The Michael Knowles Show - Ep. 162 - Donald Trump Doesn’t Kneel

Episode Date: May 24, 2018

As Little Rocket man runs his mouth, the U.S. send a clear message and backs it up with action. Meanwhile, Trump triggers the Left into attacking the American flag again. We’ll analyze the virtues of common sense. Then, Patrick Coffin joins the show to give Michael and the world advice on marriage. We could all use it Finally, the Mailbag! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I cannot believe that the culture would do this to me right before my wedding. It's right before my wedding and the culture is trying to kill me with all this winning. Not only, you saw it made me sick and tired last week. I was congested. I was tired. I was sick. Now it might kill me all of the winning. As little rocket man runs his mouth, the United States sends a clear message and backs it up with action.

What a welcome change. Meanwhile, Donald Trump triggers the left into attacking the American flag again. I don't know why they keep doing this, but great, bring it on. We will analyze the virtues of common sense. Then Patrick Coffin joins the show to give me and the world advice on marriage. We could all use that. You know, there's a lot of confusion these days. Finally, the mailbag.

I'm Michael Knowles, and this is the Michael Knowles show. A lot to get to today. A lot of these. Ooh, those tears are good. Before we get into what's going on culture and the politics, and get to our guest and answer all your questions. Let's talk about the upside. Let's talk about Upside. A wonderful sponsor for the show. They help keep the lights on and they will help you travel. Being an astronaut was a pretty cool job,

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and really great service. So Donald Trump is spiking the football. You see that pun? You like that? Donald Trump is spiking the football because the NFL announced yesterday that they would no longer allow these players to kneel down. And this had always been the rule, but now they weren't enforcing it for the last two years, and so they will not allow players to protest the American flag on the field at the NFL. Here is Donald Trump's reaction. The NFL has, the owners have voted unanimously to approve a new national anthem rule that says, if you're not going to stand, stay in the locker room, if you go to the field, you have to stand. If you have a protest, your team's going to get fined. This is the first time you're hearing this. What's your reaction, Mr. President? Well, I think that's

good. I don't think people should be staying in locker rooms, but still, I think it's good. You have to stand proudly for the national anthem. Well, you shouldn't be playing. You shouldn't be there. Maybe you shouldn't be in the country. You have to stand proudly for the national anthem. And the NFL owners did the right thing if that's what they've done. If that is the story, do you feel like you push this story forward and you push this to a conclusion? I think the people pushed it forward.

This was not me. I brought it out. I think the people pushed it forward. This country is very smart. We have very smart people. And, you know, that's something ideally could have been taken care of when it first started. a lot easier. But if they did that, they're doing the right thing. Absolutely right. Absolutely right. Everything he just said is absolutely right. They shouldn't be in the country if they hate it so much.

If they hate the country so much, they should not be here. The country gives them a lot of privileges, a lot of opportunities. It defends their liberties. It defends their life. It's a lovely place. Everybody's trying to come here. And if you hate it, if you want to disrespect it and you complain about it and whine about it all the time, leave. Leave. Leave. Go away. away. We don't want you here. If you hate the country, go somewhere else. That's fine. There are other places. It's kind of harder to sneak into those other places because every other country enforces its own immigration laws, unlike the United States. But get out of here. He's absolutely right. Also, I'd like to point out here, people say Trump is a narcissist.

This is one of the memes. Donald, he's a big narcissist. He only wants us about himself and this and that. I don't see that here. What Barack Obama would have said if it were some issue that he had participated in. He'd say, well, listen, I want a million Baroque's and Michelle's. All the future leaders of America are going to be a million Baroque's and Michelle's. He just sees everybody in the light of himself. He just looking in a mirror all day long. But Brian Kilmead asks Donald Trump, says, Mr. President, do you take credit for this? He says, you know, I don't think so. I think it's the people. And Trump is right about that, by the way. This is not about Donald Trump. The New York Times is so angry. They ran a big headline

today about how the NFL kneels to Donald Trump. The NFL didn't kneel to Donald Trump. The NFL kneeled to the American people who stopped watching their programming. The NFL realized if it wanted to stay on TV and have people keep buying their products, they would have to stop spitting in the face of people's country, which they love. This actually didn't have a lot to do with Donald Trump. What Donald Trump largely is, we talked about yesterday on the show, how Donald Trump is a people person. He's living in reality and he sees the present pretty well. so it looks like he's seeing the future

because everyone else is living in the past. And what he does is he sees what people are saying. And then Donald Trump is this big, gigantic microphone. He is just a huge microphone for what's going on in the culture. And that's why it resonates. That's why when he says it, people say, oh, he's saying what we're all thinking. That's why he gets 50,000 people to go to his rallies.

