The Megyn Kelly Show - What's Behind the Elon vs. Trump Drama, and Insane Leftist Arguments, with Ben Shapiro, Anna Khachiyan, and Dasha Nekrasova | Ep. 1088

Episode Date: June 6, 2025

Megyn Kelly is joined by Ben Shapiro, host of "The Ben Shapiro Show,” to discuss the ongoing nuclear social media war between Elon Musk and President Trump, what Musk’s real role was in Trump’s 2024 victory, the way the left and the right are reacting to it, the real reason Elon vs. Trump went nuclear related to NASA, how the Big Beautiful Bill is still going to be passed, the leftist late night comedians loving the Mean Girls fight, how the snob Democrats continue to push insane illegal immigration arguments, how some are saying all illegal immigrants should receive free healthcare, and more. Then Anna Khachiyan and Dasha Nekrasova, hosts of "Red Scare," join to discuss whether Elon Musk flew too close to the sun with Trump, breaking down the feud, the insane leftist socialist who is running for mayor in NYC might actually win, his corny and performative ads, how he would continue to ruin the city, his odd backstory, Jon Hamm’s new Apple show where he snacks on the Eucharist after breaking into a church, how Hollywood continues to bash Catholicism and use it as PR, the reality of fat-shaming vs. staying fit, and more.  Shapiro- https://www.dailywire.com/show/the-ben-shapiro-showRed Scare- https://redscarepodcast.com/ Home Title Lock: Go to https://hometitlelock.com/megynkelly and use promo code MEGYN to get a FREE title history report so you can find out if you’re already a victim AND 14 days of protection for FREE! And make sure to check out the Million Dollar TripleLock protection details when you get there! Exclusions apply. For details visit https://hometitlelock.com/warrantyGrand Canyon University: https://GCU.eduDone with Debt: https://www.DoneWithDebt.comTax Network USA: Call 1-800-958-1000 or visit https://TNUSA.com/MEGYN to speak with a strategist for FREE todayFollow The Megyn Kelly Show on all social platforms:YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/MegynKellyTwitter: http://Twitter.com/MegynKellyShowInstagram: http://Instagram.com/MegynKellyShowFacebook: http://Facebook.com/MegynKellyShow Find out more information at: https://www.devilmaycaremedia.com/megynkellyshow

Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at noon east. Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show. It's the story that everyone's talking about. I mean everyone. Elon Musk versus Donald Trump. Let me give you the background on it and then I'll give you my take on it. This started when we were on the air yesterday, but it escalated quickly after we said goodbye. President Trump writing on Truth Social that he asked Elon to leave the administration. That's news. His special governmental employee status had expired, but it can be renewed. It goes for 130 days. It could be renewed, renewed, renewed. That's what they did with Anita Dunn. In any event, he's now saying he asked Elon to leave because he said he was, quote, wearing thin.

Peter Doocy at Fox News reporting this morning that same news and saying it had been going on for about a month, about a month prior to all this, that he'd been, quote, wearing thin. And that Musk went, quote, crazy, said Trump, when Trump took away the electric vehicle mandate. Trump then threatening to cancel government contracts that Musk has, his companies have, with the government. Musk responding by claiming Trump is in the Epstein files. Have a nice day, GDJT, he wrote. The world's richest man, that would be Elon.

Next, claiming that he was decommissioning SpaceX's Dragon spacecraft. That was the one that just rescued those astronauts off of the International Space Station. And by the way, right now, it's our only means of getting crew and cargo up to the ISS. And we have three astronauts up there right now. So it's kind of like an oh shit moment for them. Like, oh, my ride just got canceled. But then some obscure Twitter account said, why don't you, quote, cool down and don't do this? And Elon said, OK, we won't decommission the dragon. Now, I mean, obviously, Elon was just looking for something that this guy did not convince him. He shot off a threat in his anger and regretted it moments thereafter. There's no way Elon's leaving the three American astronauts stranded up there

at the ISS over a dispute with Donald Trump. All of this happening after months of the pair praising each other over and over and over and over and over. And his rocket company is the only reason we can now send American astronauts into space. Come here. Take over, Elon. Yes, take over. As you can see, I'm not just MAGA, I'm Dark MAGA. Tell you, we have a new star. A star is born, Elon. Elon, I love the double hat, but he's the only one that can do that. He's the only one that can wear it.

Well, Mr. President, they say I wear a lot of hats. That's true. Even my hat has a hat. I mean, look, in terms of imagination, I think I have a great imagination. Who else but this guy would design this? You've got to give him credit. Become one of your best friends. He's working for free for you.

Well, I love the president. I just want to be clear about that. You don't care about that? I know. I love the president. You love the president. I think President Trump is a good man. And he's, you know.

That's the way he said that, you know. There's something nice about it. There really is. You know. You can almost, if you listen carefully here, Barbara Streisand's the way we were running underneath that montage of sound, um, memories amid rumors that Musk and Trump would talk over the phone today and put this whole thing to bed. Trump telling multiple reporters, he has no interest in speaking with Musk, shrugging off the feud and saying he is totally focused on policy.

Let me tell you what I think is happening here. You have two giant egos. It's like Godzilla versus King Kong. There's a high entertainment value in watching it happen. I know some people are upset by it. I'm not upset by it actually at all. I don't think it hurts anything or anybody on the right. I really don't. I think it's just two massive egos doing battle, like brawling. And Trump let Elon go out there and pound the big, beautiful bill for a while. And then the criticism got a little sharper and

a little sharper. And Trump, of course, he's going to eventually have enough of that. So he did. He brushed back and said, you're just mad about the EV subsidies being taken out. And then Elon went like DEFCON one on him and said that he was in the Epstein files, which literally nobody believes, because how on earth would there be a Democrat White House that didn't reveal that Trump was, I mean, what does it even mean in the Epstein files in some nefarious way? I mean, I'm sure he means more than just in Jeffrey Epstein's black book, because we knew that Trump and Epstein knew each other. That's not news. So to suggest he's in the files means like what he's a, he's a pedophile. He's a pervert. He, he, he's like a Prince Andrew who had sex with, you know, a 17 year old bullshit. There's

no way that Biden's administration would have kept that a secret. He was running against Trump. He was running against Trump. That's so that's not true. Um, and you know, then Trump said, all right, you know, I'm going to cancel your government contracts back and forth, and Elon doesn't really want his SpaceX program and its help to NASA to be canceled. So there's, I don't know, it was kind of bound to happen. We all knew it was going to happen. No one's really the worse off. Trump's certainly not the worse off. There was a poll out just this morning, interactive polling showing everybody sided with Trump. All the Republicans have sided with Trump, not with Elon. Trump had like 72% of Republicans saying they're with him. Only 6% said they're with Elon. Democrats hate

them both. So where has this gotten us? Trump's not hurt. The big, beautiful bill will pass. Elon's already unpopular, maybe slightly more unpopular with some today. No government contracts are canceled. Trump's not in the Epstein book in any meaningful way. And we just watched the King Kong gorilla fight, which was, you know, pretty entertaining. That's my take. Ben Shapiro's here with his. He's the Daily Wire co-founder and host of The Ben Shapiro Show and author of the forthcoming book, Lions and Scavengers, the target. Here's how it works. Criminals can forge your signature on one document, use a fake notary stamp, pay a small fee with your county, and just like that, your home title can be transferred out of your name.

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hometitlelock.com and you will get a free title history report plus a free 14-day trial of their million-dollar triple lock protection. That's 24-7 monitoring of your title, urgent alerts to any changes, and if fraud does happen, they will spend up to $1 million to fix it. Don't be a victim. Protect your equity today. Go to HomeTitleLock.com. Use promo code Megan. That's HomeTitleLock.com, promo code M-E-G-Y-N. Ben, welcome back. All right. So dying to hear your thoughts on it. Well, I mean, I'm pretty much with you. Wildly entertaining, right? It's King Kong versus Godzilla. And watching the two of them smack each other is definitely high on the entertainment

scale. So I think it has any real lasting impact on the Republican Party. Not really. I think that there was always a sort of awkward alliance between the tech bro right and the blue collar populist right. And I think that this has exposed some of those fissures for sure, because you can see people who are sort of stuck in the middle and feel awkwardly stuck in the middle of that. Do they side with Elon or do they side with Trump? Who's this influencer going to side with? And so there's a lot of sort of entertainment weekly drama happening in the political sphere. And that's entertaining. But but as far as sort of the broader coalitional point, is the big, beautiful bill going to pass? The answer is yes. Is SpaceX going to stop providing services to the United States government? The answer is no, there is no substitute for SpaceX for the United States government. Blue Origin isn't ready. There's

no real alternative. So with all of that said, how's this shake out? It might shake out in terms of kind of the personalities at play, that if Elon is outside the administration sounding off on particular policy matters, President Trump goes by his gut and he also tends to be quite reactive. So if Elon, for example, comes out in favor of one particular policy, you could see the president sort of come out in reverse of that policy just to spite Elon. You could see more splits inside the Republican Party in congressional elections. Maybe Elon doesn't want to be involved in congressional elections in 2026. And so what you see is less money in those congressional elections from the Elon part of the aisle.

And again, you will see some strains emerge when it comes to, I think, particular political figures. One that comes to mind here the most is the vice president, who, of course, has one foot in Silicon Valley and one foot in blue collar Appalachia and sort of is getting torn down the middle here a little bit just in terms of who is who is he loyal to, which which side does he like? But in the end, does it really make any large scale difference for the American voter? Not not really. I think it's just more dramatic and entertainment than anything else. I think J.D. Vance is not torn. I mean, he only spent a couple of years, Peter Thiel out there and did not have a positive experience.

Nothing against Peter, but just he hated San Francisco. He hated being in tech. And his loyalties are obviously to Trump, as are the Republican parties. I mean, what Elon, I think, is starting to realize is while he can his money can make a difference, it definitely can make a couple points of a difference in a certain political race here or there, not across the board. We saw it not work in Wisconsin on that Supreme Court, excuse me, election. The real person with influence is Donald Trump. And the person with the party loyalty is Donald Trump. Donald Trump took a bullet for the country and the party, and everybody watched that heroic moment. He's been through hell and back with these, you know, litigations against him and criminal trials against him. He's earned the love and loyalty of the Republican Party in particular, in a way, I don't know that anybody ever will again. I really don't. I just feel like he's been through

so much. It's just, there's no, if it's between so-and-so and Donald Trump, Donald Trump is going to win, even if they're Elon Musk. The thing about Elon is, I think I speak for many when I say everybody's grateful to him. The biggest thing he did to influence the election was buy X and restore free speech in America. But you cannot take on Trump politically with the right. You'll lose. Well, I mean, I think that's true. I do think that there's one other thing that Elon did that that's sort of fascinating, and that is he did, in fact, open Silicon Valley to the idea of publicly expressing support for Trump. And that was not a minor thing in terms of sort of the overall cultural acceptance of President Trump. So what

Elon did by being a major tech figure and saying, I'm not only supporting President Trump, I'm going to go campaign for President Trump. And then suddenly you have Zuckerberg saying, you know, that's a brave guy, President Trump, after the butler attempted assassination. And suddenly you have Senator Pinchai over at the inauguration. The sort of opening up of the tech universe to the Trump universe has had some pretty impressive effects inside the Republican Party. But it also, as I say, opened up a bunch of fissures over everything from sort of free trade and tariffs, where tech pros are not in favor of tariffs. They're much more in favor of free trade. President Trump, obviously, is much more in favor of tariffs. And that tension has been playing itself out inside the administration to issues regarding crypto, technological development, AI. All of that sort

of stuff is a sort of complicated mix for sure. And, and Elon brought something to the table beyond his money, I think. And that was again, this image of this, this guy who was for a long time, the coolest person in America. I mean, this is a SpaceX guy, Tesla guy, innovator, bringing that to the table of a Republican party that might've been perceived three or four years ago as a slightly older, more rural party. And so I do think that he brought that to the table. And if that starts to fray, you could see a change in the coalition.

Let's put it that way. For President Trump, I don't think it makes much of a difference. For the future of the Republican party, I think this was always going to happen because when you have a coalition that is formed against the dominant party, which is what happened in 2024,

the Democrats were dominant, Republicans were not dominant, Republicans and sort of allied parties put together a workable coalition against the Democrats. But then you get into power and you have to govern. And this happens with every single administration is that you see battles that start to emerge between the various factions of the administration. And President Trump is unifying in a way no other Republican figure of my lifetime has been. He can sort of float above a lot of those aspects. And because he's non-ideological, he can pragmatically pick and choose kind of from the tree of policy in a unique way. But, you know, after President Trump is president, I think you will see a lot of these battles start to resurface.

I think they're resurfacing now, even while President Trump is president. And that is fascinating. So I just want to pick up on what you said about Elon making the Republican Party a bit cooler. It had been more rural and maybe not as like hip. I don't agree with that. I love Elon. And I really do believe more than any other American he's saved free speech in this country. I think on the trans issue, we'd be light years behind where we are right now if it hadn't been for him buying X and being really bold about that whole thing. But I mean, having obviously covered Trump for a long time, very closely day to day, I think Donald Trump is the one who made the Republican Party cool again. Trump is the one who, you know, just with his fuck you attitude and his taking on wokeness,

he brought Elon over. You know, Elon, he wasn you attitude and his taking on wokeness, he brought Elon over, you know, Elon, he wasn't responsible for building Trump's constituency. It was totally Trump. Elon came, I mean, with all due respect to Elon, he was quite late to the party. We were all there celebrating Trump and, and he had brought in a lot, tons of young people and changed the coalition with black and Brown and other Americans. And then Elon seemed to really get on board and respected what happened with Butler and all that. And so like, I just feel like he was one of the late arrivals. He was more in the Joe Rogan, Theo Von Camp, who very late in the game said, I love this guy. But a lot of us were there without those guys for a very long time

on President Trump's side and singing his praises. I mean, again, I agree with that. And of course, as soon as President Trump emerged from the first primary in Iowa, I think, you know, some of us were campaigning with him. Some of us were raising money for him and all the rest. But I will say that the one area where I do think something happened is there was a permission structure that did not exist before Elon and some of the tech bros jumped in that said that it was OK to be a high income

earner in a blue area and say out loud that you supported President Trump. Three years ago, if you lived in San Francisco and you supported President Trump, you would probably lose your job. And that is no longer the case. Yes. And that is no longer the case in a lot of these blue areas. It made it acceptable. Something changed. And it wasn't one thing. I think it was many things. I think one of the things was Joe Biden's absolutely abysmal performance as president, the fact that he was dead. I think part of it is that President Trump ran an actually shockingly disciplined campaign. And people forget about how disciplined the campaign actually was for the vast majority of the campaign. And obviously, the assassination attempt changed a lot of things about the

campaign. There were so many topsy-turvy events. But one of the things that I do think Elon should be given credit for is, again, the creation of a permission structure in people who would be considered the tech community or the white-collar community to say, yeah, you know what? I like Trump, and I'm going to put on a MAGA hat, for example, which is something that a lot of those people wouldn't have done. They might have, behind closed doors, been like, yeah, you know, I like Trump, and I'm voting for him. I mean, I know a lot of those people. I know, Megan, you know, a lot of those people, too. But it was really only in the late stages of this election cycle where you started to hear people who are quietly saying that they. All right. I get it. I'm going to back up. I'm still I'm still not agreeing.

