The MeidasTouch Podcast - Former National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan on Trump's First 100 Chaotic Days

Episode Date: April 21, 2025

MeidasTouch host Ben Meiselas interviews former President Biden’s former National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan about the failures of the Trump administration’s national security policy during the first 100 days. Visit https://meidasplus.com for more! Remember to subscribe to ALL the MeidasTouch Network Podcasts: MeidasTouch: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/meidastouch-podcast Legal AF: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/legal-af MissTrial: https://meidasnews.com/tag/miss-trial The PoliticsGirl Podcast: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-politicsgirl-podcast The Influence Continuum: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-influence-continuum-with-dr-steven-hassan Mea Culpa with Michael Cohen: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/mea-culpa-with-michael-cohen The Weekend Show: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-weekend-show Burn the Boats: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/burn-the-boats Majority 54: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/majority-54 Political Beatdown: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/political-beatdown On Democracy with FP Wellman: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/on-democracy-with-fpwellman Uncovered: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/maga-uncovered Coalition of the Sane: https://meidasnews.com/tag/coalition-of-the-sane Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What's better than a well-marbled ribeye sizzling on the barbecue? A well-marbled ribeye sizzling on the barbecue that was carefully selected by an Instacart shopper and delivered to your door. A well-marbled ribeye you ordered without even leaving the kiddie pool. Whatever groceries your summer calls for, Instacart has you covered. Download the Instacart app and enjoy $0 delivery fees on your first three orders. Service fees, exclusions, and terms apply. Instacart. Grocer $0 delivery fees on your first three orders. Service fees, exclusions, and terms apply. Instacart, groceries that over-deliver. Discover the magic of Bad MGM Casino, where the excitement is always on deck. Pull up a seat and check out a wide variety of table games

with a live dealer. From roulette to blackjack, watch as a dealer hosts your table game and live chat with them throughout your experience to feel like you're actually at the casino. The excitement doesn't stop there. With over 3,000 games to choose from, including fan favorites like Cash Eruption, UFC Gold Blitz, and more. Make deposits instantly

to jump in on the fun and make same day withdrawals if you win. Download the BetMGM Ontario app today. You don't want to miss out. Visit BetMGM.com for terms and conditions. 19 plus to wager Ontario only. Please gamble responsibly. If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you,

please contact Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. I'm joined by Jake Sullivan, former National Security Advisor to former President Biden. I'm sure you have a lot to say, Jake, about the past 100 days in the Trump administration. The first question I want to just ask you is, how would you rate the first 100 days of the Trump administration from a national security perspective, given, of course, your background. Well, normally, when you look at a first 100 days, you look at policy decisions and you stack them up, some good, some bad. You know, it's a mixed bag. This is an unadulterated disaster. And it's because it's not just about the policy.

It's that President Trump and his team have gone at the core American advantages in the world and systematically tried to dismantle them. Our allies, they've trashed them. Our basic confidence in investing in the United States is the strongest economy in the world. They've cast that into question. Our soft power, the United States is a beacon of light in the world. They've taken that away. The idea, the United States is a beacon of light in the world. They've taken that away. The idea that the United States is the place that attracts the best talent from all over the world for science and innovation.

They've cast doubt on whether if you're an immigrant who wants to come to the United States to study or research, you won't just get thrown in jail. So across all of the major dimensions of the things that have banned America's major advantages, in less than 100 days, President Trump has put them all at risk. And that's not even speaking about Ukraine or China or Gaza or the other issues that we could get into. This is about the core foundations of American power and purpose in the world and President Trump's effort essentially to knock them out. Let's talk about just the breaking news. Pete Hegsiff allegedly having additional communications on private text message apps that are not supposed to be used in that format. He's out there today

saying fake news, apparently sending it to his wife and brother and personal lawyer, his brother and lawyer apparently work at the Department of Defense also. You know, as I think we've also learned that, you know, three of the top ranking people quit there. It just seems like a total mess. I think the former press secretary who worked for Hegseth says it's a total meltdown that's their own words I mean these are the people who work for them what do you make of that all well it's really amazing when someone who describes themselves as your friend as your supporter is someone who actually

came in to work for you leaves and writes within a hundred days of you taking office and op-ed in which he describes, as you said, a total meltdown, utter chaos, and frankly, basically says President Trump should fire you. Now, I'm one who believed, as I think you are, that Secretary Hegseth should never have been nominated and should never have been confirmed in the first place. So all of this, in a way, wasn't just predictable. It was predicted by a lot of people who said that putting a person like this into this role would result in disastrous leadership at the Pentagon. And that's exactly what we've seen across the board. And we've seen other extraordinary statements from his former senior aides basically saying, we were fired for no good reason. We don't get what's going on. And if Secretary Hegseth can't even run his front office, how can he possibly run the entire Pentagon? You know, in your answer to

