The MeidasTouch Podcast - Survivor Steps Forward to Expose All as Trump Hides Files

Episode Date: October 19, 2025

MeidasTouch host Ben Meiselas interviews Epstein survivor Lisa Phillips about what she endured and her courageous journey as a survivor and an advocate for survivors as she calls for the Epstein files to be released and Meiselas talks about Phillips new initiative. Visit https://meidasplus.com for more! Remember to subscribe to ALL the MeidasTouch Network Podcasts: MeidasTouch: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/meidastouch-podcast Legal AF: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/legal-af MissTrial: https://meidasnews.com/tag/miss-trial The PoliticsGirl Podcast: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-politicsgirl-podcast The Influence Continuum: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-influence-continuum-with-dr-steven-hassan Mea Culpa with Michael Cohen: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/mea-culpa-with-michael-cohen The Weekend Show: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-weekend-show Burn the Boats: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/burn-the-boats Majority 54: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/majority-54 Political Beatdown: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/political-beatdown On Democracy with FP Wellman: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/on-democracy-with-fpwellman Uncovered: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/maga-uncovered Coalition of the Sane: https://meidasnews.com/tag/coalition-of-the-sane Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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As we know that one of the reasons for this government shutdown is because Donald Trump and Maga and Mike Johnson are trying to prevent this discharge petition from getting its 218 signature in order to stop the release of the Epstein files from coming out, I don't want to lose sight of the survivors who are being impacted by these, I think, malicious moves that are just taking place in plain view to cover up the Epstein files, to cover up Epstein's dastardly acts. And I just want to remember the powerful, powerful move when the survivors were there on Capitol Hill last month, demanding the release of the Epstein files, demanding accountability. And one of the moments that stood out to me during that press conference that was held

by the survivors is a survivor by the name of Lisa Phillips. I'm going to be interviewing and bringing Lisa Phillips in. Why we bring Lisa Phillips in now together if we can? Lisa, it's great to see. I want to show our audience this clip, though, right here of you on Capitol Hill. More I want to speak to you about your speech than what you make of what's going on now with the cover-up of these files, how that's impacting you as a survivor. But then I also want to talk about your background, how you ended up on Epstein's Island, starting as a fashion model for the top modeling agency in the world at that time, elite model agency when you were 17 years old, you then were a model for about four years or so before you arrived at that Epstein Island, and you observed

the trafficking there. You saw that this was not just Epstein. You were able to observe what the ring, the trafficking ring that was taking place there. at the time. And I want people to hear your story because I think it's important that it's told that way, not through the prism of Democrat, Republican, independent, but from the prism of a survivor of a human sex trafficking ring and that there are these predators still out there right now who are being protected by other powerful rich men. And so let me just play this brief clip of you on Capitol Hill to remind people of your incredible speech. And then let's talk about it.

Let's play this clip. A platform supporting survivors. I want to thank all of my survivor's sisters who came before me today. I'll be very short. In the year 2000, I was taken to Jeffrey Epstein's Island while on a photo shoot on a nearby island. Who I saw and what I experienced there was a glimpse into a very dark and disturbing world. for years after I tried to avoid Jeffrey but he had introduced me to Katie Ford

the owner of the Ford modeling agency Epstein's reach went to the very top of fashion, arts, and entertainment this did not just happen to underage girls in Florida in New York City hundreds of young ambitious women were abused by him Epstein was not just a serial predator he was an international human trafficker and many around him knew, many participated, and many profited. And yet, he was protected.

So I stand here today for every woman who has been silenced, exploited, and dismissed. We are not asking for pity. We are here demanding accountability, and I'm demanding justice. Congress must choose. Will you continue to protect predators, or will you finally protect survivors? survivors. And also, I would like to announce here today, us Epstein survivors have been discussing creating our own list. We know the names. Many of us were abused by them. Now, together as survivors, we will confidentially compile the names we all know, who are regularly

in the Epstein world. And it will be done by survivors and for survivors. Phillips, great to have you on here. It was a powerful day. Since that day, you've seen, though, the cover-up continue. I want to know what you make of that day. But since then, it seems that the people covering this up, I've only dug in their heels further. Unfortunately, everyone focuses in the media and in the press on the relationship with Trump

and the cover-up of just... a little bit here, a little bit there, just to keep the public, you know, interested, but they're not really exposing what they really have, and they have everything. There were cameras everywhere. There were, there were documents, they've seen the emails. They basically have gone through everything, and they're not letting the public know what's going on. And I want to rewind the story and then we'll catch us up to the present because I think that so much of the way this is reported out there is through a political lens and the reality is it should be reported through a survivor lens and it should be reported through the lens also of exposing what was taking place. that this was a heinous human sex trafficking ring with hundreds, potentially thousands of victims, underage girls, young women, you were a victim and now survivor of it.

