The Megyn Kelly Show - Outrageous Casey DeSantis Attacks, CNN's Whiny Newsroom, and Surviving Cancelation, with Jesse Kelly and Joseph Massey | Ep. 566

Episode Date: June 6, 2023

Megyn Kelly begins the show addressing the recent profile in The Atlantic of CNN CEO Chris Licht, what Licht gets right about CNN's problems, how he lost the newsroom full of whiners, and more. Then Jesse Kelly, author of "The Anti-Communist Manifesto," joins to discuss CNN's identity crisis, why Jeff Zucker is to blame for the problems now, whether the right should employ "cancel culture" in response to the left's cancel culture, if the progressive left can be reasoned with or should be ignored, insane stories trans ideology on college campuses today, DeSantis trailing Trump in the polls, how Trump’s indictments are helping him in the GOP race, the outrageous Daily Beast article on “The Walmart Melania” criticizing Casey DeSantis, Sen. Tim Scott taking on "The View" and the reality of victimhood in our culture today, and more. Then Joseph Massey, author of the book "The Light of No Other Hour," joins to discuss his attempted cancelation, the attacks from within the poetry community, how he has recovered and built his life and career back, how pain helps his art, and more.Kelly: https://www.thefirsttv.com/book/Massey: https://a.co/d/gcvFNvR Follow The Megyn Kelly Show on all social platforms: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/MegynKellyTwitter: http://Twitter.com/MegynKellyShowInstagram: http://Instagram.com/MegynKellyShowFacebook: http://Facebook.com/MegynKellyShow Find out more information at: https://www.devilmaycaremedia.com/megynkellyshow

Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations. Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show. An in-depth profile by The Atlantic's Tim Alberta on CNN. It's led to a lot of consternation and backlash, and that is where we begin today. The profile was on CNN chief Chris Licht. It was supposed to confirm his brilliance and journalistic integrity. This is the way back for CNN, which is at the bottom of the barrel in the ratings these days. Instead, this piece may be the death knell for Licht's career. In the piece, Licht comes across as self-aggrandizing and insecure, uttering phrases to a reporter

like, I'm a machine, while pumping iron in the gym. My God. Can you imagine? What kind of a man does that? A man oddly focused on the guy who held his job before him, Jeff Zucker, while lifting a weighted pole at said gym, where he is said to be obsessed with his trainer, from whom he takes advice on how to run CNN. By the way, the trainer is some far-left guy who prefers MSNBC. Licht is said to have exclaimed,

Jeff Zucker couldn't do this. What? The piece includes much criticism by Licht of the CNN he inherited, and I actually happened to share those criticisms, how it hyped the CNN COVID virus and the death toll to the point where it became absurd, how CNN joined the resistance during the Trump years, how it became a player on the field during Trump's presidency, costing the network its credibility and trust as a neutral journalistic outfit. Now, the CNN staffers are reportedly in full revolt. Their little feelings, already tender from the CNN town hall where Trump was platformed and spewed lies, are now extra hurt by the criticism they are receiving via The Atlantic from their boss. Brian Stelter, who licked justifiably fired as one of the most biased,

worst offenders of these sins, writes now that the COVID hype allegation really stung some inside CNN who maintain they did no such thing. They did not hype it. Well, I watched the whole thing unfold. And if CNN was not hyping the COVID death toll, et cetera, for ratings, then it must have actually been that hysterical. Either way, it is an embarrassment and a journalistic fail for them. To call that a black eye would be the understatement of the year. I'm with Licht all the way on those criticisms and his observations. Obviously, he is right about their failures on Trump, too. That is why he was hired by the new owners to try to right that ship. In fact, I found myself agreeing with much of what Licht found faulty in the CNN he was inheriting after Jeff Zucker's ouster.

It is clear that Licht fancies himself as a mini Roger Ailes wannabe. But as I said on Friday, there's only one Roger Ailes, and Chris Licht ain't it. Roger's genius came to him authentically and organically as he grew up digging ditches in Youngstown, Ohio. Licht, the piece points out, was raised in Connecticut. That's where I am. I'm not judging it, but I'm just saying, please. The son of a doctor and a physician's assistant. His career before CNN had him executive producing The Morning Show at CBS, not exactly known for its fair and balanced approach to news. And then Stephen Colbert, his late night propaganda machine for the left. This is not exactly man of middle America stuff. He has clearly read about

Ailes and his approach to the news and in trying to satisfy his bosses at Time Warner Discovery, who want CNN to return to its nonpartisan roots, is trying to act the part. But you cannot imitate your way to greatness. For one thing, Ailes knew talent. How to find them, how to manage them, how to make them household names, and then how to manage their egos once they became those household names. Better than anyone in the news business. Licked? His biggest accomplishments so far seem to be casting Don Lemon in that disastrous morning show on CNN, which has already basically imploded, and gotten Lemon fired, and elevating Caitlin Collins as his next big star. Collins seems like a fine reporter with

potential, but she doesn't have anything close to the it factor that has thrust many others into cable news stardom. Chris Licht would have been better off leaving her in the White House reporting gig, letting her cement her reporting chops instead of tying her to the morning anchor desk with Lemon and Poppy Harlow, where she exudes approximately zero warmth. Next up, he gave Collins the high wire act of trying to manage Donald Trump in a CNN town hall. That too was an utter fail, as anyone who's watched Trump for two minutes prior to that town hall could have and did predict. Now he has tarnished his only rising star at the network, just as he gave her the 9 o'clock slot on CNN's primetime. Well done, sir. In reading the Atlantic piece, and now the follow-up reporting by the New York Times over the past few days, The Daily Beast, Brian Stelter's writing, and then today, CNN's own Oliver Darcy in his Reliable Sources newsletter, he took that over from Stelter. What is clear is that the CNN staff cannot stand Chris Licht. As he brags in the piece about his new svelte body allegedly being a machine, he fails to disclose that he apparently did it with Ozempic, according to the New York

Post, which quotes several people to whom Licht has apparently been admitting for years now that he's been using the drug. As he takes CNN staffers and anchors out to dinner to get to know them, he obsessively checks his phone reading press coverage about himself. This is a guy who seems more focused on promoting himself in the press than any of the stories or the staff on CNN. He wants to inspire greatness in his employees and young journalists, but keeps repeating the same tired, uninsightful lines, per Tim Alberta. Like, we can disagree on whether we like rain or not, but not on whether it's actually raining outside. okay, go, let's go team. The news is so much more complex than that these days, as evidenced in his CNN Trump town hall, right? Where his star reporter taking on Trump stated,

as a matter of fact, it is raining outside that the 2020 election wasn't rigged. Really? Tell it to the New York Post and its audience who did not get to read the Hunter Biden story after it was suppressed by Twitter and big tech, etc. We could go on on the rigged point and have no need to belabor it again. Licht is now moving his office from the 22nd floor to the newsroom like Jeff Zucker did. But that is no answer. The children don't need moment-to-moment access to daddy. The chumminess of Zucker with his CNN staff was actually a problem, not an accomplishment. He wanted to be liked. He didn't want to lead. Sometimes being the boss means you have to ruffle some feathers. You have to treat the staff like underlings. You have to

fire people, right? Like Jeffrey Toobin, like Don Lemon, like Chris Cuomo, all these things that Jeff Jucker was so reluctant to do. And later we found out why he had his own problems in the Me Too department. But it is evidence of the fact that Licht does not know how to appease his minions. He's flailing. And the minions are apparently done with the machine. Joining me now, one of our favorites, Jesse Kelly, is author of the brand new book, The Anti-Communist Manifesto, which is out today. He is host of The Jesse Kelly Show and also I'm Right. Jesse, welcome back and congrats on the book. Thank you, Megan.

This is old news stuff for you, but it's a first time for me. So yes, I'm an author now, very world famous author, a big celebrity now, Megan. Yes, I hear you're getting wonderful blurbs and reviews by anonymous, tweeted out by Jesse Kelly on the Jesse Kelly Twitter feed. Yes, I actually reviewed the book myself on the back of the book as well and just gave credit to myself there. I Atlantic. And here are just some of the details. On Monday morning yesterday, in the wake of this in-depth, I mean, I showed this on Friday. Look at this. My team printed out the Atlantic article. Look at how thick this thing is. I mean, this is like, this, it went on and on and on. It was like a book. They've got their own book coming out today.

So he held a call with CNN staffers. Apparently people phoned in. They were so anxious to hear what he was going to say about this. Says he is staying put, that he wants to earn back their trust. Reportedly said, this news cycle and my role in it overshadowed the incredible week of reporting we just had and distracted from the work of every single journalist at CNN. And for that, I am sorry. I should not be in the news unless it's taking arrows for you. Your work is what should be written about. I will fight like hell to win back your trust. This is all just drivel. This isn't going to do it. This guy, he's been to too much therapy, trying to learn exactly what to say or read too much Roger Ailes,

you know, you are the message books, which are great, but only work if you're really a believer, if you're actually a disciple of Ailes. He's acting, and he doesn't know what he's doing. Your thoughts on it? This is something I'm actually struggling with society-wide right now, Megan. I don't know. Maybe you are, too. Maybe your listeners are too, where when you picture CEOs or these big shot people, senators even, CEOs, senators, these people who are important, for lack of a better way to put it, in society, even if I picture

ones that I disagree with, I still picture people who are highly intelligent, relatively emotionally put together. You picture somebody who is accomplished and mature and put together, but I'm having a hard time adjusting to this modern society where you can rise to be the chief of CEO or chief of CNN, and really you're just a big child. And you're texting with your life coach and you want to know if you had enough soy that day and are your is your ph perfectly and so i picture the head of cnn as maybe being someone i disagree with but being highly intelligent and switched on and ready to go but because we have such a society that has run away from meritocracy for too long that now you can rise to the highest levels and probably will by being a total goober and that that's that's what I see when I see Chris.

