The Megyn Kelly Show - New Video Shows Bowman Lied About Fire Alarm, and Rational Gender Care, with Jesse Kelly, Joe Burgo, and Stella O'Malley | Ep. 657

Episode Date: October 27, 2023

Megyn Kelly is joined by Jesse Kelly, host of TheFirst TV's "I'm Right," to talk about college students' increasingly prevalent anti-Jewish displays across the country, whether the college students even understand what they're saying, BLM and pro-Hamas sentiment aligned now, why parents should pay attention to the ways they raise their children so they don't become easily indoctrinated, how raising children to be “commie foot soldiers” will lead to the anti-Jewish nonsense we see today, the new video showing Democratic Rep. Jamaal Bowman pulling the House building fire alarm to get out of a critical vote, the lies he told the media, whether this will affect his future re-election chances, and more. Then Stella O'Malley and Joe Burgo of Genspect join to discuss psychotherapists finally speaking out on alternatives to "affirm only" gender care, mental distress being weaponized, sexual awakenings and why puberty blockers can be so harmful, the real alternatives that should be available for children with gender dysphoria, pushing back on radical gender ideology using “non-medicalized” care, sexual vulnerability and autistic kids, the new gay "conversion therapy" of radical gender ideology, the need for women to stand up and push back, the danger of playing the pronouns game, detransitioners suing now, and more.Kelly: https://www.thefirsttv.com/book/O'Malley and Burgo: https://genspect.org Follow The Megyn Kelly Show on all social platforms: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/MegynKellyTwitter: http://Twitter.com/MegynKellyShowInstagram: http://Instagram.com/MegynKellyShowFacebook: http://Facebook.com/MegynKellyShow Find out more information at: https://www.devilmaycaremedia.com/megynkellyshow

Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at noon east. Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show. Happy Friday. We made it. My gosh, it's been a long week. It's been a long three weeks, has it not? Big trouble for President Biden we're seeing today as he loses support among Americans in the latest poll. A new Gallup poll shows his approval numbers cratering in the wake of Hamas's attack on Israel. His overall approval is at just 37%, down four points just since September. His ratings among Democrats down 11 points since last month. And that's not all. A look at his overall RealClearPolitics average shows his approval numbers are worse

than former President Trump's, than former President Obama's, and George W. Bush's at this time in their presidencies. Amid this bleak news for the White House comes word that the president has a new challenger in the Democratic primary, a little known Democrat out of Minnesota named Dean Phillips, who is actually encouraging others to get in the race, saying Biden can't win, saying the time has come to pass the torch. Meantime, we're seeing fresh examples of far left ideology taking hold of our country. An alarming video out of New Orleans where an off-campus rally near Tulane University gets out of hand as a man attempts to set an Israeli flag on fire and a pro-Israel student tries to stop him, whereupon he gets beaten with a flagpole and chaos ensues. It's amazing. So these pro-Palestinian, pro-Hamas guys in the truck wanted to burn the Israeli flag.

Somebody who's pro-Israel tried to grab the flag to prevent the disrespect, and he got beaten with a flagpole. Nice, nice. Way to escalate. According to local reports, two people were arrested. They're not Tulane students, though it happened nearby. Tulane's undergraduate population is more than 40% Jewish, and many students have family and friends directly affected by the tragic events in Israel. Over on the West Coast, at Stanford University, my God, certain names are just becoming synonymous with lunacy. Brown, yes, for a long, long time. Stanford, UPenn, NYU, Harvard. I mean, just synonymous with lunacy. Don't send your kids there. Don't donate there and don't hire people from there.

Palestinian activists at Stanford issuing a set of demands now. They're very angry with their university. Among their demands, they want the university to immediately condemn Israel, to boycott all Israeli products, to call for an immediate ceasefire. And once that ceasefire happens, they want the school to pay for round trip tickets so students can visit their family and friends and quote, grieve properly. Oh, they also want the school to hire them lawyers and they want 247 grief counselors paid for by the university. Oh, my God. Why can't I be the dean of Stanford?

I would love to handle these students. I know just how to do it. It involves a certain Italian gesture right underneath your chin. Then there's NYU, a constant in the anti-Israel protests. Of course, NYU is situated in a city in which I think New York City's only got, it's got the greatest Jewish population outside of Israel. But don't let that stop you, pro-Hamas students. An update to the video that we brought to you yesterday. Remember that lovely NYU law student who blamed Israel for the attack immediately? She said Israel's entirely to blame for its dead babies. I mean, within 24 hours of the massacre three weeks ago. And then Winston and Strawn,

the Chicago law firm pulled her job offer. Well, yesterday we showed you video of this woman, Raina Workman. You should know her name, right? Remember, say her name. I'm going to say your name, Raina Workman. Don't hire her. And she was with another woman and they were covering up images of missing Israelis because they don't really give. And she was with another woman and they were covering up images of missing Israelis because they don't really give a damn about the children or the innocents who have been stolen and are being kept hostage in tunnels or worse. Well, that friend who she was with, her pal, her terrorist sympathizer pal, has now been identified as Hala al-Shami. In addition to defacing posters of the missing, it seems Hala is a New York

University employee. Of course she is. She's a quote, course assistant in the Department of Media, Culture and Communications. Oh, she wants my job. Oh, good luck. Look forward to what network's going to hire you. Oh wait, I know you're going to have to boot Mehdi Hassan out of his position. Good luck with it. According to her now deleted LinkedIn account, because these people are cowards and they can't take negative feedback to their bad behavior,

so they have to delete their social media because the bullies are so mean. She's probably asking NYU to hire her 24-7 counseling assistants right now. This woman was educated at NYU, just like Rhino Workman, and the American University of Beirut, and appears to have worked in some sort of journalism job in Beirut, Lebanon, as a writer and an editor. Nice. Joining me now to discuss it all, Jesse Kelly, host of The Jesse Kelly Show and I'm Right.

Jesse, welcome back to the program. So, boo-hoo, the Stanford University students want 24-7 counselors to help them deal with the grief and all the people who are pro-Israel on the campus. Megan, this is the problem in our country, and it is a huge, like, it's a national problem that we mock these people for. And we should mock these little losers for being little losers. But it is a problem because these universities, I could never get into one, of course, but these universities, they do produce people who lead our society, right? You know, senators, they went to Harvard, they went to Stanford, Fortune 500 CEO, the leaders of a society come from these elite

institutions. So if your elite institutions are producing weapons grade turds, who feel like they need grief counselors 24 seven and all this other stuff, well, you're going to find your nation in quite a pickle if all the institutions eventually get taken over by these vicious little monsters. Because the right lied to themselves for years and years and years. I heard this a million times, Megan. I probably said this myself. Well, once they get older and earn a paycheck, they'll wake up. That has not happened.

That did not happen at all. They took their radical activism right from college, right into the corporate boardroom, right into the U.S. House, all throughout our government bureaucracy. What we're seeing on campus now, the same mentality governs the country. Mm-hmm. You got to give it to them on chutzpah, you know, like the nerve to actually come out and ask for 24-7 trauma counselors, to say there will be, to look at the Stanford University professors and administrators who let you into this institution and say,

there will be no neutrality, no neutrality. They say on genocide, neutrality is complicity. Now get me my damn lawyer and my trauma counselor and you get out there and you boycott all Israeli goods. You got it? And you know what? They're probably going to get some of this. They're probably going to get it. Well, this is the difference in mentality, Megan. And this is why it's been so hard for so many people on the right to overcome. This is why we've lost the culture

because we believe in neutrality. If you talk to the normal person on the right and not a bad person either, just the normal person on the right, they would honestly, they would probably genuinely tell you, hey, I just want to heal divisions. I want to get along. I want to live and let live. Hey, you do you, I'll do me. That's obviously not universal. That's probably the predominant thinking on the right. Probably most of the

people who even listen, watch your show. That's a normal person's way of thinking. But when you're dealing with conquerors who don't acknowledge neutrality, they won't accept neutrality. Well, you have to change your mentality because they're not going to change. These people mean what they say. No, there's no neutrality. You will voice support for me or you're my enemy. They're dead serious. And those two mentalities, the live and let live, and there's no neutrality, they don't work together. One is going to dominate the other if the other doesn't change how it thinks. It's true. It's like that, you know, the BLM videos where they stopped the cars and they

went up to people at restaurants and they were like, say it, say it. You're supposed to raise your fist and say BLM. It's not enough to be neutral for them. It is you will adopt the way I view or else the way I view life or else. And it's like that kid in Tulane who was running after the truck as they were trying to burn the Israeli flag saying, give me that flag. Don't disrespect that flag. And he got beaten with a flagpole. No, you will burn it. You'll watch it. You'll love it. F off, right? It's like you, the backlash against the people who are standing up for hostages, standing up for terror victims is absolute madness. Well, it is madness. And I think we should probably leave some room, just in my opinion, I think we should

leave some room for madness. And this is what i mean by this look the wisdom of crowds i believe uh malcolm gladwell actually wrote a book on that but there's there's the wisdom of crowds the madness of crowds people do things when there's a big mob doing things that they would never otherwise do if they weren't in a big mob you know you get your blood up and you do these things. I think people should realize, as we see all these nutball demonstrations, just like we did after the St. George Floyd protests and all these other things, people have to understand a lot of the people, especially young people, caught up in these things. They're just doing things because everyone else is doing them. I bet you money, Megan, if you went and pulled 10 people out of every single one of these protests, that nine of them actually couldn't lay out any of the history of Israel, Hamas or the region. I bet you they couldn't give you specifics about.

