The Michael Knowles Show - "I Would Hit Myself In The Face With A Hammer" Michael & The Looksmaxxer | Clavicular

Episode Date: December 27, 2025

"I Would Hit Myself In The Face With A Hammer" Michael & The Looksmaxxer | Clavicular - - - Today's Sponsor: Balance of Nature - https://balanceofnature.com and get 50% off the Whole Health System FOR LIFE. - - - DailyWire+: 🎄✨ DAILY WIRE CHRISTMAS SALE IS HERE! ✨🎄 🎁 https://www.dailywire.com/subscribe ⭐️ 40% Off DailyWire+ New Annual Memberships ⭐️ 50% Off DailyWire+ Annual Upgrade Memberships ⭐️ 50% Off DailyWire+ Annual Gift Memberships - - - Privacy Policy: https://www.dailywire.com/privacy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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when you find the one, you've got a real shot at getting it. Get started at redfin.com. Own the dream. Looksmaxing is the furthest extent that you could take self-improvement. This principle follows Wolf's law that a bone is going to grow back stronger. You would hit yourself in the head with a hem. Yeah, bone smash is legit. But there are different ways you can improve yourself.

Right. but what's going to actually get you further in life? What is looking better for? I'm someone who just wants to mug, essentially. I'm getting a double jaw surgery and a couple of weeks from now, so that's probably the furthest it goes. You do meth.

Maybe I traded like some neurotoxicity for temporary leanness to ascend really quickly. Hmm. On Michael And I've had the privilege of sitting down with people from a wide variety of backgrounds. priests, exorcists, scientists, refugees. Never before, though, have I sat down with a looks-maxed meth-head live stream cell.

And I have that distinct privilege today with my new friend, Clavicular. How's it going? Mr. Ickular, it's wonderful to have you on the show. Thank you so much for having me much. There is so much I want to get into with you. Okay. Even all those parts of your title.

But I want to start with the most obvious, the most apparent to most people, which is that, You're a good looking guy. I don't think that makes me gay to say you're a good looking guy. You have intentionally become a good looking guy. You have looks maxed. Right. What is looks maxing?

Looks maxing is the furthest extent that you could take self-improvement, right? So we've seen a lot of, you know, different forms of that over the years. Mostly with bodybuilding, I would say was the main one for a while for men from about 2010 up until 2020. And then it's sort of shifted into looks maxing that kind of crept into the space from different niche, you know, forums, especially those of PSL, which was just three. Pumpkin spice latte, obviously. No, just three looks maxing forums. So that influence kind of crept in. And it's very obvious that, you know, the face is more important than the physique. So people were doing the self-improvement and it wasn't really getting them the results that they needed. So that's why the further step needed to be taken to. to sort of go about improving upon your entire life. So, there are all these bodybuilding forums, and you say, well, what about this phrase, the butter face?

You know, but you hear about the butt. You never hear about butter body. So you draw the conclusion from that that, hey, you guys are all working out to build up your bodies, but the face is more important to physical attractiveness. Absolutely. So that's what distinguishes just working out and hitting the gym and bodybuilding from looks maxing.

It's just adding an extra layer, right? I'm someone who hugely advocates for still going to the gym, even though I might have been taking a little bit of time off recently. I've taken about a decade or so well. Yeah, so no worries. We're on the same page there. But I'm just adding that extra layer, that extra piece of key nuance that I feel like has been out of the equation for the longest time, especially in a lot of like the Manofsphere discussion, looks hasn't really been, you know, mentioned.

And it just seems kind of silly to me. Can I ask how old you are? 19. You're 19. Correct. So you're very young. Yep. And you're talking about this development of the looks-maxing self-improvement world.

When did you get into this? When I was 14 years old, you know, I was someone who was on these bodybuilding forums. I started taking exogenous hormones, testosterone, when I was 14. And then it became more of a shift from bodybuilding-oriented stuff like we talked about before. say this happened to a lot of people into more lux maxing stuff over the years. You're 14, you're going through puberty. You're getting a nice injection of testosterone in the old-fashioned way. Why did you do that? For facial masculinization, just optimizing all of my growth pathways so that I could have like a super physiological puberty, right? So, you know, you could do a lot with pharmaceutical intervention. So taking those steps at an early age is kind of,

like it's a now or never mentality, right? So once your growth plates close, there's nothing you could do. What's so fascinating about that answer is that's like the right-wing version of the transgender argument. The pro-trans people are always saying, I got to take the cross-sex hormones when I'm 13 or 14, because if I wait until I'm 18 or 20, it'll be all closed off and I'll never look like the opposite sex. And what you're saying is, well, I had to take all these exogenous hormones when I was 14 so that I could look like the most gigacad version of my own sex. Right. Yeah, no, of course. So it's the exact opposite. And you'll hear a lot of criticism for like the stuff that I talk about from the left, which is quite ironic. So I'm glad you brought

that up. So what does it mean? So you start taking testosterone. Right. Okay, before we get into what your parents said about this, what your doctors said or didn't say about this, you're a 14-year-old kid. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 14-year-olds go through a lot of problems. A lot of self-image issues, girls and boys. Why did you do this when most 14-year-olds don't? Well, so I'm a bit of an autist, right? So I was just like, there's this thing that could get me to my desired physique quicker.

Like, why wouldn't I do that? It wasn't like your typical 14-year-old who goes on Instagram and sees, like, you know, a picture of David Laid or, like, Chris Baumstead. And it's like, oh, like, I want to look like that guy. I'm just like, well, objectively, this is going to get me there quicker. So why would I not, you know? Are there? It was kind of the mentality. Are there downsides there?

Are there side effects? Of course. Yeah, no. So there's a lot that can go wrong if you're not very careful with, you know, using anabolic steroids, obviously. So I was someone who did my due diligence and made sure things didn't go horribly wrong. There's certainly things I could have went about better. And I wish I had a more comprehensive understanding.

before I, you know, decided to go this route, but, you know, we're here now. And for those reasons with how complex it is, I don't openly advocate for anyone to do this, right? I think a lot more people are going to wind up in themselves over, or excuse me, screwing themselves over if they're to go this route rather than, you know, if they were to decide, you know, to stay natural. What do you regret? You say there's some things I wish I'd done differently, would have turned out differently? Just not taking certain pharmaceuticals. I wish I would have, you know, had a little bit more IGF-1 in the protocols, just for example. What's the effect of that, though? IGF-1 is, you know, an important hormone for development. So just if I were to take that,

that would be a little bit better, but I couldn't afford it at the time. So I would have just gone about that a little different. But there was nothing where you'd say, I really messed this part of my body. You just say, I wish I'd gone further. Right, yeah. So you start taking these steroids. Are you still taking them? Yes. I'm just on TRT. What's TRT? Testosterone replacing therapy. Yes, yeah, okay. You hear about like 50-year-old guys doing that. Yeah, well, it seems a little ridiculous that to optimize my testosterone levels to where they realistically should be, as a male, I have to wait until I'm like 30 years old is like the common cope that you hear on the internet. And testosterone levels have been declining rapidly across generations.

So I'm kind of just placing myself where we, you know, evolutionarily should be. Okay, so looks maxing then is when you shoot up a bunch of pharmaceuticals. No, that's not look. That's, you know, my iteration of looks maxing is just kind of doing whatever it takes, like the rich piano mentality. That's not really what I advocate for because, again, with all these complexities, you could wind up being yourself over. And...

How so? Well, you know, take testosterone, for example. You could deal with hair loss issues. You could deal with acne. You could deal with gynecumastia. You have to really carefully manage a ton of different hormones and a ton of different interactions inside your body. You have to forgive my ignorance.

I know nothing about this. What is gynecomastia? That is, you know, the glandular tissue and your nipples growing. Yeah. So I guess I think the term I've heard a lot of people use is... Yeah, no, I don't want that. Yeah, so you don't want that. That's what I mean.

And, you know, if people who are just go around blasting tests without a comprehensive understanding of this stuff, that's what would happen. You know, but there are mechanisms that you could leverage to make sure this doesn't occur, but once again, most people won't have the foresight to go about it the right way. So when you learn all this stuff online and you're on all these forums and you say, okay, this is how I'm going to look really good. and you start getting the testosterone. Did your parents ever object to that?

