The Mello Millionaire with Tommy Mello - Brokering Billions in Real Estate with Leo Pareja

Episode Date: January 2, 2026

Leo Pareja is the visionary Chief Executive Officer of eXp Realty, one of the fastest-growing and most disruptive real estate brokerages in the world. With more than two decades of real estate experience, Leo leads the company’s global strategy with a relentless focus on technology, agent empowerment, and industry transformation. Leo began his real estate career at just 19 years old, quickly rising through the ranks to become the No. 1 agent in the world at Keller Williams by the age of 28 and selling nearly 4,000 homes during a 15-year production career.Beyond business, Leo is a recognized industry leader and thought-partner, known for his voice on real estate evolution and change leadership. He also co-founded the Pareja Family Foundation, which provides scholarships and opportunities for women and underrepresented individuals to enter the tech workforce.He is also the host of Pareja Unfiltered, a podcast where he explores what it takes to lead, grow, and win in business. Check Out My Social Media:Tiktok  ⟶ https://www.tiktok.com/@officialtommymelloInstagram ⟶ https://www.instagram.com/officialtommymello/Facebook ⟶https://www.facebook.com/thomasmello/My other podcast:Home Service Expert ⟶ https://open.spotify.com/show/4WHQ3ldGThHsP1cfzNF33GLive Q&A submission form:https://homeserviceexpert.com/questionsLearn more about Leo here: https://www.instagram.com/leopareja?igsh=b2l6eGFudm01NG1y00:00 The Journey to Real Estate Success03:06 Transforming Real Estate with Technology06:12 The Future of AI in Real Estate09:04 Navigating the Changing Landscape of Work11:58 The Human Experience in a Tech-Driven World15:06 Finding Purpose Beyond Success18:11 The Importance of Family and Relationships21:06 Lessons from Business Exits24:11 The Value of Experience Over Material Success27:00 Influences and Inspirations in Business30:04 Closing Thoughts and Future Aspirations

In my 20s, all I cared about was awards. I wanted to be the number one agent on the planet at the largest company in the world. I was very highly driven by that. I actually did it. And it was the most empty and meaningless feeling of my entire life. Bold, focused, unstoppable. Leo Pereja is a real estate force, entrepreneur and culture shifter. Agents who use AI are going to put agents that don't use AI out of business.

As CEO of ExB Realty, he helps steer one of the fastest growing broker. in the industry, changing how agents create ownership, scale teams, and expand globally. I think the next couple of years will be the most transformative years in real estate. From producing agent to executive operator, Leo has built, led and scaled multiple businesses, earning a reputation for decisive strategy, high standards, and straight talk leadership. With a sharp read on markets, people and performance, the agents that don't adopt technology get rendered obsolete by the agents that do. ready. This episode will challenge how you think, raise your standards, and upgrade the way you

build wealth and leadership. Welcome back to the Mellow Millionaire. Today is awesome because this happened to be by chance. I've got Leo Pereja in town, and he's an expert in sales business, real estate based out of Miami. You guys might have heard of EXP Realty. He's the CEO. And it's one of the fastest growing real estate brokerages in the world and a core subsidy of EXP World Holdings, the cloud-based company with market capitalization of around $4 billion. Appointed CEO of April of last year, 2024, Leo now leads a company that has transformed the traditional brokerage model

through its virtual first platform and innovative approach to agent growth and community. With deep experience as both entrepreneur and industry leader, Leo is uniquely positioned to talk about the future of real estate, the power of technology and what it takes to thrive in a shifting market. Thanks for having me, Tommy. I'm excited. And like you said, this was a happy coincidence.

I really appreciate you being here, brother. You want to just tell us, I always like to start with a story about how you made it and where you're at today and what you're interested in the future. Sure. So I'm born and raised into real estate, even though I didn't come from a real estate family. Most people enter the residential real estate space as a second or third career. I feel lucky enough that I fell into it at 19 years old while I was in college. I got my license and sold.

My first transaction was to myself at 20 years old. I bought a property with an FHA loan. My dad was my co-signer. I used my commission as my own down payment and rented out three rooms and house hacked before it was a thing. And then that summer I ended up selling my fraternity brothers and any sorority girl who took my call, 11 homes during my summer vacation and made $60,000. As they say, that was that tipping point in my brain where I said, this is what I'm going to do with the rest of my life.

