The Megyn Kelly Show - Steyer's Plan to Protect Illegals, and Gallego's Curious Swalwell Spin, Plus Jack Carr on American Chaos and Distrust | Ep. 1296

Episode Date: April 15, 2026

Megyn Kelly discusses President Trump’s stalled mass deportation efforts, radical leftist billionaire Tom Steyer’s ridiculous plan to protect illegals and banish ICE if he's elected governor of California, why the "Dignity Act" is a form of amnesty, what happens if the Trump administration chooses to support it, Stephen Miller not exactly dismissing it, why she believes Sen. Ruben Gallego is showing signs of deception talking about his long-time buddy Eric Swalwell, the rumblings there are scandalous stories on the way about Gallego herself, and more. Then Jack Carr, author of "The Fourth Option," joins to discuss rising chaos on American streets, concerns about personal safety fueling a deeper distrust of institutions, why many Americans feel anxious about those in power, what military veterans think about America’s war in Iran, what we can learn about the conflict based on recent and historical experience, his journey from elite military service to becoming a best-selling author, the inspiration behind The Terminal List, and more.     More from Carr: https://www.officialjackcarr.com/   Dose: Support your liver and daily energy with Dose for Your Liver—get 35% off your first month at https://dosedaily.co/MK or use code MK at checkout. Supersure Insurance: Simplify your business insurance and get a free coverage report at https://Supersure.com/Megyn BeeKeeper's Naturals: Go to https://beekeepersnaturals.com/MEGYN or enter code MEGYN for 20% off your order Herald Group: Learn more at https://GuardYourCard.com     Follow The Megyn Kelly Show on all social platforms: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/MegynKelly Twitter: http://Twitter.com/MegynKellyShow Instagram: http://Instagram.com/MegynKellyShow Facebook: http://Facebook.com/MegynKellyShow  Find out more information at:https://www.devilmaycaremedia.com/megynkellyshow Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Welcome to The Megan Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East. Hey, everyone, I'm Megan Kelly. Welcome to the Megan Kelly Show. We have a lot of news to get to. Plus, the mega bestselling author, Jack Carr, is here with me right here in the Red Studio. Looking forward to that. But before we get started, I have some news for you in the world of Devil May Care Media. As we expand our MK True Crime content to bring you even more great programming, everybody loves true crime, right? true crime. We're going to have the M.K. True Crime show hosted by Phil Holloway, Ashley Merchant, and Dave Aaronberg, bringing you the latest on the true crime headlines, live trial coverage and newsmaking guests. We are also adding in another new show. It's called In the Well with

Mark Garagos and Matt Murphy. What a pairing, right? Like storied criminal defense attorney against storied criminal prosecutor. They like each other. They've been up against each other many, many times in California for decades in courtrooms there. And now they team up for a show where they come together for a conversation between two true experts on juicy legal cases, including criminal cases, along with some special guests. And then we have positively legal with Mark Eglarsh and Jonas Bilboor. They are Kelly's court. Oh, geez, back when it was Kendall's court in the Fox News days. And they are still together. And so are we. and we love these two, both lifelong litigators and in the criminal law as well as civil.

And they will be bringing their own show and unique perspectives to news of the day around crimes and legal matters. So more to come as we prepare to bring this to you, but go to mKtruecrime.com to subscribe on YouTube wherever you get your audio podcast. Okay, so go to podcast. You can type in MKTrue Crime. It'll come up. You can subscribe there or just go to mKTruecrime.com.

which we'll have all the links for you. Okay. Let's talk about liver health. Your liver is like your body's quiet caretaker and filter. It processes everything you consume and performs more than 500 daily functions. So let me tell you about dose and liver support that they say can actually make a positive difference. Dose for your liver is a clinically backed liver health supplement taken in a daily two-ounce drink that tastes like fresh OJ. Dose says it cleanses the liver of unwanted stressors that are slowing your liver down, and you can enjoy steadier energy without those midday crashes and lessen bloating after big meals. Dose says two double-blind placebo-controlled studies show that its positive impact on liver enzyme levels is real. More than 80% of people

saw a positive impact on liver enzyme levels after taking dose for three months, dose reports. New customers can save 35% on their first month of subscription by going to dose daily or by entering mk at checkout. That's dose daily.com. DOSE-D-A-I-L-Y.com for 35% off your first month subscription. Is President Trump's mass deportation plan collapsing in slow motion? Has it been abandoned altogether? With the Iran war and the Eric Swellwell situation, we haven't heard much about what's going on with ICE and President Trump's campaign promise to deport as many illegals as possible. Well, President Trump suggested the administration could use, quote, a little bit of a softer touch after Renee Good and Alex Preti were killed and confrontations with immigration agents in

Minneapolis. I mean, what we haven't really realized or talked about, we've been mentioning it on this program for a couple of months now, is the Trump administration lost that whole standoff in Minneapolis. Unfortunately, they've changed their policies as a result. And, you know, when Homan came in and Nome got fired, well, first she got pushed out, that she gets fired. The softer touch is now, we've gone from worst first to pretty much worst only, if that. The number of detainees in jail out in Minneapolis is lower than ever. at least lower than the past couple of months, not than ever, the Biden administration was a different

situation. But what we've sort of seen is that the Trump administration realized this turned into a political loser, thanks to the nonstop negative coverage, which was totally unfair. And unfortunately, it appears now we've changed policy. What we've seen is a drop in polling support for the administration's immigration enforcement. And since then, we've had the Border Patrol commander at large, Greg Bovino retire. Nome again removed as DHS chief. First, she was moved out of enforcement over Minnesota. And the borders are, Tom Holman, who we love,

formerly for Mully, ended the Operation Metro Surge in Minnesota. Remember, he went in. Remember, he first went in there and he was like, I'm going to, I'm going to try to get these sanctuary cities to cooperate by like agreeing to call ICE before they let loose criminals in their jails. And we were covering on this show and on AM update every day, like, how are you going to do that? Their sanctuary cities, it's in their policy. It's like in their law to not cooperate with ice. Well, the answer has been they weren't able to do it. Nothing ever changed in Minneapolis. They just quietly moved on to other stories. And the media

did too, including Iran and so on. And Minneapolis remains a sanctuary city that appears to have zero intention of cooperating with ICE, which is now all but left the city. So, FYI, those crazy-ass protesters, succeeded. You got to admit, they succeeded in what they wanted to do there. And it's really unclear to me exactly what the new immigration regime is. I mean, what does all of this mean for the Trump administration's literally, it's, literally, either the number one or number two or three, one of the top three agenda items when they were elected in 2024. Okay, because the numbers are in and ICE detentions are down. They're down big. After a record number of illegal immigrants were in custody in January, the figure dropped 12

percent by the end of March. 12 percent. We're going in the wrong direction in terms of the detention of illegals. This is the first time detentions saw a major decline in Trump's second term. We were going in the right direction. He came in with a full, you know, gust of wind behind him, understanding that this was a mandate. And then here's how it went. In January, an average of nearly 72,000 illegal immigrants were in ICE detention every day. Seventy-two thousand. By March, the number had fallen nearly 10,000, down to 63,000 in change. The decline primarily driven by the decline in arrests of illegal immigrants without criminal records. It very much appears like we have moved considerably on from that group. But the story is not just about the numbers. The left is totally

emboldened on this issue. And I do mean totally emboldened, making outlandish claims about what they want to do to stop ice even further. Exhibit A is the California gubernatorial campaign of far-left billionaire and ascending California Democrat, Tom Steyer, who would benefit from Swalwell's collapse? This guy's name has been mentioned more than anyone else's. I'm still rooting for Katie Porter.

Get the fuck out of the shot! She's our fave. I mean, obviously we want Steve Hilton, but if it can't be Steve, it should not be Steyer. Okay, so Hilton was here, by the way, yesterday in a really interesting interview. He still leads the open primary polling if you look at the real clear politics average. But the betting markets have Steyer as the overwhelming favorite after Swalwell's withdrawal because nobody thinks that California is going to elect a Republican once this thing boils down to

two candidates squaring off. So the expectation is that Democrats are going to come together and they are going to support this lunatic stire in the same. the general election after they split their votes in this crowded field in the primary. So the primary gets decided June 2nd and then the general is elected, gets decided in November. Yesterday, this guy, Tom Steyer, let me just say, this guy was like, kind of had a reputation as being like somewhat more reasonable. Wrong. Wrong. He put out a statement yesterday promising to abolish ICE. I'm just going to go through the litany of what he promised. Here's what you need

to know. None of this is possible. It would all be illegal. He doesn't have the power to do it. This is a bunch of nonsense sweet nothings. This is like the 800-pound lady saying she's going to look like Cindy Crawford for this summer. Right. Like, it is not possible. I'm sorry. No matter what you do, how hard you try, you are not going to be able to do this. So he apparently has decided to just do what a lot of desperate politicians do and promise the world, none of which will be delivered, to get votes. But we'll go through what he's promising, so you know. He wants to put ICE agents and their leadership in jail for their crimes, I'm quoting here,

because that's how you take on a violent extremist group and win. You're an idiot. Okay? That's never going to happen. They have federal responsibilities under the law that they are enforcing. And if you try to insert yourself in that process by dubbing federal immigration enforcement behavior's crimes, the courts will not listen to you. There's something called the Supremacy Clause where the federal law, where it conflicts with

the state law, trumps it. Say, okay, so you should know that. You probably do know that. You're just a naked panderer. And he says that he's going to do this if he becomes the California governor. Same way we took on the mob. Okay, Tom, you might want to crack a law book instead of whatever it is you're smoking out there in the mountains of Utah, one of his favorite getaway spots. He also promised to, quote, bring those detained and kidnapped by ICE back home. Kidnapped by ICE. So not only does he want to stop deportations, he wants to bring back the illegal immigrants we've already been trying to imprison and I guess sent home to? Are we like going to travel down to Venezuela and get them, Tom? Or do you just mean the ones we put in jails because,

A, they're here illegally, and B, they've committed additional crimes? I mean, there are a lot of disgusting child molesters who were arrested and put in crime in California. And I'm going to guess that even his most ardent constituents might have at least a second thought. Maybe not all of them, because we saw the loons in Minneapolis protecting the pedophiles. But a fair amount of Californians are like still reasonable. They vote Democrat because they're super crunchy. You know, like the hippie types. But they don't, they're not pro-child molester.

Now, they certainly wouldn't want like a child molester in jail to be released because Tom Steyer says it's an illegal who is unfairly imprisoned. Now, one thing we know is that he will be totally immune from the consequences of mass immigration himself. He doesn't have to worry about any of this. He's a former hedge fund manager. Forbes estimates that his net worth is about $2.4 billion.

