The Megyn Kelly Show - Sharon Osbourne on Her "The Talk" Exit and Marriage, and Adam Curry on Cancel Culture and Dave Chappelle | Ep. 179

Episode Date: October 12, 2021

Megyn Kelly is joined by Sharon Osbourne, legendary TV personality, to talk about her exit from "The Talk," what really happened behind-the-scenes, why she says CBS wanted to get rid of her, the trauma of her exit, her marriage to Ozzy Osbourne, her parents, the way the music industry has evolved over the past few decades. Plus, Adam Curry, former MTV VJ and "Podfather" host of the "No Agenda" podcast, to talk about cancel culture today, Dave Chappelle, the corporate interest in "wokeness" now, the podcast industry, Elon Musk moving Tesla to Texas, Bitcoin, and more.Follow The Megyn Kelly Show on all social platforms: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/MegynKellyTwitter: http://Twitter.com/MegynKellyShowInstagram: http://Instagram.com/MegynKellyShowFacebook: http://Facebook.com/MegynKellyShow Find out more information at: https://www.devilmaycaremedia.com/megynkellyshow

Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations. Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show. Coming up just a bit later, we're going to have a legend in the podcast world, Adam Curry. But we begin today with Sharon Osbourne, the one and only. This is her first long-form interview since leaving the CBS show The Talk, after her co-hosts and women she thought were her friends insinuated on air that she was a racist based on absolutely nothing. Of course, behind closed doors, they were saying something much different to her, and there is actually a tape to prove it.

We're going to get into that. But first, it all started when Sharon tweeted in defense of Piers Morgan, who was under fire for questioning Meghan Markle's claim to Oprah during that Meghan and Harry primetime tell all. You remember Meghan Markle claimed that she felt suicidal and no one in the royal family would help her. She said that the royal family, quote, had concerns over their son's skin color when she was still pregnant with little Archie. And Pierce said he did not believe a word of it. The next day, he was asked by his boss to apologize, and he refused on free speech grounds, saying he wasn't sorry. And by the way, his alleged controversial comments were later supported by the authorities in England who said he didn't cross any lines for

broadcasters over there. Piers quit rather than apologize. Well, Sharon and Piers went way back. They were friends. They'd co-hosted a show before. And she tweeted at Piers, quote, I'm with you. I stand by you. People forget that you're paid for your opinion and that you're just speaking your truth. By the next morning, it was Sharon Osbourne who was facing the firing squad on her very own show. Here's a sampling of what happened. And everybody has a right to say what they feel with freedom of speech. Did I like everything he said? Did I agree with what he said? No.

If he says, I don't see it as being racist or what she's going, I don't believe what she's going through. It's that white entitlement privilege that makes it racist upon itself. So if you're saying I stand with you, how do you address people who say that you are standing with racism? Not saying that you are. People feel that he's racist. People have receipts. I wish we had them today so that we could actually go deeper into this conversation so people could see why people feel that he's racist. When we kind of give passes or give space to people who are saying damaging, harmful things, what we're kind of doing is permissing it. And I think that's what people are reacting to.

And I think people believe that you're not racist. I don't think you're racist, just to say that super plainly. I don't think you're racist. But I think if people know you're not racist, they would want you to stand up to your friends. I don't think you're racist. But I think if people know you're not racist, they would want you to stand up to your friend. I stick up for my friends. If I ever needed him,

he would be there for me. And that's it. I feel even like I'm about to be put in the electric chair. I will ask you again, Cheryl. I've been asking you during the break.

I am asking you again. And don't try and cry because if anyone should be crying, it should be me. This is the situation. You tell me where you have heard him say, educate me. Tell me when you have heard him say racist things. Educate me. Tell me. It is not the exact words of racism.

It's the implication and the reaction to it. Not clarify anything for you. Immediately afterwards, Sharon said she felt blindsided by the questioning. The show went on a two-week hiatus. An internal investigation was launched. And a few days later, CBS released a statement claiming Sharon's behavior toward her co-host did not, quote, align with CBS's values. Sharon Osbourne was out after 11 seasons in the chair, one of the original co-hosts. But as we all know, there's always much more to the story. Sharon Osbourne is my guest now. Sharon, so happy to have you here.

And I apologize for beginning with what is probably traumatic to rewatch. It's just annoying to sort of be brought back to these events. I can speak to that firsthand. But now with the benefit of some hindsight, what do you think happened to you there? What were they doing? I honestly think this is a very complex situation. I think that CBS, I mean, you know, you just look at their ratings, have not been great. They got a coup by getting the Oprah, Meghan and Harry interview. And they put so much into it, the whole world was watching. It was kind of what they needed was the jewel in the crown.

And that's what it was for them at that time. And you just look at it business-wise for them. The network was failing and this was their big coup. And to them, it was like, it's untouchable. You cannot, cannot say anything against that interview, because it was the jewel in their crown. And because Piers Morgan was saying what he felt about it in a negative way, and I was standing behind them, I don't think they liked it at all because this was their coup. This was bringing them back, you know, from basically they were, you know,

they were number one for so many years and then it started to slide and this was bringing them back. And they didn't like the fact that I didn't go against Piers. And then, too, was a woman by the name of Amy Rosenbach is the show, is in charge of the show. And apparently she turned around to the producers and she said, I'd like some gentle. I'm trying to think of the word. I can't think of the exact words that she said because it was told to me by somebody else who was on that call. But they wanted some gentle disagreement. And at the time, I did have on my socials people complaining

that I shouldn't have supported peers and that made me look like a racist. But I don't think that anybody complained to the FCC. I don't think that I was out of order by dealing with it the way that I did, because I was talking to a friend of 11 years. I was talking to a woman that I've traveled with, that I've worked with, that I sat beside for 11. Well, it's actually she was there for 10 seasons. So for 10 seasons, I had sat next to this woman. She was a family friend. And then, boom, she puts me on the hot seat and talking about racism.

And she knows my history. She knows me. She knows I'm not a racist. This is Cheryl you're talking about. I'm talking about Cheryl. Yeah. Your co-host who we saw going at you. I'm sorry? That's your co-host who we saw going at you pretty good in that Cheryl Underwood. She was- Cheryl Underwood. Yes. She was the one sort of leading the charge against you. And at that time, Cheryl was very, very much a part of the movement.

And so she should be. So she should be for, you know, for rights for her people, for people of color. And she, she was very, um, what should I say? Um, she wanted more of these topics on the show. She wanted the show to be more political than it was. Do you think you, because you were accused by the LA Times of quote, tone policing her, you tone policed, you know, you're not allowed to say, I have no idea. But I think what they say is you shouldn't say educate me and you shouldn't

say don't cry. That is from, oh God, what is the book called? Is it White Fragility? White Fragility, Robin DiAngelo. That's what it's from. And they just read that book and took those lines out of that book. Now, everybody has their own opinion. And some people agree with that book. I have read that

book. In fact, Elaine gave it to me. And I agreed with some of it and a lot of it I didn't agree with. And I'm sorry, but I don't look at her as a woman of color. I look at her as a friend and a work colleague, a family friend that has been in my house so many times that has been there for me. And I've been there for her. And I was having a disagreement. You must have been shocked. I mean, I didn't actually realize that you were that close. So you must have been shocked when you sat down on the set that day after doing nothing other than sending out that tweet defending Pierce's right to have his own opinion. And so when we see Cheryl Underwood coming after you, and then Elaine Welterhoff was

the woman with the long ponytail we also saw coming after you on the set and nobody there defending you. It wasn't just business. It was personal. It was personal. And, um, Oh Lord. I mean, I just feel whatever I say is going to get twisted and somebody is going to hate it, but you know what? I can only talk the way I, the way I feel right now about the situation that happened to me. Okay. First of all, I'm going to take you back. At 7.30 that morning, March 10th, Cheryl Underwood sent me an emoji of, you know, love you.

