The Michael Knowles Show - Choosing Life: Uncovering Planned Parenthood's Lies and Abuse - Lila Rose

Episode Date: August 27, 2022

Without the work of Lila Rose and her undercover investigations, few people would know about the cover ups and abuse that Planned Parenthood has perpetrated against women. In this conversation, the founder and president of Live Action tells her story in depth and stresses the importance of shedding light on the atrocities Planned Parenthood has hidden. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

A quick note before the episode begins. This conversation involves graphic discussions related to abortion and the abortion industry. Please consider turning off the episode if children are present and continue listening with caution. I mean, there have been so many moments in the last decade plus of both going undercover in abortion clinics myself or having teams do it and seeing just heartbreaking things. Whether it's, you know, women vomiting in the hallway of an abortion clinic crying out in pain, or it's watching a woman who, who's with a full belly. You can see this is like a second, third trimester abortion, walking in and you know that that child's alive

and within hours that child will be dead. Or you have one of our brave investigators who's pregnant sitting down with a late-term abortionist, and they're talking casually about how they would literally leave a born-alive baby to die. Or if you deliver the baby in the hotel room in the toilet, then you pick it up and stuff it in a plastic bag and bring it to us. And you're just realizing you're watching in front of your own eyes play out America's Greatest Horror Story, which is how we butcher children in the name of choice. The pro-life movement didn't overturn Roe v. Wade overnight. It took years and years of constant and diligent effort, steady victories amid many setbacks.

Lots of unnoticed hard work in the background to set the stage for generational victories. No one knows more about that than Lila Rose, who at the age of just 15, founded live action. She disguised herself and went undercover as a pregnant underage girl to expose the horrors of Planned Parenthood. What started as a teenage effort to educate small youth groups on the reality of abortion has now become a nationwide network that reaches millions of people each month and presents them with the facts of life and death that the pro-abortion movement doesn't want them to find out. Right now, I would strongly recommend you go to hallow.com slash choose life,

because today's world is a scary one. Too many people don't seem to care about the truth. And I would suggest that that's all rooted in people, becoming less or really just anti-religious. That's why it's more important than ever to keep our relationship with God strong. Hallow is the number one Christian prayer app in the United States. It's like calm or headspace, but rooted in Catholic faith.

It is the perfect resource to deepen your relationship with God and find peace through audio-guided prayer and meditation. Several of Hallow's meditations encourage you to choose life and to pray for others to choose life, such as their litany for life with Lila Rose. Hallow is free to download. It will help you find peace and calm throughout your day. So do it. Do it right now.

Download the app for free at hallow.com slash choose. life. That is hallow.com slash choose life. Let's hear from Lila. My name is Lila Rose and I am the president and founder of live action. So we serve to educate about 15 million people every week on abortion, mostly online and mostly Generation Z and Millennials. And I'm an activist, an advocate, and a mom. So why did you get involved in this issue?

I've been involved since I was a teenager. And that's after finding out about abortion. It's not some dramatic story. I was raised in a beautiful, loving family, one of eight kids. So life was always seen as precious. And then when I was a kid, I found out about abortion by coming across this book, actually, in my parents' house that was about activism in the 1980s. It was called A Handbook on Abortion by Doctor and Mrs. Wilkie.

And it had this like 1980s woman on the front hairdo. And I remember just being interested. Like what's this about? I loved books. So I opened it up. And I'm looking at these images. There's this photographic insert. And there's this image of a baby, maybe 10 weeks old, tiny, that had been torn apart by a first trimester section abortion, which at the time was the most prevalent abortion procedure in the country.

And I remember seeing the humanity of this baby on this page. You could see arms, legs. You can see a little face. It's a human being. But that had been torn apart by abortion. And it just broke my heart. It convicted me. I started to learn more.

I found out this is happening 3,000 times on average every single day in America, and it's legal. And there's an abortion clinic 10 miles from my childhood home that's doing this three days a week, 100 kits a week. And I thought, this is the human rights issue of our time. I can't look away. I have to do something about it. And that inspired me to start live action. And so, you know, now that live action is in full operation and you're engaging with millions of people, what is the most common response that you hear from people? Are they, do you? they know this is going on? Are they surprised? Yeah. One of the most common responses we get is I didn't know. And I was pro-choice,

but I don't think I can do that and be that anymore. I'm pro-life now. And that's because when people learn, they change. When people learn the facts about abortion, they learn about the violence it does to a developing human being. They learn about the harm it does to women. They learn about fetal development and the humanity of that baby. They change. When people learn they change. And we see that every single day across our platforms when we're reaching millions of people a week. And it's exciting. It's why the product movement keeps growing. And is there, is there an element of shock for a lot of people when they realize what actually happens in an abortion? I think there's shock and there's grief when people find out the truth about abortion.

They've been, again, we grew up in a culture where our school system, our media complex, our government largely is per abortion. They think abortion is synonymous with women's rights. That's the lie we've been sold. And so when we wake up, when we're given facts that actually no abortion is an act of violence, intentional violence against an innocent human being, a child who's just developing, who's just as human as you or as me, then it is not just surprising, it's heartbreaking for people. But to give them that opportunity to learn so that they can change, that's what we have to do.

Because again, they're being given every single day through social media, traditional media, school system, whatever, they're being giving lies about abortion and being told that it's this medical procedure that's good for women, as opposed to the fact that it's a violent destruction of a human life. So let's talk about kind of the truth with those claims. You know, this argument that abortion is really just a medical, you know, just another medical service, another medical offering for women, and that it's not a moral issue, it's not something people should worry about.

You know, what's the truth? So the common lie on abortion is that this is like getting your tooth pulled. I mean, this is a medical procedure. The reality is medicine is designed to heal or to save lives. Abortion is the intentional destruction of an innocent human life, a child's life. And it's violent. It's barbaric. It's cruel.

It involves often dismemberment of a child with a beating heart. Sometimes a lethal injection of a child with a beating heart. It's excruciating. And for the mother, we don't talk about this in our culture. It's not popular to talk about, but it can be devastating. And those are the facts. But when people are being lied to constantly, it's hard for them to see this issue correctly because they've not actually given the truth about what abortion is. So let's talk about those people who've been lied to in our society. Is there any sort of common

ground between people who think that they're pro-choice, maybe don't know very much about the issue and people who are pro-life in terms of, you know, is there any common ground in terms of wanting to protect a human life, you know, whether that's the mothers or the childs or, you know, is there a foundation that we can start a conversation from? There definitely is a foundation that we can start a conversation on abortion with somebody who thinks they're pro-choice. And I say think because a lot of the time they haven't really examined their own position. And, you know, an example in college at UCLA, one of my classmates and I were discussing it and she became a friend. And I said, you know, she said, oh, I support abortion, of course. And I was like, well, you know, I'm very pro-life.

