The Megyn Kelly Show - Megyn Kelly's Appearances on Spot On with Link Lauren, Next Up with Mark Halperin, and The Nerve with Maureen Callahan

Episode Date: June 18, 2025

Megyn Kelly brings you her full appearances on the MK Media network's shows "Spot On with Link Lauren," "Next Up with Mark Halperin," and "The Nerve with Maureen Callahan."Riverbend Ranch: Visit https://riverbendranch.com/ | Use promo code MEGYN for $20 off your first order.Jacked Up Fitness: Go to https://GetJackedUp.com and use code MK at checkout to save 10% off your entire purchaseLean: Visit https://TakeLean.com & use code MK20 for 20% off

Hey everyone, it's Megyn Kelly. Today we are bringing you some MK Media highlights that feature my appearances on each of our MK Media shows. I'm helping these guys promote their shows and we're sort of cross-pollinating and it's been super fun and actually really interesting. For me, it's fun to go on their shows and see like what they can do. What kind of an interviewer are they? Something I did not know until they joined the MK media network, which thanks to all of you is just doing so well. I'm super grateful to this audience. I know that you are the ones making these other shows a success and it's just so cool. Just thank you. Uh,

so the hosts of these shows turn the tables on yours. Truly. I was a guest on spot on with link Lauren next up with Mark Halperin and The Nerve with Maureen Callahan. Take a look at our fun combos and go ahead and subscribe to their shows on YouTube and on podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts for free. We'll see you soon. If you haven't heard about Riverbend Ranch, it's time you did. They have just introduced their Riverbend Ranch steaks to the marketplace. Riverbend Ranch raises their beef on beautiful mountain meadows only a few miles from West Yellowstone. Unlike most ranches, Riverbend Ranch never uses growth hormones or antibiotics. They treat their animals humanely and with respect. There are advantages of buying directly from the ranch. They can track the health of every animal from the day it is born and can guarantee that it has been healthy every day of its life. Riverbend Ranch has its own

state-of-the-art processing facility on the ranch that has received several national awards as one of the best in the U.S. But most important is the quality of the beef. They age their beef to perfection for 21 days. You simply cannot buy beef like this in a grocery store. Shipped directly from the ranch to your home, you get a much better price than going through the middleman. Order directly from riverbendranch.com. Use promo code Megan to get 20 bucks off your first order. That's riverbendranch.com, code Megan, and be prepared. Once you taste it, I think you're going to be coming back for more. Again, that's riverbendranch.com, code Megan. Well, this next guest really needs no introduction. Like I told you, she's an icon,

she's a legend, but she looks way too young to be an icon and a legend. We have the one and only host of The Megyn Kelly show, Megyn Kelly herself. She is the reason we are here right now. She is the reason I'm no longer filming videos on my phone with crappy quality. We have a high definition camera. We have a microphone. So Megyn, welcome to the show. We could not be happier to have you. I mean, as usual, Link, you are spot on. Thank you for that lovely introduction. Thank you for being here. We will skip the pleasantries. I was telling the team, we don't need to waste one second of your time. I want to dive into this first topic. There's this young 22-year-old beautiful abortion rights activist named Olivia Juliana. She works with

the DNC. They really highlighted her during the convention. They had her on camera. She was on stage. She works very closely with the DNC. But she's gone viral the last few days because she is their new secret weapon they're using to reach young men. We have a clip. Let's take a look and then discuss. Don't actually spend time talking to young men. You know this because we know each other in real life. But I spent a lot of time on college campuses.

She loves young men. time with young men. I love young men. I love frat guys. And in that, I've realized, like, even the ones that identify as conservative are almost always pro-choice. They're almost always pro-gay marriage. You'd be surprised at the number of them who support a Black Lives Matter. And so I feel like people just kind of lump them into this box when the truth is, again, a lot of them are with us on the issues. They're just not part of our coalition because they feel like they're not welcomed in. Okay, Meghan, we have talked about this for years on the right.

Somehow these folks at the DNC have decided in June of 2025, you know what? Men have left the Democratic Party. They decided to wake up to this fact. Do you think the Democrats are in good hands with this woman at the helm? She says she goes to all these frat houses and young men are fired up about Black Lives Matter. I've never met a young man who is fired up about Black Lives Matter, Megan. Oh, I wonder what fraternities these could possibly be. Speaking on behalf of all Syracuse University graduates, there isn't one there that would be open-minded to Juliana coming in to discuss her views on abortion and BLM. I mean, this is ridiculous. Is this their answer? As Republicans and right-minded independents, I think we can

heave a huge sigh of relief if this is the solution to their problem. I mean, this is so like, it's so funny to me that they need to study. They need to study young men to try to figure out how to speak to them. You know, the New York Times had that article where they were saying, we've got to take a hard look at the syntax Republicans are using in dealing with young men, because that's the way into their hearts. Well, why don't you stop saying you don't hire men? We don't have to go all that deep. We don't need $20 million on a focus group. How about removing the effective sign from outside of all of corporate America that says we don't hire white and we don't hire white men? That might really open up some avenues for you with voters. I mean, it's just absolutely absurd that they're spending time with this woman.

And by the way, not for nothing, no offense to Juliana, but if you really want to make inroads with young college age men, I think you'd be hiring somebody who could be like on one of those commercials for the big hamburgers that used to be on the Super Bowl all the time. You're like, you need one of those girls who could have like a hose on her while she eats a big cheeseburger. I don't know why it works with the young men. I like someone will have to explain it to me, but I know it does. No, they need someone from like a Carl's Jr. Super Bowl commercial. That's what I've been saying. It's always the I said this the other day on a show.

These abortion activists who are saying we need more abortion clinics, more Planned Parenthood. We are pro-choice, pro-choice, pro-choice. They never have any romantic prospects. They look like Chewbacca. No one's going near them. So I'm like, I think you're safe being an abortion rights activist. I think you are good. But you brought up this article that we saw last week in the New York Times, $20 million

to study how young men speak. Why don't you go sit down and talk to Charlie Kirk? Why don't you actually talk to young men? I think young men are also tired of apologizing for their masculinity. And in the left, they just don't feel welcome. And you're raising young boys who are becoming men. What advice do you give to your young men as they're going out into the world? Because it's such a polarizing environment now, if you ask a girl out at the water cooler, she could turn around and say, you made me feel uncomfortable, right? It seems like there's this almost overcorrection now where a lot of guys don't feel comfortable doing anything. No, I worry about that environment for them. I mean,

they're still young. My kids are young, so they haven't yet had to cross these bridges. But I do worry about that stuff. Like the crazy me too googly eyed women who think anybody who doesn't ask for permission before they lean in for a kiss is the equivalent of a Harvey Weinstein. I mean, these women are nuts. I mean, I would say to any mother or father of young boys, go on offense. If your son gets, you know, any inkling that he's in a Me Too situation over a nothing burger like the one I just outlined, you got to go on offense. You should send your son first to the dean to say,

I'm being wrongfully disparaged by this woman, you know, saying to her friends on this or on the other thing after a completely consensual activity. You know, like I would never let somebody do that to my kid, and I don't think anybody should allow it to happen to theirs. I do think that, like, part of the huge problem the Democrats have with young men is the wokeism. And so it's like the irony of her saying they're pro-BLM. That's bullshit. But by the way, if they're saying they're pro-BLM, they're literally just saying it. They're saying it because they've been told

they have to say, okay, I'm pro-BLM and they have to post the black square on my Instagram or I'm canceled before I even get my first job. So she's too dumb to realize that it's just, you know, it's proactive, it's prophylactic. So secondly, I watch my kids go through this every other week at a non woke school is Women's History Month, African-American History Month, Native American History Month, Pride Month. Now we're in like truly the kids are like, oh, they don't feel any of these. They don't feel like I'm really super into black history now.

Tell me more about the great women of America and what they've done. They're like, oh, and it's not just my kids who have grown up with my husband and me being like that. It's all of them. They're all pretending. But these morons in the Democrat Party want to keep pushing it and, you know, study syntax instead. Right. I mean, I would love to see your son bring home a liberal girl with blue hair. I would love to see the dinner table if they brought home a liberal. But you also mentioned something.

I remember the night you endorsed President Trump. And we don't have a clip. I'm just thinking about this now. The night you endorsed President Trump, I remember you turned around to the guys in hard hats and you said, what kind of society can we have? How as women can we feel protected if our men are being beaten down and they're not being taken care of? And I thought that really encapsulated this issue with the Democratic Party right now. tired of seeing their girlfriends, their daughters, their wives having their bathrooms infiltrated or their sports teams infiltrated. You look at someone like Peyton McNabb, right? They are tired of seeing their girls getting beat up. And it's why they're leaving the Democratic Party, because they're tired of the nonsense. Don't you think that's a part of it, that they have this desire to protect the homeland, to protect the women in their lives, the guys who have balls?

