The MeidasTouch Podcast - Secrets of the Trump Family with Stephanie Winston Wolkoff

Episode Date: December 28, 2021

On today’s episode of The MeidasTouch Podcast, we sit down with New York Times best selling author and former senior advisor to the first lady Melania Trump, Stephanie Winston Wolkoff. During this interview, Stephanie reflects on her time in The White House, the sketchy behavior she was witnessing all around her, Donald Trump’s incredibly close relationship with Rupert Murdoch and much more. If you enjoyed today’s episode please be sure to rate, review and subscribe! As always, thank YOU for listening DEALS FROM OUR SPONSORS: BETTER HELP: betterhelp.com/MEIDAS SOLE: yoursole.com/MEIDAS and use code MEIDAS ATHLETIC GREENS: athleticgreens.com/MEIDAS Remember to subscribe to ALL the Meidas Media Podcasts: MeidasTouch: https://pod.link/1510240831 Legal AF: https://pod.link/1580828595 The PoliticsGirl Podcast: https://pod.link/1595408601 Kremlin File: https://pod.link/1575837599 Mea Culpa with Michael Cohen: https://pod.link/1530639447 Zoomed In: https://pod.link/1580828633 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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That's datemyage.com to connect with thousands of singles worldwide. datemyage.com today. That's datemyage.com to connect with thousands of singles worldwide. datemyage.com. Welcome to the Midas Touch podcast, Ben, Brett, and Jordy. We're not going anywhere, even though it's the holidays. We're still here. You're stuck with us. It's the holidays, but we're happy to be stuck with you. We're not stuck with you. We're happy to be hanging with you. I mean, it's really an honor to spend our holidays with you and every day with you online and in all of our chats. You are what makes the Midas Mighty Movement possible. And we hope you're having a great holiday. Hope everybody had a great Christmas. What did you guys do for Christmas? Oh, well, I got to spend it with family, which was always great and important. My girlfriend, Sochi's family.

And so we had an incredible time there and had the Christmas tree. All of Sochi's nieces and nephews and cousins were all there. I love that. I love that. We're definitely not pre-recording the show. So I mean, this is not pre-recorded. Exactly. Coming at you live. Like, listen, I could tell you, you know how, let me tell you what happened this weekend. Sunday, Chuck Todd made a complete fool out of himself

on Meet the Press. I mean, did you guys see what Chuck Todd said? I mean, I cannot even believe it. What are you calling him? Chuck Todd? No, that's not his name. His name's Cuck Todd. Cuck Todd. Oh, man. Well, if you saw him Sunday, you know what I'm talking about. And don't even get me started on the latest from Bo Burt and Marjorie Taylor Greene. Those two are just totally out of control. I just don't even know what to even do about that at this point. And Republicans just keep getting crazier. And the thing is, is that Fox News just keeps going off the deep end with their conspiracy theories. It's just insane. Trump is getting crazier. We're getting closer to indictments on January 6th and things are moving.

And like Brett said, the show is definitely not pre-recorded before the holiday and Christmas, but we do have a brand new- I don't think Ben likes this bit. Ben hates this bit, but we do have an incredible guest today. Ben, who are we speaking with today? We have Stephanie Winston-Walkoff. Let's go. New interview.

Now, one of the things that I always like to profile on Midas Touch are people who stepped up, people who exercised a great deal of courage in very difficult circumstances when they didn't have to. You know, it's why, you know, to me, someone like a Michael Cohen, you know, someone like a Stephanie Winston Wolkoff, who found themselves confronted in very difficult situations. If you look at most of the people and Trump and Melania's and all of their inner circle, mostly every single one of them stayed, continued to aid and abet, continued to deflect. That would be the path of least resistance that would be the easy thing to do i mean at that point these people are getting paid they're by the white house they have

the power of the most important office in the world the white house and they decide you know what i need to step up and i need to do something. For my country, for my country is the biggest thing because they could have very easily just bent the knee and kissed the ring. That is Donald Trump. But no, they spoke out. They knew what was happening. And, you know, that administration was not right. And they did the right thing. And honestly, it cost them a lot of their livelihood, as we'll hear with Stephanie in this interview coming up. Here's one of the things I like to think about, you know, when I think about people like Stephanie Winston Wolkoff, when I think about people like Michael Cohen, when I think of other people in history who have taken a courageous stand and told the truth, talked about difficult situations

they were in, you always see the moments that are on the press, right? You see the moments of them walking into court or walking on the street surrounded by cameras. But what you never get to see is when they're all alone, when they're all alone, getting changed in the morning, when they're all alone, you know, in their bedroom, in the living room, you know, sweating at night, feeling that level of pain and fear of being the subject of death threats, of having the most powerful office in the most powerful nation in the entire history of mankind aimed directly at you as an individual. And we think about the different stresses and issues that we all go through in the day. And we all have that courage inside us, you know, that, that exists there, you know,

the courageous Midas mighty follower who fights valiantly with their parents. Thank you, Jordy. Sneezing the truth. That's just great podcast content. Sneezing the truth. Does that stay in the pod? That definitely stays in the pod, but it's fine. The point that I'm making is that we all have that courage inside of us.

