The MeidasTouch Podcast - Donald Trump big lie EXPOSED in Jan 6 Committee BOMBSHELL Day 2 Hearings (Guest Harry Litman)

Episode Date: June 14, 2022

On today’s episode of The MeidasTouch Podcast, we are joined by former U.S. Attorney, Deputy Assistant Attorney General and Host of Talking Feds Podcast, Harry Litman! During our conversation, we recap Day 2 of the Jan 6 Commission Hearings and much more. The remainder of the episode, the brothers further discuss the Jan 6 Hearings, break down the bipartisan gun reform deal in the Senate, discuss the infiltration of the GOP by domestic terror groups such as the Proud Boys, highlight a Democratic candidate running for Chuck Grassley’s Senate Seat in Iowa who shows great potential, and much more! If you enjoyed today’s episode, please be sure to rate, review and subscribe! New episodes of The MeidasTouch Podcast can be found on YouTube or wherever you download your podcasts every Monday & Thursday evening! Thank YOU for listening. DEALS FROM OUR SPONSORS: AG1 by AthleticGreens: https://athleticgreens.com/meidas Get 10% off Meidas Merch with promo code 'JUSTICE' at store.meidastouch.com Remember to subscribe to ALL the Meidas Media Podcasts: MeidasTouch: https://pod.link/1510240831 Legal AF: https://pod.link/1580828595 The PoliticsGirl Podcast: https://pod.link/1595408601 The Influence Continuum: https://pod.link/1603773245 Kremlin File: https://pod.link/1575837599 Mea Culpa with Michael Cohen: https://pod.link/1530639447 The Weekend Show: https://pod.link/1612691018 The Tony Michaels Podcast: https://pod.link/1561049560 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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and members of Trump's team who called themselves, quote, team normal during day two of bombshell January 6th hearings to describe Trump's coup plan. We will break it down on this episode of the Midas Touch podcast. And we should also touch upon the bipartisan deal in the Senate, which appears to have been reached on gun reform legislation, which has thrown MAGA into a complete shit storm. They're pissed that this bipartisan deal is reached, which seems like a fairly common sense compromise. We should go further. The fact that that enrages MAGA, we'll talk about it. President Jair Bolsonaro of Brazil, a Trump ally, is basically parroting the Trump election

fraud claims verbatim in Brazil and is allying himself with the Brazilian military, claiming election fraud before the election in Brazil is set to take place. That's why these things like the January 6th hearing has implications internationally. I do also want to take a brief look over at Iowa, where Democrats have the opportunity to pick up a Senate seat with an incredible candidate in Michael Franken, who I think can take down Chuck Grassley. We will break all of that down in this episode of the Midas Touch podcast. And I'll say this from the outset. I am truly speechless after watching the January 6th day two hearings. It exceeded my wildest expectations about how powerful and impactful this could be.

Brett and Jordy, great having you today. Ben, I know you're excited because you forgot to mention our amazing guest today. Who do we have on the pod? We have Harry Littman, former U.S. attorney, former deputy assistant attorney general, host of Talking Feds. And Harry Littman is going to put today's hearing in perspective about the criminal implications for Trump and the not team normal, if you will. How do you get better than that, folks? Hearing it straight from somebody who was an attorney at DOJ. I am fired up. I am angered. Today was just such a wave of emotions, fellas. And it all started out. We heard the news that Bill Stepien was not going to be able to appear in person during

these hearings. A lot of people started shouting conspiracy, lies, fraud. And I was like, yeah, it does indeed sound like bullshit. We then learned that his wife had went into labor. So it appears that Bill Stepien was just playing the long game with that pregnancy, I think, playing the long game. But after watching all the testimony, to me, it was clear that he did not even really need to be there in person because the footage of him, the lines that he delivered in the tape testimony was damning enough. I think it is worth noting. And Ben, you pointed this out to me bright and early today. You said, look how brilliant this is. Every single witness, especially in that first hour, either a Trump employee, Trump appointee. There is no whiff of this being a partisan investigation. They have taken all those talking points off the table by putting people who Trump himself had appointed into power and putting all these other Republicans on the stand to testify about Trump's illegal actions. And I think today spelled out that

Trump's actions were indeed a coup. And they were not only a coup, it was a massive grift where he swindled hundreds of millions of dollars from his own supporters. If anybody should be mad about this scheme, it should be Trump's own supporters, the people in the Trump cult who he stole from and pocketed the money into his own pack rather than doing anything to actually back up his claims of election fraud. But countless witnesses today just hammered home. It was bullshit. It was bullshit. It was bullshit. At the end of the day, Trump had two paths. He was at a fork in the road. He could have went with team normal,

or he could have went with team absolutely batshit, deranged, drunk and crazy. And who did Trump pick in that fork in the road? Of course, he picked the likes of Rudy Giuliani and the like Sidney Powell, the Kraken, all the typical nut jobs who we saw. Guy pillow guy. These are the people who we entrusted with the fate of our country. And it's funny and you laugh and I laugh, but it is horrifying. This man, this is the most criminal acts ever perpetrated on the United States of America. And it came from within. And I need accountability here. I need the DOJ to take this evidence. I need DOJ to act after these hearings are done and start holding these folks accountable. Brett, thank you. I just want

to thank you for putting me in my place right away for that giggle. You're right. It's very important. Well, it is hilarious. You said pillow guy, and that was just a very funny way to put Mike Lindell. So that's why I giggled there. But you're right. Incredibly serious. And then, Ben, yeah, I really appreciate how you pointed out that today it was really Trump's inner circle. It was really Republicans at large who were testifying during this hearing, who were speaking up, because if all of a sudden the MAGA base starts to call every single Republican who testifies at these hearings a rhino, all of a sudden there's going to be no Republicans left who aren't quote

unquote rhinos to this MAGA Republican base. And they're just going to continue to further alienate themselves from team normal. And let me talk to you about that point, team normal. The team normal statement came from Bill Stepien. And Bill Stepien was Trump's former campaign manager, who also appears to be on team normal. If you kind of take that framing are people like Jason Miller and Bill Barr, people who I would never actually consider to be on a team normal. And so one of the things people said is Midas Touch, you guys need to create a team normal gear. But I'm like, wait a minute, does Bill Barr and Jason Miller and Bill still don't want to be on that team. I still don't want to be on that team. But let's be clear in this. They were team normal, where literally you have a drunk, senile, ridiculous character in Rudy Giuliani giving

Trump the advice to go out and claim that he won. And as between Team Normal and Giuliani, Trump leaned in on Giuliani. Jordy, to your point about some of the statements that I made earlier, these were some of the statements I made in Midas Touch's pre-coverage of today's hearings. Midas Touch's pre-coverage on YouTube is probably the most watched stream out there, digital stream that's out there. I want to point this out too. We have licensed our own proprietary footage. We have our own cameras that are in the January 6th committee building. We're not taking other people's feeds.

