The Best Relationship Advice I’d Give My 27-Year-Old Daughter
00:00Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast.I am so excited that you're here. It's your buddy Mel Robbins. And today, my oldest daughter, SawyerRobbins, you are here with me. We're going to do something that I don't think we've done before.No. So she has a clipboard. And you have all kinds of questions. I have not seen the questions.Can you at least give me a hint? Is there a topic we're talking about? Or is this just like a random firing of random questions?Yes. So today, I have pulled together a list of questions.from myself, from my sister, my friends, the audience, all about love and relationships.Ooh. I love this topic. We need your advice. Okay. Well, I'm going to give it to you after this
00:46short break. We're going to give our sponsors a chance to share a few words. Do not go anywhere.We're starting the show in just a minute. Hey, it's your friend Mel and welcome to the Mel Robbinspodcast. I am so thrilled that you're here with me today. If you're new, if somebody shared thiswith you. I also just want to take a moment and welcome you to the Mel Robbins podcast family.Today we are doing something that I've never done before. I am sitting here with our daughter,Sawyer. Sawyer is our oldest, oldest of three. If you're a new listener, my husband and I have beenmarried 30 years. We have three kids. How old are you? 27? I am 27. 27. Kendall, who's 26,Oakley, who's 21. We are sitting in the TV room here in our Vermont house and our rescue cap
01:38Mr. Noodle has jumped on my lap and his eyes are open, but he's got that sort of dead weightof an animal that's sleeping. Anybody that has a cat understands what a precarious position I'm inright now because my legs are crossed and I already feel my foot falling asleep. But we are doingsomething that I've never done before. Sawyer has a clipboard in front of her. What are we doing?Hi, my name is Sawyer Robbins. And today I have the pleasure of asking Mel, my mom,tons of questions about love, dating, and relationships that I, myself, have had for a reallylong time. I've pulled from listener and audience questions. I've gathered from my sister,my friends, all of who are in the same age group. So Sawyer, questions about love and relationships.
02:25Yeah. Are these just questions you have about your relationship? Are these, like, random questions?These are random questions. Okay, because I know Gavin, your boyfriend, listens to this show.Yes, he does. So what do you, do you want to say something to Gavin?Gavin, I love you so much. And any of these questions I've probably already brought up with you. So you have nothing to worry about. I love that. Okay, good. So we can both weigh in and we can go straight for boom. The jugular. Okay. Well, you can go for the jugular. I'm just going to tell you what I think. Great. Okay. Let me start with the first one. All right. How do you know if someone is the right person for you versus an incredible person who just isn't the right fit?I'm going to give you three things.Perfect.Number one, you know.There is a deep, just awful dread when you have a sense that the person that you're with is amazing,
03:26but there is just something that's not quite right.And I know this dread because I have felt it with two people in my lifetime before I met your father.Absolutely amazing human beings.And the truth is I probably could have had a really beautiful marriage and life with either one of them.But I was not in a place where I was healthy enough to be in a relationship.Do you feel like if you were healthy enough, you would end up marrying them?The first guy, yeah.Okay.
04:03Yeah.And we would have had a beautiful life together.But I was in my early 20s and I had undiagnosed ADHD and dyslexia.I was unaware of trauma that I experienced when I was in the fourth grade.Mm-hmm.And I was a walking anxiety attack.I was on edge or drunk most of the time.And it's very hard to be in a healthy relationship when you're not healthy.
04:39And it's not fair to the other person because they can try to make you okay.And new relationships are so distracting.Oh my gosh.It's intoxicating when you are falling in love with somebody.and it seems to wipe away all your problems because the,I don't even know what the neurochemicals are that are flood in your body,but God damn do they feel good.And good, it's better than a Zoloft.
05:06Let me tell you that.But what happens is when the relationship goes from lift off to cruising.Yeah, that's when all bets are off.Well, what happens is all of the flood of falling in love starts to disappear,which means all of the issues that you haven't dealt with.within yourself come back. Right. And then you make the mistake that I made, which is you thinkthe problem is the other person. You think the problem is the relationship. Actually, no, you're theproblem because you're not healthy. So there is a deep dread that you feel when you know that you are
05:47with the right person, but it's the wrong time. Okay. Or you're with the right person.But you're not right.Or you're with the wrong person.Or you're with a really, really good person.But they're the wrong person for you.And it begins with this deep knowing.And you can sit with it for months.You can sit with that for years.
