The Michael Knowles Show - "I Took Mushrooms And Saw God" Michael & The Psychonaut Pt. 2

Episode Date: October 25, 2025

In this powerful clip from Michael &, Joshua Zatkoff recounts the terrifying moment he thought he was dying during a psychedelic trip , facing hell itself, until Jesus appeared and saved him. What he saw next changed his life forever.Watch as Joshua describes his near-death experience, his vision of heaven, and how it led him to abandon psychedelics for good. - - - Today's Sponsor: ExpressVPN - Protect your online privacy today by going to https://ExpressVPN.com/michaelknowlesshow and you can get an extra 4 months FREE - - - Privacy Policy: https://www.dailywire.com/privacy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I feel like my friend just set me up and he was used as a vessel and had no idea. He walks out the door. The second he walked out the door, there was like this transfer, I feel it tangibly come in the room. I said, oh, I know that presence. But I just got set up here. Which you did. I 100 percent. I started to feel like my spirit was wanting to go somewhere. I said, you took mushrooms. I said, all right, you're going to be okay.

I said, you can't die. And the second I said, you can't die, I heard a voice speak in the heart. Who says, I can't take your life whenever I want. And I said, you know what, Josh? I said, maybe because you're on here, heroin or all this other stuff, what if now that you're clean, you haven't done hard drugs in a few years, maybe now you can take mushrooms. It's natural. I'm not talking about acid. I'm talking about mushrooms because they're natural.

And now you can probably connect with Jesus in a better way. You know, this relationship isn't as supernatural as it was in the beginning. Yeah, you're losing. Your tolerance is growing, let's say. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're not feeling that high. Yeah. And so I said, maybe mushrooms will do the trick.

And not only for that, but also maybe I can get some answers for other people because I'm encountering this question all the time about people doing psychedelics and seeing it be a thing. I said, you know, God, my heart is to like, I put my heart before God of like, look, like, this is where I'm at. I said, I kind of feel like doing it. And, you know, I said, worst case scenario, I find out it's not good. And, you know, I don't do it anymore. Well, the thing about it is that, you know, and I say this as humble as possible.

Like, when I say I was in it, I mean, like, I really was sold out. I was living right. I wasn't, like, a Christian that was dabbling in sin and the world and going to church. I mean, I literally was, my life was dedicated to this. Like, that's all I thought about. It was all I did. And, you know, like, I didn't have a life. That was my life.

And so, like, and so it wasn't like, oh, I was already slipping away or something. And so basically months pass. And so one night I'd go to my friend's house and we're going to make music. And while he's loading up the beat and everything, and this was a friend of mine that it was like the one of like two friends that I had that, the old friends that I didn't completely cut off. But it wasn't, you know, it was more just like I would make music with them. I still loved them. So it's like I'd keep my distance but show up. And so anyways, he dumps out this backpack of chocolate mushrooms all.

all over the, right over the bed, right in front of me. And he basically was like, here, you know what I mean? Here, try one. You know what I mean? And now the thoughts of what was I was thinking in the last few months pop up. And so I said, you know what, Josh? I said, I'm tired of it.

Internally, I'm like, you know what? I'm tired of being fear with this. I just want to face this. I don't like the fear. There's this fear of I shouldn't do this. And I didn't like that, you know? Like I said, you know, I don't like fear. I'm going to confront this.

I'm going to take it. I said, it's now or never. I'm not going to sit here and think about it. I was tired of processing it in my mind. I just wanted to try it. And I said, you know. People get so sick of the anxiety and the hemming and hawing and the moral conscience telling you no, no, no,

that you think, well, here's one way I can shut up that moral conscience. I'm just going to do it. And then I won't have that anxiety of anticipation anymore. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's probably what it was. It was like, you know what, if you're not to do it tonight, it's just going to bother you. So I did it.

