The MeidasTouch Podcast - Russia Attacks Ukraine and Barring Insurrectionists from Office with John Bonifaz

Episode Date: February 25, 2022

On today's episode of The MeidasTouch Podcast, we dig in deep right away about Russia's invasion & declaration of war with Ukraine. We explain the timeline of how we ended up here, how the news media has been reporting on it as well as Putin's motivations from the start. We then switch gears and get into an absolutely riveting interview with John Bonifaz. Yes, that John Bonifaz - the man who is working tirelessly to have Madison Cawthorn disqualified from holding office under Section 3 of the 14th Amendment. John is the Co-Founder and President of Free Speech For People & is a constitutional attorney. The remainder of the episode, the brothers cover the news from the Manhattan DA’s office (and what it may mean), Rick Scott and Senate Republicans releasing an "economic plan" that doesn’t include a single proposal to lower prices for the middle class, while instead raising taxes on half of Americans – including on seniors and working families, Biden's upcoming State Of The Union & much more. If you enjoyed today's episode, please be sure to rate, review & subscribe! As always, thank YOU for listening. Learn more about Free Speech For People here: http://freespeechforpeople.org DEALS FROM OUR SPONSORS: ATHLETIC GREENS: https://athleticgreens.com/meidas BETTER HELP: https://betterhelp.com/meidas THESIS: https://takethesis.com/meidas Listen to Hell & High Water podcast with John Heilemann: https://therecount.com/podcasts/hell-and-high-water Remember to subscribe to ALL the Meidas Media Podcasts: MeidasTouch: https://pod.link/1510240831 Legal AF: https://pod.link/1580828595 The PoliticsGirl Podcast: https://pod.link/1595408601 The Influence Continuum: https://pod.link/1603773245 Kremlin File: https://pod.link/1575837599 Mea Culpa with Michael Cohen: https://pod.link/1530639447 Zoomed In: https://pod.link/1580828633 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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under austerity measures. Its entire GDP is like half the size of California's GDP. Yet the GQP treats Russia like it is this incredible economy that they're doing great, that Putin is all knowing. We see a very different message in the streets today of Russia as people are protesting Putin's measures in Russia, people around the world, as Russia has launched a full scale invasion against Ukraine. And I will say there are some Republicans now who claim to be espousing strong support for Ukraine and strong statements against Russia, but that's few and far between. And at the same time they do that, these psych psycho fans like Ted Cruz are seen being photographed with traitorous candidates espousing pro-insurrection views pro-GQP, sitting next to Ted Cruz in his six-inch high heels that he's wearing. Zoom in on the high heels there for our people watching it with the Donald Trump portrait behind

his back. It's not even spineless because it would be spineless if you allowed Trump to talk shit about your wife, to talk shit about your dad, to say your dad's a murderer, to say you're a murderer, to talk all this crap about your wife and then still support him. But the obsequiousness, the embarrassingness of at this moment in history, sitting before a Donald Trump mural that doesn't even look like Donald Trump is the most embarrassing thing in the world. But we have a serious situation in Ukraine. I want to tell you that one of the guests we're going to have on the podcast today, which is related, I think, to what's going on there. We have John Bonifaz, who's the co-founder and president of Free speech for the people, holding insurrectionists accountable here in the United States. We need to do that because we see the threat to democracy abroad. We need to bring actions against insurrectionists. And that's specifically why we have the 14th Amendment,

Section 3. Bonifaz's group, Free Speech for for the People is currently bringing actions against insurrectionist politicians like Madison Cawthorne to preclude them from holding office in our democracy. Brett, tell us about what is going on in Ukraine right now. And we all woke up to a very, very different world, a world that our intelligence community, Biden, has warned us about, that Republicans claimed were false flags and not being serious and all of that. But tell us what's going on. Yeah, it's been a difficult day for us, for you as listeners, just spectating, just watching what's happening right now in Europe. But imagine what it's like right now for the people of Ukraine who are just desperately trying to escape, hiding underground, using subways as bomb shelters, trying to get as

much food as possible, trying to be as safe as possible. I mean, it's truly devastating. And I've just been walking around all day with a sense of dread. And Ben, before I go ahead and bring people up to speed on the latest updates, I think what you were saying about Ted Cruz being with Herschel Walker under that portrait of Trump and Ted Cruz meeting with Trump and posting a picture with Trump, he's one of the guys who you may have been referring to when you said that Republicans started coming out and expressing support of Ukraine.

But to me, Ben, it rings very hollow when an hour before your statement comes out, you post a picture with Donald Trump, who is actively rooting for Putin, actively rooting for Russia, calling Russia genius, calling Putin savvy. It totally negates your whole message. And I'm sorry if you do that, then I'm going to call bullshit on your support of Ukraine. Let's say it's spread to Putin's direct allies geopolitically aren't even going as far as to say what he did was genius. I mean, China came out with a statement that was not helpful, that was very destabilizing by not saying it was an invasion, but even China, who would be a natural ally to Russia in this moment, is not coming out and saying Putin is a genius. I mean, Trump is, it's almost laughable propaganda if the Russian, if RT, if Russian television did that, like RT isn't even going as far. So RT is playing the Trump statements and the

Tucker Carlson statements because even in Russia, they don't have clowns clownish enough to say the shit that Trump's saying. Yeah, no, it's horrifying. But let me give you a recap as to what's been going on, at least at the time of our recording. Obviously, this is an incredibly fluid situation. There are literally updates happening every single minute, but here's what we know. Russia launched a full-scale invasion against Ukraine. It was late last night in the United States, but early this morning in Ukraine, he had announced what he called, and this is his propaganda language of how he's referring to it, not as an invasion, but as expanded military operations. But let's be clear, this as an invasion, but as expanded military operations.

But let's be clear, this is an invasion. This was an unprovoked attack on the people of Ukraine. His speech, I don't know if you saw his speech, and we will not be playing speech here, but it was that of like a weak, sick, demented sociopath. And experts actually said that the metadata tied to that video of his speech showed that the video was actually recorded days ago. So while Russia, while Moscow were doing this posture of will we, won't we, it's clear that Putin had already decided days in advance that this invasion was going to happen. As of today, they've been bombarding cities, towns, and villages as they advance towards the capital of Kiev. They've also launched some wild digital attacks.

