The MeidasTouch Podcast - Former CIA Official Ned Price Reacts to Trump Threats

Episode Date: May 25, 2025

MeidasTouch host Ben Meiselas reports on Donald Trump caving to Putin and giving up negotiating a cease fire and Meiselas interviews Ned Price,  an intelligence and national security professional who spent more than a decade at the CIA, served at the White House’s National Security Council, U.S. Department of State, and was the Deputy to the U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations. Remember to subscribe to ALL the MeidasTouch Network Podcasts: MeidasTouch: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/meidastouch-podcast Legal AF: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/legal-af MissTrial: https://meidasnews.com/tag/miss-trial The PoliticsGirl Podcast: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-politicsgirl-podcast The Influence Continuum: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-influence-continuum-with-dr-steven-hassan Mea Culpa with Michael Cohen: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/mea-culpa-with-michael-cohen The Weekend Show: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-weekend-show Burn the Boats: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/burn-the-boats Majority 54: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/majority-54 Political Beatdown: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/political-beatdown On Democracy with FP Wellman: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/on-democracy-with-fpwellman Uncovered: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/maga-uncovered Coalition of the Sane: https://meidasnews.com/tag/coalition-of-the-sane Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Conditions apply. Details online. Ukraine President Zelensky recognized the dog and pony show that Donald Trump was trying to set up with Vladimir Putin when he held a phone call earlier in the week after Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump refused to show up in Istanbul, Turkey when Zelensky showed up after Putin claimed he wanted to have a peace discussion, which we said from the outset was all propaganda to engineer a direct phone call, we thought, with Donald Trump, which ended

up happening earlier in the week. If anyone was reporting that there was productive things that came out of that phone call, perhaps for Putin, but Donald Trump essentially, in my view, was saying, we're out. We're not dealing with anything. Let Putin do what you want to do. Zelensky, I think, recognized that in diplomatic language. Here's what Zelensky posted yesterday. He goes, I spoke with Trump twice today. First, we had a one-on-one call before his conversation with the head of Russia, and

later we spoke together with Trump and European leaders, Emmanuel Macron, Georgia Maloney from Italy, a federal chancellor, Bundeskanzler, President Alex Stubb, and president of the European Commission, von der Leyen. This is a defining moment. The world can now see whether its leaders are truly capable of securing a ceasefire and achieving real lasting peace. And I think if you decode Zelensky's language when he says whether they're leaders, he's also referring to Donald Trump there. At the beginning of our bilateral conversation,

I reaffirmed to Trump that Ukraine is ready for a full and unconditional ceasefire as he has spoken about, particularly the United States. It is important not to dilute this proposal if the Russians are not ready to stop the killings. There must be stronger sanctions. Pressure on Russia will push it toward real peace. This is obvious to everyone around the world.

I also reiterated Ukraine is ready for direct negotiations with Russia in any format that brings results. You want to do it in Turkey. You want to do it in the Vatican, you want to do it in Switzerland. We're considering all venues. It's not necessary to convince Ukraine and our representatives are prepared to make real decisions and negotiations. He goes on and on, but let's not forget that Zelensky has already agreed to an unconditional

ceasefire while Putin keeps sending ballistic missiles killing innocent civilians in Ukraine So when Trump was asked about this phone call the one thing he kept on talking about is how he kept saying that Putin during The phone call said how much people respect Melania and that everybody loves Melania It's an odd thing for Donald Trump to keep on repeating but but here's what he said here play this clip It and compassionate first lady. I would say she is very dedicated in fact if you look at just what I heard Putin just said they respect your wife a lot I said what about me? No they will they like they like Melania better that wasn't good I don't know if that was good. I'm okay with it. I'm okay. I mean, how weak can you look right there? And then we know from covering Russian state regime media, one of the things they do there

frequently and we know they get their directives from Putin, they show these nudes of Melania kind of frequently and then they mock Donald Trump and they mock Melania. So I think Putin was mocking Melania there. And then finally, last night a reporter asked Donald Trump, you said you believe Putin wants peace, but he just attacked Ukraine yesterday. What makes you think he wants peace? Here, play this clip. You mentioned that you believe Putin wants peace, but he just attacked Ukraine yesterday.

So what makes you think that he wants peace? Well, he's in a war. Nobody said don't, they're fighting, they're attacking, they're attacking each other. And people are dying all the time. He's in a war, he's fighting a war. Nobody said he was going to stop. I think, is it terrible? Yeah, it's terrible. I do. I think it's terrible. Can you wait until President Biden is now that's the complicity with Putin, just fighting the war.