Jordy, you're going to sneeze in my face as I'm doing this heartfelt view. I was sneezing the truth. You never heard of that? We all have that courage inside of us. And it's important that each and every one of you knows that you can be someone who does good, who does great, who's happy, and to fight for what's right. And before bringing in Stephanie Winston-Walkoff, I want to give a brief message from one of our sponsors. This podcast is sponsored by BetterHelp. Is there something interfering with your happiness or is preventing you from achieving your goals? Look, for me, Twitter is a cesspool. And day in and day out, my brothers and I get the most disgusting threats. And quite frankly, it could weigh me down, you know, from time to time. So that's why I really like BetterHelp

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slash Midas. That's betterhelp.com slash M-E-I-D-A-S. Check it out today. And now back to the show. Welcome back to the Midas Touch podcast. We're joined by none other than the Midas Mighty favorite, Stephanie Winston-Walkoff. Stephanie, how are you? I'm doing well. How are you? I'm doing good.

You know, normally I give the intro for the guests, but everyone knows who you are. But I'll just give a shout out to your book as the author of Melania and Me, the Rise and Fall of My Friendship with the First Lady, number one back on. We loved her so much and all the great work you're doing is so appreciated by us and everyone. So I just wanted to say that at the top of the podcast. I really appreciate that, Fred. Honestly, you guys are amazing. I'm honored to be on the show again. And you've made such a big difference

in the lives of so many by just, you know, every day, the truth that you tell us and share with us and the investigative work that you do is incredible. And it's not done by enough people. So I'm most grateful. And I know a lot of people that I know are too. So thank you to the three of you for putting your lives aside and making a difference. And you did the same. What we like to highlight here is, you know, individual acts of courage and, you know, when people reach a breaking point and also a breaking point of saying, I need to do something like what's going on here is wrong. What's happening needs to stop. And I'm willing to make sacrifices to help other people.

And I can make a difference. And every, you know, our listeners know kind of our background and our story of how we were together during the pandemic and just kept seeing these Trump press conferences over and over again. And we were like, Hey, we need to do something. When, what was the moment for you, you know, working with Melania or being there? Like, when was the moment to you where you were like, you know what? I need to do something. I need to take a stand. This is not right. And at great personal peril, I'm going to do something here that I know will benefit others, even if I'm going to expose myself to great personal harm. I'm really glad you asked me that because I still think there's a misconception as to when I decided to make a stand. And it was at the end of 2017, I was still working in the White House for Melania.

And I was asked to personally create a one pager that was made up of what I wanted to see in the press regarding the $107 million inaugural funds and how it was spent. And when I saw the machinations of what was going on behind the scenes between the PIC, the Presidential Inauguration Committee, and the White House, and all of the inner circle, you know, really close to the former president and first lady, who I considered at the time friends, and I felt I was only protecting Melania by sharing all the information with her that I knew at the time friends, and I felt I was only protecting Melania by sharing all

the information with her that I knew on a daily basis. I hired a lawyer, because it was after I had actually gone to speak to Stefan Pozzantino, who was the White House ethics lawyer at the time, who then went and worked at Trump Organization when Mueller had requested for him to come appear before the committee. And the way to get out of that was to go work at Trump Org. I had actually divulged to him what I had witnessed, what I had experienced, what I was, you know, seeing on a day to day basis. And I was really nervous. And so the, you know, the presidential inaugural committee and some of the mischief that went

on there, I know there's some things you can talk about, some things you can't talk about. where you could visually see the foreign influence, individuals and foreign actors coming into Trump Tower to, you know, kind of work mischief and seeing those visuals. I mean, some of them were literally on C-SPAN. They didn't do a great job even like hiding who was coming in. And it was just this moment of, holy shit, the United States of America is for sale right now. And Trump is putting all of our safety and all of our security at risk so that he could basically do what the Trumps have always done and raise money for themselves. And so I just think more attention needs to be paid to it. What's your view generally about why you think it hasn't gotten as much attention recently? I mean, there's been an insurrection, so there could be that.

