The Megyn Kelly Show - SCOTUS Hears "Affirm Only" Therapy Arguments, AG Bondi Clashes with Dems over DOJ: AM Update 10/8

Episode Date: October 8, 2025

The Supreme Court takes up a First Amendment challenge to Colorado’s ban on “conversion therapy,” a case that could reshape how far states can go in regulating what therapists say to minors - we discuss with President and CEO of the Alliance Defending Freedom Kristen Waggoner. Attorney General Pam Bondi clashing with Senate Democrats over law-and-order policies, as Republican senators press her on reports the Biden FBI secretly obtained their phone records during the January 6 investigation. Cozy Earth: Luxury shouldn't be out of reach. Go to https://cozyearth.com/MEGYNfor up to 20% off. Riverbend Ranch: Visit https://riverbendranch.com/ | Use promo code MEGYN for $20 off your first order. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Good morning, everyone. I'm Megan Kelly. It's Wednesday, October 8th, 2025, and this is your AM update. It is a one-way ratchet that is designed to push kids down a radical path. Lots of kids are being harmed because they can't get the help they need. The Supreme Court taking up a challenge to Colorado's so-called conversion therapy law. We talked to one of the lawyers at the center of the case. I wish you love Chicago as much as you hate president. Trump. And currently, the National Guard are on the way to Chicago. And Attorney General Pam Bondi battling with Senate Democrats on law and order as Republican senators sound off on bombshell reporting that the Biden FBI secretly obtained their phone records in connection with its January 6th investigation. All that and more coming

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Colorado enacting the minor conversion therapy law, prohibiting mental health professionals from engaging in, quote, conversion therapy with patients under the age of 18. The law, which targets therapists, defines that as an effort, quote, to change an individual's sexual orientation or gender identity, including efforts to change behaviors or gender expressions, or to eliminate or reduce sexual or romantic attraction or feelings toward individuals of the same sex. Colorado therapist Kaylee Childs argues the ban amounts to a, quote, viewpoint-based speech restriction on counselors in violation of the First Amendment. If she were to counsel a patient suffering from gender dysphoria who wanted affirmation

of their transgender identity, that's totally permissible under the law. If Childs were to counsel a gender dysphoric patient who sought to grow comfortable with his or her natural body, it would be illegal. The Alliance Defending Freedom represents Childs in this case. We spoke with President and CEO, Kristen Wagoner, who says, says Colorado's definition of conversion therapy is far broader and more misleading than what the public has been led to believe. Colorado's description of conversion therapy is very misleading, and I think intentionally

so. It actually, in the statute itself, defines conversion therapy as including any practice that you engage in that helps a client lessen their behaviors or change their behaviors, their affections, their attractions. And so it includes just, simple conversations that we know the science says people benefit from. Kids need to be heard and be able to talk through things. And that is actually labeled as conversion therapy in this law. You can't lump things in that are different. And again, Kaylee's counseling is simply listening and talking as are, you know, a number of therapists that are out there trying to help these kids navigate this issue. Colorado has no problem with therapists to affirm a child's preferred gender

identity, but fans counseling that encourages the acceptance of biological reality. Colorado is saying, look, if you have a client that comes to you, a minor in this case, who's voluntarily wanting to be listened to and to talk to, and they say, I'm uncomfortable with my body, can you help me align my identity with my biological sex? Colorado says it has the power to censor those conversations and say, you can't even talk about that unless you help them transition to the. opposite sex. It's blatant viewpoint discrimination and violates the First Amendment. Wagoner says the one-sided restriction not only fails to protect children, it also can force them down an irreversible path that they

would likely have grown out of over time. It is a one-way ratchet that is designed to push kids down a radical path. And what the science tells us, and even what has uncontested in this case, is that 90% of kids who are allowed to just go through puberty, who are experiencing gender dysphoria, but they naturally grow comfortable with their bodies. But if instead you socially transition them, 97% of those kids will become lifelong medical patients and struggle with their biological sex for the rest of their lives. Not only does Colorado fail to prove that its law is necessary or that simply talking and listening to kids causes harm, but actually the evidence shows the obvious.

opposite. Lots of kids are being harmed because they can't get the help they need. Justice Neil Gorsuch, a conservative bringing up the issue of viewpoint discrimination, as did liberal justice Elena Kagan. Justice Kagan saying in normal circumstances if one therapist is allowed to help a patient except being gay, but another is barred from helping a patient change that. It sure sounds like viewpoint discrimination. Colorado Solicitor General Shannon Stevenson asserting speech in a medical setting between a doctor and a patient is different from free speech and can be more freely regulated. Justice Samuel Alito questioning Stevenson on the politicization of medical consensus. Had there been a case, I mean, the medical consensus is usually

very reasonable and it's very important. But have there been times when the medical consensus has been politicized, has been taken over by ideology? We have no facts about that in this case, but I wouldn't disagree that that's possible. And I think it's a really... Isn't it a fact that it's happened in the past? Was there a time when many medical professionals thought that certain people should not be permitted to procreate because they had low IQs? I don't know that, but I will accept the premise.