I then went on to have a pretty awesome couple of years. Thought I was special and thought I was, you know, God's gift of real estate and realized I had a license during the greatest bubble in history of the world. Got my ass handed to me, lost everything. And the financial crisis turned out to be one of those very important education. processes of my life because that's where I went from being a entrepreneur, a self-employed person to a business owner. And I scaled and I learned how to win government contracts and do RFPs and became one of the top agents in the world. Then I went on to do a lending fund. And then I did a tech

fund where I ended up raising close to $50 million of venture and private equity and scaled that business to be 80% market share in the United States from a distribution standpoint to real estate agents. And after I exited those businesses, I got a cold call from the founder of EXB. And this is my first job in my 40s that I've ever had. And I lead a publicly traded company. And we're about $4 billion in revenue, about a $2 billion market cap company, but NASDAQ, you know, S&P 600. Where is the real estate market I had? What are you excited about? One thing is, you know, and I was one of the, I would say, louder voices during that whole thing. And I have strong opinions of the, you know, plaintiffs attorneys and I don't think they cared about consumers.

I think they're just trying to get paid. But more importantly, I've been a really big advocate for transparency. I think if you have a consumer first strategy, and again, this is agnostic of industry. You know, I think if you do what's absolutely best for the consumer in the end you win, and that's been my philosophy, whether I've been in real estate tech or finance, right? I think the goal of capitalism is to remove as much friction as possible so they pick your product and service over everything else. I think human beings go for the path of least resistance, right?

Whether, you know, it's my Apple watch and my Apple phone and my Apple wallet and my AirPods that are in my pocket. It's like four pieces of technology. And it's not that I'm obsessed with what Steve Jobs built as a human being versus the frictionless ecosystem he designed. Think about your favorite products and services. That's like the reason Jeff Bezos is one of the richest men in the world is because he made it painless for us to get what we want when we want it as soon as possible with the least amount of friction. Real estate is one of the most frictionful experiences American consumer makes. It is not simple.

It is not painless. There's a ton of complexity from title and mortgage and all the other things. So I don't, you know, I believe that consumers will still over index on having an expert advisor helped them through a super expensive, highly infrequent, highly emotional thing that they only do on average three times in their whole life. Where I think of the future right now, I think AI is going to fundamentally change everything. And that's not just hyperbilly. I actually found it at scale to tech company. So I'm more technical than the average CEO. That's not an engineer. Where I think everything's about to shift is the gatekeeping of technology is not what it used to be. So once upon a time when I founded a tech company, I relied solely on engineers to build everything

versus with the advent of large language models where you can vibe code. Even if it's just like the first wireframe and the layout and I can, you know, verbalize with context what I want it to look like and then give it to an engineer, that's a game changer. The speed at which we can do stuff. And I believe that in the next three to five years, most B2B SaaS products will no longer have the UI experience that we're used to, right? Most B-to-B SaaS products are an interface that's on top of a data layer. And I think what it's going to look like is more like that little talking

bubble where you either type into it what you want to know, like tell me how many garage doors we have an inventory. You don't actually now need to go to a display that has these predetermined visuals. Like how many customers did inbound calls did we get? You know, who have we not talked to in a while? Like, what supplier, like, pick your industry and pick your KPIs, and you'll be able to contextually talk to it. And so I spend, you know, I speak at conferences often. As of late, I feel like I have anxiety. I can't go fast enough, right? I'm, I'm 43 and I've experienced two gigantic tech jumps in my professional career. One was high speed internet. And again, I grew up in the real estate business, but prior to high speed internet, I actually had to drive into the office physically to look up listings. Zillow didn't exist. It was like this gatekeeping of information. I had to physically drive somewhere and then print stuff out and give it to you if you wanted to buy a house. And high-speed internet democratized that. And then the next giant step that changed everything in my industry was mobile. Right.

I went from having to print maps on a map quest. And we'd drive around with those like multi-page books. And so what both of those technologies did was actually compressed time. Right. So if it, it, It used to take me, you know, three or five days to schedule appointments and, you know, get information to people back and forth, fact stuff. I can do it in minutes now. Then mobile, you know, made it even faster because I didn't have to go back to the office to look stuff up. I could just do it in my phone.

I could schedule an appointment. I can get instructions on how to show property from my car. And so if something used to take days or weeks, I could now do it in minutes or hours. That's the gigantic leap forward that I'm seeing with AI. And something I'm hyper aware of is everything's overhyped in the short term and everything's underhyped in the long term. Right. So like I think everyone's, it's exhausting to hear AI as much as we do. But I think over the next five or 10 years it'll be more impactful than we ever dreamt.