Let's talk about it. And we talked about it from the starting point of human rights. We both believed in human rights. She said she believed in them. I said, I believed in them. And I said, well, what are human rights? Are human rights universal for all humans? And she was like, yeah.

Like, so it doesn't matter where you are, how old you are, how young you are, your sex, your color, your ethnicity, anything. You are a human, you get human rights, right? And she said, yes. And I said, is life a human right? Yes. Well, that's why I'm pro life. because a child in the womb is as human as you or as me, they just need to be born,

and they have the right to life just like you or I do. And that was really, she said, I'd never even considered that. I'd never thought of it that way. And that's all it took for her to start seriously considering the pro-life position. So when, you know, when people who are, you know, hardcore abortion advocates basically frame the issue as this, you know, if you're pro-choice or pro-life, you're just diametrically opposed with other people in the country who have a differing view. Would you say maybe it's not that we're just diametrically opposed? Maybe it's that, you know, the people who say that they're pro-choice

just don't really quite understand the full scope of what's going on? Yeah, I think there's a lot of misunderstandings for people that take on the pro-choice label. I mean, pro-choice sounds good. I'm pro-human freedom. I'm pro-choice in that sense. I mean, God is a choice is a gift that God gave us. So yes, you can go out and murder someone. You can go out and steal or rape and kill, but that doesn't mean you have the right to do those things. And so we need to reframe the conversation and make it about human rights. And what are human rights? The first human right is life.

And my right to or my desire to not be pregnant, I think that can be a woman says, well, I don't want to be pregnant right now, doesn't give me license to kill. And that's where there is a hierarchy to rights. Your right to live, a child's right to live, is more important than any other desire or concern that an adult may have. It's our responsibility actually as adults to care for children and fight for them instead of sacrificing our children. When you look at the arguments from organizations like Planned Parenthood or other abortion facilities, they very much present themselves as being the advocates on behalf of women, the friends of women

looking out for a woman's interest. Is that actually the case when you look at the facts about what's going on? Planned Parenthoodism is the leader of the abortion industry. It's a corporation that's making hundreds of millions of dollars. That's $1.7 billion corporation that's making millions of dollars off of abortion. And they're selling abortion. They're literally profiting off of the deaths of children and the pain. It's one of the most painful moments of a woman's life.

So to say that they're the friend of women is a complete lie. It's a scam. And it's just extremely unjust that we are, funneling hundreds of millions of dollars as taxpayers into their coffers, that they have so many friends in media, editorial boards across the country, so many friends in big tech, so many friends in business who are propping up this vicious vision of the world to say that we need to kill our children as women to succeed. So let's talk about that claim because that is the most prevalent claim that, you know, if a woman doesn't have the option of killing her child, that she doesn't

have equality with men, she doesn't have the opportunity. to climb economically, socially, whatever kind of station you're looking at, is that argument true? There's a lot of complexity to the pro-abortion ideology when you start to pull back the layers of the onion. And one of them is this idea that women need to be equal to men in the sense that they shouldn't ever be pregnant or have to be pregnant or have children or that's just something, you know, if men can have sex and have no responsibility, then women should have the same.

And the reality is both need to take responsibility, both men and women. And we are equal in dignity, men and women. We should be treated equally by the law. But women are different from men. We can bring life into the world. That's our superpower. And that's something that should be respected and protected and appreciated as opposed to dismantled and treated like it's this curse, which is how our culture seems to treat pregnancy and motherhood and childbirth. And so it's really a cultural shift that needs to happen where, first of all, men take responsibility. Like, sex is connected to bringing life into the world. Even with contraception, it can bring life into the world. Contraception fails. So instead of penalizing the child and attacking the child for existing, we should change our view on sex and say sex should have to do with love, commitment, responsibility, and yeah, people who are having sex, they should not just love each other, but they should be ready and willing to bring a life into the world because that's what sex is designed to do. And until we actually reconnect the pieces that sex can lead to new life, and that sex is about bonding and should be about commitment,

we're going to continue to have this all-out war in children, where children continually bear the consequences of the sexual expression decisions of adults. Whether it's a movie night or just midday, Skinny Pop is a salty snack that keeps on giving, made with just three simple ingredients for an irresistibly delicious taste and a large serving size that lasts. deliciously popped perfectly salted. Skinny Pop, popular for a reason. Shop Skinny Pop now. So you mentioned men should be held accountable. And I'd love to talk about that because I'm curious,

you know, what could that practically look like? You know, if we're, it's easy to say something, you know, like someone should be held accountable. But, you know, what, when the rubber hits the road, what's that look like? Yeah. Well, first of all, it's a, it's a societal expectation that we need to set. That sleeping around is not, is not healthy. It's not moral. It's not helpful. It doesn't make you happy either, that sex is about, should be about love. Yes, it's about pleasure, it's beautiful, but it's about love, it's about commitment, and it can create new life. Because right now, there's this, they talk about toxic masculinity, but there's something that's the most toxic part of masculinity is masculinity that says, my sexual behavior shouldn't have consequences.

I'm not going to take on the consequences of my sexual behavior. And that is literally what leads to abortion, leads to the killing of children, because it's men who are not ready to be fathered, who are not ready to commit, who are creating children. And that's what we need to change in society, our expectation around sex and around motherhood and fatherhood. And so with that, you know, pro-choice movement, the pro-abortion movement claims, you know, we're the pro-woman movement. But in putting that decision of, you know, whether to kill a child on the woman, which side of the debate really is more pro-woman? Yeah, I mean, the pro-life side, one of our slogans is love them both.

A woman's, again, our superpower is to be able to bring life into the world. Men can't do that. We can. And that's how we're designed. And that doesn't mean that every woman's going to be a mother or should be a mother in a biological sense, but we have that capability. And that should be revered and honored in our society. And men should revere and honor that.

It shouldn't be something that's treated as disposable or look down on. And so the pro-life side right now, there's thousands of pregnancy centers across the country that are providing confidential free care for women. women, a lot of single moms, a lot of low-income women. It's pro-lifers that are adopting, that are fostering, that are working to actually care for mothers and their children. It's pro-lifers who are encouraging a sexual ethic that is moral, that is taking responsibility for our action so that we respect new life when it's brought into the world. Those are pro-life values. And I think deep down, a lot of people want that. They want to be respected and valued.