Yeah, they would take it away all the time. Where did you get it? Just on the Internet. So, yeah, there was like a time where I went like hypogynatal for a month or two just because they took my testosterone sash, but I made sure that never happened. Hypergonadal? A hypogynatal? Like, I didn't have any testosterone reduction, just for like a month or two.

And that was probably the worst two months of my life. Yeah. You know, having zero male sex hormone. You have no libido, no sex drive. So, yeah, just making sure to avoid that is very important. So your parents, you get into this on the internet, you order the drugs on the internet, you start taking the drugs. Your parents finally find out about this and they say, hey, stop doing that. What did they tell you? Well, they would just take it away, say no more steroids, like take away the Xbox classic stuff. But I'm just someone who, you know, is willing to do whatever needs to be done, so I would just reorder it to P.O. Box instead, like, you know, a lot of people will come after my parents for the things that I did, but realistically, no one was stopping me.

I was committed to my goal, and I wasn't gonna let anyone get away. So why was that your goal? Because I see the point on self-improvement, and ambitious young men want to improve themselves. But there are different ways you can improve yourself. There's the physical way, there's spiritual, improvement, there's mental improvement, there's, I don't know, all sorts of improvement.

Right, but what's going to actually get you further in life? What's going to get you opportunities in the workplace? What's going to get you, you know, dates, you know, with prettier women? It's going to be looks, a hundred times over. And there's really no denying that with, like, you know, a lot of the recent, you know, self-report studies we've seen, like, you know, research from the dating apps that's been released. So I would say it looks is just the most important metric. and it's arguably one of the easier things that you could maximize. What's very interesting about what you said is,

well, we'll get back to all these ultimate goals, but just on the dating point, you say, look, what matters in dating is looks. And that has been true for all of history, to some degree, but I think it's truer today than it was 30 years ago because, I'll give you an example. I went to a prestigious university where you got a lot of guys

who graduate, like I'm talking about the parents of my classmates. A lot of the guys, they don't look good, but a lot of them become very rich. And we would sometimes joke that the girls who went to this school looked kind of like aliens because they had these supermodel moms and these like fat, ugly dads. But the dads were really rich. And so, listen, it's a little bit of a stereotype. Plenty of people did not fit the stereotype. But when you think of generations past, there are plenty of...

not-so-great-looking guys who ended up with beautiful women for reasons of, I don't know, social rights and rituals for reasons of money, for reasons of class status, for reasons of profession, whatever. They didn't have the dating apps. And so even that, you get into looksmaxing because the online forums, you get the drugs for looks maxing because of the internet marketplaces, and you say, the reason I need to looks max is because all the dating takes place online where you're reduced to a picture. Right. Of course. And that's something that often gets brought up to me. And here's my response to the whole thing about money would be what's more likely for the average guy? Because I think of things in sociological terms. I think that's very interesting to me. Just look at men across the society. What's more likely? Someone to ascend from maybe, you know, slightly below average to above average through looks maxing or for them to achieve that desired amount of wealth for a supermodel to date them. like, you know, we should be telling people to go the looks route. Why?

Because it's easier. It's more realistic. Is it cheap to looks max or does it cost money? It's just more achievable. You know, people with... I'm just saying how much do these drugs cost? Not much. It's not really that difficult.

It's more of a time investment. But someone is likely going to lack the intellect to be able to achieve this status max to to achieve, you know, income max. So just across the society, I would say we should be advocating for looks. I'm not sure I agree with you that it's easier to look better than it is to make some money or do well in your job or what have you. I mean, there are plenty people at the top of their profession, whatever that profession is, blue collar, white collar, people who would be considered by some metric elite who are not that intelligent, who probably don't have a very high IQ, but who work very hard, who are clever, who are scrappy, who are hustlers,

Well, you know, we're talking about across the society, not just like a couple of anecdotes of maybe some dumb blue collar like Brut, you know, maybe owning his own company. So that just seems a little bit ridiculous to me to suggest that it would be easier to jump 20 percentiles in terms of income or status than in looks. I guess the reason, if I think across the society that I'm skeptical of this, not just the Brute who ends up with his own company, but people who, you know, across industries and. class strata, I know way more rich guys than I know really good looking guys. And I think we see more rich guys in society than we see good looking guys. So all things else being equal, if you just want to, I don't know, attract a chick, wouldn't it? And I guess the reason I'm pushing on this point is when you learn how to do well in your job, when you learn how to cultivate some skill that the marketplace rewards, aren't you improving yourself in other ways that just

enhancing your bone structure does not. Absolutely. No, and you're fully right. And before we go any further down this rabbit hole, I don't want to act like these two forms of improvement are mutually exclusive whatsoever. I advocate for all the same stuff you're talking about. I think that, you know, learning a high-value skill is one of the most important things that you could do. I'm just saying that it's going to be easier for you to actually ascend and overcome a lot of the disparities in the dating market through looks. I'm not saying neglect. you know, getting rich, neglect, you know, your status.

That would be absolutely ridiculous for me to suggest. So I'm saying a well-rounded maugger is kind of required with how difficult the scene is these days. I grant, I sometimes think that I got the last chopper at an Am, you know, because I'm a millennial, and I was single for a bit, and I always liked dating when I was single, but I, you know, married the love of my life, and we have this great life.

And I think, man, if I had to date in the year of our Lord, in 2025, I would be very upset. I would have to learn how to MOG. I would have to learn how to mu. I would have to learn all these skills that I don't possess. Yeah, absolutely. And I would say that the main reason that is is because of Instagram, right? And a lot of people don't understand the implications of, you know, access to the internet and access to communicating with everyone across the entire world, essentially. So what that looks like in terms of a hypergamy standpoint was, you know, maybe you had a girl from your town who was going to try to date above her looks level, maybe just in her immediate surroundings. But now we've got people like, you know, professional

athletes DMing them on Instagram, flying them out. So you're not just competing with the top Chads of your 15-mile radius. You're competing with the entire world. So it's just... The Chads of the world. Maybe who even live in Chad. Yeah. The nation of Chad. You got no idea. Well, I doubt it. But... So it's becoming a... increasingly difficult to compete as like the average guy. So there's this purgatory zone where even someone who's average to above average could be struggling to secure a long-term relationship a lot of the times. And that's like really alarming. This is very interesting because the observation you're making pertains to the economic discussion too. A lot of the debates over free trade and

economic policy in the last 10 years have revolved around the perils of globalization. Previously, you only had to compete against your countrymen. Now you got to compete against you against your countrymen, the flood of foreigners that comes in across an open border, and a globalized world with jobs being outsourced all over the globe. Yeah, exactly. Very similar.

But yeah, even if it was just domestically, like things are really bad. Like when you've got girls being flown out by like Shaquille O'Neal, and you're just an average guy making maybe $80,000 a year, like, what are you supposed to do? Does that happen? Does Shaquille O'Neal fly out girls from Palookaville? Oh, I'm sure.

Yeah, absolutely. Really? Or is that the thing? Like, I... It's a fun story, and I guess it could have... But does that really happen? Absolutely. Yeah, no, I've seen professional athletes like following, like, girls I knew from, like, my hometown. Like, this is, like, a very common thing. Because with how degenerate, the society has moved,

these girls are taking on so many different sexual partners that, you know, that there's a lot of, you know, plausibility for this kind of stuff. So the promiscuity is a major problem. I mean, on a whole host of social levels. But what you're telling me is, looks maxing is chiefly about getting a girlfriend. No, no. Your looks are going to improve your quality of life in a lot of different regards, whether it be in the workplace, just overall opportunities presented to you.

This is all going to be tailored to looks. And the main thing that you need to understand is the halo effect. I don't know if you've heard about this. What is the halo effect? The halo effect is that people are going to perceive the things that you say, and the things that you do a lot better if you're good-looking, right? Yeah.

So... There's like that meme where some really good-looking guy goes in, he's like, hey, Shelley, nice dress today. And she's like, oh, thanks, Giga-Chat. And then some, like, fat guy walks up. He's like, nice dress, Shelly. And she's like, ah, hello, HR. Exactly, yeah.