Oh, yeah, of course. I don't know anything. Jesse Kelly needs to get in the midst of these reporters or these these college protesters and say, when you say from the river to the sea, what do you mean? What specifically? When you say end the occupation, define the occupation. What exactly are they doing? When you say intifada, what is an intifada? What does it mean? How has it happened historically?

Please do this. Please. You'll be my lead. I need to see this done. You know what's funny, Megan, is I actually might do that, but I don't need to because you already know and I already know, everyone listening right now already knows how that would turn out. And I heard a fascinating, it was a fascinating documentary I watched one time, and I'm sorry, I can't plug them. It was years ago, but they were interviewing people from mao's cultural revolution everyone who listens to your

show knows what that is mao weaponizes all the young people of china high school college kids and they go around and beat a bunch of people to death it was horrible tore up grades toward graves tore down statues it was awful they killed like two million people beating teachers to death with ball bats this is the worst thing ever and they interviewed during this documentary not victims you always see those documentaries they found and interviewed people who had taken part This is the worst thing ever. And they interviewed during this documentary, not victims. You always see those documentaries. They found and interviewed people who had taken part in all this stuff. They're in the crowds yelling at the struggle sessions. They're throwing stuff. They're hitting people. They're doing these horrible things. And to a man, to a woman, it was men and women that

took place. Not one of them, and they were remorseful, but not one of them could explain, and they were asked several times, why did you do this? Okay, and it was always a specific case. Okay, you, you went to Barbara's house, and you beat her to death. You did that. Why did you do that? And none of them could really explain why. The best you could get was some vague reference. Well, I mean, we thought she was maybe a landlord who could maybe have kicked people. They never knew, Megan. These people don't know. The crowd's doing it, so they do it. I think it's more complicated than that because it's the BLM crowd. It's the that crowd right it's like it's crazy because like they're they're perception their self-perception of i stand up for the oppressed that's what you're seeing underlying a lot of these things and they view the palestinians as oppressed they have no fucking

knowledge of anything right they haven't got they see skin color they're like yeah they're the victims and you look back at like the individual profiles of some of the people yesterday we hired uh we we highlighted what happened at cooper union in New York City, where these Jewish students were barricaded in a library. They were locked in a library because the students, the pro-Palestinians were banging on the door outside. So the librarians had to protect these kids. I mean, you know, you're in trouble when the librarians are your chief security, locking them in, go librarians. And here's the student who, according to Stop Anti-Semitism, orchestrated the mob against the Jews at Cooper Union. His name is Matthew Maglore.

And this is a guy, the same guy with the same name at Cooper Union goes by, ready, Jesse? They, him, M. M, E-M. I didn't even know that was a thing. M, he wants you to call him M. Well, M orchestrated an intimidation campaign against the Israelis, and they're very mad at M now because he seems like a total douchebag. But this is another. So he's an artist

and a person with the same exact name as this guy. I can't confirm 100%. It's the same person, but who else is named Matthew, spelled T-H-I-E-U, Magalore, M-A-G-L-O-I-R-E, at Cooper Union, which is not a big school.

There's a website that features his art, sculptures, and animations. And I thought you'd really appreciate these, Jesse as a connoisseur of art I don't know what it I'm not sure what we're looking at here is it is it

is it penile is it like potatoes I don't know what it is but this is how he describes his art. His work explores the black identity and the most sublime qualities in the most unexpected ways. I think Kamala Harris wrote this. through establishing blurred lines in his choice of media, allowing his artistic practices to leech off one another in an accompanying effort to intensify the overall experience. So this is a BLM-er who's looking for his next, latest, greatest cause, and it happens, unfortunately, to be Jewish people who he wants to torment.

Yeah, he's a street communist. You know, we've talked, we've had these conversations before, Megan, but this actually goes kind of back to what I was saying. Yes, most of the people in the crowd, they're nutball, just they don't even know why they're there. But there is an organized anti-West, anti-civilization, a very large organized group of street communists in this country. And there's a reason the old the Venn diagram of the Black Lives Matter Antifa protests and now the pro Hamas protests, that Venn diagram is just one single circle. There's a reason it's all the same people. We have nurtured for years now. We've educated them in our schools. We've taught them culturally with our entertainment, the generations of people in this country to believe that America and really the West itself is the source of all evil. That's how they operate. It's how they view everything in life. I was actually

just in New York City. Sorry, Megan, I'm going to filibuster for a second. I was actually just in New York City, which I love. And Aubrey up there. I was out there with my wife and we did the touristy thing, which we'd never done. We did a Statue of Liberty tour. And of course, our tour guide, you know, it's a big tour. Of course, our tour guide is a complete piece of commie trash. And he, it's a Statue of Liberty tour, right? Just tell me the history, the French and the artists and who did this and who did that. But everything in the tour, everything in his life was all about how much America sucked and how horrible this society was. And he could give you an accurate piece of history from the Statue of Liberty and tell you, you know, Bob Jones

designed this in 1650. And without missing a breath, he would transition right into how that made America an evil, horrible, racist place. And of course, he would do the, quote, hypocritical things that are equally ridiculous. He was an actor, because of course he was an actor, Megan. And he'd flown all over the world. And he just explained to us how he'd flown all over the world. And he said, flown all over the world. And the next breath, he looked up at a helicopter, because New York City has helos going all over the place. He looked up and said, look at that helicopter destroying our planet, just shaking his head, just described all the flights he'd taken. But in his mind, we could mock him and roll our eyes. That's how he frames everything. Everything in his life is viewed through that lens. America sucks.

America's bad. America has to burn for America's sins. And we don't want to acknowledge what percentage of this country thinks that way. And it's not just young people either. We have a bunch of vile communist scum at the top and bottom of this country, and they just view this country as the height of all evil. And that's why they move right from a St. George Floyd protest to a kill all the Jews protest without a second thought. So true, because you look at people like Rashida Tlaib, Cori Bush, AOC, and you ask yourself, how on earth did their constituents elect them?

My God, how did these people become U.S. Congress people? And just look at the colleges. Look what we're seeing out there. Look at the pipeline that we create of this sort of these radicalized young people who are stupid and listless, who then get exploited by professors who have an entirely radical agenda

then popped out there. And all of these things on their resume are pluses, not minuses. Students for justice in Palestine, they'll get you hired in most places as opposed to an eyebrow going up going, wasn't that the group that hated all the Jews and celebrated the dead babies, right? And before you know it, they're the professors at the universities. They're the Bernadine Dorns at Northwestern Law School or Bill Ayers at University of Chicago, or you could go down the list, New York City, NYU took a bunch of these weather underground people. Anyway, it's a pipeline. I'm going to do something terrible, Megan, but you let me do this once on your show. So I'm going to do it again. I'm actually going to plug the book I wrote, and I really don't need people to buy it. I'm not trying to get people to

buy the book, borrow it from a friend, right? If you want to buy it, buy it. I wrote a whole chapter in the anti-communist manifesto about what you just described. We had documented terrorists who tried to blow people up and oftentimes did and half the time they blew themselves up in this country in the sixties and 70s called the weather underground. And they were all committed communists. And in fact, they wrote down, I write down, I'll tell you the story of it in this, how 25 million Americans, by their estimation, were going to have to be removed from society and reeducated. And if they proved themselves unable to be reeducated, they would have to be eliminated.

OK, so this is a group talking about genociding 25 million Americans back in the 60s and 70s. So everybody listen right now. Oh, my gosh, that's crazy. Those people must all be in Fort Leavenworth right now. Nope. Virtually every one of them got off scot-free. And to this day, they are prestigious, prestigious people in high society. They teach your little Aiden, Jaden, and Braden when you send them off to Stanford because you think he's going to get a good

education. That communist terrorist teaches your child the same thing they always thought, and they haven't apologized. They haven't retracted. They preach and think the same things then. This country has facilitated and nurtured these people. And now we wake up and we wonder why one day I saw a poll the other day, Megan, that said half of Joe Biden's voters, half believe speech should be regulated by the government in the United States of America. Half the Democrats in this country believe this way. I'm not even kidding you. That is people who believe you, Megan Kelly, should be thrown in prison for the things you say. Half of the Joe Biden voters in this country. How does that happen? You educate people that way. They have been nurtured that way for decades.

And now we got ourselves in quite a pickle. You know what? It's like, great. Get out. Virtually every other country in the world, including in the free West world, will regulate your speech. The governments will do that. Get out. It's one of the things that makes America so unique. Get the F out. We don't want you. You don't want to be you don't want to be here. Listen to us. We don't want you either. Move along. Yet just yesterday and listen, Great Britain is beautiful. I love it. Got a lot of friends over there. However, just yesterday, our pal Lawrence Fox, who's been on the program recently, posted a video of a woman who decided to stand outside of an abortion clinic over in the UK, Jesse. She was standing.

She did not have a placard, a poster, a flyer. She did not have a group around her protesting. She literally was just standing there praying in her head, praying silently. Not like yelling it out, you know, like God doesn't want you to have abortions, nothing in her head. And there's video taken of a police officer coming over to her saying, you've got to get out. You're not allowed to be here. The woman says, I'm standing here. The cop says, you're in a no protest zone. The woman says, I'm not protesting. I'm literally standing here praying in my head.

