The Megyn Kelly Show - Speaking Freely and Kaepernick Truth, with Michele Tafoya, Plus Hillary Spying on Trump, with Victor Davis Hanson | Ep. 261

Episode Date: February 14, 2022

Megyn Kelly is joined by Michele Tafoya, former NBC NFL sideline reporter, for an exclusive interview as she leaves NBC after the Super Bowl, on her career in sports, what she's doing next as she begins to speak freely on her political positions and her love of America, her support for GOP Minnesota governor candidate Kendall Qualls, her famous appearance on The View, what Tafoya knows about Colin Kaepernick's attempt to get back into the NFL, maskless celebrities and politicians at the Super Bowl, the importance of family, and more. Then Victor Davis Hanson of the Hoover Institution joins to discuss the latest revelations about the Durham investigation, Trump's claims about Russia and spying versus what we know now, the truth about our "elites," the rise in crime (particularly against Asian women) in America, and more.Follow The Megyn Kelly Show on all social platforms: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/MegynKellyTwitter: http://Twitter.com/MegynKellyShowInstagram: http://Instagram.com/MegynKellyShowFacebook: http://Facebook.com/MegynKellyShow Find out more information at: https://www.devilmaycaremedia.com/megynkellyshow

Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations. Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show and happy Monday. It's Valentine's Day, so happy Valentine's Day. Sadly, as we know, there's still no love lost, however, between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump. And there is a just a stunning, stunning new court filing laying out how special prosecutor John Durham believes that the Clinton campaign spied, spied on Trump both before and after he became president. I mean, specifically saying that they managed to hack into his computer in the executive office of the president. OK, if if that's true, someone's going to jail, someone other than the lawyer who right now they're allegedly getting this information from. This is enormous. We don't know whether it's true, though. So we're not going to be a Rachel Maddow and assume it is. She's gone the other way on Russia the whole time. We'll tell you what is being alleged when

one of our favorite people, Victor Davis Hanson, joins us in our next hour. But first, we begin with an exclusive interview today as one of the best in the business calls it a day after the Super Bowl. Michelle Tafoya is widely regarded as the top sideline reporter in all of sports. She recently made waves discussing off the field topics. You may know her if you're not a sports fan from when she appeared on The View a couple of months ago. And it was it was wonderful. It was like, wait, who is that voice of reason over there who is incredibly smart, armed with facts, not afraid of these other women, especially on dicey issues like race, the NFL, Colin Kaepernick. She was battling the co-hosts over everything from COVID to critical race theory. And for those who do not know Michelle, there's just a tiny bit of that. Why are we even teaching that the color of the skin matters? Because to me, what matters is your character and your values. Yes, but you know, you live in the United States. You know

that color of skin has been mattering to people. Can't we change it that it doesn't? Well, we need white people to step up and do that. But I think that they've been doing that since the Civil War. And I'm not saying it's perfect. No, no, no, they haven't. What do you mean they haven't? They have, listen, when you have a country or a state, let's talk about a state where somebody can be hung from a tree and it's okay. That's not okay. Well, it was okay. It was okay in the South. People did it all the time. And no one's disputing that happened all those years ago. Anyway, Michelle was amazing. She's had an incredible career and now she's starting a new chapter and has yet to reveal what it is. Michelle, thank you so much for being here. Oh my goodness. It is my pleasure. Thank you

for having me. Oh, I'm honored. I'm honored. Everything I've read about you, everything, I'm like, I love this woman. This woman and I are going to be friends. Honestly, you're so sensible and you are ready to back up your opinions and you're not like a bomb thrower, but you're like, this is how I feel. Too bad if you don't like it. This is how I roll. And weirdly, because I like to think about myself that way, Michelle, but I don't think if I were to retire from a career, let's say at NBC or elsewhere, that everybody, every single person would be saying such nice and laudatory things the way they have about everyone loves you. Well, not all those women on The View and certainly not their audience. The women were great, but their audience did not love me. So

it's not like I'm universally loved because I don't share their opinions. But it is crazy to me. I think people that know me, they get me. And it obviously takes a little while for the rest of the world to get to know you. So that's what I hope to do here now. Yes. Okay. So this is the thing. I mean, it's been a big mystery. Why would she be leaving?

It's not like you're struggling to make it as a sports reporter. All the Emmys and all the awards and like, I mean, the list of accolades you've received is really impressive. Plus just the beloved, you know, your beloved Al Michaels last night, I think was going to shed a tear that it was your last night, Chris Collinsworth, they all adore you. So but you've been saying you, you want to do something that exercises other muscles. I can relate to this. This happened at my career. What does that look like? Well, there are a couple things that are starting right this minute. I am the co-chair now of the Kendall Qualls for Governor campaign in Minnesota, where I've lived for 25 plus years. And I've been asked to run for governor, much. So I want to devote some time to my family, certainly my husband included. But I am willing to step up for this gentleman, Kendall Falls, and say,

we need a change in leadership. We need sensible, reasonable people. And it's just, I got to tell you, I wake up every single morning, every morning, and there is a tug at my chest. And that tug is telling you, Michelle, you have to help. Somehow you've got to help. And I can't do that in this role as a sideline reporter. This has been a phenomenal career. I've loved every minute of it, almost, except for the freezing cold temperatures in Lambeau Field in December. But other than that, I've loved it. But there is so much work to be done. And I'm sitting around fretting about it and thinking about it constantly. And one thing I've learned is that you can't fret and think and complain unless you're really willing to do something about it. Otherwise, you got to let it go. And I'm not ready to let it go.

I'm really concerned about the future of this country. I love this country. I'm not ashamed to say it. My family's story is the American dream, both my mom and my dad and me. And I love it. And I know it's there for everyone. And I'm tired of people trying to tell other people that it's a farce or that it's not real or here's why you can't succeed instead of telling people why you can succeed. And so I just I can't keep it to myself anymore. And I feel like I need to be a voice. Yes. Right now is not a good time to be on the sidelines for someone like you. Right. That's exactly what it feels like. And the only way I can describe it to you,

and I have a feeling you'll understand this, is like I wake up and something's pulling at my chest, at my heart, at my guts, at my soul, like it's a palpable feel. Go help. And I just couldn't ignore that anymore. I couldn't ignore it. And so whether it's a run in the future or not, I am going to stand behind people and with people. And I am going to let my voice be heard, which is just something that you can't do when you're a very public, silent reporter on a sports slash entertainment show that is supposed to just make people happy. And NBC was great about saying, look, go, you know, say the things you want to say, be careful. And I don't want to be careful

anymore. I don't, I did not have that experience with NBC. That's interesting. I'm glad you had that direction. Yeah, a little bit different situation. Well, you note that, I mean, there was a lot I could not that they asked me not to do. I was asked to start a podcast a year or so ago. And they said, you know, can you just hold off? So it wasn't like I was given total freedom. And I do understand that. And it's what I signed up for. So I couldn't complain. And I just waited for the right time. And this seemed everything came together right now with the Super Bowl and everything happening. And I just said, this is the time. Honest question. Do you think that if you were a liberal who privately was espousing more progressive values, they would have let you do the podcast? That's a great question. I don't know. I will say this. Bob Costas, my former colleague at NBC

Sports, is that person, is more liberal, and did some halftime essays during Sunday Night Football over the years that drew some ire from some of our fans. And I think what fairly NBC wanted to avoid was taking off their fans of the sport, of the game, of this opportunity to escape that stuff. But that was a different day. What's that? That was a different day. I remember that. Well, didn't he write some dicey piece on the second amendment or something about guns? But since then, you know, since the woke-ification of ESPN and NBC and all these, you know, sports in general, I just wonder whether they would be saying, you know, if you wanted to go out there and be like BLM and, you know, trans swimmers should swim and all that stuff. I just can't imagine them silencing you. I don't know. I never experienced it because I never tried. But I also don't know really anyone at NBC Sports with that agenda who has been unleashed. I think, you know, I just don't. But maybe I wasn't paying attention. but I do know I felt supported.