Like, does that make sense? That's what I'm feeling everywhere. It does. That's the problem. So it's like having grown up under Roger Ailes professionally. I know what look, this isn't to excuse the things that ultimately brought Roger down, but I know what a leader looks like. I know somebody who can actually make a decision without consulting some focus group or poll testing or, you know, staffers around him or even somebody above him,

because the peace pens spend a lot of time talking about how he's really just executing the orders of the new owners and the guy in particular named David Zasloff. So he's just he's a puppet. This is like this guy's not a leader. If all he's doing is, you know, throwing darts at the board and just trying to say, like, we need to be more fair and balanced. We got it wrong the last time. He needs to have a vision. And what the main problem is, Jesse, apart from the failure to lead and understand leadership, I don't have to tell you that as a military guy. CNN's identity crisis starts well before Chris Licks enter into this picture. How do you regain any viewers when you still have all these biased hosts in the chairs from which they betrayed the American people to begin with? I think they're going to go through the same thing Bud Light is going through right now,

Megan. I've said that Bud Light's damage to its brand will be generational. It'll take a generation to fix it. CNN's going through the same thing because of how they conducted themselves, as you just pointed out, under Donald Trump. And the problem is these news organizations, they got hooked on the Trump drug. Meaning, I mean, everyone knows that our job, your job, my job, everyone's job. My job is to be interesting. I do a radio show.

I do a TV show. I want people to listen. People have a million options. I want them to listen to me. I have to be interesting. CNN has a job to be interesting. I do a radio show. I do a TV show. I want people to listen. People have a million options. I want them to listen to me. I have to be interesting. CNN has a job to be interesting. Well, Trump is so interesting, whether you love or hate him, that people were watching CNN, hate watching it, to watch them trash Trump every day.

So they spent four years not improving, not bringing in top tier talent, not bringing in people who are interesting or charismatic. You had Brian Stelter waddling into the CNN offices for four straight years. What are you doing? That guy shouldn't be on television. But you didn't use that four years to improve because you could put any idiot you could have put a gerbil on TV to trash Trump and people would watch CNN for it. Well, eventually, Trump goes back to Mar-a-Lago to play golf. And now you're stuck with this list of losers here. You haven't developed top talent. You haven't found top talent. How many talented news anchors have you seen locally nationwide, Megan? They're all over

the places, talented journalists everywhere. You didn't go find them. You didn't use the scouting team. You stuck with the same group of losers. And now you want to change your image, but you've got all the same losers in the building. You should probably fire everybody is what they should do. Well, here's the other thing. So the difference between what Chris Licks is trying to do with the CNN staff and what Roger Ailes did at Fox News that made it such a juggernaut is Roger picked the right people. Like he plucked Sean Hannity out of doing, I think it was local radio in Oklahoma, right? Very small market, heard him, plucked him out of obscurity, made the guy a star. O'Reilly had been hosting a current affair, right? Very small market, heard him, plucked him out of obscurity, made the guy a star.

O'Reilly had been hosting a current affair, right? It was either a current affair or inside edition. I always get those two confused. And he gave him an opportunity in the prime time. We go on, you know, I, I had done one year part time at the ABC affiliate in Washington, DC when he hired me. So what, how did those people become well-known people like under Roger Ailes? And would they all have had the same result under Chris Licht or Jeff Zucker? No, we wouldn't have. Because what Roger did was he hired the right people whose values he understood and whose potential star talent he could judge. And then he let them loose. Then he said, go be yourself. Do your thing. I'm not going to interfere with you. Like, I believe in you. And of course, we understood the mission of Fox News Channel was not to put the New York Times on the air. What Chris Licht is trying to do is take a bunch of avowed leftists and make them fair and balanced reporters now and try to stop them from being themselves, right? Being themselves. He's trying to undo the programming that Jeff Zucker let loose

and realizing that what he really had was a bunch of wannabe MSNBC anchors. And now those horses have left the barn and Chris Licht is trying to shove them back in the barn and fool the American people that they never left the barn and that they're totally fair and balanced on all issues. And you should trust them because now they're going to say the right things. None of it works. It's a recipe for disaster and the ratings are showing it. They are showing it. Corporate America feels it the same way. This is what has happened, Megan, when you're bringing all these communists into your corporation. You're bringing in foot soldiers, you're bringing in religious zealots, and you're going to now approach Don Lemon and

tell Don Lemon to be more non-biased. Don Lemon can't be more non-biased. On top of being a total world-class piece of crap, Don Lemon's a foot soldier. Don Lemon sees himself as a warrior for the cause. He can't be non-biased. It's not in his being. It would be like approaching a devout, born-again Christian and telling that person, hey, I really need you to be super pro-Muslim today. All right?

That person can't do it. It's not in their nature. You can't walk in. And the corporations, as I pointed out, are doing this all across the country, and they're suffering for this for many different reasons. I actually write about this in the book as well. They bring in these poisonous people, these people straight out of college because they went to Harvard or Stanford, that they're true believers, right?

They're true believers in the leftist cause. And then these corporations get frustrated when they torpedo them from the inside. Well, you're not bringing in the newest smart grad from Harvard like it's 1980. You're bringing in a communist foot soldier. You can't have a well-run corporation with these people in your corporation. It's like inviting an inoperable brain tumor into your office and then wondering why you're dying. You've got to start cutting these people out and being a lot more aggressive with censoring these people out of your business. You can't make it.

They won't make it. All it takes is one of these people to blow up your corporation, Megan, let alone if your whole Friday night lineup is these dorks. You're screwed. Especially I'm going to give you a quote that really underlines this in one second, but especially because Trump is running again. Trump right now looks very much like he's going to be the Republican nominee and we'll get to the latest polls that just dropped. And so it would be one thing to say to, let's say, the Anderson Coopers of the world who prior to Jeff Zucker and Trump was doing a decent job of towing the line, of not letting his politics dictate every facet of his coverage. But then Jeff Zucker let, you know, the freak flag fly. Like you go, you be as liberal as you really are. Get Trump, be part of the resistance, which Cooper did as well as all the primetime lineup. And now, you know, now they're trying to ask him to be something else. Maybe Cooper could do it. Maybe Cooper could resort, revert

back to the pre-Trump Anderson Cooper. But Trump is out there again. He can't just be fair because it's like Mitt Romney running, who liberals can love. It's Trump again. There's zero chance, you tell me, of them containing their bias in trying to talk about this guy. Just look at the meltdown after the CNN town hall. Donald Trump, the hatred of him on a broader scale has done more to damage this nation than if Trump was the Antichrist, then he could have ever done himself. And a big part of that is what it's done to the media in this country. Even Jake Tapper, Megan, speaking of CNN, you brought up Anderson Cooper, Jake Tapper, he's never been Rachel Maddow, right? He was never Don Lemon. He was never one of these far left

kooks. Now he was not one of my people, but he's never been totally a nut job. But Donald Trump, you can see it. It seeps out of his pores like an angst ridden 12 year old girl. He cannot stand him to a level that he can't possibly speak about him. These people have convinced themselves that Trump is Hitler. They have. And so it would be like you or I trying to objectively cover Hitler. Now, that's an absurd comparison. Obviously,

Trump and Hitler, it's ridiculous. But these people are so ingrained with their own mental illness that that's what they've convinced themselves of. So how could Megyn Kelly sit down and ever have even a little bit of objectivity if she was covering Hitler? How could I? Right. You can't. You're so you find the person to be so despicable that you can't even speak about them without coming across without all the hatred and bitterness coming across. That's how they all are with Trump. And as a result, they've alienated half the country that likes Trump. And it looks terrible every day. They can't. Yeah. They see it as a true character defining moment,

like before him or against him. And there's no neutral ground, even as a reporter. And so if you're not openly working against him, you're evil, you're bad, you're part of it. You're complicit in Hitler's rise, in this case, Trump's rise. I'll say this about Jake Tapper. I always defend him.

Yes, I'm friendly with him. So that's part of the reason I like him personally. But I agree with you that he doesn't like Trump and that he's shown that on the air. But at least I'll say this for Jake Tapper. He loves our military. He understands more about middle America than I think any other anchor there and tries to do stories that reflect that. And he will push back. You know, when he sees something bad for Joe Biden, he'll call it out. This is one of the reasons why I say of the CNN anchors, I think he's the fairest and he's probably the most rehabilitable. But in his defense, he spent four years under under Jeff Zucker being told, get him, get him, get him on the Trump thing.

And that's that's why I blame Jeff Zucker for all of this. Jeff Zucker is now in The New York Times in this piece that hit over the weekend, clearly trying to say Chris Licht sucks. And I'm really the one who had the answers. And all the CNNers are calling me saying how bad he is. But Jeff Zucker is the one who ruined CNN. He is the one. Chris Licht didn't ruin it. He's just struggling to fix it again. And back to the point I was going to tell you on this, like what you were saying about hiring the communists and like, how are you going to change them? You needed a new cast because the communists are going to communist. This is from the Atlantic piece. So the reporter, Tim Alberta, was given extraordinary access to the anchors, to Chris Lick, to the producing staff.