So this is going to be the problem of regular Californians, not Tom Steyer. He's good. Don't you worry. He'll be fine. Here's a rendering of what his San Francisco cliffside property will look like when it's completed. It's being worked on right now, per the San Francisco Chronicle. It's going to be just a $4 million mansion. so it's like one of his lesser properties.

It's going to overlook the bay, though. What have you? It's the current 5,500 square foot house is going to be demolished because obviously that's that we need something new. It's going to be demolished. It's going to make way for a more expansive 7,500 square foot structure spanning three levels above the basement. And then here's his stunning Lake Tahoe house, per the New York Post. This home is worth $18 million. Very nice. Lake Tahoe is spectacular.

Sure, he enjoys much of the gorgeous town. The lake itself is spectacular. It's a cool 18 mil. It's going up in value. He reportedly bought it for 15. So already he's made $3 million on it. This is a look inside the home. Floor to ceiling, glass windows,

overlooking the lake. It's safe to say he won't have many new immigrants as neighbors anytime soon. So he's in the catbird seat. He can woke virtue signal to all Californians who also are largely on beautiful lots behind their gated properties, the ones who are going to vote for him. And they're all going to feel really good about themselves because they helped the poor embattled illegals.

Unlike the working class in California, you know, the ones who are the restaurant workers and the construction workers and the salons. and the salon workers who are the ones who are going to get killed and whose children will be molested by the ones he's going to let out of jail. So, great job. Great job, Democrats, in trying to pave the way for this guy to be your next governor. He's certainly not going to have to worry about this guy, 26-year-old Ola Olu Katan Adan Abel. He was taken into custody Monday following a string of shootings on the other side of. of the country in DeKalb County, DeKalb County, Georgia,

that left two women dead and a third person in critical condition. This guy, we inherited him. We're so lucky here in the United States that we not only get to deal with our own homegrown criminals, but we import them from other countries. And not only do we let them stay here illegally, but many, like this guy, we actually allow to naturalize, which is not possible, and become U.S. citizens. So he was a UK national from Great Britain, and now he's one of ours.

Now he's an American, only because Joe Biden made him one in 2022. Now, as a result of his naturalization and permission slip to stay here forever, 40-year-old Lauren Bullis is dead. She's one of his victims. She was known as a friendly face in her neighborhood who walked her dog daily. Listen to what this sick F allegedly did to her. Watch.

A neighbor tells us she ran outside after hearing about six or seven gunshots. When I came out, he was still standing there. He was pulling her clothes, her pants off her. Like, I'm standing at the end of the driveway. Just he didn't care at all. So he shot her and then took her clothes off? Fox News' Bill Malusion

reporting that DHS confirmed, he had prior convictions, because of course he did, for sexual battery, battery against a police officer and assault with a deadly weapon. You'd have to be willfully ignorant to not recognize. We have an immigrant crime problem in our country, including from people like Abel, who again was allowed to become a citizen. So shot and killed two people, one, he shot and stabbed, also attacked a homeless man, who now is in critical condition. So Renee Goods and Alex Preti's deaths were tragic, but President Trump promised to solve our open border problems, and these two people's decision to interfere with immigration enforcement should not have brought

an end to that. Because the trend line right now on our enforcement efforts, it's not looking so good. it's really not looking so good. Distractions abroad should not be an excuse to pull back on the clear and present danger here at home. It shouldn't be the worst first. It should be, yes, okay, the worst. And everyone else. Because what we're seeing now, according to the reports, is that the numbers are way down on when ICE goes to arrest. Let's say it's got a list of 10 illegal immigrants who have committed.

additional crimes. So it's going to go into Detroit to pick a city to go arrest those 10 people. If they then encounter other illegals in the attempt to arrest those 10, they would arrest them too. Like, oh, you live here too. You didn't commit an additional crime, but you're here illegally. Get in the back of the van. You're going to detention too. You're going to be deported. Now those additional arrests are way down. It appears we're not really doing them much, if at all. So it's gone from worst first to worst only, which is not what we agreed to. That is not why we elected President Trump. The polls were overwhelming that the public wanted all of the illegals gone.

And it's because a lot of them actually don't have a long rap sheet before they commit their first big crime. Right? What exactly is the story with the illegal from Venezuela who killed? Sheridan Gorman. Sometimes they get here, for whatever reason, and they decide to kill. Still a mystery in that case. He killed her in Chicago. She was a freshman in college, going out to try to get a peek at the Northern Lights with their friends. And for no apparent reason, he chased her. She ran, terrified, and he shot her in the back of the neck. killing this sweet, beautiful 18-year-old girl

with her whole life in front of her. Either for no reason, possibly as a gang initiation. We had the former governor of Illinois Rod Blugoyevich on the show saying to him this looked like a gang introduction or initiation. We don't know. There's some evidence he was making gang signs. The problem is sometimes they don't have the long rap sheet.

In many cases, they do. In many cases, like the murder of Kate Steinley out in California, You know, they have a long rap sheet and they've been deported five times. But the point is, you can't go by whether they have a rap sheet. If they are here illegally, they have to go. That's why President Trump was elected. And again, like we're doing our foreign adventurism.

Okay, could we keep our eye on the real ball here? Like, you know, we're pretending that Iran was about to drop a nuclear bomb on us. It's not true. but we actually are under a different kind of bomb, thanks to these illegals. Like the bomb that explodes city after city after city across the country at disparate times and kills random Americans. And why is it so often women? Again, I've covered this before.

We've done retrospectives on the victims. And believe me, there are millions of men who are endangered by these illegals too. and far too many American males who get killed by them, get shot, the homeless guy who I just mentioned, get run over by DWI, illegals, and so on. But it seems like these days every report is of a young woman between the ages of 18 and 25 doing nothing, living her life like Sheridan Gorman, going for a jog like Lake and Riley, or Rachel Moran, mother of five. and they get killed for no reason other than the perversions or psychosis of these illegals. So they need to go.

That actually is a clear and present danger to Americans who today are going to go to the grocery store by food for their children, drop their kids off at school, pick them up later, make a nice dinner. And tomorrow, some will die at the hands of people who have no business being here. Where's the laser-like focus on that? Truly. I mean, for all of her faults, Christy Noam seemed to be intolerant toward the presence of any illegals here,

which was a good thing. I believe she thought she was enacting President Trump's agenda. Could we get back to that? Could we not bend the knee to the outraged, blue-haired women? in Minneapolis and their weird TikToks? Because the core

votership that put President Trump in office was made a promise on this and abandoning it is not going to serve anyone well, anyone, even the leftists who claim they want it. And now we talked earlier this week about this bill that's being pushed by a Republican congresswoman

along with the Democrat, but, I mean, Republicans, there are some 20 Republicans in the House who are in favor of this thing, which is amnesty. It's amnesty for that segment of illegals who have been here for more than five years that had to predate the Biden administration. So they're trying to exclude the ones who came in under Joe Biden. Okay, great. But why are we doing? We're not giving amnesty. What do you mean?

So if you got here during the Trump administration or during the Obama administration and you've managed to last five years, you can stay? And they're like, you've got to pay a fine. You've got to pay back taxes. Okay. And in exchange, we swear we're going to crack down on the border. We're going to make sure, you know, we're going to do E-Verify, which I love. We should do E-Verify. But somehow it never seems to come along, never actually seems to get implemented. They put all these nice little sticks in for the Republicans. Like, here are the sticks we're going to use to, like, keep the illegals out, the scary things. And then the sticks get removed and only the carrot remains. which is amnesty, the lure to get the illegals to come over. Every time you give amnesty, more illegals come. Because they know we're weak. And with enough pressure every 10 years, somebody's going to bring it up and actually has a shot. So now there is an actual bill for amnesty. They deny that it should be called that, but it is.

It's got some border tightening and some provisions like E-Verify, but it's got a whole lot of amnesty too. for the so-called dreamers, kids who are brought here by their parents under the age of five and have lived their whole life here, and for others who've been here for at least five years. Okay, so that's working its way through the House, sponsored by a Republican, Maria Salazar, and Stephen Miller. I mean, is there a greater spokesman or policy hawk on illegal immigration? than Stephen Miller. There is not. Like, he's solid. Stephen Miller was interviewed the other night on Fox. I think it was with Brian Kilmead. Do we have this thought? And he was asked about this bill,

this amnesty bill. Now, having listened to Stephen Miller for many, many years, what I would have expected Stephen Miller to say when even the word amnesty came up was something along the lines of hell no. Not only no, but hell no. There will be. no amnesty under President Trump. Absolutely not a single illegal will be made legal. These people are going to be deported. Period. End of report. Unfortunately, that's not what we heard. Watch. Here's some of the facts with the Dignity Act. Where do you stand with it, Stephen? Well, you know that this administration imposes amnesty. President Trump has always been clear in his opposition to amnesty. And I, of course, you know my own views. But,

But I want to reframe this whole conversation, Brian, if I could, to something that President Trump has been very focused on for a long time. And that's about having the kind of immigration to this country that makes us stronger, not weaker. I think this conversation gets siloed too often when we have to look at the whole picture. And so this old Washington conversation about amnesty is missing the whole point. The real conversation is, how do we have to have? an immigration policy that makes America stronger and more unified, not weaker and more

divided. That, it sounded like someone else invaded Stephen Miller's body and spoke for him there. I'm sorry, but to me, that sounded like somebody getting ready to lay the table for something other than deportations, something possibly approaching amnesty. Like that's Salazar bill. That was not a no. And I don't know why. There's zero chance that Stephen Miller has softened on this issue.

If the message is softening, it's because his boss is taking a different position. And it was just a couple of months ago that President Trump suggested he might be open to something like this. He says no amnesty. And then he softens it with another statement like, well, but we have to see people who have been here for a long time. Like what? This can't happen. It cannot happen. I mean, I cannot imagine what will happen in 26, never mind, 28, if Trump betrays the base on Epstein, on Middle East War, and then grants amnesty.

Okay, for anyone. Like, there's just no way. If he does that, he's intentionally trying to give the elections to Democrats. If he does that truly, like, then he's trying to get Democrats. elected. And there's just no way he would intentionally do that. But I don't know why they're softening in the message. I don't know why we have a Republican co-sponsor who Trump endorsed after she became a co-sponsor of this so-called dignity or dignidad act. So he endorsed her after that. And something appears to be in the mix, which is not going to go over well with the

GOP base, with the America firsters who put him in office. this so-called Dignity Act, offers a seven-year temporary legal status for undocumented immigrants who have been here five years or more since before 2021. They must pass a criminal background check. They must pay $7,000 in restitution over seven years. No federal benefits or entitlements. No path to citizenship for them, though for the dreamers, different story. Once completed, can continue to stay and work in the United States.

this is the last thing we need in this country. This guy Abel, who I mentioned you out of Savannah, Georgia, I mean, I'm just looking, this Matt Van Swal online, he got access to his case files for the previous sexual battery in Savannah that caused him to be banished from the entire city. And here are his headlines. He assaulted, because he went to jail, and then he was released. And that's why he was back out on the streets to kill those two.

women and attack a homeless man, placing him in critical condition. He had assaulted four different women in the span of a few hours, for victims, four counts of sexual battery in April 2025. When police tried to arrest him, again, quoting here from Matt Venswal, he resisted. They added an obstruction charge on top of everything else. That obstruction charge vanished magically before trial. Prosecutors dropped it entirely, no explanation given. his attorney got all four sexual battery counts handled under George's

first offender act. Aren't you a second offender when you move on to the second woman? Meaning if he completed probation, the whole thing would essentially disappear from his record. The judge sentenced him to 48 months and then suspended most of it. He actually served 120 days in prison total. Four months in prison total. I guess each woman got one month. That's how much her sexual battery an assault was worth? One month.