Yes. You know what? Last night, my kids are now on summer vacation. So we stayed up late on a Sunday night. We were watching Zero Dark Thirty. Remember the movie? Oh, I love that movie. Yes. It was Jessica Chastain. It's so good. Yeah, that shows how they caught bin Laden. And it was, you look at that movie. Yes, it completely shows what a heroine this still unnamed CIA agent was, the female agent, so that's great. But like those badasses at the end when you've got like the Navy SEALs getting on board, those Black Hawk helicopters, they weren't Black Hawks,

but they were, you know, stealth helicopters to go to Abbottabad. That's like badass, amazing, hot masculinity at its finest, right? Like those are men. And every man has that piece in him, that sort of the protector, fighter, don't F with me or my family or my country mentality.

It gets beaten out of them by a woke, submissive, weird left that's decided to just, that it's not attractive to be a true man anymore. And I mean, no woman wants that. No, even gay man wants that, right? It's like, we miss our real men. So I think, right. Like, it's like, I don't know. I feel like the more we encourage what's a natural instinct in virtually every single man alive, which is to be a protector, to be a fierce protector and a warrior, the better off we'll be. The better off the Democrat party would be,

but they've lost the ability to connect with that at all. Their entire thing is the weird Birkenstock wearing man bun, Merce wearing guy who's super effeminate and in touch with his feelings, which is not attractive. And it's not attractive to be. It's not only, it doesn't attract the opposite sex. It doesn't attract men to the party because they don't want to associate with that. And it's incongruous with their own God-given instincts. Absolutely. No, I think these men are just tired of apologizing. Their masculinity is toxic. If they try to explain something, they're mansplaining. If they're sitting comfortably, they're manspreading. There's always just this negative lean to everything on the left.

But speaking of a man who's also been beaten down into a show, we have to move on to Prince Harry, the Duke of White Castle, the Duke of Waffle House. He and Meghan Markle, the wannabe duchess, okay, the Duchess of Sun Damage. She's back in the news today because there's some new articles out. I just wanted to run through some of them quickly because we had a real deep top of the show with the horrific violence yesterday in Boulder. We just wanted to have some fun with you and discuss Harry and Meghan. So there's this article that came

out that Meghan Markle really did expect Harry to be a billionaire when she met him. She was incredibly disappointed to find out he's only worth a couple million and she's going to have to actually work and hawk these jams and jellies and dog biscuits to have the lifestyle that she wants. I personally think, and I'd love to get your take on this, I think Meghan would leave Harry in a second if a billionaire would scoop her up. I think she'd be in divorce court tomorrow if like an Elon wanted to take her out. But I don't think a lot

of billionaires want a 45, 46-year-old duchess with multiple marriages and all that baggage. Megan, what do you think? I completely agree. And by the way, she's already gotten the benefit of her bargain with Harry because she got the title. That's what she wanted. She wanted to be world famous.

She wanted the title. You remember when Harry was single, he was the elephant. He was the one, the most eligible bachelor on earth. You could be a royal. You could become world famous overnight. You could live in a castle. You could have access to the crown jewels. You would be a princess. My God, yes, he could have had his pick, except for the people who weren't PR whores, because like his prior girlfriends broke up with him, at least the last two reportedly, because they did not want this lifestyle.

They actually didn't want to be famous. They wanted like a normal life where they could just fall in love for real and raise a family. But this woman is nothing but a publicity whore. It's a term of art. And she, you know, we broke the news that she had Prince Harry on her vision board when she was younger. And that was her goal, hashtag goal, to marry Prince Harry. So it was all about getting the title. She's done that now. Now she's just stuck with this depressed ginger who has absolutely no family, no friends, and no money.

This was not hashtag part of the plan. So what is she supposed to do now? Now, if she's smart, and she is that, she's very savvy, she will find a way to bounce past him to some other taker who might actually just love the guy. She will take her royal kids who can still go by prince and princess and find the billionaire, like you say, who actually will just keep her in the manner to which you'd like to become accustomed. But as you point out, it gets trickier because these billionaires can sense one thing. When you're not looking for a partner, you're looking for a solution.

And that's obviously the lane that Meghan Markle's in now. She doesn't make really her own money. This whole Netflix thing is just a ruse. We all know this is made up just to give her something to do. Her miraculous renewal for her second season, which was already shot in full by the time the first season was done,

meaning they just made some extra episodes and decided to roll out a fake second season as a PR plan. Hasn't fooled anybody. Now they're saying they're not even sure if she's going to make more jam. That thing's already dwindling on the vine. Everything she touches turns to shit. And I think every sort of creative person behind her

or deep pocket behind her knows it's an extraordinary risk. She's too toxic to touch. Absolutely. So speaking of the reality show, The Cooking Show, I saw the same story. She's already tired of selling the jams and jelly. She's like, well, we might restock in 2026. I think there's no demand. I also think she's lazy. I don't think she wants to work. She should actually run for Congress as a Democrat like Jasmine Crockett because they don't want to work. They want to twerk and sit around and film videos. So I think she should actually run for office because Meghan Markle, you're lazy. So we also have a clip from her reality show.

She posted a deleted scene where she's showing some bizarre pineapple hat. Let's take a look and then talk about it. A trick that people do with pineapple instead of just cutting it to make the perfect little bite, you follow the wedge. When nature has given you all the cues on how to have a perfect taste of something. Oh, how fun is that? I love it. This woman is being paid millions of dollars to show how to cut into a pineapple. Also, I thought the pineapple was the international symbol for swingers. I think maybe she was like symbolizing she's down to party, down to have some fun. Are you taking cooking advice from Meghan Markle in the kitchen?

Oh, my God. I mean, let me tell you this. Like, first of all, there's a reason that was deleted. She really should go with her producer's instincts. Okay. Second of all, who the hell is sated by one tiny little bite of pineapple? The reason we cut it, the way we do is because you eat it almost like a watermelon or at least half a watermelon slice. It's very sweet, but you want a little more, just one little bite. That's like having one little handful of popcorn. It's impossible. Nobody wants to do it that way. Once again, proving how unrelatable she is. No, I wouldn't take any of the advice on her show. Maureen, as you know,

Callahan and I tried to recreate this thing. And the only thing that was good that she actually did was the one-pot pasta, which she very clearly stole word for word from Martha Stewart. And unbeknownst to me, because I don't cook, this is apparently one of Martha Stewart's famous recipes. So she wasn't even clever in her apparent thievery. She just stole it, relabeled it her own, and then tried to act like she'd come up with this cool one pot chicken thing. After that, it was just taking pretzels from one bag and pouring them into another. And by the way, I have a never before heard secret about her show and our recreation of the show.

She decided to make microwave popcorn by putting an ear of corn into the microwave. And magically it popped perfectly. And then she put those kernels into a little bag. Oh, so cute. And I remember watching this thinking, there's no way that actually works. But then when we did it,

my producer gave me a little ear of corn. We put it in there and it worked perfectly. I'm like, my God, maybe this is the thing. No, you know what? It's a thing. They take these little ears of corn and they treat them with chemicals that make them pop perfectly. So now you've got chemical laden popcorn. You could have just gone with Orville Redenbacher, who already did all this work for you, without trying to pretend that you're making homemade popcorn at home.

No, everything is a lie. Also, don't tell Michelle Obama that you don't cook. You might be in good company. So they're telling me we have two minutes. I want to get to one last woman who is also insufferable, and she's in the news right now, that is Taylor Swift. So Taylor Swift bought her master's back for $300 million. We're happy she has her music back. If you're not in the weeds in the music industry, no one cares that much. But we had this discussion last night, my team, do we think Taylor Swift's clout is down, right? She lost all her awards at the Grammys, every American Music Award. She also endorsed Kamala Harris. That went terribly for her. Do you think this is her low moment? Is she down in the weeds, Megan? Is Taylor Swift kind of over? Yeah, I think she is. And she did it to herself. She got political.