Get out. You're getting a citation. It's not allowed. You want to live like that? Get on a flight. British Airways will take you six hours from New York. You're good. You want to be here? We have different principles. Well, we don't, though, because our FBI did the same thing to Mark Howell. Look, our FBI, we sent a SWAT team to the guy's house. We had a pro-life pastor, and he volunteered to turn himself in. Megan, you're well acquainted with the law. His lawyer got a hold of the FBI and said, hey, if there's going to be a problem, I'll come turn myself in. That's music to everyone's ears.

Then you don't have to risk anybody getting hurt. Law enforcement doesn't get hurt. That's wonderful. It's the preferred outcome. They said, no, don't bother, and showed up at his house with 30 armed officers pointing long guns at his wife, himself and his children. Same thing happens here in the country. And the problem is, Megan, is we want them to get out. But the only way to get these people out is to make this place inhospitable to them. And I know that sounds harsh to a lot of people, but we're dealing with people

who think differently than we do. We're dealing with conquerors. And this is the best way I can describe it. When it comes to kids like Megan, I know you're a parent. I'm a parent. I love my kids and I have opinions on how people should raise their kids. However, when I see a parent and parents in public, maybe not raising their kid the way I would. It would never enter my mind to go correct them or get involved

or anything like that. I may roll my eyes. I may say something to Abba under my breath, but it's not my business, right? But we have to understand we're dealing with people. It would never occur to them not to do that. They see other things. They hate it. They dislike it. And they intend to conquer it. They don't want to leave here. They want to conquer here. That's why they're here. That's why they do the things they do. The woman we mentioned at the top who works with Rhino Workman, Rhino Workman, the NYU law student who got her job offer withdrawn. So she goes to NYU. She becomes the president of the Student Bar Association. And she promptly booted from that role. Thank God. And her job offer revoked,

but maybe we're being too tough on Rhino Workman because look at the professor. I mentioned it. Her name is Allah Allah Sami something. And, um, so this Allah Sami is an instructor at NYU. Maybe she feels differently. Maybe she's setting a better role model, acting as one for Rhino Workman. No, we see her pulling down the posters right next to her. And listen to when she gets confronted. You got to watch the tape to when the teacher, al-Asami, gets confronted with pulling down the hostage pictures. Hey, guys, look what they're doing. You guys want to say your name or no? I don't want to tell you my name. You guys want to put your name're doing. You guys wanna say your name or no? I don't wanna tell you my name.

You guys wanna put your name? Really? You guys scared? I'm not scared. At least say your name. If you're gonna do it, do it with pride. I don't have to talk to you. If you're gonna do it, do it with pride. I'm very proud. I just don't wanna talk to you.

So what's your name? Say it to the whole world. I'll say it to every single firm. Say your name. Look what they're doing. They're doing over these houses. The children are dying in Israel? Look what they're doing. They're doing over these houses. The children are dying in Israel. Look what they're doing. I love this guy, by the way, doing the video. Say your name. Do it right. Oh, you're so proud. She wouldn't say her name. She's one of those people had to be tracked down by stop anti-Semitism X account. And now we know her name and I hope she doesn't get hired. I hope she gets the boot from NYU. I hope my student or my friend's student is at NYU right now.

I hope he never has to sit in this ridiculous person's class. Can't imagine she's actually what instructing in media. Great. Perfect. Yeah. Look, Megan, I've got to say something and it may be hard for some people to hear, but I really do mean it. I'm thrilled that we're finally seeing some cultural pushback against the little monsters we've raised in this country. You won't be hired. You won't do that. I really am glad.

It is a good thing. Where was that energy when the Black Lives Matter Antifa street animals were burning this country down? These are all the same people. Where was that energy for our country here? And look, it's not that I don't want people to be emotional and be upset about what took place in Israel. These people are here. They occupy our society, and they've told us they've come forward several times. This is just the latest. They've come forward several times and told us exactly who they are, exactly what they think, exactly what they believe, and there was

zero outcry from the top tier of this country from these law firms from media people there was zero outcry to deny any black lives matter protest or any antifa protester employment for the rest of their lives when they were all mobbing up on college campuses but something terrible happens in israel and now all of a sudden a bunch of americans have some principles where were those principles beforehand? Normal people like you have been warning about these people for years. And it took a spark thousands of miles away to finally wake up people in this country. I'm glad they're finally waking up. Don't get me wrong. I'm glad people are waking up. But man, alive, have some appreciation for your own country and realize what you've dealt with here. Yeah, no, you're right. They're awfully late to the party. Some of us have been at the party for a long time trying to stop this freight train, which has been just out of control,

rolling through our civil rights and our foundational principles like free speech. And these people were silent and they said absolutely nothing. So I feel like we've been consistent all along, which is, it's a hard no. I'm not hiring the people who are on the street in Kenosha setting fires. And I'm not hiring these lunatics who are backing terrorists in Israel. No, thank you for outing yourself. Get out. But I don't see it the same as somebody who was more

left wing in college and now is more right. Like there's a natural evolution that happens with young people in our society. And I get that, you know, like you march for Greenpeace when you're 20 and then you turn into Michael Schellenberger. That's exactly his story, by the way. He got hired for Greenpeace and then sort of learned some things and now has become the brilliant guy on climate that we know him to be. This is totally different. Like the Israel thing is special in the way that I don't know the person who would see 1,400 dead civilians murdered in their beds, in their cribs, and within 24 hours put out a statement blaming them entirely and cheering it on the streets. That asshole college professor, he was a young guy too, saying he was exhilarated by it. He was excited. There's something wrong with those.

There's something especially wrong with those people. Well, what we've done is we've created, not you, obviously, or people listening, but we've created these people in our society, Megan. I'll explain it this way. Let's say I raise my sons and I have a dream of raising football players, right? But I never tell them about football. I never let them watch football, but instead, I get them super strong. They're in the weight room. They're out there doing various other sports. So they're fast, they're strong, they're ready to go. And then one day they discover football and boom,

I've got some good football players on my hands. Why? Because I've created them. I've nurtured, I've put all the structure in place to create a football player. All it would take at the end is them discovering it, just a little nudge and boom, I've to create a football player. All it would take at the end is them discovering it, just a little nudge and boom, I've got me a football player on my hands. That's what we've done with young people, not just young people, actually, that's

not fair. There's a lot of older people that are just the same in this country. That's what happens when you educate people in a country for years and years and years and years and years about why their country sucks. It really does matter. What you've done is when you start in the third grade and you tell them, you know what America is? Slavery. And by the time you get to college, you're telling them how horrible everything is. When you do that to generation after generation, no, they may not have been vicious little promos praising murderers last year, but you've put the structure in place. They've lifted the weights. They've run the sprints. They're ready to go. And now all it takes is a new cause. All

you have to do is aim them in whatever direction you want, and they're prepped and ready to go. We have a nation of young people, especially, but we have a nation now, 20, 30 percent, pick your number, of commies prepped, ready to go. They've lifted the weights. They've run the sprints. All it's going to take is a direction. Just push them that direction and they're off. You're so right. I got to hearing you explain it. That sounds exactly right. I, you know, because I was talking to my friend, her her son is at NYU and we were talking about the lunacy there. And she was saying, and she's right, this wouldn't happen to him because she and her husband have raised him differently.

Like they're raising their kids the way you and I are raising our kids, fortifying them before they go off to these institutions to deal with the nonsense. And it's not an indoctrination to the right. It's just an understanding on how to critically think, understanding who you are, where you come from, love of country. You're inoculated against the right. It's just an understanding on how to critically think, understanding who you are, where you come from, love of country. You're inoculated against the madness. And yet there's this other set of parents out there doing something very different. Like, as you say, priming the pump to get them ready to receive the host virus and let it fester and grow. And a lot of these parents now that you're seeing, you're seeing this,

especially in older Jewish parents, they clearly did not realize what they were doing. They didn't realize they were priming that pump and getting them lifting weights ready for football. There was a story a couple of days ago, I covered it on my show. It was in the New York Post. It was in the New York Post about a Brooklyn dad, a Jewish dad, who fired his own son. And I'm not going to list the guy's name. I actually don't like when they call these people and they blast their names and stuff like that out there. But he's a Jewish dad, fires his own son. If you go through the article, why did he fire his son? His son is out there. Dad is Jewish. His son is out there with his girlfriend, ripping down all these posters of missing Israeli kids and things like that.

Pro Hamas, kill all the Jews. Yeah, kill all these Jews, all these other things. And dad is out there saying, that's not who he is. That's not how I raised him. Well, I'm sorry, no matter what you are, if you raise your child to be a Democrat in this country, because it's not 1960 anymore, JFK is long gone. In 2023, if you raise your child to be a Democrat, that is how you raise them. You raise them to be foot soldiers, to be little commie foot soldiers. And so when they turn out that way, don't look back in horror. I know Donald Trump is a big meanie McMean face and that justified everything. You raise your kids to be a Democrat in this country. Don't be shocked when that's how they turn out.

I still see a split between the woke Democrats and the regular ones. I have I know I have so many people I love in my life who are normal Democrats. Now we won't vote the same necessarily, but they're normal. They don't believe in this shit either. But they have to be non woke. If you're a woke Democrat, you're in danger and you're probably raising kids who are potentially in danger of being susceptible to this virus that you can catch very easily on college campuses or even high schools. And we're going to do a story when we come back about this school district out in L.A. We saw something similar in New Jersey yesterday. Canceling Halloween.