06:18And you start to question whether or not you're a good person.You start to wonder what's wrong.you start to poke holes at this person who's wonderful and they don't deserve it. And that's because deep down,you're not in integrity with yourself. And it's easier to pick at somebody else than to look in the mirror and go,okay, what is wrong in terms of the things that I need to deal with so that I'm healthy? And what are thethings that I really want in life. And is this person truly someone that can build that life with me?And so that's number one. I think you do know. And it's just a very, very difficult thing to tease outand to start admitting to yourself that you are with an extraordinary human being and a really
07:11kind person and a loving person. And they're just not the right person for you right now.that's number one second is that you have to give up something that matters to you deeply in order to be with this person and this one comes from research the Gottman's you know as you're listening or watching are probably the most legendary relationship researchers on the planet they're also been married for like 40 some years they've been doing this for five decades andAnd their research is very conclusive that it will not work if you have to give up on your dreams or you have to go against your values in order to be with this person.Let's just say that you've always dreamt of going to graduate school and owning your own business.And you fall for somebody who's incredible, but they want you to be a stay-at-home person that never, ever has a job.But they're a great person, but they're wonderful, but they make a lot of money, but oh, my God, my not.But that's a part of my life.That's a no.
08:19That's a no because when you think about your life,you've always had a dream of having your money.When you think about your life,you've always dreamt of building something that's your own.When you think about your life,you've always thought about having four kidsand a supportive partnerand they're supporting you in your business.
08:37And for you to give up something that you dream aboutor you to go against your values,it will never work.and you'll start resenting the other personbecause you made a choiceto prioritize them over the vision that you had for your life.The wheels are spinning at my mind.The third reason is you cannot accept them
08:59for who they are.The Gottman's also say that like 69% of the thingsthat you bicker aboutthat drive you crazy about your partner,never going anywhere.Never.And it is an act of violenceagainst somebody else
09:15and an act of violenceagainst yourselfto be in a relationshipwhere you areconstantly criticizingand nitpickingsomething about this personthat's always been there.
09:28I mean,just stop and think about that.Would you want to bein a relationshipwith some guywho thinks you're amazingand yet when you're not therehe's bitching about
09:37the fact that you're not skinny enoughor complaining that you're too...I love Sawyer,but God,she's just too...ambitious. Like I really, like, if I could just get her to stop working, being in a relationshipwith somebody that you fundamentally want to change who they are, that's not fair to the otherperson. It's not fair to you either. And I think that's most relationships, by the way, but, you know,
10:02and there's a difference between having things that annoy you. Like, that's normal maritalhatred. There are things about your father that drive me crazy. Crazy. He is the world'sslowest processor. Like the man, it's like the wheels are turning and, thank God. He's a deep thinker.He chooses his words carefully. And it's something that I have come to love about him and cherish about him.But it drove me crazy. And what I realize now is that if I had been in a relationship with somebodylike me, we would have killed each other in a matter of a year. And so again, those things are,Number one, you know deep down and you haven't been willing to admit that you're not healthy and you got work to do.Number two, you got to give up on dreams or values to stay with the person.
10:54Or number three, you fundamentally cannot accept the things that haven't changed.So I feel like there needs to be a clarification.Like I was talking to one of my sister's friends who's going through, should I get backwith my ex, should I not? What she's experiencing is not traits someone can learn how to do.She's experiencing, this person is boring. This person is not funny. These are like fundamental thingsabout who they are. Yes. Versus things that someone can eventually learn and like, but you still want tochange that about them. Well, there's a big difference between skills and habits and somebody'sunderlying personality and what they're motivated by in life.
11:44Okay, speak more about that.So skills and habits are things people can learn.Learning how to pick up after yourself, especially, and I'm going to go on the recordand piss a lot of people off, but there's a lot of guys out there who were just smotheredby their mothers.They're used to somebody else picking up after them.And now you've handed over a giant manchild to a young woman who's like, I don't even knowif I want to marry you because you are missing some skills. And so there are skills that people can
12:15learn. And there's also habits that people can learn to be in a healthy relationship. Andparticipating in the maintenance and the upkeep of the home you live in is not a freaking genderrole. It is part of being in an adult relationship. And so building those skills andbuilding habits that have you be a person that is contributing to a relationship in a healthy wayare very, very important.What you're talking about is, does somebody have underlying traits or issues that are a problemfor me?And if I'm with somebody who's not interested in other people, you're out.
12:58Right.If I'm with somebody who's not fun, why the hell do I want to spend my life with you?Right.If I'm with somebody who's mean to other people, I am leaving the date. If I am with somebody who is not an intellectual person who's intellectually curious, I can't be with somebody who, for example, doesn't care about the environment or earth. I can't be with somebody who isn't committed to making the community that we live in better. I can't be with somebody who's not kind. Do I have to be with somebody who's hilarious?No, I don't. I can bring the fun. But I really need in my partner traits around kindness,around curiosity, around partnership, around adventure. Those are the things that I value.And those are hard things to teach in someone. Yeah. And that's what I feel like for those of youlistening, you need to distinguish. Is it a habit or a skill that this person can learn?