It was the one where, you know, there's the little face with the kiss coming out of the side of the mouth now I'm looking at it going why did she send me this emoji at 7 30 whatever it was in the morning and I I didn't get it but anyway I didn't say anything I get anyway, I didn't say anything. I get to the studio. I'm always late. So I get to the studio at a quarter to 10. I bumped into her as I was going into the dressing room. And she said, there's been a lot of, you know, backlash on your social again, do you want to try and clear it up? We'll start the show with it a couple of minutes, just say what you feel. And I'm like, sure, I don't care. I'll do it. Eight minutes before we're going on air I get a call from her because remember we we're not seeing each other everything's on zoom and on phone with prepping for the show so I get a call from her and she says how do you feel about a couple of the ladies that disagree with you that maybe want to ask you

questions about peers? And I'm like, okay, all right. I'm a team player. Okay, fine. If that's what you want, fine. But my producer had, we all had a producer that would prep us for the show. Everyone had their own personal producer. So my producer and I had gone through the show. We were meant to talk about Selena Gomez. We were meant to talk about, would you believe, Pepe Le Pew being a rapist. Oh, boy. And how Dumbo and another Disney movie was going to be re-edited because it was racist.

At the beginning of the show, that's what was being promoted at the show. Right. Not Sharon responds to the social media backlash and the ladies give it to her. Yeah. So you walked into an ambush. That was a total ambush. The first part of the show is is like 10 minutes. The whole 10 minutes was on me and about racist. And Cheryl saying, I don't think you're racist. I don't think you are, which is a huge difference from I know you're not. Meanwhile, let's just keep reminding people, your alleged sin was just that tweet

saying, I support peers and his right to say, to give his opinion. That's why they hired him. This is insane. Already, this has gone so far off the rails. And when you looked at them and said repeatedly, I realize that educate me that we've heard that all through the Black Lives Matter movement. It's not my job to educate you, but you should know everything. But you weren't saying educate me on racism, educate. You were saying what specifically has he said that you think is that you're saying, give me the evidence against him and by implication, me for supporting him. And they couldn't do it. I watched the whole thing repeatedly. It was painful there. They couldn't do it, Sharon. They didn't have it.

No, they didn't have anything on him. Nothing. And in fact, Elaine asked them for evidence and they didn't have it. And she said to Heather Gray, just before she went on, you heard it on the tape. And she said, there's no evidence. We can't find anything. And so Elaine was not happy with the situation. Okay. But here's what's crazy. So Elaine nonetheless went on the show and did attack you. She was one of the ones piling on. She's the one with the long ponytail again, for people who don't watch the talk, which frankly is everyone. Um, no, no, you're gone especially. Okay. So, but Elaine was caught on tape after, after she piled on you on tape, admitting her heart wasn't in it. It was basically all for show. Here is part of that. Elaine Welterhoff. I just want you to know, Sharon, Cheryl loves you and respects you so much

and had your back behind the scenes. She was not trying to attack you. But I also understand when you've had a night long of trolls attacking you online, that puts you in a position where you're just like, you have to defend yourself. You feel like you have to defend yourself. And I know you're upset. I know it's terrible. But I just hope that once this blows over, once we, that you know Cheryl is your friend.

She really is your friend. I have said to Cheryl. I don't think you're racist. No one here, no one who knows you would ever say that or think that. But why couldn't she say, I've known you for 11 years. I know you are not racist instead of I don't think you are. No, I know you're not. instead of I don't think you are. No, I know you're not.

There's a huge difference. Here's the thing. I just want you to just know. Cheryl and I are held to a different standard by black people and people of color out there who expect us to say something about every racist anything similar and it puts us in such a f***ed up position that even if we don't have the information if we don't even really care if we don't really want to engage that it feels like a spotlight is on us you know and and so it's like i think that cheryl was trying to navigate that line you know what i and so it's like I think that Cheryl was trying to navigate that line. You know what I mean? Where she was like, this is my friend. I know you're not racist and I hear you, though.

I will take that to heart. You are right. Like you wanted to hear you are not a racist, Sharon. Yeah, we know that. Unbelievable. So do you think they were faking it on the show? No, I don't. And right after that, she was in my dressing room. She went to HR and complained about me. So talk about hypocritical. Her makeup artist and her hairdresser all went to HR and complained. Well, so which was the truth? The complaint that you're allegedly a racist and she can't work in this environment? Or what she said to you, which is, I know you're not a racist and Cheryl knows it too.

And there's just enormous pressure on us as Black women to say what people want to hear us say. I think it was her wanting to, she complained a lot. She did go to HR a lot, Elaine. She's just one of those people. That's who she is. She feels she wants her rights and she'll fight for it, which I kind of admired at the beginning. I don't know her well. You've got to remember, I only worked with her from January to March. So I really don't know her well. But just a hypocrite says one thing to me. She also asked me at the same time, um, business advice.

All in the same. She's talking to you in that dressing room. It, she seems sincere, you know, to me, I feel like the fake version must've been on the air because she says she's under pressure to do it. And when she speaks to you, she didn't sound like she was lying. So I don't, I don't know what's in her head, but that doesn't reflect well on any of those women. I don't know. I know that she's a bright young woman, very, very ambitious. I admire that within her, but she doesn't care about me. She doesn't think she did anything wrong, but she's a hypocrite because she sat and

said one thing to me and then went right to HR. And by the way, it was the show wasn't off the air for two weeks. It was off for over a month where they all had sensitivity training. Everyone. I mean, you tell me because Cheryl has come out and said, I'm trying to find the exact quote, but she said that in that exchange, you traumatized her, that you traumatized her, the way you treated her. She said that she suffered from PTSD. Do you believe that? Absolutely not.

You're talking about a woman that has served in the military. You're talking about a woman that started off as an erotic dancer. Then she joined the military. Then she did stand up and she worked her way up from every little comedy club in America and worked her way up to what she is today. And I think any woman that has that sort of background would not be traumatized by a woman saying to her, you shouldn't be crying, it's me that should be crying. And I don't think that traumatized her. She's changed her tune. Then she said it was the Lord was in her and her Lord was telling her to do this. So she, you know, and she also lied about, I didn't apologize, which I did. So it's all very confusing. Meanwhile, CBS stuck the knife in and twisted it and left you hanging out there to dry for all that time. Nobody came out to defend you on or off the, you know, without attribution in the papers. It was brutal.

Been there. And I wonder whether you think, you know, CBS would like us to believe that they are moral, that they are woke, that they don't tolerate bigotry, that they are on the side of the angels. Oh, give me a break. Oh my God, Megan, you know, you know, TV, you know how it works. You know, you have no friends. These people that run these networks, especially one that was failing, they are desperate to keep their jobs. They are desperate in these times we live in to be perceived as more than woke. You know, they want to be seen as Mother Teresa and

Jesus Christ. But they're all hypocrites. They're liars and they're hypocrites and they'll do whatever they have to do to keep their job. Is there one person at CBS that you think was behind this whole thing against you? Yeah. Amy Rosenbach, Reisenbach, her name is. And the two showrunners, Heather Gray and Kristen Matthews, who I'd worked with for, I'd worked with the showrunners for 11 years. They were friends of mine, especially Kristen Matthews. And I told them that they've destroyed me. I told them I will never be able to get over this. It's like, once you have that seed put on you that you are a racist, it never goes away.

Sadly, I told them they destroyed me. They and when I said that they left me out there to drive for the first part of the show for 10 minutes, there was a break in the break. There was no executive on the floor. Cheryl refused to look at me. Look, she would not look at me. She would not talk to me. And I kept saying to her, why are you doing this? Why?

