The Megyn Kelly Show - Parents Fighting Back and COVID Policy Hypocrisy, with Dr. Joseph Ladapo and Brian Echevarria

Episode Date: February 23, 2022

Megyn Kelly is joined by Dr. Joseph Ladapo, Surgeon General of Florida, to talk about the early mistakes of the pandemic, the media reaction to his COVID policies, Fauci and Walensky, and more. Also, a Knox County, TN mom, Heather Carroll, who is fighting back over mask mandates in schools, and Brian Echevarria, dad and candidate in North Carolina, to talk about the viral video he had talking about a race-based focus in schools, how race has been elevated in our culture today, how we can work together to change perceptions in America, and more. This episode has been republished due to technical issues

Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations. Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show. We're coming to you live from the Sirius XM studios right in the heart of New York City today. This is the first time I've actually done the show from this location, and I feel like a grown-up. Usually, I'm sitting in my house. I have a studio in my house. It's just me and Abby sitting there. My team's all over the country. And now, look at this. Here we are. Very cool. It's actually funny because the Sirius Studios are right across from where Fox News was. So, you know, it's like my car drives itself to this location. I feel like I've been here for a long, long time. It's great to be here in this this location. I feel like I've been here for a long, long time.

It's great to be here in this new location with you. And we'll see how the show goes from here. So we've got a whole great show of guests for you today. Highly recommended by you, our guests have been. I keep telling you, if you want to leave a comment on the show, go to the Apple podcast, sort of download the show on Apple and then leave a comment. And I do read them all. There's over 22,000 of them. I read every single one. And we get some of our guest suggestions or just other suggestions. Some people are like, there's a technical difficulty or what have you. And today's guests have come highly recommended by you, our listeners.

In just a bit, we're going to be joined by Dr. Joseph Ladapo. He's the Surgeon General of Florida. He's a rock star, right? Love, love, love this guy. They call him the anti-Fauci for a reason. He speaks a lot of sense and he's become just sort of a hero to a lot of us during this whole pandemic. So he's going to be joining us. But first, a story out of Knox County, Tennessee, brought to you by Popular Demand. We looked into this case and really found it deeply disturbing on a number of levels. And it's basically about a federal lawsuit that has forced the masks to stay on students in this school district, despite a governor's order saying that they can come off and a vote by the school board saying that they can come off.

But a judge intervened. And now the parents and the students in that school district are at their wits' end trying to figure out what their options are. And joining me to discuss all of it is Heather Carroll. She's a mom of two students in Knox County who is fed up with the situation there. Heather, thank you so much for being here. Oh, no, thank you, Megan. I'm glad to be here speaking with you today. I cannot believe the number of times you've had sort of this ray of hope shining down on you only to have it covered up. And the pushback, that's really starting to get crazy down there in Knox.

So tell us about your community, Knox County. Where is that? What kind of community is it? Sure. Knox County is actually the home of Knoxville, Tennessee, the University of Tennessee. We're about two and a half hours west of, I'm sorry, east of Nashville. So we're one of the bigger cities in Tennessee. So it's a great family community. I mean, a lot of it centers around the college here, but great place to raise a family. So yeah, we love living here. My husband's originally from here. And so I've been here about 10 years and love Knoxville. Okay. And I know you've got two kids. How old are. And they were enrolled at an elementary school here in Knox County. And originally, you know, there was no mask mandate. The Board of Education had voted more than once, twice, I believe three times to keep it parental choice. If you wanted to mask your kid, you were absolutely able to do that. So for seven weeks, Megan, our children went to school unmasked. And then this federal case

happened. And since September 24th, which has been 151 days, children in Knox County have been masked K through 12. Must have been pretty glorious when you had the school board on your side voting to remove the masks. But I know it was tight. I mean, you think, I think Tennessee, I think, okay, it's probably mostly Republican in your area. And, you know, probably most people would be in favor of taking that mask off. But it was tight, right? It was like 4-3 or 5-4? 5-4, 5-4, which it's actually changed now. It's 6-3. One of the board members that originally voted for a mask mandate has since changed their mind, but yeah, it was 5-4, but that's all we needed to keep it parental choice. That's the way it works.

Yeah. And honestly, it's an elected board and they voted more than once. It wasn't a one time thing. They voted three times. And again, they all had the same solution was to keep it parental choice. And my girls attended one of the bigger elementary schools in the county. And I can tell you probably going to school those seven weeks unmasked, about 90 to 95 percent of kids were coming to school unmasked. And this is right at the end of the summer and the beginning of the fall, you know, when the Delta surge was happening. And so, you know, it was it was really, really sad day in Knox County for a lot of families. So then, right, so everything's going along swimmingly, as we've seen in every jurisdiction

that has lifted the mask mandate, or refused to impose one in the first place? In no county, not one, have we seen some massive surge or even detectable or reportable surge in COVID cases. It's just not happening, contrary to those who want to pretend otherwise. So in your school, you got what we've been covering now is a trend. You got a lawsuit filed by first three, now four students claiming that they have a recognized disability under the Americans with Disabilities Act and that the only reasonable accommodation that the school can provide to protect them is mandatory masking of all students, teachers, staff, and so on. And it went to a federal district court, a George W. Bush appointee. And what did he rule?

Well, he ruled an injunction. So the trial is still occurring or going on, I should say. He imposed a preliminary injunction, meaning the masks have to stay on. Yes, yes. And he stated very little exemptions. Originally, when he sent down the mask mandate on the 24th of September, he said that children with autism and trachs could have an exemption. But then you had several families that, you know, you know, that, that, that their children need exemptions as well, and they were not included. And so you have a lot of parents also fighting like the Dickens to try to get their children out of the mask because they have, whether they have special needs. We have over 3000 kids in our County that receive some

sort of speech therapy or speech services from Knox County schools, and they can't even get mask exemptions. You have friends that their children do get a mask exemption, but their teacher is masked. And so they also don't realize that these children rely on being able to see their teacher's expressions in their teacher's mouth to understand what they're saying. So it's really sad that children that really need a mask exemption are struggling to get them. So here's my question. Because of the judge, the judge. We covered this at a Pennsylvania a week or two ago, and the alleged disabilities were, they ranged from like obesity to ADHD, which ADHD does not make you more prone to a negative outcome from COVID. Obesity may, but it depends. But in any event, they were unspecified. In this case, you've got three

kids who sound very troubled in terms of the physical issues that they're up against. I accept that these are disabled children based on what I read in the complaint anyway. There's one with chronic lung disease, an autoimmune condition, autism. They use a feeding tube. I mean, it goes on. Another one, a 12-year-old, just so the audience understands, has something called, I think it's Jaubert syndrome, rare genetic disorder, brain malformation, uses a wheelchair, feeding tube, and so on. And then a 10-year-old fourth grader with Shone's complex, rare congenital heart disease, restricts blood flow, feeding tube, and so on, numerous open heart surgeries. So I think we can both accept that these are legitimately disabled children.

A hundred percent. And that, you know, I certainly would not want to discount or devalue those children and what their needs may be. Where I have issue with is that according to the ADA, it's a reasonable accommodation. And I just, I find it hard to believe that the reasonable accommodation is to mask 60,000 other children. And I mean, I'm not like you, Megan, I'm not a lawyer, but I did read about the ADA. And I don't know how my child's face can be a part of making an accommodation for other children. And with these families, I believe a few of those children are learning virtually. And why not? Why can't we make a solution that doesn't impact all

of 91 schools in Knox County? So I am for let's find them a reasonable accommodation. I am for let's do something that can get these children back in school. I just don't think masking the rest of the children in Knox County is the solution. Right. I mean, even if you really want to accept that other people have to wear masks to accommodate the children, what about just those classes or even just those schools, the entire school district, 60,000 kids, that makes no sense. But what about the fact that, you know, more and more doctors now, and these people who are you see them on CNN. They went to Harvard. These are not sort of right wing doctors. I hate to make medicine a right wing left thing, but, you know, it has become it in COVID. They're saying one way masking works. One way masking, if it's an N95, is sufficient to protect the wearer.

And this lawsuit was filed at a time when COVID was surging and not, you know, the way it stands today, it doesn't take recognition of the fact that Omicron has come through and gone and created probably herd immunity and we're not dealing with the same situation. So can't you get the lawsuit thrown out on that basis? Because I know it's pending in front of the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals. You guys have filed it and you're waiting to argue it, but there's new information the court needs to hear. I would agree. And also when the court or the Judge Greer issued his injunction, the day that he issued it, there were zero new cases in five to 17 year olds of COVID that day, because I watched the COVID database pretty regularly. And now, and also back then, vaccines weren't available for five and up, and now, and also back then vaccines weren't available for five and up and now they're available for those school-aged children. So my question is, you know, how can these, these disabled children, are they able to get the vaccine that would help protect them?