This is a Midas Touch proprietary feed where we add our own professional touch. And that's why I think our feed is doing the best out there. But I want to talk about today's individuals who testified. So you had Bill Stepien, who couldn't appear in person, former Trump campaign manager. We got his deposition testimony out there where he repeatedly told Trump that the election was not stolen, that the election was not stolen, that the election was not rigged. He considered himself to be on team normal. And he said he repeatedly told Trump and anyone in the inner circle that would listen that Trump had lost

the election. Then you had Chris Stierwald, a former Fox political editor who basically said, look, the Fox News desk, not the political bullshit of Hannity. He didn't say this part, but he was implying it. He goes, what we do on the election side about how we project elections, we have the top data out there. And it was obvious to us at Fox News that Donald Trump had lost and we were able to call Arizona very easily and that it was they took great pride that their proprietary data showed this before the other networks and they were able to call it. Chris Stierwald eventually lost his job at Fox News for telling the truth about what the outcome was of the election. And this Fox News editor, this Fox News editor, I want to say, said that he was 100% convinced that Trump had lost the election and that there was no chance Trump could ever win that election. Then you had the second panel was made up of BJ Pack, a former U.S. attorney, a Republican

in the Northern District of Georgia. And BJ Pack was tasked by Bill Barr to investigate election fraud claims in Georgia. And this Republican, BJ Pack, said there was no evidence of it. Our office never found any evidence of voter fraud, election fraud whatsoever. And BJ Pack eventually resigned because of Trump trying to spread the big lie. You also had Al Schmidt, a Republican former Philadelphia city commissioner. And Al Schmidt, as a Republican, said that there was no dead people voting. We looked into every accusation, even the most absurd accusations that were out there, and there was no voter fraud that was taking place.

He also said that when Trump tweeted his name publicly, he and his family got horrible death threats. His kids got death threats. His wife got death threats. They had pictures posted of their home online, and they were subjected to heinous death threats. And then got death threats. They had pictures posted of their home online, and they were subjected to heinous death threats. And then you had Benjamin Ginsburg, the leading, prominent, preeminent Republican election litigator, basically the Republican version of Mark Elias. And Ben Ginsburg for the Republicans said, there was no voter fraud here. There was no chance of Trump winning. Even the way the Trump people went about trying to prove claims of voter fraud was not the way you would go about presenting a legal case. He talked about the 20 something Trump judges or the 10 to

20 Trump judges who all ruled against him. And I want to give special, special, special kudos to Congresswoman Lofgren. She did an unbelievable job controlling the hearings today, asking questions, interspersing the video. And when Bill Stepien couldn't show, she had to on the fly cue the clips. And so she knew where all the clips were because she had to make those decisions instantaneously. Not easy, folks. Not an easy task at all. But then she read all of the federal judge rulings and showed them on the screen, all saying how it was frivolous, how Trump's claims had no merit, that there were no facts at all to support him. And her and Benjamin Ginsburg went through

specifically how all of these accusations were false, how Trump had his day in court, and Trump could not convince any judge. Not only that, but the lawyers who represented Trump presented such frivolous arguments that 11 of them currently have been recommended for either disbarment or disciplinary actions, taking away their legal licenses because their conduct was so heinous. So that was the summary today. Where the committee left it as well was a conversation between Eric Hirschman, one of Trump's lawyers, and he gave some great testimony. He had funny lines today where he would just basically say, these people were batshit crazy. He goes, these people were

out of their fucking minds. This Eric Hirschman guy was really funny. But they left it with a clip of Eric Hirschman speaking to John Eastman, who was saying that he was representing Trump, where Eric Hirschman tells Eastman, who's saying this on behalf of Trump, where Eric Hirschman tells Eastman, who's saying this on behalf of Trump, are you out of your fucking mind, Eastman? The only words I ever want to hear you talk about with me are the words orderly transition or don't talk to me at all. You want to talk about ending it on high drama, folks. That is where they left it. So you got drunk Rudy. You got leaving it like that. You got these bombshells. We got more photos. We got more video of Ivanka and Jared. What more do you want? I think they put on a hell of a show and an informative one at that. Ben, imagine being so bad at your job and

so corrupt that you do not only lose a case, you lose your entire ability to practice the law. Like that's how horrible such people were. And we just saw everything laid out in such stark terms today. I'm excited to get Harry Littman's take on everything that's going on. But man, I thought they delivered. I think if anything, I think day two was even more powerful than day one. Flawless. The execution with both of these hearings so far has been absolutely flawless. That's my key takeaway of the two hearings. Let's bring in Harry Littman right now. I want to get Harry Littman's take. Then after we speak to Harry, I do want to get to other news that's going on. I want to talk about the bipartisan deal

on gun reform, which was an important breakthrough, an improbable breakthrough nonetheless. So let's bring in Harry Littman. And before bringing in Harry Littman, I want to give a special shout out to our next partner, our sponsor, Athletic Greens. This podcast is brought to you by Athletic Greens, a product I use literally every day. I started taking- Literally. Yeah, a lot of fans have been talking about how you say literally. I started taking Athletic Greens because before that, I would take all of these vitamins and gummies and pills that I thought were giving me the energy and optimizing my immune system,

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Well, we just finished watching, literally as we're recording this interview right now, with Harry Littman, day two of the January 6th commission hearings. And I'm personally speechless. So I'm glad to have someone here who I know is not speechless. Harry Littman, former U.S. attorney, former deputy assistant attorney general, and of course, the host of Talking Feds, Harry Littman is here and a member of the Midas Mighty. We can call you a member of the Midas Mighty now, Harry Littman. Welcome to the Midas Touch podcast. Well, Al, I'm a cousin or something.