30 days per victim. How much do he pay in fines? Zero. How much did he pay in restitution to any of the four women? Zero. The court did order a psychological evaluation and required that he follow whatever treatment came from it, mandating mental health counseling. And then they banned him from the entire.

city of Savannah for four years. They explicitly prohibited him from possessing any firearm. That always works so well with the lawbreakers. They always honor those mandates. He signed the probation agreement on June 7th, 2025. We couldn't even make it one year before he got a gun, murdered two women, and attacked a homeless man again. Okay. So this, this is this is where we stand today. This guy, again, was legal. We made this guy a citizen. But he wasn't prior to that. He's from the UK. He was not a citizen. We made him one. And then he took a gun and murdered two women, shot a homeless man. One of the women he shot, he also stabbed and was caught pulling her pants down after he shot her. So what the fuck did we let into our country? And how many

more are there, like ABLE, who are getting ready to murder, rape, and hurt. More young American mothers. Honestly, what the F? This one of the women work for DHS. It's just awful. This is her.

She looks happy. She looks joyful. She looks fun. She's got some sort of a costume on here, holding up an award. She looks like she's having a great time. she should be today and tomorrow and the next day. Instead, she's dead and bleeding in a morgue. Thanks to this guy who we decided to make one of us with the blessing of American citizenship as a Republican congresswoman pushes for many, many more to get permanent legal status and for

others to get actual citizenship. I mean, it's just, it's a disgrace. President Trump cannot allow it. There's just, there'll be nothing left. There'll be nothing left of the America First Coalition if the promise to deport the illegals is abandoned in favor of amnesty of any kind, of any kind. All right. We're going to take a quick break and we will be right back. There's much, much more. Don't go away.

Okay? Quick break. And then we'll be back. And just a bit after that, Jack Carr will be here live. Here's a question for you. How many brokers does it take to insure your business? If you're like most business owners, the answer is too many. Multiple policies, multiple applications, no clear view of how it all fits together. It's a nightmare. And when questions do come up, it's not easy to get the clarity you need. And when it comes to insurance, you always need it quickly. But super sure changes all that.

It's a one-stop shop for all of your business insurance, backed by a team that works with your year-round, not just at renewal time. You're not a hassle to them. They actually want to partner with you and make your life easier. And if you've ever stared at a policy wondering what it actually covers, right? Who hasn't been there? SuperSure has a fine print fax tool that translates the legal jargon into plain English so you know what's covered and what's not simply and quickly. Right now, you can go to super sure.com and get a full report on your current policies with no obligation. Find out if you're overinsured, if you're underinsured, or somewhere in between. Go to supershure.com, one superagency, one powerful platform, all of your

policies in one place. Go to supershore.com slash Megan today. That's supershore.com. And listen, if you currently do not have all your policies in one place, you got this broker and that broker and this policy, they will help you with that too. They can help you consolidate everything. so it's in one place and they will run interference for you. Okay, so check it out. SuperSure.com slash Megan paid for by SuperShore Insurance Agency LLC, a licensed insurance agency. And speaking of criminals who should have been behind bars instead of out hurting American families, we've got to go to what happened at Walmart in Nebraska yesterday.

Have you seen these pictures a warning? This is disturbing. A mom was pushing her little toddler boy in the cart at Walmart, as we've all done 10,000 times. This psycho other woman comes over to her, reportedly, according to the cops, takes a knife that she had stolen from Walmart, a large, like, butcher knife, the kind you have in your knife block that, you know, it's like the biggest one. and threatens the mom to basically get out of the way and to give the psycho the grocery cart with the child in it. The suspect is named No Me Guzman, 31. The little boy in the front of this cart, just for the listening audience, we're showing this psycho perpetrator, holding one of those huge knives, like the psycho knife over this little boy.

He's got long blonde hair, so he looks like a girl from the back. but this is a boy, and he's got a baseball hat on, and he's turning around, I think he's looking at his mother, because when the psycho forced the mother out of the store, and the psycho had the little boy, Siler, in front of her, like the mom was reportedly in front of the cart. So the psycho was forcing them both out of the store for some reason. We have no idea. This is an actual photo for the people who are watching this on YouTube. You are seeing, I assume it's from the cop's body cam. You can see the cop's two hands holding the gun, pointing at Psycho, this Guzman, who's got the knife raised as though she's going to stab this little boy and he's okay, but she did cut him. It obviously must have been right before this because he's

got a long, looks about like a six inch, yeah, here's his face cut on the left cheekbone going up over the top of his ear that now looks stitched up. Thank God he is physically all right. this could have been so much worse. And thank God that the Omaha police responded quickly. So here's what the Daily Mail says happened. Guzman, the perp, approached Sarah, the mom, and Siler, her son, who was in the shopping cart with a large kitchen knife, ordered the mother to leave the store. She took possession of the child, essentially kidnapping him, and forced Sarah to walk in front

of the car while she took control of it. She held the weapon to Siler's body as she issued commands to Sarah telling her to stop and then keep walking as they headed to the parking lot. No doubt half of Walmart was calling the cops by this point. Police intercepted Guzman shortly after she, the little boy and his mother exited the store. Photos show how she held the knife to Siler's head as she repeatedly made threats with the weapon. Officers gave multiple verbal commands for her to drop the knife, but she refused to do so and cut the boy in the face, say police. That's when two officers fired their service weapons at her, killing her. Good. Sarah and a bystander immediately removed

Seiler from the cart and provided aid. He was taken to a nearby hospital with lacerations on the face and hand, required surgery and stitches. By the way, a go-fund me campaign was started to help the family with medical bills, therapy, and daily expenses. As the toddler recovers, his dad was at a job interview when the attack unfolded. This is not a well-off family. Unlike Tom Steyer, they don't have the $18 million mansion in Tahoe in addition to the cliffside home. in L.A. He was looking for a job when his wife and son were attacked at a Walmart in Omaha, which is supposed to be safe by this criminal, not in illegal. Sarah Hillman, the mom urged her, she's, I guess, some sort of an influencer online, urged her followers to please pray from my

baby. Again, a GoFundMe campaign was started to help them. After the shooting, police attempted life-saving measures on Guzman, but she was, was pronounced dead. Okay, her history. She was arrested in 2024 after her father's home was set on fire. Gee, good call on that arrest.

According to Omaha police, she doused her father, Octavio Guzman, in a flammable liquid and cut him with a knife. That was 2024. It's 2026. What is she doing out? If you or I doused a person

in lighter fluid and then lit the home on fire, and then cut that person with a knife, I think we'd still be in prison right now. Why is she out? Why is Naomi Guzman out on the street to commit this crime in the first place? Then she left the location after this crime back in 24 and broke into a church rectory in South Omaha. More via KETV.

She left and broke into San Francis Cabrini Church, St. Francis Cabrini Church. investigator. She had a knife and was destroying property in the rectory. A priest inside barricaded himself in a second floor room called 911. Omaha cops said she broke through the door with a knife, sensing a pattern. Just as crews were getting the priest out through the window. This woman is clearly, deeply, deeply, dangerously unwell and a threat to society. She should not have been out and free. She was found not guilty by reason of insanity. That's why she was out. and guess what though, don't worry. She was assigned a treatment plan. Her annual review was scheduled for June 12th. She had a treatment plan, guys. Tell it to Little Siler, who's now going to have emotional wounds

that last him well after the healing of that physical cut on his head. We don't imprison people anymore and we really don't institutionalize them. We have psychos roaming the streets and we don't imprison them. I mean, even Sheridan Gorman's accused killer, this guy in Chicago, his defense lawyers are standing up saying, oh, he had a mental deficiency.

He got, I think he was shot in the head. He had a massive head wound. He's got like a crater in his forehead. And that left him unable to tell right from wrong. Oh, he was able to cross the border illegally. He was able to claim he needed asylum. That requires two brain cells to rub together. He was able to know that he should run.

after he committed the crime and go back to his apartment and hide, sounds like he actually kind of had malice of forethought and knew exactly what he was doing. But now, and what about, what about Irina's killer down in Charlotte, North Carolina? That guy, too. He was just found incompetent stand trial, at least for now, that has to go to another decision. So he was fine. He had multiple arrests, a long, long rap sheet, but he was still roaming the streets because judge after judge put him back on the streets to hurt us.

So between the fucking illegals and the nut cases we refuse to institutionalize, we are lucky to live nine to five out on the streets every day, my friends. More than half the point of electing Trump was to crack down on crime in these cities and to get rid of these illegals. Obviously, we can't do it all. Obviously, not every single criminal will be locked up and not every illegal will be deported. But to in any way take our foot off the gas pedal is to indeed. danger more Americans. And these cities that don't seem to care about keeping criminals locked up or to institutionalize the mentally insane are complicit. They're complicit. So we'll see now

what happens. I mean, obviously the woman who abducted the child at Walmart is dead. And that's a blessing. But in these other cases that we outlined, like in Georgia. Okay, I want to move on to a couple of other things. Let's go to Ruben Gallego. So he's the senator who beat Carrie Lake in Arizona, unfortunately. He's a Democrat, and he was also the best friend of Eric Swalwell. I guess now they're breaking up. Now that Swalwell's in trouble and has been accused by five women of various acts

ranging from sending unsolicited dick picks to alleged rape, I feel the need to add The first woman who accused of him that Said he molested her when she was blacked out one night And then she called him again five or six years later To have drinks with her And the alleged rape happened that second time together Now a woman came forward with Gloria Allred's daughter

Lisa Bloom yesterday Gloria and her daughter, both lawyers And that woman said she believes he slipped her a date rape drug And that he raped her and choked her out He denies all of these accusations. But Ruben Gallego's name has come up repeatedly because they're best friends. He helped run Swalwell's very brief presidential run in 2019. And many people have questioned what did he know and when did he know it?