I mean, so there's a lot of variables that were not in play that are in play now. And, um, I think where a lot of parents have a lot of frustration is we are handcuffed to this case. And, um, you know, we have a law director that's also an elected official that that has been defending this case for the Knox County School Board. And then the Attorney General of Tennessee is doing it for Governor Lee. So we as parents, we're just we're just clueless as what what can we do? We feel so helpless because my husband, I actually ended up pulling our children after the holidays and putting them in private school. Just because with a kindergarten or first grader, you know, how can you learn how

to read and understand phonics when it's when you're masked up eight hours a day, they did get a break, weather pending when they were at recess and at lunch. So it really was heartbreaking. And there's tons of families that, you know, really their children are struggling with sensory issues, high anxiety from the mask. And I just feel like Judge Greer is not even taking those children into consideration. Right. Right. They cater to the most vulnerable denominator, which in some circumstances might make sense. But now we've got vaccines and we've got therapeutics and we know a lot more about covid. And it's like, well, how are these children functioning outside of the school? Do the parents ever bring them anywhere? Because you cannot mask society indefinitely. Well, and that's the interesting thing, Megan, is like I mentioned,

the University of Tennessee is here. So we were going to football games and indoor basketball games with thousands of other people. Nobody wears a mask anywhere else in Knox County. There's not a mask mandate in grocery stores and churches, the university and workplaces. So, but our children have to go eight hours a day and they have to be masked. So that doesn't even make sense because even though they're masked at school, they're not masked the other hours of the day that they're not at school. Well, and these other students, these others, the vulnerable students that have filed the lawsuit presumably have been at school either Well, and these other students, the vulnerable students that have filed the lawsuit, presumably have been at school either in the beginning of the school year when masks were not required or prior to COVID when we've had outbreaks of things like pneumonia or, you know,

transmissible diseases that could be problematic for them. I mean, this is an individual decision that parents in the unfortunate position of having kids who are this vulnerable have to make. But in no world did we ever look around and say every single other person in my district, in my state, must change the way they behave for the majority of the day with their children to accommodate me. Exactly. And I think we have to take a holistic view of it. I mean, it's not just our physical health. And as we've seen with speech therapy, you know, that that's on the rise for kids because they've been long term mass. You have other issues that are going on social behavioral and just even for my like for young children that are learning to understand expression and relate to their peers. You know, it's not just about our physical. And so again, you know, do you want to drive home that I don't, I empathize with these families. I can't imagine what that's like to have to make those choices, but judge the judge Greer's injunction to mask all 60,000 kids and 9,000 members of staff. That's, I mean, that's just not acceptable.

No, it's not. It's not. And there's gotta be some way of protecting those children while letting the rest of the school district get back to normal. Now, I want to ask you about this law director, because this is an interesting piece of the case. This guy is supposed to be representing the school board and your interests, which, as expressed by the school board, are unmasking the children. And this guy sounds like he's on the other side to me. I know you guys, you know, the couple of the school board members have made a motion to to either get him off the case. Or now I realize I hear there's been an accommodation of at least bringing in a second attorney because he his proposals for like what should happen to the children inside of the district right now who don't perfectly comply with this mask mandate sound draconian. Can you tell us about that? Yeah, he had some suggestions that quite honestly, we're not going to fly suspending children if they were not masked properly. Yes, they voted at the county commissioner's meeting last night. I was there and spoke and they did vote an agreeance that the board of education can now vote to bring an outside counsel, which would act as an advisory. It would not be a co-chair or co-counsel, if you excuse me, but it would be an

advisory to the law department and to the law director. And then I think ultimately who they pick, that relies on who the law department chooses. So we're looking at a lengthy uphill battle ahead of us, Megan, because we're not even on the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals for our appeal date. You know, case at the district court level, because of the change in circumstance. You know, it's almost like the appeal is moot at this point. The information has changed so much. I almost feel like you need to go back into the district court and ask for a rehearing based on the new information. And hopefully this new lawyer, because it doesn't sound like this law director was really even on your side. I mean, this guy, I'm looking at his proposals to, you mentioned suspend the children for not wearing their masks properly. Okay. Do you know anything about a kindergartner? Anything at all? I mean, does he, does this guy have children? Not allow the parents to attend any sporting

events, shutting the lights off and sending everyone home at extracurricular activities where the parents and the students are not in full compliance. And then, as I understand it, when arguing the case, this guy did not introduce a single medical expert for the court to consider who would make clear that universal masking in schools does nothing. And even if you could make the argument that it does a little something, the harm far outweighs the good. Exactly. And that was my question. I actually called the law department back before the holidays and spoke with one of the attorneys that's on the case. And I said, I'm not a legal expert, but where's the medical experts in this case? There's a plethora of data out there that does not support long-term masking for children,

that does not support the stop of transmission of COVID. You know, and it's, to me, it's what's comical is that this is the most dangerous virus in history, but, you know, a Scooby-Doo mask is going to stop it. So that's why I have, I think we have to look at like a holistic approach and how it's truly affecting the kids. I mean, we have over 7,000 children in our system that have either an IEP or a 504, excuse me, and they can't even get exemption. There's been 375 exemptions given

by the law department. The law department ultimately has to approve and then submit the names of the children to Judge Greer. And he stated in the very beginning that he wanted as little as a few exemptions as possible. So I think it's a... How can it be that in a state like, you know, normally in Connecticut, which is far bluer than Tennessee, our mask mandate is going to come down 228 and hallelujah, our school just agreed that it will come, that the mask will come off on March 1st. How can a state like mine be first to take off the masks before a state like yours, before a school district like Knox County, Tennessee? I mean, it's not like all these other school districts in L.A. and New York and so on, which are talking about taking down their mask mandates, don't have disabled students. I mean, you guys are going to be the last ones with it. For what? Because Greer won't take another look at the case?

That's probably a better question for the law department. I've called down there. I don't know how many times and tried to get some sort of update and response. And, um, you know, it's baffling. It's baffling. I don't, I have yet to sense any kind of sense of urgency from this law department. I don't know that they're aware. I'm just, I'm maybe I'm being naive, but I don't know that they're aware of, of the struggles that this is causing. They say they don't want the mask mandate. So you had a lot of parents last night at the County commissioners meeting, speaking and asking the County commissioners to please approve for the board to bring an outside counsel. And as, and it's twofold. So as a secondary, there's parents that are talking like, can we bring in our own case? You know, it's like, what can we do? You know, I mean, I don't see how the ADA can justify

masking another person without their, you know, without their will. You got to get a new lawyer. This guy, David Buck, the Knox County law director is, is not doing an effective job. You need a new lawyer and you need to go outside of this board, you know, lawyer and his advisor altogether and file your own lawsuit and get another case started. And if it has to be in another court, then so be it. But this court is just fine, too. There's new information. The court has an obligation to act. And I mean, I would also try to push for emergency relief at the Sixth Circuit. You've got to stay on them. But if you don't have an aggressive lawyer, none of this is going to happen. You know, I think we're seeing now

when parents get involved, when parents get aggressive, they get results because the science is not there. It's not there. So I admire you speaking out. I admire all the moms who wrote to me on the Apple comments. Otherwise, I wouldn't have known about this. You're popular with us, Megan. Oh, well, I appreciate it. And I appreciate hearing these stories because you're not alone. You know, as we started, we look into it. And again, Pennsylvania, a couple of other states, we've seen the same thing, trying to use the ADA to get around laws, executive orders, and so on, school board mandates. And that's not the way forward.

There's going to have to be a different accommodation for these kids besides making thousands and tens of thousands of kids, you know, wear masks for 12 hours. Heather, thank you. We're going to continue following. Yeah, I'll give you the last word. Oh, I was just gonna say, I think we're the only federal case in the country where our school board had actually elected not to have a mask mandate. And then a federal case was brought against us versus where a lot of the other similar cases was that the board wanted to implement a mask mandate and then federal cases were brought forward. So it's a very unique situation. And we really are at the mercy of this judge until so hoping and praying that maybe we can find an aggressive

attorney for the parents here in Knox County. It is crazy because the other side has been insisting on things like they want monitors throughout the school to make sure that the mask monitors, yeah, because they compliance. I mean, come on, really? Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's sad. And then what's happening is that teachers are spending most of their time focusing on masking and not educating their kids, educating the children. So we need to get back to normal as soon as possible. Yeah, we do. And that does not include I mean, what they want from this mask monitor is make sure that everyone has the necessary training for proper masking and a disciplinary plan for those who don't follow it. It's like, are you like, this is not the way children are. This is not the solution to your problem. If your child's health or God forbid life depends on my child wearing his mask perfectly all day long and the other 60,000 doing the same, you're in the wrong school. That is not a child who should be in public school. I'm sorry, but that's the truth. And that's a burden for both children, right? For the child with the

disabilities and then also making sure that the, I mean, these children are now starting to be like, am I going to get sick if I don't wear my mask? And we have safety patrols in elementary school and fifth graders at one of the elementary schools are being told, make sure your peers are keeping their mask up. I mean, that's not their burden to carry. So, you know, I just want kids to be able to be kids. And hopefully we can find a solution sooner than later. Yes. Heather, all the best.

