The Megyn Kelly Show - Tucker Carlson on Interviewing Fuentes, America First, and Demons and UFOs - "Megyn Kelly Live" From New York | Ep. 1188

Episode Date: November 6, 2025

Megyn Kelly begins the "Megyn Kelly Live" show in White Plains, NY by taking audience questions about staying positive after terrible election results, being a gay conservative, "platforming" vs. interviewing, dealing with grief after losing a child, and more. Then Tucker Carlson joins to discuss his decision to interview Nick Fuentes, why he speaks with controversial figures to understand their thinking, what he wanted to convey to Fuentes, what he thought of him after, why he disagrees with parts of Trump’s first-term foreign policy, what it means to be "America First," why questioning foreign lobbying doesn't mean someone is an antisemite, whether he and Shapiro can "find your way to detente," his unexpected journey into Bible reading after a supernatural experience, his story of a demonic attack that left physical marks, what he thinks UFOs and UAPs really are, leaving legacy media for independent media, and more.  Riverbend Ranch: Visit https://riverbendranch.com/ | Use promo code MEGYN for $20 off your first order. Landman on Paramount+: Don’t miss the hit series everyone is talking about - Landman. New Season streaming November 16th, only on Paramount+Firecracker Farm: Visit https://firecracker.FARM & enter code MK at checkout for a special discount!Chapter: For Free and unbiased Medicare help dial 27-MEDICARE (276-334-2273) or go to https://askchapter.org/kellyDisclaimer: Chapter and its affiliates are not connected with or endorsed by any government entity or the federal Medicare program. Chapter Advisory, LLC represents Medicare Advantage HMO, PPO, and PFFS organizations and standalone prescription drug plans that have a Medicare contract. Enrollment depends on the plan’s contract renewal. While we have a database of every Medicare plan nationwide and can help you to search among all plans, we have contracts with many but not all plans. As a result, we do not offer every plan available in your area. Currently we represent 50 organizations which offer 18,160 products nationwide. We search and recommend all plans, even those we don't directly offer. You can contact a licensed Chapter agent to find out the number of products available in your specific area. Please contact Medicare.gov, 1-800-Medicare, or your local State Health Insurance Program (SHIP) to get information on all your options.  Follow The Megyn Kelly Show on all social platforms:YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/MegynKellyTwitter: http://Twitter.com/MegynKellyShowInstagram: http://Instagram.com/MegynKellyShowFacebook: http://Facebook.com/MegynKellyShow Find out more information at:https://www.devilmaycaremedia.com/megynkellyshow Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Welcome to the Megan Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East. Oh, it's so great to be here so close to home. God's bless, white planes. Yes. Know it and love it well. Been to the mall many times. Many times. I am a lifelong New Yorker, as you may know, born and raised my whole life in the state of New York, upstate New York, and then down in. in New York City. Yeah, Bethlehem, right? Hometown. And it's so exciting to be back home with you. This one's like special to me because I see so many familiar faces who I live with and dine with and spend

my life with and my kids too. So thank you. Thank you for showing up. This one's special to me. I wish we had some better news to discuss. My God, what a shit show.

All right, of all the ones who were elected, Jay Jones, really? Can you believe? Like, that's the one that hurts the most. I mean, obviously, Zora'Am Dami is an extremely controversial, leftist, communist, Islamists. There are a long list of things that are wrong with him. But who in, like, Virginia, which not so long ago was kind of red? I mean, when I first got to Fox, it was red back in 2004 and a little while thereafter that would elect a man who gets off on fantasizing about murdering Republicans and their kids. Like, what does it say about us? Truly, how do we break bread with those people? Like the ones who said, yeah, he's for me. He didn't say he's going to kill Democrats. Truly, like, who? I believe

fully in my heart that the Republicans would not vote for such a person. If they had a Republican on the ticket who had said those things, yes, I think Republicans would have held the line against a person like that. I mean, it's like one thing to have a controversy, to say something dumb that's controversial. This is in a field of its own. I want them dead, and I want their children dead. I was saying this on the show today.

I don't even, like, I don't know how to explain that to my own children. Like how a state, like Virginia, elected that man as their top law enforcement officer. It's beyond. But look, the problems are so much deeper than Jay Jones, right? The Republicans have got to learn to win without dad. Right? You're not going to have Trump on the ticket ever again. I know what Steve Bannon says. Trust me. Trump's not going to be on the ticket ever again. There's the whole matter of the Constitution.

He's going to be around. He's going to be very influential. You know, he's got the big gorilla claw that he's going to use to boost or not boost certain people. But these Republicans, I mean, honestly, I hate to burst your bubble, but don't get too excited about them. Truly. Like, do you really believe the Republican Party knows exactly how to win without Trump? No, me neither. It's depressing. So the only silver lining that I see coming out of last night, well, there are two. There is the fact that we will have Zoramam Dani to kick around for four years as the poster boy for Democrats. That's going to be very useful. And I will tell you this, having seen a bunch of Republicans around the administration and, you know, adjacent to and in over the past month or two, many of them were excited about him winning. Like, they don't really love New York, the way we all love New York, being close to New York. and they just see this as such a political win for Republicans having this guy as the poster child. It was good enough having the squad for as long as we've had it.

But this is next level. He's going full communist, and he's praising the crazy Islamist mosque Imam who celebrated the World Trade Center bombing in 93? Like, this is mana from heaven for Republicans. So that's one of the silver linings. But the second silver lining, as I see it, is we've got a year until the midterms.

so the Republicans have time to get their shit together and realize they need a new game plan for how to win Scott Pressler cannot do it all on his own God bless Scott Presler he's here tonight rock star American Patriot yes right there we love you we don't deserve you Scott Presler is to purple states what Ronan Farrow was to

Me Too type men. You see him move in on your territory and you're like, oh god this isn't going to end well for me. He did it in Pennsylvania and he nearly did it in New Jersey. What's up? What's our next state, Scott? Where are we going next? California, yes. California. Yes. Let's do California. Yes. Let's do California, those poor souls out there, almost 40% of the state Republicans are in California, 37 and change, and they're about to have no representatives. I mean, absolutely none. And then another, an additional five, I mean, they already have none, but they're about to have an additional five who are Dems who go out and try to report to represent them. You have absolutely, you know how Washington, D.C. has those license plates represent or taxation without representation because they don't actually have actual lawmakers representing them. California needs that. The California Republicans genuinely have taxation without representation. there. It's really sad. Yet another thing that we need to think about rectifying. So look, we've got Zora Mondani to push around

for four years. He's going to ruin New York. It's quite a high cost to pay. But let's be honest, Bill de Blasio already ruined it. The people in this room know. It used to be a great town. Now it's one big city bank in CVS. So he's going to take it from bad

to worse, but ideally somebody will learn a lesson at some point. In four years, those 29-year-olds who voted him in will be in their 30s, maybe earning a little bit more and maybe a little bit more rational. In the meantime, we have Connecticut. I know. It's not the solution to all our problems. Ned Lamont sucks too. I know, but we can't all move to Florida. We live in the Northeast. We like the change of seasons. We like our fall leaves. We like our snowy mornings. That's how we're built. Am I right? That's the problem. So in any event,

I got it. That's all I got for you. I have nothing else to make you feel better. We're together. It's the Ann Coulter line that I love. I saw her at the Republican National Convention back in 2012. We're all in the Fox News Green Room, and she comes in. She's been, you know, a diehard Republican her whole life, diehard conservative.

Stories of her, like, in college, where she got rid of the little alligator on her IZod shirt and replaced it with an elephant that she sewed there. She's not kidding around, and even as a young person. So she walks in, and I'm like, and everybody kind of knew Mitt Romney was not going to wear. win against Barack Obama. But she comes into the Fox News green room bursting with positive energy. I'm like, Ann, how you doing? She goes, I'm great. I'm in a sea of Republicans. And that's how I

feel tonight. All right. So let's get this party started. We're going to do, we're going to take some questions. We'll do a little Q&A. And then we'll bring out the man of the hour. I've been talking a lot about River Bend Ranch lately because I love their stakes. River Bend Ranch has taken black Angus beef to a whole new level. For the last 35 years, River Bend Ranch has been creating a very elite Angus herd by using ultrasound to select genetically superior cattle with a focus on flavor and tenderness. When you buy from River Bend Ranch, you are not only supporting the 64 cowboys and cowgirls and their families who work on the ranch, but you are also supporting over 260 other U.S. ranches and the hundreds of American families who work there. It is born in the USA,

raised in the USA, and this beef is processed in the USA as well. Aged to perfection for 21 days and shipped directly from the ranch to your home. This is not your average black angus beef. So order from riverbend ranch.com, use the promo code Megan, and that'll get you 20 bucks off your first order. And let me know what you think. Riverbendranch.com promo code Megan. Let's do some questions if you guys have them. It's hard for me to see. Yeah, there we go. Okay, hi there. Hi, Megan. I'm Megan. Hi, yes, we've met. Nice to see you. Yes. I love you. You are an inspiration to me. You make me a stronger American. So thank you very much. That's beautiful. We all know how entertaining the clips of the view can be. Yes. But might it be more beneficial

to ignore their ridiculous dialogue? What? What? Which would result in their show being canceled. No, it wouldn't. We need something to laugh about, right? If you guys watch and listen to my show, which I assume you do because you're here, we have to laugh. What are we if we don't laugh at the news? Like, you can't take the news too seriously. And that's why I love those morons so much. I mean, that's what's been so shocking about the Carine Jean-Pierre media tour.

Like, when you are too dumb for the view, what, where do you go from there? I genuinely don't know. That's it. You're already at bottom. So no, I'm not giving up my mocking of them, but thank you for the suggestion. Hi. Hey, Megan. Thanks for coming out.

I just had a quick question for you. You touched on it a bit in the beginning. Obviously, Zoranam Dhani is going to be the next mayor. Is this an early Christmas present to the GOP? Like, what size is it stocking stuff or main gift? How big of a gift is this going to be in the midterms? That's a good question. I feel like this is one of those electronic jeeps that you get

that you can ride on the street. That's the level of present this is. You know, like the one where your kid is like, that's what this is. You couldn't ask for better. I mean, Abigail Spanberger, I said on the show today, she's like Melbo toast. She's like the most boring, untalented politician ever.

She's completely non-threatening. She's feckless. She's going to trans all of Virginia, but so were all of the Democrats. That's, like, for some reason, Virginia has become ground zero in that fight. But Zora Mamdani is, like, he's out there, and he's, like, vibrant, and he commands the microphone, and he knows how to talk to a camera. So he's going to be on camera all the time saying all the crazy shit.

It really is a Christmas gift in November if you don't love New York. That's why everyone in this room is conflicted. Hi, go ahead, hon. Hello, Mrs. Kelly. What advice would you give to a seventh grader who has a trans teacher who is a biological female, but makes everyone call her a hymn. Oh, boy. That's complicated.

I'll answer this honestly, because this is my own... So, you know, I don't say the preferred pronouns anymore. I used to, because I thought it was polite. Yeah. But now I no longer believe in it at all. But this is a different situation because she's an authority figure over you, and, you know, you're a student. So if looking at this person directly, I would just try to avoid pronouns altogether.

I would just completely try to avoid them. But if you have to say them, I think, in a student-teacher situation, I would say them because you're sort of subordinate to her in some ways. And it's a very, that's a tough situation to ask a young girl like you to say the proper pronouns when she's not going by them anymore. But I think you need a nightly reminder to yourself. I really think when you say your prayers at night, you need to ask God to remind you so that your brain can remember what is real.

What is real? That you've been asked to go along with this charade and you will do it to be respectful to this one individual. But when you are at home, I strongly urge you not to use those preferred pronouns. Your brain can remember what you're actually dealing with or just refer to that teacher by their last name when you're not in their presence.

