The MeidasTouch Podcast - Whistleblowers with Rebekah Jones and Stephanie Wolkoff

Episode Date: February 12, 2021

It's the whistleblower episode! The Meidas Brothers catch you up on the latest with the Senate Impeachment trial. They then welcome Geographer Rebekah Jones, who gained notoriety after being fired for calling attention to the corruption of Governor Ron DeSantis' COVID data. The brothers then discuss the criminal investigations into Donald Trump in the state of Georgia. Later, Stephanie Winston Wolkoff, former best friend and advisor to Melania Trump, joins the show and shares never-before-heard tapes of the former First Lady. As the brothers wrap up the show, they welcome Heather Gardner who announces her new Meidas Media Network original series, "The Divided State of America with Heather Gardner." Watch the debut episode here! Buy Stephanie Winston Wolkoff's book, Melania and Me: The Rise and Fall of My Friendship with the First Lady anywhere books are sold. Thank you for making the MeidasTouch Podcast the top podcast in North America on the PodBoard100 Charts! Please keep up the momentum by sharing this podcast with a friend and giving us a 5-star rating! --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/meidastouch/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/meidastouch/support Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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A well-marbled ribeye sizzling on the barbecue that was carefully selected by an Instacart shopper and delivered to your door. A well-marbled ribeye you ordered without even leaving the kiddie pool. Whatever groceries your summer calls for, Instacart has you covered. Download the Instacart app and enjoy $0 delivery fees on your first three orders. Service fees, exclusions, and terms apply. Instacart. Groceries that over-deliver. Welcome to the Midas Touch Podcast. Ben Micellis here, joined by my younger brothers, Brett Micellis and Jordy Micellus. We have an incredible show for you today. We're going to be delving into impeachment. We're going to be talking about criminal investigations in Georgia and particularly in Fulton County into election fraud by who? By

Donald Trump and his conspiracy and racketeering and his very imperfect criminal phone call that he made. And we have such incredible guests. We have geographer and scientist Rebecca Jones, who will be talking about her ordeal with the Florida governor, Governor DeSantis, who has retaliated against her in her role as a scientist who was speaking the truth, getting out the true and accurate COVID data. She was fired from her job. She's been retaliated against in heinous ways. Florida law enforcement showed up in December to her home with guns aimed at her children, aimed at her husband, aimed at her family. She was arrested recently.

She was sent to jail for a day. She had COVID while she was in jail. She's been enduring it all for speaking the truth. And we're going to hear her whole story. And then we also have another whistleblower, the episode of Whistleblowers, Stephanie Winston Walkoff. By the way, that's the title of the episode, Brett.

The Whistleblower episode. I love that. Stephanie Winston Walkoff, who was way, that's the title of the episode, Brett. The whistleblower episode. I love that. Stephanie Winston Walkoff, who was Melania's BFF, who was in the Trump White House, who worked for Melania, who worked for Pick, the Presidential Inauguration Commission. She saw the unlawful conduct she spoke out against that she was terminated. She wrote a tell all book and the Department of Justice sued her. But we have some major Midas touch announcements, don't we, Brett and Jordy? We do. That's for sure. Are we talking about Jordy's tweet or the other thing?

Well, before we get into my tweet, actually, Ben, you're looking sharp today, man. You got the suit on, the tie. You're looking good. You like that because people don't know this about me. So it's the first time I'm letting anybody know. But I am what I'm not doing Midas Touch. I am a lawyer. And I had a deposition today that I was thinking. At least one time in episode you have to mention. And I love it. I respect it. So I'm still in, you know, I still, when I do Midas Touch, I'm still a plaintiff's lawyer. I represent victims who have been injured in catastrophic

accidents and people who have been victims of horrible wrongdoings. And it's a passion of mine and I have depositions today. That's why I'm wearing. You're a very, very, very impressive brother. And so we are not the announcement is not about Jordy's tweet. Speaking of whistleblowers about Josh Hawley having a tiny whistle whistle so there i said it we are not talking about the heat that jordy is getting no chipping away at jordy's approval numbers absolutely not so right before we jumped on recording this i tweeted out uh you could just tell josh holly has a tiny pecker there i saidly, the responses have been, that's so funny. Oh my God, like 99%. But then there are a few like, this is beneath you, Jordy. And to those people, you don't know me.

That's why you come to us for the hard-hitting political analysis, everybody. But beyond the hard-hitting political analysis, we have a major announcement as Ben alluded to. We have officially launched the Midas Media Network and we are so thrilled to share it with you. So for all those wondering out there, Midas Touch will still be the home for all the political ads that you know and love. What the Midas Media Network will be is it's the home for all of our entertainment projects. So this very podcast that you're listening to, television shows, digital series, documentaries, films, all of that is coming at you on the Midas Media Network and later in the show. And the first big announcement, the first digital series that we'll be releasing, we're going to announce that later on the show. It's with fan favorite Heather Gardner. If you follow us, you know Heather's amazing videos,

but you're going to have to wait to the end of the show to get the details on what we're doing with Heather. Make sure to follow our new Twitter account at Midas Network. And for now, let's dive right into it. Let's talk about impeachment, guys. As we record, it's the third day of the impeachment trial. The House impeachment managers have rested their case against Donald Trump. And guys, I'm so impressed by the job these impeachment managers are doing. I mean, every single one of them has been doing an excellent job making the case against Trump, from Representative Raskin to Lew to Swalwell to Plaskett. I mean, these are true American heroes and they're doing just a phenomenal, phenomenal job. And you're really seeing on display true competence in the House impeachment

managers versus the incompetence of Trump's legal team. And the impeachment managers, they made it clear Trump incited the violence. He refused to intervene to stop the attack. He's not shown any remorse for his actions. And he represents a clear and present danger to our democracy, not just in the past, going forward. Right now, he still represents a threat to our democracy. This is about holding Trump accountable for one of the most serious betrayals of a president's oath ever. And we need to ensure it never happens ever again. I think Congressman Raskin gave an incredible, impassioned opening statement. He's been great. They've all been great. But one of the particular lines is when Representative Raskin explains why this is different than just a private citizen shouting fire, you know, outside.