We'll stay on. Okay, Megan, thank you so much for having me. Good luck to you. Wow. Up next. I don't know if you saw this video. It went totally viral online. It was dad at a school board meeting with a very powerful message about CRT and his kids and how destructive this has been within his school district and elsewhere. And he is here to bring us that message firsthand next.

Welcome back to The Megyn Kelly Show. For far too long, we have witnessed governments and even school boards attempting to divide and control our children and their parents, too. Now, one fed up father of three says he's taken back the wheel. Here is just a little of what he told his North Carolina school board in what's now become a viral moment earlier this month. I'm biracial. I'm bilingual. I'm multicultural. The fact is, in America, in North Carolina, I can do anything I want. And I teach that to my children. And the person who tells my little pecan color kids that they're somehow oppressed based on the color of their skin would be absolutely wrong and absolutely at war with me. What the mask showed us is that the parents, the most powerful group of people in our country, that they're taking back the wheel. You believe in CRT, I wanna tell you you're a liar,

because that means you look at your black neighbor and say that they're oppressed, and you look at your white neighbor and say that they're evil, regardless of the experience that you've had with them. And we're not going to do that. I have an eight-year-old daughter who is absolutely dynamic, who can do anything athletically, intellectually, spiritually, and emotionally. She is a dynamo. And I don't want a man swimming against her in the pool. The fact is, I don't want her playing against boys in soccer. I don't even let my sons rough her up. Do you think I'm going to let your son rough her up? This is what we're talking about.

Policy going back to the parents. That dad is Brian Echeverria, and he's my guest now. Brian, thank you so much for being here. Thank you. I loved what you said and the way you said it and how powerfully you did it. I mean, I feel like the people in that room must have been on their feet cheering you for being so clear in your messaging. So let me just start with a little bit of background on you so that the audience understands who you are, where you came from, how you got to this fiery

place. What's your background? Where'd you grow up? Tell us about your family. Oh man, I have the most awesome family. So, you know, I'm biracial. Born in Miami, Florida. I moved around quite a bit because I was born to a teenage mom. So I stayed with aunts and uncles and my, my parents were in the military. So I ended up in Spain and Alaska. So I grew up a little bit of everywhere, actually. But that's me. I've been loved by people who look like everyone we cross in our path every day. You know, it's fascinating to me because Glenn Lowry was on my show about a year ago. And I said, Glenn, what is the solution to all of this?

You know, he doesn't like CRT or any of that stuff either. Like, what is the solution? And he said, honestly, Megan, we need more biracial marriages, more biracial unions, you know? So it's like, in the same way, I feel like a mother's of both a boy and a girl could be the solution to like the Me Too problem, right? Parents of, you know, kids of biracial couples could be the solution to the CRT problem. It it really could be. I mean, that would definitely contribute because, you know, you can't teach me that white people or black people or anything because they're all

in my family and I know them very well and they love me and I love them. I read something that you said, something like, I know black people and white people have been getting along since 1977 because that's when I was conceived. At least 1977. I know that for a fact. Okay. So you grew up all over the place, military brat, and you get married. You actually had a very sweet posting about meeting your wife and seemed like true love.

And then how many kids do you have total? We have three, 14, 12, and my dynamic daughter just turned nine yesterday. Okay. Awesome. I've got a 10 year old, so I know what it's like. And you have them in public school in North Carolina? No, they're going to public school next year for football. So we homeschool here. We're involved with the local school system by way of sports. And that's what really upsets me is the kids that are out there on the teams, they are, I mean, they're being taught this and they share it with my children. Some of the racial things that are said to them that they've learned in school is just amazing. Like what? Like, you know, you know, you're only here because you're black, you know, your father's only doing well because he's black, or they only like him because he's black. They've been told

that I'm the token and all of those sort of things. I mean, it's just, it's just amazing things. You know, obviously children can be mean, but they're learning that you're either oppressed or you're evil at school. Hmm. So this is pernicious. And I do think this is related to what they're teaching in school. I mean, you could definitely say that's, that's old fashioned racism. You could have heard that 20 years ago, um, as a, as a student or what, what have you, but I do think the constant focus on race and the constant knee jerk elevation of, you know, a black student or a black person or, you know, like what Supreme Court justice we need to have has to have black skin. It has to be a woman has this has this backlash effect of people just assuming then that people of color or women, what have you, they've they've gotten to where they're getting because of those things, right? Like it has a reverse whiplash effect of undermining the very people these woke liberals claim to want to support. Absolutely. So, you know, next year when my son goes to the local high school,

it's like they undermine everything. They pretend like they want to build up minorities and everything else, but they're the ones who really stand in the way. It's like the anti-Dr. King theology or something where Dr. King says the content of your character, and now they're teaching the color of your skin. And it's just the opposite of everything I've taught my children. My children have seen me prosper. They've seen me do well. They've seen me get through adversity, bounce back. And all of a sudden they're being told, no, they can't. When I've been telling them, yes, you can all of this time. Right. You've been living it. That's the thing. I've seen this done too. Like I don't mean to sound dismissive of actual racism, but attitude, whether it's racism, sexism, or any of the isms

plays a massive part. You know, your belief that you can, that you will, that no one will stop you. It does matter. We're being told today it doesn't, but it does. It absolutely does. And Megan, I'm actually what I describe as a super minority, meaning being biracial. I've never been a part of the majority in any room. And so I find solidarity in heart and thought and hearts and thoughts don't have colors.

So I've taught my children that you just love everyone. Obviously, there's bad people on Earth. There's there's good people on Earth, but you love everyone. You deal with them for who they are. And that's the opportunity that they've lived through. And when I'm talking to parents, I'm saying, why don't we just all believe our lives? Let's believe our lives. You're interacting one with another. We're at football games, basketball games, everything.

And all of a sudden someone's telling us that there's racial tension and that by virtue of color, you're either going to succeed or not. And now I'm sending my kid into that system. And that's absolutely, I mean, it's terrifying that my child is going to be told the exact opposite. They're going to be left there like, who's lying, dad or the teacher? Yes, that's right. That's right. You've lived it. I mean, you're walking the walk because I know, I read your bio, your biological dad, I understand, uh, went to prison for a stint. You had a stepdad come into your life who was massively helpful and influential, I gather. But the way you talk about your dad and all these characters in your life is very uplifting. You don't, you don't write about

your dad, like, Oh, you know, I went to prison. It's like he overcame that. And I overcame my challenges. And I had great role. Like, I don't know. Were you born with that sort of sunny optimism? Or how was that instilled in you? I think my family believed it. I mean, everyone who loved me from my grandfather down to my mother, to my aunts, no one ever

told me there was something I couldn't do here. You know, They made me believe, apparently some people think wrongfully, but they made me believe that if I wanted to do something, I could. I put in the work, I figure it out, I keep the character and I get out there and give it a shot. And I pass that on to my children saying they're going to have greater opportunities. I expect this next generation that they're going to be a force of nature. I mean, they're the most dynamic generation. And now we have people trying to mess that up. They're past a lot of the racism. They were not victims of anything in our history. The sky is the limit. And I'm like, this is a great opportunity. Don't tell

my children, don't tell anyone's child that there's something they can't do based on their ancestors or based on their color or anything, because the poorest man in America can become the richest man. And the richest man can become the poorest man with bad decisions. You have an opportunity to do what you want here. Yes, it's poison. They want to poison their brains from being these optimistic, can-do, believe-in-self little people to I'm oppressed, I'm victimized, the system's against me, I don't have a tail, me or... No personal accountability. Right. It's totally defeating. You know, what's shocking is, you know, when all of this happened, obviously I was just,

I'm just a parent that showed up at a, at a school board meeting. I'm saying my kid is going to be here and I want certain protections for my kid. Okay. It was in my announcement speech that I felt that way. The surprising thing was the number of teachers who have sent me messages and they've seen what has been taught and they've seen some of the curriculums and the ideas being passed around. And I just want to say that not even the teachers union is really speaking on behalf of the teachers. The teachers don't want this stuff either. No one wants to talk about the sins that their great-great-grandfather committed every time they talk about their family. And that's what we need to move on with. Okay,

great-great-granddaddy in someone's family was not a good guy. He was an alcoholic. We know that. Let's move on. Yeah. Honestly, it doesn't even necessarily matter in the destitution derby seconds thinking about that. It's like, OK, you know, he had a tough that there with all due respect, they're gone. Those people are dead and gone. It doesn't mean we're perfect in America right now. But like the more time you spend mired in that kind of negativity, the less you're less far you're going to get in life. So you mentioned your announcement speech. We should explain that because you're not just a concerned dad. You actually decided to throw your hat in the political ring to have a bigger, more impactful voice. So what are you what are you running for?