And so it's this balance of staying in curiosity and testing and trying and not getting kind of lost in the hype. You know, we spent millions and millions of dollars building. Probably one of the more advanced data lakes with power of EI and pulling in from APIs. And I just went through 20 hours of advanced AI training and learned a lot more. Like I use chat chavit 80 times a day. It knows me. I do complex IRA, all this stuff. But now I'm trying to give it way more complex things.

And you've heard of N8N. And we're going in and I'm hiring the top mines. I can't pay $100 million to get one guy. But I'm paying the top mines that I can get because speed is everything. And we're building Chachabit Enterprise over the top of all of it. And that's, you know, I know a lot of private equity. I know a lot of these guys doing venture capital. They're looking at this stuff.

But lawyers are going to be out of work. I'm so glad 20 years ago I fell into garage stores. I didn't know that it was going to be, because everyone was going to be a developer, go into dentistry, da-da-da-da-da. And I'm like, man, I don't really like what I do. But now we're essential. I mean, during COVID we were essential. Now everybody I know that's a developer, most of my real estate.

state buddies, a lot of the people, even doing SaaS products are like, we want to go into HF, we want to go into Roofie, we want to do this. Because I don't think even though Tesla's going to have the robots next year, they're not going to be doing skilled labor any time soon. But that's what's scary to me, and I'm not considered the smartest guy in the room per se, but when I just heard Elon might be doing a home service fund, those aren't the type of guys I'm used to go in against. So I got to move quick, quick, quick. The one thing I found in our industry that you'll really appreciate is private equity guys can never build this company. They don't know.

They kind of look down upon blue collar people. Private equity looks down on operators because they're not. And so they still, private equity doesn't exist with the practitioner as an operator. And that's, you'll want, I was at this panel and there's five of the top people guys in the world. And they said, what we've learned is you got to figure out how to keep the founder in the business and still excited. And I think that they think, well, you can't cut your way to hire profit margins in EBTA. And I think that that's what they just said, hey, how hard could it be? We were placing garage versus an age vac unists and mowing lawns.

You know, we can hire anybody out the street. If they're not on time, fire them. And it's like, no, there's a lot more to this. Some of our people that didn't have a mom growing up, you know, some of them passed 10th grade, but they're really good, faithful, like, hardworking, loyal people. But you're right. I'm very nervous. I'm skeptically, I guess I'm cautiously optimistic.

Bill Gates came out and said 10 years, nobody will need a job. Like, you won't have to have, and so I started looking into that, what do you think about, and I'm not a socialist, I love capitalism so much. I was at the founder of service, he goes, I'm, I'm so sad because my kids won't have a purpose like I do, to build something from nothing. Like, what do you think is going to happen? I mean, AGI, when is this happening? Nobody knows, what's your speculative?

And then what happens to society and wanting to, grow yourself. That's a very, you know, open-ended question that no one actually knows the answer to. So the one thing that I do know, and again, I'm an optimist and I think we have to be to be entrepreneurs. Like it's not a choice. It's a DNA thing. So one is I would go back over 2,000, 5,000 years of recorded human history. And, you know, the printing press fundamentally change society. And knowledge was gate kept by scholars and the church. And when the first books were printed, it allowed for literacy at scale, right? And then the railroad and the engine, right, there's been these dramatic jumps in productivity. If you actually

read headlines from, you know, the errors of when this happened, it was the end. It was the end of the world as we knew it because these jobs were being eliminated. So one is, I think we're a tribal species. And what that means is we crave human interaction. So I think as certain repetitive jobs go away. And when you look at any advancement in technology, it's normally that. It's some logical process. So I think over time, we will over index on human experience. And I was recently about six months ago at an event with a bunch of private equity and some of the biggest direct to consumer brands in the world. It was super interesting because the capital allocators were investing in in real life events from sports teams to arenas to non-replaceable human experiences.

And then the direct-to-consumer brands were actually investing in similar opportunities that had direct-to-consumer live events, meaning that let's talk about the last couple of hype cycles you and I've been a part of. I live in Miami. That's the epicenter of the crypto hype. Five, six years ago, I couldn't go to anything in Miami and have some. tech crypto bro tell me about how everything was going on chain nfts were going to replace all smart contracts and and like again i live in the epicenter of it and like six years ago was like oh this is happening definitive and someone would come up to me and me say uh title insurance

and settlements won't exist because everything's going to be a smart contract and again kind of like you just said just fire them i'm like do you realize that titles kept across 3,500 disparate municipalities in this country with different rules and states. And do you know that that's all like government regulated? And like there is no magic button wand anything. And so when when I hear, you know, we won't have a purpose all like, A, I don't see it from a technology standpoint. And two, like we designed the stuff and we built it.

