The MeidasTouch Podcast - Don’t Let the Bastards Grind You Down with Adam Epstein

Episode Date: December 3, 2021

On today’s episode of The MeidasTouch Podcast, we have a wonderful guest, Adam Epstein. Adam is a Tony Award-winning & former original producer of Hairspray on Broadway, who has most recently transitioned into the political commentating landscape. His podcast Dirty Moderate with Adam Epstein drops December 20th and is described as "an extremely not extreme political podcast." Adam’s core beliefs and hunger for good meaty debates led to his podcast debut, bringing people of all political affiliations and opinions together to exchange ideas with open minds, zero animosity, and no fear of being “canceled." The remainder of the episode, the brothers have a very real conversation about Roe v. Wade and the potential impacts of the Supreme Court's decision. Following that, we switch gears and discuss how Donald Trump knowingly tried to give President Biden covid, the looming government shut down and Stacey Abrams announcing her candidacy for Governor of Georgia! If you enjoyed today’s episode please be sure to rate, review and subscribe! As always, thank YOU for listening! DEALS FROM OUR SPONSORS: SOLE: https://yoursole.com/meidas Remember to subscribe to ALL the Meidas Media Podcasts: MeidasTouch: https://pod.link/1510240831 Legal AF: https://pod.link/1580828595 The PoliticsGirl Podcast: https://pod.link/1595408601 Kremlin File: https://pod.link/1575837599 Mea Culpa with Michael Cohen: https://pod.link/1530639447 Zoomed In: https://pod.link/1580828633 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. Welcome to the Midas Touch podcast. Ben Micellis joined by Brett and Jordy Micellis. Brett, not feeling too good today, but he's going to try to get through it. Brett, what's going on over there? I don't know. I came down with a little bit of a sickness. I've got a COVID test just to be sure, but I didn't think it was COVID and test came back negative. So all good there. So it's probably just a classic. I'm sure you hear it in my voice. I'm sure you see it in my face for those who are watching. I'm sure it's just the classic cold or sinus infection. I am sick like it is 2019 again.

I haven't had even like the sniffles in like two years since I started wearing masks and stuff. And of course, like the first time I like start hanging out with friends and see people like it, I get sick again. But I am hanging in there. No days off for Midas Touch. The news just does not stop. I want to do a shout out to one of our followers, Midas Kim, who is an artist who produced this incredible painting of the brothers. And I'm so just humbled and honored. And I'll show the crowd right now who's watching. And if you're listening, I hope you go and take a look at the YouTube. Look how incredible this is. This really, while I've been laying down and just eating a bunch of soup, just having a bunch of

soup and stuff, this is really what's gotten me through it. It's just been the support of the Midas Mighty community and just seeing how incredible everybody is to us and just so humbled and grateful. So thank you, Midas Kim, for this incredible piece of artwork. I'm just so absolutely honored and going to try to power through this show for you guys as best I can. I'm not going to lie. And Jordy, I want to get your take on this. Brett with that sick voice, like it's working for the podcast. He sounds no nonsense. Yeah. You do sound no nonsense. You look awful. Like you look terribly ill. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks, Jordy. I just want to keep it real.

At least you're keeping it real. At least it's not like one of those things where like, you know, when somebody comes up to you, you know, when somebody comes up to you though, and they're like, you look really tired. And you're like, you're just, just say I look terrible. You don't have to hide behind these phrases. I'll say you're doing a great job hiding it. You're wearing the glasses, you're wearing the hat. I wouldn't be able to tell right now if it wasn't for that very serious voice you're

putting on. Yeah. Well, here we are, everybody. Brett Radio Voice, thanks to the sickness and the cold. Let's get serious though, fellas, because some alarming news out of oral arguments, the United States Supreme Court yesterday, the case is Dobbs versus Jackson Women's Health Organization. The oral arguments seem to indicate that the Supreme Court is likely going to overturn Roe v. Wade. The case Dobbs v. Jackson is a case in Mississippi. It involves the constitutionality

of a Mississippi law that bans most abortions after 15 weeks of the pregnancy. And again, this case, though, is a direct attack on Roe v. Wade. The Mississippi law in the lower courts was struck down, which banned abortions 15 weeks and later saying Roe v. Wade, the right to an abortion is a fundamental right under the United States constitution. So the Mississippi law can't survive that constitutionality test. And here, not only were the Supreme Court justices appearing to say that the Mississippi ban is valid, that the Mississippi ban is okay, that it is constitutional. What they seem to suggest as well, though, is that any ban whatsoever, a total ban at any point in time, even before 15 weeks would be okay. So that states themselves can actually totally ban abortions, make abortions

illegal in their states. I mean, the way the Supreme Court's lining up, just for those who don't listen to Midas Touch Legal AF, we're just not familiar with the way the Supreme Court works. There's nine justices on the side of, and you know, I hate the side of liberal versus, you know, right wing conservative, because I just don't think those terms really have applicability or accurate framings of the issues. But if you were to say who would be the kind of liberal progressive wing in the traditional sense of the court, you have Justice Kagan, Justice Breyer, and Justice Sotomayor. On the right wing, the radical right extremist wing, you have Amy Coney Barrett, a Trump appointee, Neil Gorsuch, Trump appointee, Justice Kavanaugh, Trump appointee, Justice Clarence Thomas, Justice Alito, Bush appointee. And then you have Justice Roberts, who's the chief justice, who's also a Bush appointee. So you have six right wing, you have three, if you want to say left wing, progressive to me, the side that actually stands for democracy

and the rule of law. And really what you saw in these oral arguments is Justice Roberts, basically trying to get the court to say the 15 week ban is okay. Let's not totally overturn Roe v. Wade. Okay. And that was the moderating voice of what was going on. That's how you know this is headed in a bad direction. So what the result will either be is, in my view, based on hearing the types of questions that were asked, is either the Mississippi law banning abortions will be upheld, that will be allowed. So other right-wing states are going

to be able to implement similar laws. But more alarmingly, I think Roe v. Wade is going to be overturned. And just if you hear some of the questioning, Brett, like Amy Coney Barrett, not only did she suggest that, she said, well, wouldn't it just be so simple that all women in these situations just get adoption? She went even further than that, though, and said, but states have safe haven laws. You know what a safe haven law is, right? A safe haven law means you can take the baby and abandon it, basically drop it off at certain areas like- Like at a fire station or something to that effect. Fire station at safe haven locations. And what she was saying is, shouldn't we just let mothers do that,

basically abandon their children at these locations? And she asked, why didn't any of the briefs from the United States government and from the organizations supporting the right to, why didn't you address the existence of safe haven laws, which are the right to abandon the baby? Yeah. I mean, at this point, I hate to say it, but I'm not going to sugarcoat it for our audience. It doesn't seem like a matter of if Roe v. Wade is going to be overturned, but when will Roe v. Wade be overturned? And the comments by the justices yesterday really sent shockwaves through me. And this has been a concerted effort of the right wing for now over 50 years to make this happen. They've been working every single election. They have put forth lists of judges that they took over the court with.

