The Megyn Kelly Show - Tucker Carlson on His Exit From Fox, What He's Building Now, and America's Free Speech Reckoning | Ep. 683

Episode Date: December 11, 2023

Megyn Kelly is joined by Tucker Carlson, founder of the Tucker Carlson Network, to talk about what was really behind his exit from Fox News, the way he was treated behind-the-scenes, what happened in the media after he left, the decline of corporate legacy media, continuing to work and speak the truth, the subscription network he's launching now, the free podcast, the future of the media, X as a free speech platform, whether Tucker would consider being Donald Trump's VP running mate, what he thinks of Trump personally and politically, the way politicians change their personalities, the potential for violence if Donald Trump is thrown in prison ahead of the November election, political consequences being felt now in cities, Harvard and other top colleges going through a reckoning related to free speech, how universities have become about business and money and not merit, the truth about Tucker's position on Israel, whether the GOP will really withhold funding to Ukraine, Putin's next move, American interests in Ukraine and elsewhere internationally, the true reality of the border crisis, Tucker's relationship at home with his wife, and more.More from Tucker: https://tuckercarlson.com/ Follow The Megyn Kelly Show on all social platforms: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/MegynKellyTwitter: http://Twitter.com/MegynKellyShowInstagram: http://Instagram.com/MegynKellyShowFacebook: http://Facebook.com/MegynKellyShow Find out more information at: https://www.devilmaycaremedia.com/megynkellyshow

Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at noon east. Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show. Happy Monday. Hope you had a great weekend. I'm excited to bring you today's show. Back in April, the top rated cable news host Tucker Carlson was suddenly removed from his Fox News show, sidelined at the height of his career. And we had no idea why to this day, Fox News has not said that's how much it respects its audience. We've talked about it many times on the show. We brought you the truth about what was really happening behind the scenes and what they were doing to him in the press thereafter, while so many others just went with a spin being offered by that

network's communications person. Tucker and I have known each other for a long time. We've talked many times since April, off the air and off the record. But today is our first conversation on the air since that seismic moment earlier this year. Since he left Fox, Tucker has been putting our videos, out videos, I should say, on the platform formerly known as Twitter. Now it's called X, with his successful Tucker on X show. But as we're going to discuss today, there's a whole lot more Tucker coming your way, starting right here. Tucker Carlson, welcome back to the show. It's great to see you. You said Fox News is still not divulged. Literally, the first thing that came to my mind was,

I bet he's guilty of human trafficking. And then I thought, wait, it's me. I'm trafficking. It just sounds so bad. To this day, we don't know why they did it. You and I thought, though, if Irina thought she could get away with that lie, she would have planted it. Sure. I've never trafficked anybody. I will say I've had a long and varied life, but that has not been part of it. Let's thank God for that. Well, that's as good a place to start as any. And we're going to get to very shortly. You have a big announcement about what you're doing next, which is what people want to know. Let's just spend a minute on the Fox termination because it was such a huge story. We covered it for months here on this show, as you know. And I've heard you talk

about it in other forums, but you and I have got to have this discussion. First of all, how are you doing? Here we are. What about seven months after it happened? You seem better than ever. You seem very excited about the new adventure. When it first happened, though, you were reeling and there's that moment of like finding your footing. like, wait, what does this mean for me? Well, actually, I mean, I'm great. I wasn't expecting it at all. But I also felt and I expressed this in the conversation I had when I got the news. Kind of not my company.

And I always knew that. And I've been in the business since I was in my 20s. I'm now 54. So that's a long time. And I knew that this is kind of how the end comes. Very few people leave voluntarily. In fact, you're one of the only people I've ever met who made it to the top and then left. And that's not the course of events for most people on TV. So I actually felt like I got out pretty well. I mean, I didn't do anything bad other than have naughty opinions,

but I didn't commit any crimes. I didn't harass anybody and they didn't accuse me of that. So I actually felt pretty good about it. I was shocked for like the first eight minutes. And then I called my wife. She was thrilled. And then, you know, our staff came with us. So I wound up living and working with the same people that I had been with for the, you know, previous number of years. And I love them. And so that was great. And then we got to go.

That was such a blessing. Travel. Oh, such a blessing. That was such a blessing, Tucker. Oh, yes. And such a credit to you because your staff does not follow you if they don't love you. And of course, Fox had no love for them either, I'm sure. But it was a testament to you. And they're still with you, helping you in the new venture. Well, they were the best people there. That was the weird part. I mean,

they were literally the best people there. Much more. I've never been particularly knowledgeable about or good at TV. I just sort of stare at a camera and say what I think. But these are people who really understand television and were super smart, loyal. And they're all every single one of them is a good person. All of them stay at my house all the time. I mean, they're like friends of mine. So, yes, that was amazing for me. But what's amazing about the departure from Fox is, yes, you do serve at the pleasure of, you know, the Murdochs, of course. But unlike, and I know you sort of laughed about having been fired from all these other networks because you've been in the business for a long time, but you were succeeding. They don't normally fire you when

you're at the top of your game, when you are the ratings king, when you're making news. You had just had a huge interview with Elon Musk. You had just done Kanye. I mean, you've been making huge news and you were the most relevant thing on Fox. That's unusual. I mean, that's why everybody was like, what? It wasn't like low rated show on whatever network. This was a powerhouse that they

ended what felt to most of us like clear out of the blue. Well, I mean, I should just say what I've said before, which is I sincerely don't know why they canceled the show. And I would I would I would absolutely say so if I did know, because I want to be as honest as I can be. But I don't. But you could flip it around if you were speculating and imagine that maybe being the top show is not a strength, but potentially a weakness. Maybe that's a problem if you're saying things that people don't like and who knows who those people are. But if they're unpopular with people who have more power than you do and you have a big audience, then it's not so good to be the top rated show. If you're like languishing at 2 p.m. on the weekends and you've got naughty thoughts, like they can put

up with it. But if you have, you know, a much larger audience, then they're hearing about it a lot. And it really is like one of those mysteries that I'll probably never get to the bottom of. And I've stopped even thinking about it at all. But, you know, it could be a lot of different things. I had a lot of different opinions that people that some people didn't like. And I've stopped even thinking about it at all. But, you know, it could be a lot of different things. I had a lot of different opinions that people that some people didn't like. And I should say Fox never tried to tell me what to say. And I wouldn't have put up with it for a minute anyway, but they didn't. And good for them. But, you know, it could have been I had heterodox views on Ukraine. I had heterodox views on the covid vaccine, immigration, January 6th. As you said, I interviewed Kanye. I interviewed said, I interviewed Kanye.

I interviewed Trump. I interviewed Elon. I mean, you know, who knows who you offend? And I guess the only thing I would say is it's not even aimed at Fox, really. It's kind of aimed at the many other people that some of whom are actually loathsome, particularly in politics, who were complaining not to my face. Everyone's got my text. Everyone on the planet has my text. So you can always text me or call me or say, you know, I think you're awful. I disagree with you on this and here's why. But rather than do that, they took this much more feline, stealthy and dishonorable approach, which is, you know, bitch to your boss. And those are the people, and I can imagine who a couple of them were, and they're exactly the people you would imagine, you know, Mitch McConnell or that weird guy from Wisconsin

who was speaker for a while, people like that, you know, they, instead of saying it to my face, they, I think went to others. And I don't respect that at all. I mean, I really don't. Paul Ryan, and he was on the Fox board. So definitely had the ear. And as we understand, it was not a fan, but you know, that's, that's what happens when you make it to the top of cable news primetime. You have a lot of detractors. Can I just say one thing? If you don't like somebody, Megan, and I know I know you pretty well. If you don't like somebody, you say things like, hey, I don't like you. And here's why. You're pretty straightforward about what you think. And first of all, there's freedom in that and there's dignity in that. You're not lying to somebody's face. And that's what bothers me on a human level is if you don't like what I think,

say it to me, but they never will because they're cowards. This is the thing that bothered me about the whole thing, Tucker. You're right. It's a brutal, toxic business and anybody can be axed for whatever reason at any time. But the disrespect they showed to the audience and in my view to you in not giving you an answer, a reason, was unforgivable. You're nicer than I am,

which I think most people would say. You're way nicer than I am. I'm still pissed off about it. It was so wrong. You didn't get a reason. Your wife Susie didn't get a reason. Your family didn't get a reason. And then they spent weeks in the press

trying to disparage you. See, I'm bitter about it. You're not bitter. I'm bitter on your behalf. Well, it's funny you say that because I was mad warrior at NBC when they called you a racist for talking about Halloween costumes. I was like, what? And of course, they called me a racist, too. But I'm not a racist. That's the thing. And I do have weaknesses. I definitely have a weakness for Oreos and related Nabisco products. And like that's sort of obvious to everybody. And, you know, there are definitely things that you could say. I've been wrong about some things in a public way. And you could say that. But calling me a racist, I was like, yeah, I'm a racist. OK. I mean, it's just so dumb.

It didn't even bother me. And I don't think at this point like that's a meaningful attack when it's untrue. And it's pretty clear that it is untrue. So I wasn't, I don't really care. And I also, I feel happy and I feel liberated and I, you know, I wouldn't want to be in that business. And I did my turn as you did. I spent decades in that business and I'm 54. It's like, what are you going to be in cable news till you're 74? I don't think so. And there's so much other interesting stuff to do that. Like like you can't really be mad. Like on what grounds could I be mad? I don't know.

Like some corporate person didn't like me. Well, I don't like corporate people. So we're even. All right. So that leads me to the really relevant question, which is, did they ever fire you? Are you still working there? Are you still getting a paycheck? Well, I never. The thing is, I mean, I'm not, of course I'm not working there. Um, but I didn't violate my contract and no one ever claimed that I did. Um, which, and you know,

it's so hard to know where the, you know, I don't read, you can ask my producer, Justin, if I've, I don't think I've ever read anything about myself, like anything at all. Not one word because I know who I am. That's how you stay sane. Well, yeah. And I care about what my family and friends think. And that's kind of it. So I don't really know what they said about me.

But I kept hearing, you know, oh, they're saying you're a racist because of your text messages or whatever. Well, there are no racist texts. I'm actually not a racist. So they didn't find I'm not having an affair. I don't have a secret drug problem or whatever. And so, you know, that I don't. But it's hard to know exactly how that made it into the press. So, no, it's not. It's not hard at all.