Hello, all you guys, and hello, you Midas Mighty millions out there. Well, the Midas Mighty millions have been loving your videos. Harry Littman breaking down the developments with the January 6th committee and other legal events, things going on at the DOJ and other investigations. But look, we just finished watching the second day of the Jan 6th hearings, literally just finished it minutes ago before recording this interview. What's your immediate reaction? You know, I understand why you're saying speechless. I find myself personally furious, you know, just as they lay it out in such irrefutable detail. And you think that these jackasses that Trump ignored everybody, any port in a storm for charge after charge that wasn't, you know, implausible, but complete bogus made up of from whole cloth

bullshit. And that they, you know, the last little piece by Congresswoman Lofgren, how they're raising millions of dollars from small donors that they're not even bringing to the election fund, but the damage they've done to the country, did to the country, continue to do based on this 100% horseshit series of accounts that were again and again refuted to his face by the sane people in the room. So, you know, I just found myself juxtaposing that with the tumult and shocks to the system that the country endured then and has been enduring for a year and a half. So I'm needing to sort of calm down a bit and recover my composure. It's such a frigging outrage. And wearing your former U.S. attorney hat, especially, it must be an outrage where you

hear people who have made decisions that make them pretty difficult, sympathetic characters to begin with. But here, even hearing people like Bill Barr and others close to Trump who are lawyers, who are telling Trump, this is complete bullshit. You sound like an idiot. You sound crazy. Those were words that I wrote down that Bill Barr had told Trump. Idiot, crazy, bullshit, stupid. He really, by the way, stuck the knife in, didn't he? I mean, you're seeing some real sort of subtle payback from different people. But I love that last little bit from Barr that he knows has to torture Trump. He ran weak in Pennsylvania.

You know, so there's really an element of payback here. But yes, again and again, this was a new, they're peppering it very well with new revelations. Here's one I don't think we'd heard before, team normal and team abnormal. And you could see it, you could see it in the room, guys and women in ties and business suits suits listening to a question and calmly responding, juxtaposed with, you know, frenetic and not. And all the people, by the way, these aren't people who were part of the circle. Trump was heard from everyone around him, all of this is bogus. So he recruited any kind of poured in a storm kind of people with, you know, very John Eastman or Peter Clark. These are nobodies, but they had the one credential of telling the emperor that he was wearing clothes. But, you know, again and again and again, a very sort of telling point.

Prosecutors, I think, often think about or I did as a prosecutor, sponsorship theory out of whose mouth the words are coming. And obviously, the committee went to school on this. Almost every damning detail is coming from Republicans or people in his close circle or family. It's obviously down to this guy from Philadelphia, the Republican last who was the last witness. It's a very concerted strategy to really make people think, wow, I you know, there's such a Jets and Sharks mentality in this country. But these are these are the Republicans saying this. You know, maybe maybe such a Jets and Sharks mentality in this country. But these are these are the Republicans saying this. You know, maybe maybe I should think twice. And speaking, though, of the kind of sponsorship that you refer to there, doesn't this all go to the element as well of intent?

And granted, the January 6th committee does not have the power to actually prosecute. They could ultimately refer to the DOJ and make the case based on their investigation that here is what we've found, seditious conspiracy. I mean, they said at the outset that Trump was at the center of the conspiracy. They use those words intentionally. But talking about this intent element where the top law enforcement officer, Bill Barr, who works for Trump, where Trump's other lawyers like Eric Hirschman, the campaign lawyers who they brought in, all of them are telling Trump that you are lying to the American people, that this is complete, to use Bill Barr's words, bullshit. Does that help prove the criminal intent element here that Donald Trump knew what he was doing? It's absurd to even say

that should be in question. But is that also why you think the Jan 6th committee is doing this and laying it out this way? There's no doubt that's why they're doing it. Intent is the whole game here. We know what he did, more or less. And so the question is criminal intent. And you have this increasingly elaborate out there theory of, you know, I've begun to call it the Kool-Aid theory that he drunk so deeply of his own Kool-Aid, he believed it. Now, a prosecutor, a good prosecutor will really think in terms of what's the other side going to say. And, you know, the committee is really bringing wheelbarrows of evidence about how he was told that it wasn't that all through the software of crazy sociopathic Trump who actually believes he he won. And many of the things that they that they will say, you know, he could try to to say, yeah, but I really believed I won, except for a few. So let me just this is this is really, I think, where everyone is focused

on now. I just want to say a few things. There was some, even if you take him at his craziest, always believing it, there was some evidence that was really strong. The best I thought was how, even before the vote started coming in, he was, had hatched the plot of saying I've won. So that is really completely divorced from even a psychotic factual claim, right? That's a strategy. That's a tactic. Second, all the stuff that they're telling him, just loading up, no, you lost.

No, there's no facts there. Actually, I looked and not. One after the other, after the other. And when you see him saying, okay, but what about this? But what about that? That will give rise. A jury could easily believe if you're thinking as a prosecutor, he's either full of it, or there's this concept of willful blindness.

You're hearing played out that, you know, at a certain point, he's willfully blind. That's a form of knowledge. That's two. And they're trying to go to that. But three, and I don't think people have cottoned on to this so much. This doesn't matter because people are misconstruing the intent he needs to have. He needs you have, you know, Ben, you're a lawyer. You need an intent about a certain act. What's the act? Let's leave. Well, there's two different charges on the table. Let's leave seditious conspiracy to the side for now. The act of impeding or impairing the January 6th proceeding, if he knows he's doing that and

it's against the law, that is the criminal intent. It doesn't matter that he thinks he's not and it's against the law, that is the criminal intent. It doesn't matter that he thinks he's justified under the law because he really won or because he's trying to do it for world peace or he's got a secret loan. He's got it doesn't matter. The intent in question is the impairing of the proceeding. So that really the Kool-Aid defense wouldn it really isn't a defense, if I can stay nerdy with Ben, it's a justification under the law and a lousy one. That's three. All right, now though, over to seditious conspiracy. Here, the committee is saying he spurred it on. He lit the fire, et cetera. But as you law nerds will know, with JDs or not, they're not there yet.