There's this kind of common example, you know, can you yell fire in a movie theater? And can you create panic in mass hysteria? And when does something go from free speech to being incredibly dangerous? But Representative Raskin breaks it down in this clip that makes it clear that what Trump did is totally unlawful. Much worse than someone who falsely shouts fire in a crowded theater. It's more like a case where the town fire chief who's paid to put out fires sends a mob not to yell fire in a crowded theater, but to actually set the theater on fire. And who then when the fire alarms go off and the calls start flooding into the fire department, asking for help does nothing but sit back, encourage the mob to continue its rampage and watch the fire spread on TV with glee

and delight. I thought that was a brilliant take on that issue. Absolutely. I mean, Raskin has just been crushing it. Yeah. At the end of the day, there is a criminal process that should and I hope will take place holding Donald Trump criminally guilty and sending him to jail for this action. But the political question before the Senate is, should Donald Trump be entitled to hold office again? And that example of really now the fire chief wants to continue to be the fire chief after creating the fire and encouraging the fire. And he's saying, hey, I should go be the fire chief again. That's what this really comes down to, which is no, he shouldn't be the fire chief. Donald Trump took an oath to protect and defend the United States Constitution. Donald Trump in that way is even different than the private

citizens who don't take an oath to the Constitution. And so if the question before the Republicans is, is what Donald Trump did a breach of that oath? It's a very simple question and a very simple answer. But you have this traitorous GOP, so traitorous that 15 GOP senators didn't even show up today, didn't even attend the impeachment hearing, which raises an, oh, it's so disgraceful. And they have to, when they're sworn in as jurors in the trial, basically they have to sign under penalty of perjury that they will uphold their constitutional oaths. And it's something that they're clearly not willing to do. And it's because the GOP is cowards. When confronted with their own deceit, they run away from it every single time. Donald Trump is going to go down in history. He will be remembered for being the president who incited an insurrection, a terrorist attack against his own people.

And it looks like the entire Republican Party, save for about five voices, is eager to join him on that page of the history book. And they should be shamed forever after doing this. I think some of the most chilling moments from this impeachment trial, we make videos, we see a lot of clips. There were some never before seen clips shown that sent a chill down my spine. One of these clips was Capitol officer Eugene Goodman saving Mitt Romney's life. We already knew this Capitol officer Goodman was a hero. Now we see in this footage for the first time, and I think it was the first time Romney saw it too, by the way, of Romney walking in the direction of the insurrectionists, not knowing really the situation as it was at the time. And officer Goodman takes him and redirects him and sends him the opposite direction. And literally, I mean, imagine if these people got to Mitt Romney, it would have been absolutely

horrifying. I literally have the chills of you just even recapping it. When I saw that video, I was just stunned. It was, it was really amazing. And we saw, everyone saw that first clip of him redirecting the mob, somebody somewhere else. But to your point, no one saw the Romney footage until the trial. And Brett, do we have the video? There was another video that I hadn't seen before. It was a man outside the Capitol, an insurrectionist with the bullhorn reading off of the Trump tweets. Do we have that clip? My kids didn't have the courage to do what should have been done to protect our country

and our Constitution, giving states a chance to certify a corrected set of facts, not the flawed ones or inaccurate ones which they were asked to previously certify. U.S. demands the truth. That guy was reading the direct words of Donald Trump's tweets on a bullhorn throughout the day. And so one of the arguments from the Trump side of things was, how could you prove that his words were the thing that incited them? They acted on their own. And the Democrats go, OK, here's a man with a bullhorn echoing the words of the president and the United States as they're attacking, taking orders, taking his cue. You know what I think that bugged me too? The defense. This is what Trump's defense accused the Democrats of. Trump's defense accused the Democrats of glorifying violence because the

Democrats played the video of the violent insurrectionist attempting to kill the Capitol police officers and attempting to kill lawmakers. They were blaming the Democrats. They were blaming the prosecutors for playing the evidence of their client's commission of the act. And if I don't know what the hell is white privilege, what is such a warped, fucked up view of the legal justice system? It's that bullshit argument right there, because I can never imagine in any other context that argument being made. And we're not just seeing this, Brett, these absurd arguments, this absurd deceit and traitorous behavior in Washington, D.C., we have Trumpism as governors. We have Trumpism as as legislatures, as representatives. And I think no one is taking the mantle of trying to emulate and be a Trump mini-me clone, quite like Governor DeSantis, governor of Florida.

And we're about to speak to a guest, Rebecca Jones, who knows Governor DeSantis more than anyone. She's been on the side of being retaliated against Governor DeSantis for speaking the truth. I want to welcome to the Midas Touch podcast, Rebecca Jones. Rebecca, you have an incredible story, a nightmarish story, a story of hope, though, a story of courage, kind of all in one. And I just think before we get into it, you know, there's a lot of people, of course, who know about the raid that took place of your home. Rebecca Jones is a data scientist. She helped expose

that Governor DeSantis and others in Florida were manipulating the COVID numbers to suit their agenda to try to reopen in a very unhealthy way, causing death. So we know about the raid. We know about the recent arrest. But I just want to take people back to the beginning. And Rebecca, if anything I'm saying is inaccurate. Can I correct you on the first thing? Correct me right away. I am not a data scientist. So we got to correct not just me, but we got to correct Wikipedia. We got to correct Google.

Wikipedia calls me an American geographer. That is how I'm listed. It may say data scientist, but what do you to, what do you, what do you characterize yourself as? What, what, what? I'm a geographer, through and through. So you went to Syracuse University. You actually went to Syracuse around the same time as Brett, which is unbelievable.

You went to college together. I noticed that we were there at the same time. That's, it's pretty wild. I was there for one year before I transferred to USC and I was there in 08, 09. I believe you were there in 07. That's so crazy. There was there for one year before I transferred to USC and I was there in 08, 09. I believe you were there in 07. That's so crazy. There was some overlap. And I was still, I think, technically in TRF 08, 09. So it's entirely possible that we had a class together. That's so crazy. All right. So you graduate, you graduate from Syracuse. Again, correct me if I'm wrong,

because I have a feeling I'm going to be, but you go to Louisiana State University where you get a master's, and then you go to graduate school at Florida State University at the Department of Geography, where you become a geographer, not a data scientist, correct? Yes. I think it's very odd the way that I've been pitted as kind of a data scientist, because every scientist works with data that does not inherently make every scientist in their field also a data scientist. You know, there are people who collect information about, you know, field samples for, you know, random surveying and things like that. That's data, just they're not a data scientist. When I think of data scientists, I think of like people who work on computational algorithms to enhance like computer

speed and and things like that things i would never know how to do and so i don't want to be you know like co-opting their field um and being you know telling everybody i'm a data scientist when i'm really not i'm you know if I think geographer was confusing for people because then they're like well wait what does a geographer do exactly and geographers can do a very wide range of things and so that was too confusing for the press to try to explain to people and so I just got broken down you know calling me a scientist was apparently too offensive to a lot of men so So I had to have like a, you know, an adjective in there, sort of data scientist. And that's kind of how that happened. But no, I'm not.