13:59Or is it a fundamental trait of this person? Yes. If you're with somebody that'sboring, they're going to get more boring.Yes, okay. But also,here's the thing. You may be with somebody who makes a lot of moneyright now. Guess what? They can also lose a lot ofmoney. And what I've alwaystold you guys isyou want to be
14:17with somebody who feelslike home base.You want to be with somebody who is an exhale,a smile, and a hug.Because lifeis long and life is hard.And it's easy to bewith people when things are great. It's
14:33It's easy. You could date a lot of people. You could even be married to a lot of different people if you've got a lot of money. You can be dating somebody and married to somebody when you look fantastic and so do they. You can be dating or married to somebody when everything's going well and no one's parent is dying and no one's kid is going through lots of problems at school. Oh, that's easy. What you want is somebody that you can do the hard things with. What you want is somebody that after a really,stressful day at work and an hour and a half commute home. Oh my God. And you don't even know what you'regoing to have for dinner because you haven't been to the grocery store in 10 days. But when you walk inthe door, can you exhale? Do you smile when you see this person? Are you happy when they give you ahug? If you have those three things at the end of a stressful day, you have everything that matters.You really do. Period. Love that. Yeah, and everybody gets fat. Everybody loses hair. You should have seen theamount of hair that came off my head in the shower this morning. What is happening? Everybody's bodies change.Yeah. Life changes. Are you with somebody that you're like, again, it's the James Sexton advice that he shared on the Mel Robbins podcast. You're my favorite person. Even when you're fat, you're my favorite person. Even when you're struggling, because, you're,
16:03Because, you know, one of your parents is dying. You're my favorite person. Even when you're unemployed and you're down in the dumps because it's a really terrible job market, now you feel like a piece of crap because you're not earning money. You're still my favorite person. Yeah. I love that. That's really helpful. Okay. How do you know when it's time to be single? If you have been in a series of relationships and you have never taken a break, you're an overlapper. AndIf you're an overlapper, you know what I mean.You're sort of like somebody doing the trapeze where before you let go of this one, you're grabbing the next one.You need to be single.Yeah.Because you have been using relationships as a way to regulate yourself instead of dealing with the issues and patterns in your life that are making you unhappy.Another person does not solve the deeper issues in your life.Another person is a distraction that keeps you from healing and growing.
17:03and fixing the things that you need to fix longer.I cannot wait to send that to so many people I know.No, it's true because I was that person.I was that person that from the age of 13 all the way until meeting your father,I was always in a relationship.So you never had a single moment.I have never been single since I was 13.And it cost me a lot.
17:30Yeah.Wow.I don't have the group of girlfriends.that I see you and your sister having from college because I was always in a relationship.Always. I was that girl that was always in a relationship and I really regret it. And it delayed myhealing by at least 15 years. And I think we need to clarify because today's day and age,there's so many people who are, quote, not in relationships, but they're still dating. But when youare dating, you are in a relationship. And so if you are continuing to see someone consistently,
18:02even if you don't have the title of boyfriend girlfriend, you are still not having that single era.Correct, because you're putting a ton of energy into what this other person is thinking and how do I spend time with this person and what should I be looking like for this person versus really having time by yourself.Mm-hmm.I think that was like the best thing I ever did was be single for like six years.I'm so jealous, honestly. Like, I really, it's one of the biggest regrets of my life. Yeah. That I was always in a relationship when I was young. If I could go back and wave a magic wand, I would make myself single for my entire college and law school years. And that would have also saved these two wonderful men, the headache and heartache of having to deal with me during a very self-destructive period of my life.Mm-hmm. And I feel like I was during those six years, which was college and like the two years after, I was also in such a destructive anxiety written place that I can now look back and see. And I can't even imagine having a boy to like point that at. Instead, it was just all internal. Yeah. I can't imagine constantly like having a man. I wanted one. I wanted one. Of course you do, because when you're in a relationship, you gaslight in.yourself into believing that because somebody's choosing you, you're okay. Yes. And the relationship is a signthat you're functioning. Yes. And for many people, myself included, the relationship was a distraction.
