The MeidasTouch Podcast - American Psyop: EXCLUSIVE Sneak Peek of NEW MeidasTouch Series

Episode Date: November 17, 2022

On this episode of The Mighty, MeidasTouch co-founder Ben Meiselas gives you a sneak peek of episode 1 of the brand new MeidasTouch/Bunker Crew podcast, American Psyop. American Psyop takes the audience through the amazing and inexplicable life of Wes Clark jr, the son of a NATO General and presidential candidate. After leaving the military for Hollywood, Wes finds himself subject to foreign intelligence operations. Soon, Wes is surrounded by a religious cult, loses his grasp on reality and descends into a world of dirty politics, mercenary organizations and possible threats to American Democracy. Now, with the help of journalist Emily Bicks, Wes tries to make sense of his messy life. Episode 1, titled "Genesis," takes us through Wes' background and how he became an attractive target for operations. Through his military career, his time in Hollywood, and his father's presidential run, Wes finds himself on the edge of a dark and mysterious world that will soon take over his life. Add American Psyop right now on all of your favorite podcast apps for new episodes weekly. Episode 2 available now: https://pod.link/1652143101 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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charge bet mgm operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming ontario i'm ben mysellis from the Midas touch podcast and you are listening to the mighty and I couldn't be more excited than to introduce on this episode of The Mighty, a new podcast series that Midas Touch Network has produced. It's called American Psy Op, and I want to tell you all about it. So for everyone out there who's looking to replace a midterm-sized hole in their lives, we have a treat for you. We are releasing our first podcast miniseries, and we couldn't be more excited about it. As I mentioned, it is called American Psy-Op, and it's a completely mind-bending true crime thriller with some very relevant political implications.

A good way to think of this is sort of like if Forrest Gump and Fight Club had a child and it's a true story. So it's about Wes Clark Jr. You know that name? It's the son of the four star general, Wes Clark, who ran for president in 2004. And as his father becomes a prominent figure, Wes Jr. starts getting targeted by intelligence operations and shady international characters. In 2016, he gets surrounded by a cult, goes insane, and while having a psychotic episode leads 4,000 veterans in a protest against the Standing Rock oil pipeline. And I'm just telling you, you're going to be shocked by how much this story informs and knocks up against important political events today.

And we're working with a great team on this. It's directed by Jack Bryan from Bunker Crew Media. They're the guys behind Kremlin File and The Vice Show, QAnon, The Search for Q. Jack also directed the Trump-Russia documentary Active Measures and produced it with Stacey Sher. And she produced Django Unchained and Contagion. And we couldn't be more excited to be working with her on this also. So here's what I want you to do. We're gonna actually play an episode for you.

The first episode on this channel so you can get a feel for what this series is all about. It is incredible. But then what I'd love for you to do is make sure you subscribe to the channel of American Psyop. So just search right now, wherever you're listening to this, American Psyop, American P-S-Y-O-P, two words, American Psyop, and make sure you subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. And if you like it, and I'm pretty confident you will, leave a five-star review and let

people know about this incredible Midas Touch Network original. I couldn't be more proud to share with you the new Midas Touch Network original series, American PSYOP. I'm telling you, you're not going to want to miss this one. Here it goes. It's December 4th, 2016, and I'm on the Standing Rock Tribal Reservation. SUV pulls up and it's Travis. Travis is like, hop in, man, hop in. And they go and they pull me behind the gas station outside of the casino where no one can see me. And they tell me all the intel they're getting is that AIM is about to kill me.

And I need to evacuate Standing Rock immediately. And I think, I don't know either one of these people. Sure, we chit-chatted, we talked online, we emailed. I don't know either of these people. Sure. We chit-chatted, we talked online, we emailed. I don't know either of these people. And I thought, this is it, man. These guys are going to kill me. These guys are contractors. And I said, well, here's the thing. There's like supernatural aspects to it. And I'm literally the angel Metatron. And I'm on Earth just to do this thing tomorrow. And I don't care who's trying to kill me, I'm gonna do this ceremony, and there's nothing in the world that can stop me.