Halloween's off. It's too upsetting. Not everybody celebrates it. We can't upset the people. All right. We'll pause. We'll break. We'll come back with that. Don't go away. Jesse Kelly stays with us. Joe Biden is in some trouble, my friend. These are terrible numbers. This Gallup poll is devastating. Overall approval is at 37 percent%. His 11th quarter average approval rating,

if you look at the span of his presidency, is 40%. That's worse than Trump's. The only president who had a lower rating post-World War II was Jimmy Carter. Whenever you use that particular JC guy, it's not good. You don't want to be compared to that J.C. Among Democrats only, his approval rating is at 75 percent. It's down 11 points since last month. His approval rating with independents is only at 35. That's down four points since last month. These are devastating. This is why you have a new guy getting in against him. You got this guy, Dean Phillips, Democrat from Minnesota, who's saying, and I quote, I am the Democratic candidate who can win. He's saying very clearly Biden will lose for Trump to Trump. Biden will lose. So what do you make of this devastation? Because it looks like

Gallup suggests it's Israel that's turning his own party against him. Well, yeah, because about a quarter of the Democrat party base, they hate everything that we already elaborated on what they are. So Joe Biden can't possibly for his party, for the modern Democrat party, he can't possibly take any stance on Israel that will be acceptable to them because two-thirds of Jewish people in America, they do vote Democrat. So he has to make sure they are happy. At the same time, he has a base that believes every Israeli and every Jew should be wiped off the face of the planet by Hamas. He's trying to keep them happy as well. So no matter

what, somebody's going to be unhappy. But before this Israel stuff even kicked off, he was unpopular anyway. Look, Megan, I give him another month or two. I've maintained this. I'll be the first one to come on here and tell you I was wrong. If I'm wrong, I have long maintained for over a year. They're never going to let Joe Biden be the nominee again. The system, they have everything in place. They've taken over every institution. Everything is working out perfectly. They're not going to, for the sake of Joe Biden, allow him to risk screwing that up. They've even got a system in place now where they're going to throw in prison the likely Republican nominee before the election. They have everything set up. Everything is perfect for them. They're not going to risk anything on behalf of Joe Biden.

I give him a month or two and you and me will be sitting right here off the Joe Biden press conference and he's going to announce it'll be health problems. You know what it'll be, Megan. It's obviously he's not going to leave in disgrace. He's going to say, I have my heart. I've got a bad cough or something like that with a heavy heart. I've got to go. And he's going to resign. And then it'll be Gavin Newsom. The system is not going to allow they're not going to risk at all for Joe Biden's sake, their power, not in a million years, not in a million years. It would be interesting, though. Of course, Gavin Newsom wants it. And he's already trying to lay the foundation for that going over to Israel.

No one needs him. However, this guy, Dean Phillips, Phillips is more moderate than Gavin Newsom. Of course, I mean, everyone is. But here's how he explained the need for his presence in the race on CBS, I think, this morning. Watch it. I think President Biden has done a spectacular job for our country, but it's not about the past. This is an election about the future. I will not sit still. I will not be quiet in the face of numbers that are so clearly saying that we're going to be facing an emergency next November. Do you believe that your candidacy

could soften the ground for others to get in? I hope it does. I know it's rare for somebody entering this arena to actually invite competition, but we need it. And he should have ended that interview, Jesse, with, I am not suicidal. I am not suicidal. Well, look, obviously no one's ever heard of Dean Phillips, and so he's not going to do anything. But there's an old saying, and I'm going to screw this up because I'm uneducated white trash, about if you attack God, you don't have to defeat God.

You just have to cut God. You just have to make sure other people can see him bleed and then they will cease believing and they will all attack him and eventually win. The fact that any Democrat, including some no-name congressman no one's ever heard of before, is willing to get in the race and is now doing national interviews, that in and of itself actually is a really big deal. Even if Dean Phillips is not a big deal and won't be the nominee, that shows you the ground is shaky enough. If you're going to come with the president and challenge him in a primary, look, Gavin Newsom, as you just pointed out, he's prepped, he's ready to go. He has the campaign infrastructure already in place, prepped and ready to go. I know that for

a fact. He has the fundraising infrastructure in place. He's ready to go and they want him. So it's going to happen. Oh, my gosh. It could be Representative Jamal Bowman. What about him? He's got talents that really shouldn't be underestimated. You know, you need to be you have a flair for the dramatic in order to get ahead in presidential politics. The news update on this guy is so delicious. I can hardly contain myself for the viewers at home. Just a reference. He's the guy who pulled the fire alarm to stop the voting on the budget extension. It's like whatever the Democrats didn't want to vote. And Jamal Bowman decided to help his conference and go pull the fire alarm, which you may know is against the law. Then he tried to deny that he pulled the

fire alarm. He tried to claim that he was just innocently trying to walk out the door. And so he could do the vote. He didn't realize he was pulling a fire alarm, even though the video shows him clearly going over the little boxes reads fire and pulling the little fire thing down. I'm going to take a little bit of credit on this, Jesse, because let me show you something here. I'm going to set it up first. Here is the video that just got released. He wasn't confused. That was his defense. Oh, I was confused. I thought I was just going to go through these doors and I would be fine. But they, you know, next thing I knew they set off the fire alarm. No, you pulled the fire alarm.

The doors didn't confuse you. In fact, we now know he pulled down the two red warning signs that were on the door saying this is going to set off an alarm. Here he is. There he is. Look at him. He's removing them before our very eyes. I don't know what he does to the signs, but he is truly caught red handed, like literally red-handed. And let me take you back to when the story first broke. We discussed it on this show, October 2nd with Dave Rubin. And let me tell you what, listen to what I said. Well, if you look at the actual picture, see, this is what we see all over

the internet. Jamal Bowman's not in it. And you've got these two signs saying, press the door for three seconds and the doors will open. Alarm will sound. It doesn't say anything about the fire alarm on the wall. But if you look at the actual picture of the moment Jamal Bowman was in the fire, was in the hallway, those red signs are not there. You can see the backs of two other signs that are on the outsides of the doors. So I don't buy that the red signs caused him any confusion, which is what some people are saying. I don't buy that. There was no confusion. He pulled the fire alarm and he knew very well what they were going to do. that the red signs caused him any confusion, which is what some people are saying. I don't buy that. Aha! There was no confusion.

He pulled the fire alarm, and he knew very well what they were going to do. I'm so pleased with myself. I have to say, I didn't realize he took the signs away, but I knew his bullshit because those signs were not there. And Megan, you've been on Capitol Hill. I'm sure you've been on Capitol Hill.

What haven't you done there's cameras everywhere with the exception of maybe Las Vegas it's got to be the most surveilled area one of the most surveilled areas honestly in the world there is a camera everywhere they know when you go to the bathroom and this is a congressman who thought look honestly Jamal Bowman's an idiot obviously an, an idiot and a piece of trash. But if you think you're disappointed now, wait till you see the results of the next election. I keep saying this, Megan, we blame these politicians because we have a bunch of idiot loser politicians. But we don't have a politician problem in this country. We have a people problem.

These people are all elected. We have a people in this nation. We have a people problem. These people are all elected. We have a people in this nation. We have a culture of people, especially various parts of this country, that have no idea what they want. They're complete morons or just total communists. And they continue to go elect these people time and time again. We can point at AOC and make fun of her all we want. She won by over 70% of the vote last time. Jamal Bowman on camera just walked up and yanked a fire alarm and then lied about it. Again, all these things are on camera. They're all easily accessible. I can pick up my phone right now and pull up video of any of this stuff. Any idiot could. And Jamal Bowman will be reelected easily in his district the next time. So do we have a

Jamal Bowman problem or do we have a people problem? We have a people problem. And the people problem, we don't want to talk about that because it's much more difficult to fix. It's much more daunting. It's easy to convince yourself, I'll just get rid of Jamal Bowman and the country will be fine. Well, you could replace the entire government with a bunch of clones of Thomas Jefferson. If you still have a people problem, you fix nothing and we will fix nothing until we fix the people. It's so true. And honestly, the media, too, because if this were, you know, Senator Josh Hawley, can you imagine the amount of coverage that video would be everywhere? This guy lied. Not only did he pull the fire alarm intentionally, very he lied repeatedly to investigators, to the public. He comes. Actually, let me play the MSNBC clip at the time, because the media is a bunch of dumbasses that goes right along with any excuse to give him. This is soundbite for from when the story broke September 30. There was a mention of Jamal Bowman, Congressman Jamal Bowman, and the pulling of some sort of fire alarm. I just want to read for you some of the reporting so you understand what actually went on there. There

are some reports that began to emerge about Representative Bowman, who was seen pulling some sort of fire alarm in the Cannon House office building earlier today. We got a statement on that saying Congressman Bowman did not realize he would trigger a building alarm as he was rushing to make an urgent vote. The congressman regrets any confusion. Just to clarify some things on that. What's clarified is you're a dope and you trusted the wrong person who lied to you, who lied to investigators. Now he's pleading guilty. He's going to he's been charged with a misdemeanor of raising of raising a false fire alarm, faces a max sentence of six months in prison, which he's not going to get and a fine of up to a thousand, which I think is what he's going to pay now. But he lied to the cops. He lied to

everybody. He said, I never intended to cause a fire alarm. I never intended to cause a security concern. I never intended to disrupt or obstruct a congressional proceeding. There are guys who don't have a representative in front of their name who have been sentenced to longer actual jail time for doing far less on January 6th to disrupt a congressional proceeding. It's absurd. All right, I've got to get to this. I've got to get to this other thing before, because if I don't get to ask Jesse Kelly about this, I'm going to be very sad. Madness up north in Canada. Okay. In our next hour, we're going to be doing some stuff on the crazy trans stuff. A 50-year-old man was allowed to swim and compete against a bunch of 13-year-old girls in a swim meet.

