The Michael Knowles Show - GOP Launches A Secret Weapon On Libs: Goth "Baddies"

Episode Date: July 3, 2026

The rise of the right-wing goth baddie is upon us, a Democrat campaign staffer calls for a trans jihad and murder of Republicans, and President Trump swings by the Teddy Roosevelt library to remind us all how terrible this year would have been with a lib president. Ep. 2008 - - - Today's Sponsors: Boll & Branch - Sleep cooler this summer with Boll & Branch during their Annual Summer Event. For a limited time, get 20% off sitewide at https://BollAndBranch.com/knowles with code knowles. Pepperdine University - If you’re serious about serving your community—or even serving your country—Pepperdine’s School of Public Policy is worth exploring. Visit https://go.pepperdine.edu/dailywire Mount Titano Media - Go to https://MountTitanoMedia.com to get your copy of Finding Our Words: Words That Made America. - - - DailyWire+: Click here to join the member-exclusive portion of my show: https://dailywire.com/subscribe Becoming a Daily Wire member allows you to see all of our content ad-free. 📲 Download the free Daily Wire app today on iPhone, Android, Roku, Apple TV, Samsung, and more. 🎆 Celebrate Independence Day with a DailyWire+ membership! 🇺🇸 Our 4th of July SALE offers 3-Months of DailyWire+ for $17.76 📜 📘 My book "Speechless: Controlling Words, Controlling Minds" is available here: https://dwplus.shop/Speechless 📗 My book "Reasons to Vote for Democrats: A Comprehensive Guide" is available here: https://dwplus.shop/ReasonsToVoteForDemocrats 🕯️ Get your Michael Knowles candles: https://thecandleclub.com/collections/michael-knowles 👕 Don’t dress like a squish. Shop my merch here: https://dwplus.shop/MichaelKnowlesMerch - - - Socials: YouTube — https://youtube.com/@MichaelKnowles Facebook — https://www.facebook.com/michaelknowlesshow Instagram — https://www.instagram.com/michaeljknowles TikTok — https://www.tiktok.com/@notmichaelknowles X — https://twitter.com/michaeljknowles - - - Privacy Policy: https://www.dailywire.com/privacy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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terrible this year would have been with a Lib president presiding over America's 250th anniversary of Michael Knowles' The Michael Knowles Show. Welcome back to the show. James Talarico, who the polls are showing might be the Democrat, senator from Texas very soon. he wants you all to know that his whiteness and his masculinity limits his imagination. That guy could be, that guy like right now, odds on the numbers, very good chance that guy is going to be the senator from Texas. We'll get to that in a moment. First, though, smash that like button and subscribe.

Also check us out on Spotify where you can download full episode audio and video to watch or listen whenever you want without using your data. Do not miss an episode. Before we get to anything, I want to tell you about Boll and Branch. Go to Boll and Branbranche.com slash Knowles. B-O-L-L-A-N-D, B-R-A-N-C-H-com slash Knowles. There are few better feelings than getting home after a long day, taking a shower, climbing into your own bed. And there are few worse feelings than immediately realizing this bed is not nearly as comfortable as I remember.

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For a limited time, get 20% off sitewide. Bullenbranche.com slash Knowles. Code Knowles. Bulland-B-L-L-L-A-N-C-H dot com slash knolls. Code Knowles. Code Knowles to take 20% off. Bolinbranche.com slash Knowles. Code Knowles. Exclus. apply. I hate to admit that Mr. Davies, the producer of this show, is sometimes right. I tease this a little bit yesterday. I have to get to it. He has been saying for weeks now that I need to cover the rise of the goth batty. I said, what are you talking about the goth batty? He was saying, no, Michael, my whole social media feed is just being inundated with really good looking goth girls. It's just, it's a social phenomenon. I said, no, no, no, that's a social phenomenon. I said, no, no, that's

your feed phenomenon. I said, I don't know what kind of sick, perverted, freakish things you look up on your computer. But I'm not seeing that anywhere. I said, that's not a real trend. And it takes a big, handsome guy wearing a red, white, and blue plaid shirt to admit when he's wrong, because the new star GOP congressional candidate coming out of Colorado is, in fact, I think it's fair to say, nothing lecherous in the observation. She's a goth batty. This is Kelly Denison. She just won the Colorado second congressional primary, and she is not your typical Republican, at least in the way she looks. She's a 27-year-old massage therapist.