You really do need this separate element of an agreement and knowing that he was wrong or spurring them to come to DC or that they think they're coming because he told them doesn't get to seditious conspiracy. Now, there is a hint that a conspiracy can be really large and you don't have to agree with everyone. He doesn't have to agree with Enrique Tarrio. He could he could form a plan with, say, Bannon or Flynn or this whole sort of shadow crowd that might form a bridge between political

officials and the ragtag marauders. And that would matter for conspiracy. But if you're the DOJ and listening in there, I think if they're playing it, if they look at it carefully, intent is there for days under two or three different theories as far as the charge of impeding the proceedings. And it's not there and they'll need more for a seditious conspiracy. Harry, if you were to distill today's hearings, all the bombshell evidence that we heard today into a theme, what was the January 6th committee trying to convey? What do you think their main message that they want the American people to leave with is?

Yeah, he knew and everyone who told, and there's a team normal and a team abnormal. The best scene to me of the whole thing, Brett, is you gotta love this image of it's election night. Everyone tells him to hold off because the numbers are going to come in the other way. You have a drunken Rudy Giuliani. Now, we've seen Rudy Giuliani sober, and he already seems drunk. He comes in.

Everybody knows he's drunk. And this drunken, wild man, crazy aunt, uncle is the one who's like, go out and say you won. And that is the policy of the president of the United States and the official campaign. So so it's not simply the willful blindness and ignoring of everyone, but the actual capture of the campaign by people not living in the real world. You know, and Trump, whether he doesn't, whether he occupies the planet Mongo with them or just, you know, anything that that will help him out fastens on to it. So it's that not, you know, not just ignoring it, but but being a bunch of psychotics. That's, I think, the message from today's hearing.

I think that team normal dichotomy versus team crazy and weird really is one of the things that- We didn't use that name. Again, sponsorship theory. That's what Stepien said they called them. That's what they called them. And they viewed themselves as the normal people as opposed to the crazies,

which are Rudy and Jen Ellis and Sidney Powell and all the crack and kooks. So right from the again, inflicted huge damage on this country that is ongoing. So it's comic in a way, but it's infuriating. And why do you think they emphasize so much Rudy's state of mind there? I mean, from the very get go, Liz Cheney mentioned an inebriated Rudy Giuliani, and it did not end there. There were many references to a lot of the people in Trump world who said, yes, like Rudy was trashed. Basically, he was just totally trashed all the time, wasted. And instead of listening to us, Trump was listening to that guy. Yeah. I mean, wouldn't you?

This is not a sophisticated lawyer point. This is Rudy Giuliani drunk. That's like, you know, that and this he he is the person who Trump does. He looks at you. It's almost you almost don't even say listens to just like latches on to. And these other people who we're going to be seeing coming, they are basically on Wednesday, we're going to hear all about the DOJ. Then we're going to hear about the state electors. Remember, these aren't a group of kind of out there advisors. These are new, complete sort of bottom feeders whose one credential is they somehow get to Trump. We're going to hear about

Eastman who gets in touch with some congressman, Scott Perry. And then but he says, oh, I can give a theory. There you go. He's now making policy for the president of the United States. So, you know, always from the start, one credential only who who would stand up there and in in each of their cases, I think, threaten their their liberty and law licenses by saying crazy shit to the president of the United States. And Harry, one of the revelations that you mentioned earlier was that especially Congressman Lofgren, they emphasized not only the big lie, but that the big lie was the big grift or as they called it, the big ripoff. Apparently, Trump fundraised for his election defense fund did not exist, never used it once

to pursue his claims about the election. I mean, isn't that a million to Mark Meadows? I mean, it's a whole different kind of fury. So this first one and the one that's really I'm really steam out of my ears now is the country and the state we're in and the absolute constitutional crossroads we're at. OK, take that to the side. This at from, you know, from the Trump wing who have been absolutely hoodwinked, get deluged with 20 emails a day and cough up another five bucks so he can have a huge pool to just dispense with largesse, for instance, to Mark Meadows, who knows more about these crimes than anyone and so far has stayed out of trouble. We'll hope if the DOJ comes in that that will have to stop. But that's a, you know, it's disgusting. He's, you know, it's so exploitive and petty and small toward a whole nother group. And Sidney Powell, by the way, is being investigated now

by the Department of Justice for doing the same thing off a fraudulent scheme. She also raised all this money. You know, part of, we asked, why would people who might care about their future engage in this? And it's, you know,

it falls to some of the Congress members also. They're going to raise a lot of money from it. It's disgusting. Are there other crimes that are able to be prosecuted there for that kind of fraud? Look, if it's bottomed by a fraud, Ben, I'll tell you, the wire fraud, you get a fraud somewhere, there's always going to be the male element, the federal jurisdiction element. So, so Sidney Powell is, is raising money off a lie. That's, there's likely there the whiff of wire fraud or male fraud, which is the sort of favorite go-to crime of federal prosecutors. Let me, let me say, I don't want to get too, you, you guys should stop

me if I'm getting too legal on the Midas Mighty. That's why you're here, Harry. Here are the charges in play. Already the charges in play for the officials are 18 U.S.C. 371, meaning you're doing something fraudulent. Who are you defrauding? The United States. There's a proceeding to certify the election, and you're actually defrauding the United States. So that's one. Then there's 1512, where you are impairing the proceeding. You're actually by force or scheme or subterfuge actually keeping the certification from going on. Those are two pretty serious, you could say, you never know what people will actually get, but sort of five-year

type crimes. Then there's the big, big ticket item that would be the most seismic prosecution in the history of the country if it were brought against Trump, seditious conspiracy. That's like, you know, treason. That's actually looking to use force or trickery to bring down the country. And that's what the main, you know, the Proud Boys and the Oath Keepers, you know, leadership have been charged with. Importantly, the main guy for the Proud Boys wasn't there on January 6th. So there are people who can, you know, can be charged with seditious conspiracy Importantly, the main guy for the Proud Boys wasn't there on January 6th. So there are people who can be charged with seditious conspiracy without having been storming the ramparts.