my first question, you listed a bunch of things. And you started off by talking about the damage being done with our allies. From a national security perspective, when Donald Trump has talked about annexing Canada or taking it over, when he attacks our allies in Europe or Australia or elsewhere, from a national security perspective, what are the additional dangers that may not be that obvious? Obviously, we shouldn't be attacking our allies, but from a security perspective, what are you worried about? You know, I think the easiest way to answer that question is to put yourselves in the shoes of the leaders in Beijing, China's leadership. They've spent years, even decades, trying to drive wedges among and undermine the United States' relationship with its alliances because they recognize it's an asset they don't have. Only the United States of America has this network of strong, capable, democratic allies. And now what President Trump is doing is China's work for it. He is single-handedly taking away this huge asset. And I would say that there are a number of costs to that, but one of the biggest ones

is that for us to compete effectively with China in the future, we need to be flanked by strong allies, capable allies. And going it alone in this trade war and the broader competition with China is a weaker way to approach things than with the strength of having a lot of people standing with us. From your perspective and what you can share, are you seeing things that are worrisome in terms of China reaching out, driving wedges in the TPP, reaching out to Southeast Asian countries? And you see Xi Jinping having those types of meetings, reaching out to Europe to sell vehicles there and reaching out to Australia to build the lines. Are you seeing things like that form that you go, wow, we spent so much time, whether it was with Biden or Obama,

building certain things only for it to crumble in under 100 days? Well, here's a split screen for you. In the summer of 2023, President Biden brought the leaders of Japan and South Korea, who had historically been adversaries, together for a trilateral summit at Camp David, really stitching an alliance for the Indo-Pacific among three great democracies, the U.S., South Korea, and Japan. A few weeks ago, China brought together Japan and South Korea at a very senior level, the foreign minister level, and they issued a joint statement, those three countries. And in it, they said, we're going to work together on issues of trade. And it was anticipating that President Trump wouldn't just have a trade war or trade competition with China, but that he was going to pick fights

with their allies too. So that's a great example, which we see replicated in China's outreach to Europe, China's outreach to Southeast Asia, even China's outreach to Canada and Mexico, that shows you that they see a real opportunity based on the fact that President Trump is casting aside our alliances to make gains at our expense. You know, when I spoke to a former ambassador of Japan, Rahm Emanuel, he said he thought the key moment in Asia was when they saw what went down in the Oval Office with Zelensky. And they said that moment, he said, he thought showed, oh, that was utter weakness. And then everybody, the moment thereafter, they started running military drills that they always do. But, you know, they really picked up the pace thereafter.

We compiled this short clip of what Donald Trump promised about Ukraine and what the reality is. I want to show it to you. Then I want to get your thoughts of how the Trump administration's handled Ukraine. Let's let's play this clip could end the war in Ukraine in 24 hours. Yes, I could. How would you do that? I know Zelensky very well. I'll end that war between those two countries in 24 hours. It won't even take that long. No one's saying it's going to be done in 12 hours, but we want to see how far apart it is

and whether those differences can even be narrowed. So we came here yesterday to sort of begin to talk about more specific outlines of what it might take to end the war to try to figure out very soon. And I'm talking about a matter of days, not a matter of weeks, whether or not this is the war that can be ended. If for some reason one of the two parties makes it very difficult, we're just going to say you're foolish, you're fools, you're horrible people, and we're going to just take a pass. When you watch that, Jake, what goes through your mind, and how do you feel generally about the way this administration's handled Ukraine?

Well, what goes through my mind is that President Trump thought, when he made those ridiculous statements about ending the war in 24 hours that this entire war is Ukraine's fault and it's Ukraine's to end. And that is such a catastrophic misread of the situation. I don't even know where to start. This war is Russia's fault. And it's ultimately President Putin's to end. But instead of putting pressure on Putin, Trump is putting pressure on Zelensky. And I do not believe that that is going to lead to a just and durable peace. The only way we will

get a just and durable peace is if President Trump does something he has not done yet in this term, or at any point, I think, in his adult life. And that is get serious about holding Putin and Russia to account, putting pressure on them, building on the leverage that we handed off to them when we left office. And that's what I'd like to see. Unfortunately, we haven't seen real signs of that from this administration. They find a way to constantly excuse Russia and constantly pressure and squeeze Ukraine. And I think that that has it. I think the technical term is ass backward. Jake, you've had the rare vantage point of actually being in the rooms with these foreign leaders, being involved at the literal highest level of negotiations with them. In my past

career, I did negotiations for endorsement deals and things like that. But even in my negotiations, you would know, you never set arbitrary deadlines against yourself that you can't meet. Because if you can't meet it and you miss it once, and then you show that you're not going to stand by those deadlines, your adversary in the negotiation starts to look at you and go, oh, got it. This is a clown. I'm playing with someone who's just doing this as a game and they're not very serious. At the highest level with geopolitical security implications, this seems to be, it doesn't seem to be, like this is his shtick, 30 days, two weeks, 90 days, I'm going to do all of these deals. And I think even what we're seeing with this most recent 90 day, you know, we're going to do 90 deals in 90 days. Countries are like, okay,