I'm running for District 73 General Assembly in North Carolina. And the reason I'm running is I'm a parent. I'm a I'm a son. I'm a grandson. And every political issue is a family issue. Every policy is a parenting issue. And I've come to experience that. So, you know, I step out there. I'm like, there's parents everywhere. I feel like I can get in there and help us win because so many times politically people are into the big fight, you know. But if you're fighting and you're 0 and 13, you know, I appreciate your willingness, but we need to get someone in there who can win a little bit.

And and on the conservative side of the conversation, there tends to be a losing public debate with a lot of issues. And I'm saying, but we we free enterprise is great. Parents rights are great. It's a shame we have to even have words like parents' rights. It used to be understood, right? So I'm the dad, I'm in charge. That was the culture before. Now we need a word and we're going to focus not on fighting, but on winning because our families need it. And when it comes to parents, Megan, you know this, there's no D's in ours. It's all about the opportunities, the safety of my children and according to I think it was Politico had a report, even the Democrats polling is showing them now that their voters don't care about this. When they ask them, like, what do you care about? CRT is at the bottom of the list. All this race essentialism, even the Democrat voters, they don't care about that. It's these activists who are trying to stir up their voters, Black voters in particular, because they misunderstand their Black voters. They think this is what the Black voters want. None of the voters wants this. Only the activists do. Only the activists. So your story reminded me of this. When I was in college, I went to Syracuse, and they had a great lacrosse team, still do. And one of the guys in the team told me his dad was a high school football coach in the area. And he was telling me a story about

how one day they were watching the films of the football game. And he's like some kid on the team. I go, Nelson, you missed that block. Nelson, you cost us that interception. Nelson, you... And Nelson looks at the coach and says, I'm trying, coach. I'm trying. And the coach says, I know you're trying, son. You're just not very good.

To your point, trying's not enough. You got to win. You got to win some of these fights. You've got to win on these issues. You know, because our children aren't an experiment. We can't wait for failed Democrat policies when it comes to kids. You might be able to do that with something like planning and zoning,

but you can't do that with the life of a child. And parents know that. And America is a lot like, I had a neighbor in Florida, they had a tree, a ficus tree, and they were from Portugal, actually. The father comes over to prune the tree because the gentleman wanted the tree to be round. And what occurs is he prunes the tree and it looks crazy. And I'm like, OK, that's not quite right. Then he comes back and he prunes the tree again and it looks crazy. And what ends up occurring is after the third pruning, it grew into a perfect circle. But you had to have patience if you wanted it to be that perfect circle. Everything that needed

to happen had already happened to the tree. And that's what America's like. So they want to demonize the history. And people don't want to wait for the results of the pruning. But America's future says it's going to be a beautiful, fruitful place for everyone here. And if I didn't believe that, I wouldn't be telling that to my children. That's where we're at. I love that. All right. So the question is, what do you do when you're a man like you and you've got kids who are not yet in the school system, and you don't want this stuff taught, and you don't want them on your mind and so you show up at the meeting and you run for office but schools are coming and the messages to them may be coming too um what's your advice for other parents who are in that circumstance that's where i'm going to pick it up after i

squeeze in a quick commercial break uh more with brian after this and don't forget folks you are watching and listening to the Megyn Kelly Show. We are live every weekday at noon east on Sirius XM Triumph 111. Love our channel, 111 Triumph, right before my friend Dr. Laura. Love being neighbors with her. You can check out our full video show if you prefer to watch it at youtube.com slash megynkelly. Just go ahead and subscribe while you're there. And I also check out the comments there. So you can leave me a comment every once in a while. I go over there and I see what you guys are saying.

Or if you prefer an audio podcast, just go ahead and subscribe and download on Apple, Spotify, Pandora or Stitcher or wherever you get your podcasts for free. And then you can check out our full archives with more than 260 shows. All right, so Brian, let's just go through because I mean, you're ready to tear down some of these things that we hear all the time in that in that remarks at the school board meeting. And you know, for those I mean, I'm in New York City today, like the heart of New York City and the people here, they don't see the world as you see the world. The white liberals who run this city have a very different message.

And it does not include I live in America and opportunity is everywhere. It's about America is a racist country, that there are racists everywhere and that you are disadvantaged because you may be half white, but you don't have white privilege because your skin isn't white like theirs is. And they feel guilty about that. They want you to know they feel guilty about that. And they really want to tear down the country because it's been built on that privilege that that must be destroyed. So what do you say to people who think that way? What I say to them is, number one, don't believe the lies.

Believe your life you know you have I've been to New York and you have places like Brooklyn that are highly prosperous so if you just believe your life and your interactions with your neighbors and and commerce and you know you're going to the school sporting events just believe your life don't don't live your life and then watch the news and let someone tell you that your life is actually not your life. And I think that actually solves the problem because wherever you find people, you find imperfection. However, America is the greatest place on earth. If you're a minority, I mean, where are you going to find greater opportunity than in America? If you're a majority, where are you going to find greater opportunity than in America? If you're a majority, where are

you going to find greater opportunity than in America? This place has become what it is. We've all made it this way. And let's simply believe the life we live every day. But you're, you know, you come from North Carolina. This is a traditionally a Southern state. You're telling me you haven't bumped into some racists in your time and your 40 plus years bouncing around with your family state to state, like you must have run into people who treat you differently because of the color of your skin. Absolutely. It happens. It doesn't happen every day. It doesn't even happen every month. But I don't assume if someone doesn't like me, it's automatically because I'm Black.

Maybe they just don't like me. And I've met racists and encountered things. I'm like, ooh, that was a little odd. But that's all it was and encountered things. And I'm like, Ooh, that was a little odd, but that's all it was, was odd. Like I go live my life. You know, you live life with the people who say yes, not the people who say no, you know, your life is, is made up of the people who are your friends, not the people who aren't your friends. And that's, that's the way it goes. What about, um, what you were saying in your remarks about transgender swimmers and so on? Like, that is a big issue for a lot of parents who are too afraid to say anything about it. But that's why I think this Leah Thomas swimming and crushing all the women in these races is actually a good thing. I'm like, go understand it's hard for the women on her swim team to speak out. They're worried about getting jobs. Let them learn the lesson firsthand of what happens when you stay silent. This is what happens.

This is what happens. And Megan, that's actually, you know, that's why we homeschooled. You know, that's why I love school choice, because what occurred was I didn't know how to go to a school board. I didn't even know that existed, you know, as a younger man. So when they were bringing in the sex education and saying they wanted to talk to my kid, I'm like, how about you're not going to talk to my kid? And now I'm saying, oh, I'm going to. The common sense part. And I'm not telling anyone how they should feel. I'm saying how it needs to be for my child, my daughter. No dude is going to push around my daughter. I don't care what he thinks about himself. I'm not going to argue with how anyone feels about themselves, but I am absolutely, uh, vested in how my daughter is treated and the opportunity she has.

Right. And if we, if we don't speak up, this is what happens. I understand the position that these swimmers are in. They need to get jobs and so on. And the school has been totally against them and unsupportive of them. But when push comes to shove, there comes a point at which you have to fight. You must fight. Let the chips fall where they may. There are enough employers out there who would have empathy for these biological women speaking out about this cross, this transgender swimmer, that they will get a job. And ideally at a company that shares their values, which are just American values of fairness, of justice. That's why I like to see you speaking out because it's a good example of other people, for other people of how to do it. So for the people who are afraid, right, who are afraid they don't, they don't want to go to the school board meeting on CRT, on masking, on the inappropriate sex ed that's being, you know,

this isn't your normal sex ed. This is weird. Like let's teach and celebrate kink. Like no, how about no, as you said, what do you say to them? I say you get with parents. We have a local parent here who made a very big deal and got a lot done with the mask mandates. He actually is teaching me how to do this as far as getting active in the school board. His name is Kenny Wartman. And Kenny really led the charge against the mask mandate. So you get with each other. And this is what I mean by I'm saying parents are taking back the wheel. So they've overstepped their boundary because while they have their policies and their theories in application,

parents are standing up everywhere. And parents, your neighbor agrees with you. Your neighbor with a daughter, with a son agrees with you. Talk to them and then show up to the school board meeting, show up to the commissioner meetings and tell them you agree. We need laws in place, not just resolutions. There's no consequence on a local school board resolution. We need laws in place that carry consequences so that our children can be safe, so that they can have the future that we've envisioned. So not to pressure you, but why just at the North Carolina State Assembly, why aren't we going for something more federal so that you could make a difference on a national level? Go big. I'm trying to win 73. No, forget that. We

need you at a higher level. We need you outside of North Carolina too. I just think, you know, when you see somebody who's got the guts to speak out in the way that you have and isn't afraid to take the wheel, as you're saying, you could help a lot of people. Let me ask you this. What are you thinking about for the presidential race next time around? Do you have any idea who you'd like to see win? Well, I don't have an idea who I'd like to see win? Well, I don't have an idea who I like to see win. I do have a prediction that on my side of the conversation, we're probably going to see a DeSantis Nikki Haley ticket. Oh, could be. Could absolutely be.