How did you end up on that island? And what did you observe when you were there in 2000? You have this great modeling career, top modeling agency, you know, one viewed as the top modeling agency really in the world that one of the top modeling is in the world and then you get an invite how do you get the invite how do you end up there and then tell us like what did you see when you got there and how did it get from kind of getting there to the part where the exploitation was taking place yeah so my whole point of speaking out was just to get people an understanding of what really was going on in that world that it wasn't just okay I'm taking a young girl to a massage and that was it was he brought you into his world

old. And so I was trying to get a understanding of that. And that's what most survivors standing on Capitol Hill were trying to get the public an understanding of what really was going on. And so for myself, I was a young model living the dream in New York City, had worked really hard to get there. I had a graduate high school in Belgium. And so I just had worked my way, Miami, L.A., Cape Town, South Africa, Europe, and then I arrived in New York City. And shortly after I arrived, I booked a really big job with another girl from my agency. She was a Polish model, beautiful. And we flew to Tortola in the British West Indies next to St. Thomas.

And just spent a few days shooting there. And then we had an extra, like a free day. And the other young model was like, well, I know this guy who owns an island nearby. And I spoke to him and he said that we can go and hang out there for the day. And I was like, oh, they're never going to. let us go. So we spoke to the clients and they were actually like, well, go ahead. And so we got on a boat and we went over to Little St. John's. And so, you know, I was just spent the day at the pool. And at the pool, I observed an older man there with a couple young girls. They were

blonde. And the girl that took me was blonde and started noticing I was a little kind of kind of out of place. But everything was fine. I got to know the girls. We played in the pool. We played in the ocean. And we actually had a really fun day. And then we got ready later on for dinner and went to this beautiful long dinner table, lots of delicious food and seafood and had a really great time talking with the other young girls. And that's when, you know, this charming man walks up and says, hi, I'm Jeffrey. And, you know, kiss me on the cheek, sits down right next to me and begins to, you know, focus in on me. He had already known the other girls there. So he was just asking questions and wanted to know a little bit more about my life and where I grew up. And I told

him, you know, I had lived in England as a child whose my father was in the Air Force and we traveled around a lot in Europe. And he said, oh, do you want to meet a prince? And I was just like, sure. And so at that moment, there was a man that was walking up. I recognized him from the man from the pool and just met him briefly. And then he walked away. And then Jeffrey would ask me questions about my family and my relationship with my father and how close I was to him. These kind of questions that triggered me a little bit at the time because I didn't have a very close relationship with my father.

And I think he could sense that. And so we spoke kind of a deeper conversation that you don't normally have with a man. So he made me feel really comfortable and almost like he cared about me in a weird way. And I don't know, he just had this mentorship quality about him asking about my dreams and aspirations. And I felt like I had a really great conversation with him. And I felt good about the situation at that point. So finished up with dinner and then went back to our conversation. quarters and got ready for bed because it was the evening we were going to spend the night

there and then head back to our island and photo shoot early that next morning so I remember being on the sitting on the bed with the other young model and talking to her and then there was a knock at the door and one of the other young girls walked in and say you know Jeffrey's ready for his massage and at that point I just looked at the other girl and was like what's going on? I don't know how to do a massage. And she's like, oh, well, Jeffrey just likes massages. It's kind of what we have to do. I wasn't really expecting for you to do that, but you know, I guess he likes you and we're just going to have to go do it. And so I kind of argue with a little bit with her because I just thought it was kind of weird. And but I ended up going

with her and walked across, you know, the island to where Jeffrey's quarters were in his bedroom and we walked into that room and you know he was lying down on a massage table naked and uh you know had this little silly grin come in and um was very playful the energy shifted a little bit it was now more personal questions like do you have boyfriend and and asking a little like sexual things and um you know did a real massage and uh talked me some massage techniques and it was kind of you know it was uncomfortable but at that point it was it was just like a weird creepy massage and then he turned over and that's when things got a little bit dark as demeanor changed and um i didn't feel really safe anymore and i didn't really know what

was going on and i kept looking at her and she was just like looking at me like you you need to do this and so you know at that point that's when he assaulted both of us together in that room um that's basically what happened on the island and we kind of just finished up and ran out of there then where did you leave the next day or did you go back to the where you were before where the client was well we had to stay the night there so we went back to the room and I remember staring at the ceiling the entire night in sleep like what the heck does happen and I didn't really understand what was going on and I was scared to death that he was going to come back or there was going to be another knock on the door and it was going to get