They have done the most disgusting maneuvers. McConnell really spearheaded this, I mean, from getting Gorsuch on the court and withholding Obama from being able to put a justice on the court when there was a vacancy then to getting Kavanaugh through and all these people, Amy Coney Barrett. I mean, what we're seeing is that everybody who was saying that America is moving towards a handmade style government, that was not an overreaction in the slightest. That's not hyperbolic. It was not hyperbolic at all. And what we're going to see here is we're going to see a divided

country where more than half the states are going to completely outlaw abortion. And then there are going to be states that allow abortion. And then there may be some states in the middle of that, that have strict restrictions on abortion that make it very difficult for women to get. So they are completely taking away the rights of childbearing persons here. This is such an assault and such an attack on Americans. And this is also an issue that Americans by such a large majority are on the side of allowing abortions in this country. And on the low end, polls say 60, 65% of Americans support keeping Roe v. Wade as the rule of the land. And on the high end, something like 75, 80% of Americans support keeping Roe v. Wade as precedent. And what we've seen is these justices lie their way into power, lie their way because they've been enabled by

people like Mitch McConnell, people like Susan Collins, who have sworn to us, lied to our faces, saying that Roe v. Wade is the law of the land, it is precedent, and we will not do anything with precedent. Meanwhile, now they're making the exact opposite argument in court, right, Ben? They are saying, well, precedent's overturned all the time, and they're comparing it to cases that everybody, that all Americans could get behind, like cases around slavery or gay rights or things to that effect. They're saying, look, those precedents were overturned because we knew that there was a moral problem with it.

So that's no different than us doing that now. I mean, make no mistake, after this, they're not going to stop after this. They're going to come after LGBTQ rights. They're going to come after contraception. They're going to come after all the rights right now that we take for granted until America really is a real life version of the handmaid's tale. And so I really don't know what the answer is to what we do now. All I know is that we're going to have to show up in bigger numbers than ever. We're going to have to rally around this issue and we're going to have to present to voters across the country, to Democrats and independents alike, that this is a issue worth fighting for.

This is an issue why we need to vote and why we need to get control of the court, whether it's, I don't know, expanding the court, getting new justices in there. We need to fight as if this issue is one of the most important issues out there, because it is at this point. This is really a big deal. That's the absurdity when people say the filibuster needs to be maintained because it has this historical procedural benefits and that it ensures collegiality and we can't get rid of this procedural device. Well, the filibuster was removed and does not exist when it comes to the appointment of the justices who are now overturning the will of the people through this case and will be overturning the rule of the people through this case.

And the justices that were appointed to accomplish that goal were done, let's just say it, by Republicans cheating, by Republicans lying, by Republicans manipulating the rules, changing the rules to allow for these nominations to go through when you never should have had them go through. And frankly, Merrick Garland, who many people have been critical of in the role of the DOJ, he should have people who are critical of the work that he's doing. And there are areas where I think we can and should be critical, but he should be a Supreme Court justice right now. And we have a very radical extreme court. What the court will do next after Roe v. Wade is abolished, you hear these arguments, well, there are all these other states out there that if someone still wants to get an abortion, avail themselves of their right to choose of their bodily autonomy, just go to a state that allows it. I'll tell you what's going to happen next. And this is what happens in totalitarian, authoritarian, Taliban-like state. The next thing

they're going to say is they're going to criminalize that travel. They're going to criminalize people who leave the state and try to go into another state to get an abortion. That's, you know, would not shock me. The natural next step. No, absolutely. And it's just so crazy that, you know, you get these justices in, like you said, Ben, without the need for the filibuster. So all you need is 50, 51, 51 votes, right, to get these justices in. But in order to pass legislation to codify Roe v. Wade into law, guess what? Filibuster, you can't get rid of it. No one's going to get rid of it. That right there, that dichotomy, that contrast right there voting rights and passing the voting rights legislation, that the filibuster can't be removed. Why not? What's more important than allowing the will of the people to be heard through legislation about that versus the appointment? versus nine judges where you literally do not have a say in what they're doing, who have been put there because of their dogmatic beliefs instilled from the Federalist Society and placed on this bench in order to carry out far-right fascist ideology. That's what's

happening. We are leaving all of our rights right now in the hands of an extreme court that has become such a political tool. And I was so happy to see Justice Sotomayor call it out yesterday and say, what you're doing is you are putting this political stench on the court and we will not be able to recover from this. That's a Supreme Court justice calling out her own institution, saying that the Supreme Court will never recover from this. And I think that should just send a shockwave through everybody listening to this podcast that that's what's going on right now. And I think the only thing that I could really hope for right now is that this mobilizes Democrats,

this mobilizes independents, this mobilizes people around the country more than ever to get out there to peacefully protest and to show that we are not going to take this minority rule anymore. If and when this ban happens, we need to take to the streets in a responsible and safe way, and we need to show that we are not messing around here. And we will happily spearhead something where we're launching protests across the country about this issue, because this is so important. And we need to use this to mobilize voters to go to the polls more than ever in 2022 and show that we will not let the GQP take away our rights. The first thing I thought of, Brett, after listening to that oral argument for many hours was, you know, my heart feeling for women and childbearing persons

who their right to choose their right to their bodily autonomy, having justices like Kavanaugh, having justices like Clarence Thomas, having justices like Gorsuch, just how disgusting it is for them to lecture these men, lecturing women on the decisions that women should be making with their bodies. And that's what this is about. Not just the right to an abortion, Brett, but it's the right for a woman and a childbearing person to make decisions in consultation with their medical professions over their bodies without the government intervening in those decisions. That's what this is about. And to hear those men lecturing and saying, the United States government, us, the people who are Federalist Society members who chugged beer with ski and skew from the frat day.

We're going to tell you women what you can do with your body. That's the first place that my mind and heart went to. And then the second place was thinking about law students and people in law school and even my own law school journey and thinking, what's the point of it? At the end of the day, the laws are interpreted and determined by the Supreme Court. You read about all of these cases. That's what I was thinking yesterday too, Ben. It's a weak system. Before you even get started, you could have the greatest argument in favor of keeping Roe v. Wade in the world. You could have the best argument in the world,

but it doesn't matter because their beliefs are already ingrained in these justices. The fact that we already know how these justices are going to vote shows you the problem of the system right there. And it shouldn't be called law school anymore. It should just be called political school because at the end of the day, it's just political decisions. The case books, the case files, you read all that. It doesn't make a fucking difference. At the end of the day, you're supposed to learn about precedent and how to cite precedent. It's a predetermined outcome is what we're learning. It's a predetermined outcome that we really have no control over. And it's a predetermined outcome that is being controlled by people who were nominated to a court by presidents who did not get the popular vote

of the American people. All the presidents who put these judges on the court did not win the popular vote of the American people. They represent a minority of the American people. In fact, multiple justices on the court have been credibly accused of sexual assault or rape, and they are the ones who are deciding how a woman should be able to manage her own body and the most important issues to her. This is just, I mean, I don't know how to say it other than it just makes me so upset. And I genuinely don't know what to do other than say, guys, we need to mobilize.