Well, we were very clear. We we have our suspicions, don't we? We do. Yeah. But also, I would say that well aware that anyone who does that how did it ever resolve because they canceled the show oh but they didn't fire you i'm so they wanted you to stay in limbo right so this is what it's like to have dinner with me we can never stay on a topic um i beg your pardon you asked a direct question i'll give you a direct answer i didn't violate my contract i'm not working there obviously um but i did not violate my contract. So there was no there were no grounds to end my contract. So so there you go. Contract enforced. But their plan was clearly to keep you under the thumb for the next, you know, throughout the election cycle. And then when your deal

expired post November of 24 to say, OK, now you're free. Right. And usually people at Fox will take that deal because they need the money. Now you don't really need the money and you've never really cared about money anyway, so they're miscalculating your value system. So to me, this is interesting as an industry person because this is what these big corporations do, is they, in order to work there, they make you sign a non-compete

and they make you say, if you get fired, even without cause, you can't work for anybody else. You can't do anything else until the expiration date of the contract. Well, your case challenged that because you said, on your money, I don't care about your money. I'm going to launch a show. Now, today, you're going to launch a whole new network, which we're going to talk about in a minute. And it really put Fox in a difficult spot because if they let you do it, it challenges their whole system, their whole setup for everybody else who's still laboring there who may have to face the same decision.

So what's the status of that? Do they ever sue you? No, no, no, no, no. And I mean, I'm, you know, I'm not into legal action. I'm a simple man and I don't like a lot of the trappings of the modern world. And one of the main ones I dislike is the impulse to take everything to court. And so, you know, anything I can do to avoid that. But, you know, my position, you know, I've used social media and had a digital presence

for the entirety of my work at Fox and in my previous job. So like that's and many people at cable news networks, you know, have digital presences. Many of them sell things on the side. You know, like it's not, there's a long precedent for that. I really think what it comes down to- BillO'Reilly.com. Well, exactly. I think what it comes down to is- Roger used to say, he may want to sell doormats.

I saw him the other day. He was so much happier. It was interesting. I don't want to speak for him, but you know, there is a world out there. So no, I don't anticipate any problems with them. I'm not mad at them. And I also think if I'm being totally honest, you know, it's there's something a little bit gross about, you know, holding a grudge or whatever. I'm not on your own behalf. I'm happy to hold grudges on behalf of other people, but I I don't want to hold them on my own behalf because that does seem a little narcissistic. But I do think it's a huge problem, not simply for that channel, but for all the channels and for, in fact, a lot of corporate America. If it's clear that there's a pathway out of it, if you can rise to the top at Fox, go to NBC and have them call you a racist over a Halloween

conversation and then emerge as like a big force in American politics and life and hosted debate, then you're a living symbol that actually, you know, there's some things you don't have to put up with. And so I do think that's threatening, again, not just to Fox or MSNBC, but to Citibank or whatever, any corporate overlord who is mistaking himself for God, as so many of these people do. You know, if people can get get out and be happier and prosperous and still have a role in the public conversation, it's really a threat because the whole system is based on the idea you're nothing without us. And that's just not true because you have inherent value because God created you. That's my feeling. And so I don't care how many times the PR people are, you know, you suck without us and

you need us to manage it. It's like, no, I don't. I feel better about myself than that. You're like sad and miserable. Like, please leave my office now. You know, it gives you a whole new sense of your value, kind of. Yeah, no, no, it's entirely true. And that's the one blessing of separating from that system, whether it's voluntarily or involuntary. It's you're free. You're free. You are kind of forced if you want to stay doing what we do to find a new way, right? Like to, it's like Darwinism. And before you know it, you've, you've risen again. You found a new and better way of delivering your message and the news. And lo and behold, as I know has happened with you, the audience comes. They find you.

Even if it's on X to begin with, and now it's going to be much bigger, they find you. I think that's right. And I think especially now, well, first of all, speaking for myself, I don't have any other talents. And if they start paying you to quail hunt or trout fish, I'll get rich. But other than that, I've been in journalism my to quail hunt or trout fish, I'll get rich. But other than that, you know, I'm just I've been in journalism my whole life. And so that's what I'm doing. But I think now, you know, there's a need for people who are honest, not always right. I mean, I'll speak for myself. I've been wrong a lot. I have some views that on in retrospect,

turn out to be stupid. I know I'll have more of those. But the audience can tell if you're trying to tell the truth. And that's kind of the main thing they want, I think, is just your commitment to honesty, as imperfect as it may be. And if they see other news organizations who aren't even trying, whose whole existence is about manipulating you, the public, you, the public, into joining some program that's bad for you and your family, that really is where we are now. Then, then of course there's going to be a massive hunger for something better than that. It doesn't take much to be better than that, by the way, because I would say one other thing is the second you start to see your mission as shaping the public's views on something or getting everyone on board to whatever dumb project they've dreamed up this week, you lose all curiosity because you're so mission driven. Like we've got to get them to support this stupid thing. And that really is the way they see the world, all these companies.

Then you miss all the other amazing stuff that's going on around the world. Like you stop being curious. And that is the thing that strikes me about corporate media, is their incuriosity, their total disinterest in anything or lack of interest in anything that's happening. And so much is happening. The whole world is resetting and exploding in some places. And it's just a fascinating time. And they miss all of it. It's the same story on a loop, just like North Korea just beating you into submission. Dear leader, dear leader, dear leader. And even if I like the dear leader, which I don't, but even if I did, I'd be like, OK, got it. Love the dear leader.

What else is going on? Nothing, just dear leader. And I just think that that's so tiresome that it demands an alternative. Well, this is why they were so wrong on COVID and they were so wrong on Russiagate. And they have, yes, there are ideological biases there too, but they drive the mission of what dear leader's gonna say. What is the message?

They're not driven by truth. And even at Fox, you were there, I think you were there when this happened. I know I was there when after Romney lost in 2012, Roger did the complete reset, including with Paul Ryan and some others on, now we're going to be pro-illegal immigration. Now we're going to be pro-finding a path to amnesty. Like we're going to do a 180. And I remember watching like Hannity, who I think we both like, you know, on the air, who had been pushing exactly the opposite up until like the night of election, have to try to do a 180 because the message had come down from above Marco Rubio. That's actually the name I was looking for. They were all on board this sort of gang of eight. And it was like, how is this honest? Right. It's like it feels like a surrender as opposed to

just reporting what's real, what the real problems are and letting the viewers figure out what the right solution is. That's exactly right. And I do think you sap your credibility over time if you do something like that. And I should just say again that my arrangement with that company was super simple for the whole 14 years I was there, which was, you know, it's your company. If you don't like what I'm saying, please take me off the air because that's your prerogative because you own it and I don't. But as long as I'm on the air, I'm going to say exactly what I think. And they were totally okay with that. And that's one of the reasons I was pretty much okay with being taken off the air because that kind of was the

deal. You know, don't tell me what to think. I will never stay. I will die first. Okay. And I mean that. But if you don't like it, just pull the plug. And I do think that's the more honorable way to do it. Just like, again, it's your channel.

And if you don't, but I'm not going to say things that I don't believe ever. And once you start doing that, once you start lying, you become, it changes you as a person. And the opposite is also true. The second you decide to tell the truth, not just in public, but in your personal life, really tell the truth, then you become strong. But if you don't, if you go along with their lies, it hollows you out inside and you become this kind of desiccated, desperate, fearful person. And boy, you see that on the faces of so many people on television. I look at Joe Scarborough, who I knew really well, and I always thought a lot of him, I didn't always agree with him, but he's smart. He's quite smart. I mean, that is true

because I know him really well. And then he starts to go along with these lies and all this. I'm not going to beat up on Joe Scarborough, but you look at him and you're like, this is a man who was on the run from himself, from everyone around him. He's just like desperate to to play this role. And that's just hell. Like, I would never live like that. And there's no reason ever to live like that. Well, what's interesting to the audience, I think, is they can relate to this, even if they've never worked for a media company, because they're being forced to do this in their own life on all this woke nonsense.

That's right. because they're being forced to do this in their own life on all this woke nonsense. They're being forced to go to these DEI trainings and say the things and not fly their American flag in some instances, otherwise they're considered controversial and accept that there can be more than two genders and two biological sex. Like they're being forced, otherwise they're being fired

or they're getting hauled down to HR, right? So it's like, even if you're a civilian, you know exactly what we're talking about. You feel it. Well, I mean, just, and it's almost literally in the water. I mean, it's so pervasive that you don't even think about it. But I mean, for 20 years, they've been telling us that the single greatest threat to our internal security is white Christians. It's like, what, no one has Google? No one has, you know, no one can read numbers. Like, that's just a lot. I mean, whatever you could, maybe you don't like white Christians. That's totally fine. But to tell us that they're the great threat to peace and harmony in America

is literally insane. There are no data that show that to be true. It's the inverse of the truth. And people just kind of accept that they're supposed to nod along and listen to that. That and like a hundred other lies that form the basis of our civic life. Like it's kind of all a lie, actually. The propaganda has been so thick for so long that people internalize this stuff that's the mirror image of the truth and they don't even know it. And I do think as people start to be like, wait a second, that's not true. Is that true? Do we know that that's true? Once they start to say that out loud, wow, you know, heads explode and you hear it all the time. I'm sure you do as well. People you know are like are like, oh, my gosh, you know, this is freaking me out. You know, I believe in things that used to be called conspiracy theories, but they're true.