That's a good reason. But do you think it's going to take a role more forefront as we go into 2022? I really do. I mean, the inauguration, look, I've said this before. I was, you know, a novice when it came to politics. I hadn't voted before. I didn't know what I didn't know. And I learned a really hard lesson that you can't say yes to something unless you know who the players are and what you're actually dealing with. I mean, I was a producer, you know, it wasn't, you know, I was asked to produce the inauguration, I saw it as an honor. And going in and out of Trump Tower, to me, I just considered or assumed that all of those foreign people were just tenants,

which most of them really are or they're not. Or again, it didn't, I wasn't putting the pieces together at the time. So what came of Trump Tower, for me, was an aha moment, actually, was when Rick Gates, who has, as we all know, been indicted and convicted, actually had an all-access pass to Trump Tower. And I was following him in. And after 15 years of friendship with Melania and actually being her senior advisor and working behind the scenes on her forward-thinking messaging and also producing the inauguration, you would think I would be able to get into Trump Tower. But it wasn't. It was just for, you know, Rick Gates led the pack. You know, right behind him was, you know, Tom Barrack and a crew of us. So a lot was happening in front of me. I didn't know who Rick was at the time. And when I told Donald Melania of my concerns, you know, they, Donald acted as if he didn't know who Rick was either. And to me, I just assumed he was telling me the truth because it's so believable. The inaugural planning is where so much happened behind the scenes. And

that's what I had to figure out. And that's actually what I ended up writing the book for. I really didn't know what happened while it was happening because so much was happening at once. So to figure out who the players were and to see, I mean, thankfully I was never in a fundraising meeting. I didn't have access to those meetings. Again, I was the loud mouth. I was the one that everyone wanted to keep out of the budget meetings. I never had access to the bank accounts. I never had access to the checkbook, but I was definitely calling out all the inconsistencies and inaccuracies and everything that I saw from budgets to people, to venues, to vendors, to, I mean, I didn't, you know, I would never kept quiet. And the events that took place within the events of the events of the inauguration, and there were 18 that we planned with three broadcast productions, were the events that are more important than the actual, as they say, the pick events, the meetings behind the meetings. And a lot happened there that no one is aware of. And I wasn't fully aware of it. But when I started connecting the dots and figuring out who was there and when, you start to see a pattern of people within the Trump inner circle that present themselves over and over and their influence over the president,

Ivanka, Jared, you know, really, to me was such a red flag. And then everything that happened at the Trump Hotel, and the ability to, you know, host events at the hotel, stay at the hotel. At first I thought maybe we were, you know, Trump was going to be doing this as a, you know, either a write-off or, you know, comping it quite actually, because that's what I would think most people do do, but it was all about inflation and lining their own pockets. And that's when I really, I became, I was once an asset. That's when I became a problem to that, is when I originally, so actually before I was even in the White House.

Throughout the entire planning, sorry, throughout the entire planning, I was calling things out. But it was really during the point when the Trump International Hotel, D.C., put a price out of three point six million dollars to use the hotel for planning some of the events in honor of. The president elect in honor of Ivanka, Don Jr. and Eric. I couldn't believe that, you know, I think it was the first schedule I was given had three or four events already listed at the Trump Hotel. I mean, they tried to throw it on me that I wanted the Trump Hotel. And, you know, again, when you start looking at the depositions that took place, they, I mean, there's so much perjury. It's unbelievable. And just dissecting that, I had a really great time reading that thousand page deposition regarding the United States Attorney General for the District of Columbia's case against the presidential inauguration, the Trump organization,

the Trump International Hotel. And I'm sorry, I'm just going on and on. There's just so much that people- It's so wild with the perspective now of being like five years removed. It's easy to forget that the criminality from the Trump administration didn't only begin on day one, but began on day negative 100. It began actually even before while they were even planning for the inauguration. That's when the criminality began. He didn't they were even planning for the inauguration. That's when the criminality began. He didn't even have to step into the White House. You mentioned some stuff about you noticed some red flags and some things that people don't even quite know from the day. Is there any moments that stand out in your mind that you might be able to share with us? Well, I did talk about it. I wrote about it, but to speak about it,

it's just that moment of when Donald Trump said to me when I was sitting in Trump Tower at their dining room table while Melania was sitting next to me and Donald was standing over us on the other side of the table. And I told him that Rick Gates was basically running the inaugural. And just in the very beginning, it sent me my contract. He looked at me and he goes, Rick, who's Rick Gates? Rick, Rick Gates. And then he goes off and he looks over and he goes, that son of a bitch stole $750,000 for me. Now, I knew nothing about who Rick Gates was before, after, during.

I actually subsequently printed out a picture that I pulled up online and made it really big and put it on my desk with Donald in his red tie with Rick standing like two inches away from him. And this was before I even got involved. So that's when I was like, Oh, my God, I really am. Like, I would have given the guy Trump my two arms believing him that he did not know who Rick Gates was. And so I go back to that all the time, but that was a red flag to me that, you know, too much was happening too quickly. And I was brought in to produce two events.