And so I think back on that moment, and I want to know what happened to me. What brought me here? Who were these people? And I'm sitting here with Emily Bix, who's a journalist that I don't know, and we've been connected through a mutual friend who thinks I need to talk out what happened to me and figure out what happened to me. Thank you, Wes, and welcome to American Psy Op, where we're going to try and help Wes get to the bottom of his story. So yes, I am a journalist. I currently write for Heavy.com, where I cover sports, news, politics, entertainment.

Used to write for the New York Observer and the Hollywood Reporter. So our mutual friends, the producers of this show, Jack and Marlee, first heard your story in June of 2017. They didn't believe you and thought you were simply delusional. But then on a future project examining the origins of QAnon, Jack and Marley said they kept coming across names and situations you had described and decided they wanted to help you sort it out. They approached me because I had done some reporting on the origins of QAnon myself and because I didn't already know Wes or his story. Now, Wes, from what I understand, you believe you started becoming the target

of psychological operations known as PSYOPs starting in the late 90s. That's correct. And PSYOPs are operations that push selective information to manipulate the emotions, reasoning, and behavior of a target. Wes, you claim these operations all came to a head in 2016 when you were targeted by a religious cult, which drove you insane and got you to lead 4,000

veterans in the Standing Rock oil pipeline protests. Also, the members of this cult appear to have strange and direct ties to prominent figures in Donald Trump's orbit. And January 6th. That's right. And I just want to break it down with you and see what we can figure out, what's true, what's not true. What's paranoia, what's not paranoia? When I look back on this time in my life, which brought a lot of trauma to my family and friends. I feel I need somebody objective to tell this to, because on one hand, this is definitely a story about operations that were actually run against me, but it's also a story about mental illness. And I'm not necessarily the best person to judge

what parts of this story fit in what category. Okay, there's a lot to unpack here. So to start this series in today's episode, we're going to examine how Wes believes he became an attractive target for foreign intelligence operations. Today's episode is going to cover Wes's military background in the 90s and his father's campaign for the Democratic presidential nomination in 2004. So Wes, should we start with a little background on you? My name is Wesley Clark Jr. I'm 51 years old. I was born in 1969. I grew up an army brat in the 70s and 80s. I lived all over the United States. I lived in Germany. I lived in Belgium. So you grew up, the schools you went to, it was all military kids.

It was a mix. Sometimes it was DOD schools. Sometimes it was a public school just off the base. It was different, each base. Was it easy making friends each time you moved? This is where I look back on my story and I realize a lot of what my weakness was and the thing that came later and nearly got me killed is that because you're only a place for maybe a year to two years and you're an only child, you have to let it all hang out. You got to tell people,

this is who I am. And you have to accept who they are. And you don't always have a choice who your friends are going to be because everybody needs friends. Were politics a big part of growing up? Was your family politically involved or was it separate? No, totally separate. Did they and everyone around them lean Reagan? Absolutely. Look, the military is a conservative institution and it always has been. It's just not political. I mean, everybody has to have the same haircut and wear the same clothes. You grew up with kind of Kennedy-esque, ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country. I remember in 1978, I think I was seven, eight years old, and we went to Bastille Day in Paris. So as this is happening, there's a literal riot going on out in the street.

Somebody had blown up somebody else's embassy and the gendarmes were all lined up with their glass shields, beating them in unison faster and faster until they advanced on the protesters and were beating everybody up right in front of me. And I was like, that seems like an entirely normal thing to have happening. What? Because you grew up- You weren't scared? No. You're like, oh, that seems like an entirely normal thing to have happening. What? Because you grew up. You weren't scared. No. You're like, oh, that's just life.

That's just life. That's just life happening. And how old were you then? No, no, no, seven or eight. Okay. That's very different than an average seven or eight-year-old's reaction to seeing violence in the street. Yeah, no, you take things differently.

I mean, your dad, so he was class of 66 at West Point, and that was the class that was most heavily bled in Vietnam. He had these massive scars on him because he got shot like five times in Vietnam. I remember in high school, dad at that point was a brigade commander, and there was one of his guys that had lost his shit. And he went back to the arms room and he checked out an M60 and a whole bunch of ammunition. And he said he was going to kill all the officers in his chain of command. And dad came home wearing a pistol

that day because everybody then had to carry sidearms. But it was like, we're still going to have dinner and you're still going to do your homework and you're going to go to bed on time because the odds are the guy's not going to make it here. So don't sweat it. And you'd think, well, that's just life. And then I went to Georgetown University School of Foreign Service. So I went into the army right after Georgetown. But your career in the military, do you feel like you wanted to follow in your father's footsteps? I grew up in the service. And for me, it was like the easiest thing I could think of doing. Another question, your time in the military, you mentioned your dad had a bunch of scars and injuries during... Oh, I was in the peacetime

service. So no injuries? Oh, I got a ton of injuries. What happened... Oh, I was in the peacetime service. So no injuries or... Oh, I got a ton of injuries. What happened? Well, let's see. The first time I got this massive concussion, I was a Bradley commander. So... What's a Bradley commander?

