The Megyn Kelly Show - Trump Brings Peace Between Israel and Hamas, and Potential Cancer Cure, with Buck Sexton and Dr. Patrick Soon-Shiong | Ep.1168

Episode Date: October 9, 2025

Megyn Kelly is joined by Buck Sexton, co-host of "The Clay and Buck Show," to talk about Trump's massive Middle East deal between Israel and Hamas, Trump's legacy and skills as a dealmaker, how even the left and media are being forced to give him credit now, what happens next in the Middle East, the truth about Hamas and the false equivalency some make with Israel, and more. Then Dr. Patrick Soon-Shiong, CEO of Los Angeles Times Media Group, joins to talk about why he stopped his paper from publishing their Kamala Harris endorsement, his reaction to the fallout, his decision to take the LA Times public and give power to the audience, Bari Weiss taking over as head of CBS News, the future of the media, his work in trying to find a cure for cancer, his challenge trying to get the FDA to approve this new procedure, the effectiveness of his method, why he thinks President Trump could be the person to implement this massive scientific breakthrough, and more. Soon-Shiong- https://x.com/drpatsoonshiongSexton- https://www.youtube.com/@BuckSexton Unplugged: Switching is simple, Visit https://Unplugged.comand order your UP phone today!Masa Chips: Get 25% off your first order | Use code MK at https://MASAChips.com/MKVandy Crisps: Get 25% off your first order | Use code MK at https://vandycrisps.com/MKGeviti: Go to https://gogeviti.com/megynand get 20% off with code MEGYN.  Follow The Megyn Kelly Show on all social platforms:YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/MegynKellyTwitter: http://Twitter.com/MegynKellyShowInstagram: http://Instagram.com/MegynKellyShowFacebook: http://Facebook.com/MegynKellyShow Find out more information at:https://www.devilmaycaremedia.com/megynkellyshow Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Welcome to the Megan Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at noon east. Hey, everyone, I'm Megan Kelly. Welcome to the Megan Kelly show. Before we get started today, I want to tell you some big news on this show today. We are announcing that we're continuing our partnership with the wonderful Sirius XM and expanding it. Beginning November 4th, the Megan Kelly show. We'll continue airing live at noon east on Channel 111. But that channel is now going to be called the Megan Kelly Channel. That's exciting. We're going to be announcing programming for the channel in the coming weeks. But we are excited to bring you even more content focused on our no BS, no agenda, no fear motto. Triumph Channel will continue to.

They're moving to channel 123. And so everybody's happy. And we're going to have expanded programming over here totally in line with. the vision of the MK show, with a bunch of people who you know and love. And I think you guys are going to love the all-day programming that we are putting together right now for you. It's going to launch soon, November 3rd. So stay tuned for more on that. President Donald Trump, the driving force behind a peace deal between Israel and Hamas, potentially ending the two-year war in the Middle East. It is a major diplomatic accomplishment, one that even reporters and

pundits on legacy media have been forced to admit President Trump deserves full credit for. Watch. Made no mistake. It looks like President Trump has actually pulled off something here that many presidents before him have failed to do. It's a momentous day. There's not much good news in the world. This is great news. I am trying to hold it together, honestly. I've worked on this issue a very long time. I just need to underscore what an enormous moment this is for so many people in this region. For the people of Gaza who have endured two years of war, for the families of these 48 remaining hostages who have endured two years of absolute agony, this is a watershed moment.

Certainly, this is an enormous moment for the world, but also for this administration, a big win for the president who has been very personally involved in this. This war was blocked for two years. President Biden, who proceeded him, was unable to find a way to stop it. President Trump found that way by being tough on both sides, and you'll take a victory lap for sure over the next few days. But it's deserved. There's no way that I can see that this would have been done without Trump's pressure in the final hours. Even if someone with whom you disagree about 99 things, does the 100 really well, you should say so. though, all credit to President Trump and his, as you say, unconventional team. Well, thanks, John Meacham for just barely, barely giving him credit.

I know that hurt. Early this morning, President Trump calling some of the families of the Israeli hostages still being held in the tunnels of Gaza right now. Telling them their loved ones would be, quote, back on Monday. That's what the president's saying. Watch. President Trump, you have the best president. of the world. What do you guys have to say to President Trump? Thank you very much everybody.

You did it! You did it! Thank you. Thank you. This is amazing. Mr. President, we believe in you. We know you've done so much for us over the past, since you became a president, and even before that, and we trust you fulfill the mission until every hostage, every 48 of the hostages are home. Thank you so much. Blessed be the peacemakers. God bless you, Mr. President. God bless America. Thank you very much.

You just take care of yourselves. The hostages will come back. They're coming, all coming back on Monday. All? Woo. That's amazing. That's amazing. I mean, like, imagine what those.

Poor families have been through for two years worrying about their loved ones. And now finally finding out that President Trump got this done. It's just what an incredible accomplishment. I mean, that's the kind of thing when President Trump dies, hopefully many, many years from now. It'll be one of the first things they mentioned about him. The dealmaker who just refused to settle for less, who said, I know it's impossible, but I'm going to do it anyway. It's the same guy who got up after getting shot. It's the same guy who didn't get discouraged when they indicted him four times and sued him.

within an nth degree of losing his business. It's that same guy, that guy that we voted for because we saw that superhero strength is the guy who got this done, who just said, no, we will get it done. No, we will not settle for not getting the hostages. No, I will not accept BB's pessimism about this deal or Hamas's steadfast refusal to even try. No, I won't. We're getting it done. That guy.

who now the hostages families are standing there thinking. It's incredible. It's incredible. You know how we've talked about maybe God spared Trump that day in Butler for a reason? And maybe he needed Charlie home early for a reason. But like, you can't look at this and think this might not have factored in. Let's be honest, no one thinks Kamala Harris could have gotten this done. I mean, truly, even her fans, no, she couldn't have gotten this done. it required the strength that Donald Trump uniquely has.

One of the hostages still believed to be alive right now is Matan Zhang Gauker. He's now 26. Just 26. That's young. He was taken hostage on October 7, 2003. Former hostages who were once held with Matan but later released told his family that he had begun suffering tremors due to a degenerative muscle disease that runs in the family. after learning that his mother said quote i haven't been able to eat and i can barely breathe how can a mother survive knowing her son who suffers from a degenerative muscle disease is being held alone in captivity last night after learning the news of the deal his mother told local media quote i can't breathe i can't explain what i'm feeling what do i say to him what do i do hug and kiss him just tell him that i love him and see his eyes sink into mine It's like amazing. It's an incredible, incredible accomplishment. God bless. President Trump and the peacemakers, because by the way, it's not just Trump, of course. I mean, his ability to get the international community behind this deal. And you've got to take a moment and shout out to Steve Whitkoff and Jared Kushner, the ones he sent over there to actually negotiate the deal. And that Steve Whitkoff has been at this for so long. He's taken so many slings and arrows. from people who are like, he's a real estate guy. What does he know?

He can't do it. Well, guess what? He did it. And Jared Kushner, who is so maligned by so many, for, I mean, since Trump 1.0, to the point where he just said, you know, I don't want to do politics in Trump 2.0, 2.2. He and Ivanka have shrunk from the public scene. They want more of a private life. But for this, Jared Kushner reemerged.

He cares deeply about the Middle East. he's the architect of the Abraham Accords, and he and Steve Wickoff negotiated this deal, and what an accomplishment, what a feat. Joining me now for reaction is Buck Sexton. He's co-host of the Clay, Travis, and Buck Sexton show. Let's face it, big tech has gotten too powerful. Through the smartphones that we use every day, they track our every move, decide what we see, and can even censor what we say. All that data collected about us sold to the highest bidder. Even more concerning, these platforms now hold more control over free speech than the government itself. America was built on free speech, on privacy, and the right to speak your mind without fear

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Visit unplugged.com slash mK and order your up phone today. What a day and what an accomplishment, Buck, your thoughts? Well, President Trump obviously deserves all the credit that is being bestowed upon it, not just by you and me and many of your listeners and Trump voters all across the country, but even by people who are deeply opposed to Trump on most things, who have to recognize, unless they want to seem completely insane, that this is a major, major breakthrough. This is going to end bloodshed. This is going to bring hostages home. and this is, I would argue, Megan, the beginning of what we could see as the transformation of the Middle East away from the constant warfare, bloodshed, and disruption that unfortunately has defined it really for mine, my lifetime and yours, into something more stable. We're not there yet, but if you were to look around and see where the enemies of Israel and really the enemies of civilization stand, including Muslim, of the Middle East who want peace and want their own security, the bad guys, so to speak, are in a worse position now than they have been at any time, really post-9-11.

I mean, I'd have to go back many decades to find anything even equivalent. I think you couldn't. I think that this is now an opening for broader peace in the region with Israel, but also that takes into account all the various rivalries and factions and terrorist entities there. And I just feel so happy for the family. who will either get their loved one home or at least get the closure of having their remains brought home to them. And it's just, it's a monumental win. There's no way around that. And that's a fantastic thing. And it's really nice to come on, especially given the events of recent weeks

and have great news to talk about it and to dive into with you. Yes, it is great. at last and basically on the two-year mark since 10-7 was launched, President Trump got this done. He was talking to Hannity last night by phone, and he said himself, Trump did, that he really thinks the key was getting these Middle Eastern countries on board with this plan, you know, Qatar, Turkey, Egypt to apply pressure on the Hamas side and to be standing sort of behind President Trump saying, we want this to, and we stand ready to. force both sides of this deal, that nobody else had done that. And President Trump really did have to strong arm all parties to this table buck. I mean, that's what he's great at. I was mentioning

the mocking of Steve Whitkoff for being a real estate guy. Like, what does he know about the Middle East? Real estate, two real estate guys, three of them got this done. Trump, Kushner, Whitkoff. I don't think actually that's any accident, given what real estate guys actually do for a living. Yeah, understanding how to negotiate and how to both seem like a fair arbiter of the conflict, but also understand how to put pressure when necessary to bring them to reasonable compromise. That's a skill set, Megan, as you know, and it's a skill set that your title doesn't give you, right? It doesn't matter if you are this special envoy for, and I know this. I worked for Ambassador Dennis Ross a long time ago, who was Clinton's special envoy for the U.S.