There was no reason for it. You look around at the like Hollywood actresses and the movie stars and the singers who choose not to get political. And they're either very smart Democrats or they're Republicans, right? Like, because Republicans know they can't come out with their politics because they'll get, you know, loathed and canceled by their industry. And very smart Democrats know, as the Michael Jordan rule says it, Republicans buy sneakers too, and Democrats buy sneakers too. And why would you alienate half your fan base? It's not worth it. You know, I was recently told, for example, Renee Zellweger keeps her politics very quiet for a reason. She's from Texas. You can figure it out from there. But Taylor Swift thought she was too big for the rules to

apply to her. And as it turns out, she's subject to the rules of gravity, just like every other human on earth, no matter how much she can fool 14 year old girls into thinking she's some sort of a role model, even though her entire history is getting dumped by a series of men and not to land into a marriage or a family by the time she's in her mid to late 30s. So Taylor Swift thought the rules didn't apply to her

and that she could get political, that she could not only get political and endorse Kamala, but actually tell the world that the reason she was endorsing him is because of tampon Tim Walz and their weird stance on LGBTQ issues, which includes transing children and seizing custody of them

from parents who will not support the alleged transition. That's Tim Walz for you. And he was the reason she endorsed. So yeah, it cost her. And guess what? The whole country, there's a groundswell behind Republicans, conservatism, conservatism, whatever. I can't speak too early. And President Trump, President Trump's more popular than ever. And the Republican Party is too. There are new data out on that today. So she chose the wrong team. So like Oprah, she had her heyday, it's over. And now she's coming to grips with the reality that her opinion politically means nothing. No one gives a shit. She might be able to sing the occasional cute little bubbly song

that's meaningful to a teenager, just like Oprah might be able to sing the occasional cute little bubbly song that's meaningful to a teenager, just like Oprah might be able to fool somebody in her 70s that she's still as relevant as she was in the 90s. But regular people know these are not people we should be listening to for advice or their talk shows or frankly, let's face it, with Taylor, her music either. Hallelujah. I couldn't have said it better myself. I think Taylor Swift's sort of 2015 girl boss feminism. She hasn't realized the culture has moved on. If she really wants to protect women, it's not Kamala Harris. It's President Trump who's trying to get men out of women's sports and secure the border. So we don't have another Lake and Riley or Jocelyn Nangari.

I think if Taylor Swift really had some gumption, she would have come out on the right side of history. But it's why she got her ass handed to her. So I'm on your show tomorrow. Maybe we can break down some more of this. But we are so grateful to have you. I could not be more grateful. I was telling everyone, this is an A-list booking. Oh, my God.

We have Megyn Kelly coming on the show. This is a big booking, everybody. So we are so grateful. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And I'll see you in 24 hours. So happy to do it.

So happy for your success. Everybody is loving the show. They email me and at me directly. And truly, like it's genuine, huge enthusiasm for you. Sky's the limit. Can't wait to see what you do. Thank you so much. More and more Americans are prioritizing their health

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Go to getjackedup.com and sign up for their free training program. And when you're ready to purchase your own Power Rack Pro X, use our promo code MK to save 10% at checkout. That's GetJackedUp.com. All right, next up with us is the woman I call the fairy godmother of MK Media. And when I say fairy godmother, I mean godmother like Marlon Brando, godfather. Tough but fair. Megan Kelly, welcome to Next Up. The pleasure's all mine. Thanks for having me. I'm going to take the opportunity to, in public, do what I've done in private, which is thank you for bringing me on to be part of this. Why does the world now have the MK Media Network? Oh, I mean, the honor is mine, Mark. I'm thrilled to be in partnership with you. You know, it was one of those things where the show was doing very well and we were thrilled with that, but I had so many stars coming

on regularly who I absolutely loved hearing from. And I thought it'd be great to help them get out there more. And we've kind of figured out how to market the show, how to get clips out, how to make sure like the show gets the attention that it deserves. And then the audience will decide whether they like the content that we started discussing internally. How can we help our favorites do the same thing? And that's where you came in. All right. Well, again, very grateful to you. And to the extent we're off to a fast start, I would attribute it at a very high percentage to you and your colleagues who have showed us how to do it. So thank you. Halperin's rule of interviewing, I try to ask the people questions they've never been asked before, at least not in public.

Okay, that's a tough one. Let's see how I do. I know it's going to be tough, but I think I might be able to do it. First of all, I find that the people who are the most successful on camera are great broadcasters, as you are, but also great television producers. Tell me what you know about how to be a great television producer. What are the hallmarks of being a great TV producer? Well, I mean, there's so many, but I will say number one, I do think, and this is kind of a compliment to both myself and you, I think I'm a very good spotter of talent. I think I have, I don't know if it's all those years I spent with Roger under his wing or what, but I definitely have an eye for who will work and resonate with an audience and who will not. And I've almost never been wrong on that. So that's good. That's like cool water over a hot brain. I want the audience to never have to work for it.

I want it to be seamless. It comes into their brain effortlessly. They walk away understanding it without ever having had to try to hit the 15-second rewind to stop and say to the husband or wife, what was that? To define any small term that may even arguably be confusing. And the audience, if they know it, will forgive you that, you know, five second explanation. And if they don't, they'll be forever grateful to you for not assuming they did. I've got pet peeves that are weird. Like I don't really like running soundbites more longer than 60 seconds. I hate when people put graphics on the screen that don't match what the anchor is saying. It is the most annoying thing in broadcasting.

Like, don't pop up some tweet somebody said or posted while the anchor's speaking. The brain doesn't know what to do. Do I listen to this anchor? Do I read with my eyes what this post is? Little things like that that have just, you know, come to me over the years that I think help give the audience a pleasant experience while they're watching the show, whether they know it or not. And then conversely, people who don't do these things are giving the audience an unpleasant experience. And the audience doesn't really actively know why. They just know I don't enjoy it and they don't come back.

Spoken like a great TV producer. All right. Believe it or not, we're 48, only 48 hours past your interview with Jake Tapper and Alex Thompson and the release of their book. One of the things I tell anchors who I work with or young people who want to be in TV, a list of questions is not a strategy. If you're doing an interview, you need a strategy. What was your strategy when you were interviewing Jake Tapper and Alex Thompson? Well, I did go back and forth on how should I start it? Should I start it by getting into the facts of the book or should I start it by really pushing him on whether he's the right messenger?

And in the end, it just didn't feel like, I knew I had to get to pushing him on whether he's the right messenger. That could not be sacrificed. We only had 40, well, we had one hour plus 14 minutes with him, one hour with some breaks plus 14 minutes. And so I just, it was, that was the priority, get to that. And then whatever time we had left, I would do the substance of the book in. And so that made sense to me. And

then there was a question of how hard should I push him? Because we are friends, we're not like tight friends, but we're friends. We've been friendly, I guess is a better way of saying it for some 15 years now. I've never done anything social with Jake, but we like each other. So it was kind of awkward. I think he knew, because in the booking process, he and I had been in touch, that I was going to push him. And he told me before the interview, he wanted that because he wanted to answer the tough questions for all of his skeptics. So I felt like we were on a good ground to really for me to go for it. Maybe maybe it was like an eight and a half when he thought it might be a six and a half. I'm not sure. We I think we're fine. But you know how it is. It's like you have to go with the flow when

the person comes on and see if they're pushing back, if they're giving it up. You know, if he had rolled over more right at the top, it wouldn't have been as contentious as it got. Right. We were going to play a two-minute soundbite from the interview, but I'm told anything longer than a minute's a bad idea, so we won't. I mean, to be honest, I do make exceptions. It depends. All right.

Maybe we'll roll in some here, two minutes or so. Megan. That's what happened. If we're going to do this, let's just stick to the facts here, OK? When there is a damaging report. Jake, that's what I've been doing all along. One of us didn't miss the biggest story of the century when it comes to presidential politics. And one of us did.

If you hadn't done the interview and Jake, as your friend, called you afterwards and said, hey, how'd I do with that interviewer? How would you say Jake did in his interview with you? Well, I'll be totally honest. I thought he could have done better. Jake, when he's more relaxed, is much more conversational. And I thought in our interview he sounded almost affected a bit, you know, like almost like he was trying to be professorial and maintain his cool. And he kept repeating that thing. I look back on my coverage with humility, which sounded PR tested and not really authentic.

There's a reason it sounded PR tested. Yeah, I know. And I just think like that's the problem. It's not just Jake's problem. It's a problem with a lot of people who are stuck in the cable news universe, which is they're not their authentic selves when they're on camera. You know, Jake is actually a pretty relaxed guy in your personal interactions with him. I do like him. It's just on camera, not everybody can do it. And when they're feeling on their heels, not everybody can do it. He would have been much better served by just completely owning I'm embarrassed right up top and putting it in his own words so he could really fill it out and convince people of it. How convincing do you find his argument that he acknowledges he missed the story, but that there was no way for him to actually get the story?

I don't believe it. I don't believe that. I think he did have the sources. And I just think everyone went along because they liked the lie. They were perfectly happy with the lie. You know, Jake is articulating it perfectly now about how Trump was viewed as an existential threat. And when that's how you see your opponent, any many means are justified, except he's still not admitting he was part of that. And that like he talked about how he didn't see what Laura Trump saw, what I saw, what you saw. And one question I wish I had asked him was, why not?