That's what he goes there and he's tapping into the zeitgeist. He's tapping into what's going on in the culture and amplifying it. But it didn't originate with him. And so look, that's good. I'm glad that the NFL wants to keep its money and stop, you know, giving the one-finger salute to its audience. But now we have some skittish conservatives who are up in arms about this. So the left is crying about free speech. The left only cares about free speech, by the way, when it suits their purposes. So they don't care about free speech at universities. They don't care about free speech defended by the government. All they care about is free speech for millionaire assets. athletes during one particular sort of athletic broadcast. That's the only time they care about it. But now some conservatives are up in arms about this. David French, whom I like personally, but he's lost it with this op-ed. He wrote an op-ed in the New York Times. The op-ed is called Conservatives fail the NFL's free speech test. And this line of thinking is so wrong and detrimental

to the conservative cause and to the defense of free speech. And really, I'm mostly just peaved at David right now because he published it in the New York Times. What are you doing? You write for a great publication called The National Review. You write there. Don't put it in the New York Times for goodness sakes. So here's what he wrote. Here is his argument and I'll explain why it's wrong. French says, quote, the United States is in the grips of a free speech paradox. At the same time that the law provides more protection to personal expression than any time in the nation's history, large numbers of Americans feel less free to speak. The culprit isn't government censorship, but instead corporate community and peer intimidation. And then he goes on

a little bit and he says that, you know, conservatives are saying that it's different when it's about the flag. French rights, quote, but this is different, they say. This isn't about politics. It's about the flag. I agree. It is different. Because it's about the flag, the censorship is even worse. Where to begin? Where to begin with this? So what David is saying is that conservatives talk a good game on free speech, but also we don't want our national athletes to spit on their country. And he says that this is a contradiction. Of course it's not. We're criticizing the content of the speech,

but we're also criticizing this particular speech and attack on the flag because it is nonsensical. Because you're using the rights, enshrined in our constitution, protected by our communities and our governments and our law enforcement, you're using those rights to attack. those rights, to attack the source of those rights, which is the country, the star-spangled banner, the flag, which is a symbol of the country. It doesn't make any sense. G.K. Chesterton talked about this.

He said, there is a thought that stops thought, and that's the only thought that ought to be stopped. So as a matter of free speech, the players, they can protest the flag all they want. They just can't do it during the broadcast. They can't do it on the NFL's dime, and they can't do it because the NFL will disappear. People will just stop watching it. Do the NFL owners have any free speech? Do they have any rights to air what they want to air during their broadcast? Do they have any, can they tell the employee, hey, you can't use our product to showboat your anti-American trash? This is what it would be like. I wonder if David will write another column in the New York Times about this one. If actors in Hollywood movies, they're filming the movie, you know,

Stella, Stella, I hate Donald Trump, get him out of office. Stella, say, cut. What was that? is what if a Hollywood actor inserted his own political views in a Hollywood movie and said, you have to put that in the final movie or you're abridging my free speech? You're censoring me. If you're to say, no, we're not. We're this movie studio. We're making a product. They're writers.

They're directors. There's the studio, the distributors. We have a product and we don't want you to, we're hiring you to do a job. We're hiring you to say the lines on the page. We're not hiring you to run your mouth about anti-American nonsense. And they say, well, that's my free speech. It's the same thing with the NFL. These guys, these millionaire athletes who get paid to run around on grass and throw a ball back and forth

and enjoy the wonderful prosperity that this country has to offer, that we take a time off, you know, once a week and just watch grown men run around and play a game together. They are hired to do a job, which is to run around and throw that ball. They are not hired to voice their political views. They can go to Twitter later and say, I hate America. And that's what they're saying, by the way. you protest the American flag, you're saying, I hate America, but I protest America. So they can, that's fine, take it to Twitter, do whatever you want, but you can't do it on our dime. There's

nothing contradictory about this. And by the way, there's nothing contradictory about disagreeing with the content of the speech, particularly when the content of the speech undercuts free speech itself. There is a thought that stops thought. That's the only thought that ought to be stopped. And I wish conservatives would stop, I don't know if they're being obtuse or pretend. or they honestly don't see that distinction. But there is a thought that stops thought that's categorically different. And by the way, the NFL has a right to make its TV shows, which is what a football game is, is a TV broadcast paid for by advertisers

under the NFL. And Hollywood movie makers have the right to make their movies, and employees don't have the right to take over, hold to that entire production hostage, and air their anti-American dribble. That has nothing to do with free speech at all. and it's a ridiculous argument. Before we get to Patrick, I've got a really good guest.

He's going to give me advice on marriage. I could use it. Before we get to him, I do want to talk about Trump canceling the Korea summit, the summit with Kim Jong-un. So, you know, we've seen they've been building this up for a long time saying, oh, maybe, you know, Trump will get the Nobel Peace Prize. They're all saying Trump really wants that Nobel Peace Prize. Oh, but will Kim do it?