And he was there when Don Lemon was rehearsing that morning show with the two female anchors and got a chance to talk to Don Lemon. So he says, I asked Lemon whether his approach to news meshed with Licht's. Specifically, I mentioned the outrage porn conversation that Alberta had had with Licht. Licht thought CNN was too immersed in outrage porn. If everything's in 11, how can there ever be an 11, right? And Lemon squinted at me, writes Tim Alberta. Here it is, quote, some people may want to qualify it as outrage porn, but there was a lot to be outraged for these last few years, he said. There was a tweet or a statement or an action or something that was outrageous a few times a day for five, six years. What we were doing is we were fighting

for democracy, Jesse. Okay, there it is. We were fighting to set the record straight on us being attacked and called fake. That may have put us back on our heels and made us a bit more aggressive with calling it out, but it doesn't mean it was outrage porn. I think he nailed it there at the end, Megan. That's something that you and I actually haven't discussed today. You and I have discussed it before, is the arrogance and self-importance of these people a little bit.

Did you hear what he said? He was calling us fake. fake these people they go into journalism and they see themselves on tv and you know you know what that's like and people are i'm making i love you and people are asking but hey can you take a picture with me and you eventually get to feel if you're not careful you eventually get to feel like you are actually something important and don lemon gets to be on cnn and he's just better than everyone and he's important because he's on television how dare you call me fake when i'm a journalist on tv these people just think too highly of themselves a lot of this stuff comes down i think to basic arrogance they couldn't stand it that someone finally came along

and treated them like crap which is what they are but they did they've never been told that before they've been told they're defenders of democracy. And remember how many times they've compared themselves to firemen? And who was that one? I forget who this was. Compared themselves to Navy SEALs. Like Navy SEALs, we're the tip of the spear when it comes to defending democracy. You're outside of your mind.

You're a blogger on television. Let's not make too much of it here. It's so true. And the piece, of course, Lemon, of course, got fired. And he reveals that Lemon had been threatening behind the scenes. I will go get Al Sharpton and Benjamin Crump to say, to make this a referendum on CNN's whiteness if you fire me. He's like the most. And now just today it was in page six.

Don Lemon's back. He is down but not out. He's going to be hosting and i'm like what he what a show on news nation you know like whatever were you expecting him to pop up no he's going to be hosting some event for people who are both black and gay it's not still like raise money okay perfect perfect so good luck cnn uh you're not gonna you're not gonna have anywhere near the success of Jesse Kelly's book, which we're going to talk about. Because one of the main things in the book is something

that's near and dear to my own heart, and that is how colleges and beyond, but especially the university system and now the younger school systems too, want to control our language. They want to control what comes out of our mouths. It's well beyond political correctness. And today I don't, we have, I should have counted them. We've got maybe three, four stories in the news about people getting canceled because they didn't submit Jesse. They would not submit. Here's one. Um, this is out of Kellogg, Idaho. Student barred from graduation ceremony after stating there are only two genders. So this kid, his name is Travis Lohr, 18 years old, was not allowed to walk through his own graduation after he departed from pre-approved remarks during an assembly

speech offering advice for underclassmen. What he said was, quote, guys are guys and girls are girls. There is no in between. So kicked out, can't walk in graduation. And then on top of that, this is the real rub. He says a job offer that he had to fight fires for the Forest Service out there in Idaho was rescinded, was rescinded. This is just disgusting. And this is the point of your book, that it's all part of the plan. Language has to be controlled. That's a piece of the left's approach to managing all these controversial issues. That's how the communists have done it forever, Megan. And it's wild when you see the parallels, which I do a lot in the book of history, like the Bolsheviks and the chinese and how it directly connects to

what they do today they build these language fences around us and they're always closing in so to censor what you can and can't say and they're always changing it's crazy when you read some of the historical stories and things like that i put in there of people who were they would say something that was approved language at the time approved by everyone you know the know, the communists said, this is okay, this is the language you use. And then to keep people on their toes and as a method of really control and power more than anything else, they will wake up one day and decide that that language is no longer acceptable. And then they'll go back to you using language that was acceptable at the time. And they'll say, why were you using unacceptable language? Off to the gulag to you yes men becoming women and women becoming men that was not even a

thing like 15 minutes ago it seriously wasn't even a thing in 2010 i i understand trainings existed then but it was very rare it's not something you talked about it certainly wasn't something that dominated the news now your doctor will tell you that men can become women. The latest Supreme Court justice basically said the same thing. I don't know what a woman is. Kid gets denied a job fighting fires and walking in his graduation because he wouldn't say the newest thing that just came around five minutes ago. And I've tried to explain this to people. I actually explained it in the book that people look at all this tranny nonsense now, all this madness with kids mutilating themselves and stuff. And they think, man, this is so crazy. This is so evil

and crazy. Gosh, these guys, they've reached the end of the road. And I'm trying to explain to everybody there is no end of the road. This all this transsexual stuff. This will be yesterday's news five years from now. There'll be something new and worse because they they never stop because they can't stop. It's an endless path of destruction. Let's as Lennon said, revolution without end. The revolution can never stop. This reminds me when I was a sophomore at Syracuse University back in the olden days. I referred to, I said, he's a black author.

And the professor stopped me and said, it's African-American now. I believe you need to refer to black people as African-American. So I was like, oh, okay. I didn't know. Whatever. Fine. This African-American author. And then, and now you look at it today, a lot of people find that term offensive and

we're back to black, but it has to be capitalized, but you don't capitalize the W and Y. Okay, whatever. Who the hell can keep up? Let me give you another one. Via Fox News, a University of Cincinnati student is now speaking out after her professor allegedly failed her, failed her, Jessie, for using the term biological women. Olivia Krolsic says her gender studies teacher gave her a zero on her essay proposal about transgender athletes competing in women's sports because in the proposal, she used the term biological women. The response from the professor reads as follows, quote, Olivia, this is a solid proposal. However,

the terms biological women are exclusionary and are not allowed in this course as they further reinforce heteronormativity. Please reassess your topic and edit it to focus on women's rights, not just females. And I will regrade women's rights, not just female. You must accept that in the women category are the trans people, which therefore undermines the entire thesis that this University of Cincinnati student was trying to take a look at. This is what scares me about where we're going, Megan, is what have we just talked about in the last five minutes, the people who are proclaiming this new insanity to be real? That's a university professor. It's not just University of Cincinnati, by the way, as everyone's seen. This is Columbia Law. This

is Stanford. This is Harvard. So, OK, so we have a Supreme Court justice. We have professors. We have the president of the United States of America. one of the two major parties and half of the other low T loser GOP party will admit that this is something you can do. You can just change the gender you were born with. It's not that we have nutters in our society. Every society has nutters. That's that's that's the way the human beings are. It's that our nutters run our society. It's become institutionalized.

Your doctor in the future, shoot, probably now, but in the future for sure, will not be allowed to practice medicine or graduate medical school unless your doctor asserts that the 12-year-old boy can cut his penis off and become a woman. That is so beyond absurd. But again, it's not some nut job on the street corner out in front of my studio, Megan, screaming at the sky that men can become women. These are the leaders of our institutions and our society. It shows how far gone we are and how crazy it really is. It's really disturbing. I'll give you just a couple of examples because we like to stay on top of the news on this stuff. Out of canada they've really lost their minds student arrested at a catholic school after saying there are two genders josh

alexander was suspended this past november over comments he made saying there are two genders he was told he could not return to class unless he recanted that position he decided to return anyway to get the education he was paying for at this Catholic school, and they had him arrested and charged with trespassing. I mean, it's too much. It's too much. And lest you think it couldn't happen in America, in Massachusetts, Boise's setback, This is a headline for the Daily Mail. Boyce's setback in free speech lawsuit against school over two genders shirt. A Boston judge ruled that 12 year old Liam Morrison cannot wear a shirt that reads there are only two genders while the case over the garment is still being decided. Thank God for the Alliance Defending Freedom. They filed suit on his behalf after he was

denied the right to wear the shirt at all at school. Thank God there are warriors like Alliance Defending Freedom. I'm telling you, if I wanted to hang back out my legal, my law shingle, I'd go join these guys and help them in these battles. They got another one. There's a professor who refused to say the preferred pronouns in his class and a lawsuit was filed against him, as I recall, or either way, he was challenged and threatened with his livelihood for refusing to go along with it. And more and more, Jesse, we're seeing state laws that say in the workplace setting, you basically have to use the preferred pronouns. You have to, or it creates hostile work environment. And even if there's not a law in the light of the Supreme Court decision that Gorsuch joined,, you know, the Trump appointee joined

Bostock, they saying you can't discriminate against trans people in hiring. They can make a claim now that if you don't use their preferred pronouns in the workplace setting, you have violated the law. They've been sneaking all these things into statutes and judge made law and so on for years now. Their whole goal was to stay under the radar while they captured society. And now we're starting to see all the results of it.