Why do this to me? And she wouldn't talk to me. And I did swear at her. I did. Yeah. Well, of course you were upset. Of course. And the thing was, it's like, she, she's been at my side all for 10 years. And it's like, if you can't swear at a friend, yeah, I swore at her. So, um, I wonder though, like, what do you think the motivation was?

Right. They were upset about the Prince Harry. They didn't want Prince Harry and Meghan Markle's interview with Oprah to be criticized. But these specific women who came for you, I mean, you know, the people who have come for me in my past, I know why they did it. I can't always reveal it publicly, but I know 100 percent. I know. So what was it? I think that the show runners were doing what Amy had told them to do. Weak, weak women that didn't have a backbone to turn around and say, this is suicidal. We can't do this. And to let it go after the break.

So it was 20 minutes on national TV of bashing me. 20 minutes. It was. bashing me 20 minutes. It was, it was interminable. What about Pepe Le Pew? What about bloody, you know, all of that. They just hit me. It was, it was, they just, you know, it, it blindsided me, but the scene was, it was, you know, Cheryl, I think, thought she was Gayle King. She was hitting me up, not as a co-host and a friend.

She thought she was a journalist. And then you've got Elaine, who I don't know because I don't know her that well agreeing. And, you know, it was just a nightmare. But yeah, it was this woman, Amy, who I who I've met in my life, maybe three times. Wow. For the record, Piers Morgan, he called her out for being dishonest. Meghan Markle in that interview. It's now been proven that she was dishonest on several points. She lied on several points in that interview. That's come out. He has every right as a journalist, as a newsman, as a news commentator to say, I question her credibility.

He had very good reason to do so, irrespective of skin color. It's ridiculous to have to reduce everything to skin color. I don't think Pierce said anything racist. You didn't say anything racist. And what happened to you was disgusting and not without significant trauma in its aftermath. I want to move on from these ridiculous people because your life is so much richer and more interesting and layered than this one event. And I want to do that after the break. But before we pick up with the rest of Sharon Osbourne when we come back, I do want to spend a minute on the effect this had on you.

That's where we'll pick it up right after this quick, quick commercial break. Sharon, I know what it's like to be at the center of all these national news articles and people piling on and seeming to enjoy your struggle and people calling you terrible names and you sort of have to bite down and just bear it. But at some point, CBS comes to you in the midst of this trauma and says what? Because their public statement was Sharon has decided to leave the talk. Clearly, they forced you out. But what how did they how did they break that to you? How did they explain it? Okay. When all of this happened, I went to HR and said, I want an investigation. I want to know who decided to do this, why I was left out to dry for 20 minutes. I want to know why. And so they did do the investigation. But it was, as usual,

with corporations like this, did they speak to my producer that was prepping me that morning? No, she was never interviewed. Did they speak to people who were in the booth directing the show? No. So they spoke to a few people. Did they speak to the cameraman? Did they speak to people on the floor? What was going on during the break? No. So they selectively chose certain people to talk to. And it came back that I was very offensive, the way I treated Cheryl, the way my behavior. And so they said to me, you are on permanent suspension with no pay. And we don't know if we'll ever bring you back. And I said, well, what does that mean? Who is going to decide if I come back or not? And they wouldn't tell me.

And then HR said to me, we feel that you're not repentative enough. Where are you repenting? What are you doing? Your behavior around this is not appropriate for this situation. So I told them all what I felt about them all. I told them about some dirt that had gone on at the company that I knew about. And they were very afraid of me because I'm not afraid to say what I feel. And they just wanted me gone. Because when I started talking about things that had gone on on the show before, they got very, very nervous and just wanted me gone which i can understand like what i i said to them oh i'm sorry megan what did you say well like what what had gone on what was it that was

so scary to them um the way people were treated when leslie was at the show leslie moon vest um things that had gone down that I knew personally had gone on. Is there anything you can share with us? No. I wish I could. It will come out, though. It always does. It always comes out.

Right, Megan? Yeah. Well, hopefully, if there's a God in heaven. And so things about, okay, Cheryl. Cheryl had three complaints about, okay, Cheryl. Cheryl had three complaints about her from different producers and about the way she treated them. And so they called me and I said, you cannot get rid of Cheryl.

There is no way. She can't take that. You just can't do it. So they sent her to anger management. So it's all right to treat producers that way, but I can't say anything to a co-host. Well, and also when the chips were down, you had her back and she certainly did not have yours. No. And of course, when it came out that I was mouthing about Cheryl being at anger management because of the way she treated the staff, of course, they were all like panic, panic, panic. And listen, none of us are perfect. We all make mistakes. Everybody does.

Nobody's perfect. And I'm not saying that Cheryl was a terrible person because she treated producers the way she did. Hey, that's her problem, not mine. But when you bring up the truth, they don't like it. Well, right. And also then to then portray her as this delicate flower who could be traumatized by you out there saying, explain it to me. Right. What you were just asking for was what are the facts that he investigated by Ofcom, which is the equivalent of the FCC in England. Yep. Because Meghan went to the head of the network, ITV, and complained about Piers. Meghan Markle, yeah.

And so then they brought in Ofcom to do an investigation. The investigation went through every article he had ever written, every TV appearance he had ever done. And you're talking about a man with a massive, massive body of work behind him with all his writings and books and everything. They found nothing. Piers's problem is not that he is racist. Piers's problem is that he will attack anyone who he thinks is a bullshitter,

irrespective of race. And sadly, that is too rare in today's day and age. Well, it's not woke, is it? Not at all. And you're not and I'm not. And we've all gotten in trouble for it. I'm not. I am not.

And you know what? People who are, God bless you, have a great life. And if that's the way you feel, fine. But don't try and put it on me. I'm too old. I treat people with respect. I'm too old. I treat people with respect. I treat people with respect.

I come in on a good side. And then if you don't give respect to me, then I'll cut your balls off. But the thing is, I give people the benefit of the doubt. That's right. Well, that's right. I want to ask you about that later, because getting on your bad side could wind up with a Tiffany box in your inbox with some very unfortunate contents. But before we get to that, let me just ask you. So they come and you're like, I'm not going to live like that. So forget it. So it's over. Sorry for interrupting, Megan. But I said to HR, look, let's end it.

I want out. I am not going on suspension. I'm not waiting in Never Never Land. I want out. But let me come back. Let me sort this out. We need a proper mediator here. Let's sort this out, and then I'll go.

And I thought that it could have been somewhat groundbreaking. It would have been something very interesting for everybody to listen to. On air or off air? On air. On air. Okay. And they didn't want to do it? You must be joking. You must be nothing. Just get out. Gone. You have no rights here. Nothing. Nothing. doubting that, go read Sharon's autobiography, Extreme, 2005. Still, I think, number one, best selling, biggest selling autobiography since British records began. And it's an amazing book. So you're tough. You have been through a lot in your life. But cancel culture is vicious, and it's incredibly painful. And it involves not only public humiliation, but the breakdown of tons of relationships that are very close to you and around you that you didn't expect to lose in a moment's notice. And I would like to ask you how bad it got for you

personally. Oh, I don't want to seem a victim, Megan, but it was pretty damn tough. You know, you've got all the crazies coming out saying, we're going to cut your throat in the night. We're going to kill your whole family. We're going to even kill your dogs. I mean, the whole nine yards of constant, constant abuse. And then you get people like the LA times, you know, woke, woke, woke. And then you get people like Don Lemon, who I have adored. I absolutely adore Don Lemon

going on saying it was right that they got rid of me. Well, he doesn't know me. He doesn't know the situation, but it's, oh yeah, she must be off with a head off. He did the same thing to me. Sharon, he did the same thing to me. We were friends. I had written something about him nice in a paper in a magazine. He asked me to. We were collegial and liked one another. And as soon as I got in trouble at NBC, he stuck the knife in just as fast as he possibly could and turned it. I was stunned, stunned. Me too, because I'm thinking this man is a journalist.

