The Megyn Kelly Show - Status of Trump Trials, and Cornell Student Arrested Over Threats to Jews, with Mike Davis, Dave Aronberg, and Maureen Callahan | Ep. 660

Episode Date: November 1, 2023

Megyn Kelly is joined by Mike Davis, founder of the Article III Project, and Dave Aronberg, State Attorney for Palm Beach County, Florida, to discuss the Colorado lawsuit about Donald Trump and the 14th Amendment, whether Trump's name could be removed from the ballot, how the Supreme Court could reverse any ruling, Trump’s family taking the stand in his $250 million civil fraud trial, Trump’s Mar-a-Lago property and what it is worth vs. what he has claimed, Michael Cohen's recurring role in Trump’s legal trouble and his potential lies on the stand and before Congress, the legality of the gag order against Israel criticized over "war crimes," more footage of Harvard Jewish students being attacked by anti-Israel protesters, the anti-Semitic attacks continuously happening on college campuses, whether SBF will be found guilty, and more. Then Maureen Callahan, Daily Mail columnist, joins to discuss anti-Semitism in Jewish neighborhoods in NYC, what college administrators should be doing in order to protect Jewish students, why no one should let Alicia Keys get away with what appears to be an anti-Israel post, the now-famous Paulie's humble response to his viral video cursing out the guy ripping down hostage photos in Queens, why public figures should be held accountable for anti-Israel comments or posts, the truth about David and Victoria Beckham and the “Beckham” documentary, how they just skipped past scandals, the couple’s true dynamic coming to light, whether David Beckham appeared angry and bitter in the show, the difference between the honesty in Matthew Perry and Britney Spears' memoirs, and more.Aronberg: https://www.youtube.com/@FloridaLawManDavis: https://twitter.com/mrddmiaCallahan: https://www.dailymail.com Follow The Megyn Kelly Show on all social platforms: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/MegynKellyTwitter: http://Twitter.com/MegynKellyShowInstagram: http://Instagram.com/MegynKellyShowFacebook: http://Facebook.com/MegynKellyShow Find out more information at: https://www.devilmaycaremedia.com/megynkellyshow

Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at noon east. Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show. So much to get to today with the state of our cultural world in disarray. Later, we're going to be joined by one of our favorites, Maureen Callahan of The Daily Mail. I love talking to her. She's coming here right into the studio. But first, we begin with the Trump legal world, which has got a lot of activity in it right now that may be relevant to who will be the next president. The former president's legal troubles are, of course, seemingly never ending. He's facing four criminal indictments and four criminal trials over the next

year or so. But two other major cases are taking place right now that have gotten less attention, but are very important. One is in Colorado. In this case, the plaintiffs seek to remove Donald Trump from the 2024 ballot altogether from one of the critical swing states. Imagine it if they prevailed and they got him off the ballot in Colorado, presuming he gets the Republican nomination. This is based on that 14th Amendment argument that we've raised with you before. We've discussed it with Professor Dershowitz and others. But it's now on trial. It's being tried in front of a judge out in Colorado.

We'll take a look at it. Over here, closer to home in New York State, Attorney General Letitia James's civil fraud case against Trump and his family business continues today with Donald Trump Jr. expected to take the stand today. Eric Trump is supposed to take the stand later this week. And Donald Trump Sr. is also expected. And there is also news in the Georgia Fannie Willis case, in the D.C. Judge Chutkan case, and more. So there's a lot going on. We've not been paying as close attention to it because of Israel. But today's a good day to turn back.

And we've got our favorites here to break it all down for us. Two expert attorneys, Mike Davis, founder and president of the Article 3 Project, possibly Trump's future attorney general, and Dave Ehrenberg, state attorney for Palm Beach County, Florida, possibly another future Trump prosecutor. You can find Mike on Fox and Dave on MSNBC, but only here together. Guys, welcome back to the show. Thanks for having us. Okay, that could actually happen. Like you could be prosecutor, you could be defending.

I feel like I'm going to get the exclusive if that happens. So that's exciting to me. Let's talk about Colorado. It really would be extraordinary. We haven't been paying much attention to it. But Colorado, like that's a critical swing state. And if they can manage to keep him off the ballot, it would be huge in Colorado. But it would be tried in Colorado, but it would be tried

immediately in several other states. And there are efforts already underway in other states to get him off the ballot because the 14th Amendment reads in part, no person shall hold any office, civil or military, under the U.S., who, having previously taken an oath as an officer of the U.S. who having previously taken an oath as an officer of the U.S. to support the constitution shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. So if you, you're not allowed to hold office, civil or military at the federal level or otherwise, frankly, if you previously took an oath to support the constitution of the United States, and then you went on to engage in an insurrection or you gave aid to our enemies, this is what they're using to say. Donald Trump did that. The insurrection,

that's what the left says January 6th was. And they say nothing really needs to be done. It's self-executing. Like that's, that's what the 14th amendment says. That's what he did. It's done. The secretary of state of Colorado should remove him if he wins the nomination from all the ballots. She's a Democrat who would love to take his name off the ballots. She's made that clear publicly, but she says, I will wait until the judge tells me what to do. So thumbs up on that because that's how this should work. And there is a judge trial, a bench trial happening right now in Colorado to figure out whether this can happen.

The judge out there is named Judge Sarah B. Wallace, state district court judge. She doesn't appear to love Republicans. She she donated one hundred dollars in 2022 to Act Blue, which is a group that says its goal is to, quote, eliminate Davis. She's not a fan. However, let's give her the benefit of the doubt and say she can interpret the law irrespective of her politics. And how do you think this case is likely to come down? It's being tried right now. Well, I'm out here in Denver watching this trial in the courtroom all week. I'm taking a break now to come to come talk to you on this show. But I'll tell you, is this Denver District Court Judge Sarah Wallace was just appointed by the, she was appointed, she was named in August of 2022 by the Denver, or by the Colorado Democrat governor, and effective January of 2023,

and two months after she was named, but before she became a judge, she donated to this group called the Colorado Turnout Project. And the Colorado Turnout Project's specific mission is to remove Republicans from office who supported President Trump on January 6th, right? So how the hell can she donate to an anti-Trump January 6th group and then sit on a trial this week going after, preside over a trial that's trying to throw President Trump off the ballot based upon what he did on January 6th? That is an obvious conflict of interest. President Trump's lawyers raised this issue on Monday morning when they found this donation. And she said, oh, don't worry about it. I can be fair, right? Well, guess what? That's not the legal standard, as both you and Dave know. It doesn't matter whether she subjectively thinks that she could be fair when you're dealing with recusal issues. It's whether objectively the

public thinks that she can be fair. And I don't think any objective human being would think a judge could be fair on a January 6th trial to throw Trump off the ballot when she donated to a January 6th group to throw Republicans out of office who supported President Trump. So that's a very, you know, that's reversible air right there. I presume that she's going to rule in favor of these Democrats who are trying to throw President Trump off the ballot. This is an election challenge in Colorado. So it's immediately appealable to the Colorado Supreme Court. The Colorado Supreme Court has been stacked with left-wing activists. So I don't think there's any chance that President Trump wins there.

All these dirt balls from New York and California have moved into Colorado and destroyed my beloved Colorado so they can smoke weed. And so I think the Supreme Court... That's right. Stay home. Stay home, people.

So now I think the Supreme Court of the United States, which has discretionary review, I think they're going to have to put on their big boy pants and actually take a Trump case with their lifetime tenure and pay protection. I hope they find the courage to do their job here and they're going to have to fix this because other states are going to use this Colorado precedent. States like Michigan are going to point to Colorado as precedent and try to take Trump off the ballot in other swing states around the country. I mean, that would be huge. It would be huge for both sides, Dave, if he actually couldn't get on the ballot, if he wins the nomination. But can I get on the ballot in these critical swing states or some handful of them? That's that's ballgame. It does feel like lawfare. So can you speak to the judge's alleged conflicts of interest here? Good to be back with you, Megan, and with my friend Mike. First off, I don't think Colorado is a swing state, just as an initial matter. In fact, I don't see this happening in any true

swing states. It's only about six swing states, and Colorado is pretty blue. But let's talk about the judge. I understand that it doesn't look good that the judge gave money to ActBlue, which is just like the general clearinghouse for Democratic candidates. I mean, ActBlue is what all those Democrats would give to we give to ActBlue. It's I wouldn't read that much into it. She's trying to destroy the Republican Party. But the I admit that it doesn't look good. But neither does the fact that Judge Cannon in the Trump case was appointed by Donald Trump. The standard for accusing a judge, a judge is really high. It's a high burden. And she's not going to be recused and nor should Judge Cannon be recused for the case, even though Donald Trump appointed her to the bench. Or when this eventually gets to the Supreme Court, if Colorado rules to, you know, if the judge rules to bump

him off the ballot. I do think it gets to the U.S. Supreme Court where there are three judge justices appointed by Donald Trump. And ultimately, they are going to rule, in my view, that you can't use this process to remove a candidate for president off the ballot for a few reasons. Number one, he hasn't been charged with insurrection. Number two, Section 3 of the 14th Amendment is not that clear that it applies to the president. It applies to others, but it doesn't say the president. And so I think that this, in the end, will not be the reason why Donald Trump is not in the White House. If he is not returned to the White House, it won't be because of this. It'll be because the voters have spoken. Oh, so he's conceding the argument, Mike, a surprise twist for the audience at home. They

agree that Trump should not be bounced off the ballot because of the 14th Amendment thing. Can I ask you about that? Because there has been some legal debate about whether the 14th Amendment applies to somebody because, you know, the full textual version, I read a version with my own ellipses just to make it easier for people to follow. The longer version disqualification from holding office has other language, like no person shall be a Senator or representative in Congress. All right. He's not running for that or elector of president or vice and vice president. He's not running to be an elector, but then we get to, or hold any office civil or military under the United States. So why wouldn't that apply to

the president? Well, is it not a civil or military office under the United States. So why wouldn't that apply to the president? Is it not a civil or military office to be the commander in chief and president, Dave? It could, but legal scholars are in dispute over this. It's not, I didn't say it wouldn't necessarily apply. I said it's not clear. And I think that is just another reason why, ultimately, this United States Supreme Court, six to three conservative majority with three justices appointed by Donald Trump. They're not going to remove him from the ballot.