We need to wake up and we need to understand this is why every election is so important. Even if you think your candidate is not 100% perfect, even if you're not happy that a party, that the Democrats didn't get 100% of their agenda done, we have to vote because this is all because Hillary Clinton lost in 2016. This is the ripple effect of Donald Trump, and it's going to be with us now for generations. Now you have, Jordy, you've seen this. The government is on the verge of a shutdown because under our- Because the Republican Party is pro-COVID? Well, under the ridiculous rules when it comes to funding the government,

apparently all it needs is one senator who can basically block the process. And there are multiple GQP senators who are saying because of Biden's vaccine mandate, which by the way, isn't even a mandate, but because of Biden's vaccine mandate, unless that mandate is, if we get rid of that mandate, then they will agree to fund the government. But as long as that mandate is in place, they won't fund the government. First off, it's not a mandate because if you don't want to get the vaccine, it just has like rigorous testing. And so, and I heard this recently too, Brett, I don't know if you told me, I was somewhere where someone goes, I was going to go to the house for Thanksgiving. It was someone who I knew was, you know was an anti-vaxxer, but I assumed that they would at least do testing. I mean, it was someone that I loved. I was going to go to the house anyway. And the person was anti-testing. They're not just

anti-vax, they're anti-testing about their condition of whether they have COVID or not. They don't even want to do that. And that's what Biden's policy is. It is test or be vaccinated. The fact that you have GQP senators saying, we will destroy the United States of America economy because you want to protect the population from COVID, psycho. And it's a double whammy, right? Because they want to destroy the economy by not voting for the government to be funded. At the same time, they want to take away that vaccine or testing requirement. Guess what that vaccine or testing requirement does? It actually enables a healthy economy. Because when people are vaccinated, when people are tested, people could go back to work and the economy could thrive. That's why we are beating expectations now every single month. That's why the economy is roaring back. And that's what the Republicans want to prevent. They want to prevent you and your family being able to go to the store

and buy items. They want to prevent you- They're giddy. They're giddy when there are problems. They want the economy to be bad. And they're not hiding it. I mean, Rick Scott, about a week ago or two ago, he literally called high prices in this country a gold mine politically for Republicans. They are rooting for you to pay more. They are rooting for you to suffer. Now, the thing is, are you going to fall for it? Are you going to fall for it? Or are you going to be able to move on and say, these are the people who are trying to damage me and my family these are the people these are the reason why i'm not able to go to work and feel safe this is the reason why i'm not able to send my kids to to school and feel safe because of covid because of gun violence because of hate all of this that's on the republicans so you could

choose your paths here. Pick what you want. But no, one party is actively fighting against this country, and one party is getting this country back on track and is doing everything possible to make America work again. The Republican Party hates America. They don't want America to win because they know that in 2022, they could point to all the failures, which they helped create as public and political talking points for them to get reelected. Let me talk to you guys about this one senator specifically out of Kansas, Republican Senator Roger Marshall of Kansas. He stands by his opposition on the bill,

saying that shutting down the government is worth actually saving jobs in Kansas. Their logic does not make any sense. In fact, it's not even logic. It's just ridiculousness in the hopes of scoring political points with their constituents. Republicans like America the way I think people like Halloween. They like to dress up. They like to put the decorations on, but they really don't actually care about the meaning behind what this country is. There is difficult work that needs to be done in government. I want you to play the clip read of Nancy Pelosi when she's also asked a ridiculous question about the press when they asked her, well, what's your response to the-

She crushed that clip. She crushed that clip. It's like, well, what's your response to the Republican- And by the way, that's what we need more of. Play, and then I want to comment on it. How do they explain to the public that they're shutting down government because they don't want people to get vaccinated? Why don't you go ask them? This is so silly. This is so silly that we have people who are anti-science, anti-vaccination, saying they're going to shut down government over that.

And you're asking me what's our message. Our message is that we have to respect governance and we have to respect science. And that's what we are doing. And we will pass this legislation. And that's what we're talking about when we're saying that Dems need to go on the offensive. Well, here's the problem, though, Jordi, where I would just kind of disagree with you, though. Not that the Democrats should have to go on the offensive, though, but she was in a defensive posture there, though, and having to respond to a very stupid statement where she was like, why are you even asking me this stupid statement in the first

place? Going on the offensive, Jordi, I would just say would be the Democrats need to go out and affirmatively basically say, this is our message. The Republicans are being stupid. They're trying to shut down the government and destroy your lives. We're trying to fix problems and solve these issues while they over there are trying to harm you. And that's a trick that Republicans do, Jordy, on very minute issues like the inflation issue, which is a serious issue. But when you talk about a 20 pound Turkey going up 75 cents to a dollar while the overall economy is creating jobs, whereas in Trump was the president, you couldn't even buy the Turkey. You couldn't wipe your ass because there wasn't toilet paper. You couldn't get, you couldn't get testing.

A lot of Chris Christie books now are used for toilet paper. I hear there are a lot that's still in stock on the shelves. But Jordy, these are issues that we have, like even right now with what's going on in the Supreme Court of taking away women and childbearing persons' right to choose and bodily autonomy. What we need to do is be united as a political party and go on the offensive and have consistent messaging. And I even see it sometimes on the Twitter comments and comments that I have, which is like, well, what's the point? What are we going to do? Why do we need a peaceful protest? It's like, well, we got to do something. We got to do something. And that could start with all of us

uniting. I think back to the last podcast, Brett, that we had with our guest, Anat. And Anat basically said, we need to activate people. Sure, on the right, they may have Fox News, which also owns the New York Post, which also owns the international magazine, you know, papers, but we can activate the people power and then socialize these views that are in line with what the public polling is showing on these issues. And so we got to lean in on messaging. Exactly. And then just to add to that, leave that defeatist fucking attitude back in 2016. We don't want any part of that. You know, you're not going to come here with good energy, energy to fight, energy to get in here peacefully and do what needs to be done. Leave that shit out of here then. Go cry in the corner. On that note, one of the things that's really been infuriating me that I've been seeing people say right now is, well, if we don't get

voting rights, I'm not voting in 2022. If Democrats can't pass voting rights bill, I'm not voting in 2022. If Democrats can't pass voting rights, a voting rights bill, I'm not voting. So what's the point? Okay. Good job. Good job. You've handed the government to the Republicans. Great job. That is the most insane theory of how government works I have ever heard in my life. And if you don't think the Democrats are fighting tooth and nail for voting rights legislation, and that it's the Republicans and this archaic filibuster that is blocking it, then I do not understand what you're even thinking. And I will say this as well. You are suppressing your own vote by doing that. You are giving in to exactly what Republicans want. If you blame Democrats for not being able to accomplish things

and say, okay, well, then I'm just going to sit it out. You know what happens if you sit it out? Just vote for Trump next time, okay? Just vote for Donald Trump. Vote for Republicans if that's how you feel. Or are you going to get on board and vote for Democrats in 2022, expand our majorities, and make sure that we make voting rights a priority and pass this? Because guess what? I'm going to be real with you right now.

We have a very tough path to passing voting rights. It's going to be very difficult when you have Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema who aren't willing to get rid of the filibuster. We can't pass that on a 51 vote threshold. It can't happen. So it's going to be very hard. So you could either do two things. You could fight like hell to expand our majorities and you could show up in bigger numbers than ever. Or you could kiss the Democratic majority goodbye. You could kiss abortion rights goodbye forever. You could kiss gay marriage goodbye forever. Say goodbye to all your rights. Say hello to guns in schools because that's what you are voting for if you sit this out. It just makes me so angry at that mindset. It's a loser mindset and you need to drop it now because 2022,

we got to be in this together and we need to fight. Yeah. I mean, that was one of the most astonishing things. And when we'll talk about our sponsor in a second, after beating Trump was the first instinct of lots of Democrats and progressives were like, let's attack each other now. Let's screw this group. That group sucks. This politician sucks. This person sucks. You're horrible. You're a piece of shit. It's like, whoa, whoa, whoa. This coalition got Biden elected because of Biden. The judges that we have in the federal courts are not like Amy Coney Barrett. They're not like Neil Gorsuch. Those are the future Supreme Court justices, the people who are now being appointed to the federal bench if we have democratic leadership and power. And so I'm with you, Brett. We just got to cut out that infighting, cut out that loser attitude,

and let's win this thing. Tell us about soul. I'm thrilled that this podcast is brought to you by soul, which is honestly one of the changed my life. I wear my soul sandals like every day. Listen, Ben doesn't stop talking about soul. So I'm going to leave. I'm going to give you a little break right now because you talk about it too much every single day. So I'll take it a little off you.

