The MeidasTouch Podcast - The most critical election you’ve never heard of: North Carolina’s Supreme Court

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Starting point is 00:02:06 datemyage.com. Hey there, this is Jordy Maiselis, co-founder of Midas Touch, and you are listening to The Mighty. Look, when I don't host the Tuesday and Friday podcasts with my brothers where they barely let me get a word in, I host The Mighty on the same podcast channel, which highlights some of our most interesting content that's either gone viral or will go viral. On this episode of The Mighty, my brother Brett Mycelis interviews

Starting point is 00:02:34 North Carolina Court of Appeals Judge Lucy Inman. Judge Inman is a Democrat running for a vacant seat on the North Carolina Supreme Court. The North Carolina Supreme Court is currently four to3 in favor of Democrats, but two of the Democratic-held seats are up for re-election. Court of Appeals Judge Inman faces off against the radical right extremist Court of Appeals Judge Republican Richard Dietz for a vacant seat. Ultimately, the North Carolina Supreme Court will be ruling on

Starting point is 00:03:00 issues like voting rights and a woman's right to choose, and there'll be disastrous results if a radical right extremist who wants to take away your freedoms are appointed. I know many podcasts and shows focus on federal races like Senate and Congress or state governor races, but you know by now that the Midas Touch podcast, well, we make a point to cover races that are less talked about, but just as important like Supreme Court races. Let's check out this interview between Brett Mycelis and Judge Inman. I am honored today to have Judge Lucy Inman on the program. Judge Inman is a former trial judge, litigator, and print journalist, but that's not all. She's also been an appellate judge since 2014, and she is the Democratic candidate for North Carolina Supreme Court Justice. Judge Inman, thank you so much for joining us today.

Starting point is 00:03:52 Oh, thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate your taking the time and getting the word out about how important these state Supreme Court races are. We love focusing on these races because at a certain point, they're almost more important than many of the high profile races that people think about. First, I got to comment on the absolutely for the people listening to the show, the absolutely gorgeous landscape behind you. Where are you, Judge Inman? It looks absolutely beautiful.

Starting point is 00:04:20 I am in Watauga County, North Carolina, on a ridge that sits on the eastern continental divide. And North Carolina is a big state. We have beautiful beaches and we have beautiful mountain areas like here in Watauga County. And I was on the foothills of the mountains last night. And this evening, I'll be meeting some folks in Boone, which is in Watauga County. And so this is my office for today. And I am so lucky. Now I know why I know so many people who have decided to retire in North Carolina or move to North Carolina. It looks absolutely stunning. But let's get into not only your actual Zoom background right now, which is gorgeous, but I want to hear about your background, Judge Inman, because you have quite the background,

Starting point is 00:05:14 quite the range there. As I mentioned earlier, you went from journalist to appellate judge, and now you're running for North Carolina Supreme Court justice. So how does that happen? How does a journalist become a judge and then run for the Supreme Court? Well, how does that happen? How does a journalist become a judge and then run for the Supreme Court? Well, first, I'll say my first job out of college was working as a newspaper reporter, and that was in 1984. And print journalism is struggling so much now. But at the time I graduated from college, and I hope that's the same is true now no matter what form of media one of the best jobs you could ever have is to be a journalist because you get paid to ask people questions and you don't just have permission to go out and do that work

Starting point is 00:06:02 I felt like it was a responsibility that I had to the public to ask people questions. And you get to meet people from all walks of life. When I covered courts in North Carolina, I had first covered crimes and emergencies and met people on the worst days of their lives in very fast-breaking news situations. But when you're covering courts, the dust has settled a bit. We are not in an emergency situation, but we are asking what are going to be the consequences of someone's most terrible experience, whether or not that person has been accused of a crime or they've been a victim of a crime or something terrible has happened to them or a loved one. And they are left trying to figure out how they are going to pay for their medical bills for the rest of their lives, whether they're having a business dispute.

Starting point is 00:06:59 All walks of life come to a courthouse. Very few people who come there are happy. Even if they're coming to serve on jury duty, they're being asked to put their lives on hold and make really hard decisions and get paid nearly nothing for it. And I loved covering the courts because it was just a front row seat to humanity. And I could see that the jury was looking to the judge to treat them fairly and with respect. So were the parties. And I thought, you know, I'd like to work in the justice system and not just write about it. So that's how I decided to go to law school. That's really interesting. I never really thought about the parallels there, but there definitely are quite a bit. And for our listeners who don't know, what exactly does an appellate judge do? How is that different from other courts in North Carolina? Well, it is

Starting point is 00:07:53 different from other courts in North Carolina and in other states. Most people, when they think of judges, they think of the trial judges that you see on television and in movies, presiding in trial with the jury and with witness testimony. You are experiencing, whether it's fictional or nonfiction, in real time, the presentation of evidence and following the jury's decision based on evidence. One of my favorite older trial judge once said, the greatest judges are the trial judges because they must make decisions in the heat of the day that the appellate judges get to review in the cool shade of the evening. Appellate courts don't work with juries and we don't see or hear evidence from witnesses. We have to rely on the written record from the trial court. So, transcripts of testimony,