They let me go speak to police groups. They let me speak on behalf of candidates in small settings. They didn't love the view and that appearance. You revealed that you were a conservative, basically, kind of conservative at least. But they know that about me. Right, I know, but the public didn't necessarily.'s different when you yeah yeah that's right that's right well and that's the thing so like i i i've told the story before but one time i was talking to my therapist and uh it was shortly after i i left mbc and i had just like launched instagram and

i don't know how many followers i have on instagram you know i really just post dog photos on there. And occasionally if I do something fun, I'll put something up there. But I didn't have very many followers. And literally at that moment, Jennifer Aniston had posted one photo and gotten like eight million followers in a day. I'm like, my God, it's incredible. And I was like, well, I think we've established I'm no jennifer aniston and i remember my it was a joke but my therapist was laughing because he's like you talk about the most divisive issues in america for a living he's like she does silly comedies with people who are literally called friends you know so i get i

get the hesitance you know the hesitancy about putting you out there with your political opinion. I wish more news organizations would do that. I wish more sports organizations would say that. But it does seem to be especially dicey in the in the eyes of a lot of these execs if you're a conservative because they know instantly you're going to alienate the entire left. The left will not tolerate a conservative newscaster. The tolerant left will not tolerate conservatives. And that's just something that I've learned the hard way. And it's very frustrating. But I think, see, to me, you talk about issues, but you are not a divisive character. You're not a divisive human. So to me, I'd much rather, God love Jennifer Aniston, I'd follow you over her any day if I had to make a choice.

No, that's God's honest truth because you're smart. You know, look, we talk about things that matter. And that's what scares me right now is that not enough people are talking about things that matter. And if you know, I'm amazed at just people that I talk to now and then how little they know about what's going on in the world in this country, the things that really should be affecting them and opening their eyes, and it's not happening. And you go, it must be that the message isn't getting presented the right way or by the right people. And so I guess I hope I'm not thinking too highly of myself, but I do think of myself as sane and someone who maybe can help convey the message. Yes. You're a great communicator. I mean,

I've watched you enough. No, you're great at it. And that's why you've done so well when the chips are down in like clutch moments. When I remember the one I'm not a sports person, but that when the one coach collapsed on the field during the halftime, that made national news and you handled it so beautifully. You didn't know what was going on. It had a stroke, I think. But anyway, that's you're a great communicator. So sometimes we get wrapped up in our world of politics and think everybody's paying attention. And what you're saying is kind of a good reminder that a lot of people aren't. And the fabric of the country is being eroded bit by bit.

And you're right in the heartland. I mean, at some point we have to talk about how a California girl got sucked into Minnesota. I believe it was love. It must have been deep, true love. But that's a pretty blue state. So do you think you can get through to people out there? which is everybody else. And I think that outstate is primarily red country. And I think that we're seeing more of it move into the metro because look, we were right at the heart of the defund movement. We were right at the heart of that. The George Floyd thing happened right in my backyard.

And now initially there was that moment, but now people are seeing carjackings. They're getting scared. They're not feeling as safe in the state of Minnesota as they used to feel. And I think that's really hitting home. So I like to think that we have a lot of persuadables. I, you know, fingers crossed. And does this mean no more broadcasting? Are you going to do the pot?

Now you should do the podcast. Now you got you got to do something to keep your voice out there. Yeah, that's that's the goal is to launch something here. And there are many irons in the fire. And I'm grateful for this opportunity, because it lets me continue to get that message out that that's what I do want to do that I want my voice to be out there. Um, I, I, and it's purely out of, I remember someone sat me down once and said, there are three reasons people run for office. Number one, they want power. Number one, they want popularity, uh, or number two, they want popularity or number three, they really want to serve. And I said, well, for me, it's, I really want to serve. I I'm a, I'm a huge believer in the power of what this country is built on. And I'm terrified

for my kids and their kids and yours and everybody else's that, as you put it, the fabric's going to get torn apart to a point where we're not recognizable anymore. And I believe there are enough people to save it, but also people are being silenced or afraid to speak out. The number of friends I have that say, I don't want to talk politics. I don't want to say that. I am afraid to say this on Facebook. Fear to speak, fear to express yourself, that's as un-American as it gets, and I'm going to fight it every step of the way. I love that. I love that. I can relate to this so fully. I was on the couch for a long time after I left NBC, first licking wounds and then just being like, I don't know what I want to do. I really don't want to go back and work for the man. I don't want to get myself in the same situation

where I have some prick boss. I've done that. And then the whole world exploded between COVID and then George Floyd happened in May of 2020. And I was like, I got to get back out there. I the lies that are being told about our country, about us, about like, we've got to push back. And it was for me to the thing that in my own way got me off the sidelines. Thank goodness. I mean, your voice is so important. And I can't tell you how many people were excited that I was coming to talk to you. Honestly, I'm so, so thrilled that you're partaking in this because we do need that pushback. We absolutely do. There are a lot of people who are afraid right now and that ah just breaks my heart and i'm just not one of them i'm not what do i have to see i mean you know i i don't fear it throw me in there i'll take your barbs i'll take whatever i'll go on the view and take that audience booing me um i'll do it because somewhere maybe i can affect one one person person. That's, that's a start, you know? Um, so yeah, wherever I am, wherever I land, uh, whether it's in my, the, the, um, principal's office at my kid's school,

because I think they're being taught something that I don't agree with. I'm going to be there. And now I have the time and the freedom to do that. I love it. I want to see more of it. I want to hear more of it. I'm just looking for it. Yes. Okay. We have a little bit of you on The View because I love this moment. You're battling about Colin Kaepernick. And unlike the ladies of The View, you actually knew what you were talking about. Like they messed with the wrong person. They're used to having some shill on there. It was like, well, I don't believe in kneeling. And you were like, you know, whatever. You were whatever you were like let's go i've got my facts and here's just a little bit of that this is sat five but the white owners have prevented him from doing it they've colluded from and and they have the power to they have the they have all the power to prevent him from doing the one thing that he loves if they believe he could win them a super bowl he would be on a team right now i promise you that i promise you that i think and he lost everything because of the sand that he took and there is no owner in the nfl to this day

that has the courage to take him back a lot of a lot of teams have tried him out i will tell you that i know my stuff too on this a lot of teams have tried him out. I will tell you that. I know my stuff too on this. A lot of teams have tried him out and he didn't lose everything. In fact, I would say he's gained a whole lot. He is now a leader of a movement. He's got a Netflix series. He's got Nike endorsements. He lost the one thing he wants to do. Well, you know, I don't get to do what I want to do either. And sometimes life just ain't fair. I think we can all all of us can agree that there is probably a lot to this story. We still don't know.

I'm not sure. You're all going to groan at me. OK, bring it on. Bring it on. So this is the moment at which you lost your potential role co-hosting the view because you made everyone look dumb well i you know look um it was it was disheartening because it i as much as they were saying you know he lost the one thing he wants to do with his life well look is everyone in america entitled to do the one thing that they want to do with their life if that's becoming the star starting quarterback for an NFL team? No.

There are 32 guys out there who get that job, and it's for a whole lot of reasons. And it's not just whether or not they can throw a football down the field. Look, Colin Kaepernick, they settled his lawsuit. The guy that was in on it with him, Eric Reid, they settled with him too. He's still playing in the NFL, Eric Reid. So to suggest that Colin lost out and he's never going to play again, well, Colin made a lot of decisions about he did a tryout. He said, come look at me throw, everyone.

I'm going to do this throwing demonstration. You can all come scout me. And then at the last minute, he moved the site of that. Now they'll say, well, because he didn't want cameras there. Well, these are decisions you have to make. What is it you really want? Do you not want cameras there? Or do you really want a legit shot

at getting back into the NFL? Which is it that you want? And you make those decisions. And sometimes the way to getting where you want to go is making some compromises. I love the story of Amelia Earhart. And the first time she was asked to get in a plane and become the first woman to help fly a plane, it was as the navigator, not as the pilot. It was as the co-pilot. And she could have been offended and said, no, no, it's either all me or nothing. Well, she didn't. She said, this is an opportunity. I'm going to do it. She did it. And now we all, she's a household name and, you know, sadly for terrible reasons, but the point is she saw her

path. You can't have everything your way in this life. You work your way around and through the obstacles. If he really, really wanted that, the one thing he wanted Megan in this life was to be a starting quarterback in the NFL. He'd be one right now. And you know, given that he had the talent, but he made some business decisions and they didn't necessarily. And I think he knew what he was risking. And I think that there are legitimate complaints about race in the NFL and everywhere else in America. But that's not why Colin Kaepernick's not in the NFL. Like if Tom Brady took some controversial stance on something before he retired, they would still hire him. I mean, like talent in the end wins out because they're capitalists. They want to make money off of you. They want a winning team. It's exactly right.

And they'll spend a fortune to do it. And just ask the highest paid athletes in the NFL. It is about winning. But I do know for a fact that teams talk to Colin Kaepernick. They talk to him about, because really at that point in his career, backup was the only position that was available to him for a number of reasons. He was a good quarterback. He had a really good season the year they went to the Super Bowl. He was not Tom Brady. He was not Matthew Stafford. He was not those guys. Trust me. I think if he were, if he had that kind of talent, he would have found his way onto a roster because you're right. They want to win.