Her picture that is being posted around in the news reports of her victory was actually taken in front of St. Joseph Catholic Parish, great signs. I was in Fort Collins this year. And she probably doesn't have a chance to win the race. I think the district is D plus 20 or something like that. But she won the primary. She has now won the hearts and minds, the fascination of at least many Republicans on the internet.

And it made me have to contemplate whether or not Mr. Davies was seeing a trend. And why it would be that a goth chick would be a conservative Republican. I've noticed this. You know, I travel around the country, go to a lot of churches when I'm around the country, go to a lot of events. And I've noticed this. I actually, I did not on my social media feeds, but in real life. I have been noticing more and more goth growth.

Like the kind of thing you saw in the late 90s, white makeup, dark hair, some piercings, black eyelashes, black clothing. I have been seeing them crop up more and more. And you would often imagine them being on the left or maybe even the radical left if they weren't totally politically apathetic. But I've been noticing them more and more on the right. Why is that? In a way, it makes perfect sense. Because the goth aesthetic rose out of the Victorian era. The best explanation I've heard for the rise of the goth aesthetic, which really took on prominence in America during the 80s, punk, post-punk, then Hot Topic, kind of commercialized it. But it comes from the Victorian era because Queen Victoria spent a very, very long time

mourning the death of her husband, Prince Albert, so she wore a lot of black, and that's what it draws on. And it draws on other cultural influences from that era, from the 19th century, the Gothic novels, Mary Shelley's Frankenstein. The kind of culture. that is about enchantment. The kind of culture that is about the supernatural, things that are a little uncanny, eerie, numinous, a little bit spooky,

the kind of culture that takes religion seriously. What's interesting about the goth aesthetic is in the goth aesthetic, you could see someone wearing a pentagram or a crucifix, totally opposite religious views, but nevertheless taking religion seriously, whether it be in an occult and rather bad religious form, or in a good religious form, which is in the form of Christianity. I mean, even the word goth coming from Gothic, you know, the Goths who sacked Rome,

but then the great Gothic cathedrals and then into the Gothic novels of the era. And I thought, you know, in a way, this makes perfect sense because we live in this world that has been so disenchanted. We live in this world where everything is so clinical, everything is mediated by technology, where everything seems so clinical, so scientific, so plain. our longings, our desires, our hopes and our dreams, they're all reduced to chemicals firing off in our brains or some other mechanical processes. And human beings realize that that doesn't really fully explain the world. It doesn't even come close. It doesn't explain the most important things in the world.

And so I think we're living in an era. This is also why you're seeing a big return to religion, and especially the more sacramental and traditional forms of religion, the liturgical kind of religion, the smells and bells kind of religion. you're seeing people recognize that we know that the world really is enchanted and we need to re-enchant ourselves with it. We're living post-stupid new atheism. We're now in a world where we start to take religion and spiritual matters seriously. Even those gothic novels, you know,

they're very romantic. It coincides with the romantic era. And we live in a world where we're told we're just supposed to have, you know, clinical partnerships with our, you know, I'm going to go, I'm going to propose marriage to my partner because we're really good. We help each other and we're all going to just like do the dishes and we're going to be exactly co-equals, undifferentiated and it's all. It's just like

so lame. And we want romance. We want to, we want to be that couple climbing up the Empire State building, taken a knee and proposing on top of a needle above New York City. So we are living at a time. maybe I'm reading too deeply into this congressional primary candidate, but I don't think I am. I think it's indicative of a broader trend. We're in a time that calls for enchantment and romance and religion. We are in an age that calls for the return of the goth batty, and the goth batty will not be on the left. The goth batty will be on the side that is looking for a return of those things, and that is conservatives and Republicans generally. Okay, now, but let's look at the Democrats. What are they up to? this is something that would come out of a gothic novel, a horror novel or a horror movie,