19:44Mm-hmm. And it allowed me to avoid dealing with myself and the things about myself that I needed to change.Totally. Somebody else's acceptance made up for the fact that,that I didn't accept myself.Yes, that's so powerful.And here's another reason whyit's really importantto understand when you need to be single.So if you're in a situation also
20:13where you have been in one or two relationshipswhere things ended poorlyor you're devastatedand now you're doing that,thing, you're like, well, they were a freak and, you know, what a nightmare and you're blaming itand on the person, there's very important research that I learned about when we were writingthe Let Them Theory book together, Sawyer. If you don't take a period of time to be single and totake a look at the patterns in the last two or three relationships you've been in, you will
20:51repeat the pattern with the new person over and over and over again. You can't. You can't. You can,You cannot outrun your past.You cannot outdate your bad habits and relationships.And you cannot marry yourself into healing.Those are individual things that you need to do.And so if you have a friend or a daughter or a mother or a brother or anybody in your life,are like, why do they keep, why do they just keep dating these losers?Like, what is wrong with this person?
21:26They're amazing. Why do they end up with people that treat them like this? I just don't get it.What's happening is there is a pattern from their past that is getting repeated and they are subconsciously choosing people and that pattern gets recreated.And until you stop and you are single and you work with somebody.You work with a licensed mental health counselor to understand what are the things in these.relationships that all connect, and it probably connects to your childhood too. And what are thepatterns I need to see in myself that I also need to break and replace with new patterns?Yeah. And you will just keep on doing it. And if you are used to being in a relationship where you'reconstantly chasing this person and you're being disrespected and you're not feeling empowered and you feel
22:20kind of devalued and you start to tell yourself, well, if I can just get this person to like meand to leave their girlfriend, then I'm going to feel good about myself. It's not the person. It's thepattern. Yeah. And you can't break that pattern while you're in a new relationship.Phenomenal. This feels like a great moment to take a quick break to give our amazing sponsors achance to share a few words. And do not go anywhere. I'm looking at her clipboard and we got a lot moreto cover when we returns to stay with me. Welcome back. It's your friend Mel Robbins. And today I'mwith our oldest daughter, Sawyer. She's the co-author of the Let Them Theory book, and she has aclipboard of questions about love and relationships with her, and we are just rifling through
23:09them. I'm so thrilled your ear. All right, Sawyer, let's just jump right back into it. What's thenext question? This comes from someone in Kendall's network, my sister. My partner is incrediblyambitious and pursuing their dreams heavily, but I feel like I've taken a backseat in therelationship. How do you make sure both people's dreams matter equally?So you have taken a backseat, and you should.Okay.There are periods in life where focusing on your ambition and the thing that you want to create comes first.You cannot build a massive business and also be there all the time for your kids.
23:56You cannot write a book and pour yourself into it and pour the exact same amount of time and energy into your relationship.That's just the truth.Yeah.And understanding that there are periods of your life where your ambition should come first.Because if you don't put in the time and you don't put in the energy, you will live with that regret for the rest of your life.I think about your sister right now.She is meant to be out in the world singing.It is so obvious to everybody that knows her.
24:31And she said to me the other day,I'm so happy I'm single right now.Yeah.Because the period of my career that I'm in right nowneeds all of my attention.And if you're in a relationshipwith somebody who is wildly ambitiousand you're starting to feel like you're not as important,
24:51number one, you're not as important.And number two, that's a huge,wake-up call for you to figure out what is the purpose for your life. What are the things thatmake you feel like what you're doing matters? Because there is more to life than being somebody'sgirlfriend or wife. There is more to life than being somebody's mother. There is a contribution thatyou are here to make. And if you're in a relationship with somebody who has massive ambitions,you should take time to figure out what are your ambitions. And here's the twist on this.ambition doesn't have anything to do with money.
25:30Ambition is the drive that you have to create and experience things.I happen to be a person that is extraordinarily ambitious.I love building things.I love the creative process.I wake up every day excited becauseit creates meaning and drive and a sense of purpose for me.Your father is extraordinarily ambitious.And the last thing he is ever thinking about is money.
26:06You can be ambitious in the way that you support your partner and the way that you raise kids.You can be ambitious in how you volunteer in the road races that you run.But you need to have something that's yours.Right.So let me ask a follow-up question. I know a lot of people who feel like their partner's career and their partner's ambition is driving every decision in the relationship and their decisions don't matter. So is your advice to basically say, screw what your partner's doing, don't move to the city because you don't want to? It's a yes and. Okay. So here is the truth. And I don't like this, but it's a truth. Okay. The person who typically makes more money drives a decision.decisions. That's one of the reasons why I have been adamant with you and your sister that you need to make your own money.Because money is power. Money is freedom. Money gives you choices. And if you're in a relationship with somebody whose career is driving every decision, that's okay.If you're married to somebody who's in a residency program, you have two choices. You either move with the person because this is the phase of the
27:24career that they're in and this is the life that you're building together and you supporting them bygoing with them, that's the right decision. Or you do a yes and. How are we going to figure this out?And, you know, these are very, very personal things for you to figure out. And maybe it's going to belike a relay race. There are going to be periods where your partner's career and ambition comes first.Yeah. Because they're in the build mode. Right. Or they're in the graduate school mode.or they're the one making the money and you've been raising kids or you've been on a different track.You're a teacher. You're a nurse. You're somebody doing a really important job that unfortunately society does not value and is not paying you what you deserve. What you're doing has worth and it matters. Supporting somebody you love through something that they care deeply about matters. When your dad was getting his master's degree, his MBA at Babson, and it took him seven years.And he was working full time and I'm working full time. And you moved to Boston for that.