This is a new thing of war. Now, this is something that's different than wars of old, is that there are these large-scale digital attacks on digital infrastructure in Ukraine and around the world. A senior defense official today said Russia is continuously making a move towards Kyiv, the capital of Ukraine, and their plan ultimately is to decapitate the government and install their own. Sirens were blaring in Ukraine with citizens using subways as bomb shelters and rushing to evacuate. I heard some interviews this morning with some of the Ukrainians in the bomb shelters on CNN, and my heart just broke. And I was just so impressed by the strength of these people. I mean, they didn't even imagine that this was going to happen. And here they are underground in a subway,

just not even knowing where the day is going to take them, if they're going to even be living to see another day, or if when they get up, if their city's even going to still be around. Ukrainian President Zelensky quickly broke off diplomatic ties with Moscow, and he announced this morning the first casualties of Russia's invasion. Ukraine's been fighting back, but they've also suffered losses on their own. I know I saw they had destroyed at least five Russian aircrafts, two Russian helicopters and five tanks. And one of the things that they're doing in their state of emergency that they declared is they're basically offering weapons to any Ukrainian citizen and not even if you're in the military, any Ukrainian citizen, if you want to fight and defend your country, you could basically go and help protect the country,

which I think is a real crazy wild move. And it shows the severity of the situation. I read earlier that one Russian platoon had actually surrendered to Ukrainian forces. There was a point today where it looked like Russia had seized Hostomel airport near Kiev, a very strategic location. Then Ukrainian troops were able to fight back, get full control of the airport, and eliminated the Russian airborne force. And Russia recently, reportedly, has captured the Chernobyl nuclear plant, which is, of course, the site of the worst nuclear disaster in history. That is a really, really, really horrifying update.

President Biden and our allies are planning severe sanctions against Russia in an attempt to decimate the Russian economy. They basically want to take the same approach to what crippled the Soviet Union to right now in Russia. Foreign policy experts at this point are calling for the world basically to just cut off complete ties with Russia, basically turn Russia into North Korea, cut off Russia's ties to the global financial system, seize all the Russian oligarchs' bank accounts, their yachts, their real estate, their visas, and they want to halt swift transactions. Swift transactions are like a interglobal monetary financial transfer system that Russia has access to, and they want to cut that off. Although the EU seems to have been a little wary about taking that step, but people like Adam Schiff in the US have been pushing

that same plan to cut Russia off swift. And by the way, before we move on, what Schiff said, I wholeheartedly agree with. I don't know where you two brothers stand on this position, but my take is exactly that. We have to cut all these oligarchs off at the knees. It all comes from their dirty money. And without that, they're incapable of moving forward. So we have to send a clear message. We, our allies, have to send a clear message that we're not going to let Russia just take Ukraine, then just go on and take something else that doesn't belong to them. We have to stand up to them. They're the bully. They're the aggressor, but we have to be the ones to put an end to it. People who say sanctions don't work don't understand sanctions. They don't understand

the purpose behind the sanctions. Already, since Biden has announced the new round of sanctions, the Russian stock market has plunged to one of its lowest points in history. Now down 30% is the Russian stock market. The Russian ruble has crashed to one of its lowest points in history, now down 30% is the Russian stock market. The Russian ruble has crashed to one of its lowest levels in history, actually an all-time low for the Russian ruble. And that is also why you see the groundswell of protests against Putin, because people in Russia want to live in peace. People in Russia were already suffering from austerity measures there. Think about the bravery of a Russian protester protesting this war in Russia. I think that's an important point to make,

Jordy, is that this is not a fight with the Russian people. And what we're seeing today is much of the Russian population is against war and doesn't want this to people. And what we're seeing today is much of the Russian population is against war and doesn't want this to happen. And remember, they're also victims of a very sophisticated propaganda campaign in which Russia is treating America like the aggressor and Russia is treating Ukraine as the aggressor when that couldn't be further from the truth. And seeing those images today, first of protesters in Ukraine and then protesters across Russia, I mean, that is real courage. That is real bravery. Bravery is not getting in your truck with your 50 Trump flags and flying around because you're

pissed off that you had to wear a mask for the last few months. But Brett, just before you go to the next point, though, you made a great point there, when you were saying there was another people starting one of their fake caravans. And you were like, what are you even protesting at this point? Like, I should like there's no like mandates anymore. Like, what are you protesting? And the thing is, they're not protesting there. It's another form of an insurrection.

They're mad that they lost an election. And that's it. They're pissed off. They want to try to overthrow the government. That's what the guy who was leading the Canadian convoy admitted. And that's what these people want to do as well. But those people are cowards. The real bravery is what we're seeing right now in Russia and Ukraine with the citizens rising up, standing against war and standing up against Russian aggression because they are risking

their freedom and they are risking their lives by doing so. That is bravery and that is courage. And let's be clear also about what we've seen over the past few weeks. It's that President Biden and the US intelligence community were right about everything, every step of the way. And the right wing media tried to act like this was a lie. They tried to claim that the media was trying to provoke a war, that Biden was being hysterical. Russian state media, which is indistinguishable from Fox News at this point, said that there would be no invasion. But guess what? President Biden and US intelligence were 100% spot on. And we need to acknowledge that. And you would think that those people would be like,

oh, I guess we were wrong. I guess we got egg on our face. But no, they double down. They start blaming Biden. They move on to the next thing. They move the goalposts every single time. You know who's been wrong every single step of the way? The Republican Party, Donald Trump, Fox News, who has taken the side of Russia, who has taken the side of Vladimir Putin. And just moments before the bombing began last night, Donald Trump made his not his first, but his second statement in support of Putin of the week. After earlier calling him savvy and a genius, yesterday he had an event at Mar-a-Lago where he stated, Putin is smart. He's taken over a country for $2 worth of sanctions. I think that's pretty smart.