I'm still not agreeing. I don't I don't dismiss Elon's role in in Trump's victory that I do think he he played a role. And it's been great to have him on the top on the side side of team sanity and paving the way for team sanity. And I've told the story before, but I had a discussion with a very, very like the top guy in tech who was like, oh, you know, we're starting to come around now on our censorship policies when it comes to the, the gender debate and the race discussions. And I was like, oh, you're starting to come around on it now. Like, oh, now you're going to stop the censorship? And he was like, well, you know, attitudes have changed on it. So like, I'm like, how do you think that happened? How do you think the attitudes changed? Because Elon Musk had balls and most of the rest of you

did not. He had balls to let those discussions play out. And when they were allowed to play out without forcing our side to have an arm tied behind its back, we won. So that's the role that I see Elon playing that's been so critical in all this. But Trump, those guys out in Silicon Valley, they bent the knee after Butler. Everybody saw a superhero emerge on the stage that day and said, holy shit, I need to touch his cape. That's what happened with Mark Zuckerberg. He didn't do it because of Elon. He didn't even like Elon. David Sachs was coming on this program regularly for the two years leading up to the election and was very in on DeSantis lost and he went with Trump, I think, over Ukraine, where he's much more in sort of the J.D. Vance field on Ukraine. But it wasn't Elon that got David over. If anything, it was maybe David who influenced Elon. That's been my take in watching it unfold.

So I just think Elon may have overestimated his own role in the Trump rise and victory. And Trump, of all people, was not going to cede one inch on the big victory and who was responsible for it. I mean, I don't disagree with actually a lot of that. And I think the timeline lines up with what you're talking about. The Butler assassination attempt changed an enormous amount and it opened up a door for people like Elon

to do that thing. The place where I'm actually most grateful to Elon, aside from obviously opening up X, is that I do think that what he actually tried to do with Doge was quite heroic. To actually give up your life running some of the biggest companies on planet Earth and to take billions of dollars in hit in terms of market cap in order to come in and try to cut the government. Again, I think there was something naive and ideological about it that I find actually kind of charming because government just doesn't change that quickly. You can't shift whatever the United States government is, a giant cruiser

on a dime the way that Elon was attempting to do. And I think that a lot of the frustrations that he's expressing are frustrations that some of us have been having with the size and scope of the federal government for legitimately decades. But yeah, again, I think that when I've been breaking it down, I've been trying to break it down politically, business wise and then in terms of personality, obviously politically. I think you have here a battle between somebody who is extremely ideological and almost naive in his ideological commitment to cutting government versus the pragmatism of President Trump. And obviously, ideologically, I agree with Elon. But when it comes to what actually can get passed and what can be done, President Trump is just correct about that with the big, beautiful bill. Well, when it comes to- And P.S., Trump has never been, he has never been the opposite of a spender. He's a spender. He was a spender in his first term,

and he's still a spender. He literally, I mean, this is the thing that drives me crazy about some of the people who are real fiscal hawks. I'm a fiscal hawk, but President Trump won in 2016 in part because in the primaries, he literally said he would not touch the entitlement programs. So people who are he literally said he would not touch the entitlement programs. So people who are now frustrated, he won't touch the entitlement programs. He rejected the Tea Party message in 2016 and in 2020 and in 2024. Trump is more akin to the you get a car and you get a car and you get a car philosophy of government. That's just true.

That's why a lot of folks in like the more traditional lane of conservatism didn't want Trump as the nominee. They got him anyway and they decided it was worth it over Kamala Harris, obviously. But yeah, he's not going to be the person to keep the purse super tight like Elon and some others would like. Right, exactly. So that battle is playing itself out. And that's a normal battle. That's the same battle as the battle between Rand Paul, for example, and the president over the big, beautiful bill. Where it comes to the personality stuff, you know, this is the sort of stuff where you have two gigantic personalities. I mean, you know, both of them. I know both of them. Neither of these guys is a small ego. Neither of them takes insults particularly easily. They don't really like it very much. The president is a pretty forgiving guy. I mean, there are a lot of people

around him who have really gone after him totally over the course of his career. And he's surrounded by them. I mean, J.D. Vance called him Hitler in 2016. Now he's the vice president. Marco Rubio ran against him in 2016. Now he's the secretary of state. You and the president have had some run-ins. I've had like, and the president is okay with all of that. So, but with that said, in the moment, there is never going to be an insult that passes that he does not slap back at.

That's just not how he operates. And Elon is very much the same way. And so the two of them going at each other this way, again, I think it would have been shocking if that had not happened at any point here. The thing that set it off is really the question, what actually set this thing off? And I don't think it was the big, beautiful bill.

I think the thing that actually set this off- I think it was the NASA guy. I think it was the NASA guy. I think the firing of Jared Isaacman at NASA was the thing that really set that off. And that is a tactical mistake by the Office of Personnel Management. It really is. I mean, like the idea that... They tried to needle. Just set it up for the audience because we haven't talked about it yet.

Sure. So Jared Isaacman is a billionaire space entrepreneur who was nominated for the NASA administrator while Elon was in the administration. And he's a very close friend of Elon. And Elon, obviously, if I'm going to decide who I want picking the NASA administrator, Elon actually is the person I'm going to ask. He's legitimately- Yeah, he's got some expertise there. Yes, I mean, he's the person who knows what he's doing. And Isaacman, last week,

right after Elon left the administration and had started fighting with the president over the big, beautiful bill, right after that, Isaacman, his nomination was withdrawn by President Trump, presumably at the behest of the Office of Personnel Management, which I believe is run by Sergio Gore. And the sort of idea that was put forth was that Isaacman had to be withdrawn because he had Democratic donations. Now, first of all, that would have been super easy for them to figure out when he was first nominated, right?

He was nominated weeks in advance. It wasn't as though this happened within 24 hours. They knew that all along. What that really is, was a way of needling Elon and kind of slapping Elon like he's out the door and he's mouthing off. And so we're going to take your friend and we're going to throw him out of a third story window. And I think Elon reacted very strongly to that. And that I get. I don't agree with the way that Elon went about his sort of revenge tour against the president. And I disagree again with with like the Epstein thing, as you say, is pretty ridiculous.

I mean, first of all, the idea that Democrats who had access to all the Epstein files would have sat on information that Donald Trump was pedophilically assaulting children on Epstein Island. Can you imagine? Like Joe Biden is sitting there, he's got that info and they don't release it. Yeah, no way in hell.

Somehow President Trump's IRS records are out there. I mean, it's just, it's an absurdity. But with that said, you know, the sort of pettiness of that, of getting rid of Isaacman, who appeared to be at least a competent NASA administrator, just to kind of, just to kind of slap it at Elon, this kind of stuff, it should be, you know, beneath the administration.

And then Elon's response would be beneath Elon, but I guess that we no longer do beneath, right? Yeah, we don't, that's exactly right. Well, that's where it got, I mean, let's be honest, who was leaving X yesterday afternoon for those three hours? I mean, some of the tweets that people were sending out were hilarious. It was entertaining. And I have to admit, I didn't feel sad. Like a lot of Republicans are like, I'm sad. I'm like, I don't feel sad. This is ridiculous. They're having a fight. Like they're big egos and big ids behind them. And they'll probably make up. And this is just kind of drama. And sometimes we like drama. I don't know. I do get a little nervous when I'm

like, when I'm seeing the left so happy, like those, the late night comedians last night, I'll give you a taste of how they sounded. If they're happy, I'm not happy. Like I'm not happy about the fight, but I'm just saying I'm not sad. And all these people are forlorn. It's like, all right, grow up. They're having a dispute. It was bound to happen. They'll get past it. As you point out, Trump is extremely forgiving, and I'm sure Elon is too. I mean, Trump's not, whatever. Laura Ingraham reported last night she's been told it's irreparable. Nothing is irreparable with Donald Trump. Nothing is irreparable. But here's how the late night losers were making fun of it.

Elon gave us a fun one. Time to drop the really big bomb. Donald Trump is in the Epstein files. That's the real reason they have not been made public. Have a nice day, DJ T. Oh! Oh, damn! Oh! Oh! Oh! Is this Twitter war a cheesy gordita crunch wrap supreme? Because it's dripping hot, messy filth, and I'm eating up every sloppy bite.

Oh, it's disgusting. Time to drop the really big bomb. Donald Trump is in the Epstein files. That is the real reason they've not been made public. Have a nice day, DJ T. I knew this day would come, and yet somehow it's even better than I imagined. It's like coming down the stairs on Christmas morning and finding a second tree. What does Elon know? What evidence could there possibly be that Trump was in league with Jeffrey

Epstein other than this and this? And who could forget this video that Elon went ahead and posted today. Okay, so they're gonna shoot that into their veins. And that is one reason why we should be glad. They seem to reach detente. I mean, I guess the phone call's off, Ben. But Elon's tone on X last night was much more conciliatory in response to that one guy like, okay, I won't cancel Dragon. And then Bill Ackman yet again tried to be the mediator of it. And Elon responded favorably to like, all right, yeah, we should stand down. Then Trump was holding an event with a fraternal order of police and was given the chance to comment on it and further bash Elon basically with the press who were asking him questions and he declined to do it.

So it does seem like we've downshifted, which is also good. Yeah, that's right. And the big, beautiful bill is going to pass. And then all of this is going to be kind of in the rear view mirror because that was Elon's main critique. Again, I think that Elon is going to step away from a lot of the sort of overtly political stuff. He's already said that he needs to. And I think that that's probably right. So this is part of that broader shift away. Of course, the left is happy about this. What's amazing about this is that the left truly has been absolutely prone during the Trump administration.

I mean, I'm amazed at this. Their absolute inability to consolidate around any single point of resistance means that, of course, they're gonna enjoy this in the same way that you would enjoy it or I would enjoy it. If President Biden and Alex Soros had suddenly started publicly feuding with one another. Right. It would be like wildly enjoyable and it would be really fun.

And of course, you'd be following it with bated breath. And I'll admit that, you know, watching Elon, you know, kind of just randomly tweet crap about Trump and watching Trump slap back at him on his own social media service. It's good writing by God. I mean, I will admit that the writing this season by God, I thought was a little weak. And then God always sticks the landing like right at the very end. The season finale brings all the threads together. And I will admit that like people who are treating this is like, oh, my God, it's a tragedy in the and the rending of clothing and the weeping and the gnashing. Like, come on, guys. Like, really? I think these are kids of divorce.

It's like it's a you know, it's triggering for them because to most normal people, I think it's just been highly entertaining, like unfortunate. Yes, it's not like something you'd want if you could choose not to have it, at least as if you're a Trump supporter. But here are some of the fun reactions yesterday. Kanye, his tweet got a lot of attention. Bros, please no with a hug emoji. We love you both so much. Babylon B always for the W. Judge determines Trump will get the nation on weekdays. Musk gets every other weekend and holidays. Ex-user McGill's, a federal judge just issued an injunction against the Elon Trump breakup. That's right on. And then there's someone named David Burge. He writes, get your entry in now for the new Trump-Elon nickname

pool. I've got a fiver on Muskrat. That made me laugh out loud. The redheaded libertarian. X is giving me anxiety today. I should probably go unwind with a serial killer documentary. And then this one from Ginny Hogan. Today is a huge win for every woman concerned she acted like a psycho during her last breakup. And that leads me to this, this, this one, Ben, which we, I mean, like everybody was thinking about this movie as we watched it happened. I'll give you the clip from Mean Girls. So we cut out girls' pictures from the yearbook, and then we wrote comments. Trang Pak is a grusky little biatch. Still true. Don Schweitzer is a fat virgin. Still half true.

Amber D'Alessio, she made out with a hot dog. Janice Ian Dyke. I don't know if they've seen it. I can't report that firsthand. But there seems to have been some inspo for it. Yeah, no, there are a bunch of people making comments that this is like the worst thing

that could happen during Gay Pride Month. It's just, just watching the breakup is just terrible. And, you know, like, the whole thing is, like, honestly,

on a comedic level, if you can't laugh at this, I'm not sure what you can laugh at. I mean, it's inherently too close to politics. Yeah, exactly. And also you take politics too seriously. OK, first rule of politics watching gang. And I've been doing it for a quarter century at this point. First rule.

It is never House of Cards. It is always Veep. Always. And this idea that it's like geniuses in the back room and they are coming up with magical plans and it's all 40 chess and underwater upside down, hungry, hungry hippos. It just isn't. It just isn't. It's a bunch of big personalities who are fighting over increasingly important things. I mean, like, okay. And you know what's going to happen at the end of this? Nothing. SpaceX will continue to operate with the United States government. The big, beautiful bill will still pass. Again, the only fallout that I see is that, and you can kind of see it in influencer world, the people who really are lamenting. It's like, oh my God, I'm on X.

