The MeidasTouch Podcast - Zelenskyy Checkmates Trump in Rome with Power Move

Episode Date: April 27, 2025

MeidasTouch host Ben Meiselas reports on Ukrainian President Zelenskyy flanked by his allies from Europe taking command of negotiations with Trump at Pope Francis’ funeral in Rome and delivering a powerful counter-offer for an unconditional ceasefire with Russia. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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looking like the weak one now in the negotiation. So during the funeral of Pope Francis in Rome, Zelensky was surrounded by his friends, his strong allies. You had French President Emmanuel Macron. You had the United Kingdom Prime Minister, Kier Starmer. You had the European Union Commission President, von der Leyen, and others surrounding Zelensky and standing strong with Zelensky. I mean, literally right here, you have Macron and Kier Starmer with Zelensky as they were speaking to Donald Trump. I mean, Trump looked addled. He looked fatigued. He was wearing a blue suit at the funeral of Pope Francis, the only person not wearing a black suit and a long black tie, which was the dress code. And one of the ways Zelensky's been outmaneuvering Donald Trump,

standing with his allies in Europe, the real coalition of the willing, making it clear that there are bright lines that Ukraine will not cross in any negotiations. Ukraine making it clear that they're the ones who agree to an unconditional ceasefire. And it's Vladimir Putin who refuses to do an unconditional ceasefire. Ukraine also making it very clear they're not going to give up Crimea. They're not going to give up territories that are Ukrainian territories that were either annexed or stolen by Russia in an unlawful invasion. So the United States trying to jam under Trump, trying to jam down Zelensky's throat, a mineral deal, you must give up Crimea, you can never join NATO. And Zelensky's saying, no,

we want peace. We're agreeable to an unconditional ceasefire, unlike Putin. But we and our European allies have our own terms and we're standing on business. We're standing strong. So that's what was happening in Rome over the weekend. And this followed that meeting on Friday between Donald Trump's special envoy to Russia, Steve Witkoff and Vladimir Putin. And it also followed while that meeting was taking place there was also the general the Russian general who's who was assassinated as his car blew up in Moscow as well so there was that development that happened too so that was all going on on Friday now Steve Witkoff Donald Trump's special envoy to Russia, he met with Putin for approximately three hours.

It was the fourth visit. There was another visit a few weeks back where he put his hand on his heart and looked like he was like pledging allegiance to Putin. In this meeting with Putin, you can see how inexperienced and amateurish Steve Witkoff is. To be clear, Steve Witkoff is not a diplomat. He's like a New York real estate guy who just knew Donald Trump. And so he shows up to this fourth meeting with Putin without an interpreter, without anybody from the United States embassy, without anybody, just shows up alone. And then when he gets there, he looks at an interpreter provided by Putin. He's like, are you from the embassy? Are you my interpreter? This is unheard

of. You do not show up alone to meet with Putin in a negotiation when Putin's team is there, and then wonder who the interpreter is who's even been provided there by Putin. It's just not the way you conduct business. And Putin was doing that to mock and humiliate the United States when that was taking place. Let me just show you what was going on with Witkoff on Friday when he met with Putin. And I think it's important to talk about that in the context of what went down over this weekend. Here, watch this clip. How are you, Mr. President?

Very interesting. so then before that meeting between witkoff and put Putin in that clip that I just showed you, he was strolling alongside a Russian sovereign wealth fund CEO, Kirill Dmitriev, going around Moscow and looking at shops and buildings. Because one of the things I think Putin is trying to say is we're going to build the Trump Tower. We're going to build all of this. Let me show you the scene as Witkoff, Trump's special envoy, was strolling outside of Moscow. This was an incredibly embarrassing moment right here. Here, play this clip right here. so that's what went down on friday um and then you had on friday as well the situation over here where major general yaroslav masiklik, Deputy Chief of Main Operations, Directorate of Russian General Staff, he was assassinated when his car exploded. Now, on Friday, that happened on Friday, Donald Trump had posted the following,

Ukraine headed by Zelensky has not signed the final papers on the very important rare earths deal with the United States. It is at least three weeks late. Hopefully it will be signed immediately. And Trump puts that in caps. Work on the overall peace deal between Russia and Ukraine is going smoothly. Success seems to be in the future. Then you have that Witkoff meeting. Trump touches down in Rome. Trump writes, just landed in Rome. A good day in talks and meetings with Russia and Ukraine. They are very close to a deal and the two sides should now meet at the very high levels to, quote, finish it off. Most of the major points are agreed to. Stop the bloodshed now.

We will be wherever is necessary to help facilitate the end to this cruel and senseless war. And then following Trump meeting with Zelensky, and again, Zelensky had Macron and Starmer and von der Leyen and others backing him up there, others in the European Union. Then Trump posted after he left the funeral for Pope Francis, Trump wrote, no matter what deal I make with respect to Russia, Ukraine, no matter how good it is, even if it's the greatest deal ever, the failing New York Times will say what a bad deal it is. Wow, wow, wow, wow, wow. He goes, with all that being said, there was no reason for Putin to be shooting missiles into civilian areas, cities and towns over the last few days. It makes me think

that maybe he doesn't want to stop the war. He's just tapping me along and has to be dealt with differently through banking or secondary sanctions. Too many people are dying. And you have to credit President Zelensky of Ukraine for confronting Donald Trump appropriately at the funeral of Pope Francis and conveying very strongly the points that needed to be conveyed right there. And here's basically the counterproposal that Zelensky and Europe basically responded with. Reuters published a full Ukraine-Europe peace counterproposal to the U.S. from talks in London.

