The Michael Knowles Show - 2 Liberals vs. 1 Conservative: BAR FIGHT | Michael Knowles, Oliver Niehaus, The Soy Pill

Episode Date: January 24, 2026

Michael Knowles faces off against two liberals—Oliver Niehaus and The Soy Pill—in this high-energy episode of Bar Fight. The fired-up live audience in Nashville picks the most explosive topics, and no issue is off-limits. From heated debates on culture, politics, and morality to rowdy crowd questions, expect intense clashes and unfiltered arguments in this rhetorical showdown at Redneck Riviera. Watch the sparks fly! - - - Today’s Sponsor: ZBiotics - Go to  https://zbiotics.com/BARFIGHT and use BARFIGHT at checkout for 15% off any first time orders of ZBiotics probiotics. - - - Become a Daily Wire Member and watch all of our content ad-free: https://www.dailywire.com/subscribe The Pendragon Cycle: Rise of the Merlin is finally here. Episodes 1 & 2 are now streaming exclusively on DailyWire+ 🍿 Watch Episode 1 "Island of the Mighty" here: https://dwplus.watch/ThePendragonEp1 - - - Privacy Policy: https://www.dailywire.com/privacy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Focus features in Blumhouse present. Obsession. When I have a crush on a guy, no one knows. Be careful. I wish Nikki love me more than anyone in the entire world. Who you wish for. Obsession is 96% fresh on Rotten Tomatoes. I love you so, so, so, so much.

It's blood-soaked nightmare fuel. We're gonna sponge and put on her. You have been warned. Obsession, rated R. Under 17, Animino Without Parent. Only theaters May 15th, with special engagements in Dolby. Last night, you spent two hours deciding what to wear to the party. This morning, it'll take you two minutes to list it on Deepop and make your money back.

Just grab your phone, snap a few photos, and we'll take care of the rest. The sheer dress and platform heels you'll never wear again, there's a birthday girl searching for them right now. Your one-and-done look is about to pay for your next night out, or at least the right home. Your style can make you cash. Start selling on Deepop, where Taste recognizes taste, You don't like Somali. So just come out and say that.

I might say that. No offense. Your acting is really bad. If you were a better actor, you wouldn't be here doing this Bar Fight show. Rock, put me in a bikini. Stranger Things is not really a kid show. Wait, I got to pushback. It's for babies. Your performance as a homosexual was entirely unconvincing. Welcome to Bar Fight.

This show where I, Michael Knowles, go head to head with two esteemed lives on topics chosen by you. Our first guest, you may know is the soy pill online. Yeah, like I know you identify as white Michael. but you could pass as some sort of Southern American. Until they are a citizen. You think the Constitution only applies to citizens yes or no? Our second guest, Master Debater, recent graduate of Oberlin College.

That would be Oliver Nighouse. Now here is how it works. We will be debating three of the most controversial topics of our day. The bell rings. We duke it out for that round, and then our friends in the crowd can come up to the microphone and pick a fight with any of us. But do not wait,

because there is a time limit for each round, and anyone who comes up to the mic can win special prizes and a seat at our VIP section sponsored by Redneck Riviera Whiskey. Gentlemen, are you ready? Oh, yeah. I have the topics right here. It is round one. Now, I'm going to read all the topics, all of them picked by my esteemed guests, and I'm going to try to make it unclear who picked which. You know, you can get Groch to make him into like a bikini girl, right?

That's true. Grock, put me in a bikini girl. Put me in a, editors, do not put me in a bikini. First topic, Netflix turned Will Gay. Second topic, keep them in your mind. There's a bunch of them. Second topic, vaccines are bad. Third topic, gay marriage is totally fake.

Oh. A lot of homophobes in the audience, okay? Fourth topic, the Somalis are more corrupt than Donald Trump. Oh. Wow. All right. Not a lot of Somalis in the audience. Fifth topic, Trump's economy is awesome.

And sixth topic, Trump is right. White people were treated very unfairly after the Civil Rights Act. I'm surprised people are here from the Civil Rights Movement. You guys were there for that. That's a little concerning it. I guess it's the Somalis, right? Yeah. Okay.

There we go. Whose topic? Whose topic is it? I believe that's mine. Okay. Praise it however you want. Yeah, that's not quite, oh, I phrased it, but that's totally fine. My prompt was that Donald Trump is more corrupt than a Somali daycare center.

So that's something I was going to bring up there. My argument, basically, is, you know, we need to focus on the fact that if we're talking about fraud specifically or corruption. You can't really claim to care about whether or not there's a daycare center that has kids or not. I think Nick Shirley did a pretty terrible job trying to uncover that fraud, considering he walked in there with a camera and was like, show me the kids. And they were like, no, we're not going to let you into a daycare center with a camera on your film crew. Two hours before they opened. And then he cried fraud. So, you know, I think that that's a bit ridiculous here.

And I think it's also very important to, you know, focus on where the fraud is here. So let's focus on some of this Somali fraud. So let's talk about Trevor Milton, who defrauded his investors costing tens of millions of dollars. He was sentenced to four years in prison. Oh, he's not Somali. And Donald Trump pardoned him last year. We can talk about Paul Walshick, who stole over $7 million from his employee's paychecks. He was sentenced to 18 months in prison.

He was also pardoned last year by Donald Trump. He's also not Somali. We talked about Michelle Fiore, who stole over $70,000, meant for a memorial to fallen police officers and spent it on herself, including her own cosmetic surgery. You guessed it, Donald Trump pardoned her last year. We could talk about Lawrence Duran, who ran the largest Medicare-related fraud scheme in history. Yeah, you know, there's a few more.

It's a long list. It's a long list year. You know, he led the largest one there. You know, we could talk about Philibesta Formis, who orchestrated the biggest criminal Medicare scheme in history over one billion. in fraudulent claims. You could talk about David Gentile, who defrauded over 10,000 investors over $1.6 billion. Donald Trump pardoned him just last month. Okay, so if we want to talk about fraud, if we want to talk about corruption, you can't talk about them unless you talk about the fraudster

and chief, which is Donald Trump. So I think it's very, it seems to me that conservatism people on the right don't actually care about fraud. They only care about fraud and corruption when it's committed by an immigrant, a person of color, or someone who's part of the LGBTQ community. because it's not really that fraud is what you're against. You don't like Somalis. So just come out and say that. Just come out and say that. Okay.

Don't bring up this whole scheme about that. I might say that. So, yeah, well, there we go. And that would be a little bit more honest there. So your argument is Trump is more corrupt than the Somalis. Correct. Because he used the pardon power for these people. Well, not just the pardon power.

We can talk about many other things. Absolutely. Let's take that. Let's take that first. Sure, we can talk about just, yes, absolutely. So surely you would agree there's nothing corrupt about a president using the pardon power, which he has the absolute right to do. I didn't say he's corrupt because he's corrupt because he used. the pardon power.

Well, you said he's corrupt. And here's all my evidence. He used the pardoned power. That he pardoned people who did corruption. If you pardoned people who do corruption, then you're pro-corruption. Okay, do you think Bill Clinton pardoned over 450 people, including 140 people on his last day in office, including many financial fraudsters, billionaire tax evaders, his drag addict brother, which has a residence later on for Joe Biden.