And now I love Elon, but I also, I'm loyal to Trump. And who do I back? And how do I manipulate the situation? And Elon, I'm following particular people and all this kind of, like, here's the deal. If you feel the necessity to to sit around wondering what Elon thinks of you or what Trump thinks of you about taking sides, you think too much of yourself. These people are very. That's exactly right. Like, really, no one gives up. No one gives a rat's ass. Seriously, like, get over yourself. These are two big egos with which I get the richest man in the world, the most powerful man in the world having a catfight. And you know what? You have nothing to do with it. And in the end, if it doesn't matter to the voter, then I don't really

care. And I'm just going to enjoy the fireworks a little bit. There's a very Trump supporting ex account, but he also loves Elon that goes by the name of cat turd. And somebody tweeted out who gets cat turd in the divorce. You know, like we have so much that we're going to have to settle here. But the other rule of politics, too, you're right. Veep more than house of cards is there are no real friends in politics. There are no real friends in politics. And anybody who took the old were BFFs. And I love Donald Trump as much as a non gay man can love. It's like, okay, you know, they love each other as much as two people who are in politics, and Elon has been in politics for the past six months, can love each other. That's until the love expires over something

like the big, beautiful bill. I don't think the big, beautiful bill is ever at risk of causing Mrs. Dr. Shapiro and Ben Shapiro to break up. It's also not at risk of dividing Doug Brunt and yours. Truly, it's not love and it's not real friendship. It's an allyship and it's there until it doesn't work for one or both parties. That's exactly right. I mean, it's a business like any other business. And I think Elon knows that. I think I think Trump knows that. I don't think either of them is personally affected in any deep and abiding way by any of this. I think the one lesson that should come out of this, actually, when it comes to sort of the arguments over the electric vehicle mandate and SpaceX subsidies and all this kind of stuff is actually ideologically Elon is right.

You know, it'd be awesome if the government were so small that you couldn't use it as a giant grab bag of cash for particular policies. But as we say, I think the overwrought drama and people, it is fun to watch. I mean, I will admit that watching the exchanges between like Cat Turd and Alex Jones over who they side with and like Alex Jones literally said to Cat Turd today on X, I'm not part of your cult. And I'm like, I don't even know what's going on anymore. But you know what? I'm just like, I'm just sitting back, popcorn meme, like, okay, you know what? I'm here for the ride. Okay, whatever. Same. We were joking that our, you know, we have this now, a morning news update podcast

that we put out. We were joking that our producers on it last night were like, oh my God, oh my God, like trying to keep up with every iteration. As soon as you thought you had it like done, it wasn't done. There was another iteration coming your way. More of the leftist reaction to this. These are actually kind of laughable and fun. Let's let's check in on AOC and see what she has to say. Any quick reaction on what's going on with Elon Musk and President Trump on Twitter? Oh, man, the girls are fighting, aren't they? I think this record we've been seeing a long time coming, but we'll see what the impacts are of it legislatively. Okay.

They're so cool referring to them as the girls. She's above it all, Ben. That's what she's trying to telegraph. You see, she's the adult in the room. The one out there who does a preacher accent and she leans into her fake Latina accent. And she's the adult in the room. Yeah, again, like Democrats had a good day yesterday, but it isn't that great a day

because their poll numbers still suck. And Donald Trump's poll numbers are stronger than they've been actually for weeks at this point. And so if the best they can do is just enjoy the fireworks the same way you and I are enjoying the fireworks, that doesn't win them any additional votes. It's not as though anyone is going to vote

against Republicans because Donald Trump and Elon Musk are having a fight or vote in favor of AOC because there's some drama happening in the White House. That's not the way any of this works. That's right. Or vote down the BBB. Yeah, exactly.

She has no power. She has no influence. Like 20% of the Democratic Party thinks she's the thought leader. I think Republicans at this point are probably rooting for her to be the thought leader of the Democratic Party because she's the thought leader. I think Republicans at this point are probably rooting for her to be the thought leader of the Democratic Party because it means they have no thoughts. But this sort of, you know, like, oh, my God, the girls are fighting

kind of who thinks that's charming or interesting or fun. Now, she's the mature one. Again, the amazing thing to me, I will never get over the fact that the Democratic Party has been given some actual opportunities if they wanted to attack the Trump administration to do so. But they can't let go of their insane radicalism long enough to do it. It really is like an amazing, incredible thing. They're still out there doing the trans athletes in sports and illegal immigrants need health care routine. And meanwhile, Donald Trump is actually getting things done with executive orders and major legislation on the foreign policy front. You could imagine a world where the Democratic Party was not insane and they actually were able to somehow twist this into a broader narrative. But they just have no capacity to do it.

Oh, Chris Murphy's out there. OK, he says the following. When 15 million Americans lose their health care and plunge into personal crisis, none of them are going to give a shit. This is his new things to drop swears. He thinks it makes him relatable about a made for clicks, Twitter fight between two billionaires, blah, blah, blah. Okay. Get, get boys out of girl sports. You disgusting pervert. I'm sorry, but anybody who enjoys watching that there's something wrong with them. There's something wrong with Chris Murphy. No, like take a seat until you know how to protect 12 year old girls. You can be quiet. No one wants to hear your opinion about anything. And then I'll give you this one

from my old pal over the New York times, Lulu Garcia Navarro. She's, she's not really my pal, but she interviewed me and I actually liked her, but she's a leftist and saying leftist things about the Trump Elon fight. Here's what she said on CNN. I have so many thoughts about this. So, you know, I think this is bad for Musk. I am, if you look at the history around the world of authoritarians breaking up with their oligarch buddies, those oligarch buddies don't end up in a good place. They either end up impoverished, imprisoned, or dead. I'm not saying that that's going to happen to Elon Musk here, but the power is with the government. You saw Donald Trump immediately say, all right, we're going to take away your, you know, contracts.

Impoverished, imprisoned or dead. I'm not saying that's what is going to happen, but that's typically what would happen in this kind of a fight. Everybody needs to calm the F down. Seriously, just calm the F down. And it's not just her, by the way. Like, I know Steve Bannon is just enjoying himself wildly.

And Steve is having, like, Steve's orgasmic over this because Steve, for months, has been- Can I play you some? Can you just hold that thought? Forgive me, because we have a little bit of that that and here's, let's play the audience. What we're talking about. Stop four from Bannon last night. President Trump should be taking immediately. I think when he threatens to take one of the big programs out of a SpaceX president,

Trump tonight should sign an executive order, uh, uh, calling for the defense to production act to be called in SpaceX and seize SpaceX tonight before midnight. And he said that Trump should deport Elon, who Steve is convinced lied about the facts in order to get his citizen application approved. Steve is so thirsty to be in the White House. He is so thirsty. And listen, again, Steve and I don't get along. I agree with some of the things Steve says. And Elon and he don't get along. Well, he hates Elon.

I mean, like really hates Elon. Yeah, hates him. And so from the day that Elon had influence of Trump, he's been waiting for this moment to kind of insert himself back into the narrative. But I love that the way that Steve does that is always by taking the most outrageous possible position. We should put him in jail and then we should slate him for execution the next morning by firing his company. We should we should nationalize all of SpaceX and

Tesla just for good measure, just to F with them. We should take X and we should reverse merge it into truth social. Like, come on, really, Steve? Really? Like, OK, I get it. I get it. Stop being so thirsty. President Trump will eventually return your phone calls. Like, really? It was fun. All right. So over on Team Sanity, that's that's AOC. That's what she would tell you. The Dems are or Chris Murphy that they're they're now Team Sanity. They're having debates about the immigration problem that include terms like undocumented citizens. Just let that sink in. Undocumented citizens, a term that was actually dropped on CNN last night. Listen to it here. Scott Jennings is involved. Bakari Sellers is involved. And then Kat Abugazela, a Democrat, Illinois congressional

candidate on free health care for illegals. Watch. Everyone deserves health care. Even illegals? Every single person in the world deserves health care. Just for the record, as a candidate, you're for illegal aliens getting Medicaid. I think everyone in the world deserves health care. That's a yes. That's a yes. Can I start my logic train with you? Are you for it or not? My logic train starts with the fact that I don't want to I don't want to kick 11 million people off. Do you want illegal aliens on or not? Do I want to?

First of all, do I want undocumented citizens to have health care? The answer is yes. Oh, God, that that is not a thing, Ben. No, it is not. In fact, you need to have your documents to be a citizen. And that is that is oxymoronic. I mean, it's it is amazing. This is on the moronic. They literally cannot just let go of their far left priors. And it's going to sink them. It truly is. Again, if you are strategizing this out, if you're a Democrat,

what you'd be strategizing out right now is something where you say, look, the economy could be soaring right now. Instead, the economy is sort of wavering right now. And that's because of the tariff war or that's because of the cozy relationship between business and Trump and all of their people who are getting rich while the American workers being left behind. You could you could try to trot something out like that, but they can't do it. Instead, they're arguing over where they're undocumented citizens, which, which again, makes literally zero sense, literally none. And it's, it's like saying felonious innocent, like that, that's not how it works. They do it, trotting that out. And that's your pitch. This is your big pitch for getting back in the game. This, this is it. This is your thing. When you see the numbers, like the polls that show

the American public is so overwhelmingly in favor of yes yes, deporting all, not just the criminal illegals, they're all criminal illegals, but the extra criminals, like who have committed murders and rapes and child molestation. But all of them, all of them. So here's a little bit more from that same debate because it descended into being about slavery. Okay, watch. Scott, do you think that your family was born here? You weren't born here, Scott. I was born in. First of all, where did your family you were born here you weren't born here scott i was born in first of all where's your what's your family come from my family wasn't born here our country is built on immigration period what kind period what kind oh and well first of all before

we go to commercial what kind what kind of immigration was i brought here already in the hole you sure you want to stop because it No, because it was slavery. That's not immigration. Come on. Well, come on. What? There's a lot to be said. Hold on. No, no, no. But you just can't say come on when somebody's like my family was brought here in chains. The answer is not come on. What? This is what the left always does when you have them against the wall. They play the race card. That's their favorite thing to do. Or it could be the identity card, it being Pride Month. That's a favorite for the month of June. But he was trying to make the point we were not built on illegal immigration. The country was in a very different position because that's what the left always wants to say. We're built on

immigration, built on immigration. We weren't importing against the law, against US policy, a bunch of criminals from Venezuela. That's not how the United States was built. Right. And again, it seems kind of insulting to actually the descendants of slaves to compare people who are literally brought here in chains against their will to people who are voluntarily, illegally crossing the border and then receiving government benefits. That doesn't seem like the same thing to me at all, actually. It's a bizarre argument for certain. But again, just demonstrates that the Democrats, they cannot get out of their own way. They cannot get out of their own way. They're so ideologically tied to this intersectional view

of what politics has to be that and hoping that there's some deus ex machina that basically saves it. I think that's really what's happening partially with this Elon Trump fight and them hoping this is the deus ex machina, that this is going to be the event from the outside, the exogenous shock that somehow is going to wake Americans up to the fact that Trump is crazy and Elon is crazy and the entire Republican Party is so crazy. And then they'll like move back into our category. Guys, whatever is going on between Elon and Trump in half as crazy as the proposition that boys are girls and America ought not have a southern border. Right on. By the way, Trump tweeted out the other day that Joe Biden died in 2020 and that this version of him is like fake. So if that like that didn't really convince anybody that that was a day ending and why in the current political era.

So no one's going to believe Trump's crazy. He says crazy things to get a rise out of people to entertain us. But but they haven't been able to sell that thus far. Here is the other piece of the Democrat problem. They're elitist snobs. And all these policies, they're desperate. And we see this with some of the Chamber of Commerce Republicans too. They're desperate to keep these illegals here because they really do want them to mow their lawns. That's how they see it. It's like they always say, who's going to mow your lawn? Who's going to take care of your garden if we don't have illegals here? And now we have this nutcase. Videos from Vermont Daily Chronicle, Democratic Representative Becca Ballint,

and an appearance the other day putting an even more interesting spin on it in Sat 9. We have to come to a place in Congress where it is no longer a political issue, but we see it as an existential issue for the country. If we don't have avenues for people to come here legally to work or to build a home here, I'm going to be really rude right now. We're not going to have anybody legally to work or to build a home here. I'm going to be really rude right now. We're not going to have anybody around to wipe our asses because we don't have enough people. Oh, my God, Ben. That's a take.

That's a take. Got to have some people here legally so they can wipe some asses. That's a take. I mean, I assume that Biden family has enough money that they can hire people who are illegal to wipe the ex-president's ass. But that is like this is I love that if a Republican ever said that about illegal immigrants, it would immediately be the most racist thing you ever heard. And Democrats just kind of drop that stuff out there as though it's totally normal. And then everybody just kind of goes about their business. It really is an amazing thing.

So we've heard in the last 10 minutes that illegal immigrants are akin to slaves and also that illegal immigrants must be here to wipe the butts of Americans. And that's somehow, wait, were the, like our party's the racist party? I'm really concerned about Becca Ballant. Does she not know how to wipe her ass?

Cause I don't know how she's made it to this point in adulthood. Well, I mean, to be fair, she's in Congress. That's that, that, that I'm not going to go there. That's, that's, that is quite possible. A significant percentage of Congress does not know how to wipe, wipe their own ass. That is, that is accurate. But here's the big question.

Who is, who has a dumber general collection? General, like if you average the IQ, which group would be dumber? Members of Congress or members of the media? Oh, God. Wow. I know. Even with your IQ, that's a tough one to answer.

Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, I believe that zero, that you can't go below it in terms of IQ. So now you're asking me to compare zero to this. It's like comparing infinity to infinity. Like, the number is equivalent. I'm not sure that we're in negatives. Okay. Well, listen, this might put you over the edge. Um, I'm going to try, uh, hold on a second. There's so many to choose from here that I've got teed up for you. Here is Christiane Amanpour,

who, well, I'll just let the soundbite speak for itself. Stop 19. When I went to Harvard to give this speech, and it was just a few days ago last week, I must say I was afraid. I'm a foreigner. I don't have a green card. I'm not an American citizen. I'm fairly prominent. And I literally prepared to go to America as if I was going to North Korea. I took a burner phone, Jamie. Imagine that. And I was really afraid. I'd even talked to the CNN security person because of this. I've heard that many, including British citizens, have been stopped at the border and questioned for hours and hours. It was scary. Luckily, Jamie, I was welcomed. I mean, the immigration officer at Boston where I came in could not have been nicer. Krishnabh Amarpur, she's worried she's going to get hunted down in the street for being

a British citizen. Yeah, and she's the international reporter. I mean, she should try going to many of the countries that she covers and see how she's treated there. But by the way, I'm going to go full Steve Bannon here. We totally should have arrested and deported her. Sure. Why the hell not? He's not wrong about everything. He's not wrong about everything.

I mean, and by the way, she thought she was going to be treated badly at Harvard. At Harvard? Like, really? Okay, I went to the law school over there. Christiane Amanpour, basically, they have a statue of her at the Harvard School of International Relations or at the Kennedy School of Government. Like, what absolute horseback? She was scared.

I'm sure she was deeply fearful. I'm sure it was like traveling into Syria or something. I got another one for you. We deserve this fun today, Ben Shapiro. We deserve it. We work hard for a living. We do this every day. Some days are leaner than others, but today is an abundance of riches. I give you Whoopi Goldberg on Maryland Governor Wes Moore. He is a black man

who many thought, well, still think could be the Democrat nominee, although officially he said he's not interested. But listen to this. You know, you have someone like Wes Moore, who is a perfect candidate. I love Wes Moore. Oh my gosh. And people are saying, well, he, you know, you have someone like Wes Moore, who is a perfect candidate, you know, and people are saying, well, he, you know, you can't elect a black man. Why not? Well, I'm just, but I'm saying, you know, what I like about Wes Moore, for example, he thinks outside of the box. People are saying you can't elect a black man. Literally no sane person is saying that. Well, I mean, we did twice. So, I mean, that's, that's kind of, that's kind of weird. And then we, and then they tried to have us elect a black lady after their candidate died. So I, yeah.

And we did elect that black lady twice as our vice president. Well, once as our vice president and once as a U S Senator. Right. That, that, that is true to our, to our great and everlasting shame and discredit. But yes, the most intelligent people at the view, the view collective IQ, president and once as a U.S. senator. That is true to our to our great and everlasting shame and discredit. But yes, the most intelligent people at The View, The View, collective IQ, negative. Again, we might have to tip the scales in favor of Congress as being the smarter group. I hate to do it. I mean, I know Jasmine Crockett is there, but I'm just sorry. We've got Jim Acosta, Ben. I'm afraid we're going to have to wave the white flag. Fair enough.

Thank you for participating and for jacking up our average. It's a pleasure, my friend. Take care. Good to see you. All right, coming up next, the ladies from Red Scare. Grand Canyon University, a private Christian university in beautiful Phoenix, Arizona, believes we are endowed by our creator with certain unalienable rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. GCU believes in equal opportunity and that the American dream starts with purpose.

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Visit gcu.edu. While we enjoy the temporary mean girls fight happening between the world's richest man and the world's most powerful one, the martinis are back, and so are the ladies from the Red Scare podcast. Here with me in studio again, Anna Katchian and Dasha Nekrasova. Ladies, welcome back. And all best wishes to you on your new marriage. Thank you. That's amazing. So you got married just in May or? Yeah, about a month ago. Oh, how's it going so

far? So, so good. I mean, they call it the honeymoon phase. Yes. I love being married. How long were you engaged before you? Oh, beautiful. Look at that picture. Oh, yeah.

Where is that? Where is that? That's at my church in the East Village. Oh my gosh, gorgeous. Oh, wow. How long were you guys together before you got married? About a year. We got married pretty quick.

That's good. That'll do it. Yeah. You want kids or? Oh, good. Yeah. I bet you make a great mom. Did you go?

Of course. Yes. Okay. Though our haters were speculating that I didn't because I was absent from the pictures because I was so busy taking pictures of everybody. This is one of my fears as a mother. Can I tell you this? That like, I'm always taking pictures of my kids

and Doug and the moments together that I worry someday they're going to look back and be like, she was never there. What do you mean? Who do you think was holding the camera? Exactly. It's like that footprints thing with the Lord. They're carrying you.

Anyway. Okay. What do you guys make of the Elon Trump mean girls dust up? I was begging and pleading with my friends anyway. Okay. What do you guys make of the Elon Trump mean girls dust up? I was begging and pleading with my friends in the group chat this morning to give me like a summary of the bill. The bill sounds good overall. I'm sure with like bill big bills like that, there's always some filler. I think that he flew too close to the sun. He like overestimated his power. Yeah. Because I think like he is a guy who, you know, he we have to be grateful to Elon because he did buy Twitter.

He was a top donor to the Trump campaign. I think he really wouldn't have won without. Yeah, I really playing with fire. Well, that was the crazy part, because I think he really did, for example, move the needle and getting a lot of the other tech moguls like Bezos and Zuckerberg to come around to the right more. But when he's talking, when he's like going on the computer and talking about that Trump should exercise a little bit more gratitude, he sounds like an ungrateful immigrant. Right. He said so ungrateful or something. Yeah. Which was. He seems like a scorned lover. Yeah. Yeah. Which was he seems like

a scorned lover. Yeah. You're you're at risk of seeming like a bitter ex. Yeah. I mean, there's part of me because I have a little bit of a paranoid streak that thinks it's all a little bit of theater and K-Fab, perhaps. What do you mean K-Fab? What is that? Like from wrestling where they like are kind of stunting. OK. But they all, everyone knows that it's fake. Trump's always doing a little bit of that. Yeah. I mean, I don't know if you, I feel like Elon, he's erratic. Very much so. And so I feel like he probably did feel attacked when they yanked his NASA nominee. He didn't like that. He reportedly almost came to blows with Scott Besson over who was going to head up the IRS. Elon wanted that whistleblower. He's a good man. Gary Shapley, who was one of the ones who blew the whistle on how they were slow rolling the investigation into Hunter Biden and

that Joe Biden DOJ was not letting him and his team of investigators actually figure out what Hunter did in time for a criminal case to be brought. So he's a heroic man in my view. And Elon reportedly was behind him as the head of IRS, but Scott Besson didn't want him. He wanted, as Scott Besson is at treasury, obviously the IRS is under his purview ultimately, and he wanted his own guy. And reportedly they almost came to actual blows in the White House. So I think Elon is, he's got an explosive temper. Yeah. And he was pissed that his NASA proposal guy who was well on his way to getting chosen and confirmed got yanked because OMB decided it wasn't the right guy. And the guy was actually a Democrat. Ben Shapiro and I were talking about it a little bit. I think Elon didn't appreciate that. I think Elon genuinely does hate the big, beautiful bill. Yeah. He wants a slim

bill. He said slim, slim and beautiful. Yeah. I mean, I don't think it's really like about deficit spending. Oh, cheers. Yeah. It's about deficit spending. Not for him. Like people are saying it's about the NASA appointee, the EV mandates and so on and so forth. I think that he just really miscalculated his role in the administration, his place in the organization, his place in the cosmos, because he's obviously a very smart guy who's a little bit autistic and retarded and I think he's made the classic error where he thinks because he's had like you know some not some but a great deal of success and has some a lot of expertise in certain particular fields that this kind of translates to some greater wisdom or omniscience

across the board. Well, and especially when you're talking about politics, it's its own animal in the same way Trump should not spend six months at, you know, SpaceX and try to advise Elon on how to make rockets. Like Elon is on thin ice spending six months in politics trying to tell Trump how you get legislation through, what can be done. I mean, the whole thing is always so ugly and disgusting and a turnoff. That's politics. Well, Bannon's probably feeling pretty vindicated. Bannon's feeling really happy.

Because he's been harping about the tech oligarchs. Yeah. Batya Angers Sargan, same. She's been, she writes now for the free press, but she's a Democrat who's a Trump voter and very focused on the working class. And she's not an Elon fan. There's this guy, Dave Marcus, who used to come on this show, but then he got hired for Fox by Fox. So now he can't come on, but he's, he's skeptical about Elon. A lot of guys who are really like in touch with the working class. And I would include all three I just said, have been very skeptical of Elon and thinking that this whole thing is about Elon pushing Elon's interest, not this fight, but his whole alliance. I don't believe that.

Yeah, he seems like autistic enough that he believes he believes about in some like greater principle or ideal. I don't think strictly about it. He's also calculated. He's not going to do something that's against his interests. Right. Except for having this huge crash out. Well, or getting political in the first place was dangerous just because look what happened at Tesla. But the truth is, you know, Elon, I saw him last September, September of 2024, at the All In Summit out in California. And I mean, his big issue was we're going broke, we're going bankrupt, and that we have to find ways to save within this federal government or we're going to go bankrupt. And, you know, the politician attitude is kick

the can down the road until we are bankrupt it's really someone else's problem it's like sustainably unsustainable forever and ever until it's not and obviously like with this bill as a friend of mine pointed out trillions of dollars yes 37 trillion 10 years you said and obviously it's going to raise it three trillion more over the course of 10 years unless unless gdp spurs like it gets spurred by the tax cuts and it goes up proportionally but i mean it's obviously the the spending cuts will not be enough to offset the tax cuts as i understand it is this bill getting passed in the first place it is okay yep it's going through but trump is banking on like what happened in 2017 is Trump lowered that corporate tax rate like by double digits.

He lowered taxes across the economic spectrum. The poor who barely pay taxes to begin with all the way up to the uber wealthy all got a tax cut and the economy got chugging. I mean, it was great before COVID hit. It was great. And he's banking on the same thing happening now. He doesn't listen to it is a left leaning CBO, congressional budget office that scores how much will be added to the deficit. And they don't really bake in the American worker engine of like this is going to make people hire truly. If if I get to keep the tax cuts I got in 2017, by the way, net net, my taxes went up because in the tri-state region, we had the salt deduction taken away.

It was whatever, fine. But I will hire. I'd be more likely to hire than I would to fire. Like if they jack my taxes up, I'm not going to take the hit. I'm probably just not going to hire an additional body. I mean, that makes sense. And with the deficit, I just don't think normal people even really understand. When you're talking about like trillions of dollars, people can't even really conceive of that.

And it just isn't, I know it sounds naive, but I just don't think it's that big of a deal. It's like when you're in debt. The debt ceiling. I know. Let's, sure, raise it. I know, right? Have you been in bad debt at all, ever? So I was just law school.

I was taking on over a hundred thousand dollars of debt and I was paying for it myself. And, uh, you know, you, it gets a little scary cause you're not sure you're going to get a good job at the end of this. You hope you will. Um, but I remembered that feeling and you go without, right. You can't buy anything. I lived in a very crappy apartment and I was not buying, I couldn't really buy whatever you frivolous spending streets where you go to like the clothing store and you get a cute new outfit. Or what my big goal was, I wanted to be able to go into Pottery Barn and buy what I wanted. I was looking forward to that as a goal. Anyway, my point is I couldn't buy anything.

But if the credit card company had come to me at the time and said, we'll raise your limit by 10 grand and you can buy one of them, I would have said yes. You're investing in yourself. You have to spend money to make money. That's one of the only things I know about economics. That's how we keep our business afloat. Well, talk about that. What do you mean? Like, what do you do?

As an actress, does this mean like investing in your looks and making sure you stay atop the field? That's how I justify. Yeah. I mean, yeah, you can't hoard your resources. You have to allocate them towards yourself in a spirit of prosperity and abundance. Okay. Which Donald Trump's. Yeah.

I mean, it sounds. He's a prosperity gospel guy. He is. It sounds kind of like easy when we say it, but like if you are not anxious about money, you tend to make money. Anxietywood what is um gwen stefani uh there's chris kardashian there's anne hathaway um who else am i missing mid-plane facelift okay what is that i don't totally know but it's less wait deep plane right deep plane is that what it's why don't they have any scars those close-ups they go behind the ears. I saw a close-up behind her ear and I saw nothing. Huh.

I think they're doing like a deep plane, which is when they not only stretch the skin back, but they move the muscle underneath. Is this new? Because why did those face lifts, if that's what we're talking about, look so much better than everybody else's? I think I'm sure there's been some like advancement in the technology. And I suspect they're also probably just doing fat transfers. So they're taking fat from somewhere in your body and re-injecting it in their face yeah i want that me too that solves my problems at once not really though because the truth is if you ever see somebody's had like too much lip liposuction it just looks weird like the skin yeah and by the

way those fat cells then have to regrow someplace else. So if you overeat, you know, suddenly you have fat elbows instead of thighs, which looks normal. You know? I mean, Anne Hathaway looks fantastic. She's never looked better. She looks unbelievable. And also Christina Aguilera, Lindsay Lohan, they all have. Yes, that's another one. Lindsay Lohan in particular.

She claims she drinks like lemon water. Maureen Callahan went off on this it was amazing water sure water that's staying hydrated that's that'll do it it's so ridiculous yeah i think that they also probably have like they probably do a lot of like red light therapy and lasers and it's also just like photography lies and they're like filtered at all times. And if you saw them in real life. The other one I want to know about is Jennifer Connelly. Nothing. What about her? She looks so good. Well, she was in Dark Matter. I don't know if you guys watched that, but it was great. I worked with her. You did? Yeah. Wait, in what? We did a film together called Bad Behavior. Oh. And I really, she's actually, maybe she's had like minor tweaks,

but really like she's just aged so well and is so beautiful. It's incredible. If you see her in Dark Matter, she's got like, the chin is like. Oh, that's the Roosevelt Island. And then down, you know, it's like, she's my age and she looks so good.