He declared himself a girl and he was allowed to swim against nine girls who were 13 at the oldest 14 years old. His name is Nicholas Cepeda, but he goes by Melody Wiseheart. Of course he does. Melody Wiseheart. Look, Megan. Jesse. Okay, one, I admire the balls it takes to swim against 13 year old girls especially when they're 50 years old in this case quite literally and also megan this is what this is

what it's hard for people to understand about all this trans mania and why it happened so fast this isn't even the bottom megan this isn't even the bottom because this kind of insanity that's let's be honest with you when you're doing that-year-old girls and they're changing in front of them, I don't know if this guy did, but the horrible things they're doing to women. They might have been. We haven't been able to find out whether he actually made it in the locker room. It's a question mark right now. He probably did.

And the girls would be called bigots or something like that if they didn't want him in there. This stuff, this isn't even the end. It's just evil. Evil doesn't stop. It just goes down and down and down. Evil never stops. It's a black hole without a bottom. We will look back on this five, 10 years from now as the more innocent times. I know that sounds like the most insane thing in the world, but we will because evil doesn't stop on its own. It stops when good stops it and not before. I hope you're wrong.

The rebel news, those geniuses up north in Canada who are fighting the good fight are the ones who alerted us to the story. Here's a bit of their reporting on it. Watch this. How does a 50-year-old male get to compete with teenage girls? Well, it's not actually,

I don't think that it happened because I'm actually the competition coordinator for this meet. I do not recall there's a 50 years old man swimming in here on the Friday competing with little kids. It's my mistake. We did actually indeed, there was someone actually swimming on that. Okay. However, that would be Melody, right? Well, I don't know exactly because I wasn't personally, so there's no name on that list. Yes, there's a lame in here. That's why I'm saying I'm validating whatever the he sheet that you have is correct So what happened this that session is actually allow any age swimmer

I don't don't get into with me on age because it's all based on what swimming Canada's registration And what I don't understand is that nine out of the ten participants were female and either 13 or 14. And the 10th participant was a male, 50 years of age. So as I said, don't talk about gender for me because I do not know. I could I could come to an event like this. I could say I identify as a 13 year old girl and I swim with the 13 year old girls. We based on Swimming Canada registration. So the guy tried to deny it at first, then admitted it. Here's the capper.

Ready? You could see it coming. I'll give you one guess what Melody's day job is, Jesse Kelly, given what we've been discussing this hour. Oh, my gosh. Gotta be a teacher. Has to be a teacher. Yes. A college professor.

Toronto's York University. Areas of research include children. This is a sick effort. And the parents wouldn't go on camera with Rebel News. Shame on you, too. Shame on you for letting your daughters participate in that. You should have. I I Melody, I dare you to come here to Connecticut and try to play soccer on my daughter's field. It's going to be so fun. I'm going to get Jesse Kelly because the Kelly's back each other up and your ass is going to be off of that soccer field so fast. It's going to make your pretty little head spin. OK, yes. Love talking to you. You'll come right. You got you got me. Count me in, Megan. I'll book my flight tomorrow.

OK, right after you interview the Hamas protesters. I'm looking forward to next week with Jesse Kelly to be continued. We'll be right back. Now I'm joined by two psychotherapists who are deeply involved in providing sane and useful standards of care when it comes to gender identity. Can I tell you something? When this whole thing started to really explode, and at least I started paying attention to it, it was shortly around where we launched the show, which was September of 2020. And one of our first guests, you guys have heard me say it before, was Abigail Schreier, who wrote the must-read Irreversible Damage. And we talked about how the entire industry of psychotherapy for children,

when it comes to gender confusion, has been co-opted, that you can't trust these psychiatric authorities, the psychotherapy authorities, because the entire industry had adopted an affirm, affirm, affirm only standard of care. So well-meaning parents just trying to like stop this roller coaster, bringing their kids in for therapy because they accurately deduce, I think my kid's going through something and I need somebody to help them work that out, walked right into the train, right? They crashed right into it because they didn't know these therapists had been told by the American Psychiatry Association, the American Academy of Pediatrics, that the only appropriate thing to do when someone says I might be a different gender,

I'm kind of confused, is to say, you're right. You're right. And if your parents disagree, you need to stiff arm them. You're going to kill yourself if you don't get affirmed all around. It was insane. So it was very scary. I remember asking Abigail, like, well, what should parents do then? And she said, be very careful where you take them. Do not blindly trust this industry. Well, that was 2020. And this pushback by many in this field had not yet fully begun in earnest. That is where my guests today come in. Their organization is called Genspect. It's an international alliance of professionals, including trans people, detransitioners, parent groups, and others who are seeking a healthy

approach to this issue and pushing back on the insane lunacy that's being forced on our children. Stella O'Malley is the executive director and founder of Genspect, and Joe Burgo is vice director. Welcome to the show, Stella and Joe. Great to have you. Great to be here. I'm so pleased. For years now, we've been asking, where is the industry itself standing up for children? Where are the people who have devoted their lives to the wellness of kids to push back on the madness? And it seems like you guys were asking yourselves that same question. Well, it's very difficult to speak out when you're a lone voice and you get told you're a transphobic bigot,

even for asking what would be considered very conventional psychotherapeutic questions. And so an awful lot of therapists like myself and Joe and others have been silenced in a way that I had never experienced in my life before. Usually psychotherapists aren't really in the middle of the media or talking about controversial topics. Usually we're boring people with a deep psychological analysis. And yet in this world in this extraordinary world where mental distress has been weaponized into a a kind of something to bludgeon people with and silence people with it's just become a a horrendous issue and these are the most vulnerable kids these are the autistic kids kids who might one day grow up to be gay or lesbian. These are really, really vulnerable kids. It's the savvy kids aren't getting caught up in this.

It's the lost, vulnerable, sad kids that are getting lost in this whole thing. That's a good point. Jo, tell me, because you're a psychotherapist. Was there a period during which you were asking yourself the same questions I was just espousing out loud? Like, what are we doing? What is happening? This is madness.

Was there a whisper campaign amongst people in your field about what are we doing? This is madness. Was there a whisper campaign amongst people in your field about what are we doing? I had a more personal entry into this field. I had a child at the age of 14 trans-identified. This was 10 years ago before any of this was on the radar. So I went through all of this firsthand as a parent, couldn't find support in the psychotherapeutic community, was basically treated with contempt by the medical community. And I kind of went away. My child alienated herself from her family eventually. And I went away for a long time until I couldn't just sit by any longer. So I started looking around for people who were trying to offer something other than affirmative care.

And that's when I found Getta, I found Sasha Ayad, Lisa Marciano, and Stella, and originally joined one organization where Stella and I met and then signed on with Genspect when I found there were other people like me who were trying to offer something different. You must have been so relieved to find other people who seemed reasonable, right? Just not so agenda-driven. Right. Totally. Totally. And people who, I mean, therapists, the great thing is meeting other therapists who actually still believe in doing therapy. You know, that if somebody is genuinely distressed about feeling like she's a boy in a girl's body, well, there's some issues there that need to be explored. It's obviously genuine, this distress, but it doesn't require affirmation and support for this. I call it a delusional belief system. It's the distress is real and

they need real help. And so, I mean, you guys came together, Stella, you, what, talk about your origins and getting into the group and finding yourself pushing back against all of this. Well, I kind of, I had an unusual kind of route in as well. When I was a kid for very many years as a very young kid from the age of about three as well. When I was a kid for very many years, as a very young kid from the age of about three, right up through puberty. So for many, many years, I was the classic kind of childhood onset gender dysphoria.

It would have been called gender identity disorder back when I was a kid. And I certainly wasn't affirmed. Nobody was affirmed back then. I was seen as a very odd kid and I was a very odd kid. I was also an unhappy kid, but I was very, very insistent and persistent and consistent as the clinicians seek these days to find out whether they should block children's puberty. And it was the process of puberty that brought me out of a wretched, depressing experience of my childhood.

So I kind of rejected myself in the most fundamental way for many, many, many years, all through my childhood. I wanted to be a boy. I was sure I should be a boy. I was better as a boy. I made everybody see me as a boy. I was very insistent and intense about it. Then puberty came.