I do think if you start to get critical mass of people thinking like that and I pray to God it stays peaceful. But I do think you've got big change ahead because like people like, no, that's just that's a lie. And I'm not going along with it because guess what? I'm a free man, not a slave. You're seeing more and more of that today. And I'm not going along with it because guess what? I'm a free man, not a slave. You're seeing more and more of that today. And I'm going to talk about your media company. But just to your point, one of the things I wanted to talk to you about was there is an Axios piece out right now on Trump and what his second term might look like. And there are many, many alleged threats that we all need to fear deeply. But one of them that Axios wanted us to know was his alleged second term cabinet is mostly white men. Oh, my God. Are you serious? He's going to

be bringing in the ones who founded the country. Get them out of here. Like what? It's like putting that in articles like we're supposed to be alarmed. But it's kind of crazy if they said, well, it's mostly Jews or it's mostly Filipinos or the way too many black guys here. Everyone be like, wait, what? You're attacking people on the basis of their race. Universal principles apply always. And that is always wrong. So, no, you can't do that. I'm not saying you should be put in jail or fired for it, but like the copy editor should say, are we attacking people on the basis of their race? Let's take that out because we don't do that in this country because we don't want to be Rwanda. But it's just great. And I and I do hope that people push back in a gentle,

firm, principled way against that. You know, no. How about no? You know. Yeah, well, you're doing it. All right. So that leads me to the big announcement today. So tell us what you're doing. The headline that that we got from your team is you're launching a streaming service. And then I will be honest from your team is you're launching a streaming service. And then I will be honest, I was like, what is a streaming service? Is that like Hulu when I go to my TV or Apple or Netflix? Explain what it means and describe the scope of it. I'm about to make a river joke.

There's nothing to a streams. And as a trout fisherman, that makes me sad. No, it's simply bringing programming to you by subscription digitally. And we're going to be doing that for two reasons. One, X, which has just been an amazing venue for us and will continue to be our venue. And Elon Musk has been really great to us. it's not set up for searching previous videos, for example. If you put out a lot of content- For subscription.

That's exactly, or for subscriptions. I think it will be. I mean, there's a subscription function on X and I think it's, they're fine tuning it and I think we're going to participate in that at some point, et cetera, et cetera. But just the way that it's structured, the nature of the app doesn't lend itself to like putting a big library right in front of you on one page. And we want to do that because we have a lot of stuff. And so it's a subscription model, just like any other streaming service or one of these companies with plus at the end. And the point is really simple. It's twofold. One, you know, you want to bring a lot of material. I hate the word content. I'm trying to think of an option. A lot of material, a lot of news, a lot of facts, a lot of

thoughtful opinions to people. You want a library. We had a huge library where we worked before. We lost the whole thing. So we want to rebuild that. And second, you need some scale. I'm not a money person, as you said correctly, I probably should be a little more, but we live pretty simply actually. So we don't, but anyway, but you need, you need to have a lot of people work for you. If you want to gather the information, there are just too many things going on. And so in order to have, you know, a staff capable of bringing a lot of information about what's happening right now, particularly in the next 12 months, which will reshape the world in my view, you know, you need to pay them and you need to have like a real company. And the downside is, of course, once you have a real company,

you know, then the stakes rise. If you're a lone person, whatever, you know, it's, you're more cat-like, you're like the Viet Cong, you can march 20 miles and sleep in a tree. But if you're a company, you're more a fixed position and a fixed target. So there is a downside to it, but we felt that we needed to do it because there's just a lot going on. So yeah, it's a subscription service. Okay. So, and to get it, people need to go to tuckercarlson.com right now. Yes. And as I understand it, they can sign up and they can have this subscription relationship with you for $9 a month or $72 a year, something like that. And in addition, they can still get all the free content on X and on an audio podcast that you're dropping.

Exactly. And the X stuff is not going away. And I've just been amazed by what a great platform it's been. And the main thing that I've noticed is not just the scale of it. I'm sure coming from television, you see this too. It's like the number of people who watch this show dwarfs anything that's happening on linear television. It's crazy. It's a different world. I know it's amazing. But the thing that I really noticed is how international it is. I mean, it truly is kind of the world's last big free speech platform. I mean,

it is that. And so there's something very appealing about that. The international, we took seven international trips this summer around the world. And I wanted to do that because I've been stuck in the studio for all these years and I hadn't done it in a long time since the beginning of the war on terror, actually. And, um, and it just confirmed my belief that everything is changing so fast, particularly America's role in the world. And so we've got, you know, this winter, we're traveling around the world to a bunch of different places. We've got a bunch of different interviews and stories that we're doing in various countries. And that's a huge feature of it. And that,

you know, a lot of that will appear on X. But you also sort of wonder, I like long form. You now do it for a living. You know how satisfying it is to talk to someone for more than eight minutes. You sort of wonder, there's got to be a place that's easier to view than social media are right now. And so some of that will go on X. And then if you're interested in more and some other features and documentaries, we're doing a bunch of documentaries. All of that is in the subscription service. So we think it's worth it. You know what this reminds me of, Tucker? I appeared at some media conference a year ago, and one of the main featured speakers

was Mr. Beast. And Mr. Beast, you know, he's incredibly, incredibly successful. Yes. He's figured out the YouTube algorithm. Like the head of YouTube was there talking about how he's incredibly, incredibly successful. Yes. He's figured out the YouTube algorithm. Like the head of YouTube was there talking about how he's spoken to this guy, Jimmy, and how he's not just some kid who got lucky on YouTube. Like he figured out the algorithm. That's right. And started programming to it and just everything exploded. I think he's got 200 million subscribers now. But one of the ways in which he did it was he appeals to a worldwide audience he's gone beyond the united states of america and he produces content that could be interesting across cultures across languages and so on and that's kind of what i see you doing you're like becoming the mr beast of news well

i would say i mean that's a huge compliment because he's been so remarkably successful in the medium i would just say two things he He works with YouTube. OK, so he's he's very he's actually sort of part of their business in a way. I'm not attacking that, but that's a little bit different from what we're doing. And I would also say that he's very self-consciously, you know, non-offensive. He's trying to appeal to his wife. You know, he's Disney trying to sell a movie. And you're the opposite. Well, a little bit. I mean, just by, not that I seek to offend people. I really don't. In fact, I think it's wrong to offend people for its own sake. I'm not giving the finger to old ladies at crosswalks. You know what I mean? I actually don't like to offend people. However. No, but

truth telling in modern day America can be offensive. Well, in the modern day world, I mean, there, you know, what's happening in America looks very much like what's happening in half a dozen other countries I've been to in the last couple of months. I mean, what's happening in America looks very much like what's happening in half a dozen other countries I've been to in the last couple of months. I mean, it's the same template. The countries are becoming less democratic. They yelp about democracy constantly. Democracy, we're defending democracy, when in fact, they're creating permanent oligarchies with the help of technology. That's exactly what's happening. And again, not just here. The Anglosphere, they put people in concentration camps in Australia. They ended free speech in New Zealand and and any right to self-defense like these are countries are

becoming authoritarian. Canada killed like in the last few years has killed over 40,000 of its own citizens through state, you know, state administered suicide. Like there's all this amazing stuff going on around the world. And so to push back against any of it immediately means you're going to be called, let me guess, a racist, racist, and a bunch of other things too. And so it's kind of baked in the cake, like you're gonna make people mad if you call them out on what they're doing. That's wrong. And but we, but that's kind of the whole point is because we don't, I mean, and that really is the whole point of the subscriptions is like, I mean, I don't know how honest, you know, I should probably be here, but like I didn't, Elon never offered me any money or

anything or to hire me or anything like that. But it, and I, I love him and I think he's wonderful, but it never occurred to me to ask to work for him because the whole point is not working for anybody. That's like the whole point. And we turned down a couple of opportunities, very generous and kind. And I think they were meant in the best spirit, but just the nature of that arrangement is something that at this stage of my life, I just, I just don't want, I want to wake up and say to myself, you can say whatever you want, you know, within the bounds of what you think is true, your own conscience, whatever. But I'm going to make those calls and I'm going to do it without interference, period.

And I'm going to tell the unadorned truth. And I hope gently and, you know, in as least offensive way as I possibly can. But I'm going to tell that truth until the day I die. And I really mean that. And I'm going to try to do it in my personal life, too. It's one of my things that I've resolved to do until I die, because I think that's the answer. I really do. This is the only way for you. This is the only way forward. And if you zoom out, and then we looked at 94 at Tucker Carlson's career, when we look back at 53, which I think

you were when the Fox decision came down, it will be the best thing that ever happened to you. It'll be a great thing for America. You know, you look at the stats, we just had numbers out today. In fact, my team pulled these for me and I thought they were very interesting on what cable's doing, what broadcast is doing right now. And I know you know that, you know, it's a dying business, but the stats actually show it.

Just not for nothing, but take a listen to this. The headline at The Verge is, "'It's official, people are not watching TV "'as much as they used to. Linear TV now accounts for less than 50% of all TV usage. So, you know, you've got a TV in your house. You turn it on, you have all sorts of options. You can turn on cable,

you can turn on your broadcast television networks, ABC, NBC, CBS, or you can turn on, or you can go to Apple, you can go to Hulu, you can go to Netflix, you can go to Amazon Prime, or you can go to YouTube. You can, like, you have all different, Rumble, you have different options there now. And those different options are now dominating the more than 50% cable and linear television entirely, nevermind news, are dying. So you've left a dying animal and you've gotten on top of this new,

exciting horse, and you're going on top of this new exciting horse and you're going to ride it off into the sunset all the way to your dying day, Tucker. And I think you're going to be an important voice even more so than you were. All right, stand by. I got to pay my bills. This is not a subscription service. We depend on the advertisers. What's coming up right now?

More with Tucker Carlson, who stays with us for the show. They told you the guys torching Wendy's in 2020 were mostly peaceful. They said that masks worked. They told you the fax was safe. They tried to convince you that Russia blew up its own pipeline. The corporate media lied too much and it killed them. We're driving to see Julian Assange. Believe me when I tell you.

Wait, wait, wait. I should be boycotting Bud Light. Fantastic job. Thank you. That was amazing. Tucker Carlson Network in the background is like a red pill, which I love. That promo was exciting. And by the way, once again, for the audience, Tucker Carlson dot com to sign up for their subscriptions and the Tucker Carlson podcast

available free and everywhere. First episode with our mutual friend Kid Rock just came out. Love it. He's so entertaining to talk to. Best. I love. Is it meant to be a red pill in the background or is that just am I imagining that as hard as it may be to believe it's true? I had never seen any of that before. I just, I just saw it all now for the first time. You've never seen any? No, no, no, no. I have a weird style of, I've got producers in the studio right now who are nodding, but yeah, I have a weird style where I just, I'm like totally in my own world and I stay there and I don't ever kind of venture out. And the people that we have, who we've worked with, I've worked with for many years now are so good that I never ask like,

oh, what did the promo look like? Or what's the design look like? I mean, I've never asked. I've never seen any of it. So I like it though. I would sign up. Yeah, it was great. I love it. Yeah. Those are all ad-libbed, by the way. That promo, we just made it up. I made it up as I was talking because it seemed true. But yeah, no. So I don't think anybody from HBS is going to be studying my management style and trying to replicate it. Because it's probably not the most conventional. Because it's not replicatable.