So, no, that's a pinnacle example of the halo effect and what that looks like. So if you've got to be this fat slob who's getting HR complaints that you saw, you know, another guy due two seconds ago, that's got to be quite brutal, you know? So just your overall well-being, if you're an unattractive person, and no one even wants to look at you in the elevator,

no one even wants to shake your hand or acknowledge you, it's horrible for your mental, for your mental well-being. And that's why I think looks-maxing goes a lot further than just getting a girlfriend. Like, that seems like a very silly thing to do all the... At least, though, you would have to say, the thesis of looks-maxing is that looks are the most important thing in life. Yeah.

What about the non-physical things? You know, I'm a little older than you. And when I was a kid, we were told, looks aren't everything. Don't judge a book by its cover. It's what's on the inside that counts. You know, Christianity and religion generally teaches us that there is more to life than the material aspects of this world. And we need to focus on the spirit. Yeah, no, absolutely.

But the thing is, your subconscious tells you if someone is genetically, disfortunate that they are lesser than you, and you have to kind of fight that if you're thinking in terms of Christianity to acknowledge them as an equal. So if you've got to go against, like, your biological instincts to have a belief system, it already kind of just makes it a little bit difficult, you know? Yeah, but don't we do that in a whole host of ways? Like, there's, I believe, in original sin, and I, and concupiscence, I think it's a fallen world. And so sometimes people drive me crazy and I kind of want to murder them. My biology or some fallen aspect of my nature urges me to murder them or to go sleep with a hundred other women who aren't my wife or to eat 10 more

cupcakes off the table. And I have to fight against that just as I fight against all sin. But what's easier to convince every single person in the United States to treat everyone equally based on looks and really fight their biological instincts or to individually improve yourself so that you don't have to. Well, I guess maybe the question then becomes over the improvement, because you've already granted that some of these drugs that you're taking, they might have negative side effects. You know, is looks maxing all just drugs? No, no, no, no.

What else is there to it? So there's a lot of stuff about, like, coloring, like, you know, being tanner. It could even be as simple as... Is tanning? Yes. Well, the UV damage. UV exposure can certainly... No, I'm saying from the looks max perspective,

do people like the tanner people or the whiter people? The tanner people, actually. And they've done a lot of different surveying about this. Usually, tanned European phenotypes are the most ideal. So... Because you would think, oh, maybe this is just racist. But you would... I thought the idea was people value whiteness more,

and that's one of the great sins of our culture, is that whiteness is considered more beautiful than brownness or blackness. But you're saying, no, it's the, basically you need to Sicilian max, and then you're in a good spot. Yeah, not necessarily. I mean, it's also just a health indicator to be a little bit more tanned rather than completely pale. So that's why people often prefer it. So that's another part.

It could even be as simple as getting leaner, lean maxing is a big part of Lux Maxing. And that's arguably the most important thing that you could do, because you can do all this. You can get surgeries. But at the end of the day, if you're, you know, 12. 20, 25% body fat, you're not even able to see any of your facial angularity or definition. You've got no idea what's underneath all of the sludge. Okay, so you get rid of the sludge, you go on a good diet, you work out, you, and maybe, okay, that's basic.

Everyone, yeah, okay, you want to look better, you work out and eat better. Everyone knows that. Everyone knows that. Then you raise the stakes a little bit and you say, and inject yourself with things like testosterone and other hormones. Okay, that raises it a little bit. Is that it? Is that where it maxes out?

No, so I'm getting a double jaw surgery and a couple weeks from now. So that's probably the furthest it goes, is plastic surgery. What is, this is really ignorant, and I'm learning a lot sitting here. Okay. What do you mean a double jaw surgery? You're not getting a second jaw. No, they just perform two osteotomies. Meaning like one side and the other side?

No, no, no. So your upper jaw, which is your maxilla. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. in your lower jaw, your mandible, they're just doing an osteotomy on both of the jaws and then advancing them forward.

Now, why are you doing that? You're a good-looking guy. Well, you know, because I want to look better, right? Why? Okay. Before I ask my next question, why do you want to look better? Meaning, look, I would get it if you looked like some mutant

and you had some deformities and it was really messing up your life. But you're tall, muscular, you've got defined bone features. Why do you need to go further? Well, I mean, you're already rich. You know, why are we here right now doing this interview? Because I think...

I would turn that around on you. I like having money. Money is a nice thing to have. But I don't really like spending money that much. And so I'm happy to make the money and get more money. But I think there's more than my work. You get what I'm saying, right? No, but I think it's an important distinction.

I work for a lot more than money. If I only wanted to make money, I would have gone into banking or consulting or something. So I work for a lot more than that. Why, what are you working for when you get the double jaw surgery? To look better. And, you know, just because you're already doing okay or you're well off, is that a reason to quit? Is that a reason to sort of put the brakes on?

That seems a little ridiculous. I would never... Let me ask in another way. You say, why do I need to keep working? And I say, well, in part, it's to make more money and then I can put my kids through school and maybe I can take them on a vacation or whatever. But it's also to... So I can mock harder.

To spread the ideas that I care about. It's also to raise my political influence in ways that I think would help shape the country in a good way. It's also to spread my view of religion, spread the gospel, hopefully convert some people. There are myriad reasons that I would continue to work. But it would be doing the interview and doing the shows for those reasons. And so what I'm asking you is, you already look good. What is what is looking better for? So I am someone who just wants to mug essentially. I've done this speech a few times. I don't really care about getting girls. That's kind of lost its novelty. At this point, I just want to mock people. I want to have a better halo effect and just better overall quality of life through my looks. Look, sometimes a guy just wants to mock.

I totally. I get it. But this then brings us back to the spiritual point that I alluded to. I could get the looks maxing if it were about getting a girl. You couldn't get a girl, now you want to get a girl. Now getting a girl isn't just so you can get laid, in my humble opinion, getting a girl is so that you can get married and you can have a family and you can have kids and you can be part of your community.

You know, it's for stuff. I would get looks maxing if you say, well, so that I can get a better, job because employers are going to treat me better and they're going to promote me. Okay, I see that's for something. But if you're saying, if you're saying with a straight face, even with a new double jaw straight face, you say, look, man, I just want a mug, then I would have to ask, at that point, isn't looks maxing just vanity? I would say in a lot of regards, you know, it could be perceived that way, but that's my

interpretation of it. And that's just my overall thing. And the word mog could mean so much, right? That can mean all the things that you just mentioned. What do we mean by mug, I guess? Just live. What is a mauger? A mocker is someone who's just like, I would say, you know, the peak human.

And that's kind of what I'm going for. And that's in all metrics, right? I don't want to only mug in looks. I also want a mog and wealth. I also want a mog in status, which is becoming as well-rounded, like a full-packing. monger as I can. You know, and I...

I get that. And that there's a lot that's admirable about that. But there is a part that you have left out in your total magging package, which is something we were just talking about. And I wonder if... Spiritual aspect? Yes. Does that cut against all of the other magging? Is there any conflict there?

I don't think so. I really don't think so at all. You know, there might be certain parts of religion, whether it be Christianity or I'm not sure if... Other people might be followers of Islam. Christianity is the true one. Don't worry about the other ones. Well, just to acknowledge, like, whatever viewers are watching,

but I would tend to agree with you. You know, I'm not sure if there's different, you know, scripture about not modifying yourself to that extent. Well, in the old law, you can't have tattoos, but... I'm not much of a theologian, so I couldn't speak to that too well. There is a warning against, in the Christian religion, against pride, you know, excessive love of one's own excellence, against vanity, against making idols out of the material things of this world. These are some of the, if you wanted to be the greatest spiritual maugger, I do wonder if that would conflict with maugging in all of these other areas, physically in terms of wealth. I could see how it could, but I don't really think that it necessarily.

necessarily what in my case. Here will be one verse that I'm going to rewrite a little bit. It is easier for the camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a wealth-maxed mager to enter into the kingdom of heaven. Okay. Interesting. That's the MKV version of the Bible. Yeah, so I don't really have too much regard for the spiritual aspect when I'm trying to

look max. I'm kind of all in on what I'm doing right now. now and I'm not, you know, necessarily advocating against Christianity. I think that there's a lot that can be gained from religion and a lot of young men. It's helped so many people, but this is just my pursuit in the immediate moment. Okay. So then bringing it back to more quotidian things. You say, you said something earlier, you said, look, I'm not doing it just to get girls. The shine has rubbed off of that. Do you have a girlfriend? No. No girlfriend. Do you want a girlfriend? I'm a little bit young.

