what the fuck? Like, yes, I agree. A snake. But so, yeah, like, to me, that's snake behavior. Like, if I was going to go on stage and say, I'm disgusted to be on here with you, I guarantee you I'd have that energy in the green room with you, too. To me, like, just as a man, that's just

how you conduct yourself. But my point is, so initially, Candace made the accusation. that Jewish donors were pulling money from Charlie Kirk over platforming Tucker and you and me and that Charlie was so mad that he was getting ready to turn on Israel. And Josh Hammer and Bill Akman, they all came out. They said, that is an anti-Semitic lie. And then the text message dropped. Like, I'm sorry, but you just, that is a, it is a, and by the way, Josh Hammer, in every interview while he was saying that, just kept saying how much

Charlie Kirk loved his book. It's like the weirdest thing to say about your friend right after they did. Like, imagine, like, that was my, you know, Charlie always told me how great my podcast was, and you really got to listen to it. And you can check it out, settle for more on Amazon.com. Yeah, like, I mean, and then Benjamin Netanyahu decides to read from this letter and quote, only like three sentences where Charlie's talking about how much he loves Israel. And he omits that the entire letter was Charlie going, we're getting killed out here.

I don't have counter arguments to what these, this Hasbara stuff isn't working. anymore. We're losing the entire young generation. Like, what a lie of omission that is. And so I just like, I'm kind of just disgusted by all of that. I just, I can't imagine like a friend of yours who, like, just got publicly executed in the most horrific way. It's the biggest profile, the highest profile political assassination of our lifetime during an active murder investigation. You're just out there lying about this? I'm just, I was like blown away by that. It's, it's awful. I mean, I said this yesterday, I'll say it again today. I do have thoughts on what's happening now between Candace and Erica, and I will be sharing

them very soon, and I have a very good reason for not sharing them yet, which will become very apparent to everybody when I do. But putting a pin in that for my audience and me. Okay, let's keep going because there are a couple of... Well, you got me interested now. No, I'm going to exercise patience. It would probably be Monday or Tuesday. Think about December.

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And for every $5,000 you buy, you will get an ounce of silver for your stocking or for your kids. Just text MK to 9-8-9-8-9-9-8 to claim your eligibility for this offer. Again, text MK to the number 9898.98 today because Birch Gold's free silver with qualifying purchase promotion ends on December 22nd. Message and data rates may apply. Hey, everyone. It's me, Megan Kelly. I've got some exciting news. I now have my very own channel on Sirius XM. It's called the Megan Kelly channel and it is where you will hear the truth unfiltered with no agenda and no apologies. Along with the Megan Kelly show, you're going to hear from people like Mark Halprin, Link Lauren Callahan, Emily Dushinsky, Jesse Kelly,

Real Clear Politics, and many more. It's bold, no BS news. Only on the Megan Kelly channel, SiriusXM 11, and on the SiriusXM app. This just broke moments ago. The Democrats on the House Oversight Committee have released photos from Jeffrey Epstein's estate. We're getting dribs and drabs of. this. And we had some pictures already, and here's some. There are some that show Donald Trump, Bill Clinton, Steve Bannon, Bill Gates, and others. None of the released images depicts

any sexual misconduct. None is believed to depict underage girls. It was not immediately clear when or where they were taken or by whom. Okay, here's one. This image, I haven't seen it, I'm seeing it with you for the first time, shows what appears to be a bowl of novelty condoms and a caricature of Trump's face. The bull has a sign that reads Trump condom $4.50. Each condom bears an image of Trump's face with the text. I'm huge. I have no idea what the context of this is.

It's just like being dropped out, like, I guess, Trump and condoms. So it's interesting to the Dems. Another shows Trump with six women wearing Hawaiian lays whose faces have been redacted by the committee. Okay. No one's shocked to see Donald Trump with attractive young women. It's kind of been something he's done his whole life. Others include Steve Bannon and Epstein taking a photograph in a mirror. This two is not a surprise.

Surprise Steve Bannon and Jeffrey Epstein were a lot closer than we knew. This show disclosed that weeks ago, months ago, a month ago, where we talked about the tapes we had heard in which Epstein was being coached by Melissa Rumler, the former Obama White House Council and Steve Bannon and how to handle his growing reputational and legal problems post the Miami Herald exposé of him in 2018. Let's see. Bill Clinton with Epstein and Maxwell and another couple. Tech billionaire Bill Gates with the former Prince Andrew.