I mean, Putin unlawfully invaded the nation of Ukraine. He's trying to exterminate it. Let's bring in Ned Price. Ned Price is an intelligence and national security professional. He spent more than a decade at the CIA. You served at the White House National Security Council, spokesman for the United States Department of State and deputy to the United States ambassador

to the United Nations. Ned, you have a wealth of knowledge, probably just the same amount as anybody out there in terms of the most knowledge on this type of topic that exists. Just break it down for us what I just shared with you. Yeah, Ben, I think you provided a really good snapshot in time. And I think every time we discuss where we are and where the Trump administration has placed us in the context

of Russia's invasion of Ukraine, it's worth a periodic reminder that President Trump claimed that he would have this conflict resolved on day one. We are now about four months into this administration, that was about 119 days ago. Clearly President Trump has not solved this conflict. So to your point, what has he done? And I think really three things stand out, each of which are in their own way sort of quintessentially Trumpian. Number one, rather than solve this problem, he has actually made the underlying challenge worse. And I say that because if you look at all of the metrics, it is undeniable that Ukraine was in a stronger position, militarily, diplomatically, on January 19th of 2025 than it is today,

in May of 2025, some four years, some four months later. And that is almost entirely because the Trump administration has ripped the rug out from under Ukraine, the potential that the Biden gave to Ukraine to develop this leverage on the battlefield with international unity and international consensus has been almost fully destroyed. Meanwhile, President Trump is almost every day welcoming President Putin back into the international fold, ending the isolation that the United States worked so hard to achieve with dozens of countries around the world as part of our efforts to give Ukraine leverage and to impose necessary costs and consequences on Moscow for this

brutal invasion. Number two, he is now in his very Trumpian way, really falsely claiming a win. He is falsely claiming credit, in this case, not for solving the conflict, because not even in Donald Trump's warped mind is he able to claim that he has solved the conflict. But he is now claiming that the name of the game was just getting the two sides talking,

and that by, because President Putin yesterday on the phone call promised him that he would send a memo to Ukraine with his demands demands that they're now off to the races and peace is going to start blooming in any moment now. Number one, the two sides have long been talking. They've been at low levels, tactical issues, but they've long been talking. So Donald Trump didn't create that. Number two, even if they continue talking, which is a big if, and I say that

because the Russian negotiator who did meet with the Ukrainians last week ended that session by invoking Peter the Great, not to say that Peter the Great created peace, but to say that Peter the Great actually fought Sweden for 21 years to illustrate how long this conflict could go on. So even if they do continue talking, the big if there,

that's certainly no guarantee that this will end with a just and durable peace. And I think chances for that are becoming slimmer by the day. But then number three, what Trump did yesterday that is so Donald Trump of him, it is almost hard to put into words. He's now essentially passing the buck. He is telling the Russians and the Ukrainians,

he actually said in his statement yesterday, only the two of you have the ability to understand how complex these issues are. So over to the two of you. And by the way, the new Pope has mentioned that he's happy to host talks under his auspices. So he's really trying to offload this. You know, Carolyn Levitt, and I don't say this often,

but she actually did something unusual yesterday because she told the truth. She said something like, Donald Trump has grown frustrated and weary of this conflict. It is very clear that he has realized just how intractable this is, not because of Ukraine,

but because Putin is committed to continuing this aggression committed to his maximalist goals and rather than do what would be the natural thing to do and the smart thing to do to increase the pressure on Russia to increase the assistance Ukraine President Trump is trying to wash his hands of it and to turn it over to the parties and to turn it over to the new Pope Turn it over to the new pope just as it over to the new pope, just as kind of a crazy, hey pope, I'm not gonna do the negotiation, you just became the pope.

You wanna become a mediator of Russia's unlovable invasion of Ukraine, I just wanna emphasis supplied right there to what you said at the end, because that's kind of crazy. And to me, I feel like the world sees that this is an unstable, unpredictable, but just downright kind of crazy person. I mean, we now see even people in his cabinet like Treasury Secretary Scott Besant, they have to try to create a framework for it. And I guess using our kind

of initial Russian framing, Besant calls it the crazy Ivan theory of negotiation. He's like, he's crazy. Ivan. That's what we do. It's strategic uncertainty. We're being crazy because that's what is actually helpful. What do you say to the crazy Ivan theory from this administration? Look, the, you know, I've heard this a lot. President Trump's defenders claim that whatever you want to call it, his, his madman approach to the world has really unsettled, uh, the key players and created opportunities where opportunity didn't exist before. Um, to my mind, the madman theory only works

if it is just a theory, and the president isn't actually a madman. In this case, I think the shortcoming may well be that it is not a strategy. President Trump is not playing 3D chess. He is really throwing up the board of checkers and just watching everything fall where it may.