But he also made that decision. He made that decision that if I'm going to any team, all of this is coming along with me. I've got to be able to do and say what I want. And even if I'm a backup quarterback, I'm still going to do and say what I want and maybe bring this along with me. And I'll tell you this as well. Teams don't necessarily want to bring all of that with you unless you're Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers. That's right.

Aaron Rodgers, you know, so it's not the same as like discriminating against him because he stood up against racism. It's are you going to be like a political activist looking to capitalize on every wrong move a coach makes, a player makes, a fan makes? Like I, I can relate to this in a way. I mean, when I got involved and I was sort of drafted into the Me Too movement in a way, it was never something I wanted to be affiliated with. I'm going to do the next right thing. And before you know it, that led to a whole cascade of things happening. But my point was, I didn't want to be affiliated with any movement. I don't really like activism. I just it's not my thing. But I understood in not backing Roger Ailes, I could never work again. It was possible that I would never work again because all of our companies, for the most part, are run by men. And, you know, maybe they would look at me and say, she doesn't she's not loyal to to the men who run these companies and therefore I don't want.

So you make your own decisions, right? That wouldn't have been illegal for somebody to do that to me to say, she's a headache. You know, she might turn on me. I don't want, I get it. And by the way, if you're a shit bag, I might. That's why I don't have a boss now. Isn't that a beautiful thing? I mean, we all make our own choices.

Choices, choices. And you just put it so well. I don't know that there's a whole lot more I can add to that. But you're you are spot on that every player in the NFL comes with a set. And there have been plenty of players speaking out against racism, which is a welcome thing to see and hear. But they've done it in a way that hasn't been detrimental to their team. That's such a good point. And you also pointed out, it's tough to cry a tear for Colin Kaepernick with his Nike deal. And I mean, his Netflix deal. It's like, could you please spare me? Cry me a river. Right, right. Again, I think he's going to be financially just okay. Yes. I was Sonny Hostin's talking about I think he's going to be financially just okay. Yes, I was Sonny Hostin's talking about him like he's homeless on the street. Like, you know what? He's good. He clearly wants to do social activism. He's doing it and he's getting paid tens of millions of dollars. So move on to your next cause and we'll see if we feel sorry for that one. All right, Michelle Tafoya is amazing. She's staying with us. I'm going to

squeeze in a break and then we have so much more to go over. So don't go away. I watched it at home with my kids. And it was so funny because, of course, I have two boys and a girl. And they were watching. They were asking about the players. And then you popped out. I'm like, hey, I'm interviewing her tomorrow. They're like, you are? Oh, my gosh. Suddenly, you became the biggest star. They were very excited for our exchange.

And then this moment happened. And they were even more excited. Here's soundbite one from last night. Michelle interviewing Aaron Donald, the star defender of the Rams, after his big Super Bowl win. What did you see on that last play that enabled you to do what you did and make that stop? Strange, strange. You know, one last play. They'll be world champs.

Give it everything you got. I found a way to get to them. We made a play and we won. That's all that matters, so You talked about the confetti the feeling I know you're gonna get a chance to hold that Lombardi trophy that you wanted to hug For so long. How does this measure up to what you thought it might be like Aaron? It's the best thing in the world God is great. God is great. I just Master where I don't know what to say i don't know what to say this is a blessing this is a blessing it was a great moment and by the

way it's a great follow-up because he had said moments earlier i've dreamed of this i've dreamed of this and it seems like a simple question like how does it measure up but it's actually not it was a clever way to round back to it and to the emotion and bring us there again and get him to expand on it. And that was like the moment of the night. That's what you're looking for, just to make people at home feel something. right after the game ends up. You're getting Aaron Donald go, and there are two full teams plus all their staffs and family and PR on the field, and you're trying to find your guy. And fortunately, I mean, I had help, obviously, but you're desperately, and you want to do it live, so you're trying to get it immediately.

And by the time I got to him, he was just, he was crying so hard. It was just beautiful. We had spent time with Aaron. I mean, I've spent time with him over the years, just knowing what kind of competitor he is, what this meant to him. It's hard to explain because I think people think, you know, it's already so glamorous and so amazing to just be an NFL player. There is a, an enormous step that changes in your life or that you take in your life. Once you become a world champion, it's something that no one can ever

take away. All your regrets are released because your career has meant it. It's been worth it. And I know that's what this was for Aaron and nobody works harder than that man um and so to see him able to do it to achieve that final play and then to be able to soak it in it was it was really it was beautiful to watch all right now I'm getting emotional because I'm thinking about you and I'm thinking about that was your last Super Bowl like that was a culminating moment for you too I don't know why I'm feeling emotional about this, but it was a big night for you, too. And to spend your last night reporting on the sidelines at the Super Bowl

and celebrating whoever's win, probably in your view, although you're from California, so maybe you like the Rams. That must have been great. Your colleagues in the booth giving you an emotional goodbye. Do we have, I think, yeah, we've got Al Michaels. Here's Al Michaels. This is SOT16. A16 a couple of things number one Michelle Tafoya retiring from sports casting Michelle we love you you have been so much fun and we'll hear a lot more from her you and I don't

know what the future holds pal yeah like I mean how many people were watching last night saw that moment you know just like a moment but it's it means something it did but i'll tell you what you didn't see that really was shocking and surprising to me so i finally was getting ready to leave the field and i said and i was i had a couple people with me but i stopped and i said i should i should turn around and look at this field. Just kind of, because I hadn't been able to soak it in yet. So I turned around, I'm in the kind of right outside of a tunnel, and I'm looking at the whole, the stadium is beautiful, by the way. And I'm looking at it, and I'm looking at the lights, and I'm looking at this place where I've spent the last 25 years of my life

as kind of like my workplace. And that I would never stand right there again in that role with that kind of view and that kind of access and that kind of excitement and that kind of feeling. And I lost it and I had been keeping it together all week. I hadn't been thinking about it because I just had a job to do. And I was looking forward to getting on with Megyn Kelly on Monday morning. And I was just like, go, go, go. And all of a sudden I just, I lost it. And I just started crying and I didn't want anyone to see it. I'm just like going like this. And, but I didn't want to walk away still. I wanted to just look.

And I said to myself, this is, this is really weird and sad, but I've got to just look at, I got to, so I got to look at this and not forget that this is what I've done for 25 years. It's been a privilege. It's been fun. It's been hard. This is the last view, Michelle, just take it in for another minute. Yeah, so that was when it all came crashing home as to, I won't be standing on a field again anytime soon. Meanwhile, the fans were like, bangles fan. Jeez, good lord,

save it for the sideline lady um no but i get it it would be emotional and i and i i think that's important to take stock is change while i totally believe in it i i i think you know you can't be willy-nilly about it but rush to change if you're feeling stale i like it's always worked for me i don't understand those people who live in the same house for their entire life and like have the same job for their entire life. Like I need more, I need to mix it up more than that, but that doesn't mean it's easy. And the goodbye part before the new part is the hardest part of it, right? Once you've made the decision, like the separation and the end of something, that's most of the reason why most people don't do it, but it's, it's worth it in the end. I really believe it will be. I've been thinking about this change

for multiple years. I originally gave notice to NBC, I think after the 2018 season, I said 2019 would be my last. And then they said, could you just stay on until the Super Bowl? And all kinds of machinations happened. And so here I am. But I wouldn't trade it. But it has been a long thought out change. Exactly what's going to come next, exactly specifically, I don't know. But I like the start I'm having right here, right now. Me too. Is it possible you could wind up on the ticket? They've asked and it's doubtful. Look, in this first year off, I kind of want to take it at my own pace and that would not allow me to take it at my own pace. I mean, I'd have to be just off and running 18 hour days. And you know, I don't think that would be putting my money where my mouth is as far as my kids go. How old are they now, Michelle?

They are 16 and eight and 13 and they don't really need me, but I kind of need them. And I, I miss so much. And, um, and, and I just, I want to make sure I'm at every baseball game and every soccer game and every basketball. I want to be there. I want to share that time with my husband. He's been just flying solo for so much of it. And, um, and so, you know, I want us to find a new family footing. Um, listen, it's tempting. Uh, but I do feel like I'm, I can better effectuate change. I think, um, in the the short term at least by just using my voice.

You have time. You're 56 years old. I'm 51 and I laugh because I feel old sometimes. And then I look at how they talk about the Supreme Court nominees and they're like, she's only 50. I'm like, oh, I'm good. Yeah, just compare yourself to the Supreme Court. Oh, you're so good. Yeah, like she could do 35 years. I'm like, yeah, I feel so much better, just compare yourself to the Supreme Court. Oh, you're so good. Yeah, like she could do 35 years.

