The MeidasTouch Podcast - Rahm Emanuel Responds to Trump Policy Disasters

Episode Date: June 12, 2025

MeidasTouch host Ben Meiselas reports on Donald Trump getting outmatched by a furious Asia, with countries like China, Japan, and South Korea sensing his weakness. Meiselas speaks with former U.S. Ambassador to Japan and former Chief of Staff to President Obama, Rahm Emanuel, about his perspective on what’s unfolding in Asia and here in the United States. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Asia as a whole is furious at the United States and kind of mocking the US as well. And I think they're just really pissed at what the United States has become under Donald Trump. Let's just take a look, for example, in Japan, where Prime Minister Ashiba is saying that, look, I know that Donald Trump's saying all these things out here, but we're not going to forgo Japan's interest just to do some quick trade deal that Donald Trump can make social media posts about. He goes, look, if there's progress before I meet, that's good. But what's important is to achieve an agreement that's

beneficial to both Japan and the US. We're not going to compromise Japan's interest just because the US wants to make a quick deal. So you have that going on there. Then you have in China, Donald Trump is claiming that he's now done another deal, but it's not a deal. It's actually a framework regarding a consensus that was reached on May 12th, which was really just the United States caving and moving the tariffs from 145% against China to 35%, but it's really 55%. And then China set a deadline on the United States. Just think about this as part of this consensus. China sets the deadline, a six-month limit on its ease of rare earth export licenses for rare

earth minerals. So, Trump's idea of a good deal is that we were getting rare earth minerals from China. We were having a trade relationship with them before Donald Trump declared a trade war against the world. And now Donald Trump's taxing Americans 55% in the forms of tariffs against China. China's tariffing its own people only 10 percent. And now we have a six-month time limitation on rare earth minerals coming into the U.S. that was coming in before. So it's not a shocker that the U.S. image is declining in many nations,

especially in Asia. If you look at the latest Pew Research poll, for example, in Japan, low to zero confidence of the United States, 61% of the population with Donald Trump leading the US have a low to no confidence of the US. In South Korea, it's even higher, 67% have low to zero confidence. You have op-eds like this in Politico, and I saw one in the Wall Street Journal as well. In Wall Street Journal, it was Trump has no China strategy. In Politico it was Trump's latest trade deal with China underscores key US disadvantage.

Then meanwhile you have Trump's commerce secretary Howard Lutnick going on and bragging about having KFC with the Chinese. Here, play this clip. But I want you to know for lunch, for lunch, we had British pizza and they ordered Kentucky Fried Chicken. Chinese here play this clip. Let's bring in Rahm Emanuel, former ambassador to Japan, former chief of staff to former President Obama.

As the former ambassador to Japan, you must have a lot of thoughts about this. I want to pick your brain on that. Then I want to go talk about the larger trade war, uh, situation that's taken place in your views. You and I spoke about two months ago on this topic, so it's good time for an update. Yeah. So let's do economics Asia and let's do national security Asia because I think there's something important and they, because I can just tell you from my time in Japan those two weave in and out of each other through the process. Three things that have caught my attention, four

things caught my attention on the National Security Front. A couple months ago China did an exercise live ammunition exercise off of Sydney for the first time ever and that close to Sydney to the point that it impacted civil aviation and that was a message sent. Second, just the other day near Japan they came within I think 300 feet in aviation with their jet versus a C-130 that Japan was flying in a way that Japan had not seen and had done certain things around the Senkaku Islands, both countries claim, but also had something that had not been seen before. Also in the South China Sea vis-a-vis the Philippines and the Spratly Islands. China had a much more aggressive posture and Secretary of Defense Hegseth was in Singapore at the Shangri-La

Defense and Security Conference and he gives an entire speech in which he doesn't really mention Korea. Kind of reminds you of Dean Acheson absence of mentioning Korea. And there is some open discussion in that area about America pulling some troops out of Korea. And then lastly the United States is reviewing the agreement we have between Great Britain, Australia, and the United States on some on submarine production. It submarine production it was called it's called AUKUS and you look at all of these events call it in a 60-day period you have a much more aggressive China and a much more retreating unsure

America which is destabilizing the confidence of an Australia, a South Korea, a Japan, or Philippines, or traditional allies, and not just allies, how America projects deterrence in the region. Split-screen, that's on the left side. On the right side of the screen, economics. One word caught me in what the Japanese, who are the largest buyers of American bonds by a foreign government, the largest investor in the United States for consecutive years, of which nearly half of their investments are in manufacturing and in industrial, they said we're not going to do a quick deal.