Yeah, maybe. No, I've said, and forgive me because I like Vivek and I know you like Vivek too. But one of my criticisms of Vivek in this race has been he's trying to be you, but there's only one you and it's not imitatable. Like he's got to do his own thing. There's, there's only one Vivek. He should stay in that lane. There's no imitating Trump, but there's no imitating Tucker, period. Well, it's interesting. I know you've noticed that, I mean, this is neither here nor there, but it's just, I've always noticed it that candidates during the course of a campaign, particularly if it gets intense,

they do change. I mean, they reach, they become different people. I've seen this, I've covered a lot of candidates and, you know, known a lot of presidents and everything. And they, by the end of the campaign, they really are a different person. So I feel like when you watch people at debates or on the stump or whatever, you're watching someone in the process of becoming something different. And I really notice it with a fake. He is changing in real time. He's, you know, candidates try and teach their audience and convince their audience. But they're also learning from the experience of being in front of audiences, I have noticed. And he is changing. And I have to say, I mean, that debate,

I should have said this at the outset, was amazing. It was the only interesting one we've had this cycle. Congratulations on that. His hostility toward Nikki Haley, I mean, you're in the room, you tell me. That seemed completely real. That did not seem manufactured at all. Was it?

Did you think? Oh, it's legit. Yeah. I completely think it's legit. And I think he's, it's fine. Yeah. I completely think it's legit. And I think he's it's fine. He's representing a segment of the GOP base that can't stand her. I think she's too hawkish, that thinks she's too tied to the establishment. That's like people got offended by his little sign. I like the prop. I want more props. I agree. Like the visuals. I like

what your message is. They don't have to agree with it. Completely. But it wasn't fake, though, because I hear people say, and I'm kind of, I don't cover, follow politics that closely, honestly, electoral politics. But I hear the main rap against Vivek is that he's manufactured. You know, this is like some McKinsey scheme to become president. But that just watching the tape, and I'm just interested since you were literally there in the room doing the moderating, that seemed like truly how he feels. That did not seem like an act at all. Oh, yeah.

I think those two can't stand each other. And even in the breaks, you see Christy and Nikki Haley sort of together and cracking jokes, and they seem very friendly with one another. And a little bit more this time, DeSantis and Vivek, like they were a little bit more friendly, but it was, for me, it was fascinating because you saw like the old school Republican Party and more of the new school Republican Party on stage in a way that was, you know, pretty indicative of where we've been and where we're going. Yeah, they don't like each other.

I think Vivek, the criticism of him, which I tried to get to in my electability question for him is, you know, I was joking on the air that he was like Sybil at these debates. Like the first debate, he was like, he came out of nowhere. He was, everyone's bought and paid for. And then the second debate, he's like, everyone's a good person. And I hate personal insults. Debate number three was like, he's wearing high heels. So good. Was it different for you host? Because obviously you've done this before, but to do it with not reacted to my question on COVID vaccine injuries. And I really have questions about how Fox would have reacted to my question on trans and kids and what we're doing to the children. They're not so great over at Fox News on this thing. So

it was great to be, and to their credit, News Nation, which was not in charge of me, we were equal partners on that whole thing. They didn't give me one bit of guff. Like at no point did anybody say, hey, are you sure you want to ask that with the look of terror in their eyes? Totally right. And that was one of the reasons why it was important to me to be not just an anchor of it, but a co-sponsor of the whole thing. Like I'm going to ask what I want to ask. And I had full editorial control over my questions, which I never would have at Fox or NBC. But see, that's what's great about our new system. I'm just thinking like, and I'm sure everyone at News Nation, I don't know them, but I'm sure they were obviously they wouldn't have partnered with you if they didn't like you. However, because you're you're really kind of beholden just to yourself, they can't try and control you because in the

back of their minds, if they're like, Megan, you can't say that. You just go on your show and say, you know, News Nation was trying to tell me what to say. And do you know what I mean? It's like, once people get free, everybody's more free because you actually have watchdogs, real watchdogs, not the fake fact check watchdogs. But like if, you know, if you try and get Megan Kelly to lie, she'll just go in public and reveal you. And that keeps people more honest, I think. It's so, it's empowering to you as a truth teller, like you can just keep telling more truth. And for me, I love it on this show, because I said before, and I know I watched you on Fox go after Sidney Powell, that whole Dominion

thing saying she's lying to you. This is bullshit. So you do it, too. You're not all about whispering the sweet nothings to your audience. Even like, you know what they want. The audience did not want to hear you say, Sidney Powell is a fraud. Don't believe her. I'm telling you, this is bullshit. The Kraken and the voting machines. And, but you said it, you said it. And that's how I feel here. Like I have to say what I know is real based on what I've seen. Can we be, Can we be omnipotent? Can we see everything? No, we can do the best we can without having an agenda. And that's all anybody can ask of us, right?

That's literally the best we can do. And people can feel it, I think. I mean, they may not know what all the details are. Sometimes I don't know what all the details are. But they can tell if you're, A, not controlled, if you're really trying to follow your conscience, and B, if you're trying to tell the truth as you understand it. And I do think admitting fault is a huge part of maintaining that trust. That's one thing I noticed about the people who run the country and the world. The one thing they'll never do is admit they were wrong. And you wonder

why. Is it really so hard to admit you were wrong? It's the basis of all the Abrahamic religions. You can't be a religious person without first admitting you were wrong. You can't recover from drug and alcohol addiction until you do the same. I mean, it really is a prerequisite for living a happy, balanced, decent life. And it's the one thing that they can't do under any circumstances. They'll never admit like, wow, you know, we thought Saddam had weapons of mass destruction. Turn out he did. And I'm really sorry. And we're doing our best. If they'd done that 20 years ago, this country would be in such a better place, even if they continued the war. If they just admitted their own wrongness and culpability in that and misleading the public. I mean, you know, it would have just been a much better place, much better place. But they didn't. It's not it's not really in the DNA

of most politicians. And I mean, let's be honest, it's not in the DNA of the two politicians who are likely to be the GOP and Dem nominees right now either. No, I don't, I don't remember either of them having that, but on that subject, I've got to ask you, and I want to talk politics too. This was very interesting. Trump went on the Clay and Buck show. I know you've heard about this and he, well, maybe you haven't because you don't really tune into the news and listen to the following exchange top three. So would Tucker Carlson be on your list of potential VPs? I like Tucker a lot. I guess I would. I think I'd say I would because he's got great common sense. Oh, I know you get asked this all the time, but I mean, if asked, would you serve? Well, it's just, it's just so unimaginable. I mean, I haven't led a life that prepares a

person for politics. As I said, I don't think I have any like horrible skeletons or anything. It's not that, it's just that that's not how my brain works. I've never done anything like that. I can't imagine spending time with politicians. I'm a total sucker for Trump. I think he's, you know, personally, I get along with Trump really well. The closer I am physically to Trump, like if I'm with him in the room, I always love Trump. And I think it's impossible not to.

And you know the experience. He's just charming. OK, and he's funny as hell. Yeah. And he's brave in his way, I think. So I really appreciate that. And I agree with fundamentally with his views. You know, maybe fewer wars, maybe have a border like those are not crazy things. And I support them wholeheartedly. And I'm appalled and terrified

by the use of the DOJ to rig an election, which is what's happening now. So all those factors make me kind of psyched to vote for Trump. But serving in politics with anybody, I mean, that's just, that's a, it's a lot for me to think about because I just don't think I'm really suited for that. I mean, do they, would anyone want to see a guy like me run for office? I mean, people are like, oh yeah, not really actually. I'm kind of, not really. And I don't know that I'd be good at it all. If I had you on that debate stage, Tucker, I actually thought about this. If you were out on that debate stage last week as one of the candidates, it would be so fun. Because you really would be just saying what's real.

There would be no massaging of message. And everyone would respond so well to you. Like, it's just so rare. And when someone is as authentic as you are, the people know. I just don't think they're, you're not going to end your life without having been probably president, maybe vice president. It's interesting, though. I've known a couple people, I've known everyone who's run for president pretty much in the last 30 years. But I've had a couple people that I really like and stayed at my house run for president just from another life.

And then they get into it. And you always think, wow, this is the person who's just going to be completely honest and say what he really thinks. And not in a way to inflame people. I don't think you should do that, by the way. Don't inflame people on purpose. There's no virtue in that. But just tell the truth. And then you see them subverted. I mean, it's crazy. And I would never name names because I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. But you see these people run for president. All of a sudden, an issue will pop up. And it's like, where did that come from? Well, because they're getting leaned on or blackmailed, which is real. Let me just say that without being more specific. That's real. I have

seen it. You know, we found out this about you. Cool it on that. I've seen that happen. So if you suspect that it's kind of rigged by, you know, people with more power than the candidates, you're absolutely right. And so I don't know. I mean, that whole world is is, you know, repugnant to me, to be honest with you. So it's it's it's a no for now. You can't envision it. The door is not totally shut. I mean, who knows what happens in the coming year? I think we're in for real volatility and if there's some way that I could help, but you know, I'm not bragging and it's not just a function of money. No, I don't have a mortgage. I'll admit that. But you know, I live in a 2000 square foot house. I don't live in luxury at all, but I live very happily, like very, very happily, my wife and I,

and boy with our many, many dogs and our many, many children. So I, I would, the idea of disrupting that is, I mean, it would, I'd really So I would the idea of disrupting that is I mean, it would I'd really need to feel like, gosh, you know, I have to do this or something, which and the idea that I would have to do something, you know, it comes down to me to say, you know, my job is not to save people. I don't imagine that I'm like some superhero. I'm just a hack journalist who somehow endured in this business longer than most people. I'm really grateful for what I have, but I don't think like America needs me and I don't want to become an egomaniac or a solipsist. And that's what you become when you start thinking that way. So I'm not thinking that

way at all. Do you know what I mean? But this is exactly why you need to run. I do. This is exactly why you need to run because everybody who does run tends to be narcissistic and you're not. So it's fine by me if they drag you across the finish line as opposed to you skipping willingly. But can I ask you a question? I read in the papers. When was the last time you've been around every politician, you know, them all? When was the last time you were around a big time politician who listened when you talked, who asked you a question and was sincerely interested in the answer, who was interested in anybody but himself? I mean, maybe you've met people like that. I've met very, very few. That business corrupts people. Yeah, no one's coming to mind. And you're right. I've met them

all and I've seen them all and I've seen them all recently. Exactly. I mean, you know, as your journalist, you don't really, it's like the relationship is sort of, it's not subservient, but it's more like pursuer and pursued. It's transactional. I'm not expecting them to want to know things about me. Right. But yes, no, you're not wrong. I think what I read in the papers is that Melania wants you to be Trump's running mate. So just, you know, you may have the inside. Well, I like she's Eastern European, so we're on the same page. All right. Stand by. I'm going to do another one of the quick breaks. We're going to come back and we're going to talk about the latest poll numbers on Trump, among many other things. Do you hear what's happening at Harvard? Now, UPenn, the head, Liz McGill, is out and it looks like the head of