a Democrat campaign staffer has just called on followers to, quote, kill your local Republican and commit trans jihad, trans jihad, two of our favorite things, transgenderism and Islam. Combine them, what could go wrong? They do actually kind of combine in a lot of activism. This person, his name, I guess it's a him, but he thinks he's a girl, is Tija deliruel. I don't think that's his Christian name, but that's the name he goes by. He was a volunteer staffer

for Wisconsin Democrat Socialist candidate, Katrina DeVille. Katrina DeVille, I don't know what Katrina DeVille's real name is because Katrina DeVille is also transgender. This Democrat candidate in Wisconsin also trans. So this fella, the staffer, I was photographed sitting in front of a dry race board

scrolled with the words, quote, kill your local Republican in Black Marker. And he says, we're going to make this the moderate position for the state of Wisconsin. Wisconsin, which I believe has pushed more serial killers on America than any other state in the country. Now, this is the trans stuff. The trans people are kind of like the er,

evil version of the goth batty. This is like everything goes wrong. This is the villain from the Gothic novel. But I guess what's really troubling about all of this, this person calling for a trans jihad, is how not weird he is. I mean, he's weird. Don't get me wrong.

He's weird, but he's not weird by the standards of the modern Democrat Party. I mean, just listen to the reporting. He was working for another tranny. a tranny who is now not uncommon for a transvestite to be in public office. There was a time 10 years ago. That would have been completely absurd in both parties. Now, there's a transvestite in Congress, sitting in Congress as a member, a Democrat, of course. What the left is going to want to do is say that the trans staffer calling for the murder of all Republicans is an aberration.

This is not what we're about. And the Republicans are going to pounce on this story, but this is not indicative at all of what the Democrats are. And the problem is it is. There's a big difference. Think about back in the 90s, we had like David Duke. But a similar version of that in the mid-20 teens, which was Richard Spencer, who was a kind of more intelligent, more intellectual version of David Duke, but still white identitarian who would say, high-ell victory and had, Nazi leanings. What's ironic about Richard Spencer is Richard Spencer, I think, is now a Democrat because he says the Republicans can't do anything. But whatever, my only point is, whether they were

pointing to Richard Spencer or David Duke, the Republicans certainly could say, well, no, we're not about that. They are advancing views that we don't agree with. So much so that Richard Spencer, says, I'm done with Republicans. I'm just going to vote for Democrats. At least they're confident. But you could say in the 90s, David Duke could be calling for all these things. And it was all the Republicans would say, no, no, no, we support colorblind meritocracy. No, no, no, we're the party that freed the slaves from those Democrats who own the slaves. No, no, no, we don't have anything in common with this guy. He is not one of us. The Democrats can't say that about these guys. They can't say that about transgenderism. Obviously, there's a trans-identified member of Congress.

They've almost uniformly embraced the transgender ideology in recent years, and they can't even run away from it now that it's totally unpopular. But furthermore, a huge swath of Democrats, prominent mainstream Democrats have embraced political violence as well, including minimizing and excusing and celebrating the murder of Charlie Kirk, who was the most mainstream Republican. When it says, kill your local Republican, we're talking about that kind of guy. So they're totally different scenarios. And unfortunately, I'm open to a rebuttal, but unfortunately, it seems to me that what's this person's name?

DeVille, Curella DeVille, I don't know, whatever the trans staffer's name is, working for the their trans candidate, that has become the norm. And if you get enough drinks, or probably more like hard drugs when it comes to that side, if you got enough drinks into even your mainstream Democrats, something tells me they would start defending or at least minimizing and justifying political violence. Something tells me they wouldn't be so totally opposed to trans jihad. very, very dangerous. The staffer calling for this violence is at most, I'm being as charitable as I can, is at most an exaggeration of the norm.

