The Megyn Kelly Show - Nolan Wells Alternate Scenarios, the Dangers of Online Games, and Catching Predators, with Chris Hansen | Ep. 1367

Episode Date: July 24, 2026

Megyn Kelly discusses the latest developments in the Nolan Wells case, Wells' best friend speaking out and revealing the last moment he saw Wells, new details about how Wells' family found out he was missing, fact-checking a Democratic politician getting all the facts of the Nolan Wells story wrong, the politician spreading racial lies about the circumstances, and more. Then Chris Hansen, investigative journalist and host of "Takedown," joins to discuss why Nolan Wells' best friend speaking out appears credible, the different scenarios which could explain what happened to Wells after his friends left, why it's good the police aren't getting ahead of the case in the media, his years on NBC's "To Catch a Predator," behind-the-scenes stories from his predator investigations, why he calls the children's game Roblox "a playground for predators," the risks kids face while engaging with adult strangers, the disturbing online group of criminals known as "764," some of his most shocking predator confrontations, his calm interview strategy when faced with these criminals, practical steps parents can take to protect their children online, the dangers of social media and our new digital environment, and more.   More from Chris Hansen- watchtrublu.com   ARMRA: go to https://tryarmra.com/MEGYN to get 30% off your first subscription order Supersure Insurance: Upgrade your business insurance to a year-round SuperAgency at https://Supersure.com/Megyn American Financing: Call American Financing today to find out how customers are saving an average of $800/mo. NMLS #182334 https://nmlsconsumeraccess.org. APR for rates in the 5s start at 6.327% for well qualified borrowers. Call 800-852-2010 for details about credit, costs and terms. Visit https://AmericanFinancing.net/MegynKelly . Average savings based on borrowers who save over $199.99 Birch Gold: Text MK to 989898 and get your free info kit on gold     Follow The Megyn Kelly Show on all social platforms: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/MegynKelly Twitter: http://Twitter.com/MegynKellyShow Instagram: http://Instagram.com/MegynKellyShow Facebook: http://Facebook.com/MegynKellyShow Find out more information at:https://www.devilmaycaremedia.com/megynkellyshow Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Welcome to The Megan Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East. Hey, everyone, I'm Megan Kelly. Welcome to the Megan Kelly Show and happy Friday. We have a first time guest coming up who has a fascinating career, both in journalism and catching predators. We'll get to that in a minute. But first, there have been significant developments in the death of 18-year-old Nolan Wells in Mississippi and the investigation into it. the young man who says he's Wells's best friend, providing new insight into why Wells stayed on the island rather than returning with his friends to the mainland, and how Nolan's phone came back on the boat. Also new information on how the search for Nolan Wells began when his friends and others realized that he was missing.

The district attorney in this case is also speaking out, saying the autopsy report will be withheld until, a grand jury can review it, which is the normal process in Mississippi. It's unfortunate because tongues are wagging. People are being irresponsible, pushing false narratives, and until the official narrative comes out and gets clarified, it's only going to get worse. And a U.S. Congressman, speaking of that, spreading unbelievable lies and inflammatory accusations in a new interview about the case. We will be fact-checking him. He's the son of the late Jesse Jackson, who would be ashamed. I think you would be ashamed of this behavior. Wells was last seen alive Saturday, July 4th, after spending the day with high school friends drinking and enjoying the holiday on

Horn Island, just off of Mississippi. Two days later, his body was found by a park ranger face down in the water with his swim trunks on. The next day, Wells' parents hired Benjamin Crump, a lawyer known for representing the families of George Floyd, Floyd, Bionta, Taylor, and Jacob Blake. Crump's legal team was quick to exploit the situation, injecting race into it, even though Nolan Wells was a black boy and had a bunch of white friends, all of whom seemed to love him very much. They've all been tard as racists. Why? We're not sure other than they had white skin, and they were friends with him and were with him that day. Crumps legal team is worried, they say, that local authorities might cover up a potential murder because the people

that he was with that day, his lifelong friends, are white. The local sheriff, John Ledbetter, says Wells's friends were cooperating, that they have been cooperating, and that investigators do not suspect foul play in this case. But they say the investigation is ongoing. Warren Hudson was one of the boys with Wells that day. He says Wells was his best friend, Warren's White. During the search for Wells, who, I mean, it should be obvious by this point, but Nolan was black. Hudson's family began receiving death threats, including this one that his stepmom posted online, just to show what was happening against her two younger children. This is Hudson's two younger kids or two younger siblings, like this one, quote, these two are going to be strangled till their eyes go red

and lips turn blue. Here's another quote, there will be a package coming. It's going to blow you away. So much blood everywhere, hard to clean, especially from a boat, but yours will be quick, I promise. Hudson gave an interview to former police officer turned a podcast host, Brandon Tatum. Hudson said, Wells decided to stay behind rather than get on. He had traveled over to the island on three boats, a group of them. There were some 30 of them. And there were thousands of kids and others at the island. This is a very well-attended event. It was a regular hot for all of them. This drill was very familiar to all of them. Well, the one boat that Hudson had traveled over on went back a little earlier than the others. It went back, I think it docked around 430 back on the mainland because it was

taking on water. And according to Hudson's stepmother, their bilge pump wasn't working. There is a phone call by this group of boys to, I think, the Coast Guard saying, help, we think we're sinking. They did not sink, but they did have a problem. So they left early. And they spoke to Nolan Wells, their buddy who traveled over with them saying, get on the boat, we're going back. And Hudson says Nolan Wells decided to stay behind for a girl. You remember we talked about her just a little earlier this week, two days ago. And our reporter from the New York Post, Caitlin, told us that there was one unconfirmed report

online by the mother of someone named Katie saying, Katie's my daughter. She spoke with Nolan Wells briefly. It was a passing thing. She doesn't know what happened, basically. Not that explicitly about she doesn't know what happened, but it was just a sort of fleeting encounter, and that was the end of that. And now we're learning more about this girl

that Nolan Wells was talking to. And indeed, her name was Katie. So Hudson, and this podcast says that Nolan Wells decided to stay behind for a girl, even after his friend yelled at him to get on the boat back to the mainline. watch. The last time I saw Nolan was three o'clock. And Nolan was cradling a girl in his arms, Katie, you know, Katie. And Katie, Nolan was sitting there. And the last time I saw him,

I looked at Nolan, and Nolan was like shaking his head, laughing. And I was like, dude, you crazy. I was like just joking with him. And, uh, but anyway, Nolan, that was the last time I laid eyes on him. But when we were leaving, obviously, no one is getting left at the island that came with us unless they demanded to, you know, be there and asked, you know, this is a very common thing at Horn Island. When you're out there, a lot of people ride out there with someone and in with somebody else all the time. I've done that a hundred times. You know, it's a very common thing but uh nolan was sitting by the boat with that katie girl and my buddy yelled at you know yelled for nolan nolan get it get on the boat we're leaving the boat the boat's about the boat's having

issues and like no he didn't say that but he was panicking nolan get the f on the boat get on the boat and no one said no i'm staying out here i'm going to ride in with somebody else and it's not uncommon to here, but it's not like my buddy asked him one time. My buddy asked Nolan multiple times to get on the boat. Nolan, get on the boat. Get on the boat. We're leaving. If you're coming, you got to come now.

And Nolan made a decision to stay out on the island. And I heard the girl that he was with Katie had text somebody. Yeah. That she heard people yelling for Nolan to get on it. Is that true? And I have a picture of that. She texts my buddy. And the next day, everybody was.

was panicking and everybody's texting Katie, you know, because she was obviously seen with Nolan the whole day at the island. Katie sent a message to my buddy the next day and said, you know, this is the last time I saw him, you know, he's really sweet. But she also mentioned that the last time she saw Nolan was when my buddy was yelling at him to get on the boat. And she was right there to see that Nolan decided not to. Hmm.

So what happened to him? I mean, one way or another, he wound up dead floating in the water. And the preliminary medical report doesn't, at least they've chosen not to tell us what it indicates other than the sheriff saying, no signs of foul play. Now, Hudson, the man interviewed there, says it was not unusual for people to ride out to the island on one boat and get back to the mainland on another boat. You heard of that there. He said, Wells had been to this island, numerous. times over the years. As for how Nolan Wells' phone remained on the boat, the one that went back to the mainland. Hudson said there were several phones left on his boat when he returned to the mainland. Watch. How many people left the phone on the boat? Was it just, was it just his phone when y'all left or other people have phones on the boat? Absolutely not. Like there was, at least, well, I had to, I rode out here on a different boat, like I told you, and I grabbed my boat. I mean, I just, I

grabbed my phone when I left the Palm Beach to get on the boat with Triton, I mean to get on the boat with why because we're having, you know, boat issues. And when I got on the boat, there was phones everywhere on the console. I mean, everywhere. Like, I mean, there was, everybody's phone that was sitting around the boat was on the console. Like, we had phones that we didn't even know who's they were, you know, and people just leave their phone, especially when people are drinking and, you know, they're not in the right state of mind. A lot of people are like, oh, I'll just leave my phone, and I'll get it later, you know, and that's the way it is around here. You know, you don't take your phone and walk around the island. You know, there's plenty of phones on the boat