But while you were a geographer, you were assisting in the creation of geospatial presentations of hurricanes within Florida, which is very data driven, though. Yes. But, you know, doctors work with data that doesn't make them data scientists either. But I worked with the Department of Health as a researcher and analyst working on health risks and safety risks than their own special kind of response unit for emergencies. Obviously hurricanes are a big deal. So during a hurricane, I would help with evacuation planning for hospitals. So let's say we have a hundred patients who need like end stage, like renal care. And there's only 18 hospitals within three hours that have that.

So we send 18 there, but we also need to figure out where the other 82 are. So then we have to start contacting hospitals further away, hospitals out of states, organize those transfers, maximize the efficiency of those transfers, make sure they're not going through a hazard zone, reroute, you know, military delivery based on debris fields, you know, from satellite imagery and things like that. So a lot of pre and during and post disaster work. But we also had hepatitis outbreak while I was there that I worked with and toxic algal blooms that we worked with and all kinds of environmental health issues, which is why I was originally brought on. And then, you know, COVID happened.

And then COVID happens. And then it's generally described as you're in charge of the COVID dashboard. But what does that really mean? So I started asking actually Florida in January to allow me to build something that was like a public information portal, just a place on our website, even if it was just embedded within a web page that said, this is what we know. This is what we're doing to prep, here's where our testing resources are, you know, here's what we've seen so far in our state. And, you know, for weeks it was, we don't need it because it's not going to be a problem here, which was the messaging from the very top down. And then for a few weeks after that, when we were monitoring something like 500 and some people across the whole state, it was, well, we don't want to start a panic. And then for, you know, I had to deal with that for weeks.

And finally I get the go ahead. So I built- When's this around? What time do you get the go ahead? March 12th, I got the go ahead. So I end up, I'm sorry, I'm kind of hot in here. I end up building the entire data system structure. I, you know I published all the APIs. I did all the data updates. I designed the dashboard, every single piece of it that was just carefully put in. So every little touch to it was what I did because know, push something out to the public. And it kind of became this massive project that took a whole other like life of its own almost for a couple of months before I was fired. would probably want in all states to have transparency, to have the data sets out there, to have the cases out there, to know how to address which areas need more assistance, similar to what you were doing in your other work with hurricanes. I mean, treating this as a true national crisis. And then at some point in time, though, you learn that Governor DeSantis and the health department is manipulating the data?

Um, I didn't learn of it. I was asked to do it. And, um, we were, you know, everything was starting to calm down a little bit. I was looking to have forward to having my first weekend off in months. Um, my parents had lost their entire house just two weeks before in a tornado. So it was a lot of stress built up. And I was like, finally, I have trained my backup person. I can take two days off. Thank God, because I needed it. And that Friday night, right before I was supposed to have that weekend off, I got a call from the director of disease control for the state saying, hey, so DeSantis convened a panel of business people who decided they want to reopen the state in a week for Monday, and we need to come up with a reopening

criteria and a way to measure it and how we're going to report it. We need to add it to the dashboard. We need to add it to our data fees, and we need that Sunday. And I don't know how many people listening have a lot of familiarity with something like that, but that's not a lot of time. Uh, we didn't get much sleep. I worked with the epidemiology team and their data person who is a data scientist, um, to try to figure out what we were going to measure, how we were going to measure it, how we were going to report it. Um, what the like score card that we originally talked about would look like.

So has this county met all of these different benchmarks in order to be reopened? And we spent all weekend on that. And when I presented it to the governor's people for the first time that Sunday, they were printing and stapling the already done plan that was supposedly based on data they had never seen right in front of me. And our data did not match or look actually anything like that plan. And so that most of that afternoon was spent with them changing the way we measured things, exempting rural counties from criteria altogether, which is a policy decision. I made the meek kind of suggestion of, well, what's the point of having a criteria? Half the counties

don't have to meet it. But it's still a policy decision and not really my place to make that decision. But when all the pushing and shoving didn't result in the exact set of data they wanted. They wanted me to go in and start changing the numbers for each county. So they looked like they met those criteria. So like changing the percent positivity in a county from 18 to 10 or 20 to 10%. And I said, no. And a few days later I was taken off the project. And not only are you taken off the project, but eventually you're terminated from your job. Yeah. Two weeks later, I was fired the first business day after I asked my boss how to file a whistleblower complaint.

So you asked to file a whistleblower complaint because you learned that they are manipulating the data. You have the correct data sets working with the epidemiologist, you know what the true data are, because they have this business criteria. They want to use a fake data set and to lie to the public. You ask, hey, this is unlawful what's taking place. You ask, how do I file a whistleblower complaint? And then you are terminated from your job. Yep. Friday afternoon,

I asked my boss how to file it. Monday morning, I was fired. So before I even got the chance to do that. And how do we get from there, you know, from there, you know, one of the next major touch points that we all know about you is we see that horrific raid December 7th, where Florida Department of Law Enforcement agents come into your house. You have a two-year-old daughter, 11-year-old son. Your husband's in the house. They come with their guns drawn. Thank God you had that camera there to tape it because they probably would have lied about that data set too and claim that they didn't do that, which is what they were trying to do. So what happens in those intervening months? Discover the magic of Bad MGM Casino, where the excitement is always on deck. Pull up a seat and check out a wide variety of table games with a live dealer. From roulette

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Visit BetMGM.com for terms and conditions. 19 plus to wager, Ontario only. Please gamble responsibly. If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. Well, the very short version of it is that I tried to not get involved with the media circus. An article came out that day I was fired and I had no idea it was coming out.