The two scariest things they're taking over and maybe have taken already, Megan, are the medical profession and the legal profession, as you just pointed out. It's one thing for you and I to get in an argument with somebody about this stuff. It's another thing entirely to have this stuff written into law, basically making me a criminal for disagreeing with the insanity of yours. You just saw, I mean, everyone talks about New York City and the crime problem they have right now, how they're turning rapists and murderers

loose and they're hurting more people. But they did find that one dastardly criminal, Megan. They tracked him down and they threw the cuffs on him and he went to jail. What did this guy do? They tracked down the homeless guy who took his pants down and took a CNN on a pride flag. That guy was immediately charged with hate crimes, immediately charged with hate crimes. This stuff is being ingrained into the legal profession, which is why they're going after the law school. So all these vicious little monsters who will be judges and prosecutors one day will prosecute this stuff. Everything they're doing is designed right now to turn any opposition thought into enemy of the state and illegal thought. Everything they're doing from nationally, statewide, anywhere where the

blue areas that control things, the end goal is to make you an enemy of the state to justify using state power against you. That's what they really want to do, just like communists have always done. They want to send the FBI to your door for opposing the policies of Democrats. They want it to be legal. They want to declare you an enemy of the state. That's why the FBI is cooking the books. That's why all this hate crime law when it comes to the Rainbow Brigade is getting ingrained into law in blue states. They want to send the cops after you to arrest you for what you believe. And it's hard for Americans to accept that. It's true. If you don't believe it, just look at New York City, where a few years back, they passed a law making it unlawful to refer to someone in this country illegally as an illegal

alien. It was that if your intent was to be cruel or to harass. So it's it's this is America. If I want to call somebody an illegal alien, I can do it. No matter what's in my heart, illegal alien, illegal alien, illegal alien. It's fine. You're offended too bad. That's your business. And this is the point of your book, the anti-communist manifest manifesto. I just want to read this because this is you, you raised this point. You talk about how by classifying words is correct or incorrect. The communist is limiting the scope of acceptable speech. If he doesn't want you to say something, he will forbid you from using the words needed to say it. He's building walls around you and boxing you in. For example, it becomes much more difficult to oppose illegal immigration. If you cannot use the term illegal, uh, we live in a country where the language we are being told

to use no longer has any basis in objective reality. And what I like about the book is you give in these chapters, quote, action items. The ones here include eliminate politically correct language from your vocabulary, even if it makes the people you communicate with uncomfortable. Ignore name calling and charges of racism, sexism, or homophobia, transphobia. They're meaningless. Don't apologize. It only encourages the mob and embrace cancel culture. It's a powerful weapon. We should be using it against our enemy. I want to talk about that last one. There's a debate within conservative circles on whether that's true. Stand by. That's what we

call a tease. Jesse Kelly stays with us and we pick it up there on whether the right needs to be doing more canceling. Cancel culture. There was a debate on this a couple of years ago on Candace Owens' podcast on whether this should be used. I think Candace was in favor of it, at least with respect to Chrissy Teigen at the time, who she was going after. Yay, go Candace. And there are others in the conservative movement who do not think this is a good tool for the right, that this is only what leftists do. I'm much more with you.

I feel like, what, like, what is this? We're going to take the high road while they just keep slicing everybody with a right wing opinion. Well, this is why we've had too much conservatism on the right, Megan, and not near enough anti-communist. That's why I'm an anti-communist. The traditional conservatism, and I sympathize with this because I'm 41 years old, it's been this way my whole life, has been thinking that we're in a debate, of course, a serious debate, but we're in a serious

debate with Democrats. And in the end, hey, we all want what's best, right? Hey, we all agree that we all want America to be good, and we all want America to be good and we all want everything to be prosperous and we want everyone to be happy. And that's where conservatism has failed so painfully so because we're not sharing a country with people who share our values at all in any way. And I'm not talking about every citizen, talking about the people who lead our society. We are sharing a country with people who are trying to burn it down, not accidentally, not a whoopsie. They're trying to burn it down. And when you're dealing with religious zealots, the only thing religious zealots understand is

fear and pain. I don't like cancel culture. I think that's freaking horrible that you can be canceled for something you say. They've tried to do it to me a thousand times because I'm offensive, of course, but that you should be canceled for something you say, lose your job for something you say. They've tried to do it to me a thousand times because I'm offensive, of course, but that you should be canceled for something you say, lose your job for something you say. Your kids can't go to school anymore. I think I've always thought that's a terrible place to be. I don't want to be there, but I know this. The communist has no intention of stopping ever by my polite example to him. He's going to try to destroy me every day. And I will say things like, that's not who we are. That's not our principles. We're above that. He's not inspired by that. He thinks that's weak and pathetic. Either he will fear that being visited back on him,

or he will never stop. Again, think of the communist you share a country with more like an Islamic jihadist than anything else. Some guy who's got a bomb strapped to his chest going to blow up a school is not going to look at you and how good you are and be inspired by your example. You will stop that guy from blowing up the school using fear or pain, and he will understand nothing else because they're religious zealots. It's a religion.

Until people understand it's a religion and not politics, they will never be able to take these people on. And most of the right still thinks it's about politics. I saw you tweeting out about the New Mexico governor signing into law a bill that would permit minors to access cross-gender care, I mean, these operations and so on, and abortions without parental knowledge or consent so what now my my 13 year old can get a double mastectomy without my knowing or my i mean i i want to take a look at the the specifics but to your point how how do we reason her out of that yeah you're not going to that's the problem we we we want amer to be, because people on the right,

or even in the middle, really, are generally patriotic. They understand how blessed we are by God to live in this country and how wonderful America is. And so we long, I'm the same way, we long for the days of 50 states and America, and we're all hands over our chest watching the planes fly over as they sing the national anthem and getting a little misty. And we want to believe that we can go back to the America we had and our dads had and our grandfathers had. We want to believe that. We almost need to believe that. But that America is gone and it's not coming back. And I don't celebrate that. I think that's awful. It breaks my heart. If I had a heart, it would break it. That's the

real honest truth of it. But we're not going to share a society and shouldn't share a society with people who believe my 14-year-old son should chop his penis off and pretend he's a woman. There's no common values there at all. And therefore, if you don't share common values, you shouldn't live together. We are the couple right now where the husband wants to settle down in the burbs and raise the kids and go to church on Sunday and white picket fence. And the wife wants to tour with the Rolling Stones and do black tar heroin. OK, they shouldn't be together anymore. It's not healthy for the home. It's not healthy for the kids.

They're different people. We are separate people now and we should be separate. I don't want to share a nation with any demon who wants these young girls and young boys mutilated. These girls who are coming out now, Megan, they were put through the shrinks, and their parents are almost always demons. And then they have a doctor taking their breasts off. And I heard one of them giving testimony about how she made this decision. I think when she was 16, she had both of her breasts removed. And now she's heartbroken because she will never be able to nurse a baby one day. And it was Chloe Cole.

She was 15. That's exactly right. Chloe Cole. And you know how horrible and cold hearted I am, Megan. I dang near cried. I just the thought of a decision you make or your parents made and your doctor made at 16 and now you'll never be able to, to nurse a baby in your life. That is, that's not bad, Megan.

That's evil. I don't know what that is, but that's evil. And I stand against it. It is so evil. Can I tell you, Jesse, just a personal moment. Of course, I believe you become a mother when you find out you're pregnant. You're, you're a mother. Like my God, that's, that's when motherhood began for me.

And then you deliver the baby and you certainly know you're becoming a mother at that moment. And but it wasn't until like as soon as you have the baby now, they give you the baby and they put tell you to put the baby on the breast so that the baby can latch and you can get the milk going and all that. And that for me is like the true crossover from the before to the after. Like when you really know you are a mother, when you are like feeding another human off of your breast, which let's face it, for most women prior to that moment feels more like a sexual organ than a sustainer of life. And it's a beautiful moment, not to get too weirdly intimate, but it is a beautiful moment.

It's an important moment. And so to like diminish it, you know, like people, there was this one trans doctor activist who was like, so what? You can have your breast put back. You can have the fake breast put back on. That's not the same. You will never be able to breastfeed once you have that double mastectomy. And Chloe Cole's got a series out right now where she features a 13 year old, someone who was a 13 year old when they chopped off both of her breasts. All of them denied this beautiful opportunity that's important for mother and child. Megan, you just brought up your kid. My wife, our boys are 12 and 14 now.

On occasion, she will still bring up how much she misses those days and treasures those days because of that lifelong connection. And just like you mentioned, just how real being a mother became. And to know that there's this huge industry now, there's this huge evil industry doing that to teenage girls and these teenage boys. And then they're messed up for life, not just physically. They've got these kids, they're injecting them with things, and then they're all messed up. And then, of course, they're all going to be on antidepressants.

The suicide rates are through the roof. And we're doing this to kids. I mean, it's not just adults. It's not just some mixed up adult who had a bad childhood. We're doing this stuff to children. And then people come to me and say, well, we can come back together again. Why do you think I want to come back together with you? We're enemies.

If you're the type of person who wants to do that to children, we're not friends and I don't want to be friends. In fact, I want to defeat you. We are enemies and we are mortal enemies and I intend to win. I don't even, you know, I look at it now and I don't get how you could vote for the party that's supporting that. I really don't. I mean, I don't mean to reduce all the big issues in our country down to the transgender debate, because I realize there are a lot of big issues that really affect people's families from the economy. We mentioned immigration, of course. But I mean, how do you vote for a party that is in favor of letting minors chop off their breasts, their penises, cut up their vaginas, and cross over, quote,

cross over to another gender that they will never be, that has a high likelihood of actually depressing them further. Megan, maybe this is wishful thinking, but I've thought on what you just said, I've thought that there's a tremendous opportunity for the right, whatever you want to consider that, to reach out to older democrats now i understand tradition is powerful you vote a democrat your whole life maybe your dad was in a union and he did too and you're raised democrat and you're raised to think republicans are pieces of trash and you're not necessarily wrong about that because most republicans are pieces of trash but i think a lot of these older Democrats really genuinely don't know. Megan,

I get emails because I talk about this a lot. I get emails from people and I'll say, man, you've got to tell your mom, you got to tell your dad. And they say, Jesse, I am telling them they don't believe me. They don't believe that this is what the party stands for or they'll get mad at me and kind of cut me off. I think a lot of 60, 65 year old Democrats, I'm sure some are listening to your show right now. I'm sure they really don't realize that when they go in and hammer straight ticket Democrat anymore, you're voting for it. That's what you're voting for. I think that's a bitter pill for these people to swallow. These same Democrats like AOC who were there performatively crying at the southern border in her white outfit, you know, because the children, the children had been separated from their parents.