Not a fan. You would say Bill Clinton's corrupt. Not a fan. Do not like Bill Clinton here. Joe Biden pardons gives a blanket pardon to his brothers who engage. a lot of... Yeah, not a good idea. I don't think Joe Biden should have done that.

Yeah, absolutely. I do think Trump is unique in the way that he does this. And also, we could talk about crypto and Trump will be starting World Liberty Financial and investing and getting tons, hundreds of millions of dollars

from that exact meme coin that he came out. And then if we want to also talk about... Okay, hold on. Let's take that out of it. And he pardoned Chang-Jang Pang, who then committed that fraud and was also invested in World Liberty Financial. So there's like...

Well, if you want to let's talk that on those. You mentioned the crypto. Correct. Some meme coins and other crypto holdings. Correct. Is your claim that Trump's crypto business dealings are fraudulent or criminal? Well, I think yes, in that they obviously violate the amoluments clause of the Constitution.

We can talk about the fact that Jimmy Carter, when he was president, was required to sell his peanut farm before he became president, yet Donald Trump has been able to hold on to or loosely pass off all of his business dealing to his very immediate family, and that's somehow not corrupt. So yes. So you mentioned that the crypto thing might be illegal. I'd be curious to see if you could cite a law for that. on the emoluments point, the courts have ruled three times on Trump potentially violating the emoluments clause. What is the court said? The court on the amoluments clause? You can let me

which court specifically, Michael, ruled on this. The Supreme Court and what's the appeals court. Tell me about it. I'm sure, Michael, that they said it was totally legit and fine the same way they said that Trump can break the law and have no consequences for it whatsoever in any official act. There have been three. There have been three emuluments cases. The Supreme Court dismissed two of them in an unsigned order. So it could have been unanimous. And then they couldn't rule on the third one because an appeals court already dismissed that. So every time the Libs have tried to get Trump on a monuments, it's been completely thrown out.

Do you think that- You can't cite a law that broke with crypto? No, do you think then that the president should be able to have business dealings while in office that directly conflict with his roles as president in terms of whether it comes to upcharging the Secret Service for staying at his own properties and resorts on the taxpayers' dime or many other things like that. The accounting issue with that was already resolved. There was no admission of guilt and there was no criminal proceeding whatsoever.

Just because there wasn't criminal proceedings against something, do you mean that nothing wrong happened? No, I'm saying it's not corrupt, which is your claim. Hold on. Do you think someone has to be convicted of corruption in order to be corrupt? Well, I think corruption has a meaning, and corruption revolves deceit or fraud. And in particular, when we're talking about political office, we are talking about crimes. We have a way to adjudicate whether or not a president's committed a crime. Trump has not been found guilty on any of these fronts. Now, before we end, I think it is worth pointing out.

We've talked a lot about Trump, and there's no evidence he's engaged in any corruption. However, we haven't talked about the Somalis who have committed, by the most conservative estimate, $1 billion in fraud, potentially up to $9 billion in fraud, merely on the... Wait, are you citing the number of Nick Schuron? in the back of a car just adding up numbers and not understanding anything. From the, like, illiterate journalist, is that what we're talking about?

Let's go through the numbers. No, I think we'll hold on. You hold on. What I'm challenging is you completely have moved on from the crypto point by trying to talk about the emoluments clause and you've completely... No, he brought up the emigments clause. Yes, but you've completely brushed over the fact that Trump has started a coin

that is completely worthless, had all of his supporters buy into this and then rug pull them for hundreds of millions. Obviously, it is... It is completely... It's a reason. It's worth... It's worth nothing.

It's worth nothing. I didn't say it was a legal... You're trying to get off the Somalis. No, I'm trying to get you to get off of the Molumitz clause so you can talk about the crypto coin and how much it is insane that he said, hey, give me millions of dollars for this worth this coin. What law did he break? I didn't say anything about illegality.

I'm saying this is corrupt. The Somalis broke a lot of laws. Is it not fraudulent that Donald Trump stole millions of dollars from his supporters? It's not fraudulent at all. There was no fraud. There was no deceit whatsoever. Was it corrupt? Was it for corrupt to use his office and his position of power to steal millions of dollars from

he wasn't in office? He used his popularity from being in office. His popularity from being in office? Yes. Do we really want to do we really want to Okay, so just to be clear, your defense, your defenses, your defenses, well, it was two days before the inauguration, so it's okay that he stole all the money, right? He wasn't in office. Yeah, oh, okay, that's just to be clear about it. No defense is he wasn't in office. It's fine to steal money from a supporters. Especially one of the most successful businessmen of our lifetime. Michael's a concede here is that his supporters are stupid and it's fine because Trump was the president at the time.

On your point, though, before the bell rings, because you were cutting me off on Somalis because you don't want to hear it. The feed our future scam was the largest fraud of COVID, of the pandemic, a quarter, a quarter, billion dollars in that alone. A hundred million dollars of fraud when it comes to daycare, 14 million dollars of fraud already admitted to by a Somali. When it comes to autism, these Somalis weren't an office? No, they're in our country. No, they're in our country. No, they weren't an office. We're going to kick them out. Okay. Questions from the audience? Hey, everybody. Just, I really want to know. Yeah, sure. We don't like Trump. That's what you're saying. But is there something wrong with simply more deeply investigating the Somali fraud, but also just fraud in

general in the Minnesota area because like nothing wrong with investigating fraud but you look at the way that the Trump and his administration has the whole Doge scandal and how they found nothing they convicted no one and wasted a ton of money I don't trust the current administration to look into fraud when they themselves the scandal of that they are not able to find any fraud and they spend millions of millions of dollars and it's complete waste that's not that first of all Doge was not tasked with finding fraud that was exactly what they were marketing fraud and abuse was tasked with waste fraud and abuse I'm sorry was that not When Elon Musk came up, I'm sorry, to find the government more efficient. So you're saying they didn't say waste fraud and abuse a hundred million times.

No, it's literally their motto of what they had. Oh, you pivoted away. That's not actually what I ask. And North Korea is a Democratic Republic. So I guess it's fine, right? It's true. It's what they're named. It's in the name. The presence are from Santa. The task of it was to streamline spending and to reduce spending even that which was not fraud. And to find waste fraud and abuse. Some of it was fraud. Yeah. What's what stuff did they find. Because it didn't actually find fraud. What they found it somewhere like USAID was they found things they were spending money on that they ideologically disagreed with. Yeah, like transgender balleret.

People spend, yeah, of course, they were literally putting on transgender ballet. That's a real example. Yeah. Yeah. So what if we just go like this? We say, okay, hear each other. Let's move forward and try to focus.

Let's actually try to find the right fraud. Let's try to figure it out together as a unit. Because that could be a really good thing. I agree with you. Fraud is bad. I don't trust the administration to find fraud. They're horrible. That's fair enough.

You don't think the Somali has committed any fraud. Did not say that. Oh, this is a real possible. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Wait a fact. Hold on, wait on, no, that's not what I...

That's a specific example. Yeah, and if you look at the, what's the quality leering center or whatever, this is someone who had been investigated for malpractice and sorts of stuff before this, and I'm all for investigating that and making sure these kids are safe. Absolutely. Oh, good. And that was originally interesting picket there, Michael, where you said this, you don't think the Smalley's have done any fraud?