Prince Andrews is like the Waldo of the Jeffrey Epstein world. Former Harvard President Larry Summers and lawyer Alan Dershowitz also appearing in pictures from the estate. Of course, we know that Alan represented Epstein getting him that sweetheart deal. Last but not least, House Democrat Oversight tweet on the photos released. Breaking. Oversight Dems received 95,000 new photos from Epstein's estate. These disturbing images raise even more questions about Epstein and his relationships with some of those powerful men in the world. Time to end this White House cover-up,

release the files. So what's your take on where we stand now and what's been released on Epstein? What's going to be released? And even that law that Trump signed commanding the release has enough exceptions in it, Dave, to drive a U-Haul truck through it. Well, look, it's just, it's one of these things where it's just on the face of it. It's too absurd. Like, you just can't sell. Look, I mean, they're saying, like, that the files have to be redacted for national security reasons. Mike Johnson is saying that it would threaten the entire political order if it was released.

This is before they voted. He lost the vote and they, they, it was voted to release. Like, what? someone's got to explain that and and you know to the point that you were making before um one of the major things uh about say like the the story about um moderna covering up uh that Alex berenson broke about moderna covering up one of the dead uh kids in their in their trials and the other 10 that that died which was separate from that one is that we all sit here and go you lied through your teeth to us you censored us when we tried to tell the truth and no one's going to be held

responsible for this. Similar thing in the Jeffrey Epstein thing. Very similar thing, by the way, which just kind of seems to go unnoticed that several months back, the director of national intelligence in what, I know there's a lot of crazy things that go on these days, but this seems like a pretty big deal to me, Megan. Pretty big deal that the director of national intelligence accused the former president, Barack Obama, of committing treason, says she has the proof and she's sending it over to the Justice Department. And when's that indictment comment? We all know it's not happening. We all know no one's getting held responsible for Russia Gate or any of that.

I mean, even like, you know, even the, um, uh, Comey case, which they totally seem to have mishandled that he's not going to face any justice over all the crimes he committed. John Bolton may be actually caught with mishandling some classified information, but that's separate from the major crimes that have been committed. No one cares about John Bolton. Right, right, right. It's just not like are we ever like essentially when your whole central political promise was to drain the swamp. This is, you know, I've just never seen anything like this, like, where Donald Trump

had so much momentum a year ago and seems to have squandered all of it at this point. And now we're worried about like the Dems charging back in with an even more radical socialist agenda. And so, yeah, I guess, you know, I guess like looking at these pictures, no, do they really reveal anything that we didn't kind of already know? Something really creepy was going on there. Donald Trump, look, a lot of people, myself included, have a soft spot for Donald Trump because he came along as a wrecking ball. He came along as a giant middle finger to the D.C. elite who had done nothing short of destroy the United States of America.

I mean, I don't know how else to say it. Provide, oh, they presided, excuse me, over the United States of America, the strongest, most powerful, most economically advanced country in the history of humankind. And they've left us with 38 trillion dollars in debt, seven wars with just disastrous results, nothing but millions of people slaughtered, a debased currency, you know, just like so much awful. And so he was the middle finger to them. But if we're really being honest with ourselves here, Donald Trump was always a seedy guy. And, and like, you know, there's, there's, he's cheating on his pregnant wife with porn stars. And he's on record, well, there's already a tape of him out there.

Reportly. Yeah, yeah, sure, sure. Fine. Sorry, you're the lawyer. You have to say, you're the reporter and the lawyer. I'm a comedian. I get to just talk. But like, you know, at the same time, there's a videotape of him talking about how Jeffrey

Epstein loves the women and he loves them really young. And also there were just with guys, as you know, Megan, right? Like, with guys of that age, they did come up in a different time where like, true. There was just a different attitude about very young girls. else. It's an uncomfortable topic because, like, in my generation, we're not like that. But, you know, I did grow up with songs like, you know, like there's that that song, Into the Night, which, by the way, is a great song. The first lyric of it is, she's just 15 years old.