worse. But it didn't that night. I just, like you said, got on the boat, went back to the photo shoot, did my job, flew back to New York City. Did he try to contact you afterwards? Was there further kind of communication or contact that took place? Yeah. And this is the part of the story. I really like people to understand about Epstein and his world. You're not getting away from his world. So once you've been abused by him, and I actually saw someone on the island that day, so I was kind of in and wasn't getting away. I didn't know that at the time, but I, his, his, the youngs, well, sorry, those secretaries that worked for him would call me profusely. They would call me every single day, saying, Jeffrey, really, you know, liked you. He thought you were powerful.

You thought you were regret all these compliments to get me to go back and meet with him at his Upper East Side Home and I just refused every single day. It went on for months and they were basically harassing me. And one day, Jeffrey called me and he just said to me, Lisa, I remember what you said on the island, that your dream was to be a foreign model. And I know Katie Ford. And she's a good friend of mine and I would love to send you over there. He told her about you and you know, you just need to go meet with her. And I was like thinking, okay, He's not a bad guy. He wants to help me out. He listened to me. Maybe that was just like my fault. Maybe I was flirty. I don't know. I had just, you know, victims. It just to blame themselves in these kind of situations. I think it's a coping mechanism just to say, oh, maybe he's not bad. And so I just did what he said because it was the biggest goal for me. I told him that on the island. And I went and met with Katie Ford a couple days later. And she signed me up. And,

you know, got into Katie's world at that point, thinking at the time that, you know, I've made it and this is, this is like the next step for me and this is what I deserve. And I just started seeing Jeffrey more in a light of a mentor and helper like he presented himself in the beginning. And Katie Ford said, I love Jeffrey and everyone that I would meet in New York at that time also did love and adore and spoke. very highly about Jeffrey Epstein at that time. So I was starting to get a little confused about him, but I never forgot what had happened.

And then what happened next? When did the kind of communication stop with Epstein in that world? Was it around the arrest? When did communications really cease? Oh, no, it didn't stop after that. Because now I was in the modeling industry world. There's a very well-known sex trafficking ring that was going in the falling into two world, John Luke Brunel, you know, John Casablanca, you know, Katie and many others

that were sending young girls to Jeffrey. And Jeffrey was also, you know, would use, you know, I know, Victoria's Secret. I have a part ownership. And so there was a, there was a lot going on in that world. And that's actually when I spoke out at Capitol Hill. I brought that into it. Some people can be aware what was going on during that time. Jeffrey would call me up and say, I have an audition for you, put me on a plane, go travel for an audition. who was with a very powerful producer or a director at the time. And I'm thinking it's an audition. Found out many years later,

the same, many girls were sent to the same producers, directors, or people in Hollywood for an audition, but it ended up being a lot more than that. I also have an NDA with a very big celebrity that Jeffrey had sent me to for like a party. and um later on something terrible happened so there were things that were going on that i was just

like what is going on then to answer your question i had a young friend who was blonde who was beautiful ambitious young woman who knew geoffrey at that time and she came to me crying one day and said you know you don't really understand who geoffrey is and i'm like i'm starting to get a i don't understand what's going on here either so we started talking about it and she said said she was made to have sex with someone and she could it she just spiraled out of control and um and the young girls at the time we just all started talking and started to figure out something's going on and that's when the bandity fair article was released with him flying with Bill Clinton to South Africa Kevin Spacey and um and then shortly after he was arrested

so he started unraveling through those years and getting more exposed. gosed in that world and people starting to figure things out and then of course the major cover-ups that were happening so as you brought the other survivors together and you all started kind of talking and sharing these experiences what were some of the themes if you will that came up kind of over and over again it seems that this was a highly structured kind of an organized thing you arrive at the island, there's the, they bring, and press you with the pool and, you know, owning an island. Then the, then the dinner takes place where he does the routine. He seems to be asking certain questions to determine family relationships. You know, are you close with your parents? Things

like that. Have the initial sexual assault take place and then afterwards utilize a victim or survivor to then send to the other rich people and other celebrities, fake auditions and things like that. And again, it seems highly structured. It's why I wanted to talk to you about this, too, is just so that people understand the way this sex traffic ring and organization worked. It was methodical. It was there were levels to it. There were lieutenants and there were generals and there were different tiers of the people who young models were being pushed to to be sexually assaulted. Yes, you just, you just summed it up right there. And that's why I spoke out originally. And you're, you understand, this is 15 to 20 years later for a lot of us survivors. So back then,