And the key word, not deal. The key word there is quick. Every foreign government now, Japan and China also know that the president is desperate for quick deal, just a press release, don't care what the substance is. It's an announcement. Just as the president just showed with China and everybody understands now on the quote-unquote tariffs All you have to do is be patient Because the president is impulsive and all he cares about is a press release doesn't really care What's in the press release doesn't care whether America wins or loses just as long as he looks like a winner

And so they have his number and they know how to use his desire for a quick hit to their advantage and our disadvantage. And that's gonna be a problem on a whole host of fronts and there already is and I think you saw this as you said in the tariff discussion with China we kind of we don't really have a trade deal. This idea that there's a deal. We don't have a what has we have a problem economically with China. They always practice economic coercion and they're doing it on critical minerals now against the United States just like they did in 2010 against Japan. Two, they're aggressively involved in intellectual

property theft and stealing of ideas as you saw with Google on around AI about a year ago. They involve themselves with economic espionage and they're aggressive mercantilists using their very little domestic demand, mass manufacturing, underwriting, cheap exports, so they could destroy another country's steel or another country's autos or another country's toy business garment industry, etc. And all that is in place. The President's done nothing. And he because of his impulsiveness and he said it in his own little tweet that this will be decided between Xi and I we're gonna agree to it. He wanted to look like a strong man in his desire to curry favor

with Xi and they're laughing all the way in Beijing. We didn't get we get anything on economic coercion. We're gonna be continue to be a victim of it because China said uh-uh we're not giving you credit on minerals we're gonna be continue to be a victim of it because China said oh we're not giving you critical minerals we're gonna do it every six months magnets to we've had no impact on their intellectual property theft no impact on their mercantilism no impact on their economic espionage and all our allies are watching how China in in my view, cleaned our cloth. And there was a story today, and I'll just stop here, where everybody who's applying to get these now magnets out of China are saying they're asking incredibly detailed reports as you submit your application about who the end user is,

how you're using them, what do you want? And that's another form of economic espionage. And it's all left in place. These guys are the worst negotiators because all they wanted to produce was a press release, not an economic plan. To your point also, because he wants to project being a strong man, while actually also being very weak and damaging to this country here on the domestic front and we've seen over the past week, what many thought was unthinkable. I want to get

your thoughts on it with Trump federalizing the National Guard, calling the Marines as well. By the way, not paying the National Guard, not activating their health care, because once again, he did it in such a mess. We learned that from military.com. They're sleeping on the floor. They're guarding a federal building. The chief of LA or the, yeah, the LAPD chief and the LA Sheriff's Department are saying, we don't even know why they're here or really what they're even doing.

We have to shift our resources basically to watch them now. So you have that taking place. By the way, more troops now in Los Angeles than in Iraq and Syria and probably a lot of other countries abroad. And then you have this dictator parade that Donald Trump is holding for himself this weekend on the 250th anniversary of the army, making it about himself. I know you must have strong thoughts about all of that. Yeah. So let me start on the 250th anniversary of the army making it about himself. I know you must have strong thoughts about all of it. Yeah.