Okay. When you see pictures of the U.S. servicemen, you see the big M1 tank. And then a lot of times there's a littler tank with a smaller gun tube. And it's a Bradley. Okay. So in the calve and divisional calvary then we had Bradleys. And I think I'd been in the unit

four days and we were on a training exercise doing a movement to contact in a blizzard going like 35 miles an hour off road. And we hit this anti-tank ditch we couldn't see and it brought it to an instant stop. And there's a cage on the front of it called a whoopie light. And my head went, bam, 35 miles an hour, smashed into the whoopie light, blood coming down my face. The helmet's like cracked. It didn't hit my head. It hit my helmet.

It would have killed me if it hit my head. What was the recovery on that? Did you go to the hospital? I went to the hospital. They're like, you have a massive concussion. Go go home have whoever you're living with watch you overnight they need to watch you when you sleep and i'm like okay i live alone they're like well listen good luck stay up for a while before you go to bed what yeah did you get scars no no no not at all it was it was just a concussion it wasn't my first one in life either. You had had a few before?

I'd had one before. I was a wrestler when I was in junior high school and just starting high school. And it was like state championships in Virginia. And I got knocked out in the finals match. But the second time in the army was, this was humiliating, but I was visiting my dad down on Fort Hood. And he's like, well, come out riding with us. And so I get on this horse I'd never ridden before. And he's got his whole like horse platoon out there. And my horse falls behind and then it starts galloping. And I'm like, holy shit, man, that horse is going to take me right into that tree. And this massive branch hit me right in the head, knocked me out of the saddle. But then my leg was caught in the stirrup and the horse is like dragging me at a full run. And meanwhile, there's like thousands of soldiers watching this happen

from the motor pool. Oh my God. But I'm conscious though. I'm trying to do a sit up. Then the horse starts taking me across the street and it's going right for this fire hydrant. And they get the horse just before it just splits me in half. And I got 42 staples in my head from that one. That was pretty painful. So that was the third head injury. Yeah. And then the fourth was, and this is also when I was on the service, like two years later, we were up at Fort Hunter Liggett.

It's kind of this isolated base in Northern California. And everyone's like, oh, we need to go to the club. We need to go to the club. We need to go to the club. So we go to the club on the weekend and I got jumped outside and I got kicked in the head and then jumped off the second story balcony and broke my foot, slid under the van. A couple of my guys came out like 20 or 30 minutes later because they had no idea this even happened to me. And I have blood coming out of my ears and like, oh, we have to take you to the hospital. How do you think these head injuries contributed to you being susceptible to operations? Well, I think because it affects your temper,

it affects your mood, it affects how you see the world. And that dovetails into being influenced because when you're in a emotional state, you're not going to make rational decisions. Did life change for you as your dad moved through the ranks? By the time I went to college, he was just a colonel. And it sounds like, oh, just a colonel, but there's like thousands of colonels out there. And we were just kind of a regular family. And then when I was out of Georgetown and into my time in the service, he became a general. But once somebody becomes a general, things suddenly become political in ways they never were before. And one of his jobs was the J5, one of the joint chief of Staff positions in charge of international affairs and strategy as an advisor to the president and the secretary of defense.

They negotiated the peace accords in Bosnia. New to office, President Clinton limit the refugee outflow. Okay, and the Bosnian War was a part of a series of conflicts which went from 1991 to 2001, known as the Yugoslav Wars. Yugoslavia formed as an independent country in Eastern Europe after World War I. It was made up of six provinces, each with some autonomous rule, almost like U.S. states, each with different religious and cultural identities. When Milosevic's Serbian troops committed genocide against Muslims in a region of Yugoslavia called Bosnia in 1995, NATO stepped in with an American-led bombing campaign against the Serbs.