The reporter had emailed my work email asking for a quote, but as soon as they fire you, you don't have email access. So I never forgot it. I never knew it was happening. I just saw it come out and then I got flooded with calls. I made the reporter actually take the story down and he kind of made the very astute point. Well, if you're getting calls about it, that, you know, cat's out of the box. And I didn't talk to any members of the media or the press for days. I just wanted it to go away. I figured they would move on to the next big thing. And it didn't happen that way. And then without me ever doing an interview, Ron DeSantis went on live television in front of the vice

president of the United States and defamed me, questioned my credentials, insinuated I was mentally unstable, and went on this whole rant about how great Florida had done and how, you know, why aren't people apologizing to him for worrying as if you need to ever apologize for worrying. And that kind of left me with no real motivation to try to hide because I had been thrown into it at this point. My privacy was shot. All the six-figure job offers that I had before I got fired just disappeared. And I decided to just step forward, focus the conversation on what mattered, which was the data and the way that it was changing and the potential risk to people. And that was it. And as things evolved after I was gone, I saw all of the things that we had modeled and warned them about as kind of the early indicators that things were not so great.

And people didn't seem to trust the dashboard that I had built for the state. So I decided to build a whole new one. spent all day every day running that for months. And that really was not pleasant for DeSantis because everyone knows now that Florida, what happened to them over the summer was just catastrophic and completely avoidable. And it's really unfortunate. And I was a very vocal person criticizing these things. And reporting data, the state was still reporting buried somewhere in a PDF that nobody would ever have the patience to go through and scrape and look at. And I brought that center focus, things like long-term care facility deaths, prison deaths, things like that nobody wanted to pay attention to. And after a few months of that, I co-founded the COVID Monitor, which is the national tracking system for cases in K-12 schools.

Florida did not want to release publicly any school's data whatsoever. They actually threatened several school districts. The Department of Health and Governor's staff threatened them, saying that if you report any data about school, we will sue you. And luckily, there were a few districts who more or less said, fuck that and did it anyways. And then after a few started, then a few more than a few other ones. And so with the COVID monitor, I helped create this national data set that pulled in all of that data. And after almost a month of schools being open in the state, they finally had to cave and start reporting school data. And that, that did not make DeSantis happy either because as of

the last data they've released, they've had more than 65,000 school cases. And that's, that's a lot. And so I've just kind of been this symbolic thorn in his side. I think I to him represent this voice of people that he doesn't feel like he should have to bother with. Like, who am I as just a scientist to torpedo his approval ratings? And the accusation that he makes against you, you know, which is initially what they claim the warrant was for, but they didn't find anything. The accusation is, is that you or someone, you know, hacked into a, one of the email databases and sent a mass text message telling people to tell the truth basically is the accusation. I've never even heard of

one that crime before, but they didn't find anything when they did the raid. Um, but then they recently issued an arrest warrant, even though they didn't find anything in the raid. Um, and, and you were in prison, um, as recent as January for 15 hours, but you contracted COVID in jail. So it was. I actually didn't contract it in jail. I got sick a few days before. So the week that I ended up driving down there, we were kind of celebrating a small victory because as soon as the raid happened, we started moving to sue the state. And we did. And by doing that, we kind of, you know, poked the police beehive a little bit. And we won a small battle in court against them where the judge had basically said, we were arguing, you can't just come in and steal people's stuff if you don't actually plan on prosecuting anybody.

That's just theft. And the judge said, well, I want to know what the state's attorney's office is planning on doing. Because if they have no intention of ever charging, like, somebody with a crime, then they can't just take the stuff and have to return it. The next day, the police issued the arrest warrant, not the state's attorney's office, the police. And they said that was Friday when I found out about it. And that was also the day I started feeling sick. And they said I had to turn myself in by the end of the weekend, or they would have people come up here and come to my house and further terrorize my family, which I was, we moved here to have a place where there were no memories of armed police with guns in our house. And so I was not about to put my kids, my family through that. So I said I would drive down.

And that was the plan Friday night. And Friday night, I was so cold that night and shaking and sweating that I actually thought the heat had gone out in her whole house for hours. And apparently I was the only one who felt that way. And so I thought maybe I was just stress sick. I get that a lot. Like if there's like a crap ton of stress going on, which unfortunately this year has happened quite a few times for me, then sometimes it's just, I get sick for like a few hours or a day.

And so when I woke up Saturday and I was pretty out of it and, know I had a fever and just I felt awful I asked my lawyer is there any way they'll give me like a couple more days to you know get tested for COVID to see if this is just me being temporarily a cold or something more serious and he asked and they said no and um so I had to drive two days down to Florida, sick with COVID. And I got tested at the jail and tested positive there. And no contract tracing. No, no, they still haven't called me. I don't know if they ever will, but, you know, I tested positive in Florida in a jail and nobody's called to like see where I was while I was down there. And so that brings us to today.

I mean, we see in the Superbowl and in Tampa Bay, we have, it looked like Mardi Gras on steroids. It looked like there were more people in Tampa Bay. It looked like there was no COVID. I mean, when you look at those images, you're like, it was like, for me being in California, it was like looking at another universe entirely and just being like, what is happening here? Yeah, it looks pretty bad. First of all, I'll say there is no such thing as Mardi Gras on crack because if such a thing existed, the planet would just implode.

And I find that highly offensive considering that Mardi Gras is just a few days away and I am a South Louisiana girl. But yes, it was Mardi Gras with a disproportionate number of white people and a lot less color and fun it was just you know a lot of drunk people crammed into it close quarters which sometimes mardi gras can be most of the time i said it there were no beads involved and there's no beads involved it does not warrant a comparison to mardi gras yeah you need you need beads for mardi

gras ben come on yeah you get well you figure it's an explosion of color all over the place different bright colors everybody's smiling and laughing having the time um sometimes people get into fights right in front of you and it's weird and um you're just kind of supposed to be like to the side and forget that happened but so let's say it was a it was a trump rally trans yes there we go much more resembling a trump indoor like rally yes that's what i gotta i gotta work on the uh the analysis like your demographics and your colors are already right um a lot of those people aren't from tampa um obviously there's probably a lot of chiefs fans and a lot of people who just go to super bowls because they're rich and then they can do that kind of thing um and they're going to go back to

wherever it is that they came from and so a lot of the resulting cases from that exposure will be scattered all over across the country um but a lot of people who are infected, like we came here and are here, I don't live in Florida anymore. It's still hard. Came to Tampa. I have no idea what's going to happen afterwards. I mean, testing has kind of fallen by the wayside the last month or so of COVID. We're not doing as much of it. Um, certainly not bringing in new people to be tested. They're retesting a lot of people and, um, well, I guess have to wait and see, but I'm hoping that the giant event that was Superbowl that pulled in people