Middle East peace process. I worked at the Council on Foreign Relations, Middle East Peace Project. I mean, I've seen people with the most outstanding credentials imaginable for Middle Eastern expertise, you know, decades in the region, and they couldn't do and have not been able to do what President Trump and his team, and I think you rightfully point out, there is a team effort here. I mean, Trump is the captain of the team, but there are others who had very important roles in this process. Generally, the way, anything that's Arab-Israeli, so you can kind of put all the non-Israeli countries into this bucket, the way it works is a lot of people are seen as they're either on one side

or the other side. And therefore, there could never be enough trust to foster a deal of framework like this. Trump is able to span that divide. And that's what I think is incredibly unique about him. As you put it out, he has the strength, the common sense, and also that force of personality so he can sit down with the Saudis, the Qataris, he can sit down with the Israelis or sent his envoys, you know, his people on his behalf. And everybody knows they're getting a straight deal and a straight shot with what he's saying. He means what he says. And that's what's brought us to this place where now we have not just the end of the conflict beginning, but also the possibility, as I said, of a more peaceful and better Middle East than we have seen in maybe, maybe ever.

And I know that's a Trumpian, you know, the best Middle East ever. But it's possible now, I think. And I would make that case to anybody who is wondering why. The Israelis have done a phenomenal job of taking the fight to enemies that deserved it. But now the framework is in place to move forward to something much better. Definitely want to talk about what's happening next in the Middle East in a second. But it does occur to me, Buck, that we watch President Trump and what can seem to many like an erratic style of governing. You know, like we're sending troops into Portland, you know.

Now we're sending troops into Chicago. And, you know, we're slapping tariffs, 100% tariffs on this country or that country. But, like, the truth is President Trump does have legitimate policy objectives in each of these decisions that is perceived by some as erratic or, you know, out of control or whatever they want to call it. All of that is actually an important piece of convincing people like the Palestinians and, for that matter, you know, their Arab allies, that President Trump is. totally unpredictable, and you don't want him mad at you. You do not want him turning his eye against you, deciding that you're a bad guy with whom he cannot negotiate, because it's one of those things like that MFER really might just do what he's threatening, and we can't afford that. You know, he was talking to Hannity last night about getting some of these other conflicts

settled. You know, the count is up to seven or eight now in terms of conflicts or wars that President Trump has helped bring to a close. And he was saying he's used the tariffs in many of these instances to say, you don't wrap this up, we're not going to do trade with you. You're not going to be able to sell your goods in the United States of America. And he was saying, oh, you want to see that, turn people around like that. It does because they know he'll follow through. Something he's getting sued over right now up at the U.S. Supreme Court. It's all kind of part of the same package. Well, this is, this is fascinating, Megan, because I think when Trump took office, one area where his detractors were the most smug and the most undermining was on what they thought would

Trump foreign policy. He doesn't know enough. He hasn't, he hasn't spent years at the State Department or, you know, he's not, it was obviously nonsense then. And now you can look back at the record. Trump is the most successful president in the Mideast. You could argue also globally on a whole range of issues, but on the Mideast that we have seen. The only person who maybe comes close, if you want to say, it would be George H.W. Bush with the massive coalition to Al-Saddam. But that actually didn't end up the way that we wanted it here. There was a war after that to finish the job, right? So Trump has been phenomenal Middle East. And to your point, by the way, about the personal dynamics, I don't know if you're a fan of the movie Tombstone. I'm a big fan of it. I think it's

a really fun of it. Kurt Russell, I'm always a fan of. You got to tell Doug, you guys, next time you have a movie night, go throw Tombstone on again. It's a really great rewatchable. But there's a scene that I think really sets, has always for me set Trump's foreign policy or explain Trump's foreign policy, where, you know, Wyatt Earp, who's cleaning up the town of the bad guys, he throws the shotgun to Doc Holliday, who's kind of his unpredictable right-hand man. Val Kilmer. Val Kilmer, who does an incredible job in the role. And he says, I think there'll be a little less itchy on the trigger finger if they know

the doc's on the street howitzer. And that's kind of how Trump is, you know, that's kind of how Trump is with foreign policy. Like, he's a little, he's the guy who he's not just going to have a demarsh. he's not just going to write strongly words letters via diplomats and, you know, go to UN's functions and give pointless speeches. If you stay on the side of the good guys, good things happen. If you want to play games, he's going to come down hard on you. And I think that everyone, in the mid-east, the oldest truism is people see a strong horse and the weak horse and they always go with the strong horse. Trump's the strong horse. And if you're looking for somebody to bring two sides

that are locked in, not just this war, but really just an ongoing war for. for almost a century now, Trump is the guy to bring it to this place, this conclusion. And I think that he, like I said, deserves tremendous credit for staying the course and making sure that we got to this point. And it's going to be amazing as some of these good things come about, obviously the hostage release and some of the other markers that set the early stage of the deal. Oh, my God. When those hostages start coming home, I mean, he set out last night, he told Hannity on Monday,

Trump seemed to be saying that even the deceased hostages' bodies would be returned on Monday. The Israeli officials said that may take a little longer, they believe. But either way, I mean, just when those hostages start coming home and we see video of that and we see the Israelis wait to welcome them, it's going to be incredible. The videos now coming of the Israelis celebrating, here's some, I believe this is from Tel Aviv. You can just see the joy and all these young people. I mean, young people hit so hard by 10-7, going to a music festival, trying to celebrate life and love and music and dance, cut down in the middle of those celebrations, their friends, ripped out of their arms, tortured, raped, murdered, brutally. And some held in captivity for two years now that you can see the joy in their faces.

And over in Gaza, too, which unquestionably has suffered. The Palestinians have also suffered mightily. We don't know the exact death toll. The Palestinians say it's nearly. 70,000. Here's the Gaza Strip. Those numbers not credible, but at least tens of thousands have died. You can see their relief, too, at it being over. Israel's going to release some 3,000 Palestinians, including some 200 captured for having been intimately involved some in the planning of 10-7 in exchange for those 48 hostages, only 20 of whom are alive.

I mean, try explaining that to your kids, Buck. I was. I was talking to my kids about, they were like, well, why? Why does Israel only get 48 back, only 20 of whom are alive? And the Palestinians get 2,000. I'm like, you know what? There's a very different value that is placed on life by these two groups. Yes. Well, this is something that I think is a good reminder for everybody. I've been, honestly, Megan, a little frustrated as somebody who is firmly on the right and has been for really his entire life and has been supportive of the state of Israel. That doesn't mean that I don't criticize. Israel when I think it errs. It doesn't mean that I think that Israeli interests could ever be put above American interests where the interests coincide. Fantastic. And in general, I think Israelis are defenders of civilization and actually have a society that they can be proud of. Unfortunately, that's not the case in Gaza under the rule of Hamas. And these are not equivalent, morally equivalent entities at all. I think people in recent months, including a little bit on our side, on the right,

lost sight of the fact that this is not two sides who have been approaching this conflict in anything approaching the same way or anything near the same way, that the stories about mass starvation, those were lies. I mean, the New York Times put that on the front cover, and they had that, it was pure propaganda. And a lot of people fell for it, and I was a little surprised. One thing, there are leftists, as you know, and unfortunately, there's a lot of really a political tribal allegiance. A lot of Muslim Americans, for example, just inherently are on the side of Hamas and on the side of the Palestinians in Gaza, no matter what goes on, no matter what happens.

There are a lot of leftists, by the way, just general leftists, you know, white, black, any color in this country, who take the side of Hamas, I think, in part out of a misplaced sense of this being a anti-colonial conflict and some kind of a white, brown oppression narrative. So they just don't understand the dynamics in the country. But there are people on the right who I think lost sight of this a little bit as well. Look, the war grinded on for two years. War is a horrible thing, but this is the definition of a just war in its origins. And I think the Israelis generally fought it in a way that not only can they be proud of, but as an ally of theirs, we should feel like they did their best and that our support of them was rewarded by the actions that they took

and the actions that they didn't take in terms of excessive civilian casualties. So I do think there's the celebration, and that's the main feeling today, and that's really important. But the Israelis were always the good guys in this, and I think some people lost sight of that a little bit in recent months, and it was a frustration for me, including people that, by the way, I like very much on the right, and I'm not naming anybody, obviously. It's not about that. It's about where we stand now, because we're going to have to make sure one part of this

deal, Megan, is absolutely. rock solid going forward. Today, it's celebration, families getting their loved ones back. The war is stopped. I mean, that's fantastic. But in the months ahead, Hamas cannot end up in charge again. That is the absolute no-go. You cannot have a Hamas or Hamas entity, Hamas individuals who are running Gaza or any part of Gaza. Quite honestly, I think that anyone who is involved in Hamas, if they're still alive today, is very lucky to be alive and to be at this ceasefire position. because the Israelis would have had every right to hunt them down and terminate them. So there's a lot that still has to be done here, right?