and, you know, spread out between the three boats that we had. And I mean, we had 20 plus people on the spread between our three boats. So, of course, everybody's phone was on the, I never saw someone in the water that day, sitting with their phone in their hand, scrolling on anything or even taking pictures in the water. Yeah, someone might hop out the boat. You know, a lot of of girls like to take pictures, you know, in the water. And so do guys, but, you know, girls want to take pictures of the water. Half a second, you might hop out the boat and be like, oh, I'm snapping this picture of myself or of someone else. But as soon as I get back in the boat, I'm putting my phone up and I'm getting back in the water and I'm hanging out with my friends. Hudson also talked

about realizing none of the friends knew where Nolan was later that evening and how he was the first one to call Nolan's mother and alert authorities. And all my friends are just hanging out. And I, I, my buddy Y had addressed, you know, you know, talking about Nolan. And I was like, well, where is Nolan? Have you all heard from him? And he was like, uh, no, we haven't. And I was like, okay, well, it's a little concerning. Like, I mean, I'm not, I'm not freaking out or anything, but like, I'm trying to find out where Nolan is. So I texted Javon. And I was, like, hey, and also a couple other buddies that I had at the island. I was like, hey,

have y'all seen Nolan? Did he ride in with y'all? And all the others were like, no. Well, I texted Javlon, and I was like, hey, can you send me Ms. Christine's number? Because I haven't heard from Nolan. And if she hasn't heard from Nolan, then I'm calling the Coast Guard. And so eventually, uh, Javon sends me her number. I call Ms. Christine, call her the first time. She didn't answer. I called her a second time. And I got a little. on the phone with her and she uh I asked her she had heard from Nolan she said no and I said all right well don't freak out I'm going to call the Coast Guard and this was at about 11 o'clock so what's your intent and calling the Coast Guard right because right now Nolan could be with

a chick he could be with somebody else right he could have gone back with somebody's what what made you concerned enough that you felt like you couldn't weigh it out anymore you had the call to Coast Coast Guard. Well, I mean, like I said, my friends and I have been on the water a whole life. Stuff happens. People die all the time. I know people that have died out there. And, you know, it's a fun place to be, but it's also a very, very dangerous place to be if you're not handling it right.

I mean, I would rather call the Coast Guard a hundred times and lose my mind over it and my buddy be okay than, you know, not. And, you know, me not know where he is and him not be okay. Hudson said he went out to the island the next day to help with the service. and that he was heartbroken when he learned that Nolan Wells' body had been found. On Wednesday, Benjamin Crump delivered the results of an independent autopsy. The Crump team ordered up delivered that to media and a large crowd during the NAACP National Convention in Chicago. In it, their independent medical examiner concludes that he could not determine the manner or cause of death. The report states that one of the reasons is because Wells'

forgive me, throat was missing, but it goes on to state, quote, the retention of the anterior neck structures during an initial autopsy is a common forensic pathology practice. In other words, this was done by the state's medical examiner pursuant to common forensic practice. Even Crump's team is not suggesting this was as a result of some. someone causing him harm while he was alive. The district attorney speaking out yesterday regarding when the public can expect the state's official autopsy report, she said it will be withheld until the grand jury review, which is typical in the state. The jury will then, grand jury determine whether a crime has been committed and

if so, whether there is enough evidence to indict someone. She said, quote, the pressure for answers does not change what the work requires, but the absence of the official autotivism. Report, no press conferences by law enforcement, and the involvement of Benjamin Crump and Al Sharpton has allowed this case to explode with misinformation. The latest example is an interview with U.S. Congressman Jonathan Jackson by TMZ. Mr. Jackson represents Illinois's first congressional district. He is the son of the late Jesse Jackson. Jackson Jr. appearing to have zero understanding of this case before he shot off his mouth. It's Nolan Wells case. It's taking a lot of different twists and turns. I wanted to get your thoughts on it. What do you think about it thus far?

Well, the phone has been erased and the parents have had to ping it. There's been no clear investigation. I think it reeks of a cover-up. There is a pattern of deception and denial and cover-up. You think there's a cover-up. So who are you pointing the finger at? Well, I first start with the legal authorities. They should do a thorough investigation. That the phone was separated from the child. He was, our body was returned to an alternate location, that the messages have been erased, that the family had to independently retrieve the phone. These are all things that the sheriff should have done. Okay. He doesn't know what he's talking about. Did you hear him there say the phone has been erased? That's not true.

The facts are that Nolan Wells' parents said they found it concerning and they're suspicious that they say Wells's Snapchat contained. no photos, videos, or messages from July 4th. And while that may sound unusual in today's day and age, as you heard Warren Hudson say just a moment ago, usually when they go out on the island, they leave their phones on the boat while they're in the ocean and walking around in the island. Have you ever done such a thing? I have. You don't take your phone in there. You don't want it to get wet in the ocean. It's like one of the last few places on Earth that we don't take our cell phones. It's just ridiculous. So the parents found it suspicious that there were no July 4th videos or photos on his phone.

The phone had not been wiped. You have no idea whether that's the case, sir. How dare you say that in a position of authority as a U.S. congressman? Watch it. Watch it. This case doesn't need more misinformation getting dumped because, as I just pointed out, the families are getting death threats now. Now, all these boys who are Nolan's best friends are getting threatened. for nothing because the fact that they were white and friends with him. It's outrageous.

Crump also said that his team and Jackson County investigators are going to conduct a mutual inspection of Nolan's phone, so we'll see where that leads. But as of right now, it has not been established, not anywhere close, that the phone has been erased. Mr. Jackson, they're also saying the parents had to ping it and independently retrieve the phone. Well, that may be true, but the parents pinged the phone and retrieved it after being alerted that Nolan was missing by Hudson, as you heard there when he's called Miss Christine. They weren't trying to cover up the fact that they couldn't find Nolan. They were the ones who called the parents' attention to the fact that they couldn't find

Nolan. The Coast Guard confirmed to the local CBS outlet in Biloxi that they were first contacted by a friend of Wells. They didn't give a name to the outlet, but you heard Hudson there saying he called called the Coast Guard. And finally, the congressman said, quote, the body was returned to an alternate location. I don't actually have any idea what the F he's talking about. Early on in this case, Benjamin Crump shared a photo of Nolan Wells, alive and well at a nighttime pool party and claimed that it showed Wells with friends on the mainland the evening of July 4th, the very night that he went

missing. So July 4th, nighttime. But the photo was actually taken a week prior to that in late June. And Rolling Stone, which got the photo from one of these kids, actually confirmed that using metadata from the image. So I don't, what does he mean the body was returned to a dead? Like, I have no idea what he's saying. Nolan was left behind on the island. He was not seen again, as far as we know, we haven't found a person who saw him, other than what you heard Hudson say about Katie, until he was found dead Monday morning. Then to end his interview, Congressman Jackson brought up everyone wait for it because we've heard it every day on this show from people who are trying to inject race into situations unfairly, unfoundedly. Emmett Till.

Well, if you talk about five or seven young white guys and one African-American child, they're out swimming, he ends up dead and seems to have been a bit of a scuffle or some altercation. I'm not quite sure. And then everyone leaves their one friend behind who just happens to be black. Well, this is also, as we speak today, the anniversary, the date of Emmett Till's birth. And so I come from Chicago, and that was the Mississippi case. So history is repeating itself again. There's a melody that comes from injustice. Wow.

That the people that killed the Emmett Till, they knew who did it, and they never were prosecuted. The young people that were around, Mr. Wells, they know something and they've never been thoroughly interrogated. I want the young people to say what they know. I see they're lowered up. They're behind their family members that have judges. They've had days and weeks to corroborate stories. And so we need an independent investigation.

The family had to independently retrieve their voice matches themselves. The state has not lifted a finger then or now with Emmett Till or with Wells to get to the murderer of a young black child. I would like to see a federal investigation. So irresponsible. This is so irresponsible. They've never been thoroughly interrogated. The police said that they have been cooperating from the start. As you heard there, Hudson is the one who brought authorities into this in the search for Nolan. Earlier, you heard him say there's been a pattern of deception and denial. No, there hasn't. By whom? Not a single alleged deception or

denial has been identified or named. Not one. Not by Nolan's friends. And they're literally you heard him it's just their race it's the fact that they're white boys and their their black friend is missing that is so unfair what is this like is he trying to disincentivize young white men from having a black friend because god forbid something happens to him they're going to get blamed because of skin color that is so outrageous these we are past that you moron we are thank god at the point where whites have friends who are black blacks have friends who are are white. Usually they don't give it a thought. If it comes up at all, it's a joke between the two of them or the group of them. I've seen this with my own eyes and ears. I don't know what kind of

circles he's in, but it is very common to have whites and blacks friends, including at the teenage level. And it's not a thing. No one's thinking about the skin color. And if they are, it's in a humorous, fun way that diminishes it to remove any awkwardness around it, given a circumstance. This is so effed up that he just because it was a bunch of white kids who had a dear, lovely, best black friend, they get blamed. And no signs of foul play. Again, all we have is the mom thought it was weird that his phone didn't have photos on it. That's it. That's it.

There are so many other innocent explanations for that besides the white boys killed him and then wiped his phone. And no one, no one has been able to explain how these white kids allegedly killed Nolan Wells, their dear friend whom they loved in the middle of thousands of beachgoers that day, because we know that he was with Katie when they said goodbye, and then that boat went back to the mainland where it was at 430. So I guess if you think some white kids killed him, it wasn't the dear friends who were on that boat. because he was with Katie, who is alive and well and talking to people. We don't know exactly whom.