Have you spent any time trying to figure out why you didn't see it? Because I would submit he's not a Trump fan and it colored his judgment and it's probably still coloring his judgment right now. Yeah. I mean, again, you and I single-eyed Jake because he wrote the book, but what we're saying about him is true of thousands of people, literally, that you and I know in newsrooms across the country. Senator Cotton is going to be here later. He put out a video in 2020 showing Joe Biden's loss of mental capacity and saying this is a real danger to the country. And I just think they can't answer the question, how can you say you didn't see it? Not were you in private meetings or off camera during an interview, but just watching the public

performance of Joe Biden in the 2020 campaign, I just don't see how they can say they missed it or they didn't see it or they didn't have the sources. It was right there. Well, this is one of the things I like about you, Mark, is you are able to report on both sides objectively, no matter what your personal preferences. And I feel like I can do that, too. Obviously, I'm a Trump supporter. I endorsed the man and spoke at his rally, but I can still hit him. I can see when he does things that are controversial. He didn't speak to me for eight months in 2023 because I did raise some comments about Trump. He kept calling Biden Obama and is making references to World War III. And I pointed out he didn't like that. That's, you know, if you're doing your job right, they are going to dislike you, these politicians, even if you happen in a little bit. But I know you have a lot of,

I'm pretty sure I have a lot of thoughts on this. You mentioned before authenticity and how we look at our friends who are not unshackled as we are. They're not an independent media and they're not their authentic selves on camera or in their writing. Why not? Why can't they be unshackled on cable news or on broadcast television news? What is it that keeps them from doing what you and I are able to do now so freely? Well, I think there's many answers to that. One is, if you, most of these people are Ivy League, you know, elite institution educated folks who, they've had a lifetime of good approval and coloring within the lines and making it in the proper spaces. And so that cultivates a certain, you know, I don't know,

unwillingness to show vulnerability. They're only used to getting perfect A's and pat it on the head. Playing by the rules. Yeah. It takes a fair amount of courage, frankly, to get rid of that veneer. Many did not come up under somebody like Ailes who saw that in me, even though I'm not an elite institution person, early on. But I was trying to be a perfectionist, saying that doesn't work on television, and the audience can smell a phony from a mile away. And so I was given permission by my boss to let my guard down. And I did. But even then, I think people would say that you could see a big difference between me today and me while I was on Fox. There's some constraints in the cable news universe on just how much of yourself you can and should show. The whole system's set up to be supportive of the platform, not exactly the anchor. and surface level and cable, you don't have two hours to sit there

and just meander and like think aloud and have a funny moment and drop a swear if it's authentic to you. You know, it's like the whole system's set up to keep you in a box. Yep. And so many of them, and you see this everywhere, they're just reading the prompter

and they're waiting for the break and then they're waiting for the next break and then they're waiting for the show to end so they can leave. There's no sense of, I'm so excited to be here with my audience. I'm so excited to talk to you. And that that's true of younger anchors and reporters. But it's true of some of the very experienced people. They're not they don't seem to be actually in the moment enjoying what they're doing. And so it seems inauthentic. It's true. And not just that,

but Brit Hume used to say to me, there are a lot of news actresses in this business. You're not one of them. Right. But it's true for men, too. They're news actors, too. These are like people who are failed Hollywood wannabes who settled for TV so they could see their mugs on television and feel important. And they're not excited to be there. They just want to be a star. So for them, it's about a performance as opposed to, oh, my gosh, I'm excited about the news. I can't wait to talk to you about the news, which I think is closer to how you feel about it. And me, too. Either I'm excited about it or I'm

I need the show as my therapy. It's a catharsis to set the record straight on what's out there. Right. So you mentioned Brit. I had the honor of sitting next to Brit in the ABC News White House booth for the first year or so of the Clinton administration. And Brit is one of the, I'd say, the top five people I learned from about broadcast television, how to be a broadcaster, but Jack Anderson. And he said Jack Anderson told him that when you called someone on the phone to try to get an interview with them, and back then you had to call someone's landline and assistant would answer. And the assistant would say, may I tell Mr. So-and-so what it's in reference to? Brit said, Jack Anderson, time to say mouth decents. And he said they always called back. I learned a lot from Britt, including humor. And that's what I want to ask you about next. Because I study successful broadcasters and I think about what are the elements of their

brand? What is it that people find appealing? And I listen to what people say they find appealing about you. You know, you're interesting, you're honest, you're authentic. You have a great nose for news. You know where the interesting stuff is, but you're hilarious. Okay. Your, your, your, your show is so funny. You are so funny. And so first I'm, I'm wondering what your comedy inspirations are, either people in news or they're comedians you like who, whose style you, you, you maybe emulate or think about and animate you?

That's very nice of you to say. Thank you. I would say, no, there's, I mean, I love comedy and I love comedians, but there's nobody I style myself after. I would just say I come from a long line of funny people. They come by it naturally. And maybe some small percentage of that has rubbed off on me. My Nana was hilarious. My mom is very funny. My brother's hysterical. And maybe some small percentage of that has rubbed off on me. My Nana was hilarious. My mom is very funny. My brother's hysterical. And it was just, you know, it's like one of those Irish Catholic things where you sit around the kitchen table and you just mock each other mercilessly for your whole lives. So it comes naturally. And the news is just so ripe for humor. If you can keep that arm's distance between yourself and it, then, you know, it's one of those many days laugh or cry things.

But I don't think I would enjoy the news anywhere as much as I do if I couldn't laugh at the absurdity of it. And I think that's one of the things that's helped me over the years. I remember one time the New York Times was doing a profile on my show when I was at Fox in primetime. And I gave her a quote at the end of the show saying something like, we talked about ISIS and men in cages. I mean, it was the worst of the ISIS times. And we had a lot of laughs. And somehow, you know, we were able to do that in our 42 minutes of content on the air here and there. And now, you know, here I try to do the same. You know, you got to keep laughing. about not current day comedians but like lucille ball joan rivers uh ernie kovacs who's like a classic comedian whose style and i love joan rivers i absolutely adore joan rivers um i know there's so many i mean andrew schultz right now is so funny he's so raunchy but hilarious i absolutely love him um tim dillon's hysterical you know i love uh sebastian moniscalco um jim brewer he's so

good. I like, you know, I like a little raunchy, a little off-color for sure. There have been a lot. I love the comedy cellar. I go there. Noam's a great guy, so more of that the better. And just grew up watching those shows, you know, like MASH. We watch that all the time. The Jeffersons.

All these classic comedies that were on in our house growing up. Growing up and when you started in news, do you consider yourself to be a funny person? I wouldn't go that far. I would say I have a very healthy sense of humor, but I don't really think I'm actively funny. I mean, I'm good for a laugh here or there. I'm going to build a clip reel of your funniest moments from the last two weeks, and I think I'll be able to make the compelling case that you are a very funny person. All right. When you think about just broadcasting skills, who have you learned from?

Who is either by example or instruction, who has taught you how to be a great broadcaster? Well, I would definitely say Britt's been a huge influence, same as you point out. He taught me the nuts and bolts of being a good reporter and being relentlessly factual and upgrading your information, keeping it tight, all that. And just never stop questioning the lines in your report. Can they be better? Can they be tighter? Can they be more right than they are right now? And his wife, Kim, too, is a mentor. Britt's one of the best TV script writers in the history of the medium. Yeah. And merciless in a great way. You know, that's what I hope my team would say about me. I'm merciless in a great way too, I think, because I don't let up on them. You know, we're working on this AM update show,

which we do every day. And my poor producer, I love her. She's great, but I'm just relentless on her. Like, no, no, no, we can, we can upgrade, we can do better. But it's, it's toward service of the audience. That's how Britt was. In terms of role models, there's nobody better in my view. Like there's the person I admired most. He's no longer with us, but by far was Mike Wallace. I just thought that's it right there. That's how it should be done with charisma and fortitude and the willingness to challenge anybody, but in a way where you could get away with it. You know, like you didn't have to emerge with a jugular, but you kind of did. But still, there was a gentlemanly dynamic between Wallace and most of his guests,

which I admired. It's very, very tricky. So I really loved him. Did you spend time with him or that's just studying him on camera? Just studying him. I didn't. I mean, I know his son, Chris Wallace, fairly well or did when I was at Fox, but loved him. When I was very young, I loved Oprah and the young Oprah was great. She was a great, great, great interviewer.

That was before she got completely drunk on her own wine, became hard partisan. And then now in today's day and age has totally overestimated her current day relevance. So my love affair with the old Oprah is over, but it doesn't diminish her early work and how talented she was. I totally agree. If you go back and look, even when she was in Baltimore as a local anchor, she was an incredible communicator and her sense of how to communicate and sort of engage the audience was phenomenal. Is there anybody today on the air who you think is a very compelling broadcaster? Well, I like Jesse Waters on Fox a lot. That's the one show that's on TV news, like cable news right now, that I would watch. I can't think of anyone else.

What would you list as Jesse's brand besides humor is obviously a big part of it. Yeah, and he too knows what the news target is. He's good at finding himself right over the proper target and approaches it with cleverness and factual backup. And he's pretty fearless, which is important in today's day and age. All right. How am I doing asking you questions you've never been asked? 50%.