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new podcasters, people with unique backgrounds who have important things to say, you know, people who are these accidental activists who have kind of stepped into the political arena, similar to our experience. I was so thrilled last episode to highlight a Knott's podcast and found a lot of new fans. And this podcast, I want to feature Adam Epstein. Adam is a former Broadway producer. You probably know just a little thing called Hairspray. He produced 46 nominations, 12 Tony Awards. Adam is the real deal when it comes to Broadway productions. But he took his talents, get this,

to become a liberal commentator on Fox News. Yes, you heard that right. A liberal commentator on Fox News. We're going to have to drill into that. Very rare you're going to find me agreeing with Lindsey Graham. When Abe Lincoln ran for the Senate, what did he say? A house divided against itself cannot stand. Was it not okay for Hillary not to tell anybody that she was getting dirt from Russians? It's not okay for any, it's not okay for anybody, David, but the bottom line is Trump is president. So why don't we hear from George Stephanopoulos about what Hillary did? Because Donald Trump is president, not Hillary.

And a political system that repeatedly allows a minority party to control the most powerful offices in the country is not a legitimate one. And now Adam is hosting a podcast called Dirty Moderate with Adam Epstein that will be starting launching soon in December, December 20th to be exact. And we're going to talk about the podcast, that background. Let's just talk about Adam. First off, welcome to the podcast. Guys, thanks for having me. I love it. I love that introduction, Ben. You can introduce me anytime. You're trying to make people kind of understand my- Ben's a great- Yeah, but you're trying to have people out there going,

how do we get from Broadway to politics? And they're kind of the same thing. But anyway, go ahead. I'm sorry. Well, tell us how you got there. I mean, how do you go from producing Hairspray on Broadway and other hits to becoming a commentator on Fox News and a quote unquote liberal commentator? Although I hate labels and we'll get into that. I do too. And we have to make sure people understand

that my podcast is Dirty Modern. I don't want people to think I have an identity crisis this soon in my career. So basically the long and the short of it is I had two loves. I had a love of theater and I had a love of politics. I came from a family where my grandfather was a bigwig in Florida Democratic politics. I worked for Senator Bob Graham on Capitol Hill. I thought very, very seriously about going into politics right out of college. But I had the theater book. And even though I originally

was a performer, I found my way into producing because I think it was able to use my, for lack of better words, analytical, behind the scenes, creation talents, creative talents and creation talent. And it led me to this career that started very young. I don't know how it all happened. People say, how do you do this? I don't know. There was an empirical method. I would say, hey, here's what you do. And you have a hit at 27. No, I have no idea. But because I had the politics bug, I ended up going to graduate school at 42 years old and now 47. And I got a master's in American studies. And American studies looks at politics, culture, history, and literature of America sort of as a through line, kind of interconnected. I was like, ah, this is the transition for me to put politics and culture together, because I think they are an inseparable

unit, and make my way into the world of political ideas. That's what I wanted to do. I always thought about running. And then I said, no, I don't want to do that. I want to be reading and writing about it. So I've written columns. And then I got put on Fox because I had a good agent and I ended up loving it. But I wanted to go where Democrats, and I'm actually an independent, but where those who are not right wing don't go. You know what I mean? And they've had, I wanted to go and spend at least a year there sparring and talking. And sometimes it was obnoxious. Sometimes it was thrilling. Sometimes we agreed. But I just felt it was an important place. And, you know, I think it opened up all these opportunities that I now have.

And I hope to share on my podcast and obviously with you guys and beyond, you know. You know, it's not usually friendly territory going on Fox. And sometimes there's this debate that I think people who share liberal values need to think through before going on Fox, because it's like, are you going to be used as like a puppet for their agenda where they're going to put the chyron and say all these things about you in kind of a staged way. But see, you managed to thread the needle, which is why I want you to have you on this podcast, because when you see the clips of you on Fox News, you sparred with them. You pushed back on their ideas. You didn't take shit from them. How did you manage that, though? And what can you kind of tell other, you know, progressive liberals? Should other should should Democrats be going on Fox News right now?

Absolutely. I mean, listen, you know, you can bring up a whole host of reasons and their alliances and who their advertisers are. But I tried to remind people that whether we like it or not, they're the most watched network. I know that's horrifying. If you go to a doctor's office, let's say in Kansas City, and you're sitting there, it's usually Fox on TV. I'm just pointing that out. Same thing was true when I was in Nashville. But 43% of their audience consider themselves independent, according to independent data. I can't remember the source, which is interesting just because people just put it on. So where I'm going with this is, yes, you should go on. Secondly, I think I have the value, and this is why I'm doing Dirty Moderate, of being somebody who caucuses with the Democrats,

you know, considers myself a political hybrid, but is able not to just come on and do Democratic big D talking points. Do you know what I mean? And just say, well, this is what we said. This is what we said. You know, there were times they got me on there and Fox knows that sweet spot. And one of the members of our party, as every politician can, they say stupid things or say something that's like, oh, God, why did you say that? That's going to hurt the brand. It's going to cost us a seat. And I'd go on and say, hey, I don't agree with Congressman so-and-so, but here's what I do agree with. For example, they were making light of climate change once and about the Democrats in the 2020 presidential debate, putting emphasis on that. And they were, how could you do this? And why do you care about a plastic straw? And I said, look, guys, slow down. I said, the planet's

burning. Okay. The Republicans are offering nothing. You have no agenda for, for ecological climate crisis. And so you're, you're making, yes, it should be a priority. You know, you're upset. It was the first thing they talked about. Well, it is probably the first thing to talk about. The point being is what is your plan? You know what I mean? If you're not a climate denier, and I point to them, so some of you say you're not, so what's your plan? You know, you don't have to like the green new deal. I don't like everything about the green new deal, but that doesn't mean don't do anything about climate change. You see what I mean? So that used to put them in a place because they were expecting, I would be like, the Democrats have never said anything wrong. And liberalism is

the right way. And everyone has ever been a conservative is a fool, you know, and our binary culture lends itself to that. Of course, Trumpism being such a scourge, it's made it very difficult to find a moral place in that world. But I think you still have to say the issues matter. And, you know, per the Democrats electoral fortunes coming up, they better work on what issues they're selling that I support by voting for Biden, you know, that people understand and relate to because they're going to have to fight this propaganda machine and they better learn how to do. I don't know why the Democrats don't know how to do this.