They want to respect and value other people. And that's the heart of the pro-life position. So, you know, in short, and we've kind of touched on this, but I'd love to just get kind of a point-blank answer. Should the weight of the decision whether or not to abort a child or allow that child to live, you know, should that decision of life rest solely on the woman like it does right now? Yeah, the big problem with the my body, my choice slogan, first of all, it's not just your body because there's another child's body inside your body. But it's also not just your choice in the sense that you should be supported by someone else. It's not like go deal with it, your body, your choice.

Go to the abortion if you want. Go do something else. No, that child has a father. And that father needs to take responsibility and should be supporting and caring and being there for both the mother and the child. So it should not fall just on a woman's shoulders to deal with pregnancy. That is a horrible burden to place on women, and it's overwhelming. Women deserve support. And that's why the pro-life movement is so focused on the thousands of pregnancy centers,

helping mothers focused on adoption and foster care and education for mothers and making sure they're feeling encouraged and have material resources. But men need to stand up, too, because it takes two to create a life. And there are fathers out there who, if they stepped into that role of fatherhood, of putting that mother, the mother of their child first, fighting to care for their child, it'll be a lot easier for more mothers to choose life. So I think most people have probably heard the slogan, My Body, My Choice, but for the one person out there who hasn't heard it, can you maybe give us a brief description of, you know,

what is that argument and what is the pro-abortion movement saying? Yeah. So the My Body, My Choice argument is I have to deal with pregnancy, so I get to stop the pregnancy, make it disappear at any point. The problem with that is a pregnancy isn't just something your body is going through, but it's actually the existence of a new human life, a new individual human life who has human rights. And so we have a responsibility to protect that life. And we don't have the right ever to take that life. So let's go back to kind of some of the foundational arguments here. You know, one of the arguments that has been made by Planned Parenthood specifically for quite a while now

is this idea that it's only a recent phenomenon that there's been kind of a pro-life movement who's opposed abortion. They say, oh, look back pre-1600s, the idea of quickening. Before quickening, people thought it was fine to kill a baby. Or, you know, look at, you know, the laws in the United States up until the late 1800s. There weren't any anti-abortion laws in place, you know. And so they kind of point throughout history and even up to the 60s saying, oh, well, a lot of states didn't even start putting more firm laws in place until, you know, the mid-1900s.

Can you respond to that? I mean, first of all, it's a myth that there were not laws against abortion. There were certainly laws that criminalized procuring abortion or committing abortions before 1973. Many states had pro-life statutes in the United States. And even before, like in the 19th century and before, there was criminalization of the, active, at least giving, administering abortion. So, yes, was there sometimes even confusion because we lacked all the medical technology we have now about when human life begins and what the significance of quickening was? A lot of that has to do with not being

able to prove when human life begins and knowing when the pregnancy began, exactly. But the reality is there was a consistent ethic that human life has value and that we should not be intentionally taking innocent human lives. So do you Do you recall when you first heard this argument from organizations like Planned Parenthood and, you know, kind of set the framework for audiences, you know, when you first heard this argument, what you thought and, you know. And are you also talking about like their argument that Christians, the early church supported abortion or things like that? Yeah, I mean, so they. I can speak to that if you want. Yeah.

So they, but I think, you know, in a lot of the articles I've seen, you know, even on the Planned Parenthood, like directly on the Planned Parenthood website, they say, you know, that it wasn't a religious issue. until like the 1960s. Yeah, it's a complete lie. You look at the Didaki, the early Christian catechism for the very early church, and it talked about prohibiting abortion drugs. You look at the teachings of the Christian church, of the Catholic Church, particularly of the last 2,000 years. And the teachings have never changed on abortion.

They've been consistent ever since the Dida Key, which is that you cannot take intentionally an innocent life, and that's what an abortion does. So there's a lot of attempt by abortion activists to try to bury the history or lie about the history. But the reality is, it's very simple. Thou shalt not kill. Abortion is the intentional direct taking of an innocent human life, and that is never morally acceptable. And do you recall when you first heard that argument?

I mean, over the years, I've heard all kinds of justifications for trying to normalize abortion. because abortion's horrific. It's often the dismembering or the poisoning to death of a child, of a human life with a beating heart who's developing, who's going to be full term in just a few months. So you kind of have to do these crazy twist yourself into these crazy pretzels to defend abortion. And so they're going to try to rewrite history saying, oh, well, Christians are okay with abortion or, you know, the law has permitted abortion. And yes, there have been laws that have permitted abortion in the past. they do now, but that doesn't mean they're just laws. That doesn't mean we shouldn't be reforming them, actively work to reform them. So going back to the, you know, the maybe uninformed pro-choice,

you know, American, what should a well-meaning, well-meaning pro-choice person know about abortion? I think if for anybody who's listening who says, you know, I'm pro-choice, but I'm open, you know, I want to understand this issue better. I think it comes down to the real heart of the issue is this question. What is the life in the womb? Is it a human being? Is it human? And I think the science is crystal clear. The fetus, the embryo is a human life, a unique individual human life, a little boy or girl who needs time and nourishment to grow, and just a few months will be full term and then be an infant and then be a toddler and then be an adolescent and have their whole life. And so the heart of the question is, what is it? It's a human life. And then the next question is,

is it ever right to intentionally take an innocent human life? And I think when you really ask yourself that question, no, it's actually never right to intentionally end an innocent human life. And so there's your answer. That's why abortion, there's no compromise. You can have no compromise on it because this is an innocent human life. And every single one of those children deserve to live. So, you know, when you look at things that seem, you know, pretty black and white when you,

when you analyze them like what you just did, whether you look at, you know, the argument of, is it a human being or the argument of, you know, has society accepted abortion or not accepted abortion? You know, is this an anomaly in this time that we live? Or kind of any of these arguments that the pro-abortion movement is making. Are they lying to people? And if so, why? There's a lot of gray in the world, but there's also black and white. I think most people today would say, yeah, rape is always wrong. Right. And I think murder, taking, intentionally taking an human life is always wrong. And I think most people agree with that. Whether they're left or right or religious or not religious, it's always wrong to intentionally take an innocent human life.