Was there a time when there were many... many medical professionals who thought that every child born with Down syndrome should be immediately put in an institution. I don't know that, Your Honor. Thank you. As usual, Justice Alito gets it. The so-called medical consensus in America on treating gender-confused children is affirm their delusion, no questions asked. This, despite systematic reviews, the gold standard, showing the benefits of this approach to be weak at best and more likely at risk of causing children serious harm. The UK, Sweden, Finland, Norway, and Denmark have all either banned or sharply curtailed the use of gender-affirming care for minors. The UK's well-respected CAS review,

finding that children were being fast-tracked to medical interventions without sufficient psychological assessments of their mental health. You know, the kind where therapists get to ask questions about what's really behind the child's distress. Despite all that, the alleged medical consensus in America is still to affirm the delusion and provide drugs and surgeries on minors. Standing alone in its effort to push back on this is the American College of Pediatricians, which issued this warning last year. We are calling on these medical organizations of the United States, including the American Academy of Pediatrics, the Endocrine Society, the Pediatric Endocrine Society, the American Medical Association, the American Psychological Association,

and the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry to follow the science and their European colleagues and immediately stop the promotion of social affirmation, puberty blockers, cross-sex hormones, and surgeries for children and adolescents who experience distress over their biological sex. here defying the claims made by these medical organizations in the U.S., that those of us who are concerned are a minority and that their protocols are consensus. They are not consensus, and we are speaking in a loud, unified voice, enough. Attorney Kristen Wagoner, who was present for yesterday's arguments, believes the High Court's decision will come down in her client's

favor. I'm very optimistic about how the court will rule in this case. I think that the court, it's likely going to be a vote that crosses, you know, potential ideological sides because the same standards of speech should be protected regardless of what side you're on on a particular issue. And the government has no business peering into the counseling room and censoring conversations. We would be thrilled with a ruling that says this law impinges on free speech, that it's restricting counselors and especially those who are seeking voluntarily to have these conversations as a violation of the First Amendment. While declining to predict the final vote, Wagoner believes there will be significant agreement among the justices.

Oftentimes, the court's most controversial decisions do come out in June, but oftentimes when there is significant agreement among the court, the decisions will come out sooner. And I think that's actually a possibility here. We'll have to wait and see. A decision is expected sometime next year, and it won't just affect Colorado. About 20 other states have similar laws on the books, meaning the decision could have nationwide implications. Coming up, Attorney General Pam Bondi goes toe to toe with Democrat senators on Capitol Hill as Republicans demand answers over a bombshell report that the Biden FBI secretly pulled their private phone records. I've been talking a lot about River Bend Ranch lately because I love their stakes.

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So order from Riverbendranch.com, use the promo code Megan to get 20 bucks off your first order. And let me know what you think. Riverbendranch.com promo code Megan. Attorney General Pam Bondi appearing before the Senate Judiciary Committee yesterday in a four and a half hour hearing exposing the deep partisan divide over. law and order in America. A.G. Bondi's opening statement highlighting the DOJ's recent successful state and federal partnerships

targeting high-crime cities. Our federal surges in Washington, D.C. and Memphis are a perfect example of how the Department of Justice should operate. We created strong partnerships with local leadership, working hand in hand with both cities to send resources where they were needed most. The results speak for themselves.

We have made more than 3,800 arrest here in Washington while seizing more than 365 illegal guns. In Memphis, we have already made more than 300 arrests and close to 80 illegal guns in just a week. We are replicating that tough on crime approach throughout this country. Under the leadership of Director Cash Patel, the FBI is doing outstanding investigative work to keep American people safe. The FBI just conducted months-long operation called Summer Heat, which resulted in over 8,600 arrests from June to September. More than 6,500 arrests fell under the FBI's violent crime and gang program. In both cities, the National Guard invited to provide additional support to federal agencies in D.C. by President Trump and in Memphis by Republican Governor of Tennessee, Bill Lee.