I'm kind of focused on career right now. I've heard a lot of my... But, you know, I had my first girlfriend when I was 12. And maybe that's a little bit too young. And then I dated in high school, ended up marrying my high school sweetheart, albeit later. And so I don't know, I never found... I've heard this from my friends where they say,

I'm not focused on girls now. I'm going to have a career. I'm going to be established. I'm going to make some money. And then I'll worry about dating and getting married when I'm 30 or 35. Yeah, no. That's another cope because people, by the time they're 35, a lot of their youth indicators have gone to...

And they haven't really gained enough progress to justify that looks decline with maybe the increase in income and that kind of thing. So I would say that's probably not a good idea, but certainly at 19 years old for me to put, you know, my career sort of at a halt or at least slow down, you know, the traction that I've been gaining seems a little bit ridiculous. Does it need to, just having a girlfriend or... It does. It does. Yeah. Why do you say that? Just in my personal case, I mean, I do a lot of content that's, you know, talking to other girls or, you know, pursuing maybe like one night's hand sort of stuff.

Wait, hold on. You do content that involves... Like, trying to... You're not a pornographer. No, no, no, just like trying to go to, like, parties and sleigh. Okay. I got any. So it's like, is it like...

like pickup artist stuff? No, no, no, no, just like testing out, like, it's basically just like a litmus test, like, do I mog yet? Or like, you know what I mean? So, like, for instance, you would get the jaw surgeries and you say, okay, thesis, hypothesis, I am going to slay more and mug harder once I have the jaw surgery. I will test this through the methodology of the party. Uh-huh, yeah, okay. It's kind of the idea behind it. And also with streaming, I stream every single day for hours. I'm on my computer all day. I really wouldn't have the time to be

really an interesting partner for any woman, that's for sure. Would that maybe balance you out a little bit if you took an hour a day to go get a drink with a girl? I mean, I'm going to be honest with you. If I had an extra hour a day, I would be using it at the gym before I'd use it to go get a drink, you know? That seems a little bit.

Not just to go get a drink, but to get a drink with a girl, with a girlfriend, with a potential wife, with... In other words, is your life a little bit out of balance? Are you thinking a little too much about maxing out yourself? Would it actually help you, perhaps, to take that hour? But it's never an hour, because let's actually break it down. So, first of all, you've got to identify a girl, right?

Then you've got to shoot her a first inquiry, whether it be an Instagram message or a cold approach, So we're already like down two hours, right? That just... So how long does it take you to... You know, it takes me a long time. To find a hot girl these days? Well, if you've got standards, it's literally two hours.

So you go around, you find this girl, then you have to go and do an activity, God forbid. That's like, you know, maybe four or five hours, doing some jester maxed, like bowling or whatever Normicopes like Zoomers do. So that's already... I gotta ask before we move on. What is...

What is gesture maxed? Like they're clowns. When you go bowling with a girl? I mean, I don't think I've ever gone on a bowling date. But what is, why is doing an activity with a girl you want to date necessarily gesture maxed? Because you're just like this, I think of it like you're this big jester like doing these silly activities. Like you're basically like just an activity cell. Like what are you doing?

Like bowling? What if you become just a dinner set? just a dinner cell, which is a less clownish activity. I'd say that's a little bit more reasonable, but we still have the same issue of the inconvenience, right, and the time, right? That's three hours of dinner? No, you would be taking, you're right, you would be saying the time that I otherwise would be spending, working out, injecting, jaw maxing, time that would be entirely focused on myself, I will be taking the three hours or four hours, or ever many hours, to focus on another person and another person

with whom I could maybe build a life. Potentially, yeah, but I would say that what's available to you and your options will increase drastically if you instead dedicate those three, four hours into maximizing other metrics of your life. So now when it's finally time to enter the dating market and settle down with that long-term partner, you're more established as a man

and you've got a lot more going for you. Okay, here's my rejoinder to that. This, too, when you're talking about how you approach a girl. Even that has this through line of everything's online. Your work is online. You discovered looks maxing online. You found the drugs online. You started swiping right online. And even now you're saying, well, if I want to approach a girl, you know, I got a find her and I have to send her a DM. And I think... Well, that's just one avenue. I also acknowledge, like, the in-person, like, old approach method. Yes. But that's the first one that came to mind. And I think that's probably

true for most people today. And I think, all right, yeah, that's true. It's probably tough. If I were single today, I'd be on the apps all the time. However, I think I would. Maybe I wouldn't. I don't know. Instagram mocks hard, especially if you have a lot of followers, you're much better off there. That's true. Although then I'd kind of worry, are they just after me for my, you know, like-maxing gram-mogging, you know? Or do they really love me? Well, if you're just trying to go for like, you know, one-night stands and slay, it doesn't really matter. I would no longer be trying to slay. I would be trying to capture and marry. Oh, yeah.

I would find it to be sinful to fornication max. I would be avoiding that. So then it makes me think, all right, well, I don't have to do that now because I'm married. And I did something very strange, which is I married my high school sweetheart. We split up for a little bit in the middle, but I married my high school sweetheart, which people used to do all the time. Very few people do now. And a lot of people will say, don't marry your high school sweetheart, because, especially if you're an ambitious, self-improving looks maxer, the pool that you can pick from is going to be so much better five or ten years from now when you're in the professional world and you got some wealth and status.

Right. I have anecdotally observed, but the plural of anecdot is data, that the best marriages I've ever seen have been people who knew each other when they were very young and kids even. which is not online, which is not about status, really, because everyone's kind of equal in school, which is not primarily physical. Obviously, you have to have a physical attraction, but you're not grading people on scales. It seems to be totally the opposite

of everything you're describing in the modern dating market, but might that old way be better? I don't really disagree with you there about the whole high school sweetheart thing because that's like a theory that we talk about called Just Be First. in the Luxmax community. And the idea behind that is

all the pair bonding abilities remain intact if you're marrying young and both partners are virgins, especially the woman. You know, that tends to lead to more everlasting relationships, lower divorce rates. I think the data absolutely agrees with you there. I'm just simply saying that in my case,

it would be a comical idea to put my career at a standstill for a girlfriend, because that is almost required. It's very rare that you're able to progress to the degree that you otherwise would be with a long-term partner. Well, certainly in what you do, if part of what you do involves you going out

and picking up chats, then you could not have a girlfriend while you were doing that. Well, I also work pretty much all hours that I'm awake. So I'm an incredibly boring person. That's true, though. You know, that is something I have to fight. I work all the time. I don't have a real job, but I work all the time.

So I would almost feel bad, like, you know, being in a serious relationship and just being like the most boring, awful person ever. But, well, would you be boring? No, you might work a lot. You might have to fight to make time, you know, for your girlfriend. I wouldn't. But would you be boring. And maybe you wouldn't want to do that.

Why would you be boring? Well, I mean, it's not really interesting when all you're doing is sitting on your, your computer like doing a show all the time. You're interesting enough that people watch it. Oh, absolutely. But, you know, unless the girlfriend wants to tune into the streams and become a viewer, if she's just on the sidelines, it's not really that interesting. I don't know.

Do you agree with that? I would disagree with that because I work all the time. And look, it's a little different. I'm married. I have kids. I have many reasons to carve out as much time as I can to not be on the road and to not be working. But I endeavor to cultivate other interests and other desires and other loves beyond politics or whatever it is that I do, selling cigars. And this, I wonder, I wonder if that is missing from the looks maxing idea, meaning while you're looks maxing and doing the attendant wealth maxing and all the other stuff, we've talked about maybe a neglect of the spiritual maxing.

But what about even like book maxing? What about even cultivating loves for art or culture or things that yet again are not exactly physical? Which make you interesting and will make girls find you interesting. No, I absolutely agree with you. It's just like what are you going to dedicate your time to? And once again, I believe that once you start, you know, you have to be like pedal to the medal with your career, especially these days with how competitive, like the job market is and everything. So it's just about, you know, the return on time investment for anything that you do. If you believe that you could get more value reading a book for two hours, then, you know, maybe learning a skill.