I think directly, though, you could show that teacher the respect of doing it given the relationship, but you just remember because pronouns are hypnol. And what they do to your brain is they dull it. They dull its natural sense of urgency and safety and danger. And you, especially as a young girl, must have those honed. So do not let that sense get honed. We practice it every night and remind yourself of what's real.

Thank you. Hi there. Hello, Megan. Thank you very much. I've been a gay conservative for 25 years. I've served under Don't Ask Don't Tell. God bless you. Fight the good fight.

My question of you is how can I help my fellow gays come out of the closet politically? What is the word I can use to get them to come? I know there are people on the religious right that don't want me in this movement, but I'm going to be here anyway. And I want to

help the others come out as well. We love you. And we do want you in this movement. And don't listen to those haters. They don't speak for us. The conservative movement has been welcoming gays and lesbians for a long, long time now. And it is a a very small, fringy group that doesn't want you.

So don't listen to them. Don't give them a bigger microphone than they pretend to have. You know, your fellow, like, gay conservatives, I think they're waking up bit by bit. I really think we're seeing more and more of them. And I really think that the craziness of the TQ crowd has driven quite a few LGBTs over to the political right because they realize we love lesbians, we love gays,

buys, I don't totally understand. I think those are usually gay. but the point is we're not trying to trans you we're not trying to change you from we love our butch lesbians great awesome the lipsticks are fine too

we love our effeminate gay boys that's fine that's awesome we don't think they're secretly girls only the Democrats think that it's truly like they have that law in Colorado where it's like you can't have conversion therapy now and they consider conversion therapy no longer what we used to think which is like you take a gay person

and try to make them straight technically it's that but they also say it's when you take a kid who comes in and says I might be trans and say yes you're trans you're trans you're trans that's what they want they think if you say are you sure you know let's talk about what's bothering you and you want to have a discussion about it they say that's conversion therapy they want to convert little boys who might have any gender confusion into girls that is completely bigoted and I think is the more we make that argument to our gay and lesbian liberal friends, the more likely we are to get them to step a little bit to the right

and a little bit to the right and a little bit more. This is their tent. Thank you. Hi, Megan. Hi. I'm Molly from Minnesota here with my husband. I'm a mom of three, lawyer. I love you.

So thank you for this opportunity. My question is a tricky one. It's about your view on what we're calling platforming. Earlier this past summer, you challenged Charlie's decision to go on Gavin Newsom's podcast. I think with the idea being that his presence there, legitimized Governor Newsom's facade of being a moderate or kind of brought him into the national conversation. But more recently, you did not publicly question Tucker's decision to give an amicable interview to Nick Fuentes. And so who espouses views that probably should not be legitimized.

And so my question is, how do you distinguish the two? And what responsibility do you feel as an independent journalist to give or not give a platform to controversial or even like bad actors? Thank you. Thank you for that. Totally fair question. Just to correct you, though, I did not object to Charlie a going on Gavin's podcast because it legitimized Gavin. or enhanced his platform, it was that I believe he's in training for 2028

to run against J.D. Vance, and I object to us helping him. I don't think we should help. He spent no time in our circles. He doesn't give a shit how we feel about the world. He's only spent his years mocking it, and now that he wants to run for president, he wants to study us like lab rats,

and he wants to get Bannon on there and Charlie on there, I think he has Tucker on there, because he wants to train and how to debate us, and I don't think we should help him. It's, I said it on my show. It's like the Rocky versus Drago, Rocky 4. Was that Rocky 4 or 5? Right?

And it's like, why would we help Drago? We're on Rocky side. Like, somebody else can train him and put the sled behind him and all that crap. So that's what I objected to, not the platforming. Because in general, I'm fine with platforming. I'm like the guys in the fifth column. I don't even like that term. What is platforming?

It's called interviewing. You know, Diane Sawyer interviewed Jeffrey Dahmer. Like, we do that as journalists. Like, literally, Mike Wallace had the head of the KKK on 60, minutes in a hood in a hood now generally what you do is when you get somebody like that you challenge them right and I think some people thought maybe Tucker wasn't tough enough on Nick Fuentes and bringing up some of his old comments or not so old and I will tell you while I rarely criticize Tucker because he's one of my dearest friends and I adore him I happen

to know that I had a big event with Tucker coming up and if you just wait a few minutes you might hear us have a very interesting conversation about that. Hi there. Hi, Megan. My name is Donna. It's not so much a question, but just wanted to say thank you. In 2015, my son Michael was murdered by illegal gun violence at the age of 23. He was my best friend. And a lot of times, just to forget about what I was actually feeling I would watch you on Fox just to keep my mind busy and I just wanted to thank you thank you for coming to Westchester White Plains we love you

so sweet thank you I'm so sorry about your loss I'll say a prayer for you and for him he's with the Savior and he's in a great place and I'll bet he's looking at us right now and cheering you for getting up and saying that you know I think I think you revealed something about yourself, though, and it's the reason why you're going to be okay, and that is you chose to do something while you were grieving to get your mind off of it.

That's a very healthy thing to do. Very healthy. You know, we talk about this sometimes, but people these days they want to ruminate. They encourage one another to sit in their misery. Now, obviously, when you've had, when you first had a massive loss, that's going to happen, and that's natural and that's important.

But, you know, years as they go by, the more you want to ruminate and think about these things, the more unhappy you will be. And I really think, I've said this before, but my husband, Doug, is a Presbyterian, and he's really now convinced me that the best method is to just push it down. I know it's funny, but it's real.

I was raised in the crazy Oprah generation where we let it all hang out, and then we were 400 pounds. This is not the way, my friends. The way is to turn on the news and distract yourself. Get your mind off of your problems for a little while. It's frankly why I think true crime is so popular.

you know like I use it for that too you can't think of anything when you're thinking about these terrible stories and who murdered this poor lady by the way it was always the husband but I thank you for sharing that with me yeah we'll take a couple more and then we'll wrap it

hi Megan I'm Kate I run an election watchdog group in Maryland you have an incredible way with using data and your persuasive legal analysis to move the needle and I really appreciate

that about you One thing I'm wondering is with all the stunning amount of evidence that our elections are not secure or even possibly safe, I'm wondering why you don't focus on elections every once in a while for the guests that you put in on. That's a fair question. You know, it's not something that I understand fully. And to understand it fully, you of all people know this, you really got to study it. So I kind of feel about it the way I feel about tariffs. like I'll put a toe in, but I don't feel like I have the authority to go deep in because I don't

fully understand it and I can't, so therefore I can't be an authority on it or explain it to my audience. But I like you, have serious questions about it. I'm very much in the Trump camp of all this vote by mail is very dangerous. I agree with him that the number of hands that touch the ballot make it, I realize it's convenient, trust me, but I don't think it's secure and I would much rather we return to one day, one vote. Right? And the Democratic won't do it because they know that Republicans are the ones who show up in the day of. And by the way, then they can't cheat. So it's a good, it's a good suggestion, especially as we go forward in election year.

Thank you. Thank you for what you do. All right, we'll take one more. Hi, Megan. Thanks for being here. My name's Maury. I'm here with my wife, Amy. I'm asking for you to play out Proposition 50 in terms of how it is for the Republicans and for Gavin Newsom.

Well, it's terrible for the Republicans. You know Prop 50 in California where they changed. They weren't allowed to redistricting in California. willy-nilly. It had to be like done once every 10 years. I can't remember what the limit was, but they just changed that such that they can redo it now. And it was a direct response to what happened in Texas with Greg Abbott redistricting down there, which by the way, to me too, looked like a naked power grab at first in Texas. But the more I studied it, the more I actually was convinced, they did gerrymander in Texas to create more black districts, which

is racist and not allowed. And the people who challenged that have had a lot, like very grounds to challenge that. And I completely understand the lawsuits and actually support them saying that the original redrawing of the districts in Texas to allow districts to be drawn around racial lines is what was wrong. And now they're trying to correct that. And so what the Democrats did in California was not a tit for tat. It actually doubled down on what the Democrats have already been the chiefs of, which is the redistricting in order to create gerrymandered seats for their people across the country. So my only hope, and like, you know, I'm for fighting fire with fire when it comes to the law fair and some other things,

is we've got to find a state where we can do that too. And we're just going to have to play this game where, like, you know, nuclear arms race until somebody says, uncle, but I think it's going to be them because they've already squeezed almost all the districts they can out of their gerrymender schemes. And I think Republicans have a few more to go. So it's on. Sorry, but it's on. All right.

Thank you, sir. Thank you all for listening to the Q&A. It's so fun to talk to you. I was saying on the show, like, I never get to talk to you. I talk to you, but I never get you to talk to me. So it's wonderful to see your faces and hear your friends. questions and hear what's directly on your mind. I am thoroughly enjoying the tour. Okay, without further ado, you're going to love this. Now listen, I'm going to tell you a few things

about my guest tonight. And then we have a really fun sizzle reel for him. We've been working on it for a while. So Tucker Carlson and I met, I think it was back in like 2009. He started coming on Fox News as a contributor, and as he likes to say, he's been fired from every place. And so he wound up at Fox News. I mean, it was an obvious place for him because he was always a conservative, but had done his time at CNN and MS and other places. And he comes over to Fox News and I found him

fascinating right from the get-go because Tucker, even back then, had ways into the story and had ideas of what was the story that no one else had. Right? That is one of Tucker's greatest gifts to this day. He finds ways into the story or he finds the story

that no one else is talking about. One thing you could never accuse Tucker of is being wrote and repetitive of what you hear everywhere else. And so for me, as an anchor at Fox News at the time, I think I was still doing America's Newsroom with Bill Hemmer. He caught my attention immediately, and then I had an afternoon show. I was pregnant with my daughter, Yardley, at the time, and Tucker would come on. And then in 2013, he got hired as a weekend host at Fox and Friends, and that is when

I launched in the prime time with the Kelly File, that same year. And I started having Tucker on. was always great. He was always funny, he's so affable and such like a kind, happy warrior. He's always been that way, no matter how much crap rains down on Tucker. He never loses his sense of humor or his general sense of just being a good, happy person to have around. He walks into the room, the energy improves immediately. So we had that back then. And listen, those were not great years. Those were the Obama years. Like the news was boring. Obama was boring, but we knew we didn't like him. And Tucker was always super entertaining. So I started to fall in love with

this guy in the air. I just thought he was really special. And then as our careers kept going, Donald Trump came on the scene. And people don't know this about Tucker, but from the moment Trump came out politically in 2015 forward, Tucker was a Trump whisperer. He didn't bill himself as that. People didn't fully understand that's what he was, but I saw it. And he saw the magic of Trump before anybody else did. There were very few who could actually see it and articulate it. And the ones who could and did are the ones who would drive that that Trump wave to superstardom. Very few. It could have been superstardom in the political field or in the media field. And that was Tucker Carlson. Every time I had him on. And I never knew whether he loved Trump or didn't love Trump.