There are four main parts, ceasefire security guarantees for Ukraine territory and economic ceasefire. Commit to a full and unconditional ceasefire in the sky on land and at sea. Both sides immediately entered into negotiations with the U.S. and European countries. Ceasefire monitoring led by the U.S. and supported by third countries. Russia must unconditionally return all deported Ukrainian children, exchange prisoners of war for all, release civilian prisoners, security guarantees for Ukraine. Ukraine received security guarantees, Article 5-like agreement, including from the U.S., but there is no consensus among allies on NATO membership,

no restrictions on Ukrainian defense forces. The guarantor states will be European and willing non-European countries, no restrictions on the presence, weapons, and operations of friendly foreign forces on the territory of Ukraine. Ukraine pursues becoming part of the EU. Territorial issues will be resolved after a full unconditional ceasefire. Territorial negotiations start from the basis of the control line. Ukraine regains control of its nuclear power plant and its dam with U.S. involvement. Ukraine enjoys unhindered passages to the river and the control of the other major location. The U.S. and Ukraine implement an economic cooperation minerals agreement.

Ukraine will be fully reconstructed and compensated financially through Russian sovereign assets. U.S. sanctions on Russia since 2014 may be gradually eased after achieving a sustainable peace and resumption if the peace will be breached. That was from Reuters who got their hands on it. So it's brilliant. You've got Zelensky from this position of power with Europe saying, no, Donald, here are the terms that anybody who's actually interested in a peace should want. Zelensky posted the following yesterday after Pope Francis's funeral. Today in Rome, I met with the president of the Council of Ministers of Italy, Giorgio Maloney. We discussed the importance of security guarantees for Ukraine and efforts to restore peace and protect lives. 46 days ago, Ukraine agreed to a full and

unconditional ceasefire. And for 46 days, Russia has continued to kill our people. Therefore, special attention was paid to the importance of applying pressure on Russia. I appreciate Georgia Maloney's clear and principled stance. I also informed her about the constructive meetings held by the Ukrainian delegation with representatives of the United States, France, the United Kingdom, and Germany in Paris and London. There is a shared position. An unconditional ceasefire must be the first step towards achieving sustainable peace in Ukraine. He then posted this yesterday. During my meeting with Emmanuel Macron, president of France, we discussed the path toward a

full and unconditional ceasefire and the need to apply pressure on Russia and establish it. I outlined the consequence of the Russian attacks that we've been talking about in Sumy and Kiev and other places. To protect the lives of Ukrainians, there is a critical need to strengthen our air defense. We are counting on the support of our partners. I thank Emmanuel for his steadfast support of Ukraine and for all the efforts that help our people endure and bring peace closer. As it relates to Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, Kerstarmer,

Zlinski writes, the steps necessary to establish a full and unconditional ceasefire and to develop further security guarantees were the main topics of our discussion. We summarized the outcomes of the meetings between representatives of Ukraine, US, France, UK, Germany, and Paris, and London. We will continue to work within the coalition of the willing. The unconditional ceasefire must be achieved in the air, at sea, and on land, and must become the first step toward establishing a just peace with reliable security guarantees. Only strong guarantees can ensure lasting peace and protect people's lives. And then he met with Donald Trump right there, which we talked about yesterday as well. And then Donald Trump made that post after that with Time magazine where Trump claimed that

bringing peace to Ukraine in 24 hours was just a joke. He said it was just jest. That's what he told Time magazine, that nobody took him seriously except fake news took him seriously, which is kind of a ridiculous thing to say. We should all be reminded what Donald Trump's promises were because their promises broken. This is what Donald Trump was saying during the campaign. Let's play this clip right here. Let's play it. And the war in Ukraine in 24 hours. Yes. How would you do that? I know Zelensky very well. I'll end that war between those two countries in 24 hours. It won't even take that long. I will get the war ended. I'll stop all of those

lives from being wasted and lost. And there'll be no more bombing of Ukraine. So that's where things stand right now. The Kiev Independent is also reporting that in terms of what's going on on the front line of the war, while Russia has made some marginal gains here and there, the gains that Russia has been making is not at a level of significance where Ukraine fears that it's in a position of significant weakness, where it has to negotiate some sort of surrender. Ukraine feels strong about its position. Russia has put all these resources into this latest offensive, and by and large, they're bogged down, again, with certain skirmishes here and there, slight gains here and there, but nothing that, as of right now,

Ukraine, European intelligence are fairly confident that this can be dealt with and eventually pushed back and that they feel confident in their position. But when you take a look at this all, I think it shows the strength of Zelensky's negotiating position, how he managed to handle everything, I think, really intelligently in Rome, having his allies by his side, taking command, taking the initiative in these negotiations. You tell me what you think, but I think that gives you a fair summary of where we are now. No deal Donald still. I call him, you know, no deal Donald, no trade deals, no peace deal, zero, zero. But Zelensky and Europeans, you know, coming together to negotiate strongly and powerfully.

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