You're doing very well. All right. Here we go. Let's keep going. This is what we call the rapid round human interest section. Who is living you've never met who you'd like to meet and why? Living never met. I mean, I'm sorry, but it's Meghan Markle. She and I need to sit down across from one another and we will break the internet. Can I come to that? Yes. I'll be your graphics PA, or I'll help with hair and makeup. I would like to be there for that. Literally everybody would watch that.

Have you come close to meeting her? Well, I should have gone. I was in the Time 100 this year, and she was too, which is also ridiculous. And they invited me to go to this summit the day before, where they interview you

about how important you are, and I said no, and naturally she said yes. So we could have crossed paths if I had just been more self-aggrandizing. Do you have your booking request in? I gotta be honest. I haven't actually submitted that because the futility of it seems obvious. So, well, so you're saying the person you'd most like to meet, you haven't even asked to meet, even though you could.

No, no. It's one of those things where it might be too important to me to continue to be able to make fun of her. Like, I don't know if I could make up or like patch things up or somehow be wooed by her, Mark, because being able to mock her

is too important to me. I've never met her, but I think the chances that she would melt your heart and win you over are de minimis. I think you're right. That's what I would say. All right, what's a place

you've never been that you'd like to go and why i'd love to go to japan uh i've never been to japan i've never been in asia and you know where else though domestically i've never been to the pacific northwest never never seattle portland these these are massive holes megan i know i know i haven't had a lot of time. I've been to Japan like 25 times. What? It's my favorite place in the world. No.

Let's all go. Let's take the kids and I'll show you around. Let's make it an MK Media excursion. Best architecture, best food, best service economy. It's an incredible place. Yeah, it's definitely on my bucket list. All right. All right. It takes a little while to get there, by the way.

That's what I hear. All right. What is the greatest movie of all time? I mean, are we talking my favorite or just definitively the greatest movie? Your favorite. Greatest for you. What is your favorite movie?

My favorite movie of all time is Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory. The original. I'm obsessed. I've never even seen the imitations. I refuse. How are you at imitating Wonka near the final scene when Charlie walks in and he says, good day, sir. Can you do that?

He says, you bumped into the ceiling, which now has to be cleaned and sterilized so you get nothing. You lose. He says, good day shines a good deed in a weary world yeah that's a sweet moment are you so in love with that movie that you can differentiate between the oompa loompas or they're all pretty much the same i can differentiate i've actually spoken with one of the oompa loompas if you must know and i watched the whole movie four years ago next to the real Veruca Salt, Julie Dawn Cole, who's now all grown up and living in London. And she came to my hotel and we watched it together. We decorated the whole thing with Willy Wonka apparatus and we kicked balloons together like she does in that one scene. Is there a video of that? Is there a video of that? Yes, I'll give it to you. You can lay it in here. I'd like to see that.

Lay it in here. We sang her song, I Want It All. I mean, I peaked. That was it. I had peaked. It was my 50th birthday present. All right. Based on that, I think I might know the answer, but let's say Charlie was not eligible to win. Of the other kids, who was most deserving? Oh, wow. Well, no, it wasn't Veruca, for sure. She was the worst. Not Augustus. Arguably. I guess I'd have to go with Mike TV. I mean, what did he do?

Mike TV just watched a bunch of TV. Like, that's really not so bad. How's your Mike TV imitation? I'm trying to think. He had a lisp, so you'd have to incorporate that. Yeah. Dad says I can't have a real one. Not to your 12, son. Something like that.

Not bad. Did you have a favorite of the grandparents? Well, of course, it's Grandpa Joe. I mean, the other three just sat in the bed. They didn't even try to get up, so that was sad. But I do love the parents who are brought along on the tour inside the Wonka factory. You know, there's little lines that I just constantly throw out like Rachmaninoff, you know, like, you boil him up. I know it. There's so many great ones from that that I could recite the whole thing from memory when I watch it. You know, like I know every line and the bargain that my family makes with me is don't do that. Stop doing that. It's annoying. I believe I remember correctly, you do not fancy yourself a singer. Am I right about that? No, no. I think I have a decent speaking voice and I have an absolutely terrible singing voice.

All right. The last thing I'll say about Wonka is when the elevator breaks through the roof, I chills every time it happens. Every time I watch it, just chills. Well, Mark, and you know what else is so great? I mean, it's just,

there's so much to love about the movie. I mean, I think one of the reasons I love it so much is because I watched it when I was a kid, and I watched it a lot after my dad died when I was 15, and it kind of reminds me of a time where, I don't know,

I was just feeling connected with my family. Yeah. And, it's about the, you know, terrible people getting their comeuppance and good people getting rewarded for their goodness. So there's a basic morality to it as well. But the last line of the movie is Wonka saying to Charlie Bucket, don't forget what happens to the boy who suddenly got everything he always wanted. He lived happily ever after.

Yeah. And I think about that all the time. Like, if you just persevere, right? If you are a good person, if you don't chase false gods, if you just live by your own moral code to the best of your ability, I believe that last line. I believe it's possible. It's the Wonka life lesson.

All right, two more Wonka things. First, I am so loyal to the original in general, and I have no use for the what's that guy's name? Johnny Depp. No use to Johnny Depp, but I will tell you Chalamet is pretty good. If you don't consider it

a blight on the original, Chalamet is pretty good. Last thing, I love to play the equivalent, the equivalent of the newlywed game between anchors and their producers. I love to see when they,

so here's my question. We're doing that with just one question. Will Steve Krakauer say after this, I can't believe Mark wasted 10 minutes talking about Wonka

or will he say, this thing is awesome, it's going to go viral? Which do you think Steve will say? The latter. He'll love it. He'll love it? Okay.

Steve, are you on? Steve, are you on steve are you there i'm chime in i can't wait to find out all right last two because we're up against the clock as happens even even on the internet what was the biggest break of your career and i don't want you to say when you fox hired you because that's too easy besides no it wasn't it that wasn't the biggest break anyway it was um when i had when i had made a resume tape, but no one knew who I was. I had no connections in news. I was just a frustrated lawyer. I didn't know what to do. And I had one of those moments where I was like, I'm never going to get into news. I'm 32, which I thought was old.

And I'm like, I know nobody. And then one day, Mark, I stayed home and I almost never, ever call in sick to work during my law career or as a TV broadcaster. I really genuinely have to be throwing up all day for me not to go to work. And I was. And I had on Lifetime Television, Mark Halperin. Yes, it's true. I was living in Baltimore, Maryland, and I watched the Jessica Savage story on Lifetime TV. And it was that story of this amazing broadcaster who came up in the time of Connie Chung, who made it in a man's world when it was impossible to do so. And she did it. And I thought, you know what? If she could do it then, why can't I do it now? And I started cold calling news directors. And it was Bill Lord, who is the news director at WJLA,

the ABC affiliate in Washington, which also happened to have a lesser known cable channel. News Channel 8. Yeah. I thought maybe I could get hired at News Channel 8, not even realizing that there was a chance he could put me on ABC. And that guy, I convinced him to let me drop off my resume in person, which was huge because I knew given my nine years of law practice, I could talk my way into the job. And I did. That was the biggest break. What's the biggest break you've had since you left NBC? Hmm. I mean, I guess, look, if they didn't have the madness of the George Floyd mania in 2020, I might still be sitting on the couch. It was the insanity that the country came under that got me up and off my couch and willing to broadcast in my children's playroom with no video camera and two listeners. So in a way, that was a break for me that the news cycle

came in and just touched on all these things that are really important to me, like fairness and justice and due process and facts about cops that were being misrepresented left and right that I got off that couch and started what turned out to be a good show. Finally, I know you've never been asked this one. What's your best advice for me in succeeding in this world? Well, you're an excellent interviewer. That's I think you just proved that. But I think your thoughts on the news and politics are what people are going to tune in for. So if I were you, I'd open and I know you've been doing a lot of this,

but I would open every show with at least 20 minutes of what Mark Halperin thinks about the news stories because everybody will listen to that. All right. Megan, couldn't be more grateful to you for spending this time for your Wonka reminiscence, but also again, for giving me the opportunity to be part of your growing network. I'm grateful to you. The pleasure is all mine, Mark. Keep going. The show is already a huge success. We've been thrilled. You far exceeded our expectations for a month into launch. And I know it's just blue skies ahead. I want to tell you about Lean, created by a doctor and university researcher

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These statements have not been evaluated by the FDA and are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. And they're not a substitute for care from a healthcare provider. I am beyond honored and so excited to have Megan Kelly, my fellow astronaut, expanding her resume as an actress, a producer, non-producer, like what can't this woman do, is now a guest on The Nerve. Look at this. Thank you. Thank you, MK, for coming on the show. I so appreciate it. I mean, I'm everywhere. The two of us are everywhere, but we're making it happen, Maureen. I love it. I love it too. I love it too. And I have been dying to talk to you about Michelle Obama's ongoing midlife meltdown. Like as you put it, her stegosaurus hairdos.

