The Megyn Kelly Show - What the Silicon Valley Bank Collapse Means for the U.S. Economy, Whether Tom Brady Will Un-Retire…Again, with Steve Forbes and Marcellus Wiley | Ep. 511

Episode Date: March 14, 2023

Megyn Kelly is joined by Steve Forbes, Chairman and Editor-in-Chief of Forbes Media, to discuss the latest on the Silicon Valley Bank collapse, how it can affect the U.S. economy, and more. Plus, Marcellus Wiley, former NFL star and host of "More To It,” joins to discuss Michael Irvin refiling his $100 million defamation lawsuit against Marriott, the latest on Tiger Woods after his ex-girlfriend alluded to sexual assault in legal filings, why public figures are a target for false accusations, the rumors that Tom Brady will un-retire, why it's so hard for athletes to call it quits, what Gisele Bundchen has been up to, trans issues in women’s sports, how Colin Kaepernick used his fame to bash his parents with his new book, and more. Forbes: https://www.forbes.com/sites/steveforbes/?sh=80c090ae726eWiley: https://www.youtube.com/@marcelluswiley6255 Follow The Megyn Kelly Show on all social platforms: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/MegynKellyTwitter: http://Twitter.com/MegynKellyShowInstagram: http://Instagram.com/MegynKellyShowFacebook: http://Facebook.com/MegynKellyShow Find out more information at: https://www.devilmaycaremedia.com/megynkellyshow

Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations. Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live from Montana for day two. Coming up, an in-depth conversation with former NFL star Marcellus Wiley. Looking forward to talking to him. He is not afraid to touch any topic. He's just as bold when it comes to his commentary as he was on the football field. And you will hear from him in just a moment. We're going to talk about the latest on Tom Brady. Is he unretiring?

Colin Kaepernick hitting his own parents as racists? You can always count on that guy to take the high road. And the issue of transgender athletes. An update for you on that Vermont school that refused to have its girls play against other teams. Another team in Vermont that had a transgender player on it. Guess how they're being punished. We'll get to it all. So, but first, we're going to take a look at where things stand today after the collapse of Silicon Valley Bank. Wall Street and bank stocks look a little more stable today,

but the Consumer Price Index report for February showed prices remaining stubbornly high, and that could mean more interest rate hikes, which is in part how Silicon Valley Bank got into the trouble it was in. Fed Chairman Jerome Powell, you know, there's questions about whether he knows what he's doing. Our next guest says

he's clueless on what to do about all of this. And that guest is Steve Forbes. He's chairman and editor in chief of Forbes Media. Steve, great to see you again. How are you doing? Good to be with you. Thank you. Right now, I'd rather be in Montana than some other parts of the country. I have to say it's pretty gorgeous out here. And the latest was we're expecting possibly 30 inches of snow over the next 24 hours. So just another day in Montana. Yes. Well, character building. That's right. Out here with the fam and the kids are on spring break. So, but I'm still at it and I'm glad I am because this SVP problem is pretty pernicious and very smart. People are in deep disagreement on what is the proper course here.

We had a great debate yesterday with David Sachs and Vivek Ramaswamy on whether this bailout or whatever you want to call it was proper. But now we're learning more about the bank and there's more in-depth look in some publications. National Review had a good piece today talking about how these are very elite investors who are in this SVP, for the most part, and they did not deserve a bailout. And they knew exactly what they were getting themselves into. And why should we save them from the consequences of their bad decision making? As we find out, this bank was super focused on woke initiatives. And for the past eight months or eight of the past 12 or 15 months, didn't even have a person in the risk management department overseeing risk. Nobody was making sure that when you kick the tires, they had air in them. They were more worried about, is the seat made of vegan leather? Have we made sure

under the hood is as green as possible? And so I sense a growing resentment in some corners for the fact that they were saved at all. Where do you stand on it? Well, a couple of things. One is, in terms of the bank itself, they violated the basic rule of banking, which you learn in the first day in class in business school in the banking course, and that is the danger of mismatching assets and liabilities. As you know, deposits can be withdrawn instantly. Long-term assets, not so much. They may be valuable, but if they have a longer maturity and people want their cash, you have a problem. And so they mismatched their book. They had, for example, 10 years of mortgages worth $80 billion yielding 1.8%. If you're going to go out long-term to get a higher yield, you better insure that,

what they call hedging. They didn't do that. So that's another gross violation of simple banking. You're going out long term, you cover yourself, you get insurance in effect. So if something does go wrong, you recover most of the money instantly. They didn't do that. And so for over a year, the Federal Reserve has made very clear interest rates were going up. Banks and others had plenty of time to get their books in order to reflect the new reality that a generation of zero interest rates was coming to an end. So the bank management is going to be rightly roasted on that. But the reason that one thing to keep in mind, though, the reason everyone focuses on the rich people in Silicon Valley, the reason the bank did so well is it provided unique services to startup companies.

You got better service there, better people understood what your business was. Valley. The reason the bank did so well is it provided unique services to startup companies. You got better service there, better people understood what your business was, better than any other bank in the country. That's why it grew so rapidly. The danger came, and this is where you get to the government's role in this disaster, was when the Federal Reserve started to print a lot of money. You had the lockdowns. It's also created inflation. And so in the last couple of years, the bank's deposits almost quadrupled, went from 50 some odd billion to over 180 billion. There's no way human beings can put that much money to work productively. So what a normal bank would do is you buy short-term treasuries. They instead went out on the yield curve, as they say, trying to get yield.

And so 1.8% for 10 years a few months ago might have looked good, but you can get almost 4%, 3.5%, 4% on a 10-year treasury today. So they're bonds to be hit. Book losses. Book losses. So they get their knuckles wrapped there. And the idea that they're going to be able to keep any bonuses they paid for themselves, that's going to be clawed back instantly. The other thing to keep in mind, though, is that we have to examine, and I think the Republicans will examine, is what's happening with the FDIC. This bank had enough assets, had a very good book of loans that they could have sold themselves very easily or taken in a Warren Buffett or a venture capitalist who would have put in equity. Shareholders would have taken a huge hit, but at least you'd have

had a bank around. And what did the FDIC drag its feet on finding a buyer, even though there are plenty around who knew the Silicon Valley Bank would have been glad to pick up pieces of it. And they did the same thing with Signature Bank in New York. So the FDIC, it looks like, was playing games in terms of bank consolidations. They don't like bigness, so they may have dragged their feet on that. So there's plenty of blame to go around. But we have to keep in mind, though, is if this bank had actually gone down, you would have had a domino effect on the rest of the economy, on the banking system. Innocent banks would have been dragged under, or the feds would have had to put up literally hundreds of billions, if not trillions, to shore up the banking system because

everyone would have been withdrawing their deposits. I remember back in 2008 when one money fund broke the buck, so to speak, instead of being valued at a dollar, lost a few cents because they made the same kind of mistake Silicon Valley Bank made. They went for yield instead of safety. And the whole money market fund industry suddenly was hit with the equivalent of a modern bank run. And so the Fed ended up having to backstop every, for a while, every money market fund to prevent a collapse going into the financial equivalent of cardiac arrest. So the making sure you didn't have this hit the rest of the financial system was a good thing. And the thing to keep in mind, too, which is why we're not going to be like 2008 in the particulars, is that the banking system today has more capital, more

reserves than they've ever had before. They're brimming with reserves. Let me jump in. I get it. I get that. But why? Because one of the things Vivek was saying was, OK, so we need to promise that we're going to guarantee people's investments or their deposits at their banks more than 250,000.

So the FDIC can step in now and say, God, terrible thing that happened at a Silicon Valley bank. But don't worry, we won't let that happen to you if you're at a small to midsize regional bank. We're going to up the insurance that everybody has. But bye to Silicon Valley Bank. His point was, why are we saving them we can we can restore consumer confidence in banks including small ones and mid ones um just by offering a new guarantee

we do not have to save this bank from the consequences of its bad decision making well uh you would take down then uh hundreds of startups that had their cash uh parked there and at a time why do we care we're- Why do we care? But why do we care, Steve? Because like the argument is, and I'm not taking a position on it, but the argument is these are smart investors. They made the decision.

They put their money where they put it. And the other argument was most of these, as you pointed out, are startups backed by VC firms. And so if the VC firms wanted to save these companies, they could. But if the money's parked at a bank that is going under, that becomes problematical. We're at a time when we want more startups, not fewer. And in terms of the bank itself, the banking system, as you know, is closely interrelated. And so making sure this bank failure did not ricochet to the rest of the banking system is a smart decision.