None of us have ever made that claim. Well, he just said it was all abstract and ideological. No, no, no, no, no, no. I said that about Doge. No, you said in response to his question just now. Because we're talking about fraud as a general concept, and Doge relates to fraud, even if you don't think it relates. to fraud. But I think it's really interesting, you pivoted to the conversation of, you don't think the Somalis have committed any fraud? No, I don't know. I think we should have an open, fair investigation

that doesn't involve a 20-20-year-old YouTuber named Nick Shirley, who doesn't know the word benevolent to be able to come in here and tell us that somehow Somalis are committing fraud because they didn't let him into a daycare center with a camera. That's a wrong one. Correct. And I am in support of a federal investigation. However, you know, yeah, I think there should be an investigation. And I do think, however, that should also involve the state of Minnesota. And we do see, hold on, Hold on. Hold on fraud. Why would we let them? There were people who did that.

Do you not think that there can be investigators who investigate what goes wrong in the government, who aren't the people who committed the fraud. The investigation is into Tim Walls for participating in the fraud. Sure. There are multiple types of investigations that occur. You can investigate if you want Tim, Tim Walls for orchestrating that. There can also be people who investigate in the state to determine whether state fraud was done. It's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, yeah.

So she's trying to make it ridiculous to claim that if I claim that there should be any Minnesota involvement in it, I'm claiming Tim Wall should investigate himself. Because that's what Michael likes to do. He likes to reduce this down. He likes to reduce this down. What I'm hearing is that a white suburban dad did the fraud and not a Somali. Yeah, well, he participated in it. But there were about 80,000 non-white suburban dads.

Send money to Al-Shabaab. But Michael, I'm going to go with you. They were in an office, so I don't think it's that bad. It's fine. You don't think the... They weren't in office. No, you can commit crimes when you're not in office. You can?

You can. I don't know where you're getting this idea from. Like stealing a bunch of money in a crypto scale? There's no... Again, I don't... You keep going back to Trump having crypto dealing. Well, you said he wasn't in office.

That was your defense. Well, he wasn't present yet, so it's fine. Well, these guys weren't present either, so... It's... You're talking about corruption in office, but then you're saying that he committed some crime, but you can't name the crime. You can't name anyone in his harm.

I said it was corruption as in you're using a position of power to market something as valuable to your, you know, your little shhead idiot. Here's a question. Has President Trump profited on the Trump coin? Yeah, absolutely. Then it has value. Oh, okay, for him specifically.

Okay. I guess. He admitted. He stole a bunch of money from his friends. And he's profited. He's profited on business dealing with an office. We'll get back to someone. He's profited on business dealings while in office.

I guess I would just say a similar thing of like I feel like the problem is, you know, Trump commit, which I agree with a lot of what you say about Trump. But, you know, Trump does something corrupt. And so Democrats say he's the problem and then vice versa. And so why you're saying let's have an open investigation into, you know, the Minnesota thing. But then you're poo-pooing, Nick. Shirley, you're poo-pooing, you know, the app. Because he's not a federal investigator.

Sure, but is that not telling that it took him to reveal it? Because federal investigators didn't. Hold on. He didn't take him to reveal it at all. As Michael talks about with Feeding Our Future, yeah, that was a fraud scandal that happened. And that was investigated. And that was found. So it didn't take Nick Shirley to do this.

Nick Shirley just came along with his camera and claimed that somehow this is indicative of some larger frauds game. There's $100 million in daycare fraud, too. So it's less than feed our future, but it's pretty significant. Which is being investigated right now. Yeah. So how are you claiming that these things have already happened when the investigation have not come through. Do you think that it's good for journalists to pursue facts? I think it's crazy to call Nick Shirley a journalist. I don't know. I think it's a better journalist than the New York Times.

Oh, I'm just talking about the NICS said before Nick Shirley made it. And now, you know, Tim Walz is stepping down from re-election. Has that not had an effect? I don't, I mean, we can talk about many things that led to Tim Walls not seeking re-election. I mean, I'll agree with you once. I think being on the failing vice presidential ticket isn't exactly a ringing endorsement of you continuing to run the state. So I'm not, in terms of terms of political realities here, I might agree with that. I also think the fact that Tim Walz's family was being, just being insanely harassed there in terms of literally people going to his house and screaming the word retard at his son. Okay, and you, I'm sure you think that's funny, but I actually do think it's pretty, you know, vile, a vile thing to do. Do you think that's someone's family's been harassed at all? over the last 10 years?

Yeah, and I don't support people going after his children or something like that or going after making up these stories that his granddaughter is gay. I think that's a bad thing to do. It is. It's completely unfair because Trump lives in like a penthouse and you can't scream retard from the ground floor. Like, New York is very small. We need to make Tim Walts and a skyscraper put his family up and then it'll be even ground. Then I'm okay with it.

Tim Walz has taken enough taxpayer money. I'm not sure that we need to put them up in a penthouse. Do we have another question? Hi, guys. This isn't a question. This is just a comment. I think it's a little disingenuous, Oliver, that you read that list of all the

Americans that were supposedly committing fraud. Yeah, sorry about the facts. Yeah, we have to deal with their, we have to deal with their nonsense and whatever, you know, means that we deal with it. But these Somalis, they're coming over and they're committing the fraud. They are not Americans.

They come from a different country and they bring their garbage with them. We don't have duty to deal with their nonsense. Hold on. What do you mean? We don't have to deal with their nonsense because... Because they're from a different country. Hold on.

They're not citizens. So do you think, people who, when I'm talking about illegal immigrants versus legal immigrants, do you think someone who's a legal immigrant who's here? They're not necessarily, they're not necessarily a lot of that. A majority of the Somali population is legal immigrants that Ken Aver

came over from the Somali Civil War, which by the way, we exacerbated. Hold on, sir. We exacerbated. Give me a break. We dropped a big fucking helicopter in there and then killed a bunch of them. Yeah, they need to stop committing terrorism. They need to stop devenilizing their free country. There's a civil war. There are two factions. This is not, oh, all the Somalis are just shooting

stuff. It's a bunch of turmoil that we exacerbated. A bunch of immigrants came, fleeing the violence, the people that weren't shooting at us. Now they are integrated into our society and now you're saying, oh, well, they're not American. They're literally American citizens. Is it your contention that the Somali Civil War, which we aided in, we provided aid,

is your, and lost personnel because of it, is your contention that Somalia didn't experience mass violence before 1991? No. No. No. That's a different claim, Michael. We exacerbated and allowed people to come in to flee that violence.

Part of which was because of us are integrated into our society. They are... You can finish your sentence if you want. They're American citizens. They're not immigrants. They're literally not citizens. A majority of them are citizens. Right.

Okay. So, we have to decide who won that round. The Somalis lost that round. There's no doubt about that. Was it... The soy pill. Blue or red? Blue red. Blue red. Lundered paddles. Was it Oliver? Oh yeah, blue and red, that's right.

Blue red. Put up the blue. Hold it up. What color one, blue red. Michael, are we in Nashville? Will Michael stacked bar vote in favor? I look, I don't stack it. There we go. It was like 50-50 last time. I think it was, I've seen what makes them cheer.