we were kind of figuring things out, but we had no idea the magnitude of what really was going on. And we wanted to get on with our lives. And most of us, we got on with our lives, became mothers, and a lot of us work in this advocacy world or became therapists. And, but it wasn't a until he died in 2019. I mean, until he died, it was when I realized, okay, wait a second. Now I feel safe enough to start like understanding what happened to me back then. It was always so confusing and there was never anyone to really talk to about it. So it was Virginia Jufre who spoke out and said, I was trafficked to, she has a long list of men. And when she was saying these men, I remember seeing some of those men. So I believed her. And I had a

a friend also who was trafficked to the same one. And so I said, you know, I want to support this woman and not knowing what I was getting into at the time. And I started speaking out of documentaries and then slowly I had to start telling my story. And I wasn't ready for it because I had so much to support the other women. I wasn't really ready to start saying I was abused too because I didn't understand my role in it. I always felt like it was my fault and I didn't know how to get out of it.

I just was so confused about it until we start learning about the grooming and how all these young women were just groomed by him, masterfully, masterfully manipulated and groomed by the best of all time who had enablers and all these other people helping him. And Jeffrey was a fiend. He was a sex fiend. All I talked about was sex. He had to get off six to eight times a day, young woman going into his Upper East Side. mansion six to eight times a day and a lot of the girls knew about his creepy massages but

we didn't speak further on how and this is common amongst serial predators most of the Larry Nassar that you know the the doctor for the gymnast like none of them they were getting this weird doctor thing no but no one spoke about it until many years later when someone had the courage to speak up then it's like oh that's what's happening to me too and when I spoke when I spoke to these survivors that were underage at the time, I was like, okay, I was in my early 20s, like hundreds of others, but it was the exact same type of abuse that he was doing. It was the exact same MO with the massage turning into an assault. So I just started speaking out and gained confidence and through therapy and I just was building into this powerful woman

who wanted to make a difference. So that's, That's kind of what led up to today. So you've spoken Capitol Hill. It's important for you and the survivors you were with to have these files released to bring transparency to what's been taking place. Tell us why that's important. Just so people, it may seem obvious,

but it may not be obvious. Why do you want to see those files get released and bring transparency there? Well, really for me, it's just because people are so confused about what's going on. Not only as survivors are still confused, but like the transparency, what is really going on?

Everyone makes it about Trump and Epstein. Okay, maybe there's something there, and about Epstein, but it's about this whole ring of men. The only person in jail is Galane, a woman. So where are all the other men that were benefiting and profiting from all of this? That's what makes me upset because us survivors, we know that they were there.

We saw them. We know that we're royalty princes, very powerful people in academia and tech. And we saw them at parties. They knew what was going on. Why aren't they exposed? And people say, well, why are you speaking out now? Well, we're pissed off now because nothing has happened.

And yeah, it's just a frustrating thing for me. So I'm at the point where it's like I'm at my wits and standing on Capitol Hill. It was more just like, look, I'm not going to sit up here and just tell my sob story like everybody else is. We need to do something about it. You think you have the power? I mean, you don't think that we have the power too. You don't think that we understand what's going on here. So it was really just to say, you need to do something because we also have the power to do something.

And as you saw, look how many people stood up for us too. Absolutely. I mean, look, the country is standing up for you. I mean, the frustrating thing is that most of the country standing up for you and say, and release these files and it shouldn't be a political thing. Just release the files and support the survivors. It should be a very, very simple thing. I mean, it should be the obvious thing.

Now, the Speaker of the House, Speaker Johnson, he often invokes the victims and the survivors. He says, the reason that we can't release these files is, I'm looking out for the survivors here and the victim. He said that over, thus we can't release the file. So what would you say there to Speaker Johnson or anybody who invokes the name of survivors as the reason why they're not releasing the files? Well, I think there's something to be said that's very truthful when Johnson says that is because what they do know involves a lot of survivors that were underage

some children. So maybe in some ways they do want to protect that. I've always said it goes very dark. And so a lot of times what they're going to release, the real evidence and the real stuff that's out there, a lot of people probably aren't really ready to see. And there are young survivors that were abused. And so in a way, there might be some protection of the survivors. we do collectively understand that and many of us or many young women or children at the time were probably on those in those records or in those videotapes from my understanding. So maybe there is some type of protection and maybe there's taking time to really figure out how to handle this.