from all over the country, um, without masks and giant parties in the street doesn't end up getting too many people killed. What do you think DeSantis' endgame is here? Like, what is he, what's he doing? I mean, you know, it obviously to the outsider just looks incredibly evil, looks incredibly, you know. Like why, if you know what you're doing is killing your people would you not do it kind of thing exactly yeah he always had presidential aspirations i think he hates me in a large part because i've kind of been an issue with that by no means have i stopped it

um he could very much get the primary and be president and i'd have to leave the country um but uh i think that that is his hope. And I think he also realizes that if he has any chance of winning reelection in Florida, he's going to have to get Trump's base. They're kind of homeless right now in politics. Trump's living in Florida. Trump and DeSantis are going to be campaigning together. We know that the Trump effect pulls a lot of people out to vote that otherwise wouldn't. And so in a governor's race, it could be reelected to pull in those people, even if he kills 50,000 people. It wouldn't matter. What's next for you? Oh, God, I wish I knew. Trying to just get my head above water, I think, just so I can catch a breath.

I mean, I moved on from Florida. That's part of what moving here was, was to get away from that. But clearly Florida has not moved on from me. So unfortunately, I'm still gonna have to deal with these people, the bad people, the state people for a while. I hope not. I hope something changes there. I'm kind of radioactive now. As a government employee, I committed myself to public service for the rest of my life. But in an administration that's entire message is unity. I don't think it's clear how, given my partisan fan base, how I would fit into that, which is quite strange because I kind of criticized Joe Biden for his very irresponsible school plan because

his plan was very similar to Trump's, which is just open the schools, follow these safety guides and everything will be okay. And it's not considering the data that's available and not considering that the vast majority of schools in this country do not have just excess funds sitting around to be able to pay to make those kinds of upgrades that a lot of the places that can't pay have already been open for a long time and there's no incentive for them to change and become safer now that they have there are a lot of things that just really seem to be pushed aside so that we can open schools because if we can't open schools and we can't kick people

off of welfare or off of unemployment and everybody wants to kick everybody off welfare unemployment so it's complicated and um i was really kind of shocked at the reaction that my fellow d's had for me being critical of a policy that was almost identical to trump's and i've always said you know i'm not a person who's going to go after somebody because he's a Republican. I worked under DeSantis for years and never had a problem. It was the unethical and immoral things that were being done that made me speak out. And I would do that no matter who's my governor. And I think a lot of people, or my president, a lot of people didn't believe me. But then when I did, instead of, you know, being respected for having that stance, it seems like I pissed some people off.

So I don't know. I'm too. Yeah. The word radioactive was actually given to me by somebody who knows the Biden team and was helping me look for a job. And I think that's right. But maybe I can land something in an advocacy role, working for a nonprofit, maybe science education or, you know, pushing for science-based policy reform, working with an organization that lobbies for better environmental regulations, or for better health regulations, women's rights, equal rights, anything related to that, I'd be on board in a heartbeat. But I think a lot of people are just kind of waiting back and seeing how this all goes first. So there are people who are confronted with a decision that you had to make, and they often don't do what's courageous.

They often go with the flow, cover it up and don't do the strong, the young future scientists, the people who are now in Syracuse, who are looking at your story and what you've been through and the courage that you've shown, but also what you've been through, you know, what do you tell them? A job is not worth your soul. I got fired before I was famous, before I came forward. And I was already on the way out before any of that happened. I was looking, like I said, I had other job offers because even if I hadn't publicly come forward, my plan was to file a whistleblower complaint without my identity being revealed. I wasn't going to be a part of it. I was not going to play a part in misleading

people to get people killed, to save some money for some rich people. I wasn't going to do it. I was not going to play a part in misleading people to get people killed, to save some money for some rich people. I wasn't going to do it. And the amount of people that have left that agency since then is to me a sign that there may not be people who are willing to put their name out there yet, but there's a whole lot of people who aren't willing to participate in what's going on either. And it's a struggle. It's not easy. It's been anything but easy. But I think if you have that moral instinct that something is wrong, you have to do whatever it is that helps you sleep at night. Because in the end, none of the people you work for or with are going to have to pay for that you are. So job is never worth your soul.

Rebecca Jones, thank you for coming on the Midas Touch podcast and sharing your insights with us today. Of course. Welcome back to the Midas Touch podcast. What an interview that was with Rebecca Jones. What a story. We're wishing her all the best. Now let's talk about another investigation that's going on here, you guys. So it looks like Trump is under a criminal investigation in Fulton County, Georgia, regarding his call with the Secretary of State in his attempt to find me the 11,780 votes. What's funny about this is while the other investigation or while the trial rather is going on, one of the arguments that Trump's own lawyers made was if he did something criminal, then arrest him, then bring him up on criminal charges.

And Georgia said, OK, we could do that. And so Fulton County, Georgia, is launching the investigation. It was revealed in a letter from District Attorney Fannie Willis to state officials asking them to preserve any documents potentially related to the 2020 general election. News of this investigation comes just two days after it was revealed that Georgia's secretary of state's office had launched its own investigation into Trump's phone calls to state officials. And here's what they're investigating Trump for solicitation of election fraud, making a false statements to local and government bodies, conspiracy, racketeering, violation of oath of office and any involvement in violence or threats related to the election administration. And impeachment at this point may be the least of Trump's worries by the time it's all said and done. A lot of investigations into Donald Trump that are taking place and will be taking place. And one of these investigations

center around the misappropriation of funds and funds being funneled to the Donald Trump and the Trump organization through the presidential inauguration committee or PIC. At the heart of this is an individual who the Trumps tried to frame, Stephanie Winston-Walkoff, who will be joining the Midas Touch podcast. Stephanie, welcome to the Midas Touch podcast. How are you, Ben? Good. I guess congratulations are in order for you. I mean, it's absurd for me to think that you were a defendant in a civil case by the DOJ on behalf of First Lady Melania, suing you for violating a phantom non-disclosure agreement, Bill Barr essentially acting as Melania's personal prosecutor, which was utterly absurd. But I could only imagine what you were going through with the

power of the United States government literally suing you because you wrote this tell-all memoir that just spoke the truth. But congratulations on that win. And I hope there are more wins and more transparency to come. Thank you so much. That was a big win and it was a good feeling. So you're embroiled right now as a witness because you were a witness to a lot of the Trump misconduct, a lot of misconduct around the presidential inauguration committee. And there are a ton of investigations taking place. I know some that you can and can't talk about, but we will get into that. But I want to go back to the roots of where this all started for you. So Stephanie, it was through your role at the Lincoln Center, through your professional work with Vogue, you became very close friends with Melania.