That's what abortion is designed to do. It intentionally ends an innocent human life. And we know it's human life because the science is crystal clear. This is a unique individual human life. And so why, you know, what is the pro-abortion movement doing then? Are they lying? Yeah. The pro-abortion movement has been lying. They're lying about the origin. of human life, they lie about human development. They don't want to even talk about the development of the embryo, the fact that the heart is beating at just three and a half weeks, that brainwaves are forming by just six or seven weeks, that the child has all his or her internal organs and has arms, legs, face, fingers, toes by the end of the first trimester. They don't want to talk

about the development of the child, because as soon as they even admit or acknowledge the science, then it undercuts their entire position that this is not a human life, don't look, it's not a big deal, it's just a medical procedure. Abortion is just a medical procedure. So you look at the science and it shows you this is a human being, this is a human life, and then all of a sudden there's a moral question that is just screaming in your face of, is it okay to kill? Is it okay to kill an innocent human? Is it ever you're right as an adult who's stronger? Even if that child is totally dependent on you, is it ever your right to kill? The reality is we have to change our paradigm. Instead of talking about, oh, women, do we have the right to kill or not, it should be we have a shared

responsibility to care for babies and their mothers, to help women then they're pregnant. Imagine if planned parenthood instead of spending their $1.7 billion empire on the family planning that leads to the destruction of life and the suppression of children to instead supporting, actually supporting mothers and fathers, actually supporting parenthood. They're not planning parenthood. They're ending parenthood. What parents need is support. They don't need to be handed tools or pills to kill their children.

They need to be given resources, material, emotional support, community so that they can raise their children. And so I guess the question then becomes, why isn't Planned Parenthood doing that? Because they're an abortion empire. Their focus is selling abortions, profiting off of the pain of women. They're part of this antiquated ideology that says that death is better than life, that it's good to take the life of your children, you should just have one or two kids, if that, or have no kids, it's better to have none. I mean, it's the one-child policy in China that led to forced abortions

and forced sterilizations for a whole generation of Chinese women was originally planned by Margaret Sanger. She was the one to introduce in the United States as a public policy recommendation that parents should be given licenses to have children and that they should be only given a license for one or two children. So the horrors of what the communist regime in China did, to just enslave a whole generation of Chinese women and enslave their bodies and kill their children originated with the vicious ideology of Margaret Sanger, who's the founder of Planned Parenthood. And that ideology is alive and well today and funded by our taxpayer dollars. So, you know, when you look at the debate, is there an honest debate happening between, you know,

not necessarily, you know, the average American who thinks they're pro-choice and a pro-life movement, But is there an, is there a honest debate happening between the advocates of abortion and the advocates of the pro-life movement? Well, first of all, there's almost no debate happening, but actually between abortion activists, pro-abortion activists and pro-lifers, because they won't debate. I've been in pro-life media or I've been in pro-life movement and in media for the last decade, decade plus, ever since my late teens. And I have multiple times been on radio shows or TV shows or, you know, we pitch to podcasts, trying to do debates with the opposition. And nobody wants to debate. In fact, Planned Parenthood had a policy, and I think they still have it.

They officially have their policy that they do not debate on a pro-lifer. They just don't do it. I've actually been on a live radio show before where they had the Planned Parenthood director of one of their affiliates and she actually dropped off the call because she didn't know I was be joining and she didn't want to talk to me. It was their policy. And the reason they have an non-debate policy, really a non-discussion policy, is they can only win when they lie. And if there's someone calling out their lies, their lies about human development in the womb, their lies about how abortions are committed, there lies about the mental health effects of abortion on women, if they have someone

who's going to call out those lies, then that destroys their position and people are not going to buy it anymore. And what, you know, when we talk about the facts, you know, what is, what is the current statistic on the number of doctors and scientists who agree with the statement that it's a human being from conception? Virtually all scientists agree. If you open any biology textbook, it will tell you that human life begins at the moment of fertilization. And that's when you have a unique single cell embryo that comes into an existence after the egg is fertilized by the sperm. So this is not a question of debate. Now, you can have a debate, and this is where they say, well, there's a debate on personhood.

Yes, this is a single, unique individual, human life, but that doesn't mean it's a person yet. And the proly position is if you are a human, you are a person, period. Because historically, any time we've taken a group of humans and said, you know, chopped off their personhood and said, you know, you're not persons because you're black. You're not persons because you're women. You're not persons because you're the wrong ethnicity in this country. You're not persons because you're disabled. The moment we start to do that, you open the door to egregious human rights abuse. That's what we've actually had in this country when we've considered blacks less than,

and so they were enslaved or women less than, and so they didn't have a right to vote or the equal right treatment under the law. That's the door to barbaric actions that are justified in the name of whatever ideology is prevailing. And so we have to say no. If you're a human, you're a person, and that means if you're a child, you're a person. And that means, yes, if you're before birth, you're still a person. We have a lot more from our conversation with Lila coming up in just a moment. But first, be sure to text pro-life to 47581.

Because as the country grapples with the aftermath of overturning Roe v. Wade, the pro-life movement has come under fire from far-left pro-abortion extremists. Not only have leftists firebombed and vandalized pro-life clinics in multiple states, but online pro-life groups have experienced mass censorship by Google, Facebook, TikTok, you name it. That's why Live Action has been working tirelessly to find ways to spread the truth about abortion and share resources with those who need it most without relying on biased Big Tech. If you want to join Live Action's Fight for Life, text Pro Life to 47581 and opt-in to receive updates from live action about their ongoing work to end abortion.

Texting pro-life to 47581 means you won't be at the mercy of the big tech sensors in the ongoing fight for life. So how does, you know, how does this argument that pro-abortion activists make that, oh, well, you know, they don't have personhood or their, you know, their rights are subjugated to the desire of the mother up until a certain point in pregnancy? How does that compare to the argument from, you know, those same individuals would likely say, oh, I'm in favor of an inclusive society. I'm in favor of you're looking out for the marginalized and the disenfranchised and the poor. How do those two mindsets live with each other? Yeah. I think they can't live honestly with each other, the mindset that we need to be an inclusive society that cares about the vulnerable,

that is for human rights, you know, the group of people that says we should ban the death penalty, which I support, and then to also say, but it's okay to kill, to violently destroy intentionally a child just because they're in the womb. They're not born yet. They're not developed enough yet. That is incoherent. It doesn't make sense because the reality is the most vulnerable human today is a child in the womb who's completely dependent. They should be nourished and loved. And if their mother is struggling to care for them or the mother has issues that she's dealing with, we should be supporting the mother. We should not be directing, encouraging, or saying it's okay to go and kill your child then. And sending her off to a Planned Parenthood is then going to