The utterance the other day, she says she's transitioning. I mean, I think we both know what she's trying to do by using that word. I mean, what do you make of all of this? Like what's going on in that psyche? I think that that transitioning line was meant to get attention because her podcast is failing.

No one wants to watch it. And she's not used to that. You know, she's used to being the center of attention. Everyone's interested in me. I don't have to try hard. And so now she's embarrassed. And so I think she's intentionally dropping these little nuggets in these podcasts just so she can get pick up and talking here and there about her

marriage because she knows that she'll get pick up if she talks about him you know it's kind of like Megan and Harry where it's like the man is the star and the woman is kind of the glommer she's like the also ran like we're interested in her to the extent she's going to tell us about him. And she knows that. So she's working it, but she can't hide her general morose nature. So the more you tune into these clips, nevermind that show. And I actually have tried to watch it because it's our business. It's terrible. She's the most depressing person to spend time with. So it's going to continue failing. 100%. I mean, she, well, for one thing, the transitioning thing struck me so strangely because this is the, this is the third rail on the left, right? Like, like the, the people who call, you know, Michelle Obama knows this, that like online, there's a cohort of people that call her

Big Mike. Yes. And who maintain that she is a dude. Okay. That's what they maintain. I'm just saying. That's right. And so she's very cynically using this word. And then she's going to turn around and be like, how dare you interpret it that way? That is such a disgusting misreading of everything I'm saying. I go high when they go low, right? But she's going low. Yeah, well, I mean, that was a lie to begin with. And, you know, tell it to your husband who showed up at that Democratic campaign office

when people weren't rallying behind Kamala Harris and called a bunch of Democrat voters, half of whom were men, half of whom were black, racists and sexists because they weren't getting behind Kamala Harris. Like that doesn't seem like going high to me. And her husband and she have been out there suggesting Trump is Hitler.

She wouldn't even go to Trump's inauguration. It doesn't seem like the high road. So she wants credit for taking the high road, even though of course she hasn't and she doesn't. And it's not where she spends her time. It's just like anything, Maureen. You know, like you and I, we wouldn't be out there being like, we only take the high road. We have nothing to compensate for.

We're perfectly content on the low road and we'll make no apologies for it while we're there. She's like, she's dishonest, right? So she's got to say she's something other than what she is. Same way Anna Wintour had to pretend she understands the black experience because she decided to do black dandyism this year, even though there are no blacks running fashion houses. And even when they've kind of come under the microscope, she's kept it down to a minimum.

So in any event, I think she's a hypocrite. I think she's false. But I think the thing that's genuine about her is her depression, her unhappiness, her self-loathing, and her loathing of him. Oh, 100%. And I think the Meghan Markle analogy is completely correct.

I think we're seeing it now. Like, Hilaria Baldwin is becoming much more aggressive against her husband because she's got the leverage now. Like, it's cheaper to keep her. Like, he can't divorce her. Like, these cases have bankrupted him. So she's out there talking. She's spilling all of his personal secrets.

Like, I'm going to get into this book she just wrote. But she's spilling all of his personal secrets and snapping at him on red carpets and basically saying, I run this show. People are interested in me, not you. And just like those other two, she has not an original thought in her head. She has absolutely nothing to say. She has nothing to offer.

She is in deep rage that she is well-known only because of the marriage she made. And I think really resents the person she decided to marry. And with Michelle and Meghan Markle, and hilarious, unusual, because the bulk of the media is still pretending like she didn't tell us she was from Spain. She just likes to adopt a Spanish accent. Greatest story ever. Greatest story ever. But there's something about these two women in particular, rich beyond their wildest dreams. They got a level of fame they never would have gotten on their own. And I don't know how, I don't know what is going on in there.

You know, I think there are people who will never let themselves be happy. And I think there are people who are comfortable in a state of grievance and martyrdom and rage? See, this drives me nuts because I know a lot of rich women, rich because they married a rich man. And they're fine. They're cool. They're thrilled. You know, they don't run around

like overcompensating all the time or trying to prove to everybody, I am also special. I'm special too. They're like, my life's grand. I got these nice cars and this nice house and this, you know, guy who takes care of me. Like that is the way to do it if you decide to do it.

What happened in both of these cases is they shot, you know, for the moon and they got it. You know, Harry landed the elephant. She got her prince and they got it. You know, Harry landed the elephant. She got her prince. And Michelle got, you know, the star at Harvard who was very clear was going to be making a huge impact in Democrat politics. And then they spent the rest of the time

seemingly resentful or even jealous. Like that's what I detect from these two women. Like there's an envy by them toward their husbands for being the main stars to the point where now Meghan Markle has almost like rearranged it all. You know, Dan Wooden was on my show the other day saying, he's now realized he's the spare to her.

She's so used his fame and connections and his ability to help her make money that she's reengineered the whole thing to where she's the breadwinner. And he is just the whipped loser back at the house, which is exactly what Michelle Obama would kill for. She doesn't want Barack Obama in the headlines anymore. She wants it to be her. And so she's crapping all over him while still kind of using the Obama name at the time in the White House to make herself relevant. Right. And so, like, I, this is what, I think this is just one long tease.

Like, I think she wants out. I think he would be happy to be done with her. Okay. Yes. Like, is he like paying his penance for becoming the first black president and like seeming to be like a kind of decent guy? Like is he paying his penance because Michelle isn't as great as he is and she never will be? So he's just going to suck it up until is he going to let her be the one to file? I just I just find this I never seen such deep loathing on the public state.

I was trying to think of any other famous person who's gone through a divorce. I mean, I don't think since Woody and Mia, frankly. It's been something like this disgusting. You know, like have your dignity. I mean, other than someone who's a sworn enemy of yours, have you ever talked that negatively about somebody uniformly?

You know, like you can never say anything nice about them. It's like, okay, now there are public figures who we don't like and we criticize, but like someone who's in your life, who you get asked about, like, it's just so bizarre. I don't, and her defense now, because it's coming in the news, you know, like her negativity about him has made news, not just with the yous and the mes of the world. And her defense now, she keeps sliding in here and there, is it's me trying to humanize him. I'm trying to humanize him. And Mew is like, okay, Barack Obama is one of the most recognizable, famous people in the world. We don't need you anymore to make introductions for Barack Obama or to humanize him anymore. We know who he is. It's a,

it's a known commodity. Like it's very clear you're doing it because you can't stand him. And what I've found is I listened to her go on and on about how bad he is and how about, about how bad her life is and how the white house sucked. She's just like Meghan Markle. My castle is too small. And then there's Michelle Obama. The White House made me pay for my own groceries. Like these two entitled, have it all people. The more I really start hoping that he is having that affair with Jennifer Aniston. That's who could blame him. I mean, who could blame him? I mean, I actually really did love your theory when I was in your studio. It was maybe a couple of months ago,

and you were like, I don't think his next great romance is with a woman. You're right, right. If I heard it was like, I don't know, some guy who worked in his garden, I might believe it. No, that is absolutely the point. And when I heard you the other day,

taking this apart where she was bitching about having to buy her own groceries while she was living for free in the white house, a staff that was paid for, I didn't even know prior to her latest bitch sesh that, um, the first lady has her own plane and that is called bright star. Right. But she still found a way to complain about it. It's like, so let me just get this straight. We, the people moved you and your whole family into the White House. We gave him Air Force One. We gave you your own plane. You're in a 55,000 square foot mansion with an 18 acre estate around you, your own Rose Garden, your own staff, your own wing. You know, she's got the East Wing. Okay. All of that. Uh, you're universally beloved and celebrated

and put on magazine covers. You name your own book becoming who does that. Okay. But you're still celebrated as one of the world's most lovely and loved people. Okay. And you're still unhappy about what again, about the fact that when the girls ride on the plane, you have to pay the equivalent of an airline ticket for them. And you have to pay for your own food. Like every other human alive, like all of us, right? Like who's going to, she's so out of touch. She doesn't realize we're not going to feel sorry for her for having to pay for her groceries and her kids' airlines. The balls on her. No pun intended. You know, I'm just saying, like, the nerve, the nerve to say, I had to pay for my groceries like all of us do.

Is she paying for, like, gas and electric in the White House? I doubt it. Is she paying for the pool guy to clean the in-house White House pool or the bowling alley or the screening room where they have movie stars come and get first run pictures of whatever they want to see? No, no, and no, no. She doesn't even have a stop in traffic. And even now she's like, you know, but I really deeply worry, worry about my country and my daughters, not me. I have my four car motorcade and law enforcement following me everywhere. I'm Michelle Obama. But my daughters, they're only barely recognizable and they're brown. So they could be picked up at any moment by this evil Trump's department and sent off to El Salvador. So I'm deeply worried about my two privileged daughters

and all brown people in America because the country's racist. You see, the country that made me at least 100 millionaire, probably closer to a billionaire now, is racist to its core. Poor me. I was screwed over in the White House. I'm still getting screwed over. And poor brother Craig is there. It's even worse than you thought, Sister Michelle. As bad as you think you had it, you had it even worse, like her enabler codependent brother. Her brother, frankly, seems terrified of her. He really does.