And those two events grew to 18 events. They grew into from, you know, productions of inaugural dinners to broadcast productions that budgets were just pre-approved, numbers that to me I've never seen before. Luckily for, you know, Trump, he had Mark Burnett and Tom Barrett together. The three of them were, you know, three musketeers doing whatever they do in their planning. And I think I was sort of brought into, I think I was brought in to produce the inauguration, but I also think I was brought in as a backup that if anything went wrong, there would be someone who would take the fall for everyone.

And it actually worked. You were the scapegoat. Well, it really was only because, and not only because, but I think because of my friendship with Melania, or I know because of my friendship with Melania, even though it was Ivanka who asked, who told Tom Barrack about my work, it was my friendship with Melania that I said yes to produce the inauguration and even getting involved in this because I believe that it was an honor to ask to be, to produce the inauguration, but as well as helping a friend who otherwise wouldn't have been able to really

say or do much. I think one of the wild things is, but for your instinct to preserve documents, text messages, emails, all your correspondence, you could have been in criminal trouble for the inauguration, but you were smart. You held on to every text message, every everything. And in a world now where we're speaking about text messages often, as we see all these text messages revealed with the January 6 committee, I know that you yourself have some text messages of your own. I saw you recently posted one. I was wondering if you could just elaborate on what this text means. You posted it on December 14th. This text was from February 13th, 2018. It says, we're all set. Moving forward on Thursday, plan is that Maggie Haberman will run the story on Thursday per Tom B. And they will

also then give the package to Hannity and Ingram, two names who, of course, were very familiar with over these past couple of weeks, who were also involved in receiving texts throughout January 6th. Could you explain just who sent this text? What is this text about? What's the meaning of it? And why did you feel like it was a good time to post it? So. The president's inauguration committee chairman was Tom Barrack. That's who Tom B is. Maggie Haberman was the friendly within the White House, the New York Times reporter journalist who was going to be given the exclusive as to the release of the Form 990, which is what is given to the Federal Elections Committee as to how $107 million was spent in the planning of the inauguration. That text was sent to me by Heather Martin. Heather Martin was the

chief financial officer and treasurer of the presidential inauguration committee, who worked with Douglas Ammerman and Jeff Larson of the RNC. Heather then became the CFO at the White House and oversaw the presidential budgets there. She was someone who I worked with day in and day out. In the planning of the inauguration, she oversaw the budget with Sarah Armstrong. They pre-approved the $25 million that went to inaugural productions. And they then approved the $25 million that went to Hargrove. And as you start going down the 990, that's a whole nother story. And that's for a whole nother day. But they, you know, personally checkmarked the funds that were being used and what they were being used for. I found this really important at the time, obviously, because Kennedy and Graham are very involved in the White House. But it just shows the public that the plan to move forward in telling the American people for the past year

that they've been waiting for how was $107 million spent to produce these 18 events and why was a plan of action set up and collaboratively agreed upon by the White House, Hope Hicks, Stephanie Grisham. I mean, you name it. Everyone signed off on this except me. And that's when I needed to be shut up. And that's when I became the front page, the headline news that it was Melania's friend who received $26 million. Unbelievable. So even back then, in the very early days, Hannity and Ingraham and these journalists were doing the bidding for Trump and acting as his communications. So I'm sure you weren't surprised when a week or two ago, you know, those text messages were

released where Hannity and Ingraham were basically acting like a crisis communications firm for the White House. And they've been the crisis communications plan a firm basically i mean they really are and that's i mean look rupert murdoch is donald you know bro like he really is like they have a bromance and um they have always worked together in whether it be releasing you know nude pictures whether it be a headline about them get you know melania don Donald getting engaged. I mean, it is so constructed. People think that things happen by chance. Nothing happens by chance with the Trumps, nor with the release of certain documents. And we try to remind our listeners, Stephanie, that everyone gets focused on Fox News, but Rupert Murdoch owns newspapers throughout the

country. He owns throughout the world, tabloids throughout the world, radio stations throughout the world. So when they have a message that they want to get out, they could get it out in a variety of different ways. They could get it out as gossip in a gossip rag. They could get it out as, you know, quote unquote, hard news through a newspaper. They have ways of funneling their information to anybody, basically laundering information directly from the White House. That wasn't the biggest point, though. I got that breath, though. Stephanie, you believe that they were leaking their own nude photos and that and that that was strategically placed in these papers? Well, I think that Donald needed the attention to be taken away from him. And if you actually look at the timeline as to when they

were released, what was going on with him, you'll see that it was a great deterrent. And that is what, you know, Donald is the master of. It's, you know, shine the light over there. So no one really knows what's going on over here. And Melania has been someone that look she signed up for this you know she knew who she was marrying she told me a million times over you can't change someone don't try now with her you know nfts and all the things that she's trying to do it's like the same thing that donald does it's always she is not only you know complicit to this, but she's an enabler of so many things that happen. Did she agree to that? To allowing, you know, Donald's release news? Did she know what was going to happen? That I don't know. Did she know that it happened and that it was something

that, you know, and I do write about it in Melania and me, that Donald and Rupert spent Valentine's day together. And that Melania told me she's never go. Oh, so romantic. Valentine's day in the white house was with Rupert. And I tried desperately to get Melania to go to dinner with Donald. Cause I wanted them to be seen as, you know, this normal couple. I don't know what I was thinking, but I also wanted to make sure that Ivanka and Jared, because they were making such a big deal about it, weren't getting all the attention because she really, Ivanka really wanted to be the First