And he came out to speak to some of that yesterday. Here's some of it in SOT 14. We all heard rumors in Washington, D.C. about Eric Swallow for many years. And my family, again, was with him all the time. with his wife, with his kids, and we saw a different side of Eric that I'd never saw. And when I asked him about some of these rumors that were starting on the internet, you know, a few weeks back, he also denied it and said the same thing, like the same thing they tried to do to you is in 2024 is what I'm trying to mean.

In the beginning, you said when you first heard these rumors a few weeks ago, that's when you call them. Then you said you've heard these rumor for years. So which one is it, Senator? So I heard rumors of him being flirty. And that wasn't an issue enough for you to not trust him to watch your kids or be close with him? Because, you know, you hear this. And then when you're close to somebody and you know, you know his wife, you see this.

You see that relationship. You know that, like, it maybe just isn't true. I've asked him about it prior to the few weeks. I asked him about it a few weeks ago when it started coming up online. Oh, my God. I mean, like the deception meter is going off the charts. A lot of signs of deception there. Hands above the midline.

Arms crossed offensively. Not answering the specific question. Spirling, deflecting, adding in unnecessary details. We're going to run this by Phil Houston and have an analysis for you. But I mean, you don't need Phil Houston, the human lie detector of the CIA 30 years, to see this guy's obviously misleading us. You can see he's in a panic. He seems extremely nervous.

What do you have to be nervous about? Really? If you ask me, I've actually known people who have been accused of serious felonies. I have. If you asked me if I had anything to do with him, I'd say no. If you said, did you know anything about it? I'd say no. Nope. Didn't had dinner. Saw a nicer side. Wasn't really involved in any of that. That's it. I want to get nervous, spiral, arms crossed, hands above the midline, not making eye contact, unnecessary detail. What do you have to hide, Rubin? Citizens of Arizona, you did the wrong thing. You put the wrong man in office.

You should have gone with Carrie Lake. She's bold. She's unafraid. Maybe some of you found that a little off-putting in a woman. But that's exactly what you needed. Somebody bold and unafraid in that post. And not somebody who's running around with his shirt off with Eric Swalwell in Abu Dhabi. All right.

Look at these two morons on their. They're camels. God only knows what happened after this. I don't think Ruben Gallego's troubles are over. They're just starting. Here he is more of him in SOT 15. Let this man into my family. I trusted this man. And through some of the hardest things I ever had to deal with,

I trusted him with my family. And it hurts. And it hurts the fact that he hurt a lot of people. And it pisses me off that now we all have to deal with All of his BS, his family, the poor victims that are still going to have to seek justice. And of course, this is just, this is a horrible situation. Okay. I'm just going to go ahead right now and say it's going to come out that Ruben Gallego knew everything.

You can just tell. It's just my opinion. You can just tell. They were best friends. Swalwell never said a word to him about the many dickpicks he was sending young interns. You're telling me Swalwell never pulled out his phone and showed. Ruben Gallego, the naked shots he managed to get back from the young women who wanted to work for him or get to know him. Never did that.

Bullshit. I call bullshit. Does that guy look like he's telling you the truth? He's in a shit ton of trouble. Which is why his voice cracked. Again, in my opinion, because he's scared for himself. Here's a little more in Sot 13. Swahua had called you his best friend.

you have never asked him about any of the rumors that have been swirling around democratic politics of his inappropriate behavior? I did. Look, we knew each other differently for what else. My family and his family were as close as it gets. Our kids were in baseball camp together. We had dinner together as a family. It was entirely different, but I think what people understand. But when there was rumors going around a couple weeks ago, not of the folks in whatever in the San Francisco Chronicle,

I did ask him, and he lied to me. He knew that I just came off a very, very hard campaign for two years, where he lied about me and my family for two years. He manipulated me to have the same sentiment that I was having back in the day and used that as an opportunity to move me to defend him. How did you not know about the allegations? So considering you chaired his presidential campaign, wouldn't some of this have come up?

Some of those allegations predated when he ran for office. Again, this man lit a double life. He lied to us. Look how nervous he is. These are very simple questions. And, you know, I brought it up just a few weeks ago when the allegations first started his service. No, I don't believe you.

And by the way, a truth teller doesn't sound like that. You know, a truth teller runs toward the truth. That's what we know from Phil. They run toward the truth. They don't spiral into, oh, my family knew them differently. Our kids play baseball together. our family spent all the times together, the dinners. No, a truth teller says, the first I ever heard of this was when that one woman posted the thing on the internet saying there are a bunch of

other women out there who are going to come forward against Swalwell, saying he molested them or he mistreated them or he harassed them. And I went to him. And the truth teller then recounts what happened in the conversation. I said to him, is there any truth to any of this? And he said, absolutely not. Rubin, you know I love my wife. This woman has an axe to grind because I fight. You would remember the conversation. You would recite it and repeat it fearlessly and with detail. You wouldn't be inserting our kids play baseball together.

So in my opinion, Ruben Gallego has something to hide too. And if it's bad, there's a real question about what's going to happen with him in his Senate seat. Because if he knew, if there's pictures of him, if there's anything along the line, of what we've seen with Swalwell, that's another political position that's very much in jeopardy. It's really unbelievable. This story is not done, not done by a long shot. And so there's a question of who knew and when and who was complicit. Who might have been in the pictures? Who participated in Swalwell's depravity yet to be answered? Put a pin in that one. Okay, up next, my pal Jack Carr is here.

He's a very, very famous author. He's a Navy SEAL sniper. We had dinner last night. He was telling my kids about Bud's training. You could hear a pin drop in the room. Great storyteller. Great guy. We'll talk to him next.

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Our sponsor, the Electronic Payments Coalition, says Washington politicians are always getting in your wallet. And now they're messing with your credit card. They say your credit card and the security it offers are under attack, and that Senators Dick Durbin and Roger Marshall want to change the nation's payment system to benefit corporate megastores like Walmart and Target at the expense of every day. Americans. Credit cards can keep your payments secure and provide rewards that families use to help make everyday purchases more affordable. The Electronic Payments Coalition says the Durbin Marshall mandates would let corporate megastores cut corners on credit card processing, routing transactions

over cheaper, untested networks, with weaker security and fewer protections. Find out more at guard your card.com and consider telling Congress to guard your card. Hey everyone, it's me, Megan Kelly. I've got some exciting news. I now have my very own channel on Sirius XM. It's called the Megan Kelly channel and it is where you will hear the truth, unfiltered with no agenda and no apologies. Along with the Megan Kelly show, you're going to hear from people like Mark Halperin, Link Lauren, Morin Callahan, Emily Dyshinsky, Jesse Kelly, Real Clear Politics, and many more. It's bold, no BS news. Only on Megan Kelly channel, Sirius XM 11 and on the Sirius XMXM. He is a former Navy SEAL sniper who spent 20 years in naval special warfare, leading elite teams on the front lines in Iraq and Afghanistan. After serving as a team leader, platoon commander, and task unit commander, he transitioned from the battlefield to books and how, becoming a New York Times bestselling author over and over and over again. His debut novel, The Terminal List, became a massive hit and was adapted into the wildly successful Amazon Prime. video series starring actor Chris Pratt. Here's part of the trailer if you haven't seen it. Want to tell me what happened? Somebody fed us bad intel. He's a setup.

If I'm right, we need to act on this. I need names. There's a connection to you and your men. I'll find it. Answers? More blood. Blood. Where's James Reese? Is it true your fusion if it's a Navy SEAL? people tracking you right now, so just lay low. I have 12 men flying on the caskets right now. This is personal. You wanted in on the fray. Now, you're in the battlefield.

So good. Nice. Now author Jack Carr is opening a new chapter with an all-new series. His latest book, The Fourth Option, set to hit shells next month. Jack Carr joins me now. On set, how are you? I am great. Thank you so much for having me.

Oh, I got the pleasure's all ours. In that video right there. So I'm in that car that Chris Pratt backs into in the, the 1988 FJ-62 Land Cruiser. That's me. And that was a stuntman in it that he got out and I got back in. They wouldn't let me do the crash. I have that shootout with Chris Pratt where he kills me in episode three. That's your signature thing.

That is. Your cameos. Yep, exactly. Get killed in every season. But I had to tell him, hey, if this went down in real life, things would turn out a little differently. I had to have that. I think he knows that.

He knows that. He's all good. It's been like a rocket ship for you. You got out of the seals. who got out of the service and decided to put some of those stories to good use, your imagination, son of a librarian, loved books, and sort of put your two greatest loves together, right? The military and your love of books. But it really happened for you and your talent like shot you to superstardom in like a year. So take me back to that time when you're like, maybe I'll write a book.

And then like a year or two later, Chris Pratt, miniseries, bestselling books. Like, what a transition. Yeah, it's crazy. But I knew what I wanted to do from such an early. age that I never got dissuaded along the way or if I did or someone tried to and someone tried to tell me the odds of becoming an AVC or the odds of becoming a number one New York Times bestselling author. I just used it as fuel. Somebody's become a seal before. Someone's made it through this training and someone's on that New York Times list at number one.

I can do it too. Somebody else has done it. And that reading that I did really, I credit reading with not just what I'm doing now and providing that foundation, but also the foundation that allowed me to go into the seal teams because I was studying warfare, terrorism, insurgencies, counterinsurgencies from a very early age. So I knew I wanted to serve at age seven, knew I wanted to be an author, certainly by age 11. And there was a book called Novella, The Most Dangerous Game by Richard Connell, which was written in the early 1920s. And I told myself one day I'd write a thriller that paid

tribute to that short story. And I told myself that in sixth grade. And that was my third novel, Savage Sun. So the reading really informed all the rest of it. And from the leadership perspective, I'm getting lessons from other people throughout history. And then I'm going through buds and I'm thinking, you know what, people, I'm not storming the beaches in Normandy or Iwo Jima right now. I can do a few more pushups in the sand in Coronado, California. And all those people from the inception of this country up until today sacrifice so much for me to be able to pursue my dream. And it happens to be becoming a Navy SEAL, testing myself here in Buds. And then very naturally, all those books that I'd been reading, really for the magic and the pages of the thrillers,

because a lot of those thrillers that I read growing up had protagonists with backgrounds I wanted in real life one day. And so all of those books really became, and their authors became my professors in the art of storytelling. I didn't think of it that way at the time, but I'm reading those things at a time when I don't have a job. I don't have a family. I don't have a mortgage, any of those things. I'm just a kid in sixth, seventh, eighth, eighth, ninth, seventh, twelfth, twelfth, continued throughout my whole life. But I'm reading and I'm learning at the same time, but I didn't look at it that way. But not having all those distractions, not having the job. Whatever you do between age eight and 18 or 10 and 20, I think it just imprints on you in a different way.