And with puberty comes a sexual awakening. And that sexual awakening and that sexual awakening takes years you know what I mean especially for a girl I think I think for the boy it seems to come in like a rocket yeah with a girl it's it's a subtler longer affair in many ways but certainly it wasn't actually that subtle for me but I certainly the the arrival of sexual awakening, fancying other people, realizing that I had to stop thinking of myself and start thinking about myself in terms of other people for relationships. That was the process that brought me out of gender dysphoria. So when I first heard about the idea of blocking children's puberty I literally stood still in the street saying oh you can't do that that's blocking the very thing that will actually help these kids

difficult it was was and I don't want to under undermine these kids experiences honestly my puberty was harrowing it was a train wreck it was a terrible time but it was what I needed to go through to come out the other side many years later I became a psychotherapist and learned the value of sometimes you do need to go through things to get a deeper understanding to come through it and then some years after that I was invited to take part in a film actually called trans kids it's time to talk this is 2018 um and we the concept of the film was just to ask, could any of the 4000 percent rise in female adolescents seeking medical transition? Could any of them be like me and actually be better off going through puberty naturally, having a sexual awakening, becoming a woman and becoming very happy?

You know, one of the most important, probably the most important part of me is that I'm a mother. And had I transitioned, had I been offered puberty blockers, I would have grabbed them from anybody who offered them to me. And I would have sought medical transition. And so I have quite a deep understanding of what it's like to experience it. But I also think it's really, really important that we don't let children lead it's more important for the adults in the room to take the responsibility and it can be hard to be actually let's say child centered but adult led these days the affirmative approach is child led and so the child is literally leading all the adults in the room about when to change their name what toilets to use what sports team they should go on,

what pronouns they should use. And kids can't take that much responsibility. It's too much power and they're too immature. You know, as we, I assume you guys were not sitting around watching our first hour, but the, I'm sensing a theme because we were talking about some of the madness on college campuses and how students at Stanford are now demanding that the university denounce Israel and issue statements asking for a ceasefire. They want Stanford University to put out a statement saying that. And they're demanding 24-7 trauma counselors for themselves. And it really is, to me, I see a common theme here where we're just over and over ceding authority to kids. And now by the time they get to Stanford, they're drunk on their own power. They're used to having adults bend the knee

to them like, yes, that they are in charge. They're going to make the decisions as opposed to, I think when the three of us were coming up where you understood adults were the authority figures and here and there you'd push back and you'd test the limits. But you understood who had the final say and it wasn't you. And I know that you've written and you guys both feel the thing about puberty, that it's actually a human right, that puberty is a human right. And that this so-called pause, this this like harmless pause that you get with puberty blockers is anything but. I think it's a very insidious thing to do to block somebody's sexual awakening, especially when children who have, you know, gender dysphoria are around about 70 to 80% more likely to be gay. So the little kids like me, I actually turned out to be

heterosexual, but most of them end up being lesbian or gay. So to block their sexual awakening when specifically they might have a more difficult route into their sexual self because they're sexual minorities, it's a profoundly authoritarian thing to do to come in and block somebody's development we have no idea of you know the ache you feel during adolescence that kind of loneliness it's the beginning of our search for an a mate it's the beginning of our search for for love it's it's the most profound changes happen between the ages roughly 10 to 20. And to stop that development, I think we're going to look back in horror that we tried and we succeeded in stopping people's sexual development. These are children, they hit, you know, very early

puberty. They don't even know what they are leading the way about. They don't even know what it's like to have, let's say, a yearning for a baby. That's not going to hit them until their 30s. And it's quite noticeable that, you know, some of the detransitioners are coming out and they're still only in their 20s. And one can't help but think, well, what's it going to be like when they're in their 30s? If they want to have children and they can't have children, that's still ahead of them because this is a new experimental treatment that's maybe roughly a decade old in in the large scale and it is going to be a very very difficult

kind of reckoning with the world when they realize adults blocked children's sexual development and now the children have become adults and are dealing with the fallout. If I can underscore something, I just want to underline something that Stella said about the percentage of these kids winding up lesbian or gay when they grow up. As a gay man, I'm really sensitive to this issue because it seems me, there's all this talk about conversion therapy bans. But in fact, what blocking someone's puberty is and putting them on the path to hormones and surgery, that's the conversion therapy. It's you're taking someone who, if you had left them alone, would have gone through puberty and come to terms with his or her sexuality and wound up being a somewhat gender nonconforming gay or lesbian person. And instead, what we're doing is we're converting

them into, quote, normal heterosexuals. It's outrageous to me. It would have been outrageous at any point, but especially in 2023 America, when gays have equal rights, you know, that struggle has been won. Gays and lesbians are doing better in our country than in the history of our country. There is zero reason for someone to recoil against a child seeming gay or lesbian. I mean, yes, maybe you have some religious belief, but like there are very few people, I don't know anybody anymore who's really reacting to that in the same way they did when I was a kid, like in the 1970s. Back then, maybe you would have expected more of this kind of thing. Like, oh, he's not gay.

He's secretly a girl. But for this to be happening in today's day and age is just like a new form of mental illness on the parents part. I think there's less acceptance than you might think, Megan. Even though we've got Obergefell and gay marriage, it's very hard to be a gender nonconforming kid in middle school. They're still bullying, they're still teasing. And I think this is why they opt out of it, right? You can be bullied for being a gender nonconformist, you know, a camp boy or a butch girl, but then you can just trans identify and suddenly you're a hero. You know, you're, you're no longer the bullied kid. Well, also on, on what you were saying, Stella,

on the autism, because having, you know, getting diagnosed on the autism spectrum poses all sorts of challenges and many of them are social. So if that gets flipped to, I'm not autistic, I'm just trans, once again, you go into hero status where people are clapping for you on the auditorium stage. Yeah, autistic people have a huge, there's a huge overlap with gender non-conforming children, autism, and then seeking trans identity. And, you know, as I said earlier, they are very vulnerable. But on top of that, you know, a lot of especially autistic girls are they have a later sexual development. They have a later kind of sexual reckoning.

They're coming to terms with their body, maybe body processing or body kind of sensory issues and things like that can be an issue with them. And as well as that, they can have difficulty socially because it can be very, very sophisticated in the adolescent, especially female adolescent years. That can be really hard on them. And if there's any, as Joe said said any sort of gay lesbian issue like it can just absolutely mess with their head what is interesting i just want to go back to the gay lesbian thing for one minute what is interesting about being gay or lesbian um or bisexual is you almost have to declare what turns you on at a very young age when all the heterosexual sexual kids can keep their head down and say nothing and they don't really, nobody has to declare anything except who you fancy. And so we get away without any kind of declaration of our

private sexual turn on. And it's like gay and lesbian. Can you expand on that? Why, Stella? Why do they have to declare? Because if you're gay or lesbian, you kind of have of have to declare well that turns me on or that you know a boy or a girl well heterosexuals just don't have to go there they just don't have to if you follow me because there's they're in the majority so they can just say oh yeah I fancy Jason you fancy Joseph oh that's great that we don't have to go there well somebody who actually is gay or lesbian it's you're kind of taking a left turn saying no no I fancy Michelle or Debbie and everybody's turn and said oh oh so that's that's something new and unusual there's a sexual vulnerability that you have to show what turns you on at a much

younger age well if you're in the majority nobody has to know it's just you're just rolling with the crowd nobody's asking and nobody's really expecting anything different it's it's a i think it's under acknowledged if you had to say megan or if i had to say what turned us off no thank you keep going to your point like i think that comes alive for most girls later i think at the beginning you're just kind of like, the boys are cute. I like being around them. I like attention. But actual sexual desire to be touched and have all that, that comes later for the girls,

to your point, not for the boys. I think they're ready to go. 17, let's go. A lot of these girls, it's fascinating. A lot of these teenage girls, they declare themselves as, let's say, trans boys. They're born a girl and they are also gay. So they're effectively straight girls and fancy boys. So they're lesbians? They're lesbians? No, no. Wait, they're born, they're born, what are they born? They're born girls. They identify as trans boys and they identify as

gay trans boys. And they are more common than you might think so they they are girls who fancy boys this is quite common they're straight they're straight right right okay but they also fancy that pretty looking boy you know that pretty boy thing that's not very sexual and often girls who are just beginning their sexual awakening, they begin with those pretty boys before they develop any further. And it's fascinating to hear them say, you know, as a gay guy and, you know, coming to terms with being gay and they're talking about being a trans boy.

They're not gay. They're straight girls who are posing as boys who now are saying that they're gay because they like, you know, what most women like, which is men. It's so confusing. My God, I'm holding on by a string right now. You guys trying to follow. But let me step back one second, because I like the framework in of where you guys are going. You're having a big conference. All right. It's in Denver, Colorado next week, November 4th and 5th. I love everything about this. It's you're going to be launching something called the gender framework,

a non-medicalized approach to gender. This is the thing we need. And what I read, you guys can fill in the blanks, is that you're going to be pushing back against what's known as the WPATH standards of care, the WPATH standards of care, which are insane. The WPATH standards just decided that they would eliminate the requirement that you have at least a diagnosis of gender dysphoria, which is not easy. It's not hard to get. But at least before you needed somebody to say you do have gender dysphoria before you'd get the hormones or a surgeon to start cutting off your body parts. And this group, which is like the governing body on these things, just said, you know what? You don't even need that. You just, it's just like, it's up to you. You know, your kid says he's gender dysphoric.

Go ahead. You can chop off his penis. That's crazy. So that's just one of the things that you guys are trying to push back on one of the WPATH regulations or pronouncements. Can you put it in context for us? What is WPATH and why does it need an alternative, which is what you're doing? Well, WPATH started in about 1979. It was a fringe organization. Very, very few people were interested in medical transition and it was out on its own and it was kind of self-identified authority for medical transition. All that went in it released these standards of care over the next few decades. So the first one was released in 1979. They kept on releasing different standards and their most recent was released in 1979. They kept on releasing different standards and their most recent was released in 2022, which was the eighth version of their standards of care.