They cast a little coin at one of the White House gift shops or something. Okay. Now it's over. Now it's over. Here is the letter that Donald Trump sent to Kim Jong-un. I will explain why this really should give us a lot of confidence in the guy and in Pompeo and in John Bolton and the foreign policy advisors around him because this move was perfectly done. Here's the letter. Quote, Dear Mr. Chairman, we greatly appreciate your time, patience, and effort with respect to our recent negotiations and discussions relative to a summit long sought by both parties, which was scheduled to take place on June 12th and 6th. Singapore. We were informed that the meeting was requested by North Korea, but that to us is totally irrelevant. You asked for it, guys. But hey, we don't need to talk about that. The letter goes on. I was very much looking forward to being there with you. Sadly, based on the tremendous anger and

open hostility displayed in your most recent statement, I feel it is inappropriate at this time to have this long planned meeting. Therefore, please let this letter serve to represent that the Singapore summit for the good of both parties, but to the detriment of the world will not take place. You talk about your nuclear capabilities, but ours are so massive and powerful that I pray to God they will never have to be used. It goes on. I felt a wonderful dialogue was building up between you and me, and ultimately, it is only that dialogue that matters. Someday, I look very much forward to meeting you in the meantime. I want to thank you for the release of the hostages who are now home with their families.

That was a beautiful gesture and very much appreciated. If you change your mind having to do with this most important summit, please do not hesitate to call me or write. The world in North Korea in particular has lost a great opportunity for lasting peace and great prosperity and wealth. This missed opportunity is a truly sad moment in history. Sincerely yours, Donald J. Trump, President of the United States of America. Masterful, absolutely masterful.

Whoever wrote the letter, I don't, you know, presidents tend not to write these things. things themselves. It's no slight to President Cofafe, but whoever wrote it, whether it was Stephen Miller or somebody, Pompeo or something, really superb. Because it has that Trumpiness. It does have all of that. You know, he gets in there because Kim Jong-un is raising a ruckus now. And basically what he tried to do is move the goalposts. Kim Jong-un, Kim Jong-un, we're, you know, they're in dialogue about this meeting. And Kim Jong-un thought he could turn up the heat on Donald Trump, on the frog, on America frog, turn up the heat, so we were going to get a bad deal out of And Trump said no. He had the willingness to step back. This is a total contrast to Barack Obama. Total

contrast. Barack Obama with the Iran deal was so desperate for that deal to happen. He so wanted his second nuclear Nobel Peace Prize. He wanted to earn one of them. He was so desperate he would take any deal, even if the deal didn't give us anything. He was, Iran kept changing the terms of the deal. they said, hey, let all of our money free up in the banks, okay. Hey, fly over a plane of cash and drop it off. Okay, yes, sir, whatever you want. Iran captures American sailors, holds them hostage, takes humiliating pictures of them, broadcast them to the world.

What does Obama do? What did John Kerry do? They say, oh, okay, I'm sorry. I'm okay. Thank you. Thank you for not releasing more video of our sailors being humiliated. I mean, absolutely pathetic because they couldn't accept a deal falling apart. Donald Trump's not like that. The way you negotiate, the only way a negotiation works is if you're actually willing to walk away.

If you're not willing to walk away, that isn't a negotiation. So what do we get now out of all this? The meeting is off. The left is loving this, right? They say, Trump's not going to get that Nobel Peace Prize. Turns out Trump didn't give a darn about that Nobel Peace Prize, did he? He didn't. He didn't care at all. He just wants the thing to happen. Someone asked him about the Peace Prize. He said, yeah, that'd be fine. A lot of people say I deserve one. But I just want the thing to happen. I want to accomplish the reality, not just the appearance of the thing, which the left loves. I want the essence of the thing, which is a lasting piece and denuclearization of Korea. But just look at what we've gotten out of this. So we got this crazy, you know, back and forth media circus over this meeting.

Now it's over. Okay, let's say it's actually over. I guess it could still turn on. If it's actually over, we got three American hostages released, one of whom who's been held for three years by North Korea. And North Korea demolished one of its nuclear test sites today in Pungi, I think is vaguely how you pronounce it. But they actually demolished one of their nuclear testing sites. There was a series of huge explosions. Foreign journalists looked on. We can actually see it.

This actually happened. So we got two pretty big concessions out of it. And Donald Trump walked away because the worst thing that could happen would have been that the Obama policy. Obama did this in Cuba too. He went down and he said, hey, Castro's. I know that we've been fighting you for years. You almost destroyed us with nuclear weapons 50 years ago. You brutalize your own people. just monster thug mafia pinko monsters. But we'll give you whatever you want so that we have the appearance of a deal. So we have the appearance of peace. So we gave the Castro's everything. We got nothing in return. And that's an Obama deal. Trump said no. The worst thing that could have happened is if we legitimized Kim, we allowed them to maintain their weapons, we could have

ended up worse off than we were before. Now, because Trump was willing to walk away, we ended up way better off. We get those, you know, we get those hostages back and we get a nuclear site demolished and maybe there will be an opportunity in the future. And Trump still, he doesn't back down at all. They says, you know, you threaten your nuclear weapons. Just remember, we could blow you off the map in a second. In a New York minute, we could blow you off of the face of the earth. That's important language. He has no fear of looking like a failure here. He's just doing. the thing. It's really beautiful. Okay, we've got to get to Patrick. We're running a little late. Okay. Patrick Coffin for nearly eight years hosted the top rated Catholic radio show in the country.

