The MeidasTouch Podcast - Trump FBI Director Implodes Under Cross-Exam at House Hearing

Episode Date: September 18, 2025

MeidasTouch host Ben Meiselas reports on FBI Director Kash Patel getting cross-examined at a House of Representatives hearing after testifying yesterday before the Senate and Meiselas shows how the House was more effective in their cross-examination of Patel than the Senate was. Our listeners get Harry’s Trial Set for only $8 + a Free Gift at https://www.Harry's.com/MEIDAS. #harryspod Visit https://meidasplus.com for more! Remember to subscribe to ALL the MeidasTouch Network Podcasts: MeidasTouch: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/meidastouch-podcast Legal AF: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/legal-af MissTrial: https://meidasnews.com/tag/miss-trial The PoliticsGirl Podcast: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-politicsgirl-podcast The Influence Continuum: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-influence-continuum-with-dr-steven-hassan Mea Culpa with Michael Cohen: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/mea-culpa-with-michael-cohen The Weekend Show: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-weekend-show Burn the Boats: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/burn-the-boats Majority 54: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/majority-54 Political Beatdown: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/political-beatdown On Democracy with FP Wellman: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/on-democracy-with-fpwellman Uncovered: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/maga-uncovered Coalition of the Sane: https://meidasnews.com/tag/coalition-of-the-sane Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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ring and are covering up Donald Trump's dark past. Watch as Democratic Congresswoman Lofgren had a very basic question for Cash Patel. How many times did Donald Trump's name appear in the Epstein files? One, 1,000, 10,000, Cash Patel refuses to answer. Here, play this clip. I said it wasn't. So you're saying that none of this happened? No, I'm saying it was inaccurate. Okay. How many times did President Numbs appear in the Epstein files? More than 100, more than a thousand? No. And what we've been able to release is what we've been legally able to release and that is no i that's not the question i asked you how many times did the president's name appear i don't know it's your testimony you do not know that answer a number of times no um next up

you have democratic congress member dan goldman who says why aren't you releasing the witness interviews why aren't you releasing all of the evidence that the doj can release tomorrow and cash patel tries to squirm out of it but congress member goldman says i'm a former prosecutor i know you can release this. Here, play this clip. It was a fake one. And I want to understand what the court order prevents you from releasing witness statements that the FBI took. You should know that as a real prosecutor, when the court hand down to a protective order and a motion to seal, the material is sealed unless that your testimony here is that all of those witness statements are under a court order,

a protective order. We are providing everything we can legally provide. Now, that's not my question. My question is, why are those witness statements that are not grand jury testimony that if they were under a protective order are no longer under a protective order, why are they not being released? How are they not under protective? Why are you not going to the court like you did for the grand jury testimony to unseal those records? The DOJ did go to the court. No, not on those records. Why aren't you going?

You just went on grand jury. Time of the gentleman has expired. You are hiding the Epstein files, Mr. Perthel. expired, you are part of the cover-up. Can I respond? Sure can. Any allegations that I'm a part of a cover-up to protect child,

sexual trafficking, and victims of human trafficking, and sexual crimes, is patently and categorically false in the work of my... So I hope you will talk to them when they have requested to speak with you. Because the victims have gentlemen yields and you are not responding to them.

Next up, you have Democratic Congress member Eric Swalwell, cross-examining Cash Patel. Patel refuses to give a direct answer whether he told Attorney General Bondi that Trump's name is in the Epstein files. Play this clip. Remembering your oath to tell the truth, did you ever tell Donald Trump his name is in the files? I have never spoken to President Trump about the Epstein files. Did you ever tell the Attorney General that Donald Trump's name is in the Epstein files? The Attorney General and I, I've had numerous discussions about the entirety of the Epstein files and the reviews conducted by our team. Did you tell the Attorney General that Donald Trump's name is in the Epstein files?

And we have released where President Trump's name is in the attorney's file. Did you tell the Attorney General that the president's name is in the Epstein files? During many conversations that the Attorney General and I have had on the matter of Epstein, we have reviewed. The question is simple. Who can tell the Attorney General that Donald Trump's name is in the Epstein files? Yes or no. Why don't you try spelling it out? Yes or no, Director.

Use the alphabet. Yes or no? No, ABC, B.E.F. It sounds like you don't want to tell us. Did you tell the Attorney General that Donald Trump's name was in the Epstein Files? Why don't you try serving your constituency by focusing on reducing violent crime in this country and the number of pedophiles that are legally carbered in sanctuary cities in California? I'll work with you on that.

Regular order, Mr. Chairman. I'm the law and gentlemen from California. Did you tell the Attorney General that Donald Trump's name is in the Epstein files? Question has been asked and answered. You've not answered it, and we will take your evasiveness as a consciousness of guilt. Director... And Congress Member Swalwell continues down this line of cross-examination. So what are you saying?