It's so frustrating, you know, and we get we're always back at square one. You know what I mean? And while I mean, Joe Biden's doing great things, you know, but you wouldn't know it for all we know about his critical race theory, right? And inflation, which we know is a supply chain issue and all these things that they're going to demonize and use against the Democrats. And I, you know, but you're going to have to fight back. What happened? It's the economy, stupid. So Bill Clinton said when he ran in 92, not to go on a diet. But I think the reason that you start Dirty Moderate is because you want to fight back against that propaganda machine and not even through the lens of,

hey, this is progressive or liberal versus this is conservative. Just this is what the truth is. But this propaganda machine that is Fox News, what we can't recognize what we all have to recognize. They wouldn't book me anymore. Just, you know, after a year, as soon as the 2020 campaign started heating up, I'd be like, yeah, I don't think we're going to need you as regularly. And I was like, you guys rejected me? You know, but I was kind of like, okay, I did my thing. I was exclusive, by the way, to Trish Regan primetime. Trish, who lost her job over something controversial that she said, which I thought was unfair because everybody says things that are controversial, way more than her. I was her sort of liberal antagonist every week. Yeah. And all of a sudden, I was- Well, they want the weak liberal who looks dumb, right? I mean, it's the

Hattie and Combs model. They want somebody weak who they could point at and go, look at this idiot. He doesn't have any arguments. He doesn't have any plan. Yeah, 100%. I think I did one too many, does he agree with us or does he not agree with us? And that's, you know what I mean? I'm not pulling a sleight of hand. I was just being honest about how I felt about a variety of issues, most of which happened to place me on the liberal side of the spectrum. And Adam, I think you telepathically, that's what I was going to ask you. I was going to say, how do you fight this propaganda machine, though, when the moment you start delivering the truth the way you were on the platform, that they then basically cut you and cut other people who are trying to disseminate truthful information that would save lives? Like, wait a minute Vaccines are helpful. Right. I mean, I mean, you know, I several people have tweeted this or said it in a variety of terms. They're going to brand they've always no matter what we do or the Democrats do, I should say they're socialists, they're communists. They they they're not the real America. Jim Jordan, that asshole, tweeted something so ridiculous about the real America is done with COVID, you know, and I think what the Democrats should be doing every step of the way, because their policies clearly are putting the country in the right direction, in my view, are better for everybody.

And I say that as an independent, there's better policies. First of all, at least they have policies other than tax cuts. Why are we not out there? Are they out there? I keep saying we, I, because I'm one foot in, one foot out. They're the pro-insurrection, pro-COVID party. They are the pro-insurrection, pro-COVID party. Now, think about it. I love the Lincoln Project for a certain reason, because A, I share some of their values. B, they're warriors on behalf of democracy, like myself, and that's what matters to me most. But where are the DNC and the Democratic attack ads showing endless footage of a cop getting uh suffocated behind doors at the capitol of that vicious attack of trump saying drink bleed like there's so much um um re uh research and and and so many clips that you can show that as this as we as i'm talking about the 2022 campaign like we should be in attack mode you know what i mean because let me tell you what, and Rick Wilson says it all the time, you're not going to win this thing on policy. That's just not what wins it, sadly. So you have to find a way,

like anything, to sell it. And you want the good guys to win, but if you don't sell it, I have to say, and I think I've said this to you guys off camera too, if you want to do, this is my line, if you want to do the policy, you've got to do the politics. You just can't have it, but you can't say, I can't believe people voted against us on the economy. Well, if they're being lied to or don't know or disengaged or don't know the stakes, you can't just say, you can't just blame them, right? We have to, you know, and you guys are so awesome at resistance. You have to build a resistance movement that's loud and you can't get tired. Democracy depends on the tireless warrior. Apathy is the road to authoritarianism. Sadly, democracy also, though, sometimes requires, though, when people need to fight for it, that requires financing. As a Broadway producer, I'm sure you're very attuned.

I'm attuned. I don't miss those financing days. Yeah. You have to finance the play, right? You have to find the theater. You have to spend the money, marketing money to sell tickets in most cases. If you're not a huge hit, you got to build an audience. I know. Well, I'm not saying nobody's doing it. It just feels a little more diffuse in a really crowded space.

You know what I mean? I just would love the Democratic Party to have as ruthless and visceral an attack ad, for example, as Lincoln Project does. The minute something that happens there, Republicans say something, they have an ad out just ripping them apart. And the suburbs are up for grabs now, right? We saw that in Virginia. We almost saw it in New Jersey. Those suburbs won by the election and they were typically moderate Republican suburbs. If we lose the suburbs, we're going to have big problems. Do you think, though, the wealthy billionaires, those who call themselves liberal or progressives, though, I always ask, where are they? I know on the right wing, those billionaires, the wealthy hundred millionaires, they're funding and financing the Federalist Society.

They're funding amicus briefs, every aspect of it. And what always struck me as something so peculiar about our journey as the Midas Touch Brother group is that we're like the biggest group out there now. We're funded by small dollar donations. I say, I think I like tweeting, hey, can you please help contributing $5 here and there? No, I want a billionaire to come in to fund the operation so we can crush it every single day. But where are they, Adam? Well, this is the question of A, nature pours a vacuum, which is why you guys have filled it so terrifically. And because you do it so devotedly and relentlessly in the best sense, I think it is symptomatic. I mean, you guys can weigh in here of the classic Democratic Party thing, which is we're just a very big tent party. Or they are. We are there.

And it's despairing. You know, you got people. Let me rephrase it. The Republican Party is a straight white corporate marketing machine that marches in lockstep. And that's what they do. You know what I mean? And everybody's on board. You don't get on board, you're out. Trump, I mean, look at this. People are not running for reelection because Trump said their mother's ugly or whatever the hell he says. He's such an asshole. Whatever horrible insult or degradation he throws, they're so worried about upsetting Donald Trump, right? I mean, this is just, you know, so we don't

have, my point is, the same kind of fierce discipline. That being said, I don't know why a billionaire progressive or billionaire Democrat can't sort of form maybe a more cohesive way to attack. I mean, it leaves room open for my podcast, for you guys, for people to speak up, but you're right. You know what I mean? No dough, no show. And Adam, not for lack of trying, we've tried to reach out to all the big donors out there. They've all stayed far away. I don't know what it is. Raising money is horrible. Oh, it's absolutely the worst. Trust me. And you guys have so much going. No, seriously. I used to have that with shows. I'm like, you don't want to invest.

There's no rhyme or reason to it. That's why we encourage everybody out there. If you see an outside group that's doing good work, whether it be Midas Touch or the Lincoln Project or Democratic Coalition or any of these groups that are inspiring you, pitch in and donate because the billionaires aren't stepping up. So it's really on us, the people, to do the work. What I want to say is, okay, so you call yourself a dirty moderate. When you're on Fox News, I'm sure they call you a dirty liberal. They call me a liberal columnist. It was always the liberal, our favorite liberal tonight. So that was the point, Ben, about they like to use you. But you know what? They punch your bag, punch back. That's all you can do. What do you think that says about the country,

though, that you who call it... First, what is a dirty moderate? Let's step back for a second. So dirty moderate is great. So dirty moderate is a phrase I coined with a good friend of mine who is super progressive. And 2020 came along, and obviously Hillary's loss, he was for Bernie, and Hillary's loss happens. And he's just, you know, part of this movement that's just devastated, as the country was. But as we got to 2020, I said to him, look, Biden's got to be the nominee. Okay. I like all these people. Don't get me wrong. They're not going to win, even with a pandemic. It's got to be Joe.. Okay. I like all these people. Don't get me wrong. They're not going to win even with a pandemic. It's got to be Joe. And he, you can't go with Bernie this time. And he was like, Hey, you know, I voted for Biden in the primary, you know, and that was like, I'm coming around. And I went dirty moderate. And he was like, no, don't say that. And it's

been our inside joke. But the truth is I like it because I am really the moderate. And I like that it's a play on obviously being dirty. But also, there's this thing in America where because we're a right-left binary, everything is hero or villain, somehow you have no principle or you're a sellout or you don't stand for anything. And by the way, Joe Manchin's not a dirty moderate. That's not what we're talking about. I'm talking about people that are ideological hybrids.