Those are the three. And as to the two, I think the evidence already has been strong against Trump. I think it's already over the line that prosecutors have to cross to green light a prosecution, not to say, you know, it's the prosecution of the former president of the United States. There's a lot to think about besides the simple checking the boxes. But those two evidentially solid. And what the committee is building to and the, you know, the absolute home run for them would be, were the country to believe that the former president of the United States, in fact, had committed seditious conspiracy, had, you know, if he basically agreed with after everything else had failed, I'm going to send these proud boys

there to storm the place, kill people, et cetera, seditious conspiracy land. So that would be the sort of holy grail for them. And the January 6th committee has been very vocal in recent days, too, about their desire to see criminal charges against Donald Trump, including members just yesterday. There was a story in the AP that they said they've uncovered enough evidence for the Justice Department to indict Trump on criminal charges for seeking to overturn the 2020 election. Do you think ultimately the Department of Justice will even have the option to not prosecute after all this evidence is laid out to the public? Definitely. Look, I, you know, I field a version of this question six times a day on on different places because I was there. I've worked closely with

Merrick Garland. There's a lot to think about, including if you shoot at the king, you better be sure to kill him. But even if you consider that you would, is there a... I think they... So a few things. I think they started with a predisposition not to prosecute. And it's getting harder and harder. I personally, you know, I saw all the wisdom and prudence in not prosecuting him. But I come to the view that the only thing worse than prosecuting him would be not prosecuting him. And I do think they'll look at it soberly and seriously. But man, that is a major, leaving aside all the politics, etc. There are, you know,

a lot of undeveloped democracies where you see that happening. You know, it really takes a society with a very strong rule of law culture to be able to go after a former political leader and have it be credible. But the number one thing I want to say, I think I'm going to write this, you know, this week is so many people are seeing the DOJ as a potential avenging angel to finally bring accountability, finally, you know, the day of reckoning he's so continually eluded. It could happen. Maybe it even should happen. But look, if the American people are going to continue in sufficient numbers to actually have almost a sort of, you know, proto civil war. To feel this way, a DOJ prosecution won't solve it, right? If you have the exact same 40%

and Trump is in the dock in an orange jumpsuit and his hair all, you know, finally revealed for whatever it is. Those people are going to be, you know, he could still be nominated to be the nominee of the Republican Party. He could still be voted in. He could still control things. The ultimate responsibility or whatever, the ultimate judgment has got to rest with the people now. They've done the January 6th committee for, you know, some people have, they've done an excellent job. Is it A or A plus? Shit, it doesn't matter. You know, there's some kind of critical mass for rejecting the autocracy of a Trump, and we're still fighting it in 2024. That's on us, or the cost is on us, and the DOJ prosecution, I don't think will change it. So that's the final point I want to make about it. But to your question, is it?

Yeah, I think the Vegas odds would still remain under 50-50. And I don't think the pressure, as it were, from the committee is the force of the evidence. It's, you know, Merrick Garland is not going to be like, oh, all the editorial pages are telling me I have to prosecute. He's lived a life of resisting just that kind of pressure. He'll make the call on the merits as he sees them. So, and there's also, as I say, a lot, you know, going on that probably has to involve the president.

So yeah, it's very possible that there's never a USA versus Donald Trump. I do think it's fairly likely there's going to be a Fulton County, Georgia versus Donald Trump. But that, by the way, I don't think people realize will be at least delayed or caught up in some pretty serious constitutional litigation, maybe for a few years, right? Can a local DA just indict a former president? How many indictments will Biden have against him in Texas and whatever after he leaves office? There's some heavy duty, unresolved questions there, but I think they're going to charge him. And I do want to go back for a sec before I turn the mic over to Jordy,

to your point about the need to still sway the opinion of people that that he'll still sort of last. You know, I guess the best example that I could give is Ken Paxton was indicted, what, seven years ago at this point, was still elected to political office, reelected to political office. And there's still a base of people who supports him. So there is a world, like you said, where Trump could be under indictment and still run and still be and will still likely be supported by those people. So I'm wondering, do you think that part of the reason that Liz Cheney included and that Rep Lofgren included the fact that Trump basically grifted his own supporters at a $250 million was to poke a little bit of a hole inside the Trump cult and basically be like, it's not just about everybody. He was ripping you off as well.

It's an excellent point, right? And I mean, we do, you know, what will it take? It does seem so clear to so many apart from politics like this guy's a two bit chiseling crook. He's been that his whole life. There is apparently new polling that, you know, more and more 25 percent say what what self-identified accountability Republicans are second guessing. Of course, we're fighting not just Trump, but Trumpism. You know, if he goes down or is vaporized tomorrow and people spouting the same crap or, you know, continue to use the playbook, we're still hurting. Although I think there is reason to think that there's a lot of people who would immediately be liberated to tell the hat, you know, all these guys, the five Republican members of Congress, they're just

cowed by him personally. I think people who are scared of getting primaried and that kind of thing. So even if we've always had maybe strains of Trumpism, but there think people go back to like Reconstruction or maybe the 50s for good reason, because the real threat here, and another infuriating aspect is it's all minority rule, but it's big enough minority rule that it actually threatens putting in place the pieces to permit the complete defeat of democratic rule in 2024. And then, you know, we're not the title of the podcast, the Talking Feds podcast, as we saw about it, is a republic if we can keep it, you know, based on and that it's an actual real um uh threat here so there's trump there's trumpism but um that it's that it's ultimately gotta be the the the people merrick garden could be the if i can stay with the fable he can be the child that says the emperor has no clothes but everyone's

