The Megyn Kelly Show - Trans Ideology Harming Women, and Dangers of "Affirming" Care, with Kellie-Jay Keen "Posie Parker," Cat Cattinson, and More | Ep. 529

Episode Date: April 14, 2023

Megyn Kelly is joined by Kellie-Jay Keen "Posie Parker," founder of the group "Standing For Women," to talk about how she got started talking about the issue of trans ideology publicly as a stay-at-home mother in 2018, why the U.S. is much more extreme on these issues than most of the rest of the world,  the rise of "trans widows," whether it's appropriate to use preferred pronouns, how YouTuber Mr. Beast’s co-star Chris Tyson is public transitioning, Tyson’s disturbing tweets uncovered now, Lia Thomas’ alleged “autogynephilia” sexual fetish, and more. Then Joey Brite, executive producer of "Affirmation Generation," joins the show along with detransitioner Cat Cattinson and therapist Stephanie Winn to discuss the dangers of gender affirming care, how sexual assault and struggling with sexuality can lead to gender dysphoria, how they've lost trust in the Democratic party because of its radical transgender ideology, how money may be a motivating factor in promoting these beliefs, the effect testosterone can have on a person’s voice, and more.Keen: http://www.standingforwomen.com/Brite/Cattinson: https://affirmationgenerationmovie.comWinn: https://www.sometherapist.com Follow The Megyn Kelly Show on all social platforms: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/MegynKellyTwitter: http://Twitter.com/MegynKellyShowInstagram: http://Instagram.com/MegynKellyShowFacebook: http://Facebook.com/MegynKellyShow Find out more information at: https://www.devilmaycaremedia.com/megynkellyshow

Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations. Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show and happy Friday. It's been a great 24 hours in the Kelly Brunt household. I gotta tell you, I began the day completely joyful as I remained to this moment. You know, the people who say like they don't want kids because they just want their free life. That's fine. You can do that. But my God, you don't know what you're missing. You can just have the highest highs when it comes to children. And I've had them in my house the past day or so.

Our oldest son came home from school and won the middle school spelling bee. All of his friends cheered for him. Even his last competitors cheered and they all got along and they supported one another. It was just so uplifting. You know, there's just those little moments where you're like, that's so cool. It's so great that today's my daughter's 12th birthday. She woke up to a bunch of balloons that we put in her room overnight. And when she got to school, her friends were outside waiting for her and gave her a big hug. She had a thousand watt smile when she got out of the car and went over to them this morning.

It was just so uplifting to see. And then my little guy was in the lower school talent show where I went this morning. And these boys, my gosh, the boldness. One kid got up there like third or fourth grade and he just danced for a whole song and he was amazing. Other kids, like this one kid played piano. It was like magic coming out of his fingers. I was almost in tears just at their courage, the fun, the support with the boys for one another. Of course, they said the pledge because we have chosen the right school for our family. Um, little Thatcher did a basketball trick shot thing. It was

just, can I tell you, they're not, they're not massive events. It's just the small moments, right? Those are the ones like that can bring the biggest joy. So I come to you today in a great mood and, um, just happy to be alive and happy to be able to talk to you about the small things and the big things. And the fact that I have two boys and a girl is relevant to today's discussion. They are one of the reasons why on the issue we're going to be going after today, I confess to you, I am becoming more of an activist than just a straight commentator. And for good reason, for really good reason. I mean, our entire culture is under threat right now. The very definition of womanhood is under attack and womanhood matters. The word woman matters. The fact that we have a Supreme Court justice who can't define it matters.

And there are few people on the globe today who saw that earlier than or who have done more to maintain that norm than our guest. All right. Now, she is here by popular demand. She is a British woman who has put it all on the line to defend women's rights. And my God, have they come for her. Her family, her reputation, at times even her own life has been at risk. Her name is Kelly J. Keene.

She sometimes goes by the moniker Posey Parker, which can be confusing because there's a very famous actor named Parker Posey. She was in some of the Christopher Guest movies. No relation. This is Posey Parker. But her real name is Kelly J. Keene, and that's what we're going to call her. A few years ago, Kelly J. started traveling internationally with her message, including right here to the USA on a tour called Let Women Speak. It's a platform to allow regular women, real women, also known as women, often in very liberal cities, to talk about how

they feel women's rights are being trampled on by trans activists who are the fiercest, most rabid activists of them all. Kelly Jay recently made international headlines when an event she was holding in New Zealand had to be shut down after some 5,000 of these activists showed up. And to say they treated her with scorn, disrespect, and threatening behavior is the understatement of the year. The scenes from the event are disturbing. She had to be escorted out by security, who had abandoned her for much of this event after being swarmed by the angry mob. At one point, she was doused in tomato soup and water. She was actually in fear for her life for good reason. Watch and listen to some sounds and sights of this mob and what she was up against. So for the listening audience, the mob is dozens deep.

I mean, you can barely see Kelly Jane there. And then on this second video, she's being escorted out. You can see she's wet from having been doused with something. She looks concerned. This is an incredibly brave woman, and even she looks scared.

And they threw tomato soup on her, and on and on it goes. No one has been arrested because they don't give a damn that these even entire countries are so scared of what Kelly J is saying. They just rather have her be assaulted and, and not say anything about it. Uh, Kelly J Keene is the founder of standing for women. And she joins me now, Kelly J what a pleasure. I'm so glad to meet you. Thank you for being here. Oh, likewise. Thank you so much.

I'm so sorry for what happened to you. I understand when you go to these events, you got to know something's coming. You know, there's going to be some sort of a protest. I think what you didn't expect was absolutely no police presence, no intervention on your behalf. Am I right? Yeah, 100%. I mean, I did go through the mob to get to the middle where I assumed the police were in a sort of safe, cordoned off area so women could gather and speak with you if you don't agree with their message? This is one of the reasons why they're so easy to reject, is it not? metaphorically beaten to death with a be kind sign. And we are peaceful and loving as they sort of step on your face. So it's, yeah, it's, it's the ultimate in hypocrisy and just gaslighting. So I was interested to read that you, and correct me if I'm wrong, started speaking out publicly about this as early as 2018 or 2019.

And in the evolution of this story, that's early. Yeah, well, I knew about this in 2015. I started speaking out in 2016, but seriously, with a message of a woman is an adult human female in 2018. But there were, you know, there were women writing books about this in the 1970s. Janice Raymond wrote a book called The Transsexual Empire that talked about the danger that this particular ideology posed to women. So I'm quite late. But yeah, this new incarnation of trans activism and the attack on women's rights. Yeah, I've been speaking about this seriously since 2018. I'm so late. I was on the other side for much of my professional career. I explained this to the audience the other day. I had a trans person in my family. It was an

absolute nuclear bomb that went off somebody by marriage. And I don't get into exactly who it was because that person has children. It's not my secret to reveal. But the point is, it was absolutely devastating for that portion of my family. And I felt bad for the person because this was back in like, I mean, right after the turn of the century, you know, the early 2000s, and nobody was really coming out as trans or having surgeries. So the bullying was pretty enormous. And I felt bad. It was still a small collection of people who were doing it. And I said, you know, just leave them alone, let them live. And it was still, in my view, limited to just the generally, like genuinely gender dysphoric people, you know, the few people, the very few people who are actually born with this confusion,

as opposed to what's happening right now. But I am, I am very, I see it very differently now. So how did you have the clarity that early on to see the dangers of what's happening here? Well, I think I came across some leftist groups. So I used to be on the left and I was on an online forum that was supposed to be just for women. And actually it was late, supposed late transitioning males that started coming in this group, supposedly for women in 2015. And they were just acting like entitled men. And so it was very difficult to leap into this notion that they actually were women. And what was really interesting is how much women fawn over those men. So those men will do things like do soft focus pictures. When

all women were talking about politics, they would put soft focus portraits of themselves. And then nobody was allowed to at all say that they were men. We had to all say that they were gorgeous and beautiful. And this just felt so uncomfortable. It was such a big lie that I started speaking up. And as soon as I did, I was just shouted at. It was horrendous. And so I just knew then I'm not allowed to talk about it. Therefore, I want to talk about it. And I want to understand why I'm being silenced on this issue. Were you just, I mean, are you just a spicy Brit? You know, are you just somebody who's like, the more you tell me I can't, the more I will?