And the thing that horrified me the most about this was not even Trump's statements, which are disgusting, inaccurate and just shameful and traitorous. But the reaction from the crowd were after he finished his sentence, they erupted in applause in Mar-a-Lago. I would argue this, that Fox News is even more pro-Putin than Russian TV. It's because Russian TV has to use the Fox News clips because even their own newscasters can say some of these things with a straight face. That's a good point. Yeah, you're right. That's why they're using the Fox News clips. And Brett, as we said earlier in the show, you can't have it both ways. You can't be sitting in Mar-a-Lago or wherever the hell Ted Cruz was with Herschel Walker, espousing pro-insurrectionist ideology, praising Donald Trump, who's praising Putin, and then claim that you're somehow supporting the Ukrainian people. You, if that is your view in

the Republican Party, you are a traitor. You are directly undermining our national security. You are pathetic at the end of the day. I want to debunk just one other thing that is a Putin lie, that Putin is doing this because Ukraine wants to join NATO. Let me explain just very quickly why that doesn't make sense at all. If Russia takes over Ukraine, they will be surrounded by three NATO nations. So clearly that doesn't make any sense whatsoever. The reason that Ukraine wants to be a part of NATO in the first place is one, that it's a democracy, and two, that Russia has troops on its border and wants to invade. Ukraine wants to avail itself of Article 5 of NATO, which would have a joint defense treaty because they feared that Russia was going to invade them.

Article 4 in the NATO treaty basically calls for different countries to come together and assess ways to deal with potential invasions, whereas Article 5 is actually the joint defense obligation. Article 4 has been invoked, not Article 5 as of yet. And Article 4 has been invoked by NATO nations regarding potential cyber attacks, regarding potential responses to Russia and other areas. And also, Brett, didn't Trump also spread disinfo that and people like, oh, well, Biden misspoke because Biden said like, or or like, how dare Biden, who actually has a stuttering issue, stuttered like Donald Trump said in the interviews that American troops launched an amphibious attack against Russia and Ukraine. Like that's not a slip of the tongue. That is like,

and even Laura Ingraham had to correct him. Even Laura Ingraham was like, no, that's not what happened. That was his full on understanding of the situation. And it's dangerous. It's not just words. It's dangerous.

He was the president of the United States. And this is a very tense situation. And if you're saying that he could literally be, literally be provoking more actions of war, He could get people killed with his comments. And just watching that whole Fox News block, watching all the things happen, were just disgusting. Everything was more disgusting than the next. Laura Ingraham might have corrected him on that. But Laura Ingraham literally, as Ukraine was being bombarded, called the Ukrainian president's plea for peace pathetic. She said it was a pathetic display. That's all Laura Ingraham had to say about our ally. Tucker Carlson falsely claimed Ukraine isn't a democracy. It's a state department client state is the term he used. And he started saying, you got to think, why do we actually dislike Putin? Has Putin ever done anything to you? Has Putin ever called you a racist? Has Putin ever called you a racist? Has Putin

ever got you fired from your job? I mean, this is the most ridiculous pro-Putin propaganda we have ever seen. And Ben, like you said, Russian state TV, they didn't even have to edit these clips. They put them straight on their network and just put subtitles on them and said, here are the Americans who support our action. And this is why we're right, and this is why we are engaging in this military action. And remember, when Trump was president, it was about 90% of the disinfo that was out there on the internet began with Trump and his inner circle. There were studies on that. He is a danger to national security, and he is Putin's puppet at the end of the day. This podcast is brought to you by BetterHelp.

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just right about there. What ended up happening was I made a, I made a silly TikTok ultimately. And the TikTok was of, of Madison on Tucker. And they were talking about this upcoming court case, which our guest is actually leading the charge on that will prevent Madison from rerunning in his district, essentially barring him from running for Congress. And Madison in the clip said that he was getting worried. And so, you know, I'm just doing my natural pointing and laughing when Madison says he's worried, a little bit of a cry more emoji or something. And I post it, you know, just post it. 15 minutes later, I get a notification.

Madison Cawthorn has quote tweeted your tweet. And he said something to the effect of like, oh, yeah, I'm really shaking in my boots with you giggling and pointing at the ceiling, which was, you know, just kind of a lame, a lame dig back, like no creativity. And then I hit him over the top with actually something that's a little bit mean. But again, if you're going to enter the arena, you're going to get hit. What I said was, tell me that story about the casino in Russia where you claim you met your ex-wife again. I can make a TikTok about that one also. So that was then my rebuttal to his little rebuke back to me. Jordy with the deep dig. It was really deep. Jordy with the deep dig. But let's bring in the person who's

arguably had a deeper dig than Jordy, the individual bringing proceedings against Madison Cawthorn under the 14th Amendment, Section 3, a rarely used clause, not since the Confederacy, regarding banning insurrectionists and those who rebel against the United States from holding public office. But John Bonifaz filed these proceedings before the elections board in North Carolina, which has Madison Cawthorn freaking out. I mean, I've seen this guy on interviews, Madison, and he's filed this case in the federal court. Cawthorn argues that the amnesty given to Confederates after the Civil War applies to him. So his argument is not that I'm not an insurrectionist. I deserve the amnesty that you gave the Confederacy. So I just want to get into that. But without further ado, let's bring in John Bonifaz, a constitutional attorney and the co-founder and president

of Free Speech for People, a nonpartisan organization with the goal of defending our constitution, our elections, and confronting big money and corruption in politics. How about that? A organization focused for the people, for people. That's really good. Let's bring in John Banifaz. John, welcome to the Midas Touch podcast. Thank you so much for having me. Great to be with you all. So, John, we're all focused right now domestically on the insurrection, obviously abroad where we're also focused on what's going on in Ukraine, in Russia. But we've been speaking about on the pod, the insurrection. Are there going to be