But certainly it looks like she's spoken to Hudson. She's spoken with her mom. I imagine the cops have talked to her. So she's going to be critical in all of this. Maybe the allegation, even though he didn't make it this way, is more general that just some whites, some whites somewhere on the island killed him for some reason. I think we need to do a little better than that before we start a race war. I'm just going to throw that out.

there as a possibility. Maybe you shut the fuck up about whites and blacks and race relations until you know what's what. Because what I see down there is whites and blacks who loved each other. And that's something I see every day in my life as an American. I don't know what Congressman Jackson lives in every day. But it's, it bears no reflection to the life I lead, my family leads, my friends lead. It's disgusting. The Emmett Till's name has been brought up several times during this case and this week, as we pointed out,

on the show the other day. But here's Benjamin Krumph and Al Sharpton mentioning him. We're trying to dot every eye and cross every T because we understand that when our children lives are at stake. It matters. Not just what happened, but what we do in the aftermath of them being taken

away from us. And just like the NWACP stood up when another tragedy in Mississippi taking the life of young Emmett Till, we would stand up for Nolan Wales. So the reason why a lot of people in the nation are looking at this Nolan situation is that we've looked at history in Mississippi. I look back into history and I noticed that Emmett Till happened here. USA Today's Nancy Armour also managed to bring up Emmett Till's name in a story this week about WMBA player Caitlin Clark saying Caitlin Clark should stop flopping, you know, or like a player overplays their alleged injury in order to elicit a foul call on an opponent because in the WMBA, most of those she's playing against are black lesbians. And because of Emmett Till, she's putting

them in danger by feigning injury. So LeBron James can do it, but Caitlin Clark can't do it because of Emmett Till. Okay, this woman, it's wonderful to see Nancy Armour get so dragged. She is getting dragged on X and it's about time. If you're a long-term listener to this show, you know, we've been on the Nancy Armour case for a long, long time here. This USA Today, whack-a-doodle. And it's delightful to see others now seeing what a nutcase she is. Tomorrow would have been Emmett Till's 85th birthday if he had not been lynched in 1955 in Mississippi. He was 14 years old when he was kidnapped, beaten, shot in the head, and his first.

body dumped in a river. He had been accused of whistling at a white woman. No one was ever held accountable for what was done to him. It's horrific. There's no question that we have a very, very dark past when it comes to race relations in this country. But you know what? In 2026 America, we're doing a hell of a lot better. And we have been for decades. It's only people with an agenda who want to pretend it's otherwise. Both the Emmett Till case and Nolan Wells going missing for a day and then turning up deceased happened in Mississippi. That's two coincidences. Both involve teenage black boys who wound up dead, one clearly murdered under the most gruesome, horrific circumstances possible. One, in whose death the police for now are saying there

are no signs of foul play. All right, there is just zero evidence that Wells's friends or anyone he was with that day are secretly running around angry, violent racists who murdered him on an island with thousands of others on it and that authorities are now engaged in a decision to cover it up. Was Nolan Wells harmed by people who might have been on the island that day after that boat left, that first boat, we have no idea. Again, what we know so far is the sheriff says, no signs of foul play. And the independent autopsy done by the Ben Crump team did not come out and say, clearly he was murdered. They said inconclusive. They can't, they can't be clear. They can't be sure. They don't have the throat again. And they don't have toxicology, which is what the main

autopsies waiting on. But to be clear, Mr. Jackson said, quote, the young people that were around Mr. Wells that day know something. That's a serious accusation to make against these young men. And you heard, you know, Congressman Jackson also say, there's a pattern of deception and denial. No, there isn't. There's literally not one deception that they can point to right now, not one. And that they, they've never been thoroughly interrogated, that they now, they coordinated their message, there's zero evidence of that. Zero. He's making this shit up. It's very irresponsible. The police say the friends have been cooperating with the investigation. This is just an attempted railroad of young boys, young teenage boys who don't deserve this.

Joining me now is investigative journalist Chris Hanson. He was a longtime host of the hit series Dateline NBC's To Catch a Predator. now he's the host of Takedown with Chris Hansen. He has spent his adult life with criminals catching them and dealing with law enforcement. Feeling sluggish, bloated, not quite like yourself, life constantly bombards us with silent threats, processed foods, artificial light, nonstop stress, all of which can disrupt gut health, drain energy, and weaken immune health. When that happens, it's not that your body is broken. It's that it might be missing the right inputs. That's why I want to tell you about Armura Cholostrum.

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Well, Megan, thank you for having me. This case is really disturbing. It is outrageous. It's disturbing. And I tell you what, you know, I've interrogated or interviewed hundreds and hundreds, if not thousands of men over the years, including my own sons when they were the same age as Nolan Wells and Hudson. And you see that interview with Hudson, and the thing that's striking me most right now is that he doesn't appear to be deceptive. He doesn't seem to be

lying about this or nervous. It's obvious that he cared about Nolan. But the reality is, Megan, somebody had to be the last one to see Nolan alive, right? So the question now is, who was that? And what did they see? It's frustrating to a lot of people, and if it was my child, I'd be frustrated too. And I understand the concern about the phone and no videos, but there's no evidence that the phone was scrubbed. And having been a lifelong boater on and off from the time I was Nolan Wells' age, I understand why they would put the phone in the center console or in the front console of the boat because you're up to your waist in water.

So while Nolan was a prolific Snapchatter and like a videotape and post all day long, I can understand why he didn't in this particular case. But again, why does a young man stay behind? At that age, it's typically because of a young woman. Was it Katie, who he was chatting with? Was it another young woman? And what happened in that time frame after Hudson and the fellows took off in their boat? Did he try to get out another boat?

And these are things that are going to be difficult to find out. Hopefully, I know that the DA's office and the sheriff's office are investigating 60 witnesses. it would seem that four or five of those have the most significant information. I would also tell you that they're about to finish the forensic examination of Noah's phone, and I would want to do some sort of an examination of the phones as some of the other kids who are out there. And I think sometimes those examinations will create a timeline and create some idea of what exactly happened to this poor young man. they'll know if they if anybody wiped that phone they are going to know that they already know that

right they know whether it was wiped or not right and if it was wiped it's very easy to pull it back we find in our sting operations you know the local law enforcement feds you know go through these phones forensically all the time and even if they delete the suggestive text messages the illegal illicit text messages that these guys send to these kids and our stings, they're all retrievable. There's nothing that's deleted forever. And I think you know that as well. Yeah, that's right.

So we'll know all of that. And you're right. They probably already know that. And their messaging has been no signs of foul play. Boys are all cooperating. I'm pretty sure we're going to get a diagnosis of accidental death by drowning. That's where my money is. Well, you know, the thing about investigations like this is that if you rule out any possibility

or if you focus exclusively on one potential outcome to the exclusion of others, you're going to miss some leads. So they have to keep an open mind. I do respect the sanctity of the grand jury and the fact that they're not saying a whole lot about it as opposed to some other recent investigations we saw, like in the Nancy Guthrie case where the sheriff was having separate interviews with separate media at separate times in the day. it was so hirky-jurkey, you couldn't even keep up with what was going on. And it's a bad way to run an investigation. You know, you either have one. No, it's true.

You have a briefing every day. It's four o'clock. And if something develops, then we'll call y'all. But this, that thing was just out of control down in Arizona. And my heart still breaks and will always break for that family. But in this case, at least there appears to be some investigative integrity in terms of not igniting this thing into a situation. It may not be.

Racism? I mean, if there was wrong. racism, then why does a kid who's black get invited to go hang out with all his white friends? I mean, you can tell by the way they got long. Lifelong friends. Lifelong friends, right? So I don't think, you know, who knows? Was there some horrible guy on the island who took issue with something that Nolan did?

You know, something horrible happened is a cover-up. You can't exclude any of that. But there's certainly no evidence that that did happen. And I don't think his immediate friends give off the vibe of being in collusion to cover up something evil. At least I don't see it at this point. I totally agree with you. We can't rule out that somebody on the island may have done something to Nolan. But this knee-jerk blame the friends, as you heard Congressman Jackson do,

specifically citing the fact that they're white is just outrageous. I hate when people jump off on things without knowing the facts. and they're just running their mouth for the sake of running their mouth. And that's what that is. You know, I understand the family hiring Ben Crump because they want answers. I get that, right? I totally do. And that's their right to do that. But, you know, the other question I have, Megan, is that, you know,

this wasn't an island where you could duck over to the crab shack or, you know, grab a fish sandwich or hang out or, you know, there was a campground or anything. There's nothing there. So I don't think that he planned. to spend the night. And there's no other missing human with whom he could have spent it, even if they had some cockabami plan to build a campfire and have a romantic evening and get picked up in the morning.

There's no ferry in and out of there. So at some point, he had to want to get off that island. I think, you know, a toxicology report, which always takes weeks longer than the initial autopsy, will explain if, you know, he had a lot to drink or very little to drink. Nobody has, at least that I've seen, said that he was drunk or overserved or incapacitated. In the rush to get out of there on many boats, could he have slipped, fallen, hit his head. He wasn't going to try and swim back to the mainland.