I just knew he got Trump. He was a Trump whisperer in a way very few were when Trump was being universally dismissed, including by me. And so he helped me, I listened to him, and I learned, and what he taught me night after night coming on the show, talking about Trump, was right. And when Trump won and then became our president and then slowly but surely over the next 10 years would build this massive support, it wasn't a surprise to me because of Tucker Carlson, because I listened to somebody who was saying something very different from what everybody else was saying, and he did not mislead me, he was right. And the thing about Tucker is he's

been right about so much. We could be here all night, but another one that we have to mention is COVID, right? He was early, early on the train of this is wrong. This is authoritarian. This is evil what they're doing to us. How are they closing the beaches? How are they cutting down the basketball hoops? Not that many people were saying that. A couple, even on Fox. But Tucker was, and he was in that role. And he was in that primetime role because I left Fox, as you know, in January of 17. Let's not even talk about what happened right after that. I left Fox, and Tucker and I had become friends. And Lockland Murdoch asked me, who do you think should take your spot? And I said, it absolutely has to be Tucker Carlson. And he said, really? And I said absolutely 100%. I said

he's literally the only person who could do it. And Tucker and I had a great talk. And Tucker and I had a great talk. I was in the hair salon. I remember leaving Fox and getting my color done and he thanked me. And I was like, of course, you don't have to thank me. You earned it. You know, like you're the obvious choice. This is before his, you know, career completely went juggernaut. And we went on. My career then hit the skids massively. Tucker's completely reached, you know, lunar levels. And then when the shit hit the fan for me at NBC and I was the scourge of the nation, being called a racist in every newspaper in America. all over online. I'm going to do the point where it was like active tears in my home every day. But I said, Doug, you'll be fine. No, no, it wasn't Doug. Remember the Presbyterian, stuff it down. No, it was me.

There were almost no media figures who would stand up for me. They didn't want to touch me with a 10-foot pole because I was totally toxic. Now, I had friends in my life who were in media who were completely supportive. Melissa Francis, I see you out there. She's a dear friend, and she had my back. But on the air, almost no one, literally almost no one, except for Tucker Carlson,

who got out there and kicked some NBC ass viciously like a boss. And I have to tell you, when you were down on the mat, you know, bleeding, and you have somebody do that for you, the gratitude is overwhelming and so I've had Tucker's back and he's had my back and this is just a few of these are just a few of the reasons why I love Tucker Carlson love

I don't care what anybody says about him I will always have his back he's controversial so am I so are most people in media who take risks and do big swings for the fences do we always hit the ball perfectly no We don't. But when you know a man's character, you know a man's character. And Tucker is a great man. Medicare's annual enrollment period is here, and let's be honest, it's more confusing than ever.

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So don't wait. Call chapter now at 27 Medicare. That's 27 Medicare and get the peace of mind you deserve. It's finally here. All right, let's get this party started. Megan Kelly Live on tour across America. I was like, we have to go and then after what happened to Charlie, I'm like, we definitely have to go. The best way to honor Charlie's legacy is to be out here, to be unafraid, to not back down. Stand firmly. Do not waver on the truth. Next stop, White Plains, Jacksonville, Miami, and Atlanta. So go get your tickets right now before they sell out.

Megan Kelly.com. Presented by Y. Refai and SiriusXM. All right. I'm going to bring them out in one minute, but first, enjoy this. Hi, Tucker. This is kind of surreal because I remember watching you in 2004. on CNN. What? I never worked at CNN. There is no religious movement that threatens peaceful civilizations more than this cult within Islam. You're rid of AI, dude. I'm Senator Hillary

Ron. I'm Clinton. Hello, Tucker. I never did that. That's totally, that's AI, man. Rachel Maddow joining us from New York. Hi, Tucker. Nice to see you. Great to see you. I've done a lot of shameful things. I'm not going to pretend. the cha-cha-cha-cha, Tucker Carlson and his partner Elena Grimienko. I can't believe I just did that. Joining me now with more, Tucker Carlson. I had a great time in cable news. I really enjoyed it. People who are affecting your lives ought to have to answer pretty straightforward questions about what they're doing.

What country is this? Well, it's a country in a lockdown. The whims of our political leaders are now unquestioned law. Descent has been banned. Would you like to read your quote that people who disagree with you ought to potentially go to jail? You said that. Yes, I'm a specious. Okay. You got me. What are you? The Capple. Can you just do that again? I think you perfected it.

I liked everyone I worked for, including the people who fired me, which was everybody I worked for. Like, on what grounds could I be mad? I don't know. Like some corporate person didn't like me? Well, I don't like corporate people. So we're even. It's just nice not to have anybody telling you. you can say. The creation of COVID was probably not what they told us. This question appears to be subtle. It is quite pesky. I'm asking at the behest of his family. And they think it was a murder. I think now, you know, there's a need for people who are honest. What motivates you to keep going? Who the hell knows? I don't know. The audience can tell if you're trying to tell the truth.

And that's kind of the main thing they want, I think. Don't patronize you. me and lie to me, just be straightforward. I'm so grateful to be here. I didn't think I'd ever leave my house again. We had Nazi week this week, and so I turned off my phone. I have Nazi week about once a year for like 30 years, and now I'm just like, I can't. You have any big interviews lately? How's everything going?

I literally went on a hunting trip, and my wife had put Starlink in her hunting camp, which I was totally opposed to, but there was a sense that, like, I needed to be in touch. And my phone went off. We're like on the Canadian border, and hunting. with my college roommates and all of a sudden I check my phone is you know you have 400 texts and they're like Nazi and I was like turning this off I still haven't replied yet unsubscribe no I've been through this before yes yes of course you have I mean everybody has as I was you know just recounting I was a racist in literally every newspaper in the country it's like this is what they say they go to

the worst possible place to paint anything you do as an attempt I think to delegitimize you so let's talk about it let's talk about why Nick Fuentes I interviewed Fuentes Well, I should just give the publicly available information on this, which is that I was in an extremely personal and bitter war with Fuentes like three weeks ago. It mostly wasn't public, but Fuentes was attacking my father, a subject I have literally no sense if you were. My father passed in March, and, you know, it was really kind of the patriarch. Not kind of. He was the patriarch in our family and a hero to every person in our family.

and, you know, some of what Fentz was saying about my dad was, you know, true, okay, which made it worse. But I was just so offended by that. I couldn't deal with it. And my son and my wife. So, you know, I was really mad at Fomtez. And then I did an interview and just out of the, I was so mad at, like, popped out and I attacked Nick Fentz. In this interview, this was last month, I think, ish. And then I got all these calls from people saying, do you know anything about, I don't know anything really about Nick Fonters? Fuentes, other than he's attacking my dad, my wife, and my son. And it was like, actually, Nick Fuentes is the single most influential commentator among young men. Like, period. He's got five million subscribers on Rumble. It's bonkers. And I didn't know any of it. I'm in 56, so I'll just like state the obvious, you know? He's not our demo. My oldest child is 31, like much older than Nick Fuentes. So I kind of missed a lot of this stuff. I pride myself on not

missing things. I totally miss that. Really? And then it turns out that, you know, he is advertisers. They've been trying to cancel them since freshman year in college. Ben Shapiro actually tried to shut them down freshman year in college. And it didn't work. In fact, it had the opposite effect. So I was like, hmm. And so I talked to a million people I know. Like, maybe I should interview Nick Fuentes to hear what, like, what is this actually? And so I decided to do it. And I thought it would be controversial. I didn't think it would become what it's become. I'm not going to offer any defense other than, you know, it's kind of interesting. I've literally, I mean, I've interviewed any of, I'm doing this for 34 years, so I've interviewed everybody, most of them bad people, to be honest.

Right. I interviewed Liberian militia leaders during the Liberian Civil War, all cannibals, every single one of them. It tasted human flesh. And first of all, I kind of like them. I'm just being honest, because I like people. Don't agree with cannibalism, pretty opposed. For the record. But I'm just that way.

I just like people in the closer, if you can, like, smell someone and talk to them, like, it's hard to not see the human in the person, even if he's a cannibal. Did the Liberian cannibals smell good? Kind of rank, to be honest. Actually, during the interview, this is, I'm never forget this. I was in Africa to cover the Civil War, and I'm interviewing this guy, and he was like, you know, commander butt naked, or it wasn't actually Commander But Naked, who was a famous militia leader during that war, who fought, needless to say, but naked. But I'm interviewing this guy, and his cell phone goes off, and it's the Woody Woodpecker theme song. Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. And I was like, oh my gosh, you're human.

It was, like, hilarious. Anyway, the point is, none of those were controversial. Like, I interview people who are hated, and in some cases, like, demonstrably evil, and I asked them, why did you do that? And what, you know, what's your account of yourself? Like, tell me who you are. What do you believe? And I wanted to, that was the first thing I wanted to achieve with Nick Fentz.

It's like, what is this? Tell me, you know, I'll give you two hours. I have only watched your clips for, like, a minute long. I want to hear, like, why don't you describe what you think? Because I think that's the small role that I play, which is to get, documentary evidence of people describing what they think. I did it with Putin. I'll probably do it with every other bad person in the world, because I'm interested. Not because I agree with them, because I think it's interesting. And second, I wanted to say something very specific to Nick

Fuentes, and it's this. And I said it, which is, I think it's totally legitimate to criticize any foreign country, from Belgium to Congo to Israel, because they're foreign countries. Yes. And I'll never give up that right. In fact, it's an obligation, I would say. And to be reasonable about it and not you know but what's in america's interest totally legitimate it is totally illegitimate and very specifically unchristian to attack people for their DNA like i hate this group you wanted him to hear that he has we all have to hear that and because that is the basis of western civilization western civilization western civilization is derived from the new testament it is based on Christian ethics and the core difference between the West and the rest of the world, not just

Israel, but every other country is that we don't believe in collective punishment because we don't believe in blood guilt. We don't believe that you are born guilty, and we also don't believe that you're born virtuous. We believe that God created every person as an individual. God did not create communities. Every woman gives birth to a human being, and every person has the spark of God inside him. I mean, that's what we believe as Christians, and every person has the possibility of redemption. And in my religion, the great human hero in Christianity, Jesus is God in human form. But the great human hero in the New Testament is its primary author, Paul, who was Saul of Tarsus, who was the primary persecutor as a Pharisee of Christians. He was murdering Christians.

He was Jewish, by the way, like everyone in the New Testament, but he was on the way to go murder murder more Christians that he met Jesus, and then he became the great evangelist of our faith and wrote the majority of the New Testament. So he's my personal hero, but he's also living testament to the truth about people, which is each one of us was born in as an individual, and we will face God alone at the end to account for our lives. And along the way, there is always the possibility that no matter what your genes are, what you look like, or what your religion is, that you can change, and that you can be saved by Jesus. That is Christianity in three sentences. And so that is reflected, even for people who aren't Christians,

that is reflected in an ethical framework and a legal code that is the only truly unusual and great thing about the West, which is we do not punish the innocent. We only punish the guilty. We do not, you commit a crime, we don't throw your kids in jail. We don't execute your cousins. We don't commit genocide against your whole tribe. We punish you because you did it.

We treat each person as an individual. That is Western civilization. and that's a Christian understanding, does not derive from any other religion. Christianity alone, alone, unique, makes that claim. And that's the base of our justice system, which, again, even non-Christians appreciate, that's why they move here, because it's self-evidently more humane. That's where the idea of human rights come from. They're not collective rights.

It's not that your tribe has rights, and his tribe does, and it's you as an individual have rights. And that idea is not only being challenged in our country, it's being did. disregarded. It's disregarded in DEI. It's disregarded an affirmative action. Identity politics is a refutation of that idea. We are awarding some people something because of how they were born and hurting others for the same reason. That is anti-Western. It's evil. And it leads, in the end, inexorably to genocide. That is the root idea behind what happened in Europe in the 40s, under the Nazis. It's the real idea behind what happened in Rwanda in 1994. It's the root idea just saying behind what's happening in Gaza right now, where it's like, we're going to kill

the kids too. We don't care. And we're going to, by the way, move everyone out because they're a people that is fundamentally opposed to us. Yeah, well, I'm not for that. Sorry, because that's not the Western understanding of justice. We punish the guilty alone. We do not punish the innocent. Period. And that's not racism. And in fact, it's the, it's the answer to racism. It's the answer to anti-Semitism. It's why anti-Semitism is wrong. It's why racism is wrong. No, you're not better than me. No, you're not worse than me because of how you were born. You're the same as me because we're both created by God. Period. So the whole idea of thinking of people as members of tribes, any tribe, including my tribe, is prima facie immoral.