And I would argue that it's quite a medicalised approach to gender diversity, i.e. it is showing the road ahead about how to medicalise, the difficulties with medicalisation, the different complications that maybe a doctor might have and how to resolve them. And it's like looking at gender identity through a medical prism. And there isn't enough evidence base. There is no quality evidence base to support these standards of care. So arguably, it's a self-identified standards of care because it's not really meeting the criteria for what usually a medical standards of care would be considered and so what it is is it's a lot of recommendations that have a very low

quality evidence base in the research because the numbers are very small the follow-up after surgery is diabolical the tracing of you know for example post-medical transition suicide the rates of that they they don't do good follow-up studies so we don't know what happens after five years or 10 years or 15 years there's very few studies and the numbers are very small and the amount the number of people who are lost to follow up in these studies would make your head spin and make you think i can't take this research seriously at all. So rather than Genspect offering another medical approach and saying, well, we were worrying about this and we're worrying about this and the quality of the research is low, we decided to turn the entire concept on its head and offer instead a framework

for society. So this is a framework for schools, for prisons, for sports, for teachers, for psychotherapists, for families, for parents, for the whole of society. It's a framework that is like a policy document and we're launching it in Denver at our conference. You go onto our website, Genspec.org, you'll easily find details about our conference. We're going to launch it at our conference and it's going to be open for public review and consultation for the next nine months. And then we're going to launch the official version next September. And why we're having our conference in Denver and Colorado is we've realized that over time, the silencing of people like ourselves has been very, very detrimental to these young, gender diverse kids. The people have been the really really concerned

people like myself and joe we've been silenced so often that we needed to kind of fight back in quite an assertive way so what we've done is wherever w path who are you know considered the authority on transgender health care wherever they have their conference we have our conference in the same town at the same time so that clinicians can go to both conferences so that we are challenging the mindset, the kind of the very, very unevidenced, narrow mindset that the only approach to being distressed about whether you're a boy or a girl or wanting to be a man or a woman, that the only approach is a medical approach. Instead, we're offering our non-medicalized approach, saying, well, how about we look at gender in another way?

It's almost like the psychotherapists are in one conference saying, why don't you deepen your relationships? Why don't you get to know your body and maybe make friends with your body? Why don't you maybe get in touch with sports or maybe art, poetry, music, maybe friendships or love? I'm not sure what it is

that's going to kind of get somebody out. There's lots of ways into gender dysphoria. There's lots of ways out of gender dysphoria. While up the road, arguably, the psychiatrists are talking about the different doses, the different kind of medication that is needed. So imagine if the psychotherapists were talking about depression, we'd be talking about all this kind of non-medicalised approach, while psychiatrists could be arguably talking about a medicalized approach. Joe might disagree with me with this analogy. But in GenSpec, we're offering a non-medicalized approach to gender saying, you know, dress whatever you want. Like J.K. Rowling's tweets, dress whatever you want, do whatever you want, present however you want.

But that doesn't mean you can impose your gender identity on the rest of the world. That doesn't mean you can go into any team sports or be a 50 year old in a 13 year old swimming race or whatever. That doesn't give you carte blanche to do whatever you want because of your identity. Rather, you have to negotiate your life within society. And if you have gender diversity, there's lots of ways you can approach that. And it doesn't have to be hormones. It doesn't have to be mastectomies. It doesn't have to be phalloplasties or vaginoplasty. It doesn't have to be any of that. Just on one last

point, the standards of care that was released by WPATH last year, 2022, it was an extraordinary document. They have a chapter on eunuch identities. Now, this is kind of going back to Roman days where men were castrated. And it's extraordinary to see this eunuch identity being offered up as if it's a healthy approach to somebody's gender distress, where they would, like I say, it's a castration. They also had a chapter on ethics and they removed the chapter on ethics. Not only did they remove the chapter on ethics, they removed all the age minimum requirements for surgical interventions other than phalloplasty. So they might have had, even though I wouldn't have agreed with them because they were very, very young, they might have had minimum age requirements for a mastectomy to be 14 or, you know, different kind of interventions to be different ages.

Honestly, I think that's ridiculously and way too young, but they removed them all. So there's actually no minimum age requirement. And not only that, the harrowing stories of the detransitioners, I have no doubt you're going to ask us about them. Those awful, sad, terrible, terrible stories, they were reframed as just another step on a gender journey. As in, you know, you might detransition, that's done, you know, it's not as if something dreadful and medical malpractice has taken place. Rather, you've taken another step on your journey. So because WPath have so badly lost their way, we feel it's very necessary to kind of, as such, have a conference in the same town as they're having. So Denver,

Colorado. And then again, yeah. And just so people know WPATH stands for World Professional Association for Transgender Health. But did they, you know, I know that the American Psychiatric Association, they've been captured by know that the American Psychiatric Association, they've been captured by this, the American Academy of Pediatrics, they've been captured by this. So, I mean, would this be something that a school district, a parent in a school that's doing the we're affirming behind the parents back with this? Eventually, what you're creating be a document that, you know, Joe, a parent could walk in there and say, oh, no, no, look at this. This is all America's psychologists.

These are credentialed people. includes model guidance for schools and school districts to replace the one that's currently in effect, which basically validates gender ideology and treats it as established fact. So yeah, there's model legislation, there's model schools policies, there's a lot of material that's going to be useful to members of society across the board. And I want to sort of emphasize this point that Stella made is that, you know, this is a document that's geared not just to parents and children who are suffering from gender dysphoria, but it's a civilization-wide challenge to gender ideology, which has now been codified in laws, in school policies, treated as if it's fact when it's completely unevidenced. We feel that really, if we're going to do anything about gender dysphoria, if we're going to treat it in a different way from what WPATH is recommending, it has to be a society-wide challenge to the way gender ideology has taken hold everywhere, including Megan, as you mentioned, the American Academy of Pediatrics. I mean, it's everywhere.

Did you, Joe, did you experience this on the parent level, like the society around, I don't know how long ago that happened for you, but where everybody else was like affirming and wanting to set your daughter down this one path and you were back there going, whoa, whoa, whoa. Well, totally. I mean, earlier in my practice, one of my very first cases when I was in training was a young woman who would today be identified as trans identified, who insisted she was a boy. And I worked with her for years and helped her come to terms with being a woman. And she became a mother. And it was a really satisfying experience for me. And so when my daughter announced that she was trans identified, I already had some pretty well-developed views on this topic and what might be going on. Plus, I knew my

daughter better than anybody else who was treating her. So yeah, I was like, this is insane. I mean, I think I probably wasn't terribly diplomatic. I think I was probably a little bit disdainful in saying, you can't become a boy. It's impossible to change your sex. I'm sorry. I just was very impatient with it. by the system of support all around her. Even then, this was 10 years ago. So the therapists, the teachers, the friends, everybody's championing her as heroic for coming out as trans. So what are you supposed to do in that position if you're a parent? I work with a lot of teens whose parents have asked me to see them because they're trans identified. And they're trying to, so Stella has done this work too. You're trying to hold off from medicalizing. And I've lately come to feel very pessimistic about working with that cohort, with the kids only, because so much of the rest of the world is telling them something

completely different. I mean, how do you challenge a delusion when so much of the rest of the world is telling them something completely different. I mean, how do you challenge a delusion when so much of the world, teachers, friends, online people, are affirming the delusion? How do you... I don't know. You're so right, but isn't this all part of it? when I look at the trans activists who can be absolutely rabid, and it's usually quote trans women, it's biological men who are posing or dressing, trying to appear as women. They're so rabid. And it's, I think because they want, they insist that we participate in their delusion. They, they have insisted in every corner that everyone go along. And we have forgotten, especially as women, I, that this is a man

trying to tell me who I need to allow in my bathroom, in my daughter's locker room. You know, I mean, from, from the beginning of time, not to get totally feminist on you, but like women have had men trying to force them to do things that are not in their best interest. They have faced threats from men. They've also had amazing experiences with men. This is not a male hating show, but the biggest danger that has been posed to women historically has been from men. And here they are again. It's like a wolf in sheep's clothing. They may have achieved looking somewhat like us. And then they are again. It's like a wolf in sheep's clothing. They may have achieved looking somewhat like us. And then they demand that they who remain men and in many cases are still

dangerous, be allowed access to our spaces. And because they've changed their look and their label, we're now supposed to take it. We're now supposed to say right this way and nothing other than you're welcome. Or we risk what being called a bigot, being called a nasty name, maybe potentially not getting a college recommendation or a job recommendation. So what? Like the stakes are very high, very high for women and their supporters, men too, to say, no, we're stopping this madness. Yeah. I wish more women would speak up. I think women are intimidated to challenge the orthodoxy. Stella? Yeah. Well, I think an awful lot of women are speaking up and they're being shouted down. I think an awful lot of women speak up and are maybe quickly cowed. I'm not sure, but it's certainly in my experience. I know so many women who aren't happy and so many women who say I'm afraid to speak or I spoke and I wasn't popular or I spoke and I was judged.

And I I had some approbation and I'm not speaking up again. I do. I'm the same as you, Joe. Yeah, I wish more people would speak up. I think people are starting to. It's been a shocking experience watching how few people would stand up in the face of what was clearly a terrible medical scandal that's unfolding on young vulnerable children. But now I think people are starting to stand up. I do think activism has kind of reached extraordinary proportions in the last 10 years. Maybe it's social media driven. It certainly feels like a very febrile atmosphere that we're living in these days.