So I would agree with you guys that this is not going to happen. And as far as whether it should happen, I've never been a big fan of this argument. I think there are a lot of reasons not to put him back in the White House. But I don't think this is the best one. What's happening out there, Mike? I'm interested in your feelings because it seems to be an effort to persuade this judge who already seems very anti J6 and what happened, not that anybody's in support of what happened on January 6th, but to persuade her that it was just just as horrible as she's heard. It was even worse. What I read is that they started with opening statements, then a U.S. Capitol police officer who was on the, quote, front lines of the, quote, violent assault. And then, I mean, truly one of my least favorite Democrats. And there's a long list on both sides who I can't

stand. But Representative Eric Swalwell, I'm sorry, but he is like, I try never to mention him. I try net. I do both parties the service of never if I can avoid it mentioning their worst people, because I just think my audience hates them all and doesn't want to hear about them. But audience, I'm sorry he showed up and testified in the trial. So we're talking about him. He recounted the horrors of the January 6th day and the riot. So, Mike, what did what does all of that add up to just heartstrings or what insurrection? You have to convince her there was one. Well, and here's the issue. The 14th Amendment Amendment was ratified in 1868. There's actually a case on point dealing with disqualification of the Civil War insurrectionist. It's from 1869. The Chief Justice at the time, Samuel Chase, held that in order to disqualify under Section 3 of the 14th Amendment to disqualify for insurrection or rebellion, it's not self-executing. Congress has to pass a federal criminal statute, which Congress did in 1870.

There's an insurrection or rebellion federal criminal statute on the books since 1870. It was last updated in 1948. So if you want to get President Trump thrown off the ballot, you can't go to a partisan secretary of state or some goofball bias judge in Denver, Colorado. You have to have a U.S. attorney bring federal charges in federal court. You have to have evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. You have to have a unanimous federal jury, find him guilty, a federal judge can convict, and it has to be upheld on appeal. If that happens, then under this federal statute that was passed pursuant to Section 5 of the 14th Amendment to enact Section 3, then you can disqualify him.

Short of that, you cannot disqualify, right? The January 6th Committee spent tens of millions of dollars looking for this evidence. Jack Smith has spent tens of millions of dollars looking for this evidence. There is no evidence of an insurrection because it does not exist, right? What happened on January 6th was a lawful protest permitted by the National Park Service that devolved into a riot. It got out of control and turned into a riot. Hmm. I want to say this just going back and looking at it. Colorado has been blue for a while, but I would say it's definitely not as blue as, you know, like my home state of New York or New Jersey and so on. Like it's,

it's been in play. It's certainly on the lower levels. And we've been watching the Senate races very carefully there over the past couple of cycles, but Michigan, Dave Trump won Michigan in 2016, which is also getting ready. They actually have a challenge right now that Trump is trying to get rid of Minnesota. That's the case. He that's a state Trump lost to Hillary by, I think, 1.5%, 1.6%. So it was tight. So this Colorado ruling, especially if it goes up to SCOTUS, could actually have a big impact on these other states. So we do need to watch it. It's also a similar challenge filed in New Hampshire and so on. So I can see why the Trump campaign doesn't like these lawsuits and that it's important for them to win them, even though they don't think they probably agree with you that they're not

likely to prevail. Um, okay. Let's talk about what's happening in New York because this guy, I mean, this, this judge is, he's a piece of work. He obviously cannot stand Donald Trump and is not afraid to show it. So this is the case. Do you want to explain it, Dave? He's it's it's basically the state attorney general going after the Trump organization and Trump saying he and his in particular, his two sons overstated the Trump company assets in order to get bank loans at more favorable rates than he would have gotten if he had valued the assets of his company more accurately. But no one's claiming he didn't pay

the loans back or that the banks somehow got screwed. The banks aren't complaining. So Trump all along has been saying, no, there's no victim. What he tweeted out or truth out was there's no victim except me, except me, because, you know, he's losing this case. This judge hates him. So this is wrapping up now. What do you what do you how do you see this case going? It's pretty much over already, Megan, because the judge, Judge Engeron, ruled via summary judgment that the fraud occurred. He's liable. Now this is more about damages than about whether he did it. There are some other measures that they're going to have to deal with. But for the most part, this case has already been decided. It's just how bad it's going to be for Trump. And now this week, Trump's children are going to have to start testifying.

And this really bothers Trump deeply because his business is himself. This is something he cares about more than you could even say the criminal cases because it strikes at the heart of who he is. And so that's why he shows up to court and he lashes out against this judge, which is really not a smart move because the judge is the decision maker. There's no jury here. And the reason why there's no jury is because Trump's own lawyer, Alina Haba, didn't check the box for a jury trial. So he has only his own team to blame for it. But in the end, I think it's going to go poorly for Trump. I think he'll probably get fined the maximum amount, $250 million. This is about inflating the value of your assets, including, by the way, his apartment in New York. It's one thing to say, hey, it's a rounding error or we're just estimating it

wrong. Well, when you're estimating your apartment being three times the size of the actual size, that's that's fraud. So that's what they're saying. You can't do this to get bigger bank loans. You can't do this to get bigger insurance policies and at the same time deflating your property values like they've done with Mar-a-Lago to get better tax rates. Because for Mar-a-Lago, they estimated their property's worth between 18 and 28 million. And the judge used that figure. And it's so upset Trump. And Trump was pissed off at the judge for it. But then the judge was like, hey, I'm basing my estimate on your own figures that you gave to the Palm Beach County property appraiser. So this is

why he's on trial. And I think it's going to be a negative ruling for him when the damages verdict comes out. I think we're going to reach another point of agreement here, Mike. Do you also predict it's going to be a negative ruling for Donald Trump by this judge? Of course it is. But I think I need to correct a couple of things. I don't think that there's not a jury trial because Elena Haba didn't check the box. I think this is a New York civil enforcement matter by the attorney general's office where there's not an option for a jury, which is a head scratcher to me because that seems to violate the Seventh Amendment to the U.S. Constitution because this Tish James is seeking

$250 million in damages. I don't know how you can see $250 million in damages and not have a jury under the Seventh Amendment to the Constitution. And also on the valuation of Mar-a-Lago, you know this better than anyone, you're down there, Dave, but I thought that there is a law that the property assessment can't go up more than a certain percentage each year. And that's why Mar-a-Lago under the assessor's value is like $18 million. But as you know, a tennis court at Mar-a-Lago is worth more than $18 million. The property down there is extremely expensive. You have prime real estate on the intercoastal waterway to the ocean. I think that to say that that's only worth $18 million in this fraud case is silly. There's a difference between how your property is assessed by the tax

collector and what you pay for property taxes versus what it's actually worth. How about that, Dave? Yes. Well, there's a deed restriction on Mar-a-Lago. So you can't build high rises there. You're limited to how you can use the property. It has to be used as a social club, which is why you wouldn't get $1.5 billion on the open market for it. But point taken that it's definitely worth more than $28 million.

That is a beautiful property. But the reason why it's valued at $28 million, it's because Trump in 2020, his representatives asked the property appraiser's office to keep it at that amount. They wanted that lower figure because they could pay less in taxes. And so now when Trump is bashing Judge Ngarone for using that figure, I think that he's hoist by his own petard, to use a Shakespearean phrase from Hamlet. It's that that's a figure that he agreed with. And that's why he's on trial there is because on one side, he's saying, look how little the properties are worth for tax purposes, but look how much they're worth to get bank loans. And the fact that no one was hurt is really not a matter because in New York, you don't have to have a victim to be charged with fraud. And besides, you can actually.

I mean, that that I've had to say is an absurdity, like the as a lifelong New York stater, that law needs to change. It's absurd, but it's on the books and it's enforceable. And, you know, that's that's what the voters of New York have chosen. And Letitia James is an AG who's a true blue Democrat who would love to get Trump promised to get Trump as she was running for office a couple of times. And so this is where we are. I mean, she has the right to go after him because the law is what it is, Mike. And it looks to me like Judge Angeron, who already gave Trump a defeat in the summary judgment motion in large part, is now going to give him a second blow when he finds against him at the end of this case. However, Trump is scoring some points. I actually do think it's not totally foolhardy of him to go

out there and criticize this judge who's already, you know, the cake is baked. He knows he has no chance of persuading him. But what happened with Michael Cohen on the stand this week was kind of interesting. And I heard both sides arguing about Michael Cohen. But when I saw that Tish James came out and said, well, you know, he's not our star witness. Then I knew I knew exactly how badly it had gone for her. Right. You don't have the A.G. saying things like that unless it went terribly for her. So, Michael Cohen, do you want to tell us what happened, Mike, or would you like us like me to summarize it? You may want to summarize it. Okay. So here's what happened. Michael Cohen, who is Trump's former fixer, was like his conciliary because he was more than a lawyer. He was like,

I don't know, his henchman. I mean, he would just do whatever Trump wanted him to do. He was, he took the stand, but this is a guy who's already convicted felon. He's served time. And so that's never ideal for any prosecutor or any lawyer bringing this guy to the stand. And in this case, AG Letitia James and her people, I'm sure weren't too thrilled about Michael Cohen's status as a convicted felon. So he gets up there and takes the stand. And, um, he tries to say first, I have it in front of me, stand by, that Trump had asked him to increase the total assets based on a number that Trump arbitrarily chose. Like, you gotta get my assets up

so I can get this bank loan. Then on Wednesday, this is, yeah, last week, he gave combative testimony in the face of cross-examination after he had implicated Trump, as I just stated, saying he told me to increase the assets. And he said, okay, again, that Trump had directed him to reverse engineer financial statements to increase his net worth. So same Tuesday and Wednesday, he's going after Trump saying he's a bad guy. He told me to do bad stuff. Then Trump attorney Alina Habak pressed Cohen about earlier testimony he had given that contradicted those two statements. In particular, he gave testimony,

sworn testimony in 2019 in front of Congress. And when he was asked whether Trump at that time had directed him to inflate numbers for Trump's personal statements. He said, not that I recall. No. Then Alina Haba, Trump's lawyer said, oh, well, that doesn't seem entirely consistent with what you just told this court on Tuesday and Wednesday. And Trump admitted that he had been lying in his testimony back in 2019 before Congress. Oh, it's a record scratch. All right. Already, this is bad. Letitia James is sitting in the pews thinking, my God, no, by the with the rest of the audience. She's not actually trying the case. After lunch, another Trump attorney pressed Cohen further on that deceitful congressional testimony. And Cohen over the lunch break changed his testimony, now saying that earlier testimony actually was not false. And then Trump's lawyer said, so Mr. Trump never asked you to inflate the numbers on his financial statement.