There's a phase in. And I think that Trump is going to get us there and his negotiators have set up the framework as best as it could be set up. But we have to keep an eye on that as well because how many wars have there been between Israel and Hamas in the last 20 years? I mean, we don't want to see this again. We don't want civilian suffering again. That means Hamas absolutely must be expelled from any kind of leadership position. and it's just an absolute red line for Israel and one that we have to be willing to help them enforce. I'm just so relieved, Buck, because, you know, I've said all along I support Israel.

I call myself a Zionist. I think Israel obviously had the moral high ground in this entire conflict. It was brutally attacked. 10-7 was an atrocity. But I watched the polls in the United States going like this in terms of support for Israel. They lost the entire Democratic Party, they lost almost all independence, and they were starting to lose Republicans. Young Republicans mostly are gone. So the erosions were really at the younger levels. People under 30, I think it was literally 9 out of 10 or 10 out of 10 who said we don't want to send any more aid to Israel. So to me, it was just like they've got to find a way out. Israel cannot lose the United States. It just can't. That can't happen. It's actually really important to world. piece, that that relationship stays strong and that people feel good about it here in America. And it was just starting for whatever reason. Hamas is great at propaganda, the left wing,

the oppression narratives. I agree with everything you said. To me, it just didn't even really matter what was causing it. The fact is it was happening. And it just needed to stop. And I think Trump saw that too. And he said that. He raised the polls with Beebe. And he told him, like even BB's polls were going down and it needed to wrap up. This is why, though, I think, and again, I understand, And like today is the day of celebration. I completely agree with that. I think everybody, every reasonable person does, just because the bloodshed has stopped, all the things we've talked about.

But I also think that now maybe is a, or maybe in the days ahead, the weeks ahead, maybe today is just celebration day, right? That's fine. But in the weeks ahead, people should reflect a bit on why what you are talking about, which is absolutely true. And you're just stating facts. There was a loss of support for Israel. Why was that occurring?

If something equivalent to, well, something did equivalent, something equivalent rather happened to us as what happened to Israelis on 9-11. And I was one of a few million Americans who found themselves afterwards in Iraq, in Afghanistan, dealing with the decisions made after a war was brought to our doorstep. And I think that given the level of sadism that the Hamas terrorists engaged in two years ago in October, I think that they, I think the Israelis actually were operating in terms of warfare and urban combat with tremendous restraint. And I think that people who started to turn on Israel were losing sight of the moral clarity that is necessary to understand what's going

on in a conflict like this. I'll give you an example. I'm sure you remember the late great Christopher Hitchens, because we would always come up against this in the war on terror, the GWAT, as we called it, Megan, they would say, he would say that if the fighting against terrorism is the cause of terrorism, then we've lost and the terrorists win. That was basically his formulation. If every time we do something in response, speaking from the American perspective, we do something in response and some, you know, we bomb the wrong house one day or we shoot an innocent civilian and now we're the bad guys because we're actually fighting a war against jihadism, which seeks to eradicate us after terrorist attacks like 9-11, well, then we've already

seeded the battlefield before we've taken the battlefield. And I think that that's the formulation that a lot of people started to apply to the Israelis. Like the problem is that Israel is dealing with the problem. That's a massive misunderstanding of not just the realities of what was happening in the region, but also of recent decades. The only reason that Hamas had Gaza was because Israel said, all right, fine, you know what? We're pulling out and it was not politically popular in a whole bunch of different ways in Israel at the time. They had to pull Israelis out. I mean, actually physically pull them in some cases. They had to remove them. The military removed them. They left behind all this infrastructure. And Hamas turned it into terror.

We covered it. Live on Fox News. Yeah, no, I was there. I mean, I wasn't actually physically in the region. But we covered that every day. And we were shocked, shocked when Hamas won the elections that followed. No one predicted that. Nobody thought that's where the Palestinians, though we knew they weren't, you know, fans of Israel were going to go. But they elected a group that, you know, its whole mission is to destroy Israel. And they did not, they do not believe Israel has a right to exist. And the powder keg was about to explode, and it did explode on 10-7. The, I do think just to pick up on what you were saying, the bombing of Iran scared a lot of Americans thinking, we are getting too close to this.

And the same way many have felt we're getting too involved in saber-rattling over in Russia. You know, like they're happy to support our allies. it's Israel's fight, it's Ukraine's fight, and we'll be in a supportive role. But the more we get pulled in directly, the more, I think, more Americans get uncomfortable because then you start thinking about your kid and what might be coming his way. And I think that didn't help the polling either. I understand why Trump did it, and we talked all about it on this show. But my bottom line is, thank God it's over, at least for now.

It seems genuinely over. And I have reason to feel a tiny bit optimistic, which is never a word you can use. about the Middle East because of those Arab nations buck, you know? But, but let me ask you this is what I want to ask you. After any war, people are angry and like some of the hatred is even more deep. You know, we read last night, or this morning on AM update our morning short news podcast, the statement from the Palestinians about this, it was, there was no joy expressed in that. They did not sound like the Palestinians we just showed. It was like, we'll see whether Israel lives up to its obligations. You know, the hatred is so deep. And now, though Israel's done an

amazing job of defanging its enemies from Hezbollah to the Houthis to Syria, you know, we could go down the list. Iran, there's going to be lingering greater resentments toward Israel than we even started with. And I wonder how you see that playing out now. Well, that's obviously a really critical consideration going forward. And I would say this. One is that whether it's Hezbollah or Hamas or Iran and all of the terror tentacles that Iran extends throughout the Middle East and quite honestly around the world, they are in a weaker position now than they have been in, certainly in decades. A large part of that is what the Israelis were able to do. We all know about the pager operation. One of the most incredible espionage intelligence.

covert actions. It was a really covert action, not an espionage. In all time, in all history, the Israelis were able to defang their worst enemies finally, I think, in a way that is substantial and could have real benefits going forward beyond just, you know, we're stopping them from killing us right now. The same thing, when you mentioned with Trump with the strike on Iran. I can tell you, Megan, I was in Taiwan last week, last week meeting with all the leadership there, including the president, and they cited that Trump taking action on Iran is very heartening for them because it shows exactly what you and I were talking about. This is a guy who, if you think you're going to get away with nonsense, you're going to get,

you know, a Moab dropped on your on your new facility or whatever. I mean, he's going to go for it. So that sends a real message to allies all over the world. And, you know, I just think on the issue of Palestinian hatred for Israel, which unfortunately, I think a lot of people in our country don't have a full understanding of. A long time ago, I had a close friend who did a whole series of interviews with the families of suicide bombers. And this was 20 years ago, maybe.

I was after the second Intifada. Because like I said, I started in Middle East stuff, even pre-9-11, on the Arab-Israeli issue. This was before 9-11, Megan, this was what, if you're going to Middle East studies, by far the biggest area of focus, right? on college campuses, et cetera. And these families of suicide bombers who had, they lost their son overwhelmingly. Occasionally, you'll have a female suicide bomber, but they lost their sons. And they were happy when they talked about it.

And they said that he's a martyr and that they hope that he killed as many Israelis as possible. Disgusting and evil stuff. And this is unfortunately very widespread in the Hamasistan that was Gaza. when I was the third largest mass casualty terror attack of our era, number one is 9-11, number two is 10-7, number three is very little known, but I actually knew it because I was in Iraq when it happened, and it ties in, I think, to Hamas and their mentality. It was in a little village outside of northwestern Iraq or in northwestern Iraq called Katania, and about 800 people were killed in this village in one terrorist attack.

Nobody in the West really even remembers this except for some military members, I'm sure, who are listening right now. And it was Yazidis. And later on, we know the Yazidis were part of the, they were, they tried to exterminate the Yazidis, Al-Qaeda and Iraq and then ISIS. But Megan, the point about the attack was there was no military value whatsoever to blow up this village. They just rolled in dump trucks. They were completely defenseless. They had no civil militia. They had nothing. They were in the desert, just people living out there, not really a part of the conflict, but just, jihadists blew them up because they view them as non-believers, they're Yazidis, and they hate them. So they killed 800 people in the middle of a war when they were fighting the coalition. That is the same mentality. That is the same mentality that you have with Hamas. It is the same

brain virus. And people who think it's a, it's a resistance organization or whatever, they are out of their minds. And I just don't want anyone on the right or anyone who's paying attention to forget that. Totally agree. In the minutes we have left, a lot of speculation about whether President Trump is going to get the Nobel Peace Prize. May I just start by saying, who gives a shit? Like, we on the right are not generally motivated by leftist organizations patting us on the head and telling us we've done a good job. This is a big one, I understand, but still, they've always favored leftists and, you know, their fellow liberals. I don't see how they give it to anybody other than President Trump, but let me just

give you a sampling of what we've been hearing. This is, I've been waiting to play these, and now I get the chance to. Here's NPR from the other day talking about, this is before the peace deal, but there had been rumblings of it. Listen to how they discussed whether Trump would get this done. SOT six. Israel's strike targeting Hamas mediators in Qatar last month really was the pivotal moment. It angered President Trump. Qatar, of course, is his close ally. And he got Arab countries on board with his peace plan. And Hamas calculated its standing. It knows it's losing militarily in Gaza. It's losing more territory with Israeli troops advancing in Gaza City. It needs relations with Arab countries if it wants any kind of future role in Palestinian life.

Trump is now showing a real desire to end the war. We know he wants a Nobel Peace Prize. Okay. So that's why he wanted to do it. I got to give you just one more. SOT 7, CNN. And if President Trump is able to do this, this is a major, it's a major victory for him. Look, it is challenging to actually hear that piece of, you know, Trump being, potentially being the one to get the ceasefire deal. But I think where we are, what we are seeing now is that a lot of people are tired of the devastation that's happening to the Palestinian people. And so how do we figure out a way a path forward? And so I would be interested to understand President Trump's interest in this because he has said some things that are very harmful to the Palestinian people.