28:29I moved to Boston for that. I left a job that I loved. I wanted to kill him. Yeah.But I chose to do that because I loved him and it mattered to me that we were together. It was more important to be with him than to stay in a job and be in a city alone without him. That's a choice I made and I wanted to make it. And I'm glad I did.So the important thing is that you and your partner are talking about this stuff and you're talking about the timeline of it and you're talking about what each of you are going to have to do in order to make this work.And if you're the one that's agreeing to the move, if you're the one that is alone a lot because they're off at graduate school, you have to ask yourself, what do I need in return?Yeah. And you need to be clear about that. And you need to communicate that clearly. And when it changes, I need more time from you. I need us to have Saturdays just us, not any of your stupid friends at graduate school, because I don't care about them. I need time with you. Right. You need to be responsible for what you need in return for all of the things that you're giving and all of the things that you're giving up. And if you can't communicate that, you'reyou're going to start to resent the person.No, I love that.That's really, really helpful.
29:52Really helpful.Because it is a give and take.And I'm a realist when it comes to the fact that you can't do everything and be everything for everybody at every moment.And the answers are when you get quiet and you ask yourself the important questions.What do I want?Not what does Sally have?What does Susie have?What are those people doing on their, like, you know, Bachelorette part?
30:17Now, what do I want?What do I want?What do I care about as a person?If you can't answer those questions, you will always be lost in life.That is the constant status of how we all feel is paralyzed and unable to make a decision.Well, so there's no right decision, by the way.There's just a decision.And then what you do after you make the decision to make it right.
30:46I want you to really hear that.All of the effort and time and energythat gets put into making the right decision,the perfect decision, there is no perfect decision.There are just decisions that you makeand then you figure it out.And most decisions are not permanent.Even a tattoo you can get off.
31:11There are very few decisions in lifethat are like a bell you can't unring.I have a lot of thoughts, but we'll get there.Okay.How do you support a partner who's struggling to find a job or figure out their careerwithout becoming controlling, critical, or feeling responsible for their success?This is a really hard one because your dad, I believe, was laid off from seven jobs in nine years.You cannot force somebody to be motivated.
31:40You cannot force somebody to be ambitious.you cannot force somebody to be successful in a career they don't like.It takes some of us a very, very long time to find our way.And it's extremely difficult to watch somebody that you care deeply aboutand that you believe in, slowly lose belief in themselves.And right now, it's important to understand that we are in an extremely difficult job market.Yeah.And we are in very weird times, at least in this country and scary times.
32:18And there's so much change that's happening, it's very easy to feel paralyzed.And I think the most important thing that you can do, if this is a person who you see is making the effort, is to allow them to borrow.your belief and optimism that this will all work out.You being able to authentically say,I trust the timing of your life.I trust that you are going to figure this out.I trust that even if it takes you a yearbefore you find a job,
33:02that you will look backand you will see the reason why it took a yearand you will understandthat all of this, as Oprah says, is happening for you.And so here's what I've learned the hard way.The person that's looking for a job already feels like crap about it.They are already beating themselves up.They already feel bad.
33:27Do not make them feel bad.Because they're making themselves feel so bad.They're doing it as if 10 people are putting pressure on them.They're putting so much pressure on themselves.You think they want to be unemployed?Of course not.Do you think they feel good?not making money, of course not. So you adding more pressure, you adding concern just makes that weight
33:49heavier. It's critical even when you don't believe to continue to say, I know this is all going towork out. I know it's going to be tough. I know it's going to take longer than you and I wanted to,and I see how hard you're working at this. And I know it's not easy. And I believe that,you didn't get that job because you weren't supposed to.Yeah.You are not succeeding at this because you're not supposed to be succeeding at this.You're supposed to be a teacher.You're supposed to be a therapist.