There's a more important decision to make. Who was the best questioner of that round who gets to go to the VIP table? Not going to lie, they were both trash. The second guy seemed very good faith. He's like, I acknowledge what you're saying. He's too nice. But that's what we need right now. We should get him a little drunker, so he's more angry.

That's fit. Yes, go to the VIP table. Second guy. The beautiful Molly and make far a cigars. Redneck Riviera. Okay. Now, you're going to enjoy your delicious redneck Riviera whiskey. And you know what I'm going to enjoy?

Zbiotics. That's what I'm going to enjoy. Folks, right now, if you go to zibiotics. dot com slash bar fight. You will find out that after a night with drinks, people don't always bounce back the next day like they should. Me, I'm an old man now, 35 years old. All right, I'm no spring chicken.

I have to make a choice. I can either have a great night or a great next day. That is, until I found Zbiotics pre-alcohol. Zbiotics pre-alcohol probiotic drink is the world's first genetically engineered probiotic. It was invented by PhD scientists to tackle rough mornings after drinking and, the science behind it is fascinating. Unlike the fake science and statistics, these people are peddling. This is real stuff. Here is how it works. When you drink alcohol, the alcohol gets converted into a toxic byproduct in the gut. Now, it's a buildup of this byproduct, not dehydration, that is to blame for

rough days after drinking, which I had no idea about until I looked into it. Pre-alcohol produces an enzyme to break this byproduct down. So you are actually addressing the root cause. Just remember to make pre-alcohol your first drink of the night, drink responsibly, and you will feel your best tomorrow. Trust me, when you've got nights like this, but have the early morning podcast the next day and still need to be present with the family after work, at least in principle,

then feeling sharp makes all the difference. You've got to get it. I'm going to open it up right now and have some because I actually forgot to have some before my redneck riviera. Right now, go to bar fight, go to zbiotics.com slash bar fight and get my keys out so I can open this up.

I hope you can get that open. I know. That might be an Andrew Wilson olive jar situation right here. I know. Better get open right now. No broad with this baby. This is pure American. Go ahead on over there right now.

You get 15% off your first order when you use code bar fight at checkout backed by a 100% money back guarantee. There is no risk. Subscriptions are available for maximum consistency. This is the longest advertisement in the history of products. Go to zbiotics.com slash bar fight. Use code bar fight at checkout for 15% off. Gentlemen, it's round two. All right, ready?

Don't bring me another. I haven't had my Zbiotics yet. I've barely drank mine. What are we doing? Hold on, all right. Do you just, do it all at once or? I guess. Are we, I'll... All right, ready?

Here we go. Do a little Z biotic shooter. Delicious. Wow. And how? Now, folks, you got to pick the topic. We've already gone through them. Which one?

I think it was... We haven't... Who's the vaccine? No, was it the... Netflix? Are you doing Netflix? Who says Netflix? Okay.

Wow, that's a really good point. You know whose topic that was? Can you take it? This guy right here. All right. Netflix turned Will gay. I think this point is beyond dispute because Netflix made this show and one of the characters is Will and they made him gay.

Now they might have made the actor gay. We don't know. He worked for the company for a long time. But what is also I think beyond dispute is they very likely made other people gay. And the reason for this is that LGBT identity is not merely a matter of hereditary, you know, born this way, immutable characteristics. It's also a social phenomenon.

Gallup showed that between 2012 and 2021, LGBT identity doubled in the United States. It's actually gone up even more since then. 30% of Gen Z now identifies as LGBT, which means there's either something in the water, or there are a lot of people in the closet for all of history, or... Wait till you find out how many left-handed people there are now. In our popular culture. Now, what's really strange about this is that we know that LGBT identity is not merely determined by genetics. We know this because of some twin studies, which measure all sorts of diverse outcomes for twins, including same-sex attraction, found that there's only a 20 to 37%.

I don't remember any of this in Stranger Things. What do you want? You learned a lot from that show, Michael. This was season four. Well, I actually looked this up. I was surprised you picked this. Hold on. Let me finish my argument.

Well, you just want to rant about game people. Let's talk about Will that specific gay guy. I think all will should be made gay. The two studies show that LGBT identity, same-sex attraction, is only 20 to 37 percent correlated with heredity, which means that there are other cultural factors here. And there's one really funny study on this that came out of the center for the study of partisanship and ideology. And it found that in the last, well, really between 2008 and 2018 or so. LGBT identity rose at twice the rate as actual LGBT behavior. And among young girls, they were.

Meaning they said... People identifying versus behavior. Meaning they don't do gay stuff. It's like they say they're gay, but they don't do gay stuff. Yeah. And among young liberals, I'm not saying you guys, but among young liberals, they were three to four times as likely to say that they were gay, even if they just did straight stuff. Which means that there's a social contagion here.

You saw this especially with rapid onset gender dysphoria, 1,500 percent increase in adolescent girls saying that they had gendered dysphoria over a 10-year period. So there's a social factor. Netflix made Will gay. They might have made the actor gay. they probably made other people gay too. Take it away. All right.

So, no, if you look this up, this is really interesting, because it's like slam dunk, like you can't even prove. Like, Netflix got the script that was given to them. And if you read the script before they even touched it, Will was gay in the script. In season one? In season one? In season, no, before it was sold to Netflix, the script he was gay.

In season one, that's why he's not gay in season one. He's absolutely gay in season. Let me, I can cite, look. So his mom says, he's not like the other kids, you know, his dad calls him queer and the, what can I say the, I can't say the F word on any of Canada. If you want. Is that, yeah.

You know, we're on YouTube, right? Maybe not the N-word. His dad called him fag. His dad called him queer. The other kid, oh, one of the police officers says he was probably killed by some other queer. He's been bullied for being gay

since the first episode of the show. He's been gay the whole time. Now, I will grant you this, the scene in season five where he comes out was very fucking corny. Like, that was the worst come-out scene I've ever seen, and I am a pro-gay person.

That was awful. You know, it was like the Lord of the Rings scene where they're like, in my accent, and I also support you for being gay. And I was like, all right, this is a little mine.

But he's been gay the whole time. He's been gay before Netflix even touched it. So as someone who knows that Netflix can make a lot of people gay, this is one of the few times where they just kept him gay. If anything, they were too subtle because you didn't even notice. So my gay door was a little off. And, you know, I don't know, from New York and L.A., and I went to a gay university.

Yeah, I was going to say, Michael, I really appreciate you giving us the opportunity to talk about gay representation and media. You start from House of Shades here. Michael Knowles, you haven't seen him there. I actually decided to look it up and watch it. It's on YouTube. It's on YouTube. I watched it on the plane.

That was a mistake. When you came on in a blue thong that really threw the kid up next to me, next to me there. So I just want to say, Michael, you think a lot about people being gay and shows. And, you know, this is kind of my point. You know, I was an actor as a young man. And, you know, you play a baseball player. No one thinks you're an athlete. You play a soldier.

No one thinks you're G. You play one half gay guy, and they call you a Finook for the rest of your life. But I want you to know that was a Yale thesis film, and that's the most heterosexual thing ever produced by Yale University. Michael, the problem was, no offense. Your acting was really bad. a better actor, you wouldn't be here doing the sparfight show. By the one convincing thing in that whole film was how much you were coming on to that guy.