Catholic Answers Live and the podcast Catholic Answers Focus. He's the author of the contraception Deception, Catholic teaching on birth control, as well as sex or natural what it is and why it's good for your marriage. And currently, he's the host of the Patrick Coffin Show. Patrick does a lot of things. He's very, very busy. Patrick, thank you for being here. Thanks for having me. You know, I really wanted to turn the Catholicism up to 11 as I prepare to wed. I'm getting on a flight tomorrow to New York to begin my bachelor party. So I guess that could end up being my last show ever, I suppose, you know, depending on how the bachelor party goes.

Up to 11. Don't look at it. Don't touch it. Don't even look at it. No. Eleven. Eleven. It goes to 11.

So I have, yes, sir. My first question. You are married. Should I run away now? Should I leave a Michael-shaped hole in the wall somewhere? Do you have any advice for me and the rest of the world on marriage? I'm so glad you put it that way. Don't do it.

No, Michael, my favorite quote on marriage comes from our mutual literary mentor, G.K. Chesterton, who said, marriage is a duel to the death that no man of honor should decline. That are similar words. So, yeah, you, my friend, are about to embark on the highest adventure imaginable, and that is the union of two sinners, each of which represent a mirror. I mean, your fiancé, soon to be your wife, God willing, will be your introduction to you, the real you. It's just like two giant, you know, two-sided mirrors, and likewise to her.

You're in for, I call them the three rings. There's a lot of talk of the engagement ring and the wedding ring. Well, there's the suffering, too. Marriage can be hard, you know. Marriage is the ultimate form of. friendship between two sexually attracted people. And when people ask me, let's say if they're dating and they're, they want some advice on whether or not they're compatible, I say, so are you, are you a boy? Yeah, you a girl? Yeah, okay, you're not compatible. So just go from there.

But no, it's also through the action of Christ, it's raised to the dignity of a sacrament. So you're also getting that third party in there. You know, Bishop Sheen's wonderful 1951 book, three to get married tells the tale very, very well of the sacramental grace that you bestow on your wife and she to you. So you kind of, you are the sacrament together. So congratulations. It's a lot of, they never tell you, it's a lot of fun. It's a lot of fun. I am looking forward to it, certainly. And, you know, I keep saying, I've been having a lot of fun in the run up to the wedding. So I've been telling sweet little Elisa things like, you know, hey, I think you're going to make a great starter wife. Or, you know, I can't, I can't wait for my first wedding. I can't, you know, I hope.

Maybe it'll be less stressful on my second one. And she does remind me, she says, you know, you're Catholic pal, which means you are stuck with me for all of eternity. But there's a lot of confusion about marriage these days. I love that you bring up the suffering, which is, I think, the most Catholic answer you could give, and very profound. Now we're very confused about marriage. There are new definitions of marriage. Certainly, by the logic of that Obergefell decision, it seems that there's no reason to, preclude polygamous marriages anymore. The nature of the whole thing keeps changing. Even within

one man and one woman, the nature of the institution is quite different now over the last 50, 60, 100 years. People are getting married later. There are different financial arrangements. Feminism has reared its ugly pink hat-plad head. You know, there are a lot of things that have affected marriage. Is there any hope to bringing a consensus back to marriage? Or a are we all going in our own directions? I think there's a lot more hope than there is despair. And the reason I say that is there's a common myth that's floated around. I've actually heard bishops repeat the myth.

And it's the 50-50 divorce rate. So, you know, marriage rates 50%. It's not true. That comes from a misunderstood, garbled interpretation of a 1990 Lewis Harris poll. And it failed to distinguish between people who had been married once. never divorced and people who had been multiply divorced in marriage and remarried. So imagine

you're at a dinner party and there's 12 couples there. And one of the couples is Liz Taylor and one of her husbands. So how do you reckon the divorce rate at the table, right? Well, it depends. There's a researcher named Shanti Feldon who has a book on this

and she says that for people just starting who've never been married before, the divorce rate's under 30%. Now it depends on where in the world that you, you know, cite that she's mostly dealing with American demographics. But I think you're right about the Obergefeld-Hodges decision of 2015. That was a big seismic shift change in our culture. And one of the interesting ironies to me, having debated it before, during and after that decision, is rather than, A, get into a conversation about homosexual behavior,

or B, be on the defensive and talk about real marriage or traditional marriage, ask the person who's advocating for the redefinition of marriage what his or her definition of marriage is. Like finish this sentence. Marriage is, and what you'll find is invariably their definition of marriage never mentions sex. Sounds like a boring marriage. Yeah, yeah, because a lot of scrabble, a lot of violent backgammon, apparently. So yeah, their definition of marriage tends to be some combination of, well, it's a warm, emotional, lifelong commitment between two people. And you say, hold in a second, why too?