Harvard may be out soon too, unconfirmed. But now she's embroiled in an alleged plagiarism scandal. In addition to her answers on Israel, we'll get into all of it. So much more to go over as Tucker stays with us. I'm Megyn Kelly, host of The Megyn Kelly Show on SiriusXM. It's your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations with the most interesting and important political, legal, and cultural figures today. You can catch The Megyn Kelly Show on Triumph, a SiriusXM channel featuring lots of hosts you may know and probably love. Great people like Dr. Laura, I'm back.

Nancy Grace, Dave Ramsey, and yours truly Megan Kelly. You can stream the Megan Kelly show on Sirius XM at home or anywhere you are. No car required. I do it all the time. I love the Sirius XM app. It has ad free music coverage of every major sport comedy talk podcast and more.

Subscribe now. Get your first three months for free. Go to SiriusXM.com slash MK show to subscribe and get three months free. That's SiriusXM.com slash MK show and get three months free. Offer details apply. So can I ask you, Kid Rock was seen drinking a Bud Light at an event recently, and we've been told Bud Light's reaching out to him as person number one to try to win him back over. Did you guys get into Bud Light at all? Yeah, and it's interesting.

I mean, I have mixed feelings. I mean, obviously, I don't like big companies in general. And I know some of the people who used to own the company, and they're great people, and they sold it to this foreign-owned conglomerate, which is obviously run by morons. And so you do want to see companies like that. And my list is very long. I could bore you all day with all the companies I would like to see really brought low and punished for what they've done to our society. But you also want to be alive to the possibility that your criticism is improving people, in other words.

So I've been brought low several times in my life. And every time it's made me a happier, better, more grounded person. And so maybe that's happening here. Look, I don't know. But I think it's pot. Look, if you spank one of your kids for lying or stealing or committing some moral crime and the kid stops lying or stealing or committing moral crimes, you count that a win, right? You don't keep spanking the kid. You're like, this is my job as a parent. I improved you through punishment.

And if that's what's happening with Bud Light, if they've, you know, woken up and realized, like, actually, our consumers don't want to be lectured about their kids' sexuality or whatever. They don't want to, like, repeat lies about science. And we're going to stop doing that. Then, I don't know, shouldn't we be happy about that? Well, I would accept that if we had had any kind of an apology from them, but we haven't. That's a fair point. The CEO needed to go. He needed to go out there and say, I hear you. This was some lunatic in the marketing department who completely misread our base, calling them too fratty, partnering with this controversial trans figure, and so on. And I think people would have been quick to forgive, but he hasn't. No, that's what you're saying is totally fair.

I agree with that. So they haven't said anything like that. They just acted like it didn't happen. Yeah. Yeah. And this is why you've got Michael Knowles calling them Transheiser Bush. Well, they I know this. They closed two facilities because of that boycott.

That's I mean, someone who works there told me that. So it had. Well, they're being punished, of course. Oh, they're being punished. The audience is punishing them. Then they should just do, why is that so hard? I mean, why is that hard? I know. How many times have you apologized in public? I've seen you do it. I mean, it actually is liberating to do that. Nothing makes you freer than a sincere apology, because then it's off you. You're unburdened by it. That's why people are wary that maybe they're not sorry. They're sorry that they got punished, but that maybe they would

do it again. And it's like what I'm feeling, because as you know, I'm very active on this issue, is they're afraid of the vicious trans lobby. Well, I want them to care about me and my area of the world, which is people who believe there are two genders, more than they carry about blowback from the Dylan Mulvaney's of the world. You know, it also is bad for the country, because if you allow lunatics to control your public conversation or your public policy, when we are, we do do that, then you empower the lunatics. If one of your kids says, I want this. No, and then punches you in the face, you can't let that stand.

You can't let the kid know that punching you in the face gives him a reward or else he'll keep punching you in the face. And so the trans people, not the trans people, but the trans activists, the professional trans people. They're the worst. And the many activists, the many rich people who pay their bills. I mean, these are the unhappiest, most destructive people on Earth. They hate our civilization and we should not empower them in any way. I'm not saying we should throw them

in prison, but we should say, I'm sorry. No, you have no control over our society at all. You're the last person who should because you're so obviously unbalanced. Go over there and go do your trans thing, but leave the rest of us alone. That's my personal view. And so if you let them control a multibillion dollar company, you're making things much worse. I totally agree with you. Yes. How about Chris Christie's answer to that question? I asked him the other night about why he's the only one up there who supports the possible sterilization and cutting off of healthy body parts on children, on minors. And he said, well, it's a parental rights issue. And he stood by that

on the national debate stage. Well, he's just, you know, like so many candidates, but more than most, Chris is just a pure tool of his donors. And it tells you who his donors are. I mean, they're, you know, he's taking money from the from the worst people, most destructive people in our society. I mean, I knew him in 2010, 2011, 2012 when he was thinking about running for president. What a talented guy he was. Really talented. He's wildly articulate, as you know. Very smart.

He's weird, but so are a lot of people. And I like Chris Christie, and I thought that he could have made a difference. He, at some point, made a turn where he's just a mouthpiece for really, really dark interests. And you hate to see a guy do that. Like, how does your wife respect you? How do your kids respect you? How do you sleep? Seriously, how do you sleep? It's not in other words, it's not just that Chris Christie's wrong or he's like wildly pro child castration. I doubt he is. He's being told to say that. And that's worse, much worse, in my opinion. And the trans, you know, lobby is backed by some very, very powerful money forces. I know that you've talked about this in

your show. We've talked about it on ours. Yeah. The Pritzkers, among others, who are like funneling these campaigns and these agendas in schools. That's right. And we just have to stand up because basically we're being told that we can't have our spaces anymore. We can't have our sports anymore by a bunch of biological men who are not well. And women and men, too, need to stand up against it. And maybe just because I'm middle-aged, but the first thing I think we're being told we can't have grandchildren. I mean, seriously. Which, trust me, at some point you want grandchildren. I mean, I'm at that stage.

So it's like, no, but that's the thing. That is encoded in us. You want to see your family continue beyond your death. You want your genes to march on. That's the most basic desire that people have. And the trans thing is a direct threat to that. And I just don't understand why people don't wake up to that. It's like, basically they're telling you that your family has to commit suicide.

That's really what it is. This whole thing, this anti-fertility thing, they're saying to the people at whom it's aimed, go kill yourself. Like a hundred years from now, there'll be no one who's related to you. And everybody from the beginning of time, since we lived in caves has wanted to see his or her family continue past his death. And that's now, I mean, that's in jeopardy for a lot of people. I don't think we get the stakes here at all. And so it's it's darker just than destroying individual children. That's dark enough. It's destroying an entire society. And we have to we have to really, I mean, I guess they're not shocking, but I don't know. This thing feels very much like it's over. We haven't had the votes yet, so it's not officially over. But Des Moines Register poll comes out.

Trump was at 43% in the Iowa October poll for Des Moines Registered. He's now at 50. He's gone up seven percentage points. Next closest is DeSantis at 19. Haley did not get benefited in this poll from the last debate. She's at 16. He's up 50.

His next closest challenger is DeSantis at 19. This, as a CNN poll comes out, showing a general election matchup between Trump and Biden in two of the states that Trump lost. Michigan, he lost by 10. I mean, he lost. That's that's a big margin. Sorry, he's up right now by 10. So but Michigan, he lost by a healthy margin. And and now he is up over Biden by 10 percentage points. Georgia, he lost to Biden, though he disputed it.

And he's up in Georgia by five percentage points. And then last but not least, there's a Wall Street Journal poll out. Trump v. Biden. Trump's up four percentage points over Biden in this one just released over the weekend. Back in April, Biden had been up three percentage points. So it's a seven point swing in favor of Donald Trump. And I'll give you one more thing. Listen to this.

Have Trump's policies helped or hurt you personally? This is in the Wall Street Journal poll. 49% say they helped me personally. Just 37% say they hurt me personally. So Trump's above water on that. Have Biden's policies helped or hurt you personally? Helped, 23%. Hurt, 53%. My God.

I mean, that's it. Like that's, I don't see how Biden overcomes those numbers. I don't think he does. And I think he'll be swapped out. I mean, Joe Biden only exists because he's useful to the Democratic Party in the moment he's not. The Democratic Party, not just the Democratic Party, but the corporate business community, Jamie Dimon, everyone, you know, BlackRock. I mean, sort of

everyone with power in our society has decided now for six or seven years that the one thing they can't handle open borders, wars, inflation, opioid deaths, it's all fine. One thing that's not fine. The thing that's not fine is having Donald Trump become president again. And at the same time, they've been lecturing us for three or four years now about the sacred importance of democracy. We're fighting war in Eastern Europe on its behalf. So you can't square that circle. You can't say we're for democracy, but Trump isn't allowed to be the president if the people want him. So I just think, I mean, we're moving towards something very, very intense because, you know, the people who organize their lives around hating Trump don't represent, you know, maybe more than 20 percent of the population.