And I think we'll still crave certain parts of the human experience. So I have a habit of not worrying about stuff. can't control. It's tough. I mean, when you think about EGI, when you think about this code is smarter than all humans combined. And people think it's 10 years. Some people think it won't happen in our lifetime. But the one scary thing is you had robotics. And next year, they say they can make basic mills, they can walk the dog, they can do tasks. They can mow the lawn. That's the beginning. And when it starts to learn on its own, and that's why these data centers, now it's a race against China, but I still feel like it's the best opportunity I've ever had. 10,000 baby

members a day retiring, 12% of the moment of business. Most of them don't have a next of kin. There's so much opportunity. But it is to me is like I enjoy myself. I go on vacations. I do fun stuff with my fiance. I'd never been married, no kids. So I haven't started that chapter yet. But it's a race and it's speed. And I'm out learning all the time. That's why I love this podcast because I'm learning so much from you. Have you seen all that show about Uber? is they had to cheat, what did they call it, the gray zone or whatever, where they used to get around regulations in Portland in some other areas. Like, you got to break glass to get these things through,

but somebody's always going to figure it out. I was watching this investment panel, some of the smartest people in the world on AI, they said, I wouldn't invest in what's hot today. You're not probably going to rebuild Chachibati, but there's something next coming. And that's what venture capitalists do. They take 20 shots and hopefully one of them score. Well, the way I verbalize it to someone this morning,

when we were talking about AI, I said, listen, we're playing with Napster and MySpace. I don't believe Instagram and YouTube have showed up yet. And so what I'm encouraging everybody is to stay in curiosity, try taste, right? I like that. I like that analogy. Like, look, MySpace was first, and Facebook improved upon two or three things. And like, you know, my kids and folks that are Gen Z have no idea what I'm talking about when I say Napster and Myspace. or lime wire.

And let's just go down to that analogy. Limewire and Napster failed because they didn't understand copyrights, right? It was simple stuff like. And then YouTube basically, right, a distribution of content came up about and said, hey, we're going to only do it with unique stuff that you give us the rights to. And then boom. But LimeWyer and Napster were first. Oh, yeah.

And then, you know, Facebook and Instagram, MySpace was first. So go back to the last, the end of the 1800s. with the Gilded Age in the United States, we had 118 railroads. Within like 30, 40 years, we had three, right? So there's this, like, crazy boom in opportunity, right? I like to say that capitalism, I said about the removing friction, but the goal to create opportunities or a lead funnel in any business is to have an outsized return on effort or dollars, right?

Meaning if I spend a dollar and I can make $5, whatever a funnel is, whatever customer acquisition channel you go after, you do it for. you do it for as long as possible. And to quote Gary Vaynerchuk, marketers ruin everything, right? Because if you do it very successfully, every other competitor goes, well, Tommy's crushing it with this one strategy.

And you will be able to do that for 36, 12, 18, 24 months. And then everybody else will catch up or the platform will monetize it differently. I think a pizza hot 20 years ago said they make most of their money off of data. I heard this stat yesterday day that when a lead converts through chat GPT, it closes at like 600 times better than Google.

And the reason, in two people trust it more. Intuitively, we trust them more because as of right now, they haven't put sponsored ads. But they will. I promise you they will. Why wouldn't they? They haven't figured out how to make money yet. So when you look at almost every product, go to market, you know, land and expand, get as much reach as you can, and then you try to figure out the optimization for monetization.

But I'll give you a sample size of one question. In your sphere of influence, Facebook, Facebook and LinkedIn, probably the two most prolific ones for this example, have you noticed in the last six months, friends that, you know, couldn't string a sentence together are now Shakespeare? I have noticed that. An instant, like intuitively, right? Like, you can, you can see the person's name, and then all of a sudden you read the first two sentences, you maybe see the M-Dash or you see the emojis.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. How quickly do you go, you just skip, like, you don't actually read it. Immediately, you invalidate the robot. You're right. Exactly. So right now, the reason leads convert so much higher from a chat GPT response is because we still trust it. Like, we will build a reaction.

So 1999 email open rates was ridiculous. It was like 20, 30, 40, 50 percent on a cold list. We loved email so much. Tom Hacks made a movie about it. And do you remember how excited you were when you got a phone call, like in 2002? Or even the doorbell rang. The doorbell, text message, email. We're like elder millennials, right?