If that's going to help you just in terms of your mental well-being, then fine. You know, everyone's got a different answer to what works for them. So I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you. I'm just saying what works for me anecdotally. Are you in college? No, I actually got expelled from college. All right, well, then forget my question. Why did you get expelled from college?

For lux maxing, essentially, I got caught with steroids in my dorm room, and I got kicked out. I only lasted three weeks. Wow. I know other people who got booted from college, three weeks is fast. Yeah, I'd say I'd probably set the record with that. The reason I ask about college is, people think today college is about just going and learning a skill and getting a job and, you know, making a lot of money. That's really not what it's for. What it's supposed to be for is actually not learning any skills.

It's for reading old books and thinking about abstract mathematics and science and cultivating an inner life and, you know, familiarizing yourself with the greatest that our civilization has to offer and thinking even about eternal things. And then you can go either grad school or an apprenticeship, learn on the job, do something else. But it's about the idea that there is more to life than looks and that this will make you a more interesting person.

it will make you a more interested person, and that this is at least as important as how you look, and maybe much more important. Go to balance of nature.com. Tis the season where everyone's getting run down, everybody's tired, everyone's getting sick, no one's eating right, everybody's stuff in their faces full of sweets.

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supplements special is they're packed with 47 ingredients from 100% real whole fruits, vegetables, spices and fibers. Everything from cillium husk and flaxse to cinnamon, turmeric, mango, pineapple, wild livery, shodky mushroom, spinach, kale, cayenne pepper, and so much more. And did I mention cillium husk? It is a simple way to give your body the nutrition needs every day. I love it, especially when I'm on the rubbing traveling like a maniac, eating like trash. Good way to supplement that, Balance of Nature. New and existing customers get 50% off the whole health system for life with this limited time. I'll go to balancefnature.com to claim this offer today. I think that the actual interpretation of what college is supposed to be, like you just mentioned, is amazing.

You know, people with higher intellect going to do these studies is a wonderful thing, and that's how you have a great society. But in the modern context, we're just sending everyone off to college universally. Yeah, yeah. And it doesn't really make sense to educate people with lesser intellect, because they don't have the capability to necessarily put these skills into practice. They're probably going to be working blue-collar jobs in a lot of cases. It's just kind of like a thing that people do now without... And they get $200,000 worth of debt as their reward. Yeah, so I think that college shouldn't be as universal as just like a thing that you do.

I totally agree with that. It should be like a very sought-after thing for the upper echelon of people. But part of, yes, I agree with that. Part of what college endeavors to do can be replicated elsewhere, though. which is to make people well-rounded, to make people have multiple facets to their life. And you mentioned earlier, you said, you know, I'm a little bit autistic, a little touch of the tism.

And I think that's true for a lot of people these days, whether we're talking about real autism or just kind of habits of mind that singularly focus people, especially men, especially right-wing men, especially online men. Wouldn't it be good to be a little well-rounded? Do you ever, do you have that desire or no? You say, no, I've picked my lane,

I am the looks max, broadcaster, live streamer, and I'm just going to do that to the nth degree, everything else be damned. I would say that I am pretty well-rounded. It's just I have a very different idea on what's actually important to fit that definition. So like a thing that I often speak out against is young people getting into politics. Yeah. So that would probably be something, I don't know if you agree.

I totally agree with that. You know, so that's an example. Oh, well, you're not, you know, maybe people would contest that with, oh, you're not well-rounded, you don't have like a good grasp on like geopolitics. And I'm like, well, yeah, that's intentional because I find it to be extremely silly to advocate for young people who don't have a lot going for them. They maybe have like a very low credit score, low income, and they're worried about, you know, foreign wars or something like that. Yeah, yeah. I agree. Like that, that's something that I've always been extremely outspoken on. I agree. Look, civic engagement is good,

But these, you know, for a 14-year-old to be, you know, waking up in terror at night because of climate change or some nonsense, some war overseas, I think is totally disordered. So I entirely agree with that. But because you got into this so young, because you're still so young, wouldn't you maybe, couldn't you apply the same kind of reasoning to a young clavicular and say, hey, maybe don't get so obsessed with this one. things so young, maybe rounded out a little bit. Well, the problem is, like we discussed, it's a now or never thing with a lot of these growth pathways. So you can either, you know, optimize them and ascend past what was possible genetically without the intervention of pharmaceuticals, or you can just cope and never have the success that you otherwise could have. How long is the recovery for the jaw surgery?

It's going to be about three weeks of extreme swelling. And I would say for 100% of the swelling to go down, it'd be about six months. But after three weeks, like, you're pretty much looking how you will. Just a gradual decline in, like, that final push of swelling. Have any of the doctors said, hey, man, you know, you don't really need this surgery, and this is kind of gratuitous, and maybe you're a little wrong in your thinking here, and maybe there's even a touch of body dysergely. Morphia. Have any of them suggested that?

No, not really. So you just go in, you say, hey, I'm a big beefcake, Chad-looking guy, and I want to give you a bunch of money. How much money does it cost? 35,000. 35,000? Okay. So you go in, you say, hey, I want to, I'm a 19-year-old guy. I want to give you 35 grand to make me look even more giga... Chad. Even more chaty. And they just say, okay, thanks. Yeah, wipe the MX here. Well, because nobody, in a lot of cases, the double jaw surgeries that I'm

talking about with, like, the cosmetic implants, that's an elective thing, right? Sure, certainly double jaw exists as a way to fix, you know, horrible airways and sleep apnea, but in my case... Figurement from a car accident or something. Yeah, right, but a lot of the times it would be just like sleep apnea and breathing related issues would be the main cause for jaw surgery, but that's like severe recession and severe developmental issues. But most people in the modern era actually do need jaw surgery because they have dental crowding, they don't have enough space in their mouth to even accommodate for their teeth because of whether it be just poor development, poor breathing habits as a kid. So I would say that the majority of people would actually

need jaw surgery to fit within the ideals of looks. Where does a 19-year-old get $35,000? So after I got kicked out of college, it was kind of a rough time for me. And what kept me going was how much I was working. I was working 70, 80 hours a week at a restaurant, trying to afford the jaw surgery because I felt like that was my way out in life. That was how I was going to ascend and, you know, improve upon everything.

Ascend in looks. Ascend in every regard. In society. Yeah, just ascend as a person. So you want, when was this? This was in 2020, so last year. This is pretty recent. Yeah.

So you get booted out of college. You're working, what was the job? I was working at a restaurant. Working at a restaurant. And you say, okay, the reason I'm working all the time is so that I can afford to improve my jaw with plastic surgery. Yes, because I figured the return on investment would be comically high, right? So you improve that much in looks, the opportunities that are going to be available to you, will absolutely exceed the $35,000 investment.

Where do you get your certainty that that's the case? Just what I've seen in society, a lot of anecdotes. Like, we look at a lot of the come-ups for famous people. They'll get, like, scouted for being, like, famous actors or models. Like, doing heinous... You know, like, for example, like Jordan Barrett got scouted to be a... who's, like, one of the top, like, looks max. People were scouted, like, while he's, like, stealing.

There's this other guy named Jeremy Meeks. I don't know if you've heard of. So he committed a felony, and he had a mugshot where a lot of girls on Facebook liked him. I thought he was good-looking, so they bailed him out, and then he got a $1 million modeling contract. So, like, that's what's available to you once you hit that top percentile of looks.

You could pretty much do anything, and your life will be easy. Now, would you... I don't know that I... I'm not saying I doubt the stories, but I don't know if you would use... those stories as the model for life saying, you know what I gotta do? I gotta be really hot and commit a felony,

and that's my pathway to success. Well, it's just being that good looking, being like the top, like 0.01 percentile of men in terms of looks, it's just a guarantee for success. Like, you can't lose. There's really no losing. So I'm not sure about this. I got a few more years than you,

but maybe you've done more research. Absolutely, there's no losing when you're that level of looks. I know good... In today's day and age. I know good-looking... Look, maybe this is generations past. I know good-looking people, guys and girls, who have not had much terrestrial success.