I don't know, you know, what his motivations are. She finds it challenging that President Trump is the one who's going to get this done. That's a former advisor to Kamala Harris named Alencia Johnson. That's the leftist buildup to yesterday, Buck. Like, obviously Trump is just doing it because he wants a prize. your thoughts on that and on whether he should get it well i'm always impressed that no matter how dumb the commentary is at cnn they find a way to find even dumber people who are willing to go on television and say absurd things so in a sense you got to say that yeah you got to tip your hat

to that um i would say on on the yeah obviously the hatred of trump just drive so much of the it's all about it's all about him it's it's ego driven but also who cares if someone ends a war? Like, if someone cured cancer because they wanted to find their name, you know, uh, etched into history forever, would we say, well, sure, he cured cancer, but, uh, the guy wanted a high five for it. I mean, the, the motivation for doing a great thing and under a universally understood great thing, ending a war is really pretty irrelevant. Uh, and also I think that they're absurd in thinking that Trump doesn't want, uh, people to not be dying on a battlefield. Uh, Trump actually does.

I know this is completely, and you know well, Megan, I know Trump. I've known Trump since I was 13 years old. He does care about people. He's a dad. He's a granddad. He's actually a really good man. And he doesn't want to see the suffering and the bloodshed continue there. As for the Nobel Peace Prize itself, I agree.

I mean, look, Obama got it for existing. Literally. Yeah, no, just being Obama. You know, that's really. And I think that the award, by the way, has never, if anyone thought it had any grobitas. I think that was the last straw. Just as a reminder, they gave it to him, I think it was eight months into office, because of those speeches he was giving, apologizing for America all over the world. That's literally why he got it some speeches he gave where he went as an American president with this tail between his legs.

That's what Obama got it for. Yeah, the apology tour. They love that in the Middle East. By the way, the Middle East under Obama and his foreign policy, which I could sit here. If you ever want to do a three-hour show and just how terrible it is, Megan, let me know. So his record on the Middle East, honestly, whether it's Syria or Libya or Iraq or, I mean, just go down the list was absolutely horrifying. And Joe Biden was his foreign policy brains. That tells you a lot.

So as for whether Trump should get the only reason I kind of want him to get it. And I think this is actually why Trump wants it at some level. Yeah, Trump's a very ego-driven guy. And I respect that. I mean, you can't be this super alpha male who's the leader of the free world, get shot and doesn't even get phased. buy it. I mean, you can't be that guy unless you've got a pretty superhuman sense of self. But I think it would be the ultimate troll of the establishment and the elites for Trump to get it. As in, they would have to just sit there and purse their lips and grit their teeth and go,

I cannot believe this son of a gun is getting the Nobel Peace Prize. And I think that's going to hurt. Trump wants it for that reason. It's just going to burn. It's going to burn all the right people. I'll show one more and then I'll let you go, stop five. This is two. today on CNN. I always said give it to him so we could stop talking about it because it is so obnoxious that he thinks he should get it. I mean, we could go through all the number of reasons why he shouldn't get it. He's going to invade Greenland.

The rights he wants to take away from press pulling on the world. There's a lot of reasons why he shouldn't get it. That was a former Biden advisor. Just give it to him so we can stop talking about it. They don't like any positive press for Donald Trump. It's so annoying how he's getting the hostages back and he's saving all these lives. Just move on to the next story, which is exactly. what they'll do. I tuned in to MSNBC last night just to see what Lawrence O'Don was talking about.

Guess what his entire show is about? James Comey. He had Andrew Weissman there. They were talking about how BS this crime is, really not so interested in peace in the Middle East. And by the way, Buck, Hillary Clinton, zero posts about the deal. Barack Obama, zero. Bill Clinton, zero. Chuck Schumer, zero. Hakeem Jeffrey's zero post. But eventually he reacted when it had a mic shoved in his face. Nancy Pelosi, zero. And then you get. Ilan Omar this morning. Can I say something that, I'm sorry, sorry. Well, I was just going to say that her final post, which she just put up is, for the sake of humanity, let's hope there will be a lasting and permanent ceasefire. While this is a hopeful step, we must demand accountability for every war crime committed during this genocide and continue to call for an end of the occupation. Real positive spin, Ilan. Go ahead, Buck. I was just going to, sorry, I just wanted to say I'm going to try to get on media matters with this one, but I absolutely believe this. There are plenty of people in the Democrat Party, an American politics, who would rather the war continue than Trump get credit for ending it. Yeah, totally agree.

I don't think there's even anything controversial about that. It's obvious. Oh, I was hoping media matters would pick it up and rum with it. There we go. They've moved on. They're trying to take down other people now. They're too busy working on smearing Charlie Kirk's legacy. Buck, it's great to see you.

Thanks so much for being here. Bye, my friend. We'll be right back. Wow. What a day. Did you know chips and fries used to be cooked in tallow up until the 1990s when big corporations switched to cheap processed seed oils. Today, seed oils make up 20% of the average American's daily calories,

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Masa. is now available nationwide at your local Sprout's supermarket. Stop by and pick up a bag before they're all gone. We absolutely have to keep talking. It's more important now than ever. To cower, to hide, to go silent is not the answer. And all I can tell you is there is no fucking way I am canceling one stop on this tour. Not one stop.

I'm going. I'm going to stand on these stages and I'm going to say all the things that we say all the time on this show. We're going to make it safe for me. We're going to make it safe for my team and my guests and you. We're going coast to coast and do something really important, which is say what's true and what's real to honor him. I really now more than ever would love to see you all face to face. God, I would love to see you face to face. I need to see you face to face. I am doing this tour, and I would love for you to join me. Megan Kelly.com for the tickets. Back in July, Dr. Patrick Sunchion was here, where we had a wide-ranging conversation about his efforts to, oh, cure cancer. That's, I mean, what are you working on today? That's what he's

working on by activating our body's natural killer cells. But we had so much more to get to with him, so we knew we had to bring him back. He's the executive chairman of the Los Angeles Times Media Group, which made headlines of its own last year by declining to make an endorsement in the presidential race. Kamala Harris blasted the paper at the time. Oh, shut her, shut her with fear and is apparently still mad because she is calling the L.A. Times out again in her new book and on her book tour. Here to discuss the state of media and cancer research and more. In person with me here in the Red Studio is Dr. Sun Chong. Doc, great to see you. Thanks for having me. Thanks for making the trek out here.

Wonderful to be here. Thank you. So I'm sure you're very upset that Kamala's mad at you. She's not happy that you did not endorse her. She just assumed she would have gotten the endorsement had you done one. I'll kick it off with her soundbite saying how unhappy she is. Here we go. It's disappointing. No doubt. It's billionaires in Donald Trump's club. That's who's in his club. That's who he hangs out with. That's who he cares about. billionaires are in your club that's who you hang out with that's who you care about and she's very disappointed in you well i'm sad that she's disappointed but you know i said in response that really one should take responsibility and that's really the issue we made the decision why i made the

decision yes we shouldn't endorse her um because i didn't believe frankly that should be competent as the president of the United States. And that was a decision we made, and I think I'm very comfortable still with that decision. Do you think we'd be announcing a Middle East peace deal today had Kamala Harris won this election? I think it would be, sadly, in the same position. So, you know, there were many, many, many decisions

made during the Biden administration, which she was part of. That didn't make sense. And I've known her when she was in California. And I knew Xavier Bacero, who was the Attorney General in California and then the HHS Secretary. So I watched during the Biden administration her actions or inaction and didn't believe that, you know, some of the editorial board was all resigned afterwards. After your decision not to endorse. By the way, the chief among them, I don't think, has found another job.

So great call. It was so dumb. Well, I mean, they had never met her. I had not met her as part of their withdrawal review. And they had apparently a pre-drafted version of the most consequential vice president in history of the United States. Wow. Really?

Yes. More than Dick Cheney? Love him or hate him. You can't argue he was not consequential. Well, you know, so I thought that just didn't fly. And this was what I think October. We took that step, but that had nothing to do. do with me and any other billionaires, but that's besides the point.

Right, right. The implication is that you're all part of a club and you do what the others want done. You and I guess Elon and potentially Mark Zuckerberg. I'm not sure exactly who she means. I have no idea. But there was no pressure on you from other billionaires not to endorse. No, because I think what happened was Jeff Bezos followed that. I can't remember what he did or didn't do it.

Because he owns the Washington Post and they also did not endorse. So here we are a billion. in S Club, which is not the truth. How bad was the blowback at the L.A. Times when you said we're not going to do it? Pretty bad. I mean, we lost a lot of viewers. And, you know, the editorial board, most of them, in fact, I don't think anybody is still there.

They were resigned. Wow. And, you know, and I said, you know, in order to lead, you need to lead. And you did truly have a courage of your convictions, and that was our conviction. Why did you buy the L.A. Times? Why were you interested in owning a paper? Well, as a young kid in South Africa, growing up in partate, the only thing, and, you know, was part of that that kept me alive and educated was a newspaper.

So, you know, I would every day go to the newspaper and actually pick up the first, I just come up with a printing press and run through the city and sell papers. Wow, you were that kid. Extra, extra. Exactly. And when, you know, look, I've lived American dream. I'm an immigrant, came here. went to medical school at age 16

and finished when I was came to this country and was a surgeon for the age of 30 and felt that I needed to do something and left to go build a brachshane and was fortunate enough to sell both companies because I want to do what I'm doing now and had so much money that the idea was to figure out a way to give back and what better way to give back

to actually maintain this history of democracy and free speech and availability for people to get educated and inspired. And we're going to the next step and I'll announce on your show today, a big announcement. Yeah, tell us. Tomorrow we're opening the Los Angeles Times Media Group, private placement prior to the IPO. So you're going public.