And Cohen's now answer was correct. So he's, I know. So he's going with, first he says, he told me to do it. Then they say, you didn't say that at your 2019 congressional testimony. Then he says, well, I was lying then. Then he comes back on the stand and says, actually, I was lying just when I said I was lying then because actually he never did tell me to do it. I mean, it's this guy, he can't even keep his lies straight. And that is what led Trump to abruptly leave the courtroom and declare victory outside the courtroom, saying the witness just admitted that we won the trial, that he never asked me to do any of this, that he did it. And, you know, no one's going to trust Michael Cohen. That's when Trish Letitia James came out and said, oh, he's not our main witness. It's not our main witness, but the judge did not strike Cohen's testimony. The judge did not rule in Trump's favor on this point, Mike, because he said there's a mountain of evidence

that supports the idea that you, like a mob boss, didn't have to give the order directly. You could do it with your eyes. You could do it with a wave of a hand. I'm giving this judge a better accent than he actually has. And when they asked for a verdict in their favor, he said, absolutely denied. So what do you make of Michael Cohen's role, his recurring role, frankly, in Trump's legal troubles, Mike? I think Michael Cohen may have realized that, oh, crap, the statute of limitations is like five years for perjury to Congress. And this 2019 testimony, we're in 2023. Crap, I could be charged for perjury to Congress. So maybe I should fix that. So I think Michael Cohen's testimony was disastrous for Tish James. It just shows that the wheels have fallen off the clown car in this New York fraud case.

And let's just step back and remember this. How is it fraud for a businessman to pay back sophisticated Wall Street banks in full on time as agreed with interest? I'm still trying to get my head around this idea that somehow these sophisticated Wall Street banks were defrauded by President Trump. And I'm trying to get my head around the fact that somehow the public was defrauded by these transactions between these sophisticated Wall Street banks and Trump. Well, and he also had disclaimers in all of his loan applications and his financial statements, Dave, saying, do your own homework, you know, kick the tires on your own. These are my representations, but you've got to figure it out for yourselves. And these were not podunk ma and pa investors. These were it was, you know, Citibank. It was

huge banks that have due diligence teams that and this is why they're not complaining. They understand perfectly well that they were not victimized by Trump. Well, first, as we discussed, the law doesn't require there to be victims. But secondly, you could say that they were victimized because had they had accurate numbers, they wouldn't have given Trump as favorable a rates as they got. They would have made more money. So in that sense, they were victimized. Plus, the disclaimers that he gave were pretty vague. It wasn't like he said, hey, these are fraudulent numbers. We're making them up. It was it reminded me when I went after Miss Cleo years ago.

Remember the Jamaican Shango Shaman late night psychic? Miss Cleo? What'd she do? Well, I was the guy who took her down. That was my claim to fame. I don't like Dave anymore. No, we used to call him all the time, Mike. Remember that?

Call me now. Miss Cleo late at night. Well, on the screen, it would say, we're for real. We're psychics. We're for real. On the bottom, it would say for entertainment only. And that reminds me of Trump's disclaimers. It's like this little disclaimer.

It's kind of vague. That doesn't undo all the alleged fraud that's out there. So that's why, I mean, he's going to lose this case. It's nothing more than the fact that you've got a judge who clearly, by the fact that he said, what was the term you use when absolutely denied? Right. When a judge tells you absolutely denied as opposed to denied, you know, you're in a lot of trouble. Yeah. So put it in perspective, like what? Why? Because Trump does clearly care about this case very much. He does not have to be there. And he's showing up two out of his kids, two out of his three kids are showing up. I know Ivanka is showing up, too. She's been ordered to give

testimony, though she was released as a defendant. She's coming next week. So, I mean, as a practice, I read the penalties that he's facing here and they're absolutely draconian. I mean, he's going to he's not going to be able to do business at all. They're saying they want to permanently prevent Trump and his sons from running any New York companies that judge anger anger on already stripped the Trumps of control over their signature New York properties. We talked about that once before they want $250 million. And I don't know that Trump has $250 million. I know he says he's a billionaire and so on, but that's, that doesn't mean he's liquid and can has $250 million. I know he says he's a billionaire and so on, but that doesn't mean he's liquid and can pay $250 million.

So Dave, what do you think the stakes are here? They're huge. This is a big reason why Trump's so upset. And there's talk that perhaps he could put the company in Ivanka's name if she's not in the end part of the final judgment because she's not named as a defendant. She was dropped from the case, as you correctly noted. Or he could set up shop in Florida where he lives now. He's a resident there. But this will really strike to the heart of the Trump organization. This is really

damaging to him. And you're right. I'm not sure he's liquid enough to pay a $250 million fine. I wonder if that could come from his supporters around the country who were eager to pay for his election defense when the money didn't really go for election defense. So we'll see what happens. But there's no doubt this is very potentially damaging for him, even though it does not involve potential incarceration. Mike, he clearly cares about this one. To the outside world, it may feel like his freedom's not in jeopardy, but his businesses, the thing that made him famous is right. This businessman in New York, he's declared bankruptcy before I was in New York. When it happened, they had those little coffee cans at your local coffee kiosk kiosk with like a help Trump as a joke because he was he

declared bankruptcy, but he was still a millionaire. It was kind of a you know, it was a business decision. In any event, is there any chance that when Trump runs for office in November 2024, as a result of this case, he's not only going to be a potentially convicted felon, but a bankrupt one? I don't know if you can discharge fraud damages in bankruptcy. So, I mean, this might be a case that has to get resolved by the Supreme Court of the United States as well on constitutional grounds. First of all, this judge just entered summary judgments before the trial even began when there's conflicting evidence about the valuation of Mar-a-Lago. He just said, there's no conflicting evidence. I mean, this judge is such a goofball. He couldn't even pretend to be fair. He couldn't just wait

until the end of the trial to rule how he was going to rule. He did it at the beginning of the trial because he's a goofball. He's a partisan hack. And then, like we discussed, there's no jury here when you're seeking $250 million in damages. So I don't know how that passes muster under the Seventh Amendment. So there are some clear constitutional issues. Even if New York law is as screwed up as Dave says it is, I think that you might have a problem with the U.S. Constitution. It almost certainly is having practiced law in New York for a long time. Yes, I my money is on. It is as screwed up as Dave suggests. Stand by because

there's much more happening in Trump world and elsewhere. We're going to pick up a couple of other cases, non-Trump related right after the break. They're so pretty. That would be my ex-boyfriend. The five of swords is next to him, and that means that he is away. Yep. Did you think Cleo wasn't going to see that? Oh, I knew you were. Oh, you go, girl.

Dave. Good for Danny. Hey, hats off to my team. That actually was Debbie Murphy, of course, Canadian Debbie, who found Miss Cleo, who you put out of business, a tone, sir, a tone. Look how she helped that young woman with her boyfriend problems.

Right. The thing about Miss Cleo, and kudos to Debbie for finding that, is that she was a Jamaican Shango shaman psychic who is neither Jamaican nor a Shango shaman psychic who is neither Jamaican nor Shango Shaman psychic. Everything was a fake. Is her name Cleo? No, that was her stage name. It was Uri Del Harris. Spectacular. Not guilty. Love it. See, see, Mike, Dave has done some good in the world. OK, I want to finish up with one Trump thing before we move on to a couple of others. And that is the gag order. He's been gagged in the New York state case that we

just discussed to about his business. Whatever the judge doesn't want him making fun of the judge's law clerk who's pretending to be a judge sitting right next to Judge Erdogan. I don't care that much about that one. Trump's not really listening. He's getting fined five thousand and ten thousand. Good luck to that guy if he tries to put Trump in jail as he's threatening. Not going to happen. But the one in the D.C. federal case is more interesting, Mike. So the January 6th case brought by Jack Smith in in D.C. about the alleged insurrection, not to be mistaken with the federal case about the documents at Mar-a-Lago. The one in D.C. is being tried by Judge Chutkin, who really doesn't like Trump. That's been clear. She's been very, very, very hard on all J6 defendants. And she's

implemented a gag order on him that even now the ACLU has stepped in to challenge as in violation of the First Amendment, that his right to speak and the public's right to hear him. So what is happening with that gag order and what's your opinion of it? Yeah, just a side note, Judge Chuck can even deny the ACLU's ability to file an amicus brief. So she just doesn't want to hear it at all. So this Obama D.C. judge, Tanya Shukin, has teamed up with this Biden special counsel, Jack Smith, to put this unconstitutional gag order on a criminal defendant. If there is anyone in America who needs the First Amendment right to speak out, it is a criminal defendant. And to speak out against the prosecutor, against the judge, against the court staff, against the process. That is clearly protected

by the First Amendment. This is an illegal prior restraint on President Trump's First Amendment rights. The First Amendment protects Americans, including criminal defendants, not the government, including Jack Smith's bruised ego. The Sixth Amendment guarantees the criminal defendants' right to a fair trial, not Jack Smith's right to a fair trial, not Jack Smith's right to a fair trial. And the local criminal rule to which Jack Smith and Judge Tanya Shutt can cite, I think it's 57.7, talks about protecting the accused, the defendants. And so they started doing these gag orders on these criminal defendants with Roger Stone. And this is a very dangerous precedent.