And I grant you it's very important in show business, in broadcast professions, you know, acting, whatever. But I also know a lot of very, very successful people in the kind of worldly way and in the spiritual way and sometimes in both who are not even close. They are very looks moderated. they are maybe even looks minimized. And I know many examples of that. And I can think of counter examples of like hot people. I mean, this is kind of the joke or the meme. It's like the guy and the girl who were really hot, you know, in high school.

They don't have a lot of success in their lives. And, you know, the nerd is the one who goes off to school and, I don't know, becomes a billionaire. I mean, that seems to be more the stereotype. That's just not what we're seeing in today's day and age with social media. I would say that that's probably how it was for a while. But now when you're just able to open up Instagram or TikTok and put a picture of yourself

when you're that good looking and, you know, get extreme success and brand deals and stuff like that. In influence it. Yeah. Yeah. So that's like a no-brainer, right? It's guaranteed when you're good-looking.

You don't even have to be an interesting persona to do well on social media with good looks. Surely you would admit there are plenty of good-looking people on social media who don't get lucrative brand deals. I would say that just like where I was, like working in a restaurant versus, you know, achieving success on social media. Like I would have done better, absolutely. So that would have been a return on investment that made sense. Right, no, but I'm saying, you're saying, you're saying looking good, if you look really, really good and you have Instagram, that's a guarantee of professional success and lucrative success. And I'm just saying there are plenty of hot people on social media who aren't that successful

Then you know that that's also people who are low IQ as well, but I would say that that's a very rare thing Is that is that even true? I bet most hot people on social media don't get a lot of likes and certainly don't get brand- Well, what are we talking about by hot like good looking like some people think that like Sidney Sweeney is extremely attractive I I would say I don't want to scandalize anybody a married man I I would say Sidney Sweeney is very attractive. I would say that she's pretty malformed.

Her upper maxilla is extremely recessed, right? She's got the eyes of doom with no infrared support. She's really not that much of a looker in her face. I think that a lot of people with porn brains find her attractive because of her body. I don't have porn brain. You're telling me that you're telling me

that if a guy finds Sidney Sweeney attractive, he's got to have poor brain? No, I think that she's above average in looks, but certainly not that, like, you know. No, you said she's got a sunken suborbital, I forget the words that you said. Yeah, she's got a recessed infraorbital and recessed upper maxilla.

You're telling me, you go to a bar. I'm just saying she's not the pinnacle of looks that I'm talking about to actually succeed on social media. She's average to above average. She's pretty successful. Doesn't that more bode for my side of the argument? Not really. That looks is not the one-to-one garrarrow.

of success, even by your low estimation of how she looks? Well, that doesn't argue with my principle at all, that if someone is actually the 9 out of 10 looks level that we're talking about, the top percentile that they'll be famous, I'm just simply stating that she's not that top echelon. So who's really beautiful? Well, if we're talking about just like supermodels.

Someone that I don't recognize anybody, but someone that the audience might recognize. Like, we'll talk about like supermodels like, you know, Giselle Bunchin and Taylor Hill, like the top, like, Victoria. Was she the one, Giselle Buncheon? Was she the one married to Tom Brady? Correct. Yes. Right. So you think she's hotter than Sidney Sweeney? Absolutely. No. That's ridiculous to suggest otherwise.

No way. There are different ages, I guess. So maybe I'm grading on a curve. Yeah, I mean, maybe like her recently would probably not be as great. But in her prime, yeah, absolutely. It blows out of the water. Why? Well, because of her facial harmony. scores, right? There's measurements that you could take of everyone's face to figure out exactly how attractive they are. It's an objective thing. The only thing that would make look subjective was, like, some people may prefer, like, more tan skin versus pale skin like we were talking about

before. But even then, it's... I agree that beauty is an objective thing. So I totally disagree with the modern conception that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I think it's a cope. And I do think, I'm with St. Thomas Aquinas, that part of what is beautiful... is harmony, you know, is harmonizing, radiance and things like that. Symmetry. Yeah, so absolutely. So that's simply what I'm stating is, you know, there might be a false idea of what's actually that good-looking if, you know, Sidney were to apply that principle, start posting on social media without acting, oh, where's my brand deals? It's like, well, you're not who we're talking about.

Now, hold on. Why did you conclude that people who think Sidney-Sweeney is attractive use pornography? What is it about porn that would lead you to that conclusion? I think a lot of what they like about her is, you know, her breasts and probably just her body. And that's generally like a very like gooner, porn consumer mentality. But what about just her face? You know what? You say she doesn't have a pretty face. I would say that she's probably right on, around average, slightly above. Wow.

Okay, I would, yeah, I wouldn't agree with that. But I think if you put her, her, her face. head onto an average chick's body, she would be pretty much invisible outside of, like, you know, a third world country. Now, okay, I'm very curious about the pornification of it all, because this ties into what you've been talking about from the beginning, which is your whole looks maxine journey has been online. It's been revolving around every step of the way.

And what is the definitive, I don't know, content of the internet? It's just porn from the earliest days. Well, that's just the new look that you're seeing pushed by, I don't know, globalism or whatever is like the thick thing. Where you're seeing like all these girls who have like, you know, a lot more body fat. But their faces might be chubbier because, you know, they're going to have more more fat now and they're, you know, and their breasts. So that's kind of just like a new thing that's being pushed. And you're saying fat girls are being pushed in pornography. No, not necessarily fat, just like, you know, higher body fat. Whereas, you know, you would see in like the 90s in the early 2000s, like with modeling,

it was like a very skinny look. The face was very angular. And that I would say that porn probably did the most damage to, you know, what's pushed. There was a lot of porn in the 90s. I don't You weren't around then, but I was around that. But it wasn't accessible by every 12-year-old with an iPad. Yeah, well, it wasn't iPads. It was computers. I mean, internet porn, look, there were... It's much worse now.

It's a lot worse because the Internet's faster. But there were pieces of legislation to combat this in the 90s. It was the Communications Decency Act and the Child Online Protection Act because there was this flood of porn all over the Internet. It really started in the 90s, and they both got shot down by judges, unfortunately. The reason the porn thing is interesting to me on this topic is, it's so online, all of this is so profoundly online. And one of the evils of pornography is it reduces humanity merely to the physical.

I'm very anti-porn myself, yeah. I think it ruins your dopamine system. It's going to give you a very bad perception of how women are in the actual real life, because a lot of it's just acting. It's all fake. All of fantasy. Yeah, so that has done a lot. of damage for people, especially with the recent stuff like OnlyFans and just how widespread it is,

you know, stuff being all over Twitter, it's really not good. And I'm simply saying that just like the look of women has been vastly altered. Yeah, I certainly agree or I strongly suspect, what do I know? I haven't read all the studies, but I strongly suspect that porn so screws up people's brains that it changes their desires and what they consider attractive. I totally agree with that. My point, I guess, is one of the evils of pornography is it reduces people who are these integral human beings with soul and body.

It reduces them to the physical. So it's just meatbags, bump and uglies on a screen. It's even one level abstracted. But isn't that a commonality with looks maxing, which is to reduce the human person down to the level of the physical, the physical being the most important? I would say that, yeah, it's not far from the truth, you know, but it's just what needs to be done in society. You need to improve upon this metric.

You know, we could sit here. Do you, though? You do. I don't feel like I do. I mean, listen, I, in my mind, I consider... Because you've achieved success in other regards to such... Other regards. Are you suggesting I'm not looks maxed?

No, I would say that, you know, obviously, anyone... who does media is going to be reasonably good looking, right? So take it. I'll take it. Yeah, so, no, you've achieved this success to such a high level that maybe you could make up for not fully looks maxing or not taking like the double jaw surgery route. Like, you know, you're a huge host of a massive show, you know, so that status might be able to carry you rather than, you know, having to.