Again, the good thing they did was they wiped out the shareholders, wiped out the unsecured debtors, security holders, and management is going to get it. I guarantee you on the management, unlike what happened after 2008, this management is going to go over the skewers and they're not going to be allowed to keep any of the money they've taken out in recent weeks. So in terms of the bank itself, the VCs had their money parked in the bank. So if you can't access that cash, you've got a lot of the startups that are going to go down at a time when we want more startups. We're in a technological race with China. So I think in terms of the bank itself, you can do, you could have actually in terms of saving the bank. Again, there are a lot of assets there that other banks would have been gladly willing to buy. And why the fdic

it was mishandled well wait you want to blame the s you want to blame the fdic we wouldn't but wait wait wait wait it works better if it's back and forth so you want to blame the fdic but what about the ceo of the bank because there's a report today as cnn citing well let me let me tee it up steve let me see it okay that it. That some of the employees are very angry with this CEO. He's now been removed, Greg Becker, for making it public in the first place that they were facing a two point two five billion dollar shortfall that they needed to raise that kind of money. Why would he say it publicly, which in part caused the run on the bank rather than just raising it privately, rather than going to some other bank privately and saying, do you want to save Silicon Valley Bank with this money? Well, that's right. And so it's as I mentioned earlier, it's both sides. Management made huge mistakes and not hedging, ensuring if they decide to go out long and try for yield. And in terms of the rescue last week, again, there are plenty of

people willing to buy that bank. But this guy, Becker and his team, chose to act like deer in the headlights. So they bear a large responsibility. Again, the bank has a lot of great assets, and there have been a lot of people out there who know how to deal with these things who have been glad to buy into them. Just like Warren Buffett saved General Electric and some other companies in 2008, you paid a price for it, but you got rescued. And the amount of money they needed to make up their equity shortfall was peanuts compared to what the losses that ended up happening. So bank management deserves a lot of the blame. There was no reason why they couldn't have just quietly said to the

regulators and to VCs and to other banks, we got a short-term problem. It's going to cost X billion. And there have been plenty of people at the right price who have been quite willing to step in and buy and do what it took to prevent a massive failure. And this, though, gets to what the FDIC did. Why didn't they try to facilitate that instead of dragging their feet? So there's a lot of blame to go around. And ultimately, ultimately getting beyond the particulars of this disaster is why were the central banks of the world and our Treasury Department for years having a policy of no interest rates? And when you distort the market, we all know what happens when you have

rent control. Larry Summers once said rather indelicately, there are two ways to destroy a city. One is to bomb it, and the other is to put in rent control. And what the central banks did after 2008 was they put in the equivalent of rent control and interest rates, sent them to levels they've never seen before in human history. That's had two consequences, which is why I'm worried about the future short term. A lot of countries went heavily, heavily in debt because it was free money for the politicians to spend. Japan, for example, has a national debt twice that proportionally as the United States. A lot of developing countries went binging. A lot of companies that could borrow. Even solvent, great companies like Apple, which has a huge cash flow, ended up borrowing over $100 billion.

Why? Because the money was virtually free and any interest was tax deductible. So they used it to pay dividends, buy in stock and all that kind of stuff. And so the Fed and the other banks just stored the market. So it's a critical reason why we've had punk growth rates. And Trump started to get some growth rates. So the Fed's got a responsibility. I get it. I get it. I get your point. I want to move the discussion forward because we only have you for a block. So one of the reasons that the markets actually took an upturn for a bit yesterday was people were speculating that the feds would not issue another rate hike now on this on the interest rates because of what was happening at Silicon Valley Bank.

The reports were yesterday we lost one hundred billion dollars wiped off of U.S. banks value and what was being described as a bloodbath on Wall Street. But there was some hopeful speculation that all of this would stop the Fed from raising interest rates again. However, today we see inflation is basically holding steady. We're at 6% again. It's just a tick down barely from last month. And so that's what the Fed has been raising the rates to try to stop. And so now there's speculation maybe it won't stop him. Maybe this crisis will continue because the interest rates don't seem to be budging much. The inflation does not seem to be budging much. Well, the Federal Reserve, the big problem there, and that's shared by most economists and all other central bankers, is they believe the way you fight inflation is by

depressing an economy, making people poor, trying to increase unemployment. That's not the way you fight inflation. The definition of inflation is when you lower the value of your dollar, in this case, the dollar, lower the value of currency, usually by creating too much of it. So you don't, and back in the 70s and early 80s, we went through repeated recessions to fight inflation. What finally conquered the inflation was not a bad recession, was when after the 81-82 recession, the Federal Reserve started to stabilize the value doing the opposite. They want to raise taxes. They're piling on regulations, doing everything they can to throw a sand into the gears of the economy, even though they say they want it to grow. They're doing everything possible to stop it. And you have a Federal Reserve that totally misunderstands inflation.

Inflation is not, there's something in economics called the Phillips curve. It's not a baseball pitch. It's a theory that if you want lower inflation, you have to have higher unemployment. If you want lower unemployment, you have to have higher inflation. Experience shows that's absolute nonsense. But at the Federal Reserve, it's wholly writ. So they may back off on trashing the economy this round. But if they go back at it, we're going to have a troubled economy. I don't know whether the economic theologians will ever call it a recession, but people are

in for hard times. And because a lot of companies and some banks got addicted to low interest rates because they seem to be around forever. You saw in Britain, their pension funds had a disaster in the fall because they were trying to reach for yield. And when rates went up, oopsie daisy, the government, in effect, had to bail them out. And so what you're going to see here, a lot of companies that depended on free money are going to get in trouble in the next few months. So the Federal Reserve does not know how to fight inflation. Not the end. Okay. Let me switch gears and tell you that we just got this breaking news in. The collapse of Silicon Valley Bank is now under investigation by the Justice Department.

They are in the early stages of investigating it. Fox News confirming the Wall Street Journal first reported this morning saying the SEC is also investigating. In particular, the government probes will look into stock sales that the bank's financial officers made days before the bank collapsed. We were told by some reporting that those were automated, you know, pre-scheduled sales of stock by the executives, but they made millions off of them. So the Justice Department will look into whether there was fraud, whether there was other there were other misdeeds. That leads me to another question I have, which is, much in the same way we had Arthur Anderson collapse after Enron went down, right, because it was the accounting firm for Enron and had given it all these clean bills of health, and now we know

that that was not true, KPMG, as it turns out, another big accounting firm, 14 days before it collapsed, gave the Silicon Valley Bank a clean bill of health. They signed off on the audit and they're saying, oh, well, we weren't looking at current day. You know, the audit looks back on the previous 2022 year, but that doesn't save it. It's also supposed to be looking at whether there was anything in between the close of that year and the current issuance of the audit report that would change the clean bill of health that it's offering. It's not going to be able to save itself by saying, oh, we were only looking backward and we didn't look up to present day. So how can our accounting firms get it so wrong? a miss if I didn't mention Forbes. Forbes also, a magazine, not you, put Silicon Valley Bank on its annual list of America's best banks just weeks before regulators seize control. You are not KPMG.

But why wasn't this seen by KPMG, by you guys, by more people who are supposed to raise the alarm? Well, on our side, KPG can explain themselves. But on our side, we took numbers, the latest numbers, which was the end of the third quarter, and used nine metrics. And there was nothing in those publicly disclosed metrics that had the huge mismatch between the liabilities and assets. That's something that should have been known internally and certainly by the auditors. But the public information was not there, which is why stock analysts didn't see that kind of problem. But the thing is, yes, have those investigations of management and the accountants, but also don't let the FDIC and the Federal Reserve off the hook. The FDIC is in the business of making sure that when a bank, a big

bank gets in trouble, that you contain the trouble, that you sell the assets. Usually there are assets there that can be sold. And with the Silicon Valley Bank, there are plenty of assets. And why wasn't that done? Why did the FDIC drag its feet? So let's have a thorough investigation, a 360 degree investigation, not just saying bad man. Do you feel like you, like the magazine, perhaps the investigator, the KPMG, do you feel like you were actively misled by the company? No. Well, we took the numbers that were there.

And the numbers, the number, the publicly disclosed numbers don't give you in terms of the assets, in terms of what they have, in terms of hedging and things like that. So the bank itself probably, what the bank has to answer for is they knew for a year interest rates were going up. So if they wanted to go out in the yield curve, why did they go so far and why didn't they hedge and why when they got in trouble yeah and why didn't and why didn't they uh when they got in trouble why didn't they uh seek a buyer there are plenty of uh funds out there plenty of banks willing to buy distressed assets to get the deal panic okay here's the other question um why why should i believe that the consumers are not going to wind up funding this bailout?

You know, they say that, oh, the government's going to pay for it. Basically, they're saying they're going to go into this bank insurance fund and they're going to use that money to pay for this bank and paying back these depositors their money. And then they say, don't worry, we're going to refill that special insurance fund by a, quote, special assessment that we will issue on the banks so the big bad banks are going to pay for this well where do the big bad banks get their money let me think oh for me precisely from us that's why for example when they talk about uh hitting

businesses for taxes where do the businesses get the taxes from they get it from workers shareholders and big big time from customers it doesn't grow on trees. So the government is dissembling here, saying it's going to be costless. Yes, FDIC has some cash, but that was to cover $250,000 of liabilities, not the unlimited liabilities that we have here. So in terms of though paying for it, again, if you have a proper sale of the assets of those two big banks, a lot of that will be covered by a proper sale. Again, this is stuff that we've done before, going back to the 1980s, 1970s, when we started to have a rash of bank failures and what to do and what not to do. So they've ignored the lessons of the past and what you do in a situation like this, making it more costly

and creating an unnecessary panic. This could have been done quietly. That's very interesting because the headlines today, I think it was in Politico, are about how President Biden saved the banking industry. And you're saying, hold on,

because these government administrators and agencies like the Fdic blew it there were real opportunities to sell this bank to save some of the assets to sit to stop this price tag from going uh the way it has and they they were asleep at the switch and incompetent i think uh it's also ideology played a role a lot of people in this administration administration think big is bad. And so they took us real hard. They really did not want a big bank coming in and buying another big bank. And they also, I think, like the ideas of getting their claws on a bank, which they have right now. I remember back in after 2008, when Barack Obama became president and the government forced banks to take out a bailout.