David Duke in the 90s, that was a contradiction of the Republican platform. This person is at most a slight exaggeration of where normal Democrats are at. Normal Democrats increasingly a contradiction in terms. Now, speaking of trans-liberal Democrats trying to murder Republicans, We have finally gotten the sentencing for the guy who tried to kill Brett Kavanaugh. Remember this? A big story that kind of went away. The person who over Kavanaugh's decision to overrule Roe v. Wade traveled across the country,

tried to murder him and potentially his whole family in his house. We have just gotten the sentencing. And it turns out that he, too, is trans. It's always the ones you most expect. We'll get to that momentarily first, though. Speaking of understanding public policy and politics, I want to tell you, about Pepperdine. Go topeperdine.edu slash Daily Wire. Someone's going to write the laws. Someone's going to shape public policy. Someone is going to advise elected officials, elite agencies, and make decisions

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is worth exploring. Go to go.peperdine.edu slash dailywire. That is go. dotpeperdine.edu slash daily wire. The man who tried to murder, Brett Kavanaugh, has been sentenced to eight years in prison and is now a chick.

And what's really that's not surprising transgenderism is an intrinsically violent identity and ideology because it is at odds with one of the most basic aspects of nature that being sexual difference that is

at the heart of distinctions between human beings, much more so than race or ideology or geography or whatever. The distinction between man and woman is core to human identity. And so when you have a problem with that, when you're at odds with that, you are simply inclined, more inclined to be violent. What is somewhat surprising, at least to me, is the way the Washington Post reported on this. The Washington Post, she got eight years for plotting to kill Justice Kavanaugh. Prosecutors want more. The Justice Department is appealing the

sentence of Sophie Roski, Sophie Roski, who pled guilty in the case. there you have it. Most people would remember, say, hold on, I thought it was a guy who tried to kill Kavanaugh. Yeah. And then like a lot of these wackos, whether for sincere psychosis or just for cynical reasons so that he could be housed in prison with women,

which would be easier on him, maybe so that he could commit more crimes, who knows. Regardless, he now identifies as a woman and the Washington Post is going along with it. The she and the Sophie and the her and... We're still doing this. We're still doing this. And as I mentioned at the top, right now the Republican election chances are looking pretty bad. It looks like the midterms are going to be as bad if not worse as some people were fearing a couple months ago. We're still in silly season. Things could change,

but the Iran war really hasn't helped the historical fact of the midterm after one party wins the whole government. Things are compounding at this point to not look great for Republicans. And We could be back to 2023-era peak woke like that. Like that. It's happening. The Washington Post wants to do it. The Democrat Party wants to do it. The electeds, the people on TV want to do it.

The rank and file Democrats want to do it. They want to bring that back. And there is one guy. There is this catacon-like figure who is stopping them from doing it. And it's Trump. And I get frustrations with Trump. I get that you wish he had done more. on immigration. Some people want him to do less on immigration. Or you wish he had bombed Iran harder,

or you wish he hadn't bombed Iran at all. And I understand. I don't even mean to make light of it. I understand the issues that people have with Trump. He is the only reason that we don't live in a world full of trans-jihad and this wacko identifying as a woman and the newspapers calling all the men chicks. It's just him. The only reason that that abated at all was because, after the 2024 election, the powers that be got really scared, the cultural powers that B got really scared that Republicans had unified government. They were going to come after them. And they saw the popular vote went the way of the conservative. So that's what they pulled back for now. It could all come back in a second. This is what brings me to President Trump at the Roosevelt

Library. A couple days ago, President Trump went to the Teddy Roosevelt, not the Franklin Roosevelt, the Teddy Roosevelt Presidential Library. It was great. The motorcade had horses. It was very Teddy Roosevelt. There's this great clip of Trump debating or interacting with an AI of Teddy Roosevelt. It's all kind of fun, wacky stuff. We don't have time to get to all of it. But here is just a little bit of his comments, days before the 250th official anniversary of the United States. From winning our independence to laying the railroads taming the West and planting our flag on the moon, nothing great that America has ever done. has come without staggering effort and has never come easy.