I have some views here, some views there. I may lean one way. I don't think, you know, every single thing that the conservative philosophy has espoused in 70 years is bad. That being said, there is no conservative party right now. It's a cult. The Trump is cult. But you know what I'm saying? So I felt like I didn't fit comfortably just in the Democratic Party, but by no means am I a Republican. And I will vote Democratic because you only have two choices and everything's on the line. So that's kind of the origin of it and where I always find myself just coming back to the center. And it's issue by issue, which I think is how people often really are.

I think many of us amplify certain voices that are very thorough and in many cases very dogmatic. And most people are a little more fluid, I think. Well, what do you think it means about kind of where our country is headed, the trajectory, that you consider yourself fairly center, you know, takes issues with both sides, of leads Democratic. What do you think, though, it says about the trajectory of the country that when you go on Fox News, that does make you a liberal economy, all the all this sort of things? Where do you think the country's headed? Well, so first off, I think the country's heading in a very dangerous direction. But let me back up because I want listeners to know this. This is not I'm not both sides in anything. The threat is from the right. The threat is from Trumpism. Okay, I'm not saying because I might disagree, let's say with a particular Democrat or a Democratic platform that by that it's not,

these are not comparable things. Those are policy differences. There is an existential threat facing the country and it's being done under the cover of the night. And what I mean by that is, yes, people are saying you got to watch how state legislatures are taking over the vote, the map process and the redistricting process, gerrymandering. You know, some of these things will stay, some will go to court, some have Democratic governors, but they are, the Republicans or the Trumpublicans, I think as somebody once called them, are setting the stage to control the sort of foundational levels of power. And that's what I'm worried about, from state houses where they control to local offices to being able to mobilize because they are the fear grievance mobilizers,

as you know, they will, you know, they hear critical race theory, they hear trans right, everything, they just freak out. And that's enough to get them out there. But it's allowing even well-intentioned people who might think they're Republicans to align themselves with people that are literally undermining the democratic process. And the Voting Rights Bill, I mean, is so important, both for the People Act and the John Lewis Act, because it's the only safeguard. Because we don't have, the Democrats since 2010 got slaughtered at the state level. 2020 wasn't even that great. Don't have enough power to counteract this. So the federal government is going to have to be the guardrail of democracy. one of the great abominations of SCOTUS I've ever seen in my life, taking away federal oversight of southern states, which is what it did, that had previously been racist or old Confederate states.

So, you know, I guess what I'm saying is the country, we do get mired in Washington and, oh my God, he wants more money for family leave or universal pre-K. All these things are very important. But do you want to be like the autocratic states of America? I mean, in other words, like, hey, we got the great high speed rail, but fascists are in power, you know, so we have to, you know, and I know this is the diagnosis, not the prognosis. But, you know, I just think people are so exhausted from the Trump era. They're not, not us. But many of people who agree with us are very disengaged, because they're like, I don't have the energy. And why did Junkin win? I'm like, well, like you said, you guys got to be out here all the time, fighting the fight. That's why I'm doing my podcast. I got to be out there all the time

and I'm welcoming guests on with whom I disagree, not to bully them or imagine them saying, come on, let's talk about this stuff. It's all we got, right? No, totally. And it feels like America is just in this circular pattern of Democrats get into power. They start cleaning up the mess of Republicans. People start complaining that the mess isn't being cleaned up enough quick enough. And then they go, I'm not voting for Democrats because X, Y, Z hasn't passed and because all the problems aren't solved. So I'm going to sit this one out or I'm going to vote Republican. Republicans then destroy the country once again. And the same thing happens over and over again. How do we break the cycle? I mean, it's just so infuriating to me. I want to smash my head

against the desk every time I think about this. Me too. I mean, Bill Clinton was my first vote in 92. Exactly that happened. Bill Clinton inherited a mess. They lost Congress in 94. He got reelected. Remember Obama? Open change. Within two years, everybody or everybody, the many voters turned on him. They lost Congress and we lost more power. Here we are again. I mean, I'm expecting the 2020 elections. I don't know about the Senate, but the House to be really difficult for us to hold on to the House. I think it honestly, this is a pall that's hanging over our process that always goes back to messaging. I really believe that. I think that it's much harder to do things as a Democrat.

For example, you know, oh, we want to reform welfare. That was always a debate, right? The Republicans, get a job, right? Go to McDonald's, get a job. And then the Democrats have to say, like, a lot of people do want to work. All right. They've fallen on hard times. They don't have credit. They don't have a home. You know, it's like, get a job. But it's the simple, easy, go get them. Pull yourself up by the bootstraps. You know, for lack of a better word, it's sexier. It rings and people go at home. You hear that? People got to work for themselves. I'm tired of

these freeloaders. And then it leads into this really reductive, stupid message, you know? And I think that has been so injected into the political DNA for so long with them. And the Democrats come in and say, hey, we got to clean up this trash heap here. They go, oh my God, why are they doing that? What do you mean? And you're like, you just voted us in to get rid of that, you know. And as we become, I think, a more fickle, fast-paced, fast-food ADD society, an Instagram-ready society, I think people don't have an attention span. They're like, oh my God, inflation's bad. I hate Biden. It was a mistake. We're doomed. It's like, okay, slow down. You know what I mean? But the critical thinking apparatus is clearly defunct in this country. And we're unable to see things in a weird sort of way for what they are.

We sort of want to see them for where we want them to be collectively. You know, and I actually don't know how to overcome that because we're in this cycle again where I expect, you know, the Democrats could very well, God willing, win in 2024, but we might get slaughtered in 22. And it's like Groundhog Day again, you know, and like you said, Brett, it is it's infuriating. And then, Adam, I got to ask you something. Yeah, we we learned something that, you know, frankly, we probably already knew. But Trump had COVID at the debate with Biden, knew he had COVID and met directly with military families, Biden and others. You know, these appear to be, there appears to pretty much be no bottom when it comes

to Trump, pretty much. That's exactly right. Isn't that the craziest thing ever? Literally, I'm glad we're talking about this. You know, I said on the phone to my dad this morning, I said, can you, what do you think of this Trump COVID thing, of the debate? And he said, you know what, Adam? How low can this guy go?