A lot of them were happy for it, but some banks did not want the bailout, but were forced to do it. And Obama was very reluctant to have the banks repay that money because he liked the idea of government having a piece of them and controlling them for political purposes. Eventually, they had to unwind TARP, as they called it. But we have that same socialist mentality here. Again, the FDIC, as soon as they learned this bank was in trouble, would have been very easy, given the assets this bank had, to liquidate or find a seller for those assets and avoid the kind of panic we have. So the government played a big role in the panic and we're seeing it play out now. But remember,

the banking system is all is good shape, but there are a lot of companies out there and entities that got are going to get caught up because the fact they had a generation of no interest rates, zero interest rates. Yeah, right. Which is a government imposed decision and so on. Yeah. I mean, don't believe the political headline, in other words. Okay. Last but not least, you were in the news personally this week because our friends Carol Markowitz and Bethany Mandel have a new book out called Stolen Youth. Not to be confused with the documentary that's online right now about Sarah Lawrence University, two separate things. Stolen Youth, the subtitle is How Radicals Are Erasing and Indoctrinating a Generation. And you were at the book launch party, which is nice. Glad

to hear you went and supported the ladies who are our friends as well. And what happened to you? What happened was I was talking to a Bethany about the subject, and suddenly there was this racket as a protester came in, a woman screaming about Black Lives Matter, Lord knows what else. Another protester came in, knocked the books over. We were near the book display. They threw a drink our way. Fortunately, the glass didn't hit anybody. Bethany got wet. I got wet. And she had to change her dress because she got soaked. And fortunately, I was wearing a dark suit, so no visible harm there. and screamed absolutely incoherently, underscored the whole theme of the book,

that we're in an era where a lot of people, a lot of these people exhibit intolerance and ignorance and a proneness to even to violence. Fortunately, no one was injured, but they came in to disrupt this reception for a new book. And fortunately, no one was really hurt. So it's unbelievable. You're 75 years old. This is you're just trying to support somebody in the sale of their book. Like this is not what you should be subjected to or what anybody should have to deal with. I think it was Bethany who spoke out and said they these people are exactly what our readers don't want our kids turning into, their kids turning into, and that wokeism is poisoning young brains. It's why they wrote the book. It's why I think ultimately wokeism will fail.

You've spoken out against it as well. Do you agree? Do you think it's on the way down, Steve, or do you think it's as strong as it's been over the past few years? No, I think what you've seen is it's still strong, but the counter forces are a gathering force, you might say. You see it in the school choice movement, where several states now put in educational savings accounts, where the parents will control the money, not the school bureaucracies. living rooms or renting a classroom. A woman I met at that reception is doing that with a group of mothers, rented a classroom to do instruction for their kids so they couldn't stand the wokeness in the schools. And you have one presidential candidate, certainly Governor DeSantis of Florida, he'll be announcing, I think, in the next couple of months, making this an issue. The American people do not want their kids indoctrinated and made fearful and hateful. And so, yes, the Wokies will fight hard, but they are now going to be in a rearguard

action instead of on offense. The forces of good are marshalling, and I think ultimately, common sense will prevail. From your lips to God's ears. We actually have an update for folks on that involving Robin D'Angelo, who seems kind of depressed and we'll explain why. Steve, I'm glad you're okay. And thanks so much for being here and for supporting. Thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you. All the best. We're going to be back next with Marcellus Wiley on everything, including the breaking news with Michael Irvin. Have you heard what's happening with him? This woman claims that he kind of attacked her at a renaissance and he denied it and said this is like an old fashioned lynching. And now he's putting out the videotape. It's breaking right now. We'll be back with that.

Is Tom Brady preparing to un-retire again? The rumor mill is in full swing on that. Plus, we're watching breaking news right now where former NFL player Michael Irvin is holding a news conference on his $100 million lawsuit. It stems from a brief run-in he had with a hotel employee shortly before the Super Bowl. Irvin has denied wrongdoing,

and we expect him to release the surveillance video of the encounter at any moment. We've been waiting for this. He's been waiting for it and finally got his hands on it. He's not happy with the hotel chain or his accuser. Joining me now to get into all of it is Marcellus Wiley. He's host of the More To It podcast and former NFL star, of course, Marcellus. Welcome to the show. Hey, how's it going, Megan? All's great. Oh, it's going great with me, too.

Thanks so much for being here. So this is kind of crazy what's happening with Marcellus Wiley, with Marcellus Wiley, what's happening with Michael Irvin. Hey, I was about to say, what did I do? You did nothing. You're good. You're good. And Michael Irvin may be good, too.

I don't know. So the way this got started was right before the super bowl he was doing commentary on the air he was at i think it was a renaissance which is a subsidiary of marriott and some hotel employee claimed he had grabbed her arm and said some inappropriate things to her while very drunk and uh you know some kind of r-rated stuff and that was kind of it um but it's turned into this massive deal where the hotel reported him to the nfl he was saying this is a bunch of bs i was drunk i don't really remember the whole encounter exactly but i definitely did not sexually assault anybody and um then they said give us the video there's video to give us the video he filed a lawsuit the court said to marriott give him the damn video and marriott didn't and

and marcus's lawyers were saying this is you blatantly violated the court order like give the man the video of if you're so sure he assaulted a woman let's see it and so finally they were forced to do it he's now gotten his hands on it and we're about to see it. And so finally they were forced to do it. He's now gotten his hands on it and we're about to see it. He's holding a press conference right now. What the heck do you think is going on? Because the news today, I think, was that he just yeah, he just dropped the one hundred million dollar lawsuit against Marriott. And we don't know exactly why, because it was a defamation lawsuit. But he may refile it because it was, I don't know, maybe he just doesn't like the way he styled the claim. So I'm not sure what's going on. But what do you make of it? Because you know him.

Well, I'm no lawyer, but I play one on my podcast. So let me play it right now. Your timeline is pretty accurate. They dismissed the lawsuit, but moved it to Arizona. So he's still going to sue Marriott. I don't know what we're going to see on this video. There have been videos shown on the internet before. Now, you got to take this beat by beat to kind of really get a great understanding. This is not a character conversation about Michael Irvin. Why? Because there was a complaint made about him about an instance. So we have to really focus in and be in a vacuum of this moment. What is this lady complaining about? Well, the video doesn't support what she is claiming because the only video I've seen is a really brief encounter in a public place. That only thing you can take from the body

language is that it was nice, it was pleasant, and it was quick. Now, if there was something orally, verbally said in that moment, well, we're going to need to videotape with audio. Because other than that, what I've seen, there's nothing that's going to make that complaint actually stand in a court of law. But we all know our judicial system is supposed to start with innocent till proven guilty. But we know in the court of public opinion, it's just the damn opposite. As soon as there's an accusation, you're guilty until you're proven innocent. So the burden is really on the young lady to actually have her complaint have

merit. Right now, I don't know where that can go. Your imagination can take you a lot of places. Did Michael Irvin walk past this lady and say something inappropriate? Maybe, maybe not. Does she have proof of that? Because if she doesn't have proof of that, he did not say that in a court of law. So right now, I'm just looking for the proof. Maybe this video is different than what I've seen, but so far by numerous witnesses and the videos I have seen, it's going to be a very difficult case for her to win the complaint. This is what they just released an information packet moments ago, Irvin's team, his lawyers, to people like us, members of the media to say, here's what to watch for when you see the tape. They say, where is she going? The complaining employee appears from the bottom left of the

screen, walks all the way around the lobby to cut back into the bar where she starts the conversation with Michael. There was no reason for her to go that way. They're saying she sought him out. They say, watch her body language. She is not offended. They say, as she leaves the bar with the other employee, she's not shaken, but the man seems very upset. The male employee in the bar claps as the complaining employee starts talking with Michael, lingers in the bar, leering at the complaining employee throughout most of her conversation with Michael. He talks to a man in a gray shirt who seems to be security personnel.