If I'd been 40 years old, close to getting out of the military, and then decided, hey, you know what, I'm going to give this author thing a try. What should I have been reading for the last 30 years of my life? I think that's a different reading experience because then I'm going back to read those grates. But now there are time machines back to the time when they were contemporary thrillers. And that's when I got to read them. Yeah, the imprint is different. For sure. So we talked about this a little privately, but that in those moments in Bud's training when you're freezing cold and you've had no sleep and they're just dumping more and more on you. And you were telling us last night about getting, tell us about the tent. experience when you have your two hours. Yeah, that's the one I wish we didn't even get. I wish we did not get the two hours of sleep on Wednesday and Thursday. So you wake up Sunday morning and then you get a little bit of sleep on Wednesday evening. As the sun's going down, they throw you into a general purpose medium tent, I think it is. So for those who watched a mash, it's just like a green tent with very thick canvas walls. And they put you in there, but your body's been moving since Sunday morning nonstop. And so you're sweating, but you're freezing. And it's just disgusting. It's like walking into a solid wall when you open the tent flaps and walk in there. And as soon as you

close your eyes, at least for me, I was out right into REM sleep. And then it feels like you're woken up a second later. It's really been two hours. But it's a second later and they throw the flash crash in there, which is like a grenade that makes a sound in a flash. I mean, like you just skip over that like it's a normal thing. Like they shove the radio shack alarm clock in there. No, no, no. What did they throw in the tent? Yeah. So like a little flash crash grenade, like it makes a bang. It just a big bang. It's not going to hurt you, but it's going to It's going to wake you up. Yeah, okay.

And then they come in with M60 machine guns that have blanks in them and start shooting over your head and you have to run down to the beach, which is like 20 yards away. And then you go get the omelet made for you by the chef or the creamy eggs. That comes later. Okay. When they're teaching you how to write books. No. Yeah.

Instead, where do you have to go? Right into the water. And so you link arms with your class and you go into that surf zone and the brains crash over you and then you have quitters. We're going to stop doing this only when we get five more quitters, 10 more quitters, whatever, which is not really true. And then you can make it all stop by ringing that bell three times. But you get that little bit of sleep on Wednesday, a little bit of sleep on Thursday,

and then Friday afternoon, that's when it's all over. You make it stop by ringing that bell three times and saying I quit. And most quit. You were saying last night, it's like, yeah, about 80%. 80% of the class. You don't make it through for medical reasons. How many started with you in your bud's training? I think it was a little over 200.

Just keep a general so someone doesn't go back and look up and I'm off by one number. So we started in the 200s. And I think through Hellweek we ended up with 20-something. and then you roll for different things. People get sick or, you know, hurt their leg and have to go to medical and roll to the next class and that sort of thing. But, yeah, it was a good little run.

And what's the distinction between the ones who quit? Because these are tough guys, for the most part, who decide to even try this. It's not like the Megan Kelly's of the world who'd be like, I'm so cold. I'm out. I know you like it warm in here. Yeah, I do like it warm.

These are tough guys, for the most part, to begin with. So what is the difference between the ones who make it and the ones who don't? It was that mental fortitude. And you can't really tell by looking at somebody. You can't tell by looking at someone's resume. You can't tell by how many pushups or pull up somebody can do. Because I got there and I looked around and I thought, oh my gosh, how am I going to make it through this program.

Look at how huge that guy. Look how fast he is. Look how loud he is when we're all like getting motivated as a class or whatever. And I thought, oh my goodness. And then usually those people are the first ones to quit in hell week. Wow. First hour. Why?

Why is that? Do we know? I don't know. I think it's something because, well, I can go take it to the example of, let's say, a professional athlete or somebody who's been, if they have a little hurt on their knee or something like that, then they go in and they get it massaged out and everyone tells them how wonderful they are and they go right into the cold plunge or the sauna or whatever else you're doing to make you the top athlete you possibly can be, whether it's high school, Olympian professional athlete,

whatever it might be. And that's really not what we do at Buds. You're looking for that. You're not looking for that Ferrari or Lamborghini that, oh, there's a little sound, a little think, think, think, I better take it into the shop. You're essentially looking for that Ford that's going to run forever and go through walls and make a bunch of noise. is and you're going to play hurt. And I don't know why this is bringing this up for me, but it's like today, the dogs had to go in for like an annual appointment, you know, whatever. And the vet, every vet bill is ridiculous.

They were like, oh, you know, Thunder, she's getting older now. Strudge is turned five. Thunder's about two and seven. And they're like, she's going to need her blood work done just because she's becoming an older dog is going to be $470. Now, Doug would have said no. Just on principle. It's ridiculous.

Nothing wrong with her. It's just because she's getting older, we have to take her blood. But I'm a sucker. So I was like, okay, we'll pay it, right? For sure. But that's, okay, that's fancy veterinary care in the city. We went to visit friends in Texas when Thunder was one. It was during COVID.

And long story short, she had been spayed and her wound had opened up. And their horse vet was the only one. who was available over Memorial Day weekend. All the vets were closed and it was COVID. Their horse vet was there. He was around. He was like, I'll see her. So we go over to visit the horse vet.

And the horse vet is like, to Doug, you know, like, you hold her down and I'll stick her with the stapler. And Doug's like, is there going to be like an anesthetic for anything? He's like, she's either going to wiggle when I hit her with the anesthetic or she's going to wiggle when I stitch her. And Doug's like, okay. So he did. He held her now.

And then Doug is, is there like an antibiotic? or something. She was running around with an open wound. He's like, hold on. He goes in the back. He grabs his own antibiotics. Nice. Pours out like 10 penicillin pills and gives it to Doug. And I'm like, okay, so this, this is the difference, right? Like, that guy is the kind of guy who could raise a Navy seal. These veterans and I are not those kinds of people. Massages, you know, make sure they're hydrated.

Right. $470 from the anticipatory blood test for the... older age phase of being here. Anyway. Probably difference between a city dog or a suburb dog and a country dog. But in the Philippines, we're out there. And you know how we say, you never, don't let your dog have a bone. Like that'll break a chicken bone. It's stuck in their lungs.

Yes. So we're in the Philippines. There's dogs everywhere in these villages that we're living in. And they just throw the whole carcass of whatever's left of the chicken out there. The bones, essentially. And they just, like, 30 dogs. And they're fine. They're fine.

Yeah. They are completely fine. Everyone's soft now. That's really kind of the bottom line. This is Mike Rose whole reason for existence, like to remind us of how soft we've gotten. And Navy SEALs and Bud's training is a way of seeing who's too soft to actually be a SEAL.

Yeah. And then you were saying that not on top of that. So you make it. You're one of the, you know, 20% that actually manages to make it. And my biggest takeaway in listening to you last night was it's a difference between in these moments that whole week thinking about yourself. and thinking about others.

If you can manage to keep it outside of yourself, you can make it. Yeah, I mean, you have to, it's a test, I think it's a draw in that you want to test yourself. A lot of young men in particular want to test themselves some way. They don't even know where it comes from, but it comes, I think it's innate.

It's within all of us. We want to test ourselves somehow. And where does that come from? It comes from when we used to have to do it for our family, our tribe, our community, now our country. But we used to have to show that we could add value

to said family or tribe. Otherwise, we weren't going to be around much longer. We had to be good at the hunting and the fighting. And we had ancestors that were, otherwise we wouldn't be here today. And I think there's that something in our DNA that I listen to. I tend to listen to that call. So listen to something that comes from that sixth sense,

that thing that's kept us alive for millennia. Well, I still listen to that. So when I heard that calling early in life to test myself and to try to become a Navy SEAL to be one of the best operators in the world and go through this toughest training of a devised by modern military, or that's at least what I found out when I found the end of the internet in the library in like 1982 or whenever it was, that's what I learned by doing the research that I did at that time.

so I'm going to test myself there. And I think that's innate really in all of us. But you're thinking about Iwo Jima versus where you are in that water versus like, I'm so cold, I'm so cold. You're like, think about what others have done. Think about a greater sacrifice. Like you're minimizing self in that moment. Yeah, I think putting things in relative terms helps not just if you're going through

Buds training or you're going through Ranger School or whatever else, but in life in general because we're all going to get knocked down. We're all going to face obstacles. But really putting those in perspective. And so if failing that test is the hardest thing you've ever dealt with, it's the hardest thing you've ever dealt with. But if you think about it, you fail that test, and then you think back to all of the things that people have survived for millennia or just take it to this country. And for me, specifically in Buds, I thought about those guys who

are going over the beaches at Iwo Jima and Normandy and thought, I can do more push-ups here. I can make it through. It puts this in relative terms. It isn't actually that hard in the grand scheme of things. It not only does it show your mental tenacity, but it shows your smarts. Like, you do have to be smart mentally to make it into one of the elite groups of the military in particular, like a ranger, a seal, sorry, but I mentioned them too, the green frays. So like it's showing that you've got that. But after you make it, if you make it, you're one of the 20 percent. You do not take off the helmet and put your dad's name under that bell. You do not ring the bell three times. You make it. Then you have to go like underwater

and do all these crazy things that like no normal human can do. Well, that's the second phase, dive phase, part of buds where they want to make sure you're comfortable in the water. because you could be the toughest guy. You could have that team ability we're looking for. You could have that resiliency, that moral courage, that physical courage, all those things that we're looking for, but you just might not be comfortable in the water. So when you do your closed circuit, you want to test before you go on to the closed circuit, which means that you're breathing a pure oxygen loop and there's no bubbles going up to give away

your position, you do a regular scuba thing, but you have kind of old tanks on your back, these twin 80s and kind of an old school early Jacques Cousteau type of a regulator system thing, and you crawl along the bottom of the pool and the instructors hit you and smash you in the stomach so you expel some air and they pull the regulator out of your mouth and tie those hoses in a knot and rip your mask off and then they back up and see how you handle it. And you have to go through the correct procedures and the correct order to get your air back on, get everything situated and keep going and then they hit you again. And it's really just about seeing if you're comfortable in the water.

So you can lose some really good guys that are great with all the other stuff. And if they were going through Ranger School or the Army Q course for Army Special Forces or whatever it is, they would have been fine. But crawling in the bottom of the pool and getting hit like that and the other things that we do to make sure you're comfortable in the water, they just don't have that. me that seems closer to like you actually are close to death. Like you're underwater. You could die at any moment. They're messing with your air supply. That to me just seems like it's less about discomfort. It's more about genuine fear of dying. I don't like how what did you use in that moment?

Because I'm thinking like I don't know if beaches at Normandy would have done it for me. Well, I was lucky and that I was comfortable in the water. For some reason, my dad got me certified in scuba diving when I was nine. I think you had to be 12. But he was an attorney at the time. And so I think he talked him into it. He had that lawyer talk and got me certified at 9. He was like, Future Navy SEAL here, ma'am. I don't know what it was. Got to let him in there. Yeah, some great dives together. And I'd done diving for avaloni up in Northern California,

that sort of thing. So I was comfortable in the water at the time. And also, it's one of the only time in buds when it's you against the instructor. Usually you're just getting yelled at. You're doing push-ups. You're being told you're worthless. But this time, and there's one other time as well, it's you against the instructor. It's how I looked at.