You're going public. Wow. So why? Why is that important to you? Because I'm changing the platform. When I bought it, you ask why I bought it is when I bought it in 2008, 2018, I had already realized that the paper in itself, in the sense of printed, we're going from the ink to digital revolution.

And I'm all about technology. So I started building a complete new software platform called graphene that could take podcasts, media streaming all the way to printing press to Slack, integrate into one platform. People thought it was crazy. Started an entire system called graphene. and then launched the building of a test kitchen, a podcast rooms, a studio, a broadcast studio, and then NAND studio, which is the most sophisticated LED volume, and gaming all the way to e-sports, and integrating that on one platform.

The idea is to engage an audience, whether you, millennials, all the way to who love to touch paper, We have the e-newspaper. So could we build a single platform that would be open to all audiences and really be in a form that educating forms in spies? And that's now the early times, the media group, four brands, one engine. Are you expecting a huge response? I hope so. The people who we talk to are excited about owning a business.

being part ownership. So we're democratizing the ownership through this system called Reg A. And you can invest as low as $500 to $5,000. And the opportunity is really to open this so that's a paper of the people. Now, you're not going to let all these people have editorial veto rights over the content of the paper, are you? No, we're not. I think it's a really important one. There's going to be news. And that news is news. It's just the facts, ma'am, just straightforward facts. And then there's going to be voices, which is you have the right to your opinion. And then there's going to be unrestricted, non-editoral edited, like a substack where people could participate in. And then there's going to be e-sports and gaming.

So the answer is it is truly a platform that's going to take over, which I believe, that current media. I think I've heard you say it, a dinosaur. It is a dinosaur. Yeah, it really is. I've said dinosaur. I've said dead. I've said it's like, I said Barry Weiss taking over CBS News is basically like, here's this beautiful ship.

It's unsinkable. You might want to take the helm. Don't ignore, don't pay any attention to that iceberg. I love Barry, but the challenge of, you know, revamping a news organization like CBS is great. Yeah. What do you make of that? Well, I think this is what's happening, right? I mean, you've gone from, you basically react.

rather than proactively thinking about how to engage the audience. You go from, whether you go from far left to far right and you bring figures that are polarizing or non-paralyzing, I don't think that's a way to do it. And you could see organizations now like CBS and ABC NBC are sort of struggling. So I think the idea is exactly what you're doing, frankly, what we're doing now. having conversations, long-form conversations, and I'm grateful to have a long-form because the issues are important. People want to hear and more important people want to be heard.

And I think that's what is needed now from both sides. And that's what I created, I don't call it opinions any longer in our paper. We call it voices. Good. I agree with you. That's why I don't think linear television news is living any longer. And what's out there now is, was just on a little life support because people can't stand those stilted conversations. I remember when I was hosting the Kelly File, the primetime show in Fox, you'd prepare, I'd prepare, you know,

two hours for one segment because it was dense and the topic was difficult to understand. The person would come on six minutes. You'd have to get up and down on a subject. It was so unsatisfying. And you'd have to be very honed in on the conversation, make sure that you can just ask the most salient questions, But there's no room for the guest to think, to let his thinking develop or marinate in your thought and you to have a real exchange where, like, you're actually pondering what the other person's thinking as opposed to just banging through your questions.

And the audience doesn't know that, you know, technical part of that. They don't know what's going through the anchor's head or she's not listening. They just have a feeling of this isn't satisfying. I'm not enjoying this as much as I enjoy it when I hear an hour-long conversation with this same game. And because most answers are nuanced, right? I mean, it's not a black or white. It's not a yes, no, and then a soundbite. And that's what I said.

I said, you know, most people want clickbait in sound bites. And as you know, as you produce, for my history, for example, in 2016, 17, and I think that time frame, Sanjay Gupta did a piece for me for 60 minutes. He came and he visited me for close to two years. I mean, it was crazy during the production. but it got reduced to 15 minutes, which is what 60 minutes did. And the good news is it cut it to its essence. And the essence then, believe it not, was my launch of the natural killer cell and fighting the tumors.

But this is much more, to me, at least, satisfying because, as I said, what I'm talking about is relatively complex but relatively simple. I call it simple and profound at the same time because it affects people's lives. you know, I'm going through a phase now, as I said to you, I'm writing a book, and I thought it would be finished by now, and I decided to cut the book off by half because I'm gone through sort of a phase of hope to a phase of despair, and hopefully come back out through that. Let's talk about that, because when last we spoke, we talked about the killer T-cell, we talked about how you took this injection, and you never got COVID. You never, I mean, I mean, that there's some way of shoring up the T cells.

What's the word, how did it, what's the special word that Tucker used? Bioshield, and I said biostrike. Yeah. So we're all working with you on the branding, I guess, inadvertently. But that there's this way of getting your own body to fight infections and cancers without first line going to chemotherapy and radiation, and you're seeing real results. So that sounded also hopeful. So to hear you say you're in a period of despair,

and I've talked to you privately, so I have some idea, but do you explain that? So, you know, it was this naive thinking that if you can produce very fundamental first principle science of how your body works, that the FDA, and literally the career, I would call them now career bureaucrats, has been there for 10 or 15 years would be following the evolution of science rather than staying

in the old world of chemo. I've discovered that's not the case. So after some meetings, which we can go into, I wrote a little forward for my book. And maybe I should just read one sentence, right? And I said, it sounds radical. But for me, it confirms sort of always sense. in medicine, that our biology is more than chemistry, that healing isn't about poison or power. It's about unlocking the potential really within us. After all, so much of modern cancer treatment has its roots in warfare, chemotherapy derived from mustard gas, radiation from nuclear weapons. So we've inherited a medical paradigm shaped not for healing, but for short-term survival,

scarred by fear, power, and control. Despite incredible advances in genomics, immunotherapy, those in power, meaning the pharmaceutical giants, government regulators, even elite medical institutions, continue to enforce a system that prioritizes money, prestige, and consensus over the lives of real people.

Corruption and regulatory capture only deepened these systemic failures and not go on. So, what I did discovered, and why I left and why I sold all my companies, was a lifelong belief that you and I have this killer cell in our body called the natural killer cell. And that's really the name of it. It's called nature's killer cell. But it was only discovered in the 70s, and I wrote my first paper in the 90s, that killer cell, we've never understood. We can now activate that killer cell and understand what receptor is on that cell that if you inject something

called IL-15 protein that your body's making that would stimulate that killer cell, you now have a chance to completely attack cancer of all types. So going to the FDA, they've approved a drug called epigen, which is for anemia. The way they approved this in the 90s was if you have anemia, regardless of your tumor type, you get epigen, and that makes sense. It's like getting a blood transfusion. You don't ask you, you lost blood, is it from a gunshot, or is it from a cancer, or a chemo? You get blood transfusion.

So then they proved another drug called neupogen, that if you have low neutropholes, which prevents you from having infection, they give you neopogen, regardless of the tumor type. Well, if you have a low NK cell and T cell, which we've discovered and we give you this aisle 15 and stimulate you in K cells and T cells

NK meaning natural killer and when you call these two together it's called lymphopenia and to measure it a $20 test that when you do your CBC to measure anemia there's a thing called ALC absolute lymphocyte count and if it's below 1,000 is like having

anemia but more importantly you don't have NK cells and T cells. Without in K cells and T cells, those are the only cells that fight cancer or fight infection. So you should inject yourself to actually get that up. Well, we got this approved for bladder cancer. It took us 10 years. We have now patients with bladder cancer alive, free of bladder cancer, 10 years out. I went to the FDA to say, okay, I wanted now approve for the other type of bladder cancer, for which you have 100 patients. They refuse. to file. If you to look at the data. Now that is mystifying. Then we have the same thing for

pancreas cancer, lung cancer, head and neck cancer. And the responses, instead of understanding that if you have a low ALC or low in case cell, natural killer cell, it's like having low hemoglobin for anemia, you give yourself a shot. They declined. They won't even look at it? They won't even look at it at that point. They call it a refuse to file. But more importantly, I'm now, I have to do every cancer type, which will take three lifetimes. Lung cancer, pancreatic cancer, triple negative.

What do you mean you have to do a test, like a trial? A randomized trial. Randomized trial. Every cancer type. That doesn't make any sense. Before you can get your drug approved, is that what you're fighting for? It's already approved. So what are you fighting for?

I'm writing for the FDA to understand that anybody will, with a low NK cell or low lymphocyte count. And these are the most important cells in your body. Yesterday, the Washington Post published The oldest living person alive on Earth, 117 years old, just passed away. The thing they discovered in her was an active NKT cell,

the active immune system, which completely validates the most important thing to keep you alive even to longevity, but to fight infection in cancer are the cells that kill cancer. It's as simple as that. Is it just a shot?

It's just a shot. It's a shot. It's a cut in a shot. I gave it to myself. I remember you saying that. No, it's a separate shell I gave to myself. It's the whole platform. Oh, explain. See, because we had the short time the last time.

This is during COVID now. So in 2019, I recognized COVID was coming. I was petrified about COVID. of it, I slam, because it's not a normal virus, this virus. It goes into every blood vessel in your body because it uses the receptor of your blood vessel. So it's not a respiratory virus. It's basically like cancer, and I wrote a paper.