34:22You're supposed to be a golf pro.You're supposed to be somebody that buys a small business with your dadand you own a small business in a community.You're not meant to be a person doing, you know what your dad was trying to do?he was trying to do tech sales. He hated it, but he was trying to be good at something he hated.You will never be good at something you hate. Right. You just have something different that's meant for you.And some people need 11 layoffs to figure it out. Some people need to be unemployed for a year to realize,well, this isn't working. Maybe I need to make a radical change. It is critical if you're looking for a job
35:01that you create something that you can control that makes you proud of yourself. And I would highlyrecommend that you structure a physical thing. This would be a perfect time to train for a marathon.This would be a perfect time to do a challenge like 75 hard. This would be a perfect time to takeon a project that gives your day-to-day life structure. Now, here's the caveat. If you're withsomebody that's looking for a job and they're slowly starting to disengage and they are sleeping inand they're drinking more.And they're spending a ton of time online.Or watching TV.
35:41Or watching TV nonstop.You've got to really watch that.And when we had Dr. Jonathan Haidt on the Mel Robbins podcast,he is a professor at NYU.He wrote that Blockbuster Best Selling Book, The Ancest Generation.And his research also became some of the foundational researchin the big landmark settlement cases.He came on our podcast and said, after doing all this research where a lot of the research and a lot of the attention was on how social media impacts girls and women through comparison, isolation, amplifying self-doubt, self-criticism, he believes they have completely underestimated the impact on boys and men.
36:27And that if you spend too much time online consuming short form content, porn, gambling sites, and business.betting and social media, the cheap dopamine really screws up the reward center in the brain,and you will start to see the guy in your life withdrawing. You'll start to see a lack of motivation,and it's not because they don't want to be motivated. It's the way that this cheap short formcontent and being online is screwing with their brain. That you really have to watch out for.And the solution is to take the phone away, right?Well, the solution is to sit down and have a constructive conversation.Yeah.
37:13Basically saying, how are you feeling about the job search?How are you feeling about how much time you're spending online?I'm noticing that you're withdrawing a lot.And do you experience that?What do you think you might want to do about this?You have to be with them.If you bark orders, they're not going to do it.And you're going to shove them in their corner.
37:30And then I would highly recommend you send them,the episode that we did with Jonathan Haidt.We'll link to it in the show notes because let them hear it from the expert.It's not you.It's how being online is screwing the reward center of your brain, and that's what's causing the lack of motivation.And the good news is you can fix it.You've got to get off your phone for two weeks, but your brain can pretty quickly reset.That was what he said.
37:56Incredible.So let's take a quick break.My leg is falling asleep because noodle is on it, and I got to get up and go thebathroom. Don't go anywhere, though, when we return. Sawyer has more questions. I have no idea what she'sgoing to ask next, and neither do you, but you'll find out after this short break. Stay with me.Welcome back. Today, you and I are talking love and relationships with our oldest daughter,Sawyer Robbins. She's the co-author of the Let Them Theory book. Today, we're talking love andrelationships. So, Sooy, what's the next question? How do you encourage your partner to get outside of
38:36their comfort zone? And to clarify, without making them feel like they're not enough as they are.Well, why do you want them to get out of their comfort zone?Because I know that a lot of growth can come by trying new experiences and pushing yourself out of your comfort zone.In my own experience and in my own life, that is the best way I have learned how to grow.And I have had some of the best experiences of my entire life by pushing myself out of my comfort zone.but I don't know how to properly push my partner, motivate my partner, or ask my partnerto push them out of their comfort zone without them feeling attacked.It is important when you say push someone out of their comfort zone to first honor who you're
39:25dealing with. Yeah. Because your idea of what a risk is and pushing yourself out of isterrifying to most of us.And learning that you need to first accept the person that's in front of you and understand,and I love this analogy I've been sharing it a lot that Oprah Winfrey learned from PastorT.D. Jenks that there are 10-gallon people and there are pint-sized people. There are people whoneed 10 gallons of love, attention, risk, adventure, growth, deep conversations. And then there arepint-sized people who only want a pint-size of risk and growth and deep conversations,and it doesn't mean that 10-gallon people are better than pint-sized people or
40:08pint-sized people are better than 10-gallon people. We're all just a little bit different.But can 10-gallon people only be with 10-gallon people?No. 10-gallon people can be very happy if they recognize they're with a pint-sized personand they can lovingly acceptthat when a pint-sized persongives you the entire pint that they have to giveor they take a pint-sized risk in your mindthat they have done the impossible
40:39and learning how to celebrateand truly acknowledgewhen a pint-sized person takes what feels like a 10-gallon riskbut because you're a 10-gallon personAnd it just looks like a tiny lizard.Come on, you can do more.You just invalidated something that they did that was a big deal.Yeah.
41:01And not celebrating the small moves on somebody that's not naturally like youis the fastest way to shove them back in the cornerand make them never take a risk again.And so, yes, you can be very happyif you stop trying to make somebody they aren'tand you celebrate every,small little bit of growth, even though it's not enough for you.Is that helpful?