On your definition, why would you limit marriage to monogamy? What's wrong with polygamy? And this is where it becomes the thin edge of the wedge. So I always encourage people who'd like to see marriage defined as it's been publicly defined for 4,000 years. This definition, by the way, pre-age Judaism. is not a Bible-based only, you know, Jesus, pointy hat, Pope document kind of definition. This belongs to human nature. That marriage is the lifelong union of one man and one woman till death, open to the adventure

of parenthood. That's what marriage is. Now, if you want to have a zebra, okay, you can argue for zebras, but it's not a thoroughbred. Right. That's a good way to put it. Yeah, different in kind, not just in degree. Well, they found to, sometimes people will say, well, what about in the Old Testament a, you know, men had multiple wives? And you say, okay, sure. So I'll even, I'll even grant that over the course of history, marriage has been the union of a husband and wives, at least one wife, and, you know, sometimes multiple wives. That's still pretty strict and that still includes the complementarity of the sexes. I love, you know, in that decision, in the big Supreme. court decision that changed the definition of marriage. Justice Kennedy wrote, he said that

the Constitution offered us a right to intimacy, which I never found that. And maybe it's somewhere in Article 5 or something. That should have come out earlier. I wish I'd known that. But I loved in Scalia's descent, the late great Justice Scalia, he said, okay, even if you find a right to intimacy, surely marriage constricts rather than expands the opportunities for intimacy, ask the nearest hippie. And it seems to be some of the illogic of their argument. Yeah, yeah, 100%. So that's good. So I, so that, that part is all very confused. Out of this confused culture, because we can't let more than 11 minutes go on this show without discussing Donald Trump. But I'd like your perspective on it as a Catholic because

evangelical, so out of this confused culture, we elected Donald Trump, you know, and he's done a pretty good job so far. Evangelical Christians, fundamentalist Christians, that kind of variety of American Christianity, they're getting a lot of flack because they've largely supported Donald Trump. And Catholics, like me, who have supported Donald Trump, I don't know, we get a little less flack. And I wonder if that's because the Catholic faith is different and makes different claims than fundamentalist varieties and evangelical varieties. Why are the evangelicals getting it so hard? And is it okay for a believing Christian who goes to church to support Donald Trump? That is an excellent question.

I don't want to give you a glib answer. This show is all glib. It's fine. You can give a, yeah, all glib stuff. Ruminate for 14 minutes. No, I think it's a very interesting question for a couple of reasons. My answer would be something like this. America in its founding documents is quasi-protistant.

It's secular, but there's a kind of a Christian soul to it. If you read the works of de Tocqueville and Chesterton's ruminations about traveling here in America, the Catholic faith is a kind of an exotic bird to most American Protestants. They just don't get that someone can be a citizen of one country and not have a political leader in Rome. And this is where John F. Kennedy made his, I think, maybe disastrous is overstating it, but his 1960 speech to the ministers in Houston, where he basically promised to be a bad Catholic. Right, right.

His faith would not inform his political decisions. Well, Catholics who are disciples of Jesus Christ do not believe that God especially gave the USA the promise of the Holy Spirit. You know, this country was not formed without original sin. It's not going to be preserved forever. Jesus promised the Spirit to his church. And so Catholic citizens of all variety of... political systems can coexist and flourish under communism, under a republic, under representative

government, under Canadian or English jurisprudence. So we're not as wedded to one way of being a citizen in a social political order. And I think therefore Catholics are, we're not wedded so much to who's in that office because we don't put our trust in princes and so on. Ultimately, I think, yeah, I think our point of loyalty is higher than the person who sits in the White House. I think you're exactly right. I think that's it. There is among certain varieties of Christianity in America. I think people endowed the White House in the Oval Office with this quasi-religious clerical status, which I don't even know if Catholics afford that status to the Pope. You know, it really has a special religious honor to it. And Catholics, we just say, you know, yeah, okay, this guy's in office.

He's doing good things. He says some funny things sometimes. And there will be another guy after him and another guy after him. And eventually, it'll all go away because, to quote John Maynard Keynes, which I do infrequently, but I like this one quote. In the long run, we're all dead. Yeah. Until we get eternal life. That's right.

Then another guy will return and put a big bow on everything. It's funny how worldview comes through in art sometimes. You've probably seen this in various meme forms online. It's a very Protestant-tie kind of a thing. I'll do respect to my separated brethren out there listening and watching. But it's a picture of – I first saw it with President Bush, and he's at the White House, and he's in prayer, okay? So the Bible's on the Oval Office desk, and he's in prayer.

And above him, there's Jesus, like the Mormon missionary Jesus with his hand on Bush's shoulder. And there's Abraham Lincoln, and there's George Washington. Wait a second. That's the community of the saints. I thought you didn't believe in that. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, what happened? Yeah, the cloud of witnesses, they all have to be president.