That's 10 miles. So that's, I think, what's fueling some of this stuff, is that there's no logical explanation that I have seen as to why Nolan would stay on the island and miss the last boat out of there. Right. That's the second part that I agree with. That changes it. Because we do know why he stayed behind, at least according to everyone who knew. He was with a girl. An 18-year-old guy wants to chat with a girl.

Oh, my God. You know, of course. There's no other motive for it. Every 18-year-old boy on the planet who's in that situation surrounded by cute bikini-clad girls is going to want to talk to one of them. That's their job. Absolutely. That's their job.

Especially if you feel like you got one on the line. You know, it sounds like he may have been connecting with this. the mood here and I don't know whether there was Katie or anybody else I'm certainly not suggesting anything untoward or questionable about this young lady they're all out there having fun you remember what it was like to finish up high school get ready to go to college you go back to school you're an athlete you're a football player you're a stud you look great feel great you had a couple beers you know you're just you're just enjoying your life but something happened between the time that that boat left the boat that he had arrived on

the boat that apparently had the bilge problem and the rest of the boat's leaving. And I know those situations where those raft-ups occur are chaotic, but I just, I can't think of a way and it frustrates me. And I did some reporting on this before coming on, knowing you're going to want to talk about it. I can't figure out why this young man either stayed behind or was left behind. Say he passed out, let's just say for the sake of discussion, he had a few too many pops and he passed out.

kids do that and he wakes up and he's cold and he's shivering he doesn't have his cell phone that's horrible but you know what makes him get in the water and try to swim 10 miles i don't think he does that i think he he he does the best he can to to stay warm on the island and hope that somebody figures out he's missing and which they did and they sent you know rescue crews out there the other possibility is you know they're strong under toes but he was said to be a strong swimmer Now, no one's a strong swimmer when they're drunk. We don't know whether he was. Yeah, and I'm not saying he was.

But the other possibility, Chris, is that I'm at the beach for the summer every summer. I'm not a beach person, but I am surrounded by beach people and beach news now for, you know, 20 years. And one of the things that happens, in addition to people dying from the undertow every year, unfortunately, is they get hit by boats. They get hit by boats. Well, that's what sticks out to me. There was a guy who's, he got thrown from his own boat. It was a freak accident. It was like, the wake of another boat came.

It jostled him into his throttle of his own boat, which it pushed his boat forward unexpectedly, and he and another got thrown off of their boat. One of the two was able to swim out of the concentric circles that that their own boat started to make because now it's not, there's no one at the helm. The dead man switch on, yeah. Yep, exactly. And he did not have the little connection between the key and his waistband that they urge you to have. And the second man was hit by the boat and killed. And you see that all the time. If you take your kids tubing or water skiing, you have to put the flag on your boat to tell everybody I've got a person out of my boat nearby. Be careful. Not everybody does, especially in a place like this where it's a bunch of kids. and I can easily see something happening where one of the other boats leaving,

if he were in the water, possibly hit him, and he went down that way. There's just so many possibilities. They're endless. I mean, even as an experienced boat or a skipper, you know, who, you know, I took all the Coast Guard classes and did a lot of boating on the East Coast in Michigan. And you can slip on the swim platform of a boat. And I've caught myself a couple times over the years, right on the edge of something and, you know, it can be slippery and you're not paying attention

for one split second, and down you go. And I can recite case after case of celebrities who have had issues on boats that the ballplayer, Norm Cash, was coming out of a restaurant in Beaver Island, Michigan, walking on the dock, slipped between his boat and the dock, they didn't find him until the next morning. You know, it happens fast. But I still think that somebody had to see something. I mean, if he's jumping on the back of a boat and they're all taken off at the same time, somebody sees him. Somebody has to be the last human being to see Nolan Wells alive. And I'd like to know who that is. I mean, especially if it is as they tell us, which is he was one of the only black boys there.

So, I mean, he would be memorable from that standpoint. It wouldn't just be one in a sea of others. He was so obviously beloved by those other kids that I would be shocked if that played into it. Now, again, I wasn't there. I don't know what happened in the waning hours of that party. I don't know what time the very last boat took off, the very last group of boats. I presume it was before dark, but you never know with kids. So, you know, I'm sure they're focusing in on that time frame and those boats.

And if I were investigating the case, I would have the phones of every kid who is in that vicinity or every kid whose phone I could get. And I would do some pinpointing and gather the forensic evidence. And I'd be looking carefully at that. We'll find out. I'm confident that if there is foul play, I think they'll figure it out. And the sheriff's office there and the DA there, I don't think they have any motive to cover this up. I mean, I think some of the families there, you know, they come from money.

They come from influence. You know, I heard somebody say, you know, I was middle class growing up and my dad had a boat, but we weren't rich enough for him to let me drive that boat. and I understand that concept. And these people are obviously well enough off that they could afford to have their kids drive their boats. And I get that. And my kids drove boats.

And thankfully, we never had an incident like this. But if there was foul play, somebody's going to talk, the evidence is going to exist on one of those phones, somebody's going to say something, and we will find out. If it's an accident, either way, my heart breaks for this family because this is just something that shouldn't happen and you can't keep your kids in the basement and you can't allow them to go out and have fun

and do adventurous stuff. That's how kids develop into good adults and to have this happen as a result of something that was supposed to be so fun and such a right of passage, it really, it's terrible, it's horrifying. It's awful. It is. I can hear it in your accent

that you're from the Midwest and you mentioned that you're from Michigan. I would be remiss, Chris, if I didn't ask you about this Haley Stevens accent. Oh, God. You tell me no, I'm putting you through it. Let's play it and then you tell me

whether this is how Michiganders speak. Here we go. I am going to be working on our behalf. I am going to be telling the stories on our behalf. And you better believe I'm going to be doing with a little bit of joy, a little bit of enthusiasm, a little bit of energy, and a little bit of stick it to them. Because that's the Michigan way.

Is that Chris Farley? The next thing I thought she'd say was, I live in a van down by the river. Yes. She's one-off. That is not, I have a friend from Detroit, and she doesn't sound like this at all. Yeah, I, born in Chicago, grew up in the Detroit suburbs, our primary family home is in Michigan. We have a place here in New York City, too. And that is not how my people talk in Michigan.

And it just, I was, and I was talking to my wife yesterday. And I said, have you seen this Haley Stevens thing? I said, what coaching is she getting? You know, we're registered voters in Michigan. We have to go vote, you know, at some point in all this. And, you know, there are a lot of consequential races this year in Michigan. But that is not indicative of anybody I know, either in politics or... Yesterday we played the before clip.

If you go back to 2019, she sounded like you now, like a normal person from the Midwest. Yeah, what is this? Not at all like this affected person. I didn't know who was. I thought it was somebody pretending to be her when I first saw it. I thought it was a joke. Yes. Yes.

It does sound like a joke, but sadly, it's no joke. It's not Chris Farley. It's just a Chris Farley wannabe. All right, let's turn the conversation to you, my friend. So how many years total at NBC? I was 21 years at NBC. I came in 1993 from Detroit where I was a reporter at the NBC station. And I was a correspondent for a year on a show called Now with Tom Broca and Katie Couric. And after a year of that, they merged that show in with Dateline, and then I became a

dateline correspondent. Okay. And looking back, it's amazing that to catch a predator, that was only a three-year series. Yeah, just about four years. and it went from like 2004 to just before 2008, so right around four years. But then, you know, they were so tight about the way that they produced that, you know, they wanted, like we would do an investigation, for instance, and say if we were in Riverside, California, where we had a big investigation, where 51 guys showed up, we would edit that into two hours, two one-hour dateline segments, right?

Ultimately, what they realized and what we do today is we take these case by case and we expand them into episodes involving one guy because it's so compelling, so interesting, and, you know, you see justice being handed out right there. So for years after that, they would do what they call Predator Raw, where I would go in the studio and recut the intros to everything, and those would air for several years on MSNBC, the cable channel. Here is a little sampling of, you see Chris is sitting in front of, you see Chris is sitting in front of the moniker have a seat, which is the name of his new show. And it's your tagline that

you unleashed on these guys when they were caught by you. But here's a little highlight reel along those lines, Sot 7. He tries to follow the decoy. Should you have a seat right in that chair? Instead, he runs into me. Please, sir, I really drove this far for no reason. Why don't you have to see what this is? No, please, I need you. Yeah, I know what this was. I just want to. I just want to. Why don't you have a seat there and get comfortable for that? I had a feeling what was going to happen.

Go ahead, sit on, please. No, all right, all right. Well, no, this is I need to talk to you about a couple things and I think you're going to want to talk about it. It's going to take a few minutes, so why don't you have a seat? How you doing? Pretty good, good. Why don't you have a seat right over there? Did you find the place okay?

Huh? Did you find the place okay? No, I didn't. It took you a while? Huh? Did you get lost? What was talking about? How you doing?

Why should you have a seat right over there? So you've got a big afternoon planned, huh? Why don't you have a seat right there, please? What's going on? And they did it. They sat. They still do. So many sat.