Trump's name can appear 1,000 times? Even more? Tell us, Cash. Tell us, Cash. Here, play this clip. Record high. I appreciate the director reviewing the files. You said you don't know the number of times Trump's name appears in the files, so it could at least be a thousand times.

is that right the number is a total misleading factor we have not released anyone's name that we have not released anyone's name in the fstein files that has not been credible director could it at least be a thousand times every piece of legally permissible information okay you can characterize the numbers however you want it claim you my time director it sounds like if you don't know the number it could at least be a thousand times it's not it's a not is it at least 500 times no is it at least 100 times no then what's the number i don't know the number it's not that. Do you think it might be your job to know the number? My job is to provide for the safety and security of this country. My job is not to engage in political window so you can go out to the

sticks and get your 20-second hit and your fundraising article. Keep going. Reclaiming your time because the people of California are being underserved by your representation. The president is not implicated. Why not release everything that involves me? We have released everything the president and anyone else's side that is credible and lawfully be able to be released. Your fixation on this matter and baseless accusations that I'm hiding child pedophiles is disgusting. Anyone that says that needs to look at the stats alone and go back to the state of California who's receiving the biggest surge in FBI resources through my redeployment because the cities of Los Angeles, San Diego, and San Francisco meeting. Remembering your oath to tell the truth. Did you ever tell Donald Trump his name is in the files?

I have never spoken to President Trump about the Epstein files. Did you ever tell? But Cash Patel is willing to say that Donald Trump is not an FBI informant, despite the fact that the Speaker of the House, Maga Mike Johnson previously said he was. Here, play this clip. Do Donald Trump ever provide information about Jeffrey Epstein as an informant? Donald Trump has not been, and I can only speak for the FBI,

an informant of the FBI. So, Director, you've played this cute shell. Now I want to show you Democratic Congress member, Moskowitz. Here's what he had to say. Congress member Moskowitz says, you've seen the picture of the woman's body with the president's signature. And so you're saying this is a forgery? So I guess is the FBI going to open up a forgery investigation and watch Congress member Moskowitz get Cash Patel to agree a forgery investigation should be open based on Donald Trump now claiming that in the 2003 book that's property of the Epstein estate. Someone planted this over 20 years ago here, play this clip.

Okay, let me attack them. Let me move forward. The president has, you've seen the picture of the woman's body with the writing and the president's signature. The president says that's not his. Okay. The president says it's not his. The Republican colleagues say it's not his. It's not his. Will you be opening up an investigation into the Epstein estate for putting out a fake document with the president's signature linking him to the world's largest pedophile ring? We'll be opening that investigation into that. On what basis? On what basis? They literally put out a fake document according to the president, it's a forgery of the president of the United States signature. That's the basis. Sure, I'll do it. Okay. I look forward to that investigation.

Up. Oh, am I over? Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate your doing. Congress member Moskowitz was really on fire during this hearing as well. And he said, other than Epstein and Maxwell, your testimony here is that the number of names in the Epstein files is zero. And what Congressmember Moskowitz gets Cash Patel to admit to is Cash Patel goes, I'm just talking about the charged names. Well, duh, the only charged names is Epstein and Ghislane Maxwell. Those were the only people who were charged. The issue is the cover-up. It's the uncharged names that should be charged and should be investigated and should be outed. That's the whole point. And Congress member Moskowitz, brilliant cross-examination by him, gets Patel to admit it here, play this clip.

And yesterday, in an answer to Senator Kennedy, you said, the FBI is not in possession of any credible evidence that Epstein traffic girls to anyone but himself. So according to your testimony yesterday and in this committee, according to the evidence the FBI has, the number of names on the list are zero. No, zero. The index has been released and the number of people involved in that trafficking operation. were charged in 2008. Other than Epstein and Jelaine Maxwell,

your testimony in the Senate and here is that according to the evidence you have, the number of other names is zero. That were charged based on credible evidence. Who are the other names? Give me the other names that weren't charged. We are not releasing the names of anyone because the Department of Justice never does that

of anyone that didn't have any credible information. Okay, let me attack them. Let me move forward. Yeah, I thought that was a very effective line. of cross-examination. One more clip right here of Congress member. Let's show Congress Member Raskin at this point. Here's what Congress member Raskin has to say, where he shows clips of Cash Patel calling to release the Epstein vials. Let's play that. Before you join the FBI, you railed against it for covering up Jeffrey Epstein's human

trafficking ring. Let me refresh your memory with this clip. It has Epstein's list. They're sitting on it that doesn't seem like something you should do. You're protecting the world's foremost predator. That seems like an evil thing to do, regardless of who may be embarrassed in the release of that list. Why is the FBI protecting the greatest pederist, the largest scale pederist in human history? Simple, because of who's on that list.