Anyway, that's exactly right. I think it gets to the point that everybody's got to serve somebody, and I find when people reject aspects of faith, natural aspects of faith, they just get really superstitious. So they say, oh, how could you ever pray to the saints? But then there's this deification of Abraham Lincoln or, or George Washington or something. Very good men.

Probably they are saints, but you've got to believe in the saints first. Before I let you go, I've got a couple more minutes. I want to ask you about a really important question. You smoke the occasional cigar. You have the occasional glass of scotch. I do. I'm by both. I've been known to do that a bit myself.

I notice conservative guys tend to flock to those two passions and pursuits, and especially the Catholics, especially the, why is that? What is it about the conservative character and the Christian character, the Catholic character? Because a lot, you know, certain Protestant groups, they say no drinking, you can't drink, you know, they're a little more teetoteling. Some of my waspy ancestors were like that. The Catholic side, you know, they pour a lot of wine. What is it about the conservatives and the Catholics that make us like to have a good time every now and again? Excellent question.

I heard a ribble joke from a former Southern B. Baptist and I'll share it with you. It's it's the observation that strict Southern Baptists are not permitted to have sex standing up, not even in marriage. Do you know why? No. It might lead to dancing. So the Catholic worldview is very much focused on John 10 verse 10. I came that you would have life and have it abundantly. The scene at the wedding of Cana makes no sense whatsoever if what they're drinking is grape juice. Right. Because there's there's a implication there. And also one of the proverbs says, you know, wine makes you happy. Wine, you know, gladdens the heart.

I can attest. So I can, I've experimented. So that's, that's for the whiskey and the adult beverages, in moderation, of course. Now, for the cigar smoking, I believe there is a almost biblical precedent for this. And it runs like this. Under the old dispensation, God commanded the Hebrews to incense the temple as part of the Jewish liturgy. How much more in the new dispensation, the new covenant, should we incense the temple of the body, the Holy Spirit temple of the body? That is so true. I have frequently said this. The body is a temple and the temple needs incense. It's my little Cuban thurible, you know, I have to, I think it was.

It's a good brand. Yeah, it's going to be when I retire, when Ben retires me finally and fires me, that's going to be my new line of, that's going to be my new line of work making durable cigars. The G.K. Chesterton, who I think we've only referenced 150 times in the last six minutes, Chesterton said the Catholic Church is like a thick stake, a glass of red wine, and a good cigar. And even in that first miracle at Cana, it's turning the water of ritual into the wine of celebration. And it's also obviously prefiguring the water and the blood, the Christ's blood that flows on the cross. but there is such a joy that comes out of that, right? It's, hey, guys, this is the good news. This isn't the dower news.

Right, and you're about to participate in that great mystery, that great sacrament of matrimony. And it's called matrimony, I think, for a profound reason. Matrimony makes mothers. Mater is Latin for mother, and hence that connection with fertility and fecundity and union. And the wedding of Cana miracle is very interesting to me. me because he doesn't heal anybody by it. He just does it because it's a like a supercharged

supernatural injection of joy into an already happy moment. And this is one more reason to love being Catholic. That's so true. That's really good. And at my wedding, I'm certainly following in the footsteps of that first miracle. I suppose I'm going to have to lean in to that free-flowing red wine and take one for the team. Take one for the team, you know. Well, Patrick, that is, this is, there's no way I'm going to run for the door. Sweet little Elisa might run and leave a sweet little Elisa shaped hole in the wall, but I'm very excited to get married and I appreciate it. When I get back, we'll have to do a cigar and scotch back on the West Coast.

Your lips to God's ears. That would be great. And keep in touch. Folks want to keep in touch, Coffin Nation.com, launching a membership site. And I appreciate your time. Absolutely. And where can people find you on Twitter and Facebook and all that? Yeah, very good. Well, the public page is Patrick Coffin, author and podcaster, Demi,

demi-god, something. And Patrick underscore Coffin at Twitter, and Coffin Nation.com is a good spot to start. Well, I got to say, I've always loved your programs on the radio, on podcast. It's really helped me think through faith and Christianity and issues even more banal than all that and more political and cultural and all that. I've always enjoyed your programs and writing. So I urge you to read Patrick's books and check out his shows. All right.

move on. Thank you, Patrick. All right. Thanks a lot. Take care. We will move on to the mailbag, but I got to say goodbye. I'm sorry, guys. I got a good mailbag today, and we're going to have to fly through it because I got to go catch a flight. You know, I'm hanging out with Ali Stucky later today. She's coming by, and I wonder how long she's going to excoriate me for how popish this show was today, for talking to Patrick Coffin. I'm going to get a good talking to from my Protestant friend. If you're on Facebook or YouTube, go to Daily Wire. If you're on DailyWire, thank you very much. You help us keep the lights on.