They're saying they're trying to do this so they can protect witnesses from intimidation. There are federal criminal statutes on the books right now for obstruction of justice, including witness intimidation. So if they think President Trump is intimidating witnesses or intimidating court staff or intimidating the prosecutor, charge him under the criminal statute. But don't put this unconstitutional prior restraint on his First Amendment rights. What do you make of it, Dave? I have to disagree with my friend, Mike. Judge Chutkin implemented a partial gag order. She said that if Donald Trump wants to Criticize the Biden administration

And call this a political persecution He can do so He just can't intimidate witnesses He can't go after and start attacking prosecutors And the judge Because you do so, you put people's lives at risk And look, this is not unprecedented SBF, Sam Bankman Freed

Is also subject to a gag order Roger Stone, as Mike said, was subject to one. And look, I've never seen any criminal defendant in my jurisdiction use such inflammatory language. And I can tell you that if anyone did, they would be in jail. The fact is, is that Judge Shutkin stayed her limited order to allow Trump to appeal. And then only after he attacked Mark Meadows, an important witness in his social media posts, then it was re-implemented. So he's been given a lot of the benefit of the doubt because he's a former president running for president again. And I think this gag order strikes the right balance here. All right. So you mentioned Sam Bankman

Freed. I wanted to touch on that case, too, because that's expected to go to the jury, I think, today, Wednesday. He's been tried for conspiracy to commit several versions of fraud, wire fraud, mail fraud, you name it, which has a little bit less of an, of a legal burden than proving just fraud than making it just a pure fraud case. It's these are conspiracy counts to commit fraud. The star witness, but there've been a few of his top emissaries within his crypto company. FTX was his ex-girlfriend, uh, Caroline Ellison, and she took the stand and blamed it all on him. And basically what he's accused of doing is having this crypto exchange FTX and this hedge fund investment firm called Alameda. And his girlfriend was running Alameda and Alameda

wasn't making very good investments. Things were going south as the crypto market was deeply troubled. And instead of just being honest about that and giving investors bad news, they started borrowing funds from FTX and the crypto exchange. That's a no, no. And apparently there was a big meeting. She testified about it in Hong Kong. She held it with her friends. She looks about 14 to think of this woman hosting a big meeting of all the Alameda hedge fund people saying to them, um, the shit hit the fan and we kind of had to borrow some money from FTX. And then some of the FTX people wanted their money back and we don't have it to give. So that's bad. Anyway, she's blaming it all on Sam saying this is all Sam's idea. This is his vision. And that's pretty good testimony for the prosecution, Dave.

His lawyers are painting him as a hapless kind of doofus who didn't know what he was doing, wasn't committing fraud so much as negligent management of a business. Do you think there's any chance this jury is going to buy that? No, and I don't think he helped himself on the stand. He came across as arrogant and a doofus. I mean, he was asked to read something and he used like an infomercial voice, you know, and it really came across like a Miss Cleo voice, right? Exactly. Came across that he just wasn't taking it that seriously. I mean, these are serious charges. And then he tried to conflate what he did with just margin trading, which is where you borrow funds to trade. But that conflate what he did with just margin training, trading,

which is where you borrow funds to trade. But that's not what he did. He was taking from a county wasn't allowed to take from. It wasn't really margin trading. And when they when they went after him on that on cross-examination, he pulled a Bill Clinton and was like, well, it depends on what the definition of is is type of thing. And it's not going to go well before the jury. I think he's headed for a conviction. You know, the judge, Mike, said something like I can't remember what the phraseology was, but something to the effect of part of the problem here is Mr. Bankman Freed has a unique way of answering the questions. And that does telegraph. And he was annoying, according to the lawyers and the journalists watching it. That doesn't bode well for the jury

to like him, where you can see the judge. I mean, the judge is so irritated he has to make a comment like that. The other thing is, apparently on direct examination, he was loquacious. He was giving long answers, but they were reasoned and they had a normal story arc to them. And then as soon as he got on cross, it was, I don't remember. I don't remember. I have no idea. I can't remember anything. He went right to, I mean, you tell me, does any jury buy that when somebody remembers everything on direct and then forgets it all when cross-examination starts? I mean, this guy is a total scumbag and I am pretty confident, very confident that the jury is going to hate him and it's not going to end well for him. I think you're right. And I think it's going to be a pretty quick verdict. He could be in jail for

20, 30, 40 years. I mean, realistically, he could he could easily get a very hefty sentence. So we'll see. And then we'll have to deal with his his parents who are also taking the money, knowing about the problems with the company. OK, Last but not least Israel, it's being accused as it has been since it began fighting back after the terrorist attack on it. Now of war crimes. I mean, repeatedly, some people are using that word, those words against Israel, but today the news is being dominated by an airstrike that happened yesterday in northern Gaza in the area of a large refugee camp. They were targeting a Hamas command and tunnel network that, as far as I can tell, is not in dispute. It was right there. And the Hamas and related

officials say many were killed and wounded. Once again, we have no idea what the truth is because Hamas is a terrorist organization, like taking your death numbers from ISIS. But undoubtedly, some number of innocents or at least civilians were killed. Israel's military says it struck them, including a commander who helped plan the October 7th terrorist attack on Israel. And also, they effectively targeted those terror tunnels right underneath it, collapsing them and bringing them down. Wolf Blitzer had an Israeli military spokesperson on and pressed him saying, you knew there were innocent civilians there.

The IDF spokesperson said, this is the tragedy of war. We told them move South. And Blitzer said, you decided to drop the bomb anyway. The spokesman said, we're doing everything we can to minimize civilian deaths. Sadly, the terrorists are hiding among civilians. Ian Bremmer and others now all over Twitter saying it's a war crime, Mike, but this is a war crime, clear, plain and simple. Do you agree? I want these people to hear this clearly. They can go to hell. Israel just faced the worst terrorist attack imaginable. We had over 1,300 Israelis murdered, 31 Americans murdered. There are over 200 hostages that Hamas still has. They kidnapped, raped, tortured, and murdered women, children, babies, the elderly, and the disabled. There is a report that Hamas

killed a husband and raped the wife while they baked the baby alive in the oven. So I do not want to hear anything from any of these terrorist sympathizers. The only thing Gazans should be thankful for is that Israel has shown so much restraint because Hamas is using Gazans as human shields. Hamas does not give a damn about Gazans. They're committing war crimes, and Israel is well within its rights, clearly within its rights to respond. And Gaza is lucky that Israel has not wiped it off the face of the damn map. You know, David, it is a war crime to use human shields. Nobody talks about nobody.

They go right to, oh, Israel. You know, they don't talk about Hamas's daily war crimes. Exactly. And Megan, I want to thank you and Mike for being so strong and combating this misinformation with facts. You've been doing it for some time now. You know, the death count was yesterday, according to Hamas, was 400. And now today it's 50. This is what happens when you depend on an international terrorist group for your facts, for your facts, for your information. The numbers will get revised.

And look, no one wants any loss of innocent life, Israeli or Palestinian. But you are right. When it comes to international law, there is an international humanitarian law treaty. Article 58A actually says that parties to a conflict are required to remove the civilian population, individual civilians and civilian objects under their control from the vicinity of military objectives. So Hamas purposely locates their military targets under hospitals and in civilian areas. And it's Israel who gets blamed when they try to send in troops and do anything but have wholesale massacres. They try to target and pinpoint the military. And sometimes, sadly, the innocent Palestinians get to be our casualties of war.

And that's awful. And no one wants that. But that's the blame Hamas. Hamas puts them in harm's way. So if there is an international war crime, it's on Hamas, not on Israel. I got to spend a minute asking about what's happening on the college campuses and in some instances, public protests on the streets off of the college campuses. We played last week what happened to this Jewish student at Harvard as he happened to walk by the quote die in that these pro-Palestinian students were hosting.

It wasn't enough for them to host their die in in support of what happened to Israel. They actually chose to harass this Jewish student. We played what we had of the tape, but now more of it from a different angle. And right before the piece we played has been released, showing them physically laying hands on the guy and attacking him. Watch this. Mike, we've seen them bring in the cops, consult with the FBI in and Cornell, where that guy was just arrested. Some 21 year old student was arrested for those disgusting death threats against Jews. They are saying slit their throats. Turns out to be some engineering student. How about this? This is also a crime. I would say this. This is outrageous that it is just blatant open season on Jewish Americans all over the country, particularly on college campuses. And I would say this to the Biden Justice Department, to Kristen Clark,

who is the assistant attorney general for the Civil Rights Division. Where the hell are you, Kristen? The Civil Rights Division has put out like 26 press announcements since October 7th, since Israel's most horrific terrorist attack imaginable. Not one of those. Zero of those 26 have dealt with these clearly illegal, under federal law, it is illegal. These are hate crimes that they are targeting Jewish people around America, including Jewish students on college campuses. Not one statement has been put out on this by the Civil Rights Division of the Justice Department. Where the hell is the Biden Justice Department on these anti-Semitic attacks across the country, including on college campuses? What about it, Dave? Well, that video you show was so troubling. That kid was not attacked because he was Israeli. He was not showing an Israeli flag. He was attacked because he was Jewish. And if the administration at Harvard, my alma mater,

does not act, then shame on them because anti-Semitism is thriving on college campuses. And it's in part enabled because of weak administrators who are so scared to stand up to thugs like this. That is outrageous what you just showed. And as far as the Biden administration, look, I can't speak to Chris and Clark because I'm not as familiar with it as Mike is, but I can tell you that President Biden has really been strong. His statements have been 100% on point. He has shown his support to Israel since this has happened in such a strong way that it looks like he's losing support amongst Arab constituents in Michigan. It could hurt his chances for reelection. So I'm hopeful that cooler heads will prevail and we will stand with our ally, our only democracy in the Middle East prevail and we will stand with our ally or only

democracy in the Middle East. And we'll do it on both sides of the aisle. I know he's under increasing pressure from I don't even know about the progressive flank, the progressive woke flank of his party. It's hard to identify who's falling in, but we know it's, you know, some some constituents who are sort of the wokesters of the party trying to push him to be more pro Palestinians. So far, he's not going there. Mike and Dave, such a pleasure. What a great hour, you guys. Thanks so much for being here.