So let me start on the back end. I'm, I think it's very telling and really wrong on so many levels. Here you have the 250 year anniversary of the United States Army, General Washington, General Grant, General Eisenhower, just to name three who became presidents, Omar Bradley, Patton, and I'm leaving many many others out that with but you get the point and rather making it about those individuals and everybody who makes up that 250 year family of service to the country, to the Constitution, and to the ideals of the United States. Donald Trump's decided to make it about the most important person

in his view, Donald Trump. He's literally sabotaged this anniversary where America could remember what the army has served, not only about serving your country but serving its ideals. And I think it's telling on also the anniversary, although it's a different branch of the armed forces with the Marines that he is also breaking precedent by using the armed forces on American soil. And so I think it's that last point is incredibly telling that Donald Trump's ego rather than being selfless as the President of the United States and the Commander-in-Chief holding up the army and what it has done through generation

to generation to generation chapter after chapter of American history in service of something bigger he's made it about himself and to me that tells you the story of Donald Trump but it doesn't tell you the story of America. And that story still has to be told and reminded. Second, I think what's going on, I have like a hundred things about L.A. You know, you're not, I'll the issue or the challenge of immigration on the streets of Los Angeles, Chicago, Spokane, Washington, or Seattle, or New York. We're going to solve it in the halls of Congress.

And the one thing the President has refused to do is engage Congress on how to resolve this. Now, 1988, Ronald Reagan signs immigration. By the time Bill Clinton comes along, also a little Bush 41, but every president since Bill Clinton has tried to figure out, because immigration has changed, how to handle both being true to the fact that America is a nation of laws and America is a nation of immigrants. Those are the guiding principles. Bill Clinton deported criminal immigrants or immigrants with criminal records.

We as somebody as a point person, we had Operation Gatekeeper in San Diego, Operation Safeguard in Nogala's Arizona of how to strengthen the border George Bush had his own manifestations President Obama created DACA for dreamers but he also was protested when he was seen as the deporter-in-chief at public events he was protested so he was tough also about illegal immigrants etc and everybody's trying to figure out how to manage through the fact that we don't have an immigration process around illegal and around legal. And the irony of this to me is as a student of the

politics around immigration reform, as somebody through my mayoral tenure, chief of staff, Congress, and down to President Clinton's senior advisor. Today, Democrats are much closer to Republicans on how to confront illegal immigration and the border than they have been in the last 15 years since Ted Kennedy and John McCain had a bipartisan bill in the Senate and truth be told you can see it because Steve Bannon attacked Elon Musk about this etc there are strong elements and even the president says this we need to update our legal immigration so they the Republicans if you may say have moved closer to where I think there's a consensus on how to modernize

our legal immigration and leadership would be the president calling everybody down say okay here's the principles let's go deal with this and answers what was the president do they were in search of a confrontation They wanted this confrontation in LA. And that's not this an immigration policy for the United States. Both one that honors the fact that we're a nation of laws and we're a nation of immigrants is going to be found in the halls of Congress. Presidents have contorted themselves trying to figure this out and never really getting legislation. Governors are doing it. You can see with Governor Abbot. You can see with Governor Newsom. You can

see it with Governor Pritzker. Cities have contorted themselves with welcoming sanctuary facilities type that. Everybody's trying to work around a broken system. Fix it! Businesses. Today I saw a story. The president said that he wants to deal, take kind of the foot off the gas because businesses are complaining that they can't find immigrants to do the work that they need them for. They have a labor problem. Well that was known before we did this in Los Angeles and you know and I'll just say in Los Angeles, you ever protesting in America history is patriotic. Provocation, violence is not.

You should be arrested and the law will find you and prosecute for that. But a government also has a responsibility and that is to protect speech and not to provoke. The idea that we're calling out Marines and the National Guard in ways that not only unprecedented, the court will decide at least as a National Guard whether still legal is insane when it's not about ruling. Engage Congress and it's about governing something he's never done. This can't be done by executive order. We've talked about the foreign We've talked about the domestic in the present now. Let's talk about where we go What's what's your plan? How do you see we address this? How do you see is? Division for the future