I don't have a, you know, that's my prediction. I think that that's going to be what it is. Obviously, we have other guys who are fantastic, like Tim Scott and all that. But one thing is for certain, we're going to have this red wave wave and then we're going to take it straight into 24 so that we can breathe in America again and buy groceries. Right, right. Maybe go into our children's classrooms. Wouldn't that be a joy to actually see the classroom for ourself? I mean, you're going to have to fight for that, too, having homeschooled your children. You're going to be like, what the hell is going on?

Anyway, I love, you know, teaspoons in the ocean, but we'll take them bit by bit. We're turning these policies around and it's working. Brian, all the best to you. Thank you. Yeah, stay on it. I'll tell the audience at home that I did hear from a well-placed official over the holiday weekend. Keep your eyes on Glenn Youngkin. Maybe it's not going to be DeSantis. Maybe it's going to be Glenn Youngkin. What would you think of that? Call me later and we'll talk about it. Next up, Surgeon General of Florida.

Welcome back to The Megyn Kelly Show. Well, as you know, Florida has been a favorite target of the establishment media when it comes to COVID for some time now, largely thanks to its outspoken governor, Ron DeSantis, who has fought mask and of attention, and that is Dr. Joseph Latipo. He's Florida's Surgeon General, and he's also found himself in the crosshairs for backing these policies. While seeing massive success in the state, which the mainstream media will not cover, and he joins me now to talk all of it. Dr. Latipo, great to have you here. Thank you for being on. Oh, thank you. Thanks for having me. Oh, it's been fun to watch you. And I'm sure it's been interesting on your end to becoming the target of the national media. Once you start to say the things you're not

supposed to say, they don't tend to react very kindly to you. Have you experienced any of that? You know, every now and then people ask me that. And I think I've seen maybe two or three negative articles. But no, it's been a very rapid education into politics for a guy who came from a background of clinical research and taking care of patients. grow up being kind of nerdy. You don't get attacked. You just study a lot and get good grades. Right. Right. All right. So before you were down in Florida with DeSantis, you were in California and not just California. Were you in actual L.A.? Yeah. Yeah. We were in the belly of the beast, if you will. You know, we were, I was actually working in the hospital the week that the governor in March, 2020 shut down the state. So, you know, working in the hospital, we had our first COVID patients. I took care of some patients with COVID that week. And then we did what pretty much every other parent was doing, which was figuring out what to do with the kids now that, you know, they were kids, schools were, were shutting down also.

So definitely in the, in the belly of the beast and, you know, somehow they're still at it, you know, two years later, they're still at it in, uh, in Los Angeles. Well, and you were an early skeptic. I mean, if my information is correct, maybe as early as March of 2020, you were saying, closing the schools, not sure that makes a lot of sense. You know, the way we're sort of doing these knee-jerk lockdowns may not be the way forward. Yeah, that's exactly right, Megan. I mean, it was just fortuitous, you know, I think really God's blessing and plan that I was working in a hospital that week. So I had the firsthand experience of

taking care of patients with COVID with my medical team, who was, my team was terrified. And I remember, you know, we sat down, we looked at the data from Wuhan and looking at the data, it was very clear early on. I want to say this because we keep hearing people say things like, well, now we know that, you know, the masks aren't stopping Omicron. No, this, almost all of this information was very clear from, from early on that it was, it was, there was a specific population that was unfortunately at high risk and it was older people. So I had that experience of working my team. We looked at the data. Everyone was still really scared. Pretty much everyone on my team.

And after that week, I wrote an article. My wife and I talked about it. Everything that was happening, so much was changing, you know, if you remember back then. And, you know, I wrote about the and in the shutdowns and the lockdowns. But, yeah, no, it's and it's kind of obvious, you know, this stuff is, again, people are like saying, talking about how the lockdowns and the school shutdowns hurt kids. I mean, we've known that that that was exactly that's the only thing that could have happened. And we we've known that. I love you.

I read that you said something to the effect of my colleagues at UCLA went from, thanks so much, Joe, for providing us with another perspective to how can we make Joe stop writing? Stop it. You know, I mean, I wish I were like exaggerating, but that's exactly what happened. And, you know, you know, and I mean, I actually have a recording still of one of our division meetings and my department meetings where grown men and women who had MDs and other advanced degrees were talking about how to stop Joe from writing. I just, you can't, it's hard to, I don't even know how to wrap my head around that. What do you think explains it though? I mean, why did we get doctors like Jay Bhattacharya, you know, of the Great Barrington Declaration and Dr. Marty McCary at Johns Hopkins and you, and these really well-educated, well-credentialed, sane doctors

who can see very clearly what works and what doesn't. And they're not afraid to challenge the establishment line like a Dr. Fauci edict. But then we have so many in the medical establishment not only attacking doctors like you for speaking out, but totally going along with and towing the line on lies we've been told. Like, you know, yes, the little cloth mask is going to do something for you. Yeah, until Omicron came around, then it stopped working suddenly. Yeah, no, you know, Megan, I think I ponder the same question. And I don't, I think there's more happening than I can imagine. But one, at least one component of it is I think sort of buy-in politically, sort of people having difficulty separating their ideals or political ideals and perspectives from science and what science was saying. So I think that's at least part of it where there was such

a desire to believe that, you know, we're all in it together. And, you know, if we all just, you know, coordinate our behavior and do certain things, it'll work. And I think that just kind of got sort of wrapped up with, you know, what tends to be sort of a liberal perspective on life and politics in medicine and in science in general. And I think, you know, some people some people are recovering. Some people still haven't recovered. That's a component of it. But, you know, obviously, there was a Trump factor, too. I feel like certainly into the rise of Anthony Fauci is sort of this non-Trump, this other than Trump sort of leader. But I do feel like there's been a collapse of trust

in in public health officials and bodies as a result of this. Like I know no one's looking at the CDC or Anthony Fauci's group the same and probably never will until new leaders are in there. And there's been a complete ownership of what they've done to us. You're, I mean, you're, you're absolutely correct, Megan. Jay is a good friend of mine. Jay is a very good friend of mine. We, I knew him before the pandemic and we got closer during the pandemic and, you know, we've, we've talked about what you just said also. And it's, you know, there's just, they've really just completely sold their credibility. I mean, they, you know, some of these studies, I don't know if you know, there's just, they've really just completely sold their credibility. I mean, they, you know, some of these studies, I don't know if you know Dr. Vinay Prasad.

Yeah, he's great. But he had a great piece like a week ago about how the CDC has just, you know, sort of systematically misrepresented data to achieve an objective that was political. And you want to throw up when you see this stuff. It's just so gross. The Rochelle Walensky almost, it's like a robotic thing on the, yes, you must mask, the mask must stay on, the mask may not come off. The unwillingness to answer for the flaws in the in this so-called studies and surveys that she's been touting. Right. It's like we know those studies don't hold up. We know they're not worth the paper they're printed on.

And now she won't even speak to the mistakes she's made, to the errors she's she's lies she's told about. Oh, no, no, no. That study out of Arizona that proves that masks provide three times the protection that you get when you don't have a mask on. What do you make of her? You know, I am. So I trained at Harvard and she was there when I was there. She was she was senior to me while I was a graduate student. She was part of the Ph.D. program and the piece because she did in a way because she did a lot of HIV modeling and I was also doing mathematically mathematical modeling in the, in the PhD program.