And yet, it is the operating idea behind so much of our politics. And I reject it. I reject it when it manifests as anti-Semitism. I reject it when it manifests as anti-white racism, which has been pretty common. I know we're not supposed to say it, but it's real. But I'm not mad about that just because my kids are white, which they are. I'm mad about that because the idea is immoral, it's anti-Christian, and that is the destruction of the West. And so when I see these people, like, we're defending Western, when Mark Levins, like, we're defending Western civilization, Randy Fine, who's like, yeah, we just have to kill every Palestinian because they're Palestinian so we can defend Western civilization. I'm like, no, no, no, you're the enemy of Western

civilization, because collective punishment is the enemy of Western civilization, period. Wow. That's what I wanted to say, and I said it, and they called me a Nazi, and I'm like, Actually, I hate the Nazis for that specific reason. But wait, what I hear you saying, sort of, is that you wanted to reach him. You wanted him. Of course, I want to reach him and everyone watching. But were you trying to help him in a way? I want to tell the truth, as I understand it, with the ever-present knowledge that I'm kind of a buffoon and I'm often wrong.

I supported the Iraq War. I remind myself of that every single day. I've made a ton of mistakes, a ton of errors in judgments, I've been carried away by enthusiasm and particularly by anger, many times in my life. So with that knowledge, knowing that I am imperfect and I don't always possess the truth, okay? You always have to remember that because I'm not God.

I still want to tell the truth as clearly and completely as I can in every venue, in every conversation, as fearlessly and without shame as I possibly can. And that's why Nazi Week doesn't bother me anymore because I'm not a Nazi. I'm a Christian. Of course. So what about

I don't want to spend the whole time on this But I am curious The main criticism, as I understand it, has been Well, yes, platforming They say that I don't accept platforming As an valid objection What is that a verb? By the way, you take a noun

And you make it into a verb And nobody says anything As a former editor, I say no Yeah, agreed Honestly, but like As far as I know, Nick Fuentes Hasn't eaten anyone You know, I mean, Jeffrey Dahmer ate people

And he was platformed by Diane Soer We have a member, a sitting member of Congress I spoke to the Speaker of the House about this today. We have a sitting member of Congress from Florida called Randy Fine, who is literally texted or put on Twitter, we should kill them all, every single one. Someone texted a picture of literally of a dead baby, and he laughs at it.

And it's like, this guy's a lawmaker who's appropriating money to a military committing genocide, and that's cool. It's not cool. And let's just be honest, that is much worse than anything Nick Fuentes has said, period. So the main pushback has been When you had Jeffrey Dahmer or the Ku Klux Klan or et cetera These journalists went after them

Like exposed the terrible things And Nick Fuentes has said A long list of very vile things Big time including attacking my dad Which was the most vile of all in my opinion Yeah I mean I personally have watched videos of him Questioning the Holocaust Likening it to baking cookies in the oven

And there's no way you could have gotten to six million Seems to be his theory He seems to think that We've way overstated the number of Jews killed in the Holocaust. He's ripped on poor Usha Vance in the most offensive terms, which I mean, so what do you say to those people to say, why don't you raise any of that? You know, do your own interview the way that you want to do it. You're not my editor. Buzz off.

I mean, I don't know. You want to go yell at Nick Fuentes? I'll give you a cell. Call him. And go sit and yell at him and feel virtuous or whatever. That's up to you. I got the same thing with Putin. Why aren't you yelling at him?

Okay. Why? So I can show that I'm a good person. person. I care about what my wife thinks, my children think, and God thinks, and that's it. I don't need to prove that I'm a good person to you. You may think I'm a terrible person. Okay, I'm just doing my thing, which is I want to understand what people think. And I'm committed to that, and if you don't like it, don't watch. That's my view. But that doesn't mean that I share the views. I'm not telling Nazi jokes, obviously, or Holocaust jokes. I mean, please. And I don't, you know, I'm not

telling them even in private, because I'm not into that at all. but I will say just since you brought it up one thing that did bother me was the Ushavans thing and I did actually I generally make it a practice not to be like you said this and da da da da da and the internet tells me or you know the ADL says you said this

it's like why don't you just tell me what you do think like why don't you speak for yourself because we're adults that is my approach with everybody whether I like him or don't like him but the Ushavans thing did upset me because I know Ushavans and I love Ushavans and I was really offended by that, just personally because I know her, right?

And in a normal way. And I did think about that. Like, that pissed me off. And I, I'm just being as honest as I can be, I didn't want to repeat it. Yeah. No, you're always in that position. Actually, you know? As a journalist, you're always there, like, do I repeat it?

Well, if you know the person. And spread it? Kind of. And it's, like, so wounding. And, I mean, he attacked my wife, as I said. So, I don't know. I'm sensitive on this. Maybe I made the wrong call, by the way, probably.

So now having done it. it, what do you think of him? About Fuentes? Yeah. I think, it's so funny. I did not make Nick Fuentes. Nick Fuentes is, well, he's just enormously gifted as a, as a broadcaster.

I mean, it's unbelievable his talent is, I mean, I have done that job. Not the Holocaust jokes, obviously, but I mean, I've sat in front of a camera and talked. He's really good at it. He has not been canceled. He can't be canceled. So I kind of think of Fuentes in terms of like what place does he occupy and what does he say about our society. And I'm not making excuses for anybody else's views, I'm just saying as a factual matter,

if this is the most popular person among young men, young white men, then we need to like start thinking about why that is. And we need to reflect on what we have collectively done to young men, which has destroy them. actually. And no one wants to say that because no one wants to take any responsibility at all for anything ever. No one ever wants to repent. They all want to cast stones. They don't see the plank in their own eye. This is including me. It's just humans are like this. And they want to be like, Nazi. And it's like, oh, yeah, okay. Great. But like, how did this happen? Why are they listening to him? Kind of. And part of the reason is because the Republican Party

completely betrayed its voters by obsessing over Israel. That's just. just a fact. Like, what is this? It's a country of 9 million people. I'm not against Israel. I've visited it on vacation. I've always liked. Jerusalem is my favorite city in the world. I'm not against Israel, but like, why is that the center of our conversation? It's 9 million people, no resources. The only strategic value Israel has is the extent to which we have to defend Israel. But take that out, and there's no value at all. I'm not against it. I'm just saying, like, we're a country of 350 million people. We're the most important country in the world, and our politics is, and practically every member of Congress spends,

all day talking about Israel. And if you're a normal person, you're like, I don't hate Israel, I certainly don't hate Jews. But what the hell is this? And then it's like, shut up, you can't talk about it. But wait, can't clarify what you mean? Because when you were winding up on, you know, the Republican Party has abandoned young men.

I was with you. Both parties have abandoned young men, especially the Democrats, though, for so many other reasons. But why Israel? You're saying the focus is over there. Because all the energy, yeah. I mean, look, Trump is elected.

I campaign for him with, and I love Trump. I just want to say that. talk to him the other day and I, and I love Trump. And I've known him for 25 years and I, I mean, I could write many books on Trump and they would be positive, basically. But the second he gets elected, who's the first person to visit, BB? Then he comes again. Then he comes again. And it's like, the energy of the administration and of the entire U.S. government is all of a sudden about Iran, a war with Iran, really? How many people do you know who've been killed by Iran in the United States in your lifetime? Zero, because that's the number. How many people you know

who've died of a drug OD? Some. maybe you have a nephew who did. So, like, what is this? I know you want to have regime change in Iran. I'm not mad at Israel at all. It doesn't... I'm not actually mad at Israel. I'm mad at our leaders

for spending their time and my money focusing on someone else's country. And then I'm doubly mad because that's a total betrayal of the promise, which is your government works for you because you own the government because it's a democratic republic.

Like, what the hell is going on? And then if you say anything about it, it's like, you're a Nazi, you're an anti-Semite. Well, actually, I'm not. And I'm in a really great place to say that because I actually, I really am not. And no matter how many times they say that, it doesn't bother me because it's, I think it's, in fact, by the way, I think they are attacking me because I'm pretty reasonable. Like, who would disagree with what I'm saying? I'm just, maybe you do. Okay, you do, but you do.

You disagree with what I'm saying? But, like, what is the answer? why would the U.S. government spend all this time? No, I'm just a sincere question. Why is the overwhelming majority of the U.S. Congress taking money from a foreign unregistered lobby? Like, what? Like, what is the answer? From APA. Why is that okay? And they want, they don't, they want to prevent you from asking that question because there really isn't a good answer other than shut up. And if there's, if that's the only answer, I just, by my temperament and my age, I'm just

not going to shut up because that's not hate, it's sincere. What is that? What do you make of the folks who say, Israel is our most important ally in the Middle East? They're in a very tough neighborhood. They have our shared Western values. They have our back. We have their back. And that we have much more in common with the people in Israel

than we do with some of these surrounding countries who are pushing things like Sharia law, which I heard you comment. Okay. What's happening in Gaza which is the killing of civilians because they are related to terrorists. They've said that too. This is not a left-wing talking point.

Have you read what Israeli... It's just a fact. Read Ben-Givir, Smotrich, on this. These are sitting cabinet ministers in the current government saying, starve them out. Kill them. Kill their children. This is like a cabinet secretary in the current government in Israel,

saying this out loud. That is not Western. That's Eastern. That is totally incompatible with Western civilization. We don't punish the innocent, period, under any circumstances, or else we're as bad as the people were fighting. And that, by the way, the U.S. government has done the same, and I've complained about it a lot. And no one has ever called me names for criticizing my own government. So why is it verboten to criticize somebody else's government thousands of miles away?

What the hell are you talking about? That is a great question. I just believe in the principle. And second, tell me why they're our most important ally. Right down the road, you've got countries that have like the bulk of the world's energy supply. That's not an important ally? What? If you're looking at foreign policy through the lens of what's good for America, you don't want to make unnecessary enemies.

I like Israel for the eighth time. How many people have been there on vacation just because they like it? I have. I took my kids. I'm not against it. I don't want it to get hurt. But from a geostrategic point of view, your duty, if you're running the State Department

or running the White House or a member of Congress is to serve the people who elected you in your country. So you need to think seriously as you do with your own children, what's good for them? And one thing that's good for them

is being allies with countries that have a lot of energy because it makes civilization run. That's why. Et cetera, et cetera. So, like, that doesn't even make any sense. Okay. I think we've covered the Israel thing.