So you finished that December, 2023 interview with a challenge to the FBI and harsh words for Republicans in Congress for not getting the Epstein files out to the public. You can see this clip. Boy pants and let us know who the pedophiles are. Put on your big boy pants and let us know who the pedophiles are. You said you emphasize that the president and FBI director each had complete authority to release Epstein's client list.

You said Epstein's black book is under the quote, direct control of the director of FBI. Look at this clip. This is way off the topic. But who has Jeffrey Epstein's Blackbook? Blackbook? FBI. But who? That is, I mean, there's... Oh, that's under direct control of the director of the FBI. All right. So you were sworn in his director more than 200 days ago. Now the black book is under your direct control. So why haven't you released the names of Epstein's co-conspirators in the rape and sex trafficking of young women and girls? The Rolodex, which is what everybody colloquially

refers to as the Black Book has been released. Oh, no, you're talking about what the journalist got five years ago? No, that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about what you were talking about there. The Black Book under the direct control of FBI director. You know what's wild? I've been using Harry's for the past few weeks, and for the first time in my life, I'm not leaving the bathroom looking like I just wrestled with a cheese grater.

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Did you close the files or keep reading? I have reviewed not the entirety of the files. So I have to- Have you haven't reviewed all of the Epstein files? Personally, no. You're the director of the FBI. This is the largest sex trafficking case the FBI has ever been a part of. Buck stops at the top.

And your testimony today is you have not reviewed all the files. What I've been doing is busy providing the safest country this country is seen in modern U.S. history in historic speed because the men and women of the FBI are given the resources to reduce the homicide rates, to reduce the drug trafficking rate, to reduce the amount of children that are being trafficked. And the number of people who sounds like those children being trafficked, I appreciate the director reviewing the files. You said you don't know the number of times Trump's name. Now, I'll show you a Republican, kind of one of the lone Republicans who have been. really leading the charge here. Thomas Massey, who initiated the discharge petition to get a vote. But Trump said that if any Republicans sign on to this discharge petition, it's a hostile act against the regime. Here's Congress member Massey's questioning. Watch this.

So is the loophole here, or is it your assertion that these victims aren't credible, that the 302s maybe didn't produce credible statements that right? to a probable cause? It's not my assertion, sir. It's the assertion of two different United States Attorney's offices from three separate administrations who investigated those same materials in lifetime. The 302 documents in the FBI's possession?

They reviewed all that, yes, sir. And so have you reviewed those 302 documents that were the victims name the people who victimized them? If I personally know, but the FBI has. So how can you sit here and in front of the Senate and say there are no names? I said, all I named one today. I said, we are not in the practice of the Department of Justice and FBI of releasing victims' names.

That is not what we do. We are also not in the habit of releasing incredible information. That's not what we do. But multiple authorities have looked at the entirety of what we have. Okay. I got to move on here. Were you president? Here's Congress member Massey again saying, so let me get this straight.

You were present when the Attorney General and the influencers released the social, the Trump MAGA influencers held up the binders, the Epstein filed binders back in February. But you're not there with the victims today. So are you going to personally meet the victims? And Patel doesn't agree to personally meet Epstein's victims. Like maybe the FBI will handle it. Well, what?

their hatred of the victims is so freaking clear. Here, watch this. I got to move on here. Were you present when the AG had the White House event when she released the binders to social media influencers? I was, yes. So if you're willing to meet with social media influencers who stood to benefit from the sensational and sad stories of these victims, will you meet with the victims as well? The FBI will meet with anyone who has new information. Will you personally meet with them?

the FBI and the professionals who are handling the cases will. Were you... It's another clip of Thomas Massey, cross-examining Patel. Let's play it. According to victims who cooperated with the FBI in that investigation, these documents in FBI possession, your possession, detail at least 20 men, including Mr. Jess Staley, CEO of Barclays Bank, who Jeffrey Epstein trafficked victims to.

Victims, including minors, such as Virginia Roberts you free, may she rest in peace. That list also includes at least 19 other individuals, one Hollywood producer worth a few hundred million dollars, one royal prince,

one high profile individual in the music industry, one very prominent banker, one high profile government official, one high profile former politician, one owner of a car company in Italy, one rock star, one magician, at least six billionaires,

including a billionaire from Canada. We know these people exist in the FBI files, the files that you control. I don't know exactly who they are, but the FBI does. Have you launched any investigations into any of these people, and have you seen these 302 documents? Sir, I have asked my FBI agents to review the entirety of the Epstein files and bring forth any credible information, and we're working with Congress not only devolve that information

and produce it to you, but any investigations that arise from any credible investigation will be brought. There have been no new materials brought to me launching a new indict. And I thought Congress member Ted Liu was particularly effective as well when he cross-examines Patel and Ted Liu gets Patel again to refuse to answer the direct question yes or no when asked if Epstein had Prince Andrew or Donald Trump on the client list. You'll see, Patel refused to answer. Play this clip. That's literally not how it works. I'm going to move on now and talk about Epstein's client list. You confirmed that exists. Attorney General Pambati confirmed earlier this year that exists.