To the extent there is a theory behind President Trump's foreign policy, I don't think we see it in the Crazy Ivan or the Madman theory. I see it more in what we might call the Trump-first approach to the world, obviously a distortion of America first. And I think we see sort of this through line. We're so focused on what Trump says day to day or what he does day to day, but we sort of miss the corrupt forest for the trees too often. But I think if you take a step back, you do see a through line. And as someone who spent years at the CIA, the most jarring starting point for me, or

when it became most crystallized for me, actually happened in the first Trump term. When I read for the first time President Trump's transcript with President Zelensky in that July 2019 infamous phone call where President Trump is alluding to security assistance and then says something like, but I need you to do me a favor though. And we see this pattern play out every single time that President Trump is willing to put his own personal interests, whether they're his political interests, as they were in that case, his reelection bid at the time, or his economic interests, and we can get to that, including with the most recent Gulf trip,

over the national interest, over the interests of the American people, even when the casualty is our national security and foreign policy. And nothing for me crystallized it like that transcript, because it is clear as day, the black and white text, but I need you to do me a favor though, telling that to one of America's closest partners,

a bulwark against Russian aggression, not only against Ukraine itself, but places like Georgia and Moldova, where Russian forces and proxy forces remain stationed, or our allies in the Baltic, with whom we have an Article 5 commitment, one for all and all for one, if they do come under attack.

But not only that, there is an unmistakable signal sent to President Putin, but to dictators, autocrats, and would-be autocrats around the world that it is open season when the leader of the free world has abdicated that mantle, and the titular leader of the free world is concerned only with his own personal interests and not the safety, stability, security of the international security landscape and in turn most importantly the implications for the people of the United States and I think we have seen instances of that even in recent days including when President Trump traveled to the Gulf last week. And that's the one that gets the big headline. So let's go there. But I want to also mention for our audience, when we dig deep into these issues, you see, for example, that the Trump family, which owns this crypto business, they did a deal with Pakistan six days after the terrorist attack

in Kashmir, which has pissed off India. And India is wondering, wait a minute, Trump, yes, you may have met with Modi, but are you doing a deal with Pakistan now on crypto? And is that influencing your posture in trying to now claim that you brokered a ceasefire, which it didn't broker? I think we see it with Vietnam. Now that with the tariffs on China, we see a lot of trade now coming through Vietnam as a way to, I guess, get around the tariffs.

So now Trump, you know, is, you know, whether he said it directly or implicitly, they said, all right, Trump Tower and Ho Chi Minh City, here we go. And then to me, that brings us to the middle, you know, brings us to the Middle East, which is the big headline here. And we saw what the leader of Syria did. Trump Tower, Damascus, see you later sanctions. And then everything on that trip, it seemed like Trump was basking in, you know, this kind of quid pro quo royal culture there.

How dangerous is that to us? What was your overall evaluation of that trip? Yeah, Ben, it's not difficult to understand why it was that President Trump chose these three countries as his first real foreign trip. Of course, he did the same thing when he went to Saudi Arabia first in his first term. But you know, these three countries present in some ways safe and easy options for them. They're literally safe. There aren't going to be protests.

He's not going to be confronted with angry crowds. Instead, he's going to be fetid. Air Force One will be flanked by cuttary F-16s as its landing. There'll be chariots. It will be this royal pageantry. And of course, he loves that. It's easy in terms of the money. And's easy money there and it is in some ways, in many ways easy money for the president, for his family and for his cronies. And I know that you have detailed many of the details, many of the deals that the Trump corporation and those linked to it have engaged in with all three countries. And it is difficult to imagine that President Trump while there didn't again entangle his personal interests,

including his personal economic interests and financial interests with the national interests. You raised Syria. I think that's a really interesting case study just to mention for one brief second. And it's so interesting because the Trump administration, separate and apart from President Trump himself, had been asked about serious sanctions

since the earliest days of the administration. And the State Department, among others, had gone to extraordinary lengths to say, you know, it's something we're looking at, but we provided the interim Syrian authorities, the new government in Damascus, with a series of benchmarks and confidence building measures that they will have to meet in order to have sanctions