That was the only thing I thought. He was like, wow, that looks like, and I'm in the Bay Area, that looks like a gay guy being interested in another guy. I have expert witness on this. I heard from a friend of mine, Milo Yanopoulos, who was gay and now he's not really gay anymore. And he's still gay. No, but Milo, no, he doesn't do it. He's got a whole counter to me. But Milo wrote to me, he said, Michael, I want you to know, as someone who has experience with this, your performance as a homosexual was entirely

unconvincing. So, look, I tap dance, I play ukulele. I like Cole Porter. I was going to say, I'm telling you, I have, I'm trying to put myself in the position of sympathizing with the LGBT's, and what I'm saying is a lot of it is kind of fake. So I think a pretty big problem with this, too, and Michael likes to cite this idea of like, oh my God, like LGBTQ identity has exploded over the past. Are you doing the gauge content right now when you're imitating Michael? I could, you know, that just came out accidentally with him, I think. You know, maybe. You might have to show me some conversion therapy methods that got you or where you are. But I think if we're talking about this...

Let's say there's homophobia from this liberal. You scratch the lips beneath the service. This guy's using the word fag. This guy's using making homophobic jokes. I kind of like it, actually. But I think it's really interesting. And if you want to claim that there's like some social contagion element to what's going on, I wouldn't even necessarily entirely disagree with you there.

I do think that, for example, like, you know, if a couple people, you know, yeah, I think it's very reasonable if you to say. I'm very surprised you to that. However, you can't only attribute it to social contagion. because societal acceptance can also be a huge part of this. For example, this is a really interesting thing I like to bring up when people bring up the statistics of how many people now identify as gay. Do you know how many people identified as being left-handed in the 1950s?

Very few. It was not that many at all. And after teachers stopped beating students for being left-handed, they actually started being okay, being left-handed and living that identity. So I think claiming that somehow, oh, now there's more gay people, therefore it's only due to the fact that it's become way more fashionable or trendy to do so, just overlooks the fact that we live in a society that now gay marriage is legal.

Well, actually, Michael doesn't believe it exists. It does. It's legal, but it doesn't exist. Yeah, it's legal and it doesn't exist. Yeah, definitely. But you admit, so you would say there is a social contagion aspect. Dude, I went to over the 30% of people are gay. 30% of people are gay. 30% of people. 30% of Zoomers. You don't think it's 30% are gay. If we're talking about gay, do we mean like people who are only same sex attract?

Or are we talking about bisexual? Whole rainbow? Whole rainbow? I think it'd be possible if 30% of people would also be bisexual. I'm not so close to be reasonable. Wait, wait, I need to know, like, how the stat was calculated. Like, are there reformed gays like you, or is it just people that are still gay? I am not a homosexual, thank you very much. That's what, that's what a reform.

That's what my Lord of you're not part of the 30% or he said he was a homosexual. Oh, he said he's not. There we go. It's amazing. These guys are just up here gay bashing me. I got a wife and three kids, thank you very much. We turn to the audience. Good cover.

Michael, I guess the question I have for you is, was this seriously a real topic you wanted to address? Because, who cares? People are gay. And Will, being a gay character on a show, like we've had gay characters and movies and TV shows for years, decades. Since at least you were in college.

At least you were in college. So I'm just curious why not bring up something of substance that's not just about television or less entertaining. Well, I'll remind you, you all voted for this topic. And, you know, this is what the libs always do. I have to say, they push something. They change the social norms, be it with regard to transgenderism

or homosexuality or feminists. or anything else. They change the social norms. They run massive campaigns for it. And then the minute you look at that and you say, hey, that's kind of weird. Why are you doing that? They say, why do you care so much? And I say, well, you obviously care. You're the one who changed the norms. And I think in this case, look, obviously there have been sort of foppish or effeminate characters in theater going back to like Euripides. But, you know, this is a little bit different. When it's a kid's show, you're representing kids in these sexualized ways in deviant and abhorrent ways. I mean, we're all making gay jokes and stuff up here. But this is kind of weird.

you know, and same-sex identity or same-sex attraction and transgender identity especially is associated with a whole host of terrible psychological and social outcomes. And so it just doesn't seem like a great thing. Wait, Michael, wait. Will was, you know, portrayed sexually in season five? Yeah, I think referring to his sexual desires as a kid, you're the one who said that's a little weird. If I say, I'm into woman, this is sexual. Just inherently. If I say I'm straight, is that inherently sexual? I think if you're talking about a five-year-old sexual desires or a 10-year-olds or a 12-year-olds,

I think it's weird and creepy. Will is like 17 in the show. By the way, Michael. In season one, he wasn't saying I'm gay. I should have to bring up Michael. You said kid shows. You can be gay when you're a kid. Stranger Things is not also not a kid show.

It's horror and adult theme. Wait, I got to push back. It's for babies. It's written horribly. Like, it's a terrible show. And it was not terrible because he's gay, by the way. And it was inspired by Stephen King's works. And I don't think kids are reading Stephen King or they should be, or at least.

Have you read it? You don't think kids like Stranger Things? And you don't think if it's only adults looking at like a kid calling himself gay, I think that's even creepier. And my only point is it's obviously a social contagion. You saw most especially with the transgender ideology, which is why a 1,500% increase in adolescent girls saying they have gender dysphoria in like 10 years is absurd. There's obviously something going on.

And maybe we can just acknowledge that fact and try to do something about it to discourage it rather than encourage it. And do you agree that it's possible at least that there could be some acceptance aspect to it? There's a certain demographic of people who are gay. and you can acknowledge them as being gay. And there might be some people who are like, oh, wow, you know, oh my God, I'm going to a camp with all girls and now one of them is she-day pronouns. Now everyone is she-day pronouns.

Like, yeah, like, I understand that that can happen. Now, how detrimental it really is once everyone goes home and, you know, figures it out. Can you also argue that it became less acceptable to be straight? No, no. What? No, I did. Actually, well, that's why, based on that study that I just cited, of straight guys, especially liberal ones,

who are in the Rainbow Coalition, trying to pretend that they're LGBT, I think that's proof of them. Because a lot of them, they'll say they're queer and not gay. Yeah. That's not new. Right, but it's weird that they're lying that they're gay in order to get with.

That's like a change. Anyway, I think that's why it's worth noting. Is, you know, sex is very important to human nature, and when you massively upheave all of sexual identity, that's a notable phenomenon. Okay. I do have a question about this topic, sort of. But first, I want to say,

or point out that it does make all the difference in the world with regard to the previous topic. Oh, he's going back to immigration. Yeah, we're going to go back to immigration. You were the one screaming at the table over there, weren't you? I was. And I ran out of time on the last one, so I got told they come up to the mic this time. Yeah, we're going to go back. Go for it. The point is that it does make all the difference in the world, the fact that they, it doesn't matter if they are here legally. They are not citizens. No, they are citizens. No, no, they are not.

No, no, they are not. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, you can look up on majority of people. You can look at it. You can look down. No, no, no, no, don't, literally, hold down. Let's calm down. And there are, quiet, quiet. Any of those things is not a citizen.