You keep Cofafefe in my cup. Go to DailyWire.com. You get me, the Andrew Claven Show, the Ben Shapiro show, $10 a month, $100 for an annual membership. None of that matters. Because when those NFL players, when they can't kneel, when little Rocket Man just starts getting a one-way ticket straight to the moon, we blast them off the face of the earth,

these leftist tears are going to flow. And I won't be with you for, you know, my honeymoon. I'm not going to be around. I am obviously bringing this to the beach with me, not to save me from the ocean, but to save me from all the leftist years. You should too. It's the only FDA-approved device.

Go to Dailywire.com. We'll be right back with the mailbag. Not a lot of time left, but we're going to fly through. We're going to do as much as we can from Mark. Dear Michael J. Knowles, or current resident of the Ben Shapiro Broom Closet, congratulations on your upcoming nuptials. My brother is getting married this Saturday, and I'm delivering the best man's speech.

if you have a younger brother, if you had one, or is there anything that you would want him to say is your best man? And is there anything you would not want him to say? All the best, Mark Levin. Is that the real Mark Levin? I don't know if you're getting me. Okay. That's A Mark Levin. Yes, I have strong opinions about this. I have very strong opinions about speeches at weddings because they're all terrible and there are too many of them and they're terrible. Statistically 100% of the time. So yes, here's the main thing. I've helped people write speeches for weddings before, and here's what I do. They hand me a little piece of paper like this, and I read through their speech, and I cross out every instance of the first person singular pronoun. Because this is what it always goes. The best man, now sometimes maid of honor gives a speech, because, you know, the glory of Europe is extinguished forever and the age of chivalry is dead. So the best man, though, let's say he gets up there and I'll say, you know, I couldn't be happier for a, Johnny. I remember when Johnny and I were doing something that I like to do with me. And then he and I did this and it was really funny for me. And then frequent, so, okay, the first bit is, don't talk about

yourself if you're giving the speech. Talk about the couple. Talk about the bride and the groom. The next one is, and this should be a basic one, but this happens all the time. If you're giving a speech about the bride or the groom, do not reference other people with whom they have had sex. I know that seem that you would think that would be basic etiquette. I have been to many weddings, many weddings where the best man or the maid of honor will talk about like past boyfriends and oh, you should have seen the guy she was bringing home, you know, I don't want to think about that on the wedding day. What's a matter with you? So get that one out of there. Remember it's not about you. Don't talk about the bride and groom having sex with other people. And keep it short. Keep it

really short. This is not, this is supposed to be a toast. And, okay, and then I've been to somewhere the bride and the groom speak. Don't do that. Don't do. You're, look, it's, people want to see you as like a little figure on a cake. They want you to be beautiful and nice. You don't need to talk. The minute you open your mouth, you're going to shatter that fantasy. This is a day of people doing nice things for you. You don't need to speak. And then all of the, I mean, all these speeches now, they're this father and they're that father. Traditionally speaking, it's the father of the bride and the best man. Boom, that's it. one and done, get out of here.

Now, like, you know, everybody has to go. It's like the roast. It's like a Dean Martin roast or something. None of that. Keep it short, keep it sweet. And, you know, focus on the stuff that matters. You're there with your friends. You're celebrating that you've had a sacrament together.

Do that. Don't put on a variety act up there. Okay, next question from Marcus. Dear Michelangelo di Trollo, Miguelangelo di Trollo, Dimm me, D'I, I've noticed that you don't end your shows with stuff I like. Is this because in Catholicism, if you like something,

that it's probably a sin? Good observation. In all seriousness, stuff I like can help your audience get to know you. For example, do you prefer fiction to nonfiction? Do you enjoy any music from the 1900s that isn't in a musical or movie score? Looking at you, Shapiro. Do you enjoy movies with leftist messages despite their messaging? Yeah, I don't really do stuff I like.

Although I have to push back a little on the Catholic thing because we do go into suffering and we do, you know, mea culpa, meaaculpa. But I believe it was Puritanism, which was defined as the heart-stopping fear that somewhere someone is having a good time. You know, the Catholic Church, they pour out the wine pretty freely at least. There's something there. Okay, what did you ask? So do I enjoy, do I prefer fiction to nonfiction? No, I prefer nonfiction.

I almost exclusively read nonfiction, which is tough because one of my very good friends is a famed novelist. So I really like Drew's books. Drew's books are really good. But I just don't read fiction that much, and I should, because fiction is better than nonfiction, and it tells you more about the human condition. I just don't get around to doing it too much because I'm too busy reading all these fun books for people that I talk to on the show. Do you enjoy any music from the 1900s, 20th century that isn't in a musical or movie score? Oh, yeah, totally. I like a lot of popular music in small doses.

Most of the time, I usually just listen to classical or occasionally jazz. Like, I never listen to the rock station in the car or anything like that. I don't run playlists. Usually books are classical. But, yeah, if I'm hanging out or about to go out or, you know, having a little after-dinner drink or something, yeah, I like, I like music even up to, like, the 1980s. It's pretty modern, man. That's like the most modern, conservative guys get. How many more questions did you?