Megan, last month, we did a sting in Marion County, Florida, near Ocala. 58 guys showed up in six days, including a second grade school teacher who was here on a work permit from Jamaica, who was also a children's author. You can buy his books on Amazon or you could. And the cases are more dramatic and more compelling and more disturbing than ever before. We had a guy show up in this latest sting who thought he was talking to the father of a seven and a 14-year-old boy. And he drove on a Saturday afternoon to the parking. lot of a target store thinking that he was going to meet the dad and they're going to go in and ogle these two little children up and down the aisles. It's going to live out his fantasy,

the initial phase of this sex party he wanted. And then they were going to go back to the dad's house and both of them were going to engage in sex acts for the seven and 14 year old boy. And so he's arrested. They take him down. And this all rolls back to the sheriff's office, and I get a chance to interview this guy, and he basically gives it up. But here's a guy who was married, a work-a-day guy, installed lighting outdoors at people's homes and businesses, and this guy could have been in your front yard, thinking God knows what. That's terrifying. In the beginning, Megan, I thought, all right, this is very compelling.

We've obviously hit on something here. We did the first investigation in Bethpage Long Island. We did a second one in Herndon, Virginia, outside of D.C. Then we did the big one where we finally worked with law enforcement, Riverside County, California. And I thought, okay, well, at some point, guys are not going to show up, right? Right, they're going to know. They're going to know.

They're going to know. They're going to know. NBC's lurking. They're going to know that it's us. They're going to know what's Chris Hansen. And then I started hearing, oh, I've seen the show. And that blew me away. And I thought, well, okay, now for real, we're going to do one where nobody shows up.

and here we are 22 years after the very first investigation, 22 years, and we took some breaks along the way, but it's been pretty steady that we've been doing these. And now on my streaming network, True Blue, we call the show's Take Down. We've got 250 episodes we've done the last four years. And sadly, yeah. And they're still taking a seat. Wait, stand by Chris, because it was quick break.

But we spend the rest of the show with Chris Hansen on his investigations. don't go away. When you sign your insurance policy for some brokers, that's the finish line. Handshake, commission, done. Then you may not hear from them again until it's time for renewal. But your business runs all year, and so do the gaps and the risk, which is why I want to tell you about Super Sure. If your company has more than 25 employees, whether you're the owner, CFO, or HR

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I'm Chris Hansen and I work for Dateline NBC and we're doing a story on adults who try to meet kids online. I would want to be, oh boy. You ever see the Catch a Predator show? Yes, I'm not a predator, sir. I'm Chris Hanson with Dateline NBC and we're doing a story. I need to tell you that I'm Chris Hansen with Dateline NBC and we're doing a story on adults who meet teens online and then try to meet them in person for sex. If there's anything else you want to tell us about this situation.

I can't understand how you've got illegally been able to do this. Oh, we can. Have you ever seen the program Dateline NBC? Yes, I probably have. Oh, my God. You ever seen the stories where men come to the house trying to meet kids? But I wasn't trying to do that, I promise. Well, I've got to tell you something.

I'm Chris Hansen with Dateline NBC, and we're doing a story. on guys, men trying to meet teens on the internet. It's stupid. I'm a stupid man. It's a thing of beauty to watch him take these guys down. Back with me now. Chris Hansen, he is the host of Take Down with Chris Hansen and a longtime investigative journalist. Chris, I want to make sure the audience knows how to find you

because we've got Take Down, we've got Have a Seat. We had to Catch a Predator. So tell us exactly how people can see what you're doing right now. So we have a streaming network. Megan called True Blue, T-R-U-B-L-U, and people can subscribe or check out our YouTube channel as well, watch TrueBlue.com. And the takedown episodes are where we investigate the predators, we busts the predators. Then we have two podcasts, one is predators I've caught, which goes back over the old cases

and we show people where these guys are today. I love that one. Yeah. And so it's, for me, it also lets me dig in and relive. of the experience and say, look, this is what this guy did afterwards, right? He either got his act together, if that's possible in these cases, and he hasn't been in trouble, or you won't believe what he did next. And then we have to have a seat podcast that drops every Wednesday, and that's more of an interview

program. We do a lot of different things, whether it's the Epstein case or other investigative stories, crime-related stories, and sometimes just some things that I'm interested in. So those you can watch on the Have a See with Chris Hanson YouTube channel, and they're also available anywhere you get your podcast. I'm thrilled to see you thriving independently, free of NBC. Well, you know what it's like, man. I recommend it myself.

You know what it's not easy when you start it, but I've got to tell you, for a guy who's been doing this as long as I have, this is the absolute perfect combination. and such freedom to have your own network, to have ownership of the content and ownership of the distribution of that content. I honestly cannot think of a better way to do this. And again, I'm not ingratful to NBC.

You know, I was there 21 years and built a brand and a name and was able to have the freedom to, to explore these areas, to travel the world. But it was time. It was time for me to do this. And you know that all too well. And I applaud you for everything you've done. That's amazing what you've accomplished.

I was there less than 21 months. I think it was less than 16 months, if we're counting. But still met a lot of wonderful people, a couple of whom are still with me working for me now. So I feel like we rescued each other and got out of there. And look, you know, there is such a robust opportunity in the independent lane for you to have a direct relationship with the audience. And it's so authentic and real because they don't have to click on your face. They, if they're there, they're there by choice. It's not like, oh, well, he was on Dateline and I watched Dateline or, you know, even on Fox. I used to say, you never knew if it was like they were tuning in for you or is because you followed O'Reilly or because it's a Fox fan who just has Fox on all day long. So I love that about this lane. It's, very real. Whatever relationship is there, it's real. And you have impact. And, you know, we do a lot of different investigations at True Blue. It's not just, you know, the predator take down investigations. We did a major documentary called Dangerous Games about Roblox. We've got five or six other

documentaries. Yeah, and we will because it's important because anybody who's got a child on Roblox has got to be very careful. Yeah, I bet it did. A friend of mine had her son. A friend of mine had her son on Roblox. I mean, she didn't have him on it. He was on it like a lot of kids are. And someone started inappropriately messaging him. And she had no idea. She was like, wait, what, what do you mean? On Roblox? And you've taken a deep dive into this game. And it's not the only one that your kids may be playing innocently online, innocently on their part, where they have a disgusting pervert, reach out to them and try to connect. It is a playground for predators. And, you know, you, you know, parents trust this game because it's marketed to children.

Its characters are often resembling Lego characters. So parents, grandparents, they think it's safe. But it's addictive. It creates the potential for predators to be able to approach your kids. We recently presented the results of our investigation at CrimeCon, Megan. and there's an advocate whose name is Schlep. He was victimized by somebody who looked up to on Roblox. He's a whiz kid on Roblox.

He was like a young guy who was a creator, and he's just an amazing, sharp kid. And he went through this horrible deal where he was exploded by this grown man on Roblox. And then he went to try to expose other people who are exploiting children on Roblox. And what did Roblox do? It banned Schlep. They had an opportunity to say, look, this is going to be one of our young ambassadors. We'd teach kids how not to get exploited here. And they banned him.

They don't want to hear the bad news about this. We had a case while we were investigating this. We worked with a law firm in Chicago, and they represented at the time we started our investigation, they had 500 cases, Megan. And now it's approaching 5,000 because people are covering. Oh my God. In the course of this. Well, right, because most people, like my friend, she just said, get off of there. Yeah. You're not, you're banned from there.

And that's, I think, what most parents would do. Yeah. And probably leave it there because people are busy. But the truth is, if all the parents who have had this experience with their kids file a lawsuit or called the authorities, the numbers would probably be a lot bigger even than the ones you cited. By the way, I can only imagine Chris Hansen walking through a crime con. Was it like, did you feel like Tom Cruise? I do it every year. It's quite something.

It's very flattering. But it's a great way to meet, you know, people who are very devoted followers of our content. Yes. You know, I tell my two oldest boys are in the business, one behind the camera, one in front of the camera. And I explained it this. I said, we work for those people, right? We may get our checks from advertising companies and networks and everything else, but we work for the folks who watch our shows.

We serve those people. And so if you don't want to be in the public eye, if you don't want to be gracious or act accordingly, then you're in the wrong business, right? Everybody is due to their private time. We all hide out. We're all blessed to do well in this business because we work so hard at it.

So we can go hide in northern Michigan or wherever you go to hide. And it's great fun. You need to recharge your batteries. But, you know, we have a responsibility. And so going to CrimeCon to me is part of that. But you talk about this world we now inhabit, Megan, that, you know, I've got to be the oldest guy in America with 1.1 million TikTok followers. I mean, it's crazy. But it's a very valuable tool for journalism.

And in the course of the Roblox investigation, you know, got out there that Schlepp, who's got a big social media following, was working with me. And a woman reached out and just made a video. saying, I'm trying to reach Chris Hansen and his team because I've got a story about Roblox and my wife happened to see it and said, you should talk to this woman. And in fact, we tracked her down. And the story is incredible. She caught her husband. Now, she's got kids of her own with her husband.

Is this a Texas story? Yes, Harlingen, Texas. Wait, I have a little sound bite. I'll have a sound by. I'll play it and then you tell us the story. Yeah, go ahead. What's being shared is that you were on. roadblocks and you had a sexually charged conversation with a 15-year-old girl.

Right, something to that effect. And I can share this with you. You say you're fire. My tongue on that area will have you screaming. I'm not joking, girl. Taste you really nice. Your lips be hugging me really tight. Y'all have a good night, sir.