Like, this is my time to go against you. That's good. The only times it's going to happen. Another time they called these life-same. saving drills. They put, I don't know, five or six different instructors out there in the pool and they all feign a different type of victim in the water. And so you have this huge guy that is just a lifeless and you have to get him back to the wall. You have someone who's fighting you and takes you down. And I love that one because this is now you actually get to put your hands on an instructor. So you're grabbing them, you're swimming

back to shore and then they take you down. And then I just relax and they bounce you off the bottom of the pool and they're now using their oxygen. So it's just one of those ones just hold on. Okay. And then come back up, grab that breath, get a little closer to the wall and then they take you down again. And so I love that now it's hands-on and one of the very few times you get to do something like that in this year. So I love that part. Oh my gosh. That is that the whole thing sounds quite terrifying to be honest with you. But it does sound like you were made for that training and you were made for the job. And there's a reason that the seals are so respected and people admire them. This, in getting briefed by like many security teams over the years, I've been told repeatedly

like in terms of your personal security, don't get like, you don't, you don't necessarily need to have a security expert. You don't necessarily need a police. officer, but if you can get like a former Navy SEAL, somebody who's fine with physical contact, you know, who can kill you in two moves or less, that's better. That's better than having, like, somebody who's just more familiar with law enforcement. You know what I mean? Like, because they're comfortable with physical contact and they wouldn't let anybody get anywhere near you. Yeah, I mean, there's, I mean, there's certainly everybody's different, of course, and then there's now, we don't want to get to that point. Yeah. Having these different layers

of security. Now you should hire like a tech guru. Exactly. Right. Exactly. Yeah, you have those first slayers in place. Yeah. Because it's a scary time. Now we do the work for, let's say, someone in the 1950s wanted to rob your house or something like that, they would have to put in some work. They'd have to find out the times you're at work, the times you're gone, who's at the house, who's not at the house, what's the best time?

Like all of those things. And they'd have to physically figure that out. Now it's just out there online for a lot of people. And so we're doing the job for essentially our enemy, let's say a criminal element that they would have had to do themselves back in the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, even early 2000s. Yeah. And now we've done that part of the job for.

for them online for the most part. So it's been a little bit harder target than somebody else who's out there in the public eye. Can you believe those stories that we started the show with? Well, I was trying to catch up on Iran upstairs because I've been busy doing things around here and I was like, I'm gonna catch up on what's going on in the world.

And I went on and then they had the show on in the green room. And so I started to start watching. And I was like, just put my phone down and I could, I get so anxious up there. I mean, that woman having that knife to that kid's head. I mean, some people are probably, get me canceled. My pelvis is probably like, oh my gosh. But some people just need to be shot. Yeah. A hundred percent. Oh, yeah. I mean, there was no question. The world is safer without that

woman in it. Obviously, because the courts were not going to lock her up. It's so sad. You know, it's like so many of these criminals, it's like they went through the criminal justice system like that guy who shot Irina in Charlotte, North Carolina. He was a nutcase. He had been in and out of the system repeatedly. They knew he wasn't well. They were like, okay, we'll do a psych eval at some point, but sent him back on the streets and he killed her. And now, of course, the bitter irony is now when he's finally going to face justice for this murder, this horrific murder, they're like, oh, psychiatric issues. We're not sure he's competent to say, oh, now, now we're finally going to get the system involved. It's ridiculous. And I mean, at some point, this is going to happen to the wrong person's daughter. And that person is not just going to go after the perpetrator. And once again, this is another thing. It'll probably get me canceled. But it's just, it will happen. Someone is going to die and it's going to be the wrong person's daughter, someone who has 20 years of experience in Iraq and Afghanistan, and they're not going to. to care because that person is the light of their life and they're not just going to go after

that perpetrator. They're going to go after those politicians who kept that person in the country and let them out of jail. It will 100%. It sounds like a plot of one of my books, but it's, it will happen. Yeah. No, we're not calling for it. We don't want that to happen, but people need to be aware that the string of consequences that comes from these horrible decisions, and they are decisions that lead to these people being back on the street could have devastating consequences for more than just the innocent victims, for, for, yeah. anybody involved in it. And like, because you know what's happening, Jack? This kind of relates to what you're doing with your latest book. But it's like there's a frustration with the system.

The system is not working. And more and more people are looking at politicians like they're all gas bags who make politicians or make promises that they are not going to live up to. And you feel like, you know, welcome to the new boss, same as the old boss. No one's working for me. The system's not working for me. The government, I don't trust. The judges, I don't trust. it's like up to me now to keep my family safe. That's kind of where you go in the fourth option. It is. It's really an exploration of justice. And through the eyes of two different people.

One's the government guy like you talk about. He's an FBI agent and who came up through the system. He went to law school, became an agent and has done all those things he needs to do to make that next rank and work his way up the chain. And he has a certain view of justice. He's a constitutional scholar. He has a constitution behind his desk in the field office. And then you have Chris Walker. He's the protagonist of this story.

and he's the opposite of all those things. He's an orphan. He has this background is a seal and a CIA guy, so he has these skills to do what he does in the book. But he's also a philosopher, so he's a little different. He has this battle raging in his soul between all these different philosophers that are essentially looking for truth and justice.

That's what they're exploring. And he has this battle raging in his mind, and he's actually about to take his own life, unfortunately, when he receives this call that saves it. He feels responsible for the death of his friend in Afghanistan. His widow calls and says that her son was, killed in this opioid epidemic and she doesn't trust this investigation by the police officer in New Orleans. Police Department in New Orleans, can you come out and help? And so instead of jumping

on a horse, because this is my interpretation and my modern take on essentially have gun will travel and old Westerns, the stranger comes to town narrative like Shane or High Plains Drifter or Pale Rider, he gets in his Volkswagen vans, pop top camper with his Belgian Melanwa dog, and off they go across the country to New Orleans to start investigating and see what he can do to help. And he unravels this conspiracy that goes up through police officers and politicians and drug cartels and lobbyists and pharmaceutical elements and all of that and then starts taking them out. Right. Well, like, is somebody who's figuring out how to find justice through a system that doesn't deliver

it. Exactly. I don't know. Are we, by the way, it's called, again, it's called the fourth option. Here it is. There it is. Check it out. You can be one of the first in on the latest Jack Car thriller.

There it is. This is a thriller. It's not just like a military saga. Exactly. It's just for people like me. It's, yeah, like my James Reeves Terminalist series, the stakes are usually geopolitical in nature. There's some end of the world type of a thing coming,

not in all of them, but in a lot of them, and James Reese has to save the world. This is domestic. I wanted each book in this series to take place in one place. So he has to, stranger has to ride into the town or drive into the town in this case. And in this case, it's New Orleans.

That's the backdrop of this story. There'll be another one that has another city in the future. But that's the backdrop. So domestic, the stakes are very personal, very primal, very visceral, but it's that exploration of justice. And in this case, you have that FBI agents that's getting closer to understanding Chris Walker's version of justice. And then Chris Walker, maybe he's getting a little closer to finding that maybe the system can work.

And so they're getting closer and closer until they come to this penultimate confrontation. You're going to finally resolve this for all of us. Now, tell us a little bit about the Hollywood factor in your life because not only are you BFFs now with Chris Pratt, but my favorite character from Friday Night Lights is now in the Jack Car universe. Taylor Kitch. Taylor Kitch. Yes. Texas Forever.

Two very homely men who you're hanging. They're both great guys. They're both great guys. They're both great guys. And Chris Pratt, I think most of my audience is going to like him because he's right-leaning. He's Christian. He seems like he's got very solid values. He's married to Schwarzenegger.

That's right, Catherine. Right? Catherine Schwarzenegger. And just seems like somebody who, like, is pretty well liked in Hollywood, even though he's kind of openly right-leaning, which is like, he's the one. They don't allow that. amongst any stars? Well, yeah, but he's very thoughtful and very kind.

So I think that breaks through and kind of trumps anything else when you sit down and talk to somebody and it's just well known how kind he is. And just like in any industry, you know, you hear things about people and it leaks out and this. People have found out about our show and how supportive this whole crew and cast is to one another. The terminal list.

How positive it is. Yeah, on the terminal list and on the dark wolf set. So now people have heard in Hollywood about this. And it all comes from Chris Pratt at the top, setting that tone and then it filters down. So he's number one on the call sheet. and just filters down across all the different departments through hair and makeup and mobility and stunts

and everybody involved in these productions and these 350 people on set. And they don't have to come up and tell me this sort of thing, but they come up and tell me that they've been a part of, and this is across the board, this isn't just one instance. This happens almost every time I'm on set. And they say, you know,

I've been a part of hundreds of Hollywood productions and I've never felt the way that I feel on this set right now. And I just want you to know that. And so that's very cool to hear. So that's just make a difference. He sets the tone at the top and then people know if they can behave like assholes or not. Exactly.

I can see how somebody at the top can poison that's set for everyone and make it a miserable experience for everybody. And so Chris does the opposite. And then the showrunner, who is somebody, because you have multiple directors in a television show. So the showrunner, David DeGilio, he's in charge of all these different directors. And he's kind of the singular point of contact for everything.

And same thing. He sets this tone. And wants everybody to improve and move up the ladder and whatever they want to do in Hollywood. And is so helpful and encouraging to everybody. It's a really cool, I guess the kids would say vibe on set. Now, are they all? enamored with your military service? Like I would imagine most of this Hollywood set is like,

they can't understand this at all. Ah, well, now- Not Chris Pratt, but the others. Yeah, I mean, Chris Pratt played a seal in Zero Dark 30, which is where I first thought, ah, you know what, he could play this part. And of course, I wrote my first sentence of the terminal list. This is December of 2014. I'm still in the Navy. And of course, I write one sentence and I think, who's going to star in this masterpiece? Yes, of course. I think, ah, I saw Chris Pratt in Parks and Rec, you know, kind of, you know, jolly, overweight, you know, that kind of funny. And then, oh, he became a seal in Zero Dark 30. And he hadn't done

Jurassic World, hadn't done Guardians of the Galilee, so he hadn't had that A-list success yet. And I thought, this is the guy who needs to do this for his career. He needs to show people he can play a darker role. And plus, I need someone likable because James Reese is going to do things like gut a bad guy and make him walk around a tree and then get eaten alive by the animals of the swamp. So I need someone who's likable. I need the audience can stay with him. You know, just in knowing you, as we know you personally a bit, that all this time I thought to myself, Jack doesn't seem to have any PTSD. Like, you don't seem to have a hangover in that dark way that a lot of our great military guys do through no fault of their own.