It's systemic, which means that once you get this virus, you have to clear it out of your body. It's no different from human papilloma virus, HPV than a lot of people know about. It's no different from hepatitis. These are the viruses that cause cancer. So you have to get it out of your body. The only way to get it out of your body is through the T-cell and natural killer cell. I sound like a broken record.

So I developed a vaccine, you want to call it Bias Strike, by a shield, that actually stimulates your body to create T cells against the COVID virus and clears the virus. So when Operation Warp Speed came about, I spoke to Peter Marks and said, the right thing to do for our country is for every company to throw the vaccine into this trial where they were testing it on monkeys infected with COVID and see which vaccine clears the virus from your body. I don't care which one. I don't care if it's not mine.

It should be the one that clears the virus. I was the only vaccine that cleared the virus. So he did throw it in there? I threw it in there, the other stopped throwing him. Interesting. Why? Is it about the almighty dollar? It is about the almighty dollar, because by that time, Glaxo, Pfizer, Biontek, Moderna had created a vaccine for antibodies.

But I said it didn't make any sense because it's whack-a-mole. the spike protein for which they're creating an antibody would keep on changing. Which you did. And even now, the vaccine that's been going about a given is really obsolete because the virus has really changed again. You've got to clear the virus. Unless you clear this virus, you then have a chance, sad, sad chance of having the virus causing inflammation and inflammation causing cancer.

that is why I believe younger people now for the first time and when I was on the first show with Tucker I said my greatest fear of a pandemic of cancer happening on a global basis and it takes five to ten years of latency for this inflammation to occur

for viruses to cause cancer so I read it the phase one trial got it through and I injected my and measured T-cells against the vaccine. And then Pfizer and Moderna and everything got proved and sucked up all the resources of the materials and they vaccinated everybody, which is the right thing. So during the Trump administration, giving that vaccine to actually reduce mortality was the

right thing. However, you needed then to follow on with a booster to clear the virus. because that vaccine did not prevent... You don't mean the booster that they were giving. You're talking about your kind of booster, yeah. So I applied to the FDA now in Biden administration. So 20, I forget the year, but I applied then to the FDA for the phase two,

where I would be the booster to the... They refused. Not only refused, they said, They could not, to this day, explain why they did not allow me. Is there a downside to this injection, this stimulator of the natural killer cell? Like, is there a risk that they were afraid of? No. They said, we don't understand T cells.

I mean, we didn't understand COVID or MRNA, not long ago, either. We didn't understand T cell because, so then I did a podcast with the science editor, and Peter Mock's. Pussy? Gosh, I forget his name, but I'll send you the, that podcast is live on YouTube. Okay. The science, oh my God, I'm sorry, I forget his name. That's okay. He's going to get mad at me, but he's a good guy.

He said, let's do a podcast, a live podcast, and video podcast, and have Peter on and you on, and ask this question. And you should listen to. this podcast. And to this day, the Solander, don't worry, we'll give you guidance. And they've never did that. So I went to South Africa and did the phase two. But then we ran out of materials. And now it's not possible. And then I focused on what you call now the Bioshield. So the shot I gave myself then was the vaccine to provide long-lasting memory T cells. From the very first COVID, those just called MERS way back 17 years ago.

Those people got T cells to the COVID, do not get COVID. Wow. So this is the whole point. You get long-term memory, not only so that you don't have this inflammation, so that you don't transmit to another person. A true vaccine. A true vaccine. So now you understand my...

You don't have to tell me who, but did you give it to anybody else? Well, we did phase one. So yes. And how did those results come out? Well, they were all at T cells. Same thing. Even in South Africa, they didn't get COVID. Even in South Africa, the patients with HIV we gave in them generated T cells.

Okay, so they generated the T cells, but then did they do the thing that they're supposed to do? Did the people not get COVID? Well, of the phase one, we only did very few patients, to my knowledge, not only they didn't get COVID, but if they're, I've got some, now these are anecdotes. So, you know, I'm a scientist, you need to do big trials. So whatever I'm telling you now is really just anecdotes. But of the people that I knew personally, because of it said my spouse got COVID, she got the vaccine, and I was with her sleeping in the same bed, I didn't get COVID. The Pfizer or Moderna vaccine?

Correct. Okay, not your vaccine. So it's protective. So that was one level of frustration, and I said, okay, fine, it's time to move on because we didn't have the resources now at this point, nor the material, to the spire shield of actually stimulating the natural killer cell. Can I just, for us non-scientists, what does that mean? Like, what kind of resources or materials would you need?

Do you have to have government buy-in to realistically do a study like that? Because you need to grow these cells in order to make this. So you need permission. No, no, permission. You need the material. All the materials are being sucked. up. Remember, there was during this period of time that the allocation of the plastic bags, the media, the culture, the systems were being allocated to Pfizer and to Moderna.

And it's like electricity or gas, this is not left. Okay. Right. To this day, in the entire history of everything I've developed, not one penny has come to me from the government, not one. And that's unusual. We funded it, I funded it myself personally. We talked about this last time, but you were paid some nine, between nine and ten billion dollars for your drug companies that you developed on your own as a working physician and researcher. And so you are able to self-fund this, but you're saying it would be easier with the government's help and you actually can't get access to the materials you need to do what you can do without the government's help.

And that was during the Biden administration. Now you understand when Biden and Kamala and the people and the HHS secretary during that time and why was I put in clue why we were put in hold what why wouldn't why was this not allowed I can't get that answer never did get that answer we'll never get that answer so now we've had Trump for eight months and now we enter the bio shield so now we've gone from COVID now I worry about long COVID now I worry about what is this virus doing in our body now. Now we get into this idea, is it the vaccine or is it the virus? I don't know, because both of them have spike protein. It's a spike protein that I worry about because a spike

protein goes into the blood vessels and goes to every tissue. Talking about now the super surge in cancers among young people, colon cancer in particular, but many others. I've never seen in the history and I've been in cancer business, sadly, but happily, because I think it's a wonderful purpose of life. A 10-year-old, 12-year-old, 13-year-old cancers of colon. A colon cancer, so David Kern, I'll name him, he's the head of Oxford University, was almost in tears just two weeks ago.

In his hands, a 13-year-old boy died of metastatic colon cancer. That's crazy. In my hands, in my clinic, in Los Angeles, a kid from Butler, the same place, the same town where President Trump got shot, came to see me because nobody would treat this poor kid with metastatic pancreatic cancer. Oh, no.

And so we tried to get the hospitals around to please treat the child, and we would help advise and send whatever we could. They said, no, they can't treat this child because he's got an adult disease, and they don't know how to treat pancreatic cancer, cancer and they said okay fine fly out to our clinic and the poor kid with their family would fly all the way from butler to LA and we would treat him as best as we could but the time he got to us

the child was so um ridden with cancer he passed away and so that you ask him from hope to despair we do know now that if we catch the cancer early enough Even if you fail chemo, you fail radiation, brain tumors, we now have patients with brain tumors, we've failed everything, come to see us, we're getting almost a complete response. We're a patient with head and neck. The tumors shrink? Yes. Just thanks to this injection, which will fire up your natural killer cells.

Correct, an injection, together with the NK cells that we infuse into the patient. That's it. Wait, together with, so what's in the injection? Okay, so let's talk about that. because I think that's really important for your audience to understand. It's a platform. It's not a, you know, one shot you come in, you go to CVS and you go home. What's in this section is your body and my body is creating a protein called IL15, interleukin 15, is a medical term.

That IL-15 is the trigger that your natural killer cells are looking for to stimulate itself. It's like food for the natural killer cell. it only lasts for two minutes in your body when you get an infection because it wants to turn on and then stop. But giving something for two minutes, the NIH tried to develop this for 10 years. The NIH and NCI designated this Isle 15 as the most important molecule to cure cancer. And they failed to develop it because it couldn't make it last long. More could they figure out how to actually just target directly this.

NK cells. We did that. It's not a question of just having like an hour-long infusion. It's a subcutaneous injection for five minutes. You injected it. It goes into your body. It stays there for seven days. And during that seven days, it proliferates your in-K cells. So I'll just tell the public, I did it to myself. As a healthy man, you weren't dealing with anything.

In fact, we've done this with healthy volunteers already. More importantly, the NCI then designated us to treat... National Cancer Institute. Yeah, to treat patients without cancer, i.e. patients with what we call Lynch syndrome. Lynch. Yep. Which affects one in 280 Americans with the 80% higher risk of colon cancer, breast cancer, ovarian cancer, endometrial cancer.

And we're giving them this bioshield together with a T-cell educator. against those cancers, we've completed the approval of that trial. So this is... When did you begin doing this? Two years ago. And so those patients aren't showing any, they're not growing a third ear, you know, in terms of the downside. We've injected this in 8,000 patients already.

And what kind of response rate have you seen from the people who do have a cancer? Metastatic pancreatic cancer. Patients now alive still six years. Merkel cell carcinoma, patients went for nine years. Bladder cancer, which I just tell you, for which it's approved, patients are free of disease 10 years. Triple negative risk cancer, complete response, after third line, get in their cancer.

Why bladder cancer? Why would it get approved for bladder cancer and be accepted as effective? Because it was the first trial that was ready to go to the FDA. But this is back to the, they want you to do one of those for each and every single kind of cancer. And it took 10 years

to get the bladder cancer thing approved. 700,000 pages of filing with the FDA. The review process took two and a half years. It just got approved in August, April,

24. This is why I said, this president, and you and I talked about it, in his presidency, could inform the world and the FDA that there's a breakthrough

for all tumor types. It's like if you have anemia, do you get a blood transfusion? Do you ask, do you have you lost blood because you have breast cancer? Right. The point is you need blood.