profit hundreds of dollars off of the death of her child. And I think a lot of people, when they start hearing people talk about abortion, they're like the idea that aborted children or that the issue of abortion itself is somehow a corollary to things that have happened in the past, whether it's our history or Europe's history, I don't think that even crosses people's minds. Are there moments in our history, whether it's the civil rights movement or World War II when we fought against the Nazi party who was literally creating genocide on entire ethnic groups? Is there any sort of corollary between what's happened under legalized abortion in the United States and other periods of history where either people groups without certain rights or

disenfranchised groups were slaughtered as well? Yeah, I mean, throughout the 20th century, one of the bloodiest, they say the bloodiest century in human history, just the sheer death toll. Why were those atrocities committed? Typically, it was regimes that saw certain groups of human as less than, and so violated their human rights, whether it was the Nazi regime who killed off millions of the Jewish people. It was the Soviet Union who killed off political dissidents that were seen as less than or killed

off whole groups of ethnic people because they were not, they were seen as less than. It's always because you see a group of human beings as subhuman or less than. And so you say they're not going to be treated equally and we have the right to kill them. And that's what abortion is. Abortion is family genocide. It's saying this family member, this person is less than. They're too little, they're too dependent. So it's okay for me to kill them. And they even argue some of them, it's actually better for me to kill this family member because it's better for them to die than to live. But that's not our decision to make. It's not a decision to make to take the life of another innocent human being.

And our laws need to reflect that. They need to reflect protection for the basic human rights of all individuals and that first right is life. So I'd like to go back to your story. You know, you read the book by the Wilkes. you decide that you need to become involved in the pro-life movement. Give us kind of a little bit of the narrative, you know, what happens from that point to when you first start doing the undercover investigations? Sure.

So I first find out about abortion. I read the book, a handbook on abortion by Dr. and Mrs. Wilk. I start to research. I start to dabble in early activism, like writing up as a 13-year-old. to vote for life and posting it on my supermarket walls illegally, I think, you know, you don't think you're supposed to do that. But just, you know, thinking, okay, this is, you know, abortion's illegal, thousands of children are dying a day, people are blind, I have to do something. And then by the time I was starting live action, that was about 14, 15, we were looking mostly at the church

because as growing up as an evangelical Christian, and I'm Catholic now, but growing up as an evangelical Christian, abortion was very rarely talked about. In fact, I don't ever remember it talked about growing up in church. And but when I read and researched on the topic, I discovered that women who identified as Protestant, mainline Protestant, or even Catholic or evangelical, were having abortions largely at the same rate. These are self-admitted Christians at the same right as the secular women in the secular world. And yes, when you actually dive into that research, those that are attending church every single week, the rate does decline. But people, largely speaking, who identifies Christian or having abortions. So what's the church doing about that? Is it educating

people? Is it making it a no-shame zone so that if women are pregnant, they feel they can talk to someone and get the support they deserve? Or do women feel shamed instead? Is it a taboo topic? It needs to be talked about. This is the leading cause of death in America, abortion. Why is it not talked about every week in church? That not only to, not to shame people, but to help people to say, this is the truth about it. This is where you go if you're facing an unplanned pregnancy. This is how we can change our mindset as Christians to about sex and talk about sex and relationships and love so that we're not finding ourselves falling into these situations where there is so much unplanned pregnancy. That should be a front and center issue for the church.

And so live action started by literally spent a year knocking on my youth pastor's door, continually asking him to have the opportunity to speak at my youth group, to bring some other friends. We had this presentation we developed that was very professional with facts about abortion, facts about fetal development, biblical application, the risk to abortion for women, and we wanted to just share that with our youth group. And eventually our youth pastor agreed. And then after that, we started doing this in dozens of other churches and some schools across the Bay Area. So at what point did you become aware of the fact that Planned Parenthood was, you know, Obviously, more than just performing abortions, but was actually really shady about how they were doing.

So when I was first deep diving of the abortion industry researching it, I came across a book called Lime 5 by Mark Kretcher. And Mark is like one of the OG investigators of the Pro Life movement. I mean, he's a brilliant investigative journalist and activist from Texas. And this book was basically a compendium of all of these different cases. of sexual abuse cover-up at abortion clinics, abuse of women at abortion clinics, abortionists just committing horrible illegal activity, unethical activity, that he had painstakingly documented over a period of two decades. And so when I read that, I was like, wow, you know, but it made sense. When you're taking the life of an innocent human being, why would you

respect. If you're just to the point where you're literally profiting off of killing babies, why would it be likely that you would be respectful and ethical in your treatment of the mother or in your other business dealings? In the practice of vice, you're not going to find virtue. You're going to find more and more vice. And so then I started to keep, you know, continue to research. Mark had done a study where he actually had an actor call over 900 Planned Parenthood clinics and she posed as a 13-year-old girl on the phone or an underage girl on the phone and found that in over 90% of the phone calls, the abortion clinics told her that they don't basically had a don't ask, don't tell policy and child sexual abuse because there's

statutory rape reporting laws virtually in every state and if you're a health care provider or a teacher, whomever and you suspect child sexual abuse, the underage girl can't consent to sex. So if she's pregnant, right there is a sign that there could be, there's likely abuse. And so when this girl would call these abortion clinics, she'd find at Planned Parenthood that they have this, don't ask, don't tell policy and abuse. And so I was reading this report by Mark. And that was when I started to think, can we document this happening in Los Angeles?

Because I was a college student in L.A., can we document this at the abortion clinics here? Is it happening here? And that inspired our first investigative report. A lot of live actions investigative reporting was inspired by the groundbreaking, truly groundbreaking work of Mark Crutcher of Life Dynamics. And that's because he spent decades starting in the 80s investigating the abortion industry. And he would write these reports and he would be putting this information out there. It wasn't getting the attention that that kind of information can get now because there

wasn't social media then there's a chokehold on media reporting by like the big three networks. The media landscape was just very different. It was very hard for people to get reporting from anybody but the institutional media groups that were typically pretty pro-abortion. And so when live action started doing, when I started doing investigative reporting, I wanted to test Mark's theory that he had, that abortion is, sexual abuse is covered up in abortion clinics across the country. So I went into two abortion clinics in Los Angeles, two Planned Parenthoods, posing as an underage

girl with a much older boyfriend, was working with James O'Keefe at the time, and he and I were collaborating on this and actually went there and said, okay, I'm, you know, 15 years old. He's much older. He's 23. This is a clear case of statutory rape in California. What do I do? And the first Planned Parenthood clinic I walked into one in Santa Monica told me that they, she didn't want to know that I should change my age on the paperwork so that it would not trigger reporting and I could get a secret abortion. And then the second abortion clinic I went into in Los Angeles, The same thing. They said that they were not going to report anything, despite the fact that I had this much