Maybe half the country doesn't like him, but only 20 percent wake up in the middle of the night dreaming about killing him. But that 20 percent has all the power. So this is a test, literally a test of democracy. If the majority of people want Trump and as of today, then polls you read, they do. Do the people who have all the power stand aside and allow that to happen? And I just don't think they will because I don't think they believe in democracy. I don't think they care about the country. I don't think its systems are meaningful to them. I think they'll do whatever it takes to prevent that from happening. So that's a crisis. We're describing a crisis. Yeah. This is one of the reasons why I said if if this judge Chutkin

in D.C., this federal judge, because we assume Trump's going to get convicted in that case. I mean, the smart bet would be this D.C. jury convicts him because they hate him politically. Ninety two percent voted for Joe Biden and she hates him. Um, that if they, if she puts him in jail pending appeal before the election, the country's going to burn. And then all this blowback, you know, all these people say, oh my God, she's calling for violence. I'm not calling for violence, but there is no way the Trump base is not going to be beside itself with anger at that level of deprivation of being able to simply vote for the candidate of choice. That's what's being taken away here. To your point.

Well, yeah. And, you know, speaking of violence, that's what you're going to get. And speaking as someone who detests violence and I've seen war. That's why I detest violence. So I spent a lot of my career trying to argue against more wars because I think violence is the worst thing. But I'm just being honest here. If you leave people no alternative, then what do you think is going to happen? I mean, the whole point of electoral democracy is that it's a pressure relief valve that takes people who are very frustrated with the way things

are going and gives them a way to express themselves, have their desires heard, and ultimately their will done to be represented in a peaceful way. And if you take that away, if you haven't staged an unfair election, which 2020 was, if you suppress information that voters need to make an informed decision, you're rigging the election. And they did that. So if you keep doing that and people are like, wait, I have no economic power, you've devalued my currency. So it's like eleven dollars for a dozen eggs and my vote doesn't matter anymore. Well, then what do I have? Like what power do I have? And, you know, you're going to get violence if you keep the shit up. And that's just the truth. And I am very upset about that. I don't want that to happen.

I think the counter violence will be much more extreme than the violence. But any rational person can see what's coming. So they have to stop this. The charges against Trump are not real. They're not even for serious crimes. I was told Trump was like a murderer and had killed a bunch of people in New Jersey or something. He didn't even cheat on his taxes. And they're treating him like a felon at the same time. Like they protect, you know, Epstein until they have to murder him in his cell. It's like it's insane. And it's all on public display. Everybody knows what's going on. So I do think the people in charge, the people who are pulling the strings on Tanya Chutkin or whatever these ridiculous front people they hire, those people need to really think

this through a little bit. You're about to wreck the country. Don't do this, please. Yeah. And yet, day after day, we continue to get more ridiculous think pieces like the one I mentioned at Axios, which is very worried about the white men in Trump's imaginary second cabinet that are sounding the alarm as follows. One of the terrible things we're going to see under a second Trump term, they want to target and jail their critics.

Hello. Hundreds of people have gone to jail for criticizing Biden in the last election. Be honest. Not to mention what they're doing to Donald Trump in four different courtrooms, criminal courtrooms, forget the civil, right now. The rest of the list is kind of funny, Tucker. This is what Axios wants us to worry about. They're also threatening in a second Trump administration to deport undocumented immigrants. Hello? support undocumented immigrants. Hello. To unleash the military to target drug cartels in Mexico

or possibly crack down on criminals or protesters at home. I laugh. I'm like, this is are they trying to drive GOP turnout here? Because this is this is not going to have the effect they intend. You know, you do. I mean, I do think that in five years we won't have outlets like Axios or NBC News. I mean, I do think the whole edifice is crumbling. But in the meantime, you would like to get, say, 300 Haitian immigrants and move them by force into the home of that reporter or anybody who doubts the severity of what it means to live in a country with no borders. Like they're immune from the effects of these insane country destroying policies.

And so they don't care. But it would be nice to sort of make it a little more personal for them. It's like, oh, you care so much about refugees. Here's three dozen. You're now responsible for them. No, they're not getting welfare. You're paying for them.

How's that? You educate their kids. You know, you share a bathroom. Like I just, I'm totally over this. This is the destruction of our country. We were watching it in real time. I was born here. I have no other passport.

I'm not going anywhere else. I'm going to have to live with this and so are my children and God willing, my grandchildren. And it's being abetted by the news media. They're not calling the shots, but they're defending them and encouraging them. And I really do hope that they feel the sting of the things they're defending at some point, that it's not just working class whites in Southern Ohio or Vermont who are having to live with this crap. You know what I mean? It really should come to Logan Circle very soon. And this is what leads me to Israel, because there was news about some of the positions you took or people thought you took on Israel. They

watched this interview you did with Candace. And my take on what I heard you say was saying, I feel very bad for the Israelis, but we also have a lot of problems here at home. And I haven't seen this kind of emotionality over it was, and I said this to the audience that I, I feel like you're becoming almost maybe not quite as much as I am on the trans thing, but almost a single issue voter. You've been jumping up and down, trying to set yourself on fire over the Southern border for years, and it's only getting worse. And you're right. No one is shedding a tear over the 100,000 dead from fentanyl other than the immediate family members. And, you know, it's only right now that we see an argument over funding in Ukraine happening at the moment that we've seen Republicans

even really take a strong stand on it. But what's your take on that? That whole, you know, people think, oh, is he not on Israel's side? Why is he saying things that don't sound tough on Israel? I mean, it was, yeah, it just kind of had to wait for it to pass. I, I mean, honestly, I didn't, you know, my gut reaction to what happened on October 7th was horror, you know, people were murdered and particularly for the kids at the music festival, really, or the music festival. And someone comes and shoots you? I mean, it's just awful. And I really felt for the families and still do. So I didn't mean to minimize that, obviously, and I said so. But I was just amazed that all this... So there's that, okay? But ultimately, that's a border story. People came into the sovereign territory of Israel and killed Israelis. People came into the sovereign territory of Ukraine and killed Ukrainians. I get it. I'm against both of those things.

People are coming to the sovereign territory of our country and killing us. And no one says a word. And you sort of wonder why. And in some sense, it's like people are displacing their frustrations about what's happening here onto other countries. So I know really good people, for example, who are like single issue Ukraine voters. They're Americans, they've never been to Ukraine, they don't speak Ukrainian, they don't even, they're not exactly sure where it is. So I'm not attacking them, but like, what is that? It's because they can't say out loud how they feel about their own country. And so they sort of, again, they just place it onto a foreign tableau and it becomes this sort of morality tale far away and they don't have to understand the nuances at all. And I get all that. I've seen it a lot. I participated in it myself. But I just my only job, this is how I feel, is just to remind people, yeah, I get it. Everyone has a view on that. You know, I'm not judging anyone. And I certainly feel terrible for the families of those who are murdered. But we have a country here, too. And I think it's fair to ask our leaders to pay some attention to our country and its borders

since we've spent hundreds of billions of dollars defending other people's borders. What about ours? I don't think that's a crazy thing to say. I don't think it's anti-Israel. Like that's nuts. You know, I don't think I've ever said a single anti-Israel thing in my life.

I took my family there on vacation. I'm not even gonna defend myself. It's too dumb. It's fair for Americans to ask, what about our country? And that's all I was saying. And I'll continue to say that. And I also say that to people like Ackman, who I think is doing a really good thing, hassling the Ivies over their insane DEI policies. And good for Bill Ackman, whom I know. But I also have to ask, and I tried to do it, maybe not very particularly. It's like, they've been attacking people on the basis of ethnicity for decades. You were funding it. Did you not notice that?

So maybe they're- Yeah, where were you when we needed you 10 years ago? Honestly, I'm totally opposed to attacking anybody on the basis of any immutable characteristic. You'll never hear me do it in public or private. And you're paying for this shit. And so it's, I understand. And by the way, I'm on your side and I like what Ackman's doing. I'm not attacking Ackman, but I do think it's fair to ask like, okay, these are universal principles. They apply not just to people you have affection for, but to my children too. They apply to all human beings, all created by God, but they only apply to groups that

you support. Like how did that? No, that's not how it works here in this country. Let me just remind you, this country was built on universal principles that apply to all people, all people, all created by God. So it's not fair to be like, well, you can't hassle that group. No, no, you can't hassle any group. The same rules apply to every group. That's why this is a different country. And they don't seem, if you say that out loud, you're like, how dare you? No, I dare say that because I'm an American. My ancestors have been here for hundreds of years. This is the

country that we built, a country of universal principles. We haven't always lived up to them, but we certainly tried. And that attitude is destroying the principles of the country that I grew up in. And I just, I'm just not going to sit silent as it happens. Sorry. That's what was so offensive about those university presidents trying to lie to us and tell us that they stand for free speech and always have. And they're just following through with a long standing policy in not cracking down on these, you know, students for justice in Palestine protesters. We all knew it was a lie. Those of us who have been paying any attention to the news for the past 10, 15 years

know it's a lie. They couldn't care less about free speech if you're ripping on white people, if you're ripping on men, if you're ripping on any group other than their faves, right? Any other than their faves. And so that's the absurdity. That's why I love to see McGill go down at UPenn. I'm thrilled she's gone. I think Claudine Gay is going to go because she's on the hot seat too. And now there's a plagiarism scandal outlined by Chris Rousseau. very brilliant. Big scholar, never written a book. Don't you love that she stole from Carol Swain too? Everybody loves Carol Swain, including Claudine Gay. But what's crazy is that I'm a middle-brow talk show host, and I've written a number of books and I wrote them myself. And that's a basic prerequisite.