Thank you. Thank you, Megan. OK, we're going to be right back with Maureen Callahan. And there is so much to go over. Really looking forward to that. She's live here with me in studio. Don't go over. Really looking forward to that. She's live here with me in studio. Don't go away. Brittany, the Beckhams, Alicia Keys. There's so much to get to in our world outside of hard politics. And joining me now here in the studio is Maureen Callahan. Maureen is one of my favorite

writers and you can find her work at the Daily Mail. She's always worth clicking on. Always. Even if I don't think I'm interested in what she's written on, I click on Maureen's article and I realize her column that I am. So, so great to have you here. It's so great to be here finally. Thank you, Megan. Oh, my pleasure. Okay. So there is a lot to go over. I would like to kick it up off where I left off with our last panel, and that is the arrest of this guy for the anti-Jewish death threats on Cornell campus. The guy's been arrested. His name is Patrick Dai, D-A-I, 21-year-old engineering student, a junior. He's from Pittsburgh, New York. He posted messages on this

online campus chat thing like, fuck Israel, you should slit the Jews' throats. He personally threatened to kill Jews. He said he was going to bring an assault rifle to campus and on and on it went. Now his parents are speaking to the New York Post saying he was depressed. He was severely depressed and that's what led him to do it. I don't know, Maureen, whether he was depressed. I don't really, Maureen, whether he was depressed. I don't really care whether he was depressed or not. That kind of rhetoric actually can get people spun up. Maybe he was planning on doing it himself. Maybe he wasn't, but it's just probably the most extreme example of what we're seeing on so many college campuses right now. It is. And it's,

I was having this conversation last night. Actually, I find it all the more shocking it's happening in New York, a heavily Jewish city. I find it shocking the level of anti-Semitism that has sprung up in just the past few weeks that now feels emboldened to be out in the open. I was listening the other night to a student who had been behind the barricaded door at another university in New York City. Cooper Union? Yes. She was saying something that I found had been left out of a lot of reportage, which was the Jewish students who were taking refuge in this room got in this room, closed the door, and then realized the door did not lock from the inside. The door only locked from the outside. So here are these pro-Palestinian agitators coming after them. And you can only imagine the thoughts that are going through their minds. All they have to do is lock the door, set a fire. I mean, nothing is off the table right now. And it feels a little bit,

it's a low bar to say it's heartening that this student has been arrested. Yeah. One of many who have given voice to this. Who knows if they even would have sent the cops to go look into this if finally they hadn't gotten loud at Cornell. The Jewish students there have been through it these past few weeks. Like Cornell's done absolutely nothing. I mean, they've really let these Jewish students, you know, fend for themselves. Don't go to the dining hall. You might not be safe. That's not the answer. You will go safe. You will, you will be safe. I, as the president of university will eat there every night myself to make sure that you are safe. And I will bring in, I will spend endowment money to bring in security, to bring in police.

It's not you stay home. So great. Okay. They arrested the guy who was making actual death threats, but I'm not exactly ready to take out my violin for the administrators. Nevermind this guy. What did you say, Steve, that we have that sound bite Maureen was talking about of the, of one of the girls who was in Cooper union. Oh, okay. Okay. Let's play software. These are innocent civilians in Israel. Fuck you. Fuck you. Fuck you. You know what I'm just realizing? I'm pretty sure that's my old apartment building. I'm pretty I lived in a building that was mostly Orthodox. We were like one of the only Gentiles. We were so well treated and well loved. But we felt like honorary Jews. We went to so many Shabbat dinners. But I recognize the church across the street. And there's there's a very high Jewish population on the Upper West Side. That's where they were. They're thugs. They're women. It's usually a term we associate with men. They're thugs. They're disgusting. And it's happening, like you point out, in a Jewish enclave. I mean, everywhere. It's terrifying. I mean, to see the stars of David spray painted on homes in Paris and New York, it's shocking. I was listening this morning to one of the New York Times' podcasts, the daily

coverage of this war. And they devoted half an hour to talking about how unfair it was of Israel not to give the Palestinians and the world at large, basically their playbook for how they're going to retaliate, how they're going to try to recover these 200 hostages that, let's be real, Hamas is using as human shields, to see these protesters, many of whom in New York City, identify as non-binary, LGBTQ+, waving the Palestinian flag, when this is a group that would throw you off the nearest roof at the first available opportunity, is mind-blowing. And to your point about the universities and their spineless reaction to this anti-Semitism, all you have to do is imagine any other cohort threatened in such a manner, any other minority cohort and the reactions on these left leaning campuses.

They say that the way to determine whether it's anti-Semitism because you can criticize the Israeli government all you want. I mean, many in this country have been doing that very robustly for the past year plus, as they've had this massive judicial dispute over there, the internal Israeli politics. Many people have been critical of Israel, of Netanyahu. That's not anti-Semitism. This is, and they say the definition is, one of the definitions of anti-Semitism is if it's reserved for this group, if you wouldn't be getting into these criticisms, if it were another group, then it's anti-Semitism. And since when, you know, I was talking to the other day about 9-11 and we went and we bombed the hell out of Afghanistan.

Nobody was going into Afghani villages and saying, reporting live on the number of civilians who have been taken out by the U.S.'s latest bomb. It was over here to bomb them to smithereens. We're sad if civilians get caught in the crossfire. But this is about making sure the people who tried to kill us can come back and try again. You know, and that's what Israel's saying, but totally different standard. Totally different standard.

And the lack of moral clarity, you know, again, goes unremarked upon in most of the media. It was over two weeks before Israel began its incursion. Over two weeks. That shows remarkable restraint. It says a lot about the power of American foreign policy. before Israel began its incursion. Over two weeks, that shows remarkable restraint. It says a lot about the power of American foreign policy that they did hold back. The lack of moral clarity in the immediate aftermath of the Hamas terrorist attack,

when you saw leftist groups in this country begin to co-opt the powerliders that were used to swoop in, when you saw the unbelievable footage of women being kidnapped, that poor tattoo artist who we now know was beheaded in the back of a pickup truck. And the immediate reaction on the left in America is this is Israel's fault. This is all Israel's fault. They kind of a pickup truck. And the immediate reaction on the left in America is, this is Israel's fault. This is all Israel's fault. They kind of had it coming. The same group that's been lecturing us in particular, let's talk about the women, right? They want us to believe they're pro-woman, that they would always stand up for women's rights.

And they're like, there's no proof of rapes. So there is, there are tons of proof of rapes. Okay. So there is, there are tons of proof of rapes. There's firsthand eyewitness testimonials. There's women with bloody pants who then got their brains blown out. Um, we could go down the list, but that's not good enough for them. I don't know what is proof. If you don't, if, if one person coming and saying, I saw the woman get raped next to me, isn't proof what is, but how about murder? Is that that does that get you upset? Because there's a lot of women murdered. That's not good enough either. And I saw you raising this point. It's a very good one about Alicia Keys, who I think we are on the same page, is lying about her initial support. And I'm sure it's sustained for Hamas. She posted that ridiculous photo of

herself days after the terrorist attack. And it was before Israel had really engaged in its response. So you can't even say here it is that it was about, oh, they were killing too many civilians. She's wearing what the Palestinian flag colors. And she posted about how she was one thing she really was looking at trying was paragliding paragliding. And then and she had somebody post it on two of her social media sites. It was like Insta and TikTok, two different platforms. And then, of course, was forced to take it down when the backlash started to roll in. Now she's claiming, I just like paragliding. What do you get off my case? I'm very pro JewishJewish people and pro-Israel. No,

you misunderstood me. Oh, please. The four side-eye emojis next to I'm thinking of paragliding, dot, dot, dot, dot, dot. She was all but smirking in that photo. I still am shocked that she has not been canceled by major corporations. She is the voice of all state. When you see those commercials, that is the voice you're hearing. That friendly, velvety voice. She should lose that sponsorship. She should lose that job. I don't understand. And then to have Guy Osieri, who is a very prominent Israeli-American, he's like one of the biggest music managers in the business, has worked with Madonna forever, U2 forever, two very always pro-Israel acts, come out and allow her to hide behind his skirt and say, oh, this is not the Alicia that you think. She loves the Jewish people. She's pro-Israel. You're misunderstanding. It's like,

who are you going to believe? Mirror your lying eyes. Right. Who the hell wears Palestinian colors all over them and posts about wanting to paraglide within days of the Hamas terror attack using paragliders and says, oh, gee, I just I didn't mean anything by it. Bullshit. Everyone's letting her get away with it because she once did a concert in Israel. Well, I mean, we're going to go down to facts like that. She's married to an Egyptian man. She or to a Muslim man. She has a son named Egypt. Like you could make the argument either way. If you're just going to go with her random appearances or associations, I'm going by what she posted. 100% and not for nothing. Then she took it down. Yeah. And she can't even make

her own statement. Have the courage of your convictions. If you feel emboldened enough to post something that incendiary that you know is going to be a flashpoint and quite likely, let's give her benefit of the doubt misunderstood, say, right? Then you should have the courage of your convictions to stand up and say, I am mortified that anybody would take it in this manner. I apologize. I stand strongly with the people of Israel. This was a terrorist attack. Women and babies were murdered and beheaded. There are old women who need medication who let's be real. They're being raped and tortured right now. And she she's she sits quietly and allows somebody else to clean up her mess. It's disgusting. Her statement she put out was so anodyne. It was like, I'm I'm against suffering of any kind.