All right. Well, I lost my place. so no one's out here. From Corey. Dear Michael, I've found as I've taken more responsibility in my life and dug more into what it means to be conservative and conservative values, I've found myself growing stronger in my Christian faith

as I saw a clear correlation. Why is it that some conservatives try to separate themselves from the Christian faith that is part of the pillar of conservatism? Thanks, Corey. It's because they don't recognize it. It's because they don't. We can extend this a little bit too to Jews, non-religious Jews.

They don't see how all of these thoughts come out of, that come back as early as Genesis, right? They just don't recognize it, I think. I don't think that they are actively disagreeing with true religion and the religious basis of these thoughts. I just think they haven't thought through it, really. It has frequently been said, I forget whose quote this is. Maybe it's Chesterton.

All the quotes are Chesterton, is that no one has ever tried the Christian faith and found it lacking or, you know, assailed the Christian faith. Christian faith successfully, they just assail a caricature. They try the Christian faith and they find it hard and they don't want to keep doing it or something. That is, I think, the real issue. So if people say, I want low taxes, but I don't care about all that abortion stuff, I heard this. Ann Coulter once said to me, I was with a group of college students and she said, when you have two candidates, even if you personally don't care about abortion, when you have two candidates who promise to lower your taxes, one is pro-life,

one supports abortion. Vote for the candidate who is pro-life. He will lower your taxes more. And what she's saying is the candidate who, the lower taxes comes from a defense of liberty, an appreciation of liberty and life and one's role in the world. And that comes from natural rights, which comes from natural law, which comes from the natural law giver, which comes from the Christian tradition, which comes from, which then leads on to bioethical thought, the human dignity, how we ought to protect life from the very beginning. Life either has value or it doesn't. Life is either sacred or it's not sacred. Innocent life. And so there's a coherence to that one guy's thought, the pro-life cut your taxes guy, that there isn't for the pro-choice cut your taxes guy. Excuse me.

So there are plenty of conservatives who say, oh, I'm an atheist or I don't think about religion, or I'm spiritual but not religious. And I'm great, be a conservative. That's fabulous. I'm thrilled to have you. When you start thinking a little bit about it, I think that that atheism is going to wear away. Do we have time for one or two more? All right. We got time for one more. One, that's it, just one more. From Jonathan.

Ah, it's too bad. I had really good questions in here today. Well, maybe I'll do like a Facebook Live from the beach or something. From Jonathan. Hello, I am going to be a junior in college this coming academic year, but I'm unsure about keeping my major in business administration, and I'm unsure of what I want to do when I graduate college. I have many paths to choose, but I know that only one of them can be chosen. Are there any tips you have for matters like this? Don't become an actor. That's my main advice.

That's my professional advice to everybody. What should I do? Don't be an actor. That's my main advice. Okay, you're in an interesting position. So, I don't, you know, regardless of what the major is, I don't know that your major is going to determine what you do. I'll just use my own life as an example. I studied history and Italian literature. I've trained at very serious acting conservatories for a long time. I moved to New York. I worked in politics and in theater. Theater in New York, film, television, moved to L.A. was still working in both of those things. Then I ended up not writing a book. Now I have a show. Now your career can take pretty weird paths. Does any of that have to do with my Italian literature degree or my history degree or my theses I wrote in college?

I don't know. Maybe, maybe not. You should not go into a lot of debt to just because. You shouldn't go to law school just because that's the next thing to do. You should go to law school because you want to be a lawyer. You should go to medical school because you want to be a doctor. But you can't plan these things out perfectly. So I don't, I wouldn't worry that you have to plan everything out when you're a junior. Just work. God can't drive a parked car. So just work. Be doing. Don't be thinking about what you're going to do. Be doing it. I've been doing show business stuff and working in politics for as long as I can remember, certainly since I was 18. And just doing it. Do it through college. Just keep doing. And the more you do, you're going to be

able to figure out, maybe I'm good at this. I'm better at this. I should try to do this a little bit more. okay, maybe I'll take this class then because of that. But you're going to figure it out by doing. You're not going to figure it out by philosophizing and thinking and abstracting everything. You're a conservative. Don't live in abstraction. Don't live in theory. Live in practice.

Okay, that's our show. I got to go catch a flight. Well, I got to hang out with Ali Stuckey and get yelled at first. But then I got to catch a flight. So I will see you guys. I'll be broadcasting all next week from New York. Tune in for that. Have a good Memorial Day weekend.

Don't do anything that I wouldn't do. But it'll be my bachelor party, so that will give you a pretty wide breadth. In the meantime, I'm Michael Knowles. This is the Michael Knowles Show. I'll see you next week. The Michael Knowles Show is produced by Sennia Villa Reel. Executive producer Jeremy Boring. Senior producer, Jonathan Hay. Our supervising producer, Mathis Glover. And our technical producer is Austin Stevens. Edited by Jim Nickel. Audio is mixed by Mike Coramina. Hair and makeup is by Jesua Olvera. The Michael Knowles Show is a Daily Wire Forward Publishing Production, Copyright Forward Publishing, 2018.