And I ate, it was an eighth of mushrooms. And just for context, like, that was the normal dose that I would take. That was like a normal, like, go-to dose. It's definitely on the higher end as far as, like, when you're looking at microdosing and stuff, it's a lot lower than that. But I had taken much larger doses, too. I had taken, you know, double. Of everything.

Yeah, yeah. And so to me, it was like this is kind of mild, right? That's how I'm thinking. And so I take it and it starts off good. The first 20 minutes, I'm just getting in my vibe and, you know, and just listen to me. music and it's all good vibes and good thoughts and I'm happy and this gonna be good. And then at one point my friend says, hey, these guys want to go to the bar?

Do you want to come? I said, no. I said, what is eight? I don't want to go to the bar. And so he said, well, I'm going to go. You can stay here if you want. Is that cool? I said, all right, I guess.

I'm stuck here now, you know, kind of thing. So he leaves. And this stuff, it takes like probably 30 minutes to kick in. So in the meantime, you start kind of feeling your stomach will start to turn. There's like this pre almost anxiety kind of thing. Like you feel it kind of starting to creep up on you. And so I already had to feel that. So I said, oh, we're about to go into this.

And so my friend, he walks out the door. The second he walked out the door, it was like that feeling of sleep paralysis, the feeling of like demons and evil walks in the room. It was like this transfer. He left and it was, the first thing I noticed was if I feel like I just got set up unknowingly. I feel like my friend just set me up and he was used as a vessel. and had no idea, completely not in his mind knowing what he was doing, but I just got set up here. Which you did.

100%. And that was so clear. You know what I mean? I was like, wow, I just got set up. And so he walks out and Eve just walks in. Mind you, I have had demonic encounters as a Christian at this point just based off doing God's work and having demons come and attack me and stuff. I had cast out demons and all that kind of stuff. So I know this presence. I'm still like 100% sober-minded.

like I'm 100% in my rational mind. I feel it tangibly come in the room. I said, oh, I know that presence. And so I said, oh, no, this isn't good. And so, but I'm like, all right, I know how mushrooms work. I'm going to stay positive. Keep my mind right. This, you know, if I feed into this or it's going to get worse,

I start ignoring it. I said, I'm good. And I go into the bathroom. And I'm talking, I'm cheering. I'm giving myself a pep talk in the mirror. And I said, I said, Josh, I said, you took mushrooms. I said, all right, you're going to be okay. hey, I said, you can't die.

And the second I said, you can't die, I heard a voice speak in my heart, the same way I always have heard God speak to me. Cross-check everything. Who says, who says I can't take your life whenever I want? Who says, like, and it wasn't in a way of, like, anger. It was a checking of my pride. Like, who says I just can't stop your heart whenever I want?

Like, what do you mean you can't die? I could just do it now, right? Like, for no reason. You could just drop, right? So it was like, oh, I could die. You know, like, this could be it. And so then I started being like, oh, wow, this isn't good. I started feeling like, all right, I need to start repenting.

So I started praying. And it was like as soon as I started to pray and started to ask God to help me, it just, I felt like I just was getting just like a dark cloud was just coming around me. I could tangibly feel it. I could feel like closing in on me. And I'm like, but I'm still in this like state of like, it's going to be okay. You're good. And I'm like, you know what, Jesus, forgive me?

You know how we think like, oh, I messed up. Oh, Lord, forgive me, and we're good. Yeah, yeah. So it's like forgiveness doesn't equate to consequence. So it's like the consequences were still there. And then I realized, oh, no, I opened this door. I know better. I'm not a baby.

I'm a young child and God. I knew better. And so now it's all hitting me like, oh, what did you do? Like this is, and you're going to be stuck in this place. Because now I know I already have my spiritual eyes open, sober, it in the natural. So now that I'm spiritually awake and not dead in sin, now when I actually open that veil, it's not going to be clear. I'm going to know what it is now. And so I started praying and I'm just feeling like death encompassed me. And that's what talks about in Psalm 18.