Who isn't? Oh, profound. I'm really feeling it. Thanks for feeling their pain. But you've been pointing out it's not just Alicia Keys, the entire Hollywood crowd, for the most part, that's been lecturing us for years on women's rights, on you name it, all the woke causes, very quick to speak out if they see an injustice of any kind. Oddly silent right now, Maureen. It's shocking to me. It's shocking to me. It's why I feel this is so worrisome. Somebody said to me, you know, if the October 7th attack surprised you, if the level of anti-Semitism in the world surprised you, then you haven't really been paying attention. But I think I'm somebody who does pay attention, as you are somebody who pays deep attention. And still, I am shocked. Same. I did

not realize it was this deep and this widespread. And this abiding and this waiting for a sort of opening in the ether to allow it to just spread and mushroom. And I suspect we will watch the Oscars this year and there will be nary a celebrity with a ribbon or whatever sort of accoutrement. Think about the aftermath of the Charlie Hebdo attacks in Paris. And they all were adorning themselves and we stand with free speech and blah, blah, blah, blah. I mean, again, this was a terrorist attack. You pointed out one of your columns, Boko Haram. Boko Haram, bring back our girls. There was no moral hand-wringing about the geopolitical torment

that must have brought this terrorist attack upon these young women. It was the West uniting. And, you know, again, our fearless celebrities saying, this is wrong. This is an atrocity. Bring these girls and women home. Bring back our girls. Bring back our girls. You know, the moral bastions of TikTok. Hashtag bring back our girls. Instead, now it's the effective equivalent of tearing down the posters of the hostages, which is what you know a lot of these people are cheering. Kylie Jenner

taking down her tweet in support of Israel. Again, in the hours after this horrendous attack, she tweeted something sympathetic toward them. No, she had to take it down. And then Amy Schumer, who is Jewish, has been saying all the right things. You know, like this is horrific. Look what happened to these poor women, these children, these innocents. And she's been getting so much shit, but she's standing her ground. She's like one of the only ones I can think of who's really like poured on. I don't care. Yeah. Jerry Seinfeld, Sasha Baron Cohen, you know, very few, very, very few. And it's Hollywood has always been a moral rot of hypocrisy.

You know, I think now we're just really seeing it. We're just really, really seeing it. That list of people who signed the other letter, right? Demanding an immediate ceasefire was very long too with some very well-known names. I mean, please, Alyssa Milano, right? It's awful. Wanda Sykes, okay, whatever. But Channing Tatum,

now I'm not allowed to watch Magic Mike. It's just like, it's amazing that people I'm not allowed to watch Magic Mike. It's just like, it's amazing that people would sign their name to something like that. And what's happening is it's morphing suddenly into, well, it's just an old, old conflict, you know, that goes back for thousands of years and Israel has done bad things. And the Palestinians were kind of forced to do some bad things as a result of the evil Israel. So everything needs to be quote contextualized. Yes. And that is how now this same crowd that was cheering within moments of the dead babies on October 7th is now trying to justify itself by saying, well, you know, look at the Israeli response. You know, that that's really what I'm upset with. And I know we know it's a lie. Bullshit. You cheered moments after the original attack.

All you have to do is listen to those who survived that attack on Israel on October 7th. There was an incredible story on 60 Minutes of a grandfather who was former IDF, who basically traversed miles and miles and miles to get to his family that was hiding in a safe house. And along the way, saved about three other lives. But when you, the unfathomable assault on civilians ripped from their homes in the middle of the night, when you think about the sophistication of this attack, you know, it took an ISIS level attack to an unthinkable level. And the next one will be even worse. It will be even worse. But one of the things about attacking people in their homes as they sleep is it takes them a minute or two to realize what's going on. They're still in that liminal state of, am I awake? Am I having a nightmare? What's happening? Is there somebody in my house? Does somebody have my child, my baby? The sophistication with which this was executed is,

I think, again, also an incredible failure of U.S. intelligence, of Israeli intelligence. There was a report in the Wall Street Journal today that the United States basically stopped spying on Hamas the minute the September 11th attacks happened and turned its focus purely to al-Qaeda. So there's a lot to be learned from this still, but I just cannot fathom anybody excusing, contextualizing what has happened. And we still don't know what will become of these 200 hostages. When you think about the Iran hostage crisis, I mean, that was the beginning of Nightline, right? It was every night, 11, 1130. What is going on with the hostages? What is the United States doing?

What is the world community doing? Will they be returned safely? Are they being treated humanely? It's blanket silence. And not to mention, I think it's the death toll of Americans in the attack that's already gone down is now over 30. It's the worst terrorist attack on Americans since 9-11. But these people pulling down the posters on the Upper West Side, totally ignorant of it, don't give a shit about it. Because you know what? They were in Israel. So F them. And yet there are some heroes emerging.

There are new videos every night. God bless the iPhone warriors who go out there and film those who are tearing down the posters because then we post their pictures online. They get identified and yes, they get fired and I'm totally fine with it. Fire their asses. You support terrorists, you should be fired. I keep

going back. I realize there have been a million cancellations that we could go back to. But Chris Harrison of The Bachelor really sticks in my craw of all the ones. This super nice guy. Right. He's not a controversial figure. One contestant on The Bachelorette had once attended an antebellum party like in the Deep South, you know, pretending that they were in the Deep South. And she wound up on the show. It turned into a huge thing. He just said, are we judging her by like the standards that we're using right now against people or by standards we used to, you know, when she did it just a few years ago, the things that it was different, right? Fired. He was the bachelor host. Like you thought of the bachelor

fired for that completely benign comment. And yet you've got these people out there, nothing. Nobody's getting canceled. It's all like my mind. It can't process how awful these people are and how they're not getting canceled. So I'm happy to see them fired. I don't care if they're famous or not famous, happy to assist in their terminations. They shouldn't be operating on Jews, delivering babies for Jews. Agreed. All that stuff. Can you imagine? Agreed. And I don't want them doing that stuff on me either. However, the good news is people like Pauly, the guy in Queens, right, who got after that guy the other night, the other day, who was like, I'm going to I'm going to litter the floor with you in a minute. You don't have the right to pull down those posters. You can say

what you want, but you can't pull those posters. Well, somebody caught up with our hero, Pauly, and asked him about what it's like to be a superstar now. And here's what he said. No, I'm not a superstar. I'm just a regular guy who didn't like what I saw. And it shouldn't be celebrated what I did. It should be normal.

Everyone should react like this shouldn't be a news story because someone doesn't like posters of murdered children and kidnapped children being taken down. This should be the norm, not the exception. What that guy was doing should be the exception. Look at that. That's New York for you. That is New York for you. That is common sense for you.

That is no bullshit for you. And like, he's humble too. You know, he doesn't want attention. He's not going to call himself a superstar. He wasn't looking to be made famous. Will he be the next bachelor? You think, is he seeing anyone asking for a friend? Let's see if we can find out. I love Polly. One of my, one of these days I'm going to, I'm going to get Polly on the show. It's my, my dream before we move off of the absence of, you know, forceful statements from these celebrities or in some cases, any statements, can we spend a minute on the king and queen of woke Harry and Meghan? Always. I mean, I I don't she's injected herself into every terrible story so she can look like the caring princess. Haven't seen it here, Maureen. Such a great point. Such a great point. Now, I think Megan's worst action among many was flying herself down to Uvalde in the aftermath of that shooting. Shooting, having herself photographed,

laying flowers, making it known that she brought food to people. Somebody who is completely unwelcome had no reason to be there. You know, grief like that is sacred and it's profound and nobody has use for you and your little Netflix crew. I find this fascinating as she's attempting her eight millionth relaunch, because maybe this time America will like her. Maybe this time we'll just get her special sauce. She's been extremely quiet and one can only wonder why. And they're saying she wants to run for office. So, OK, take a position. This is exactly the kind of thing on which a politician is going to have to take a position. But she won office. So, OK, take a position. This is exactly the kind of thing on which a

politician is going to have to take a position. But she won't. So why? Why won't she? Well, I think for one thing, she wants to be handed a seat, you know, much in the way Caroline Kennedy wanted Hillary Clinton's vacant Senate seat. I think she wants Dianne Feinstein's vacant Senate seat. She's that delusional. God help us. Right. So, you know, again, it's a low bar to clear to say I am against the murder of innocent civilians, women, children, the infirm, the elderly. I am against home invasions by terrorists who are cowards, who are going after the most vulnerable. But it's apparently too much of a flashpoint. It surprises me, too, given that her agent in charge of her rebrand is Ari Emanuel,

one of the most powerful Jewish men in Hollywood. But we've seen that that wing of the progressive party, you know, there's there's the Democrats and then there's the progressive wing. And then there's this woke piece of the progressive wing that has been pro Hamas. They just have been, you know, the BLM statements, the weird trans flag merged with the Palestinian flag. OK, have you done any homework? And she's part of it. So I can't help but think she's more in line with the BLM Chicago crew than she is with you and with me on this. Otherwise, it would be a no-brainer to put out a statement. You know, I saw in a Maureen Callahan column, Oprah, same. What about Oprah? Where's she? Yeah. Yes. Oprah, America's secular moral

leader. Oprah, who, as we now know from the Mitt Romney biography, was floating herself as a joint ticket. So somebody with the delusions of grandeur that she should be running the world, the woman who foisted the secret upon us, the woman who foisted Dr. Oz and Dr. Phil upon us, can't come down and make the moral determination that, again, is just so clear that this is wrong, that Hamas are terrorists. She put out something, right? Something vague, something lily-livered, something, you know, that was not going to off-put, I suppose.