It's been really an unflagging persistence that drove us into greatness. We had the persistence of great people, great men, great women. They were persistent. They never gave up. This country was built on the conviction that just because something is hard to do, that only means that Americans try even harder and they succeed almost all the time. Because whatever the obstacle, whatever the challenge,

it's no match for American grit. And you have it probably as much or more than any other place there is. You have American grid. Okay. And you love it. You got the guys with the bandanas and the cowboy hats on behind him. And it's just, it's all great, nice big belt buckles, real Americana. And he's just talking about how great America is. and the spirit that built America. He's really invoking the spirit of Teddy Roosevelt,

who, you know, maybe until Trump, did this kind of thing second to none. I mean, there are so many parallels between Trump and Teddy Roosevelt all the way down to hosting combat sports at the White House. Teddy Roosevelt would host boxing matches. It was pre-UFC, but he would host boxing matches at the White House. He would even participate in them sometimes. And there was one time you had to stop participating in them because he was boxing some guy and the guy got him in the head and partially blinded him. TR was partially permanently blinded because he was as president participating in boxing match at the White House. So a lot of similarities there. But all that could go through my head while I'm watching these great comments, totally normal, you know, nothing, nothing all that

remarkable about the comments. America's a great place. You know, we've done great things. We should do more great things. What went through my head is what could have been. because had Trump lost in 2024, let's just start there, had Trump lost in 2024, some Democrat, Kamal Harris would be presiding over the country for our 250th. What speech would she have given at the Teddy Roosevelt Library? She wouldn't have gone. But what speech would she have given at the Franklin Roosevelt Library? What speech would Joe Biden had he been able to pull the drool up from his lower lip and actually stick it out through the campaign? What speech would he have given at the library? Even Biden, who's supposed to be the old school, more establishment, more

moderate Democrat. Well, but the party moves so far to the left, all of a sudden Joe Biden's embracing like transing the kids, literally transing the kids. The speech would have been, and America, America, listen, we've had our challenges. We haven't lived up to our ideals. We haven't, we failed a lot. We've done a lot of bad things. We're racist. The worst, the original sin of America of slavery, we've never totally gotten past it. This is a place we've gone to wars we shouldn't have gone to. we've oppressed people, we've kept women down on, don't get me started on the gays. We haven't done enough for the gays and the trans and the trans kids and man, we suck. We're a terrible country.

But we try to be better. And every day we elect another Democrat, there's a chance we could be better. But still, a lot of our bitter clinging, hideous, rude, toothless citizens, they want to drag us down into Nazism. They're with their deplorable politics. But we're going to try so that there will be. a chicken in every pot and a trans kid in every garage. That's what the speeches would have been. It would have been a year of that.

We're looking ahead, obviously, the Fourth of July is tomorrow. It would have been a year of that. And we don't have that. Instead, we have big monuments, new arcs going up in D.C., big state fair on the National Mall, great speeches, bunting, and banners and flags. And at the very least, even in a polarized country, where one major political party has collapsed in its patriotism reflected in every social media,

every social scientific survey. At least in that country, we got the face of the country, the guy with the bully pulpit saying, this is a great country. We've done great things, and we should be proud of that, and we should build on that. And then what that got me thinking, final point on this, then we'll get to James Tallerico's struggles with his whiteness and masculinity. But what if Trump had remained in office after 2020? What if the 2020 election had turned out differently. Let's just say hypothetically the Democrats hadn't changed all of the rules in the lead-up to the election and increased the opportunities for voter fraud inestimably.

And what if, just however it shook out, I'm not, what if Trump had remained in office? Well, then he would have been term-limited out in 2024. And Mike Pence, I guess, would have been the nominee. And I like Mike Pence. but look, after two terms of any party, it's hard to keep holding on to the power, especially with someone like Trump, we would have had a Democrat.

And this is the way, it just, it's the silver lining of this, one of the silver linings that we have of the suffering that we face, is that God and his providence sees a lot more than we do, to put it mildly. And even, we were so disappointed. I certainly was disappointed when Trump,

when the election turned out the way it did. I can't say Trump lost. I don't, when it turned. out the way it did. I was really disappointed. And yet, imagine, imagine what we'd all be thinking now if we'd had a Democrat in 2025. Okay, before we get to James Tala Rico's sexual and racial struggles, I want to tell you about Mount Titano Media. Go to Mount Titano Media.com. As we get closer to America's 250th anniversary, I have been thinking about a simple question. How much of our own history do we actually remember? Not the dates, not the trivia, the words, the speeches, the arguments, the ideas

that shaped the country in the first place. Because one of the strange realities of modern education is that Americans are constantly told what to think about their history while spending very little time actually reading the people who made it. That is one reason I'm very excited to be part of a new project from Mount Tutano Media.