Like they said we were the first generation not to see the sidebars in a browser. Right. So this is a moment in time. Nothing lasts forever. No funnel conversion metrics. Because what happens is if somebody hacks it and figures out how to get a file. to one return. That's called arbitrage. Everybody runs towards it. Either the platform monetizes at a better clip, right? Facebook ads, YouTube ads, Instagram ads, or everybody does it,

and you'd get down to like a one to two return, a 1.5 return, and then that's diminishing insurance kicking. Well, yeah, you know, in the garage drawer industry, you know, I studied, 2017, I decided I'm going to go study HVAC because it was a $250 billion market cap. Bras was a 10 at the time. And I said, who's got all the private jets that I know? They're all each guy. So I went to every $100 million shop in the country. I learned what financing meant. I learned service agreements. I really studied arbitrage and EBDA, EBDA, Ibadah. And that's, so we built in the same framework. But now we're building all these tools like AI dispatch. Like, now it can do regression testing. It could actually dispatch for dollars, put Tom Brady in the Super Bowl at the

right time. It could understand the best person to run that job. Like, if you're an elderly person that was a vet and we can match that up, we know we're going to be more successful. It's really not bad things to do. This isn't like black hat wrong things to do. And I'm trying to stay above board with everything we do. And it's a race, I think. And you're right. A lot of people try to rip off and duplicate, but it's very hard to, I always see we're a technology company that does garage doors. The problem I have with most of my vendors is it's very, very hard. If you think about a garage drawer, how many different variations, permutations, and just you can get different sizes, different insulation, different styles, different window sections,

different radius track. So a lot of it's made on demand. And you can't, there's no small machine that I can make your gutters. Like these are massive, 25, 30, each machine's a 30 million machine. It's got to be warehouse. Somebody might come up with something to keep it a little bit closer like Amazon did. But that's why I like this industry because of combinations and everything else. So it's Like, how do you get the product quicker, better, faster for your clients? I've always loved industries that have a higher barrier of entry or legal complexity. A higher barrier of entry. A high barrier of entry.

That's the problem is anybody can start a garage drawer company off the streets. They're not much licensing. But maybe for the installers, right, versus the manufacturers versus how much you convert it. Yeah, you're right. There's not a lot of great manufacturers that can compete. What I like, what we're trying to build right now is systems to talk to their systems. Like I want to know what's on hand. Did you have a mess up order?

And I could call my client and be honest with them and say this was a order that messed up with the manufacturer. I could get this in the ballpark you were thinking because they're selling to me for pennies on the dollar. And those are like the advanced thinking. I love this stuff. Have you ever heard of a guy named Greg Hague, 72 sold? So Greg lives down the street in Paradise Valley. Known pretty well. He's starting a car.

He's all over to the TV only here, I think. He used to be. But he's like, you know, Tommy, he's like, the way I'm running this is I'm not going to take any fees to sell a house. He goes, I own the title companies. Most of the time, they don't have to use my title company. I also now own, you know, the pest control companies when you move in. I got access to the pool company.

He's like, I'm playing the long game, but he goes, I'm making it a lot easier. You know, sometimes they'll use my lender. And so, and he's like, even if they don't, he goes, eventually someone's going to do it. What are your thoughts on that? Yeah, no, I believe in capitalism. I think, especially like specific to our industry, one of the things that I don't think was well articulated during all that litigation last year is we actually have had multiple forms of doing things, right? There's companies that do it for a flat fee. There's companies that will do it per per per percentage.

There's companies that will do it a la carte fee. It's pretty straightforward in business. And this applies to your business. If you are too expensive, you've got a business. If you do it for too cheap and don't have that magical Ibita word that neither one of us can pronounce well, you got a business, right? And there is a happy medium between the product and service you're willing to render a consumer for the product and service they're willing to accept, right? So both Walmart and Whole Foods will sell you ahead of lettuce or blueberries or paper. And, you know, at Whole Foods, it's going to be like organic and, you know, disintegrate when you're trying to wipe your hands versus bounty at Walmart.

And both are phenomenally multi-billion dollar businesses. They serve a different consumer sector. It's a different experience level, right? Front of the bus or a PJ versus Spirit and Frontier. Both get you to where you're going. They service a different customer. And I think the argument of like, I'm playing the long game, I'm like for a certain segment of the market.

And this is the one thing I love. And it's very an American ethos, right? So Canada, the top four banks in Canada, service 80% of the purchase mortgage business in Canada. Four banks, 80% of the market. Number one in the U.S. is Rocket, right? We all know who Rocket is. Yeah, when it has them works there.

They have 8.6% market share. Are they out of Detroit? Out of Detroit. Yeah, that's where I'm from. It's good US, right? 88.6% is number one in market share. Yeah, that's more less than 10th. We have thousands of lenders and then it goes down from there.