All right. Anything else you want to say, Hesuzus? No, sir, no comment. Okay. Well, thank you for stopping. I appreciate it. Well, you heard what Hesu's head. But Jesus had to say, clearly he knew exactly what we were talking about, indicating that even people here at work have been approaching him about all this.

But as for now, he's done talking. On January 30th, 2006, Jesus Zaringa was arrested and charged with child grooming, a third-degree felony. Go ahead, Chris. So this woman reaches out, and I said, well, look, I'd like to include you in the documentary. We fly down to Harlingen. We interview her. She pours out her heart to me. I mean, she caught her husband grooming a teenage girl in California,

and she reported it to local authorities, but she had to do the hard work here. And I always say, if you want something done online, find a, you know, a woman of a certain age or a college age girl, and put them to work on her because they're going to get to the bottom of it. And in fact, she did. Especially if they think they've been cheated on or betrayed in any way. She got on social media, found out who the girl was, found out who the mother of the girl was, didn't want to reach out to the girl because she was underage. You don't want to startle her or re-traumatize her.

She finds the mom and says, look, this is what happened. And here's the evidence. And so the mom coordinates with haul engine police to get the girl to give a statement, all done by this one woman. And they make the case. The wife of Jesus. The wife of Jesus. And so she's getting around. She's great.

I mean, she's, and then, so all this develops organically within the documentary that we're already doing. Right. We interview other victims who had gone to this law firm. And we had interviewed Schlepp, obviously, the lawyers, attorneys general, both in Florida and Louisiana. You know, both tigers when it comes to protecting children. And now we have this. And she calls me and says, hey, they're going to arrest them this afternoon. I said, look, I can't get a crew down there?

Can you make sure you get it on your cell phone? And she gets it on her cell phone. Text it to me. She's great. And we put it in the documentary. And what more could you ask for from somebody in that situation? And it was one of the most, I mean, it was horrible that it happened. But in terms of television production, you can't make that up, Megan.

Yes, yes, she was a mama bear. You know, and it developed organically within the larger story, but it was so impactful and so important. And we just started about four weeks ago, we're going to do another hour. We did two hours on Roblox called Dangerous Games. And now one of the things that we're seeing, we've seen it all long, but one of the things we're going to focus on, is this 764 exploitation that's going on in Rolls. blocks and you talk about I mean predators are evil but these 764 predators take evil what's that to another level 764 is a group of nihilist anarchist terrorists and their whole mission in life is to exploit children get them to harm themselves they they want followers it's

the darkest most confounding thing Megan that I've ever ever come across And a couple years ago at CrimeCon, I presented and did a panel. And even after doing the panel, I didn't realize how deep this goes. But it was invented by a guy in, I think in the UK 10 years ago, and he's gone in jail. There's a woman who's very interesting, Becca Spinks. And she is a bit of a modern-day warrior when it comes to, like a demon hunter going after these 764 guys. She's in Texas. I hit her on my podcast.

and she's, if people want to check it out, it's on one of the Have a Seat episodes, but she goes on and finds these people and exposes them. And I just finished two interviews with mothers of kids who are exploited by these 7,66, four guys. And they actually, and I've had a father on this show, whose daughter committed suicide. And what they preach is if you have a suicide attempt that you live stream, you get so much attention. and if you go to a mental ward of a hospital, you can actually get out from under your parents' authority.

You can blame them for things they didn't do, and you can be free, and you can be a part of this group. And it's the most twisted, dark thing that I've ever come across in 44 years of reporting. I mean, it's just, it's crazy. And they run rampant. And so, you know, we wanted to talk to Roblox about all this. And I had multiple calls with the press people

and to Zoom with their chief of safety. And they just wouldn't sit down to talk about any of this. And they claim that we were doing a hit job, which is bullshit. They're just, they're afraid. They're afraid and they're arrogant, Megan. They believe that they've created this world, and they know what's best for it. They have implemented safety measures, facial recognition, age verification, but kids know how to get around it.

The predators know how to get around it. And during CrimeCon, the first of them, most recent one. Schlepp was with me and actually he's banned from Roblox but some people he knew created an account and I went on and just existed as a kid and within seconds I started to get approached by predators and this continued to happen. No this is live you can check it out it's live next week's episode and have a seat we're going to show you what happened at CrimeCon but someone at Roblox got tipped off that we were either doing it or someone was in the proud and they cut the account live. The whole thing is amazing to watch.

Oh, oh, wow. That's disturbing. I mean, it's, it's, there are a bunch of different games online that you've got, you know, do not just hand over the phone to the kid and let him do hours and hours on these games because you don't know. Some of them do have messaging, messaging features. And there's currency. I heard you mentioned Minecraft too. Is Minecraft? Minecraft you have to be careful of. I'm not as aware of the Minecraft issues as I am of the Roblox because we've investigated in Discord because a lot of times the Roblox conversations can move to Discord and that's the Wild Wild West. But Minecraft, you have to be careful with you any game where your kids can interact. You have to be careful of who they're talking to. And all of this comes down to a discussion that you have to have with your kids. And from the very moment they have access to the Internet, you've got to tell them, look,

there are grownups on the Internet who try to trick kids. Kids don't like to be tricked. And then you have to ratchet up that conversation as they get older. Engagement is profit for a company like Roblox. So anything that limits engagement, and it's a publicly traded multi-billion dollar company, hits profits. So they want engagement. You know, they don't want regulation.

Every year we see all the CEOs of the platforms get hauled in front of Congress and questioned about what happened to my child and what happened to children in my district. And they all swear up and down. They're going to fix it. They're going to do more. And they do, but six months into it, all the lawmakers, lobbyists get involved and they start, you know, diluting the legislation. And so it's take two steps forward and one step back. So at the end of the day.

Well, I know. I've heard you say, you've got to sit the kid down. And we've done this with our children too and explain, especially as they get older, how the scam works. They will pose as a young girl. Absolutely. Or, you know, if they're dealing with boys or as a young man, if they're dealing with girls, They will try to get you to send them a nude. You'll send them a nude.

You shouldn't do that. But if you do that, then they'll come back. They'll threaten to send it to every single one of your friends unless you send them $3,000 or whatever it is. And at that point, you must come to me and dad. You must trust us. And here's the other thing. This extortion documentary they've been working on for, you know, on and off for a couple years, it's going to drop very soon. And I sat across from four sets of parents, Megan, who's...

children committed suicide, one of them is a state lawmaker in South Carolina, who's been very active in this space. And you talk about just gut-wrenching conversations all because the kid said a picture of his private parts and he was worried that grandma was going to see it or his friends were going to see it. You know how kids are with their social media presence. It's their whole world. And if they just...

Or they get a video of them masturbating, something that would be genuinely humiliating. But it's over in 15 minutes. It's done. Right. The news story. The story. These are good parents, right? These parents are among the best parents you could ever find.

But the kid gets caught up in this shame. And the next thing, they're going to get dad's gun and they're going to the bathroom and shooting themselves. Or they're hanging themselves or doing something. And had they just gotten through that 30 minutes of crisis, those kids would be alive today. And that's why we were so. you know compelled to do this documentary and it'll be out soon on True Blue and I'll make sure you know all about it because it's really compelling but again the message is look I get you're gonna make a mistake but the mistakes today are way

different than the mistakes when I was 15 16 years old you know there there were there were very little consequences then and there was no internet so there you know there just wasn't the trouble you could get into but today you know these kids are so tied into this And it crushes them if they think it's going to be destroyed. And they worry about getting into college and they worry about, you know, their buddies on the football team. And you just got to tell them, look, look, we can go to the National Center for Missing Exploded Children. We can, they have a program that will wash this stuff off the Internet.

You know, we'll take care of it. Right, right. It's a moment that will pass. You're the victim. Yes, exactly. Yeah. We've talked about with all three of our kids about this. And you have to.

Because, you know, you'd like to think that your kid will never make that mistake. But kids do make this mistake. Good, sweet kids make this mistake. All these kids are good kids. You know, they'll send him a video of some random girl behaving inappropriately to lure them in, to lure the boy into, like, oh, I'm talking to a real girl. And she sent me this. And I would like to see more of that. And if I just send her this, I will see more of that.

And then they've got him. They've got him. And then he's in a downward spiral panic that you're going to find out he did this. You're going to be humiliated by him. He's going to be humiliated in front of his classmates and so on. You have to front it with them. This could happen. Don't worry.

We'll help you fix it. This is like a scam. Like even if you fall for it, we've got you. It's worth having that conversation now before it happens. I want to keep going. But first I do want to say Roblox, they say on their website, they aim to provide a safe and positive environment for all users, especially children. They take the safety of their youngest users seriously. appreciating how top of mind internet safety is for parents and policymakers.

Their platforms design with safety in mind, yada, yada. You can read the whole thing. We'll post it in our show notes. All right, I want to keep going because the interactions with the predators, that's how this whole segment and you became a household name. Because they are, yes, extremely compelling, but also so curious. They're so curious. You don't totally understand why they don't run,

why they interact with you, why they do as instructed with the have-a-seat, not all but so many. So we've pulled some of them, some of the more shocking ones, and we'll talk about a couple of them. I know you know Joshua Ryan Simpson.