And I remember, and this is before the age of cell phones, this is like 1995. I was a squadron maintenance officer, but I had a friend from school who was up in Denver, and I went up there to drink. And I got a phone call at five o'clock in the morning at his house from the secretary of defense, who wanted to know if I'd talked to my mom yet to let her know that it turns out dad is still alive. And I was like, what? Did you have any context as to what he was talking about, how they found you at your friend's house? Nope. Nope. I turned on CNN and there'd been an accident on Mount Igman outside Sarajevo. And apparently an APC had rolled over and set off some landmines and killed part of the American negotiating team.

We lost some fine Americans in a terrible accident a few hours ago. I have spoken with Nick Holbrook and with General Clark in Sarajevo. I am very grateful for the service that these fine men have rendered to their country and to the world. Moments from now, Secretary Holbrook and General Clark will continue with a scheduled meeting with President Izabekovic to press for the cause of peace. How far away was your dad from that explosion? Oh, he was like right there. He rappelled down the mountain and tried to rescue him. But it was just, that's when life started to get weird. I got out of the service.

I wanted to do something else. I mean, I'd spent the first 26 years of my life as a dependent, a cadet, or on active duty. And I thought, I need to see what else is happening out in the world. So I had this friend of mine from the last school I was in named Porter, who worked as a PA on a time to kill. And his godfather was like this big Hollywood producer. And he goes, dude, you should come out to California and live in Los Angeles. You get 150 bucks a day and free lunch. And I was like, $150 a day and free lunch.

That sounds reasonable. Sold. Sold. Like something as far away from the army as I could get. And you came out here alone? Came out here alone with a dog. And were your parents supportive of the move? No, totally against it.

Are you really going to LA? 100% against it. You're throwing your life away. You could be a general if you stayed in. Because I did really well when I was in. It's something I loved. When I look back on my life, I was happiest when I was in the service. Because outside the service, the world doesn't make as much sense.

I trusted everybody I was with, enlisted officer. They had my complete trust that we're all on the same team. Now, I didn't always trust their competence. And then that's flipped in the civilian world. In the civilian world, what I found was people are really competent, but you cannot trust them. And I have to keep learning this lesson over and over and over again. And it's one of these things that after being targeted and going through this thing I'm going to explain to you, even today, sitting down here with you, there's part of me that goes, is this an op? Am I being set up? Was my name taken out of the file? They're like,

look at this sucker. Let's use him one more time and burn him. Oh man. That's a hard thing to live with. To constantly be in that position of not trusting anyone or even me. It is. I guess we'll work through that. So anyway, I worked as a PA for a while, which sucked. You work like 18 hour days. Everybody shits on you.

That free meal is not that good. I mean, it's exciting at first. It's better than Chili Mac. Then I became close with this Australian trust fund baby I'd met working at Jersey Films. Okay. And I should mention in this series, there are two instances where the lawyers asked us to omit someone's name because the only evidence for a potentially damaging claim was Wes's recollection. This is one such occasion and this character will be referred to from here on as the Australian. I didn't go out with him like and party with him

because I mean, I was working all the time, but also he was like compulsive with women. Like one of those guys who hits on every single woman at the bar until somebody is like, sure, why not? He's that guy. He's that guy. I mean, he was really good looking and he was rich and really into Buddhism and smoothies, mate. So that probably helped.

No shame. But at the same time, the no shame numbers, I was like, it's embarrassing. I don't want to go out in that thing. So the Australian had come into money and wanted to set up an angel film financing company. And he went over to Cannes and supposedly slept with Tracy Lourdes. He'd met this German guy who was one of the first people to sell his company to Amazon. This was the late nineties. And the Australian was like, listen, mate, I paid this guy $200 million cash, mate. Cash. You know how many movies we can make with listen, mate, they paid this guy $200 million cash, mate. Cash.

You know how many movies we can make with that, mate? Well, I'm going to go traveling with the guy. He's a fucking partier, mate. We're going to go to Macau. This Chinese billionaire that lives at the top of Bel Air, mate. We're going to get on a plane and we're going to go over there. And when he came back, he was like, oh, mate, it was epic, mate. Epic. So we get off the plane. It's just us, me and the German guy and the Chinese billionaire.