Do a little bit of research. I mean, it's stunning. And then there was that guy that's got a really big podcast. What's his name? Joe Rogan. I've never met him in my life. Did he come after you? Sorry?

He came after you? Yeah, because he knew Cheryl because she was a stand-up, and I suppose they'd work together, and he said how funny she is. And Cheryl's funny. I mean, she can be. When Cheryl turns it on, she's the best. But he didn't know me. He didn't know the circumstances. People are so quick to tear you down, tear you down. I'm amazed Joe Rogan came for you. The number of people who have come for

him and he's had to withstand you know withstand withering criticism including accusations of racism you know he's there he's on tape using the n-word many times and some other controversial things i won't relive that i'm sure you'd appreciate me not going down the list um you know because people are mean and insane and they'll use anything you've ever said against you whatever i'll let him defend himself but for him to come for you, I'm shocked. I didn't know that. Yeah, I did. But it's people love to tear other people down.

And the thing that got me was how I work with women. I love women. I always protect women. But yet they tore me down. Yeah, like you're not human, like you have no emotions. And it really did have a lasting effect on Sharon Osbourne for a long time. I'm going to pick it up with her. Don't go away. Sharon, I had Lara Logan on the show a couple months ago. We had a great talk.

And one of the things I confessed to her was I seriously considered and my therapist offered antidepressants to me after my exit from NBC. I mean, it was it was extremely traumatic. And, you know, you see your career you've worked so hard for just completely implode and you just you can't quite understand what happened. And I wouldn't do it. And it's nothing against antidepressants. As my mom always says, better living through medicine. But I just couldn't do it in response to them. I wasn't going to let Andy Lack drive me to antidepressants. I just couldn't. I couldn't. Oh, my God. Andy Lack. I i worked with for a while you did i did because he used to run he ran c um sony sony music for a while oh that's right and was he a woke and gentle evolved

leader get out of here give Give me a break. I'm not allowed to say anything more. You can see it in my eyes. It's how our lives have gone like this. Megal's unbelievable. I know. Okay, but here's what I wanted to ask you, because one thing my therapist did not mention to me was ketamine treatments.

And I know people who have done those. But when I read that you had done those after your exit from the talk, I'm like, see, this is what people don't fucking get about cancel culture. It's awful. And they just look at you and I know you're rich and you're powerful and you've got a famous husband and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, but you're human. You're human. Oh, I, okay. First of all, CBS knew that I am a depressant, a manic depressant. They know that. They know that I've been on medication for 100 years.

They know that I tried to commit suicide. They know that I went into an institution. They know all of this, all of it. So they didn't care they didn't think about my mental state they didn't think about that i didn't fit within their what was it their whatever their bullshit pressure was yeah you know it's like they didn't think or maybe that you know we've got to go gently here look at her you know look at her history here mental her mental state they didn't care and the thing is because i come off bolshie and i say what I feel because I feel at my age and all my life experiences, I can. You've earned it.

Yeah, exactly. You've earned it. You earned the right. You earned the right. When you, and it's, it's like, they didn't, they didn't give a shit about me. They, they were scared of my mouth, things that I knew that I was going to, I would eventually talk about. Did any of the women call you after?

Yes, yes, yes. My God. Carrie Ann Inaba is an incredible human being. She's incredible. She's a great woman. She has been at my side. You know, she never went went back she went back for one day yeah i was gonna say she's no longer with them any of the others oh amanda amanda klutz yeah she's a sweet gal oh my god just you know she's like a ray of sunshine when she comes into a room a ray of sunshine just and you know what the crew uh it's always the crews are always great it's the it's the talent and the executives that are horrible oh my god the crew stood up for me the crew when they were doing all of this training that they had to do the sensitivity training they all stood up for me they said that this was wrong of course and for them to do Right. It's like they're the least powerful guys in the building.

So for them to do that takes balls and they they have them. All right. Well, let's let's move on from that unpleasantness because FCBS, you know, you've got bigger, bigger and better things ahead of you. I just didn't want to skip past how awful this stuff is, because I know it's like, ah, Sharon Osbourne went down to her life is better than mine. So I don't care. Well, what happens to Sharon or to me or to anybody is happening to Joe Schmo every day in this country. And so while we may be public examples of it, you have to understand there are people with a lot less riches around them that this happens to. And it's freaking devastating. And it's not something to be celebrated. We got to be kinder and find more grace and understand that people are human and do misstep,

though you did not. I mean, that's what's crazy. I continue to struggle to see what you did that was worthy of this kind of backlash. All right, let's move on because you are way more interesting than all this. You're 69 years old now. You've been married almost 40 years to Ozzy Osbourne, the Prince of Darkness. But as I studied up on you and Ozzy in preparation for this, I realized he's not really. He's actually quite a charmer.

He's sweet. He's a little goofy. What would you say? Describe Ozzy Osbourne in three words. It's so hard, Megan, because he's so multi-layered. He's like a bloody onion. You go through one layer and then there's another. He's soft. He's sensitive and loving. But barking mad. 39 years for the most incredible life together. The crazy, wonderful, and insane times. Yes,

pain and sorrow too, but we got through it. We worked so hard for years, professionally and personally. We succeed together. You are my soul, my life. What a fantastic life we've lived so far. The best thing is there's more to come. Every day is an adventure. Every day I love you more and respect you more. My soulmate, my love, my friend. Here's to our next adventure. Love you always, Sharon. Wow. Wow.

I know you've said that if you hadn't met Ozzy and fallen in love and married him, that you feel you would have died an early death. Why? Because I was always a depressant. I was always, I was untreated. I was a a depressant. I was untreated. I was a terrible depressant. I would always be thinking that really what's it all about? to love and feel is your soulmate, you know, it can be pretty damn tough. And I didn't date much. I, it just wasn't for me. I worked. That's all I did. Your whole life. I mean, you did not have it easy growing up in terms of your parents, which I definitely want to get into with you, but you met him when you were 18. He was married to somebody else. Is that why it took you 12 years to find each other, sort of get married and, you know, fall in love? And so charismatic and funny, so funny. And our paths kept crossing and crossing.

And, you know, one thing led to another when we started to work together. And it was he saved my life as much as I save kids. You were his manager, have been his manager, his virtually his entire career. We'll squeeze in a break, but I have one minute until we have to take it. Some of our guests, some of our listeners say, why do you have a hard break? Because that's serious. We have a hard break. So in just a few seconds or less, who was more responsible for his music success, him or you?

Him. Okay. What's the percentage, would you say? You know, without somebody that's talented and creates wonderful music, what is a manager going to do? It's easy when they create great music and are so charismatic and talented. It's easy. You're being self-deprecating because I know it's not easy. I've read your book.