Death encompassed me, you know. And that's what it feels like. And I'm, I call my wife and I said, she was out with friends at dinner. I said, you need to come get me. She had no idea what I was doing. I didn't even, I wasn't planning this, right? I can't imagine she would have approved. Yeah, no, she doesn't know. And it's starting to get worse as before, like, leading up to when she got there, it started to feel like something was pulling, like, started to feel like my spirit was wanting to go somewhere.

I can't explain it. It's like it felt like the light was flickering within, like, it was like someone was pooling me somewhere. And so it was like, by the time she gets there, I'm in the, I'm not able to really function at this point. I couldn't breathe well. And so she's trying to talk. Like, she thinks this is just normal Josh coming in the car. Like, hey, why would anyone drive? And I said, I can't talk about it. I said, just pray. I said, just pray for me. I didn't even have time to explain to her what was going on. By this point, I was, I couldn't breathe. It was, and she's even like,

she's like, what's wrong? Like, because I'm like, I'm gasping for breath. And I'm feeling my body, like, go get, go in and out. It's like, I'm here talking to you. And the next thing you know, it's like, boom, snapped into like a dream. room. It's like in and out, like in and out of consciousness. But it was to be a black void. So we're going through this whole car ride and every now and then I'll try to like tell her like just, I can't talk right now. I'm like over like 30 minutes I gave her the story like, oh, I took mushrooms. All right. You know. And so I get home. By the time I get home, it was just full, like it was just fully on. I run into my room. I lay on the floor. And at this point I'm just getting pulled. Like I just, I'm feeling my soul just get pulled out of my body.

And so I'm in this dark like void. And next thing I know, there starts to be like sight coming to it, because it's just abyss of blackness. And so I'm sitting there and all of a sudden I realize I'm in this giant hand. So I'm in this hand and then I see demons right in front of me. And it's all the same demons I've seen in that one overdose. It's like, I don't know if they were the exact same ones, but they looked the same. It was the same breed.

Same breed, yeah. Except this time, there was like taller ones. Like it was like they were the ones in charge. Like they were higher ranking ones. So I'm in this hand and now I'm in another reality. And now fears like what is going on. Where am I? What is the first thing that hits you is you're helpless.

That's I think the first thing that really got me, even before this happened, like up to this point, it's knowing like, who are you gonna call? Like what are you gonna do? What are you, you know? It's not like when you're a kid, you call your mom to help you. And, you know, like, there's nothing you can do. The hospital can't help you.

This is a, you know what I mean? Like, this is, there's nothing you can do right now. So you're just helpless. Yep. So I'm in this, you know, I'm in this hand. And I'm seeing these demons. And so the one stands up. And then I'm looking at, like, my attention.

Once that one stands up, like, my attention diverts. And now it was like this light tower. It was like this thing, if it was just tilted up and just lights just with no walls, but you could see just a big light beam tower kind of thing with different colors. And I knew that was like the kingdom of heaven. And then I knew that I was in outer darkness of some sort. I was in this in-between place. And so now this demon's stepping forward, and he's presenting a case to this tower.

And he said, we're tired of this kid. He keeps coming into our kingdom, taking people out, and then he came back and ate off our table. And it hit me right then and there. You're an evangelist. You're winning souls for Jesus all the time. You really are coming into, you know, and I would go into, you know, wherever, inner cities, wherever, any neighborhood, and just preach Jesus, talk about Jesus, get people safe, you know what I mean? But you could bring a thousand people into the church and you could wind up in the bad place.

Uh-huh, 100%. What a phrase, he keeps taking souls out of here, you know, helping souls out of here, but then he comes and eats from our table. Peter Craft, the theologian philosopher, he says that abortion is the demonic inversion of the Eucharist. The Eucharist, the priest holds up the consecrated host and says, recites the word of our Lord, says, this is my body, which will be given up for you. And what abortion does is uses the same words to a diabolically opposite end, which is, this is my body, this is my body. I won't save, I'll kill for my body.