I mean, those are not Nazi views. Those are pro. No, those are not Nazi views. from day one. When he said America first, a lot of smart people thought, whoa, if you put America first, then you're going to put Israel second. And that's why they hated Trump. That's why they hate me. But most people in both parties, at least conceptually, will agree with that because there's no real argument against putting your own country first, because that's the purpose of your government. But here's my own view. So here we are. We're 20 minutes in. And we've already

devoted a lot of time to the topic of Israel and whether somebody's an anti-Semite and all that. And I just feel like this is taking over the discussion on the right. It's taking, and it shouldn't be. We have our own problems here at home. With all due respect, I care about Israel. I've given Israel a wide berth as it's conducted its response to the attack, the horrible attack that happened on 10-7. But it's been two years now. President Trump has managed to wrap this up for the time being at least, and we really have our own problems that we need to worry about. Yes, you think? So let's talk about some of our problems. Streaming November 16th on Paramount Plus,

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We are going on the road. Join me. Live. Megan Kelly Live, 10 stops across the country. Join me for no BS, no agenda, and no fear live. I'll be joined by Tucker Carlson, Ben Shapiro, Glenn Beck, Adam Harolla, Charlie Sheen, Pierce Morgan, Donald Trump, Jr., Eric Trump, and Erica Kirk. Send a message that we will not be silenced. It's Megan Kelly Live, presented by Y Refai and SiriusXM. Go to Megan Kelly.com to get your tickets now. You can stream the Megan Kelly Show on SiriusXM at home or anywhere you are. no car required. I do it all the time. I love the SiriusXM app. It has ad-free music,

coverage of every major sport, comedy talk, podcasts, and more. Subscribe now, get your first three months for free. Go to SiriusXM.com slash MK Show to subscribe and get three months free. That's SiriusXM.com slash MK Show and get three months free. Offer details apply. What do you think of Zer? Zoramam Dhani, and what do you think of Jay Jones winning in Virginia, notwithstanding what he said? Well, that just kind of tells you, Jay Jones is a big Israel guy, by the way, which maybe is why he's not the subject of Nazi week. But, I mean, of course, right? This is a guy, the new Attorney General of Virginia, the chief law enforcement officer in the Commonwealth of Virginia, who fantasized and then not only fantasized, defended the fantasies of murdering someone else's kids with a gun because,

the parents of those kids disagreed with him. This is the collective punishment that I'm talking about. This is the brain virus that's taking over our country, that whole groups are guilty. This is the root of, again, of anti-Semitism, of the anti-white stuff, of the tribalism that will destroy this society, and

every other society that falls prey to it. And he, as the chief law enforcement officer, whose core duty is to administer the law impartially, fairly, evenly to every American citizen, has already admitted that he's basically a Hutu, and no one seems to care.

Okay, so that's like the scariest thing I can imagine. Honestly, that's a scary thing. As for Mamdani, I mean, you know, there are a lot of things to say I won't go on about it, but I just found it, speaking of Israel, taking over the conversation, this is a guy who said in public and then defended a statement that we're going to tax whites more because they're white. Yeah.

And nobody cared. They're like, oh, but he doesn't have the right views on Israel. What? Again, be quiet about Israel. I don't care. I don't have. to care. I'm not bad for not caring. So what I care about is my country. I don't think they think he has the right views on Israel. I don't think he does have the right views in Israel. But I don't care

about his views on Israel because we're not in Israel. We're in the United States. And he said I'm going to tax white people more because they're white. And like nobody cared. And it's like what the hell? Bottom line, without getting all worked up, I will say, it's our biggest city. It's eight million people. Cities are incredibly complex organisms. Take centuries to build. my ancestors helped build New York, by the way, but can be destroyed very, very quickly. Look at Johannesburg, 30 years, and it's a husk. It's a joke, and it was a beautiful city. Look at Gary, Indiana, Detroit. Look at almost all of our cities, Baltimore. And that could happen to New York City very soon. In fact, it will. I have a child that lives here.

Call me today. I was like, I'm leaving. Not an ideological person. It's just like, we know where this is going, because it's happened in dozens and dozens. In fact, it's happened to almost every single big city we have. And now it's happening to our biggest city, and it's just the greatest tragedy and I feel like it doesn't have to happen. It doesn't have to happen. Someone, it's just like your house. If you allow as the father, as the patriarch in your family, chaos to break out and you don't settle it down and set limits and say, I mean, I would say my family, you know, I'm all about no. That's my job. I don't like saying no, but that's my duty. Someone has to be like, no, we're not doing that. We're not, you know, pissing on the street. We're not having

sex in an ATM vestibule. We're not pushing people in front of a suburb. We're not pushing people in front the subway cars. We're not smoking drugs in the park. Like, how about no? And because no one is willing to say that, it just inexorably falls apart. And I think it's the saddest thing I've ever seen. How do you think, what letter grade would you give Donald Trump so far? Well, as always, I just give him, like, huge style points. He's just hilarious. He's just unbelievable. He's just, and he never gets credit for it, you know. People always say Trump is always seeking credit for everything, but in my view, as a middle-aged man,

every middle-aged man wants to be thought of as funny. And the core unmet desire in the heart of every long-married man is to have his wife laugh at his jokes. And, of course, it doesn't happen. It can't happen as some rule of nature. It's like Sisyphus, the rock never gets to the top for some reason, but you keep pushing it. And I feel like Trump is a victim of that very, very, very,

very sad, very rarely recognized syndrome, the unrecognized comedian syndrome, I think he's freaking hilarious. I just do. It's amazing. Yeah. I think sealing the borders is a wonderful achievement. Yep. Yes.

I think, you know, you could argue both ways on sending troops to cities and how it was done and will it work or whatever, but just saying out loud. that crime and disorder are the most basic enemies of civilization is so important. It's like you can say you're civilized, but if your wife is getting mugged, if your kids are afraid to go to school, you're not civilized. You're living like animals. Even animals don't live like that. So just to have him say that is hugely reassuring to me and hugely important.

Telling the truth is often more important than really doing anything. And then I would say tariffs kind of open question. I'm certainly rooting for them. But the foreign policy stuff, it's like every president struggles with this. You just get swarmed, and it seems so important and imminent, and we have to do this.

And, like, actually, I have found in life, a lot of the time it's like, don't just do something, sit there. Like, actually don't take action as often the wisest response to what appears to be a crisis. Just calm down. What did you think about

threatening boots on the ground in Nigeria? And it's, like, deranged, you know? No. Have you been to Nigeria? I have. No. Yeah, no. They're slaughtering Christians.

Yeah, they are. Christians are being killed in a lot of different places, and I hate it. But boots on the ground may not be the right way to do it. I just, you know, I'm 56, so I was, you know, what, 32 or something when 9-11 happened, and I spent the next 10 years, like, traveling to all the places and seeing all the stuff, and I can just tell you what you already know, which is our response just was totally counterproductive, in a very deep sense, counterproductive, and really bad for America. I'm sad about that. I supported it. I'm not blaming anyone, but that's just true.

So we haven't figured out how to make things better by inserting troops. You can certainly overthrow people. You can force Hitler to kill himself. You can make the emperor resign or whatever. You can do those things. You can do the kind of obvious things, but the fine motor skills are tough, are really tough. Like, how do you change attitudes and tribalism? I mean, I think in a specific case of Nigeria,

I was talking to a friend of mine who lives in Nigeria yesterday, who said, you know, it's anti-Christian. Of course, Christians get martyred all the time, including in Azerbaijan. But in this case, it's primarily tribal, different tribes. But whatever, it's complex. I don't, you know, I don't know. Doesn't seem like a good morass to start.

Speaking of which, Dick Cheney died. I knew him well. How do you think he'll be remembered? You know, probably, I mean, I'm just really loathe to, I have great respect for death. I've seen a lot of it, and I'm opposed to it. I will just say that. But I have reverence for it, and I just don't, I, it's, if you're not, like, back on your heels a little bit in the face of death and just acknowledging that there are mysteries no human mind can comprehend and sort of humble in the face of it,

then you're not really in touch with your best parts. You're not fully human. So I just don't criticize people when they die. And I will say one charitable thing, which is an amazing flycaster, amazing. He could drop a dry fly in the top of a beer bottle at like 40 feet, which if you're a dry fly fisherman and I am, is like ridiculous, standing in a boat.

And I also, I've been hunting with him. Good shot when he wasn't drinking. He was, no, well, he did shoot. Harry Whittington in the face but like if that had been a quail and not a lawyer from Austin I think the quail would have been dead

Harry took quite a few pellets from the 28 that day tough man by the way lived another 20 years but he raised a really repulsive daughter which I think is bad and just on the downside you know I've got a bunch of daughters

they're just fine people and I'm more proud of them than of anything in my life and if I had a daughter you know, like Liz Cheney I don't believe in suicide, but I would consider it. Oh, wow. Okay. While we're on the subject of Republicans,

we talk to Trump, we talk Cheney. No, in the way that a father feels responsible for having like a warmonger daughter, like your daughter worships violence? Like what? How many daughters worship violence? Not a lot. So if yours is, you know, it's on you.

J.D. Vance. Is he 48? So a lot of the Nazi week was really about attacking JD. Like, how could you, I'm not an advisor to JD fans. By the way, I'm a podcaster, just to be clear. I'm the least fengali-like person you've ever met. I can't plan a birthday dinner. I'm not strategic in my thinking.

I'm the last person you would go to. Like, what do we do? I don't know. So I'm not. No, it's true. And so I don't know what I'm doing tomorrow. So, like, no one asked me for my strategic advice ever, and no one should, including JD.

I have no role in that. But I love J.D. as a man. And I find it amazing. The guilt by association, like you know Tucker Carlson, therefore you're a Nazi too. It's like, again, that's going back for the eighth time to the kind of thinking that will wreck this country and that is not Western, which is collective guilt.

JD didn't do anything. J.D. is the opposite of a Nazi. J.D. is a wonderful, humane person, and a wise person, and above all, a normal person. who understand what's the country. And I hate politicians. You're never going to hear me say that about any politician, probably, other than him. And I've known them all.

Well. And he's an amazing person. So I grieve to think that he is being tarred by guilt by association because I know him. Of course, I hesitate even to say it because I don't want to hurt him, but I, we already heard what I said about him. So I think he's a, and I think he's done such an amazing job for Trump. How'd you like to be vice president? Yeah.

Tough. Is there anybody else who could do it besides JD? you know I don't I don't really know I think there's I think this there's a mad scramble it's never what it's never what they say it's about I think there's a huge scramble I don't think I know because I'm in the middle of it to define what the Republican Party is after Trump that's what it is Trump is not ideological so there's you know what is Maga mean actually well Maga means America First is what it means and so but is this going to be an America First Party or will the Republican Party devolve into revert to

what it was before Trump, which is, you know, libertarian economics, neoconservative foreign policy, pro-censorship, and the pro-censorship people are out in force this week. Like, platform, you can't, you, dad didn't know with the person, never speak again. Like, how is that different from the woke stuff? It's exactly the same.

It's so embarrassing. Oh my gosh. It is. No, it's, it's woke on the right. And then they actually want you to say the thing. I mean, they're doing it to me just because we're friends. I can't imagine what they're doing to JD. It's ridiculous. Are you watching what they did to Kevin Roberts at Heritage because he defended free speech?

Kevin Roberts, do you guys know this piece of the story? Kevin Roberts at the Heritage Foundation came out and defended Tucker because there was a rumor, there was an untrue report that Heritage, Heritage was piling on Tucker after his interview of Nick Poentes and was like canceling Tucker, was going to pull down the Tucker pictures at the Heritage Foundation. So the head of the Heritage Foundation, Kevin Roberts, went on and did a video and said none of that's true. We love Tucker and we're going to continue to support Tucker and we don't really believe

in cancel culture and kind of get off our back. that's a Democrat thing. All hell broke loose at the Heritage Foundation, and they basically forced him to go on sort of an apology tour in the days thereafter, and people are leaving the Heritage Foundation. Now people are, like, judging you, and whether you're leaving the foundation or you're staying there, it's like, all he did was say,

I'm not going to disavow Tucker. I'm not canceling Tucker. I love Tucker, and I believe in free speech, and I don't think we should cancel. This isn't cancellation. It's disavowal. It's, you know, you're normalizing Tucker. Hello, Tucker's been normalized.

he's good. He is normal. He's got his own views on these matters that are very controversial that a lot of people disagree about doesn't make them bad people and they're now dragging him like in Game of Thrones, you know, shame, shame style. They're also scaring the crap out of people. I mean, people I really love and know well have called me and be like, you're a Nazi or I'm never talking to you again. And it's, I'm not even really stung by it. I'm saddened by it. It's very easy to scare people. Very, very easy. I had it to. tonight. Someone came up to me and people are calling you a Nazi and I'm Jewish and I didn't, you know, my friends are saying, how can you meet him? And I'm like, oh, I felt so bad. Because these are sincere people who are not trying to make some political point about the Republican Party. They're like, they have been told that there is someone who's going to hurt them and it scares the crap out of people. I mean it. Like, I think that's evil. And by the way, I've thought a lot about this because I was a TV show host my whole life. And you can scare the

crap out of people on TV. And I've done it, by the way, and I'm ashamed of it. You get out there and you're like, oh, they're coming for you. And like, are they really coming for you? If they're not, don't say that because you have the ability to really whip people into a frenzy. And it hurts them. It makes them unreasonable. Actually, it makes them hateful. Everything about it is bad. And they're doing that in a huge way. I mean, they, some group like is now demanding that heritage of mandatory Shabbat dinners for every heritage employee, because Does that stop one from becoming an anti-Semite? No, it creates it.