Listen, there's so much more to go over with Sharon. We're going to pick it up right after this break with Life as an Osborne. And that's worth sticking around for. With me today, Sharon Osborne, who has hosted shows like the x-factor america's got talent her own talk show the osbornes hugely successful i did not realize that that mtv reality show which

started it all before there were the kadashians there were the osbornes highest ratings ever for mtv in the usa and in britain not to mention the talk for 11 years and so on and so forth. Oh, I forgot to mention Celebrity Apprentice, which would become relevant later. Okay, so you've done a lot. But going back before all of that, your childhood in England was very colorful with very colorful characters. Your dad, Don Arden, which is a name he made up. He was a music promoter, manager. He used you to hide money, act as a shield to some shady activity and to help with his business. And your mom was not exactly stellar. How did it happen that you, I guess when your mom died, you found out, you said,

what a shame and hung up the phone. Like, how does the relationship with your mom get to that point? Oh, it just, you know, my mom adored my brother and they had a very special bond and having a son now, I understand that bond. I totally understand it. I was more like my father and my brother was very much like my mom. My mom was a dancer. She was in variety, the same as my father was. She had been married. Her husband left her with two children. She had a very, and I never knew hardly any of this until

recently because I did a show and it goes in, what's the name of the show, Megan, that goes into your heritage? Who do you think you are? Oh, I don't know that one. It's called something else here, but they go back to your family history and they tell you all about, you know, your family from, you know, 100 years ago and they track everything in your family. Well, they tracked my mom. And when I heard about the things that my mom had gone through as a child, I understand so much mom's life was like before she met my dad and this, that, and the other. You just, you know, if you have an argument, it's like, oh, how dare you? This, that, the other. You don't sit down and think about maybe why did she say this?

Why did she do this? These are things you learn when you get older. And that's one of the gifts of getting older about understanding people. Yeah. I'm being told it's called Find Your Roots is the name of the show. Right. And so I did the English equivalent. And so they couldn't, they were going to do it on my father, but my father being a Russian Jew, and during the war there were so many papers destroyed, they couldn't do his background. So my mother was an Irish Catholic, and so they found everything on my mother,

and so we did my mom, and I learned so much of pain that she had gone through pain, suffering, rejection. And, you know, it changed the view on my mom. But at the time she died, I hadn't seen her for years. She'd never seen my children and we had no relationship at all. But my mom came from the generation of, I stick by my husband, not my children. And even though my father had always cheated on my mom and had a mistress for many, many years in Los Angeles. My mom lived in England and she knew this. She still stuck by him. And if he had an argument with me, she had an argument with me. She would take it on. She wouldn't say, well, that's with your dad. It's got nothing to do with me

because that was her generation. That's what women did. And you coming up behind him in the family business, I mean, you did spend a lot of time with him. You did a lot of stuff. I mean, you were successful in your own right before you ever met Ozzy. Yes, you managed his career, but you were managing a lot in the music business prior to meeting him. And as I read your autobiography and some of Ozzy's, um, I, I wanted to talk about it cause I saw a music business with drugs, extramarital affairs, absentee parenting. That's what Ozzy says about him himself. Dishonesty, double crossing. And I would, first of all, I thought reminds me of media. It sounds very familiar. I wonder so quickly,

which, which one of those is a dirtier business, media or rock and roll? Oh, media. Oh, terrible. Why am I not surprised? But I wonder how you think, because I feel like the Me Too movement and sort of this PC woke stuff, maybe rock and roll music is the one industry it hasn't really rained down upon. But you tell me as somebody who's had a front row seat to it, do you think how do you think the music business of like the 70s and the 80s compares to that of today in terms of debauchery

and drugs and all the rest of it? It doesn't. It was a whole different world, the 60s, the 70s, the 80s. And then the 90s, people became more sophisticated. There were more lawyers in the industry. And it kind of leveled out. But before that, it was like the wild, wild west. I mean, people, it was, you know, if you you wanted a record playing you'd go get the radio station guy coke a prostitute a gift fly him around the world and you'd get your record played wow it it was the everything was payola payola that's the way it was. And being a woman, you know, or I've got seats for the Super Bowl, dude, come on,

we're going to the Super Bowl. And they take the head of whatever TV show they wanted their artists on or, you know, the head of a radio station. And it was all payola. It was all gifting. And people, bands didn't have great lawyers. Everything was wrong, but yet it was sexy. It was exciting. It was, you know, you look at the people that came up in the industry

from those times, those are the true legends. Those are the legends, the people that have gone with the, you know, the Little Richards and Jerry Lee Lewis and Sam Cooke. These are the people, the foundation of the music that you hear today. Yeah. What do you think having been there you know been front row probably understates the experience you had in the in the music industry what was like what's the craziest thing you've seen backstage or at a concert oh my lord um Oh, my Lord. So many terrible, when you think about it now, but at the time you laugh, you, you know, you forget it in a second. You just forget it in a second, you know going to have sex with every crew member to get to somebody in the band and they're all of 16 years of age and they're following you across country and all things

like that you know it's just um but they were great creative innovative times musically. Nothing compares to the music that came then to what it is today. I know you've answered this a million times, but could you just set the record straight on the bat and the two doves? The bat was true. This is Ozzy.

Yeah, I mean, it all true. The rabies shots were true. Nightmare time. He bit the head off of a dead bat that somebody threw on stage. First, people said it was live, but it wasn't. It was dead, and he thought it was rubber, and he bit its head off, and then he had rabies shots. Right. And the Doves, it was a case of we were going, Ozzy was going to meet the American record company for the first time.

It was a favor that they signed him. They didn't really want him, but they signed him. It was a very cheap deal. And it was a kind of meet and greet for Ozzy and the record company. So they gathered everybody in the boardroom and we said, what can we do that they'll remember? So we said doves, doves of peace, beautiful. So he took two doves, had them in his pocket. And he was, you know, very merry at the time. It was the morning and he'd been drinking for several hours before he got there and he was in a very merry mood. And he sat on the knee of the girl that was the head of publicity for Epic Records. And she was all, hello, hello. And he went into the inside of his jacket pocket, had the dove and just bit its head off and threw it down.

Oh, my God. And, of course, it was like, oh my God. Then he got the other dove and just let it go in the room. But you have to remember that Ozzy and those days he used before he's, you know, he worked in a slaughterhouse for years. Yes, that's right. I did read that. That's right. That was the only job he could get, you know, he worked in a slaughterhouse for years. Yes, that's right. I did read that. That's right. That was the only job he could get, you know, no education, no nothing. And that was the only job that he could get. So for Ozzy to rip the head off a dove was nothing. But would he do that today?

Never in a million years, he won't even kill a fly. He is, but that's life. And that's how life changes you when you grow as a person. And he has grown so much as a person. He's still making music about to tour. I wondered what you thought, because I read, I think it was in your book, I'm getting the two confused, but when he was trying to find bandmates for his solo act after he left Black Sabbath, one of the comments was, well, you can't get like a bunch of 60 year olds, you know, you need somebody younger. And I thought, well, so what happens to the rock star, somebody like Ozzy, we've seen it with Rolling Stones and others, when you get older, how does an aging rock star handle getting older? It's tough. It's very, very tough. Very, very tough on them. But his audience have grown with

him. They've grown old with him, but he's managed to always remain relevant. So he gets a younger generation as each decade goes by. So he has his old fans and new fans, which is very few people can say. Well, that's what the Osbournes did for you guys. It brought him from sort of this, you know, whatever you want to call it, heavy metal or dark music into sort of mainstream celebrity status. Everybody saw him and saw a different side of him, saw him with in clips like you or somebody in the family was telling him to clean up after the dog who had pooped inside the house. And he was like, I'm a rock star. I don't want to clean up the dog shit. And there's those little moments. This just showed us who your family was.