Wow. And even this idea of, the Eucharist is manna from heaven. That's what you're seeing, the figure of the Eucharist in the manor that comes down and saves the Israelites, gives them bread to eat. And we now have this in the Holy Communion. And as you said earlier, this idea that, no, man, you know, what if the mushrooms are the act? That's kind of like the manna. But the demons are telling you in this trip, they're saying, that's our food from our table that he's eating. 100%.

And that was, I mean, like, that was the crux of the whole thing for me. Because at that point, the thing about the spirit realm is you don't need a lot of work. to get a lot of revelation. And nothing is spoken. This is all telepathically, it's just known. In the spirit, nothing is hidden from the light, right? So in the spirit, everything is just, it's out on the open. You don't have money to hide behind.

You don't have a facade. You don't have, everything that you try to ignore is there. Whether you like it or not, and it's seen. And so it was that moment of being naked before everything. Of me being a hypocrite in that moment, me backsliding me, whatever I was, everything was there. Oops. You know?

Oops. And now it was a matter of I'm in this hand that I can't just get out of this. All right, see you like later, guys, you know. It was, this is serious. This was, I was in the courts of heaven. I mean, it was literally, they were presenting a case against me to God. And so I'm sitting there. Now I'm freaking out in the sense that I already was feeling my body what was going on.

it felt like everything was shriveling up. You know, it's like you could feel your organs drying up. Fear becomes a jacket, like a living thing that comes around you. Just despair. I mean, every negative, like, emotion feeling you could think of is there and then it's heightened. And I felt like a slug if you pour salt on it. I felt my life literally just getting pulled out of me, shriveling up. And while I'm in this hand, I feel my breath just getting pulled out of me.

I mean, and mind you, in real time, you feel like you're connected to your physical body. So I'm still like 5, 10% aware of what's happening in my body. And every, you know, 10, 15, my wife's freaking out, you know, and during this time, she's freaking out. She doesn't know what to do. She thinks, should I call hospitals? What should I do? But I know what's going on. So I'm telling her, just pray for me.

Just keep praying. Like that, I was like, just pray. And then I'd get pulled back into it and I'd be in this reality. Right. And so... Because you're not in physical danger of death any more than any of us is at any given moment. If you were on heroin or something, you would have been in physical danger of death. But as you said consciously, you said, these are mushrooms. Mushrooms at this dose, they're not going to kill you.

God tells you, well, I can stop your heart whenever I want. But that's different. It's not the mushroom. So, you know, if your wife had said, hey, you're high on heroin or something, and you said, well, don't call the doctors. She probably would have just called the doctors anyway. Right, right. But what you're saying is, no, my danger right now, though I feel it physically,

the danger that I'm in right now is a spiritual danger. For sure. And I mean, to be honest, to this day, I don't know if it was just spiritually that I would have died. Like, it felt physical. That's the thing. Physically, my body was not functioning. Like, it felt physical.

And the reason I say that is because, people get this idea that like, like I said, like, oh, you can't die from this, you can die from that. There's, you know, this spiritual realm is what is really deciding the physical realm. So it's like, that was a major infraction. Go to expressvPN.com slash Michael, MISH, AEL, letter Y, letter T. It is ironic when you think about it. You got millions of military members have fought for our freedom. And yet, we're losing more privacy every single day.

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is just like the stuff that's in the spiritual realm is the form. It's the subsist, like our soul is the substantial form of our body. Right. And so people, try to really neatly separate these two things, but that's not really how it works. You are your soul, you are your body. Those things are together inseparably, for now, in this world. And so to try to say, well, no, that's just happening to my spirit. It has no effect on my body. Or this just happening to my body. What are you talking about? You're both. So that's like one of the greatest mysteries I'm getting into right now, but that's, I mean, that's the mystery of it all, or not even really the mystery, that's the truth behind it,

is that that's like the spirit world is happening right now while we're sitting here talking. So that's what, the first thing it showed me was, my body's literally laying there. My soul is literally in the spirit realm. So this is happening right now. So when you see people physically going through something, you don't know what is happening in the spiritually a lot of times, right?