And it does feel like, you know, a Twitter pile on or whatever. It can be so frightening that in a lot of ways we're kind of, we're just kind of, we're digital virgins getting used to this kind of cruel world online and so a lot of people keep their head down i think they can't anymore that's how we got into this mess you know it's like i i said and i i know people may think it was harsh shame on those those parents up in canada for not going on the record with rebel news. I applaud the one who alerted rebel news, but the others, if you, if you don't stand up, you are part of the problem. And if you can't stand up for yourself, you have to stand up for your daughter.

What parent of a 13 year old would let a 50 year old man get in the pool and God forbid the locker room with his or her daughter. I, and I know Canadians are much nicer as a rule than we are, and they don't like confrontation as a rule, but you must have it or you're going to get a whole lot more of this. That man doesn't get to work out his delusion. And we'll talk about it. Likely sexual fetish next to a bunch of young teen girls, 13, the youngest teen you can be. It's not healthy. It's not, it's not safe for those girls. Right. Stand by Stella. Hold that thought. Cause I'm going to squeeze in a quick break and I'll come right back with Stella and Joe. Unbelievable. Great discussion. Can we spend a minute on the pronouns? Because the pronouns too are problematic and what they're doing in the schools with this, just like quietly affirm, change the pronouns, change the

name and don't tell the parents. I came from New York city, the private school system, and now the public are both on that same plan. Don't tell the parents if the child doesn't want it. Keep it entirely secret from them. And I find the pronouns very disturbing. I've told my kids not to say them, not even to say their own pronouns if asked. I don't want them playing the gender game. I really find it offensive.

And I know you guys have some thoughts on, like, there there are you can opt out of the pronouns. It's these children should not be forced to say the pronouns. Is that correct, Stella? Yeah, I think everybody who's ever worked with children, teachers included, would know that we always bring the parents with us. You don't triangulate. You don't alienate the parents by excluding them from decisions around the child. And It's no big deal. But these days, if a parent disagrees around pronouns, it's been reframed as if it's something dangerous for the child, for the parent to disagree with them. And these overenthusiastic, overstepping teachers are choosing to collude with the child, change the pronouns, and the whole school might know about it, but apparently the parents can't. It's alienating the parents, it's excluding the parents. And we've worked a lot

in Genspec with the parents. They have had the most devastating experience of being left out when their child was at their lowest, at their most miserable, being left out of the care of their child because they didn't know. So maybe they didn't know for six months until they got the end of term report. And the end of term report says Charlie, not Charlotte. If then, if then in New York, they keep it a secret from you the whole time. And that's the, that's the thing is like you guys, I know have raised questions, Joe, about who are these teachers who think they have the psychological training and background necessary to handle a child's social transition and what we know comes after it? I think they're people who have come out of universities and graduate schools that are

indoctrinated with gender ideology. And they're passionate social justice warriors about this kind of ideology, and they take it from the academy into the schools and inflict it on their students. It's really a scandal. You know, there was this law, Gavin Newsom ultimately vetoed it, but the legislature in California passed a law that would allow the states to remove the child from their parents if the parents refused to affirm their gender identity. That's how far this erosion of parental authority has gone. It's insane.

Like Estella said, throughout human history, society has always backed up the parents as the ultimate authority in the rearing of their children. No longer the case. It's very dark. And that brings me to the detransitioning thing, because this too gets buried. It gets buried by the news media for the most part, by the trans activist crowd. They don't want to talk about it. And I know one of you guys was saying, I read somewhere, I think it was you, Stella, that in the sort of the Reddit detransitioning group, you know, 10 years ago used to have like a thousand and now it's got over 50,000. This is it's growing. The detransitioner group is growing and they're, of course, unhappy.

And in some great cases, they're suing, which I do think is the way forward. Yeah, no. And the numbers are more shocking than that i first started following detrans reddit in 2019 and there was less than a thousand members and now it's 2023 and people can go online right now and look at detrans reddit and there's about 50 000 so it's grown from 1 000 50,000 since 2019. They are extraordinary numbers. That's not saying that every one of them, it's around, I think, 70% are detransitioners and the rest are people like myself who are interested. You only have to go on that Reddit page for 10, 20 minutes and you get it. You realize these were people who were vulnerable at their lowest step and thought transition.

There's nothing more alluring in life to be told you could be a different person with a different name and a different body. And people will think of you and they'll never be able to refer to your old self, your old, shameful, humiliated self. Instead, you could be maybe like one of those YouTube influencers. There's nothing more bewitching to tell somebody who's maybe a bit naive, maybe a bit gullible, maybe a bit self-loathing. They're like, yes, sign me up. I'll be somebody different and I'll have a cool name. It's going to be amazing. And so they sign up to this idea that they can be somebody different. And then they end up the same person with a different body that has often been extremely

damaged by hormones, by surgery, by some really, really difficult interventions that don't go well because the evidence base isn't good. And these are really complicated interventions. On the little pamphlet, they're not advertising no sexual gratification, potentially no sexual climax, no children, no breastfeeding. And if you decide to have these procedures like the phalloplasty, where they try to construct a fake penis, the odds of you being in for surgery after surgery and complication after complication are astronomical. There are way more complications than there are surgeries. So that means each patient who gets one of those surgeries is likely back multiple times. Of course, of course, because you can't build a fake penis. It's not a thing. They're selling a bill of goods to these kids. that issue there was a there was an article about the on the cover the trans man who had a you know

his fake penis installed and there's a whole long article he'd written it's shocking shocking but the good news is the detransitioners are coming back they're suing the AAP it's a very very bold strong statement to sue the AAP who who brought in ridiculous guidelines in 2018. And they are suing effectively clinicians who are affirmative. And these children, like, you know, one of the detransitioners who's who's bringing in the lawsuit. She was 14. She was autistic. She'd had sexual trauma. Her parents had split up. She had ADHD. She was a very vulnerable person. And now she's 20 saying, you should have been the adults in the room. You should have given me guidance at my lowest step.

I needed adults. I needed people to look after me. And instead they sold me a bill of goods, like you said. Not people with an agenda. That's, that's the thing about psychotherapy. You know, I've gotten therapy for years. My guy, he doesn't have an agenda. His only agenda is helping me figure out things for myself. He's not pushing his views on me or trying to guide me in a way that he thinks is appropriate for his life or for society. You know, he helps me seek wellness. What they're doing, these social justice warriors who cloud themselves under the cloak of therapy, you know, titles is so manipulative. That's the lawsuits are entirely valid. I pray that they succeed because it's like everything in America. No one listens until the lawyers get involved. And, you know, we, we criticize the lawyers,

but they listen. Once you get sued and your business is on the line, you will change. And here's the thing about those lawsuits, Megan, is that for every one of those people who's brave enough to come forward and to file a lawsuit, there are hundreds of kids who are too ashamed and frightened to say anything. Because, you know, if you decide that you no

longer believe in the whole trans myth, your former friends and allies will come after you, and they will try and destroy you. They'll attack you and humiliate you in social media. It's very expensive to file a lawsuit. So I don't know. There's just so many kids who are just quiet and suffering. In silence. Joe, may I ask how things landed with your daughter? She would be about 24 now. She has reconnected with her mother.

And given my position in this community, I'm persona non grata. She wants nothing to do with me. So she transitioned to male, and that's how she's choosing to live her life. And with disastrous mental health consequences, I won't go into details, but it hasn't worked out well. It's just been a, yeah. Thank you. I'm so sorry. I applaud you for doing something to make something positive come out of it. You know, you, if you don't feel like you can help her, you can help other kids. You know, the kids of parents who are listening to this show right now who feel lost, like I'm sure you did when it was going on.

So God bless you for finding the courage to do it. You too, Stella. I mean, I'm sure there's been blowback on both of you because for the reasons we discussed is a very vicious group of people. But for the parents who are listening to this, what is the reasons we discussed, it's a very vicious group of people. But for the parents who are listening to this, what is the document or the website or the thing that they can look up to begin learning all the things that we discussed today? Well, if you go on to genspec.org, you'll see the conference next week. It can be live streamed. There's also, from next week, we have the the gender framework available and that would be something that the parents can wave at their schools and say here's

a policy document that has an alternative vision and we also have a lovely service that joe runs called beyond trans and that um offers good thoughtful therapy you know funding for people who've been hurt by medical transition and so so there, there is a lot out there finally, after so many people have been lost in the wilderness. Yeah. Finally, again, so the audience, it's Jen, like gender, Jen, spect, like the end of respect, Jen, spect.org.org, not.com. Thank you both so much, Stella and Joe. It's so nice to meet you. Appreciate all your good hard work. Thanks for having us on Megan. Appreciate it. Wow. You're not alone out there. Parents, if you're dealing with this, you've got great people like this who have been through it, who are trying to help pay attention and you can join in too. If you think it's too late for you

and your kid, think again, you know, if you get in there at the right time, maybe, maybe you can run an intervention that will help your child before it is too late. I want to say thanks to all of you for joining us this week. It's been busy, right? But I'm so glad to have you along with me. I feel like we've been through a lot these past few weeks and sending my, all my love to all of you. And I feel yours right back. We'll talk on Monday. Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.