older boyfriend. And she sat there persuading me, it was actually the manager of that clinic persuading me to have an abortion. So two for two, first time trying investigative reporting. And I saw this is an insane story that no one's talking about, that the supposedly pro-women organization, Planned Parenthood, is actually systematically covering up the sexual abuse of little girls. And these girls are being taken by their abusers or sent by their abusers for secret abortions

and then sent back to their abusers. And the one person who's supposed to intervene, a health professional, and make a report and trigger the steps for rescuing that girl and helping her, intervening, is not only not doing their job, they're actively participating in the abuse by committing a secret abortion, killing a child, another child, and then setting the first child, this underage girl back into the arms of her sexual abuser. And this isn't just what live action has documented or Mark Crutcher has documented because we documented it in over a dozen clinics.

But this is also court cases of girls. And we've compiled this in our investigative report on the sexual abuse cover up at Planned Parenthood. There are court cases of young girls, almost a dozen of them, that this is, you can find them in public cases, where girls have actually sued Planned Parenthood or named Planned Parenthood in their lawsuits as participating in the cover-up of the sexual abuse that they endured. Sometimes at the hands of, you know, a soccer coach, at the hands of a stepfather, at the hands of their biological father, and then some of them enduring repeat abortions at Planned

Parenthood, where they're taken by their father to Planned Parenthood who raped them, and Planned Parenthood is giving them a secret abortion, not asking any questions, not reporting the abuse like they're required to do by law, because in Planned Parenthood's ideology, and abortion is always best. It doesn't matter your situation if you're poor, if you're raped, if you're abused. Abortion is your ticket. And that's our job. We wash our hands of caring for you afterwards. How widespread is this?

I mean, think about it this way. Any girl who's pregnant who's underage, that could be because of abuse. And a girl can't consent to sex when she's 13 years old in most states. I mean, she's a child still to herself. And so when you look at, it's hard to know exactly statistics of how many of these pregnancies are actually due to the abuse of men that are, you know, five, ten, fifteen, or more years they're senior. But we know that it's happening regularly. We know from the court cases that this has happened over the last decade many times. And I think it's happening on a daily basis.

It's just a matter of no one's talking about it. Planned Parenthood is continuing to participate in facilitating the abuse. And no one's investigating. No, the media groups certainly haven't been investigated beyond live action. And, you know, I remember telling you. phone call with the head of, with a detective from the LA Police Department, LAPD, and he was working on child abuse cases, child sexual abuse cases, especially of underage girls, teen girls. And he said in all his years, his decades working in LAPD, he'd never gotten a phone call from an abortion clinic. No abortion clinic had ever reported suspected abuse when they're the ones dealing with pregnant

girls, young girls who are involved in sexual activity, and instead of flat, you know, Oh, is there an older guy involved? What's your situation? Is there abuse going on? They just sell an abortion and send her on her way. As the Krispy Chicken Sandwich from 7-Eleven, people always call me loud. And I'm like, yeah, I know. I'm crispy. Did you expect me to whisper? If you want quiet, go eat some soup and reflect. Like, I know I'm a handful. I'm bold, I'm juicy. Throw some pickles and barbecue sauce on on me, and baby I'm a whole meal. And with seven rewards, I'm just $4. Quiet? No. Krisby, saucy and $4.

Very. Only at 711. Valley through 62326 participating stores only while supplies lastly app for full terms. If this is widely known, especially by lawmakers

and people in power, why is it allowed, why is Planned Parenthood allowed to continue operating? Because if you're an abortion clinic, you get to operate beyond the law. That's the way it is in most states right now in our country.

And that's because abortion has been by some pro-abortion lawmakers, again, this is not the future. This has been the past, though. Abortion has been seen as a sacrosanct right. And so anything you do to regulate it, anything you do to keep murderous abortionists accountable or ones that are not following even basic health care guidelines for their clinics, no, that's taboo. And that's why Kermit-Gosnell in Philadelphia was allowed to operate for decades

before he was finally raided by the FBI, and they found that he had been killing born-alive infants. He actually killed women. He was doing all kinds of medical malpractice. And there were reports on this. There were tips on this being regularly given to police, to the health department, and it was never acted on. They looked the other way. Why? Because he was an abortionist.

And if you're an abortionist, you are regulated less in most states than a nail salon. And that's what's happening in Washington, D.C. right now. Live action has been involved heavily in reporting the Justice for the Five case, which is the case of brave pro-life activists who intercepted the medical waste bucket of the bodies of 115 children outside Chasery San Angelo's abortion clinic. We've been investigating his abortion clinic for over a decade at Live Action, and his abortion clinic, Chaserie Santangelo, has admitted on undercover tape that he would let a born-alive infant in his facility die, that he would not resuscitate, he would not help them.

He's also known to not use a feticide, which means he doesn't do a lethal injection of the baby first. That means he either delivers alive and kills them, or he dismembers them alive, and that's how he kills them. These are sometimes almost full-term infants. And is anyone investigating? Have DC police, when the bodies of these infants were found outside his abortion clinic, including the bodies of five babies who look to be, some of them nearly full-term, five babies who were between 20 to 40 weeks old, One little girl whose neck was cut and she, her brain removed, it appeared to be a DNX or a partial birth abortion, which is a violation of federal law. Another baby born N. Cal in the amniotic fluid sac, so it looks like the baby also could have been born alive because how else would he have killed the baby before he or she was delivered. Two babies that were viciously dismembered.

Again, babies may be 28, 30 weeks old. And then another little baby boy who looked to be full term, according to some medical experts. no signs of apparent trauma on his body. He'd been stuffed in a medical waste bucket in a solution. How did he die? How did he die? Was he delivered alive like Chaserie Santangelo has admitted he would do? And then drowned or just left to die?