So I was familiar with her work before, you know, I've never met her personally. I have, you know, no idea what, um, what makes her tick or what her motives are. I really have no idea. But yeah, it's been dastardly, the dishonesty and the scientific dishonesty that we've seen out of the CDC. You know, everyone knows, for example, like particularly with this mask obsession, everyone knows that in general, randomized clinical trials provide the highest quality evidence. So you have randomized clinical trials that basically show either no benefit of masking or this much benefit of masking. I mean, very little. And then, you know, they put out studies that show like a 70% reduction. I mean, give me a break. You know,

it's just, it's, it's, it's, it's laughable when it's sad. It's a joke. And not only that, I mean, I'm sorry to get personal, but what's with like the crying and the, I feel a sense of doom. I mean, you're a public health leader. What kind of behavior is that? Yeah, I know. You know, and this is, this is, you know, This is another piece, right? This fear that has been, literally, you study public health. Chapter one is that fear and coercion are not tools that are part of public health. Oh, wow. I didn't know that. They really are violating the playbook yeah this this it's like and now we see why right like you know mistrust right um uh conflict um that we're we're reaping the products of those tools and then of course just um just um a burden so you know you've still got young people who are afraid of contracting a virus that they probably have already contracted and recovered from. You've got people who've, you know, received three vaccines and still are

afraid to go outside and eat at a restaurant. And I witnessed it firsthand when I, with the young residents on my team, when I was first working in the hospital with COVID patients, who, you know, you look at the data and it's right there in front of you, you're young, your risk is extremely low, but they're terrified. It's just this, the whole approach, this fear, use of fear as a tool has just been a complete catastrophe and so harmful and will continue to be harmful for a while. Yeah, because we do need to trust them. That's the scary thing. It's not just like breaking up with an ex-boyfriend. You say, oh, okay, I learned something about him. I'm moving on.

We need to trust them. There'll be other situations in which their input is important. And just the overall undermining of messaging from our leaders. I mean, it's deeply troubling on a number of levels. So what about Fauci? I'd love to know your thoughts on him. I don't believe he's been honest about the origins of this virus. And he certainly misled us numerous times in the course of the pandemic. He's admitted that. But you talk to different people, you get a different answer.

He's a villain. You know, he's in the pocket of big pharma. He's about himself and his ego versus, no, he's well-meaning. He's a villain. You know, he's in the pocket of big pharma. He's about himself and his ego versus no, he's well-meaning. He's just made mistakes. You know, he, he, he sort of got over his skis. How, how would you, how do you see him? Well, you know, Dr. Fauci actually has a long history and, you know, and it's unknown to most, I think most physicians, and it was unknown to me before the pandemic until I started reading more and learning more because he was, he's been around for a while. And if you go back to the, you know, to,

to the HIV epidemic is particularly in the early period, you know, Fauci, Dr. Fauci had a pretty significant role during that time that, that is in some ways analogous to what he's been doing now. So one of the things that Dr. Fauci did, and, you know, this is sort of on record, you know, this is, these are, you know, things that, facts that can be verified, is that he basically, he has a history of sort of having drugs, particularly drugs that are under patent, that may or may not be particularly effective, but he promotes. Whereas drugs that may be effective, and in fact, often later prove to be effective, but are not under patent, are not, he doesn't promote and sort of- Like AZT.

Right. So in this case, you know, back early on in the HIV epidemic, you know, so one of the things that people were dying from is PCP. It's called something different now, but it's basically, pardon me, a pneumocystis pneumonia that people develop with HIV when their immune systems are compromised enough. And it's deadly. I mean, I've taken care of many patients with it. It's deadly. But at the same time, it has a very effective treatment that is cheap called Bactrim. So doctors in the community were having good. That's like, take that when you have a UTI.

Right, exactly, exactly. And it just turns out to be extremely effective for treating this infection. So doctors in the community were having a lot of seeing good outcomes from treating patients with HIV with Bactrim. But Dr. Fauci back then basically refused to support it. He said things like, you know, you need a double-blind randomized clinical trial. And I love those. But when you're in a crisis, you need to be able to look at the totality of evidence and make what the, make the best decisions for people who are, you know, who are counting on you to help them, not just stick to some arbitrary standard of, of, you know, this is how good the evidence

has been. I mean, it's probably reasonable to set the bar slightly lower when you're in a crisis. And he got in the way of, of people using this medication and recommending this medication. So we've, you know, so he, this is, he's, this is the kind of thing that he's done in the past, um, favoring drugs that are expensive and, and sort of pooh-poohing drugs that, you know, are cheap and maybe effective. And we're seeing it again here. I've never met the guy, but I can't say that I would trust what he, I can't say I would trust his advice or his assessment. Is he compromised?

I mean, does he have a financial stake in this? Like why? What would make him get only behind AZT and get only behind the vaccines? Right. I truly I mean, I don't know, Megan. I mean, I think, you know, I actually really appreciate Senator Paul and others who are willing to ask him questions. It's it's it's a shame that, you know, that people who are in the media in general don't ask him tougher questions. But we need to keep, I hope that people continue asking questions.

Me too. It's a great frustration of mine as a journalist that somebody won't put it to him. They're dying for ongoing access. King Fauci removes himself from your questioning if you ask him too many hard questions and he won't come back on. Maybe not your show, maybe not your network. So they're in a tough position, they think, because they think they need ongoing access. Whereas I'd much rather be in a position of having no access and being able to be honest with my audience about his lies. And really, I don't know if the word is corruption,

but he is definitely compromised in some way because he misleads a lot and it always goes in one direction. I don't think that people are listening to him anymore. I do think he's got to sort of his diehards on the left, but I think that in the polls show that the trust in Dr. Fauci, I was down in like the th 30s on a national basis now. Not surprising. Oh, good. The guy speaks out of both sides of his mouth, depending on what day of the week it is and what message is popular. So let's go through a few of the things that are still out there, and I'd love to get your professional opinion on whether we need to be doing any of them. For example, I'll give you my school district.

We're taking off the masks, thank God, finally, on March 1st, which is so unnecessary. My kids go to these big, these private schools in Connecticut. They have acres of land. They've been socially distanced. They don't have to get anywhere near one another. But still, we pretend like they're stuck in a Manhattan high rise, you know, on top of one another with the masks. OK, fine. We finally won that. I'll take the W. But there's still going to be plexiglass. There's still going to be social distancing. They still have to wear the masks during choir. I mean, you tell me, is any of that necessary? I mean, I think it depends on what your objective is, you know, so this is this is one of the problems with the pandemic. So you've got young

people, super low risk, right? And, and there's all this, I mean, it's absurd how much attention there's been put on that has been put on sort of protecting the very young, incredibly low risk versus where the attention really should be, which is older people and people who are more vulnerable. So, I mean, I think in a society where you're sort of trying to balance the overall experience for young people, for the children, the answer is absolutely not. It's completely silly to be doing all of those things, making them adhere to any restrictions whatsoever when they're low risk. I think people who are concerned, look, we've got vaccines available, you know, and, you know, if you're concerned, you can wear an N95 mask, you know, if you want to do that. I mean, I've warned them

taking care of patients. I can't do it for very long. Most doctors cannot, but, you know, if you if you want to do that, I mean, I've warned them taking care of patients. I can't do it for very long. Most doctors cannot. But but, you know, but, you know, there are options that people have. But, yeah, for young people, none of that makes any sense. And what about I mean, I've heard you say good things about the vaccines. People call you anti-vax because you're anti-mandate. This is what they do to try to discredit anybody who doesn't see the world just as Anthony Fauci does. But I've heard you say nice things about the vaccines. And before we talk about natural immunity, because I definitely want to get there,

can you speak to that? Because I definitely have a lot of audience members who don't, who will not really admit that the vaccines have any benefit at all. They're very skeptical about it. I mean, should they be skeptical about it? You're somebody they can hear as a straight shooter on this stuff. Are the vaccines a force for good and why? Oh, yeah, that's a loaded question, Megan. I mean, I think in some ways, you know, the, so there are a few things going on. So one thing that is, that I've learned during my career in medicine is that there's always more to know and to find out. So, you know, you remember, we've seen some of that already.

You remember, you know, you know, vaccines, they stop trans, you know, they, they, they, they, you know, you're not going to get COVID, you know, and, and, and then, and know, vaccines, they stop trends, you know, they, they, they, they, you know, you're not going to get COVID, you know, and, and, and then, and then, oh, you know, the breakthroughs are rare, but it was very obvious, in fact, you know, that they weren't rare. There were many people who were, you know, celebrities who were getting them. And then eventually the flood dams gave way there. And it was very obvious they weren't rare and that they weren't providing a lot of much protection at all from infection over time. So there's always more to know in medicine, in health care, in science. So what we do know is that they substantially you know, substantially reduce the risk of becoming severely ill from from COVID.

Same thing for same thing is true for natural immunity. OK, let me ask you a question. Let me ask you, how do we know that? Right. How do we know that? Because I have somebody who I love who is very vaccine skeptical. And what this person would say is, you know, you don't, you don't know that. Like what, what if those people in the hospital right now, you know, because of COVID, if they'd gotten the vaccine, you don't know that they wouldn't be in the same bed in the same situation. Okay. Yeah. So, I mean, I think from my perspective,

I totally get the distrust. Again, this is one of the products of using fear and coercion in public health is that it completely fuels distrust as it should. But, you know, from my assessment of sort of different studies from different research groups in different countries, they generally align on that, the reduction in the risk of hospitalization and death from COVID, specifically from COVID. So, you know, do I know it for a fact, you know, as well as I know anything else scientifically for a fact that I read in a journal. So, I mean, I do think that's the case. But again, I don't blame people for not trusting, not believing. Yeah, it's not their fault. They've been they have been misled.