Lady and we all know that. And she was usurping everything. But I thought of Melania, but I really, again, I'm now still talking about protecting the office of the First Lady. And so to me, the messaging and forward thinking statements were about what can I do to help Melania appear more, appear to be in more of a, I guess, normal isn't the right word, just in a relationship with her husband, which they actually do have a relationship. And I've witnessed it. I mean, I slept at the White House with them. I ate at their dinner table. I mean, they do have their own relationship and they both got what they needed out of this marriage, right? I say it's a transactional marriage.

It's more than transactional in the sense that, I mean, Melania, and I do say this too, she had two dynamic decades. I mean, she really didn't know, right? In passing, what was she going to do? Was she going, I mean, her modeling career really was the cover of Vogue, you know, and that legitimized her as a model and that legitimized Donald as having a supermodel. But before that, you know, the truth is the truth. Where are, you know, there's a lot that's still,

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Who was her least favorite kid? I try not to talk about the kids because, you know, respectfully to them, I feel they need to have their privacy. And that's referring to Barron. Right. The rest of them. Yeah. No, they're not kids. They are the most unscrupulous, like I've never met such, um, I don't even know the right word to use on

air. Um, so I won't go there. It's a podcast. So you could, you could be uncensored. You could say whatever you want. Oh, that's true. Okay. So I would definitely say Ivanka. Um, I don't think many people are surprised about that, But I do think that people had this misconception that this was a happy family that there, yeah, maybe there was some intrigue between all of them. But no, this was like real palace intrigue. This was, I mean, they loathed, right? It was there was no, they just made it work. They made it work. They kept themselves separate, even though, you know, Ivanka tried to do a lot that Melania wanted to do. And Melania had the ability, again, I was a pain in the ass for Ivanka, because every time she tried to do something, I was there,

you know, I was, I was the only bully pit. I was the only person there. I really was that East wing when Jared's people came over to look at the, at the office space, I literally was on the floor, like with post-its like conference room, communications room, staff, staff office, because they really planned on taking it all over. Wow. And so I think that explains also Jordi to sorry, sorry to interrupt your flow. Uh was the video from when they held the RNC event on the White House lawn, which I still cannot believe they did that event. But if you remember, there was the moment where Ivanka walks past Melania and you just see the daggers, the daggers from her eyes shoot as she walks past. Well, let me tell you, that event is what threw me over the top

really is uh the following day i started writing an article for the daily beast and it was titled um blood on her hands and i i have to tell you mel Melania, not that moment. That moment was typical for me, right? I'd seen it. Melania and I had laughed at Ivanka. Melania, you know, we also cried. I mean, I cried. Melania never, when Melania cried, it was a laugh. She laughed so hard that she would have tears in her eyes,

but she never cried in front of me. I cried all the time. And, but that day to actually see them use the White House as their backdrop really infuriated me. And I found it to be so inappropriate that I began to get myself more involved in the trenches of not just who Melania is as a person, but how she was using, politically using the office to help Donald. So to that, how do you think Melania will be remembered 20, 40, 60 years down the line? Well, I think that I have crashed the, or, or yeah, I think that I've, I've, I've helped crash the notion that she is a mysterious Sphinx-like figure. At least I hope I did, because that had been my goal in all of my interviews, was to make sure that people didn't have this feeling of empathy towards this woman who they felt was locked up and imprisoned by Donald, because no, shape or form is she. Again, I had,

and I know how difficult it is for people to understand because it took me so long myself to come to terms with that. Because on the outside, you see this beautiful woman. You use, I mean, many people correlate beauty on the outside. You think, oh, maybe that's, it's a beautiful person, but that's all she is, right? There's the, she is skin deep and it's unfortunate. And when I see her posts, when I see that she's doing something for children, you know, I think back when I actually was working with experts and think tanks and people that genuinely care about children are making a difference. And she went along with it. But and I believe she cared. And I wish she had so told me that she just doesn't give a shit.