then's gotta laugh and see it also um or we are truly fucked my Midas Mighty Millions. Hey, Harry, what do you what do you think Trump is doing during these hearings? You think he's glued to the TV, glued to the Midas Touch YouTube feed? Well, without a doubt, I you know, it's well known he's got seven things, the main say and then Midas Midas Touch, of course. But my best guess is Steve. You know, he's it's funny. He's such a child. You know, I've long since realized the lack of of upside and trying to psychoanalyze him. But his reaction, for instance, to Ivanka saying I respected Bill Barr, you know, he wigs out totally. Even today, the guy, the U.S. attorney who got fired that, you know, who was up there, such a stupid move on his part. He could just ignore him. But, you know, he's so vindictive and so petty. And I do

think he's watching and just, you know, he came out totally trying to excoriate bill barr and he you know he's a third grade bully and i you know when he the different things he hears including i do think this was an exquisite wound he ran behind in pennsylvania i think he's you know his his heads go in 360s he ran a week ran a week in Pennsylvania Harry and I love it you're a loser a loser a loser loser and then I'm sorry daddy you know um it's like the Mary Trump view but I think there's a lot to be said for it right he's something's it's it's he um he thinks it's a it's a kind of winning business strategy to always portray himself as the winner. But I think there's also some, you know, wait, here I am going where I said I wouldn't go.

But anyway, yeah, I think being thought of as a loser, it just kills him. And look, he doesn't have a, you know, he can't fight on Twitter anymore. He's getting kind of clobbered. Now, he does then goes back to, you know, Mar-a-Lago and get standing ovations. But I think he he's like many egotistical people. The the insults hurt more than the sycophantic praise is a bomb, I think. So I'll bet he's having a really, really bad day. And he's got two more to come this week alone. So I agree with you on that one.

I bet he's having a rough, rough couple of days and it's going to be a rough week. It's going to be a rough stretch for him, no doubt. But Harry, even if the hearings hypothetically, if they don't even change a single mind, and I am certainly under the impression that they certainly will. How important is all of this for just the historical context? If they don't even change a single mind, and I am certainly under the impression that they certainly will. How important is all of this for just the historical context? Yeah, that's me. So I couldn't agree with you more.

Look, it's a scandal that on top of everything else, by his complete flouting of the rule of law, criminal accountability should happen. But we don't even know the facts. Compare any other big event, you know, the Kennedy assassination, the Challenger, Iran-Contra, 9-11. You had people come together, by the way, in a real bipartisan way, because, of course, whatever side you're on, you have to understand the importance for the nation to have a full reckoning, know what happened, take steps. We've never been able to do that. And they're not doing, you know, Mark Meadows, Scavino and many others have successfully eluded cooperation. So this is the closest we're going to get. I mean, what's going to happen after this, right? You'll have like historians and carols, you know, finding little nuggets and making arguments. This is the closest that the

country is going to come to some official and hopefully popularly accepted account of one of what the two most, maybe the most serious transgression and threat to democracy, if you think of democracy as being at its core, the dedication to the peaceful transition of power in history. It is quite obvious. This is facts they're dealing in. They are objective. They're putting it together. It's a national imperative to get it and an outrage that it's been made so difficult by Trump and his allies.

So, yeah, even if we're on the path to on the path to autocracy and this is this is what, you know, they'll be reading in the you know, in other free countries, but not us in the future. We got to have it. It's it's more imperative even than the criminal prosecutions. And so, yeah, I'm if they were told you'll never change your mind, they should actually go for. In fact, they basically shouldn't even be thinking about what will this mean in November? This is for the long run. We'll leave it there. Harry Littman, host of Talking Feds. Everybody, make sure you subscribe to the podcast, Talking Feds. Harry Littman, a member of the Midas Mighty Millions, I love it. Likes to call it. All right. All right. You Midas Mighty Millions. I love it. Likes to call it.

All right. All right. You Midas Mighty Millions. Be good. We'll talk to you later. We'll see you next time. Thank you very much. Harry Littman.

We'll be right back after these messages. Back in action on the Midas Touch podcast. Great interview with Harry Littman. Harry Littman is so good and so on point. It's important that we talk about some other news as well. Important gun reform compromise reached in the Senate. A bipartisan group of senators unveiled an agreement in principle for gun safety legislation this past weekend, providing an overview of a forthcoming package of reforms to address an issue that I thought there was going to be a stalemate on and that we would not be able to resolve.

But I was hopeful we would be able to resolve it. But this announcement includes the support of 10 Republican senators, which would give this proposal enough support to overcome any filibuster. Some details include red flag laws and empowering states with funding to implement red flags laws aimed at keeping guns out of the hands of those who present a threat to themselves and others. Mental health and telehealth and telehealth investments closing the so-called boyfriend loophole, which would give individuals the ability to keep guns after a domestic violence incidence enhanced review for buyers under 21. Unfortunately, this does not have though a ban on buying guns under 21, which I think is necessary and needed. But here there would be a more thorough review process of people between ages 18 and 21 who would be buying guns like AR-15s with enhanced

background checks and a hold period. Also, it would clarify the definition of a federally licensed firearm dealer and also provide school security resources. And people like Representative Adam Schiff have complimented this. He said, is this bipartisan gun deal everything I wanted? No, there's no assault weapon ban. There's no high capacity magazine ban, no age limit, but it's progress that will save lives. And also notable activists who have been literally on the front lines, literally on the front lines, have come out in support of this legislation. And I want to speak about that, Ben, because, of course, when you look at the provisions in this bill, is it everything we asked for? Absolutely not. Is it even a fraction of what we wanted? Absolutely not. Are there things in this bill, however, that will save lives? Absolutely. And I think my North Star, with really most causes, isn't my own perception of the world, but I try to look to

the people who are really invested in these issues day in and day out. And when I look at people like David Hogg and March for Our Lives, when I look at people like Fred Gutenberg, who lost his daughter at Parkland, when I look at people like Shannon Watts, who founded Moms Demand Action, one of the biggest gun reform groups in the country, if not the biggest. And I see that they are thrilled by this progress. And when I see that experts who have studied gun policy for 50 plus years say that this is one of the biggest developments in decades, then I say, you know what? Let's take the W, then let's move on and let's elect more Democrats so that we could pass the rest of what we want because we here are pragmatic at Midas Touch. We want to be able to get legislation that we can pass. And if you want to look at what Democrats can pass,