I heard your episode on him, among others. Here is in SOT 14, Chris confronting a naked Joshua Ryan Simpson, and you will see how that happened. Sot 14. You got on your deal. first. The deal, as discussed online, was for him to get naked as soon as he arrived. Still clothed here. You won't take something? Well, I want to let you go first.

Here he goes. We're wondering in the back room of the Stinghouse, watching all this on monitors, if he's going to go all the way, I mean, who walks into a stranger's house and does this? The jeans are off. At least we know he wasn't carrying a gun. There goes the shirt. There's my detector. There go the underwear. Now naked in the restroom with us.

Now naked and holding his privates was a little chilly, I suppose. The outside decoy says she's going to go use the restroom. So he's out there waiting. Josh is. Waiting. And we're watching. It's time to start the show. Well, you know how to make yourself right at home, don't you?

Have a seat on that stool right over there. Nope. You can put your clothes on. Josh asks if he can put his clothes on. I was pretty insistent that he did. Chris. You can't make it. That one had to shock even you.

I does shot. Just for the record, that's the third guy in the history of the predator investigations who's walked in naked, number three. Did he have a seat? He did. Well, he got dressed first. I'll tell you a funny backstory. The very first guy who walked in naked, John Connelly, special guy, who was neither 29 nor special, as it turned out. But he walks in naked.

I give him a blanket. but he's sitting on this stool, naked, which nobody wanted to sit on after the predator was there. But the house we were in at the time, we rented from a retired FBI agent friend of mine, who I'd known for many, many years, and it just was a good fit. So this stool has been in existence for all these years,

so it gets sent around to various friends of mine. This box will arrive, and it's the stool where John Canelli sat naked. And I think a lawyer friend of mine has it in Michigan right now. But I guess we should... You're going to get a video back one day of just flames. Yeah. Flames.

It's done. We got to give that a good scrubbing and maybe we'll sell it at an auction for charity. There was another guy, Marvin Lackham. Yeah. He did it too. We actually have that. Let's watch Thought 9 and then I'll give it back to you. Yeah.

You want to explain yourself? Grab of that towel right there, please. wrap it around yourself and please sit in that stool what are you doing making a mistake making a mistake i mean i can only imagine what would have been going on in this house had i not been here am i wrong to think that no you're not so what's going to be happening if i'm not here you're naked there's a 14-year-old girl you're chasing a cat around you've got cool whip and you want this girl to do some sex act with the cat and then you'll have sex with her. Is that accurate? Yes. Oh my lord. Yeah. Go ahead, Chris. So Marvin, who went by the

screen named Crazy Trini, wanted to meet a girl. He had a cat fetish, a cool whip fetish, and we caught him first, thankfully. So he gets probably. So he gets probably. prosecuted, this was in Fort Myers, Florida. And before the case came to trial, he was actually able to leave the United States and go to Trinidad and Tobago, where apparently he resides now as a pharmacist. High prices might be here to stay. Gas, groceries, insurance, I mean, let's hope not, but they might. If you're a homeowner, you may have thought should I refinance to pay off this credit card debt that I've amassed. And then you second guess yourself because of that low mortgage rate you currently have. Listen,

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Consider having Birch Gold help you build your foundation with gold as a part of it. Text MK to the number 9-8-9-8-98. Hey, everyone. It's me, Megan Kelly. I've got some exciting news. I now have my very own channel on Sirius XM. It's called the Megan Kelly channel, and it is where you will hear the truth, unfiltered, with no agenda, and no apologies. Along with the Megan Kelly show, you're going to hear from people like Mark Halperin, Lauren, Maureen Callahan, Emily Dershinsky, Jesse Kelly, Real Clear Politics, and many more.

It's bold, no BS news. Only on the Megan Kelly Channel, SiriusXM-11, and on the SiriusXM app. It is a good reminder, though. We have enough of our own predators. We don't need the ones from Trinidad or anywhere else. We had one, you know, as I mentioned, the teacher who was here on a work permit from Jamaica

to teach at this special school in Ocala. And, you know, we find a... a fair amount of illegal immigrants in these sting operations. I see fewer in the last six or eight months, for I think obvious reasons, there's been a crackdown. But we see it. And we've got enough problems in this country without guys being here illegally from whatever country

trying to harm our children. We do indeed. There's a guy named Jeff Sokol. You have him on camera. This is from November of 2016. interacting with the Decoy Girl. We have a bit. It's Sot 10. Let's watch. How are you? Good. How are you? Do you find the house okay? No, it's just really dark out.

Showed up with a pizza. That's a long drive. Yeah. I'm sorry. I'm really nervous. Oh, you're gonna give me a hook? No, I'm sorry. I just never done this before. I know. Have you? No. Not really. I mean... Are you telling you the truth?

I mean, I've met girls on mine, but... But I don't like come like this far to like meet someone. I don't know why I eat, you know, whatever. It's kind of crazy, huh? It is crazy. Yeah, why did you let me come? I don't know. If you're so nervous.

It seems like a good idea. And you seem nice. Why do you think I came? I think I know. Okay. And then enter Chris Hanson. And the guy starts eating the peasant. Let's watch SOT 11.

Somebody here? No. We're going to be to have tonight. Who's this? I'm going to get to that minute. Who are you? Who are you? You tell me first.

You're Jeff, right? Yeah. And what are you doing here tonight, Jeff? Hanging out. Hanging out with whom? With her. Who's her? Want to know who you are.

I want to know a little bit more about you first. Can I eat first? Sure. Go ahead. How me do you? are because you know I didn't know there would be other people here well what did you expect to have any expectations no expectations whatsoever no so you drove two and a half hours sure did from Boston who are you to come here are you a dad to meet a young girl are you are

you are I will get to that in a minute oh it's worse than that Jeff go ahead have a good now you know that that scrolls 13 right wasn't sure Unbelievable. You're stone cold, by the way. You are unflappable. Like, you always have a sense of humor. You control a situation. You never get rattled.

Like, I don't know how you do that, but you are, like, your coolness is a critical ingredient to the exchange working on television. Well, you know, look, I'd be lying if I said I was that way from the very first investigation we did because that first one in Bethpage of Long Island, I was just trying to keep my throat, my heart out of my throat, it in my chest because, you know, we're doing this for the first time. And I've done a lot of edgy stuff over the years and all over the world.

But, you know, you've got a guy and you're face-to-face and you've got security, but, you know, you don't know how this thing is going to roll. But by the time, you know, we got four or five of them down, you know, you just got to dig deep and you have to be incredibly focused. You've got to be a quick study with the transcripts. and you have to be incredibly patient. You can't just read 10 questions off of a notepad. You've got to get inside this guy's head,

and you got to live there as challenging as that sounds and as grotesque as that may be. But that's how we get the information. I mean, a good interviewer, as you know, is a good listener. And so you live in that moment, and you know, you're thinking about a lot of things, your safety, his physical actions, how he's looking, you know, could he be carrying a gun?

Some parts of the country, it's easier to carry a gun than others. And you've got security. I mean, look, we make this absolutely as safe as it can be, Megan. You know, I've never taken a punch. I've never gotten a scratch. I've never, you know, nothing has ever happened. But we don't take it for granted. You know, each one is a new protocol, and we go through it very strictly.

But, you know, you need to keep control over the situation. And over the years, you know, I've kind of figured out a way to do that and kind of read people. And this particular guy, I sensed, was not a threat physically. He certainly was a threat to a 13, 14-year-old girl. I mean, he had a marriage contract in the front seat of his car that he thought would protect him from legal prosecution if he could get this girl to sign it before they had sex.

I swear to God, he had this in his car. And he had thought this thing through. So finally, we, you know, we bust. him and he's still eating the pizza. They take him away. And a few, he does, I think two years was his sentence. And this was in Fairfield, Connecticut. And after he served his sentence, he became so notorious. Everybody knew who Jeff Sokol was. They still do. He actually went to court, Megan, to try to legally change his name. The judge denied his request and then denied the lawyer's request to seal the hearing because he wanted people to know that this guy tried to change his name

and that he's still Jeff Sokol and this is what he did and this is what he got caught doing. Wow. God bless that, Judge. What about that? We played the one clip where somebody said, I don't know if this is legal for you to be there and showing the guy on camera. He didn't want to be on camera. And you were like, it is.

We're good. I have always wondered, how do you get away with that? Well, there's no reasonable expectation for privacy. in this situation. What we're watching here, and I think one of the reasons why these investigations are so compelling to people, is you watch the commission of a felony in real time. You watch me confront the felon with evidence in real time. And then you watch justice being served in its initial phase in real time. Now, along the way, there's a There's obviously a dark, darkly humorous part of this.