So anyways, this is happening. So I'm feeling this whole thing going on in my body. I'm literally losing breath. I'm crying out for God, mercy, but I'm thinking at this point, like, God heard me by now. Like, either he forgives me or he doesn't. So I'm kind of like, I started to give up because it was exhausting me. It was physically, like, it was giving me, like, it was taking all my strength to speak

to say, God have mercy, forgive me. I just felt the longer I was in this hand, the more life was getting pulled out of me. And at one point I started to give up. I said, you know what? Jesus, forgive me. I made a big mistake. I'm a sinner. I believe in you for my salvation.

I said, I'm letting go. Like, I'm going to give up. I'm done fighting this thing right now. And so I started to relax. And I started to, but I'm still going through turmoil. But I started to think about, my wife was pregnant at the time. I have another kid. I started to think about that.

And I said, no, I can't. I said, God. I said, you know what? It's not about me. I said, my kid needs me. And so that hit me. That was the next thing that happened was, oh, these people need me. So I said, God, save me for them, you know.

And so at that moment, I started to feel almost a slight pressure release. And then I started to notice that at the top of that tower, like, I couldn't look at it. I knew, you know, it's the glory of God was up there. I couldn't go look at it. I knew it was there. But I could see the rest of the tower. And I could see that the source of that tower was at the top of it, that was giving life to the rest of it.

all of a sudden, breath started coming. Like, I could see, like, a little, like, breath would hit me, and then I'd feel it hit me. And then in that moment, I said, every breath that I get is he's literally giving it to me. He's aware that he's giving it to me, consciously, giving it to me. And it was like I would get the breath, and I would make it last because it was like,

there was space in between. It wasn't like I could just, like, how we could breathe now, just as freely as we want, I couldn't breathe freely. I was breathing according to, like, him. And it's a beautiful, metaphor, and of course as we're speaking here, there's really no such thing as a metaphor or literal. What we're saying is these two things intersect physical and the metaphysical, and that you say you couldn't breathe and then God gives you that breath. And this is the image of, that's, that is what

the Holy Spirit is, right? I mean, the bond of love between the father and the son and this procession of breath. which says yeah Psalm 33 that's what it literally says it says he spoke the everything into existence and then it says his breath made man breathe laying and gave the being the hosts i'm now witnessing this even received the holy spirit christ says right breathe something yeah yeah yeah yeah and that's so now i'm sitting with that but it's like i start to get hope because i didn't have hope at that point like i was just kind of just i didn't know what to think it was just i was just in pain and in and confusion, but also like just discomfort.

So now I start to feel like maybe there's hope now. And so now the breath starts coming more fluidly, and I'm starting to like kind of ease up. And then all of a sudden it was like this cloud of witnesses kind of came around, right? And the Bible talks about that. So these saints start coming out. And they, I knew they were probably,

praying for me. I just started to feel energy, love come from them. And as they began to pray for me, I started to feel more alive. And then all of a sudden, it was like a shadow of a cross came out, out the top of the tower. It was like a cross came out. And it was like the source of the top, his attention turned to it. And it was this, because like I said, everything's telepathically and like it's all connected. You know what everything is kind of feeling and thinking in a sense. So it's like I could feel God's attention turn to the cross and remember. And then all of a sudden I look over and out of the tower, Jesus starts walking out. I see this man come walking towards me out into the center of this abyss.

He puts his arm around me. He looks at everything. All the demons, he looks, he puts his arm around me. He said, this one's mine. He belongs to me. And as soon as he touched me, I went back to my body and began going through deliverance. Because Jesus can't touch you. And so everything that I had just allowed into my life, I literally was puking.