No, it's the one, this guy, the theory of Dark Matter is this guy comes up with sort of a way to time travel. You go into this black box and you go to an alternate universe in which you might already exist. Like you could sort of spy on another version of yourself. this guy has created like an infinite number of alternatives of himself running around to the point where you no longer really know who the original is because every clone has exactly the same memories and childhood experiences of the original, thus kind of wiping out the original entirely. Like there's no more like patient zero because they all have the same. It's bizarre and it's great. and i'm not generally into sci-fi but i recommend this one like it yeah it's out now this sounds like michelle

wellbeck possibility of an island where the protagonist corresponds with his future clones over time it's like a similar if you could clone yourself would you no no no i'm ready to die i don't care no i might do it? And then do what with your clown? Ask the person for advice. I just think it'd be cool. First of all, my life would be a lot easier. But I think we will all be cloned in the future because we're going to be AI deep faked. Can I tell you, like several rich people I know, I mean like very rich, are cloning their dogs.

Yeah. Didn't Malay do that? The Argentinian. Oh, did he? Javier? Yeah. He cloned his, oh yeah. He was like in love with his German shepherd or something.

And he's like had four that are all. I can tell you for a fact, I will not be cloning Stradwick, my dog. Okay. So back to New York City where I lived for 17 years. You live now. There's a lunatic running for mayor and I saw that he got your attention. So he's one of these Democrat socialist types. He's not, he wasn't born in America. Here are some fun facts about him. This is not exactly a New York City story. It's a leftist insanity story. Here are some facts about him. His name is Zoran Kwame Mamdani.

He's a New York State Assembly member. He's running for mayor. He wants to freeze the rent, make buses fast and free, and deliver free universal health care or child care. It's free. Free. Trust me. You won't have to pay a dime. He was born and raised in Uganda.

He moved to New York City, age seven. He graduated from the New York City public school systems, attended the Bronx High School of Science. He became a naturalized American citizen in 2018. He represents the 36th district in this New York State Assembly, which is an immigrant heavy slice of Queens. And he wants to be mayor. Well, they just had their first televised debate in New York and he had a lot of fun things to say, including, hold on a second. Yeah. What is it? 46. I lost my, my soundbite sheet. Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. Let's do that. 46. Take a listen to him. I am Donald Trump's worst nightmare as a progressive Muslim immigrant who actually fights for the things that I believe in. And the difference between myself and Andrew Cuomo is that my campaign is not funded by the very billionaires who put Donald Trump in D.C.

Donald Trump would go through, Mr. Mondami, like a hot knife through butter. He's in government for 27 minutes. He passed three bills. That's all he's done. He has no experience with Washington, no experience in New York City. He would be Trump's delight. OK, Trump's delight. What do we think of him? Well, people have been screaming at me for days now because they're like, why are you so negatively obsessed with this guy? Is someone paying you to uh insult him and i'm like i live in new york i have a kid he's running for mayor um he probably won't win i'll insult him for free but come on

and he's that clip dasha shared it on twitter a couple of days ago when i was we were coming home from some event and it really put me in a bad mood. That kind of like media trained decision to turn to the camera and brag about being a progressive Muslim immigrant in that voice. That's like a mixture of vindictive righteousness and nervousness. It really got me going. Mining for like a little moment a little viral moment and i just i'm so insulted really by his policies that they're really like they're so flagrantly empty rhetoric like lip service to progressivism you know they're like low-hanging fruit rent freeze which like yeah that sounds so good but it really only applies to already rent stabilized

apartments that already can only be raised a certain percent and like yeah rent-free would be great but it's not the most important issue in New York free buses anybody who's working will have to pay yeah I mean I can sound off on the free buses because this is a boutique issue that's very low on the political wish list of most people in New York City. And we have bigger problems in New York City, such as given how high the cost of living is in New York City, we have a real rampant vagrancy problem. There are like homeless people being menacing, threatening on every block. Not to mention relieving themselves in all ways in the middle of the sidewalk. Yeah, I live downtown. The playground next door to me is completely taken over by homeless crackheads. And, you know, I said this on Twitter, but this is like a homelessness incubator to to promote a policy of free buses. And the bigger issue with that is that these policies are basically designed for people who already live subsidized or free in New York City.

They are for the poor and who will be picking up the tab. He's like a Brandon Johnson. He's like a Chicago mayor for New York. He wants to do to us what's happened there. Here's another piece from him. It's a campaign ad in SOT 48. I'm Assemblyman Zahran Maldani, and I'm running for mayor to freeze the rent for every rent-stabilized tenant. Wait, you're going to freeze my rent? Yes. Did I hear rent freeze?

Yes. This guy's going to freeze the rent. No hike? None. This guy's going to freeze the rent. It's true. As your next mayor, I will freeze your rent. Paid for by Zoran for NYC. I mean, I never thought I'd say this, but I'll take Andrew Cuomo.

Yeah, or Eric Adams. I'll take anybody over this guy. Yes, Eric Adams. I'm only joking, by the way. Don't vote for Andrew Cuomo. Yeah, or Eric Adams. I'll take anybody over this guy. Yes, Eric Adams. I'm only joking, by the way. Don't vote for Andrew Cuomo. Vote for Eric Adams. He's the best option there is. Well, he's running as an independent.

I don't even care if he's a grafting criminal. I don't either. I don't either. This guy is, I'm so shocked. Cuomo's a criminal. And I mean, I believe because of what he did to the nursing homes. And you've got Eric Adams who at least is starting to see the light and has at least a background as a cop. And then you've got this lunatic like this guy frees the rent.

Like you say, like what what portion of New Yorkers have rent subsidization? Like most people are paying through the nose. I do. You do? I do. And I still wouldn't rent stabilization is lot of what New Yorkers actually have. Yeah. God, I never had that even in my lowest earning days.

You might have. You might have not earned your rights. Technically, if you live in a building that's more than six units that was built before 1970 or something, they can't raise your rent more than 2% on a year lease, 5% on a two-year lease, et cetera. I did not have that. When I first moved to New York, I moved downtown. This is 1997, okay? I was a very young lawyer, and I moved to New York. And this is, you know, I used to go hang out in the World Trade Center and get my coffee and read the paper over there.

That's how long ago this was. And I was right next to Trinity Church, which is where Alexander Hamilton is buried. And it was down in the financial district, which now has had some more development, but at the time was absolutely barren, you know, just complete concrete jungle. I'll never forget moving in there because it was so stark and not warm, just cold, white concrete everywhere. And I was 26 and I had one of those moments that you have in life where my phone wasn't on, my electricity wasn't on, nothing worked yet. Everybody had been supposed to, they were supposed to have arrived that day to turn it all on and

they didn't. So it was dark. I had my boxes and I had concrete jungle around me and I walked to a hotel, the Millennium Hotel down there. I'm trying to remember now. And I called my mom on a pay phone. Okay. Like cell phones just started on 95 and I called my mom crying. Like I felt so scared and alone and like, what have I done? I don't know if it's a good idea. And my mom was so great. She said, you need to get some family pictures up. You need to tomorrow. First thing, figure out where your grocery store is, figure out where your dry cleaner is smart. Like take a walk around the block, familiarize yourself with your new neighborhood, take a deep breath and welcome to adulthood. Yeah, it was great. You know, I was like, so anyway, I don't know why I'm telling you this story, but that was my life in downtown New York. And it

definitely was not rent subsidized. And sadly, after the world trade center went down on 9-11, one of the planes engines was found on top of my old building. That's how close it was. Thank God I had left. I had left in 2000, right before. So it's like by divine right order, I wasn't down there at the time. Were you guys living in New York back then? You were young. No. You were children.

We were, I was in high school and Dasha was probably in elementary school. Yeah, yeah. These are the moments. She was in kindergarten. Very long in the tube. No, but that, like the 9-11 thing too it's just crazy that um you know new york city uh experienced 9-11 and now we have this dsa candidate who's like panning to the camera and saying i'm a progressive muslim immigrant his whole provenance is very sketchy

he's launched this like ostensibly grassroots campaign with his funding that he gets as a secret intelligence asset i'm sure uh his parents uh he only as a secret intelligence asset, I'm sure. His parents, he only became a citizen, as you mentioned, in 2018. Didn't seem to care much about citizenship up until then. His parents are like these kind of global citizen types. His mother is a, you know, it's a female filmmaker, Friday. She's a famous filmmaker. His father is a academic who has like cushy sinecures at Columbia and the University of Uganda. Naturally study his specialty is Africana studies and colonialism. It is he I think, you know, their attitude, as my friend, you know, Stepman pointed out, out was that I love her citizenship is kind of a minor administrative matter,

a trifle. And that's kind of the attitude that he held until recently, as she says, up until the point that he decided he wanted a position of power in the United States. Does he have a chance? I haven't been following the polls that closely. Well, he has a chance because I've hated on him so much that the leftists are going to come out in droves.

So if he wins, my bad. No, he's pulling. AOC endorsed him. Yes. That's scary. It's reason enough to vote against him. Well, he's like AOC deja vu. I mean, it takes me back to 2018 when we got in trouble because we were critical of the AOC campaign ad where she's switching from sneakers to heels on the subway and bragging about

being a barista or a bartender or whatever. And you could tell that it's totally fake, astroturfed. I really can't believe that anybody is falling for DSA candidates in 2025. I know. Neither can I. It's so ridiculous. Especially after the day after 10-7, they were in the middle of Times Square chanting, it's all Israel's fault. Like, okay, this is kind of the end, I think. They were outside my apartment because I live by the Egyptian embassy. They were writing piss real on the sidewalk.

Wow. October 8th. Wow. Ben Shapiro back in here. Yeah. What would he say? I'm sure he would not be a fan of the DSA. I can't believe they still exist.

All right. Let's shift gears because there's a lot more to go over. Jon Hamm is resurrecting his... He's having a renaissance of sorts in his career. He kind of went silent after Mad Men for many years. By the way, whatever happened to

Anthony... Not Anthony. Andrew... Matthew Weiner. Matthew Weiner. He was the genius behind Mad Men. Oh yeah. He wrote it. He was the showrunner. And then he kind of just like went away.

He's just counting his money. But that's how Jon Hamm became famous, Mad Men. And he was brilliant as Don Draper. And now he's back in this Friends and Neighbors. Have you seen it at all? No. All right. We just started watching it, Doug and I.

Okay. And it's very interesting. He's like a down on his luck financial trader guy. I don't remember what area of finance he was in. But on the first episode, he loses his job and you find out he lost his marriage because his wife cheated on him, Amanda Peet. Love her. She's great. Then he, I mean, spoiler alert, but you learned it in the first episode,

he becomes a thief. So he has the advantage of living in this very rich community and knowing all these rich people. Cause he was one like yesterday. Okay. So they don't expect him at all. And he knows when they're all at the local benefits for the children. And he uses those nights to go into his friend's homes and starts burgling

them and stealing watches, et cetera, and then finds a fence, a fence for the stolen goods. Well, apparently we're a little behind. Doug and I are only on episode three, I think, or four. a throwback doesn't matter, but he and Amanda Pete, his ex-wife, go into a church and steal the Eucharist and start snacking on it, which I have to say, even as somebody, I am Catholic and I am observant. We go to church every week. I just had say that as a Catholic. Here's a scene in SOT 34. Here we go. That was upside down. It's in. Now watch. You just give it a look. And I'm taking the lock into Jesus' hands. Shh.

This is a church. It's a house of worship. You have to be very respectful. You're going to hell. Yes. Tell me something I don't know. Oh, they open up the tabernacle they have in your way for a second and they're snacking on them like triscuits are we sure it's a catholic church yes they put jelly on them she's also showing shoulders no the least of their problems i know as a non-catholic i take offense to that this is disgusting i mean i'm also catholic, but I'm not so scandalized.

You don't care. I mean. You're rarely scandalized. Sort of, I guess. Yeah, maybe. But with that, it's like Hollywood is so secularized and hostile to Christianity and then Catholicism especially because it's the main one. So I was going to say, if that's true, they're just so secularized. Where is the film on showing somebody

drawing the so-called Prophet Muhammad? We're going to make it. You should. I'll help bankroll it. We'll be dead by 2026. That's the difference between Islam and Christianity. Catholics are easier targets because of their own scandals and

perceived hypocrisies. catholicism you know through some fault of its own has a lot of like cachet and it's like a sexy bashing priests is like don't leave your daughter or your son alone with them i'd say unfortunately they're i think they did this on purpose to generate some kind of viral outrage. Or whatever. They were like, let's do something. What would be something? I can imagine the writers going, let's do something scandalous.

The Jewish guys and the writers were really pissed at people. I'm not a diehard Catholic. I don't know scripture. I'm not one of those people. I listen to my pal John Rich talk about the Bible and I'm just, I sit in awe just learning, but I am a believer and his little sister, who's a year younger, got confirmed at the same time. As part of confirmation, they made the kids watch one of those videos about how sacrosanct the communion wafer is and how they genuinely, we genuinely believe it is the body of jesus christ right and about how our former pope pope francis came from this diocese in argentina where they did experience a miracle they found a communion

wafer on the floor of the church and somebody brought it to the church or to the priest to say somebody must have dropped this and there's a whole protocol they're supposed to go through when that happens. You have to like lock it up or whatever. And they did that. And the thing was bloodied after a couple of days, they called in an outside agency. They tested it. They found actual like flesh DNA. You can believe or not believe that's, that's, but I'm just saying for catholics we believe that that's the actual body of jesus christ and fuck you for using it for your pr it's a sacrament it's yeah it's whole it's absolutely but i think like people in entertainment understand that they have like plausible deniability because they can say well this is art it's supposed to entertain you titillate you make

you think whatever it is safe it's like it It's like the left loves to practice safe racism against Italians and Irish who happen to make up the bulk of the Catholics in the United States. Right, right. Like, probably arising. My people on both sides. Yeah. I mean, well, charitably, I'll say also, maybe on the next episode, they get struck down by God.

Oh, no, no, I think they do. Yeah. Have you been watching? No, no, I'm just saying. My pal Michael. Maybe they'll learn down by God. Oh, no, no. I think they do. Yeah. Have you been watching? No, no. I'm just saying. My pal, Michael. Maybe they'll learn a hard lesson. Who's on National Review was, and he's very Catholic.

He's a bunch better Catholic than I am. Maybe you too, but I don't know. But he's very devout. And he was saying something bad, something very bad does happen to the characters. And so there you go. Yeah, I do think maybe there's divine right order. That's in service of a plot.