He waits for the conversation to end. He intercepts the complaining employee, points at her sharply, and appears to chastise her as they walk off screen. What is his relationship to this employee, the employees at the hotel? He seems to be a manager. The security guard in a gray shirt lingers during the entire interaction the employee who wants to take a picture uh with michael and then watch michael's body language and the manner of speech with the complaining employee and compare with his interactions with everyone else in the video they're saying that nothing happened that this is being unfairly targeted is being unfairly targeted here yeah i

mean look i haven't been in this exact situation and circumstance, but I've been around this. It sounded like what I just heard and I need to see it and I need to read it again. But let me just give you a little conjecture. It sounded like there could be these things at play. Like the young lady came to Michael Irvin and maybe have a relationship with this man that they're talking about. And she came in strong, came in hot, flirting with Michael, whatever may be. Michael's not

stupid. He can read the room knowing that those two together, maybe not for everyone's understanding that they're together, but Michael could fill it out. So Michael's like, I'm good. And that guy gets mad because his girl stepped out of bounds trying to catch a pass for Michael Irvin. Right. So it sounds like it could be some of that. It sounds like some little love triangle where Michael had no love for neither one of these people, but they were consumed and really intoxicated by his famous celebrity. I don't know. I need to see the video. But right now, if you ask me to hit the early gavel, it sounds like she stepped out of bounds, didn't like that. The shame of that moment made her file a complaint. And this guy also getting upset probably urged her to file that complaint because there's no way I did that on my own volition.

That's the other thing. That's one of the questions. Who actually filed the complaint? You know, was it her or was it him? Was it somebody else who allegedly witnessed it marriott their version of it is michael was visibly intoxicated he initiated the encounter so there's a divergence there says he flagged down the woman asked her about her job said he found her attractive introduced himself she explained she was not an nfl fan didn't know who he was he said look me up on

the internet the claim is that it escalated into aggressive flirtation unwanted physical contact and a graphic proposition he shook her hand he touched her arm quote without her consent i mean that's ridiculous that's like an arm i don't we've gotten to the point where like an arm is now a sexual assault yeah a handshake is now assault because you touched my palm like come on where does it become an assault like when you go past the the hand to like the elbow now you've crossed into sexual assault territory like how's the how about the bicep or the forearm where does that fall on the scale but unreal yeah they say he asked her whether she knew anything about having forgive me quote a big black man inside of her. And she was taken aback.

She thought it was inappropriate. Then he attempted to grab her hand again. Sorry if he brought up bad memories for her. These are in quotation marks in their motion. And then two hotel workers apparently approached and attempted to intervene. However, he he produced two hotel workers that say that's all B.S. That's not what happened at all. And I don't know whether the surveillance tape we're going to see has audio. Typically, it would not. Yeah. Look, the he say, she say of it all, that's the toughest part about any sexual assault, legitimate or not. It's just how do you get into those intimate moments, those intimate conversations and actually get details and actually get recordings and actually get recordings,

actually get facts. It's very difficult because obviously you're going to have opposing sides, opposing stories, opposing versions. Right now, one of my superpowers I've been able to possess, I think, in my life is I'm extremely patient. So I'm not the one that needs to know everything right now. I usually play to the back. I wait for everything to develop. And then I pick which of the three lanes I'm going to travel. His story, her story, or the truth. And usually it's a combination of those two. It could be 99 and 1%, but somehow, some way it always figures itself out. But I hate when I hear the details of the assault in this description when it's just normal activity. Like when it starts off, he was intoxicated.

That's not illegal to be intoxicated. It's okay to be intoxicated when you're going to your room. I think that's the place you should be going to if you're intoxicated. The only thing I know Michael Irvin did that was wrong is that interview right after it when he said, I don't remember what happened. I was intoxicated. Someone should have got to him really early. You know this from just watching any crime show that you're not supposed to say anything, even if you think it is actually supporting your case, because in a court of law, it will be used against him. So now that undermines a lot of the things he will say because he's already been on record saying he was intoxicated and didn't

remember. Yeah. If she's saying, well, I remember it clearly. And he's on the other side saying, well, I don't remember it. That's not good for him. But then let's just talk about like blowing these things up. You know, I have been inappropriately approached by more guys than I would care to remember, especially when I was younger. How does it become a federal case? Like, whatever. Some drunken fool. Let's say her version is true. And he got drunk and said the inappropriate stuff I just read.

Okay. You move on. He didn't push it. She moved on. She was fine. They say the hotel reported this to the NFL because the NFL had just requested Marriott to notify it should any issues of all arise involving any employees of the NFL booked at the property. Well, why? Why is that necessary? Somebody gets drunk and says something stupid and they got to call their employer. You got to get them in trouble with

their boss. That's called being human. It's not great. If he did it, he probably could have solved it with, hey, I'm sorry. I was a drunken fool. And you're like, no problem. How does this get escalated in national news? And then now he's in trouble. And that was a federal lawsuit by him against them. Like it's spun out of control. Yeah.

Yes and no. Let me say the yes and no, because I love to bring perspective to things like this. Every day I speed past the speed limit. Like if I see 35, if I'm going 35, I feel like I'm going slow, right? I'm on a freeway, 55, I feel like I'm going slow. Every day I speed past the speed limit. Now, by law, I can actually get pulled over and ticketed, but I don't. But when I do, it's all of a sudden out of time and place where I say, well, I did something that wasn't necessarily right, but I do it all the time or it happens all the time. Why are you tripping right now, officer? And I think there is some of that in parallel to this because it is

inappropriate. Look, I went to college and if she went to college, trust me, she's heard worse and walk right past it. She's done worse probably or received worse in terms of treatment and walk right past it. You can't go to college and not hear crazier things than that at the local pub. That said, that wasn't right what happened at the local pub, but we all just get desensitized because that's the way it goes. I don't know what Michael Irvin said, but if he said these things, then there's a conversation to be had about those were inappropriate. I'm in the school of thought that I would just walk past it. I don't stop for ignorance. I just keep it pushing. If it's really not a complete violation, especially physically to me, mentally, I could block that out.

However, that doesn't mean I'm not standing on the right ground. She may be standing on the right ground and then it's becoming an ambulance chase. You know how it goes. I got into a car accident one time. I had a Rolls Royce. Got into a car accident. I swear. I swear. It felt like two feathers touching like and the person the person gets out the car and looks and realizes it's a Rolls Royce literally tried to get back in the car and grab their neck I was like oh my god that's what we're doing here and I wasn't filming it so then it became their word versus my word think I had to pay a little more than the average Joe, but they tried to get me. They got up like this and then they're like, hey, hey, oh, oh, oh, you know, and I was just sitting there like, that's what happens. Michael Irvin, whatever that may be in conversation, you got to keep yourself a great distance from people because sometimes this can occur.

That is a very good point. I mean, he's a famous guy. He was a huge NFL player and people do know him. I don't know whether this woman did or not, but it's right before the Super Bowl. All these big stars are in town. You could put two and two together. That's a similar thing happened to me. I love the fact that she's at the Super Bowl drinking at night and like, oh, my line is going to be, I don't know anybody in the NFL and I don't like football. Like she was an employee. She was at the hotel. She might not have been. She was the drinker. But when I was in law school, similar thing happened to me where I had the smallest

little car accident. It was nothing. It was a fender bender. If that. And, um, I, I like none of us had any money. The woman who I had the accident with had no money and I had no money. And so she whatever, we're going to walk away. It was five hundred dollars the damage to her car. I did cause it. Allegedly. Yeah. Allegedly, I rear ended her car, but it was a nothing. So I was going to be five hundred bucks like to fix her fender. And then she found out I was in law school. So she thought, oh, there's going to be money like she's going to get soon. And but I didn't have insurance because I was poor. I wasn't yet rich. So there was no pot of money to tap into. And then her lawyer dropped her filed a lawsuit against me. And suddenly this fender bender, which is a nothing, turned into, and I quote, severe and permanent cervical neck strain. And they filed a huge lawsuit against me, which they then had to drop when they realized I wasn't insured. Oh, that's so good. Look, not to torture this example, but I got another story that's even better. And it's on the other end of the spectrum. So once again, I guess I was a bad driver when I had this Rolls Royce. I'm getting off the freeway off ramp

and I look left because I'm turning right to make sure no cars are coming. And I didn't look right because I just assumed no one was there because it's a freeway off ramp. But it was a person walking and I'm be real. It was a homeless person and I barely bumped him, but I did bump him.

And he hit the hood. He said, hey. And I was like, I'm sorry. And immediately I'm like, he's homeless. So I'm not trying to get anything in trouble. I get out the car like, you OK? He's like, yeah, yeah. He's like, I'm fine. But you got to watch where you're going. And he's like, can you give me some money? And I'm like, this guy's not going to sue me. This guy doesn't even going to get information. And I empty my pockets. I think I had like $500 on me or something. Empty my pockets.

We settled that lawsuit right there for $500. But this was just a flip example of someone that could have been someone else and didn't really try to make him way more than it was. This guy was like, look, you didn't hurt me, but pay attention. And I gave him $500 just for the inconvenience and the little bruise he may have had. So I've been there in many ways. Yeah. You know how it is. In our litigious society, whether they think you're a star or not, I'm sure all of our listeners right now are like, yup, me too. They've had a situation where

somebody decided there might be gold at the end of that rainbow and went after them over BS lawsuits. This is the downside of the American litigation system. Wait, do we have time to play the video? We just got it. Oh, wow. My team.

Here we go. All right. Yeah, let's play it. We got it. It just came in. Michael Irvin's hotel video surveillance. Uh,

hard to see. There's no audio. I don't know what the hell I'm seeing. I need circles. I need, I need X marks. We're going to see the girl on the right michael i michael has the jacket are they talking now seem to be talking i don't see anything i my my view is not very good i, but the audience can't see my money very well. They're talking.