Right? So no real estate company, no garage door company has 100% market share. Forget that we have the Sherman Act, but by the way, which is 70%. That's why you need a strong competitor. That's why Bill Gates gave Steve Jobs the money. Right. And when, I don't know if you know the story of Japanese cars in the U.S., but like when Honda was growing so fast, they actually launched Acura as a subbrand to create a competitor. So it's part of our American ethos as a culture.

And so I don't, I don't like, good, let him create a differentiated. product. And, you know, again, one of the things that we do is a company is I look at myself as a platform. So like, I want to be the iOS in the app store and let my agents build their own apps, right? Versus, I'm not trying to build a super app. And so 72 sold has their own mousetrap. And they'll capture some market. And so will other agents, you know, with ranging business models. Where do you spend your money? I mean, literally, like, you've probably got enough money where you don't need to work. So the fun part about being a human is like there's no, rule book or rule set that has to happen, right? And I'm a, I'm a husband and a father and my kids

are 10 and 8. And one of the thoughts that I've been really hyper aware of right now is that there's seasons to life, right? In my 20s, all I cared about was awards. Like, I wanted to be the number one agent on the planet. And I actually achieved it by the time I was 28 at the largest company in the world. I wanted, you know, 30 under 30. I wanted number one in the world on this list and number, and like, I was actually very highly driven by that. And the craziest thing is I actually, I, I, the dog caught the car. Like, I actually did it. And it was the most empty and meaningless feeling of my entire life. Um, because I didn't feel any different. My EBITA was not higher. It was actually probably lower than other years where I was optimizing for net net profit. Um,

and so I feel very, very, like, very different. Um, my eBDA was not higher. And so I feel very, lucky that I got my ass handed to me in my 20s. Right. I lost everything and rebuilt it before I had kids. What it put me is in these really interesting relationships and rooms at a very young age. And I asked every single older man or woman who had made hundreds of millions of dollars what they would do different. And they were all super clear.

Like it didn't even take two seconds that it was don't screw up time with your family and your loved ones. You can't get it back. And so the other thing they told me. is there is an indifference point past a certain number. And I've had friends exit from $20 million to a billion dollars. So, you know, the last two companies, my wife and I exited, we already had the house we have. We live in a very nice neighborhood in Coral Gable, Miami. You know, I have a Model S with everything on it. She has a Model X with everything

on it. Our kids go to one of the best schools in Miami. Nothing changed. Like past a certain indifference point. What is that point? What is your view of that point? Because I just started on, Andrew Tacey and 25 million was... So I hear the 20, 25 million all the time, but the reality is it's for the lifestyle that you optimize for. So one of the things that I can tell you as an entrepreneur, I held resentment to the words lifestyle business or S&B because they felt not big enough. And then I went and did one where I raised a bunch of money and had big numbers involved.

But the reality is, I think most of us, and again, I blame the culture and the good. glorification of the entrepreneur and the massive eggs and the massive raise. But at the end of the day, it's like, how much money do you actually need to live the life you want to experience the things you want to experience? And so I am eternally grateful for the stuff I can't control, meaning like my DNA, my IQ, the parents I had. So I have a lot of context to that statement. And so, you know, I don't think we can control certain parts of the DM, but I like, I don't need or want for stuff. right like I don't I don't have sports cars I love spear fishing in the water but I don't buy a boat because I've done the math and like charting's cheaper so that that question I think is like

how do you how do you prioritize time and effort like for me time with my 10 and 8 year old and my wife my siblings my parents my cousins is actually the most valuable thing on the planet for me and back to the DNA thing it's probably because I'm Latino and I was bred to do that But it's how I prioritize things. So for me, it's experience over things, right? Like we spend two to three months every summer on the road with the entire family. And I run a global company. So we spend time in the south of France and Barcelona and wherever we want all the way to, you know, the West Coast and surfing Costa Rica.

And again, like, that is expensive, but I don't, you know, have a Ferrari habit. So I think it's – and by the way, there's no right or wrong. Like this is like there's no rule set here. And the one thought I go back to all the time is in two generations, no one will remember you or I lived. Oh yeah. So just really enjoy the ride. That's really good, man.