And I tip my hat to it. You know, I play into it because I think that's reality. That's what it is. And people who watch this sort of expect that. I don't take it lightly. I don't make fun of it. These are serious charges. Every time we arrest one of these guys, we prevent a sexual assault of a child and maybe

many others, depending on who this guy is and what he would have done. So I play into all of that, and I don't think there's another place where you see this, and especially in the new takedown episodes where we take, you know, our time because it's streaming, if an episode justifies 35 minutes or 40 minutes, it goes 40 minutes. If it justifies 18 minutes. Do any of them ever sue you? Not successfully. I don't, and I'm not being a source.

smart, Alec, I'm thinking, you know, who's ever filed a lawsuit. Nobody, I mean, the evidence is so squarely against them. I mean, the crime is committed, yeah, why do they want to expose themselves to more discovery or more scrutiny? The crime is committed in most states in the chat. It's the solicitation of a minor. And so when the law enforcement authorities and the prosecutors get this, the evidence is in the chat. They can get a conviction just with the chat. logs. And because we employ law enforcement chatters, you know, in the early days we had an advocacy group due the chatting because not every law enforcement agency had the capability. But today, all the law enforcement agencies with which we work have their own chatters. And so there's no

chain of custody disputes for the evidence. I can see them. I get a copy. I get a briefing. I have to say the decoys, the women are guts. See. Oh, they're phenomenal. I mean, I see a pattern in the videos where the women, they don't let the guys touch them. No. You know, they get away. They don't give an opening hug.

They don't allow any, you know, physical. And that's, I'm sure, for their own protection because you never know. But that takes a lot of guts for these women to be alone with these guys they know are predators. Right. And in the takedown episodes, the women are always affiliated with law enforcement. Now, it might be a youngish deputy who works in the jail. But it's structured, either it's a public takedown or whether it's in a stinghouse, it's structured for safety. And if I see something going sideways, I mean, I step out and let law enforcement handle it, I'm going to get a great interview either way, whether I get the guy at the kitchen counter standing there in some various state of undress or whatever he's doing, eating or drinking a beer, it's going to be just as good then as it is if he's got hand.

comes on. So I just have to remain flexible in terms of my technique, but they're going to talk. And once in a while you get a guy who just goes silent sand on you. And we had that happen just a couple months ago. We were in Maryland, Harford County, Maryland, great sheriff's office there. And we had a guy show up in that sting who was a lieutenant with the Metro D.C. Police Department and our nation's capital. He had been on the force for 20 plus years. He was in charge of dignitary motorcade processions, including that of the President of the United States and other visiting heads of state. He had been chatting. This kind of behavior could compromise him. Absolutely. So his chat went on for 30 plus days with somebody he thought was a 15-year-old boy. And he shows up, I mean,

graphic. Pictures sent from his police office, from his police. car, yeah, imagine. And this guy is in charge of dignitary protection and motorcades. So he shows up, you know, obviously not in his police car. But because he was a law enforcement officer, because he likely could carry a gun, the Harford County Sheriff's Office took him off in the driveway of the Stinghouse for everybody's safety. Now this guy gets brought in and he's, you know, he knows the game, right? And I'm guessing he knew exactly who I was. And so I go at him, he's got his sunglasses on. And I start questioning him.

He goes, I'm not going to say anything without a lawyer president. I said, well, that may be, but you're going to sit here for 20 or 30 minutes and listen to my questions because you're not getting off that easy. And that's when the questions become just as important as the answers. Yeah, that's exactly right. I'm always looking at these trying to find the common thread. Like, what does a predator look like? what's the age range? How do they dress? Do they have facial hair? Do they tend to be overweight, loser, you know, unattractive? And there isn't one. My takeaway is there isn't one.

And you're right, because I get asked this all the time. And yeah, we see our fair share of ranging characters who might as well have the word predator tattooed across their forehead. We see that. I mean, creepy, nasty humans. But we also see, you know, clean-shaven, clean-cut, professional people. We had a guy who showed up, we had a couple of doctors over the years, three or four doctors over the years. I mean, medical guys. We had guys who were chatting with the underage decoy as they saw 18 patients at a day, sending pictures, obscene pictures of themselves in between patients. And the guy walks in and... That's why what you're doing is so invaluable. It's like, you'd like to think that you know if you have a child molester in your life.

You know, if he's your whatever, postal worker or your doctor or your lawyer. You don't know. You're a coach. Right. A lot of times they do go like you're, I know you had the guy who is a Santa. Yeah. He found a Santa who in one of these stings. So a lot of times they do go where children are, but not all the time.

No. And let me tell you something about the Santa. That was in Polk County, Florida where Grady Judge is a sheriff. if this Santa shows up. And first of all, I see his picture on the screen. You know, he's been chatting with who he thinks is the father of a 13-year-old girl and he's negotiated to have sex with a girl. This guy's 68 years old.

And I see the picture of him when they do the background check on the guy. And I say out, it goes, hey, it looks like Santa Claus, you know, joking. A detective from across the room looks over and says, that's the local Santa. He's been in my home with my house. children on his lap so we go out and get this guy and of course in these interviews I never you know I always know more than I let on in the beginning and so I'm back and forth this guy and you know ask him if he had met other girls online he said he had met other people online but not her age and he said

well I'm trouble at home I said you know try yeah like that's a good excuse for this so I get to the point where I'm going to get into the Santa part and I said you know I can't help but wonder and notice that you look a lot like Santa Claus. He looks dead across at me, Megan, and says, I am Santa Claus. And not only was he this main Santa Claus, he, his wife was Mrs. Claus. They had a whole business going. And then just two weeks ago, Santa's brother gets popped in the same county in a Walmart exposing himself and masturbating in front of a young mother and her child. Oh,

OMG. This is, wait, we have a little bit of it. Yeah, look at Sanders. Yeah, play it. Yeah, that's how. Here, let's play SOT 17. Tom, how did you end up in this situation today? Well, I was telling them, there was just something that intrigued me, and I just wanted to kind of see.

I don't know. It was a bad mistake. What intrigued you? I was intrigued by the photos they posted. I was attracted. and then just began the contact and the conversation. Many times I thought, no, this is not right. Did you see anything wrong with performing oral sex

on a 13-year-old girl for money? You were going to pay the father $200? Is that the story? That's the story, but what was, I don't know what was going to happen, to be honest with you. But you talked about performing oral sex on this child. on this child. And you have the dubious distinction of being the first Santa Claus we've ever busted in 22 years of investigating men trying to exploit children. So what do you say? I'm ashamed. And you understand how people feel about you having all these kids on your lap over these years.

I do. I do understand that. You make one dumb mistake in your life and it changes everything. Oh, please. Now, you know Sheriff Grady Judd doesn't play down there. None of the sheriffs, none of the chiefs we work with play. But the penalties there tend to be among the most severe. We had a case in Florida, Polk County as well. Guy got busted. And a lot of times they find child pornography, CSAM on the phones.

and the other devices. And that enhances the charges. And we had one guy who, you know, who's phone, they found porn on. And they said, we'll give you a 10-year plea deal. You know, it's a pretty good sentence. And he said, no, I want to go to trial. He got convicted on all counts. And the judge sentenced him to mandatory minimum life, natural life in prison.

Great. Yeah. That's what they all deserve, if you ask me. I agree. There's no curing that. You know, I mean, but they should, once is enough. Yeah, people used to ask me about the death penalty in these cases. In some states, including Florida, have, in severe cases of actual child, sexual exploitation, there is the death penalty.

And it may sound severe, and you may want these guys to suffer in prison. And you know how sex offenders are treated in prison, especially those who prey on children. But I've come to the conclusion intellectually that the day, that the death. death penalty is an important tool in these cases for prosecutors, not just as a deterrent or a threat, but in the negotiations of a potential plea deal. It allows them to hang this over the defendant's head in a way to enhance the sentence that's agreed to in a plea agreement. And I think, for no other reason, I think it's worthy. That's what we all want. You've been so prolific that they have now made a film about you.

I heard something about that. And it stars Robert Pattinson, which is pretty cool. We've got some of the trailer. Let's watch it. Sot 23. What would have happened if I wasn't here? You see how this looks, right? At the end of the day,

the men must be held accountable for the decisions that he makes. Do you agree? You watch television? Well, there's something you should know. I'm Chris Hanson. Let's get us a predator. The Dayline NBC. And you're about to be a part of television history.

Number one show on TV. I mean, that's pretty cool. It's coming out in theaters in September. Did you cooperate with that? You know, we had heard. that they were working on it, and they did reach out. They've asked me not to say a whole lot about it, the studio A-24 has, but I'm going to see a version of it very soon, and I'm excited to see it.

I think they're going to premiere it, I was told, in Venice, I believe, on the 25th, because I think Robert Pattinson is working out there. So I'm excited to see it. I hope you get a free trip to Venice. I hope so. You could do worse than to have Robert Pattinson play you, Chris. It's very flattering to have that studio, that actor, and that director are all involved. It really is.

Listen, it's the least you deserve. I just feel like we're all so grateful to you. If you hadn't been doing this, God knows the number of predators that would have been out there hurting children. I know, sadly, teaspoons in the ocean, but God bless you for making them. Chris Hansen, thank you. Thank you. It's a pleasure to finally meet you. I appreciate it.

Nice to see you. Absolutely. Take care. Wow. Wow. I want to tell all of you that tonight on the subject of true crime, the final episode of our John Bonae Ramsey MK Confidential series will air. We've had such amazing feedback from all of you on the series. Thank you so much for watching it or listening to it. You can do either. It's

released as both a podcast and a YouTube show. And we are doing a special eight-week series. So this was the first one, but we have another one that we're already taping for next week and the week after and so on. And I think you're really going to find the next one compelling as well. Don't forget to watch the final John Bonae tonight. Or if you missed it, you can watch or listen to all five episodes over the weekend. Thank you for watching. Thanks for listening to The Megan Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.