relieved and ultimately removed. And they actually listed these six benchmarks publicly. Won't go through them all, but sensible things. Making sure foreign terrorist fighters aren't in government, making sure religious and ethnic minorities are protected, making sure chemical weapons stockpiles are secured, things like that. That was the State Department's line

up until the very day President Trump went out there and said, I'm gonna wave my magic wand and we're all of a sudden ending sanctions on Syria. It was maybe a breath before that, that he said something like, I will do anything for the crown prince. Of course the crown prince was pushing for this, the Qataris were pushing for this, the Emiratis are pushing for this, the Turks were pushing for this, and I think when you look at the influence here we

saw a lot of quid when it comes to how Trump has been feted, how his family has been induced and incentivized with these sweetheart business deals over the course of days, months, and reaching back years by all three of these countries. And this goes back to the quid pro quo. We've seen the quid. And my sense is that by relieving sanctions on Syria, doing exactly what these three countries wanted, Trump has delivered the quote. And let me just make a very quick point. Look, I think so often what we see here

is sort of a broken clock foreign policy. And I say that because, you know, broken clock is famously right twice a day. I don't think it's necessarily the wrong thing to do, to kick the tires on our sanctions regime Because this is a new government these sanctions were designed for the Assad government This is a different time at the different context and there is opportunity here But Trump arrived at that decision almost certainly not by again his own

analysis of the geopolitics and the diplomatic and the the diplomatic and broader moment of the geopolitics and the diplomatic and broader moment, but probably because these three countries asked him after fetting him, after giving him these sweetheart deals, after gifting him, quote unquote, with a $400 million Boeing jet that he still wants to use as Air Force One. So with all of your experience in national security circles, at the State Department, 10 years at the CIA,

I'm sure you had fears following the November election. Has what occurred so far met those expectations and fears, exceeded them? How would you describe them, given that you're in a very unique position, that there's maybe a handful of other people that have your experience in the intelligence community, the diversity of your experience. So it's so important that we all just hear from you generally, like what your thoughts are. Yeah, Ben, look, I think the story we saw

in the first Trump administration that it was malevolence tinged by incompetence. And so often they wanted to do terrible things, things that would have been disastrous for our national interests, for our values, for our standing and our influence in the world. But in the end, they weren't able to, either because Donald Trump

was talked out of it by some of the more reasonable people that especially he had around him early on, or more often than not, they just weren't able to pull it off. They would write some cockamamie EO that would get struck down by the courts, so they weren't able to implement for various reasons. They weren't able to get these ideas through the interagency, through the departments and agencies. In some cases, you even had cabinet secretaries that stood in the way of some of these worst excesses.

The story of the second Trump administration is very different, and we can come to the second administration in a moment, but the preparation they did for day one, January 20th, 2025, is extraordinary, was extraordinary. And of course, this wasn't Trump and his closest advisors, but they outsourced this to professional organizations and people who at least knew what they were doing. They came in with policy ideas, they came in with personnel and they came in with plans for operationalizing it and they have been ruthless in implementing all three and they've done so with some effect. When it comes to this administration, look,

those moderating forces that were around, and I don't want to give those people too much credit, not that there were all that many of them, but in the first Trump administration, but they're not around in the second Trump administration. And even those people with whom Trump doesn't share this sort of mind meld, this MAGA, quote unquote, America first mind meld, have found themselves on the outs. And I think you look at Mike Waltz as national security advisor, someone who probably is better described as more traditional hawkish mainstream Republican, is now out as national security advisor. And yes, he lasted longer than Trump's first national security advisor in his first term, Mike Flynn, but he didn't last all that long in the grand scheme of things.

So they have the people in place, they have the plans in place, they have the know-how in place, in some cases gleaned from those unforced errors of the first Trump term, and they have been, I think, devastatingly effective in dismantling so many of the institutions, the departments and agencies that form the nucleus of our foreign policy and national security, of really eviscerating so many of the programs and the initiatives that make America strong, influential and respected on the world stage. And really, to my mind, done so much, not to make America great

or to make America exceptional or extraordinary, but to make us mundane, to make us more like a country that these autocrats would recognize, a country that is transactional rather than guided by our principles, our interests and our values. And so often those transactions aren't what's good

for America's bottom line, but just as we've been saying, they're what's good for President Trump for his bottom line. Ned Price, thank you so much for joining us. We hope you come back and share more of that knowledge with us. Good luck to you, Ben. Thanks so much. And everybody hit subscribe.

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