These are the questions that law enforcement should be investigating. And yet they are not. They're allowing butchers like Cheseray Santagelo to operate his late-term abortion clinic in D.C., just like they allowed Kermit Gossi. to operate his late-term abortion clinic in Philadelphia until finally they took action, and now he's behind prison bars because they discovered that he was killing born-alive infants, and that's still illegal in this country. Can you describe, you know, just briefly, what was the most shocking thing that you experienced

during the undercover videos? I mean, there have been so many moments in the last decade plus of both going undercover in abortion clinics myself or having teams do it and seeing just heartbreaking things. Whether it's, you know, women vomiting in the hallway of an abortion clinic crying out in pain, or it's watching a woman who's, you know, with a full belly. You can see this is like a second, third-term abortion walking in and you know that that child's alive and within hours that child will be dead. Or you have one of our brave investigators who's pregnant sitting down with a late-term abortionist

and they're talking casually about how they would literally leave a born-alive baby to die. or if you deliver the baby in the hotel room, then you should in the toilet, then you pick it up and stuff it in a plastic bag and bring it to us. And you're just, you're realizing you're watching in front of your own eyes play out America's Greatest Horror Story, which is how we butcher children in the name of choice. So I started doing undercover reporting in college and have continued it through my organization Live Action over the last decade plus. and live action news investigates the abortion industry day and day out, sometimes undercover, sometimes in reports, in news stories, exposing what abortionists are doing every single day, exposing the unethical illegal activities happening in the abortion industry, and exposing what's happening to our nation's children.

Has the description or dialogue about what is going on with abortions, has it been sterilized to the point of having no impact on people? I mean, the best thing that the abortion side can do, the pro-abortion. side can do is act like abortion is just health care. That's their slogan. Abortion is health care. And once you actually dig into that and say, okay, what does abortion do? Well, it takes the life of an innocent human. What is the pregnancy that you're ending? What's that embryo or fetus that is what's happening to them? Well, they're human life with a beating heart. Sometimes their brain waves by just six or seven weeks. They're fully formed with all their

internal organs by the end of the first trimester, that's, that that is who, it's a who is being dismembered here, is being ripped into pieces. It dramatically changes the conversation. Because now long, no longer is abortion hiding behind these euphemisms, these false words, this rhetoric about, you know, health care, but it's now, no, abortion is the taking of an intentional ending of an innocent human life. How does decoupling abortion from morality, how does it tie into a lot of the other lies that, you know, have kind of perpetrated throughout the pro-abortion movement? Yeah, I mean, if you, if abortion is just like removing a wisdom tooth, go at it.

You know, like, I have no reason to oppose that. No one should. But abortion is anything but. Abortion is the destruction of a life. An ending of a pregnancy, it's also the destruction of a child's life, a boy or a girl, who just needs time and nourishment to grow. And once you actually expose that abortion is not just some, like, sterile procedure, but that it's literally designed to kill a human being to stop a heartbeat.

It changes everything. And most people, when they're actually exposed to learning about this, they usually change on their position on it. They say, wow, I don't know that I can support that anymore. I have more questions about that or I had no idea. Now I'm pro-life. I mean, we get those dramatic conversions regularly. Because if you're brought up in a society where you're constantly being fed this lie that, oh, it's empowerment to women, it's choice, it's this medical procedure. Yeah, it's easy to go along with that. But once you start to dig into it and find out what it really

is, everything changes. What about the argument that if abortion was made illegal, you know, thousands of women would die in back alley abortions? Well, first of all, women die in. in legal abortions. You know, Tanya Reeves was a 24-year-old woman who was killed in a Chicago Planned Parenthood. She literally bled to death, hemorrhaging, when they waited hours before they called an ambulance. So where's justice for her? So this idea, it's a myth that to legalize abortion means that it's safe for women. It's never safe for the child.

They always die. And it's not safe for women either, not just physically, but also for their mental health. I mean, there are studies that have been done that show dramatic mental health in, in impacts, negative impacts, repercussions for women who have abortions. But, you know, this idea that we need to take killing and make it safe. You can't make it safe. And we need to change our construct here, say, listen, women, if you're pregnant, if you're experiencing need, if you're financially struggling, whatever it is, our job should be to

connect you to someone who's going to kill your child. And that's what the Perlick movement is doing. And as the converse to that, is the pro-choice movement providing any support like that? I don't see abortion advocates running pregnancy centers. They run abortion clinics. I don't see abortion advocates heavily promoting adoption and fostering kids and helping kids in foster care. They're promoting abortion. The solution from abortion advocates is abortion.

It's kill the child. The solution of the pro-life movement is help the child and help the mother and help the parents. So is the claim, is it a fair claim then from the pro-choice movement that, the pro-life movement only cares about the child until they're born. Yeah, there's this line like, oh, you're just pro-birth. I'm like, well, first of all, I'm definitely pro-birth in the sense. I'm pro-birth days. Like, we all deserve to be born. You know, I want to protect that right for you. But we're pro-life. We're pro-life. We're pro-life. And that's why pro-lifers are involved so heavily. Most of our movement is pregnancy resource centers. Most of our movement is supporting and

encouraging adoption and helping foster care kids. Most of our movement is, the supporting parents, saying we need to be there for parents, whether it's through your churches or through non-for-profits or through better public policy that fosters parenting and helping parents and marriages. That's the focus of our movement. It's a huge part of their argument that, you know, oh, well, women who don't have access to abortion just slide further into poverty, you know, they struggle financially. Can you respond to that argument? Yeah. Well, first of all, there's a lot of research. There are a lot of options for women, single mothers, who are abandoned by the guy maybe,

and they're being pressured to abort, but they know that's not the right answer to kill my child. There's a lot of people that want to help them. And, you know, we have hotlines on the live action website. We partner with a lot of organizations. And I would say to any mom who's in that position to say, listen, there are people that do want to help you. There's organizations that want to help you. Explore those options.

Explore the help that's out there for you. How are the pro-abortion movement's tactics changing? I think the pro-abortion movement for a while relied on this old stereotype that, you know, if you're pro-life, you're just kind of old white man that hates women, basically, or wants to control women. And then, like, a whole diverse group of young women stood up and said, no, that's a lie. Like, we're a lot of women and men, but a lot of backgrounds religiously, ethnically, I mean, every kind of person. can be pro-life. And then they're like, oh, guess that stereotype is not working anymore. Especially because of social media and online media, like, you just look and you Google and you start to like explore the pro-life movement online. And you're like, wow, it's very diverse.

You know, it's really compelling. And I'm proud that life actions had a big part in playing and becoming a platform for that. I mean, we're a platform of over 5 million people, very diverse people, all different backgrounds, mostly young women, though. And it's amazing to see just their voices being amplified. So what's their new tactic? Yeah. So how has their tactic changed? Well, it's interesting because Planned Parenthood's new tactic now actually is a bit nonsensical.