It's called Finding Our Words, Words that made America. I think I have the book right here. Look at that. This is a great, great book. The book collects some of the most important speeches in American history, many of which have been almost completely forgotten despite helping define the American experiment itself.

Now there's a new Audible Edition featuring voices you might recognize. Spencer Claven, who cares? Andrew Claven? Yeah, yawn, Bill Whittle. No, I'm not listening to that. Military leaders, educators, scholars, and yours truly. That's the key. Okay, it's a really, really great book.

I just totally love it. You will get contacts from journalist Tracy Lee Simmons and editor Alison Ellis. Go check it out right now. Mount Titanomedia.com. It's your copy of finding our words, words that made America, mount Titano Media.com. What you would have gotten. What you would have gotten. You can get a preview of what you would have gotten, the kind of speech you would have gotten, had a dem been in office for the 250th anniversary.

From the potential, if not likely, future senator from Texas, James Tala rica. I should mention, you know, my imagination is also just limited by my own background and identity, right? my whiteness, my masculinity, all those things limit my imagination about what's possible. So I have to continually press against that to try to expand the limits of what I'm dreaming of for our community. And that's where, you know, Dr. Robin, your book helps me do that and podcasts like this helped me do that. His struggle, he has this big struggle. The Germans call it a conf. James Telerico's struggle is with his sexuality.

breaking news. It's not exactly man bites dog story there. James Tala Rico struggles with his sexuality, but also with his race, his whiteness, which limits his imagination. Now, what's so funny about this is, at a very basic level, I guess we could agree with him. In other words, it is the case, no matter how enlightened and wise we are. And people who are wiser, who have some humility, who have gained in wisdom and knowledge, they can largely transcend the confines of their circumstances. But there's always some limit. That's true. I guess that's true. In a certain sense, we can all say that we're limited by our race, by our sex, by our socioeconomic circumstances. But I guess you could say that. But he would never say this about any other race or any other sex.

So here's what I want to hear from James Taylorico in total charity. I say, Okay, you're limited by being white. Man, I hope he comes on and does an interview. He obviously will not. But you say you're limited because white people are limited by their race. Men are limited by their sex. And their imagination is confined because of that. So can you say, hey, hey, blacks, your imagination is confined by your race?

I don't think you would say that. Hey, ladies. Hey, ladies, I know you're getting a little mouthy here. But just remember, your imagination is confined by your sex. woman, know your limits, woman. Would he, would he say, uh, probably not? So unfortunately, he's making this like really, really overstated point because people who have charity, who have some goodwill, who have reason, who exercise their reason and

try to grow in knowledge, your imagination can go pretty far. I actually, I can imagine what it's like to be people who are pretty different for me. I can even imagine what it's like to be James Talarico, I guess. I really got a stretch for that one, but I guess I could. good. But not only is he making this just tedious, HR diversity training session kind of nauseating point, but he doesn't even believe it because it's not really a principle he holds because he wouldn't apply it evenly. Okay. Speaking of weird sex stuff, one thing I do want to get to before we get to the mailbag, we have great mailbag today, but a little positive note before people

start to go on their vacations for the 4th of July. And how many people are doing that. there is some good news on a really, one, good news coming out of Texas, not James Talleyico, and two, it's on an actual controversial point that only the real hardline kind of comprehensive conservatives really grasp. I think I predicted a while ago that this issue would grow and grow and grow in the public mind and people would start to change their minds on it, but it would take some time. But nevertheless, it's happening. We're seeing good moves here. And that's on IVF, on in vitro fertilization and the surrogacy industry. The Texas Republican Party, this happened just about a week or so ago, the Republican Party of Texas voted to add a plank to their platform, citing their desire to, quote, protect fetal life from destructive practices such as IVF and commercial surrogacy. this is despite the fact, as is reported, that 65% of Texas Republican voters support legal and accessible, perhaps even subsidized IVF.