I really like that. So, but you still, you know, Gino Wickman, you familiar with him? Mm-hmm. Yeah. He was on a podcast recently and he said, I sold my EOS system, 87 and a half percent of it. And he goes, Tommy, a massive pot of gold. I won't even go into the numbers, but I felt so. empty. And a lot of people have that when they, they sell their business, they got freedom,

they could do whatever they want. But they kind of lose purpose. There's a great book of Man's search for meeting. I talk about it in every podcast, I think, but you still want to, like, like, like some people are like, man, I retired for a year. And I just was like driving myself nuts. Yeah. So, so A, I love his stuff. And we actually have a partnership with the OS that we, we preach in our, in our ecosystem. B is part of the entrepreneur. entrepreneurial experience is that it becomes your identity. So I've exited three times. And, you know, after the first one, it was painful and traumatic. And then the second one, you're like, okay, now I like, no one to expect. Simple things like, hey, my email is now Leo

at leopraad.com. It's no longer at the business. Right. Right. Because that's like that email was with you for five, 10, 15 years. Like even just little things of how you log into the bank, you have to change that email because that domain no longer belongs to you. Right. Yeah. Right. And So one is identifying who you are outside of the identity you've built as an entrepreneur. By the way, I spent about six months spearfishing. I got really good at it. I'm a rescue diver. But, you know, as I was on my third spearfishing trip of that week after we sold the last

business and I was contemplating buying the spearfishing charter, I was like, whoa, whoa, like my brain's doing that thing where like I think when you are a builder, that's your thing, right? So look, I know people who sold their business and buy a ranch and become like really good at that. But then they optimize and love and play and do that. So again, most things you can't know it without experiencing it. Right. So like that famous Jim Carrey quote is to that. It's like I wish success and money and fame on everybody so they know how empty meaningless it is.

You don't know what you don't know. And there's a principle that I talk a lot about. I did a keynote about it yesterday. where I said progress over perfection, progress over destination. Because like there is a body of psychology that says that the only commonality on happiness comes from progress. Right. So take the woodworker who can take a piece of wood and turn it into a chair.

Take the steel worker who can take, you know, raw and turn it into a sword, a hammer. There's actually a documented amount of happiness in manual labor and blue collar work. of taking something that's wrong, turning into a completed product. I view myself as highly creative, even though my canvas is business and sales and conversion. Like, if we can go from X to Y,

I like that. And it's that iterative process that I enjoy. And so, again, I've been pretty fortunate to do it in multiple industries and experience it. But once you zoom out and you understand, like, demand, CTA, CAQ, LTV, Ibitra, margin, gross, net, all that stuff. Like, to me, it's like,

colors in a palette and I'm painting, right? And so, like, and I say that because I have an art degree. And so I actually did paint and do sculptures in college. And then I went into the business side and enjoyed that 10 times more. So I think it's just finding out what gives you joy and passion in the season of life. Like, I don't miss my kids jujitsu when I'm in town. Like, I travel very little. And when I do travel, I concentrate and try to do as much as possible, like fitting

this end because we were in town. What I care about in this season over anything is making sure I can take my son to Jiu-Jitsu, my daughter to her singing class, and make them breakfast and dinner. I have a math drives everything in my brain. Like my daughter's 10 years old. I probably have, I don't know, 700 put her to bed nights. But if you're just like, dad, leave me alone. I got it. Like, think about that. And so that's a finite resource that I can't buy more of. I love that, man. Yeah. Well, I was on this stage and I said, listen, guys, when I die on my casket, I don't want to say best garage or guy, best entrepreneur, best leader. I wanted to say best dad.

And I don't have kids yet. Well, I would want up that and said, when I take my last breath, I want those people in the room because they care enough to be there and hold my hand. I love this, man. I want to talk just a couple quick things. Then we'll get you out of here. You know a lot of people. Who do you look up to a lot in the business world and why? Because a lot of them are frustrated.

They're just not happy people. Yeah, no, I think that is a fantastic question. And I've been asked that a lot, like, who are the two people historic and all that stuff? And honestly, the question I always go back to my dad. First of all, we are all flawed human beings, right? So do not put anyone on pedal still, including me, right? Like, I'd say to my people, we're like, oh, you're this and that. Or like, look, at the end of the day, we're just trying to figure this out as we go along.

And you shared fatherhood as a goal. and it's by the way it's like central to my identity and what I love to do most. And I was super clear I wanted to be a dad from the like, since I was six years old, I was talking about my future wife and kids. To me is like, look up to the folks that you can learn from,

but don't put anyone on the pedestal. Like Steve Jobs is regarded as one of the greatest entrepreneurs of our time. If you read his book, he's kind of an asshole and a shitty dad. And I actually regard that higher in my hierarchy of needs, right? So when I look at someone I would admire, I want to look at like, how are they seen as a father, husband, brother, son?