I mean, what? And then one kid was like, well, I don't know. I'm not, I'm Catholic. I have a religious observance on Friday night, and they're like, you're an anti-Semite. It's like, dude, you are really playing with fire. This stuff is so bad. It makes people dislike each other. And don't do that.

Why are we doing that? Look, in all seriousness, like the Chala bread, that's enough to make you convert. Honestly, I've eaten so much of it in my life. The brisket and the halah. I had to buy new pants. I used to go over all the time for Shabbat dinner with my Jewish friends in my old building, and it was amazing. I'm not against it.

I'm just saying, like, emphasizing our differences, telling people that everyone hates you, you've seen this happen on the left. That's what identity politics is. It's telling a group, everybody hates you, therefore you have to support us. And by the way, the more they look at you and say that over and over and over and over again,

the more you have to feel they're trying to make you become the thing? Well, yeah, and by the way, luckily I'm not a paranoid person or afraid for my safety just by my temperament. I'm not, but like, they are calling for violence, actually, against me. And what, I mean, Charlie Kirk was just murdered, like, stop. And censorship calls for violence are exactly what we said we were against, like, last month. Okay, let me ask you about this. What is going on? Let's talk just for one minute about Ben Shapiro, because he, too, is under threat. You, I know you both very well. And I also. also really care about Ben.

And you cannot see Ben without six armed guards. He sat on the Daily Wire not long ago, and I think it was a great line. He said, if they kill Matt Walsh, God forbid, everybody will know who did it, some crazed leftists. He said, if they kill me, it'll be like an Agatha Christie novel, like a mystery, where they won't know. Could be alt-right, could be far left. Like, he's got a lot of haters.

And so there was this one brief shining moment after Charlie died where you guys kind of buried the hatchet and you... I called him. I called him and Mark Levin, who I know, well, he's obviously a lunatic, but he's a person. And I didn't want to fight, well, it obviously is, but I didn't want to fight with him at all. And I said to both of them, I called them the day after, or two days after Charlie was killed for my backyard, because I was really thinking about it and praying about it. And I was like, we agree on a lot, like a lot, actually.

And I'm not that interested in the topic of Israel. I would be so glad never to hear the name again. I mean, I would be so glad. I would never mention it again. Let's just, I'm not for more forever wars. Let's just stop that pressure, and I'll never mention it again. I'll never think about it again. You obviously care about it much more than do.

That's fine. But take that off the table, and we agree on a lot. So let's, you know, not attack each other. And they didn't abide by those terms, but that's fine. They were under no obligation. Marklevin was literally attacking you within days of that. I remember when you had that conversation, we talked about it. Within days.

That's fine. I don't care with Mark. He's also out there calling me an anti-Semite. I don't even know what. I know at least what the accusations against you are. I have no idea what I did. Is anyone thinking through the damage this is doing, like downstream? I don't think that Levin, again, there are things that Levin says that I agree with completely.

I don't hate Mark Levin. Enough about him, because he's truly, I mean, Mark Levin, you're like, oh, Mark Levin's angry again. What a shock. But is there any way that you and Ben Shapiro can actually find your way to detente? I'm not against Ben Shapiro. He did like a 40-minute thing yesterday calling me dangerous and all this stuff. It's like, I didn't watch it. why, but I got a lot of texts about it and it's like, I'm not, I don't think Ben Shapiro was

driving a lot of this stuff. I don't consider him like the world's greatest force for evil. I don't feel that way at all. I don't actually think about him ever. So I'm not attacking him. I saw him at Charlie's memorial service backstage, which totally nice. And he looks a lot uncomfortable, but I wasn't uncomfortable. I'm like a lunatic. I was like platt prattling on and telling obscene jokes and all the stuff. And he was totally nice. A little appalled, but nice. And so I don't want to have a war with Ben Shapiro. I don't know if, does he really think that me doing an interview in which I explained that anti-Semitism is wrong to one of the lead purveyors of anti-Semitism, that that somehow makes me a Nazi? Like, what is the argument here?

I'm going to ask him tomorrow night. I don't even understand what the argument is. All I know is that the right, and I've been on the right since before Ben was born, is acting like the left in such an amazingly precise way that I'm like, what the hell is going on? And I tell you this, I'm against that. I was against when the left did it. I'm against censorship. I'm against identity politics, no matter who does it, period, because that violates my principles, and I'll never be on board with that. I don't care if my own kids run for office. If they engage in censorship and identity politics, I'm out. If it's all about their tribe, If this is about who's ever tribe, we're done.

This has to be about our common Americanness. We're all American citizens. And if our politics is not about that, it can't continue, period. One of the things I know about you is in the last few years, you've really leaned into your Christianity. And when reading the Bible, and you've been studying it, you've been getting more and more faithful. So how did that happen? And was it related to, in a weird way, this is kind of a weird left term, but was it all related to leaving Fox and, like, becoming an independent in the journalism world? I wonder if those two things dovetail.

I don't know. You know, I always feel guilty talking about Christianity because I'm such a bad Christian that it's like, oh gosh, I don't want to discredit what I believe in by somehow purporting to speak on behalf of it. So with that caveat, no, it was before I left Fox. And really what happened, I mean, I've, you know, been a baptized Christian my whole life, but I didn't, I lived in a very secular world my whole life and had very secular attitudes, and I still do in some ways. I'm trying to get rid of them. It's hard.

But it was watching, it was while I was still at Fox, and it was watching the nature of politics. And I always thought politics was, I covered it my whole life, I thought it was about what's best for the country or best for people. We have different visions of what's best, right? left has one, right has another. All of a sudden, people are proposing things that under no circumstances could ever be good for people, ever. Just they weren't even bothering to make, it was abortion, really.

Used to be people would be like, well, abortion's sad, but there are cases where, like, are you really going to try and force a 13-year-old to have a baby? And I'd be like, I get it, I get it. All of a sudden people are just like, no, abortion's just good. It's just good to have an abortion. Shout your abortion. We're going to bring an abortion truck

to the Democratic National Convention because more abortion is just good. And I'm like, that's not really politics, actually. that's a kind of religion. That's human sacrifice, actually. Yours telling me that it's just good to have an abortion? And I saw that. It didn't make... And I was trying to understand it in secular terms. Like, who's for that?

Even people were super pro-choice are like, I wouldn't want my... You know, it's sad. But they were not saying that. They were extolling it. They were celebrating it. And I was like, wow, that's spiritual. And there were a lot of issues, the trans issue. I'd always been pretty liberal on that. You want to dress up like a girl, okay?

You look dumb, but I'm not mad about it. I mean, because I grew up in California around a lot of rich liberals and there were some weird behavior and I was like, yeah, whatever. But all of a sudden they're like, no, we have to castrate your kids. And I was like, why would you do that?

So then I just realized that their evil is real, like supernatural evil and that this battle between light and dark that every culture has described, every religion describes in great detail, from the beginning of recorded history, is real. And it's only in my country in the West

since the Second World War that we've just decided we're God and we don't think in those terms and so we're blind to what's actually happening that so much around us is a manifestation of the ongoing, ever-present, eternal, spiritual war between good and evil.

And everyone else in the world knows this except me and I was like, holy smokes, it's real. And then I was like, I hate church because I don't trust any religious leaders because I know too many of them. And so I'm just going to, which is totally unfair, by the way, but that was my thought. Like, you know, I know these people, no thanks.

and my own church had become totally pagan and crazy. So I was like, I'm just going to read the Bible at home and just, like, read the whole thing. Like I would read War and Peace or Anna Karenina, and I'd just like, cover to cover. It took me a year and a half. And I'm going to see what's in it. And it just blew my freaking mind. I was like, wow, it's real. I can't believe this.

I'd never read it. I'd never read the whole thing. I'd read, like, you know, whatever the, and the greatest of these is love. And, you know, because I've been a lot of weddings, but I'd never just, like, gone Genesis to Revelation. And that is like the central text in our civilization, and I hadn't read it, and I'm a reader. I love to read. I don't know how that happened, but that completely changed my life. And now I like send Bibles to people, like some kind of street preacher.

It was funny because I started... Have you read the Bible? They're like, what? Get away from me. A couple of years ago, I started, you know, the podcast, Bible in a year? Father Mike Schmitz, love him. Susie does that. I love it.

It's very helpful. It's a great way to go through it. I think he's brilliant, and, you know, starts Old Testament. And we were in some chapters there where the kids would walk into the room and you'd be like, following him down, down, down, down, down, down, down. It was worse than the datelines. I put the dayline on, they could listen to that. But some of the stuff in the Old Testament, you know, there's some stories in there that are kind of disturbing.

Kind of rattled my cage. Yeah. Like, I was shocked by some of that. Yeah. It was like, I needed a, you know, a warning on the audio tape. but you had a story on somebody else's podcast that completely caught my attention which you said you think you were attacked by a demon and I have to tell you like a lot of people mock this they roll their eyes but I look at like what happened to Charlie

what happened in the wake of Charlie what happened at the Ascension School in Minneapolis where that man went in there and shot a bunch of little children praying at their church school and I challenge anyone to tell me there aren't demons among us I never thought there were I thought it was I thought the whole thing was like bizarre because what happened

because like culturally I'm just not from a world where people are attacked by demons and in fact when it happened the next morning when I saw the blood on my sheets I was like I actually called someone who works for me who's a very sincere lifelong evangelical and I'm like have you heard of this and she's like oh yeah it happens all the time I was like what

not to Episcopalians it doesn't stuff it down yeah no it was it was well yeah I mean I'm not embarrassed at all and I don't care if I'm mocked don't get anything out of making this up and I'm not making it up what happened I was I had this crazy experience where I was in the truck with someone coming back from quail hunting and I had all of a sudden this we were talking about someone I despise and all of a sudden I had this crazy empathy for the person like really intense empathy like it could understand why this person was doing these horrible things and I said to the person that the truck. There's a family dispute, right? So I was, said to the person, maybe my brother,

and I said, I think I know what's happening here. This person feels this way, that way, this way. And my brother goes, how did you know that? I said, I don't know it. Just like, and my brother goes, I think, like, God is like speaking through you or something. And I felt total true empathy for this person I truly hate. It was like the craziest thing has ever happened to me. I have no idea where it came from. My brother's like, I think that's from God. Like, there's no way you could. It's like, well, that's kind of wild. So then I get home. this huge dinner party, which I always have dinner parties, and I forget about it. And I'm telling you this because they're twinned, the one leads to the other. I had this thing profound experience

with God, like profound and beautiful and unexpected. And then I go to bed with my wife and four dogs who sleep in the bed. My wife said four children, my dogs are hunting dogs. All five of them wake up like that. Like they, you know, they are, we have no home invaders in my house. I wake up at 2.30 in the morning, I checked my, and I couldn't breathe at all. My throat was closed. It wasn't like I was apnea or was strong as I couldn't breathe, so I get up. I stand in the doorway of our bedroom and I'm like, wow, I'm dying. I could feel myself starting to gray out. And then I started walking in the backyard and then it slowly came back. Like my throat kind of opened up a little bit. I was like really weirded out. I walk back in and my wife wakes up. She goes,

what is going on? I said, I don't know. I can't breathe. I feel better now. And all of a sudden had this horrible pain underneath my arms, like on the side of my chest, like bad. I thought I'd been, like, ripped with a knife or something. It just was very intense. So I go into the bathroom, I flip on the light, and I have claw marks on both sides, on right and left side on my ribs, and they're bleeding, and they're literally claw marks, you know, four on either side. I put my fingers and don't fit my fingers, and I sleep on my side. So how could, and by the way, if I, No one woke up. So I show my wife and she's like, oh my gosh.