And that's one of the reasons why it was so successful. Can I ask you about your kids? Because your, your book opened up with a story about your three kids. You have Jack and Kelly, who we all know from the Osbournes, but there's also Amy who decided not to be a part of the show. But you,

you write about how, oh my gosh, they're not there anymore. And as a mother of three children, this got me, you said, what I realized is they don't need me anymore. You say they lie and say they do, but I know they don't. And then you say, but I need them. Oh, took my breath away, Sharon. So how years later, because that was back in 2005, how years later has that settled? Like, how is that now? wonderful little girls. Everybody is, you know, they're adults, they're not kids, but they'll always be my kids. They will always, always be my kids. And, you know, I think I put in that book too, about how, because of the work that I was in, you know, I spend a lot of time away. and how that's one of my biggest

regrets. And I always, you know, people who are pregnant, I always say, try and take as much time as possible when they're young, because it goes too quick, too quick. And then they're adults and then they don't need you. And then they have their own lives and you know it's but I I think you know and I wish that I could have had just probably one week again with my mother and father to make amends to try and put things right which I never put right when they were alive. And I never want to be in that position with my kids. I always want to be the best that I can be for them. So now what? So Sharon Osbourne now 69, you've accomplished so much in your life. I've ticked off just a few of the many successes. I, for one, I'm glad you're off of the talk, which I didn't think was the smartest show and you are a smart

woman. So what, like now what, right? You can't, you're not going to go back into daytime talk, right? That's, yeah, that's not happening. That's not no place for somebody who's not woke. So now what? Or wants to play the game. It's for people that want to play the game and I don't want to play the game. It's I'm have. Been trying to do a movie on Aussie for years. And finally we've done it. We've signed to Sony pictures and it,

it is being written by now by a great British writer, Lee Hall. And it's going to be about the early years of our relationship. Good stuff. That is well worth watching and listening and reading about. So I can't recommend all I mean, like

getting to know the Osbournes, whether it's to the show or the books or whatever your choice is, listening to Ozzy's music is is so worth your time. They are so much more complex and rich and interesting than you even know. And Sharon, I just want to say again, you didn't deserve what happened to you. It's not the sum of your career. It's just a blip. It's a ridiculous nonsense consequence of this crazy cancel culture that we're living in. I think people see who you are and I'm so, so glad to meet you. And I want to say to you too, I thank you for supporting me. Oh, of course. Oh, of course. I hope we get to meet in person. I'm going to give you a hug.

Oh, I'm feeling it. I'm feeling hugged. Big hug. Sending you so much love, too. I hope we talk again. Very soon. Oh, what a doll. To you, too. Oh, my God. That was all I hoped it would be and more. If only the show were four hours. You want to hear something sweet?

She couldn't stay past the top of four hours. You want to hear something sweet? She couldn't stay past the top of the hour. We had known that in advance. And I just begged her to stay one extra block because I just had to learn more about her. And our guest, Adam Curry, has been such a gentleman waiting. He's next. And he's fascinating. He's co-host of the No Agenda podcast and one of the very first ever podcasters might be the first. So he's going to join us next on the state of the industry and some other interesting stuff. Stay tuned.

Adam Curry was one of the most recognizable faces on MTV in the 80s and 90s until he shifted gears in the early 2000s as one of the earliest adopters of the podcast medium. That is why they call him the Podfather. I love that. He was ahead of the game then, and he continues to be on where our media is headed on Bitcoin and things like that and more. He's a truly independent thinker and political independent. He's talked to anyone and everyone of cultural importance over the past several decades, and he is my guest now. Adam, thank you so much for being here. It's a pleasure to be here, Megan. It was really nice to be able to hear Sharon for a good hour there. I haven't seen her in over 30 years when we went to Moscow together.

Oh my gosh. She's so fascinating. We didn't even scratch the surface. It's like the rock and roll years, I've got so much more to do on that. And also, you know, knowing Sharon from then, 1988 for the Moscow Music Peace Festival and seeing her now, she looks better now than she did 30 years ago. And maybe it's that GenuCell stuff you're putting on her. Vash, honey.

She admits, you know, she, unlike the Kardashian, she admits what she's had done. I have to say, I appreciate that about her. You know, you don't want like the little girls at home thinking. I hate the fact that they're led to believe by anybody that those Kardashian boobs and bottoms are real. Hello, they're not. Okay. So let me get, there's so many.

There was also something else interesting, if you don't mind. No, no, not at all. There's a little bit. I think there's more to what's happened, what happened with her vortex that she's in with with CBS, because I think in America, certainly there's no end to how three hour show about the color of the child. I think that was an attack to get BLM, Black Lives Matter, some stuff started in the UK. And it did pay off. And I think that this is a tale of it. As Sharon said, that was their jewel. And they didn't really get enough juice out of it the first time with the interview. And I think this is just trying to follow on. Seems obvious to me. That seems absolutely possible because I will say I love when people

are like, Oprah, she got so much out of her. I'm like, are you people stupid? Do you understand Oprah Winfrey does not sit down for an interview without having a very top level producer sit down with the person she's going to be interviewing who gets all the news nuggets and then gives them to Oprah. And then Oprah's job as an actress, which she is, is to make it look organic. That's Meghan Markle. Right. These are two actresses putting on a show. The whole thing was choreographed.

Nothing there was organic. Absolutely not one thing. And the rest of us are supposed to be like, oh, what a beautiful, spontaneous. No, baloney. Baloney. Here's my bridge in Brooklyn. What I saw was Mo Fax and I, we saw black queen attack white queen that's what we saw wait who oh i get it no i'm up to speed yes exactly right exactly right without the courage to actually press for

real answers right she asked once like who and she didn't answer well then you got all those questions should have had follow-ups like well who was jealous of megan markle when she came back from australia who specifically made a face you know, can you tell us the person who alleged the objective to skin color? That's why they don't ask you to do these things, Meghan. That's obvious. Can I tell you, Adam, so I tweeted out something like this that night saying like, why didn't Oprah say, well, was it the queen? Can you rule out the queen? Can you rule out Prince Philip who's dying right now as the alleged racist? Something to press her. Guess what they said

to me you're a racist for criticizing oprah okay well yeah exactly but but that but you know we're in this in this world right now where you can get americans are very very nice in our hearts you know the worst thing you can do is call an america even though sharon's not american but i consider her american enough you call us a racist that's. That's like, that's so deep. That's so traumatizing. And the shameless profiting on these scenarios by mainly mainstream media and the political establishment is really beyond the pale at this point. So, and it's such an incredibly powerful lever. You know, the cancel culture, it is literally using advertisers, abusing the fact that advertisers want to be brand safe, and whether it's on social media or anywhere else, to get you kicked off because of the money. And that's all that it's about. But it has a deeper

underlying current, I'm afraid. And that's really to control everything. And if you can control... Are you familiar with ESG, environmental social governance? This is a real big thing on Wall Street right now. So everyone has to have an ESG. The activist corporations, the socially activist. You get points for being woke. You get points for displaying Black Lives Matter. You get points for your greenness and you're uninvestable. If you don't, oh yeah. And you're uninvestable if you don't have these elements and you don't hit the score,

which is completely put together by BlackRock themselves. You know, they got all their little NGOs they put together. So now it behooves everybody to speak woke, to speak green, because that's how the investments flow, whether they believe it or not. And I never, the business of America is business. And I don't think they have any shame. Corporations probably shouldn't really. They should be completely just going after the money. But they are really, on one hand, hurting themselves to help this control, because you can make anyone

do anything you want if you have those three elements. Well, I think you're right. In the case of Sharon Osbourne, and I could name some other cases too, in which race has been weaponized. It gets weaponized against a target. We've seen the same in the Me Too movement. It's what happened to Brett Kavanaugh. And it totally undermines the legitimate claims. But that brings me to something that's in the news today, which is Dave Chappelle. What's happening to him is very interesting, right? He does these massively

successful series of shows for Netflix, like 20 million bucks a show he's getting, I think. And the sixth and I believe finals now coming out. And he does a bit saying he's with JK Rowling on the whole trans thing and you know, what what a woman is, what a woman isn't, and so on. And now there's been some pushback inside of Netflix with a trans activist and a couple of other people actually trying to storm some meeting of Netflix executives, and they promptly got suspended. And I said, good for you, Netflix. And Netflix is refusing to pull it. So, so far, Netflix is showing a real spine, but it's become yet another cultural moment yeah you saw it i i presume uh i watched it uh i couldn't wait for it to drop i watched it and every review i've read or

yeah i think just about every single one i've read that was negative um usually somewhere three quarters the way through it uh the uh the reviewer will write well i had to turn it off at that point i just i couldn't stand it anymore i had to turn it off so i i don't think you can yeah it's a gq magazine uh a gay black man that wrote it literally wrote that you know it's like oh i just couldn't i had to turn it off and this and suck but i think that if anyone is capable of watching the entire special at near the end the whole that was truly to me the closer where he talks about and I haven't seen this spoken about anywhere in any of the reviews, where he talks about a comedian, a trans woman who became his friend and in a very odd and very public way. And they were good friends for years. And he asserts that she killed herself due to the incredible outrage and pressure from trans women and allies.