Like I never had a painful vomit like that. I was puking my guts out, filling up garbage bags, like shopping bags. Which is common. I mean, people, maybe not as intensely as what you're describing, but people always talk about this really spiritually. experience of ayahuasca, they all vomit a bunch. You think, that doesn't seem so beautiful. And even the beauty of that image, though,

where Christ walks out and touches you and you're back in the body, which is it's an incarnational faith. The pivot of history is the incarnation, the second person of the Trinity, son of God, into flesh, and he was incarnate of the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, and becomes man. The fact that God, the son, becomes man is this height, this perfection of the unity of physical and metaphysical.

You think, no, the body, the body actually does matter. We actually are these things. And you say this in the sacraments that he gives us. So this is, this bread is my body. How do you make sense of it? It only makes sense in an incarnational faith. So the second he touches you. Oh, yeah, there's the body again.

Oh, right. Oh, there I am. That's, you gave me a piece of it. Because the funny thing about this story is there's so, so much that I'm still peace. Probably the rest of my life I'll be piecing together parts of it. And so I go through deliverance. I collapse. I puke my guts out.

I think it's over because I collapse. I feel kind of that release of like it's going to be okay. And I collapse. But now when I collapse on the floor, I go back. But this time I'm in that tower. And when I'm in the tower, now I'm in the light. I know the darkness is behind me. I'm looking at Jesus face to face, and it's like, you don't see everything else.

It's like everything else fades away, like a cinematic, you know, in your eye from him. All I could see was his eyes, and his eyes were like almost like the earth. Like, they were multiple colors. It wasn't just like, oh, they're blue or brown. It was like there were shades of green, there were shades of blue. It was just like they magnetically, like, pull you into him. And then it also simultaneously pulls itself into you. It's like this, like this.

So everything's just fading away. And it's just, he's staring at my eyes. He smiles at me. And so he's smiling at me as if he's happy to see me. I'm thinking about what just happened. But he's looking at me as if, like, he was happy to see me. And he said, maybe we shouldn't do that again. And he smiled at me.

Like, I love you. And so in that moment, it's like, what do you do with that? in the moment I'm receiving that, but I'm still stuck in what happened in the past. But I'm also now, scripture is flooding my mind. I'm thinking about Psalm 73, for whom do I have in heaven but besides you? Who do I decide on earth? Like literally Jesus is all we have in heaven that is because of him. It's him alone.

Like we have nothing else on our side. There's nothing else. Or like, he's it. And so that's hitting me like, oh, you're the one that came for me. No one else. There was no one else that could have came for me. It was you. The saints are praying for you.

Right. But he comes for you. Yeah, but it's through him. So it was like, yeah, so that's all hitting me. And so he like starts like walking with me. But I started to notice because I'm looking around and it wasn't like I was seeing everything as clear as I'm seeing this room. It was almost like there was a sheet over it. So everything was kind of veiled, but I could see it. So I could make out, oh, this is this kind of color.

Oh, there's a being there. So I'm seeing light beings kind of. And I'm seeing that there's stuff around, there's life around. But I'm sensing that things, like, that these, like, angels or these saints, whatever they were, were kind of disappointed in me. Not mad at me, but it was kind of just like, you knew better, Josh, like kind of thing. Like, you know, and not, it wasn't a shaming way. It was just like.

It's just what it is. It just is what it was. It was just kind of like, that's... Kayak gets my flight, hotel, and rental car right. So I can tune out travel advice that's just plain. wrong. Bro, Skycoin, way better than points. Never fly during a Scorpio full moon. Just tell the manager you'll sue. Instant room upgrade. Stop taking bad travel advice. Start comparing hundreds of sites with kayak and get your trip

right. Kayak, got that right. Wild, I guess it shouldn't be wild that you describe it that way, because this is the scene in Dante's Divine Comedy, in Paradise. Something I'm always struck by I love the poem. And when Dante gets up to heaven, he has wonderful conversations with these people, one of his ancestors, saints, and the object of his love, well, the ultimate object of his love is God,