And there's a hundred girls lined up, mate. The oldest girl, mate, might've been 16, mate. And they were like, everybody take three girls. You keep them for the week. And I was like, I can't spend any more time with this person. And we stopped hanging out and barely kept in touch over the years. Your dad becomes the head of NATO in 1998. He was the Supreme Allied Commander for the Alliance, which is the title Eisenhower had. And NATO is an international alliance between countries, mostly European and American, which started in the 1940s. And it's basically an agreement that if Russia attacked one country, all the rest would defend it, right? Yeah, it's a mutual defense treaty.

What does it mean to run an organization like that? Okay, American Psy Op fans, I know you're a fan of the show. I told you it was good. Ben Mycelis here. And while you're watching this, I do want to remind you as well to check out our Patreon website by going to patreon.com slash Midas Touch. That's P-A-T-R-E-O-N dot com slash MidasTouch. And please consider becoming a patron of the MidasTouch network. We at the MidasTouch network are not funded by the millionaires and billionaires who fund the both sides media and the pro-fascist media. In fact, we're funded by zero outside investors.

So we are powered by democracy and 100% fueled by your generosity. And that's why we are 100% accountable to you, 100% independent. We don't rely on any of these outside investors telling us do this or do that. We deliver the best pro-democracy content out there. And so when you go to patreon.com slash MidasTouch, P-A-T-R-E-O-N.com slash MidasTouch, there's incredible exclusive content there that I know you'll love. There's extra exclusive podcasts you can only get there. There's Q&A sessions with me and my younger brothers, behind the scenes footage. There's certain subscription membership tiers there where you can become honorary producers of the Midas Touch podcast and your name will appear at the end of the show on YouTube. You could also get posters that demonstrate that

you are an honorary producer and get postcards from us and so much more there. The exclusive content there, the Midas Mighty community loves it. But for me, most importantly, it will help us grow this independent media platform. And we've seen with the midterms that this is more important now than ever, given the failures of the both sides, major media networks, and of course, the horrific results from the pro-fascist media network. So please, if you can, go to patreon.com slash Midas Touch, P-A-T-R-E-O-N dot com slash Midas Touch and subscribe to one of the memberships. I'm Ben Mycelis. Now, back to the show. So you have joint commands, you have integration of forces, they train together. You have to somehow juggle the interests of all these different member states and get everybody on board. Right at this time, the wars amongst the now former Yugoslavian states has erupted again. And again, it's Milosevic leading the Serbian faction going to war with a country that used

to be a part of Yugoslavia. This time, it's Kosovo. And they had trains that they were loading people on to kind of ethnically cleanse it. Yet more evidence emerged today of the scale of the atrocities committed in Kosovo. Hundreds more bodies have been found in several areas of the province. My fellow Americans, today our armed forces joined our NATO allies in airstrikes against Serbian forces responsible for the brutality in Kosovo. Essentially what happened was we bombed Kosovo for weeks. And finally Milosevic buckled and NATO rushed in to occupy. And at the same time, the Russians were trying to flood it with Russian soldiers. That way, it's an empty victory for NATO and the Serbs remain in control, backed by the Russians.

Why were the Russian troops there? The Serbs are their boys. So there's peacekeeping forces in Bosnia to kind of look out for the interests of the Serbs. And the goal for the Russians is to always get as deep into your shit as they can get to cause as much potential trouble later. And so you want to head that off as quickly as you can. And so the British were ordered to take the runway. And the British general was like, I'm not starting World War III for you, general, and wouldn't do it. So then instead, they just had American helicopters land on the runways as they convinced Kiev to close Ukrainian airspace to the Russian transport planes.

So they weren't able to reinforce their position. That left the Russians pissed off at my father and seeing him as a future threat that need to be checked. So how do you think your dad, being the head of NATO father and seeing him as a future threat that need to be checked. So how do you think your dad, being the head of NATO, opened you up as a target? Russia and its allies have proven over many decades that they go after people's families and they go after people's children to use them as pressure points or gain undue influence or gain information. But look at it from their perspective. So they're like, okay, the guy who's in charge of the military alliance that we're up against, we can't monitor all of his calls, but he seems to call this number in Southern California