Now we're in favor of things like this new Mexico law. Now they're fine separating the children from their parents. Uh, when it comes to issues like this, like self mutilation, they're fine with the abuse of children and allowing them to make these decisions before they can buy a pair, a pack of cigarettes, nevermind vote or drink alcohol or even drive a car. It's just total insanity. All right, stand by. Jesse Kelly stays with us. And I do want you to go out and buy the anti-communist manifesto. This just in, okay, this just in, the anti-communist manifesto. Tomorrow, June 6th, is a day that might just change the world. It might save the world. It is the day the anti-communist manifesto comes out by anonymous. That's how good it is. Rush, run, don't walk to the nearest store and

get this book or just go online and get it via Amazon. Don't forget to listen to the Megan Kelly show. You can do that live on Sirius XM Triumph channel 111 every weekday at noon east. That's a fun way to consume our show live without a net. The full video shows at youtube.com slash megankelly, and the audio podcast is available wherever you get your podcasts for free. Check it out. So let's talk politics. The latest poll just dropped today, Morning Consult, and it shows that about a week or so after DeSantis officially launched his campaign, his support is stagnant. He has not moved the needle his first week out on the trail, despite some ubiquitous presence of staffers in places like Iowa, etc. He trails Trump by 34 percentage points among GOP primary voters. Trump has 56.

DeSantis has 22, which is very similar to his standing right before he launched on May 24th. I just looked at the sort of a graph that shows you the Trump line goes like this and the DeSantis line. There it is. The DeSantis line was kind of even, not even, but kind of going along the same path with Trump back in December, though 20 points below. And then there was a huge gap where the Trump one starts to go up and the DeSantis one starts to go down. And you know, when that happened, April of 2023, guess what date Trump was arraigned? April 4th. The indictment, I think, came down at the last day of March. It just it was a runaway home run for Donald Trump. The people saw him as persecuted. The GOP has sided with him more than ever. And DeSantis has not been able to make up the difference.

This as now Mike Pence is officially getting into the race. And let's not forget about Chris Christie and also the governor of North Dakota, whose name I can't remember right now. So what do you make of those stats, Jesse? This is the challenge that DeSantis camp faces. And the trouble with this is some challenges don't have a good answer, Megan. It's not that Donald Trump has been arraigned and got more popular. It's that Donald Trump is going to be arraigned again, probably twice. Donald Trump has been arraigned and got more popular. It's that Donald Trump is going to be arraigned again, probably twice. Donald Trump is in serious legal trouble in Washington, D.C. He's in legal trouble in Georgia as well, as you well know. And I want to explain people

this thing to people because people get caught up in their emotions. I know it's unjust. I know it's not right. Set that aside. Washington, D.C., New York City, places like that are not America anymore. We're talking communist judges, communist juries, over 95 percent Democrats who think Donald Trump's the Antichrist. There is a chance, not zero. In fact, I would argue it's over 50 that Donald Trump's going to jail. But the problem for the DeSantis camp is, what do you do about that? The second Donald Trump gets arraigned, the trials are going to begin. He's going to possibly even be sentenced. There's no answer the DeSantis campaign can give to the people that's going to calm their fears

down or calm their anger down, I guess I should say, and turn towards him. It is the challenge they face. I think DeSantis, so far from what I've seen, and turn towards him. It is the challenge they face. I think DeSantis so far from what I've seen has run a great campaign. I'm impressed by his staff. I think their messaging is good. But again, they can do everything perfectly. But if the GOP primary voter continues to feel that Donald Trump is their guy because he's being so persecuted by a corrupt system, what can DeSantis say, Megan? Nothing. What can he say? What's he supposed to do? Go out there and say, this is wrong. I'm sorry, but vote for me instead. He can't take advantage of it. That'll just offend people.

I don't know that there's a good answer. I don't know that there is one. Maybe he could get indicted. Can everybody indicted? Everybody gets persecuted. You say that, but that's probably what it would take. Megan, think about that. OK, let's assume Donald Trump has 30, 35 percent of the GOP primary base. They are tempered. They are with him. It doesn't matter what happens now. They will vote for Donald Trump. What more of a percentage does he get every single time the people see the DOJ, the FBI, these Soros prosecutors come down and politically persecute him. You get a big middle finger vote just based off of that, based off of how the fact that they're persecuting him so badly. But again, this is why I don't get,

it's why I don't stress about the GOP primary too much. One, we have much bigger fish to fry bigger things going on than trump or desantis ever could be and two that look just like democrats who don't vote democrat every time in new york city and then watch it turn into a hellhole the gop primary voter is going to have an opportunity to choose the candidate they want and we will get the candidate we deserve 100% of the time. There won't be cheating to blame in the GOP primary. There will be no fingers pointed. Whoever comes out of that GOP primary as the candidate, that is the candidate the GOP deserves, and we're going to get it. Everything you just said reminded me of Jim Comey,

who's out there, my God, help us. He's also marketing a book, Jesse. He's marketing a book. He's written some novel and sat down with Jen Psaki in just a stomach-turning exchange where they're discussing the possibility of Trump being indicted many more times and also Comey's fears, fears about Trump potentially becoming the nominee and winning again. Listen to this. Can you envision a scenario where Trump manages to win back the White House and justice is delayed? I could. I don't want to, but I could. I mean, it's this crazy world that Donald Trump has dragged this country into, but he could be wearing an ankle bracelet while accepting the

nomination. Well, think about what four years of a retribution presidency might look like. He could order the investigation and prosecution of individuals who he sees as enemies. I'm sure I'm on the enemies list because the president constitutionally does oversee the executive branch entirely, which includes the Department of Justice, prosecutors and investigators. And so he could commission direct that individuals be pursued. That the president could influence the DOJ to go after private citizens, Jesse. The horror. Could you imagine if we lived in a country, Megan, where the president of the United States would politically prosecute his opponents? For instance, if, say, you were

walking by the Capitol on January 6th, what if we had a president who sent the FBI after you? If you were a pro-life activist and you happened to be reading Bible verses or singing worship songs out in front of an abortion clinic, what if we had a president who sent the DOJ after you? What if we had a president who, while the other guy, the presumptive nominee, was running for office, had the DOJ working up multiple cases against you? Can you imagine if we lived in a country like that? What a banana republic that would actually be, Megan. Not to mention if you're a parent who speaks out about the COVID restrictions at a school board and you get labeled a domestic terrorist after the White House coordinated a letter to the DOJ

about you, or you're a parent who went to that church out in California during the COVID restrictions and worshipped anyway while you got spied on in your prayer circles by the FBI. Imagine the horror, Jim Comey, of that actually happening. And he mentioned that ankle bracelet thing you played at the very beginning there, Megan. I heard that yesterday. And the first thing I thought, maybe I'm paranoid by this point in time, the first thing I thought was that was a warning. James Comey is not some outsider, sadly. I know he's a gigantic goober, but he's not some outsider.

Quick side note, it chaps me that right now his book is two spots ahead of my book on the Amazon bestsellers. So everybody better go to jessikellybook.com. I better overtake that dork by the end of the day. Anyway, he's not some outsider. This guy is as wired in as anybody out there. I took that as a warning. And I'm going to warn everybody right now. I'm sure people already realize this.

You're going to face an election cycle like nobody has ever seen in the history of the country where perhaps the nominee, maybe the likely nominee is going to be on trial, going to be arrested, going to be arraigned. I don't think people have mentally prepared themselves for what's coming over the next year, Megan. It's going to be wild. Although the Democrats are salivating at the imagery, just salivating at it. Be careful. Be careful what you wish for. Anything could happen. Like Biden falls. Trump gets it. Biden falls. Nobody wants Kamala. And Bob's your uncle. We got a President Trump again. I don't think the left has thought it through. There's so many things I want to get to, but let me talk about another candidate. You didn't bite on Chris Christie, so I'm guessing you're not feeling the tingling feeling

about his entry. Well, I don't care about, honestly, so I'm guessing you're not feeling the tingling feeling about his entry. Well, I don't care about honestly, I don't care about any of them. But Trump and DeSantis, because I don't think any of them can win. And most of them I have really nothing but scorn for. Chris Christie presents something that may be interesting in the race, not that he in and of himself is interesting. But Christie is the first of the candidates to get in the race that is a publicly declared enemy of Trump. All the other candidates, since they've gotten in the race, they've done nothing but attack DeSantis. All of them are clearly just trying to be Trump's VP.