if we had a filibuster proof majority, look no further than the House, where the Democrats have that majority control. Our House Democrats voted to raise the legal age to purchase semi-automatic weapons to the age of 21. And only nine Republicans there voted yes, but it didn't matter. It passed the House. Now that will never pass the Senate because there is no bipartisan agreement in the Senate. But imagine if we actually had enough Democratic senators to overcome the filibuster, if we had a couple more senators who could vote down the filibuster. We could be passing legislation like that and really be moving the needle on these issues. And that's why we need to understand that politics is an incremental game and we need to be fighting every single election. But I also want to give a huge shout out to Chris Murphy,

who worked his ass off. I feel like Chris Murphy, Senator Chris Murphy, has been working nonstop. I don't think the guy has slept. We've seen videos of him in the middle of the night trying to do these negotiations, and he was able to get this over the finish line. So we will keep you posted as this makes its way through the Senate. But I think we should all be at least proud that our energy, that our activism, that our enthusiasm here has resulted in at least some legislation that will save lives as little as it may be. Couldn't agree with you more, Brett. And just everyone, please take that dose of pragmatic progressivism. Take that really to heart because what Adam Schiff said is so right.

This is only in the beginning. It's not the end of our work. There's so much more to be done. And if you bow out now, we won't be able to accomplish. I want to turn to some international news briefly. You know, Midas touches, of course, we're focused on democracy here, but also democracy abroad and how they interplay between the two work. And turning to Brazil, you know, Brazil was under a military dictatorship through 1985. It's a relatively young democracy. In 2018, 2019, someone by the name of Jair Bolsonaro, a former military officer, came to power and very much closely aligned himself with kind of the fascist fringe of what's going on in MAGA world, that kind of international community of like tough guy fascism. And so we saw Steve Bannon and Jason Miller or Stephen Miller, that whole Trump inner circle continually meeting with President Bolsonaro of Brazil. And Bolsonaro kind of

fancied himself as a Trump-like internet personality, cult figure who made a bunch of promises that he couldn't really live up to. And so Jair Bolsonaro is behind significantly in the polls right now in the election for Brazil's presidency. That election set to take place in October of 2022. But he's already literally kind of the common word using the exact same framing and phrasing that Trump did about election fraud and that the voting system is rigged and that if he loses, the only way he will be losing is because of a rigged election system. One of the things that he's doing in Brazil is installing in his cabinet all of these military members to run his cabinet. Also kind of a similar tactic that Trump tried to do here,

except the way, fortunately, our military, other than Flynn, seemed to withstand Trump's ability to try to co-opt the United States military against its people. But in Brazil, one of the fears is that the military wants to conduct an audit now of the elections. They want to have their own kind of counting. And he's already kind of put these seeds in that if he loses, it will be because of election fraud. And he's got the military to try to back those claims and accusations. All the voting integrity groups and watchers there, similar to here, are basically saying that Bolsonaro is making this up, that they've looked into these issues and there are not systemic issues like that. But you have, what you see though, is normally the United States of America, we would be ones to encourage democracy. We would

always speak from a moral high ground when it comes to free and fair elections and the transition of power. And we would send election observers. So one of the destructive, as I read this article, which was in the New York Times that talked about this issue, but I've been following it from a number of other sources as well. It made me think like, damn, like the destruction that Trump did to the United States of America is that we were looked as this beacon that supports democracy, where we have free and fair elections. And without us there, other democracies can creep into fascism when you have strong men like Bolsonaro. It's such a good point, Ben. And it really

is honestly one of the things that really upsets me the most. It's how the Trump administration and the Republican Party who aided and abetted him has exported not American democracy, but has exported MAGA fascism, has exported this Republican brand of fascism. And it's just really, really, really disheartening for America to lose its place in the world or what we had left of it by the time Donald Trump had done all of this. And now it's just incredibly sad. But the thing is, we are seeing an infiltration of other anti-democratic groups within the ranks of the Republican Party itself. And of course, we've seen that time and time again from kind of the names that you know, the Ted Cruz's, the Josh Hawley's, the people like that. But I am speaking about the actual domestic terrorist organizations who have taken

a grip on the Republican Party. I am speaking about the groups who have already been indicted for things like seditious conspiracy against the United States, like the Proud Boys. And look no further than this past weekend. I want to talk about that group, the Patriot Front. I think a lot of people have seen this far right. I'm not going to call them a militia, this far right group, the Patriot Front, who showed up in a U-Haul, was arrested about an eighth of a mile away from a pride parade in Idaho. These people came from all over the country, met up, were being carried in this U-Haul van to do God knows what at this pride event. Thankfully, they were captured just in

the nick of time. But I think it's important that we know that these right-wing groups are the groups that are the voters of the Republican Party and not only the voters of the party. These are the groups that are now in leadership of the party. Don't believe me. Let's look at Miami-Dade. Let's look at the Miami-Dade Republican Party, where you're about to hear something that's quite shocking because I had to do a double take. I had to look this up 10 times after somebody told me this for the first time. But seven former or current members of the Proud Boys, yes, those Proud Boys, are on the GOP executive committee of the Miami-Dade Republican Party. And now when confronted about this issue, Marco Rubio tried not to say, yes, you know, it's unacceptable that an actual domestic terrorist organization is in the ranks of our party, which is, of course, is another big lie that he is pushing and shows his weakness and his cowardice and shows the weakness and the cowardice of the Republican Party that they are willing to let these people get into power in their party. It is disgusting. It is scary. And it does not bode well, frankly, for the future of our democracy.