And then I have this like crazy intense desire to read the Bible. So I read the Bible and I pass out in like two minutes and I wake up the next morning. I thought, man, did I have a wild dream? And then I see blood in my sheets and I go in the bathroom and I have these bloody marks. And my wife goes, I think you were attacked by some supernatural being. And I was like trying to be logical about it. And I was like, yeah, I definitely was. and then I called one of my producers.

He was like, oh, yeah, that's pretty common. I was like, what? And I've had a couple other experiences, not that crazy, but where you really feel God's presence, which is marked by peace and true empathy, love for other people, which doesn't come naturally to me. I'm kind of a dick, obviously.

But you know it when God is acting through you, and then they're followed by some, wild attack. Like, why? I've had a couple of things. It's just like, well, anyway, I'm not an expert in this. I'm hardly a theologian. Of course.

I would never pretend to be an expert in anything. I can only say what happened to me. It was 100% real. And it completely changed my view of the world. What did you learn from your conversation with Lee Strobel, who wrote a book on The Supernatural and who also wrote the case for Christ? Many of you guys recommended that book to me, and it really was amazing. And Lee Strobel came on your story.

show in September on his new book, which is about the supernatural. It's about miracles, it's about angels, it's about demons. It's a great read. But was there something in there that spoke to you? Everything about it. I mean, I grew up in a church, I'll just admit it, was shame in the Episcopal Church, where all the supernatural stuff was at was taken out. And at a certain stage in my life, I was like, why am I going to church? I love hanging in bed with my wife and dogs on Sunday morning. Like, why am I? And we wear ties to church. Like, why am I doing this? There's nothing in here that's like, be nice to your name. neighbor, okay. Like, if it's not supernatural, then what's the point? And when I read the Bible,

it's like, it is about the supernatural. Like, that's the whole story. It's true. It's like God intervenes supernaturally, bigger than above nature. And that's why it's different from every other book. And the New Testament, especially, is filled with Jesus casting out demons. I literally didn't know that. I knew there was the, you know, crazy guy in the cemetery, who broke his chains, but I didn't really realize that not only was Jesus, but also disciples were cast. casting out demons that were possessing people and causing them to hurt themselves. And as someone who had, you know, a drug and alcohol problem, like I know kind of that weird, I've seen it a lot, and others also, that weird desire to harm yourself.

By the way, there's a reason they call it his demons. He's fighting his demons. It is totally real, because ultimately evil, we always think of evil as like something that like diabolical people do to gain, like I'm screwing you, I'm killing you so I can take your gold. But what we never acknowledge is true, which is evil flows through people and destroys the people, not just the victims, but also the person through whom it flows. People who are possessed by evil are themselves destroyed every single time. And of course, I've lived a life, so I've seen a lot of that.

And now, in retrospect, I understand what it was. And so much of what we experience is from outside of ourselves. We are acted upon constantly, constantly by the spiritual realm. And Lee Strobel just affirmed what I was beginning to realize, which is we are the subject of massive supernatural influence all the time. And every other civilization from the beginning of time has acknowledged this and written about it and left artifacts that point to that belief. And only in the last 80 years have we just foreclosed that possibility. And we've embraced the dumbest religion ever created, Scientism, which is like, oh, I can't. measure that. It's not real. Oh, shut up. Yeah. Right. That's like insane, actually. When you say it out loud,

but that is our state religion. It's mandated, by the way. If you don't believe it, you can't serve in high office. You're mocked. You're literally disqualified from professions. If you don't embrace scientism, which is like the fakesest thing ever invented. Like, I would always, like, as a kid study these weird religions. I'm like, that's insane. Nothing is as insane as scientism. And so once you discard it and you're like yeah it's nice to measure things in a lab is that the sum total of truth obviously not what is true then you realize like holy smokes the spiritual battle is totally real and we we are the subjects of it and that will lead us to UFOs all right now i know you're into this topic and i know you know people who know a lot about this topic and who may not be

able to provide everything they know in a public setting. So what do we know? Well, I mean, we know beyond question that there are objects and phenomena aerial and undersea that can't be explained by science and that seem to defy the laws, well, measurably defy the laws of physics and that are not experimental aircraft created by DARPA or the DOD or by the Russians or the Chinese. Like, we know that, there have been many testimonies to this effect under oath in the Congress in the last two years. So, like, that's not even a question. Are they real?

Well, obviously, they're real. What are they as the question? And I've been down the rabbit hole on this. And just because of my job, the one upside to having a gig like this, as you all know, is if you're curious about something, you actually have access to people who know or say they know. And he just call them up and be like, hey, come to my house, tell me what you know. I'm working on a story about it. I've never done really a story on this because I came to a hard and fast conclusion on it, which I can't.

can't prove, but I sincerely believe it, which is that these are spiritual phenomenon, obviously. They've been here forever. There's a lot of evidence of that in the written record going back thousands of years. They're angels and demons, of course. And that would be obvious and was obvious to everyone else. What's so interesting, one of the reasons that this topic will drive you crazy and why I opted out and do no research and talk to no one about it, I'm out, I know what I think, I don't want to know anymore, is because there is such, and this is a matter of record, a concerted decades-long disinformation campaign by the U.S. government to obscure what's happening. And if you look at that, and I grew up the son of a federal employee in a world

where there's a lot of this stuff, so I do know a lot about this. And one of the ways to discredit the truth is by flooding the zone with lies. So rather than just denying UFOs are not real, well, you can't deny that anymore, they are real. What you do is you create a bunch of fake stories leading people in the wrong direction. You flood the zone. There's so many conspiracy theories that no one believes anything. But the way to know what the truth is

is by figuring out what they're trying to prevent you from believing. And if you look at the U.S. government propaganda, DOD propaganda, on the question of UFOs, UAPs, the one thread that connects all of it is that these are not supernatural. These are little green men from Mars.

Their weather phenomenon, they're experimental aircraft. the one thing that they don't want you to believe is that they are spiritual entities. Why would that be so threatening to them? Well, that's a great question. That is the question. And there's an awful lot of thinking on this matter,

and I don't know the answer. And I have theories on it. I don't have a firm belief on it. There's certainly an awful lot of highly informed speculation that there are very dark reasons that they don't want because they're participating in it. There have been technology transfers that are, you know, know, consistent with what we know about spiritual forces, which is always a deal, you know,

bow down before me and all of this will be yours. I mean, it's kind of the core story in the New Testament, and it's the template for our own lives. In fact, we face this all the time in our own lives. You don't need to be interested in UFOs to recognize that so many times you reach a juncture in your life, in my life, where it's like, I could do this and I would get a lot out of it. I'd become more powerful, get to have sex with someone I want to have sex with, become richer. if only I violate what I believe, if only I bow down and worship you.

And there is a lot of informed speculation that the U.S. government has participated in this and the defense technology, in particular nuclear technology, is the product of that. And I don't know if that's true. I will say one extremely interesting thing that no one seems to know

is that it's not exactly where nuclear technology came from. But who would we be cutting a deal with in this scenario? So that's why I don't speculate about it, because I don't know the answer, obviously, you know, what we're seeing these phenomena are spiritual phenomenon. And one of the reasons that I came to that conclusion was because of an incredibly kooky story that's not kooky at all, it's 100% real, which is cattle mutilations. And cattle mutilations are a consistent feature of life in the West, not just

in the United States, been going back hundreds of years in Europe. Farmers would find their cattle, their sheep, slain and dismembered in a way that no butcher could replicate and drained of all of their blood. And clearly, this is a ritual sacrifice of an animal, which is described in not just the Old Testament, but many sacred texts and many religions. And it was the basis, of course, of all of the ancient human sacrifice cults, which were like in every country, not just in Latin America, but my ancestors, you know, the Norse sacrifice people. So, like, sacrificing people or animals to please the gods is the one consistent feature of all religion going back to the beginning of recorded history.

And why is that? Because there's something there. Why would people on continents, separated by oceans, they could not traverse, reach the same conclusion about the nature of the spiritual realm, the exact same conclusion, if they weren't responding to something that was actually real? Well, of course, they were. And so there is something about Christianity is the, fundamentally, the story of the sacrifice of Jesus

on the cross tortured to death to atone for human sin and of course biblical Judaism is the story of sacrifice to do the same so anyway whatever cattle mutilations are ritual sacrifice clearly and what is that who's doing it like and if

the more I did a documentary on it and my whole staff was like now you're freaking crazy cattle mutilations well turn out the FBI investigated it twice because the value of the livestock killed was so high that ranchers in Idaho complained to the FBI. We didn't an investigation.

Senators got involved. There's a lot written on this. And it's like, well, what is that? Well, the one thing the U.S. government was absolutely intent on you not thinking was that this was some kind of ritual sacrifice. Fascinating. So I don't know. Are you in a place now where you feel free to do whatever the hell you want? Does it seem like I do?

Yes, it does seem like it. I just went on about cattle mutilations without any embarrassment. I told you I got attacked by a demon. Because I did. Okay, you don't have to believe me, but that happened. Before I came out here, there's a video, like a sizzle reel of some of what I'm doing now, and you had a sizzle reel. And one of the things in that reel was me wearing this shirt that reads free, free, free.

And I did put it on and took a picture of it just before I launched this show. And you and I had a conversation not long after I was doing this. You were still at Fox. And this is before they unceremoniously booted you out of there for absolutely no reason whatsoever. Oh, thank you, God. exactly but but before that happened you and I talked and I said you got to get out of there and you got to come over to this lane you got to come independent like you can say whatever you want and you're you're envisioning what life could be like then and whether you'd be

happy doing something that's not live and not like you know you're sort of on point every night and I look at you now you seem happier than ever to me oh totally and you are such inspiration to me. Without getting into like inside TV, TV's its own like biosphere. Like when you work in television, like you don't know anyone outside of time. Like your whole world is this thing, right? And it's a whole, it's not hard like stringing electrical lines, okay, but it's a pretty all-absorbing gig, right?

You're putting on a show, you're in charge of a show for an hour, five days a week, like it's a lot. And you just lose perspective. And it was a article of faith. It was in the catechism and television that if you leave. leave a big network, like, that's it for you. You're doing infomercials at best, buddy, with wife number three, like, you're S-O-L. And, oh, I've known, like, only, like, a hundred people that happened to, so everyone knows that's what happened. And then you had, like, the craziest career.

I wouldn't even get into it, but, like, that was, like, unbelievable. And you were such an incredible advocate for me at Fox and such a loyal friend in the way that nobody else in the whole channel ever was. So I was, of course, like, very closely watching what was happening. to you and what NBC did was like one of the worst things I've ever seen them do to anybody and that's saying a lot and then you like became this like even bigger happier and we talked on the phone obviously a lot about it and you were like this is amazing and you were the first person ever to kind of beat the law like you didn't go away you got bigger and you're way happier and you're beholden to no one I was like that's the most in and especially after I'm not even

It's like what he said about Usha Vance. I don't even want to repeat what NBC did to you, but what they did to you was like, it was like an assault. It was insane. And you just like shook it off and built this thing. And I was like, man, it is possible. But then I couldn't get out of my contract, of course.