I'm going to show up, I'm going to leave, and I'm going to make him sweat it out because he set these fake deadlines. Just what do you think about that, the way he's even handling these things just from a strategic sense based on how you would handle these types of negotiations and others in the administration you work for well it reminds me of this famous scene in blazing saddles where the sheriff holds a gun to his own head and says you know don't or i'll shoot that is the effective equivalent of what setting these deadlines uh is all about i couldn't agree with you more that setting that deadline, that 90-day deadline on the trade deal, is just upping the ante on the United States, not upping the ante on our trade partners. And similarly, the way that President Trump

has approached the Ukraine negotiations, I think has basically taught Putin that he can continue to play this out. Now, I think we could see Putin also play Trump in a different way, which has come to some kind of agreement around a very short-term ceasefire that gives him a lot of freedom of maneuver to keep squeezing Ukraine. So we'll have to watch what happens in the days ahead. But President Trump has made two cardinal errors, I think, in negotiations. One is what you said, the setting of the arbitrary deadlines. The second is giving away concessions, massive concessions, before the negotiation has even begun, which he did when he sent Secretary Hegseth to Europe to say, we're not going to let Ukraine and NATO, one of Russia's huge asks, and getting nothing in return for that. And there,

too, I think President Trump has shown that his capacity to negotiate effectively with someone like Vladimir Putin simply hasn't borne out. Do you think it's inexperience, the eagerness to get a deal, the fact that they set a fake deadline? So they think, wow, if we give this concession, of course, the other side's going to immediately agree and the other side's like, nope, maybe you should have learned the history about how Putin negotiates. And you'll know if you give an inch, he'll take your life. What do you think it even is about it? Look, I don't think that there's a real logic to this. I don't think that there's some deep

strategy. I think what there is, is every day you have somebody waking up in the morning and thinking that they can command the news cycle with very bold assertions, 24 hours, 90 days, 30 days. That is about projecting strength for the minute, not delivering strength for the long term. And I just think that's a mode of operating that President Trump brings to geopolitics the same way he brings it to regular politics. And in geopolitics, it just doesn't hunt. What do you make of Doge, Elon Musk going in with the wrecking ball to these agencies? I'm sure you know really fine workers who have either lost their jobs, who

are fearful right now. What do you make of everything? Yeah, look, I have kind of two basic reactions. The first is when I heard about an effort at government efficiency, I thought, in principle, that makes sense. I could support that. You don't need to look any further than the Pentagon to see that there are needs for dramatic changes in the way that we procure weapons, that we field our military. And that's something that I was working on in the closing months as National Security Advisor. But the way they've gone about it is first totally arbitrary and capricious. They're just sending young guys who know nothing into various agencies and slashing and burning in ways that they then have to go fix, like firing

the folks responsible for our nuclear program. But the second thing, and it kind of gets to your question, is just the casual cruelty of it all. These are serious, distinguished, dedicated public servants who wake up every day and just try to serve this country. And they serve Democratic and Republican presidents alike. In fact, many of them served in President Trump's administration and did so with distinction. And there's almost a gleeful kind of ethos among Doge to send these people packing, to fire them, and to belittle them on the way out the door. I find this absolutely unacceptable, cruel, and the kind of thing that should shock the conscience of Americans who, yes, want to see more efficiency,

but also want to see decent public servants treated the way they deserve to be treated. While I have you on the program, with your wealth of information about everything that's going on, just do you think that there's something that's not getting enough attention that either worries you, concerns you, that is just on your mind that you think our audience should know about? One thing that does concern me, it's not a today or tomorrow thing, but it's coming soon.

JD Vance went to Paris and gave a speech on artificial intelligence a few weeks into the administration. What he basically said was, we need to let it rip. No guardrails, just let the technology be the technology. And I get the need for us to compete vigorously with China to make sure that we control the commanding heights of artificial intelligence and not our peer competitor. But I am very worried that this administration in its sort of alliance with certain people in the technology industry is not taking seriously the risks associated with artificial intelligence, the potential job loss, the potential security risks, the potential for

just an avalanche of misinformation and disinformation. In fact, on that, they probably like it. And so I think this is an area that is going to become increasingly front of mind for Americans as AI touches their lives. And they deserve a government, an administration that is taking those risks seriously. And I fear that that is not happening right now. Jake Sullivan, former national security advisor in the Biden administration. We appreciate you. We hope you come back. Thanks for having me.

Everybody hit subscribe. Let's get to 5 million subscribers. Can't get enough Midas? Check out the Midas Plus sub stack for ad-free articles, reports, podcasts, daily recaps from Ron Filipkowski and more. Sign up for free now at MidasPlus.com.