You need blood. Does your body need natural killer cells and T cells regardless of the tumor type? Especially since we've done this in every tumor type. It is not possible to do randomized trial in lung cancer, which, by the way, we have now started. So I've resorted to, if you go to c-safim.org or dot com, you will see the trials that I'm now open as randomized trials.

So we're now taking patients with lung cancer, who failed everything. Say the website again? CSS, which is chance, C-S-S-I-M, which is the Institute for Malikin of Medicine. Dot com or dot org. Okay. It's our clinic.

And so we've taken patients now as a request who have failed second line, third line lung cancer, failed chemo, failed radiation, failed checkpoints. And we're sure when we give that the same checkpoint while you're progressing, our intivo or our bioseield, we've troubled the survival. Last time we spoke, I remembered you said something about it's best to come to you first. before the chemo and the radiation? Because the moment you have chemo, the moment you have radiation, guess what it does?

It wipes out your in-K cells and T-cells. Think about what we've been doing for 40 years. We've been trained, as I just said in this forward, to have a short-term gain, thinking the tumor goes down, and you call that a response in the jargon of the FDA, a response rate but then they get metastasis and then they die and the reason they get metastasis in order to get that very short-term response rate you've wiped out the exact cells that actually can give you memory and have you a long life a long duration of life you said we don't count that

so the first thing you would do if you had someone close to you who got cancer any kind of cancer and they said, Doc, please help me. The first thing you would do is start them on this program. Megan, this is why I'm in despair. We sent your team the files now. We now have over 10,000 requests in my one clinic. I can only choose. We can only have the capability of having 20 to 30 people in the clinic.

And every time we say no. These are the files that you sent us? Yes. Every time we say no, I feel such great to spare because I know what's going to happen to that patient, to which we say no. Oh, no, that's awful. But we don't need to say no because this should be made available to the country by a stroke of a pen. Okay. I don't understand what's happening because now we do have Bobby Kennedy in there, who is very open-minded to know.

new solutions to old problems. Marty McCarrie, who's the real deal, a smart doctor running FDA. So I think you feel like you're still getting stiff-armed. Why? Do we know why? I don't know why. Well, I do know why. I suspect why. So maybe as a scientist, when I say, I know I don't, but I can tell you what I suspect. So I visited the FDA to ask.

You've approved this drug for bladder cancer. You have in the package insert the mechanism of action. It's the only drug in the history of medicine, which is basically your natural protein. In which you have affirmed, it stimulates your natural killer cells and T cells and memory T cells. You've proved this for bladder cancer where you have, no, it's technical, cis, which is called carcinoma in situ, with or without papery. it's approved. We have now patients live 10 years.

We have patients we have not lost their bladder for which if you remove the bladder is a 9% 8% mortality from the surgery alone and if you have no bladder

your quality of life think about your quality of life and you get sepsis of 30%. So now we have another indication in bladder we have papery without cis which I've done another 100 patients It's the same approval.

All you want is an addition to that after all the trial refused to file. I said, explain this to me. Why do you refuse to look at this? And they couldn't give me a reason. So then out of desperation, I'll just share with you now,

because I openly have to do this. I know this is a risk to myself in the organization, but I have to do this because I have to explain or answer the question of why. So I said to these two reviewers, senior reviewers, one of a female, one of a male, they've been here for years and years. If my father had bladder cancer,

and I knew I had a molecule that is safe, it's already approved, and I could preserve the patient's bladder and my father's bladder for more than three years and ongoing without chemotherapy. why wouldn't I give my father that chance? Response? I don't care.

I almost fell off my chair. And then what did they say? Why? Why don't they care? Like there must be some follow-up rationale. Right. We told you, they went on, years and years ago, they said, that you have to do another comparative trial against chemotherapy.

I said, that doesn't make any sense. because chemotherapy kills exactly the cells. And in fact, here's real world data that shows that if you do chemotherapy, you actually don't have memory. You may have a response, but you have no duration. So ethically, how do I tell the patient, you're going to go on one arm, and guess one arm could be chemotherapy, one arm is my drug. But I have to be honest with you that one arm is going to give you low lymphocyte count.

and the other arm is going to be able to give you freedom. I wouldn't be able to even recruit that trial. Response? I don't care. The next response, this is how we've done it for years and this is how we will continue to do it. I walked out at the room completely devastated and wondered what was going on.

Three weeks later, I see in the press that Johnson & Johnson is about to get priority review by the agency for chemotherapy in the bladder. Oh, no, really? Yes. When was this? A month ago. Oh.

And they just got it approved priority review for which, and you look at the package you insert, there's a 1% mortality from the chemotherapy put into a pretzel-like device into the bladder and a 24% low lymphocyte count. But it got priority review. When we filed our drug in 2020, 3, 2022, even though that breakthrough status, they refused priority review. Now, why is his discrepancy? Is it because there's a revolving door immediately to Big Pharma? I mean, McCarrie is trying to stop that.

He told me that personally. I don't know that he stopped all of the door. I think he slowed the door down. by trying to stop the people who work at FDA from being able to go immediately off to the drug companies. At least that was on his radar the last time we spoke. I don't know how quickly that happens, however. Well, I don't know if he has control of where they go after.

Yeah, but he certainly has control of not, of listening to the science as opposed to the bureaucratic dogma that says, this is how we've done it before, and I don't care. and I don't care that it's going to take another five years before these patients could actually have access to it. Well, let me ask you a question. Let me go back further. What made you all your money?

What were those drugs that you sold that made all the dough? So I had invented, again, going after Bristol Myers and going after Sanofi of a drug called Taxol. Taxol is one most widely used for women with breast cancer, and it is dissolved in castor. oil. So women to this day are getting an injection of castor oil into the veins for which there is a mortality. More importantly, there's anaphylaxis and mortality and it sticks in their blood vessels as opposed to getting to the tumor. So I had invented the idea that we've got

to get rid of this and put it inside another protein of your body called albumin, which is the largest protein in your body, that transports fatty acids around your body to the tissue. So I thought of why did I put the pactlytaxil inside a nanoparticle of albumin and we inject a safe drug that gets to the tumor without this anaphylactic reaction? That's what I invented, it's called a brachshane. And it worked. It worked. And so cell genes wanted to buy it.

They bought it. Is it used to this day? To this day, it's in Bristol-Mais hands now. So nothing bad happened with that drug after you sold it. Like, I'm just trying to figure out why are people so skeptical of you? Was it like the drug imploded or what's the history here? It's a billion revenue. It saved hundreds of thousands of lives.

A billion revenue as you speak today. And is that the main drug? For the brachshane. That's how you made the money on the big sale. Then separately, I was developing because I knew we had a supply chain issue for heparin. The drug was 17 cents. Yeah.

That came from pigs. the intestines of pigs and I had developed an eyelid cell therapy and I knew we needed that as a molecule even though it's a 17 cents file so I went to both China and the United States to ensure that the pigs do not have viruses and in 2008 there were 87 deaths in the United States from Heparin from a Waxter Hepron contaminated made in China And we were the only safe heparin in the United States. So Frasinius came around and said, we wanted to buy that. So between those two, I said, it's time for me to sell everything

because nobody is going to pursue this idea that you have innately in your system a way to fight cancer and infection and COVID and TB and hepatitis and HBV. And God gave me this gift now, because I had no idea, I had no intention that it was about the money. It's about me as a physician, just pursuing scientists and trying to make impact. Well, that's the thing. You could easily just go off on, you know, some tropical beach right now and be enjoying your dough. So to me, this doesn't even pass any smell test as a money-making venture that you're upset. You can't get money from, you know, the injections that you're trying to get the

FDA to approve, you have no incentive. You actually have almost no financial incentive to work at all anymore. I said to them about the COVID vaccine, I'm willing to donate it. In fact, I'm donating it to India so they can manufacture and give it to the world. It's the most frustrating thing to me when they call me the billionaire. That's why I'm willing to say, I hate that term actually, because, yes, you know, the nuns taught me, no money, no mission. True. Very true. And the purpose of money is not the purpose of money.

The purpose of money is what you could do with it to make an impact to better mankind. This is the way I feel about it. And, you know, we've got thousands of employees all funded by what we've done. So, yes, I think. To me, this is reminding me of what Elon was going through. And, you know, he wanted to build rockets and the number of regulatory hurdles that were placed in front of him, the red tape that he had to try to cut through just to launch the rockets. he's trying to get us to colonize Mars.

And it was one of the, I think, incentives he had to get involved in government, to get involved in politics in order to address the problem that was stopping his core business because he saw it was so, he was so frustrated too. So maybe what you need to do

is donate hundreds of millions of dollars to the next presidential race and, you know, buy your way through this red tape doc. I'm being facetious, but this is a common problem where you have bureaucrats under any president that just know no other way. Well, this is why, you know, when Biden was vice president and Beau had brain cancer, and he called me in to help him look after Boe.

And then after that, I launched a cancer moonshot. Theoretically, I thought with his blessing, but then he launched his own cancer moonshot, which caused great confusion. and then President Trump won the election. And then in 2016-17, he called me in President Trump then to join his administration. All right, now wait, hold it right there. I've got to take a quick break. You getting that offer is where we will pick it up on the backside.