Well, probably. I think, look, I was a stay-at-home mother. I was really, really happy with staying home with my four kids and I'm happily married and nothing had really got my goat, if you like, as much as this. And then this was like, you know, I've got a, I'm a married and nothing had really got my goat, if you like, as much as this. And then this was like, you know, I've got a, I'm a really confident woman. I'm very outspoken. I'm really sort of, you know, out there and I will speak my mind. But I've got a daughter who's

an introvert. She won't be telling a man in her space to get out. And so I just thought, well, I need to step up. And if I'm not going to do it, then who is going to do it? And I guess a few years later, we realized that it had to be me. It's spun out of control. right around there, where it was still very rare and very much the subject of scorn to come out as trans person, to where we are now, where even if you say biological sex is real, you could be labeled a bigot and lose a job. Well, I think we've got here through so many, there's so many threads to this. There's number one, the amount of money the um medical

industry make from lifelong patients uh when they transition them as children you've got i am jazz that sold as entertainment which is just watching the slow decline of a very uh confused man uh used to be boy now man um just watch his life slip away in front of him i think that's that's not helped culture you had caitlyn jenner that came out and was celebrated within six months he was woman of the year and he'd only been one for six months um and i i use that loosely because i don't call any men women um and it's just been this consistent be kind kind throughout our schools. Media has been horrendous. Your media is so sewn up, a lot of your mainstream media, that people aren't even allowed to raise questions. So I think it's all of these threads that are leading to this. And, um, and now here we are. When I saw the mob attacking you, when I

saw the mob here in the States attacking Riley Gaines a week ago today, I think it was, uh, out at San Francisco State University. I thought to myself, who are these people? How are there thousands attacking you? How are there hundreds on this campus attacking her? This is a disorder. It was recognized as a psychiatric disorder up until about yesterday by the American Psychiatric Society under pressure from these activists. They now just call it gender dysphoria, but it was recognized as a psychiatric disorder, gender dysphoric disorder. How have they multiplied in so many numbers when we know net-net, it's still a relatively small percentage of the population?

Well, to be brutal, when it comes to boys, I think it's online pornography. I think that is totally corrupting most things that our young men are doing. And I think online pornography, when I've talked to mothers of teenage boys who start identifying as girls, that is the route for a lot of boys. And for girls, we know that social contagion actually exists. We watch girls, groups of girls starve or cut themselves. And this is just the latest in a long line of self-loathing of females. And even girls that don't call themselves trans, they might call themselves non-binary or gender non-conforming having their breasts sliced off and your country uh as opposed to mine it will do that it will slice the breasts off of teenage girls it's it's just barbarism it's

so just evil in in the uk are they not doing um surgeries on minors for cross-gender procedures? service. But it's got parameters on the basis of how much money it can spend. And you're not restricted by that. So yeah, I mean, fancy cutting off those hospitals. I spoke to a nurse, and they were doing about six surgeries a day on teenage girls, just one hospital in your country. Well, there was news out of Washington State just this morning that yesterday the house, the state house, again, this is the state legislature, passed a bill that would make it okay for homeless shelters to not notify the parents if a teenager shows up there who says they're trans, who says they're fleeing the safety and security of their home with their parents because their parents are not affirming them. So the homeless shelters under this bill could keep the teen, continue the, quote, affirming care and not tell the parents that's where we are. It's just so it's I think if you tell someone that doesn't know anything about this issue,

that that is happening in the United States of America. I think they think you're insane because that's such a long way off of child safeguarding. And what is the right and proper thing to do with regards to kids? I mean, just changing pronouns at school, I think it's bad enough. But a child that's clearly so distressed that they've run away from home is now offered a safe sanctuary in a place where nobody loves them, nobody cares what happens to them, but they can totally lie to parents or not tell parents that they've been found. I think it's like what on earth is going on where we have arrived at a point where that would be even suggested, let alone actually happening.

Right. Approved by a significant majority in the House in Washington state. So two other news items. One is in the state of California today. There's news that a woman who is suing a school district for transitioning her child, who is a girl, without the mother's knowledge or approval or involvement of any kind. So she's suing, good for her. And she spoke at the school board meeting saying, how dare you? How could you do this without my approval? And change her pronouns. And by the way, the girl was just distressed because there'd been a death in the family. That's what it was about. And went to a guidance counselor and said, maybe I'm a boy. I don't know what's wrong with me. And affirmed within moments, you are a boy.

And then the school worked with this girl, 11-year-old, without the parent's notice, notification or involvement to change her sex, quote unquote, right? Change her gender. So now the mother's suing and spoke out at the school board meeting saying, how dare you? But they voted to keep the policy because they had a trans activist named Squeaky St. Francis at Chino Unified. It's a public school who said the following. Look at this person. I will speak loud for those who cannot speak. I am a proud he, she, they, them, whatever. Every child needs to control when they out themselves. If you take away this ability, this control from these children to out themselves,

you are forcefully putting them into a possibly violent household. All right. For the listening audience, what we have there is this enormous man who, you know, is clearly obese in a dress with a beard, with very long hair. That that person convinced them to keep the policy as is keep the parents out. The policy remains a firm without the parents' knowledge. I mean, come on, Megan. If you or I are looking for advice about how to raise our kids, we're looking at that man also. I mean, just, I don't understand what people are seeing, I just, I sometimes look at the propaganda in both our countries, and I just have no idea how so many people are so stupid that they can be convinced by such

blatant erosion of child safeguarding. Because it doesn't really matter whether you agree with this ideology or not. I don't. But it doesn't really matter if you do or not. We've had child safeguarding that should be rigid, really unwavering in order to protect children. That's the whole point of it. And we're just throwing it all away. So that was San Bernardino, California. And the thing about the children

is the most important thing. I mean, it's important at every level, but to maintain the fact that there is such a thing as a woman and it's not changeable, but when you start to deal with kids, we're in a different territory. And so that leads me to my last news item before we get to a broader discussion, which I'm looking forward to with you. Um, there's, do you know, have you heard about this? The show that it's a YouTube show called Mr. Beast.

This guy, Mr. Beast. Yes, I have. My son watches it. Yes. So most kids watch it. The guy's got 144 million followers. Mr. Beast is a guy named Jimmy Donaldson who's a genius. He's only 24 years old. I saw him speak recently.

He was utterly charming. He's obviously brilliant. He puts out fun, mostly pretty universally positive content, giving away money, helping cure blind people, fun contests that result in helping the weak or the poor. And people love it. buddies, has gone trans. His name is Chris Tyson. And Chris Tyson, who was the manliest character on the Mr. Beast offerings on YouTube, he was a mountain man. If they went camping, he was the one who would put up the tent. This is a picture for the people who are watching it on YouTube, the before and after. This is Chris on the right after two months of what he says is hormone replacement therapy. On old people like me, that's an appropriate remedy for menopausal women who want to get their fire back. On a man, it transforms you into something that looks very odd, but closer to female. And so here he is now. He was married. He has a two-year-old son. That's over. The wife's now divorcing him. He's online defending his choices, saying, my son is awesome, has absolutely no problem with this. My two-year-old's

totally on board. And Mr. Beast continues to feature him during the midst of this transition like it's nothing. And there was a great, great piece. Help me out, Debbie. It was in The Federalist. Where did we see this piece? Yeah, The Federalist. And she writes, Mr. Beast is introducing millions of children to transgenderism without parental consent. Talking about how bit by bit you're seeing this guy transition.