I'm like, yeah, I feel so much better. Plus, 50 is the new 30, Megan. So, you know. That's what Tony Robbins tells me. All I have to do is have something called peptides and I'm going to live forever, according to him. Buy his new book and you will too. Peptides, I like it. Speaking of which, my husband, Doug, was out of town last night.

He texted me about the Super Bowl show and said, I thought it was amazing. And he said, best Super Bowl show I've seen in years. And I said, literally, my friend just texted me saying, if you like the Super Bowl show, it's time to get your colonoscopy. They were suggesting it's for old people, Michelle. I'm like, I'm concerned because I do like some of these artists. They are more my era and yours too and Doug's too so what did you make of it like what was the buzz there about the big the big show

the buzz in the arena was like awesome and um it's it's you know what I'll tell you what I've done five Super Bowls and every time there's a mixed reaction afterward there's one experience that people get inside the stadium, and there's a completely different experience people get watching at home. But even as we left last night and all the texts are flying and everyone's looking at Twitter and all the rest, and the best Super Bowl show ever, halftime show is the best, there were some people, I got texts this morning saying,

I don't need to see men grabbing themselves at halftime. The NFL should be ashamed of itself. So, you know, I was energized by it. I enjoyed it. I thought it was good. And I thought it crossed a lot of generations because some of that music is transcendent. And, like, my kids were so impressed.

Somebody, I think it was the New York Times. I think it was referred to it as oldies presenting old. I'm like, oldies? What? That's bullshit. That kind of gets past me. I don't get that at all. Because I, you know, I mean, if they had gone any newer into some of the rap and R&B that's out there, it wouldn't have been, we couldn't have televised it, by the way.

That's exactly right. Well, I was like you. some of the rap and R&B that's out there, it wouldn't have been, we couldn't have televised it, by the way. That's exactly right. Well, I was like you. I was like that old lady, like, well, your friend, I guess I should, I was like, I'm seeing too much. I don't need to see the gyrating. You know, people watch this with their young kids.

And then I actually said, I actually said the line of, there's no melody. You know, back when I was a kid, I mean, I've become my my grandpa my music had a melody this is happening so much i know it's crazy it's it's funny a little behind the scenes story so um after the game i finally made my way back to what our little production hub it's actually quite large but so al and ch Chris were waiting there for me.

And then I saw this whole group amassing and there was Eminem, Mr. Mathers, and he is diminutive. He's small. I feel like a giant next to him, but he was waiting. He loves,

he's always loved Al Michaels, just thinks the world of Al Michaels. And so they were talking and, and I was just sort of like peeking and Al said, Hey, do you know Michelle? And he brought me over and he looked at me, Eminem, and he goes, Oh shit, you're that woman. And I was like, wow, you know who I am. I was so floored. I mean, seriously, but I don't know you know it every year it never fails you're gonna have people who hate it yeah that's right well one thing i didn't hate was uh there wasn't

a mask in sight there the mandate is still in place the indoor california i said to my assistant i'm like is the mask mandate lifted like i know it as well be right like there were more bare faces than masked i totally totally totally totally and there are rumors that they're going to drop this mask mandate tomorrow here in california or in los angeles i was thinking you if you do that you're gonna look so bad for mandating these masks at the super bowl i mean it's going to be ridiculous but by the way nobody wore them and they And they said, you know, we're going to have people walking around enforcing and everyone's going to get a free N95 when they walk in. Guarantee you, by the way, I shouldn't guarantee, but I strongly

suspect those N95s were made in China because the one I was given was made in China. So bravo. But yeah, look at these pictures there's not one human in a mask all these celebrities hearts on their chin they're right exactly all these celebrities who are constantly lecturing america with the there's not not even pretending there's not even like the mask hanging from the ear the way some people do but forget the celebrities it was like all the california authorities from the governor to once again, the L.A. mayor. I mean, it's their mandate. And even they. So Michael Brendan Doherty of the National Review, who I love, he was like, it's officially the end of the pandemic. It's over. It sort of began with a sports moment. Remember, there was a basketball player who had like touched all the microphones and he got it and he made national news and it ended. It ended officially last night when, I mean, in the bluest state with the most restrictive mask policies, everyone, including the officials who put them into place,

blew them off entirely. That's why people are so pissed off and sick of the authorities and sick of listening to people who have lost so much credibility in all of this. I think Megan, that's the other scary thing we're enduring right now is where do we look for true leadership and credibility right now? I don't have a good answer for that. So I say, okay, in our house, this is how we're going to do it. I don't care what everyone this is. So everyone's kind of left on their own right now, which might be the best thing. But eventually, where, who are we going to trust? Yeah, no, I mean, after this, like truly, especially in California, do not wear a mask. Like I the thing that's infuriating is the children

have no choice because they work, you know, they go into school and these crazy teachers are like, put your mask on. And they're little. So they do it. And they're you know, they have to be respectful of authority. But we don't. And especially in California, you like take it up with Governor Newsom. Take it up with Mayor Garcetti. I'm not wearing. Why should they? Anyway, I have to pause. I have to do one more break and then I'm coming back. Michelle DeFoy, there's still much more to discuss. All right. A weird question for you, but not really. As a woman who's made it in the man's world.

I mean, it's a world and there are a lot of men in it, but they do tend to run sports and sports television. What do you make of Joe Biden's decision to say I'm picking a black woman for the Supreme Court? I'm sure you got some feelings on this. I do too. I'm really genuinely curious to know what you think. If that was really what he wanted, go ahead and do it. Don't announce it to the world. Just do it and let it stand on its merits. You didn't need to make that like your agenda. Just just do it. I just don't. You know, I know there are credible women of color out there.

So go nominate one. But don't have her. You know, he kneecapped the choice before he named her to help himself. It's awful. Don't even get me started. Yeah. OK, good. Because, you know, I get it.

And I know you've been saying I don't want to be known as the best women's sports reporter. I want to be known as the best sports reporter. And that's been the key to your success. Why would you put these things in your way that are sort of made up constructs of, I mean, yes, there are men and there are women, as you said. But I don't go and battle just women in my industry. I went and competed with everyone. And I didn't think of myself and put my check this box. I mean, if I could, if I were going to check boxes, I'd be doing it all day. Oh, I'm Hispanic with a little Irish blood and I'm brunette and I'm less than five foot eight. So that's the group I'm going to compete with. No, just go compete as a human being. That's right. Okay. Let me talk to you about you personally, because there's some interesting stuff in your background. I could relate to your struggles with infertility because in my case, you know, I got married to my husband. I had to start a marriage. So then my real marriage to Doug didn't start until I was 37. So I was kind of getting long in the tooth for the babies. And I could relate to your frustration and trying to get pregnant and so on. But I did want to circle to the part of you wound up, you had one biological child who was just like a surprise after all your IVFs and miscarriages and some very tough times.

And that's the way it is, right? As soon as you relax or give up, you get, right? And then for your second child, you decided to adopt. And I read that you said about your husband, your husband phrased it as now we get to adopt, not have to, get to. Correct. It was one of the most freeing things he ever said to me. My husband's awesome. And he said that now we get to adopt. And, and it's just been the greatest gift I've ever been given. And I hope I do get to meet her mother face to face someday. And if she wants to, we will do that because I want to thank this woman for giving me the

greatest gift I've ever had the pleasure of having in my life. And she just keeps on giving. It's been amazing. And Michelle, I talked to so many women who are so worried they don't want to use donor eggs or they don't want to adopt. And they're like, you know, I always laugh because everybody thinks their genes are the best. Like, what if I get somebody else's, you know, and you kind of look at it, half of them like, well, that might not be such a bad thing. Maybe take somebody else's.

But you said the same thing my friends who are adoptive mothers have said, which is you forget. That thing is a barrier to entry only. You know, the fact that this baby was born to another woman. They do become your child, 100% your child. Totally and completely. And whenever she calls me mommy, it's that much more special. Even at 13, she's still calling me mommy. That goes away.

And this is your child. This is your charge. This is your love. This is, and don't even get me started with my husband. I mean, she's got him wrapped. It's, and it is interesting. Your own child is almost like a lab experiment. Oh, that part's you.

And this part's me, you know, and then this adoptive child, the things that she brings to our family that have nothing to do with my husband nor me are amazing. And we love it. Like she does not like chocolate. So she's clearly biologically not ours. You know, it's like little things like that. She's a great athlete, all these things. And it's just, it's so incredible to watch and help her grow. And yet I, if there's one piece of advice I could give it's you will find your family somehow, some way, let it happen because, oh my God, I can't imagine my life without her. So is that what happened? The wonderful husband that she loves so much as well. He pulled

you to Minnesota because I truly I'm hung up on like who that was raised in california would move to minnesota what well the weather in california is so boring it's the same day after day i wanted a challenge no honestly i i left california i was in charlotte north carolina for my first job i wanted to leave there minnesota offered me a chance to cover the Minnesota Vikings. I wanted to cover the NFL. And then I met my husband because honestly, Megan, when I first got to Minnesota, it was 30 below with windchill. And I thought, what am I doing? And then I saw the change of seasons. And then I met my husband and, you know, it's turned into home. It's crazy. But there we are. You know what? He must be amazing in bed. It's just good. We'll talk later.