41:30Yes, very.What's the next question?I don't want to change my last name when I get married, but my partner, who's verytraditional, feels strongly that I should.Okay.And feels they would be deeply offended if I did not change my last name.How do we navigate a disagreement where neither person wants to budge?Okay.
41:52go a layer deeper. Why does this matter? What does it mean to you if I am introduced to somebody you work with or somebody from your childhood and I have a different last name? Like for me, I kept my name initially. I don't know why because it was Melanie Schneberger. Who keeps that name? You would have thought I would have dropped that sucker like a hot potato when I met Christopher Robbins. And I just kept it honestly because Iit was kind of a hassle to change everything.Yeah.And then we had you.And I remember we were booking plane tickets and something happened with the plane changingand us getting moved to a different plane and they separated me from you and dad.Mm-hmm.You had dad's last name.
42:43And it was the first time I thought, oh, wait a minute.I want to be a unit.Yeah.And so when life changed, I started to.Mm-hmm.I started to feel a change of my identity.Yeah.If you are in a stalemate with your partner on something, go a layer deeper.
43:01Help me understand why this matters so much to you.Help me understand if I'm introduced, let's just say, as Melanie Schneberger, what happens for you?What does that mean?And what happens if they introduce me as Melanie Robbins?And what does that mean to you?and then you explain, well, I want to keep my name because I have a huge career.Couples navigate this kind of stuff all the time.What religion are we going to raise our kids?
43:29How about both?What name am I going to go by?How about both?I keep my name professionally and on our marriage license and my driver's license.It's fine.You can introduce me as, you know, Mel Robbins, not Melanie Schneeberger, which now seems absurdbecause I have not had that name.for 25 years. What's the next question? I don't feel desirable or confident in dating anymore.
43:56How do I rebuild my confidence when I feel like nobody is choosing me? It is so easy, especially intoday's world, to feel like you're just reduced to a piece of meat. And this is going to sound likethe cheesiest and dumbest eye-roll advice. But if nobody's choosing you, you have to make some changesin your daily habits that make you feel like you're choosing yourself.And that is a wind chime that you're probably hearing in the background.And that's a wind chime, by the way, that was given to me when our dog, Amigo, died.And whenever it rings like that, I feel like Amigo's saying, yep, that's true.That's true.
44:38So Amigo liked the cheesy advice, but it's true.This is so disheartening when you feel like nobody's choosing you because you wonder what's wrongwith you. And there's nothing wrong with you. You have not met a person that deserves you yet.That's it. And it doesn't mean you're never going to meet them. It means you haven't met them yet.And what I would recommend that you do during this period of time where you're still single is what change, what habit, what hobby,What class could you take?What thing could you change that makes you feel really good about yourself?And I would highly recommend it something physical.
45:30If you've always wanted to learn how to shuffle dance, go take a class.If you've always wanted to learn how to be really good at jump roping.I see a lot of people doing that online.I'm like, hmm, I kind of would like to be really good at that.Go take a class.Stop putting your life on hold waiting for the right person.and start filling your life now with the things that you've been putting on a shelf for when you findthe one. Get in the best shape of your life. I can't tell you how important it is to understand
46:01that you change your mentality by changing your physicality. That when you move yourselfphysically, it changes your mindset. Physicality shifts spirituality, physicality shifts yourmentality, physicality, shifts your emotions. And that is something you can control. Getting stronger inyour body. If you've never gone to a gym and you've never lifted weights, march into a gym, spend yourextra money, not on dating apps, spend it hiring a trainer once or twice to work with you so that you canlearn how to walk into a gym and lift weights. Physicality changes your mentality. And somethingwill shift. And I know it sounds dumb and I know you don't believe it and I know you feel beaten downby life. And I know you're tired of going to weddings and engagement parties and bachelorette parties.
46:54I know you're tired of seeing everybody else live out the dreams that you want. I am telling youyou haven't met the right person yet. You haven't met a person who deserves to be in your life.And instead of succumbing to sadness, I want you to pull up your big girl panty.and I want you to choose a couple changes, even just one.I love that.Because the more time you spend trying to find somebody, chasing somebody, the worse you'regoing to feel.Stop looking and start looking to yourself.
47:31That's what I would say.Okay.So I have a few friends who just broke up with their significant other last week.So I have sent all of them the breakup episode that you and I both did.because there's so much good advice and tools in the episode that we did right here.But right now, what's the single most important piece of advice, one piece of advice,you would give someone who's going through a breakup and feels like their entire future just fell apart?You're right.