but he is sort of channeling it through this beloved Beatrice. And Beatrice sends Virgil down on this mission to go pull Dante out of his midlife crisis and the wayward way and pull him down through the pits of hell up through purgatory up into heaven. But she's not nice to him. The first thing she says to him when she sees him at the end of purgatory going into heaven, she says, he's crying because Virgil goes away. And his Virgil's a pagan, can't go to heaven. And she says, stop crying. Don't piongri an

encore. Don't peonjee to encore. Cut it out. We've got to go. And then she goes up, and she's fairly steely-faced in heaven. And she's looking at God. And he can see in the reflection of her eyes. That's how he's looking at her eyes and he's seeing God reflected there. But she's not saying, oh, hey, buddy, good to see you. Oh, add a boy. She's, like, no, reality is what reality is. And I'm not going to pray for you, but I'm not going to sugarcoat it for you. And that's what I think. We get sometimes this idea that like angels in heaven and Jesus, it's like this teddy bear like, oh, you know, like, and it's like, they're serious. Jesus was about his father's business. This is like a.

serious, God's about his will being done. So it's like, this isn't a game, you know? It's like, why are we referred to as armies and sports players and, you know, like, and soldiers? Church militant. Right. And so that was very clear to me. And so with that, I couldn't accept it. Like, shame just hit me all of a sudden, and I took off.

Like, it's like, I took off. Where I was at, there was levels to it. There was different, like, dimensions of glory. Where he brought me was a higher one. I knew there was one or two above me. and I knew there was at least three or four under me. So when I looked down, I said, I'm going to the lowest part of heaven I can find. As low as I can to, I want to stay here.

Good strategy. Good advice and good strategy. Yeah, so I took off. I mean, like, you think it and you just travel. You go. You're there. So next thing, I'm at the ground, and I'm on my knees and I'm just worshiping. I didn't want to look at anything.

I said, God don't make me speak ever again. I'm not worthy to speak. I said, all I want to do is worship. I said, just let me worship. And so that was like the next thing that, that 100% hit me of, you're giving me this breath. The only thing that I should do with it is give it back to you in a way that pleases you.

So it's like, I don't really want to just let me worship. That's the only heart response to what's going on right now and to where on this realizing where I'm at, I shouldn't be here. But then Jesus came down and he comforted me. It was like this moment of let it go. Like just, you're here, embrace it. So I started to send back with him.

And then it was like I switched. I wasn't with him anymore. I was in this, almost this bubble of like, just like colors was like flying by me. And it was like downloads were just flooding through me. I felt like I was hooked up to a machine. You see people like hooked up through those machines. They're like, that's what I felt like.

I felt like I was hooked up to this machine. And every question I had was just flooding through me. To the point where I said, stop, you're going to kill me. It was like God's love and his wrath, his grace, and everything was all mixed in one almost. It was like this, you're being too good to me. I don't deserve it. It was like all, and everything I want to know is coming to me. Everything I could ever think about in my life and wanting to understand is coming to me.

I'm getting all that. It's just flooding me all simultaneously. In a matter of minutes, it's like, download, download, down, everything made sense. And I literally was crying out to stop. I said, stop, show me this. Stop showing me this. It's going to kill me. It's going to kill me.

It's going to kill me. And then the next thing I know, I just, I just started, it started like lightning up and then I'm back in my body. And it was just like, it's over. Like, but I didn't really want it to be, you know, like over now, because now I'm like, it was like, all right. Well, you see the same experience that you're describing when God's face passes by in Genesis, say,

don't look directly. You can't look. You will die. If you look directly at the face of God, you can look at the back of his head, but the sense that you'll be overwhelmed because you're finite. Yeah.

And so you can't comprehend God. It is not, that's not going to work. Yeah. If he were totally comprehensible by you, he wouldn't be God, and you wouldn't be you. Right. No, I mean, it reminded me of like when Paul said, there's things I've seen I can't tell you.