It's done. I can't wait. Michelle, please come back. There's so many more things I wanted to get your opinion on. You're a great talker, a great woman, a great professional. You don't need it. But good luck with all the next chapter. I appreciate it. And at the risk of sounding like I'm just blowing smoke here, you're, you've been a big influence on my career and my decision making about all of this. You're a phenomenal voice. I'm so grateful for you in this space, in this, I hate that, in this space, in this arena. Keep it going.

Oh, thank you. Thank you. I love that. I appreciate it. All right, lots of love to you and the fam. You too. Okay, I want to tell the audience that up next, we are bringing on Victor Davis Hanson

and we're going to bring you, we're going to try to break down this rather complex story in terms you can understand, because it's, if true, it's huge. It could definitely result in criminal charges for a whole host of people. And it's being completely blacked out by most in the mainstream media. I mean, it is being ignored. And trust me, if the shoe were on the other foot and Donald Trump had been accused of spying on Hillary Clinton's winning White House campaign, it would dominate the news cycle everywhere. But it's not. We'll be right back. Here to discuss the Clinton campaign's alleged spying on Donald Trump's campaign and on him while he was in the White House, as well as many other items in the news.

My pal Victor Davis Hanson, the Martin and Ely Anderson senior fellow at the Hoover Institution. Victor, thank you for being back on. What a day. This Durham bombshell is significant. Again, unconfirmed. These are allegations and a report that he is getting ready to say that or is pursuing claims that the Clinton campaign attorneys paid a tech company to infiltrate Donald Trump's campaign headquarters at Trump Tower and the executive office that he held in the White House, his computers, wanting to create a connection with Russia, hoping to find a connection with Russia. And if none existed, hoping to create a narrative that one nevertheless existed. Just a little bit more. This is the Daily Wire's Cabot Phillips did a good job explaining this today. This goes back to a meeting that the Clinton campaign lawyer Michael Sussman had with the FBI back in 2016, two months before the election. Sussman's been indicted for lying to the FBI, saying, I have no client. I'm just here to give you information about Donald Trump's connection to Russia. Meanwhile, it turns out he did have a connection.

He worked for the Hillary Clinton campaign, didn't disclose it. So he's already been charged with that. But more information appears to be coming out of Sussman. Durham now says Sussman presented information to them and that Sussman was working with a tech executive to obtain this data from Trump in very sketchy ways, that they infiltrated data from Trump's private residence during the campaign. And then after the campaign hacked into hacked into the executive office, trying to dig up dirt on Trump, and if none existed to create it. So what do you make of this? And, you know, the one layer deeper on the Durham investigation into what Hillary was up to when Trump was running and sitting as president. you're charged, that you charged, you were working for Perkins Coie, and I guess you charged the DNC who was being, you know, funded with the Hillary campaign money. So it's pretty evident that they

felt that they were exempt from any scrutiny. The other, another really bothersome angle to that, Megan, is that the FBI seems to be almost in cahoots with the Clinton campaign, but because this was seeded and the FBI was investigating, and we know that the FBI at one time paid Christopher Steele as an informant, even though that wasn't their idea. They were put onto Christopher Steele by people within the DNC or Perkins Co. via Glenn Simpson, et cetera. So it also raises this question, and this is all in light of the Hunter laptop and the going after James O'Keefe,

that what is the FBI doing now? It seems to be a retrieval or an auxiliary of the DNC and Democratic candidates. That's bothersome. And then the other thing is, don't Trump, we all, and I shouldn't say we all, but the country considered him unhinged when he said that they've been wiretapping me or putting wires, and everybody said, what an archaic way of thinking. He's paranoid. And he apparently had been tipped off because, remember, he moved out of Trump Tower or he ceased communicating. I went back just when I heard this story also, Megan, just a final thought. And I was amazed at how many people, the New York Times especially, but also the Washington Post

and major columnists that kept getting angry that this was not leading to a conviction or this was not being a scandal that would destroy the transition of Trump or even the presidency. So nobody has come out and said, I'm sorry that we published accounts of this and we took the FBI and basically Mark Alegas seeding the media. Nobody's ever said, just as they've never renounced Christopher Steele. And I don't think they ever will either. Correct. They haven't. They're still standing by him. And even Adam Schiff is coming out and saying, well, you know, they'll deal with him in the court as appropriate. But, you know, why should we have had questions about him? You know, he came forward, seemed like a legitimate guy. Really? There were a lot of questions about him

right from the get go, even to, you know, regular reporters, never mind if you're Adam Schiff. So you raise a really interesting point. If this was happening, because what they seem to be alleging is that there was a contract with an outside tech firm to run servers and or monitor servers that were being used inside the White House, and that whoever this so-called unnamed tech executive is, instead of just doing that, actually started mining data and farming it off to some university researchers with the goal of finding dirt that would show Trump had a connection with Russia that was somehow illicit while he was the sitting president. And so that whatever he kept doing, he kept doing that. Now, the question is, if that were happening, wouldn't our intelligence officials have known

about it? Wouldn't the FBI know if that were happening to a sitting president, never mind prior when he was running, when it was just the campaign? And why wouldn't they, Victor, have raised it with Trump, with the president at the time when it was going on? Well, I think the answer to that, Megan, your second question is found in something James Comey said when he met in a private conversation with the president of the United States as the director of the FBI. And he assured the president that he was not the object of an ongoing FBI investigation, which he knew to be untrue that he was. And second, he went immediately out into his vehicle and used an FBI apparatus, a communications device, a pad, I guess, and then recorded it all. And then subsequently, when he was fired, he leaked that. So the FBI, for a variety of reasons, this is just one of the

very minor ones, but for a variety of ongoing reasons, whether it's missing FBI phones during the Mueller investigation or Mueller staggering the ex-FBI head, staggering the dismissals of Stroke and Page so there didn't seem to be any connection between them. They were reassigned rather than fired for their unprofessionalism. Or James Baker talking to sources and probably leaking it to Yahoo or other sources right before the 2016 election. And then we have Kevin Clinesmith submitting a fraudulent doctor document. So we could go on and on, but there's something existentially wrong with the FBI. And I don't know if it's confined to the Washington echelon, but they seem to be an extension of the progressive movement or the DNC or whatever Democratic administration is in power. And they don't seem to, when you look at what they have done with Hunter laptop, they had that in their possession, they sat on it. And they didn't come out because

they were pressured because of the campaign, the election was approaching in 2020. And then they kind of had more performance art with James O'Keefe, who hasn't been charged yet for all of the publicity that seems to have been provided to the New York Times that almost immediately aired that story. So I don't know what to make of it because we all have respect for investigatory agencies. But I think it's a larger trend that all of us that are traditionals who have traditionally supported the CIA, the FBI, the NSA, the Pentagon, they have lost the support of half the country. And it's not just me pontificating. If you look at the latest poll, the Pentagon, only 45% in a recent Reagan Library poll expressed confidence in the military. When you look

at the polls of the FBI, it's even more dismal. And when you have people like James Comey 245 times saying he can't remember while under oath or andrew mccabe on three occasions lying under oath to federal investigators or john brennan on two occasions lying under oath about the cia tapping into senate computers or that drone operations did not have any collateral damage, or James Clapper lying under oath. In fact, he said that I gave the least untruthful answer when he said the NSA doesn't spy on people, or Adam Schiff, the same thing. And so this is all a narrative that we've lost confidence in what were very traditional American institutions. This all appears in a John Durham motion

in support of alleging conflicts of interest in the case. So no one's been, there haven't been new indictments handed down, but there absolutely could be. You know, Trump, known for his hyperbole on a lot of issues, may not be wrong when he says this is worse than Watergate.

I mean, if this pans out, if she and her campaign were actively spying on the sitting president on his campaign for president, then on the sitting president and working to create dirt that would possibly bring him down. She definitely could be facing criminal charges. She or whoever they can actually pin it on. And this would be an enormous enormous ethical and legal breach we're not there yet but that's what's being alleged essentially we'll hear we'll see the names filled in um but just by way of info uh victor back in 2016 people are now pulling up her old tweets and it was october 31st 2016 right before the election she tweets out computer science scientists have apparently uncovered a covert server linking the trump organization

to a russian-based bank oh which computer sciences are those hillary right i mean now we're getting a better picture. Then she shared a statement from her campaign's then senior policy advisor, Jake Sullivan. He's now national security advisor, this guy, saying as follows, a couple highlights from what he was saying. They're stoking the fire. This is the point I'm going for. This could be the most direct link yet between Donald Trump and Moscow. Secret hotline may be the key to unlocking the mystery of Trump's ties to Russia. It raises even more troubling questions in light of Russia's masterminding of hacking efforts that are clearly intended to hurt Hillary Clinton's campaign. Hello, pot, meat, kettle. And here's the last one.