And she's a scholar running the most prestigious research university in the world. And she's literally never written a single book. How does she get that job? Maybe we should just begin to put some standards. And if you're not allowed to hassle people for their religion or ethnicity, you're not allowed to hassle anybody for his or her religion or ethnicity. Try to be an evangelical Christian leading a march for traditional marriage. Try to be, and I'll say something unpopular, try to be a Scientologist leading a march against psychiatric medication, which is what Scientologists believe. That's a totally fair position. I may or may not agree. It doesn't matter. They have a right to have that view. They'd be shut down in a second and no one would defend either one of those. So I'm just sick of it. I'm sick of it. And the idea of like, whoa, whoa, we need special protection. No, no special protections for anybody. If you're an American citizen, same protections that every other American citizen has. And that's why this is a great country. It's the only reason it's

a great country, actually. It's the only reason you take that away and we're done. But here's the annoying thing. So Claudine Gay, let's say she goes from Harvard and McGill's gone from Penn and maybe we'll get the Stanford person and maybe we'll get some other university. We'll see. Like it's to your point, it's so baked in this DEI programming at these universities at every level, up and down the faculty. They're all leftists who love this ideology. Like, does it do anything? Are they going to replace them with a Tucker Carlson? I don't think so. So what good does it do, if any? companies, free inquiry, honesty, rigor, intelligence. You couldn't get into Harvard even four generations ago, right? But a totally different country. You still couldn't get into

Harvard unless you're really smart. If you were in the Andover class of 1960, where the whole class went to Ivy League, you still didn't go to Harvard unless you were in the top quarter for IQ in your class, because it's for smart people. That's what it is. And so they've totally thrown that away. So it's like, what's the point of having Harvard? Well, because they have massive funding from gullible alumni, from Jeffrey Epstein and from the U.S. government, but they don't really have anything else. So if you want to fix it, you need to say, here are the principles, honesty, scholarship, free inquiry, period. We're going to follow this to its logical conclusion. If you disagree, you're allowed to say so. When you take those things away, it's not really a university,

actually. It hasn't been for a long time. It's a hedge fund with buildings attached. The whole thing is fake. So you can't, it doesn't matter. The personnel are even irrelevant. What's relevant is fealty to the principles that made it an impressive place in the first place. And that's true, by the way, for every institution. That's true for American Airlines. Why would you fly in their planes if they're letting people become pilots who can't really fly or changing the standard for air traffic controllers? Why would you live in this country if the justice system doesn't work? I'd rather live in Italy. They've had a bad justice system for 2000 years, but at least I know it. Do you know, at least they have good barada. Like we're wrecking

the only things that make this a good country. And those are the universal principles, not our military. The right fetishizes the military. Oh, the military. Military can be good. It can also be a force for evil. I think it is one now. It's good to the extent that it represents the American ideals. It's just an instrument. It's just a tool. But the ideals give it the direction. And we're giving those up. And nobody is saying anything about it. And I hear all these people on the right like, well, we need to protect this or that group.

No, no, no. We need to protect the country by protecting all Americans. That's the answer. And just to be clear, when you say you think the military is a force for evil right now, you don't mean the rank and file. You mean the leadership? Needless right now, you don't mean the rank and file. You mean the leadership? Needless to say, I don't. And the military is the saddest of all examples, because the military is the best people in the world led by some of the worst people in the

world. And I was with an NCO, a ranking NCO this weekend at a wedding who was telling me, it just makes you so sad. I mean, these are people who are literally risking their lives for the country, and they're led by low IQ politicians at the Pentagon. It's so upsetting. It's so, so upsetting. No, I'm merely saying the military, like any institution, is as good as its principles. And that's kind of the whole story. I mean, you have a military that dies with guns. And what is it doing with those guns? Is it upholding American values or is it not? Or is it an instrument of politicians to accrue more power and wealth or live out some bizarre Freudian fantasy?

Or whatever. Or is it what it was when I was a child, which is pretty much what you thought? It's the organization that defends our shores from foreign invaders like that's worth having having a military that, you know. Yeah, I was going to say we were looking at reasons for, you know, low military enrollment in advance of that debate and the top two you can understand and they've been there for a long time, but I guarantee you they're higher right now for a certain reason. The top two reasons people don't want to sign up are death, fear of death and fear of trauma. I get it. But and then you can go down the list. But to me, those two numbers are even more relevant right now under a president who presided over this

disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan, who got another 13 service personnel killed, who then bragged about the withdrawal like it was perfect. I actually trying to tell us that it was absolutely stellar, was outstanding. He has no regrets. Why would you go sign up and fight for that guy's military and then get there and be berated over race and gender?

And, you know, the woman next to you is there because her mothers are both lesbians and not because she actually, like none of that makes sense. And I realize wokeism is down on the list. I read that too. But my take on it is similar to yours,

which is if we have better leaders in there, people for whom they want to fight, people who they would trust. I think enrollment would be less of a problem. Well, of course, in the first answer tells you everything. They're afraid to die. Well, actually, in their history is the story of this. People are absolutely happy to die on behalf of things that are worth dying for. Death is not the scariest thing.

It's not even close to the scariest thing. Slavery is the scariest thing. Living in perpetual humiliation when you're not fully human, that's the scariest thing. But if you give people the opportunity to die for, say, their children or their grandchildren or their nation to which they're legitimately connected, they will happily do it. And they have since the beginning of history. And so people who think they're doing the right thing, who think that they are defending a principle, are not afraid to die. I'm not afraid to die. I don't want to,

but I'm certainly not worried about it at all because I think it's worth saying what you think. And if that gets you taken out, okay, but it doesn't make it any less worth it. And so the point is that the military is not being used for noble ends. If the military were being used to defend our nation, if it were keeping the drug cartels out of Texas and saving people from dying of drug ODs, I don't think people would be

afraid to die for that. I certainly wouldn't. And a lot of people wouldn't. You would have no enlistment problems. But if they're telling us we're going to go defend the sacred democracy of Ukraine, which doesn't even have elections, are you joking? I mean, it's not a democracy. It's not sacred. This is a total scam. Everyone knows it. And I'm not going to die for that. And I'm not going to encourage my son or daughter to die for that. And that's what you're seeing right there is that it's being misused. A great thing

is being misused. And there's nothing uglier than that. Misusing something great. I mean, it's like destroying your Ferrari parallel parking. It's like, no, you know, it's it's a desecration, I think. What what about Ukraine? Because the news today is Zelensky is going to be at the White House tomorrow, Tuesday. His visit will underscore the United States is unshakable commitment to supporting the people of Ukraine as they defend themselves against Russia's brutal invasion. That is from world spokesperson KJP, Karine Jean-Pierre. I will miss her if Biden loses, if he loses. Let's not lie. She's the best thing that ever happened to the Biden administration or to us. In any event, right now, the Republicans are finally trying to withhold funding on this remaining $60 billion.

We've already spent tens of billions of dollars on them. But they're trying to hold the line on this last $60 saying, do something resembling anything at the southern border. As I read their proposals, I'm going to be honest, I'm not that impressed by what they're trying to hijack this negotiation over. But at least they're trying to hijack this negotiation over. But at least they're trying. The one that made sense, which Trump had in place out of the list, was you can't seek asylum in the United States if you already passed through Mexico to come to us. If you're really fleeing war and death, Mexico is good enough. You stop there.

You don't keep going up to the United States. Trump had that in place, and that's one of the things. But what do you make of what they're doing right now in the Republican Senate? I mean, I think it's a joke. I mean, again, it needs to start with the principle that not one more dollar, not simply for Ukraine, but for any country on the globe to secure its border or for anything related to border security until we know the name, identity of every single person that comes over and we've asked them to come. And there's a process. No more, not a single more asylum seeker in this country. They've done an end run around the federal law by calling everyone

an asylum seeker. And we've imported tens of millions of young men without jobs, in many cases without the English language, no means of support into our country, and they will never leave. And so what we now know is that this country will be completely different in 10 years. And 30 years from now, it'll be unrecognizable. This is all happening with the acquiescence of Republican leaders in Washington that control the House of Representatives. And I think the shame that Mike Johnson should feel allowing any of this, he immediately, when he became, and he's a very nice man, I'm not attacking him personally, but what he's done is shameful and he should be ashamed of himself and what he's done to the country that I was born in.

The first thing he said, we're going to send more money to foreign countries. That was his first priority. Send more money to foreign countries to secure their borders. I think, you know, saying even thinking a thought like that disqualifies you from leadership in the United States immediately. And of course, Republicans are just such good little soldiers like, oh, well, maybe he's OK. It's not OK. It's please leave the job and put someone in there who cares about the United States. And then we can have a rational conversation about this, but not one more dollar. And that's I mean, I could talk for hours, but just last sentence that war has hurt this country in ways that most Americans have no full appreciation of.

The international banking system changed forever. And what that war did is create a massive block against us internationally with the largest countries in the world with their own financial systems who are keen to get away from the U.S. dollar. So we just screwed ourselves in ways that our grandchildren are going to have to deal with. And, you know, I don't know why Mike Johnson and all the other geniuses in the Republican Party don't get that. Maybe they can't read.

But it's very obvious to anyone who pays attention. And so I'm really shocked by the response from Republicans. What you what you hear over and over from Nikki Haley and others defending the, you know, the funding of what's happening in Ukraine is if we don't, then Putin's going to expand. He's going to hit the Baltics. He's going to hit Georgia. He's going to hit a NATO state that we then have to go in and defend. The whole NATO is so it's OK. I would say just in one sentence, sum up the purpose of NATO post-Soviet Union. And of course, nobody can. NATO is a standing army without a purpose.

OK, it was created at the end of the Second World War, 46 or 47, 46, I think, to keep the Soviets in place. Like, no, you can't roll across the border into West Germany and Poland. Well, they, of course, had Poland, but that threat ended in August of 1991. And so, OK, worst case scenario, Putin takes Belarus or exerts more influence in Georgia. OK, I mean, why should I care exactly? Is there a good reason that I should care? I mean, large countries exert. I mean, I don't know. Am I supposed to be, I guess I hope he doesn't

if the Georgians and the Belorussians don't want him to, but is that a good reason to send my kid to go die? It's not. And so like, just tell me, why should that keep me up at night exactly? Because then what next? He's going to move into Poland. Or no, he's not going to move into Poland.

They can't afford it. This whole conversation is so stupid and nobody in D.C. can kind of like rise above it long enough to see its outlines and just how it's a joke. And historians will rate this as one of the dumbest conversations adults have ever had with one another in public. Putin, not this conversation that you and I are having. The one that's ongoing in Washington and Nikki Haley will sort of arch her eyebrow and be like, well, he could take Belarus. OK, you know, good luck to the Belarusians. I hope he doesn't. I guess maybe they want him. They probably do, actually. But whatever. You know, I believe in sovereign countries. But why is that something that I should, I'm an American citizen, okay?

My country is falling apart. Why should I stay up late worrying about this? I don't understand. I'm staying up literally late worried about El Paso. That's a legit concern for me as an American. Nikki Haley doesn't care at all about El Paso. Why is that? I mean, that's a fair, that's, next time I see her, I plan to ask her that question, which is more important to you, Latvia?