Yeah, I'm aware of that. That's true. Then the Constitution apply. Wait, it don't, no, no, no, I have to address this. I have to address this. No, no, no, the Constitution are protections. Do you think the Constitution only applies to citizens, yes or no. Yes.

No, no, no, well, I'm sorry. , I'm sorry. Well, I'm sorry. We have a lot of people, we have a lot of people who don't know the Constitution very well in this country. There are two centuries of case law to support that. No, no, it actually doesn't. Excuse me, sir, what is the Fifth Amendment to the United States Constitution? Tell me what it is.

Tell me what it is. You guys know all about the guys. No, no, no, no, no, no. Anyone out here, what's the Fifth Amendment to the United States Constitution? No, shall not kill, right? No, I'm confusing. I'm confusing. You're getting confused with the commandments.

What's the Fifth Amendment? What's the Fifth Amendment? No. You know, what's the Fifth Amendment? Are you, you're asking me. Yeah, because you're citizens, so maybe you should know this stuff about it. Which, by the way, all the Somali legal is absolutely no. If you have to become a naturalized citizen, you actually have to learn a lot more.

I'm asking about that. Yes, well, he actually probably knows less about this country than someone who gets naturalized here. And he's entitled to more of the rights. I'm an American citizen. The point that I'm bringing up here when we talk about the Fifth Amendment is the Fifth Amendment states that no person shall be deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law. It does not clarify citizens. There are specific rights that are reserved to citizens.

due process is not one of them. That's why those Somalis are being prosecuted right now. And it is very important that everyone has due process because if not everyone has due process, then none of us have due process. Because someone can say that you're not a citizen and if you don't have recourse to fight that in the courts, you're, you're right that these Somalis have due process.

Thank you. But the point that, you know, if we don't give due process to random Somalis, none of the American citizens, like, yes, we could. Why not? Hold on. Why can we just say, we'll give it to the citizens and not? How do you know whether they're a random Somali or they are someone who has either legal protected status or a citizen? Oh, cool. And how do you verify their identity?

That's called you. Hold on your ID card. This is how much. You check their ID and their immigration status. Who does that? The government. The government. So you're trusting the government to have unchecked power and to police itself. We check. We trust the government to enact our due process. Hold on. Yeah. And that's due process. And having the government and having the courts oversee that. Right.

What if ICE comes up to do. government to conduct trials? I trust the government to conduct trials more than I trust the government to not conduct trials. Okay, if we're going to have trial or not have trial.

I don't follow that. Who also is in charge? I'm not subject to the Constitution of France. I don't know enough about the France. You would be if you were in France. A couple things. It's about the people in America. The Constitution of America is about American citizens.

It applies to people who are in America. But first off, I don't know enough about the French Constitution nor that's the case. But look, how many Americans are, flags I have on me. I think America's better. The lady don't know about that. One of the things that makes America better than other countries is the fact that we extend the rights of our constitutions to all individuals who reside within this country regardless of protected status. Because that's actually what determines whether

you are a citizen or have protected status. If you don't have due process, you do not have recourse to fight a government that tells you that you are somehow now not a citizen. Just as a point of fact, due process did not make me or anyone in this room a citizen. Wait, I didn't say that. That way? I didn't say that. I said it determines whether you're a citizen. And there's no way for, yes, it does. Because if you, if someone picks you up, if ICE picks you up off the street and says,

you're not a citizen, we're going to deport you. And you don't automatically have a right to contest that in court. What are they going to do? Yeah, like, I know you identify as White Michael, but you could pass as some sort of Southern American. These Sicilians are racially liminal people. And the only way to make sure that you are a citizen is due process, which we're all entitled to do a citizen or not? No. No, I don't.

No, I don't. I'm practicing my guiki, geeky gawk on solo, but I don't have the Somali language either. Anyway, I trade that guy for like five Somalians. Can I bring it back to Netflix for one second? Can you do what for one second? Back to Netflix for one second? Yeah, okay.

Bring it back. So I know that it's a pretty big push that Netflix is making Will Gay is a win for the left, but it's odd that the only gay character. Who said it's a win for the left? Who the hell is saying, oh good. Finally, we have the Will coming out to. Everyone hated that.

He spent gay in season one. That's when they celebrated. What I was going to point out was that the fact that the only, the main gay character in the show is the one that has a demon inside of it. Yeah, there's traumatized by a demon for his whole life. Yeah, well, to be fair, he was gay before the demon, and the demon didn't make him un-gay, so it didn't really have an effect one way or the other.

You're right. Is this, this is like the Straussian reading of Netflix, that it's like a super-based trad, homophobic read of how you become gay. Wow. Crazy. So wait, when you said Netflix turned Will gay, is that like an acknowledgement of how people, become gay and that's a good thing or you're not a fan of it?

No, well, he made me rethink it. I thought it was bad, but now he's making me think it might be good. That's really thoughtful. It's tough because I... All right, before we pick the best commenter and questioner, first we have to figure out who won the round. Was it the libs? Raise your blue cards. Oh, man, my kind of night. Okay, all right, we got the...

There we go. Was it... Was it the me? The red cards. All right. There we go. I'm going to start having these of my own so I can be self-ful. congratulated on this. This is great. Can I stack a room with people who support me and they tell me how much they love me? This is almost like a Trump rally, guys.

This is incredible. And raise your card if I'm really handsome. It took a minute. It took out of that. I was uncomfortable about that. Okay, so that's great. I won. Now, who was the best commenter? I'm kind of torn. The screamer. I want to hear more about the terrible ideas that he has. I thought, was it the screamer?

Was it the screamer? Oh, yeah, there we go. All right. Was it the guy with the esoterror? reading of Netflix being homophobic. That went over their heads. I don't think they picked up on that one, Michael. Was it the first guy?

The thought... Whoa! But that first question was too calm and thoughtful. I can't imagine. So it was the first guy? All right. Okay, it was the first guy. Is the screamer even still here?

Man, that was a total fake out for the screamer. I don't even... Is he still here? I kind of... All right, I wanted to... He's just being abnormally quiet. He's fine. Okay. I just use echolocation.

to find where you. Enjoy your redneck Riviera bourbon, please, as well as a Mayflower cigar. It is now time for round three. All right, we're coming. This is the end? This is the last one. There's a lot of stakes here.

Vaccines are bad. Where's that one guy? He must have died. No, yeah. He must have died from not being vaccinated. Gay marriage is fake. Okay? I guess we alluded to that one earlier.

Trump's economic policies are awesome. They're all feeling it. They don't want to cheer for it. All right. Now. White people were treated unfairly after the Civil Rights Act. Yeah, white people. A little more than that time.

What do we think? This is a very gay show. Are we going to do, it's the gay marriage ones? Michael talks a lot about it. It's a great. That's fine. Okay. So whose topic was that?

Which one? Well, you changed all the topic. You read it your way. You read it your way. I was trying to hide. I was exactly was, if God hated gay people, he wouldn't keep making them. Gay marriage exists, whether you like it or not,

and if you don't like it, you can leave. Okay, so very interesting. Those are two topics. They are two topics. So which one do you want to focus? We can focus more on the second one. The first one, we don't, you know, we didn't talk about it. Okay, so the topic is...