once or twice a week. And we could find out things that we may find useful. Well, because every, here's the. At that point, everybody assumed, well, your dad was the head of NATO. You must have a top secret clearance. And so a lot of what you're going to hear is all the people who talk to me and tell me things that assume I have some kind of security clearance. I feel like even in today's news with under Biden and the Trump kids, it's easy to see why they become the targets. Absolutely. And all of them have been targeted. The Trump kids have, Hunter Biden has, they've all been targeted and subjected to influence operations. I moved to New York and I started

working in advertising as a director of new business. Then that all came to a screeching halt on 9-11 because our number one clients were Cantor Fitzgerald Z-Speed and they all died. And I remembered watching the Twin Towers fall like from 6th Avenue and 14th Street and not knowing who survived and who didn't survive. And my uncle worked down around there and I called other friends I'd had that I've served with. And I'm like, that's it, man. I'm going back in the service. I'm going to go get these motherfuckers. And I called my dad and I told him I'm going back into the service. I'm going over there. And he said, don't do that. You will

never be used against the people who did this. He goes, you will wind up going overseas, killing people that had nothing to do with it, watching your friends die, and it's going to haunt you for the rest of your life. And I thought, I will think about going back in. Because the thing is, all the ex-generals all still talk to everybody in the Pentagon all the time. And he understood that 9-11 was going to be used as an excuse to essentially knock over the old Soviet client states in the Middle East, Iraq being one of them. And that Iraq didn't have anything to do with 9-11. 48 hours later, I was in a big room and Bill Clinton was there and my dad and a bunch of other foreign policy honchos, essentially trying to keep everybody calm. Your dad didn't come along?

Yeah. Okay. And so here was 9-11 and you look around at the Republican Party and how they're going to react to it is poorly. And I looked at the democratic party and these people in the room and everybody's like, be calm, be calm. We'll figure out a thing, you know, figure out a safe way. And they all seemed worried. Like they looked around and think who is going to lead the party through this. And I thought, holy shit, man, how about my dad? Cause he just won a fucking war, like the first war in Europe in like 50 years for the right reasons. And we're kind of regular people.

And he's not corrupt. He's a really smart guy. You know, I was a conservative guy up until like the late 90s. I wasn't like crazy conservative, but I was like, I grew up in the army. And so when I went home to visit my dad in NATO after the war, he said, listen, there's something I got to tell you. We got this briefing from the European Science Commission today. And climate change is going to hit really hard when you're in your 50s, like during the 2020s. And it's going to cause crop failures in parts of the world where they

haven't had crop failures in years. Everything could fall apart. So when you hear stuff like that, it changes the way you look at things. And then he came out against the war in Iraq. Do you think your dad becoming a public figure by being vocally against the Iraq war made you a target to operations? Once people think you may be on a trajectory to power, they're going to burrow in and figure out ways they can manipulate you or curry your favor. Let's say you just did something that is totally on the news. Suddenly really wealthy people are like, hey, let's have that guy over for dinner. So my dad was in that position of, hey, let's have that guy over for dinner. So all these people wanted to talk to my father. And so I remember in April or May of 2003, this is after he came out against the war in Iraq. He's like, you got to meet this couple.

They want to meet you. I met them at the Academy of Achievement or something. It was like, these people are at the center of New York. Like they're plugged in to politicians, presidents, Hollywood people, everything. They want to meet you. And these are the kind of people that can open doors. He goes, her name's Ghislaine. And I'm like, what? Shut up. No.

Ghislaine Maxwell. So her name is Gislaine it's not Ghislaine I see that's the thing I was I didn't know what to call her because I was like I'm like are they married like is she Mrs. Epstein he goes don't call her Mrs. Epstein. I'm like, okay, what? And I couldn't remember because I was high. I couldn't remember what her last name was. And he said, oh, they want to meet you. And I'm like, make a good impression. I'm like, okay. So I went up to the Upper East Side and I'm expecting some kind of a dinner. So you weren't given any context you're like no context they just wanted to meet you at this time there's just a call be at the house at this time i'm like okay um and i go in and they i'm brought up to the second floor was it a nice home yeah it was that giant it was the home yeah yeah yeah oh God. And so there's some landing on the second floor and they put me there in a chair facing a wall and they're like, Ghislaine will be right with you. And at this point I've got hair like Robert Plant. I stink of cigarettes. I probably smoked pot that afternoon and they brought me out a drink. So I slammed that really quickly. And then Ghislaine comes