Right. And that she had no plans to do anything except, you know, play dress up because I wouldn't have given up my life to move to DC to not only just find the inauguration, but to set up the swing for her and to create her initiative and work with Yale University, social emotional learning, and all the other people that came to the table to actually really work on a platform that when I was thrown under the bus, it ended and moved away with me. Let me ask you this, Stephanie, Also, you mentioned the NFTs, you mentioned kind of a bunch of the things that she's doing now. Does that surprise you? Like the current behavior and the current conduct? And let me ask you that one first,

because the next one is going to be a good one and an involved. So let me ask you the first one. Does that surprise you? Does it surprise me that Melania is doing NFTs? Not just NFTs, just all of the conduct post presidency, you know, and, you know, doing NFTs like that's not exactly keeping the lowest of profiles. remember when um there were articles written about Melania in which she actually sued um the Daily Mail and and a few other journalists for writing things about her past that were not true um and I do remember that the White House has put had and Charles Harder her lawyer had put out a piece about uh the first lady that this you know affecting her um her uh ability to um i have to use the right word um profit off of being the first lady and that that was not what she was doing at the time but that by hurting her reputation reputation or defaming her, whether or not she was what those

people, journalists have written about. Let me go back and answer that question. I am not surprised at all by Melania taking a backseat to disappearing after Donald has lost. That is who she is. She likes to remain in the background. But if there is an opportunity for Melania to make her own money and to still need to be relevant because she needs it, as many people say she doesn't. It's her way of doing it without actually having to come out to the public, right? She is, you don't see her speaking about it. You don't see her in an interview. You don't hear her voice. You don't,

right? She's not writing the press releases. She's not doing any of that. So for her, am I surprised? I'm not surprised by anything because it's other people that are actually helping her move along it's the same thing when she you know had her her own cosmetic line right um it was you know melania trump um but it actually just i'm sorry it was just melania because ivanka already was using the you know trademark of trump on the ivanka trump everything so you know melania didn't have that opportunity to use trump so melania didn't do so great and did well, but it didn't do so great. The company closed down. And I think this is now her opportunity to use the good graces of the American people who still actually believe

that they are decent people. And beyond that, think that the election was stolen, which is Melania's ability right now, I guess, before Donald gets indicted or convicted or arrested or something to make sure that she gets her fair time to make something off of at least being the first lady. As we're recording this in the holiday season, famously in your conversations with her, we know that she clearly hates Christmas. Well, here's the thing. I can't say, oh my God. So I can't say whether or not she hates Christmas because it's all about gift giving, but I do know that she hated planning the Christmas activities at the White House. And we all know that, right? Obviously, I put out the tape and there's something I do want to say about the tapes, if that's okay. I think it's important for people to understand that I never pressed record on Melania until after, and this was in 2018, after she told me

that she was going to, actually, it was right after she had told me she had met with the White House counsel, and they told her that there was a possible investigation into the presidential inauguration committee. And she was not going to be allowed to say anything on my behalf, that I wasn't involved, that, you know, however know however she knew the truth she knew that I'd hired a lawyer she knew everything but she was going to have to obviously in her mind she felt she was going to have to live by what the White House counsel told her which was that Donald and she were putting out a statement that they were you know very upset how the putting out a statement that they were very upset how the money was spent and that they were throwing this on me. It was after that conversation.

And it wasn't even like a preplanned moment for me. It was a petrified moment when everything that I had been saying to she and Donald were coming true, but it was now being placed on the blame on me as me, opposed to me being the one saying to them, all of these people are doing these things they shouldn't be doing. I want to break it down for you just so that people know, like you were being set up and you realized you were being set up to take the fall and they were recording you. They were putting you in a position where all of the conduct that they engaged in, which we won't characterize other than to say it's all being investigated at very high levels. You were their fall person. And in the Trump orbit,

they always have a fall person in different layers. And the moment you realized you were their fall person, you had to take steps to protect yourselves. And but for being the fall person, you wouldn't have done that. And before that, one of the reasons they made you the fall person is because you wouldn't take their shit, right? You wouldn't sit there and allow them to do things that are being investigated for being unlawful. And you would call about for it. So you were the fall person.

You weren't playing ball. They were going to pin this all on you. And you said, not only do I have to protect myself, but I have to protect the country. And then with releasing those recordings, I don't even think you have to make any defensive. You risked your life. I want people to know that like the death threats and everything that you've gone through, you risked your life to in showing those and showing those recordings. I bet you you get death threats frequently, right? Enough that it's look.