48:03Your future did just fall apart.And it was supposed to.The reason why you're breaking up is because you are not supposed to build a future with this person.and that's why the relationship ended.And it hurts because it mattered.And so the number one piece of advice that I want to give youis to understand that you're grieving.And it's okay to feel scared and uncertain
48:30and also somewhat excitedbecause everything that you've been thinking about,all of the things that you've been imagining,all of the role-playing and fantasiesthat you have had in your mind about how this turns outis dead and you're now faced with a brand new reality.And the number one piece of advice is honor that it's a big change and that it's going to take time.That's it.
48:59Great.And the hardest part about a breakup is not the breakup.It's tolerating the three months that come next.Even if you're the one that broke up with the person and ended the relationship, you're still grieving this future that you had.And your body is having to unlearn life with this person.Your mind is having to unlearn the fantasy that you are projecting over and over in your imagination.And it takes time.You will feel better in three months.
49:30Do not fill the next three months with a new relationship or sex with your ex because it takes you right back to day one.Incredible. Thank you so much.Sorry, those were excellent questions about love.and relationships. What's your big takeaway?What is my big takeaway?Well, I can see you're a slow processor like your father.I think that my biggest takeaway and what seems like a really big thread throughout all of your answers,even if you didn't say this, is just that communication wins every single time.
50:17Terry Reel, who was a very famous couples therapist, came on the Mel Robbins podcast and said,the most important thing to remember about relationships. You can be right or you can be connected,but you can't be both. And every disagreement, every standoff, everything that drives you crazy,every skill that you wish your partner would learn or habit you wish they would change,is an opportunity for you to go a layer deeper than the thing on the surface,and truly get connected to the person that you care aboutand understand what's really going onor what is the thing that is the deeper reason
51:04why something matters to them.And when you go and are able to get deeper beneath the surface,you will now have a deeply meaningfuland lasting and supportive relationship.All that stuff you want to change.Nothing's changing.But you can be more connected.You can truly support one another as you grow throughout your lifetimes.
51:34That's the best relationship.As a relationship with you both grow.Yeah.You really want to be a soft landing for each other.And you're not going to create that by feeling like you're right and it's got to be this way and I'm going to boss this person around.That's not going to lead to a relationship where you're either one of you'vehappy. That's what leads to people's drinking problems and cheating and like the passiveaggressive behavior and feeling like you're living on different planets. It really comes down to you
52:08can be right or connected. And when you look at this person, even though they're wearing a pair ofstained sweatpants and they fell asleep with the remote in their hand and the NFL games on and thedishes are in the sink, can you still look at them and be like, you're still my friend? You're still myfavorite person. I wish you'd lose a few pounds, but you're still my favorite person. If you can say that,you have a winner. You did a great job. Thanks. I love you. I'm so proud of you. Thanks, Mom. I loveworking with you. I love working with you too. Thank you for being so vulnerable and answering all thesequestions. Well, thank you for doing all this research. And I also want to thank you. Thank you forbeing here with us, let me know if you liked this format because I want to answer your questions. I want to
52:59know what you and the people in your life, particularly mother daughter stuff, particularly parent-childstuff, sibling stuff. I would love to do more casual episodes like this where you can participate.And if you're wondering, how do you ask a question? Get on the newsletter list. Just go to melrobins.comslash newsletter. There are more than two million people a week that read it. It's free. And it's reallyhilarious and entertaining. And I think you're going to love it too. But that's it. I just appreciate you.I love you. And I love you too, soy. I love you. And in case no one else tells you this today,I wanted to be sure to tell you as your friend that I do love you and I believe in you and I believe in yourability to create a better life. And I hope that something that you heard today gives you something to do
53:46or a different way to think about a relationship in your lifebecause when your relationships are just cookingand you feel more connected to the people that you care about,boy, does your life get better.And I really want that for you.All righty.I'll see you in the very next episode.I'm going to welcome you in the moment you hit play.
54:07Okay, there he goes.The cat is crawling in.So I guess he's ready to roll cameras.He's ready to roll.All right.We'll wait for Jesse to get her.Do I look slouchy?Should I be sitting up more?
54:21How are we doing? Okay, great. I love that we're starting this episode with Mr. Noodle, our rescuecat, on my lap. I don't know how long he's going to stay, but he is nestled right in.And you know what? I'm going to bet. I'm going to bet that he's going to be here for the wholeepisode because he does have kidney failure, so he's a little weaker than normal. Okay, here we go.What was the question? And the third reason that you should, what was the,a question again. And one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You knowwhat the lawyer's right and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educationaland entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist. And this podcast
55:16is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist,or other qualified professional. Got it?Good. I'll see you in the next episode.
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