That's not discussed in the reviews because that was his point. He's like, we all need to go easy on this. Let's all back off for a second. And instead of focusing on typical, you know, we don't focus on the content of the character. We focus on the color of your skin, what's between your legs, and how you describe them. So that's all I'm seeing. And it's very, very,

I think years we'll look back and we'll go, look at this piece of crap that someone wrote. Didn't even watch the series, did the special. Well, it's so crazy because Dave Chappelle, like people pick whatever it is

that they're going to either genuinely be outraged about or present faux outrage. But the Sticks and Stones special was a piece of brilliance, right? And he touched on every third rail there was to touch on. He was saying he doesn't believe the Michael Jackson accusers. I could do a whole show on that, by the way, because there are definitely holes in the stories of the two accusers.

Right. I'm not defending Michael Jackson as overall, but I'm telling you, there are major problems with the backstories of those two accusers. I'm defending him Michael Jackson overall, but I'm telling you there are major problems with the backstories of those two accusers. I'm defending him. He was asexual. Believe me. Well, we can get into it

because I actually went in all my spare time, Adam. This is what I do with my spare time. I went, I pulled the court files on Woody Allen at one point. I went, I pulled the court files on Michael Jackson at one point.

And I will tell you that one guy, the guy who was the choreographer, he had so many problems in his history. This guy was under he was filing a lawsuit against the Jackson estate. They said, you ever write a book on Michael Jackson? He said, nope. They said, let's just call around a random house and everybody else and make sure that's not true. Sure enough, he had submitted something. Then he was told by the court, if you have drafts of that, including metadata on your computer, computer, turn it over. He lied. They got their hands on a computer. They found all sorts of metadata. He had tried to change it before he turned over. I'm just saying lots of lies in that guy's history in dealing with courts. So you tell me whether he tell the truth to a documentary maker. It wasn't a documentary. You should do a podcast about this. I should. I should. But I like to touch the third rails too.

What everybody neglects is Michael Jackson owned one of the largest music catalogs, much to the chagrin of Sony, CBS, Columbia, much to the chagrin of Paul McCartney. Even it was part of his songs. And Michael Jackson owned that. And they tried to get it back in that way. And I personally believe he was killed for it. Wow. Wow. What do you mean killed by Conrad Murray? The actual method is not is not that important. But of course, he was I mean, Conrad Murray was actually convicted of, you know, of manslaughter, I think, wasn't that because he did kill him. That's the doctor who kept giving him the what's the drug? Propofol that knocks you out. Propofol. Yeah.

But anyway, and I said this, of course, MSNBC called me. It was the last time I was ever on MSNBC. And they said, well, you know, the day he died. Well, I said, well, has anyone questioned whether he was murdered? And they hung up on me. And that was the last I ever spoke of that publicly. All right. So my point back to Chappelle, he said he doesn't believe the Jackson accusers.

He said in that documentary, he made fun, not made fun, but sort of made jokes about school shootings, school shootings. So he'll touch anything. And that's what people love about him. He touches the untouchable, the things you could never laugh about.

He somehow helps you find a way. That's what we love in our comedians and always have, except now. Except now, right, where he's got to be canceled. I have to say props to Netflix, right? Like they're one of the only companies who just gave the middle finger to the activists saying, protest all you want. It stands. Yeah. And I don't think that they care one way or the other. They care about money. This is great for Netflix. I'm not going to say, oh, oh, boy, oh, they're so great now. They've done a lot of not so great things. There's many comedians who cannot get a special on Netflix because they're not Dave Chappelle. They are good, but they use certain words that are not acceptable. And that's predefined.

And so it's just- Have they been weak? Has Netflix been one of the weak, woke warriors? Of course. Of course. Yeah. Okay. So I take back my props, but I'm glad they stood by Dave Chappelle because I want to see the specials. I want it to be ongoing, right? It's like, all right, enough of that. Let's talk about Matthew McConaughey and whether he has any real chance of running for or winning as governor of Texas because he comes out now and says, I'll do it if needed. To me, it's interesting because Governor Greg Abbott should be a conservative's dream. I mean, he's done so much down there that they should love, but they don't really seem to be totally in love with him. Because Greg Abbott has an opinion and what Texans want, I've been here

for 11 years, Texans just want someone, it's not a hard job. You can be governor, I can be governor. You have some minor requirements. Matthew can be governor. Just follow the Constitution of the United States and follow the Constitution of the state of Texas. That's all that it is. And so when we and I'll say we when we have an issue at the border, Governor Abbott should have followed the Texas state constitution and I think arguably the U.S. constitution and should be defending the border. That's just one small thing. There's many other things. The lockdown was very traumatizing for Texans, for everybody, of course, but that was something very new. And there are multiple cities and municipalities who are now claiming

that they are a sanctuary city for business and never again will the federal government or the state of Texas even shut down their businesses for any reason other than the decisions they make themselves. So could Matthew do it? What about McConaughey came out and said he he was talking to Kara Swisher, who's you know, she's definitely left. I heard it. And I heard it on Sway. And he said, listen, I'd love it. I hate listening to to Kara Swisher. I. I love her, I have to say. She's one of those people whose politics I don't share at all, but I love the woman herself. She's so spalsey. She's just tough as nails, and I like that.

She asked him about mask mandates, and he supports them. I'm like, well, there goes your Texas gubernatorial career. Yeah, I think so, too. What is happening in Texas, just my view view of it is the democrats are really really smart they've done some incredibly smart things here and i'm not i still haven't figured out exactly how but the uh the abortion uh law that went into effect this is far beyond what i think most texans would really care about they're like in general in general, I think Texas is like, you know, whatever. Personally, I have issues about, you know, the age of an unborn child when you're going to abort that. But they somehow that this law got put into place. And I think everybody says, well,

you know, come on, man, a heartbeat, that could be just a few weeks. And that's really, you know, you're pushing it here. I think that's moderate. Moderates would agree with that. And they're going to use this. This is the whole idea. Then bringing in Matthew, that's that's part of their strategy. Do I think it'll work? No, absolutely not. Good try. And I think he's a great actor. I think he's a good guy. And and again, he could do it. All he has to do is just follow, follow the scripts, you know, follow the Constitution. Anybody can do that. And so far, Governor Abbott has not really shown that any. And also during the the Snowmageddon that we had, we were out without power for four or five days. It was quite a shocker to be in Texas and looking for a snow shovel and winding up with a trowel.

But he's not been honest about what really happened. And I'm concerned about that. You know, this is this was more like Enron in California turning power off than it was about our crappy grid or the windmills froze. Yeah, all contributed to the problem. But it was, again, purely about money. And he knows it. Urquhart is a scam, a sham. And he's appointing new people. We'll see what happens. But it's it's I don't personally think he's that great. Now, he's not that popular. And you know, look, I'm up here. I'm a Yankee, you know, so I don't know. But I just know what I

read in the papers. Although half my team is in Texas. They're backing you up on the things you're saying in my ear, by the way. Let's talk about Elon Musk. He's moving from California. He's doing sort of, he's pulling a, not exactly, he's pulling a Joe Rogan, right? He's leaving California and going to Austin, where you are, I think. Taking Tesla, sort of nearby, and taking Tesla with him. So what does this say and mean and do?