Okay, but let's say that I warrant. I appreciate all the compliments. And it's great. And I like, this is nice. I'll take it. I'll take a broad, you know, I haven't looks minimized at least. But let's say that all that wasn't true. And let's say that I were a guy and I were, I don't know, even more looks minimized. And I was fashion minimized and I didn't have a show and I didn't check certain status markers. And let's say I were just a guy married to a nice gal. And maybe. she wasn't even that good looking. Maybe let's say we had a nice family and we had some kids and we were living in a house that's fine, but not that nice. And, you know, I made some money, but not a ton and we had like a car that was okay. And we went out to dinner every so often and maybe we got to go to the beach once a year. And by all of the metrics that we're talking about, you know, I wasn't maxed out at all. But mightn't it very likely be the case that I would be

happier, more flourishing than the richer, better-looking, more professionally successful guy? Or you say no, that's a fairy tale. Well, yeah, I'd say that's a really nice idea. And, like, in theory, potentially, but that's just not what we're seeing. I've seen it. I'm not going to call anybody out, but I've seen it. Yeah, I mean, maybe you've seen it once or twice. I'm sure most people watching out, but that's just not what we're seeing on average across the country, right?

I'm saying that, yes, I agree with that. On average across the country, I bet that's true. However, the whole country isn't made equal. And so, for instance, if I go to an average bar in Brooklyn, I'm going to get a different sliver of society than if I go to a traditional Latin mass in Wisconsin. Right. And I guess my point is, it's kind of even silly

to create an average of those things because there's such radically different types of communities. And everything that I see is that the people who are, especially who are religiously active, but who are civically engaged, who are charitable, who are not thinking about themselves all the time, or thinking about others and their countrymen, those people tend to be happier. I think they're flourishing on way more levels of success at a higher level than the people who live in this very modern, secular, largely online kind of world. And so I would just say, if you really wanted to max out your potential, isn't that

there are an argument to say, actually, put down the testosterone, put down the camera, put down the internet, go move to some weirdo parish in the middle of nowhere and find some nice... I've seen, like, not good-looking guys, Mary, like, definitely hotter girls, and have, like, a nice family, and have a kind of life that isn't even considered on the table in our modern culture. I, you know, I'm sure that we probably agree on most of this stuff, like, what's ideal, like, you know, being super in touch with your faith. But at the end of the day, all the stuff that you're talking about is just idealism.

It's not realistic. I'm telling you, I've seen people do it. Yeah, and I regularly see people do it because I travel a lot. I don't, I wouldn't suggest that that's really the norm. I don't see people do it in Brooklyn. I don't see, I grant you in a lot of the country, you don't see it.

But there are places where it happens, and there are communities where it happens. So don't we have to consider that? But from a sociological lens, just we're looking at it. at an entire society and the direction we're moving. So, you know, if that's still the case now, which, you know, you've probably seen more than me, you've got a few more years on me. But that's certainly the direction society's headed is towards what I'm talking about. I think

you would agree with me there. I would. I totally agree. And I don't think that's a good thing. But I would, in that case, I would say, why would you swim with the stream? Wouldn't you maybe swim against the stream or go jump into a different stream? No, because that's, that's not a realistic outcome, right? Is it not? To what, take away all the liberties that we've granted women to sort of, you know, cause a lot of detriment to society? To oppose, to use this example, like to oppose feminism. I'm not saying we're going to take away the right to vote, but I'm saying why? Well, you know, listen, we got to repeal a few more amendments before we get to the 19th, but look, interesting conversation for another time. Let's say, forgetting about that,

Let's just say other liberties that women are supposedly have. The liberty to promiscuity because of hormonal birth control. I would discourage that. I think it's good to discourage that. You probably can't pass a law because of a couple of Supreme Court cases, but I would strongly discourage that. The liberty to go just like randomly date a bunch of dudes in some city, I would strongly discourage that.

The liberty to put off getting married and having kids so that you can go do spreadsheets at the widget factory, I would strongly discourage that. So to answer your question, And I guess the answer is, yes, I would discourage a lot of what passes for modern liberty. Oh, no, absolutely. Like, I don't think that the modern world is one that I like to live in at all. But I'm simply stating that you might as well adapt to the times instead of just, like, you know, doing all these copes, like political activism.

When this is just the way that the world is going to go and the way that's going to continue to go, people have been trying to, you know, turn the times since the sexual revolution started to happen in the 70s. And look where that's got us, right? So if... But hold on, hold on. Everything you've been saying is all this, like, very manly, take control of your destiny, even so much so that you're an ultra-euvre. Yeah, so why can't we do it on a political level? That sounds kind of, excuse the phrase, gay to me, to say, like, oh, there's nothing we can do.

Like, the elites just control us. We can't do anything. That's a little bit silly to compare, like, starting a massive political movement rather than, like, individual action. that's a horrible comparison. Why is that? Politics is just a bunch of individuals working together. Because there's a lot of bad actors that don't want to see that occur. So it's not like you're just fighting against, like, nothing.

You're fighting against people who deliberately want society to go. There are a lot of people who don't want individuals to flourish either. Right. So, I mean... How do you divorce the two? My view, my... I don't have a liberal view of human beings. I don't think that we're just like individuals in isolation.

I think we're the political creature, we're social animals. We live together. together, we are inclined naturally to live in an ordered society. And so I think doing politics is the most basic, one of the most basic human impulses. And so therefore, it's crazy to me to hear, well, you should go improve yourself, but don't try to improve your community. Yeah, because it's a cope. It's not going to happen, right? Where have... Has it not? I mean, look at the conservative movement over the years. It's gone to absolute, you know, so conservatives... There have been wins and there have been losses. I

I'll give you an example on the sexual revolution. In 1973, we got this stupid Supreme Court decision, Roe v. Wade, that said you could kill babies. It was in the Constitution. And everyone said, you're never going to overturn that. It's impossible to overturn it. It's a cope if you think you're going to overturn. You guys are wasting your time. You're wasting your breath.

Took 50 years. And guess what happened? We overturned it. Okay, now it's a state-to-state thing, right? So abortion is still very much on the table. Yeah, but that's moving the goalposts. Big win. You know what I mean?

It's a huge win. To say that there's a federal constitutional. right to kill babies. And then everyone says you're never going to overturn that. Your guys are idealistic and ridiculous. And then we do it. We actually do overturn it. And everyone says, well, never mind, that wasn't that important anyway. No, now you've got to fight another battle. I agree with that. But I don't know. I noticed the libs don't seem to think that political activism is useless. They seem to think it's very useful and they've achieved a lot because of it. Well, I'm personally an accelerationist. So I'd like to see where things are going to go because I could only assume that

the dating market is going to get worse and worse, and that's going to probably cause people to harbor some sort of resentment, and it's going to have a lot of, like, intergender issues. Again, I hope this doesn't happen, but that's just kind of what I speculate will occur. Well, hold on. Because when you say you're an accelerationist, I find that very interesting, accelerationism meaning, look, we got all these social problems

and things are, they're getting even worse, and so you know what, let's just immunize the eschaton, let's bring it up to the end, let it all fall apart, and then we can finally rebuild something good. Yeah. But so you say I'm an accelerationist on the one hand, but you say, I don't want that to happen on the other. That would be, that's a contradiction. Yeah, I mean, I'm talking about the resentment. I'm not talking about.

But that's part of the acceleration is like we all go to war with each other and everything. Well, just because I, you know, want that to happen doesn't mean I are really have a lot of, you know, hope that the two genders, like have a lot of conflict, you know, but I hope that we can accelerate to the point where we could, you know, you know, start to rebuild the society in the dating market because it's only going to slip further and further, I think the conservative movement to a large degree is a complete joke. And I would say that... For a lot of... A long time, I agree with it. I'd say that now it's probably stronger than it was a few years ago, but largely a joke. You should have seen it before Trump.

Yeah. You should have seen it before Trump. So if, you know, the stuff that I'm talking about really doesn't have... I would say it's probably more of a right-wing thing. and theory, but there's really no political party attached to it. And if it is the right, that's supposed to be, you know, protecting us from slipping into this degeneracy that we're talking about. We're in the degeneracy. There's no protecting us from slipping. We've been in the degeneracy for a long time. Going further, and if that's the right job, I don't really have a lot

of hope. That's why I'm someone who's saying, yeah, individualism is good, adapt to the society that we live in, because that's the highest chance of success. Adapt to this, but hold on, you're saying the society is getting more degenerate. Adapt to the society. But also don't be degenerate. You see the conflict between those things. Who's saying don't be... You're saying to be degenerate.

I'm just saying it's idea... You know, what you're talking about, about degeneracy and, like, you know, the hypergamy stuff, it's not ideal, but I'm saying that's just how it is. Oh, interesting. Okay, I misunderstood your point.