Yeah. It's like... And I see through a veil half darkly. Yeah. Yeah. As you're describing this veil, right? It was too much for my natural body contained. And you know what? You reminded me of something when you're talking about Dante Zerferno.

And I haven't talked about this really yet, but... What was... Because I was baptized Russian Orthodox, which is, I think, very similar to Catholic faith. And somebody asked me, they're like, have you heard of the toll houses? And when I started looking at the toll houses, I was like, I really feel like that's what I experienced. You know, and I, so I didn't get this until after, but it's similar to like purgatory. And that's what, so I've been looking at the toll houses. You won't get out until you pay the very last farthing, that sort of thing?

That's kind of how it felt. I mean, I don't know. I just, when I read about what toll houses are, I'm like, that's definitely what it seemed like I was going through. That's definitely what it felt like, because there was. was a period of hell. It was a form of hell, not the fullness of it. Even the description that you have of the trial, that's around, we're all in trials.

That's what, Jesus is led by the spirit into the desert to be tested into a trial. Leave me not into a trial, leave you not to temptation, deliver me from evil. So you come to, your wife is there. Then what? Has the story end? I guess the story's still going on.

And she's freaked out, like, basically, like, she doesn't really know what to think. And, you know, my wife didn't grow up in that world. So she doesn't see this. She doesn't, you know, she's just taking my word for her to just, like, calm down, relax, it's gonna be okay, pray, whatever. Like, so she's just kind of like, oh, I'm glad it's over. I mean, what do you really say after that?

You know, it's not like there was a significant, like, reaction, she was just freaked out. And she's like, that was scared. You know, until the day, like, when this thing comes up, She's like, yeah, that was scary. You know, and she'll say that. And then I laid in bed, and I was scared to move. You know, for the rest of the night, I stayed awake saying, hallelujah, hallelujah.

You know, and for the next three days, I didn't want to talk. I was scared to talk. I mean, that's what the fear of God will do. I mean, the fear of God got so deeply drilled into me and not. I'm scared of God. The acknowledgement of His holiness. Wonder and awe, right? Servile fear is different than holy fear.

Exactly. Exactly. And so that was the main takeaway from it. Like, God really is that holy. And that's so, like, that ties into this whole, you're your own God, you're your own divine. It's like... That's what it... All my friends who've gotten sucked into this stuff,

whether we're talking about chemical or just spiritual or usually it's some kind of combination of the two. And it always seems to come down to, you're your own God and you can do whatever you want. You've got the power and you, you, you, you, you're like, if it's about you, you, you, you're probably not on the right path, man. Yeah, I agree. I think that, and that's the, I think, the big, like, difference to me is that God wants to

create with us, and Jesus is the center of everything. The whole, these whole other movements, they take everything that God, that God intended for us to have, and not everything, but some things, and they just kicked Jesus out of it. So, you know, and it reminds me of that parable where the guys said, I'm going to send my helper to the vineyard to get my fruit. They beat him, beat him up, beat him up, I'll send my son. They said, oh, we'll kill him so we can inherit what belongs to him. That's literally what Satan has done.

He's perverted everything that God has, took it for himself, and then made people afraid of certain things that God had created for people. people and he kicked Jesus out of it. So it's like, you know, everything's gotten perverted. It loves the image of the cross is the axel on which the world turns, on which the universe turns. You know, that's just, that's where it all turns around. And you can deny that, but if you deny that, you're going to find yourself increasingly incoherent. And you can, you can try to make a god of yourself. That's the primal temptation, the Garden of Eden, as you shall be as gods.

But you're not going to end up as a god. you're going to end up destroyed, physically and spiritually. Not loving your AT&T or T Mobile Bill. Yeah, we've been hearing that a lot. Good news. Bring your AT&T or T Mobile Bill to Verizon and we'll give you a better deal. So get away from that unfortunate phone bill and get to Verizon. Run, ride, canoe.

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