And I think to myself, but here's what I say. And I said this all during the Trump era because I'm sort of just an eye on the prize guy. Okay, Trump is a horrible human being. I mean? That informs his terrible, horrible self. And so you're going to hear more and more as time goes on. You're going to hear, how about that interview with Woodward when he did where he knew how bad it was and he played it down. I always say, if Trump had just said in 2020, listen, MAGA people, wear a mask. Wear a mask that says make America great again. They all would have worn masks. They all have listened you know i mean but you know what they've even not they're not even listening to him anymore do you see the rally where he said get vaccinated they booed him

but two months ago they booed him he's lost control of the monster he's lost control of the monster they're still in the cult but it's like now they don't trust anything and don't trust that they don't have but the fact that if anything he did start operation warp speed he oversaw the horrible deaths. And I don't want to give him really any credit, but that did start in the Trump administration. Instead, he's going around talking about how Joe Biden is, you know, shouldn't do anything. He should stay at home or whatever. He just, he's a vile guy. And I still can't believe that I still and this is what I get 74 million people voted for more than they did the first time. It's like after that, guys, after this shit show, you're like, yeah, I'll do it again. I don't like Biden. I'm tired of him. I don't like Kamala. Well,

that's a good reason. You know, I mean, it's just the Hillary thing. Well, I don't like Hillary. I'm like, OK, you don't have to like Hillary. I happen to like Hillary. But I mean, I would say to people, I don't like her. I said, so you're going to vote for Donald Trump? I mean, it's just, you know, I don't like vanilla ice cream. And as I want dessert, well, you know what? Okay, I'll eat horse manure. Yeah, I'll eat shit instead. You're going to eat horse manure just because you want dessert and they don't have vanilla? What kind of shit is this? I can't get over it. And that's, I'm sorry. I'm straight talker. I think it's bullshit. And in the bowl too. And I just, so that's what I think. I think, Jordy, there is no bottom. So expect more. But here's the thing, not just for us, everybody listening, take your outrage

and register, get involved with the Senate race. Stacey, not just for us, everybody listening, take your outrage and register. Get involved with the Senate races. Stacey Abrams running for governor. Beto running for governor. Tim Ryan for senator in Ohio. Great candidates that can give us power. Real leaders, too, with people not only with whom I agree. I think they're just all good people that will make a difference.

Get involved. So, yes, be pissed off. Get angry. Do all that stuff. Take your Xanax or whatever. But please don't disengage. No, whatever it is, have a nice glass of wine, but don't give up, guys. Yeah, and don't eat.

And at the end of the day, the advice also is don't eat horse manure or don't do – if you do nothing, it's the same pretty much as eating the horse manure. The horse manure will be shoved in your face. Your vote, your vote, your lack of a vote or your vote for for against Hillary in 2016. But certainly if you didn't vote for Biden, hey, man, you know, you're part of it. If you're in a swing state and, you know, the Electoral College is fascinating because it's so awful. You have Biden winning by 81 by seven and a half million votes. Right. You got 81 million votes. But if 40 I think it's forty five thousand votes in three states where they were different in the Electoral College, I think it's 45,000 votes in three states, where they were different in the Electoral College, I think it's Michigan, Arizona, Georgia, to my memory, or maybe Wisconsin, Georgia, Arizona, I can't remember. Trump would have won. After overseeing the death at that point of what 400,000 people after all the craziness after

trading favors with Ukrainian undermining elect. It's just, so, yeah. So that's a problem of our system. That's an internal constitutional problem. But at the same time, there are going to be people that are going to vote for this guy. He is going to be the nominee in 2024. I really believe that. I mean, because who's going to be? He's not going to sit there and watch Ron DeSantis take the glory.

He can't handle it, you know? And I wished he would be in jail. I just don't think he will be. I think this guy invades it all. But I actually think he's beatable as much as it's going to be a traumatic year. I think he's very beatable because I think he's damaged goods. And I think he alienates so many people. Not that I would let my guard down, but I do think he's very beautiful.

Well, we're excited to let you see your guard come up on Dirty Moderate with Adam Epstein. We're excited for that podcast. It drops December 20th, and we're glad and fortunate, as much as people will love your plays that you've produced, and a bunch of others in addition to Hairspray. Kind of hit after hit, but we're fortunate to have you as a political commentator now speaking out about these important issues. Adam Epstein, thanks for coming on the Midas Dutch podcast. Thanks guys. Great to be here. Great having Adam on the show. I'm excited to check out his podcast, Dirty Moderate. I got nervous. I wanted to talk to him about when I was in the play at my camp when I was Troy from High School Musical.

See if he wanted to do one more play and I could potentially star in. I was going to ask him about that. You were looking for a role? Just in case my touch doesn't work out. I told you about the role I had on a play. Were you

Troy Bolton from High School Musical which is the lead because I auditioned for Guys and Dolls uh went to high school at Plainview Old Bethpage I did uh Guys and Dolls and I got a role called Angie the Ox which is a made-up role I don't think Angie the Ox is actually a character in Guys and Dolls. But my one line was, hey, Nathan, do you know who's coming to town? Sky Masterson. Sky Masterson is coming to town, which is a pivotal line. No, Ben, I'm looking up right now.

Angie the Ox is a character in the play. There you go. Angie the Ox is a character in the play there you go angie the ox is a gambler with one solo speaking line wow the line you just said hey nathan say you know who else is looking for action so i actually botched the one line that oh you messed it up i said yeah i said okay hey you know who's in town? Sky Masterson. Sky Masterson's in town. Angie exits. It's the silliest line. There you go. But the actual line was say, you know who else is looking for action? Sky Masterson. Sky Masterson's in town. And I had to say it with an accent like, hey, Nathan. Hey, Nathan. You had to, or that was your choice yeah that was a riff

you weren't the lead you weren't singing and dancing throughout the whole play you just had one line i just want to be clear about this i mean i sang a lot of the songs though so like i was one of the background dancers so in a group in a group though you were a voice yeah you weren't like the solo singer. You were not called the vocalist. Call it sad, call it funny, but it's better than even money. That the guy's only doing it for a doll. Okay, that's good. That's not bad.

The guy's only doing it for a doll. I'm going to be honest. You actually, you have a decent singing voice. I have a good, like it's a borderline baritone. I think I need to cut you off there before we have to start paying some deep licensing fees for the song. That's a good point. All right, back to the news.

Back to it. Trump gave everybody COVID, huh? Yeah, what the fuck? He's a fucking serial killer. No, he's a serial. What he did was actually attempted murder. No, I agree. I agree 100%.

Let's break down the timeline because I think probably by now all you know the gist of the story. It turns out, according to Mark Meadows' new book, not that he's the most trustworthy person on the planet, but Mark Meadows said, he was very close to Trump, of course, Mark Meadows said that Trump had a positive COVID test prior to the debate with President Biden in September of 2020. Now, this means Trump lied, first of all, and Trump was clearly trying, I guess, to kill President Biden, then candidate Biden. And so I'll break down the timeline so it's clear for everybody,

and you will see just how disgusting this human being is and all the people that he put at risk along the way. And probably infected, like legitimately, the people that he put at risk along the way. And probably infected, like legitimately. The people that knew, like Melania. We'll get to that too. Legitimately. We'll get back to that in a second. So September 26th, they held that White House celebration for Amy Coney Barrett.

Now, as I said earlier in the show, Justice Sotomayor was talking about not being able to get rid of the political stench of the court. Well, how much stankier can you get than hosting an event in the Rose Garden of the White House, hosting a political event to applaud and celebrate the addition of a Supreme Court justice? What a horrifying thing to do right then and there. So after this event, Trump tests positive for COVID. And if you remember, basically everybody in the world tested positive for COVID at that event. We all remember just one by one, everybody in the administration, this person has COVID, that person has COVID, this person has COVID, that person has COVID. So then the next day, Trump meets with Gold Star families. These are families of troops who lost their loved ones in battle.