Millions. My kids watch this to see him give money away or you know see him do silly things like eat burgers on you know all hours and then reward people with dough for watching him not to see this guy slowly but surely purporting to change into a woman with his long long nails and this is what the writer and the federalist says jimmy's complicit mr, is complicit in projecting this adult content into millions of homes, quietly slipping this into his programming. And further, both Jimmy and this other guy have made their support public for Chris Tyson. He is grooming an unsuspecting generation of children

into uncritically accepting transgender and trans activism at a vulnerable age. And worse, it's unmonitored access that Jimmy, Mr. Beast, has to millions of kids across the globe. Most parents like me didn't even know this was a thing until about two minutes ago. So what do you make of it? Well, my kids are a little bit older so my youngest is 14 and what he seems to think is that mr beast looks entirely uncomfortable uh with the whole situation but is fearful from the the vitriol um and the counseling that he might receive if he actually takes any stand whatsoever. Now, my son, all my kids are well aware of what a woman is. And so maybe they're not so persuaded. And maybe other kids are going to watch this man

and see this sort of transition in real time. And I probably agree from a safeguarding from a parent point of view, it is not at all appropriate to be parading what I would consider a man's fetish in front of an audience of kids. It's just not appropriate. There it is. Okay, let's talk about that. You've been making this point, and this is so illuminating to me, because we learned this with Leah Thomas and you went to watch Leah Thomas swim at one of these NCAA tournaments. Good for you because this is, you've made this your business and it's been very illuminating. Leah Thomas, we now know thanks to the Daily Wire's reporting, has autogynephilia

where you get off, you're turned on as a man by dressing as a woman. It arouses you. That's not trans. That's not, you know, from two, I knew I was born in the wrong body. That's like a sexual fetish. It's a kink. And Leah Thomas should have been nowhere near those female swimmers getting off while in his women's bathing suit, crushing them in the pool lane. But it seems like a fair percentage of these so-called trans people are actually working out their sexual kink on us. I mean, can you speak to that? Yeah, 100%. I think most men, teenage boys is a totally different thing. And even some of those teenage boys will have autogynephilia. But yeah, these men are aroused by themselves as women. We call women that experience this with their husbands, we call them trans widows because they really do,

they are victims of the most appalling coercive control within that relationship. It's really, really abusive. And so these women know, and I've been speaking about this for a long time, but what often happens with trans widows is they're called stunning and brave and how wonderful they are to accept their husbands. And they find it really, really difficult to speak about the reality of living with these men. But yes, of course, a man in his 50s who's been who remains heterosexual, but claims that all of a sudden he's got gender dysphoria. No, I'm not buying any of it. And I think we also know that men with a fetish of paedophilia, they will do something like join a church so they've got access to children,

and they will do that for their entire lives. So I think we have to be really mindful to understand if somebody is controlled and compelled by fetish, there's pretty much nothing that they won't do to be able to exercise that fetish. And autogynephilia will include the desire to make you and I uncomfortable in female-only spaces. They will get off and enjoy themselves,

knowing that we find it uncomfortable, awkward, that our speech is compelled. All the things that are happening to us as women in our society is part of, I believe, is part of this sexual fetish. This is making my blood boil and sounds so exactly right. And by the way, back to the guy on Mr. Beast, Chris Tyson, it was outed last night on the internet that this guy's tweets, even prior to this becoming public, are deeply disturbing. You may or may not be surprised to learn a fair amount of misogyny on there, going after women repeatedly, these privileged, entitled C-words. You know, he's got an issue with the sex he now claims he is he shares um he uh he appears to have expressed a quote extreme affinity for deeply problematic anime and um i'll get the actual i want to figure out where we got this but it was all over the internet yesterday finding his

old tweets he sent out a tweet in 2016 that reads, now he's deleted it last night after it went more public. Nothing gets my knob cranking like some lowly, L-O-L-I. Lowly is apparently female, childlike characters in anime. It's become synonymous with pedophilic depiction of sexualized young girls or babies in anime. So to your point, there's something wrong with this guy. This is extremely creepy. And he put it out there publicly. And now we're seeing him suddenly say, oh, I'm trans. Accept me and let me beam right into your child's bedroom on his YouTube as he's just trying to watch Mr. Beast's antics.

Yeah, well, Loli is Lolita after the book about paedophilia, for want of a better word. So it's massive, like hentai and anime, that whole thing. It just really blurs childlike images and sexualized behavior. It really is. The whole thing, I think, with anime is dangerously close. But you've got other places where kids get groomed online. It might be bronies, is uh adult men who like my little pony uh the kids toy there's a lot of crossover furries is another thing um you know

take a deep dive into this world and and you don't come up feeling very great about humanity, I can promise you. Right. I mean, this is not like, as a rule, just a bunch of very super well, mentally well people who just were, quote, born in the wrong body. That's how it's being sold. If you want to be honest about it, the truth for many is a lot darker. And we better start getting honest about that truth because that truth is showing up in our locker rooms, in our swim meets, in our most beloved children's programming, and parents need to be aware. All right, so stand by because we're going to pick it up more. I love to hear you talk about the pronouns and why you don't say them. This is something I've been

struggling with. A lot of people do. How we should be having our kids handle that issue is more and more. They're being asked. Our totally normal kids are being asked to say their pronouns. We'll pick it up there right after this quick, quick break. Don't go away. Just two corrections from our earlier block. I tell you, it was Chico Unified Schools in California, out of Chico, California. And the source for that Chris Tyson reporting on his tweets was Redux Magazine. So Kelly J., let's get into it. Let's talk about, can we talk about the pronouns? Because I know you don't say them.

And this has been an ongoing debate. Matt Walsh doesn't believe in saying them. You know, I don't think Ben Shapiro, my pal over at Daily Wire, says them. I've been saying them. I've been saying them. And I've run into a brick wall when I've gotten to Dylan Mulvaney because I see that Dylan Mulvaney is a faker. Just like as clear as the day is long. Dylan Mulvaney wants to be famous. Dylan Mulvaney is out there just completely patronizing us, bastardizing us. And I refuse, I don't believe

Dylan Mulvaney has any sort of disorder. I believe Dylan wants to be a star. So I've run into it now. Why do you not say the pronouns that they choose? So, okay. So the pronouns are like a gateway drug, if you like, to accepting this ideology. So you've got, there's a really good essay called Pronouns Are a Hypno. And what it talks about is the fact that once you say she, it's really difficult to police our boundaries successfully. So if I'm out to dinner and there's somebody at the table and it's she all night, it's very difficult to say, she can't use the women's toilets.

She can't run in the girls' athletics. She can't swim in the girls' athletics. She can't swim in the girls' swim team. And so I just think it's not a courtesy. It's damaging for women. Every time we allow these men to creep into our language, we erode a little bit of our own boundaries. And so I just absolutely refuse to do it. I don't care how much effort.

I don't care whether they've had surgery. As far as I'm concerned, there is no man on this planet that deserves the pronoun she, her. So what do you tell your kids? Because now they're asked in various forums. What are your pronouns? My children really have avoided it. I've sort of told them it's not their hell to die on and it's social suicide so if they're really asked directly uh they can say it but uh you know i've

been doing this a long time so my children were primed before this uh ideology infested schools so um they haven't yet been asked their pronouns but But, you know, you can say your own pronouns if you like. You can say, look, that's not an ideology I go along with. That's what my kids would say. I've told my kids because we're in a woke hell in the northeast United States. I've told my kids you can just simply respond, I don't feel comfortable talking in those terms. Yeah.

And, look, I think you can try and avoid those conversations completely as a teenager. But I said to my children, you don't have to lie. So if somebody says, do you think that person is a woman? You don't have to say yes. But you could say, I don't think it's appropriate to talk about it. I think it causes too much division. There's many ways to avoid the conversation. But look, I just think with the pronouns, it's almost okay what you want to do personally. But if you're advocating for others, if you have a platform to speak, such as in the media, and you're an incredibly strong and successful woman like you, then I think it would be great if you held the line because so many women look up to you that I think I would really

love to see you hold that line quite tight. I've really been wrestling with it lately. I'll have a lot of my viewers and audience say, use the right pronoun, meaning the biological pronoun. And I just never wanted to be disrespectful, but it's gone beyond a matter of compassion or respect at this point. As I said at the top of the show, we're playing for much higher stakes now. Womanhood itself is under threat. Our spaces, our wellness, our safety, you know, from prisons to locker rooms and so on. We had a debate on the show recently when it hit the news that somebody had gone into a YMCA, a 17 year old girl took to the microphones out at the San Diego YMCA saying, I saw a man, a naked man in the locker room. And I don't think I should be subjected to that, nor should my six-year-old sister. Then the person came out who wasn't the man, who was a trans person.

And this guy was saying, I had the surgery and there's no way she saw a penis. Now, we don't know whether that's true or not. But what if the person did have a surgery? What if it's a biological man who had the surgery, now looks like they have female anatomy? Should that person be allowed to use the female locker room? No, because it goes back again to fetish. And so there will be some men that actually do have their genitals inverted and removed, and they will still do it for a fetish.