Some of them probably got in at the behest of Trump, which is really smart campaigning, by the way. But Chris Christie's not only an open opponent of Trump. I know people hate Chris Christie, and I do too. He's a really good good debater and he can savage you in the debate. People forget that he ended Marco Rubio's presidential run last time. Absolutely ended it in that one debate. What if Christie does that to Trump? That may be a wild card people aren't thinking about. He is a publicly declared enemy of Trump. That that actually could get ugly for Trump in one of the debates. I don't hate Chris Christie. I see that he hasn't been successful at all in his presidential runs. But you're right. It's going to be interesting. And I'd like to see because Trump's he's so

wily on the debate stage. He's so tough to pin down and score points against. And yet that's Christie's forte. But he fights the old fashioned way, you know, with facts and points and waiting for counterpoints and counter punches. And, you know, Trump will basically just be like, you know, with facts and points and waiting for counterpoints and counterpunches. And, you know, Trump will basically just be like, you're fat. You've always been fat. You're fatter than like, how do you respond? How do you, it's going to be the big challenge as we go forward. Now, wait, I do think it's interesting who one of these guys might be in the VP role. I think you're right. All these guys really want to be the VP. Nikki Haley. She also, by the way, had a town hall on CNN that, you know, it was crickets. Listen to it. Made no news. The truth

is people aren't interested in Nikki. Again, I respect her, but it's not going to happen. Tim Scott, though, goes on The View. And this got interesting. The View, like literally a week ago, Joy Behar made the point that Clarence Thomas and Tim Scott don't understand the plight of what it's like to be a black man in America. She made that point. Then I think she missed yesterday when he came on. But Sonny Hostin was there to do her bidding in this exchange that's gone viral. Watch this. One of the reasons why I'm on the show is because of the comments that were made, frankly, on this show, that the only way for a young African-American kid to be successful in this country is to be the exception and not the rule. That is a dangerous, offensive,

disgusting message to send to our young people today. And if my life is the exception, I can't imagine. But it is. But it's not, actually. It's been 114 years. Yeah. So the fact of the matter is we've had an African-American president president african-american uh vice president we've had two african-americans to be secretaries of the state in 1975 um there was about 15 employment in the african-american community for the first time in the history of the country it's under five percent forty percent homelessness and fifty percent of african-americans in our community thirteen percent of the population ask the question i know i've watched you on the show that you like people to be deferential and respectful, so I'm going to do the same thing. That is true.

So here's what I'm going to suggest. I'm going to suggest the fact of the matter is that progress in America is palpable. It can be measured in generations. So what I'm suggesting is that yesterday's exception is today's rule. And for us to suggest... So America has met its promise. No, of course. The concept of America is that we are going to become a more perfect union.

But in fact, the challenges that we faced 50 years ago and 60 years ago should not be the same challenges that we face today. I mean, there she is again, bashing America. We've made no progress. Black people are, I guess, as embattled as they were during Jim Crow. This millionaire woman whose son is at Harvard, who lives in a huge mansion, who, to her credit, worked her way up to all those things from a working class background, from what she says. I think she grew up in the Bronx. But still, still, just like Michelle Obama, the country sucks. The country is disgusting. It's just as racist as it ever was. I write about this actually in the book, Megan, about the different fingers of American communism, how you have the feminists and the climate change nutters and the LGBTQ people and the Black Lives Matter, quote, civil rights movement.

And the truth is they're all just fingers of the same communist fist. Communism is just the religion of the malcontent. That's all it is. That's why it's taken a different form in every country it's ever been that's why it's not about workers here it's about the gays and the civil rights and things like that sunny actually she's a great example of this you cannot you cannot under any circumstances if you're an american communist trying to wreck the country trying to achieve power and money for yourself. You can never at any point in time look at the malcontents who you're claiming to lead and tell them, hey, guys, it's all good now. Calm down. You need more malcontents. The malcontents are your source of power. It's your source of destruction. So at no point is some loser like Sonny ever going to get up there and

say, wow, you're right. I am the American dream. And she's not alone with all the, quote, civil rights leaders that try to take the same tactic in this country. You look at somebody like LeBron James or Oprah Winfrey or something like that. These people are the American story, the biggest inspiration in the world. LeBron James grew up horribly. And now I think he's a billionaire with hard work in a billionaire and it's got private jets that that is it's it's a story of success and yet lebron james wants to be oppressed oprah winfrey oh i was they judge me because i'm black they they need that because you can't ever get to the place where you say hey man no more malcontent stuff here if you want to make it you can make ever get to the place where you say, hey, man, no more malcontent stuff here.

If you want to make it, you can make it. Thank God to this beautiful country. Yep. Thank God. It's a horrendous upbringing. First black female billionaire in America way back in 2003. But we're still like we're supposed to ignore it. Like he points out, you got LeBron and Oprah.

Of course, you got a black president of the United States, Supreme Court justices, U.S. senators, secretaries of state, now vice president. We could go to. No, they're all exceptions. At what point do the exceptions become the rule, Sonny? At what point? At no point. That's my point, Megan. At no point. At no point will there ever be, hey, guys, we made it. We can calm down. That's why the communist is so vague about his goals. Nobody can actually describe. Have you ever noticed, Megan, none of these people can describe what is the diversity achievement goal? What is the equity goal? You know why they can't describe it? Because the second you give someone an actual goal, then once you meet that goal, you have to stop. It's all just vague platitudes. That way you can always continue to move the goalposts along somewhere. The diversity

and equity and achievement, these things, they make things ill-definable. So the revolution, as we mentioned earlier in the show, so the revolution is without end. There is no end goal. They will demand you define everything. Define that. You can't even define that. They will define nothing for you. That's why when Mao was doing his cultural revolution, he was doing it on old ideas and old habits and old customs.

What do those words mean? Whatever Mao wanted them to mean in any given moment. And have they been achieved? Well, as soon as Mao's done, he'll decide when they've been achieved. old customs. What do those words mean? Whatever Mao wanted them to mean in any given moment. And have they been achieved? Well, as soon as Mao's done, he'll decide when they've been achieved. It can never be achieved. There will never be a moment when the feminists decide women have it good. There will never be a moment where the LGBTQ demon mob decides we have equality, we're fine. The civil rights, the quote, civil rights side of this country, the whole black activism thing, exact same thing. The leaders of that movement, they can never get to a place where they say we can make it. You can make it. Look at me. Look at this guy. Because the second they do that, they've given their power away. Their power comes from the malcontents. So they have to remain malcontent.

That's why these gay rights groups have now switched over to the T because they we have equality for gays and lesbians. That's why the human rights campaign now just means it's basically trans rights activist group. Um, they can't admit it. And it's to your point. It's why the California reparations push is such a joke. Like, Oh, I'm sure everyone's just going to go away satisfied saying you did right by us. These people who were not descended from slaves at all. California was a free state are going to get what? $5 million checks, $2 million checks, and they're going to say, we're good. No, it's because it's not part of the agenda. The agenda is much bigger, and it includes never being satisfied. I love how Sonny's like, 114 years.

You know, yeah, it took a long time for the South to produce a black senator. You know who did it? The Republicans. The Republicans did it. And on that earlier segment with Joy Behar, she was like, they don't get it. They don't understand the black experience in America because they're Republicans. Okay, because the Democratic Party has been such an example in civil rights and progress for blacks. Who do you think was pushing all the Jim Crow laws, right? Who was behind the racist South? In any event, okay, enough about the ladies of DeVue, but the presidential politics are interesting. And here's where I'm going on it next. The Daily Beast did the most laughable, absurd piece on Casey DeSantis. I've read in recent memory, I can't remember a more absurd hit piece that just checked every box of what the left thinks of Republican women. It's amazing. I recommend it just because I think people will enjoy it for hate reading purposes. The headline is, Casey DeSantis is the Walmart Melania. All right, so let's bring Walmart into it. Let's rip on those poor, fat middle Americans who shop at Walmart. We know that's how they feel, right? That's how the left feels. So she's not even like a good Melania. She's like a disgusting, lame Melania is the Daily Beast's suggestion. The First Lady of Florida, I've got to read you some of these excerpts. First Lady of Florida showed up on the campaign trail in Iowa this weekend wearing a ghastly

black leather jacket, American flag on the front, an alligator and the silhouette of her state on the back with the sneering words, where woke goes to die. That brought to mind nothing so much as the racks of a red state big bin store where it would be retailing for $24.99. Not like the Bergdorf Goodman where I shop, you losers. That's me writing in between the lines. Goes on to say it reminds the writer of Melania's coat. I really don't care that she wore when she went down to the border crisis situation the message on melania's coat like the one-time model herself was sphinx like and then she talks about the speculation about what that jacket meant did

it mean nothing at all like her spokesman insisted maybe like melania herself a cipher whose eyes seem to betray an inner emptiness by contrast contrast, Casey DeSantis' coat is just like her husband Ron DeSantis' campaign. Crude, grasping, saying the ugly part out loud. DeSantis' Florida is where the woke go to die, and a lot of other people die as well. DeSantis had one of the highest COVID death rates. No mention of the fact that Florida is full of old people who were affected by COVID more than any other. She brings up the horrific Pulse nightclub mass shooting in Orlando, which was go, go read Glenn Greenwald on the Pulse nightclub and the Islamic extremists and the motivation there. Okay. But I guess that's DeSantis' fault. Um, Their shameful history of Jim Crow era lynch mobs. Hello, refer to my history lesson. But of course, DeSantis and his cronies want to pervert kids from learning about any of that,

any of the history in Florida, by censoring their library books and AP curricula. All lies. All lies. They're teaching history in Florida, The AP African-American history course that he didn't like promoted Kendi, D'Angelo and the likes. And once they took that stuff out, he said, I'm totally in favor of it. The jacket then is a warning. Watch out, America. All right, I got to keep going and then I'm going to give you the floor. I promise. It's just so good. The DeSantis's will never be Camelot. Jackie and JFK symbolized the opposite of vulgar pettiness. They embodied youth energy, a commitment to moral progress in the struggle for civil rights. Sure, they were totally moral. I'm sure Kennedy's record with his wife would stack up really nicely against DeSantis is with his. The DeSantis is are more like posers, fake Birkins, Mar-a-Lago imitators. She says, we've got a Sunshine State Lady Macbeth in her green cape and white gloves with her

middling husband and her thirst for the crown. And we've got a guy who wants to be sitting in a corner mumbling about the Federalist Papers and gobbling pudding off his fingers. Trump is the danger of raw, chaotic id. DeSantis, meanwhile, is the little jerk. He's going to make all of us pay for how he had no friends in third grade. Oh, my God, Jesse. Oh, my God. Like I said, clicks all the boxes, checks all of them.