And by the way, it was behind a paywall. So I remember trying to access this for my column and talking to my editor and going, this is behind a $35 paywall. I have to pay to hear Oprah denounce, ostensibly denounce Amos. to be contrasted with the actual future king and queen, the prince and princess of Wales, who said very simply, this is from your piece, quote, the horrors inflicted by Hamas's terrorist attack upon Israel are appalling. William and Kate utterly condemn them. Done. Great. And then they went on to say the Jewish nation has a right to self-defense. It's really not that hard, right? It's really, it's not that hard. It's not that hard. Yeah, but they won't because they're trying, I think they're trying to appease their woke mob

and they're part of it. I mean, in the case of the Sussexes, they're part of it. Okay, let's turn the page because I definitely am dying to discuss something much lighter with you, but it's been on my mind. I don't know if the audience has watched the Beckham documentary. I mean, using that term loosely, documentary,

but it's about David Beckham. I'm not into European quote football. Right. My daughter plays soccer here. I like that, but I don't know really many of the players. It's not my thing in the way it is over in the UK. But this guy, I didn't know I was interested in David Beckham until we were like, okay, everybody's talking about it. Let's watch it. And I think it's four episodes each or like an hour and a half. So it's a hefty investment of your time. And they do suck you right in. You're like, oh, look at this. I mean, they're beautiful. They're rich.

They're famous. It's like their beautiful homes are shown in the documentary or whatever. And so you're pulled in. Like, I'd like to see how they live. And I'd like to know, she doesn't say anything publicly ever, right? She's only known for her, you know, that face right there we're showing where she doesn't smile in any of her. Right. She's only known for her, you know, that face right there we're showing where she doesn't smile in any of her. Yeah. Right. So it kind of leads to an impression that maybe she's a bitch. I don't know. Dour, unhappy. What a surprise. She isn't.

But I said to you when you sat down on the set, I watched the thing. I'm like, I love this. This is so interesting to me. What a life. What a guy. And then I read your piece after I was like, I love this. This is so interesting to me. What a life, what a guy. And then I read your piece after I was like, I have been fooled again because I agreed with virtually all of your points in there about what was really going on. And the obvious, now that you pointed out, you know, I got sucked in Maureen, but the obvious massaging of the message and the skipping past scandals, I didn't even know about because they chose not to feature them. Exactly. Scandals that by the way, have been largely scrubbed from the internet. You can maybe find the one affair that was sort of the, the real corker that the UK press. That's all I thought there was. They made

a vague reference to it. They, then somebody had accused him. That's all I thought there was. Keep going. So there were, there were more than one, but the UK press, their libel laws are so stringent that they were only able to report on this one because she had video and text messages and all this corroborating evidence that he could not really sue for. I thought the Beckham documentary was fascinating. I too was like, I don't care about English football, you know, Beckham, he's fine, whatever. It really struck such a marrow. It was 90s nostalgia. It's a kind of global fame, you know, this coupling, the superstar at their height, they were sort of just this incredibly fascinating yet also tacky couple, you know, the purple thrones at their wedding and the

Beckingham Palace and all of that. And that is the documentary proceeds. You see, there's this other story. There's Victoria Beckham, who is actually keeping her family together. As David Beckham continually does this thing that is, I found, incredibly cruel and passive-aggressive where multiple times they would settle in another country for his work, for his job, get the children all enrolled in schools, and she's getting a little life going for all of them. And then he'll call and say, I'm switching teams and we're moving to another country. And she'll say, when? And he'll say, 12 hours. And this happens more than once. Right. And there are also moments where he's undercutting what she's saying. That moment, I found it strange in the

documentary where she's talking about how they were both working class. We have that. We have that. I'll tee it up and then you can take it. Yeah. This is SOT 11. Both of our parents work really hard. We're very working, working class. Be honest. I am being honest. What car did your dad drive you to school in? So my dad... No, one answer.

My dad... What car was it? It's not a simple answer because... What car did you get your dad to drive you to school in? It depends. No, no, no, no, no. Okay, in the 80s, my dad had a Rolls Royce. Thank you.

Door slam. That one was funny. It was great. But I thought it was so telling. Like he was outside listening to her one-on-one interview and he heard something he didn't like and that wasn't part of the narrative that he preferred. And so in he comes and he's grilling her like a prosecutor. It's like the OJ

trial. I would kill Doug if he did that to me. What kind of car? What kind of car? What kind of car? No, be honest. Yeah. A Rolls Royce, heaven forbid, you know. I want the truth. Yeah. She's keeping Brand Beckham together. She's just doing this little heavy lift over here, you know, but, and I found it fascinating too, because I always watch documentaries like that that have clearly been commissioned by the star involved and then sign on a director who's willing to cue to a particular narrative. Same with Harry and Meghan, where they still manage to leave in these telling details that clue the audience into what the editors and the filmmakers really think of these subjects. With the Harry and Meghan one, for me, it was the moment where she did that deep mocking curtsy. Yes. And he's looking on silent,

but with this very pained, humiliated expression. And she lifts herself up with this very self-satisfied smirk. And that was it. That to me was the damning, defining moment of that six hour. So true. You know?

And I feel the same thing was, was true with the Beckham documentary, even getting an insight into just his rampant OCD. Oh, it was crazy. And how insane it must be to live with him. Well, you can see how this person who achieved unbelievable success on the soccer field, football field, um, you know, had such success because he, like, uh, like a Kobe Bryant, he just outworked everybody. He just put way more time into it. Um, but he now in retirement from actually playing at least, what do you do with all that OCD, all that energy, all that lifetime of experience of doing something over and over and over and over what we saw. Yeah. I mean the scene in the kitchen where he's like scooping out the ashes and the candles and like placing everything back. And

then, and Victoria's looking on from the dining room and he's saying to her, well, where are you going? What are you doing? And she's going, I'm going to work. And he's like, work? What work? You know, like almost mocking her. Yes.

And then, well, he knew. He was like, oh, is it your fashion brand? And finally she's like, no, I'm getting a facial. And he's like, uh-huh. But it was almost like, oh, wow. Okay. Like that didn like, uh-huh. But it was almost like, oh, wow. Okay. Like that didn't make her look good. Nor did that Rolls Royce thing make her look good.

Right. And, you know, normally like Doug Brunt, my husband has been sitting in this chair and everything he said was he's just a sweet, loving man who would love to make me look good. He would never be doing daggers. Little jabs. Little jabs that you think aren't really leaving fingerprints or that if you were to respond to, you would look like you were overreacting. Yes. And that was the needle. I

think Victoria was trying to thread. I read that Beckham had been having dinner with Leonardo DiCaprio and said, I want to make a documentary about my life. Do you think Netflix would be interested? So, yes. Right. So, but this is his legacy play, right? This is enshrining the Beckham legend. That's what it should be called Beckham. My story. Yeah. Like first person. So we all, it's very disclosed, you know, as opposed to, it's not a documentary where the filmmaker really does go to wherever he or she wants to go. And the subject agrees that that's how this is going to go down. Right. And it's the documentarians take on the subject matter he or she is taking on. Not, you know, where you've been patted on the head. I like Fisher Stevens, who did it. Sure. But very clearly, everything in

there is meant to not upset the Beckhams. Yeah. Yeah. So it made for it's still made for an interesting viewing experience, I thought. Well, the other tell was, and I know that you noticed this too, but it jumped out at me. When he was traded, I think this is when he was traded to Spain, and he didn't want to leave Manchester United, the team that he had been drafted to when he was 17, whatever the proper word is. Right. But he got booted by the guy who runs that team. I think he thought Beckham was getting too big a head. So he let him go. So he needed to find another job, but that the abrupt, we're moving to Spain in 12 hours happened and it was jarring. And this led to the alleged affair because they made a big

deal of pointing out he stayed, he had to go to Spain. She stayed, she had two young ones in school. And he talks about, oh, well, you know, I was lonely. I was lonely. Um, but then he had to give a press conference when he got to Madrid and she flew over for it. And this is what he's done to his wife, who's been nothing other than supportive. She had to give birth to the one baby without him there because he was doing a photo shoot with J-Lo and Beyonce. Yeah. So she seems like she's a very even though she's a superstar in her own right. She's been very supportive of the guy. So she flies over for his press conference as he joins the Madrid team

and listen to what he says in SOT 13. I have always loved football. A mí siempre me ha gustado el fútbol. Of course, I love my family. Por supuesto, quiero a mi familia. But football is everything to me. Pero el fútbol es todo para mí gracias a la madrid

it's that said it all to me that clip i forgot about that clip she's sitting next to him oh yeah i love my family's great she's cool yeah they're great to have around. You know, they keep me occupied in my downtime. But football, football is everything. And, you know, I get that you kind of have to be that way to achieve a level of greatness. I think you kind of have to have that monomania. We see it in America with Tom Brady, who's the first to admit I wasn't the greatest born athlete. I just worked harder than everybody. But I think there's a similar parallel. That's a good point. Yeah. I hadn't drawn that, but you're absolutely right. He, and he lost his marriage because of it. Yeah. Because of football also being his true number one, or at least that's how it looks from

the outside. So he's in Spain. She's back in England trying to get the kids through their year of school. And then she will eventually join him in Spain. They, you know, they are in love. And she was commuting, by the way. Yeah, she was. Obviously, she's in that clip.