Can only assume federal authorities will now explore this direct connection. Oh, really? Can only assume that? Can only assume federal authorities will now explore this direct connection between Trump and Russia as part of their existing probe into Russia's meddling in our elections. Meanwhile, the Clinton campaign lawyer Sussman is in there telling the FBI, I've unearthed it. This is the thing. You've got to look into it. No, I have no client. It's not the Hillary Clinton campaign. I'm just a good citizen. And now we know all this other stuff was happening behind the scenes. This is this is criminal, Victor. It is criminal. And it begs the question, why did Hillary Clinton have such confidence that she could make these statements publicly when privately she knows she had some exposure? I think the answer is that she had a series of Clintonites that were seated deeply within the Obama administration. And we can see what Bruce Ohr was doing at the time she was talking. He was seeding the dossier and talking to people in the Justice Department.

Loretta Lynch and Bill Clinton had been meeting on that tarmac. And about what? I don't know. Probably the Hillary Clinton email investigations. That was kept quiet. The same time Andrew McCabe was point man on the investigation while his wife was running for office in Virginia and getting Clinton-related PAC money from Terry McCaul's PAC. And the second thing was that this had been habitual for her, Megan. Remember the Uranium One scandal where she and the State Department committee had pretty much allowed 20% of North American uranium to fall in the hands of Russia at a time when

Bill Clinton had been given $500,000 a speak on just one occasion in Moscow. And when there were a lot of multimillion dollar gifts to the Clinton administration from Russian-related sources. And then we had, of course, the missing email scandal. And then we had the Steele dossier scandal. And I don't know whether what to make of it, maybe you do. And it's either one of two things that this repeated violation of ethical and probably legal statutes, then it emboldens her. And she says, well, if they didn't get me for that, then they won't get me for this and they won't get me for this. And she just becomes more emboldened or it starts to erode her credibility. And at some point, people are so embarrassed.

They say, this can't go on. She's just so fawning the law that let's stop it. I don't know what will happen. But no other political figure in our generation has so deliberately and ostentatiously broken the law, in my opinion. You know, they say, and I've talked to convicted felons about this, crossing the first ethical line is the hardest. And once you've done that, you're pretty much good. You know, it's sort of once you sort of abandon the commitment to following an ethical code, that's the biggest move. And then you're on the other side, and it's a party.

It's like whatever you want, cup lunch. I think you're right, especially when she said, I mean, she went around for most of 2016 suggesting that Donald Trump, I shouldn't say suggesting, explicitly saying Donald Trump was not legitimately elected. They had all of those people, celebrities, grade B celebrities, making those commercials to reject the electors and have them defy their constitutional duty and reject Trump. And then almost immediately, she said she was part of the resistance, she said. And then when Joe Biden, in the closing days of the campaign, she suggested to him not to accept the results of the election if he lost. And then she, of course, during Trump's administration said he was illegitimately elected. What I'm getting at is that there's this psychological mechanism of projection. She seems to project Russian collusion when she's using Russian-related sources herself. She seems to

suggest that it's dishonest, and it is, and it's probably illegitimate to question a sanctioned U.S. election, but that's what she does all the time, sort of like Stacey Abrams. And then finally, you know, we all feel that Trump goes over the top. He's paranoid. He makes these outlandish statements. But if you or I or any of us in our own profession had been subject to what he was subject to, where they tried to destroy his campaign by the use of a fake Russian-related dossier and a discredited British spy who's not supposed as a foreign national to participate. And then Hillary Clinton through three firewalls, the DNC, Perkins Coie, and GPS was funneling dirt against Trump. They tapped Michael Flynn's communications and were going to charge him with archaic statues

that somehow he was communicating during the transition with foreign leaders, which they all do. And then we went right into Mueller for 22 months, found nothing. And then we went into Ukraine. And in light of what's happened to Ukraine and in light of what the Biden family revelations are about Ukraine, that first impeachment seemed very dubious. So I don't think any president has been subject to such an array of illicit amounts of attacks as Trump. But because he's so controversial himself, he doesn't benefit from sympathy that's accorded to someone that's been on the receiving end of such illegal activity. You know, I'm thinking right now of the election fraud claims, none of which he was able to sustain in court. But a fair amount of Republicans believe that the election fraud claims, which, you know, none of which he was able to sustain in court. But a fair amount of Republicans believe that the election was stolen. And this story kind of helps

you understand how they got there. If you're paying attention to anything that's not mainstream, because the mainstream buries this story and any stories about Durham or they mock Durham. You you think it's a joke. You think it's made up. You don't think Hillary spied on Donald at all. And you think he's some sort of weird conspiracy theorist who whenever anything bad happens to him, he just blames, you know, sort of some boogeyman, whether it's Hillary or somebody else or Comey. But these things actually happened. Her campaign, I mean, there's an indictment alleging that her campaign was up to no good and trying to create this connection. Even before today, we knew that. Not to mention all the things you listed, Carter Page ruining his life and so on.

And then you get to the election and Trump is saying, no, I'm telling you that they stole it. And a lot of these people who have seen him proven right time and time again and been told by the media, don't be so stupid, there's no way, are like, we're not listening to you anymore. Yeah. And that's not your impression or my impression. Remember that notorious Time Magazine article where they were bragging that Martin Zuckerberg had injected $419 million in preselected precincts in swing states, and they really absorbed the role and the job of state registrar employees. They kind of took it over and they added more mailboxes. They went out and harvested votes. But the point of that article was they used the word conspiracy, as in good conspiracy. We had a good conspiracy of changing the election laws in key

states, A, and then they said, B, we injected multimillion dollars in swing state precincts. And what I thought was the most disturbing was they said that we were able to modulate the demonstrations, i.e. Antifa and BLM all of a sudden in August and September and October started to taper off that 120 days. That was so it was really getting the middle class swing voter very upset. And they admit they admitted in kind of a braggadocio article that this is what they were doing. And yet if anybody on the right or center had written that article, they would have been called a conspiracist, but they were so arrogant and haughty after the Biden win. They were bragging how they just manipulated with the help of money and they cited people in the street, demonstrators and the CEOs. It's amazing because I used to consume my information and say, all right, well,

I know where not to go. I'm not going to go on Reddit to get my info as a news person. I'm going to take in sources from the far left and the far right and the center left and the center right and just sort of make up my own mind about where the truth is. And now it's almost as if I'm getting to the point where I feel like I need to avoid the mainstream altogether. They look at YouTube as though it's full of disinformation. I look at them that way. of Univision, Christian Amunds, Forbes, CNN, they all had the same narrative that traditional journalism could no longer sustain itself because Donald Trump posed such an existential threat to the election process, to global warming, to the border, and all of them had a different take, but they had the same conclusion that journalists must be activists. And that was replicated by the ACLU said the same thing almost. And so we entered a new era of journalism that they were going to be activists. And the data showed that remember the Shorenstein Center at

Harvard in the first 90 days said that the mainstream media, as well as cable news was 93% negative of the Trump administration. They'd never seen anything approximating that. So I think a lot of people just said the media by choice, and you can see it with CNN especially, its implosion, decided to be an arm of the progressive movement. And they kind of turned off. And it's disturbing because, you know, as I get older, my 68 years old, and all of these institutions that we all used to think were apolitical, the corporation, Wall Street, social media, Silicon Valley, K-12, we knew the university was, but entertainment, Hollywood, they've all become biased in the sense that they don't believe because they think their, their ends are so noble or morally superior to everybody that any means necessary, if, even if it,

if it disrupts their professional code is okay. And it's justified. There's not going to be anybody who apologizes about this alpha bank, uh, episode. They're just like Christopher Steele is unrepentant. So it was, no, they just bury it. They bury it. episode. Just like Christopher Steele is on Repentant. So is Marko Wallace. No, they just bury it. They bury it and it goes away unless you seek out alternative media,

unless you turn off CNN and try to find yourself a fox, which most Democrats, they are watching it, but sort of the hardcore believers, maybe not. And so the people who need to get the information about what she did, allegedly, aren't getting it. OK, there's there's a lot more to go over. I've got to talk to you about your your piece. Our elite is no elite at all. I was thinking about it last night as I watched sort of the crowd shots at the Super Bowl and who's who of celebrity and political culture. And you've got to hear what Victor Davis Hanson has to say on that. Don't go away. That's up next. So, Victor, I'm looking at sort of the collection of, you know, our betters last night at the Super Bowl and the Super Bowl halftime show. And I'm thinking, OK, this is this is the so-called elite. This is the who's who of Hollywood and sports and so on. It's like, OK, half the fans in the audience, whatever, Ben Affleck and so on, have had problems so a time where we're seeing record murders of police, celebrating cop killings.