Do you know what I mean? Or McAllen? McAllen's more important. Just spoiler alert. Yeah, it's so fascinating talking to you, Tucker. I love how you've thought these issues through this one in particular. I know near and dear to you. I've got to ask you, I'd be remiss about Joe Biden because we spent some time on Trump. We spent a little time in the GOP primary. I mean, there's a report every day about further deterioration in his mental well-being and his mental acuity. You know, he I've mentioned this a couple of times, but he was at the Kennedy Center honors. Those are simple. That's an easy one. You're not talking about world politics. He couldn't get Dionne Warwick out. He thought it was Diane Warwick. Now he grew up with her and that's his era. He couldn't get Barry Gibb out. He called him Billy over and over. There were multiple mistakes. He thinks the dead people are alive, and he thinks the alive people are dead. And he's falling, and he's tripping,

and he can't seem to do it. That's the truth. He doesn't seem capable of doing it right now. And he wants us to give him another four years of doing it, and he still has another year on this term. So realistically, when you see all that, and then you see these polls, Trump beating Biden 10 points in Michigan. What are the Democrats going to do in your view? Yeah, I'm just filled with hostility, not toward Biden, who I basically feel sorry for. But like, where's the media? I mean, if this were 1998 and like the biggest news was, you know, oral sex with an intern, you know, you'd be like,

okay, you've got a non-compass menace president. We'll probably be fine. The world, I just can't say this enough. Having spent a lot of time traveling recently, the world is up for grabs and to have a president who's so obviously not there, who really is Woodrow Wilson post-stroke like, and no one mentions it. And we're still talking about Trump. It's like they take him out. Of course, they take him out. There's literally no way he in his current form can run. And the problem is the vice president. And they're reaping, I would say, you know, the reward of affirmative action, which is like it's it's all great as long as this is your head of HR or something. But the second incompetent people become air traffic controllers, heart surgeons, and vice presidents, then your country collapses. And so you have this person who's despised by everybody.

Her own husband kissed her with a mask on. So clearly, he's got my view on her. He's not a fan. What do you do with with Carmela Harris? And I really don't know the answer. That's your racism. Gavin Newsom says that's racist. That's what he told Rhonda Sand.

You mispronounced Carmela Harris's name. You're a racist. She can't pronounce her own name. We we have. No, I've been called a racist over mispronouncing her fake name. But we also have Ferranti pronouncing her own first name, her own first name two different ways. So, like, what does that reveal? Like, if you can't pronounce your own first name consistently, who are you?

You know what I mean? At that point, we need a blood test. Are you fully human? Like, what is that? I can defend that. Half the time I say Megan, the other half I say kind of Megan. I don't know. For some of us, it can be confusing. I'm not sure.

Are you serious? Yes. Swear to God. So funny. My family gets upset if I say anything other than Megan. Hard A. But like Megan is too hard the other way for me. So I'm kind of in between. I hate to put myself in her camp, but I'm also a little confused about my name. I may call myself Tooker from now on. I don't know. I'm not vice president and not going. You'd be you'd be great. But can I just say I feel I feel for actually, honestly, I'm trying to be empathetic. I kind of feel for Harris because she's she's rejected. She's been rejected. I mean, to the extent she cares,

I think she does care. You can feel the insecurity coming off her. I think she does care that she's popular. And I feel for the Democratic Party, which thought it'd be like awesome to get a woman you could claim was both African-American. She's not. Her father's foreign born and South Asian. She is. Her mom's Indian. And she's like this diversity hire for everybody. And she's like the perfect candidate for the emerging Democratic coalition. And like they overthought this stuff. Just get someone good. That's it.

But they didn't. And now they're looking at the consequences. Like, what do you do? Who's going to tell Carmela that she can't be president? I mean, how would you like to be in charge of that? And what do they give her? No, especially their base, like the one constituency they still have ready to vote for Joe Biden is black women.

So good luck with that situation. Getting rid of the black woman vice president. I mean, that's what Sonny Hostin over on The View was saying. You can't do it. We're not interchangeable. That's going to be the voice of the very angry Democrats if they try to sub her out. So they're in quite a pickle. But can they possibly go to November of 24 with Joe Biden?

I honestly don't think they can. And if they attempt it, then you'll know it's just flat out rigged election, like flat out. If if they run with Biden, then you'll know they have other assurances, you know, beyond the candidate that they're going to win. And I don't I do think that Republicans in Washington are very anxious to lose. The last thing they want is Trump. He'll call them out. He's a much bigger threat to them than Biden. They can raise money off Biden and Biden's socialism or their stupid Reagan era talking points. And so they don't, I mean, they are honestly, do you think Mitch McConnell would rather have Joe Biden or Donald Trump become the next president? It's not even close. He's rooting for Joe Biden. They're the same age for one thing.

So you set up a very weird dynamic. And I just honestly, once again, can't see how this is resolved between now and November, next November. And I just would be amazed if we were having a conversation like this a year from now, and we look back and we don't decide, wow, that was a totally different country. Like so much has changed. I hope that's not true. I

don't like, but I think that's very likely to be true. I want to end on you. If we can talk about you, I know you don't want to talk about yourself, but we're going to do it. Um, you love the, you love fishing. You love shooting the little birds, just like Doug Brunt does you. It is so great. By the way, his new book, I'm sorry to be, and I'm not commercially minded, so this is sincere. My wife read it and just absolutely,

what a, I haven't read it yet. It's on my bed stand, but what a great book for real. Oh, thank you. Wait, my wife got that book. It's a serious case of Rudolph Diesel, if you're looking for it. She didn't even look at the author.

She got that book because a friend recommended it to her. She didn't realize it was Doug. But anyway, great book. Oh, that's so nice. Yes. Well, I mean, perhaps he was inspired by all the shooting of the little innocent birdies. The way you know, but what else?

Like, what's your life like these days? You're very busy. Seven countries over the summer sounds unbelievable. I see you posting these interviews with these world leaders. You already did the guy in Argentina pre pre wins. You got to go back there and do Malay is how you pronounce it again. Yeah. Malay. Yeah. Yeah. We want to know more about him. The first thing I thought was Tucker's going back there. But who like what else? Tell me what your life is like now. Is it is it great? My life is I mean, it's been great for a long time. Um, yeah, I mean, I think if you saw how

we actually lived, you'd be a little surprised because it's like pretty low key to put it mildly. Um, so yeah, I mean, I've been with my wife for 40 years this year. And, uh, and so since 1984, September of 84, so a little under 40, but anyway. So in our heads, it's like, I've been with the same person this whole time. It kind of feels a little bit like 1984 in our house. So it's, we believe in quiet and reading. We have a bunch of dogs. I bird dogs. And that's why I hunt so much because my dogs demand it, but I love watching my dogs work. And we live in rural places and, you know, have always people staying at our house and having dinner at our house. You know, a lot of stuff at home and, you know, very quiet, very, very quiet and happy life.

I hate to say that. I mean, we don't know strippers, no cocaine, no famous people like we have the most. We have the calmest life of anyone I know. And I really like that. And we've always lived like that, honestly. So yeah, I like, by the way, the world is so nuts that you need to, in your private spheres, have peace because otherwise you can't, you just can't function. If I had to go home to a chaotic world, I'm going to go home to a world with no TV and no yelling. No one ever raises a voice and just happy, sober.

You know, I don't know. It sounds boring. Maybe it is boring, but we really enjoy it. Really enjoy it a lot. And how's Susie doing with your whole transition out of Fox and into independent media now? Well, she's great. I mean, she was, you know, she's not a liberal, I would say, to put it mildly. So but she's not political at all.

She just like, in her mind, everything is either like a threat to the family, not just ours, but the family as an institution or it's not. Like that's, that's the lens through which she sees things. And so she's, you know, I think she's totally supportive. I know she is because we talk all the time because all four kids are gone. So I spend a lot of time with her and we talk things through a lot. But no, I think she's completely happy. I mean, as long as, you know, we don't have to live in a city or deal with false people, she's like really, really happy, really happy. Actually, I would say happiest woman I know.

It must be, it must be so much easier to do the travel and take on this new project. I mean, I'm thinking about my life right now. My kids are 10, 12, and 14. Right? You can't. But we're almost the same age. You just had your kids a lot earlier. You met your wife earlier than I met Doug.

And I would tell you, there is a reason God cuts you off biologically from having the children when you're around 42. Because I'm tired. I'm so tired. And it's a nightmare. And it's lonely. I mean, maybe this is too personal, but one, maybe it was, I've got one of my producers looking at me and I can't remember what it was, but it's like maybe, oh, it was when our final child went off to boarding school. So it was like maybe five or six years ago. I've been on the road my whole

life, my whole marriage. And I said to my wife, I'd really like it if you would come with me. And of course she didn't really want to, but she got into it. So I'll actually, if I go for more than three days, I bring her with me. She always enjoys it. And that's such a massive upgrade. If you're traveling by yourself, it's just depressing. It's totally depressing. So that's Justin Wells. You're you're a brilliant producer told me we saw each other, uh, when we all met up in Florida over the summer. And he said, if Tucker's without Susie for three days, we know what to do. We've got to get Susie to Tucker. He gets grumpy, which is such a nice change.

I mean, that's why I think wives everywhere are delighted to hear this about you. And having, I mean, I agree. There's not going to be a scandal about Tucker's personal life, much as they would love to find one. You're a decent person. You're a good man.

And I love talking to you. And I'm so happy you're doing this. So happy you're out. You're free. You're independent. Free, literally free, if you want to listen to the Tucker Carlson podcast or for a small fee, you can get his subscription content to Tucker Carlson dot com. All the best to you, my friend. Thanks for being here. I'm grateful. Thank you, Megan. Congrats on that debate. It was awesome. Thank you very much. Thanks to Tucker and his team. And I think to

all of you, I'd love to hear what you thought about that interview, about the debate, about where this GOP primary is going, given the latest polls, my goodness. And maybe by then we'll have an update on Claudine Gay. It's mildly interesting, isn't it? I mean, even though it's probably going to be sort of a similar person who goes in, so mildly interesting. Tomorrow, Andrew Klavan, and we'll get to it. Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.