Who sings that? I can't remember. Uh, wait. Yes. I know the one. I know it. Now that you sing that. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, like, the whole, like, it was, there was just a different dynamic there. Steve Cracker says 16, FYI. Okay, that is much better than 15. I mean, not that it's that much better, but every year does make it better at that age. Oh, be careful. The internet is going to call you a pedophile defender. No, no, no. I'm not saying 16 is okay. I'm saying 15 is much worse. No one ever has. For the record. No one on this set has said that either. No, right. I mean, but I'm just saying like they're actually like these guys come from a different time with a different attitude.

We kind of all know there's something really disgusting going on here. But also beyond that, look, say like, mentioned Alan Dershowitz. Like, I've seen Alan Dershowitz make the defense before that, hey, I was his lawyer. We have a legal system here, and everyone has the right to a defense attorney. Hey, I'm not going to argue with that, right? That is how our system of justice works. But then you find, like, then there's the comment about like he kept his underwear on when he was getting massaged.

Then just recently we find out that, oh, you're actually working with Jeffrey Epstein to try to silence the Israel lobby from being public. Well, hey, that's not just being the guy's lawyer anymore. Now you're in a position where you're working with a guy who you know what he's doing and you're still choosing to work with him to try to do damage control on a story that's bad for who Megan? What year was that? What year does that happen? I'd have to double check what the year was.

But I know that the only reason I ask is Alan has said in his defense that he defended Jeffrey Epstein back in 2008 when he thought it was a much more limited field of crimes, and that he does have a policy of not defending, like, serial child abusers or sex abusers, and that his position is that he didn't know of that piece of Jeffrey Epstein back then. Forgive me if I haven't articulated it exactly right, but I remember him saying that. Okay, so maybe he may be able, because I'm just thinking when the Israel lobby came out, I have to, that would have been like, I mean, it was after the war in Iraq, so it was in the, is in the 21st century. It may be he has a defense there, but he said it happened in 2006, would

would track that he would have abandoned him. Okay, so that would put it right before there. Okay, fine, fine. So I'll retract that. But still, it does at least indicate that, like, it was a little bit more than just you being his lawyer here. Um, so, okay, fine. Well, we've seen Israel is the great uniter for certain people. And it's like, all that matters in their interpretation of whether you're a good person or not is how you feel about Israel. That's like, it's kind of crazy. 100%. Well, 100%. I mean, I've, I've certainly found that, like myself with a lot of these guys who, like, I was completely opposed to lockdowns and the vaccine mandates. I was completely opposed to U.S. supporting the war in Ukraine. I was

completely opposed to Joe Biden's open immigration. I'm opposed to big government. I believe in fiscal sanity. These guys all love that stuff, but it doesn't matter. They think I'm the devil because I'm critical of Israel and the U.S. relationship to Israel. And this, by the way, is John Mearsheimer and Walt's whole point is that this is the Israel. lobby. Like the Israel lobby isn't just A-PAC. The Israel lobby is Barry Weiss and Ben Shapiro and Alan Dershowitz. It's very obvious. It's their number one issue that animates them the most. You are evil if you're not on the same page with them as far as that's concerned. Ben Shapiro will, for all of his talk, he'll sit down with a progressive who believes is pro-choice and

believes in transing the kids or whatever. Maybe he'll even debate them. He's not sitting down with me. I'm beyond the pale. So like there it's just like it's obvious to everyone. one at this point. And I think all those guys, I don't hate any of them. I think all those guys would be better suited to admit it. Just admit that this is the issue that animates you the most. You're responding to the hatred you're feeling from them because you are an Israel critic. Like they drop the anti-Semitic word. It's very offensive. It's not apt. So it's a bastardization of the term, which weakens it and winds up rendering it meaningless. Same as we saw the left do with racist and, you know, anti-whatever, bigot, transphobe, that kind of thing.

Ben and I have sat down. He's never called me those words. But the Israel, like, lobby, the loud Israel, pro-Israel people on Twitter were quick to call me an anti-Semite just for that Jeffrey Epstein comment. Like, literally, they, it was like the pro-Israel coalition. I published it when it happened called me an anti-Semite and Charlie an anti-Semite at the, at the time. It was crazy. Mark Levin and so on. Anyway, enough about Israel. I'm sick of talking about them.