I don't think it's going to change Gavin Newsom's worldview, but your thoughts? Well, first, I was in Austin for 11 years. And Tina, my wife and I, we left Austin before the summer to reenter the state of Texas. Before that happened, though, I had actually, I am responsible for bringing Joe to Austin. He was thinking about Dallas to know, man, you totally belong here. And I think he's a great asset to, uh, to Austin. Austin is not weird enough for me anymore with, uh, it's not just a Tesla, but we also have Oracle, we have Google, we have Facebook. And for me personally, I'm 57. So, um, I've, I don't need to be sitting in Joe's Cafe having a grilled cheese and hear a couple of guys talk about their SPACs behind me. I'm done with that.

I'm not interested. And when it comes to Elon, who I also know, we shared investors back in the early days of podcasting, and I was at the launch of the first Tesla. He's the Kim Kardashian of tech. He's a really good pitchman. He's not insincere, but is he the genius that is doing all this? No, no. Elon Musk is a, oh no.

His SpaceX is an extension of Space Force, his expansion of NASA. These are big government contracts. I don't think that he's not that impressive to me. Seems like a nice guy. Very quiet when I met him. But yeah, he's he's a he's a bit of a Barnum guy. You know, he's he pitches stuff and he shakes it up when he has to and is very good at it. And he has a momager. Just look at his mom who's been there his whole career. Yeah, I'm just but that's that's kind of the comparison I make. And that's not bad. I think Kim Kardashian's fine, too. You know, I enjoyed her on SNL. I especially enjoyed her joke about her having 50 million people following her and only 10 million viewers, which turned out to be only 4 million viewers. Yeah, right. I thought that was pretty funny. She's more popular on social media.

They wish SNL that they could get her social media following. No kidding. I interviewed all the Kardashians. That's what they went for, obviously. And they were all sitting there at once, Adam, like all of them. And I just didn't even know where to look. It was like beauty, beauty, beauty. Everybody, Kendall, the model,

she had a skirt on that was, it looked more like a belt. It was so tiny. And I could see basically her ass. And all I could think was, why can't I have that? And then I thought, oh, I like eating too much. Look at you, one of the most beautiful women in media. And you're saying that no, no, no, no, no. Thank you for saying that. But I'm telling you that this hasn't looked like that down south in Rio on me ever. OK, so that so that's Elon. Can I ask you about Bitcoin? I confess I don't know much about it. I had one show I had Eric Bowling on. He explained it to me a little and he said, buy it. And then he said it was going to cost me $50,000. And I said, really? But I know you're big on it. And I can you give us like the Bitcoin 101, your thoughts of Bitcoin, Bitcoin 101. And so in a way that everybody can understand

what we're talking about, because now more and more seems like people are getting behind it, including the like our government seems to be favoring it. Not so much the Chinese, but you tell me whether this is a good investment and why. OK, so it's impossible to explain Bitcoin one on one. People have to do their own work to understand all the ins and outs of it. And that's mainly because our Western central banking reserve fractional reserve banking system is very complex, hard to understand, and is completely corrupt. So what is happening is, well, here's a simple example. In the 70s, you might remember the Jump for Toyota commercial. That was, and the truck at the time cost $5,000. So now look at where we are. The truck from Toyota

costs 10 times that much, it's 50,000. That's inflation. And that happens for a whole bunch of reasons, but it's accelerating and it's been happening on a much larger scale, certainly since 2009, where the dollar is literally becoming worth less than it was. And that makes your salary, you know, you're buying your purchasing power less on an ongoing basis. At the same time, housing costs expand or explode, et cetera. So there's a group of older millennials, 28, 29, who I work with mostly now because we're doing streaming Bitcoin for podcasting so people can get paid in real time. Oh yeah. I want to get you on that. These people were born in the early nineties. They were born in the Gulf War. I know my daughter is now 31. You know, she was in her little cradle there sitting watching, you know, Baghdad, Bob and everything happening. And then, of course, we had 9-11. Well, if you're 8, 9, 10 years old, that's super, super traumatizing. But don't worry about it. We're going to go invade the wrong country. So they went through all of that. Well, everything's going to be fine,

people. It's going to be good. And we've got a new president coming in and we're going to fix everything. And then we had the Great Depression since or the Great Recession since the Great Depression. And we're going to fix all that. And we printed up a bunch of money and did a bunch of things and we didn't fix it. And now we this group of uh young people coming out of college 15 dollar an hour jobs if they're lucky a hundred thousand dollars in debt no future and oh by the way their peers are telling them they're going to die in 11 years from climate change so they are opting out of this system and they're doing that with bitcoin they're doing it with Bitcoin and they are creating an entire financial system that does not require banks. In fact, you are your own bank.

It is financial sovereignty. It is not blockable, bannable, turn offable, any of the things they're saying. And so governments have a choice. Either they fight it and go down and lose their currency with it. Now, the dollar is a big one, so that's not going to be that easy. But you have smaller ones who are already crushed by the banking system, such as El Salvador, who just made Bitcoin an official currency. And Brazil is rumored about it. So the technology behind Bitcoin makes it so that mathematically, if you put in one dollar into Bitcoin and you don't have to buy 50,000, you can buy one dollar's worth of Bitcoin anywhere. You don't have to buy a whole Bitcoin. You can buy little pieces of it.

Mathematically, that will be worth much more in five to 10 years from now. That's just mathematically true because that's how the protocol was built. So instead of a Federal Reserve raising and lowering interest rates, it's built into Bitcoin and it can only go one way. It's a deflationary currency because it's limited in supply. When you can't print anymore, that's it. So we're seeing, I think, sadly, we're being helped by George Soros because, you know, he's the guy that brought down the pound, literally shorted the pound, almost broke the Bank of England. I think his coup de grace, his cherry on top will be to break the U.S. dollar. And I think he actually may be behind a lot of the some of the purchasing of Bitcoin that's happening right now.

And they certainly have said they are accumulating. But the good thing is, even if he can help break America, the dollar or whatever, which, you know, that may not happen in my lifetime, but it could. All fiat currencies have gone away throughout history. He won't be the only one. He won't be the richest guy. There'll be lots of other people. My wife and I have Bitcoin. You can have Bitcoin and everybody can have some and be on that same level. And there's no no financial controls from the government, the way the Treasury and the Federal Reserve exert on the American people, which they've done. And they just say, shut up. It's just temporary inflation. Fascinating. Might be. I've never seen it go down like, you know,

after something like this. It's a great it's a great two two Fascinating. Might be. I've never seen it go down like, you know, after something like this. It's a great two-minute pitch. I want to just clarify what I said. JPMorgan Chase is backing it, saying cryptocurrency is a better hedge than gold. So far, with our federal government, they haven't done much, but they're weighing a regulatory crypto crackdown, according to reports, weighing it. Listen, Adam. Crypto is not Bitcoin. Not exactly the same.

Oh, well, we'll pick that. It says Bitcoin, Ethereum, Cardano, whatever. That might be included in the executive order. All right. Longer, sorry. We got to pick this up because I need more time with you. I needed more time with Sharon. I need more time on the show.

I need four hours. I got to start the show earlier. But this was so great. I love meeting you. Thank you for coming on. My pleasure. And I look forward to coming back and laying some real podcasting 2.0 smack on you. Yes.

Yes. Let's not say goodbye. Let's say to be continued. To be continued. In the meantime, download The Megyn Kelly Show on Apple, Pandora, Spotify, and Stitcher. Got a great show for you tomorrow, too. See you then.