So this is actual political courage and moral clarity coming out of a Republican Party organization, which that is a man bites dog story. You do not usually see courage and clarity coming from the party apparatus. And you are getting that in Texas. And this is another example where I love to say, I hate to say I told you so, because I've been on the IVF drumbeat for a long time now. And when I first started bringing it up on the show, the idea that actually IVF is bad and surrogacy is bad and commercializing and commoditizing human life is really bad. I got a ton of pushback from people. I'm sure there are many people listening now who say, well, I only got my kid through surrogacy. How dare you say there are problems with surrogacy?

only got my grandkid or my niece or my nephew through surrogacy. How dare you say that? Of course, that's not a, that doesn't hold up as a logical argument. I know people who are conceived as a result of rape. And I love those people, but you would never say, I only got my friend as the consequence of rape. Therefore, rape is good and we need legal rape and we need to subsidize rape. No one would ever say that. You would never say that a good end is justifies an immoral means. So the question really then becomes, okay, is IVF and surrogacy morally justified? I know people want it. I understand how difficult infertility can be. But is it really justified to hand over to business people and dubious physicians the origin and destiny of human life to establish the domination

of science and technology over the origin and destiny of human life? And to trade people as you would trade baseball cards or any other commodity. Is that really justified? To say nothing of then opening up the prospect of gay couples, creating children with the intent to deprive them with their natural mother or father or all the rest of it. To say nothing of the fact that the vast majority of people who are conceived through IVF are killed, are intentionally killed. This is great. This is really, really great. The Texas Department of Health and Human Service, I'm sorry, no, the National Department of Health and Human Services, their embryo adoption awareness and services program

is also now replacing the word embryos in several sections with child, children, and children who already exist. Really important. There's nothing radical about that. Embryo is just a term for a stage of development of a child, of a person. You say fetus, fetus is just the Latin word for offspring. No one thinks it's a platypus. No one thinks it's a desk chair. It's a human being.

It's a living human being. So they're just clarifying what it really is. And that's important. It's really important that people are now seeing the reality. And at the time, there were a lot of sort of cynical political people who said, Michael, don't go after surrogacy. Don't go after IVF. You know, it's so unpopular to go after those things. It's going to hurt your ratings. People are going to turn on you. Just don't touch that issue. In much the same way that cynical political operators would say, don't talk about traditional marriage. We lost that battle. Just move on. In much the same way that cynical political operators and say, don't talk about abortion. Oh, come on. Just we lost that battle. Supreme Court ruled twice. Just move on. Public opinion, it's hard to overcome. Just move on. Notice. One, we have just scored a major victory in winning the abortion fight and many PR victories on that. But also at the Supreme Court, people thought it could never happen. Already, public support of so-called same-sex marriage has really declined. I mean, you're seeing a real collapse in public support for that. And a time will come when people view IVF the same way.

And it's not because we're some, you know, silver-tonged devil who can convince people of anything. It's because people don't know what it is. They don't see it for what it is, which is creating children to deprive them of their natural parents in many cases, creating people, most of whom will be killed or frozen indefinitely in virtually every case, and commoditizing human life, which we all know is wrong. That's happening. That's already happening.

And some of the people who were thinking about this most deeply are even getting a little bit ahead of the Demos, the voting public on that. Good stuff. I like seeing that. Okay. Much to get to. My favorite comment yesterday is from Zach Killen, who says, how many Mayflower cigars do I need to get my comment read on the show?

You, I don't know how many you've bought. I suspect a bazillion. You know, we sold out of the Mayflower Dawn of America, the special limited edition for the 250th and the tubes in the special edition box. I told you what's going to happen. but for those of you who did not get it, we're trying to order more. We'll see if we can get it done.

It's hard. You know, we're using on this seven-year-aged, true Connecticut, USA Connecticut tobacco. And it's just, you know, this is a handmade artisanal product. So it's a little tricky to do, but we're working on it. For those of you who did get your boxes, congratulations. Glad you got them. I'm taking a couple of my own.