Sure. Let's keep going. The lawfare, one of the other things that's fallen apart, and you mentioned it, you know, in passing, is the lawfare. So the James Comey and the Tish James indictments have been dismissed because the judge found that Lindsay Halligan, the acting U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia was not properly appointed. They're having a legal debate about that. They're appealing that ruling. But in the meantime, they have to seek a re-indictment. of each. Now, Comey, there's an argument that the statute of limitations has expired. I think they're fine, actually. I think it hasn't. But, okay, we're going to see that litigated. But Tish James is well within the statute of limitations should definitely be re-indicted. Like, I don't care that it was a small number on the mortgage fraud. To me, it's very clear she committed it. And now we get the news this week, not one, but two grand juries in the Commonwealth in Virginia, first in Norfolk. And now this week in Alexander, Alexandria, which is a blue town. So I'm not sure how we're picking these towns or whether they feel

like they have to choose one or the other, because nothing else makes sense. Virginia does have some red counties, has refused to indict her, Dave, which is so effed up. Because honestly, if you look at what she did, her tax documents completely contradict her mortgage application documents on the use that she says she's going to make of this house. She said, she said, one thing to the mortgage company, and she said the diametrically opposed thing to the tax, well, to the IRS, because she wanted a tax break on the House. And then there's a text from her saying just this year, right before Trump got elected, I better stop claiming it the way I'm claiming it with the IRS. It looks bad. It looks suspicious. And yet Trump cannot get a re-indictment of this

woman because this is just part of the legal challenge that he's facing. Because these grand jurors won't indict her. They've heard her taint that jury pool enough times, and the left taint that jury pool enough times. This, as he can't get his chosen U.S. attorney, Lindsay Halligan, confirmed because she's in a blue state. Neither of those blue state senators will approve her. This is like a Senate practice. It's not a law that you have to get the blessing of the two state senators, you know, U.S. senators from that state. They won't bless her. So, like, he can't get the U.S. attorneys he wants. He can't get the judges through this. that he wants. And then he can't get grand jurors to indict what, honestly, is a clear-cut

case of mortgage fraud, in my view, because they're politicized, too. This is part of what he's up against. Yeah. And like, do we have any doubt that if me or you did the exact same thing, that we wouldn't be indicted for it? If they had text messages of me. Yeah. And so, again, that's the whole thing here. It's like the American system has, like, been perverted by, by, of course, deviating from what true Americanism was supposed to be, which is essentially the Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights. But now it's been perverted into this place where we really live under a system of anarchotirony, which was a term I believe Sam Francis coined, but I really do think it perfectly describes it, where it is kind of, it's like the top and the bottom against the

middle. The middle live under tyranny, the top and the bottom have essentially anarchy, right? Like there are, you could, so in other words, if I'm, if I, if I open a business and I don't follow one regulation to a T, they will crush me. They will crush my business. I will deal with fines. I will deal with all, you know what I mean? Like all types. If I don't, even if you, in many states, if you just defend your business from like a homeless junkie coming into it, they will throw the book at you. That homeless junkie can go lay down on the street.

No one's ever going to touch him. That's at the bottom, right? At the top, you can start a war based off lies, never face any repercussions from that. You can institute torture. You can kill American citizens without charges. You can lie the country into war, undeclared wars, illegal wars. Doesn't matter. Nothing will happen to you.

You can frame the sitting president for treason. In a coordinated way, nobody will ever go to jail for that. Nobody will ever get prosecuted. And then even financially, right? We have a giant welfare state for people at the bottom of our society and a giant welfare state for people at the top of our society. What is Nancy Pelosi's insider trading? That's welfare.

There are all these government programs for billionaires. That's something about welfare, banker bailouts, corporate bailouts. But the guy making 400 grand a year has to pay like 220 grand a year in taxes, you know? The person making like 150 grand a year just gets slammed because they got to pay for the welfare

for the poor people and the welfare for the rich people. And they do pay it. Yeah. And they're super rich aren't paying these taxes. I've told the story before. It came out that Trump paid zero taxes at one point when we finally got a hold of some of his tax returns. And he said, that makes me smart. And you know, you can't argue with it. If you could get away with it, I think we'd all pay zero on taxes. But he's not alone. I know another real estate baron in New York who has never paid tax, never, especially in real estate, you can like declare enough losses that it makes it look like you didn't have any earnings. But you're exactly right. The working stiff who's earning 400 grand a year, which already gets cut, you know, 50% plus if you live in New York City, he's got to pay it. all he doesn't have the clever ways of hiding his income and it all goes to fund these groups you're 100% right yeah it's just it's such an outrage and it's so unsustainable and you know really i i would say this is the core of the whole thing right is that and this is it's so interesting to me because