Is that accurate? I did. And then over time, you had this role where you were, you know, one of the top people at the presidential inauguration committee throwing these galas. And so you went from throwing these events with with Vogue and at the Lincoln Center, you know, in these these lavish New York events to being in politics, which I don't think you were ever involved in. How did that happen? Well, you know, I think coming from the world of Vogue and planning the Met Gala, the East Coast Oscars, overseeing Mercedes-Benz Fashion Week, you know, over 500 shows in a week, twice a year. I guess, you know, my resume was good. My loyalty to Melania as a friend was there.

And when Donald got elected, you know, they jumped on that and, you know, asked me if I would be involved in helping produce the inauguration. After Donald won, were you there the next day and were you having dinner with them? Well, I was actually at the Hilton that evening and I was, you know, I was texting Melania. I was like, people are leaving. Are you guys coming or not? But no, I did. I saw her a couple of days later. We spoke about, you know, I was so excited for them. I really was. And when I spoke to her about getting together, the next time I saw her, which was two days later, was when I was told there was a family meeting. And at the family meeting, my name came up. And is it in connection with that family meeting that eventually a decision is made for you to be to have some involvement in the presidential inauguration committee.

Melania gave me the whisper behind closed doors and then but the official asked how to come from Ivanka. Got it. So that's the hierarchy. It has to go from Melania to Ivanka to you. You know, when it came to anything having to do with the presidential inauguration, Ivanka was top of the line. And sometimes just for people listening out there, we may hear the term pick, which is just presidential inauguration committee. And so how did it go from a few events? I mean, I think that were on your portfolio to eventually you were pretty much running the whole show at some point, huh? Well, you know, it went from two balls and an event to 18 events. And when I went in, I was told I would be overseeing the thematic elements of the presidential inauguration

committee. And that seemed to me like something that I could do. Now, I'm not speaking about as far as managing and executing and producing shows. I'm talking about the amount of people involved and the type of people involved were people that I had never before had witnessed nor experienced nor had any type of conversations with. I mean, this is a whole different world. And so I didn't know what I was getting myself into when I said yes. So it was regardless of the amount of events. But what took over was when we were told there were two, two hour live broadcasts. And all of a sudden it's like we need a broadcast team. And but thank God, you know, came to broadcast. Mark Burnett came to the rescue and swooped right in. And he was there to help us all out and brought in, you know, thousands and thousands of people. And he had some amazing ideas. And, you know, so we were able to put all of this together in such a short period of time. Now, you mentioned Mark Burnett's name. Now, I,

it's just good because my lack of research in this area, although I hope I've read it, I've never really heard Mark Burnett's name kind of intimately associated with this, with the pick, with the presidential inauguration committee. Are you saying that he was kind of very heavily involved in the productions and in everything that was taking place? Look, Mark was such an asset to us. I mean, it was so great that he and Donald have this relationship and Tom Barrack, because without it, we wouldn't have been able to even get the talent that we did. I mean, there wasn't one entertainer who wanted to actually show up to this inauguration. I mean, really none. And our, you know, the presidential inauguration committee, there was when I first got there, an entertainment committee. So I was really psyched

to see these names were like 10 major names. Not one of them did a thing, but except Mark Burnett. And so, yeah, Mark really saved the day. Now, some of these investigations that are taking place now are about the misappropriation of funds that were that had transpired during the presidential inauguration committee. I mean, specifically, misappropriation is probably the wrong word. It is the diverting of funds to Trump properties. At some point while you were there at PIC, while you were at the Presidential Inauguration Committee, did you start getting worried when you saw massive amounts of money,

millions of dollars that were being diverted to Trump properties? Well, I think my biggest concern were the optics of all of this. I mean, again, I didn't actually ever see any of the money get transferred into the bank. But I did know that a lot of planning was going on in front of me and behind the scenes to hold all of these lavish events at the Trump Hotel, as well as, you know, within the and around the family, right, the importance of including the

family as hosting each of these events. So for me, the president-elect, I didn't think it looked good for him nor his family to be benefiting, financially benefiting from any of the events taking place during the presidential inauguration committee, especially since we're talking about a non-for-profit paying for them. So yeah, and I expressed those concerns many times. Got it. And the concerns that you expressed were that what you observed was the Trump family personally through their holdings benefiting from the nonprofit that was the Presidential Inauguration Committee. And you expressed those concerns within the presidential transition team. Well, I expressed those concerns to, yes, the heads of the presidential inauguration committee, my partners, as well as Donald and Melania. I mean, I would

come home from Washington and I'd go over to Trump Tower and I, you know, literally run into the apartment and I would cry to Melania for about half an hour. Donald would come home. I'd literally say I'm going to end up on the bottom of the Potomac River because there were so many different things that were going on that I was, you know, telling them about that I probably, you know, should have kept my mouth shut about because it ended up getting me, you know,

sliced away. But the reality is literally from my operations to getting certain, you know, separate from the white house. But I would take that over any, any day. Just again, being truthful about what was going on.

Got it. And I want to say, when we say sliced away, you eventually, because of what you knew when you started working at the White House, sliced away, you were terminated because in many ways you knew too much. I mean, you had been there and they wanted to scapegoat you,

they being Donald Trump and Melania. They wanted to scapegoat you for all of the criminal investigations that started looking into the things that you complained about. Is that is that accurate? But how crazy is that? Look at me. And it worked like the story was so juicy. It was so good. It was like Melania's best friend, the girl who knew, you know, Melania's friend, the woman who knew too much. And it worked. And then Melania tried to act like she didn't like you didn't know you. I mean, you and Melania were like one best,

like kind of best friends. Is that accurate? It's accurate. And we got extremely close during the planning of the presidential inauguration committee, as you can imagine, because I was on the phone with her all day, every day. And then you worked for her

after the presidential transition, after he became the president. And you had this kind of role where it was a chief strategist or chief administrator, but basically you were kind of everything in one, right? There was no one else there. I mean, I went into the White House for dinner the day after they got to the White House and to sit at the dinner table, you know, having a seat at the table with the president and his family and the first lady. I was there to work. I was there to set up her East