ramifications for it for those who aid and abet it? We've heard about the 14th Amendment, Section 3, which would otherwise disqualify individuals from holding public office who participate in insurrections and rebellions against the country. But maybe you tell us about Section 3 of the 14th Amendment and the proceeding that your organization has spearheaded in North Carolina. Yes. So the 14th Amendment, as we know, was one of those Reconstruction-era amendments enacted after the Civil War. And Section 3 of the 14th Amendment was specifically designed to address Confederates who either sought to remain in positions of government power or were seeking to be elevated positions of government power after the Civil War. And the framers of that

provision of the 14th Amendment were quite clear that if you have taken an oath of office to defend the Constitution, and then you turn around and engage in insurrection, you are forever prohibited from holding public office again. It's important to note that there was a debate among the framers as to whether to apply it solely to the Civil War or whether to have it be prospective to apply to any future potential insurrection in the United States. And the decision was made to have it be applied more broadly, that it would not only protect the republic at that time from Confederates trying to stay in positions of government power, but that it would also protect the republic at that time from Confederates trying to stay in positions of government power,

but that it would also protect the republic going forward. And so now we have, of course, the second insurrection in our nation's history on January 6, 2021. And the application of this provision, this critical constitutional provision to defend our republic remains very much alive. And that is why we have launched this campaign, 14.3, spelled out P-O-I-N-T, 14.3.org, with our revolution to make clear that election officials all across the country have a mandate and a responsibility to enforce Section 3 of the 14th Amendment with respect to any candidates who may seek to appear on their state ballots who first took an oath to defend the Constitution and then turned around and engaged in the January 6th insurrection or gave aid or comfort to it.

And so we heard about the 14th Amendment, Section 3, this provision that, for good reason, we hadn't really heard about because there really hadn't been any Amendment, Section 3, be used by members of Congress in a proceeding and in a resolution that they would pass? Would they have to go to federal court? Is this self-enforcing? Does someone have to go? How the amendment actually and practically is utilized and in what proceeding and forum has become an open question. And with your organization, one of the things that you've done and you've spearheaded is making this not a kind of philosophical discussion, but saying that this is a real amendment. And so you've taken on Madison Cawthorn, who was there at the insurrection, cheering on the insurrection, has said insurrectionist things supporting the insurrection since the insurrection. Literally, I think everything he

says seems to be anti-American. But your organization has spearheaded something in the board of elections with Madison Cawthorn, challenging his qualifications under North Carolina law. Can you tell us about that proceeding and why did you start there with Madison Cawthorn? Yes. So there are two ways in which state election officials can follow the mandate of Section 3 of the 14th Amendment. One is on their own scrutiny and review of candidates seeking to appear on the ballot. But in a number of states, voters themselves have the ability to bring a challenge to the eligibility of a candidate for not being qualified under the U.S. Constitution or even under state constitutions to appear on their ballot. And so we have initiated the first such challenge since the Reconstruction era in

North Carolina against the eligibility of Madison Cawthorn to appear on the 2022 primary ballot. It's a filing that voters in his district where he was claiming to seek re-election, he may now move to a different district and it will be refiled if he does by voters in that district. But these voters are constituents of the district he seeks to represent and they have filed a challenge. We serve as co-lead counsel on behalf of a broad legal team in North Carolina representing them, challenging before the state board of elections, the eligibility of Madison Cawthorn to appear on the ballot because he engaged in insurrection or gave aitor comfort to it after having taken an oath of office on January 3rd, 2021, to defend the

Constitution. John, what does that proceeding look like in the Board of Elections? Is it actually an adversarial proceeding like a court proceeding where both sides present evidence? Is he going to have to kind of defend his inspiring the insurrection? Like what actually takes place there? And then after you answer that, maybe tell us about his response since you filed this lawsuit. Yes. So the first process is a process with election officials in the district where he seeks to represent. They get empaneled by the State Board of Elections. So it's a group of election officials that will be appointed to first hear this challenge. And then after that, the State Board of Elections can review it with an

appeal to that body. And then after that, it can be appealed into the courts in North Carolina, the North Carolina Court of Appeals and the North Carolina Supreme Court. The candidate being challenged needs to show up because the standard for voters to bring this challenge, to get in the door, is that they need to have reasonable suspicion that the candidate is not eligible. We have put forward far more than reasonable suspicion. We put forward a 30-page complaint for the voters we represent demonstrating how Madison Cawthorn is disqualified under Section 3 of the 14th Amendment. And based on that filing alone, if he chooses not to show up and not to defend himself, then we believe the elections board needs to disqualify him. But at this time, what Madison Cawthorn has done is he has tried to stop it altogether from moving forward

by going into federal court and arguing that the entire statute that allows for these voter challenges, which has been in place for years in North Carolina, voters have brought other challenges to age qualifications, to residency qualifications. He wants to strike down the entire statute as unconstitutional on First Amendment and due process grounds. And he's also argued, alternatively, that only Congress has the power to decide whether or not a congressional candidate can serve in Congress, that in fact, a 14-year-old, based on his reasoning, could appear on the state ballot to run for Congress, or even a foreign national like Vladimir Putin could appear on the ballot in North Carolina to run for Congress,

and the state would have no role whatsoever. Only Congress can decide that question. That's one of his arguments. The last argument he makes is even more specious. It's the argument that the 1872 Confederate Amnesty Act, which provided amnesty after several years of enforcing Section 3 of the 14th Amendment after the Civil War, provided amnesty to Confederates, that that now provides him amnesty and that it covers him. And therefore, the proceeding should not move forward on that basis as well. I just want our listeners and viewers to fully digest what it is that you just said,

because Madison Cawthorn's response to your filing was not, I'm not an insurrectionist, this should be dismissed. His response was, I deserve amnesty under the law used to give amnesty to Confederates. And this whole entire idea that insurrectionists should not be allowed to serve in Congress, that's an unconstitutional premise. That was his first line of attack, not to deny. Basically, the Constitution is unconstitutional is what I got from his statement. Right. Exactly. That's exactly right. That's exactly what he said. He has the ability to appear before the State Board of Elections and try to demonstrate how he didn't engage in the January 6th insurrection, how he didn't give aid or comfort to it. But that's not his first action. His first action was to rush to federal court to try to stop this entire