I'm a little tipsy. So I'm just going to circle back to Zoran Mamdani for a minute. It just occurred to me that his parents gave him the middle name Kwame, which has nothing to do with his heritage on either side, to prime him for a life in politics, which is so much more sinister than any of this. That's what we should really be exercised about. Well, Maureen Callahan, who's got a show within the MK Media Network, opened her podcast, which has been a total hit, going off on Jon Hamm. And I was shocked because I loved Mad Men, and I loved Jon Hamm, like most people who enjoyed that show. And she revealed this dark history of the guy where she found the police report where he absolutely hazed to the point of alleged criminality a kid in college.

In the fraternity yes to where the kid had a broken spine and was like tortured by him allegedly according to this police report and it if if one word of it is true the guy's a sociopath i like i was shocked well i can't like it was but if you watch the show, you can sort of see playing the absolute asshole comes very easily to this guy. Yeah, maybe Don Draper wasn't so far out of his range. Maybe he's not a great actor. He's just playing himself. Have you ever been across from somebody like that? You know, you were across from Greg.

He was so good. What's his real name? Nick Braun. Yeah, in Succession. He seems like a genuinely nice guy. Oh, yeah, he is. He's wonderful. I feel like he

couldn't play that level of asshole the way Jon Hamm can. I wonder. Well, he's in that movie, Cat Person. Do you remember that story? I actually haven't seen it. There was a story in The New Yorker that's about like a problematic age gap relationship. They ended up making the movie. But yeah. How many years is too many? For us? I don't know't know well we're on the topic yeah what do you think i mean it's just a number i think it more it just depends it's you know if you're 50 and they're 70 but if you're 10 and they're 30 you know it's not it's not even a moral question it's a practical one especially if you want kids yeah i think it just doesn't really just yeah yeah i don't know like i was surprised when i interviewed caroline levitt that she had a husband

who is 30 years older than she is i think she's 27 and he's wow he's 56 yeah so how did they meet i can't remember she did tell me i think when she was running, she ran for office. She ran for Congress and she met him then. But they fell in love. Now she's got a young baby and it's working. I like when I kind of go by the woman. She seems like she's got her head on her shoulders. Right. So for whatever reason, who knows? You know, like we all have weird things in our past that make us that drive our decision making. If it works, it works. Yeah. So far it seems to be working for her. Yeah. All right. Standby. Uh, we've got to take a break and we're going to sip on these martinis some more and then we'll pick it back up with the ladies from Red Scare next. It was not supposed to get this bad. Speaking of debt, you were on top of your bills, then inflation hit groceries, gas, everything shot up. Prices are up 26% from just a few years ago. It's not necessarily

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with debt strategist before you make another bill payment. It's free. Visit donewithdebt.com. That's donewithdebt.com, donewithdebt.com. Tax day may have passed, but for millions of Americans, the real trouble is just beginning. If you miss the April 15th deadline or you still owe back taxes, the IRS, you should know, is ramping up enforcement. Every day you wait could make things worse. With over 5,000 new tax liens filed daily and tools like property seizures, bank levies, and wage garnishments, The IRS is applying pressure at levels we haven't seen in years. The good news is there's still time for Tax Network USA to help. Self-employed or a business owner, even if your books are a mess, they've got it covered. Tax Network USA specializes in cleaning up financial chaos and getting you back on track fast.

Even after the deadline, it's not too late to regain control. Your consultation is completely free and acting now could stop penalties, threatening letters and surprise levies before they escalate. Call 1-800-958-1000 or visit tnusa.com slash Megan. You may have missed that April 15th deadline, but you haven't run out of options. Let Tax Network USA help before the IRS makes the next move. I'm Megan Kelly, host The Megyn Kelly Show on Sirius XM. It's your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations with the most interesting and important political, legal, and cultural figures today.

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No car required. I do it all the time. I love the Sirius XM app. It has ad free music coverage of every major sport, comedy, talk, podcast, and more. Subscribe now. Get your first three months for free. Go to SiriusXM.com slash MK show to subscribe and get three months free. That's SiriusXM.com slash MK show and get three months free. Offer details apply. We've got to talk a minute about Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni.

I'm very into this whole lawsuit because it's like completely self-destructive of her. I don't know if she's doing this because she has a self-destructive streak or because she just didn't anticipate the backlash she was going to be getting by making these claims but they in my opinion have fallen apart claim by claim well months since she made them i don't know correct me all this started because she was kind of being a bitch on the promotional tour yep sheer public conduct wasn't excellent yeah and so then she tried to deflect by implicating that well people noticed that she had unfollowed him and that he wasn't in any of the cast pictures and meanwhile he's the co-star i mean they're equals in this what is the movie it's about domestic abuse okay and so he's the abuser and she's the abused okay so it so it's like life imitates our... Well, yeah,

that's what she would say. Yeah. But he's the director and it was his film. He directed it. Yeah, he... So he's wailing on her in the film.

Right. Okay. He optioned the book. He got Blake Lively to star in it and then things went south when she claimed she'd been Me Too'd

on the set and they had to bring in... Oh, Josh's dad is going to write a note about this. And I just spilled her martini on herself. So we're getting to that point of the program anyway. So they've been now she filed an HR complaint with the California,

like human rights council and leaked it to the New York times. This is my memory. So double check me. Cause I too am drinking the martini, but leaked it to the girls are Times. This is my memory. So double check me because I too am drinking the martini. But leaked it to the New York Times. You girls are pacing yourself. I'm really not this time. Well, we only have like 10 more minutes to show.

We got to get on it. Yeah. And he filed a defamation lawsuit against the New York Times. Then she, after that, filed a claim against him saying, you harassed me. Then he counterclaimed against her saying, you been defaming me these are lies and now what we saw this week was justin's represented

by my lawyer brian friedman who is who you want if you want to get a bare knuckle bra he's an m effer in the best sense love that um so she filed a claim uh him, a counterclaim for intentional infliction of emotional distress. And these are pretty notorious as bullshit claims in the law. And his lawyers, understandably, did what every defendant receiving one of these claims does, which is file a motion to compel her to turn over her medical records so we could see the distress. Like, okay, you want us to pay you for your distress? What is it? file a motion to compel her to turn over her medical records so we could see the distress. Okay. You want us to pay you for your distress? What is it? What did you say to your psychiatrist? What, what expenditures have you had in like trying to fix it? Like a jury's going to have to figure this out. We're entitled to see it. And she ran into court and said, nevermind.

I want to withdraw that claim. Okay. Okay. So either she just doesn't want us to see her medical records, like what she's been saying to her shrink or the claims or the, I think it's the former. I think she doesn't want us to see the medical records. God only knows what's in there, but he, I mean, her, her made adversary in life now has a legal right to see the records, which is a nightmare for her, but you shouldn't have filed that claim. Any lawyer would have told her this is a dangerous claim because you're going to have to back all these claims up about how poorly, you know, you've been affected, how terribly you've been affected by him. So she goes into the court and says, I want to dismiss those claims without prejudice so that I can refile them all the way up to trial. I decide to. Can you explain that? You're the lawyer.

It just means that when you dismiss it without prejudice, you can always refile. There's no downside to you. You pull your claim. It doesn't reflect poorly on you for having done that? Well, I mean, it might, but she's basically trying to like hedge her bets so that now she could go to a psychiatrist and be like, boo-hoo, okay, here are my records, right? Between now and next March, which-hoo, okay, here are my records, right? Like between now and next March, which is when the trial's scheduled for, she could spend every day in with a shrink being like, Justin's ruined my life. And then maybe she'd refile and be willing to turn over

her records then. I have no idea what's up this woman's sleeve. She's clearly, in my opinion, very devious and not trustworthy. So she asked the court if she could dismiss with prejudice and the court said no. This judge, Lewis Lyman, wrote, citing here from Variety and Tatiana Siegel on June 3rd, wrote that that day Baldoni's motion to compel these materials denied based on plaintiff's representation that the claims will be withdrawn. Blake Lively's request that because the parties have agreed to dismiss her causes of action on this front, the court should exercise its authority to dismiss these claims without prejudice is also denied. The parties must stipulate as to whether the dismissal is with or without prejudice. And the court says if the

claims are not dismissed, the court will stop her from offering any evidence of her emotional distress. So she's not allowed to say she's had all this emotional distress and then not turn over these records so that they can dispute it. So she just got majorly effed. She's not going to, she wanted to proceed with this claim without offering any backup for it. And when his team said, let's see the proof, she pulled the claim, tried to keep the threat over them. And the judge said, that is not going to happen. You're pulling the claim with prejudice, meaning you cannot refile it or your claim stays and you turn over the records, your choice. So, well well she's clearly operating or

i think she's just clearly operating on like a older me too model where those sorts of things wouldn't have been rejected or people would have taken them at face value or someone could have had a you know trial in the media that was then implicated them i guess that's what she was trying to do yeah to give him a trial in the media i remember when i first wind of the story, I didn't fully understand what was happening and still don't understand to this day. I was like, oh, it's like two egomaniacs fighting. But I guess it's her really trying to smear him. To ruin his life. I mean, she's like.

After he had the grace to put her in a movie. I know. And if you read the emails between them and the text, this guy bent over, it was Blake Lively. Nobody really knew who Justin Baldoni was. Great. Bent over backwards

as you would expect to make her happy, to like make her feel good about her weird fashion choices and her, you know, she was a little larger because she just had a baby. Oh, no.

He was so nice to her about it. You know, like, but now in her lawsuit, she paints him as being a complete jerk. Clean it up. Yeah. Yeah.

That's what you get. Man, fellas, no good deed goes unpunished. Honestly. Well, on the subject of physicality, I want to ask you about this. It's in The Cut, which is part of New York Magazine. And they are taking aim at this woman named Liv Schmidt, who's a 23 year old model in New York who encourages her followers to quote, live the skinny girl lifestyle, skinny with an eye at the end of it by following her weight loss advice.

They talk about this young, this 37 year old teacher named Emma who broke up with her boyfriend. She stumbled on this woman's TikTok. Schmidt had more than 600,000 followers. She's very beautiful. It looks kind of like face-tuned Julia Fox. She's hot. They're all face-tuned. But New York Cut is pointing out that in one video, she mocks women who wear sundresses to hide their puffy face and bloated bodies.

And she once reposted a TikTok with the caption, girls be 300 pounds saying I'm a snack, no Megatron, you're the effing vending machine. And they're taking aim at her for fat shaming. And they don't quite understand why she has so many followers who sign up for her DMs and her chat groups when they're trying to lose weight like this gal Emma was, or stay thin and talking about like her advice.

They write about how she gives recipes, workout videos, diaries of everything she eats in a day. Members post their step counts, their meal plans, and their before and after photos. And this gal Emma writes about how suddenly she felt weak and exhausted all the time. She was on the treadmill and she had to get off after a minute, lightheaded and drenched in sweat. She wasn't quite doing that well

and following the weight loss tips and that she, I guess many people feel like it's an unattainable goal, these number of steps and these low-calorie diets, and they experience hair loss and dizziness, and is this really just encouraging anorexia? I've got my own thoughts on it, but I'm more interested in your takes. Well, what's your take?

Well, the eating disorder community is one of the biggest female communities online, and it's existed since the early days of the internet and continues to so i don't know why liv schmidt is getting really the heat for like a culture that exists online around dieting and she doesn't seem like she's even like she's not you know where they're competitive tragically and there are certainly yeah yeah there are and they combine like uh female vanity with like male autism because they're so obsessive about yes maintaining the low weight and like calorie counting and it's not even like fun or cool yeah it's like a cry for help but in liv schmidt's case that doesn't seem to be the case i don't see

what differentiates her from i mean there's so many lifestyle influencers. Well, my own take on it is somewhat jaded because when I was on NBC, I talked to this woman who was like incredibly fit. She just gave birth to three kids and she was basically like, what's your excuse if you don't look amazing? Because she just had three kids and she looked incredible. And this woman was talking about how she kind of regretted the message because she got had three kids and she looked incredible. And this woman was talking about how she kind of regretted the message because she got a bunch of blowback and she was just trying to say, you can do it. She did it inartfully. But sometimes that works for people. Well, I said to her when I was in law school, I used to say, because I lived with my mom and my

stepfather for the last year, I'm like, if you see me get up to go back into that kitchen, please call me fat ass or say something negative to me to keep me out of there. And then it was Meghan McCain, frankly, but many others ginned up a backlash against me for like fat shaming. And I regret to tell you that I then went on the air and like apologized for it. Like, okay, I know. And now with the benefit of like some years between that episode and today, I'm like, you know what? Fuck those people who shamed me. That's how I stay thin and I look good. And I don't judge people who don't go that course, but fuck those people who judged me. It helped me stay in shape and stay healthy. And by the way, not for nothing, but my, the reason I had a stepfather who's now passed is because my actual father died of a heart attack at age 45. So it actually is really important to stay thin and watch your weight. I'm sick of people like, and you're just like me for real. My dad died of a heart attack at 52 because he had, you know, diabetes, heart disease, the whole nine yards. So there are just way more health risks to being

overweight than there are to being underweight. Right. That's just the truth. It's the truth, yeah. Like, okay, you lose some hair and develop osteoporosis. You're not going to have a heart attack. Though there's a cure to osteoporosis, and yet we haven't figured out how to cure heart attacks. But I think people, like, okay, I'll put it this way. I think that people like a Meghan McCain, let's say, who, by the way, I'm a big Meghan McCain truther.

I think she's one of the most beautiful girls out there. She's just a little heavy, but she has great bone structure. That's being a truther? A truther of Meghan McCain. People hate when I say that, but she is cute. I think people who are, like, overweight and struggle with their weight are jealous of people who are willing to have the discipline and the vanity to go through with it that's really what it comes down you're being hurt and shamed yeah and to just take accountability yeah people when our when we first started the podcast that was one of the first points of criticism leveraged against us was that we were fat we know that we were fat phobic that we made disparaging remarks

shaming yeah people or whatever and And how did you handle it? We doubled down. Yeah. Why did I even ask? But here's what's so annoying about it. Like, I come from a long line of fat people. My mother loves it when I say this, but I do. My nana, her mom was obese.