And look, it's not for women to make men feel more comfortable about themselves. It's women's faces are for women to feel comfortable about ourselves and to feel that we have safety and dignity and privacy. So I just think under no circumstances should women be expected to move over. Because every time we do, every time we include men in our space, we exclude so many women who then won't be able to go to that space. There are more victims of sexual assault, more female victims of sexual assault in the United States of America than there are men pretending to be women. How do you know if it's the fetish thing or if it's actual gender dysphoria, which a very, very small percentage of the population does suffer from? Well, I think the point is that you don't know. I mean, I would say it's at least 90% of men who

claim to be women do it for a sexual fetish, but I could be completely wrong. It could be 50-50. It doesn't actually matter because I still don't want them in our spaces. You know, my husband's a really nice man, a really, really lovely man, and I don't want him in female spaces either. And he doesn't want to go in. You know, decent men don't want to make women and girls feel uncomfortable by using our space. There is not a man, I would, I say that there are not men who don't have predatory tendencies who want to enter into female spaces, knowing it would make some of those women in that space uncomfortable. So I just, you know, it doesn't really matter what their motivation is. They just have to stay out. Yeah. I knew somebody whose spouse said that they wanted to start dressing as a woman during sex.

And the person thought, well, you know, I guess if this gets him off, who does it harm? Well, that person's now a full-blown transsexual, like had the surgery, the whole bit. But it began, as you are saying, he got off on putting on women's clothing, and that's what turned him on. So, I mean, it is very problematic to allow these people into the very spots where we change our clothes. We take our pants down to use the toilet. We send our little girls. We were being asked to pretend it's not part of the dynamic. Yeah. I mean, many of the spokespeople in the United States, you've got a man called Alok who says that little girls, five-year-old girls, little girls are kinky. You know, a lot of these men talk about rape fantasies, how the ultimate in being a woman is to be submissive and be raped.

These are a lot of men that are now seen by the Biden administration, for example, as people that should be spokeswomen. It's ludicrous. It's a little bit like the Catholic Church of old. And I don't want to cast any aspersions amongst Catholics because I have very many good friends. And I know the majority of Catholics are really decent human beings. But there were some men that use the advantage of unfettered access to people, to women and children. Just by putting this robe on, I don't see transgenderism as any different. Once you say you're part of the LGBTQ plus community, which let's face it might be that you once fancied a man in a dress and you're a man yourself. You don't even have to do anything to be queer. You could just

say you're queer. Once you do that, you can pretty much do whatever you want. Nobody's going to ask you any questions whatsoever about your motivations, your motives, and whether you're fit to be wherever you want to be. I heard you interview with, uh, our friend Peter Boghossian and you had such a great line. I had never heard somebody say it this way. Um, you said, I prefer not to be part of someone's sexual fetish. Yes, exactly. Right. I think that's true of all those women on the Leah Thomas swim team. Like if they could have found the way of saying that, that's exactly, I prefer not to be part of someone it's like to feel a man looking at you with a particular sort of gaze. And I don't mean that it's all men everywhere you go, but we know what it feels like. There's a difference between someone looking at you and someone looking at you in a really sexual kind of uncomfortable way.

And I don't think many men understand it, but I think we do. And so we know that we don't want that gaze for our daughters, for any women that we care about, for vulnerable women, or even for ourselves. I don't want to be sort of looked at like that. And so that's why I think it's often women get, it's often women get it. We, we know creepy men. And I consider most of those men that call themselves women, creepy men. There used to be a time where you could get away with them from them. You know, even when you go to prison, you could make sure you went to the women's prison and that they wouldn't be in there. And now they're getting the creepiest of all men, men who have been

convicted of sex crimes, moved into their prison. Actual thing that's happening out in places like California. It's insane. Let's talk about back up on the definition of a woman. I know you've answered this a million times, but for our audience who hasn't heard you, you know, since our Supreme Court Justice Katonji Brown Jackson can't say it. Can you? What is a woman? It's an adult human female.

And why is it important to define a woman that way? Well, back in 2018, I was trying to work out what is the nucleus of this? Like, what is right at the center of this erasure of women? And I was like, well, it's the language. We're being called cervix havers and menstruators and birthing persons. In the United Kingdom, for example, any of our cancer literature about cervical cancer, we are referred to as cervix havers, not women. Now, that's pretty appalling anyway. But when you think about women who speak English as a second language, they don't know they're cervix havers. They know that they're women though.

So it's also quite dangerous. And I just think it's really important that if you can't talk about us, then you can't protect us. If when you talk about women, we have no idea who we're talking about, then you have no chance of protecting our rights and our language and our spaces, because we have to then start talking in caveats, like a woman, you know, an adult human female, and it just becomes quite preposterous. And this isn't happening to men's language. So testicular cancer in the UK, when they write about testicular cancer, they talk about men. So it really is just happening to

women. And it couldn't be, you know, I just think that this latest incarnation of misogyny is kind of misogyny in stilettos. It's just so bad. Right. It's actually, it's, it's misogyny on steroids, or maybe on estrogen, as the case may be. So how would you refer to like a Caitlyn Jenner? Would you call Caitlyn Jenner a trans woman or just a biological man? How would you, if you were trying to explain to somebody what happened with Bruce, now Caitlyn Jenner, what would you say? I would just say it's a man who calls himself a woman. Okay.

So you don't use the term trans woman or trans man? No, not at all. How come? No. I'm just not calling a man a subcategory of women because they're not. They're just men, and they behave like entitled men. You know, I've been in a room with Caitlyn Jenner and I'm sure he's a very nice human being uh to a point but he uses women's spaces and so uh no he doesn't he's not

a woman he's not a subcategory of woman there is nothing about him that I feel is uh remotely womanly and so no I wouldn't use that word. It's a very special word. We're quite special human beings. We give birth to babies. I'm not sharing that with men. That's fascinating. I've been a lot softer on Caitlin than I have been on somebody like a Dylan because he seemed to kind of get into our lane and be quiet about it. I don't know, not too quiet in the beginning, but since, and has been defending women's sports and so on, doesn't seem like somebody who's constantly desperate for attention and to take over all our spaces. So to me, I kind of see Caitlin differently, but I see your point about the pronouns and the acceptance of anybody who's trying to do this as gateway drugs as, you know,

once you open that door, it's a very slippery slope. Yeah. And it's, you know, once you open that door, it's a very slippery slope. Yeah. And it's, you know, we don't, we, we sort of language isn't about offering kindness or courtesy language is about accurate description. So we all know what we're talking about. And so I just, I don't see it makes any sense to call a man, uh, any subcategory of women. Do you ever have an encounter with a trans person who's not a hater of you, right? Who's not trying to throw tomato juice all over you, where you go with the actual pronoun, the correct pronoun, and there's an awkwardness?

I mean, how does that go? Well, you'll be surprised to know, Megan, I don't have a lot of friends who call themselves trans. But look, the people I have met who are sort of around in that culture will be detransitioners. And then it's just heartbreaking. It's so heartbreaking to watch somebody who kind of looks like a man, but not quite like a man and is a man, but has identified as a woman for a short time or quite a long time and is really damaged.

So that's when pronouns are quite tricky, actually, because sometimes you'll be standing in front of somebody, particularly girls, because they get facial hair, who is definitely female, looks a little more male because of the facial hair, which I think is far more of a trick. I think girls passes men more easily than men ever passes women. So sometimes I will trip on pronouns in those situations. But I still wouldn't do it. I mean, we rarely use pronouns about somebody when you're in front of them anyway. So it's a situation that doesn't come up often. But I would,

I just really don't see these men as women. And so my natural kind of language would be to use male language. And so to the women out there or men who are feeling inspired by what you're saying and looking for the courage to join you or find the right language to articulate their positions as you do, what's your message? I think you just have to speak the truth. And I think it's, it's a fundamental human need not to go insane to speak the truth. If you have to open your mouth and lie, then I think it does something to our psyche. I think it's really damaging, specifically, particularly for children. I think it's horrendous to force children into this sort of compelled speech. But I say to people, if you're in a work situation and it's essential for you to keep your job, to use this compelled speech.

And you should say in your own head what you know to be true, just so you don't feel gaslit and you don't, you know, sell a little bit of your soul every time you open your mouth. Because I can't imagine what it would be like to be in sort of an office situation and have to use this nonsensical language and know that you're sort of being compelled to do it. It must be just soul destroying. Yeah, it is. And finding the voice to articulate your genuinely held beliefs is liberating.

Kelly J., please come back. It's such a pleasure to meet you. Thank you. To be continued. Wow. So nice to meet her. Haters, I don't care. She's an important voice in this whole debate, and I'll be listening a lot more to her. Supporters of so-called gender-affirming care often proclaim that this approach is the approach. It can reduce emotional distress. It can improve a sense of well-being. It will reduce the risk of suicide in trans-identifying people.