and sits down in a chair opposite me in the hall in what felt like this kind of interview. And she's like, what are you doing now? And so she said she was a helicopter pilot and she could fly anywhere and land on boats. What was your first impression of her? Were you impressed? Was it- I didn't know who the hell she was. I was just like, who's this dowdy old, you know, British woman. And, you know, I grew up in the service and it's fairly conservative. And so my answers were all kind of golly gee whiz shucks. And she's, you know, was like quizzing me on things like, you know, what do you think

the biggest danger facing the country is? And I said, well, you know, there's climate change, but then the big thing that's killing the country is income inequality. And it was like, all right, have a nice night. Like, man, we're not interested in that issue. See you later. Have a nice night. It's over. Jeffrey won't be joining us.

There'll be no dinner. Goodbye. And thank God that thank God that was the outcome of what happened. What answer were they looking for? Like what answer would have been like, oh, you need to meet Jeffrey. Yeah. What do you think the biggest dangers in the world? I'd be like, not enough young chicks. Oh God. That probably would have gotten a meeting with Jeffrey. Did you tell your dad about this conversation? Yeah. I'm like,

is this weird kind of conversation? He's like, they're all weird people. So he's a he, your father had hung out with them quite a bit. He'd met them. The way the country works is there's all these conferences out there, and this will set off everybody's conspiracy antennas from the Milken conference to the Clinton global initiative to all, there's a whole circuit of these things. And incredibly wealthy people and the people that run their offices, they all go to all these things and hobnob with each other. It's, you know, hopefully they'll get to meet them in the, you know, the airport lounge and they can have a talk and then figure out how they can be in business

together. And it's all kind of measuring each other up and networking. It's just like Los Angeles. And that's the thing. It is just like Los Angeles. And that's the thing. It is just like Los Angeles. It's like all these things work the same. So anyway, I got married in a shotgun marriage and we moved out to Los Angeles and dad announced he was running for office. And then I saw what politics was up close. Our issues this Sunday, the general makes a run for the White House. I intend to seek the presidency of the United States of America. They're like, who's our candidate going to be in 2004? Nobody had really broken out yet,

and everybody seemed to be lacking something. And John Kerry's like, I'm going to be that candidate. But then again, so was Howard Dean. So were a whole bunch of other people. And a bunch of Clinton people had said, well, let's just throw Clark out there. Okay, you voted for Nixon twice and Reagan twice. Why are you now running as a Democrat? Because I believe in what the Democratic Party stands for. And what this country needs is effective leadership. And it needs a party that engages abroad, not uses force abroad necessarily, but engages abroad. And it needs a party at home that lifts people up, not leaves

them behind. And the right party is the Democratic Party. Because it was an upstart campaign, there were a lot of activists that were on it that hadn't run campaigns before. And then their whole Clinton apparatus then came in to handle money raising and primaries and stuff. So how was it presented to you? Did your dad sit you down and say, son, I'm going to run for president? Well, I'd been pushing him to run. So when he announced that he was running for president, you were like, finally. Yeah, I was like, finally. And like, why did you wait so long?

Like, you're too late. So you're a big supporter of it. Big supporter. I was out there. I gave speeches and stuff. I traveled around for him. But I realized when he was doing it, 90% of his time was on the phone talking to people to raise money.

And I remember they came out to LA, the Eagles did a reunion concert fundraiser, and we left that to go to Madonna's house for dinner. And in between, the finance chair goes, hey, kid, the celebrities are nothing. If you're going to go into politics, go into fundraising. That's where the action is. And he was right. I mean, that's where the action is. And he was right. I mean, it's all about the money. When I broke down thinking about what my father was talking on the phone about, what 99% of

the people around him in the campaign we're talking about was raising money and that it's totally normal to spend 90% of your time raising money. And you think, well, when do they come up with their policies and their governing ideas? So with all these donor phone calls, was there a particular topic that they all wanted to ask? Or was there a certain theme that they all wanted to talk about? I mean, they always revolved around Israel, the economy, protecting us from Chinese piracy, that kind of stuff. I mean, there was nothing that difficult because most donors don't have a really intense understanding of what they want anyway.