Like every time he dares to gently contradict her, she'll be like, nope, that's not the way it happened. And he'll be like, you're right, you're right. Yes, like when he was like, well, you know, maybe if we knew, if we knew you weren't feeling great, you know, like we guys, we would say something. And then she's like, we shouldn't have to ask. We shouldn't have to tell you, you know, snap back. But like, you should just figure it out. She totally did.

She also criticized him and, you know, men in general for the way they interpersonally relate. Right. Like if they have a friendship conflict, men among men for the way they interpersonally relate, right? Like if they have a friendship conflict, men among men, they just sort of hash it out. They forget it. It's a bygone. It is never revisited. They never exhume that grievance. And she's saying she thinks that's the wrong way to go in life because Michelle, the master of grievances, likes to hash that shit out. She likes to beat that carcass further into the ground and she will not let go. And you have to have like a multi-day summit and then revisit that maybe months down the road. And she's saying that's the healthy way to be. Yeah. So that's the difference

between her spouse who doesn't seem to put up with her nonsense and her endless wanting, you know, to have these talks about everything. And Meghan's spouse, because Meghan married somebody who is not well, Meghan Markle. Like Prince Harry is a weak, damaged man who doesn't have the inner strength that Barack Obama has. Even though, I mean, listen, I understand Barack Obama's faults and the vein and all like, just of all of that. But he doesn't have like such a tiny id the way Harry does, who does like, he doesn't really have a fundamental sense of himself. And so he was so easy for Meghan Markle to manipulate. All she needed was that first meeting. She was totally right that he would be like putty in her hands,

that he would, he's too dumb. You know, of course he bought every act. She delivered hook, line, and sinker, her little ingenue. I'm so sweet and innocent. I don't even know who the queen is. I had no idea you were a prince. And he ran with it. He was so easy to manipulate.

But Barack is stronger. So Michelle has gone like further into the doldrums of like the only thing miserable people want is to make others miserable too. And she can't seem to do it with him. She, you know, she's only gotten more angry in my opinion because she can't do it to him. He's got too big a life. He's too important to too many people

and she's not his only company. And he will not take the bait. He will not allow himself to be debased this way. Like he's kind of gray rocking it. He's not responding to any of it. Yeah. And he does strike me fundamentally as an optimistic person. He strikes me as somebody who really enjoys life, you know? And like, he's not going to get down in the mud with this. And I think you're right. I think his lack of response is sending her into a further and further rage spiral because she can't get what she wants.

Any attention is better than no attention. And it goes to her husband. It goes to her flailing podcast. She's got nothing to offer us anymore. Yeah. I mean, how can she still be so angry about America? That's my big point. Like, it's like, okay, you don't like him.

You married the wrong man. You're on your podcast talking about how, well, sometimes there's a bad decade in a marriage. No, there isn't. No, there isn't. Those marriages end in divorce. That is not a thing, Michelle. Sorry to tell you.

But so she's out there, but she's still mad at the country. Like you hear her, she never makes a positive reference to the United States or her experience of it. It's always about how racist we are. We elected her husband twice, twice and celebrated her. I mean, she's still, as far as I know, to this day is one of the most popular figures in the country. It's never enough. She's so much

happier talking about her anger and her disappointment in the failure that we all are to her. 100%. And in that vein, I wanted to know your thoughts about the bonkers BBC interview that Harry gave this week or last Friday, but it's got legs for days, in which he says two things that do not go together. He implies that the British royal family had something to do with Diana's death, that they would like to see grievous harm, we know what that means,

come to Harry and Meghan and their two small, innocent children, and also that he would love to get back in. Would love nothing more than to get back in. Yes, this is why I love you, Maureen. Doesn't everyone love The Nerve? I genuinely love the show. I have not missed one. Thank you.

So you're right. They're not, these two things are incongruous and because one of them, and that means one of them is not true. And the one that is not true is his desire for reconciliation. He does believe all those things. I think he actually does believe them. I think it stems back to his childhood trauma, which was genuine at the loss of his mother, the way she died. And unlike William, who also had the same trauma and was only a couple of years older than Harry, dealt with it. Like he dealt with

it and went on to have a relatively, it looks like from the outside anyway, healthy family life in his own, you know, created family. And Harry has not been able to get over it. And I almost think like the way, if your parents abuse you, you'll marry an abuser. You know, like there's some things psychologically that makes you like need a redo over and over hoping for another outcome. He's like, the way he talks about something happening to him or Megan, it's got like a hopeful tinge to it.

You can sense he almost wants something to happen so that he can be like, I told you. See, it's my mother all over again. Like he needs it. Like he needs to feel special. He needs to feel under attack. She does too. I mean, they create these fake dramas around them

to try to, it's almost like Maureen. I remember when I was a little kid, I might've broken a toe. I don't know. I went with it. It's broken. I'm like, I need a cast. I need crutches. You know, I couldn't wait to go to school because I loved attention. And I was like, this is going to attract all sorts of attention to me. Now I was still in the single digits when I did this. And now like with my kids, I can see it happening from a mile away when they do it,

they can get away with nothing. But that's how he still is. And Meghan Markle too, like he needs the drama of like, they're out to get us. They wanna kill us. The press is gonna lead to Meghan getting killed just like my mother. All the stuff I just mentioned is like combined to create this delusional, paranoid, sad sack that used to be a sought after prince.

And now it's just sort of like a charity case where you're like, oh, oh, oh. It's, it's, it's, you're so right about that sort of arrested behavior. You know, I think William, one of the healthiest things he did, part of him falling in love with Catherine, Princess of Wales, I really think had to do with her family of origin and they were intact and they were loving and they seemed to have a very healthy, emotional sort of relationship amongst all of you, all of them. And he was very attracted to that. And I think he found that normalcy and that groundedness and the things that he was maybe lacking given his birthright. And Harry, meanwhile, was just left to stew in it. And I think the thing too that you're saying

is so right on and it's so perverse because in that BBC interview, he was bragging that like on the threat hit list, he's number one. Yeah, right, sure. I would not be bragging about that. If a government agency came to me and said, you know what, Maureen, suddenly for whatever reason, you're like at the top of the list of people who are going to be like in grave danger.

I would be like, let me not publicize that, right? Like that doesn't seem bright. Right. No, he's, I've never seen somebody so anxious to disclose his alleged security threats. I mean, it's, it is strange. Like I actually had a very, very dark period when I first became a journalist where I developed a very bad stalker. I was, nobody knew who I was. I was on the weekend shifts on Fox, but I happened to be the one person. Whoa, nobody knew. You weren't that famous yet.

Not at all, not at all. But just happened to be the one person who developed this very dangerous stalker. And now I talk about it, that's 20 years ago, right? Like it's a long resolve. The guy went to jail for 10 years. But at the time I would rather be caught dead.

I was like, hell no. Anything I say could like encourage the person or create another such person. Or like, if you're actually under threat and genuinely afraid for your safety, you don't want to go anywhere near that discussion. And the whole lawsuit with the family and the security, that was just his attempt to like win, you know, to punish them, to say like, you're not in control of me. Like,

I will get what I'm entitled to. I'm a Prince of England. You know, I will have it because we all know, number one, he has the money to pay for private security, all the private security he wants. Now, it's true, you cannot arm them in Great Britain. They're not allowed to carry guns. So that's a diminishment of full protection. But it's what Taylor Swift has to deal with. It's what Tom Cruise has to deal with. It's what every massive star way more famous than Harry has to deal with when they go to the UK. And speaking of stalkers, I guarantee you Taylor Swift is in far more danger at any public appearance than Prince Harry is.

But the second point, Dan Wooden told me, he broke Megxit, he's broken all these big royal stories, that the king said to Harry, okay, Queen Elizabeth said you cannot have the security the same as you would if you were working royal. We cannot look at the taxpayers and tell them they have to foot that bill since you're not doing any work for us

and you fled the coop and you're trying to make money off of all our stories on Netflix. But whenever you come here, you can stay in Buckingham Palace and you will get all the security that comes with that. And Harry refuses to do it, even though Maureen, no one's in Buckingham Palace. William and Kate are at a different palace and so are Charles and Camilla. So we'd have Buckingham Palace to himself with all the

security. And he still is on the BBC going, boo fucking hoo. Feel sorry for me. Incredible. Such a great point. And like, let's say even a family member happened to be in Buckingham Palace. It's like you could conceivably never see them, okay? You've got like 85 rooms and staff and foot soldiers and it's all gonna be fine. I wanted to ask you, the Diddy trial,

we are in day four. It's happening in New York City. They are still winnowing down this jury pool. And the judge in the case said that the celebrity names that are documented and submitted to the court are like this thick. He compared it to the Lord of the Rings book. Okay. So have you heard about some of the celebrity names that have come out? I heard it on the nerve. I think you were talking about it on your last episode. And then the latest I heard was that she wasn't a celebrity witness, but she was one of the key accusers has gone missing. What? I didn't hear that.