I mean, you know, people accused of felonies left and right. I'm thinking, OK, I don't to me, they don't feel that elite. But I guess I'm supposed to listen to these people. It's fine to sing and to act and for me to sort of take in the music and take in the acting. But the society wants us to believe they're more than that and treats them like they're more than that. And you had a great piece about how the elites aren't. What are your thoughts? Well, I think there's two issues here, Megan. There's what you and I feel about it. And we have a definite, maybe traditional point of view. So when we see Dr. Dre go up there and mention in his lyrics, anti-police. And I don't know if Kendrick

Lamar said it or not. I couldn't tell, but he had the, don't hate the popo or something, the police. And then you have a record number of police killed and you're banning people like Kate Smith singing God Bless America. There's obviously a point of view that the counterculture or people who have, they have gripes against the origins or the progression or the current state of America. They don't like it. Apparently they don't like what it is. And this is an avenue, but what's different is this was a national celebration,

whether we like it or not, the Superbowl is sort of a national celebration of Americana. And yet for these performers and the people that you mentioned to have such a negative or not a very impressive record themselves, that's one thing. And then there's also an abstract standard. When we look at all of these people and we say, OK, let's see what this generation that calls itself an elite has done. When we look at the Oscars today and we look at qualities of films in the 40s and 50s and we look at comic books or Marvel comic book remakes, or we look at hip hop compared to, I don't know, jazz or folk music. Or we look at this generation's, I don't know, high-speed rail in California versus the construction of the Hoover Dam. Or when I look at the university curriculum, which I was a part of for 40 years, and I see that today's people at places like Stanford University have no idea who Dante is.

They don't know. If you ask them what Plato wrote, they wouldn't know. And then I look at scholarship and the quality. I don't see any improvement, and yet it's juxtaposed to this self-important, arrogant view that they're somehow pathbreakers, and they've created this wonderful new America. And then this is all aside, Megan, from we're looking at the national news, and we've had the greatest, this generation gave us the greatest emulation since 1975 on the rooftop of Saigon in Kabul. There is no border. It's not that it's porous. They just arbitrarily decided to violate federal law. We've had the highest inflation in

40 years. We're $30 trillion now in debt. We're printing money at an astronomical rate. And we were the world's greatest oil and gas producer just two years ago. And now we're not. We're going down. Why we're begging the Saudis and Russians to make up the slack. So I don't see anything to be so proud about. That's what I'm getting at. No, you make a great point because you take aim at the Kardashians, their elites. They've reached this by merchandising and popularizing larger than normal posteriors, you write, posting selfies of their ample boobs and butts. That's amazing. I love that. But then you point out that the brilliant Thomas Sowell or Shelby Steele, they're not elites. Instead, Ibram Kendi and Joy Reid, they are, right? The juxtaposition, it all comes down to politics.

What are your politics? And that's why people like Michelle Tafoya do need to be careful about speaking out about their conservative values, because these industries will punish her where they wouldn't punish somebody who is necessarily going, you know, equally left, like center left, maybe far left they'd punish, but they would never punish center left. Yeah, I think that's a good point. The arts by nature and academia have always been left center. But what's different now is they have projected the idea that they are in control. And this is the mainstream, even though there's no, there's not very much popular support. And most people don't have an ideology, the 80% in the middle, but they react to perceived momentum or pressure. And they want to be part of a winning team, sort of like no fans

when the 49ers are 0 and 10 and packed stadiums when they're 10 and 0. But the left has created this illusion that they control all these institutions and therefore the majority of America are with them. And so I think it's very incumbent upon people to keep trying to remind America that they don't have popular support and that they have an agenda that's by any abstract measure, empirical standard is unsustainable. It just won't work. You can't have a country when the elites don't believe in it. They don't think it's better than the alternative. They always look at the sum total of what is wrong with America, and that becomes America rather than incidental to a great nation. So I think the midterms, we always say these are the most important midterms. Usually they're not. But if there is a referendum on all of this and is a large Republican victory, not that I'm trying to be a megaphone for the Republicans. I think it will have a profound effect. It'll be sort of like the McGovern

era came to a terrible close and then people started pointing fingers and then the Democratic Party went to Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton and went back. But I think they have to have a political rebuke or this will continue. Following up on that, I did read you're a registered independent, which I am as well. Why is that? Because some people might be surprised you're not a Republican. You know, I grew up in a Democratic household and I'm speaking from this farm that was been in my family since 1870, where I'm speaking as 150 years old. And we were all agrarians, small farmers. My grandparents didn't go to college.

And it was the idea of this is a great country. The Democratic Party gave us Social Security. I had an aunt that was bedridden, and she lived here for 70 years. And she had Social Security disability. When she got that, that was a wonderful thing. And it was the idea that the little guy, the middle class was the backbone of America. And they felt fairly or not that the Republican party was easily caricatured as golfers, you know, were wealthy, the 1%, et cetera. And then, so I was a Democrat and then I then I saw what we had been talking about, that the Democratic Party is becoming really a party of the mega rich or the upper, upper middle class and the very poor, and that the middle class now is gravitated toward the Republicans of all different races.

I think that's starting. So I guess it was tradition or habit that I didn't register as Republican. But there were certain things, I'll be a little bit candid here. During the Bush years, and I don't know how to say it, but in the business that I got into writing, there were a certain type of Republican pundit, intellectual that was condescending to people. And I felt they didn't have a familiarity with the muscular classes. They didn't get out of New York or Washington. And they always were talking about, if we just had capital gains, if we can just privatize social security without ever having people that their lifeblood was social security. So even though I was in some

ways more conservative than them, especially on the border, they were always telling I got attacked from all these Republicans. Let the let the market adjudicate the border. When it gets down to two dollars an hour, they won't come. But so I just thought that I got kind of tired of the Republicans. And then, you know, Trump, everybody makes fun of him. But he did bring a nationalist populist flavor to traditionalism and said the middle class, when he started using the word our, our farmers, our workers, I thought that was, you know, for all of the criticism of him, there is a movement in the Republican Party to reflect

the middle class. And I think that I approve that, but I didn't feel comfortable with traditional Romneyism or McCainism. I just, I don't know. The Bushes, I liked them, but I just felt that they were not, they weren't part of the world that I see here in southwestern Fresno County, and yet the left had gone unhinged, so I didn't know where to go. So I would just state an independent. Well, I like that. Independent is, you'll make up your mind on a case-by-case basis.

You don't have to subscribe to anything. You know what your own worldview is. When you're talking about the difference between the muscular class, I like that, and the so-called elites, I was thinking soft on crime DAs, not just politicians, George Soros. He's not living in a crappy neighborhood. He's got homes all over the world and they're amazing. Getting soft on crime DAs like Alvin Bragg elected in Manhattan, where the crime rate continues to spiral. Ours is not the only city. I just mentioned it because it's closest to me and I've been there for almost 20 years until recently. And there is a horrific case in the news today. On Friday, we ended the show with this horrific case of, oh gosh, it was another terrible crime where this man came up behind this woman

with a baseball bat, a homeless crazed man, and just swung, it was out of Seattle, swung at her head like it was a baseball coming at him and cracked her skull and she went to the hospital. Now we have something not totally similar, but another homeless, deranged guy. That's what the papers tell me. In New York, New York Post has exclusive video of it, which it's not of the crime. It's of the guy following this woman. Her name is Christina Yuna Lee, age 35, New York-based creative marketing producer. His name is Asamad Nash, age 25, homeless career criminal. That's how he's described.

The videotape we're showing for those who watch it on YouTube is he's following her. She gets into her, I don't know how many floor, six floor walk up in Chinatown. This is not a rich woman. He lays in wait. He follows her. He slowly, he's following her behind and sort of waiting for her to take her next move. So she doesn't see him following her up stairway after stairway. And then when she opens the door to her own apartment, he manages to follow her in and stabs her to death repeatedly. It's horrific. And the landlord of the building says, we have Alvin Bragg to thank. This guy, he was out on no bail on a crime he had just committed because this DA doesn't believe in bail and doesn't believe in locking people up. I mean, even in a lot of the serious

cases, nevermind the misdemeanors. And I think the one that he was locked up on wasn't one of the ones that Bragg will lock you up for. What do you make of it? Well, I mean, deterrence makes the world go around. And after the George Floyd death, there became the dominant narrative, which was false, that the police routinely and systematically and serially shoot unarmed black people. That was not true. In fact, of the 11 million arrests per year, African-Americans that come in custody of that group of 11 million people are no more likely to be shot by police than are other groups of the 11 million that are arrested.