I only have one box, actually. I didn't even hoard them all. I only got one box of the dawn of America. But I'm taking two of the sticks to smoke for Fourth of July. Okay. Finally, finally, finally, we arrive at my favorite time. of the week when I get to hear from you in the mailbag. Mailbag is sponsored by Pure Talk.

At peer talk.com slash Knowles, Ken at WLES to switch to the only wireless company awarded five stars in every category by Consumer Reports. Take it away. Hey, Michael. What are your thoughts on the SSPX proceeding to consecrate new bishops without papal authority? I know that you love the traditional liturgy, but you're also not a Vatican and Pope Hader, as some Catholics are. As with all your other takes, I know that you're probably going to have a well-thought-out

and moderate response that will probably make both sides unhappy, which of course, makes you correct. Anyways, thanks for everything you do and for the show. Very precisely worded question and totally accurate. So for those who don't know, there's a group called the Society of St. Pius the 10th, which is a priestly fraternity within the Catholic Church. You know, there's all sorts of groups within the Catholic Church. You have different religious orders, the Dominicans or the Jesuits. So I think technically you're still Catholic. You get priestly fraternities like the Society of St. Pius the 10th, which really exists to preserve the traditional Latin Mass and has qualms with the Second Vatican Council

and certainly with its implementation. You have the Precce Fraternity of St. Peter, which was founded as kind of an offshoot of the SSPX, which does not object in principle to the Second Vatican Council, also preserves the traditional Latin Mass, wonderful fraternity in the church. Anyway, this all started because in 1988 was it? In 1980s, Archbishop Marcel Lefev consecrated bishops without the authority of the Vatican,

without the authority of the Pope. So he illicitly consecrated four bishops, and they all immediately incurred automatic excommunications. Now, it meant that they could still, they were still validly saying mass, but it was illicit. It was real. When they consecrate the host, that's the real Eucharist, you know, when they're really saying mass, but it was illicit. It done without the permission of the Vatican. And so there's been this power dynamic going on for decades now. At one point, the excommunications of the bishops were lifted. Then one of them was kind of put back on again because the bishop had some impolitic things to say, among other things. And I won't get into all of the details of it. But they've just decided, okay, they haven't come to terms with Rome,

so they're going to illicitly consecrate the bishops. Again, they incur automatic excommunications. It's very sad. The whole thing is very, very sad. I am opposed to schism. I am opposed to, I don't, you know, the ordination of the bishops, it was even kind of dubious in itself because you have to have an apostolic mandate. You have to have a mandate from like the Pope to consecrate the bishops. And they kind of worked around that in the liturgy, which didn't totally persuade me. But in any case, it's very bad. I've never attended an SSPX chapel. I love the traditional Latin Mass. I tend the traditional Latin Mass. But I do have a great deal. of sympathy for the SSPX. And one of the arguments the SSPX make is the only reason you get these other groups that are kind of defending the traditional Latin Mass is because we're the bad guy. Like they're the good cop, we're the bad cop. And if you get rid of us, then all those other groups are going to go away too.

And, you know, now this leads to a scary conclusion, which is that, you know, in a way, it's these kind of other groups that save the church rather than the church saving all of us, which I obviously don't agree with. However, I guess what I would say, my conclusion from this is not to dunk on the SSPX, where I think most of the people involved have very good intentions. Maybe some are genuinely schismatic, but most have good intentions. I'm not persuaded really by the arguments of the SSPX, but I love what they are trying to do, which is to preserve the traditional Latin Mass. There's so many abuses, liturgical abuses that came about after the Second Vatican Council. And, you know, so I have great sympathy. The whole thing makes me very, very sad. I hope the Vatican has seemed to suggest that they want to, reconcile, maybe, you know, I pray and I hope that that happens. That's what I'm, that's what I'm hoping for here. So yes, I gave you an answer that is almost exactly as you would have predicted. How interesting is that? There's so much more I want to get to. I've got written mailbag questions about love, about romance. We don't have time. I've got to go catch a flight. So I hope everybody

has a beautiful Fourth of July. I'm Michael Nulls. This is the Michael Nulls show. See you Monday.