Any death threat getting. But you've gotten multiple death threats. Yes. And standing up to these people. Go ahead. No, I was going to say, you know, standing up to the Trumps and their inner circle is a scary process. And that's why I believe Melania had my back and I had hers, because I felt like it was the two of us against everyone else at the beginning. I kept my shades closed for two years after all of this had happened. I don't say that lightly. There is a group of them or a group of Trump's inner circle that everyone's aware of,

and they've been out in the news and the headlines. But there is such a constituency that no one is aware of. And there's also a constituency that no one's even focused on yet that is in the, that are on the front lines. So there are a lot of cronies that are willing to do anything. And I'm not talking about supporters. I'm talking about individuals that are involved in the machinations of this group of, you know, so yes, I was frightened. And I have to tell you, what was one of the worst things and Jordi brought this up earlier, was that when the Southern District of New York sent me a grand jury subpoena, I was not seen as a, and this was in October of 2018. I didn't know if I was a witness

or if I was being investigated because of what the headlines had done. And so it took that interview for, the prosecutors must understand my role and involvement, you know, because they had heard the recordings that Michael Cohen had taped of me. And that's what opened up the SDNY's investigation. From that, the fear of knowing that I was being held liable

for the criminal activities and behaviors of others wouldn't fly by me. And not only did not have to fly by me, I have always been a record keeper. I have always been someone who is so type A, it's scary. And that's one of my problems is I'm so laser focused. And I have tunnel vision when I get involved in something. And so should I run away? Yes. But I wouldn't back out of something I agreed to do. And loyalty is my Achilles heel. Stephanie, in regards to any of the current ongoing investigation into investigations into Trump and the Trump family, have you been contacted? I don't even know if you'd be able to necessarily tell us, but have you been contacted

by any, you know, AGs, DAs, anybody as part of these investigations to get information on what you may know? I've been involved in three different investigations. I can't talk about them, but I know they're ongoing and one is definitely moving forward. And that one I can actually speak about, which is the United States Attorney General for the District of Columbia. It's a civil suit with Attorney General Khoury seen. And as the lead witness for that investigation into the spending at the Trump International Hotel, I, you know, again, was not okay with the family lining their own pockets and being the beneficiaries of monies coming in from the, even though it was privately raised, from the inauguration into and for Trump and Ivanka, Don Jr. and Eric. So I understand that that case is now going to trial.

And Stephanie, as we kind of approach 2022, you know, the January 6th committee, you know, I think that's one of the things Brett may have been alluding to also, you know, seems to be, you know, enclosing on, you know, high level people, you know, and we'll see what goes on there. We got all these other, you know, investigations. I mean, your experience of dealing with like Melania, how does she, you know, kind of process those things? Does she just completely ignore him and drown him out? Is she part of like the planning sessions from the PR perspective of how to deal with of decisions that we see, whether it's like Trump suing Letitia James in like a bullshit bogus lawsuit that has no merit whatsoever and things like that. She wouldn't be involved in the. She wouldn't even know that he was suing Letitia James, right, like until she actually probably saw it on CNN or Fox News or wherever. Yeah, I mean, she would find out about it just like the rest of us found out about it, which was, you know, the media, which Melania constantly referred to as when anyone attacked her or said anything about her that she that was true, but maybe unkind, that, you know, it was called,

you know, she just said, Oh, that's just the liberal media bashing. And so. She wasn't she. Melania knows everything that's going on as far as. How do I explain it? It's it's a little complicated because Donald does ask her for advice. He does talk to her about certain things, for example. But again, it's in the public domain. So on Twitter, if there were certain things he would write about or certain people he would give attention to, Melania would tell him, you're only making their voices louder. You're only making them known to the public. So when it came to what was happening in the White House, Melania would find things out after the fact, right? So if he,

Donald needed her in the West Wing, it wasn't like the lead up a couple of days to meeting her in the West Wing for a meeting. It was like that morning. You know, if he was traveling to West Palm Beach for an event, Melania would know the day before. And so is she involved? She's involved enough that she knows what's going on, whether she knows it from Donald, from an aide, or from the television. And that to me shows the complicity of knowing what's going on, regardless of who's told you, and allowing it to go on, even as simply as wearing, I know I'm going'm going backwards but like just to wear a mask right tell the children to wear a mask she did a psa and that's to the point of you know is this something new and different from on you know she's going to try and get raise her awareness because she likes

to be photographed and she likes to be seen but But the messaging, she doesn't mean anything. She doesn't actually mean it from a place, a wholesome place. And it's the same thing when it comes to what's going on right now. She will make her visits, say hello, do things. But is Melania involved in the day-to-day with Donald? No. Does she know what's going on? Yes.