Yeah, I'm with you. I mean, it's like the vaccine. I don't I don't know whether, you know, a covid case in somebody who's vaccinated would have been just as mild if they hadn't gotten the vaccine. But you can see the numbers on the hospitalizations. You know, the unvaccinated far, far, far outweigh those who are vaccinated and in the hospital. And so even for a layperson like me, I can read data. I can see that that's a troubling statistic for somebody who is both unvaccinated and doesn't have natural immunity. And that's where I want to pick it up after I do a quick break. Natural immunity, how it's been totally ignored to pick it up after I do a quick break. Natural immunity,

how it's been totally ignored and what it means for people who have it, right? Are they less likely to get another version of COVID right now? Or aren't they? Because we've seen people who have had COVID get it twice too. Stand by more with the one and only Dr. Joseph Latipo right after this.

He's going to stay with us and he's going to take your calls in just a minute too. So you're going to want to stay on the line and call us and let us know what you want to know about vaccines, about masks, about therapeutics. You've got an honest doctor here. Isn't it a joy? Who's going to answer some of those questions for you? 833-44-MEGAN, M-E-G-Y-N. That's 833-446-3496. Okay, so vaccines, we believe that they can prevent severe infection or hospitalization.

But what about natural immunity? First of all, have you had COVID? Megan, before I see anything else, I just, I got to do a shout out. So we have a, Weez Corey in my team is a huge fan of you. So she asked me to say, you know, to do a shout out. So we have a Weez Corey in my team is a huge fan of you. So she asked me to say, you know, to do a shout out for her. So what's her name? Weez Corey. Weez, my girl.

I look forward to meeting her in person. All right. All right. Okay. So, you know, have I, if I had COVID, so I've never tested positive for COVID, I might be immune from Delta, but not the other way around. But do you believe that that that natural immunity is as powerful as the vaccine and staving off covid less powerful or the same? It's comparable in terms of severe illness, which ultimately is kind of, you know, that's what we want to avoid. They're very comparable. You know, I mean, they're very comparable in terms of, and that's what the data show.

You know, there's data from Israel. There's data from the United States. I think there was a Cleveland Clinic study. The CDC finally came clean and published a study, you know, a few weeks ago that that showed that, you know, shockingly, natural immunity was was effective, very effective, comparable to the vaccines at preventing severe illness. It's just so obvious, right? It's like now that the politics have changed and they need to get off of this covid death train that they've been touting every turn. Now it's like, oh, let's take a look at natural immunity. That might be a very effective thing, too.

And this is you know, that's exactly the formula for completely blowing your credibility and and seeding distrust in the U.S. population. It's just I don't even know how these things happen. Honestly, I go between despair and crying almost, you know, I can't, you know, I can't understand it. All I can think is that we need to get, you know, another leader in there. And I don't care. It could be a Democrat, could be a Republican, but we need to get a new leader that will get rid of these two and anybody who enabled them, you know, Fauci and Rochelle Walensky and anybody who enabled them because they've they've done so much harm. People will die as a result of their dishonesty. They already have and they will continue to.

And let's talk for a minute about the vaccine injuries and the VAERS system, right? Because I get a lot of viewers and listeners who write in and say, you know, people are dying. They're dying from the vaccines. Go check the VAERS system. And I don't know if I should trust the VAERS system because it's just self-reported. You know, anybody could go on there and post anything. Nobody's checking it. As a journalist, that wouldn't exactly be your first choice for solid reporting. But what is,

where do we go to figure out how many vaccine injuries there have been and how severe they've been and how big a risk that is? Yeah, that's a great question, Megan. So, you know, the first problem is that there hasn't been any demonstrated interest in the CDC and our leadership in this country to even honestly investigate that, you know, these things happen. There's a gastroenterologist, for example, Los Angeles, who, you know, I got in touch with kind of, you know, I think she reached out to me early on in the, in the pandemic after the vaccines were released. And she's a gastroenterologist, right? You know, this is not someone who's denying science. And unfortunately, she developed debilitating symptoms, kind of neurologic symptoms and symptoms that, you know, that the NIH and I've seen email correspondence between between scientists at the NIH and individuals who have sort of had this syndrome of these kind of neurologic injuries after vaccination with the COVID-19 vaccines, who, you know, it's just like swept under the rug. It's sort of pushed behind the curtain, ignored. You know, we can't hear you. You know, we're not listening right now.

You know, and all because like none of that stuff can be true because, you know, everyone's got to, you know, just, you know, the vaccines are safe and effective. And that's the only, that's the only thing you can say. It's been very dishonest. These things happen. I think one good thing is that we're actually going to be seeing more research coming out. That's providing a more accurate, accurate assessment of the scope and depth of injuries. Where are we going to get that from? Well, fortunately, you know, as there are, you know, there are, you know, there are, they're the minority still, but there are honest, courageous scientists out there. And many of those

scientists have kind of banded together. We sort of have our informal network and I've been in touch with some of them. And, you know, these are scientists at universities around the country who have done research that they're, you know, that is literally there. It's like some of it is literally coming out very, very soon. And I'm going to ask my team to tweet it out, actually, some of the studies when they come out. Weas has got to send it to me. I want a heads up. And that's really just the beginning. I mean, you know, the thing, the thing about beers is that it is self-reported, as you said, but something that was known before COVID is that it's wildly underreported. So, you know, myocarditis, like there's a signal for that, um, that's higher, that's stronger in people who are young and male as other, you know, as has been acknowledged more widely. But that's like a fraction of the cases. Most doctors, in my experience, don't touch fears. They don't enter into anything in there, even when they see

issues come up after vaccination. Let me ask you about myocarditis and then I'm going to ask about boosters. Myocarditis, what you'll get from the Fauci crowd is you have a risk of myocarditis from COVID too. You know, your kid, get him vaccinated because yes, yes. Okay. I've got two boys. I've got two boys and a girl, but my boys are 12 and eight. And they said, well, they get them vaccinated, even though there's a risk of myocarditis because they could get that from COVID as well. Yeah, that's some weird thinking. And I've seen this, and it's been annoying because that's not how you make a decision. You don't say, oh, you should do this because you can get this condition. The question that you're interested in is what is in the best interest of the, you know, of this particular individual. So sure, you know, the vaccines, particularly in young people, particularly in young boys and adolescents, much higher rate of myocarditis. And it's not benign. I mean, I've got three boys, you know, as a dad, you know, I get worried if there's anything that is a potential health problem, I would be terrified

if my kids had myocarditis. And so, so that's, that's a real risk in terms of COVID. I mean, first of all, COVID is not the only virus that can cause people to develop myocarditis when they're kids. There are other viruses, such as, for example, the Coxsackie virus that can cause people to develop myocarditis when they're kids. There are other viruses such as, for example, the Coxsackie virus that can cause that. But the overall risk is what you're looking at, the overall risk associated with the decision. And by the way, many of these kids have already had COVID. Well, that's my problem. So all three of my kids have had COVID and they're not vaccinated. And I don't think they need to get vaccinated. They're little. They're 8, 10 and 12. They've had COVID. So why do I need to vaccinate them? Because, I mean, the schools are certainly telling me I must. And the arenas, if you want to go out for a sports game and so on here in the Northeast and many of these states, you must. I don't want to. And I really don't want to now that they've had it. So what, I mean, what do parents like me do? What are the considerations?

Well, look, this actually lets us round out the other, another piece of a question you asked earlier, which is that, you know, sort of about what we know about the vaccines. And I mentioned that in science, we always learn more. And I think I've got three boys, there's like no way I'm giving them a vaccine that is, that's been developed using a relatively new technology for this specific purpose. I mean, that's just ridiculous. You know, they're extremely low risk. And so the likelihood that they would even benefit even for its stated purpose related to COVID is you would you would have a very hard time demonstrating with any good data that they actually have a clinical benefit from it. So, you know, and we don't know what else there is to be known about the safety of the vaccines. That's just a fact. And we're going to learn more because that's just how it works in medicine. Right. Over time. Well, that's the problem, because since I don't believe I'm I have a database I can go to to see all the negative effects that

have happened from the vaccine. And there have been. There have been. I realize that we've had hundreds of millions of vaccines given and so on. And in the vast majority of cases, it appears to have gone very well and no side effects and people prevent serious disease. But in some portion, I can't say what portion, it's gone another way. And since I can't know because they won't be honest with me about these cases, it's disconcerting. I don't know what to do. I mean, I've had people on the show who've had serious vaccine injuries who said that basically they just like the CDC cut off contact with them even after verifying that they had a vaccine injury, which is they went dark on them and that they were kicked out of the clinical trial once they had a negative result.