But is any of that true? A new documentary, Affirmation Generation, The Lies of Transgender Medicine, takes on these claims and turns them upside down with real stories from real people who have been failed by gender affirming care. Joining us now to discuss our executive producer, Joey Bright, detransitioner Kat Cadenson, and therapist Stephanie Nguyen, who are all featured in the documentary. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Great to have you here. Thank you, Megan. Great to be here. So Joey, let me start with you. You are the EP of this documentary and somebody who was pulled into this world of affirming care yourself eventually. What made you want to do this film? Because I knew that if I were eight years old today and living in California, and I was a very rambunctious tomboy, I also know I was very attracted to other girls.

And if I were in elementary school today and said anything about feeling like a boy, or I wanted somebody to call me Mike or whatever at school, and they started doing it, And I told my parents and they said, no, no way. I know that I could complain to the school. And now in California, as of just a couple of weeks ago, there's a new bill that passed. I could contact CPS or the school could contact CPS and I would end up in the foster care system. Child Protective Services. You had a very different experience because you're not, you know, you weren't born in 1996. Right. Where you went to a therapist. 1955. Right. So you went to a therapist who you credit with saving your life because things used to look very different. Tell us what your therapist said to you. Yeah, I was really hoping that I could somehow, I knew that it was going to take some sort of a medical process of some way. And I'd heard about testosterone. And I deliberately found a lesbian therapist who I knew herself was gender nonconforming. And I went to the first session and I told her that I knew that I was really a man and I needed her help. And she looked at me and she had sort of a smirk on her face. And she said, you're not a man. You're never going to be a man. You're a lovely butch woman. And

I want to help you to learn to love yourself. I hope that I can help you on that journey. I love that. I love that. You're a lovely butch woman. I've been saying for so long, our tent is very big. The women tent is very big. You can have the long blonde hair with the pretty pink sweater, or you can have the short hair with the black glasses. It doesn't make you a man if you look more butch, right? Or if you happen to want to get it on with women. And we were targeted. What do you mean? We were targeted with street grade testosterone by some kind of salesperson that I regretted later that I didn't ask him for a business card, but instead I told him to get the hell out of here when he approached a group of us outside

of a pop-up lesbian bar back in the nineties and And, uh, had a little, he had a little blue plastic vial with pills. And I, after I told him to get the hell out of here and he, he did, I yelled to him, you know, what's in there. And, uh, he said, testosterone, I got what you want. I got what you need. That's exactly what he said to us. That's scary. And as you point out, if you had been in today's medical care system, you could have, you could have a disfigured forearm right now because they cut it up to make a fake phallus. You know, they, they, you could have been the victim of top surgery. You didn't want or need, you could have been stuffed full of hormones that you didn't want or need

that are genuinely life changing and potentially damaging and could render you infertile. I mean, that's, I assume, why you wanted to make the film. Yes, that and many reasons. I mean, when I was first being an advocate for women's rights and child safeguarding, the child safeguarding really pumped up because I had never thought that they were going to go after kids. I thought they were just experimenting with lesbians, that that was a hated, targeted area. And along comes the internet and a lot more time, and then along comes all of this grooming. I just put all the all the stuff together and it just made me more and more to the point where in 2021 I helped to orchestrate over 13

protests against pediatric gender clinics and no big I contacted everybody to come and film us and it wasn't until the very last protest that we had at Los Angeles Children's Hospital in October of 2021 that Fox News showed up. And I had been talking to the producer. They shot a lot of footage, but they're the only ones in terms of mainstream media. Good for them.

Honestly, it's moments like, of course, I worked at Fox for 17 years, but it's moments like that I want people to remember as Fox is getting dragged in the news for the lawsuit and the dominion. And that'll all play out in a court of law the way it should, I'm sure. But that's why Fox News is so important, because they will tell the stories like this one that the rest of the media will ignore for ideological reasons before I bring in our other two guests I want to show the audience a little clip from affirmation generation I want to tell them as well that it is available at affirmation generation movie.com affirmation generation movie.com here's a bit of a clip on the comorbidities that detransitioners featured in the film suffer from? I knew there was something more than just depression and anxiety and autism. I felt like it was something else.

And initially I thought that something else was filled by gender dysphoria. I think that being sexually assaulted absolutely contributed to my gender dysphoria getting stronger and wanting to be a woman even less. I was diagnosed with ADHD, autism spectrum disorder, traits of borderline personality disorder, traits of post-traumatic stress from childhood bullying. I had suffered from an eating disorder. I had had a suicide attempt. From the time I was 11 or 12, I developed

anorexia nervosa. And then years later, it led me to develop body dysmorphia, which I falsely, wrongly attributed to being gender dysphoria. And it's one thing, right, Kat, you're featured in that montage saying that you had a sexual assault in your history, that you had an eating disorder. It is one thing for you to go through those traumas and then get confused about what the source of your anxiety is. Is it gender? Is that going to make me feel better? It is quite another for all the professionals around you to uniformly be pushing you to quote, change your gender, transition your gender. So tell us how your journey sort of evolved from your anxieties to yes, you're in the wrong body. Yeah. So I want to contrast my experience with Joey's a little bit

because I was a person born closer to 1996, not in 1996, but definitely a different era in terms of how the medical field responds to gender dysphoria. And I was even in the early wave of transitioners and detransitioners. I started identifying as trans when I was 13 after finding an online, a website and forum for FTM people, which is, you know, in the trans community, that's female to male transgender people. So women who take testosterone, get double mastectomies, et cetera. And, you know, I also had, I had trauma from being bullied and I had a lot of mental health conditions.

I'd started to develop an eating disorder and I started to attribute all of my other problems to, well, it's just because I'm born in the wrong body. And it just, it felt like an easier fix somehow within like actually confronting my issues. I don't think I was capable of it at that point. And the first gender therapist I saw was when I was 17 years old. And, you know, rather than like Joey's therapist who tried to help her accept herself as she was, my therapist affirmed me within the first two appointments and started calling me he, him. He told my parents during appointment three that he thought I should start testosterone at 17. And, you know, thankfully

they, they were not on board with that. And, um, you know, I, I still had a lot of problems. I wasn't very stable. And so, you know, not having, you know, the trans community will say it's awful. They didn't affirm me, but you know, if they had, I could be infertile right now. I could have so many more health issues if I had started that young. But I ended up starting later on when I was in my late twenties. And at that point, I just called up Planned Parenthood to, you know, I thought there'd be a process, which is what the trans community will also say often is like, you have to go through therapy or you have to live for a certain amount of time as your preferred gender. But I was prescribed testosterone after just 30 minutes. Despite bringing up my comorbidities, I was just instantly affirmed and

I got my prescription the same day. So things have changed a lot from when Joey went to her therapist and I had my experience with gender care. That's shocking. I mean, where are the Joey therapists? They're gone. You're just an awesome, beautiful, butch lesbian. Live it, love it, sister. Welcome. They're gone because, and I want to bring in Stephanie for a minute here. Stephanie, thank you for being here. You're a therapist because the entire psychiatric community, the mantra, the commitment is affirm, period. Exactly. As therapists, we've been sold a bill of lies and we've essentially been convinced when it comes to gender, not to do our jobs, not to explore the root causes of our patient's distress, not to favor our patient's long-term health and well-being,

but instead to just agree with their self-diagnosis and enforce their delusions and lead them down a medical pathway instead of investigating psychological treatments for psychological conditions. Is it true that this, quote, gender-affirming care is the only care that is officially recommended by the American Association or Academy of Pediatrics? Well, I don't know about the AAP, but it's certainly not true that that's the only form of treatment. I think Joey's story can attest to that. recently, the approach that was used was one called watchful waiting, which simply means that if a young person is presenting with gender related distress, no intervention is needed. Just give that person time to mature and develop because as stories like Joey's will attest to, many of the people who grow up feeling like they're somehow different, they're gender atypical,

grow up to be gay and lesbian. And they need time to figure that out. They need to struggle through their identity in adolescence, just as all of us struggle through matters of identity and belonging in adolescence and eventually come to terms with their sexuality. There can also be many other reasons for gender-related distress, like the ones that Kat has talked about. And increasingly, as this has become so popular, we see that young people with almost any form of mental distress have learned because of social influence to attribute that distress to their gender when there could be many other causes. So watchful waiting is the traditional approach. And there are many approaches to therapy that can help people grapple with whatever is causing them distress. I believe in treating the root cause of

the issue. Many of these young people have traits of borderline personality disorder due to complex trauma, for example, and so dialectical behavioral therapy would be the gold standard of care. There are many options besides so-called gender-affirming care. And the deep problem about this is it's not like taking a Benadryl when you need a Tylenol. They set you down a path that's going to create so many more problems for you. Meantime, they haven't addressed the problem that really brought you into the therapist's office.