The topic is that gay marriage does in fact exist, no matter how much Michael wants to pretend that it doesn't. And, yeah, that if you don't like it, then I don't know, be in one of those countries that doesn't support gay marriage, that you guys also seemingly don't like Iran. Iran. Iran.

Iran. Friends of Iran. fans of the Middle East. I don't know. There's not much gay marriage going on in those countries. So what's the argument? My argument here is basically that Michael likes to do this thing where it makes a very... It's about me or it's about gay marriage. I'm, well, am I responding to Michael Knowles and the arguments that Michael Moles has made? I don't know. Are you? I'm going to do that, I'm going to do that.

So when we're talking specifically about the arguments that Michael makes, what he likes to do is, what marriage is very specifically to involve a marriage that is, or a relationship that is ordered towards procreation and sex. I think that is a very myopic view of marriage that doesn't encapsulate many marriages that people exist in and have happier relationships with. So what Michael's probably going to do is he'd be like,

well, if it's not sex, what is it? And I'm like, well, you know, it's a partnership. And he'll like pretend, you know... I don't even need to be here. Yeah, you're going to be here. I'm going to be great. You can just listen.

So basically, my argument that I'm making here is a gay marriage exists. Michael can argue in some esoteric sense that it doesn't because even though people have been legally recognized as being married, they in fact did. We can get into if you want your bullshit

studies about how like it's bad for children when literally only two out of the 238 children who were studied in that, actually had two long-term homosexual parents. Who were studying? We're studying. We're studying. The 2012 Regeneres study that you bring up from the new family structure study. What about the 1996 study out of Australia or the 2013 study out of Canada?

I'm talking about the one that you bring up most frequently. We can talk about the other ones. I bring up a dozen of them. You bring up this one specifically. So I'm more talking about the marriage is a complex thing, and it can mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people. And the fact that gay people want to get married isn't a threat to your straight marriage. If it is, your marriage isn't that strong in the first place.

Okay. Okay, okay, I'm willing to interject in this debate you're having with me through you. So, you know, it's true that kids don't do well with same-sex parents, but that's actually secondary to your point, which is gay marriage exists. It does. I guess my argument is gay marriage doesn't really exist in the way that a square circle doesn't really exist. A lawmaker could come out and say, I pass the square circle law, and a judge could come out and say, we defend protections for square circles. But nevertheless, square circles would not exist. And so it seems to me it is intrinsic to the nature of marriage that it's a union between a man and a woman ordered toward the procreation and education of children.

My evidence for this is that is what distinguishes marriage from other kinds of relationships, friends, siblings, roommates, all the rest, co-workers. But furthermore, some of my evidence is that that is how marriage, well, the word matrimony comes from the Latin word mater, which means mother, so it's facially absurd for two men to be in a matrimony. There's no lady there. But then my historical evidence would be that throughout all of human history, every single place in the entire world, marriage has always meant the union of a man and a woman for these purposes. And that only began to change in 2001 in the Netherlands and then 14 years later in the United States. And I think they probably just got it wrong. It seems to me that if marriage does not mean what we have always understood everywhere across religions, across cultures, if we don't understand what it means, then marriage just loses its meaning. It is no different from a dating relationship or a,

I don't know, a business partnership or any other kind of relationship. So you don't end up expanding marriage. You abolish marriage altogether. I want to respond to that in multiple ways. One, so you're focused on this idea of it's order towards the procreation of children. And this idea, oh, I'm sure, if we're talking specifically, let's say that a couple decides that they never want to have children. Let's say they even both get a hysterectum, or not both get a That would be a little weird. If they become infertile, if they become, yeah, so if they both become infertile or have those procedures done and they get married, would you support that marriage even existing?

Because it can't be procreative. It literally can't ever. It's still between a man and a woman, but it removes that aspect. Are you just against that type of marriage? I suppose, I mean, if a couple merely suffers infertility, that obviously would not contradict the definition of marriage as being ordered toward procreation and the education of children. But if a couple goes in, they say, we're going to get married, but we never want to. have children. We both want to get hysterectomies or whatever. And so we don't want that. I would say

at a very, very deep level that is contrary to the nature of marriage. But because... Can they get married? Are you making an ontological? I'm happy to ask you. He is making an ontological argument. Yeah, I am touching on ontology because it's about what what it really is. You should explain. But how do you do that, though? Like, how are you going to make an ontological argument about marriage? If it's, if how we define marriage naturally and all these societies is how we come to a union with people and they make an agreement. Well, that's not how I do you go beyond that? Well, with ontology, I guess.

You know, I was speaking about nature. So the question, you're using a very fancy word, ontological, meaning pertaining to the nature of being or what it really is. And I suppose the disagreement here is many people who support so-called same-sex marriage think that words can mean whatever we say they mean, kind of like Humpty Dumping and Wanderlin. They evolve. They evolve.

They evolve. They evolve. They evolve. They kind of can't. They can evolve. They can evolve. Is the distinction for marriage just if you intend to have kids? No.

No? What is that? So to answer your earlier question, which is a very good question, if a couple goes in and they say, we don't want children or we don't think we want children or whatever, as a matter of the civil law, which has to be a little bit broader than the purest form of ontology, say, I would say, yeah, that's fine because the union of a man and a woman in itself is ordered toward the procreation because they can bump uglies, and that's, you know, birds do it, bees do it. So I would err on the side of grace there.

When we're talking about things of different natures, when we're talking about not just, you know, a liberal man and woman who want to go to brunch more often, but like two fellas or two ladies or three guys and a billy goat, that is fundamentally different. And I think that stretches the definition of marriage beyond any coherence. What about like the president having three different marriages and cheating on his wife? Is that like a more valid marriage than two guys who have never cheated on each other and have two adopted wonderful children? Yeah, well, I'm certainly opposed to divorce. I think divorce is bad. I think it's bad that we liberalize. You're against, like, just, I'm going to make it very clear.

You're against no fault divorce, right? Not against all forms of divorce? Well, I actually don't really believe in divorce because I'm a Catholic. But as a certain matter, I guess we have to have some kind of. Why do Republicans keep getting divorced? Say it again? Why don't like every Republican keep getting divorced? Like, Stephen Crowder, like Donald Trump.

Like, why do they keep doing it? I mean, look, the divorce rates have risen in recent decades because of the law, largely. So it's too bad. It's hard to take your marriage position seriously when your entire party says, oh, that's not valid marriage when I see tons of. happy gay couples. You guys can't seem to hold down a wife.

I mean, I'll give you like five, ten years. I don't know. What are you talking about? For now, you're only 35, I mean. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, I'm Catholic. The only way she gets rid of me is if she puts the pillow over my head at night.

Okay, it's time to get to the audience question. All right, here's a fun one. So I actually just got married three-ish weeks ago. Hey, all right. Wait, Michael. He didn't say, he didn't say, he didn't say. He didn't say if it was gay or not. I know, I've got to clarify for our friends.

Did you get married to a lady or? A beautiful lady blonde. Now we're talking. A real one. I'm going to have to see the chromosome chart on that one. I'm out of a fan. So here's the fun one. Ready? My identical twin brother is as gay as the day

is long. Wow. See? That's what I was just talking about. So we actually got in a debate the other day after we got married because I met my wife in March. I saw her and went wife. We dated long distance from Nashville to L.A. I got her to move here. Let's go. And we got married real quick.