Two men are sort of meandering around. I don't see any physical exchange. That's the celebrity hovering right there. Yeah, celebrity hovering, right. Somebody's like, hey, that's Michael Irving. Nothing. I don't see him grabbing her. I see space between them. Constant space between them.

Does not look like a sexual assault i can certainly say that he's gesturing or she's gesturing well there's no sex there's no contact it's kind of tough no i don't even see the elbow thing here marcellus i see nothing oh she did the lean back the lean back is always like oh that was funny but not really so that means uh i'm liking you oh is that a handout it could be there's not a grab i can't i can't see it very well i'm not learning anything from this video nothing at all like i told you that's a straight b as we say she put she put her mac in oh the elbow elbow. He leaned forward there. I could see him being a little drunk from the way he's standing.

Who the hell knows? Total speculation. I have no idea. It looks a little unsteady. Oh, my goodness. What is going on here? It keeps going. But at this point, if you're an employee, don't you just say, I got to go?

My boss is over there. I'm not sure. There's so many ways to get out of it. It's a bad episode. Yeah. She's doing a lot right now. Now the guys are there. Yeah, now the two other guys are coming over.

But no, they're not like coming over to intervene. They're just sort of lingering. And then she walks away. Well, I mean, I'm sorry, but that looked like much ado about nothing to me. Like, move on. It's a nothing. My God, if I could list for you the things that have been said to me, especially during my college years, it would make what he said look like a G-rated Disney film. If that's assault, we're all going to jail. Let's say that.

Exactly. I think I've assaulted people too. All right, Mark, Marcel, stand by. He stays with us for the rest of the show, and we will be right back with Tom Brady and also the latest in Colin Kaepernick. Just to continue the discussion we were just having, I just wanted to mention one thing. Michael Irvin did suffer pain as a result of this allegation. He was kicked out.

He wasn't allowed to do his job for the NFL over the Super Bowl. He was sent home. And that's why he was so mad. And this is like sort of, you know, the punishment comes before the crime's even been investigated. So it's BS and we do need answers.

And the NFL needs to seriously revisit. It's, you know, make sure your hall monitor, everybody who works for us and run in and tell us like if something escalates to the point where a civil lawsuit's been filed or a criminal complaint is made. That's one thing. None of that happened here. It was basically just like an unfortunate encounter that got blown up. OK, that's that. Is something similar happening to Tiger Woods? This is kind of interesting. I saw the headline about him looking for it in my pack. You can't find my page. But Tiger Woods got accused by an ex-girlfriend. He's been with this woman for years of allegedly sexually assaulting him. However, she didn't make it. She didn't she didn't expand. She just checked a box on a federal lawsuit sort of complaint form that said, is sexual abuse involved in this? And she said yes, without expanding on it. And she's going after him, even though she's signed an arbitration agreement with Tiger, which I guess he makes all of his girlfriends. It's sad, but you kind of have to if you're this famous and this rich, sign a nondisclosure and an arbitration agreement in order to come into Tiger's life. So she did that reportedly. And now she's gone public. She's filed a public litigation in which she's including that claim I mentioned and trying to come after him. And his team is fighting back, saying, number one, you agreed to arbitrate. Number two, you sued his

trust, not him, to try to get around this arbitration agreement, which is with him, because you want the public to see these allegations. You're trying to shame him into paying you something. And number three, they're saying you're a psycho. You're the problem. This is just a breakup that you're upset about. You're a jilted lover who's now trying to drag his name through the mud because he's got a history that will be used against him and indeed that's kind of how it's played out in the press where all the headlines were like tiger does it again without any proof to substantiate that it's a tough play um the parties involved the toughest thing about this is the details obviously that's where the devil lies. And in this situation, when you hear it from 30,000 feet up, you're like, oh, there's two places you go. You're like,

here we go, Tiger. You can't get right with the ladies. Again, we've known that all your indiscretions have involved relationships, right? That's what we're into again. Or you also look at Tiger as now a sympathetic figure. And you're like, oh, man, he may be a victim of his own success, a prisoner of his own success. And this is what comes with the territory. It's interesting. When I read the story initially, Tiger Woods was breaking up with his girlfriend, took her to the airport on a trip that they booked for her by herself, which to me already is strike one. Like when I've never been in a relationship where my partner says, hey, I'm booking you on a trip solo to go somewhere by yourself. And I'm going to take you to the airport. And then when she gets to the airport, they're like, don't ever come back. And we change the locks. That's how it initially hit.

Now, they say the number one reason for false accusation on any thing on any scope any level is shame so when that hits the newswire imagine you're this young lady you just got you broke up with tiger woods that's already kind of devastating life's gonna be different let's just say that i don't give a damn how much money you got life's gonna be different than being with tiger woods and then you're like trying to find your comfort zone, trying to get your footing back. And everyone is clowning you, shaming you. Look how Tiger Woods broke up with you in that place. Do you make something up or in that place?

Do you actually go back to all the things that you forgave him of that now? And you're like, you know what? Forgiveness is out the window because you embarrass me. A lot of times that's where we end up in this situation. Tiger Woods needs to just stay single man and mingle. Like I think tiger needs to be tiger. No more cage tiger, no more. Okay. I'm trying to be domesticated tiger tiger. just be who you are. And if that's the one who loves the ladies, you're not the first to do it. It's okay. Now, I heard one thing about this was interesting, that they had a clause that she thought that they would stay together five years

post-breakup because she provided valuable services. Whenever you break up with someone and their response or what they hang their hat on is not love or emotions or they miss you, it's valuable services. It lets you know we already was in a transactional relationship and this thing had no chance of ever working out. I don't know the inner workings of that relationship, but it looks a lot weird and weirder when you hear every single detail that makes you say, Tiger, stay away from the ladies right now unless you guys have a clear understanding. But doesn't it like you were in the NFL for how many years? Ten years, a decade. Ten years.

OK, so go Bills. And I know you're with Chargers and others in dallas but bills i'm from the state of new york and syracuse in particular so yes go bills um i gotta imagine when you were playing there you had to worry a little bit about somebody doing this kind of thing to you you know like i've talked on the air before about i've heard on like some superstar baseball players whose names you would know and make the extreme measures they have to go to to make sure that a young woman coming over to their house at night doesn't turn around and say, I was raped. Something terrible happened. You know, you're a target.

The bigger star you become, especially professional athletes. I got to imagine it's a concern. It's got to be a scary element of being a star. Oh, absolutely. There's an anxiety that comes with every encounter, male and female. Let's just be real. Every dude you meet, you're like, is he a groupie dude? Is he going to just be a yes man? Is this dude really trying to come in here and be the homie? Or is he just trying to get all the perks that come with being around me which includes other ladies you know uh you draft off for everybody that wants me and then you just sit there and start having fun and poaching off of that yeah that's the man conversation to another

man let alone to a lady when you're always vulnerable no matter what was said no matter what was written as in this tiger situation, doesn't matter because it can come down to a single moment of he say versus she say. So I had that anxiety. And one of the things that actually protected me was my upbringing, was my background. A lot of women would bring it up and I would echo it because they brought it up. They were like, oh, so you're from Compton or you're from the hood. And I was like, yeah, yeah. Oh, wow. Your family was gangster. And they were all in the streets. I said some of them. And then they were like, wow, that's crazy. Let me hear some stories. I give them a couple. Next thing you know, they're kind of scared to

mess with me because they know I'm connected to that life and that lifestyle. And I'm not like overtly, but yeah, I'm a phone call away from making this life different for everybody, including me. So I'm like laughing. And that actually made people scared straight. Like even my boys, some of them like, dog, don't mess with Wiley. Why? Because Wiley know folks. And then it's almost like in the movies where, you know, someone knows a soprano, you know, you're like, oh, so I never had to worry, but I had anxiety like I'm going to get caught up in some situations. And it's her word versus mine. So the way to do it is just like how you play sports. You actually got a game plan. You actually got to call the right plays.