When you say this you mean immigration or in large where America is and etc. In large part where we are today you know both foreign policy domestic and where we go brought more broadly. Well let me just start on a kind of a look in the take away from this, but step back and take a wider lens view. Our politics becomes unstable at exactly around the same moment. The American dream becomes unaffordable. They're interlocked. And when exactly when the public both not only loses confidence

that they can accept have access to the American dream but that the system is rigged all they want is a shot at the American dream they want their children have a shot at the American dream owning a home saving for your retirement your kids education and an ability to afford your health care the system and the public's right about this is rigged. My kids are gonna be fine but that's not how you score this. That's not how we keep score. Whether your kids or my kids are gonna be fine. That's whether the American dream is open to the American people, not open to a segment of

the American people. And it's crazy the ability to get get a home, first time home buyers. You have people that were at the President's inaugural. I would put myself, I was at the inaugural. I have, Amy and I have more than one home, but we have people in America that can't get access and afford a single home. That's crazy. The system's not written like that. I grew up in a home.

My dad was a doctor. My mother was a nurse. When you said a second medical opinion, it was another health care professional. Was it some insurance bureaucrat that tell you you can't have that procedure? You can't have that medication? That you have to go to bankruptcy for that? And people are using their 401k to backstop their paycheck rather than save for their retirement. And this is crazy. So to me, the American dream is unaffordable. It's inaccessible to the American people.

And that's unacceptable to me. And you're going to work like a dog to solve that. And that means if you work for a living, you're going to finally have a government that works for you. That's our pledge. Second, I'm passionate about this, but that education, and I've kind of laid out, you know, you can't, if you, I don't mean to get theoretical or historical,

every great period of American growth is anchored by education. Every period. Making high school universal, you can see the growth in American economy. The GI bill, growth in their economy. I mean land-grant colleges in their Lincoln growth. Every great period of economic expansion in American history is anchored by making education more universal, more acceptable. We have a crisis in this country. We have a 30 year low in reading scores, 30 year low in math scores. COVID was devastating, horrible what was happened and permitted to happen by adults. I've laid out what I

think, what I call art attendance for A. We have what used to be single digits three, four, five percent absentees over a year. Kids are now running 18, 19, and 20 percent. We should have a national standard. If your absence is greater than five percent, you can't go to the next grade. We need to reestablish the standard B in school. Not at all. That's A. R. Reading. Mississippi, there's a thing called the Mississippi miracle. They just went back to the basics. More time on reading. Back to the basics of how to do it. None of this new kind of stuff that got everybody sidetracked. And Mississippi's showing incredible gains in

reading starting in 2010 and among the most difficult communities of poor kids, black males, they're showing incredible growth surpassing national numbers. And then T for truth, which is B, go back to testing and letting parents and schools know how those kids are doing it reading math etc against national standards not educating to the test but having data so you know where you are and what you have to do to improve. Art. Attendance. Reading. Truth. And that to me would recalibrate now

education back to the fundamentals. And then third, I would say overseas, the United States needs to modernize its relationship with its allies and friends you're not going to confront Russia, China, Iran without allies and more important than just allies, allies picking their weight with a clear path to the strategy and the relationship between both security, defense spending, and diplomacy.

And America, I still believe, is an essential country that others want to follow, be partnered with, etc. And then when I think both about my experience in both the Middle East, but also in Asia, you're not going to deter China from California. You're going to deter it because not only our resources in Japan which is the largest military footprint the United States has overseas or Korea or Australia. You're going to deter it because of our forces anchored with other countries forces that want to be a part of it and that has a deterrent level as does the diplomatic efforts we do in the economic coordination and to me that's kind of

how I view it and if we strengthen ourselves at home we will be incredibly strong abroad. That's one of the things, you know, I say from my time in Japan, I learned a lot about Japan, learned a lot about the Indo-Pacific. The thing away from America, I learned a lot about what's special about our country and how many other countries and publics see America as their benchmark and want to be associated with it. And that is an incredible resource to draw. I think that's what makes this time also very challenging when you see America, which used

to be the benchmark being viewed differently. But Ram, I want you to come back. I want to talk about, sure, there's going to be a lot of developments coming up every single day. We love having you on. Thank you so much once again. Oh, thank you everybody hit subscribe Let's get to five million subscribers this week new Midas merch drop check out the latest pro democracy

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