That's way more interesting to me because everything else is just a skill or attack to occur system, in my opinion. You know, there's a guy you should meet. He's 80 now, 81, Robert Chardini. I don't know if you ever heard of him, wrote the book influence. He's an amazing guy, amazing dad, amazing grandpa. Is there one book that other than the Bible, the E-Men? the richest man of Babylon. I'm just going through a few here.

But is there a book that's kind of out of the norm that really just changed your life? Yeah, you have a couple. So again, real estate, right? Like the one that, and by the way, the question asked differently is like, did you remember reading the picture of Dorian Gray in high school or college?

It's a book about a character who reads a book and it fundamentally changes the course of his life. And for me, it was rich type, port dad by Robert Your Key. sake, right? Super basic real estate book. A lot of people in real estate said that that business changed their life because, again, being millennials, like, we didn't have the glorification of entrepreneurs growing up. Like, we were basically told to go to college and get a good job and hopefully climb the ladder. The corporate ladder, yeah. But that was the first book that

explained leverage of people time and money for me. You know, kind of almost in that category of like, that's too easy. But I'll give you a fun nerdy systems one that fundamentally changed everything in my brain, which is David Allen's getting things done. And it's, it's really, um, like a framework of how the brain works from short term memory to long term memory storage and how to create a, for, for folks who have the schedules we have where I've officially ran out of time, right? I lead an organization of 83,000 agents in 27 countries with 23,300 staff people. I will never get anything, everything done. Right. And so it's the radical prioritization of do delegate delete. Yep. And being at peace with stuff not getting done.

I love that, man. I would say I've got to delegate to elevate. I'm working right now, getting ready to start with, and my let. And I was used to listen to him, say, I could work three shifts in a day. And I just always looked at him and I always say,

I'll out delegate you all day. Like, I don't want to be in control. Like, and I want my people to fail fast. I mean, failure is not an option. We need to fail. But we'll just fail quicker. Why, there's a load in the gun, we've missed the target 80 times down we're in bullseye every time.

But again, going back to my seasons, like, when I was 21, I did work like 8 in the morning to 10 p. And that was the right season for that. Now I, like, don't want to and don't care to. And that's okay. Yeah. Right. Could I be more productive or more successful?

Sure. But, you know, I want my kids to be there at the end. That's so cool. How do people get ahold of you if they want to reach out, Leo? Social, Instagram, my name, at Leo Perea. I'll let you close us out, man. I know we should have talked more about E.XP and everything, but I just kind of went with this and just wanted to know more about you.

So, no, absolutely. And that's the beauty of this era, right? Like once upon a time in order to get to know people, like we happen to be able to do it in person. But even the ability to be in each other's orbit is because of this visibility trumps ability. So I would tell people to stay in curiosity and taste and play, right, whether that's AI or social. I think there's this paralysis by analysis of I have to get it right. And in this era, I think volume trumps everything. That's probably true in every era.

but I'm hyper aware of it in this one. Well, it was a pleasure to have you on. I really appreciate it. This was killer. Thanks so much for listening to this episode. Like always, we're going to close it out with the Tommy Truth, which is a little slice of wisdom from me to you that can help guide you in whatever you're striving towards right now.

So I built my billion dollar net worth by reading books. You don't have to believe me, it's true. If you're a young entrepreneur trying to figure out how to become a millionaire, I'm going to give you five books that you have to read right now. The first one is by Daniel Pink. To Sell is Human. And it's a lot to do with behavioral science and selling is not a bad thing. Selling is what we do all over the world.

Every time you meet a girlfriend or you get your son to make his bed, you're in sales. To sell is human. The next book is a must. This one's a signed copy. My good buddy, Robert Chardini. It's called Influence. The Psychology of Persuasion. It's a must read.

It's a big book. You listen to it on Audible. Robert Chedini, the best psychologist in the world. The next one is by... Morgan Hossel, the psychology of money. Most of all don't teach how money works, compound interest, how to use it to grow it. And you got to read this book if you really want to understand money. The next book is by two authors I know very, very well, Dr. Benjamin Hardy and Dan Sullivan, The Gap and the Gain. This book explains to always live in the gain. Some people live in this world

where the cup is half empty. Live in the gain your whole life, you'll be happier. And the last one is by Tim Grover. I got to meet this guy. He's a gangster. He got to work with some of the best people in the world like Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant. Be relentless. Go after your goals. Don't let anybody get in your way. Read these five today. You'll be more successful and you'll become a millionaire really soon. And that's it, guys. We'll talk to you next week.