And I was thinking about how to get out. And then God intervened and this had them fire me for no reason. And I called my wife. She was walking our many dogs. And I was like, the president of Fox, I won't name her, Suzanne Scott, just called me. And she just fired me, and I had the biggest show in all of cable TV. Huge.

And my wife's like, why? And I said, I don't know, man, it was weird. She wouldn't tell me. And my wife goes, thank you, God. Literally, it's the first thing she said. I was like, wow, she knew. She's very faithful, in-tune person, and she knew this was the greatest blessing, and it really was.

And within, like, 10 minutes, I was sad about our staff, but they came with me, and they're one's right there. And they were great people. And so it was within like 10 minutes, I was in a good mood. And I haven't stopped. Even during Nazi week, I was in a good mood. What's the biggest difference in your life? You don't, like I never, like you, like you were huge at Fox. So like they weren't messing with you. Like you could do whatever you. I mean, I'm just guessing. Well, I think I know it's true. They didn't want to mess with you. And they never mess with me. Not one time did they tell me what to say. I would always say, if you don't like what I say, just fire me, okay?

The exercise of the option in the end, but it wasn't that. It wasn't, like, I never went to any meeting. I never went to one meeting of any kind in 15 years of Foxstone, one meeting, because I don't like meetings. You didn't get dragged into the mandatory sexual harassment training. We all had to do after Bill O'Reilly. I worked at NBC. There's nothing about sexual harassment you can tell me.

Like, I've seen it. At Fox, they used to joke that people were using it for tips. No, it's totally right. And, no, I never participated in that. I found it totally insulting. I just refused and they just, or the COVID, they tried to make all my staff take the COVID jab. And I was like, no, I'll quit if you do that.

And so they were, they were nice to me. They tried to, one time they tried to make me denounce somebody. And I was like, how about no? And they're like, okay, okay. So it wasn't that they, they were weak. But I could still, I didn't realize the degree to which I could sort of picture like some kind of like grumpy standards person standing in the, control room during my show, harumphing, as I said, something forbidden. And that does kind of, like,

get in your head a little bit. I didn't even realize. I thought I was totally free, but I wasn't. And when I left, I was like, man, I can say whatever I want. And actually, it made me feel less angry, you know, like less just mad. I'm not, I'm way less mad. Yes, I completely relate to that. I have to tell you, it took me a while. Like, I always said, Fox, you know, got a lot of great gifts out of Fox, no question. But it is like a cult. And it takes a while. And it takes a after leaving the cult to realize that you were in a cult. And one of the first signs that you're out of the cult is you do start feeling free, free, free. And you are lighter in your, just in your body, in your step, and your approach to life.

And before you know what this thing creeps over you, and I think they call it happiness. It's amazing. It comes upon you, and you don't realize, like, because you know this very well, as well as I do, the life of a cable news primetime anchor is an embattled life. Oh, man. It is constant. and it is toxic. It really is a nonstop toxicity, and you do what you can to shield yourself from it, but it's just nonstop. It comes from inside the building, comes from outside the building,

comes from your side, comes from the other side. You're not seeing your family. It requires an enormous commitment of hours, and you are winning, and you're making money, and you're powerful, and you're miserable. And it's truly like the fact that you can now make it in this independent lane where you can have a direct relationship with the public. where you can be known, where you can have a talk like this, where you can say, I don't like being called these names.

This is what I was trying to do. We can go on for an hour and a half. This is a show that we're taping right now. It's going to air tomorrow. And people will listen. They'll listen to an hour and a half of this. They'll listen to the stuff about the demons and the UFOs. Because these conversations are searching and they're earnest.

There's room for thought and development and exploration and saying, wait, I think I was wrong. And now you've changed my mind. Oh, great. I'm less wrong today than I was yesterday. all of that can happen in this forum and not in the other, and all of it is part of being free, free, free. Totally.

That is such a beautiful description of it. It is a cult. There are great things about it. I saw the world and met fascinating people and had a great time. I punched out years ago and moved to Maine, and I didn't want to go to their dumb newsroom and do their dumb sexual harassment. I'm arrived, unconscious racism.

Yeah, I'm out. I'm such a rule follower. I went to all of them. No, I was like, no, leave me alone. When they fired Ali North and turned his office into a Muslim prayer room, I was like, no, I, I'm, yeah. Seriously? Yeah, and I'm moving to Maine. Oh, my God.

But anyway, so it wasn't that. It was, I really thought it was, like, important. It's almost like, when I was a kid, you'd see pictures of, like, people, like, your parents in the early 70s, and they had, like, the long freedom strips and the weird haircut and the polyester shirts with a super long collars. And you'd be like, God, they look like such tools. Did they know how absurd they looked?

Do you know what I mean? And that's how I feel about television. Like, it's so dumb. I never watched it. We never had television. We never watched television anyway at all. We were always against television. But I always thought, well, this is so impressive.

And it's like, no, it's all so fake. It's also stupid. No one's being fully honest. Like, also, no one's watching. Who cares? What's on the cable TV? And when I left, they're like, well, you can never do cable TV. And I was like, yeah, oh, really?

Damn. You know, it's like, why would I ever do that? I can't believe I spent so much time doing that. I felt so embarrassed. Right. Oh, good evening. Welcome to my stupid show. It's so pompous.

Yes. And I was so pompous. It does feel stupid. When you've left it, it feels a little dumb. I can't believe I did that. I tried to take the, you know, bombing of Iran and reduce it to a four-minute segment. Like, what a disembate. service that we do to the audience.

You end up talking about things you know nothing about. That is the great joy in having the job that I have now. I hope I have it forever because you choose what you talk about. And I don't like talking about things I don't understand. And I just don't. And you in television, you have no choice. Like this happens. It's the news of the day. And ultimately our show was like obviously not like other shows and it got big enough that

I was just like, I'm not doing the news the day. I'm doing the news I want to do because I don't want to talk about stuff I don't understand. Yeah. All right. I want to ended on this. There are a lot, we spend a minute earlier on young men. And I have two young men in my house, and a daughter too. My kids are 16, 14, and 12. The oldest and the youngest are boys. And tonight we have a bunch of young men who are in high school with my oldest, and some young women too. And I'm still worried about them. And so these young guys who are here tonight, They were thrown out merch to the audience earlier.

What do you want these young guys to know? Oh, thank you. That's sweet. What do you want these young guys to know about their future as young men in America? I want them to know that society can't exist without you. You're essential. And you've been told the opposite in subtle and explicit ways that you're not needed and that your innate qualities, your basic nature,

is somehow offensive and that's a lie and it's destroyed you know I'm not passing the buck like if you know there are a lot of things that young men do that I did that are just their fault I was always telling my kids no I think it's your fault you know

I'm big on blaming kids but it's also true that we're the product of the society that we grew up in to some great extent and the message to young men has been like yeah we don't really need you like what you're designed to do act with certainty and a

expression, make decisions, create, you know, express your feelings physically. You know, these are all verboten. And so I just think it's really important to say to men, no, you're absolutely vital. And to say to men about women that men and women need each other, they were created for each other. And I know that there are so many impediments to finding the right person. And I know that because I talk to young men and young women a lot because I really care about the topic. And I find that young men are very hostile to young women. women are very contemptuous of young men, and it breaks my heart. You know, the symbiosis that is

necessary for growth, the most basic growth in life between a man and a woman, it's the center of everything. We're created for it. All mammals are. Has been really poisoned, and it makes me sad, but I just want, and I'm not quite sure how to fix it, by the way. I don't have a simple solution, but I think it starts with telling the truth, which is that men and women were designed for each other, and when they are together, in harmony, they create a whole. That is true. A whole, W-H-O-L-E. And so that is absolutely essential.

It has been, everything good in my life comes from my wife and my relationship with my wife. And that's not like some, I've got the best wife in the world. No, that's real. Though I do. But it's not even that. It's like no man can fully become himself without a woman, and no woman can become fully herself without a man. They need each other.

And the most poisonous lie I ever told was told in about 1965 that women just don't need men. And then at some point, men decided they don't need women. And that's when things really fall apart. It's like so basic. And without getting too personal, I know something about your personal life and you have a balanced, happy personal life. At the core of your life is your family, not in some sentimental BS way, but in a real way, a day-to-day way. And that is your strength. I've just seen it.

and I know that that's true for me. I'm not embarrassed at all. And so finding that is the most important thing. And all good things flow from it, beginning with, and primarily most importantly, children, but also as someone whose children are all grown, every other good thing. So whatever you can do to do that is so,

and when you find it, do not dick around. Don't dick around. And maybe you're 40 when you find it. You can't, you know, it's one of those things you have to find. But when you do find it, I found it at 15. I don't want to get married at 22, which I did, but I was totally an idiot in every way, but part of me was like, I even said to my girlfriend at the time, like, I don't want to get married. What? But if we don't get married,

I'll like run into you in some airport 20 years from now. We'll both be married and we'll commit adultery. And I want to kind of cut out the middleman in this. Like, I had no choice. I found the right girl, right? And I'm not from a cultural where people get married at 22, like, at all. That was like, what? Are you from Appalachia? Like, what are you doing? But I did because it just happened. So that would be my advice. When you find the right woman as a young man, that is the most important thing. So pursue that single-mindedly.

That's great advice. It's amazing. I'll tell you quickly, Tucker's executive producer at the time told me he'd been on the road a lot. We saw each other at a Turning Point event a couple years back. And he told me when Tucker's unhappy, whenever he gets unhappy, he said it's rare. and we're on the road traveling we know exactly what you do Susie needs to come she needs to come be with him yeah we call it the celibacy rule

and I would it was the yeah I would always say like I'm not it's just not good for it's not I'm just totally joking sort of not really but in part about that but no it's just the balance you need the balance like that is you're just out of whack right you're not meant man is not meant to be alone and neither is a woman and that's just a fact and I don't know why I think it's

very sinister, by the way, that we tell young people and old people and all people that that's not true. Like, you're better off alone, really? In what world are you better off alone? And it's just such an easy society to live in. That's changing. I think things are getting crazy. And all of a sudden, I'm going to be like, actually, we kind of need men. A lot of home invasions recently. I need a man. You know, like, it'll become obvious men's utility, I think, soon. Yeah. But for the past 80 years, it's been like, well, maybe it's just more efficient to be alone. You know what I mean? Like, you're a much better city bank employee if you don't have dependence or whatever the thinking was but it's really hurt a lot of people no when we launched the

tour and we started two weekends ago right we would start out in new texas um and and Doug and I talked about like do I go alone like should should the family come do you want to come like kids at school and Doug said I want to come for the first leg at least you know I want to see like I want to make sure everything's safe want to want to see what this feels like and he did he came with us through Texas and um he's here tonight and my kids are here tonight too and uh I know they wanted to to meet all of you. And we both felt so much better, you know, because the first weekend out, it was a little disconcerting because we didn't know, is the security going to be okay?

Is the audience going to be okay? Like, is everything safe? Obviously, we're all still thinking about Charlie. And I have to say, like, Doug felt much better, seeing how it was all being handled. Sorry for all the security he had to go through. And I felt much better just having him with me. And if you can find love in your life, it's just, of course, you get the benefits of love and connection and family, children, raising.

kids together, but you also get the benefits of in those tougher times or where you're uncertain or you're unsteady. You've got this life partner who's got you, you know, who's just got you. And I love that you have that. I want all of you to have that. I want you boys and girls to have that. And I love all of you for having me too. Thank you. Thanks for being here. Thank you, Tucker Carlson. Love you. You're the best. Thank you, Megan. Thank you. God bless you guys. Thank you. We'll see tomorrow on the show. Thanks for listening to The Megan Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.