Wing. I interviewed all the staff. I helped her again, as far as setting up the residence to the office space. I mean, I was all in because there was no one else. So in 2018, people start investigating Trump organization, being the beneficiary of tons of millions of dollars of funds in PIC, millions of dollars that were that people were, you know, unaccounted for millions of dollars also that seemed to be going into the Trump organization. And you had been a, you know, in essence, kind of a whistleblower inside complaining about it. And then in the February period, you get a call from one of the Trump attorneys, correct? And you're kind of abruptly, you're fired, right, by Melania. Well, it sort of actually, an article first came out that had claimed that I, as her friend,

had received $26 million, which had never been, you know, retracted from the media. It was changed later on, but the New York Times, unfortunately, didn't really make that very clear to the rest of the world. And, you know, I wish Maggie Haberman and Ken Vogel would have just come out and clarified that I didn't get $26 million and not just, you know, sort of edited along the way. Because it made me not only the scapegoat and the fall guy, but what it did is it took the conversation away of exactly what you're talking about. $107 million, right? It became the friend and $26 million,

which neither were true, right? And then I get that call five days later from the White House attorney saying that all contracts that are gratuitous are terminated. Yeah. And so you have your best. You're one of the people you consider to be a best friend is, in essence, setting you up. I mean, she is framing you to be the fall person because people are looking into millions of dollars that were unlawfully diverted to the Trump organization. And they try to make it look like you were riding high, getting twenty six million dollars. But you were smart enough during this period because you did know you were being set up to start recording Melania, which was also how but for you having these recordings, you know, their lies may have, you know, penetrated and not have been corrected.

But this is your time, Stephanie, to speak the truth. And you are going to exclusively play for Midas Touch, the conversation that you had with Melania that discusses what happened when you received a call from the White House lawyers getting rid of your termination. And I had heard this video. I mean, it's shocking. And Melania is basically, in my reading of it, admitting that she's getting rid of you because they need to protect the higher up people, that they need to protect themselves and that, oh, you know, and she's basically mocking you for being fired because she had to protect the Trump family.

So let's play that tape. I'm not protect Melania again. I'm going to fall. I mean, because of Mark Brunette, everything needs to be in the papers anyway. If you put it out, Melania, everything will come out and the truth will prevail. I'm not worried about that. Eventually it will come out. But now I've for the last year and a half, what I've done,

I've now been fired. I've now been... Fired? You were fired? Seriously? No, Melania, it was the decision of you, the President and the White House to literally, yes, fire me. It's not fired.

Then what is it? I no longer have any association whatsoever. What? I have no association. I have nothing to do with you except as a friend. Because I talk with the lawyers, and they say it's risky to work under this contract. It's risky for you, and it's risky for the White House. And it's better we finish it.

We will keep quiet. We not say to anybody anything. OK, I hope it doesn't come out. We don't comment. We don't say anything. Everything died down. Nobody. It's like over the weekend was crazy. Today, nobody, nobody ask anything. Okay. So that's why. It's not like you're being fired. Pamela, we didn't even comment. They said, who has a contract as well? We didn't want to put even her name out because I know they will start digging at her. Who is she?

Right. Okay. So we want to protect everybody. It's not like you're fired. Don't be so dramatic because you were not fired. This came to that because it's politics and we cannot do anything about it. They will go after everybody and anything. And if you stay here, they will even go maybe further down.

Do you understand what I mean? And Stephanie, just we hear Mark Burnett mentioned in the intro around how much money did Mark Burnett make and his production company make in connection with PIC? You know, I was never in charge of the finances of the Presidential Inauguration Committee, nor did I see who was given, you know, payment, but except for the fact that through my company that I was a partner in, which was the company that was overseeing the entire inaugural of the 26 million that was claimed to have gone into my pockets, 25 million of that was paid to two executive broadcast producers that have worked with Mark Burnett for many years.

And it was a pre-approved budget that was going to be used for two two-hour live broadcasts, the Lincoln Memorial and the two at the Convention Center. So of that 26, 25 million was already allocated. And so the media, you know, when you're looking at the form 990, which is the form that goes to federal elections committees, where it lists all the vendors, WIS was listed as one. And again, that was obviously to be able to point the finger at me, as opposed to putting it perhaps on just directly to this company that was set up, you know, inaugural productions. Yeah. So they basically used you as the face of where the money was going. But in the end of the day, the vendor that you use, which was really the recipient of 98.999% of it was the executive production company, to your knowledge, that was controlled by Mark Burnett? Well, I wouldn't say it was controlled by Mark Burnett. They've been his producers for many, many years. I just, you know, want to be very careful about that. Got it. And when she's referencing Mark Burnett's name in that message, it's in that context, though. Well, I think when she's, well, not I think, when she's messaging his name in that, it was, we were sort of on eggshells a little bit, you know, and about Mark's involvement and I

wasn't really sure why. And so again, without saying too much, that conversation had to do with the release of that information. And then the name Pamela that's mentioned, who's that referring to? So there were only two contracts made for Melania's friends. Mine was one of them. And the other gratuitous service agreement was for Pamela Gross Finkelstein, who worked directly with me to launch Melania's initiatives. And her contract was also terminated, but she didn't work for the PIC. So they didn't want anyone to know that there were two of the same contracts. Got it.

And then moving forward though, at some point, which is fairly recently, it gets out that you're gonna be writing a book that explained your experience there. And that was a few months ago. It's a, it's a bestseller. It's an incredible book. What made you finally say, I have to get out these thoughts in a book and, and, and write it. Had you ever written a book before? No, I've written a lot, but not that, you know, the book started out as an op-ed quite honestly.

I mean, I, I needed to figure out what happened because I hadn't yet even understood. It happened so fast and furious. And I was taken down so quickly with so much authority that there was no way for me to make sense of it until I understood who I was actually working for and with. And so that 800 word op-ed turned into a book two and a half years later. And it was my only vehicle to tell the truth of what actually really happened. And I only was able to do it through the friendship with Melania because she and I didn't have an NDA while I was producing the inauguration. And then when the book comes out, of course, Melania claims that you're not even friends, that she doesn't even know you, despite all of the things that we just discussed.