But that was the narrative. And so in reaction to that hysteria of that looting and protesting, and we had 35 deaths, $2 billion in property damage. I think there were almost 2000 police officers injured. There are these narratives of defund the police and the Soros funded DA, especially in San Francisco and Los Angeles, but also other where St. Louis, Baltimore, Chicago. And out of that conundrum, we got no deterrence so that the criminal in a cost of benefit analysis decided that if he was going to commit a crime, there was very little likelihood

that he was going to be arrested. If he were going to be arrested, very little likelihood he was going to be put behind bars awaiting indictment. And if he was indicted, he was probably going to be found innocent or charges dropped. If he was convicted, there was very little likelihood that he was going to jail for traditional sentencing. And out of that step-by-step analysis, and people that I know commit crimes, I know some of them, they're very bright people, some of them. They just decided that the chances were that it was much more lucrative to hurt or maim or whether that's defined in material or psychological or satanic terms, whatever term we use, than face punishment. And we have no deterrence now. And you can't even talk about crime because it's been fused with the whole BLM

woke movement. So I know a lot of Asian American people will write me and they'll say to me or call me and they'll say, why don't you write that in the big cities that the African American male demographic is committing these crimes against Asians at a greater propensity than their six or 7% of the population. And indeed, the FBI statistics show that in terms of hate crimes, the last year we had it, but you can't talk about that. In fact, I've given a lot of interviews to Chinese language, Taiwanese groups, and this is a big hot topic in that community, that African-American males are committing anti-Asian hate crimes at a record level that is not proportionate to their demographic percentages, and yet no one can talk about it. In fact, they talk the opposite. They

just say hate crime. And it's the same thing in universities right now, Megan, that we have something called the Clery Act that because of a tragic death a few years ago, the federal government passed a law that said anybody on a campus that was a suspect or had a criminal record or came in contact, the campus police had to report any crime and they had to give a full description of the suspect. That simply disappeared, that noncompliance. In fact, the Trump administration fined universities several million dollars if they were deliberately. And so when I get things today, and I get them almost daily because I'm an emeritus from the CSU system and I work at Stanford University. If we had gone back two years ago, we would have said bike stolen or gun use or shots fired. And witnesses said the suspect and they would describe the suspect very clearly. Clothes worn, ethnic background, male or female, etc. Now they just say suspect description unknown. Now we've seen that in the national media and the New York Times.

And I think your point is that I think if I understand what you're saying, and I agree entirely, is they have weighed in and decided that the safety in this case of a co-ed who's made walk across a campus at night is not as important as virtue signaling that they don't want to be appearing to inordinately arrest somebody or demonize somebody of a particular race. And therefore, they're erring on that side, and they don't really care about the other people. That's what I'm worried about. To your point, too, the woman, the Asian woman who was shoved in front of the New York City oncoming subway train to her death, she was shoved by a black homeless man. And the Asian woman who was shoved in front of the New York City oncoming subway train and to her death, she was shoved by a black homeless man. And the New York Times blacked out much of hisuff out that dynamic where you know very well that if it had been you know a white man committing a similar crime on a person of color or anybody you know with some sort of more minority cultural background they they would have highlighted it right this is this appears to be policy for them and i realize it's it's you you cross a line when

you just gratuitously put up every criminal accused of random crime and just keep saying, and this is a black person and this is a black. That's misleading to a lot of white people commit crime, too. But this is a new dynamic, this black on Asian hate crime problem. And we do no one any favors by ignoring it. I mean, we've seen a pattern with respect to it. And as you point out, the FBI has too. Now, Al Sharpton commented on not the race angle, but the increase in crime, because you don't have to be the victim of something as horrific as this poor woman in Chinatown to feel the crime creeping up in your neighborhood if you live near a big

city. He's complaining about just going to the pharmacy and half the goods are locked up. I'd love to know, actually, if my audience is experiencing this in more rural parts of the country. I am out here in Fresno County. It's a joke. For sure, in New York, you can't get deodorant. It's like, are people stealing the secret?

Like, why? Why are they stealing the secret? Yeah. So Al Sharpton goes on MSNBC to complain about this and then he takes a shot from Nicole Hannah-Jones, who's on the side of,

you know, basically the criminals. But let's listen to Al and then I'll tell you what Nicole said. You go to a local pharmacy, Drainweed or any of them, they have the little button there. You hit the buzzer and the guy comes over and unlocks your toothpaste. I mean, we're talking about basic stuff. What did I miss that we now have to lock up toothpaste? He's got a challenge

there because there is a debate in the criminal justice system and there are those that are concerned, including me, about overloading the system in the jails with petty crimes. But at the same time, you cannot have a culture where people are just at random, just robbing and stealing and is out of control and is put on the front page of newspapers which only encourages others to do it okay so that now nicole hannah jones of the 1619 project writes as follows in a tweet this drumbeat for continued mass incarceration that's how she sees what he said is is really horrific to watch. A person stealing steak is not national news, and there have always been thefts from stores. This is how you legitimize the carceral state.

What do you make of it? Well, it's predicated that she's an elite, and she would not say that if somebody went into her upscale apartment and looted it like they do Walgreens. So all of these elites pontificate with the assumption they're never going to be subject to the consequences. And these are the consequences of our own ideology. Al Sharpton is very ironic because for years he advocated policies that their logical trajectory would lead to where we are now. The case of, if I could just very briefly talk about Nicole Jones, this is a person from the very beginning she entered the university. She wrote a letter at

the University of Notre Dame and said that white people were civilizational bloodsuckers, and it was very racist. She's herself of mixed ancestry. She's half white. Of course, we don't use the term white-black in the way the left created a word white-Hispanic when they wanted to demonize George Zimmerman and the Trayvon Martin. All of a sudden, he was white. He was not half Peruvian because that wasn't a narrative. But my point is that when you look at her career, she said during the 2020 riots that the property theft was not really theft because it was sort of, I guess that was a 1619 architect, and she basically said that America was created because it wanted to keep holding slaves unlike the British that were supposedly emancipated. And there was no evidence for that. In fact, some of the strongest anti-slavery

movement in the world had come from abolitionists from the North. But the point I'm making is, and then recently she tweeted and she gave another lecture in the Civil War when she said, and we go back to, and she's saying basically it was racist because we didn't have it earlier. But she said that Civil War started in 1865. And I thought to myself, you're the expert on the founding date and you're wrong by four years when the Civil War, which is the most important racial, slavery, political, military conflict in history, and you don't even know when it started. And then she finally came into the news that she was offered at the University of North Carolina a tenure position. She doesn't have a PhD. She

has no record of scholarship. If it had been anybody that I know that applied, they would have to wait six years to get tenure. And she thought that they had waited too long to offer that. There was too her professorship. She's got a Pulitzer Prize. She's got a very lucrative MacArthur Award. Everything that she criticized, the society that she continually criticized has been so generous to her. And yet there's no gratitude. There's nothing. And she would get very angry at hearing that. But I think she needs to hear it.

All these people, everybody is a human being. They're not part of a tribe in America. And you make your own destiny and you're responsible for your own actions. And you should be criticized when you're found wanting. And she's got a record of very hysterical and angry and factually incorrect, factually incorrect statements. And yet she wants to be considered a scholar worthy of instant tenure when she goes to a university. Victor Davis Hanson, nobody's got your memory, your recall of the facts, and your ability to use them in response to the right questions and the right inquiries. It's been wonderful. It's great to see you.

Thank you for having me. I want to tell you, tomorrow we're going to take on an issue that a lot of our listeners and our viewers have been asking us to talk about. Thank you for having me. I want to tell you tomorrow, we're going to take on an issue that a lot of our listeners and our viewers have been asking us to talk about. Several states now are seeing legal challenges as these states take away the mask mandates, right, especially in the schools and elsewhere, where parents of kids who they claim are immunocompromised are filing lawsuits to try to stop the masks from coming off. So tomorrow, we're going to hear from an attorney,

from some parents and a school board member pushing back on this tactic. And is this likely the next wave of the battle? Don't miss that. Meantime, download the show, Megyn Kelly Show on Apple, Pandora, Spotify and Stitcher. Subscribe at youtube.com slash Megyn Kelly. See you tomorrow. Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show.

No BS, no agenda, and no fear.