And that's why action to take these people down, to take these groups down is so important. I'll do this dichotomy right here. The Proud Boys in Canada are listed as officially a domestic terrorist group. In Florida, they lead the Miami obvious now why when I asked former Republican strategists on this show that come on my famous question, who in the Republican party has disappointed you the most? All of them always say Marco Rubio. And it's for statements like that. He doubled down. He doubled that. He likes the fact that there are proud boys in his party, that there are running the state. It's so sad and just scary. And that's why what Harry Littman said, I think does ring true to me, is that we need all these people to quit their bullshit also, like even beyond an indictment of Trump, which I personally think is coming. We need the people to stop the bullshit. And that includes the leadership of the Republican Party.

That includes the Marco Rubios. And that includes this MAGA cult who needs to stop, stop buying into this bullshit and understand that they themselves are the marks. They are the ones who are being conned perhaps more than anybody here. And here's the thing. I want us all to be on a team normal. And I think there could be gradations of team normal where we could have very different views on how the economy should run or very different views and how we can tackle certain issues. And we may have very different views on issues like the second amendment. You know, I'm hopeful that we could all come to compromises where we don't want 18 year olds who don't have credit to be able to just willy-nilly

buy weapons of war and go in and shoot and kill kids. I think that's something that should be beyond dispute, but I think we can come together as a nation on team normal, if you will, and try to solve those problems. Inflation is something that's facing the global economic system, but I hope Team Normal can come together where we could say, hey, you know what? Corporate profits are reaching record highs at the same time you have this inflation. Maybe they're taking advantage of economic instability and price gouging. Do we want corporations to be marking up products beyond what the market actually has these products at? No, that's not the way capitalist system works. That's market manipulation and price gouging. Can't team normal come together on these issues?

But what we can't compromise, and this is to your point, Brett, about the Marco Rubios, about the Ted Cruz's, about this whole group, the Lindsey Graham's, is that you idiots know better. You idiots know that this is a big lie. And that's why I think what was most effective was how they concluded the Jan 6th hearings today by showing what the ramifications are when serious and smart people, and I'm not even putting Trump in that category, but when these people who are co-opted by MAGA and perpetuate the big lie, how that trickles down and just affects people. And you saw the cult there on January 6th parroting things that Trump knew were absolutely false. So after showing that these claims were false by Trump's own inner circle, Team Normal, who told Trump they're false, then you have the people parroting the things that Trump said, because when you have positions of power comes great responsibility. And if you're not going to be able to handle

the responsibility, you are an enemy of the United States at that point. If you've sacrificed your responsibility for callous power, you're no better than our enemies because you are destroying the United States of America from within. I want to touch, though, on as well when Democrats also say, oh, you're never going to reach them. You're never going to reach them. Shut the fuck up with that shit. What's the point of even writing that? What's the point of even telling me that? It's defeatist, shitty attitudes like that why Democrats lose and Democrats could lose because I see the comment every now and then. But no one's going to listen. You're fucking wrong. You know how I know you're wrong? Because the people who are listening call themselves team normal and are actually Republicans like Bill Barr and like Bill Stepien and like all of these people who came before and testified.

We need to be reaching these people. And if you take that defeatist attitude, you're the reason that we're going to lose, quite frankly. And you look, I talked about this before. You look in Iowa. Democrats have a fantastic candidate over there. We have like a vice admiral of the United States Navy who's running against Chuck Grassley, someone with real qualifications who has who's a military leader. And we have this individual who could take Chuck Grassley down. And Chuck Grassley is talking about fucking pigeons all the time. And my pigeon and pigeon in this pigeon or whatever. And we have a candidate who can actually win this thing. I mean, that is something that is, you know, that is, you know, important and we need to support candidates like that. And that's how we're going to win. It's a guy

named Michael Franken, who's running, who's running against Chuck Grassley. Exactly, Ben. Do not give up on the fight before the battle even gets started. This year is far too important. Our democracy is far too important for anybody to throw in the towel before the race even starts. I mean, come on, let's all be motivated. Let's all do this. Look at the work of the January 6th committee. We can see justice in America. I do believe it. And whether it's in Georgia or DOJ or other places or all the above at once, I do think we will see indictments here because at the end of the day, I personally believe, I know Harry didn't agree with me a hundred percent.

I personally believe that there will be no choice due to the criminality that is exposed, that has already been exposed for DOJ to act, for Fulton County to act. I want to do a quick wrap up of future coverage that Midas Touch is going to be bringing to you. The hearings, day three, this Wednesday, June 15th, they're going to start. We're going to start our coverage one hour before the event. That means we're going to get going at 9 a.m. Eastern, 6 a.m. Pacific on Wednesday for the next edition of the January 6th hearings. As always, make sure to subscribe to our YouTube channel at youtube.com slash Midas Touch to watch the best broadcast with the best

analysts you possibly can for the January 6th hearings. Following that, there'll be another hearing Thursday, June 16th, same time, same place. And then we will go from there and update you about all future coverage. I want to thank the Midas Mighty for this incredible episode of the Midas Touch podcast. I want to thank the hundreds of thousands of people who have tuned into the Midas Touch live streams to watch the hearings. These are record setting events here at Midas Touch. With day two, by the way, already, and we just wrapped up as we're recording this, already eclipsing the viewership of day one on the Midas Touch streaming platform. So thank you to all who listen.

Those who watch the live stream of the hearings know that we're currently doing a 10% off deal at store.midastouch.com. If you use the promo code justice, that's the code deal at store.midastouch.com. If you use the promo code justice, that's the code justice at store.midastouch.com. Get 10% off all your gear. We got a lot of incredible things. And I just want to thank Athletic Greens. I want to do a huge shout out to Harry Littman and a huge shout out to the Midas Mighty for making history this week with the coverage of the January 6th hearings and for being fighters. I think if I could sum up the Midas Mighty with one word, it's that the Midas Mighty don't quit. The Midas Mighty are fighters. The Midas Mighty are in this because we know our democracy is at stake. So shout out

to all of you. And with that, Jordy, I think there's no better time for you to sign us out. Although you might want to say one thing. One quick thing, man. The Midas Mighty move with Moxie. Shout out to say one thing before. One quick thing, man. The Midas Mighty move with Moxie. Shout out to the Midas Mighty.