proceeding from going forward. It's just so crazy. And so now the way the North Carolina law works is the burden is now on Cawthorn, right, to give his evidence and make his proof. The ball's in his court, basically. Assuming he doesn't get the kind of relief he's seeking out of the federal court. So the federal judge has a scheduled hearing for Monday morning, February 28th, to hear his arguments. His attorney, James Bopp, who's well known in conservative circles, has filed a motion for preliminary injunction along with the complaint. And that emergency hearing is happening on Monday. So assuming there is no blocking of this proceeding by the federal courts, then yes, he will have to show up and demonstrate why he's not disqualified under Section 3 of the 14th Amendment. I want to talk about the hearing on Monday, but I also want to talk about what

happened on Wednesday when the North Carolina Attorney General had struck down Cawthorn's challenge to the suit and said that Section 3 of the 14th Amendment, in fact, can apply to Madison Cawthorn. What was your reaction to that decision? How big of a deal was that? It's a huge deal. Thank you for highlighting it. So what they did is they filed papers in the federal court proceeding on behalf of the state, right, because Cawthorn sued the State Board of Elections, the North Carolina Attorney General's Office is defending the State Board of Elections. And in their papers, they make clear that Section 3 of the 14th Amendment is a qualification that the State Board of Elections has responsibility to

review. So this is a significant development. And it gets back to the opening point that Ben made, which is really that, you know, up until this proceeding, it's been a theoretical discussion. What is the application of Section 3 of the 14th Amendment? It's no longer theoretical because the state of North Carolina has now on paper in federal court made clear that Section 3 of the 14th Amendment is, in fact, a qualification that the State Board of Elections has a duty to determine and review for candidates, and that that is a responsibility they have, just like any other qualification under the Constitution. And that, I think, is something state election officials around the country should recognize as well. correct? Yes. And it's to hear Cawthorn's case seeking to block the North Carolina State Board

of Elections from reviewing whether he is disqualified under Section 3 of the 14th Amendment. What should our listeners expect on Monday? Well, that hearing is going to be in person, so there's no opportunity to listen in via audio or anything like that. But that hearing in a Wilmington, North Carolina federal courtroom is going to air out all these arguments that are being made by Cawthorn and the counter arguments to them. And then the judge may rule that day, or he may take it under advisement and rule later in the week or beyond that. And that will determine, at least in the first instance, whether the state board of elections may proceed. If he rules against Cawthorn, I think we can expect Cawthorn will rush to the

Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals to try to get his injunction issued there. If he loses before the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals, I think we can even expect that he may try to go to the U.S. Supreme Court to try to get the whole thing stopped. If he loses all those hurdles, then the State Board of Elections can proceed. Then if he prevails, I should say, on Monday before this federal judge, the other side, the state of North Carolina, will likely appeal that right away. So we'll see what happens out of the federal courtroom in North Carolina. But I think at the end of the day, Madison Cawthorn needs to be held accountable for his role in the January 6th insurrection. And the whole idea here that the framers had with the 14th Amendment was to ensure that people who want to threaten our republic, first having taken an oath of office to defend our Constitution and then turn around and engage in insurrection, they do not have any place in public office again. Shouldn't be a controversial take, in my opinion, that if you launch an insurrection against the United States of America, that maybe you shouldn't be allowed to hold public office.

Just doesn't doesn't seem like a controversial take to me. And I know you agree with me, John. I think one of the things that's been interesting is when I first heard about this case, I was like, oh, come on. Like this sounds like some sort of fever dream. There's no way that this is going to be a real thing. But in recent weeks, it's really picked up. And now it seems like this is a legitimate thing. And I think you could tell the most because Madison Cawthorn seems scared of it now. Did you see him on Tucker the other night where he said, yeah, they're actually very close to getting me off the ballot? Yeah. And he should be concerned because he did have a role in the insurrection. And if you apply Section 3 of the 14th Amendment fairly, he's disqualified. But others should be concerned, too. There are other members of Congress who also are in his

category, who engaged with the planners of the pre-attack rally, who spoke at it, or who otherwise helped facilitate the insurrection. And obviously, Donald Trump should be concerned, because he's the insider in chief, and he needs to be held accountable. And he has no place on any state ballot if Section 3 of the 14th Amendment is applied fairly. So I guess the obvious question would be then why is Madison Cawthorne the only person right now who's facing legal action and who actually feels like they might get barred from running? Why isn't this happening all over the country at this point?

Well, so that's a great point. So first of all, it is in a sense that there's already efforts in a number of states to press election officials to apply Section 3 of the 14th Amendment to candidates in their states. So in Pennsylvania, in Ohio, in Maryland, our revolution, our partner, has already initiated a number of actions to press election officials to to apply Section three of the 14th Amendment. There will be, as we have said publicly, other legal challenges we bring. We're not ready to reveal which of those other candidates seeking public office will be challenged. But that will happen. And twice if it's Marjorie Taylor Greene.

I'll try it again. Blink twice if it's Lauren Boebert. But I do, you know, I do think that this has to be applied all across the country. And the fact is, is that it's not just federal candidates. It's not only Donald Trump and members of Congress. Section 3 of the 14th Amendment applies for any public office. So if you're running for governor or if you're running for a state Senate seat or a dog catcher seat and you participate in the direction after having first taken an oath of office to defend the Constitution, you're disqualified from appearing on a future state ballot. And John, I got to say, I didn't know this going into this week, but it turns out Madison Cawthorn, huge fan of Midas Touch. Let me tell you why. I posted a video and it was his video of him on Tucker, TikTok, you know, I was laughing

and sort of pointing like, yeah. Oh, it was great. Oh, thank you. Thank you. So did you see though that he responded and he responded, and this is within 15 minutes of me posting. That's how I know he's watching us closely. So I'm, Hey, Madison. This wasn't even from the Midas Touch account. This was from the Jordy account. Yeah. He goes, yeah. Giggling and pointing repeatedly and wearing a hat has me shook. Well, Madison, since I know you watch us and since I know you follow all of our steps, if that video didn't have you shook, which I'm pretty sure it did because you said so,

I know John and his team damn well has you shook, my friend. So I cannot wait to see what brings this next court hearing, John. Well, thank you, Jordy. Thank you for posting that great TikTok video. I did see it. And I will say that part of, I think, what's driving the interest in this challenge and the support we've heard from people all around the country is they want accountability for the insurrectionists. And we know the House Select Committee is doing important work on investigating the insurrection. But at the end of the day, they don't have prosecutorial power. They're going to be able to air this out fully with hearings that they plan on holding.