Well, this is how they treat all the GOP first ladies. And it just goes to show you once again, they never mean anything that they say. They lie about everything they care about. They don't care about the climate. They don't care about women. They don't care about black people. They care about communism. And you can tell this because the second a Republican one steps up,

she gets smeared. I'd love to hear all the things they've said to you over the years and things they've emailed to you over the years. Megan, I remember all the things they say said about Melania. I've seen the things they say about Congresswomen like Boebert or any female Republican senator. The second you come out against the cause, you become Walmart Melania. You become some worthless piece of trash who offended God himself, some heretic. And that's how they treat everybody. But again, I think the real the person who's failed the most in all this, Megan, has been the right has been us. I look, I'll point fingers at myself. Always. We've watched these people do this forever. And we've always assumed that we could just, you know, we could do enough to earn their approval

or do enough to kind of calm things down. Maybe if I'm more pro-women, that they won't act like that I'm the Antichrist. Maybe if I run enough black candidates that they'll finally accept that I'm not a racist. And we haven't accepted yet that those days will never come. Because again, if the communist reaches his destination, then he has to stop. So there's never a destination. It is destruction without end. Casey DeSantis is wonderful. She's a beautiful young mother. They appear to be, I don't know them, but they appear to be a loving couple. So whether you're a DeSantis fan or not, they appear to be wonderful. That's something to admire in this country. But the thing is, she's on the wrong side of the whole communist agenda. So you have to belittle her, make fun of her clothes. I bet you that was a woman who wrote

that article, though, Megan, because you women are terrible to each other when it comes to fashion, terrible to each other. Oh, let me go on on fashion. It reminds me of a line, by the way, from Pride and Prejudice. I have no wish for their good approval. I have no wish for his good approval. And that's exactly how I feel about the left and how what you're saying. There's no point in trying to seek it. It's not available to you no matter how good you try to be under their standards. Listen to this. Of course, neither Melania Trump nor Casey DeSantis, you're not going to believe this, could ever embody the class and effortless elegance of Michelle Obama or Dr. Jill Biden. Yes, yes. Listen, stand by. Those first ladies have used fashion not as a punitive tool to stick it to political enemies, nor as a bored, nihilistic shrug, but as something generous and welcoming. Think the pure sweetness

of Michelle's Jason Wu floral gown for the Obama's first inaugural, or Jill's pastel blue coat that echoed the colors of Ukraine's flag when Zelensky visited the White House. Literally, she says, neither Melania nor Casey DeSantis could ever embody the class and effortless elegance of Michelle or Dr. Jill. Now, first of all, Dr. Jill Biden's fashion has been the subject of much criticism all over Twitter. This woman is not exactly the next Cindy Crawford. Okay, I'm sorry, but look at this. She's got the sneakers with the yellow and green flower dress. And I don't know what's happening on the shoulder there, but the left and the right have had a lot of fun at Jill Biden's expense, thanks to her fashion choices. So to talk about

them like it is effortless elegance, wherever she goes is ridiculous. As for the class that she and Michelle so effortlessly embody, I don't remember Casey DeSantis or Melania Trump ever calling Latinos little burritos in a national speech. adult life I'm ever proud of my country. I didn't wear my hair naturally because I wasn't I didn't think America could handle natural black hair. Made up stories about being subjected to racism when she went into various Walmart or Kmart. Can't remember the name of the brand store that she was allegedly subjected to when she was speaking to a black audience, then laughed about it as a non-racist incident when she was on one of the late night shows. Is that classy, really, to be in a country that helps you become first lady, not to mention a successful lawyer beforehand, to be married to the president of the United States, who's also a black person, and to use your big platform to bash the country as still just as

racist? That's class. That, Jesse, is class. Oh, yeah. Boy, I'll tell you what. Every time I saw Michelle Obama take a dump all over this country, I was blown away by her class. I can't stand these people. Jill Biden is the exact same way. But the Obamas were maybe the worst at this. I remember that video. I remember it like it was yesterday. I believe it was a Memorial Day celebration.

Don't quote me on that, Megan. I may have it wrong, where they caught Michelle Obama on camera standing there by Barack Obama. And she leans in and she says to him, all this for a damn flag. And you could see the scorn on her face and the scorn in his face as he leaned back and agreed. Real genuine America haters. And frankly, the authors of much of what we see now, because it's all Obama's America-hating staffers working for old President Poopypants now as he just wanders through the hallways. So the Obamas and their America-ica hating fingerprints are still all over things

and i never saw class that's for sure i don't give a crap how they dress i can hardly dress myself anyway but i never saw class and how they spoke about this country that's for sure and i do i miss a time when presidents democrat and republican spoke lovingly about america i miss those days, but those days are sadly probably gone. You know who needs a lesson in class? The author of this piece, Katie Baker, who actually finishes the piece by mocking Casey DeSantis' status as a breast cancer survivor. She has the gall to bring up her breast cancer in this hit piece. This is absolutely the worst part. She says, so what does Casey DeSantis want us to know about her? What does she stand for? Well, we know she's a woman who has high ambitions for her awkward husband. Oh, unlike Hillary Clinton,

when Bill Clinton was running, where she said, we're going to get two for the price of one. We know she's a woman who understands the power of the image. We know she's a woman who has overcome the great trials of a breast cancer diagnosis. Anyone going through that must have strength and grit. Still, we've all met people who stared death in the face and came out the other side incandescently glowing with life and with love. Perhaps that is the case in Casey DeSantis' private and personal life. But on the public stage, with that black leather jacket, she's telling us she stands for something else. She's telling us she is cheering on a spouse who gets his kicks off targeting his fellow Americans. She's telling us she's down with his message of division and dehumanization. She's telling us they are ready for far more power. She's incandescent in her black leather jacket at her husband's side,

both of them seething with hate. Wow. She's beyond pale. Look, the second you oppose these people in the smallest way, you're hateful. You're hateful and you're bigoted and you hate women or you hate black people or you hate the planet or you hate something. That's how they they operate. And I will actually give them credit for this. That

writer is a great example. That piece is a great example, Megan, of how they put their people. The communists always put their people in the right mindset. Mindset leads to results. Everyone knows this. They will look at you. They'll look at me and they'll say, look at that Nazi white supremacist. And their people will get in the mindset that they're fighting against some inhuman evil that must be defeated at all costs. Our people will still say things like, well, I think it is hard. He's a good man. And look, we all we all kind of want the right things. And he's not a George Soros prosecutor who's turning criminals loose to intentionally burn down society and cause chaos. He's just he's just soft on crime. We constantly put our people in the wrong mindset. They don't. They'll look at

Casey DeSantis, who just survived breast cancer, and they'll rip her to shreds because they know they're prepping people. We don't do that. And that's part of our failure as anti-communists. It's worse than she just survived it and they rip her. They raise it. They raise it as we would have expected you to be nicer after surviving it. But then you wore that jacket about Florida being where woke goes to die. And therefore, we know you're evil. Therefore, we know you're seething with hate. That is absolutely disgusting. And any self-respecting editor at the Daily Beast should have told Katie Baker that undermines everything else you wrote. Maybe you have a point on this, that or the other thing. That's up to the readers to decide. But that's beyond. He's right. Thank you so much for being here.

Help him surpass Jim Comey, for the love of God. Go buy the anti-communist manifesto today. How do they get it? What was the website? jessikellybook.com? jessikellybook.com has everything you want. If you want a signed copy, a regular copy, book tour info, it's all at jessikellybook.com. We made it easy for people like me.

Good. Win a date with Jesse. There's no limit to what tour this could go. Thank you for coming on. See you soon, I hope. Megan, it's an honor. I love you, Megan. Thank you. Likewise. Right back at you. Coming up, our friend Joseph Massey has a new book tour. Do you remember Joseph Massey? He's this incredibly talented poet who was canceled in the Me Too movement. His life was practically ruined, and he decided to self-publish a book of poems. Not long after that, dealing with depression and so on, thanks to what had happened to him,

well, all of you helped him support himself and actually helped that book do really well. He's got a new book, and we're going to talk to him about that and where his life has gone next. Poet Joseph Massey joins me now. He was on the show last year, I think it was April of 2022, to discuss his attempted cancellation in the literary world. No one is safe. No one. Well, he has a new book out of poetry called The Light of No Other Hour. And we would love for you to help support Joseph after the mob tried to cancel him and ruin his career. We are bringing it back and it's working. Joseph, welcome back to the show. How are you? I'm great. Thanks, Megan, for having me again. Oh, my pleasure. It's great to see you. So just to refresh people who didn't see the April of 2022 episode, you were doing very

well for a poet. You know, it's like very few poets wind up being multi-multi-millionaires, but you were making your bones as a working poet reviewed by the New York Times, important partnerships in the poetry world. Then an ex-girlfriend with whom you had an affair started to try to take you down online very successfully and started writing all these poetry organizations calling you a predator it was vicious and it worked because let's face it the poetry publications they're not exactly known for their steely spines and so you know we can laugh about it now, but it was extremely traumatic for you. Extreme.