Recently in Portland and Chicago, President Trump deploying the National Guard, not by invitation from local authorities, but under his own federal powers to protect federal agents and property amid unrest. In Oregon and Illinois, Democrat leaders pushing back, filing lawsuits accusing the White House of overreach. The administration countering that it is stepping in where local law enforcement efforts have failed, exposing ICE agents and DHS facilities to great peril. A.G. Bondi challenging Illinois Senator Dick Durbin, a Democrat on the recent order, deploying hundreds of National Guard troops to Chicago. Were you consulted by the White House before they deployed National Guard troops to cities in the United States?

I am not going to discuss any internal conversations with the White House. The word is, and I think it's been confirmed by the White House, they are going to transfer Texas National Guard units to the state of Illinois. What's the rationale for that? Yeah, Chairman, as you shut down the government, you voted to shut down the government, and you're sitting here, our law enforcement officers aren't being paid. They're out there working to protect you. I wish you love Chicago as much as you hate President Trump.

And currently, the National Guard are on the way to Chicago. If you're not going to protect your citizens, President Trump will. Your city has a murder rate five times higher than New York's. 571 homicides last year. We're there to help make America safe and Illinois safe whether or not you want to. Former FBI director James Comey, also a focus of Democrats throughout this hearing. Last month, Comey indicted by the DOJ on two counts, lying to Congress and obstruction relating to 2020 congressional testimony about authorizing leaks. Democrats reacting to reacting to, to the charges, accusing President Trump of carrying out unprecedented retribution against political

enemies. Some have questioned, retribution for what exactly? What was it the feds did to Trump again that would have inspired his unprecedented move to indict his political enemies? Hmm. Democrats questioning A.G. Bondi, probing whether the prosecution of James Comey came at the direction of the White House. Here, Senators Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota and Chris Coons of Delaware. I know you have said that you will not discuss discussions you've had with the president about Comey. Is that correct? That you won't testify here about that? Because I was going to ask you if you received advice, instruction, or request from anyone at the White House to direct the department to engage in any investigations, prosecutorial actions, including decisions

not to investigate or prosecute anyone? I'm not going to discuss any conversations. The recent episode around the indictment of James Coney left me very concerned about the direction of the department. James Comy is a pending case right now. It's a pending indictment. He was indicted by one of the most liberal grand juries in the country. And it's a pending case.

So I'm not going to discuss the facts of a pending case. I don't remember these two questioning Biden, A.G. Merrick Garland, about whether he spoke to Joe Biden about indicting Donald Trump. Maybe Garland didn't have to. After all, Biden's push for him to do it was published in the New York Times in April 2022. James Comey set to be arraigned later today in Alexandria, Virginia. Several Republicans yesterday zeroing in on a new report from Just the News, revealing special counsel Jack Smith obtained the private phone records of eight, count them eight GOP senators and one House member in connection with his January 6th investigation. senators lindsay graham of south carolina josh holly of missouri and marcia blackburn of tennessee all targeted questioning a g bondie can you tell me why my phone records when i'm the

chairman of the judiciary committee were sought by the jack smith agents why did they ask to know who i called and what i was doing from january 4th to the 7th can you tell me that no senator and there were eight senators in total. Let's look at it. We've got a list. Tap my phone, tap Lindsey Graham's phone, tapped Marsha Blackburn's phone, tapped five other phones of United States senators. Gee, it sure looks like targeting political opponents to me.

We don't know what all they got. We don't know who all they tracked. But to tap our phones, to pull that data for these wireless companies to have allowed them to have that and for them to use it in their investigations. How disgusting. Ms. Bondi would not confirm or deny whether there is an active investigation into that discovery, but calling the matter one of great concern. Senator Blackburn, the weaponization against you and your colleagues should greatly concern all of us. It should concern Democrats. It should concern Republicans. Yet we don't see that.

there was a two-tier system of justice under the Biden administration. We're learning that every day. We saw Jack Smith weaponize the Justice Department against Donald Trump. We saw the Biden administration weaponize the entire Justice Department, all of the law enforcement agencies against Donald Trump, against his family members, against his friends for years and years. And that weaponization is over. No one is above the law, and there is a one-tier system of justice in this justice department.

And that'll do it for your AM update. I'm Megan Kelly. Join me back here for the Megan Kelly Show live on Sirius XM Triumph Channel 11 at New East on YouTube.com slash Megan Kelly and on all podcast platforms.