They're going to be able to produce a report on it and make referrals to the Justice Department. But so far, there's been no indication that the high level insurrectionists, Donald Trump and his associates, are being held accountable via the Justice Department. And this other avenue that exists under Section 3 of the 14th Amendment is so critical for people all across the country to get involved at 14.3.org and help lift up this critical provision of the Constitution and urge that their chief election officials follow the mandate and keep off the ballot insurrections who don't belong there. John, and obviously we've spent a lot of time in the earlier segments of this podcast talking about Russia's invasion of Ukraine. And frankly, I don't think that this interview

is completely unrelated to those discussions because Because for many years, we had political party politicians taking the side of Russia. And we see that when that party lost its power in legitimate elections, they stooped to insurrection. Our founders were very, very smart. They foresaw these things were going to happen. That's why we have these amendments in the Constitution that deal very specifically with these issues. And so I applaud you for taking this action in the absence of many other people and many other groups that have the power but haven't stepped forward. And I think it's a good benchmark also

that other groups should step forward and follow your lead. Thank you, Ben. Thank you for that. And yes, absolutely. We think there's a critical moment right now in our history, a defining moment, really, of whether we're going to be able to preserve and defend our Constitution, our democracy, or whether we're going to so threaten the Republic, who after taking that oath, engage in insurrection to stay in government power or appear on the ballot for future public positions. And that's exactly why we brought this action. Well, John Bonifaz, thank you so much for

joining us on the Midas Touch podcast. We hope you'll come back and please keep us posted on the updates regarding all the proceedings that Free Speech for People is involved in. Thank you all. Thank you all so much for all you do. It's a very interesting case and it has teeth. When I first heard about the proceeding, I didn't really know what to expect. I didn't know if it was gimmicky. I'm not going to lie. Like I said to him, I thought it was 100% a gimmicky. I'm not going to lie. Like I said to him, I thought it was 100% a gimmick. I thought this has zero chance or whatever. But then I started seeing a lot of really respected legal minds saying, wait a second, this actually has teeth.

And as I've been following it, I think it's actually incredibly interesting. I'm just very curious to see where it leads and was really excited to get John's perspective. You didn't do it. You didn't do it because you couched it, you know, before you really read into everything you count, you did a good job couching it. But again, you always do an excellent job at, at just slightly, uh, insulting our guests just ever so slightly, but you gotta keep it, you gotta keep it real with people, you know, I'm not going to be fake to round us out. Yeah. I am fully convinced, um, that this lawsuit does not just have teeth. It's got a whole ass smile. I like it.

But, you know, speaking of things that should have teeth, which you guys like, you just made that up on the spot. Sounding kind of cool, right? I like that. But thinking of things that do have teeth, that do have, you know, not only teeth, but like the most perfect veneers, but that is being totally apparently butchered is the Manhattan D.A DA's prosecution of Donald Trump. We did a spaces featuring Karen Agnifilo, who Karen Agnifilo, who was on the Midas touch spaces,

just for everybody to know she was Cy Vance's number two. Cy Vance had done an incredible job. I know people were hating on Cy Vance because it was taking a long time, but these things take time. Cy Vance brought in some incredible prosecutors, Mark Pomerantz, Carrie Dunn, were widely noted as the top prosecutors, not just in the state, but in the country. And they were digging through it. It was very methodical. Cy Vance had to extend the grand jury's time allotment, but things were moving in the right direction. There was an election that was held. Alvin Bragg became the Manhattan district attorney. Cy Vance was no longer running for office. So Alan Bragg won. seems there's a lot of issues right now within this

district attorney's office. It's, you know, out of nowhere, we learned yesterday that Carrie Dunn and Mark Pomerantz, the key prosecutors have submitted their resignation after Manhattan DA Alvin Bragg indicated to them that he had doubts about moving forward with the case against Trump. That is shameful. That is shocking. And reportedly, it's been over a month since the office had presented any evidence to the grand jury, which expires in April. And I got to be honest, because I always viewed the Manhattan DA's prosecution based on all the data I had based on Pomerantz and Dunn and the work by Cy Vance as moving in the right direction. And I assume that Alvin Bragg would take the mantle and step up to the plate because it's an obvious case against Trump. But the problem, though, sometimes is this is utter weakness. I think he's psyched out. I think they don't have

the tenacity to go and do a prosecution like this because that is the moment. If you weren't ready to step into this position, Alvin Bragg, you should not have run for the Manhattan district attorney's office. If prosecuting Donald Trump scares you, because frankly, when they talked about this on the spaces, you made a fool of yourself yesterday. You made a fool of yourself to Democrats, to pro-democracy loving people. You made a fool of yourself. There's no other way to say it. Yeah. It's incredibly disappointing. It's incredibly upsetting. And sometimes the wheel of justice, sometimes the wheels of justice move forward. And sometimes the wheels of justice fall right off the car. And I feel like that's what we watched yesterday. I think Pomerantz and Dunn were

also, by doing this, were making a very loud public statement that they were unhappy with what was going on. And it's very clear, judging by what's going on, that they believe that there was a case. They believe that there was a strong case and that they did not think Alvin Bragg was stepping up to the plate in order to prosecute and that he was uninterested in prosecuting. I mean, if they thought that there was a way to get this forward or to change his mind, I'm sure they would have stayed. But clearly there was something, there's something that's happening internally that they decided they can no longer be a part of this department. And now I think the one thing that does bother me though, are these sorts of reactions, because I am as enraged, as upset as anybody about what we witnessed.