So now you just have a Santa scroll-like list of issues that have not been addressed, that have been exacerbated. And Kat, that brings me back to you because can we just spend a minute on the sexual assault and why that was a comorbidity that needed to be addressed, the trauma from that.

But do you think that did lead you? Was it related to your gender questioning? At the time, it was very subconscious, but I think it really strengthened my gender dysphoria. I already suffered from gender dysphoria from when I was young for various reasons. But it happened when I was in high school, I was sexually assaulted. And I definitely think that that exacerbated my distress and made me feel more urgent about wanting to medicalize and appear as a man. And that, you know, and that's, at that point, I think was when I asked my parents to take me to the gender therapist.

And of course my parents thought it was just, oh, here's a specialist that will help her work through her issues and like help her accept herself. And that wasn't what happened at all. Yeah. Abigail Schreier writes about that in Irreversible Damage, which I'm sure you're all familiar with, saying how the parents need to be very careful before just taking your kid into a therapist on this. You've got to find the right therapist because otherwise you're just going to get a firmer firmer. You need to find a Stephanie who's open minded to wherever this is going to go and understands

that the vast, vast majority of kids who express any sort of dysphoric feelings are going to outgrow them. What are the percentages? I've heard so many different numbers on that, Stephanie, of the number of kids who will outgrow it. Oh, anywhere between 65 to 98%, depending on the study you look at, you have to consider the underlying factors. So back in Joey's day and age, when she was growing up before the cultural environment was what it was for Kat when she was growing up, for example, of course, the percentages of gender dysphoria were lower in general, but they were primarily associated with kids who would grow up to be gay or lesbian.

They were associated with gender non-conforming children. And so the studies show that the desistance rates are going to be higher depending on the psychosocial support. So a kid growing up in an environment that supports them coming to terms with their sexuality is ultimately more likely to grow their gender dysphoria than a kid growing up in a society with rigid gender roles that they can't relate to. Now that it's become a social contagion, I think the desistance rates, if the kids were simply left alone, would be much, much higher because there are so many kids who wouldn't have had gender dysphoria a generation ago. The only reason they have any problem with their sexed body now is because of social influence. And it's really tragic that we're making this trend into a

lifelong medical condition for these kids. I think the desistance rates, if kids were allowed to grow out of it at this day and age, would be very, very high. And the other dynamic is once they start down the road of transition, it's very hard to stop because the trans community will guilt you into staying with them. And they see you, Kat, I'm sure you know this firsthand, as a turncoat of sorts. It's very strange how it's like leaving a cult. You know how the first rule of leaving a cult is the cult has to turn on the escapee. Yeah, I think that the trans, I won't say every trans identifying person, but, you know, a lot of them do feel like detransitioners are a threat to them because, you know, the argument is that, of course, gender affirmation is the only treatment and that just this very, you know, at first it was no one detransitions.

Then it was a tiny, tiny percentage detransition. And, you know, I don't think they'd be trying to hide the number of detransitioners if they didn't feel it was a threat to their ideology. And that adds just another layer of stress, Joey, to these people like Kat who have recognized they're not actually trans. They didn't need any of these treatments. And now they've got people turning on them. And again, as we discussed, all the underlying problems have gone unaddressed. New problems have been added. And now you've got a group of very active bullies trying to shame you. I'd like to address the issue that you brought up about the AAP in that just this past October, Our Duty, which is a group here in the U.S. now, we protested in front of the conference for the American Academy of Pediatrics. It is very much the affirmation model is the only model that they are recommending. There's a doctor named Julia Mason.

She co-authored a piece called Resolution 27, which basically was begging the AAP to pay attention and say, you know, look what Sweden is doing. Look at what all these other countries are doing. Countries that were promoting this idea of a sex change, which we all know isn't real anyway, and they won't even listen to it. They didn't publish it. They would not promote it or anything. And so, Resolution 27 is something that's popping up now and again as we are planning more protests coming up in San Diego in May. Joy, what are the countries that we just had on a guest who was telling us in the UK they will not do these procedures on a minor. They won't even do the hormones on a minor.

The United States is very different. I've heard Sweden mentioned a few times as a country that's like the UK and saying no. What are the countries that have said no to this? I'd need help from Kat and Stephanie on this one. I don't know all the countries, but I know there are at least six, I believe, at this point. Sweden, Finland. Megan, have you covered what happened at the Tavistock Kids Clinic yet? Yes. Horrifying. And now it's closed yeah so why do you think any thoughts from any of you on why why are these countries over in europe so far ahead of us on reaching sanity on this issue what is it is it just wokeism is more ingrained here in america, the takeover of identity as the be-all, end-all? Why? Why are we not willing to accept progress on these issues and realize we've made a mistake?

Well, for one thing, Megan, all the countries that have reversed their policies have done, as far as I know, all of them have done systematic reviews of the evidence, which is exactly what, as Joey mentioned earlier, Dr. Julia Mason has called for and the AAP has suppressed. What's the matter with AAP, Joey? So go ahead, Kat, and then I'll bring in Joey. Go ahead. Oh, quickly, I just wanted to say, I also think it has to do with the political polarization here and the two-party system. Like, for instance, in the UK, there are more political parties with more nuanced views versus like, for instance, people on the left here, a lot of them will support, you know, children transitioning, for instance, because they're like, Oh, well, it must

be the right thing to do, because I'm on the left, and the left supports gay rights and women's rights, etc. And they think any, anything that the conservatives are saying must be bad, because it's so polarized here. And I don't think it's quite the same in countries like the UK. So people are able to look at things from a more complex perspective. And you're all of the left, are you not? Like politically? Disaffected. I've been red pilled.

Yeah. This is a way of doing that. I don't think after you've talked to politicians like i've testified in front of the california senate for instance um and shared my story and i was gaslit and told that that couldn't have happened to me because trans people have to go through months or years of um evaluation and therapy before getting hormones and so they refused to believe my story um they're really rude to me. And I just realized they're not able to see reason. They're not objective. They have an agenda. And so I don't really trust either

political party at this point. Yeah. I'm in the same boat as Kat and Joey. I was always very liberal until a few years ago, and now I'm politically homeless. And I had a very similar experience to Kat. Of course, they weren't gaslighting me based on my personal experience, but I sat right next to my friend, detransitioner Camille Kiefel, who gave her testimony. And I watched these Democrat state representatives who seemed very confident that they were on the right side of history, just dismissing her experience. And when you've been through something like that, it leaves you feeling without a team. Yeah. Yeah, I know. It can get you voting for the 800-pound gorilla, Orange Man Bad. Like, that's really what, it's like, Rick Grinnell came on the show, and he said a line which has stayed with me.

He's like, these people must be stopped. They can't even tell you what a woman is. It's like, well, I've never heard somebody boil down the argument for Republicans better than that. But, Joey, what is it? There's too much money. I can't say this enough. Jennifer Billick, who's in the film as well, she's an artist turned like accidental investigative journalist starting in 2013 in New York, where she was involved in the Green Movement and colleagues of hers had asked her, hey, we'd like to come to New York and do a talk. Can you find us a place to gather? Remember, this is 2013, New York City.

She said, no problem. Great. She started to look at one venue that would say, yes, sure. And then all of a sudden get a phone call. Sorry, we can't give you the venue. No real reasons. Go to another venue. She fell through a few of those

from what i understand and then she thought what is going on here all of these normal conference rooms and things like that where you can rent space we're turning them down why because the organization that she was trying to get a meeting space for, believed in biological reality. And that is some of the beginnings. We're talking 2013. Since then, Jennifer started doing writings about this. She's got the 11th Hour blog. It is an undeniable breakdown of people like the Pritzker family,

the money that was given to the Obama campaign, which had I known then what I know now, I don't know if I would have been one of those Obama warriors, because I was really heavy into the Obama scene in the Bay Area, recruited a lot of people to vote for Obama. I had no idea that there were already things in place to be able to push the whole bathroom issue. Remember how that was such a big deal? It was like the bathrooms. And it started with that. And it just went from there.

And Jennifer Pritzker, Martine Rothblatt. There are so many wealthy, mostly men. There are a number of women with huge investments in guess what big pharma medical appliances striker corporation um we're talking this the tentacles of this is it's so huge but it's captured all of our media and we we've exported it. If you wonder why other countries haven't stopped, haven't backed off, this is what's going on. And unfortunately, I don't know, Megan, if you've studied much about the UN Agenda 2030, but everything that we're doing is falling right in line with the fact that it looks like we have maybe six and a half years to maintain the humanity that we now know. And I know it might sound tin hat, but all people have to do is really read the UN Agenda 2030, which is supposed to be about sustainability all over the globe.