now democrats their new thing that they've found which does seem to be working in terms of getting elected for them at least in this last election they all ran on unaffordability like that's the big thing which i just love this word unaffordability i would love the opportunity to just like interview mom Donnie and just ask what unaffordability means. What does that mean? Why are things unaffordable? Like what, you know, because it's like you look. How do we get here?

Well, okay, so between, and I don't have these exact numbers in my head, so anyway, you could go look this up though, but it's like between, say from 2008, Barack Obama comes in after the financial recession up until, so Obama through Trump, Biden, back to Trump, we've printed something like 50% of the money that's ever existed in the world. like it's just like trillions and trillions and trillions and trillions of dollars injected into the economy and then we look up and the price of everything is unaffordable well geez megan might that have something to do like so anyway economists already have terms for this it's called currency debasement and price inflation and the the core of the problem here is that we have a government that we cannot even come close to affording we don't have the money for all of this we don't have the money to be the world empire. We don't have the money for these giant entitlement programs. We don't, at this point, one of the biggest line items in the budget is interest on the debt, because we couldn't afford this size of government back then. And so we can't tax the people enough. We can't borrow

enough. And so our only option is to print the money. And now that leads to an unaffordability crisis, where every 20-year-old is coming into a world where there are 100 grand in debt from college. They work at DoorDash, and the average house is going for 600 grand a year. It's an unsustainable. system. And it's the thing that's so criminal about it is that it punishes people for doing the right thing and rewards everybody who does the evil thing. And there's no party objecting to it. We used to have Republicans towing the line on, you know, budget constraints and not overspending. They've completely abandoned that. Definitely under Trump, one and two. And there's no party now. There's like, there's a few Republicans who are still like, no, we can't afford it. But they're in the

minority now. And by the way, we just shifted the analysis during those years to say, oh, actually it doesn't matter. We've changed all of our analysis. It doesn't matter if you just print the money and overspend. There'll be no consequences to it. It's like modern monetary theory and we're weaking what we sell. All right, wait, I have to end it on a positive note. I do have some good news for all of us, which is about Ilan Omar. It starts bad, but then it gets good. She married her brother, allegedly, so that he could get into the country and be here, like an immigration matter. Trump keeps saying that she married her brother so she could get in.

That's not it. She was already in. She was brought in by her dad when she was young, under 18. But she did reportedly, allegedly, marry her own brother so that he could come into the country and then divorced him and got remarried to her own ex-husband, I think is how it went, because this is all a fraud to get her brother here. Now, legal insurrection, which is a great website, tells me, the statute of limitations has run on that claim, that immigration fraud claim with the brother,

if indeed it happened. However, because Tom Homan was on Fox saying that they're looking into this brother thing with Ilan Omar. That's the best news we've heard. I'm thrilled that DHS is actually looking into it. So if the statute of limitations has run on the brother situation, still it should be exposed and documented, there is the possibility that she's still in trouble because now they think Okay, let me just read the following, and they're citing this Matt Tardio on X. Elon Omar claims that she obtained her citizenship when her father was naturalized in 2000, just months before her 18th birthday. But there's a problem.

No record has been found of his naturalization paperwork. In response to a FOIA request for her father's N-400 paperwork filed by A.J. Kern in June of 2023, the National Records Center was unable to locate any filings under his name. question can she be denaturalized and deported if this is substantiated answer yes if fraud was involved in her father's alleged naturalization then her citizenship could be on the chopping block because that would be immigration fraud by the dad that would affect her and that would be a political earthquake dave smith that if she is if she's not a u.s. citizen, she can't be a U.S. House member, and she could be deported. I mean, like, I just want to give you that little nugget going off into the weekend. It might be evil, how excited that prospect makes me. But that really would be something. I mean, geez, what a weird story. Yeah. Well, look, I mean, there's no self-respecting country can put up with people. And don't get me

wrong, I could make our, you know, we've been bombing Somalia for 20 years and hundreds of thousands of people have died in that country and lots of people have fleed overt, you know, like U.S. action. Like, I'm not trying to sound like a lefty here. I'm just a constitutionalist Ron Paul type guy who's like, we shouldn't have been doing that. But no self-respecting country, yes, but no self-respecting country can have a system where anyone from the world can come in and then immediately start lecturing us about how our society is wrong and needs to be overhauled. I just, it's so outrageous. Like to not have a, like, I try to imagine like if everything fell to pieces is here. And I thought my only chance for survival was for my wife and kids was if I could go to