And then our Department of Justice files a lawsuit against you. And that's the lawsuit that we began that was just dismissed. You're also, as I understand, you're a witness in various government investigations into the Trump organization. I know some of them we can't fully get into, but one that's going on right now is the D.C. AG, who has a civil case against the Trump administration for their conduct in connection with the pick. And they've deposed Ivanka already. That's when she tried to post the cherry picked email to make herself look good, but didn't post the whole email batch that showed that these were not regular rates. I mean, as you sit here today, Stephanie, do you have any doubt that the Trump organization engaged in

misconduct and you were a witness to that misconduct in connection with the pick? Look, I definitely didn't have any misconduct. My hands are clean. I'm an open book. I'm working with everyone that you can possibly imagine from grand jury subpoenas to intelligence committee to USAG. I don't think we would be having this conversation if the Trumps weren't trying to, you know, financially benefit themselves in every way possible. Understood. And what are your predictions going forward now? I guess, one, what would you like to see happen to the Trumps? And then two, what's in the future for you? Well, I think that just with all due respect, the fact that we have a justice system that's back together, the fact that we have some normalcy and, you know, President Biden is

bringing back the moral compass and just kindness and virtue back to conversation is so important to me. Because, again, we lost all of that with the Trumps. And I just felt like we were falling apart and we were taught our democracy was turning into an anarchy. And so at least now we can discuss the truth and know that it's being, you know, that the true experts in the fields that they should be in are in place and taking care of what needs to be taken care of. Do you, could you ever have imagined though, based on, you're not a political person,

you know, you're working at Vogue, you're, you know, you're throwing some incredible events in New York though, that you would be, you know, in the eye of the kind of Trump hurricane or the hurricane of American politics. Like, do you look back at this and say like, what the fuck? Oh my God, guys, seriously, I was in a den of thieves and I, you know, was swimming in a pool of sharks and I was, you know, naive enough and even stupid enough to think

that I could separate ethics and politics. I thought that I could work with the first lady and do all these great children's initiatives and make a difference while ignoring what was going on with Donald Trump. And that's not possible. And so I learned a really invaluable lesson, which I've taught to my three kids, which is you can't not know. You can't not understand what's going on around you. And you can't get involved with people or situations that you don't know anything about, regardless of who's involved. And Melania, I guess, tries to give this image that she's somehow, you know, different than Donald Trump. But just hearing her on tape, she sounds like a mafiosa.

She sounds like, are they the same person? For over 15 years. I mean, when you really think about it, Melania's, the way Melania's been able to protect herself and her self-image has been to not have any friends, is to block off everyone. And I mean that literally. And what I felt I needed to share with the world were the tapes when it came to not only them telling me that I was a liar and salacious gossip, but after watching her RNC speech, which was filled with so much of Donald's terror, that I had to stop protecting myself and start protecting the American people and let them hear her for herself.

What would you say? I'm sorry. I was going to say, what would you say? Like what, what do you want people to know about Melania from your perspective? Like who's the real Melania? The real Melania is just like Donald.

She is not only, you know, complicit, but she is also his biggest enabler. She's his biggest cheerleader. And, you know, she and he are, you know, in the circus together. And if he's the showman and the car salesman, she's his sidekick. No joke. She's not, you know they they work together stephanie winston walkoff thank you so much for the interview you can get stephanie's book milani and me the rise and fall of my friendship with the first lady again stephanie thank you for joining the Midas touch podcast thank you guys so much an awesome job to you guys ben jordy brett amazing thank you so much for all your support we will be right back after this. Welcome back to the Midas Touch podcast. We have the one and only Heather Gardner.

Heather, how are you doing? I'm so pumped! And Heather, we have a big announcement. I'm not going to step on the announcement. I will pass it to you. You're letting me do it? Oh, my gosh. Okay. Let me do it.

Drum roll. The divided state of America has officially launched on the Midas Network. Woo! Is that a good one? Oh, yeah. That was fantastic. So we are extremely thrilled. You know, Heather from her amazing videos,

her hilarious videos, her poignant videos, all the videos that we post across all of our social media channels. But now we're taking it up a notch. We're taking it up a notch. And we just announced the launch of the Midas Media Network, which hosts this podcast, as you all know.

And now we got our first series. We are so excited to share it with you. Why don't you just break down quickly? What's the show about? What could people expect? Well, I think the name gives it away. The Divided State of America. We're a divided state at the moment. It's a play on the, you know, the United States of America. But yeah, I mean, what we've been talking about for the last, I mean, five years, generations of people now, we are so divided as a country. And we wanted to talk about that. And we've been doing that with our videos that you guys have been so gracious and sharing on your channel for all these months. But like you said, this is the next level. This is the next step. Unfortunately, those little minute videos, there's so much more to talk about,

which I'm sure is why you guys started this podcast. There's so much to get into. So we wanted a longer format and now we've got one to just really get into the heart of why we are so divided, what's going on here. And really to just laugh our way through it, because if we don't laugh, we're going to cry. And I feel like it's a fair amount of that too, the last few years, but yeah, that's really what it's about is just kind of breaking it down, the divided state of America. So don't cry. The first episode will be dropping Thursday night. They'll be dropping each Thursday. Is that correct? Yeah. So it's kind of a late night style show, which has been our vibe. Like you said, like we get really important information in those little videos, but it's,

again, it's, it's funny. It's, I don't say it's lighthearted because it's definitely, you know, these are really serious issues, but we take that really funny drop an F bomb stance on it. So it's that late night style. Plus you guys are familiar with our parody videos, uh, parody songs are little skits that we do. It's a kind of a variety of a whole bunch of different things all in that, that political vein. Heather, do you have a favorite Midas brother? Oh, why do you gotta do this? Why? Why? What if I just like close my eyes and point to the

screen? Is that okay? She pointed to me, Heather Gardner. Thank you so much for joining the Midas Touch podcast. We will all be checking out the divided states of America. Heather Gardner, thank you so much for joining the Midas Touch podcast. We will all be checking out the divided states of America. Heather Gardner, thank you so much. Thank you, guys. I'm so excited. First episode is dropping over now. Check it out on YouTube. Cannot wait and it's just been so incredible working with you. It's been awesome. Oh, thank you.

The feeling is mutual. This has been another episode of the Midas Touch podcast. Thank you for listening. Shout out to the Midas Touch podcast. Thank you for listening. Shout out to the Midas Mighty.