Starting point is 00:08:49 pictures of evidence, and we don't get to decide factual issues. Those are left to the trial courts and to the juries who are there when the evidence is being presented. We generally review cases for legal error. Our decisions, unlike the trial court decisions, also have a broader impact. And that is because in each decision, in each decision, we summarize honestly the facts and the law and the analysis that leads to our ruling. And then our decision becomes precedent, which is binding on our court and on all the trial courts. So when we make a decision in a case on a legal issue like cases with like legal issues should follow that decision. Yes. So it's almost as important as it gets, the decisions that you're making. But now you're running for North Carolina Supreme Court.

Starting point is 00:09:55 I want to make sure that everybody understands exactly why these North Carolina Supreme Court elections are so important. Why should our listeners, you know, in California, in Texas, why should our listeners all around the country care about these North Carolina Supreme Court elections? Well, the North Carolina Supreme Court, and I'm on the intermediate appellate court, the Court of Appeals right now, our Court of Appeals must follow all the precedent from the North Carolina Supreme Court. The North Carolina Supreme Court is the court of last resort in North Carolina. And it has the last say on issues of common law and on issues of interpreting our state statutes and interpreting our state constitution. And the reason that is so important, and a lot of people don't know that each state has its own constitution. We have a federal constitution. The delegates from North Carolina, way back when, would not agree to sign on to the federal constitution until a Bill of Rights was added to it. But then North Carolina has its own constitution with its own

Starting point is 00:11:06 version of the Bill of Rights that's a little different. And every state's constitution may be a little bit different. And you cannot provide fewer rights in the federal constitution. But a constitution for any state can provide broader rights than the U.S. Constitution. So, for example, the North Carolina Supreme Court over the last several decades has held, and I will note in opinions written by Democrats and Republican justices, that our state constitution provides for a right for every child to receive a sound, basic public education. That's not in the United States Constitution. That's a right in North Carolina that we have beyond the federal Constitution. Our Supreme Court has also held that North Carolina's Constitution, and this is real simple because it's just in the words of the Constitution.

Starting point is 00:12:07 We've all heard of the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness from the federal Constitution. Well, North Carolina's Constitution has a fourth right in that list, and that is a right for every person to receive the fruits of their labors. That was added to our state constitution in 1868, and the historical record suggests that it was added to make sure that people knew that formerly enslaved people were entitled to be paid for their labor. And that provision has been applied in modern times to protect workers, to fair treatment from their employers, and to protect businesses from some regulation by the government. and probably most salient to the people who are watching or hearing this, the North Carolina Supreme Court held that our state constitution provides through several clauses, including a free elections clause, a free speech clause, a free assembly clause, and an equal protection clause, protection for North Carolina voters, prohibits some partisan

Starting point is 00:13:48 gerrymandering of state legislative districts and congressional districts. That decision followed a decision a few years ago by the United States Supreme Court, which held that the issue of partisan gerrymandering was just non-justiciable by the federal courts, was a political question that the federal courts could not decide. And the U.S. Supreme Court held in that decision that it was not leaving this issue to a complete void because state Supreme Courts could examine these issues under their own state constitutions. So that's the most recent example. The case that you're referring to here is the Supreme North Carolina Supreme Court had struck down the state's new gerrymandered maps that were drawn up by the Republicans.

Starting point is 00:14:35 And then, if I'm not mistaken, they then denied an application from the North Carolina Republicans asking it to reinstate that map. So what does that what does that exactly mean going into these midterm races and in 2022? Who actually gets to make the final decision over the congressional maps in North Carolina now that the court has rejected the Republican drawn maps? Well, after the North Carolina Supreme Court rejected the Republican drawn maps, I'll say the maps drawn by the majority of our legislature, really. The matter was remanded to the trial court. It was a three-judge trial court panel, and it in turn had some appointed masters. And they were two former North Carolina Supreme Court

Starting point is 00:15:20 justices, both Republican, and one former North Carolina Superior Court judge. And those special masters redrew the district lines for part of our state legislature, that is the state senate, and for the congressional districts. And those are the maps that are effective for the election coming up in November. So that's the status for this election. In terms of what that does to the political climate, the ink was hardly dry on the Supreme Court, North Carolina Supreme Court's decision declaring that partisan gerrymandering violated our state constitution. Then extreme partisans took to social media, took to the airwaves and said, wait a minute, folks, you need to know something. The North Carolina Supreme Court has four Democrats and three

Starting point is 00:16:16 Republicans. The majority opinion on gerrymandering was written by Justice Robin Hudson, and she was joined by the three other Democratic justices. The three Republican justices dissented to that decision. And these pundits said, hey, look, Republican Party, if we can just take one of those Democratic seats, we can have a new majority. And hey, who cares about precedent? The new majority could overrule that decision before the next election cycle. That is a very partisan view of what is happening. It's very unfortunate. I don't believe judicial races should be partisan. It's very, very bad for our judiciary. And it didn't used to be this way in North Carolina. But our legislature made these races partisan a few years ago in the lead up to the 2016 presidential election.