She lived to 101, by the way. She's like crazy. My mom was always overweight. She's now on the thinner side, but she's 83. My sister was morbidly obese and had a gastric bypass. Yeah. So like I have a long line of heavy people who I love. So you're kind of like compensating. Well, no, no. I just feel like I will not be fucking shamed out of my opinion.

Obviously, I have nothing against overweight people. You know, they're the people I've loved most in my life. But I also had my dad die very young on me at a young age. I'm like, I'm just not going to let

this happen to me. I'm going to make different choices so that I can live. That's how I feel. And I also am much more vain than my Nana was or my mom. That's what it comes down to. It's like some of us are more, more vain than the others.

And I think people really resent that because they see vanity as like a very grave sin. And it's really not compared to all the other ones. Yeah. I mean, we all like, I don't see anything wrong with vanity because if it helps you stay thin which is healthy it's fine i mean like all things like it's good in moderation like i think

if the vanity takes over your life and makes it impossible for you to like take care of your children or something like yeah you become a cat woman with the right yeah i i have seen this one like instagram influencer around who clearly has like advanced anorexia and she somehow managed to give birth to children and she oh my god they're like kind of involved in her like brand and that's upsetting and i find that to be upsetting yeah that's it's all yeah mental illness but we've like crossed over from this point of like we we used to bully fat people like when i was growing up in the 70s and that was wrong. I remember instances like that with my mom that upset me like or mean about her.

And I hated that. She's such a good, funny, amazing person. So I would never be that person. In no way would I bully somebody because eating is difficult to control for a lot of people. I would never bully and another thing to make a statement of fact. And I feel like amongst, like, with my family and, like, my other Russian friends, I feel like it is okay to just say, hey, you're fat. I'm telling you that you're fat because I love you. And I don't want you to be fat because you're going to get sick.

Would you say that to your friend? Some of them, yeah. Have you said that to anyone? Eugene. Eugene. Would you say that to your friend? Some of them. Yeah. Have you said that to anyone? Eugene. Eugene. Eugene. Would you say it to Anna? If she got fat, maybe.

If I got fat. If she got fat, I might tell her. You need that friend. Josh is like, you're fat. You need that friend. You need to reel it in. Well, that's the thing now. Like, well, you have a daughter, don't you?

A son. A son. Okay. So it's less, a little less complicated. It's much better because he's naturally really skinny and take it up for his father. Well, you have to think about this stuff when you have a daughter because. Right. You don't want to give her a complex. You don't want to give her a complex. You definitely don't want to encourage an eating disorder, but you want to be honest about like, if you sit down and have a bag of Doritos at 12 o'clock at night, especially as you start to age you will pay for it like yeah i

mean people are very nasty to me specifically and they'll say like it's a good thing she has a son not a daughter because if she had a daughter she would really like ruin her life and her self-esteem but that's like just not true i would uh much like i don't inflict my like uh political and ideological convictions on my child i would would never ruin their perception of themselves because of my own hangups or whatever. But yeah, I think as a parent, you just have to lead by example. It's not like the advice or the discipline you give them. It's how you live your life that really counts. That's right.

Well, what's the point of this whole piece in New York in the, in the, in the cut? I think it's to, you know, under the auspices of taking like a fair and balanced look at this woman's product, what they're really trying to do is shame her for being too quick to participate in shaming young girls who are fat or like shaming fatness in general. Well, now it seems especially like poorly timed because with Ozempic and stuff, like people who are formerly

body positive like Adele or probably some other, they all go, when they can, they do. They lose their weight. Lizzo is going to be thinner than we are soon. What's her name?

Who? Barbie. Barbie Ferreira. Who's she? Which one is that? She was an actress on Fat Girl and Euphoria. She was really pretty,

but her whole plot line was about how she was fat and like, yeah. But now she's shredded. She's slimmed down. Yeah. Of course, very few actually say

that they're doing Ozempic. My hairstylist and I always used to joke that if they really wanted to push those COVID vaccines on people, they would have put some Ozempic in.

People would have been rushing to get the next. I'll take the 25th shot. It's fine. I don't know. I just feel like there's another element to this, to be honest. And it is attractive people have, there are polls, like there are studies that show they do better in society. They get, they're quicker to get jobs. They're quicker, quicker to get promotions. And that can be like, it doesn't mean you have to be like born winning the genetic lottery,

but it means it's better to stay put together. Like put a little makeup on, like a little cover up, like do your hair, buy a nice outfit. Tuck in your shirt. Like have good posture. Walk in there looking put together. And if you can keep your weight, you know, at like a healthy level, it will help. It's not to say you can't be trusted. And while that, if you're an overweight person, again, my own mom has had a life of it. There's plenty of like fat geniuses who

exude insane charisma and very successful and very funny she's always like stop telling everybody i'm fat she's so funny but i'm just saying like what i would like for my kids is that they keep it within certain lines so that they stay well, they're received well, and they feel well. Yeah. I mean, that's the health is really the biggest. But the left is still in a different place of like trying to shame people out of saying that. What do you do to stay thin? I don't eat much.

There you go. Yeah. It's not easy. It's like low-grade calorie restriction restriction which nobody wants to talk about the best thing that ever happened to me was i have my like my primary care physician is is like a fattest he is very against weight gain so i'd go in there and i would have put on two pounds and he'd be like you put on two pounds i was like that's like water weight from like a monday to a thursday yeah and he's like do you know how many two pounds adds up to be over 10 years? You'll never lose 20 pounds.

Then you're fat. That's true. I know he's like really against gaining weight. And it's not because he cares what I look like. It's because he shows me the chart every time I go in there of the number of diseases that go up your risk for all of them as you gain well i think about this a lot because three out of four of my grandparents lived into their 90s and they were always like in relatively good shape and uh my father's generation like the boomer generation really wasn't and there's a bunch of like political reasons for that with regard to the soviet union but a lot of it is just like keeping like they were starving they were starving yeah they were alive during

nep and what do you guys do because you're both thin like how do you stay thin i do weight training that helps if you build muscle i do weight training too i work out personal trainer and i get some muscle on there it will eat i go to the gym every day and like eat moderately like i eat what i want i do pilates occasionally and weight train and i eat i don't like i'm not like a live to eat person anyway so i do you eat three meals a day no that's what my fattest doctor said when i was 46 he goes when you're 50 you're not going to be able to eat at all anymore and i was like well we'll get it all in now not at all like not no more eating and i was like what am i going to do and he said oh mad which stands for one meal a day

oh you know i i've heard that like good i've heard that intermittent fasting and stuff like that is really bad for women specifically it's still heard that, but I do do it, but I don't do it quite as radically as I used to. I stop eating around 8 p.m. That's good. And then I usually have breakfast at 10 a.m. So I'm on a 14 hour. And I like that. And I read Dr. Dale Bredesen's book on the end of Alzheimer's.

He's been on the show. I'm very paranoid about getting Alzheimer's. Oh, yeah. And in your family? No, but I'm just paranoid about it. Like I, like Sandra O'Connor got it on the Supreme court. Like anybody can get it. Yeah. It's a terrible brain. Just cause you got to do the crossword. I'm totally trying. I mean, notwithstanding this martini in front of me, I swear I'm doing everything in my power. No, it's good. But it's like that famous line that I keep quoting from John Cassavetes' husbands.

And he's like, it's not the smoking or drinking that'll kill you. It's the stress. Like if you stress out about things, like you should have like a martini. Every now and then. Every now and then with the girls. Yeah. I don't stress and I do have the martini. So I'm not sure I have the 60s.

You'll be fine. I think so too. I feel like not being a stressed out person is. Well, it also makes you thinner because stress is like cortisol and gives you the midsection. Well, that's the one downside of drinking is you go out drinking. Yeah. Like not now in the middle of the day, but if we were to go out tonight, Friday night, and then wake up tomorrow hungover, we'd all eat too much. Yeah.

That's the biggest danger. No, it the biggest danger. So I don't know. They say like the best exercise is pushing yourself away from the table. I'll tell you what I eat. I generally eat around 10 or 1030 before the show. I just found a great new yogurt. I was eating that Fahe yogurt. It smelled phage. But then Dr. Mark came on and told me you should be eating grass fed, which I didn't even think of in my yogurt. Of course, we all think of that in our milk, but I didn't even think, yes, that's totally right. So Maple Hill, you can find it at Whole Foods. I buy this one. Both organic and grass-fed and Greek. I don't like the regular yogurt. I like the stuff that's a little thicker. So you have a little yogurt. I have that with some berries at around 1030 in the morning. And that gets me through the

show. And then after the show, I usually have like a salad with a little protein in it and like two tablespoons worth of dressing that doesn't have seed oil in it. And then at dinner I have a protein and a vegetable. Yeah. And that's really what I eat. And I do have a little bit of a sweet tooth. Like I will maybe three nights a week have a small thing of like ice cream. Oh, that's fine. Yeah, that's totally fine. And this, this works. Like I feel like that is a very reasonable diet for a 54-year-old. No, there's so many, like, fad diets about avoid air cut, completely cutting out one thing or only eating one type of food.

And that's, I think, very wrong. Do you guys have, like, a general diet that you eat? Tell me what you eat. Well, I'm kind of like, I'm eating more because I'm sort of fertility maxing. Yes, you do. So I so i'm like taking supplements good no that's exciting you know i can't wait until you get pregnant and so yeah i'll drink i'm like drinking a little more milk and trying to like i don't know oh eat like a sweet potato i'm 34 yeah so you get yeah yeah i you're going to conceive this year.

I was 34 when I conceived. So I think, okay. And your son is how old? Four. Okay. So you're 38, 39, 39. Right. So you, well, you still have, like, I don't know if I believe anymore in metabolism.

Like I'm starting to doubt that. No, metabolism is real. I don't know if I believe it. Because you eat. What do you guys mean? Like if you did the omad your metabolism would be worse i think that's right because then your body would be i think your metabolism increases when you do like weight training yes because you have more muscle it's like very basic

like all of this stuff there's so many like fad diets uh influencers esoteric health advice and it's just very basic you have to build muscle and uh moderately calorie restrict yep that's like literally and get eat protein and you can move a little that'd be good yeah yeah it helps having a toddler because i carry him around a lot and it's like a kind of natural, spontaneous weight training. Yes. When I had my three kids, my left arm got so strong because I'm right-handed. But you've constantly got your kid on the other side, on the non-dominant side. So I look forward to your, are you ready?

I am. I look forward to seeing you with that left arm. And have one weird deformed arm. And stronger and stronger. But yeah, I think that's exactly right. And I don't know. I just think like as I've done shows on this, I really believe, notwithstanding what my fattest doctor says, you can eat in your 50s. But I had a pair come on this show. Steve, can you find the episode where we had our friends come on to talk about seed oils? And it was like life changing. I was like,

Oh my God, what am I, what have I been doing? These seed oils I'm convinced are really bad and give you bad fat. That's true. But it's harder to get rid of. It's hard to say because like, we're like Russian.

So we, I think just a lot of seed oil. Well, cause we eat like sprouts and stuff. Wait, so you're backing seed oil? No, no, no, no. I agree with you guys, but like I do fundamentally just.

I don't think it's as bad. I was very, I talked to a nutritionist at one point and I told her, I said something about seed oils and she was like, what are you talking about? She wasn't Maha.

I was like, well, they cause inflammation and she was like, are you worried about inflammation? Yes't Maha. I was like, well, they cause inflammation. And she was like, are you worried about inflammation? Yes. Isn't every woman in person? Well, at this point, I was pretty underweight.

And she was like, you need to. You could be inflamed. She was like, you should just eat and not worry about it. She got a little bit more inflamed than you are.

She's like, don't worry about the peanut butter. Well, they were saying, by the way, I love peanut butter. Sometimes I'll have like an Ezekiel toast or just,

I'm into sourdough now. You get it. Gwyneth Paltrow started eating bread. Did you see that? Who did? Gwyneth Paltrow. I've got a lot of issues with her. Well.

But yes. But you know what? I respect her eating plan. Like I love that she shares it with us. I have to say she's weird and I've got some objections to this woman. But I like that she shares her eating plan and what she's learned and i've got some objections to this woman but i like that she shares her eating plan and what she's learned you can take it or leave it but like i i'd take that any day over these i just drink a lot of water right yes liars yeah bullshit artist does

she still smoke a cigarette once a week or whatever she's lying i hope so i saw her at one of my favorite new york restaurants, Elio's. By the way, if you need a place to go in New York. Don't blow it up. I know. But it's amazing. It's great. It's Italian and it's so good.

Yeah, Upper East. And the pasta, that's what you need to get. It's so good. The pasta that has the ham and the cream and the peas. That sounds amazing. Wait, let me ask you this. Doug, does he, he's just naturally thin. Cause he's a guy. He watches it. So Doug has a sweet tooth. That's his biggest risk, but he always says he's lived his life by, uh, if you put on a few pounds,

cut a meal out or cut a meal in half. I'm like, that is the simplest. And it works. That easy. Right. So he doesn't really do a ton of snacking. That's key. Snacking is kind of the devil. Snacking is the death of all well,

because he loves snacking. It's, it's like, do something else. Drink a glass of water, go for a walk, call a friend, smoke a cigarette, do anything other than go into the pantry. Really? doug is very like he does he'll cut a meal out or he'll cut a meal in half and he's very thin i don't know like in a good way he's like svelte yes i know they're amazing i'm very jealous of men i look at my son he has perfect eyebrows and eyelashes that i would pay good money for. And I'm just like. I literally showed my lash extension girl a photo of my husband's eyes. No way.

Because he has like long. Are you getting the fake lashes on there? I have fake ones on now. So my, but my concern, I had those for a while when I was at Fox and I felt like they were ruining my actual eyelashes. They do a bit, but I had, I have like three things this week. So I just did it. You just did it.