Yeah. However, this is when his alleged affair with their family assistant, their Abigail Finan. He and as you point out, there was all sorts of proof provided by her. He's always denied it, though didn't explicitly in this film. This is about as much as he said about it in Sat 12. There was some horrible stories that were difficult to deal with. It was the first time that me and Victoria had been put under that kind of pressure

in our marriage. Would you say that was the hardest time in your marriage? A hundred percent. It was the hardest period for us because it felt like the world was against us. And here's the thing, we were against each other if I'm being completely honest. So but unrevealed is, as you point out, there wasn't just the allegation

of the one affair. There were multiple allegations. And now that assistant has reportedly come out and said, when I was having an affair with him, I walked in and found him sleeping with some Spanish model like there's. Yeah. So that Victoria called her on the phone and said, find David for me. There was a party apparently in the suite and she goes and finds David and he's in bed with another model. And, you know, I think it's also just a particularly cruel betrayal when it's somebody who's in your home taking care of your children who becomes becomes something of a confidant. It feels very Arnold Schwarzenegger. It feels very Ben Affleck. It's that kind of betrayal that's often left to the women to explain to the children why

this trusted, beloved person is now no longer part of the family unit. That is so true. It's sad because I liked Beckham in watching it. Net, net. I liked it. Of course, that was the design. You know, the goal was to get me to like him. I do want to talk to you about one other piece of it. Oh, first, let me show you this. They end the film. I mean, the whatever documentary series with one of the last scenes is the two of them dancing. Yes. In front of their kids who are now grown. I thought this, I'm going to play it. Just watch.

Here's the two of them kind of dancing. When I watched the whole scene, okay, they got their moves. All I felt was uncomfortable. And like they were putting on this show for us. Like this did not seem genuine to me. No, look how disconnected they are. And I don't feel like these two, one of the sadnesses was, I don't feel like these two have anything close to the love affair that they had in the beginning. You know, life's thrown a lot at them. We've talked about some of the challenges and you do have to work hard. I mean, they have just as many challenges as any average Joe has in his marriage. And then 10 times more thanks to the fame and the money. work hard. I mean, they have just as many challenges as any average Joe has in his marriage.

And then 10 times more thanks to the fame and the money. I mean, imagine the number of women who threw themselves at David Beckham. And I'm sure she had tons of opportunities too. Sure. But is not accused of having acted on them. But one thing I really wanted to talk to you about, because we've talked about Meghan and Harry so many times before. You took issue with his complaints about the press. And I'll let you explain why I felt like we're watching it. These two are like the opposite of

Meghan and Harry because they actually were abused. They were abused. And I don't remember him running out to the cameras like for me and filing 25 lawsuits like that pair did. It's only years later now that he's about 50 that he is, I think, genuinely talking about trauma he felt at the hatred that came his way via the media, but really via the fans of England when he blew the World Cup game, a moment that is nicely documented in this piece. So talk about the press coverage and your feelings on that. It's interesting because I do think one of So talk about the press coverage and your feelings on that. It's interesting because I do think one of the things about the Beckhams that is admirable is they make no claims to never having wanted not to be famous. They both clearly wanted it and they both clearly enjoyed much of it. And they also came of age as extremely famous people right before the advent of social media.

So there was a lot more they could do to control their image and their narrative. And you see it even now to this day. And I think part of the fascination with the Beckhams too, is that David Beckham does have a lot of goodwill. He is an incredibly compelling character, a true rags to riches story. You know, I feel about him the same way I do sort of feel about Tom Brady, which is I may not really care for him or care much about his sport, but that kind of singular determination and focus and the refusal to be victimized by anything that happens to you in pursuit of that is a vanishing trait, I think, in American culture. It circles back to a little bit of what we were talking about earlier, where we're talking about the failure of the left or the

extreme woke to just condemn what Hamas is and just say the thing. And I kind of feel like this is a trait that may be vanishing with Gen X, that Gen X may be the last cohort that just says the thing, says what it is, and doesn't worry about whether it feels polite or politically correct, or it's hurting somebody's feelings. You just sort of say what it is and then deal with it. And I worry that that's a quality that we're losing in the national discourse. And I think it's going to be devastating if we do. That's the one upside of what's happening on these college campuses right now is they, I realize why they're doing it, but they're suddenly discovering their commitment to free speech. Yes. Has a real cost. Yeah. I mean, we do, we'll take the concession,

right? The circumstances under which they're offering it are obvious and absurd. But we'll take it if they're actually going to come over to our side and allow free speech now on college campuses and with professors in class and with students who say things that are not OK in the woke playbook. Great. We're going to be holding you to these promises. Guest speakers, guest anodyne guest speakers who suddenly find themselves disinvited because words equal violence.

Like federal judges out in Stanford or Michael Knowles or Matt Walsh or anybody from the Daily Wire. In any event, I think it's very interesting. You raised some good points about how they invited the press into their world very much so. Their wedding, they sold to OK Magazine. So it is tough to invite the press in and then complain. I wedding, they sold to OK Magazine. So it is tough to invite the press in and then complain. I mean, they've made hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars off of their relationship with the press. And then when they turn, it can be very jarring. But I do think prior to this, they weren't the whiners the Duke and Duchess of Duplicity have been. And so I give him a thumbs up on that.

I absolutely do too. I think it's refreshing. And I think that I thought, you know, it's so interesting. I thought the thing that they didn't touch on in the documentary, do you remember when Victoria Beckham tried to launch a reality show in America? I didn't remember that until your piece. Yeah. And it was fascinating. And it showed this other side of her where she had this like really dry, droll sense of humor. And, you know, it was sort of like, can they translate Bran Beckham to America, which they've always really been trying to do. But there's something for all of the things that they sort of paper over in the documentary. There is something sort of, it's sort of a kind of celebrity that, that again, like we're, we're, we're losing. We, we,

we've all seen behind the curtain. Yeah. Yeah. A lot. I will say this. She seems warmer than I expected. He seems sadder than I expected. He seems like a sad guy.

Yeah. He seems like kind of an angry guy too. I think all those, I stand and pick up angry. Although I, I agree to the tension that was between the two of them, but he's really he did get screwed over by a couple of those football managers, kicked him to the curb after years of

faithful service unceremoniously. The guy who coached that World Cup team he was on seemed like an absolute prick. And I think he felt he felt the betrayal and becoming the scourge of the nation overnight. Yeah, deeply. I think it's caused wounds that he's still not over. And so it was kind of interesting to see him wrestle with that on camera. Yeah. You know, you kind of got to see even somebody like Beckham who hasn't been a whiner about it.

Yeah. Gets affected. He's only human. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that he,

you know, the, the anger, I don't really feel that it's incredibly palpable, but I always feel it when you see somebody with a kind of disorder, like the extreme to which he has OCD. It feels like anger that's self-directed, which maybe goes to your point about feeling suddenly becoming the scourge of a nation, going from the favorite son to the scourge, to the reject, to the one who's fired, to the one who's being called essentially a failure. The punishment. Maybe. More and more punishment.

This is so exciting. I mean, I really hope people watch it. So we've helped the Beckhams by doing this long segment. I thought it was that interesting, and I hope you do too. A bit more with Maureen coming up after this. Don't go away. Right now, get the Sirius XM app for free for three months. Hear over 425 expertly curated channels, including ad-free music for every

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including politics from every angle. All of this and more is available now. Go to SiriusXM.com slash MKShow to subscribe and get three months free. Offer details apply. The Daily Mail's Maureen Callahan is here. And we finally got our martinis, which I have promised to always have on the set. Cheers, Maureen. Cheers, Megan.

Doug wasn't here today, so he wasn't here. So Abigail finally made these. Let's see. Solid. Refreshing. She's got talents I don't even, I continue to discover. Well, you have to keep her, clearly. We've been together 15 years.

No, she surprises me. All right, so let's finish on the sad news about Matthew Perry. And I know you've been covering the Britney book, too. What are your thoughts on that? You know, I was reading the Britney memoir as soon as it came out last week, and I kept thinking about Matthew Perry because at this time last year, I was reading his memoir and columning on his memoir and his, his memoir struck me as so much more candid than the average celebrity memoir. You know, when you read memoir, be it a celebrity or just a quote unquote civilian, I'm always wondering what did they leave out, you know, for like 75? Like a vacuum thing.

Exactly. The worst gets left out. So the amount of trauma and physical debilitation and pain and the sheer consumption, not just of drugs, but alcohol. And, you know, he was a three pack a day smoker, which I forgot about. I didn't know that. You know, just the, what he put his body through and that he was still even alive. And that book to me felt like, I mean, talk about a legacy play that book to me felt like I may not live much longer. And this is the thing I want to be remembered for not being on a sitcom, not being the sort of Gen X icon, but trying to help other people who are as tormented as I am. And it was such an object lesson to and, you know, the people you think have everything. Yeah. You know, and he says in the book, like, I would give everything up if I could just not feel the way I feel about myself.

And with Brittany, it's a different sense in that book. It's obviously not as insightful. It's obviously not as self-aware, but she still, to me, just as a reader, seems to operate from the addict mindset where nothing is ever her fault. Oh, interesting. Yeah.

And the key part to me that was most telling was the glossing over of that SWAT team, just a lighting on her mansion in Los Angeles when she had locked herself in the bathroom with one of her little babies. And that was, she was carted off. It was like LAPD were there. First responders were there. It was clear that it was a life-threatening situation. And she writes about it in the book as, hey, I just wanted to spend some time with my babies before they went back to their father. Is that a crime? So it's a whitewash, unlike his, which was reportedly as dark as it could be. I got to go, but you just told me his book has now overtaken hers.

Yeah. On the Times bestseller list. People are very interested in missing him. I'm one of them. Yeah. So glad you could be here. Thanks, Maureen. I'm so honored to be here in your studio.

Lots of love to you. Thank you, Megan. Until next time. Yeah. Thanks to all of you for listening. We'll talk more tomorrow. Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.