Part of the sustainability is the removal of sex the replacement with the word gender so that it becomes this amorphous thing and it's about population control and all kinds of stuff but kelly j i mean that's one of kelly j's issue is is you know and i'll get to that with her the next time she comes on she she's like i i don, I don't accept gender. Gender is not it's a made up thing. Sex is what we should be talking about. Biological sex is what's real. And gender is a made up thing that's now being used to control the way we speak and so on. You agree with that, Joey? Absolutely. I mean, it was a way in growing up again in the 50s and 60s. Gender is a social construct. It's something that the minute, you know, Jazz Jennings as a child, as a little boy who happened to do something or have some behavior that his mother decided

was more girly, you know, what is that? That's gender. That's what we do when we have boys that are sensitive and they care about others the way that girls are conditioned to do and if you have a girl that wants to play baseball she might be a little rough house all of a sudden that's where gender came in and that's all related to john money yes the weirdo at johns hopkins who tried to split up those twin boys and raise one as a girl um but wait this is so interesting to me because when i was at nbc i did all these shows on gender dysphoria, kids and so on. Shows for which I feel I need to atone. I really do.

I just feel like I blindly jumped into be supportive and be kind and be compassionate. And even with kids, without stopping to realize what it was, I was platforming and even advocating. I've really had my eyes open since then. But in any event, I used to be told on those shows by activists on the other side of this issue, gender is a social construct. It's nothing but a social construct. And I remember thinking, that's ridiculous. That's not true. Gender is real. You know, if you're a woman, you're a woman. If you're a man, you're a man. But I think I was conflating things, right? Like, you're on the opposite side of this, and you're saying the same thing, but for very different reasons. So can you just explain that, Joey, to people Jazz Jennings as an example of a poster boy for children becoming medicalized,

first socially, this idea that as a girl, for me, I was a really rough and tumble girl. I used to look at bugs under microscopes and things like that. Everybody decided I was a tomboy, And so I got called a tomboy. So there's that whole thing of starting to move me socially towards this idea that I had to have boy in there somehow, because I was doing things that were, what I would say now is just natural exploration. And for a boy to grab a doll or to start having fantasy play where they're in a play or they're doing these things that we see somebody, I don't even want to say his name now, stealing every company that they can to advertise being a girl or being a boy, these are things that since I grew up in the 50s and once I became a feminist and started looking at that, that was a much broader way for me to see how kids could be raised, which is let them have their natural exploration. Let children gravitate towards things like playing with the playing with trains or playing with uh with dolls or or anything like that but what we have now is all being dictated to children through

a device whether it's something they have in their hands or they are looking at like a computer like like i'm looking at right now the kinds of stuff that is coming across the screen and that children are getting access to is unbelievable. I mean, the idea of pornography and children getting exposed to pornography, and they don't even know what it is through YouTube, YouTube kids, and then they get through YouTube kids, they get interested in the influencers who are on their own YouTube channels. Or even Mr. Beast. We were just talking about that with Kelly J.

Mr. Beast has got this guy who's transitioning. He's got 144 million subscribers. I heard Mr. Beast say at an event I attended not long ago, he wants to have a billion, which sounded like a great ideal. You know, go for it. You've been so successful. You spread joy. You do these fun successful. You spread joy. You know, you do these fun videos. No. So quietly, he's one of the main stars of the show is going from a biological man to dressing like a woman, hormone replacement therapy,

showing off his long manicured nails, left his wife saying his son has absolutely no problem with his two-year-old. I'm sure the two-year-old has absolutely no, sure. Okay. This is happening with a main character on one of the most popular YouTube shows. No, literally the most popular YouTube show that is out there. Can I just say, I've said this before, but I just want people to understand even yours truly. When I was a little girl, grew up in the seventies, a total tomboy. I was the only girl on the all boys baseball team. This is my favorite picture of myself even now boys baseball team. This is my favorite picture of myself even now in my age. That's my favorite picture of myself right there in the seventies, little girl, tomboy on a tire swing, jeans, dirty blue sweatshirt, boy haircut. I look like a boy,

Joey that they would have been transitioning me to they, you know, they Stephanie's brethren in the therapeutic field would have said, yeah, sure. All they stephanie's brethren in the therapeutic field would have said yeah sure all the signs are there and as anybody can see you know now i turned out to be a rather feminine woman but certainly in some ways i've always considered myself a little bit more male like i think i have more than my fair share of testosterone it's probably why you know i've done okay in my field and had some you know weird public moments that people are aware of but that's fine i'm still in the tent i'm still in the tent and had some, you know, weird public moments that people are aware of. But that's fine. I'm still in the tent.

I'm still in the tent. And the problem is, Stephanie, they're not allowing for that now. And I don't even know if they're allowed to. So if you're a therapist now and you say, let's explore whether you've had a sexual trauma or your parents are getting a divorce or you have an eating disorder or you're autistic, are you in trouble? Could you be violating a standard of care? Well, I don't think you're actually violating any standard of care. I think that's a highly defensible move. However, most therapists have been intimidated out of doing that because of the bans on so-called conversion therapy.

Now, conversion therapy used to mean these horrifically abusive practices. If you look at the Wikipedia page for conversion therapy, you will see a history of physically torturing people to try to decondition homosexuality. But now it's been redefined to this acronym sexual orientation and gender identity change efforts. So they've lumped sexual orientation and gender identity change efforts. So they've lumped sexual orientation and gender identity together. And they've used this very vague term change efforts to say that any therapist who is suspected of trying to change the gender identity of their patient is guilty of conversion therapy. So that puts a therapist in an ethical bind from the

moment the client sets foot in our office or a virtual office if you're like me and you work online. Because we have to decide what do I call my patient? What name and pronouns do I use for my patient? So if I, and I don't work with this population anymore because I have a public presence, so I work with detransitioners and concerned parents instead. But if I were just an ordinary therapist without a public presence, and I had a client coming to me saying that they wanted to be called the name and pronouns of the opposite sex, I would have a dilemma right from the beginning. Do I agree and collude with the client's current sense of self, or do I challenge that? This is a challenge we face right from the start. And the fear of every therapist is that if they show any skepticism toward the client's

so-called identity, that the client could perceive them as trying to change their identity. Even if the therapist is trying to help them get to the root cause of their gender dysphoria, the client could take offense to that and file a complaint. And so the system is really stacked against therapists. Most therapists have worked very hard to get our licenses and our careers are really important to us. And so is doing right by people and frankly being a little too agreeable some of the time. So that's why many therapists live in fear or go along with what's being asked or simply avoid working with this population altogether, which is tragic because these young people really do need our help.

Yeah. You're worried you're going to lose your license and your livelihood if you do your job the way you're supposed to do it. I can understand why a therapist wouldn't take the risk, but you're right. Then they should just get out of the business of helping these kids because they can't. What they've been told effectively is you can't, you can't help them. And as a parent, if my child ever expressed any of this, uh, dysphoria, et cetera, I would never take them to a therapist. I would take, I would do my homework and get them to somebody like you, but God, you have to work so hard. Most parents are working hard. They've got jobs. They've got their lives. They're not, they're not listening to these discussions. They don't know this stuff. They haven't read Irreversible Damage.

So that's the problem. All right, we're going to talk a little bit more about what happened to Kat when she got drawn into this whirlwind. And then I really do want to follow up on the autism thing, Stephanie, because I know it's like you have an autistic kid, you put them in this system, and before you know it, they're exiting, being told they're trans, when that may not be it at all. And it's happening more and more. and i feel like to that population in particular it's just so unfair i mean to all the populations who aren't it is unfair stand by more with the stars of the documentary affirmation generation again you can get it at affirmation generation movie.com we'll be right back clinicians you know we've been sold a bill of lies and i honestly feel for all my colleagues We'll be right back. really hard to reckon with what they've done. Same with the teachers, doctors, and parents. We're rushing to make a permanent medical transformation. I can't think of anything that I've seen in my time as a therapist that is more terrifying and destructive.