And I did it for the wedding. But usually I wouldn't. It looks natural. They don't look fake. Yeah, they look, so I just did it. You just did it. And I did it for the wedding. But usually I wouldn't. It looks natural. They don't look fake. Yeah, they don't look fake. They're so brown. That's why they're subtle. Oh.

Oh, you didn't go for black? Mm-mm. Oh, that's interesting. No, you can't. Because if you're fair, it just looks weird and kind of trans. Well, I put my makeup on heavily, you know, obviously for the show. Do you do your own makeup? Yeah.

Oh, wow. Yeah. Cool. I don't do my own hair. Well, that's, yeah,, obviously for the show. Do you do your own makeup? Yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah. Cool. I don't do my own hair. Well, that's, that's, yeah, I would do the same. After all these years, like my stylist said, we should teach Yardley, my 14 year old, how to blow out her hair. Cause she's got tons of thick, beautiful hair that she takes after Doug.

And I was like, yeah, you should show her. I have no idea. After 20 plus years in this business, having, watching it get blown out every day when I was at Fox, I have no idea how to plus years in this business having watching it get blown out every day when I was at Fox I have no idea how to do it it's this whole scale either my hair always just looks like shit I don't know how to style it well you want to hear something funny so we're going on vacation next week and we're going to be like on a beach and uh so I have hair extensions in my audience knows I don't make any secret of it okay I was like I was gonna ask oh yeah I couldn't grow hair like this if my life depended on it.

My hair. It's nice. Like, it's nice hair. This is all my hair. And this is some of my hair. But, like, this way down here. And so I'm going to take the extensions out for my vacation because I don't know how to. Oh, my God.

And she's going to give me a halo. Do you know the halo? No. It's like a little. You clip it in yourself? It's like a, it's like picture a headband that's almost imperceptible. And it's got hair on it. So you put it on. I'll show, I'm going to show the audience how to do it when I learn.

Sarah's going to show me on Tuesday. So you put it like under your hair, your actual top hair. And then it kind of hangs down. But that way I can like be myself during the day when we swim and whatever and then is this a couple's vacation or a family vacation it's fam oh that's nice and now that the kids are older you can call your trip a vacation that's true you know when they're four it's a trip right right you're gonna find yourself you have to go to like a resort. Right. And like, it's hard labor.

Yeah. It's fun. You love your child. You love being with them. Well, that's why I went island hopping for my honeymoon. Because I was like, that's going to be way harder to do with a child than something like going to a different place. What do you mean island hopping? Well, I went to Greece.

Oh, yeah. Right. Just throughout Greece. We went in the cyclades um we went to idra ciros tino's but like yeah wrangling a child and getting on a ferry that's like that's something you want to do kind of coupled or alone well what was that like was it like on your honeymoon in greece with your like new husband was it complete was it Shangri-La what was that like yeah no I kept like kind of thinking I having this kind of banal thought but I was like getting married is

so romantic and I feel like that's a lot you know and what's he like he's great he's very um what's he like Anna I mean um he's my favorite of Dasha's boyfriend sure good um who I love them all to death but they're he's very calm he's very he's very gentle kind Christian did you mean not a pushover no he's actually orthodox but yeah he's he's a carpenter no American full American yeah so what he's a carpenter. So how did you guys meet? We met through mutual friends. And like through the art world that he was friends with but had worked for before as well. So he's a carpenter. Was he like at all intimidated by your weird Hollywood life?

I think maybe initially. Yeah, he felt like he didn't really understand why why i was so interested in him um but i always really liked him and he always made me feel really like good your age apropos he's a little older but like two years i just did this long interview with jordan peterson which was actually really interesting i was telling you better like health wise he's better it was a very interesting interview i have to tell you like it was one of the most interesting interviews i've ever given is it live now yeah it's out there on his on his feed i think there's no problem in setting out those honest truths which are

your life will be happier if you have a partner and children. I just think that's just true. And people should be told that, and then they should be told the realities of fertility, because those are realities that, you know, can be potentially meddled with, but there's no guarantee. And if you cannot, if you're one of the people who cannot meddle with it and you missed your window, it will be a lifelong regret that will be unsolvable and will be like a deep source of pain, an ongoing deep source of pain. So it's not something that you could easily brush off. And so all those truths need to be shared while at the same time prizing and sharing the fullness of the rewards of motherhood with young women, which isn't done. He's very, he's brilliant. And he's come on this show a couple of times.

And when he came on the most recent time, we had a great hour and a half where he said all of his things and I loved it. And when it ended, he said something like, you're very useful. What does that mean? It amused me. Well, I think Jordan's very focused and in a good way on what's happening to young men in our culture and i think jordan didn't know if i was like a raging feminist who was kind of the enemy with blood coming out of her whatever well like whether i was like this sort of like I hate men kind of gal. He just didn't know me very well. And so I think he was kind of like checking it out. And when we talked on my show, he heard enough to like satisfy himself that I wasn't a threat to what he stands for.

That was my own take. Then he invited me to go on his show. And he had a lot of negative things to say about like some women, which I didn't totally reject. Like we're not perfect. And we haven't had a uniformly perfect role in society and history and formation of humanity, et cetera. But it was like there was some tension there because I think I'm more bullish on women than he is. Right. So I wanted to give him his valid points, but I also felt somewhat defensive of our sex.

I didn't want us to be grouped and disparaged as a group. men he's addressing an inadequacy that i feel like men because they can't they don't have as much to offer as they used to women don't have the incentives to be as like what do you mean because they're all they're all like rendered well they're all on either side has the incentive to commit to the other side obviously and i don't know women not also yeah they don't want to be like the docile kind of like i don't know petersonian model of femininity because men are not able to rise the occasion to like well let me ask you let me ask you because he said to me he and his wife are coming up with like guidelines for young women on who, and he raises a good point. It was a legit point on how so many go career

and then realize too late, holy shit, totally forgot to nurture relationships. Now I'm 38 with no romantic prospects and my eggs are not great. And I'm effed. Like the available men don't necessarily, you know, who want kids. They're not like, let me find a 38 year old. They're more like, let me find a 28

year old. And so that's real. Like that was a legit dynamic that he was pointing out. And he was saying like, we're trying to come up with these like guidelines for young women and like, consider doing it this way because you've been misled by third wave feminists into thinking you can have it all and you can have it all at the same time. And I just thought that was a very interesting proposition. And I think what they were leaning toward, though he hadn't finalized it, was like, do get married, do have kids in your 20s and maybe push the career off until the 30s where you will be able to generate something and get something going. But like you can't necessarily generate fresh young eggs we're in your four out here promoting teen pregnancy that's down across the board i don't disagree exactly but it's you that was what when

women were like you know trapped in traditionalist marriages where they didn't have income that's why it was so hard for them to leave because they it's not so easy to just start a career so what like what would you say to him um yeah that there's just has that well it's just the it's the dual income household is the real the realism of the situation for most young people so yes you should have a job you should find a way to have some income but you shouldn't like devote your life maybe to being the most successful in some field if what you want is a family and you just have to be honest with yourself it's hard to identify uh what you want in life and whether you want a family. I think people, young people struggle with that. Yeah.

Because we're all so brainwashed to kind of be antinatalists, not want children because it's like an infringement upon our ambitions, our lifestyle, that sort of thing. And the PR around it has gotten so negative when it should be so positive. Yeah. And I think like all the dating discourse that you see on the internet is profoundly like toxic and unsound it's bad because it's like reactive and retarded and basically there's no way to game the system it is a crapshoot it is unclear whether you will meet the person who's right for you that's just like what everybody has to reckon with

well he was raising a good point yeah which was that i'm going to botch this but he was basically saying if you look at the averages of like the number of dating relationships, the average person will have, they're relatively few. I think he said it's like maybe five. Yeah. That makes sense. That's because if each, each, each relationship is like a year or two plus the recovery time, plus the time it takes to meet somebody new. Yeah. He's not wrong. So you build that into the process from like 20 forward. Then you are looking at like age 30, by age 30, those have happened. I was like, God, this is really stark. But then there are situations like mine where I did marry

somebody at age 30 and I divorced that person at age 35. And later in my 35th year, I moved out from Dan in February of 2006 and I met Doug in July of 2006. Like it can happen, but everybody always looks at me and they're like, oh, that's extraordinary. You know, like it's like one in a million and your career is one in a million.

And I don't, I'm more of the abundance mindset that we discussed earlier where I'm like, it's not one in a million. You can manifest it for yourself too. And then when I say that, people call me like a fourth wave feminist. Like you're just a conservative feminist. I'm like, no, I'm an optimist.

Power of positive thinking. Retain, you know, maintain hope. That's how I feel. Like it will happen for you if you make it happen for you. If you believe it can happen and then you like, you have to manifest it. I know that sounds nuts, but i believe in it and but you have to also be willing to make sacrifices like we were talking about this recently that so much of the like dating market

conversation is so problematic because so many people men and women like overvalue them themselves and people ask like what can you do for me versus what can I do for you? This is what Jordan would say too. I mean, it's very dark. A lot of these women are like, he's not good enough. Right. Or it's like, what are you bringing to the table? What are your needs and desires?

And it's like, it's unfathomable for me to go into a relationship thinking like, what can he do for me? Can he pay my bills? Can he like make me feel good about myself? Like that's the wrong narcissistic way of going about it you have to ask yourself um whether you're willing to love another person and of course they have to be in on the game too as to be a mutual thing but it's outrageous that people i mean you should expect a baseline of like positive treatment and like

love and care and affection, but people expect so much from another person without giving anything in return. Well, that's the thing now that's, that's it right there. Like I've taken heat for saying, you know, I, I want to be a working woman, which I am, but I still want Doug to open my door for me. And I want him to do all the gentlemanly things that he does for me. And people say like, oh, what is that? You know, like, what is, so what, what are you committing to? But my own feeling is there's nothing incongruous with those two goals. I also am a working woman, but feel like I have primary responsibility generally for the housework. We have a maid. I'm not going to, I'm not trying to fool anybody, but like,

as between me and doug i'm more likely but you manage the household yes i am and i'm more likely to like i mean i take care of all like yeah presents and birthdays and like celebrations like i know that's and like that's what are the dinner plans like that's that's generally women's work and i'm fine with that i don't i don't mind that i enjoy it like I love taking care of him in that way. And there are other ways, too. Which I'm fine with, right? Like, even though we have this sort of atypical on paper relationship, just given my success in broadcasting. Right.

I like being more traditionalist in some ways. I don't think it is incongruous. No, not at all. Yeah. We should all go on Jordan the next time together. That would be fun. Okay. You guys should go on with him. I actually want to make that happen. We should all go on Jordan the next time together. That would be fun. You guys should go on with him.

I actually want to make that happen. You should. We've been trying to get him on our show. Oh, well, I'll reach out to him. Yeah. I think he would really enjoy this. He loves intellectual stimulation. Yeah, we would get along, but he, I don't know if I should say this aloud, but I know

his assistant, or I don't know what this guy does for him but he mentioned that like uh they just have very like hard quotas for like viewership or something like that yeah before you can get on his show yeah yes that makes sense like very bottlenecked yeah oh yeah but you know wait did you see his debate which one he went on that jubilee oh they asked me to go on jubilee oh don't do it Jubilee. Oh, don't do it. I said no. I said no. Don't do it. I don't want to do it.

You're way better than that. I just feel like this is not my jam. Well, they had him debating, as a Christian, debating 20 atheists. Oh. Oh, no. But then one of the Christians,

or atheists, asked him point blank if he was a Christian and he wouldn't say that he was. What? So they changed the title of the YouTube video to like non atheist. That's actually quite clever.

That kid made news. Yeah. He was, yeah, he was a little annoying and trollish, but he got his point across. So Jordan's not a Christian. He wouldn't identify as a Christian at least.

Yeah. Even in the purposes of this as a Christian, at least. Yeah. Super. Even in the purposes of this debate where he was a Zionist. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's actually really interesting. Now that makes me want to watch it. But I just thought like, why do I want to debate a bunch of possible know-nothings?

No way. On my core issues. About what? Did they even give you a suggestion? They let it be up to me. But I was like, I. Lazy. Plus, I'm not like, I'm not that person in the culture. I'm not like a culture warrior.

I have thoughts, but I'm more about facilitating conversations than being like a main debater and killer of other people's points. I'd be more likely to be like, oh, that's actually really interesting. Go on. Yeah. You know, then being like, you're wrong. You suck. So I don't think i'm right for that show but you know it's my kids it's really yeah it's fun have you did you have you been on it

i mean i will i'm like speaking of ben shapiro he he goes on it okay and charlie kirk goes on it and jordan goes like these are you know they're combative i know people think i'm combative but i'm not exactly combative like that like no no i'm only combative. I know people think I'm combative but I'm not exactly combative like that. I'm only combative when you stumble upon one of my core issues which tend to be just natural truths and you're lying about them. You're not trying to own people. No, not at all.

And they are because they're dudes. No, I'm a learn it all. I don't know it all. Anyway, it's so much fun. I don't even know. It's 2.30. We've been's so much fun. I don't even know what, it's 2.30. We've been here forever. For so long. We got to go.

You're not getting paid extra for this, but you're not getting paid at all. We don't get paid anything. It's been a pleasure. You guys, thank you so much for being here. Thank you for having us. It's so fun. The ladies of Red Scare, everybody, only one team like this. It's such a pleasure.

We have Charlie Kirk coming on Monday. And in the meantime, I hope you have a great, great weekend. Go ahead and download the Megan Kelly show on Apple, Pandora, Spotify, or Stitcher. I mean, honestly, I gotta, I gotta be honest. Maybe you should download on Spotify. Cause we got completely effed over by Apple about a week ago where they didn't download the show. They, we have no idea why they didn't download the show. People who listened to the show on Apple had to go like nine hours waiting for it to appear. No one would talk to us. At least Spotify talks to us.

YouTube, I love now. They talk to us. They have like many executives who are like, we will make sure the MK show gets online. They have never taken down the show. Not even a clip of the show. We've been demonetized. That's my problem, not yours.

They've never taken down a clip of the show. Anyway, wherever you get it, go ahead and enjoy it. And we'll see you Monday. Thanks for listening. Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.