Yeah, that's the right word. Because I didn't just lose this career that I built. I didn't even realize I had a career until maybe that last year of things going really well. And I knew, wow, I could make money doing this. I can sustain my life doing this. And yeah, then it was, that was ripped away, but it wasn't just that, that went away. It was also my entire, almost my entire friend group. And it just kept rolling out and out over the course of a year. You know, a book would be

taken down by one of my publishers, be memory but that wasn't enough for the for this mob of people and this particular ex-girlfriend so they would then go to you know the next book that hadn't been erased and they wouldn't stop it went on for at least a year um and it was devastating i ended up hospitalized um but i think the the important thing to note is that I didn't stop writing throughout that whole nightmare. And it just proved to me that poetry for me is not about a career in the world and seeing the world in a way that makes it more livable for me and hopefully for the people who read my work. We discussed it more at length in our first interview, and everyone should go back and listen to that episode.

It's well worth your time. But one of the objections you had was you were being canceled in place after place without them even wanting to hear your side. It was, and she was playing the believe all women card. She actually was writing, you know, in this era of believe women, believe me. And they were without even no, even purported attempt at equal justice or allowing a defense. Yeah, that's right. You read parts of that letter out loud the last time we were on, and it's just so absurd. And it becomes more absurd as the years go by looking at it, that this letter could have been the thing that catapulted the attempted destruction of my life.

It's so ridiculous. I was accused of calling a woman hot at a poetry reading and that was enough to it was like a fly trap it's like all the people from my past even though i made amends and changed my life because i was you know i was quite a bad drunk in my 20s but not a predator by any by any means um and uh, that it was that effective is shocking. It's shocking that poets would behave with such herd mentality, because I never imagined poets behaving that way. I always thought poets were mavericks and people who stood out and stood against

the current, but that's not the case anymore. This is a weird question, maybe. But first of all, I totally understand and can relate to as the years go by post cancellation, you start to see how absurd the thing was like, my God, how does such a thing upend my life so dramatically? But it's hard to have that perspective in the moment when you're losing so much that's important to you, right? I get that. And that is one benefit of time. But my weird question is, do you think in any way, because artists who've been through painful things, it can help their art. Have you experienced that at all? Absolutely, yes.

Yeah, because having only poetry to rely on for a sense of self, because my, well, I hate to use the word identity, but my identity, my sense of self was threatened to be totally atomized and fragmented beyond recognition by the cancellation. But by writing poetry, I was reminded of who I am. I dedicated my life to poetry at a very young age. And so the work became very concentrated. And I noticed that certain things I let myself get away with in poetry in the past and writing, you know, they went away because the stakes were so high.

It was life or death for me. And poetry kept me alive through those horrible, horrible months of just utter destruction. The, you know, it's been years now. Did any of the friends come back? Because you've gotten more outspoken on Twitter. I love, love, love your Twitter account. I did a big promo for that last year. I still love it.

You're scrolling along your timeline. It's like, F you, no, F you, F you. And then you see a Joseph Massey tweet, which has got something beautiful for you because your photography is equally beautiful, where you just get these little moments of like the reflection of this gorgeous building in a puddle or the snow just after it's fallen just so. And these things that we all see all the time, we take a moment ideally and we notice it, but we don't memorialize it. And you bring that into my daily timeline, which is one of the things I love about you. But you also do tweet about politics. You're very anti-cancel culture. You've been critical of the Biden administration.

So I'm going to guess the friends didn't come back because I'm just making an assumption they were leftists. Well, the friends that did come back, you know, or stayed, a few stayed during the cancellation. For example, one who I've been friends with for 15 years, much older poet, certainly I'm not going to name him, but he wouldn't even be seen with me in public during the cancellation. We would have to meet in the back room of the coffee shop or meet at a bench behind a building, things like that. So nobody really came back. Some people stuck around, but it was in that conditional kind of way. But definitely when I became more outspoken politically on Twitter, those friends went away completely because they're terrified of any kind of guilt

by association. And it's not just guilt by association. They're worried their careers would be horribly affected if they were seen communicating with me or seen having coffee with me, as it turned out. I think it's J, the initial J, Massey, M-A-S-S-E-Y, poet, right? That's your handle? That's right. J. Massey, poet, God. All right, J-Mad. Truly, trust me, do it. It'll be the best Twitter follow you've ever had. And nobody else is injecting beauty into my timeline. Literally nobody else. You're the only one. And it can be, I know that you talked about how you were hospitalized, and I know you've talked about how it's been a rough time even since you last came on the show. But there's something beautiful about that too. And I don't mean to sound like I'm reveling in your struggle with depression, but I think a lot of us have those moments, you know, where we feel really blue or you feel hopeless. You know, you look at our society, you look around

and there's a lot of pain and there's a lot of reason to feel down. And there is something worthwhile about having that feeling also captured and revealed via photography or a poem too? Do you find that therapeutic? Absolutely, yeah. I mean, during the, well, even before I was canceled, I dealt with major depression as the diagnosis and uh when i read art that delves into the artist's depression or sorrow or melancholia i like that word quite a bit better than depression it seems to hit the mark but um i i always feel less alone and certainly when i was being canceled, reading, for instance, the work of the poet Ovid, who I think I'm pronouncing that correctly, O-V-I-D, who was exiled, reading his poetry written in exile, reading poets who've been cast aside. I had company, you know, I had friends again in the the art you know in in the poetry and i hope that my work especially people are suffering with depression or anxiety uh that they can find

uh some kind of similar company um and and what i do um and that's really the aim with the the new book the light of uh no other hour was many of those poems were written during a deep spell, one of the deepest spells of depression over the last year, which has broken, thank God. But yeah, I hope people get it in that way. And it's not therapy, you know, it's not therapy. It's finding a way to live with the sorrow and transcend it, hopefully, by grace.

What does the light of no other hour mean? I wanted to find a way to say the present moment or now. How can I say the present moment? Well, the light of no other hour, the light that is cast upon us right now, whether it's night or day. It can be an internal light as well, if you see it from a spiritual perspective, which I certainly do too. But even just very literally, all we have is now, and all we have is the light of this particular moment, the light of no other hour. May I read one of of the poems here i would i would love that okay i

just want people to get a flavor for the beauty of how you write um this one's called the last poem forgive me because i'm sure i'm not going to read this the way joseph massey would um it is enough to be nothing porous to what. It is enough to sit on a bench and watch a contrail dissolve into dust to make a day of it. It is enough to look in order to see and to know there's a difference. It is enough to walk myself awake in sub-zero wind, snow-blind and heartbroken. It is enough to forget. It is enough to borrow from the dead a voice to sing through, to survive the season. It is enough the poems cramped in the margins of a water-stained notebook. Leave them there to be revised by time. It is enough alone at the end of the year,

engulfed by a presence I am not compelled to name. I love the way that makes me feel. We get so wrapped into everything, utter stimuli wherever we turn. And you are the antidote to that in all of your postings, your writings, your photography. It is enough. And you live this life, don't you? You live a quiet life. Sometimes you tweet about that too. That enables you to remind us that this is okay and this is actually beautiful. You read the poem beautifully, by the way, better than I don't know how anyone can exist in this world of constant noise, you know, constant bombardment with, you know, news is breaking 24 hours a day. I remember, I'm old enough to remember when, you know, there would be breaking news maybe once every couple of weeks, special report, you know, now it's every second is a special report.

And how essential it is to notice the sacred and the ordinary. And if one doesn't do that, how does it affect your quality of life? activity of simply noticing things to ground myself, to be anchored in a world that would otherwise be untenable. I remember my primary care physician who I love, he's quite a character, talking about how one of the things that's important to do is look out the window when you're in the back of a taxi cab or a bus, what have you. Like, stop staring down at your damn phone. Always trying to get more information, the latest this, more stimuli. Look at a tree. Look at your fellow humans.

You know, do something that will ground you because we can become untethered too much time spent in the make-believe leads to an untethering and the grounding you know that you write about and capture for us that's an important part of staying human that's right yeah that's what i want my work to do to to help ground not so much to help that that's wrong, because it's not therapy, it's not, but to draw the reader into a keener sense of awareness of what's immediately around them. That, to me, seems to be the task of most artists that I love in various fields, painting, music, poetry. And yeah, it's absolutely essential.

I want people to survive this world and to find grace. Now, is this book self-published like the last one? Yes, it's published by my imprint, The Exile Press, and it's only available on Amazon. Okay, only available on Amazon. It's called The Light of No Other Hour. The Light of No Other Hour. You should add it because it will bring some beauty and thought into your life. And you should add it by it because you want to support Joseph Massey and fight back against these cancellation bullies who annihilate people they don't think have any power. You can subscribe to Joseph Substack. I recommend that too. josephmassey.substack, right? It's josephmassey, M-A-S-S-E-Y.substack.com. And again, check out his new book, go to amazon.com. Please, I'm going to do it right after the show and make sure you buy lots of copies, ideally being a lovely gift. When do you ever give somebody poetry?

Father's Day is coming up. The light of no other hour. All the best to you, Joseph. It's wonderful to see you again. Thank you, Megan. Good luck with it all. We will be back tomorrow to continue the conversation with all of you. Thank you for supporting Joseph and Jesse too.

Two guys in two very different places, but equally important in the national conversation. I hope you'll support them. Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.