I just want to ask you a simple question. Is Prince Andrew on Epstein's client list? The material related to Prince Andrew has been made public. Is Prince Andrew on the client list? We have released the index of names that were in Jeffrey Epstein. Is Donald Trump on Epstein's client list? The index has been released. and the index will speak for itself. So I'm just to say, America is a huge red flag.

The FBI director could not answer whether Donald Trump was on Epstein. Gentleman's time has expired. I cannot recognize as the gentleman. But then Ted Liu says, are there any photos of Donald Trump with underage girls in the files? Watch this. But in general question, as you know, Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein were friends. There are, of course, photos showing Donald Trump together with Epstein, correct? I don't have the entirety of the photographs, but I think.

they've been photographed in public together. All right. Are there any photos showing Donald Trump with girls of an uncertain age? No. How do you know that? Because that information would have been brought to light by multiple administrations and FBI investigators over the course of the last 20 years. Well, you know what? That's just not true because no one knew about the creepy birthday message that Donald Trump wrote to Jeffrey Epstein until the Wall Street Journal disclosed it. And then all of a sudden, the Epstein estate provides it to Congress. Certainly, you weren't there at the search.

You don't know what Epstein may or may not have done with those photographs even prior to the search. Maybe someone has it. Maybe the Epstein estate has it. You raise a great point. So I'm going to ask you, have you asked to talk to Michael Wolfe? You raise a great point. I haven't personally asked to talk to Michael Wolf.

But the FBI, I'll get back to you if the FBI specifically has ever. About 100 hours of testimony of Jeffrey Epstein would, wouldn't be. good for the FBI to interview Michael Wolf? I'm not saying they haven't. I just don't know. Has FBI subpoenaed the tapes that Michael Wolf has conducted of Jeffrey Epstein? I don't know. All right. So if you could provide us an answer, that'll be terrific.

Here's a particularly powerful moment where Congresswoman Jayapal is questioning Patel. Let's play. 16 years old, are you going to cover up? Are you going to continue to cover up for the rich and powerful men, including those that might beyond this committee? I can yell soon, Mr. Chairman, but I don't want to yell about this. It's how it belongs to the gentleman from New Jersey. Now, Cash Patel claims he doesn't even know who Dylan Roof is, the shooter, the killer,

the terrorist in the Charleston church shooting, targeting the African American church, killing nine African Americans in Bible study. And Dylan Roof, far right-wing ideology said he was doing. doing it for because of his anti-black views. Watch Congresswoman Kamlager Dove question Cash Patel, who says he doesn't even know who Dylan Roof is. Here, play this clip. So Dylan Roof, who followed white supremacist propaganda, murdered nine black parishioners

in Charleston in 2015. Do you deny this? I'm sorry. Dylan Ruth. Roof? Roof. Can you give me some more information? You're head of the FBI.

You probably know this. If you don't know, that's fine. If you can give me a reminder, I've got a lot in front of me. It was national news. Robert. Another great moment where Cash Patel is questioning, where Cash Patel is getting questioned by Congress member, Lou, let's play it. Run out credible leads.

And in the Epstein file, was there that creepy birthday message that Donald Trump had written to Epstein? That's what I was trying to tell you. You raise a great point. The estate of Jeffrey Epstein has a voluminous amount of information that they have not released before. Okay, so that's great. So would it be great if FBI subpoenaed the state of Jeffrey Epstein for all that information?

The estate is under no obligation to provide that material even pursuant to a subpoena. That's a great point. Yeah, that's just, that's just false. Okay. It just false. You're the fricking FBI. You can subpoena the information from this state, and you better do that. That's literally not how it works.

I'm going to move on now and talk about Epstein's client list. And finally, here's the last clip of Congress member Moskowitz. I want to show you, let's play it. I want to caution my colleagues on, you know, one-sided violence in this country. We just heard that there were no riots on the right. We're literally sitting in the building where there was a giant riot by supporters of the president, the right. We also heard that only leftists, okay, have said that Trump is a Nazi in 2016, the current vice president of the United States said,

Trump is either a cynical asshole or he's America's Hitler. And so this is the problem. Like, I don't want to have to say this garbage, but you want me to sit here and get painted with one brush, the whole left. No, no, there are extremes on the left, and there are extremes on the right. And we collectively should tackle that.

But to come here and just look at us and say, we all support what's going on in the extremes is why we can't solve anything in this building. Well, there you have it, folks. Let me know what you think. Hit subscribe. Let's get to 6 million. Thanks for watching. The truth is more important than ever.

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