And now I see it's because you're working it out on the pages of these books. It's very therapeutic. I mean, that's a way of doing it. And especially in the first one, there's politicians and there are senior military officials who get taken out because they're part of this grand conspiracy. And the Chris Pratt character, James Reese, really has nothing left to lose because he's got this. tumor and this tumor, this drug that's been tested on his platoon, and he's the only survivor, but he knows he's dying. So he has no family left and not, he doesn't worry about going to prison or anything else because he knows he's dead. And so he asked, so he goes and does this thing with

completely free of restraints. And I remember reading a book about samurai back when I was in probably junior high or something like that. And it said that the samurai would go into battle thinking they were already dead because that made them more effective and efficient wars. Oh, wow. And so I thought, how do I bring that to a modern day warrior who has this skill set from the battlefield in Iraq and Afghanistan. And I thought, oh, I get them a tumor. Oh, I have them drugs tested on by this military establishment. And there was actually some of that going on and came out in the church hearings in the 70s. It's probably what inspired the idea where they tested some drugs on, let's say people in the military, college students, people in mental institutions,

prisoners, like that sort of a thing. It all came out in the church hearings. And so I incorporated that into the novel. But point being, it's very therapeutic to work through some of those issues. And a very healthy way of dealing with it. I think so. I think so. So now what about Taylor Kitch, what's he like? So great. He is fantastic. And he's a little bit like his character, Ben Edwards, in the good ways. Meaning it's a different type of character when you meet him in the Terminalist,

not in the book. And I think the show is much, but so much better with the character than I did in the terminal this book as the author. The right came out of the writer's room as a better character. And then Taylor brought this level of empathy and compassion to this character who ends up being a, I don't know if you're a spoiler alert. I mean, I shouldn't say it. Anyway, he brings this level of compassion and empathy to this character that if you read

the book, probably wouldn't deserve it. But then you get curious about, hey, what made him this way? He's best friends with these guys. He does this thing in the terminal list. How did he get that way? So we go back and we do the prequel story with Dark Wolf that came out last year. And Taylor's just awesome. Rides motorcycles.

We're texting all the time trying to figure out where our next bike adventure is going to be. And he's great. Well, that's the crazy thing about you. So where'd you grow up? Northern California. Yeah. But you're, I mean, you had a relatively simple upbringing. It wasn't like this crazy.

I'm all over the world. I'm doing all these exotic things. And then. You write these books, they become huge hits. And now, like, every time we talk, you're, like, often another remote part of the world doing something really cool. Yeah. So just describe some of the crazy things that you've done because there's a lot of them.

There's a lot of them, but also I'll give the one that's coming up. When I get back from this, I have a few hours at home and I pack up and head to Vietnam and taking a group of Mack v. Sog veterans, and that's what my book Cry Havoc focuses on, 1968, Vietnam, James Reese's dad, Tom Reese. And came on the fall. Yep, came in October. And this, and we're taking with the best defense. foundation that usually takes World War II veterans back to the battlefields on which they fought for a little closure.

They get closer to the end of their lives. This is the first one that we're going to do with Vietnam veterans, which would be very different than taking World War II veterans back to Normandy in June, where there's American flags everywhere and 82nd Airborne flags and 101st Airborne flags. And even the kids, they've passed on through the generations, this gratitude for American service, men and women. And they're just raving American flags, five-year-olds, 10-year-olds, 20-year-olds, and everyone, else. They're just waving American flags and so thankful, Vietnam is going to be different. So I'll be back from that. It'll be a 10-day trip out there and take these guys back to the forward operating bases that they worked on. And then some of the places that they had maybe a little R&R on the beach that now have resorts, full-on resorts there, but we'll take them to,

you know, Saigon now, Hoechamon City. Wow. And it'll be, it'll be quite powerful. How do you think that affects a soldier? You know, I've been thinking about it in the context of the Iran War because there's not majority support for this war at all. In fact, the public is overwhelmingly against it. It's more like two-thirds of the countries against it. One-third thinks it's a good idea. I think Americans learned a lesson after Vietnam, which is you don't take that out on the soldier, ever.

You know, you root for the military, and the men and women in uniform who are brave enough to make the sacrifice or risk it. And I think we, pretty much everybody follows that now in America. I'm sure there's one small, tiny percentage that is a bunch of dicks. Sorry. But for the most part, I think we understand that.

However, I would imagine when you are, the fighter, you know, the sailor or the soldier, what have you, maybe it's harder. Maybe it's like a little bit more mentally taxing when it's not like post-9-11 where we were attacked, you know? And I know you fought in Iraq and Afghanistan, so you can speak to this a little, because Afghanistan was very, very clearly in retribution for 9-11. And Iraq was more ambiguous, even at the time, you know, they tried to sell it as sort of related, but I think people knew, is it? And now this one, too, is more controversial. So talk about it. So talk about it. about that dynamic for a soldier mentally.

Yeah, you have to focus on the task at hand as a leader. That's the part of the art of leadership. There's no manual that says this is how you deal with, I don't know, consternation back home or whatever else, because our job in the military is to be prepared to go to war and then to go and called. That's it. And then do it to the best of our ability because that's what we owe to the person to the right to our left, to the mission as a whole, to the families of the guys to our right and our left. So it's, that's the focus.

And as a leader, if you have people with questions, that's where the art. comes in. Like, why are we here? What are we doing? Let's say, this is my second or third time to Iraq. And this is, it's even worse off than the last time. And we put all this energy and effort. And I've lost my friends and all the rest of it. Why are we still here? Like, those are the kind of questions you have to deal with. And you have to feel those in a way that's appropriate that doesn't dodge it, of course. But then keeps everybody on track. And most everyone is a professional that knows that anyway. It's a business almost. It's a business that has some dire consequences if you mess up. So that's why you have to stay on track. So it's more afterward that you can look back

and say, what was all that worth? And how can we take the lessons of what happened in Iraq and Afghanistan and apply them to the next problem set as wisdom? We're not very good at doing that in this country. And that's really how we honor those people who lost their lives and those people who came home with the physical and emotional trauma of the battlefield. So we don't do that exact thing again. And we take those lessons and use it as wisdom. But once again, what do you make of the Iran war? because I've been so interested to talk to veterans. I've interviewed countless vets over the years, and they have a special place in my heart,

and I've been watching the crew that I know that I've interviewed. And it's kind of divided, I'd say. I'd say maybe half, don't think this is a good idea. They kind of were banking on the, we're not going to start any more a war's promise by President Trump. But another section, like Rob O'Neill is one of them, speaking of Navy Seals, who's more defensive of the president's action saying,

you know, this actually could make some sense and has been, notwithstanding the fact that he too has made a lot of sacrifices and was involved, obviously, famously in some of the biggest battles that we had, open-minded to the use of military action in the Middle East when the circumstances justify it and is saying, like, just because Iraq wasn't great and Afghanistan wasn't great either,

doesn't mean that this is a bad decision. So where do you fall? Yeah, so when I first, I was getting up already, to do a news hit that morning when we announced that we're now at war essentially with Iran. And so I was getting up to do something else. I was coming on anyway. And my first thought was, ah, this again? Like, it was always sad because we're coming out of these negotiations.

And obviously they did not go anywhere. And what I expected? What I thought I was going to get asked about is, what do you expect to have that happen in the coming week? And I thought about her for a second and was going to say that I think we'll probably have some strikes in order to try to coerce the Iranian regime. into whatever we wanted out of these negotiations. And then I woke up and, oh my goodness, this is not what's happening.

It's not just limited strikes. I mean, there are limited strikes, but not as limited as I thought they were going to be if I was asked to talk about it before we actually committed to this thing. It was bigger. So it meant that diplomacy had failed. It meant that any sort of covert action we may have had in place failed. It meant that any sort of upstream disruption operations, which means things that you can do to say the best way to say it, to.

to things that are made outside the country before they get in that can be part of a sabotage type operation. So all of those things above and below board failed. And now we're at that point where we're going to commit the military. And so my first thought, sad, but nothing else worked. And then I was like, this again. I thought we did this for 20 years.

Those are my first thoughts. And then, you know, I looked at it more analytically, not whether we should or we shouldn't. That'll come over time, I think, after I get to filter through more of what led up to this but in specifics when books are written and all that stuff. But I look at it as there's a lot more at stake here than just the midterms than energy prices, than just moving things through the straight-of-horm moves.

There's much more at stake here. And what I mean is that after World War II, we had the Bretonwood. We had the Atlantic trade, I think, agreement, whatever it was called, that meant America was now not going to seize these lands that we had fought for in World War II. We're essentially giving those back to Germany. We're giving those back to Japan and other places around the world. And now we're going to guarantee this freedom of trade across the globe. We're going to take on the economic impact of that as citizens. And that is very different than most wars throughout history where you seize control of land.

You take those resources. But what it did is it ushered in this era of prosperity, really unheard of in human history. And it's on the backs of all those people who have sacrificed so much in World War II. So we have this period of prosperity that we're now enjoying the benefits from today. And then we go into Iraq, we go into Afghanistan, and the world sees that we are not using our military in an effective way like we did in World War II. And we're giving this lesson like 20 years in Afghanistan. And this is the best the Americans can do with the mightiest military in the world.

And I think there's a direct line between that and Ukraine. And of course, China watches that. So what are they doing now? They're watching to see if we can use our military effectively to coerce the Iranian regime into giving up this nuclear program, which has been a red line for every administration for decades of both parties. So there's much more at stake than just Iran, just trade in that area. It's global because when you look at, let's say, China, from mid-1800s to the mid-1900s, there's this hundred years of humiliation that they have. The last vestige of that is Taiwan. And of course, most of our military runs on these chips from Taiwan.

Yeah. So, and that was a huge mistake on our part to essentially to give not our enemy in Taiwan, but something that our enemy considers Taiwan part of China. Yep. So I'll never understand how we let that happen, but we're so dependent on that. And so people are looking to see if we can use our military effectively. Can we be this force for global good, meaning can we deter? Just through an example here, an example there.