And there are no guarantees no matter where you go, no matter who you meet, no matter what you do. You're still vulnerable to a woman's word. And I think a lot of men know that, especially men of celebrity. It's scary. I mean, it's scary just for me as the mother of two boys who, you know, in 10 years are going to be going off to college. And the system in college is so weighted against the boys, the young men who get accused like as somebody. Listen, I understand there are a lot of actual victims out there, and the pendulum used to be against them entirely, but we've overcorrected to now where we're throwing the boys under the bus without much investigation, and you have to be very wary

of it. I don't know what to tell them. I know you've got four kids. Like, what do you tell the kids? What do you tell the boys who are not celebrities about how to make sure this doesn't happen? Well, it's nothing you can say that's going to cover all ground, all the bases. It's just impossible because the circumstance is not just based on the objective parts that we can discuss. It's based on who are we talking about? I don't know this young lady. I haven't met this young lady. Matter of fact, you haven't met this young lady yet. My son is seven. So it's a little early for the conversation, but we will have to have it. And in that moment players, everything's in your favor, but it still

depends on what you do in that moment of truth. When that ball is hiked, what are they doing? And what are you doing? I almost look at it the same way when I talk about relationships. Oh, we had the best night ever. We had drinks. Oh, dinner was lovely. After that, we went back to my place. Oh, it was amazing. We played our favorite songs. We danced in the twilight. Yes. Yes. All that sounds great. It sounds poetic. It sounds fairytale. And then it can go different. It can go complete 180. She could say something happened that did happen or didn't happen. You could do something different than the gentleman and the nice fellow you were

for the last few hours. All I say to my kids already in my head is when that time comes, you're going to have to read that moment because you got to put yourself in the best position, but you also got to read that moment. Never get lost in that moment because you can lose it all. Well, I love what you said before about, you know, part of his like upbringing and just also parenting. Like, you know, if you're raising smart, well-informed kids who are reasonable and exposed to a lot, hopefully they develop that good sixth sense. They understand when they're in danger, you know, and danger can take many forms. They have the good judgment to pick mates or potential mates, even if it's for a night. But ideally, there won't be too many of those. Ideally, it's more of a love situation where

you really trust this person. That's all baked into the cake when it comes to good decision making. It is. It is. And even that's not foolproof. You could be with somebody for months. You could be with somebody... I've been with people for years. As soon soon as you break up, oh, another version of that person comes out, especially if you're the one doing the breaking up, right? Like we've all been, go to divorce court. Like just listen to those people in there. You're like, are these enemies, rivals? No, these are people who just got divorced. We're married for 20 years. We're together, have four kids. And you're like, that's coming out of their mouths. Yes. Mean what? Oh, you hear what he said? And even those are kind of little indicators of what can be. I tell people all the time, one of the Wiley isms I love is that the universe whispers before it yells and the universe will just give you hints.

If you want to know about something or somebody, listen to them. They'll tell on themselves. But the problem is when you're in love, infatuated, you're rooting for something to happen or somebody to be something you think they are. You skip past those steps. You run those stop signs. You're emotionally clouded from even hearing what they're saying. And then to your point, you got to trust your intuition. And I know we're not schooled to do that, but I remember reading this study that said that your intuition compared to your cognitive thought is 6 million times faster in response. What does that mean in layman's terms?

When you're walking down the street and you just feel something, trust. You felt something. Not, oh, don't think it away or outthink it and be like, oh, that's nothing, nothing. You felt something. And so the energy of this world is always transferring and transmitting. And I'm a person that really reads into those wavelengths. You're not going to catch me slipping. And if you do, okay, I got to get

up from that fall down and then respond. Yeah. Love and sexual attraction can be such a confusing film over your intuition, right? So it's like a man maybe with a woman who could potentially hurt him or make a false allegation. You might not know it, might look past some of the sort of, what's it, stage four. What's the thing from Wedding Crashers? Stage four glommer or stalker. What is it? Clinger. Stage four clinger.

Clinger. Could be like you overlook that. Or on the women's side, I've seen this with women of abuse who they fall in love. The guy's amazing. And the guy doesn't punch you in the face on the first abuse. He starts alienating you from your friends. He starts controlling your bank account. He starts tracking your phone.

He starts objecting to you making independent decisions about your life. Like the siphoning off of you from all the people who actually care about you and looking out for you starts slowly and builds up. And these women overlook it. Oh, we're in love. Oh in love oh it's fine oh he just wants to be with me oh he's just a little jealous and then boom that's when you get it and your support system's gone because you've you haven't listened to that sixth sense you've the film of sexual attraction or love has confused that strong sixth sense yes exactly like you don't put the frog in the boiling water. It'll just hop back out, right? You put it in room temperature water and slowly heat it up.

And that's the example that they use a lot of times for these situations. I've been there. Yeah. And I've been there. I just, I've been on dates when I literally was looking and not hearing anything. I was like, she is so fine, so beautiful. And then meanwhile, she was telling me, look, I like the party. I don't believe in monogamy. I don't like to cook. I don't like kids. I'm just hearing all the stuff that I like.

And I'm just like, whatever. Look at her. And then you wake up from that spell as soon as something overtly happens or you just wear off of that spell you're like wait a minute who are you for real happens a lot with athletes they get they retire and then all of a sudden it's time to meet your wife again because you're now on the road you're not busy you're now it's time to meet who you married 10 years ago and i swear it feels like 50 or more they get divorced in like six months as soon as they got to meet each other again. Well, okay. That leads me to Tom Brady. So we're going through

all the sports news. Tom Brady, I don't know whether this is true, but there is some discussion in the sports arena of him unretiring and possibly going to play for Miami. And there's been speculation on this. Some, some like journalists in sports world and others have spoken out saying it's a good bet. I'll say, let's see. Scott Zolak,

former NFL quarterback who has spent more than 10 years on the Patriots radio team said he believes not only will Brady return, but the most likely place is Miami. He told NBC sports, Boston, Brady likely place is Miami. He told NBC Sports Boston, Brady may go to Miami. I think that's in play. The possibility of him coming out of retirement is 100% in play. That's what he says. Sportscasters Rich Eisen and Colin Cowherd both said they also believe this could happen. He's officially a free agent as of tomorrow, so any team could contact him about playing.

And Zolak went on to say, I know that Brady's handlers have moved to Miami and that he's supposedly looking at private schools there for his kids. Now, the Dolphins already have Tua Tagloviola. He's the guy who got the concussions. I'm sorry if I butchered that last name. But of course there's a question about whether tua is gonna you know be there for the long term given all the injuries and this would be unbelievable one thing for the record uh they spoke with gronk uh you know his longtime teammate and gronk said uh he's done playing tom is definitely totally

done playing i have no inside information but i'm basing it off of his retirement announcement. I think all this is nonsense. What do you think? I think that we need to first just applaud Tom Brady for not only at this age, 45, having the opportunity to still play and the leverage to command this much attention and interest if he's still going to play. That's amazing. From his couch. this much attention and interest if he's still going to play. That's amazing. Yes, exactly. And then have a 300 plus million dollar job waiting on you as a Fox broadcaster. Let's just be real about this. Compare that to our realities, right? I'm a former player. I played a decade. And a couple of things retire you from the game. One, you just can't play as well as you want to. Like that's literally, I think, the starting point.

When you realize your better days are certainly behind you than in front of you, then it's time to start thinking retirement. Another thing that retires you is what's out of your control. The politics at play. We drafted someone who's almost as good as you, but they're 21 and cheap. Well, guess what? The politics at play, you get released, and everyone runs that same, they run that same understanding, like, look, every

team is going to look for the younger, cheaper version. You find yourself on the outside. Tom Brady's not in that conversation. Tom Brady still can play well going forward. He can still lead a team going forward. But last year wasn't his best year, and he knows that. Does he want to go out that way? It's a very emotional decision to make to retire. That's why he's unretired before. That's why I

think he's going to unretire again. Why not? It is a child's game you're playing. You play it till you can't play it anymore. The saying in the locker room is you ball till you fall. And Tom Brady hasn't fallen yet. He's still in place to command a starting job wherever he decides to go. So that guy has opportunities. He has leverage. The only thing that's making you give it up maybe is the process. Maybe it's the preparation. But Gisele divorced. Tom Brady moves to Miami. Tom Brady, if he's smart, moves right there because his kids are there. And now they have the co-parenting situation locked up. And then I can play for the local team. what do I have to lose? My legacy is solidified. No one cares about Jordan's wizard years.

No one's going to care about Brady's dolphin years if they don't go well. So it's a no-brainer to me if he can make it happen in terms of the contract and in terms of making sure that no one else can take him from that situation. He can land directly with the Miami Dolphins. I think everyone's correct. Where there's smoke, there's fire.

He's going to be a Dolphin. There, that's fascinating and riveting. And I do think the divorce makes it more likely, of course, because she didn't want him to keep playing. And reportedly that factored into their divorce. Now he's a free man. He's about to be a free agent. He can do what he wants.

But just help me understand, because I was never a big man. He's about to be a free agent. He can do what he wants. But just help me understand, because I was never a big athlete. I feel like you'd be tired. Maybe you'd want to get your $300 million from Fox just to do the commentary now and not have a bunch of big guys trying to knock you down every weekend. And the aches and pains get tougher as you're in your mid-40s versus when you're in your mid-20s. What is it about this game that he cannot walk away from? Yeah, we all have our vices. And one thing about athletics, I remember I was in Barbados or something in the cab driver. He was like, oh, you're an American football player.

I was like, yeah, yeah. He was like, big guy, yeah. He said, you know what's most amazing about pro athletes i was like nah he's like you do something for a living that every single person on this planet tried to do at least once and i was like what do you mean he's like everyone has grabbed the ball everyone has kicked the ball everyone has closed their eyes and said okay i'm gonna make the championship shot and open their eyes and swish. Everyone's trying to be an athlete. He's like, I don't know other professions where every single person tried to at least do it. And I was like, that's interesting.