Japan. And then Japan led us in. And then I immediately started telling Japan how racist they are and awful they are and how their whole system needs to be overthrown. It's just, it's intolerable. And so I do, I root for this to happen. It's rude. Think about it. I always think about it like in terms of a dinner party. If somebody came over to your house for a dinner party and immediately started ripping on how you decorated your place on the food that you served, the wine that you offered, you'd never invite them back again. You'd want them out that minute. And this is kind of like that. By the way, to end on a funny note, I once heard a very funny story about Peter Jennings, you know, story news anchor of ABC all those years. And I've heard it directly from somebody who was

with him when it happened. They were, apparently he was like notorious for being a rude dinner guest. And it was post a dinner party. He was still at the host's house. And the good natured attendees were helping the host, like, wash a couple of dishes and just clean up from the table. And I guess they were all standing around, and he was one of them. And they said something, like, did you enjoy yourself? And he was like, oh, yeah, a lovely party, lovely party. The wine you served was just awful. Like, who does that? Who behaves that way, Dave Smith? He lived up to his reputation. Apparently behind the scenes, he was a very rude prick and not someone you'd want over for dinner. Keep it to yourself.

He was a real Elon Omar of his time. In any event, I would keep it to myself. But then I'm not a wine tool. That's what Doug and I call the people who are over the top on their wine. We're not wine tools. We usually like pretty much anything you put in front of us. I started off, honestly, on the Franzia box wine back in my early lawyer days. It was delicious.

Can I tell you? I would take a glass of that happily to this day because I don't have a sophisticated palate. And that is a good thing, not a bad thing. Give you the last word. I agree with you. Sometimes making money and getting sophisticated stuff just ruins you for being able to enjoy what you used to be able to enjoy. I've become a bourbon snob, and it's nothing but a burden on my life. Well, let me put each of this way. You're at a party. They're passing mixed hors d'oeuvres. One is caviar. One is pigs in a blanket. Which one do you go for? Megan, that was a great example.

Pigs in a blanket all day. Come on. A little bit of mustard. Yes, a little like the Dijon mustard, you know. Yellow is fine too, but like top-notch would be Dijon. Yes, the common man roots. That's what makes everybody happy. No one dislikes the craft mac and cheese. These are the things that bring us together in these special holiday moments. Dave Smith, a pleasure. Thanks so much for being here. Now, thank you so much, Megan. And as I've told you privately, I just, I really, really appreciate you just being a voice of reason and being fair throughout kind of this whole last year of craziness. So it's a really, really. a pleasure to talk with you. Thank you. I really appreciate it. And we'll talk again soon. All right, lots of love. We got to go because we're actually catching a train to D.C., and I'll fill you in on what that's all about on Monday. Have a great weekend, and we'll see you then. Thanks for listening to The Megan Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear. You know the holidays are always full of surprises. Here's one. When it comes to religious freedom, you might be surprised

to learn which states rank low on the religious liberty in the state's index. The First Liberty Institute, the nation's leading law firm protecting religious freedom, just released this index, and it ranks all 50 states on how well they protect your right to live out your faith. The results? Hmm, full of surprises. If you have not heard of first liberty, they're different. They've been on the front lines defending religious freedom for nearly 30 years. And when your faith comes under attack, they are first in the fight. And they do it without ever sending their clients a bill. That's right, they do not charge a dime. They have a win rate of over 90% on their cases, including a 9-0 record at the U.S. Supreme

Court. This religious liberty in the state's index is an independent, peer-reviewed study that gives you the real picture of religious liberty across America. Want to see where your state ranks or others do? Get your free copy today at firstliberty.org.org slash Megan. That's first liberty.org slash M-E-G-Y-N. Thank you.