I mean, it depends on where their wealth came from, but most of the donors have family offices. So the family office is the one that's engaged with lobbyists and how do we want to skew the tax code to make us better off? The actual, you know, the principal who's going to make the donation, they don't know any of the details of that stuff. They want to meet you and know, are my taxes going to go up? Is there going to be any terrorism in the United States? I mean, that's what they were worried about. And then they want you to listen to their opinion on like 20 or 30 subjects. And then maybe you get a check, but everything revolves around that. And every political professional around him was like, this is exactly how every single

campaign is. Like there is nothing unusual about what you're seeing. It's different in both parties. Like the fundraising is the same in both parties, but most Democratic candidates have to be self-funded with their own networks of donors they can tap into. Whereas the Republican party is a much more organized party. So what they're able to do is say, farm out positions for politicians. Hey, will this guy do exactly what we tell him to? Yes. Okay. Congratulations. You are the new representative from Colorado. And they chose not to compete in Iowa. And I thought that was a stupid decision.

Any particular reason? Well, I thought we grew up a lot in the Midwest and I kind of felt like I understood people from there and I thought he would connect well, but the Clinton people did not want him to build an organization there. When he didn't compete in Iowa, it felt like that was it. And the professional staffers didn't leave yet, but they all had their feet out the door. And by that point, that was also the end of Howard Dean. I felt like the only reason the Clintons and their people had backed dad and really what he was there for was simply to stop Howard Dean from winning in 2004. And then once Howard Dean had been stopped,

it was like, all right, everybody get on board the establishment train. That sounds like a crazy thing to think. And I didn't think that while it was ongoing, the farther through the campaign I got, you realize a lot of successful people in life are successful because they've sabotaged those around them. And you could see people actively do it, jostling for what their next job is going to be. So when the campaign ended, was there a sense of relief? Oh, yeah. Or disappointment? How did your dad feel about it?

By the time it was over, he just realized he'd probably bitten off more than he could chew. And he didn't understand the civilian world yet. He hadn't been in it long enough. He hadn't seen the way things really worked because you have a lot of stuff in the army where, do it for the right reason, be mission focused. And the civilian world doesn't work that way, whether it's politics or Hollywood, it is individual focused in that individual advancing forward. And he didn't get that. So when your dad was running, did people assume that your family was incredibly wealthy? Oh yeah. You know, anyone you met from Asia or Eastern Europe assumed that you're from powerful family. We will be in business together. And they believe because in their countries,

their militaries are deeply involved in their economy. In ours, not so much, but everybody assumed you had money. From what I've heard of your story, it sounds like things actually heated up for you after your dad ran for president. Why do you think that was? Because at the time, even if the campaign wasn't going to work out, there was always the sensation he would have some kind of future involvement in some administration down the line, just because he had come out as a Democrat and was a four-star general. When you look back at this period of your life, how do you see yourself? Looking back from now, I was a sucker. Next week, we're going to get into your life after the military when you entered private life

and start getting pulled into operations. I mean, imagine getting this call. Like, you're a writer, you've worked a couple years in development, and you get a call that's like, We have $10 million. We have an Academy Award nominated director. We have interest from Richard Gere, John Malkovich, and Julia Ormond. And Bono says we can use any songs we want from the U2 library. Would you not jump on that project? It was like the first op I'd been targeted in. And it led to, you know, I had to evacuate a part of the world or I was going to supposedly be assassinated. The Sharyovo film thing ties into everything. That's going to be

a story we unpack next week for sure. We'll start there. Thank you for listening. We'll be back next week with more American Sci-Op. American Sci-Op is a Bunker Crew Media production in collaboration with Midas Touch. It was edited and directed by Jack Bryan. Our producers are Stacey Sher, Marlee Clements, and Jack Bryan. Executive producers are Ben Maisalis and Grant DeSimone. Sound design by Joy Ellett. I'm your co-host, Emily Bix. Please join us again next time. I hope you've enjoyed this episode, the very first episode of the American Psy Op series. Now, if you can, please go and subscribe to American Psy Op wherever you get your audio podcast.

Just search American Psy Op right now. Not only do we have this episode posted, but we have episode two. We will be releasing an episode each week. So make sure you subscribe. Tell us what you think about American Psyop. We would love to hear from you and leave a five-star review on the American Psyop podcast page as well.

I'm Ben Myselis from the Midas Touch podcast. I hope you've enjoyed this episode of The Mighty.