So their negative result isn't even in the official data about the vaccine. It's just it's such a dishonest time for for science that, you know, it's it's just that much more important that people who care about truth never stop looking and asking questions. I mean, I've had I've had I've said publicly, I had the vaccine, I had the booster, but I am not prepared to say it had absolutely no negative effect on me. I don't know. I guess I have to wait like all these other hundreds of millions of people. I'm putting my trust in the same people who invented the vaccines are going to have to invent a cure if some large portion of us have something terrible happen to us, because that's just good business. Forget, you know, a lovely heart. You know, the people at Pfizer would like to stay in business and they would like to provide us with some curative product if they've screwed us up. Oh, I know. I mean, you know, it's it it's, I don't know, it's been such a tough, tough, tough, tough period of time. You know, and I certainly hope that, you know, that, that there's, there are no, you know, serious adverse events that we've learned about over time that, that, that are associated with them. But, you know, the truth is we don't know,

which is why it always made more sense to prioritize people who were at most at greatest risk. Right. Then it makes sense. What about though, I've read that you, you've asked about the boosters and whether there could be, um, uh, could they weaken your immune system? I mean, I have concerns about that too, right? It's like you take two shots, then you take a third shot, then you likely get COVID because Omicron was everywhere. So what does that do to you? That's a lot of messing with your immune system, potentially in a short amount of time. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's a fairly advanced area of study. You know, I've read things that, you know, some scientists, even in the New York Times, wrote that they quoted scientists that

raised concerns about potential harms from sort of overboosting, doing too many boosters. I mean, it's a legitimate concern. We're in uncharted, you know, waters. And for me, to me, it never made sense to just kind of continue doing boosters that just didn't seem like a, it just didn't seem healthy. You know, like what, what exactly are we doing here? You know, why, what are we doing? So, so why though, why, why wouldn't it be healthy? Like what, what could potentially happen to your immune system? So again, it's, it's a fairly specialized area, but what I've read from immunologists is that there is, um, concern that, um, that you might, that your sort of immune cells would, would sort of immune cells would sort of stop responding to the boosters. And then potentially that relates to their recognition of antigens of the virus itself. But it's kind of this, it's more,

it's not a science 101 question. So, and we can, I can kind of maybe get with my team and sort of maybe talk to some experts, but I'm not, I don't have enough experts. I appreciate that. That's, I appreciate your honesty, right? What's so lovely to have a doctor say, I don't know the answer to that. I'd have to research that. God bless you. Thank you for that. All right. So let's, one thing I know you know a fair amount about is this monoclonal antibodies. And, you know, that was a big thing in Florida. Florida was providing these things to people who got COVID. Actually, a member of our team had them and he's in Florida. And then suddenly the Trump, I mean, the Biden administration shut it down, including in Florida. They said it was because it doesn't help with Omicron. They said that there have been studies out there saying nice, maybe with Delta, but no, not with Omicron doesn't do anything.

So do you accept that? You know, so, you know, they made the decision. So certainly I accept that, you know, that we can't, we can't use it based on the fact that the EUA4 was revoked. I think they may be correct. And we looked at studies, we were aware of the studies that they cited, and they were laboratory studies. And from my perspective, you know, when you're in, this is, it's just kind of another example of poor judgment. So, you know, when you're in the surge and there is not wide availability of other treatments, and you're not certain that something doesn't work, a treatment doesn't work clinically, like no one was certain. And in fact, in some of

those studies, the laboratory studies, the authors wrote that, you know, sort of this finding in the lab needs to be confirmed in patients, you know, and that's, you know, that's just, that's how it is. Sometimes what you find in the lab doesn't work, you should allow doctors who think that a treatment may be effective to keep using it. I don't think that's very complicated. I think that's the correct decision from a public health perspective, especially if you care about doing the best you can for patients. And, you know, not surprisingly, unfortunately, they made a different decision. What about, where do you stand? Last I checked in with a doctor I trust on hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin, he said they have, that the studies were ongoing, that they were less positive on hydroxychloroquine and more positive on ivermectin, but he felt like we needed, you know, sort of the double blind, real big study and so on on ivermectin to continue playing out or to finish up. Where do you stand on those two? Hydroxychloroquine, I know a little bit more about. So what you basically had was a number of clinical trials, most of them which found a small benefit when used early in treatment, not late, not in the hospital, but early, that didn't reach statistical significance.

So that was a, there was a benefit, which is what you would expect to find if multiple studies are finding a small, but statistically insignificant benefit. That's not quite reaching the levels that we, you know, like to hang our hats on. So that, that's what, that's what we found. That's what the data showed. Um, ivermectin, I don't know it as well. Before we move on to ivermectin though, but there are downsides to hydroxychloroquine in terms of one's heart. Right. So this is, um, this is a very good example of, um, of, you know, the nice dance, the unpleasant dance between politics and science. So, you know, basically, this, the drug was sort of, you know, this campaign was initiated to make it appear to be this unsafe drug.

But in reality, compared to other drugs that we give patients, it's, it's, it's safety is comparable. Um, yeah, they use it for a lot of things already. Right. Right. And it's used in pregnant women. You know, how many drugs can you use in pregnant women? You know, the other thing is doc, you know, as well as I do, whatever drug they put you

on for whatever it is, it could be something mild and stupid. You go and you Google the side effects. You're going to be like, Oh my God, don't know. Nevermind. I won't take it. Right. So it's like you really, I mean, I'm not saying that's necessarily what they're doing with hydroxychloroquine. I don't know. I haven't done that research, but I do know that you could scare anyone with any drug in terms of side effects. I've done the research and that's exactly what happened. And then, you know, the sort of the playbook was, was dusted off for ivermectin. Another drug that, you know, I'm not sure we

have ongoing clinical trials. A study was just published in JAMA that the primary outcome was reduction in, in severe, severe illness. So interestingly, it didn't reduce severe illness, but the number of people who died in the ivermectin arm was lower than the number of people who died in the control arm. This was published in a leading medical journal. It reduced death is what you're saying. It was lower. It was lower. The difference wasn't statistically significant. But when you see something like that, what you want to then see is whether you're seeing the same pattern or a similar pattern in other studies. So, you know, so that drug, however, things shake out, whether it's found to be effective or not, it's like super safe. Like, you know, it's totally, it's a very safe. I mean, I would take it before I took ibuprofen. It has a, it has a safer, um, it has a better safety profile than ibuprofen, but then, you know, this campaign started again to like sort of smear this drug as being unsafe. And it's

completely insane, Megan. I mean, from a, from a doctor's perspective, if you're running around telling people that a drug like ivermectin or hydroxychloroquine is unsafe and scary, that's just not what the data show. That's politics. Well, and it's coupled with, in the very next lane of traffic, there's Fauci with vaccine, vaccine, vaccine to get your fifth booster. The vaccine, it's like, does the guy own stock in Pfizer and Moderna or what? Because he is a one trick pony. It's like, we get it. You want us to get jabbed and over and over again to the end of time, we got it. And for somebody like me, I'm like, I got three. That's all you get. I don't want more. I've done my part. I didn't even really want those three, to be perfectly honest with you. But I want to function in New York City. And you can't if you don't. Okay, stand by because our phone lines are lighting up. People want to talk to you, Doc. I can see why. And so Dr. Latipo is going to take your calls when we come back. What would you like to know about masks, vaccines, medicines? Call us now, 833-44-MEGAN, M-E-G-Y-N. That's 833-446-3496. We've got a couple of callers, Doc, so we're

going to kick it off with Holly in South Carolina. Hi, Holly, what's your question? Hey, so last January, I got pretty sick. I had two COVID tests four days apart. Got nothing. They were both negative. I went and had an antibody test, showed positive. Rehat, had another antibodies test in September. It showed that my antibodies were still 598. Got sick again in January, went and had my antibodies done after another negative test, and they exceed 2,500. My question is, is anybody keeping track of these antibodies? I mean, I've had two negative situations, and both times it's showing that I had it. Okay. What's the answer to that doc? Hey, well, the answer is that,

um, you know, first I'm glad you're doing, you're doing well now. Um, and, um, uh, I'm sorry that you had to deal with illness, but the answer is that, uh, is that Dr. Fauci has misled you. So this obsession with antibodies is, is completely, um completely misplaced. No one should go out and worry about checking antibodies. Basically, if you test positive and you have risk factors, you should get treatment. And your immune system is way more than antibodies. So your immune system includes B cells, T cells, and ultimately those cells are what prevent people from becoming seriously ill, not your antibody level. All right. It's been so refreshing. Thank you so much. Please come back.

Really appreciate it. And thanks to all of you for listening. And don't forget tomorrow, because we've got Mike Pompeo. Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.