He said, and you made it. Now, why do I say that? Not only did Tom Brady make it, he's the damn goat. Like all of those people, billions and billions of people who have tried to pick up a ball with their pops, their moms, to the ones who make it pro, to, oh, you're considered the greatest of all time. Excuse me if I don't ever want this dream to end. And that's what he's going through right now. You're playing a child's game at 45 years old, getting paid handsomely. Why would you stop that? I wouldn't stop it. And he's a quarterback. So that's the most protected position that gets the most love from not only the team and support, but also from the fans and from the business of the NFL. They get paid the most, they get touched the least, and they get the most love. Sorry, y'all don't live like me. And sorry if I keep going through

this roller coaster of retiring and unretiring, but I'm really not trying to let that scenario go. Wow. You remember when somebody paid, it wasn't like $85,000 for a vial of sand from the beach where he announced the retirement. It was some insane number. If he, if he unretires, does that person get their money back? I hope they wrote that clause in there, but I hope they didn't use Tiger Woods as lawyer because then that clause wouldn't mean anything in the court of law. What do you think? Here's the last question on Tom Brady. Do you think if, is there any chance? Cause I know you saw, you made some tweet about like,

we've all stalked our exes online. Like like just sort of checked them out after it's over. And that's got to be somewhat painful, even for Tom Brady, get it on again. Like she's been on the sidelines for too long. And she's done this ad campaign we're showing here for Arezzo, where she's got the, I mean, the body. This woman has had two children. She's just a freak of nature. I just, I don't understand how this happens to a woman, but good for her. And she had another thing.

She was down at Carnival and she looked amazing. And she was on the cover of Vogue Italia. I could go on. I don't know. Do you think there's still hope for those two? Hope for those two without knowing Giselle at all. And I know Tom Brady, but I don't know him like that. I think this is a time for them to breathe and really take in their success. So what happens is if you get married too early, and I have two friends that are recently divorced because they got married really early. You don't really get to check your identity box fully. Right. And so you're always curious of how would life be without the significant other, without the handcuffs, if you want to call them that, right? What would it look like if I had complete freedom? Now, I always tell them, trust me, it's not going to be as good as you think. It is false advertisement out there in them streets. You go to the local club and bars and hang out,

you're going to find out quickly. Things look great, but all things with syrup ain't pancakes. And I'm like, it is not that fresh out there. So they find out the hard way, but you got to find out. I always give this example. You go to Six Flags, right? You're waiting on the roller coaster. It's a three hour wait. And you're like, oh God, but I heard this is the best roller coaster in the world. Okay. I got to do it. And you're sitting there in line, line, you get close to the front and people are starting to get off saying, oh, that ride sucked. I would have never waited that long. Oh, that ride sucked. Would you get out of line? Not a single soul in this world. Right. I got to figure that out and find out for myself. So that's what happens with people. People don't care what you said.

Oh, that's what happened to you. Oh, that's how your experience was. Let me go find out. So Giselle's going to find out. Are these single men out here? Are they really checking for me? Am I checking for them? And vice versa with Tom Brady. I think the experience will be better for Tom than it will be for Giselle. Why? Because Tom Brady is still doing football. He's still in football. He's going to unretire if he wants to. He's still in that zone. He's still in football. He's going to un-retire if he wants to. He's still in that zone. He's still going to be a broadcaster in football. Giselle is modeling. That's great. But she modeled forever. And she's still going to model forever. But in the same scope, she's used to that. Tom Brady's not only a football player who's now single. Oh, that was a beautiful place to be. And he could be a broadcaster single.

And then he's already known what it felt like married and single. I just think Tom Brady is going to have a greater fun time being single than Giselle. And then you know how the kid dynamic plays with a mother different than a father. We'll see how it goes down. But I don't think they're looking at each other right now. I think they're looking at who I can be without this other person always around me. I mean, I think their biggest challenge is, as I say, yes, okay, he's the most eligible bachelor now, but, and I'm sure there are many women who are like me, me, me, me, but I feel like there

would be so much pressure to follow Giselle or to follow Tom Brady for that matter, as the new love interest of one of those people, like part of the problem they have is that they've already been married to the top, top, like the most beautiful, the most successful, you know, they're going to have to go for something alternative, like the smartest or the, I don't know, the biggest risk taker, like a Richard Branson, you know, or I don't just something totally unexpected that, cause you know, you've already been at a plus plus. Yeah, that's interesting. I just saw Tom Brady. What was it a week ago at the Bones Jones fight in Vegas?

And look, there's a line around the world for both of those people like Tom and Giselle are fine the way they are. And they could just say, you're sorry for your turn, your turn. Right. No one feels sorry for them. But when it comes to being authentic in this world today, you just got to take whatever you want in terms of package. And some people, let's be real, don't want authentic. They want someone that, hey, this is a business relationship. Marriage outside of inheritance is the number two transition of wealth in our country. Like either you're going to get it from mama or daddy or you're going to get it from who you marry. That's number two. So maybe they're looking for another rich, successful, wealthy person.

That's just nice enough. You never know. Or they want the guy or girl next door. But they got options. And that's all we want. Life options. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I, I don't know Tom Brady, but we, we, I've seen him on vacation a few times and literally every single friend I have is like, could you introduce me? Could you do it? I'm like, I don't know. No, but yes, there's, there's definitely interest. Um, okay. Let, let, let's, uh, let's shift gears. I'm going to take a quick break and then we're going to come back and I'm going to talk to you about what's happening. Cause I know you got daughters big into sports, what's happening

in women's sports. And in particular, we're going to kick it off with a discussion about women's weightlifting as we pick it up with Marcellus Wiley on the backside of a quick, quick break. Don't go away. Marcellus, I know you've spoken out about transgender women, meaning biological men who want to live their lives as women, infiltrating or taking over or participating in actual women's sports. And it's happening more and more. We talked last week about this school in Vermont that, to its credit, actually spoke up against this. And it's a Vermont Christian school. And what they did was, it's called Mid-Vermont Christian School. They said in the state basketball playoffs,

we are not going to play against a team that has a transgender student. We're not sending our biological girls to play against a team that has a biological boy on it. It's not safe, and it's not fair. And we don't care that it's the state playoffs we're not going to do it and the vermont law requires this to be allowed so now there have been penalties they are prohibited from participating in any future tournaments the vermont principals association has ruled that they can't do the future tournaments and no one from the school any sport at the school is now banned from all state tournaments not even just basketball because they took this position about playing against a biological boy they were and they said we're looking out for our students basketball in particular is physical it's it's not like even swimming which is still controversial but like you don't

just swim in your own lean nobody touches you it's it's physical so let's start with that and i'll get the the power lifting yeah um my stance is very clear on this um boys play with boys girls play with girls and transgenders if you want to participate should play and transgenders, if you want to participate, should play with transgenders. Just like we see in competitions where there's a special Olympics category and they are able to compete against themselves as well. And this is not a social conversation. It's not a conversation about identity. This is about biology. This is about bodies. And in sports, we've already been able to differentiate between men and women's sports. And it's weird. Let's get deeper on this first. When there's men and there are women participating, actually, there are opportunities for women to play with the men. But there are no opportunities where the men could play with the women, if you think about it, like in those competitions.

So it's funny we say male and female sports. What we really should say is female sports and open. Like if you can compete with the men, go ahead. But in this situation, what came to life was conversations. What would I do with my daughters? And I have three daughters. And I said, I wouldn't allow them to compete against a transgender. And it's not out of disrespect to a transgender. Yes, your best friend could be a transgender. But in a competition where we're

actually trying to measure your physical body and your strength and endurance and conditioning, et cetera, there's no way because it's not a level playing field. And I can dive into the weeds of why. But it's not only unfair, but it's not right. I am a man and I know what I possess in terms of strength and capacity. And no matter what I do to transition from being a man, my complete body won't make that transition. You could say the hormones, you could say some parts of the anatomy, but not a complete transition to a woman. I could not give birth. The point is, to keep it simple, because I

do respect them as people. I just don't want them to compete against my daughters as an athlete, just like I wouldn't compete against my daughters as an athlete. Right now, if there was a professional football league and I'm 48 years old and I got one knee and no hips, it feels like some days I literally will make the Pro Bowl in the women's league. And people were like, oh, you think, let me tell you what I possess. I possess a capacity that is just greater than a woman in terms of the physical metrics. You can take you to any sport. The longest drive average in golf is like 40 yard difference for men to women. Oh, really?

Yes. Even in golf. Now you want to talk about physical sports or combat sports? Oh, it gets greater in extremes. So I just looked at the conversation simply and tried to address it.'m just telling you, there's a reason why we have that. My son is seven. We had a four year old boy play on our team last year. Every one of those seven year old boys was protecting that four year old because they knew he couldn't do what they could do. And that's the same thing when you get into this conversation deeper. You know what you are capable of doing is a different capacity than those you're competing against. So your heart and your VO2 capacity greater as a man than it is, larger as a man than it is for a woman. I can go down the laundry list. So I really want to keep it simple so I don't demonize transgenders. I am not disrespecting you. I'm just saying male sports, female sports, transgender sports. Let's play ball. Amen. And on the power lifting, it's so obvious.