World War II is our example for those 50 plus years of prosperity. Yes, we had a couple of things like Korea, Vietnam that people took notes. But today, all these years later, it's really about global world order. And I don't mean that in a conspiratorial way. I just mean freedom of navigation on the seas. We've been the guarantor of that for since the end of World War II. And if that falls, then everything is so interconnected right now. It's not just us that feels it. It's not just the Middle East that feels it. It's the world that. Do you think somebody had that talk with President Trump after he said, okay, we'll have a joint venture or we'll just leave and they can have it. Remember, there was that boy, he was like, we'll just leave and the straight will go back to,

you know, being available to everybody. And do you think somebody sat him down to say, that's not what's going to happen, Mr. President. We're actually going to have to do something over there to secure it. The straight's an odd one, because obviously this is going to happen. I just don't understand how from the first moment, this is not one of our primary. Somebody saying the Iranians are going to take control of that straight and use it as a pressure point. I mean, I just don't, I do not get that. And we're, we are have no information on that. So that we won't know. Well, the New York Times reports that he was told by Netanyahu that the Iranian regime

would be so weakened by the initial strikes that they wouldn't be capable of doing it. Oh. Yeah. You shall see. And when his advisors get out and say, hey, I told him this or, hey, we had this plan in place. We didn't exercise it. Or we didn't move into position, what we needed to move in position, even though it was

in these plans for decades because there's plans for essentially everything in the world. You need to dust them off and you need to adapt because your enemy is going to make a decision. and your enemy is going to have a vote and things you have to adapt faster than your enemy, both strategically and tactically, and usually whoever does that comes out on top. But there's second or tortura effects. There's these contingencies that you can't possibly have thought of ahead of time, but you could have thought of this one. So I don't quite understand that piece of.

How it wasn't better thought out. Yeah. And there wasn't, we didn't have the, you know, we didn't have the 9-11 moment. We didn't have the Pearl Harbor moment. But did we, if you go back to 1979, if you go back to 1983, and you think of all the people that we lost from the EFPs, which are the IEDs that came over from Iran in Iraq. So I guess you could think of those as 9-11 moments,

but how much farther into the future should you be before you take action? Like, why have we done something different in 1979? Would that have taken to me there? Well, and look at the young people today. They're overwhelmingly against this. They have no memory of that. They've only read about it in a history book.

They care much more about themselves right now in our economy and getting a job and all that. And that just feels like a massive distraction, right? Like we're gonna go off and we're gonna fight some foreign war, which we promised we wouldn't do. And now we've got our commander-in-chief focused over there instead of over here, To them, it feels like a betrayal.

To some of us who just didn't want to see another Middle East port, it feels like one, too. I mean, I personally feel somewhat encouraged by the blockade, the partial blockade that we're doing because we haven't ceded control of the straight to them. And I'm hoping that at least now that we're increasing the pressure on them, right? Like they're losing something like $400 million a day as we control these Iranian ports on the street, that now they've got more skin in the game on this. And now we're in like a standoff where it's like who can withstand the pain more. Like us with the economic problems that are going to come from this partial closure of the straight,

or you guys who are now losing $400 million a day. Yeah. And it's that we always do this, it seems, that we mirror image the people that we were negotiating with or fighting and we put on them our values. And we think that, hey, this economic pain would do X, Y, and Z to us. It's going to do this to the Iranian populace, meaning the regime is going to have to bend to our will eventually. Maybe not. This is not a mirror image.

These are a different culture with different values and they're revolutionaries who have been in charge. We tend to think of them as the regime, but they're a revolutionary regime. So if someone else took over, that's a counter-revolution. So it's an interesting dynamic, but a lot of them are true believers. And you sit across from someone like that and you can't put American values on them. You can't put our, it just doesn't work that way. So you have to put yourself in their enemy's shoes and realize that, oh, they might be willing to sacrifice the entire population. Oh, my gosh.

just essentially in American terms to spite us. That's not the best way to put it. But you're not negotiating with what we would consider rational actors. They have their own values, their own culture, their own history, their own traditions. And their whole modus operandi for all these years has been death to America. That's their rallying point, a central pillar that rallies the populace to them because the America wants to kill you, Israel wants to kill you all that. So this is our, this is what binds us all together.

And they're feeling emboldened because they're, They fought the enemy. They were attacked by the enemy. They fought the enemy. And they're still standing. Like, their military's at the bottom of the ocean. But their insurgency, which is the same kind of fighting that we saw in Iraq, in Afghanistan, is doing what it does. And, you know, a massive thorn on our side, they won't give up.

They won't surrender. They continue to find new pain in the ass ways to make it really difficult for us, which is just, I mean, like, look, I haven't fought in any wars, but I've covered them all. And I've talked to a lot of guys like you who fought in them. It's a pattern. You know, you recognize a pattern from the outside when you see it. Like, this is what happens when you go to war in the Middle East. They're sticky sons of bees. They find new ways to be motherfuckers as the whole thing goes on.

They don't fight the normal way. You can sink the entire ocean and they're still there finding new ways to be massive pains. So that's what I see here too. I certainly hope that President Trump keeps saying like every day. He's like, it's over. It's over. He'd have more credibility if he hadn't been saying that from literally the first three days. He said it was over back then.

And it wasn't over. And it kept getting, so I don't believe it's over. I believe it's over when it's actually over. But, you know, reportedly they've made some progress on these negotiations. So I pray God, they finish it up. They make a real ceasefire and they come to a peace agreement. And we try to move past all of this. That's my hope.

Yeah. And the messaging coming out of the White House is the best way to put it as strategically ambiguous, I think is the term. I think that first part is being very generous these days. So they're tough to decipher. and then, but if you've listened to SendCom, those commanders, those guys seem impressive to me. Yeah, I agree. I was never really impressed with our senior level leaders when I was at the tactical level in Iraq and Afghanistan.

And I saw these guys sit in front of Congress. It seemed like, wait, you just said the same thing the last guy said two years ago or three years ago or five years ago. It's like another careerist. Exactly. You're saying the same things that they'll stand up, we stand down type of a thing. We just need more money. We need more time. We need more troops.

Like every single one essentially says those things. I think it was one guy in around 2009 said something different. and then he was removed for other reasons, like a few months later. Sex scandal. Don't check me something. I don't know what it was, but something like that. And so it was just the same type of person in front of Congress every single time. And we didn't understand the nature of the conflict in which we were engaged.

That was very clear to us at the tactical level. But now I see these guys who came up in that time and know those lessons and are now in these positions. And they seem to me from the outside. Of course, now I'm from the outside looking in. And they seem like they are much more competent than the people that we, had in charge. Well, it seems like CENTCOM is the one that said, we're not going to blockade the strait, Mr. President. We are going to blockade the Iranian ports on the straight, which makes much more sense. It gives them skin in the game, but it doesn't completely shut down all traffic

there, which is not good. So, yeah, they're advising him well from the sound of it. But, you know, that doesn't answer the big question of whether it was a wise move politically or, you know, to your point, for just beyond politically, for the globe, was this a wise? Was this a wise? wise move and time, time will tell. All right. I want to ask you this. Yes, I was going to say one thing about the early 70s. So when we have the oil embargo, I think people can check me in the comment section

and let me know if I'm wrong. But I think that only lasted for a few months. But the economic repercussions of that lasted through the rest of the 70s. So this is coming up on, what are we coming up? A couple months now. We're going to get through a couple months here soon. So just things aren't going to change in a day. And they have to know that history.

So would you feel better if Kamala Harris were our commander in chief? Is there perhaps a soundbite that will help me inform my answer to the question? This is her making fun of Trump and unveiling a new accent here at the National Action Network on Friday. Saw it 25. Well, he's pulled back because, you know, the way that he's thinking of foreign policy, it seems, is when he talks about America first, it's to withdraw from these relations. relationships and these connections. And then he kind of rev acts like a mob boss. So then he's kind of like, well, you know, you take Eastern Europe and I'll take the Western atmosphere. And then you over there, you get Asia and we're just divided up. Right? Instead of

understanding historically, America has always been about our global leadership. Imperfect, though, we have been. Okay, that's not a mob boss. I don't know what that is. Sounds a little like Louis Armstrong with the rasby boys. I don't know what that is. Why did you play that for me? It's so painful to watch. I miss the other accents. My sorrow. There's a lot of accents. There's a lot of what are they with a world word salad. She's saying she might run again. Jack. She could be the one to wrap this thing up if it happens to, you know, get mired in the quagmire. I saw her answer. What it was it? I might or something like that. Except she said it slower than that. She said it was, it was something. I just, is that, do you look at her and think solution? Oh, I think that's a, that's a leader right there that I can believe in, right there. It's like, it couldn't get that bad, honestly. Like people, even if you're disappointed about this war, those of us who, you know, really believe the president's promise is like, it couldn't get as bad as thinking she was a better option. Oh, I mean, I don't know what I would, I just don't know.

I just don't know. I'm going to insulate myself as, I try to insulate myself these days as much as possible. I don't blame you. Who sees that and says, I want more of it? I want to be uninsulated from it. Oh, it's so hard. Now, I have a question for you that I've been wanting to ask. Some Navy SEALs speak out a lot about their time in war and in service, and some don't

at all. Some have become like public figures and they're on the cover of books and they become like influencers and some don't. What do you feel? What do you think the SEAL community feels about the guys who get pretty vocal and pretty famous? Yeah, I try not to think about that because I knew exactly what I wanted to do. I can't control what other people were going to say about my next chapter in life.

I knew I wanted to write. I knew I wasn't going to write a memoir or something like that. And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with those who do. But everybody in the SEAL team is going to have a different opinion of it. And I didn't want to have that waste any bandwidth that now in my next chapter in life needs to be going into making this the best book that it can possibly be because people are trusting me with time. They're never going to get that back.

And that's something that I take very, very seriously, whether they're listening or reading, which is harder to do these days for someone to sit down and put those distraction devices away. Devices that are essentially keeping us from reading by the most powerful companies in the history of the world. So very interesting time to become an author. But I wasn't going to, in my next chapter in life, get controlled by what someone might think of me.

And for the other people... Just like your last chapter of life, you didn't get controlled by that. No, no, I'm just going to do it. And I'm not going to... I mean, we only have one ride on this planet. And I'm not going to have that ride dictated by what someone else might think of me. So I didn't consider that for me. Good.

Well, I wasn't even thinking about you. You're not a self-aggrandizing. Well, and I will say for the others, I think that kids especially in junior high, high school, even college, they need heroes these days. So like for us growing up, we had five years to freedom by Nick Rowe. They had the Delta Force by Charlie Beckwith. We had these books by guys who had been in Vietnam,

and those were people we could look up to. Those were role models. Those were mentors if you didn't have one. And kids don't have that today. They have the influencers. They're getting fed that by an algorithm that's just supposed to enrage them and keep them scrolling.

And now you can have this book by somebody who did X, Y, or Z overseas. Regardless of what the SEAL community or special forces community or whatever it is. I totally agree with you. I take your point. You can be a good influence on that next year.

My pal, Rob O'Neill takes shit for being one of these guys. But my interview of him, which we did the first year we launched this show, is my favorite interview of all time. Anybody listens to that. They want to go sign up for the military.

It makes them feel patriotic. So there is value. And there's value in reading Jack Carr books as well. This one's called The Fourth Option. Check it out and support Jack and all of his projects. You're going to pre-order this one right now. Jack, thank you. Thank you so much for having me off.

Thanks for your service, your friendship, and your soul. It's sharing it with our audience. We're back tomorrow with Stephen A. Smith and more. We'll see you then. Thanks for listening to The Megan Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.