I don't know what the long-term impact will be. Jensen and Stephanie Wynn, who is a therapist, who's soundbite you heard in part there. So let's first spend some time with Kat, because I want to hear Kat sort of how quickly you got therapized with hormones and so on. What age was it when you first had that first meeting where you were basically affirmed? Yeah. So it was age 17 when my gender dysphoria had increased in severity. And this was correlated with being sexually violated. And my parents took me to a gender therapist. He is the head honcho of gender care in Sacramento, which is the area I lived at the time. And he basically, like, so, so to back up a little bit, I'd had a history of severe eating disorders. So I had already previously been to an inpatient treatment center for that. And I was used to being really like, pressed on and questioned by therapists and having like everything that came out of my mouth be like questioned. And that was the exact opposite of what he did. And so like, you know, when I just said, Well, you know, I really hate being a girl, I feel

like I should be a boy, I want to be a boy. And he just said, Okay, man. And he started calling me like he him and it was like, like immediate affirmation. And, you know, there was a part of me that that was happy about that. But then there was like a part of me that was happy about that. But then there was a part of me that was also like, well, this is kind of odd. And by appointment three, he told my parents, he asked both my parents to come into his office. And he told them, I think that he should start testosterone. That would be my professional recommendation. And my parents were shocked.

They thought he was going to be working with me on psychological issues issues. And, um, so they didn't take me back to see him again. And, um, yeah, go ahead. Uh-huh. Oh, well, I was just going to say part of me was honestly like a little bit relieved just because it felt like too fast even to me. And I had some other things I was dealing with, like, you know, I always wondered what would happen to my singing voice. And that was also this huge passion of mine. And like, you know, actually like a fundamental goal was to be a singer. So anyway, I'm, it was crazy though, like how fast the process went. How long after that did you begin testosterone? So it was a long process for me. Like it was 2008 when I saw that therapist at age 17. So I was still ahead of like the current wave of people who are like transitioning

and detransitioning. But after my bad experience, so when I was 23, so four years later, and at this point was when I was living on my own independently, I did pursue going on testosterone. Again, I was prescribed a mega dose of injectable testosterone, intramuscular. And I was not given any instructions on like how to do it. I mean, I was like, sent home with a packet on how to do it, but no one injected it for me or showed me how to do it. And so I injected this mega dose of testosterone. It was really scary and traumatic. I was worried I would hit a vein and that I could die or something, which actually is possible if you're injecting intramuscularly. And that was when I was 23. And then like after injecting,

I had all of these aggression, like I had emotional instability. I got hot flashes. I just like, it just really scared me. And I was like, you know what, I still think that I'm trans, but I'm just not going to medicalize like this seems seems like a nightmare. Um, but then I went back to my university in California and the ideology there was like, um, another thing I'd been worried about is that I wouldn't pass as a man. Um, cause I'm only five foot two and I'm like very petite and like very feminine looking. And my family had told me like, you can't pass, you're not going to pass as a man. Um, but then when I got to my university at, um, in California, like people were like, Oh, trans is beautiful. You know, like,

don't worry about it. If you can't pass, like you're going to find your authentic self. Like, and then I started thinking, well, maybe I could be happy if I transitioned. And then finally I had a really traumatic breakup of like a long relationship. And that kind of, um, I think triggered me to And that kind of, I think, triggered me to be like, okay, I'm going to do this. I'm going to multiply or I'm going to start taking testosterone. And so I came out as trans in 2019 publicly. And then in 2020 was when I finally started, I went full steam ahead with my medical transition and started injecting testosterone. You mentioned the voice. The documentary spends some time on that. Your voice did change. We've cut a couple of clips from the piece

so we can talk about it. Here is your voice before the testosterone in clip 11. my god it's amazing uh incredibly beautiful everything about that is beautiful uh and then this is 2.5 months into testosterone. I have often dreamed of a far off place where a great warm welcome would be waiting for me, where the crowds will cheer when they see my face and a voice keeps saying this is where I'm meant to be Kat can I tell you that makes me so sad that makes me so sad you still you look beautiful you look like a man uh and your voice sounds so much lower but it makes me sad to see that because I feel like that was done to you and not by you. Yeah. You know, I really, I do wish that

because I actually asked the doctor, you know, at Planned Parenthood, like I said, you know, I am a semi-professional singer. It's also just very therapeutic for me and a big part of my life. And you know, what can I do with the testosterone? Like, can I start at a lower dose? Like, you know, what can I do to preserve my voice? And basically what I was told is that my voice would get deeper, but I wasn't told about all the issues that I'd have with my voice. And like, I've been dealing with persistent pain since starting testosterone, basically. And, you know, I've been getting some tests done to actually see what that is. But yeah, I definitely don't feel like I was prepared for the changes that happen. And people always

like, you know, I've been really jumped on by trans activists and been told I was stupid for like not expecting the voice changes. But like, no one told me I would be in pain or the extent of like how difficult it would be to sing. And, you know, thankfully I've been retraining my voice for two years and I actually really love my voice again now. Like I have been able to. We have a clip of that too. Yeah. We have a clip of that too. Here's your current voice. Let's take a listen. Before the day I met you, life was so unkind. But you're the key to my peace of mind. You make me feel, you make me feel, you make me feel like a natural woman. Good choice. Good choice of songs. Do you expect it to return to the way it once was but um i've actually regained quite a bit of the upper range as well um like later in that song i actually jump up an octave to like the closer to the original key um but it's the tonal quality is like very different and it feels very different and then

also when i go when i'm trying to sing for a long period of time my voice gets more fatigued and it's it's harder to bring it up higher because basically what happens when you take testosterone is you end up with thicker vocal folds. They're like thicker and heavier, but your diaphragm and your lung size, your lung capacity and all of that stays the same. So it's actually harder to create enough air pressure to bring that voice higher. And there's some other anatomical issues that can happen as well. And, you know, I really am fortunate that I stopped testosterone after only a few months, because I think if I would have kept going, I probably would have lost

that upper register, like for good. And it was gone for quite a while to begin with. And I didn't know if it would come back. And I'm very thankful that it has. Oh, thank God. It would have gone a different way had you been listening to those around you. Can we spend a second, Stephanie, in our final moments on autism and frankly, eating disorders? You know, I'm not a therapist, but I, you know, we mentioned Dylan Mulvaney. I think Dylan Mulvaney's clearly got an eating disorder. I mean, there's the person has absolutely no weight on them.

And I feel like I'm not surprised to hear Kat saying she was struggling with one, too. It's like everything gets channeled into gender now, even something as serious as autism, which should not be confused with gender. But what's the connection there and what's happening there? Well, it really makes sense if you think about the experience of the typical autistic child. And let's take an autistic girl, for example. Autistic girls have an especially difficult time when adolescence hits because female social behavior, let's admit it, is confusing. It's complicated and subtle and self-contradictory, especially if you think about middle school and high school girls. And so if you're an autistic girl, especially undiagnosed,

you're not able to track what's happening socially. You're not picking up on those cues. And then you become bullied and excluded. You don't understand all the social messages going by, but you know you don't fit in. You know you can't keep up with these female ways of relating. You probably also have sensory issues. So things like dressing in a stereotypically feminine fashion or spending lots of time on uncomfortable beauty procedures just doesn't make any sense or feel good. And so then you're coping with a lot of anxiety and shame because things aren't going well for you, but you don't understand why. Then this ideology steps in and it says, here's why you don't feel like a girl. It's because you're not one.

You were born in the wrong body. You were really meant to be a boy. And that is just so seductive because it offers relief from all of that stress and shame that they've been carrying. And it offers a concrete path forward with steps that they can understand, going to the therapist, getting a letter, getting puberty blockers, binders, injections, and so on. It's a path that they understand. And that's very appealing to these autistic girls. Oh my God. I was always thinking it was the parents who were like, oh yes, let's do gender dysphoria. That's a better diagnosis than autism. You raise a much more complicated and pernicious problem, which is they're tapping into the insecurities

of the person who may be on the spectrum in an appealing way. This is sick. You can learn much, much more thanks to these amazing women at affirmationgenerationmovie.com, an important film, a brave film, as are its makers and participants.

Thank you all so much for sharing and speaking out all the best to you. Wow. Thanks, Megan. And thanks for having us. Yes. Anytime. And thank you to our audience for sharing the journey with us this week. It's been a big one, right? We've been talking about this issue a lot because it's important and I appreciate you doing it with me. Have a great weekend. We will be back on Monday. In the meantime, check out the American News Minute. Go to megankelly.com and you can celebrate Strudwick's birthday and see what mischief he caused on it. It's sort of an evolution. You'll see. Naughty as ever. Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show show no bs no agenda and no fear