Families of fallen soldiers. Trump will later blame the Gold Star families for getting COVID, despite the fact that he had COVID when he met them, putting their lives at risk. On the 28th, Trump holds two outdoor events, one ironically on the subject of COVID testing. Now, if you go back and look at the clips, you'll notice that Trump and Pence are speaking at complete opposite sides of one another, which is very unusual. They never spoke like that before. Much more distant than you've ever seen him. And Trump, in fact, makes a joke to his COVID testing czar at the time. He goes, good luck. Hope you don't test positive when he comes up to the mic to speak. Once again, Trump knows that he has tested positive for COVID when he holds this COVID event. On the 29th, Trump travels to Ohio

for his first debate with President Biden. Trump was actually not tested before that event, lied about being tested, lied about having a negative test. And if you go back in the footage and look, and kind of when she greeted him, only kind of gave him a fist bump and like kept her arm distance at a very peculiar way. Once again, because Trump had COVID. Now, what I think Trump was trying to do, and yes, like this is speculation because hey, this is not something you could prove unless there are words to this effect or that it's in writing,

but I think Trump was trying to kill Joe Biden on the stage. I don't know how else you could look at it. Trump gets up there, he's screaming, he's spitting, he's being disgusting. He's in this tiny room next to his competition. I think Trump was trying to take the guy out. It's attempted murder. He showed up late for that debate. That was the reason why he didn't get tested, right? That was sort of the genesis of why he wasn't tested. Yeah. And I don't understand why this isn't put in the same category as the way we criminalize any other disease when somebody goes around and tries to willingly spread disease. Yeah. Knowingly spreading diseases is a crime. I mean, that is a crime that has been prosecuted numerous

times, especially when it comes to HIV or AIDS. That is something that's prosecuted. I mean, you're not allowed to do that. I know you said to the audience that they could go in and look at that clip of the spouses greeting each other, but I think it's worth showing it. The recount actually has a great side-by-side that we have right here. We'll pull it up right now for people to watch while we continue to speak about the rest of it. It's because you forget, Jordy, about your audio audience, man. I'm not sure. No, no, no.

Because I'm pushing everyone to YouTube, which they should subscribe to immediately. That's Midas Touch on YouTube. Okay. I apologize audio audience for Jordy. We love you. Brett and I love you. I'm sorry about him. So because... Sorry, Jordy. We love you, Brett, and I love you. I'm sorry about him. So because Jordy, I'm just teasing you because Trump's a malignant narcissist though. Trump thought that

he wasn't going to have any negative ramifications from it also. And that's why he thought he would just be able to kind of spread it to everyone. I agree with you, Brett. I mean, my, my opinion, again, it's speculation, but you could deduce it from the facts is that he was trying to kill others around him and to create chaos in the election process. One other funny observation though about this, because Chris Christie only sold 2000 books, I think that Mark Meadows PR team around it knew that that was a way to get attention for the book because they were freaking out. They probably paid him a huge advance and they were worried that his book isn't going to sell and it probably still won't sell. So they revealed that and other insight from the book. And then Meadows is denying a lot of the things in his book that he's calling that he said in his book that his PR team is putting out as quotes from his book.

And so he they are quoting their own his own book as fake news. And it just shows you just how absurdly disingenuous. I mean, these people are just really it's it's offensive to clown. It would be it would be comical if it just wasn't so dangerous for the country. The whole thing is absurd there, Brett. But on some positive news, we hear that Stacey Abrams will be running for- It's been a rough episode, y'all. There's a lot of bad news, and I'm sorry, but hey- We started out, Brett, being really sick to start the episode, and now-

But hey, you know when you listen to the show that we're not going to sugarcoat things and we're going to tell you things how they are. And we're in a very serious time and a very serious fight for our democracy in this country. And we're going to lay out the seriousness and the severity of these issues because we're not going to lie to you. And we need to make sure that everybody understands just how serious what is happening to our country is and make sure that you are motivated to fight. Now, when we say all these things, like we were saying with our fight for voting rights, like we're saying with gun laws and everything that we're speaking about in this episode, here's what you need to do. You need to be empowered to fight back at the polls by peacefully protesting. You need to stay involved and you need to get involved because the next elections are going to be setting the stage for future cases.

So you need to be getting involved today. And I hope that this motivates you. As Ben was saying, Stacey Abrams has announced that she is running for governor of Georgia in 2022. Now, I am extremely excited about this. This, of course, comes just really like a week after Beto O'Rourke announced that he is running for governor in Texas. Now, if anybody can electrify the Democratic base, it is those two names right there. It is Stacey Abrams and it is Beto O'Rourke. And now I think it is our duty to stand up to do whatever we can, whether it be donating, text banking, knocking on doors,

doing everything in your power to vote for Stacey Abrams and Beto O'Rourke or make sure that others vote for these two incredible candidates. Now, we're going to face some headwinds. I'm not going to lie about it. But here's one of the things that I also don't want you to do. I don't want you to be defeatist about these races also. And a lot of people bring up voting rights about this. I've already gotten plenty of tweets about this. They say, oh, well, how could Stacey Abrams or Beto O'Rourke win with all the gerrymandering out there? Let me be clear. Gerrymandering does not affect statewide elections, not one bit. These elections will not be decided by gerrymandering. Now what does? Voter suppression. Voter suppression is a real threat that can affect these results. But that's why I love these two candidates specifically,

because they thrive on overcoming voter suppression. Think about, let's go to Stacey Abrams particularly, right? Think about what Stacey Abrams has been able to accomplish for this country on the outside. She has helped bring in, first off, she helped make Biden president by getting Biden to win Georgia, huge victory. She brought us two Democratic senators in the state of Georgia, flipping both seats.

She brought us over 49, yes, 49 flip seats in municipal elections in the state of Georgia. And that was just this month, or last month, rather, in November. Stacey Abrams knows how to overcome voter suppression. She has been building a movement for what feels like the last decade to make this happen. And Beto O'Rourke has also been building a movement with his Powered by People organization. So do not think that these two cannot win. I want to see Governor Beto O'Rourke. I want to see Governor Stacey Abrams.

And it is not only possible, it is probable, and it is likely. But we need you to show up, and we need you to understand that every election matters. Because guess what also? They will have power to be making the maps that decide gerrymandering of the states. They will be able to have a say over the redistricting in these states, beyond even just their power as governor, to prevent these draconian laws from passing in their states. Abortion bans, guess what? That's not going to happen with Governor Stacey Abrams. I assure you that. Vote for Stacey Abrams. Vote for Beto O'Rourke. Let's get excited. Let's get fired up and let's not let them get us down. Now, we made a reference

to Handmaid's Tale earlier in this episode, right? Well, there is a translated phrase from that show that I want you to leave the show with, and that's don't let the bastards get you down. I would try the Latin version of that, but I would just make a fool of myself if I used the Latin version that they use in the show. But don't let the bastards get you down. When we are feeling down, take the opportunity to work 10 times harder to overcome everything they are doing. And we have a great opportunity here with Beto and with Stacey Abrams.

And I am super excited to pour my heart and soul into making sure that they win their races in 2022. I don't know about you. Well said, Brett. Jordy, final words for the, for the Midas mighty man. I don't have anything to add to what Brett said, but I do have one more thing to say, and that's just shout out to the Midas mighty.