And so we did start debating. And I straight up said, the different between straight marriage and gay marriage is straight marriage is like actually marriage versus gay marriage is more of a legal definition because there was a lot of gay couples who just wanted the benefits that the government was giving them. Yeah. But the difference is the like Christians and religious folk believe that marriage is a thing ordained by their God, whoever's God they follow. The real one in my case. Well, yeah, exactly. I'm sure. If you want to like define it that way. If you want to have like your special like, well, mine's the real one and that makes you

feel better. Like, that's fine. Just don't ask us to pretend like the gay people aren't married. Well, no, the reason I say God exists is because it's true and knowable by human reason. You have a source for that? Say it again? You have a source? I do, actually. Aquinas is five ways. Aquinas. We're not going to Aquinas?

You know, nature which cries out in the creator. Anyway, sorry, we interrupted you. You guys know, we interrupt you. You know, that's true that because if you, if you didn't know this actually, I'm going to finish this point, because he's a Catholic, he got some crazy things he has to defend if he's going to be a Catholic here. If we're talking about Aquinas, He said that rape in circumstances is not as bad as masturbation because rape actually can be a procreative act if it's between a man and a woman.

Masturbation is always a mortal sin. So I'm just curious, Michael. Because it's not ordered towards reproduction. No, because contrary to nature. It's contrary to nature. It's contrary to nature. So when you base it off natural law, you end up defending things as rape being worse in masturbation. Drink deep or taste not the period in spring.

You know, Plato said that. Plato said that seduction was worse than rape. Yeah, that's probably not good. kinds of reasons because to, uh, to, uh, to, do you agree with that? Yeah, but the difference is, we don't, we don't, I don't, I don't, I don't agree with that. Oh, he makes a very good point. We agree with you. So you agree that seduction is worse than rape? Well, the way, it's a yes or a question. I was, no, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, it's actually, it's kind of a yes or a question. It's really simple thing. Like, is, like, is marriage from between

a man and a man, the same thing as man and man? What do you mean same? I mean, no, exactly. So it's not. So it's different. Therefore, thank you. Thank you. You just Wait, wait, hold on. They are, they can be separate in whatever religious sense you want. No one's claim claiming. No, but he's asking, are they the same? So, like, are they the same? Of course they're not the same.

The same way, I'm not the same as him, and I'm not the same as you. And neither two marriage is the same. Okay, let me explain. Because you're bringing up Thomas Aquinas and we're talking about Plato. Let me go back to Aristotle's law of non-contradiction. If we say that some, man plus woman equals X. And then you say that... Sex, actually, it's sex.

It equals sex. It also equals sex. If we're saying that that means one thing, right? And then we say that man plus man does not equal X, because they're not the same thing. Yeah, I've taken logic before. I understand where you're going with this. The point that I would get on it. Yeah, but the thing that is this plus this is straight.

You just accepted the premise. No, no, no, hold on. I reject the premise that marriage is inherently between a man and a woman. Therefore, what I would reject is man plus woman in a procreative union order towards that. Marriage, here's the thing that Michael's going to do here is he's going to, because I, Hold on. Let me be very clear. I'm going to give you, I think a marriage is a partnership between two people that is focused on living together in communion, in harmony, and believing in that. What Michael's going to do is what makes that different than two guys or two brothers living with each other.

Good question, Michael. Here's the problem that he does, is that marriage and a lot of things are a little bit hard to define, and there's a lot of, like... It's not bad. It's the same way if I say, what is love, Michael? Define love to me. Love is the willing of the good of the other for his own sake. Okay. So if I... Thomas Aquinas, by the way.

Okay. Yeah. So then if I do, so then I inherently do that if I will to the good of someone else. I will for the good for others for their own sake all the time, even if I don't like them at all. You think it's love? Yeah. I really want other people to do well, even if I really hate them. Yeah, that's terrible people.

I'm charitable and loving. I gave a quarter to a homeless guy. I don't love him. I don't. It's a good act. Not with the right intent. By your definition, it's love. I will it to him for his own sake.

Here you go. I want you to do well. Here you go. I'm giving you a love it. What you say you love it? You're a very loving person. And is that... I can tell.

But there's a different type of love than that, than marriage, and it might be a more gradient spectrum. No, no, love within marriage is also willing to... The point I'm trying to make here, Michael, is that there's a lot of... There's a lot of ambiguity surrounding

a lot of these topics. What Michael likes to do... Who's not. I just answered a very succinctly. I don't think to throw the lifeline to do of marriage is this. And I'm like, well, maybe it's a little more complicated than that. Your audience goes,

no, it's not. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's the exact point that I'm trying to make here is that there is fuzziness around the edges. it doesn't mean that they're wrong. They might just live a different lifestyle than you.

If you can't get over that, maybe you should go live in a country where gay marriage doesn't exist. Pick your favorite Middle Eastern country. You mean all of them before 2001? Yeah. Okay, there you go for it. All of them ever.

Okay. So then you can go to one of those countries. I love Oliver. Oh, you do? Yes, and I will, you're good. If you love them so much, why don't you marry you? You love me. So I'm going to stop you from embarrassing yourself

in this explanation. Oh, I'm sure. Do we have any more questions? No. That's it. Okay, we got a poll. Who won that round? Was it?

My liberal friends, raise the blue flag. Okay, we got a few. Okay. All right. Now, if you were scammed by Trump coin, raise the red flag. Yeah, there we go. No one was. That's why no flag would go up.

If you think that I won that round, raise the red flag. A lot of people who got to- Marriage is coming back, baby. You actually see it in public opinion polls, actually, supportive gay marriage is going down. It's like a topic of another sense. Yeah. Okay.

Now we've got to pick the VIP. I think it's an obvious answer, right? Yeah. Were there any other questions? That man, a lot of urban. Only one. The guy with the gay brother. Hey, you just got married.

Is your wife pregnant yet? Unfortunately, no. Not yet. We want to spend some time before we have kids. Oh, forget about that. Get her up here and give her some of that beautiful redneck revere bourbon, and let's get things moving. That's great. Okay.

In my opinion, nobody wins a bar fight. They're only losers. So the question now, forget about red and blue. We're going individual people. Who lost tonight and who is going to have to buy the round? Is it? The soy pill. Oh, no.

I can sense what's about to happen. They don't like me. Here we go. Bring it on. Is it the man who debated with multiple personalities at the same time, Oliver? Here we up. There we go. There's a badge of honor.

One of his personalities is me. No, okay. All right, a couple. All right, Oliver, you did it, buddy. Thank you very much. Wonderful to see everybody. We'll see you all on the next bar fight. Thank you, Michael.

Ryan Reynolds here for MintMobil, the message for everyone paying big wireless way too much. Please, for the love of everything good in this world, stop. With Mint, you can get premium wireless for just $15 a month. Of course, if you enjoy overpaying, no judgments, but that's weird. Okay, one judgment. Anyway, give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch. Upfront payment of $45 for three-month plan, equivalent to $15 per month required.

Intro rate first three months only, then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees extra. See full terms at MintMobile. com.