I mean, it's always been nonsensical, but it's peculiar. Because their new tactic now is this radical intersectionality where they say, you have to support abortion for the sake of our LGBTQI. I mean, they're going the route of this kind of this typical kind of leftist. speak in order to advance abortion. So they're not even saying, they don't like saying women more as much. You're adopting some of the language of like birthing persons. So they're in a way eliminating even the idea of women from some of their talking points. And I think they're going to, and they already are running into major trouble because they're kind of undoing their whole ideological

foundation that we need to make women equal to men and therefore they should have to kill their children and this whole, it's now increasingly incoherent. And I think there's a lot of infighting that's happening at Planned Parenthood. There certainly has been, I mean, especially with reckoning on racial matters, recognizing, yeah, we were actually founded by racists, you know, that's definitely going to be disruptive to their organization and has been. You know, they honor Planned Parenthood's founder Margaret Sanger with these plaques of her and these like busts of her and they named their clinics after her. And it's like, oh, actually, she was a racist. Well, we have to reckon with that. I think they've lost, they never really had a coherent ideology to begin with, but it's increasingly

incoherent as they have to adopt sort of popular ideologies and somehow stuff the abortion position into these new popular ideologies. And it just doesn't fit. And, you know, you referenced maybe 10 or 15 minutes ago the idea that the past and present in terms of abortion law and societal views on abortion aren't necessarily the future. What do you think the future of this debate? What do you think the future of the pro-life movement is? Yeah, the future of the pro-life movement is total legal protection and a cultural shift. I mean, it's law, it's hearts and minds, and it's law. We have to make abortion illegal and unthinkable.

And a culture of life is one that every person, born and unborn, is seen for the dignity that they possess is treated with the respect that they deserve. That goes to how we treat each other and just our friendships, our relationships, our businesses. It goes to our families and how we see families that children deserve mothers and fathers, that we should support mothers and fathers, that we should love children and not reject them. It's a whole, in a way, becoming more sensitive and more tender as a society to one another. And that's the world we're fighting for. And do you think, do you think, you know, specifically that idea, not just illegal but unthinkable, as a society, are we moving in that direction or will we?

Our society in many ways is divided. But I think people of good conscience, when they're given facts, when they learn, they change. And when they learn facts about abortion and when they see this vision of human dignity as, as beautiful that we should fight for human lives, no matter what life is worth fighting for, I think it's captivating for people. people. And so despite the divisiveness and, you know, all the rhetoric on both sides, I think increasingly I'm very hopeful that we can see big shifts culturally. I think people aren't happy with the way our society set up. Our culture is very negative. People are lonely. They don't feel belonging. There's a lack of meaning for a lot of people. There's a lot of suffering. But if we just change the paradigm again and say, listen, life is about love. Life is about serving each other. Life is about fighting for each other. It's about insuring up bonds of love with each other, in families and in communities. I think that's the world people want. And so I'm

very hopeful that our pro-life message isn't just going to translate to pro-life laws, which is happening. And with the Supreme Court, it's definitely happening, I think. But it's also going to translate that in our culture. Translate to that in our culture. So I'm very hopeful that our pro-life movement as it continues to grow and it's growing is not only going to lead to those more sometimes quiet or loud cultural ships of people waking up and saying, no, I'm pro-life. I want to see the value of human beings and treat people with love and respect. I want to belong to, we belong to each other as well as big legal changes. And those are already happening at the state level with unprecedented amounts of states adopting pro-life laws. But even at the Supreme

court, I think it's very likely that they will uphold the 15-week abortion ban in Mississippi, which would empower states across the country to enact pro-life laws. So what do you say to the woman who doesn't feel like she has any support, feels pressure from maybe family members or those around her to have an abortion, and doesn't know where to turn? What do you say to that woman who feels scared? Yeah. I mean, to anybody who is someone or knows someone who is facing unplanned pregnancy and they think, I don't know what to do, I feel like I need to have an abortion, the first thing

I would say is there are people that want to help you. You are not alone. I know you may feel alone, but you're not alone. And, you know, our website, Abortion Procedures.com has facts that you deserve to know about abortion, but it also has a help page where there's a whole list of hotlines and resources that you can contact for support, financial support, material support, free confidential counseling, but that first message is you're not alone. There are people that want to help you and help your child. And last question, you know, what, you know, what would you like to leave

audiences with? Is there anything we haven't covered or anything that you think we should touch on? I mean, one other, I think, issue that is kind of connected to your last question, but I don't know if this makes sense to include is there's this popularized mentality for women that we are stronger and better when we're not burdened with children. That a child is kind of this, for the man, they say the ball and chain is a woman. It's that old trope. Well, a ball and chain, a child is a ball and chain for a woman. And we just have to wholeheartedly reject that because there's nothing more beautiful in the world than a child. And we're designed as women to love and nurture. And I think we're most ourselves when we are being loved and loving and we're loving and nurturing.

And I know being a mom of two kids, my life changed dramatically having kids, but in for this, in this beautiful, beautiful way. Because now I have this incredible purpose that I get to fight for these kids, not just kids in general in the prognment, but my own children. So I think there's a message to women, too, that, you know, don't be afraid of motherhood. Don't be afraid of, like, the superpower you have as a woman to be a mother. And, yeah, I mean, you deserve a man who's going to be there for you and who's going to marry who's going to love you.

I think we need to, like, reassert that that's what women deserve. and demand set that standard for men, but to encourage women that it's awesome. Motherhood's a beautiful thing, and you deserve support and love, and your child is a tremendous gift. The abortion industry uses women for their own profit. These lies are pervasive.

They're not difficult to refute, but it can be difficult to penetrate that culture of lies to get the truth out there. We have to do it. We have to do it because it's right. We have to do it for the victims of abortion. We have to do it for the women who are taken in by this industry, who are used for dollars, even to their own detriment.

If you enjoyed this conversation with Lila Rose, you'll want to check out our Daily Wire original documentary, Choosing Death, The Legacy of Rowe. In it, we take a wrecking ball to the four fallacies keeping the abortion industry alive. To watch it right now, Go to Dailywireplus.com. Today, if you join, you will see not only this full movie,

Choosing Death, the Legacy of Row, but you will have access to the Daily Wire's entire catalog of content, which we can only produce and distribute because of you with your support. I'm Michael Knowles. This is The Choosing Life Podcast. We'll see you next time. The Choosing Life Podcast is a Daily Wire production, produced in association with Outer Limits.

Our technical and support team includes Ian Reed, Jesse Eastman, Ryan Moore, Mariah Cormier, and Jim Wirt. Copyright Daily Wire 2022. Thanks for listening.