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That's SiriusXM.com slash MK Show and get three months free. Offer details apply. Back with me now, Dr. Sun Jong, who is talking to us about curing cancer, and the roadblocks that he has encountered along his efforts to try to bring his drug, his new protocol is a better way of saying it, to as many people as possible. So you had a phone call where we left, where we last left off with Trump 1.0. Yeah, Trump 1.0, he called me to Bedminster the same time he was interviewing with Romney. So my wife and I flew out to Bedminster, and he asked us, could we stay?

for dinner, we did. Then he asked me to come back to the Trump Tower, and I understand Hope Hicks is now your CEO. Yeah. So you should ask Hope about the stories. I will. And the little car that I helped you with, you can ask her about that story at that time while asking President Trump to announce. And, you know, I visited multiple times, and I was really thinking exactly what you just said. Maybe I could make a change by going into the government, but I was in the middle of building this bioshield and the platform. So he offered me, said, Patrick, what would you want to do? Can you go talk to Trump Price?

So I would love you to come in. And I said, listen, Mr. President, give me four years. Let me work on this. And then in your second term, we can talk about it. You didn't have a second term. He had, and now he's got the second term. So it's given me eight years. And now this is where we are.

So when I was with him at Riyadh with MBS and in Qatar with the emir, I shared, if you could see these videos with him, this conversation that we have now, the Bioshield. And this is not only important. You shared it with Trump? With President Trump, yeah. And his response was, please come and talk to me. This is important.

And obviously, he's been occupied with more important things of the world, which is going on right now, thank goodness. And hopefully he gets a piece. prize for what's going on in Gaza. But I think the opportunity now for us, for him as the president, to be able to make that difference and cut through this bureaucracy and this dogma for a drug that's already approved that can change the course of cancer, for which a drug that we have now in trials sponsored by the National Cancer Institute to prevent cancer with patients who don't have cancer, to my knowledge, it's the only molecule that's gone through those

large phases. So that is where I am now. I mean, if President Trump could oversee some sort of a medical protocol that prevents cancer and cures cancer, the very thing that Joe Biden did say he was doing with the cancer moonshot, it would absolutely cement his legacy. I mean, truly, even the left would have nothing left to criticize him over, right? Peace in the Middle East and curing cancer or preventing some sort of a medical protocol that doesn't sound that invasive where you could potentially prevent cancer. And the prevention of cancer has been now completed and completely enrolled. We mentioned it in Lynch syndrome and injected throughout the country,

Mayo Clinic, Cleveland Clinic, every MD-Anson, every unit has injected this into healthy people. If you have Lynch syndrome, they'll give me this. It's already been given. It's almost better to get Lynch syndrome at this point. You don't want Lynch syndrome, yes. But one out of 280 Americans have Lynch syndrome. Well, what are we going to do? What else are we going to do?

And now that we see this rash of cancers amongst the young people, as you were talking about, like young kids with colon cancer, you're mentioning age 13. I've seen that too. But lots of kids in their 20s, like young 20s coming down with colon cancer, like aggressive forms. They don't know why some people think it might be linked to the COVID virus or the COVID vaccine, but I've heard the virus itself may be like in the bodies making them more likely, like almost priming them for cancer. And so, I mean, do you feel like this protocol of yours would stop that? Would help? Let's talk about that first. You know, I was really reticent. I was invited like a year ago to

speak directly to the NIH in the Department of Defense about our findings on what COVID's doing to the body with regard to actually stimulating cancer. We have in our body a gene called P53 that actually prevents cancer from occurring. Elephants have eight P53s. That's why elephants don't get cancer. Wow. I'd not know that. So you could be an elephant and you'd be fine. Guess what COVID does? It knocks down P53. Oh, really? Yes. Oh, no. We're about to publish that. Dr. Carlos Codone and I have done the work. It knocks down P53. And if you have any latency, and so therefore, it's what I consider no different from HPV, which causes cancer with the latent period of once you have

HPV by 10 years. Now we are seeing for the first time in America head and neck cancer from HPV exceeding that of cervical cancer. So I've just treated,

I just tweeted about four or five, now six patients with hidden neck cancer in our clinic. And we're about to start now a trial or randomized trial in head and neck cancer where we're getting responses six out of six. So you wouldn't take it, like if you had HPV but you didn't yet have cancer.

I guess I shouldn't say yet because you're not guaranteed to get cancer if you have HPV. But if you had HPV but you have not gotten cancer, that would be a good time to do this. It's a good time to actually maintain your ALC, your lymphocyte counts. Like, is it good to maintain your hemoglobin if you're anemic? Is it a good time to keep your blood sugar down with insulin if you're diabetic? It is part of your human biology. So yes, we need to monitor your ALCs. And that's exactly what I'm trying to get approved,

is if you have low NK cells and T cells, whether you have cancer, with infection, or with you elderly, or whether you have COVID, had COVID. So we have a trial now going on for lung COVID, where we're giving this bioshield for patients with long COVID. It's open. So what we did now out of desperation is just, okay, fine. We're going to try and do this.

I don't know how sustainable we can do all these trials. Because I'm getting beat up by saying, why are you just doing all these trials? Because we've been forced to. So I was telling you about the lung cancer. In other words, the FDA keeps, they keep telling you no, no, no, not unless you do these trials. So for, I don't know in our lifetime, will we get?

So are we going to avoid ovarian cancer? Are we going to avoid triple negative breast cancer? I'm going to avoid pancreatic cancer because we can't do randomized trials that each trial costs two to three hundred million dollars. Oh, really? Yes. And how many people do you need?

200 to 500 to 1,000. Oh, boy. Per trial. Well, wouldn't that be easy to find? I feel like the finding the people might be easier than funding it because everybody with cancer is desperate for a way out. Not only finding it, that's why I said we got this desperation call of 10,000 people since Tucker Carlson and since us having this conversation.

And we can't play God. I don't want to play God. This should be available for the rest of the country. And one man can make that available for the rest of the country of a drug that's already approved. Right. So the answer is at least for lung cancer and soon we'll open up for head and neck cancer

and soon we open up for colon cancer these trials. But I'm getting called for young ladies with triple negative breast cancer in their 30s. I'm getting calls for glioblastoma, which we have failed. And the good news, we've got patients now, eight months, 10 months since we started that. So we know we're gonna,

it's sort of unstoppable in terms of the biology that if you get your ALC up, you have a shot. So my frustration has said, you know, I wrote this forward, called the calling beyond cancer, doctor's reflection, purpose power and the possibilities within.

And I watched Jane Goodall's last words. I don't know if you've seen that on Netflix. She recorded herself, knowing that it would only be released when she's dead and she died two days ago. About your purpose in life. And she felt that was her purpose in life to create communication with the world

and make a better place and spent a life understanding chimps. I'd really believe that the purpose of my life is to figure out how to actually execute the power within yourself to actually fight this disease. So do you have anything upcoming with the administration?

I have a meeting coming up with the FDA, not with the administration. I hope that maybe, you know, once these things have settled down, and I have a chance to sit down with the president again. He was really engaged with me at Qatar when I was with him in Qatar and with him in Rio. That was just four or five months ago. Yes.

You know, there's a lot of disarray right now in HHS, as you could see, some from the polls. I'm just hopeful that people actually understand the science. And I appreciate, you know, voicing this now. I'm going to put this book together as fast as I can so that, you know, the details can be seen. Yeah. And then do a book tour where you're everywhere. Yes. Smart.

But, I mean, you're in front of the right people. It's just a question of whether they're going to do the right thing. That's, you know, I don't know how it works exactly because I'm very disheartened by that report you just gave us about Johnson and Johnson and whether they still have some sort of control over the FDA and there are dual loyalties or. there's some incentive for our bureaucrats now still to be playing nice with big pharma and potentially squat because there's just no other reason why we are here decades into the cancer battle with what feels like so little progress other than it's a moneymaker for these big pharma companies to have cancer not cured and to just have people go on and on and on getting treated as opposed to getting out of it.

It's my own cynical take. Right. And as I said, you know, I can't make the assertion. That's the motivation because I don't know. But it just appears incongruous to me that you can priority review for chemotherapy and not priority review for a biologic that is safe. It's incongruous to me that if you look at how Merck got the checkpoint in humidity, the immunotherapy approved rapidly, rapidly, and it's generated, I know, $30 billion of revenue per year to Merck or some number in that range.

And yet we know that once you give the checkpoint, there's relapse very rapidly. So these are the kinds of things that I need to fight against, but I'm so mystified that we should, I'm not, I don't want to fight anybody. This is for all of us. Right. Like I said, you could be sitting with your tropical drink and your feet up, watching the waves roll in and go back out at this point. You're clearly determined to help people. Well, it's like a life's work, right? And I think when we go from here, and as you know, what drives me is the curiosity. So I've gone from, because part of this was I was building supercomputers in AI. I presented AI to President Obama for healthcare in 2000. and eight, believe it not, with a one-page of chart. And the next thing I've been working on is supercomputing.

And the next thing I'm working on now in parallel to this is transforming the internet from radio waves to light waves using optics. What? Can you work on making hold times shorter? What else can you fix? I'm very serious about that. What would that internet change do? So the problem that we're having right now is connectivity, you know, because we're using thing called spectrum.

And think about sound, the speed of sound versus the speed of light. And when you have the speed of light, you have huge bandwidth. Because what's going to be the problem with AI is the amount of information required you need a pipe that's huge. The only thing I'd give you the pipe that's huge to completely with speed is light. So I've been working now on optics as the mechanism of transmitting data. And we are not only are this close, we've built this optic chip. I mean, like, I can't even begin to get my arms on that. That'll be another.

That'll be another segment. Well, nice tease for our next hour together. Although I think the next hour will be when your book hits. And then we'll follow up with this. Whichever comes first, I'll take you. It's such a pleasure, Doc. Well, thank you for everything. Thank you for having me.

Yeah, don't give up. I won't. Do not give up. We need you. All right. And I won't give up either. All right. Thank you. Dr. Sunshung, he's amazing, is he not? Thanks for listening to The Megan Kelly Show.

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