Yeah. And she was supposed to show up and they can't find her. And there's a search. I don't know if she's absconded, like she's having second thoughts about testifying or there was even just a miscommunication issue that caused her not to show up. But I'm sure people are very intimidated about walking into that courtroom and testifying against him.

I mean, I have an even more sinister thought. That somebody did away with her? Yeah. I mean, look, if you believe- Or intimidated her to the point that she fled away with her. Yeah. I mean, or intimidated her to the point that she fled for her life. Yeah. Well, look, we, we saw him beat his ex-girlfriend and then we read the allegations from the, uh, the, the main ex-girlfriend who's like one of the main accusers in this case, Cassie, who's going to take the stand. And then, you know, allegedly setting the car on fire of the kid, Cuddy,

because they liked the same person, you know, the same woman, like if he's capable of all of that, allegedly, I mean, we know the beating happened. We saw it with our own eyes. In a hotel hallway. Yeah. Then how far would he go? Like, I don't know. I mean, look, I said this on my show this week, and it's true. I went to the Met Gala. I went two years, Maureen. And what I remember-

Yes. You know, Anna Wintour and I used to be, well, no, we weren't friends, but she was cozying up to me when she thought Trump didn't like me. She was like, oh, then I must like her. So I went there. And the thing I remember

most from being there was P. Diddy in the restroom of the Met. It was the women's room. That's why I was there. Dry humping a Kardashian. I heard the dry humping anecdote, but I don't think you revealed the name. Yeah, it was, there were multiple Kardashians in there and like that other sort of lame supermodel version, you know, like not the real supermodels like we grew up with, but like these new influencer types. Right, right.

They were all in there. No one was using the bathroom. They were smoking and dry humping. And that was P. Diddy. Like, I'm just saying there's a pattern of disrespect for others and our sacred places and things that should be treated as inviolate. And it applies to places and things that should be treated as inviolate. And it applies

to places and it applies to people. And I have no idea what this guy's capable of, but I think it's probably worse than we can even imagine. So if I were in the SDNY, I'd be really seriously considering getting all of my witnesses protection and making sure that neither he nor his people had any way of threatening or accessing them. Can I just get back to the Met bathroom for a moment? Yeah. The important part of this story. Yes.

So Pity's in, Pity, Diddy, is it P-D-whatever. Pity works. Dry humping a Kardashian as other Kardashian siblings are in there watching. And smoking. That is so disgusting. Yeah. Like the smoking is less disgusting than like

your siblings watching you engage in a sexual act. It's so gross. Well, look, it's like the Met, you can't smoke in the Met. Like fine, you're gonna be a smoker, it's fine. But like truly some of our most sacred works of art are inside the Met. There's no smoking.

You cannot smoke. And Doug was in the men's room with two people whose names you would definitely know who are of the tech world, snorting Coke. Like this is a lovely gala. These are the people who think there are betters who look down at, you know, the great unwashed as like, oh, they can't come to at, you know, the great unwashed as like,

oh, they can't come to Anna Ointer's, the Met Gala. But it's no surprise to me that this guy wound up being a complete cretin. And I don't know whether SDNY's got the case made. I really don't because, you know, for the same reasons you guys were discussing with the lawyer on your case on your show the other day, I'm sure he's going to argue, I love sex parties. People love to give it up to me for free because I was rich and I was a rap mogul and I don't have to force anybody into it. Like, trust me.

Yeah. And if you can't criminalize my weird sex parties as a big star, I think that'll be the defense. I think it'll be convicted, but you know, I wouldn't bet money on it, Maureen, because that kind of defense, you know, Harvey Weinstein's doing the same thing right now in another courtroom, and he might get away with it too. Harvey might get away with it. But my other, the other aspect of the defense strategy that I love is, hey, like, he loves to buy baby oil in bulk.

Like, you know, everybody loves a bargain. Sure, it's just like paper towels. Yeah, right? Like, who doesn't love to buy, like, 12 bounty select-a- Like, you know, everybody loves a bargain. Everybody loves to go to Costco. Sure, it's just like paper towels. Yeah, right? Like who doesn't love to buy like 12 bounty select-a-size, you know? Why not knock that out? Listen, my big takeaway on that was like, I feel like Doug and I might be phoning it in. Like, do I? Are you not having enough sex parties, Megan? And like covered with baby oil, everybody? Should we just be, you've been to my house for a party, Maureen. I like, I feel like we fell down on the job. Well, I was anticipating something a little spicier, I will tell you, but you know, I, I made do with Doug's delicious cocktails.

Right. Here's your cocktail and your baby oil. See you in 20 minutes. I'm easy. I'm easy. You know, I can hang. I'm a good hang, I think. Yeah, and so I guess the question then is like, so for my last question, vis-a-vis Diddy, is the celebrity names thus far that has shocked me is Mike Myers. Oh yeah. Mike, what is Mike Myers doing running with Diddy and his crew?

Like this nerdy white comic Canadian, Like what is that? I know. I guess, I mean, Ashton Kutcher too, which is not really a shock, but like I'm not shocked. I don't know. Like, as you know, people are really dazzled by huge wealth. And not even just,

and rock stars have it in a particular way. Like they're almost bigger than our actors. Like there's something about them that's like, it's like you could say Tom Cruise is coming to the restaurant and people would swoon for sure. But like, if you say like Rihanna is coming to the restaurant, you're going to have to shut down the restaurant. You're going to have to get layers of cops.

It's just, they're bigger. They're just in a different stratosphere for whatever reason, the mystery around them. You know, you feel like you know the actors because you hear them saying lines and you see them up close and the performers are different. They've just got this incredible talent and they have this whole team around them that builds image. And I just think that people are very susceptible to that kind of a person deigning to speak to them, to want to be with them, to entertain them. And that's why mothers handed over their children like Usher and Justin Bieber. And it's the same thing that led maybe Mike Myers to go into these ditty parties and allow himself to be in the presence of what may have been open crimes.

And like a roll of the eyes, like, I guess this is just how they live. And I've been given this chance to peer inside. Yes. You know, it's human nature to wanna see, like, what am I being shown? How bad is it? And I'll tell you one other story on this.

There was a woman who told me her Harvey Weinstein story. I'm gonna keep this ambiguous so I don't identify her inadvertently. But he didn't touch her. He was just really gross and did some outrageous things around her. And I asked her like, well, why? He didn't have you like under his control.

So why didn't you just like run or turn and leave? And she said, I was curious to see how far he was gonna take it. Like it was Harvey Weinstein. Interesting, interesting. And it was shocking. You know, I'm like, oh my God, look at what he's doing. Is he gonna see this through to the end?

Like how far is he gonna go with this? And I think that element is at play with otherwise normal people going to these ditty parties too. Like, what is this? I've been given this glimpse and I can't stop looking at it. And next thing you know, you're a witness at a criminal trial being asked to talk about it. Next thing you know, you've got a subpoena and you got to like lay out big bucks for a criminal defense attorney and potentially

another identity in another state. It's all fun and games until that point. Exactly. It's all fun and games. Well, thank you, Megan, for coming on the nerve and for dishing with us. That Met Gala story, like you could dine out on that forever, the bathroom thing.

And I just, you know, I love you. And thank you for all of your support and all of your help as we get our baby show off the ground. It's my pleasure. I have never believed in someone more, Maureen. I know this show is already a success and it's gonna be even bigger. We're watching your numbers climb.

We're all like, oh my God, look at this woman. It's crazy, but it's such a fun show to listen to. It's like my guilty pleasure. I try to store them up for the weekends when I'm like just on my own and I can really enjoy it. And most of my podcasts, I play on 2.0 just because I listen to so many. Sure. I listen to yours on 1.0, Maureen. That's new territory. That's big. Oh my God. It's all happening, Megan. It's all happening. I will see you next time, perhaps in outer space, perhaps on Terra Firma. I was going to say, one could even make the case.

You're inspirational. You know, one could. But I would say, you know, it was your brainchild, so you are the inspiration, and I am the gale to your Oprah. I'm really proud of me. You should be. You should be. All right, MK, I'll see you later. Good to see Oprah. I'm really proud of me. You should be. You should be. All right, MK,

I'll see you later. Good to see you. See you soon. Good to see you.