Starting point is 00:17:18 And I want to emphasize because I am a lifelong Democrat. I don't tote any line for the Democratic Party. And I know a lot of Democrats may be disappointed to hear that, but that's not my job. And it's really in violation of my duties to say that I would tow the line for anyone. The statistics show us that since the 2020 election for our North Carolina Supreme Court, when we lost our first African-American woman Supreme Court Chief Justice, we lost our first Jewish justice, and I lost a race to a justice who has become the most politically active justice in my lifetime here. The three Republican justices on our Supreme Court have

Starting point is 00:18:08 voted in unison in 93 percent of all the cases that they have heard. The four Democrats who make up the majority of our Supreme Court in that same time period have voted in unison in about 48% of the cases they've heard. I believe that's a contrast between independent justices and justices who are working together because it's just not a coincidence. And I want to be cautious to say I haven't been party to any of their deliberations. I don't know their reasons other than the reasons they write in their decisions. Carolina Supreme Court to make sure that independent justices decide cases without fear or favor and not rubber stamp anything that another branch of government does and also not legislate from the bench and decide that we know the law better than our predecessors and so that

Starting point is 00:19:23 we can just reject precedent. Hey, I think you hit the nail on the head, though, because I really do believe that people want, you know, whether it's politicians or judges, people who are really just civil servants, not trying to get in this partisan back and forth, but are trying to do the right thing for the people. And to me, that's the thing that I always look for when I'm looking at candidates and stuff. I'm like, who is actually who has the compassion? Who is actually looking at the law? Who actually wants to do right by the American people or in your case, by North Carolinians? Before we end this, I just want to ask with all that kind of partisan division that you were just talking about, do you still have faith in our institutions after these past few years, just

Starting point is 00:20:04 after all the drama, after all the chaos that we've experienced as a nation? I will say this. I can't do anything about the United States Supreme Court. Not one thing. And I am bound by my oath of office to follow precedent from the United States Supreme Court about the matters in which it has the last word. I have faith in the North Carolina Supreme Court choose, do we want our third branch of government to serve the role that it's supposed to serve and has served for hundreds of years? And that is to be the final arbiter of what the people's rights are, independent of the other branches? Or do we want our state Supreme Court to be just another partisan branch of government? And I believe if you ask not just Democrats, but unaffiliated voters and many

Starting point is 00:21:13 Republican voters, they want a fair and impartial judiciary that is going to stay in its constitutional lane. So I do have faith in that. I must emphasize before we go another name, and that is Justice Sam Ervin, who is running for reelection this year on the North Carolina Supreme Court. Justice Ervin was elected statewide to the Supreme Court in 2014, the same year I was elected to the Court of Appeals in nonpartisan judicial elections. And he's running for reelection. And the spin on the street, and I'm not attributing this to any judicial candidate, but the spin on the street from the Republican Party is, hey, folks, if we can take either of those two seats, if we can replace Justice Ervin, or if we can replace the outgoing Justice Hudson with a Republican, folks, we're going to have a new majority, and we're going to see a new

Starting point is 00:22:20 direction for the North Carolina Supreme Court. In my opinion, we don't need a new direction. We need to hold on to the stable court that we've had. It provides stability. And in these trying times, when we are so worried about whether we have faith in these institutions, we do not need to abandon. We do not need to abandon the stability of our state Supreme Courts. Well, Midas Mighty, if that's not a reason to get out and vote for Judge Inman, I don't know what is. Please get out there. Pay attention to all these races up and down the ballot. Every single race is so important. If you want to support Judge Lucy Inman's candidacy right here. You can go to lucyinmanforjustice.com. That's lucyinmanforjustice.com. Judge Inman, thank you again for joining us today on the Midas Touch

Starting point is 00:23:11 podcast and best of luck to you. Jordy here again. I knew that interview would be compelling, but it even exceeded my expectations. Court of Appeals Judge Inman would make an incredible Supreme Court judge in North Carolina. You can find out more information about Judge Inman would make an incredible Supreme Court judge in North Carolina. You can find out more information about Judge Inman at LucyInmanForJustice.com. That's LucyInmanForJustice.com. Hey, thank you so much for listening. And please make sure to check out Midas Touch merch and gear and clothes at store.midastouch.com. That's store.m-e-i-d-a-s-t-o-u-c-h.com. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of

Starting point is 00:23:47 The Mighty. Until next time, Jordy Maiselis here, and as always, shout out to the Midas Mighty!

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The MeidasTouch Podcast - The most critical election you’ve never heard of: North Carolina’s Supreme Court

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