This is another one where, no, you're not going to hurt somebody because you're not power lifting against them exactly. But that's all about strength, right? It's like, that's the area in particular where men have an obvious natural advantage over women. National Review has this great piece up, um, where they spoke with this athlete in Canada and, and it's not just Canada. I'll tell you what's happening in Canada, but it's, it's happening in the United States. Cause we just covered a court ruling that went against the biological women. Transgender athlete named Christine Bainton.

She says, this is from the National Review piece, she had no idea she'd been beaten by a man at the 2019 British Columbia Powerlifting Association Fall Classic until she heard the winner accept the first place trophy. It was a man's voice. I said, what's going on here? Turned out it was this transgender woman named Anne Andres, who's a man who is allowed to compete against the women, get this, without any restrictions

under the Canadian Powerlifting Union's trans competition policy. This and doesn't have to take hormones doesn't even have to declare that ann is trans and can just enter the women's competition without saying anything about the fact that ann has lived all of ann's life as a man has a penis hasn't done a thing about her testosterone and testosterone um and go for it crush Crush everybody. Good on you. That's the Canadian rule. And Anne has been crushing and has been earning medals and setting records. And it just happened here in the United States, where in Minnesota, they ruled that USA power lifting must allow transgender athletes to compete in the women's division. Too bad if you don't like it.

And can I just say one of the reasons why now they're protesting up in Canada, even it takes a lot to make the Canadians protest. You know, it's like not really there. I know. I'm married to a Canadian. I know. Yeah, they're nice. Like they usually go along together.

But one of the reasons is that this powerlter, Anne Andres, is kind of an asshole. Kind of rubbing it in their faces. Here's a little sample of Anne. Welcome to Anne Says Something Controversial. Why is women's bench so bad? I mean, not compared to me. We all know that I'm a training freak, so that doesn't count. And no, we're not talking about Mackenzie Lee. She's got little T-Rex arms and she's like 400 pounds of chest muscle, apparently. I mean, standard bench in powerlifting competition for women. I literally don't understand why it's so bad. My son, he weighs 45 pounds. His max bench is like 33. I'm legit seeing some women in competition who are doing something like 50 pounds. And I just don't understand it.

Oh, my God. Just to correct what I said,ine is not trans christine is a biological woman who got beaten by a trans person named ann who we just showed but she can't understand and can't understand why women are so bad yeah that that is rubbing it in their face um it's unfortunate too because we all understand those restrictions just like a man understands I can't give birth to a child. You just say, all right, that's what comes with my gender. And it's not to slight women and it's not to slight men. It's just the way it is. Two things. Let me start here because the list is forever, but let's start here. Florence Griffith Joyner, Flojo, right? Fastest woman to ever exist, right?

10, 4, 900 meters. Fastest woman ever. There's 8 billion people on the planet right now and more than half are women. Now, let's just go through the math of entire nation, society, history of the world. Billions and billions of people. The fastest woman ever is probably 12th place in the California high school championships right now. There's high schoolers that will beat the fastest woman that ever existed.

Now let's take it to a personal conversation. Do you mean boys? Yeah, boys. Yes, high school boys. High school boys, 14 year olds will beat the fastest woman that was ever created. Think about that. All right. Let's get it personal. Let's take it home. Because there's two things from this. One, I had a conversation with a woman who was on the Mount Rushmore of the WNBA. one of the best basketball players ever. Don't want to say her name because this is a controversial conversation. But I said, damn, you're so good.

Could you play in the NBA? And she looked at me like I was the dumbest person alive. And literally was like, hell no. They're too big, too fast, too strong. Are you kidding me? She's literally top four WNBA player ever and was like, there's not a chance that she could have played in the NBA. Not a chance, she told me privately. Now, why everyone was like, why are you so emotional and adamant about this, Marcellus?

And they thought I had no experience with it they just thought I was just being a talking head Google 2017 Connecticut Glastonbury High School now my daughter went to that school and had to be in competition her classmates and herself with a transgender who went and set 15 records and won like 50. It was two of them won 55 championships between the two. Something absurd. This really demolished the record books and took all the medals and scholarship opportunities from naturally born women. I don't know why we want to make this conversation more difficult than it is. It's pretty obvious that a man possesses power and strength that is going to be greater than a woman on average, and certainly on the extremes. We need to respect

that like we respect other things and keep the gender roles and lines bold and distinguished. I totally agree with you. Thank you for saying it out loud. I know it's always risky when a well-known person takes those positions. You've taken them before, but it's insane and we're going to lose this fight unless more people speak out. So this woman you spoke of cannot make it into the male NBA and Colin Kaepernick cannot make it into the NFL since he was bounced out in 2016. He wouldn't stand for the national anthem, the whole bit. Colin Kaepernick is out now. There's a graphic novel about his life and it dovetails on something he put in. It was I was at the HBO show. It was like a movie online. We had to watch this whole thing. I watched the whole series about his life. and he has used this platform in his book in the same way he

used his uh his his special about his life which is to bash his parents who adopted him uh he's mixed race and his parents are white his adoptive parents are white. And he decided to use this opportunity to bash his parents as racists because they made a remark about his hair when he was a kid. Here is a sample of what he said in SOT6. I know my parents love me, but there were still very problematic things that I went through. I think it was important to show that, no, this can happen in your own home and how we move forward collectively while addressing the racism that is being perpetuated. He took cues from his icon, basketball star Allen Iverson, who he said wore his blackness like a suit of armor. And teenage Kaepernick wanted cornrows to match. He's getting what roles, his mom asked? Oh, your hair is not professional. Oh, you look like a little thug.

Your mom said that to you? Yeah. And those become spaces where it's like, okay, how do I navigate this situation now? But it also has informed why I have my hair long today. So what do you make of Colin Kaepernernick using his fame his microphone his pages his online special to bash the parents yeah um i think let's just give it context uh no country uh great like actually integrates race and culture to the extent that America does on this planet. Like we mix race and culture so often that it's easy to conflate things. And in this situation, I think he's conflating racism with actual association with identity.

I give it to you like this. I grew up in L.A. and we know what symbols are supposed to do. Symbols are supposed to tell the masses what you represent. If you look through the history of civilization, especially in yesteryears, they use symbols because they didn't have the information to transmit or the means to transmit it often and as clearly as they desired. So they would put symbols up, right? And that was a broadcast signal to everyone. What Colin Kaepernick doesn't understand, what I was able to learn really young in this world is that you can symbolize something to show you associate with it.

And it's not based on race. So Ice Cube famously said this in the mid and late 80s when the L.A. Raiders were here. Right. And Ice Cube N.W.A. wanted to be known as a gangster because that was going to help them sell albums and sell their image. Their persona was gangster. Right. So they said, I wear a Raider hat, T-shirt and khakis. And do you know everybody who wanted to act gangsta in the neighborhood and across this country was starting to wear Raider hats, T-shirts and khakis? OK, you take it from there. Will Smith and Fresh Prince. Oh, I want to be preppy. I want to be the guy that looks like a dancer. answer. High top fade, a little flower shirt, cross-colored pants. Point being, we all know that there are things that you can look like and represent something that is identified as that. My parents knew growing up where I grew up that there was a look to a gangster. They knew Raider hat, t-shirt, khakis. They also knew sagging. They also knew some of the hairstyles or some of the clothes

we wore, pendletons, meant you look gangster. My parents are Black, and my parents reprimanded me many a times for looking like a gangster, just like Colin Kaepernick's parents was trying to say he looked like a thug. What were thugs trying to wear? Their representation. Cornrows was one of them. They also had their uniforms as well. Jail suits. I've seen it all. And it doesn't come from the origins of race. It comes from the origins of association. And people wanted you to keep distance from those associations. You want to look like a nerd? That's not racial. Get a pocket protector, right? Pull your pants up, play the Urkel role. And all of a sudden you're a nerd. If a white person calls you a nerd and a black person calls you a nerd, it's just they're calling

you a nerd. It's not racism. So I think he just got caught up in the conflation because he had white parents. That shows the issues he's had with his identity because he doesn't know the source. He doesn't know the origins of their spirit because he always looks at their color. But if he were in my house, in my family, and I walked in with cornrows, my family would have said the exact same thing. What are you doing? You're trying to look like a thug. And it's okay. We can let down some of these borders. We can let down some of these walls that are really trying to exclude us from conversations where we can learn, oh,

that was a conflation. But instead, we want to be polarizing and we want to talk at each other instead of with each other. No, it's not dissimilar from, you know, my mom stopping me when I was young from going out of the house in a super short skirt saying, you look like a hooker. It's not because she thinks all women are hookers or she's got anything against hookers in particular, but she doesn't want me to look like one and she doesn't want me to be one. And that doesn't make her anti-woman. It just makes her a mother who cares about the associations and the path ahead. It's great to hear a voice of reason, Maricela. There's so much we didn't get to, but we'll pick it up again.

I hope you come back. I'd love to get into your backstory in the next time. Absolutely. I love it and appreciate you. And it's great to be on your podcast and keep killing it, superstar. I appreciate you. Thank you. Right back at you.

All the best, Marcellus Wiley. What a pleasure. Thank you. Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear. Thank you.