But what I don't like is when our side becomes kind of QAnon-ish with some of these things. And I immediately started seeing posts that said, oh, it must have been Russia. Russia hacked Alvin Bragg and Russia got to Alvin Bragg. And that's why he's not going to pursue Trump or, oh, the mob must have threatened him and his family. So he was afraid of this and that and the other. It's like, guys, let's just accept that sometimes the simplest explanation is the correct one. Maybe Alvin Bragg is just not up to the task. He's just not up to it. He didn't think he had a case and these prosecutors thought that he was wrong. And so they left. And I'm sure we will find out more information in the coming days and weeks. I think we deserve as citizens, we deserve a public statement from all the parties to pursue Trump, then why even bother voting for Democrats

anymore if they're not going to hold something? The worst reaction ever, especially because, first off, he's the Manhattan district attorney. I'm guessing you didn't vote for him for the most part. If you're in New York, then yes. But for the most part, guess what? You voted for all these other Democrats, right? And guess what? Democrats are not a federal law bad behavior. You are rewarding Republicans, the people who attacked our country, the people who are currently siding with Putin, the people who are currently getting us on the verge of World War III and who are supporting our enemies in the process. You are supporting them because if they take office, then you could kiss all the work of activists over the course of decades. Goodbye. You could kiss abortion.

Goodbye. You could kiss birth control. Goodbye. You could kiss your right to read books about slavery and history. Goodbye. Your kids education, the department of education, all this stuff goes.

I mean, just think about how stupid the logic did. That's your logic. I mean, think about just how stupid that logic is because the manhattan da is not prosecuting donald trump for criminal conduct your response will be to not vote to let donald trump get back into power to engage in more criminal conduct that's your you think that that's a logical loop that makes sense to you?

It is completely, completely absurd. And at the same time, this is, we should be also latching on to is the fact that their Republicans are giving us gifts as Democratic parties going into 2022. And Brett, did you see this 12 point plan or whatever this plan is that was put out by Rick Scott, who used to be the governor of Florida, who's now a senator, his plan

about raising taxes? And by the way, I want you to talk about the plan. But as I say, raising taxes, this needs to be a message that Democrats hit on. Republicans are raising taxes for everyone other than the billionaires. Republicans are not for lowering taxes. Everybody who I know, who I talk to from all different socioeconomic positions other than billionaires, their taxes are higher right now because of Trump's policies. Those tax cuts harmed you.

The Republican plans are increasing your taxes. As long as you're not a billionaire and you can't write off your private jets and you can't take those types of deductions, these tax plans crush you if you are not a billionaire. But Brett, tell us about Rick Scott's plan. Well, Brett, tell us about Rick Scott's plan. Well, I'll tell you about Rick Scott's plan, but first let me tell you about Thesis. Because some days you wake up ready to take on the world and other days you just can't take it. But imagine what you could do if you had a good day every day. And with Thesis, you could get it all done and make the impact that you're meant to. Thesis makes personalized supplement formulas that are specifically designed to boost cognitive function. It's based on the

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combination and save 10% on your first starter kit. That's takethesis.com slash Midas. So let's dig into Rick Scott's 11 point plan here. This is his plan for the Republican Party heading into the midterms for 2022. Let me tell you some of Lord Voldemort's plan over here. So the first slide, we'll go through a couple of them. I'm not going to go through the whole thing, but the first slide, because I'm going to do a translation. Okay. Let's put this into real person's terms. So as first slide says, our kids will say the pledge of allegiance, salute the flag, learn that America is a great country and choose the school that best fits them. Translation. First off, kids say the pledge of allegiance. So that's not even, it doesn't make any sense. Salute the flag. Yeah. I mean, they do that already. Learn America is a

great country. This part, learn America is a great country and choose the school that fits them best. That's just a clear attack on public education. And that's also saying we're going to ban books that offend kids. We're going to ban books that talk about slavery. We're going to ban books that talk about racism and we're going to ban books that speak about America and anything other than an ultra positive light. And here's the thing though, Brett, America is a great country. We talk all the time about what, you know, the great aspects of America that's taught over and over again in schools. Everybody espouses that America is a great, great, great country. We also want to talk about some of the negative things so that we don't fall back into those

things so that we keep progressing and make us better and better and better going forward and not go backwards to the days where there were problems. We want to solve the problems. That's part of teaching. Well said. And as part of this plan, when he elaborates on the plan, one of their stated goals is to dissolve the federal department of education. That's the Republican priority to abolish the Department of Education. Priority number one, by the way, because this is the first slide. Let's go on. So let's go to slide four, because this is especially egregious. Remember, Donald Trump, the man who tried to overthrow the government, Donald Trump, the insurrectionist, Donald Trump,

the domestic terrorist who is siding with Russia. Number four on the slide of the official GOP platform is we will secure our border, finish building the wall and name it after President Donald Trump. You want to talk about a cult exhibit A or number four, I guess, if you want to go with the numbers on here. That's an economic plan to name a wall after before. That is just so bizarre. So we're going through Republican priorities right now. That's his economic plan? To name a wall? That is just so bizarre. So we're going through Republican priorities right now, right? So first we have abolish the Department of Education.

Now we have name a non-existent border wall after Trump. And we're just getting started. And raise the taxes. I'm getting there. I'm getting there. So that's the next step. We will grow America's economy, starve Washington's economy, and stop socialism. First off, starve Washington's economy? What kind of threat is that? Stop socialism. Here's how they intend to, quote, stop socialism. They want, and it's written right here, Rick Scott tried to deny this on Fox the

other day, but he wants all low-income Americans to be paying more in taxes. So while they're giving tax cuts to billionaires, he wants the lowest earners in America to be paying more taxes. And you could see there is a note right here that says all Americans should at least pay some income tax to have some skin in the game, even if a small amount, currently over half of Americans pay no income tax. Who is that half Americans? It's the lowest earning Americans. It's retirees.