Could she say something? Yes. Does she sometimes say something? Yes. I hope that answers it a little bit. I know it's because it is complicated as to her involvement. And I'm not there and I haven't spoken to her. So I can't say for sure. But one thing Melania is, is intelligent. And I know most listeners don't fully understand that yet. But when it comes to Melania and Barron and her family, she is really intelligent. She is smart. She is deceptive. She is deceiving. And she will do whatever it takes to make sure that they are

encapsulated, protected, and taken care of. And if that means keeping her mouth shut, that means keeping her mouth shut, that means keeping her mouth shut. Stephanie, as we conclude this interview, first off, we want to just so much thank you for your time. You have so many supporters out there, who wanted to hear from you. We, of course, wanted to hear from you as we move into the new year. In general, do you have any messages for all the Americans out there who have followed your journey and will continue to follow your journey and who are, you know, going into 2022 are scared. They're nervous. They see the fascism, you know, from the GQP. They see that, you know, Trump was a symbol, but that the problem is deeply rooted and that Trump ism is is intrinsic in what the Republican Party is now. And so what do you say to people like that who are worried, you know, just they seeing these Christmas cards with

Representative Massey and Boebert with the AR-15s. And like, you know, when people are kind of traumatized now, like, what do you say to them going into 2022 about what we could do, you know, for this country? Well, first, I want to wish everyone a happy new year. You know, the upcoming holidays. Really enjoy your family time. Enjoy one another. But I relate to everyone that feels scared or uncertainty with the future. But what I have to say is to always remain strong, because we're all going to get depressed. I mean, I have PTSD from everything that I experienced. I mean, and I know the country has PTSD just witnessing it. So my messaging really

is that I do believe that justice will be served. And I do believe that there are enough of us. There's never enough, but there are many of us that have tried to educate and raise awareness as to the true identity of the Trump family and their inner circle of people, that everything that they say, I understand people who follow them, believe them, but they really, people need to really take a big step back and understand how deceptive everything is and how this family lies, right? take matters into their own hands, or at least try to get along with one another, regardless of their political view, and try and speak to one another again, just hear one another out.

And to hope, and I look at the January 6th committee and the unbelievable strength of Liz Cheney and her team or the team itself. And I'm thankful. We ought to be thankful. I'm thankful that the January 6th committee was formed. I'm thankful for all the voices out there like you guys might as touch in being a voice of truth.

And I do say this isn't about left versus right, but right versus wrong. I just wish everyone would take care of themselves, you know, get their first shot of, you know, their COVID shot, get their second shot, get their booster shot. And we've seen the science. It works. And I've had my booster shot. And regardless of what happens to Trump personally is separate of what we as a country need to do. And I just, you know, I know you guys leave yourselves open

to anyone that wants to have a conversation. I leave myself open to anyone that wants to have a conversation to get to the bottom of the truth, because at the end of the day, there's another generation, my children that I'm, you know, will be here. I want there to be a, you know, a country that they can be proud of and also people that they can look up to. Well, I'm sure they're proud of you. The country and the nation is proud of you and owes you a

great, great gratitude. And so thank you for everything. Stephanie Winston-Walkoff, thank you so much for joining us on this special holiday edition of Midas Touch Podcast. Of course, make sure you, if you haven't gotten the book, I don't know what you're doing, but make sure you purchase Melania and Me, The Rise and Fall of My Friendship with the First Lady, the number one New York Times bestseller. Stephanie, thank you so much. Thank you so much, guys. And have a happy new year.

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I was going to say, it sounds like she knows some things. Sounds like she knows some things. I'll tell you one thing, she knows that Melania just absolutely despises Ivanka, and I find that just so hilarious. Yeah. Well, it's funny because like the clip I brought up with her, you can see those moments on camera and those looks. But to actually get it confirmed from the former best friend who actually literally knows that she was the bodyguard who was told to push her far away when she's coming. Oh no, she's coming down the hallways. Let's get Ivanka away. Legitimately, stuff like that was happening. I just think it's very funny to confirm it. But a lot of real important information that I think she shared with us and excited to see how her story progresses and to see what comes of all

this. I mean, she's witnessed so much corruption and thankfully she did step up, right guys? Because they were going to pin all that on her. And like you said earlier, Ben, when you have the most powerful man in the world and the most powerful office in the world and the most powerful country in the world setting their sights on you, it leaves you in a very delicate, very precarious situation where any decision that you make can affect the rest of your life. And so I am incredibly, you know, just happy that she shared her story and came out and just said, this is the corruption that I was experiencing. This is what they tried to pin on me and just say it and just speak with investigators and tell her story. I think it's so important.

Incredibly emotional interview too, but a very motivating interview. And I'm glad we got to share it with everybody in the holiday season and the holiday spirit. And so I want to give a special shout out to all of our sponsors. Make sure you support them and use the promo codes. Go back and listen again. I said this with the Anthony Scaramucci interview that we did on the previous episode. Go back and listen to all of what Stephanie Winston-Walkoff had to say. It's a lot to unpack, but it will leave you knowing that any one of you can make a major, major difference. So I want to thank all of you for listening to this special holiday edition of the Midas Touch podcast. And I want to let you know that we're not done. We're going to keep giving you new content, new content, and a new episode coming same time as always. And so Ben, Brett, Jordy,

want to thank you all so much. Happy holidays, everybody. We'll see you soon. Shout out to the Midas Mighty!