And then we have, you know, the very powerful people who don't want anything released as well. So there's probably some protection there, major protection there. Has there been any effort to try to talk with them or speak with, you know, the FBI? I mean, they spoke with Geelaine, but there hasn't seen, at least up until now, I've heard that they hadn't returned the calls of survivors or haven't set meetings with survivors because perhaps one of the ways to address all of these concerns would be to speak to the survivors directly and figure it out. And, you know, can we redact the names of the victims? And obviously, we shouldn't be showing the videos of sexual assault and rape of anybody. So there's a way

not to release those, but also release the names of the powerful men because I can't see how, I can't see the justification for invoking the names of survivors. for not releasing the information on the sex trafficking ring that's still out there today. I certainly get, let's make sure survivors that don't want their names out there or don't want their images out there. Sure, absolutely. But on the sex trafficking ring, these men are still out. These people are still, a lot of them are still alive out there probably doing this right now. you know and oh yeah that doesn't go away right that addiction and that perversion doesn't go away it only gets stronger has there any been has there ever been where does that stand with

fbi doj meeting with you have you requested meetings with them we have we have requested and they have reached out i don't think they're doing 100% full effort but they they have reached out to a few survivors, and, I mean, we're in the process. I mean, there is a confidential process in development that allows for survivors, the opportunities share what they know with people in D.C. So that is an ongoing thing right now. And what do you make of it when, to your point, I mean, look, was there a Trump-Ebstein friendship, relationship? Yes. grounding the story in a purely trumping is he in the files i don't know maybe who knows i mean

but the reality is he seemed to have made it a lot about himself by himself making it about that's been the strange part is that he's very personalized this and said this is this is an attack on me and this is a hoax and this is an attack on me. And so he's been one of the main people who have like, I was like, okay, we just release the files. The survivors want the files released. I just, when you, regardless of whether the president was Trump or some other person, just the fact that the president of the United States is using the word hoax. And he could maybe say, well, I mean, as it relates to, I don't know, but he's using the word hoax around a story that you described that is catastrophic.

catastrophic, traumatic, and has impacted thousands of women in the worst way possible. You just don't use the word hoax around this. Like, it's, it's incomprehensible. Yeah, it was insensitive for him to say it like that. I mean, I do see that he is getting extremely attacked. And so now he's getting so, he's relating everything to him. And I do wish the press, the media would stop attacking him so much so we can actually look at the others that are involved because when they do focus on him so much,

we're not getting answers of what's going on with everyone else. So I can agree with him in that way of stop attacking him so we can shift the focus somewhere else. And I don't know if that would help or not, but I just feel like every single interview is about the relationship with Trump. And I'm trying to say there's so many more out there that we can focus on. to get answers and what's what's the message that you want out there more than that just about like as you went to Capitol Hill said you want the files release who you you want others in addition to

gilane held accountable let me ask you about that before this because we haven't talked about gilane you know gilane's acted like she knows nothing about this and that she's you know barely even knew what was going. Like, when she spoke to the DOJ, she acted like she was not anywhere knowledgeable. What did you make of that interview? It was infuriating. Gilein was the mastermind.

I know in the 90s, everyone, from what I've researched and have been told that she was the mastermind in the 90s. I think other people took over this whole operation in the 2000s, But she knows everything. I mean, everyone who was involved knows that she knows everything. I think she just is just trying to save grace at this point so she can get out and be free. But there's a lot of survivors that were affected by her and abused by her. So they're not standing down and they will not let her be released.

There will be a very big set. What message do you want to send to everybody out there? who, you know, you have a four survivors podcast. You're going to be one of the people leading the Sexual Predators Accountability Institute, which is a nonprofit to help other survivors. So you've made this also part of your life work. So what other message do you want to send out there to people?

Well, my message is always for survivors, just to own your story and be able to speak out and try to get the justice that you really do, deserve, whether it's the litigation or just through healing. And on Monday, Governor Newsom signed the Assembly Bill 250, which reopens the California adult window for another two years, starting on January 1st of 2026. So that's a big deal.

That's a great start in the right direction for survivors to go back, whether it's 10, 20, 30 years, and be able to go after and get justice, you know, for what happened to this. them. So I always stand for survivors. My podcast is about, you know, survivor voices. And that's my mission. Thank you so much for sharing your story with us. And I know it's, I know it's hard to go back into some of those areas. I should say, I don't know as a man, but I can't even imagine. There's no words for me to describe what you've been through other than for me to thank you

about what you're doing to bring attention to this. And so when the website goes live for the Sexual Predator Accountability Institute, we'll make sure to promote that here and tell other survivors where they can go to contact you as well. And thank you for sharing your story, Lisa, we appreciate you. Thank you so much. Lisa Phillips, everyone. Everybody hit subscribe. Let's get to 6 million subscribers.

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