These are the people they are targeting with this bill, with this plan. And it just goes on. It gets worse from there. So we have abolish the Department of Education, ban books, name walls after Donald Trump, and make the poorest Americans pay taxes. That's the Republican plan. Then, of course, they get into the gender issues. There are only two genders. That's also one of the top priorities going into 2022. Once again, nothing in here about actually helping the economy,

nothing in here about dealing with gas prices or inflation, all the stuff they like to speak about nonstop. It's just a culture war fever dream. And then, you know, because I guess the guy can't be one up Madison Cawthorn then who has been a theme of this episode, released his own plan. And in his own plan, your buddy, Jordy, Maddie, you call Maddie. I call him Maddie. He calls me J skis. So here's a Madison Cawthorn in his official GOP plan said he called to abolish social security because he wanted to quote, incentivize the elderly to work. Madison Cawthorn. Wait, repeat that. The youngest member of Congress says that the GOP in their official plan should abolish social security to quote, incentivize the elderly to work. So no more retirement. That's

the GOP's plan. No more retirement. We need to incentivize the elderly to get back to work. Get off your ass, old people. Yo, fuck Madison Cawthorn, man. But that's not unique, Jordy, to Madison Cawthorn. That's not unique to Rick Scott. Rick Scott, by the way, was the governor of Florida. This is Republican orthodoxy. It's disgusting. This is what they believe in. But meanwhile, CBS, YouGov poll shows that 85 percent of Americans do not support banning books from schools if they contain political ideas they disagree with. Eighty seven percent don't support banning books that discuss race or slavery. E%. Don't think books should be banned for criticizing people and events in U.S. history.

The polling is on the side of free speech, of education, of supporting social security, of democratic policies. And we need to lean into those issues and make sure that our voters know who's fighting actually for the American people in 2022. And I have one final criticism, though, of the media. And I think this is something that was been reported, I think, in a disingenuous way. And we may have a debate on this. We may disagree on this. Representative Rashida Tlaib is delivering, quote unquote, a progressive response. This is how it's been reported to Biden's State of the Union address on behalf of a working

family's party's response. And the way this is reported is as though she's issuing a rebuttal to Biden, that the progressive response is somehow not Biden's response at the end of the day. And everybody ran with that. And I don't think that's the accurate story when you actually dig into what this is. Just when the State of the Union takes place, a representative on behalf of the working families parties discusses what types of issues are important for them. It's simply a time because Americans are focused on politics that day to focus on the further commitment of progressive policies. It's not intended to be a divisive thing that's critical of President Biden in any way. It was reported that way as though this is the progressive response to try to divide and conquer. Honestly, it's totally what I thought.

Yeah. And this has been going on now for five years. And we could argue, should Rashida Tlaib do this the same day as the State of the Union? Is there an advantage to that? But it is not an attack on Biden's policies. It is simply a, hey, we want to let you also know that we're focused on your issues. And here's how we're fighting for American people and American workers. I don't think that's a controversial concept, but again, the media likes to spin these narratives that pit progressives against other progressives. At the end of the day, there are two political parties right now, and one believes in democracy. And the Democrats, if you believe in democracy, my party is an open tent party. If you believe that we should support Ukraine, if you believe that we should support our allies overseas, if you believe we shouldn't be praising Vladimir Putin, if you believe that we should be fighting for democracy here in the United States, that we should be supporting our institutions like our courts, and that we should truly be fighting for the rule of law, which means holding

insurrectionists accountable. In this political party, we could have debates over tax policy, and we may disagree, but we could have constructive debates in my open tent pro-democracy party about where we stand on those issues. But I stand against authoritarianism. I stand against Donald Trump. OK, and I think that is an important distinction. And we need to stop attacking internally and finding ways to divide pro-democracy here in the United States. That's what we are all about on the Midas Touch podcast and other podcasts, too, that are all about fighting for democracy. I always love to highlight other podcasts so that people know about what else am I listening to when I am not listening.

We get a new recommendation today, I think, right, Ben? My new recommendation today is Hell and High Water. It's hosted by John Heilman. He was a guest on the Midas Touch podcast. I don't think Heilman would put being a guest on the Midas Touch podcast as first on his bio of accomplishments as being one of the top political journalists, probably in the history of the United States. And by the way, I've seen Heilman, he's been filling in on MSNBC as an anchor and he's been doing he's been crushing it, like doing an absolutely incredible job on MSNBC. Huge shout out to John Heilman, who's just a brilliant political mind. Oh, my God. I love the circuses got me into politics, in another level. When that came out in 2015, I think it was, it really made me start to really pay attention the way he was able to archetype that story.

Sorry, man. Go ahead. On Hell and High Water, John dissects our tumultuous times with deep thinkers from the world of politics, policy, and culture. People like Brian Cox, aka Logan Roy from Succession, former Biden COVID advisor, Andy Slavitt, journalist, Ann Applebaum, an L.A. mayoral candidate, Representative Karen Bass, among others. If you like in-depth conversations that get at the heart of the moment right now, we're still living through that Hell and High Water is the podcast for you. So here's what you

do. Subscribe to Hell and High Water wherever you get your podcast, John Heilman's Hell and High Water. We're going to keep you updated on the unfolding events in Ukraine. I think we're going to try to do some spaces as well over the coming days and weeks. It was very successful regarding the information about Manhattan District Attorney's Alan Bragg or Alvin Bragg's decision. Got a lot of listeners there. And we'll keep you updated. Thank you for fighting for democracy, our hearts and prayers, which is what we can offer at this point to Ukraine. We're going to keep highlighting the protests against Putin that are taking place. But we stand firmly on the side of Ukraine and

make sure you out there, let your voices be heard, that you stand with Ukraine. I know it's something little. I wish you could do more, but at this point, just even doing that is doing something. It's always a pleasure fighting for democracy with you on each and every podcast. We'll see you next time on the Midas Tech Podcast. Subscribe to our YouTube channel. Shout out to the Midas Mighty!