So you're saying, look, the conservative movement has had all these failures totally agree and we've fallen into this degenerate society and that sucks totally agree that's just how it is and but but then your answer is so you know if you can't beat them join them basically essentially yeah it's kind of kind of doomer well is it i mean like really it just seems like such a cope to be like you know going to all these political action events is like your average guy Like, maybe you have this perspective because you've got your own show and you've got a lot more influence over the way that the country goes than just your average guy. But if you're just like one of the average viewers who's got no voice who could risk potentially losing their job for saying the wrong thing in politics, I'm saying that they shouldn't really be concerning themselves with trying to change the tide of society.

Well, look, people have a voice in as much as they vote. they have more of a voice than ever because of social media and new media. Until they get banned and fired from their jobs. Yeah, there was a lot of that. And then we stopped a lot of that. I mean, Elon helped stop that when he bought Twitter. Still happens. But it happens to some degree.

It's gotten a lot better. And I guess my point is if this individualism and political quietism from the right is what led us into this mess in the first place because it emboldened and empowered the left to screw up the whole society, from dating elsewhere, then wouldn't doing more of the same only make things worse? Well, was it really individualism that caused the huge decline in the right? I'm just talking about from like a self-improvement perspective and just overall, like, context of how you should live your life as a man. And, you know, maybe you're right about that.

But I just don't think it's necessarily a bad thing to just advocate for your average person to only concern themselves with their own? To me, that's the big cope. I agree with many of the observations you're making about the society, but the big cope, you heard this with, like, the libs when they were trying to push the trans stuff and they were upset that some of us were pushing against it.

And they said, how does this affect you? You're walking out, it's basically your society is Sodom and Gomorrah, and they say, well, how does it affect you if I decide I want to, like, castrate little kids in the school and redefine marriage and slaughter babies and sacrifice them to mulmobes. log and how does that affect you? You just mind your own business. And I think, how about I don't mind

my own business? How about, actually, how about my business is my community? And I have a right to enforce standards and norms that are good and traditional and conducive to flourishing. And how about you mind your own business? But the problem is you see what you just did there is you spiked your cortisol, thinking about transgender. Will that max anything on me? No, that's a very catabolic hormone. So if you're advocating for people to, you know, go around and, you know, concern themselves with these issues or go to, you know, like, school, like, board conferences and, like, you know, be outspoken about this. That's just largely going to be unproductive. And, you know, it might seem like a dumer mentality or, like, you know,

you're just going to let society go to shit. It's like on an individual level, it's just, it's not going to be productive. But on a political, right. Well, look, it's been productive in as much as, at least the trans thing, there's so many other problems. Well, the way that's... The trans things, though, we've kind of won on that. Well, the way that I see trannies is, like, that's one more person to mug once they brutally butcher themselves, transitioning, you know? But isn't, you know, I see that. Like, go descend yourself.

Like, that's fine with me. Because you're ascending yourself. Yeah, I'm going to ascend, and this person is going to be a comical botched job, you know? So, like, that just seems like very logical to me. Like, yeah, go be a tranny. Like, now I maug you to death. Oh, now isn't, yes, I see it. isn't that a bit cruel to that?

Like, for instance, my view of the trainee, people think I want to commit a genocide on the trannies. In fact, media outlets have written that, which is totally ridiculous. My opposition to the transgender ideology is that I think it's false, it's bad for everyone involved, and at a very real level, I love trannies. That's the part that's gonna get clipped.

But I love the trannies in the sense that they're my countrymen, their fellow human beings, they're children of God. I don't want them to do things that are bad for them. I don't want to spike the football or spike my cortisol and just mug all over them. I want them to live lives that are good and flourishing. And so I also don't want them to scandalize whole generations of kids into thinking they can be the opposite sex

and screw up my society further. So there's a little bit of a selfish aspect, but there's a common good view, and there's even charity for the other person. Don't we have to have charity for these other people, even if they're descended trannies? No, not necessarily. Think about all the time that you've spent throughout your entire life talking about trannies. What if you were to dedicate all that time to bone smashing? You know, imagine where you could have been. Is that a euphemism? No, bone smashing. What is bone smashing? That sounds like what the trannies do. No, it's where you induce micro fractures. And this principle follows wolf's law that a bone is going to grow back stronger, you know, after you reduce these localized microtramas. So you're, you know, you do these localized microtramas. So you're, you know, you know, you're going to lay in your bed to brace your head for CTE,

and you're going to bone smash. You're going to lay in your bed and brace your head for... CTE isn't that like brain damage? Well, no, so that's why you lay in your bed. And that's going to grow your facial bones. You smash, like you punch yourself in the face? Yeah. If I punch myself in the face,

I'm going to get like a nice, mute-up jaw. Yeah, according to Wolf's Law, right? Do you punch yourself in the face? Yes. How hard? Like reasonably. Just your fist. Yeah.

I used to see he's a hammer, but my parents would go into my bathroom and take it away. So that was... You would hit yourself in the head with a hammer. Yeah, I know. It sounds a little silly. Like, people are going to think I'm trolling, but it's all, like, on YouTube. Like, you could find this stuff. I almost don't want to ask.

Did it work? Yeah, absolutely. Yes. Yeah, bone smashing is legit. I mean, you even take a look at, like, UFC fighting. like their brow ridge over their career, or x-rays of their shin, and there's massive amounts of hypertrophy in their bones.

Is that, are there any downsides to hitting yourself in the head with a hammer? No. No, as long as you have proper bracing, you're gonna be fine. But that's what I mean. That's just like one example of something that you could do instead of political activism. It's bones back.

You know, I'll tell you, sometimes in my political activism, I would rather hit myself in the head with a hammer. Without question. Yeah, so that's what I mean. Like, just dedicating your time to ascending as an individual instead of, like, coping and cortisol spiking about, like, liberalism and trannies. It's like, that's just what's going to happen anyway.

Like, people are retarded for the most part, and they're going to... You sound like that Indian guru in the Midwest. So democracy is the government for the people, but the people are... Right. So it's like, I see all, like, these conservative commentators trying to, you know, stop people from, like, doing drugs. And, you know, weak-willed people, it's just kind of like Darwinism. It's, like, natural selection.

To me, if people want to be, like, addicted to opioids, like, I don't think we should be spending, like, taxpayer resources to, like, build, like, you know, addiction clinics and try to pass legislation. We should just let them kill themselves if they want. Like, essentially, yeah. I mean, and you've got to just focus on, on, on, you know, maximizing yourself as an individual. But what if I, what if maximizing myself as an individual in my perception involves growing

in charity? And what if it involves ameliorating the political and social conditions in my country? And what if part of that means that I want to help other people instead of letting them kill themselves with opioids? Well, then I would, I would say that that's going to be a very futile cope. You don't think you can help people? You don't think anything can improve? The Bolsheviks are about to overrun Iberia. I don't think that I can do anything.

I don't think that anyone watching could do anything. I don't think it's likely that even someone with as big of a reach as you can necessarily influence. Could Donald Trump do something? That's even tough to say with just like the blockade you face with like, you know, all the different branches of power. Let me use an example. Could we have, just hypothetically, the largest demographic transformation in the history of the world take place over 60 years in the United States from 1965 onward, and then have an entirely open border that floods the country with some 3 million people per year foreigners, highest percentage of foreign born ever in the United States? And then could a guy come into office and even with all of the obstacles in his way preside over an immigration regime that gets rid of two million of those. people in a single year. Could that happen? Yes, obviously that did happen. That would seem to be a... Two million out of how many? Two million out of... Well, it's unknown, but it's anywhere from,

I don't know, 15 to 30 or something. Right, so exactly. In one year, it's pretty good. 60 years of problems. Two million in one year, that's pretty good. Yeah, but I mean, like this next election cycle, who's going to win? It's going to be Gavin Newsome against J.D. Vance because J.D. Vance is subhuman and Gavin Newsomogs. Is J.D. Vance is subhuman? Yeah. What makes you say that? He's got a very short total facial width to height ratio. He's obese, very recess side profile, whereas Newsom is like 6-3 Chad. So, JD's very tall. J.D. has got to be 6-2-6-3.

Gavin Newsom obviously mocks him to death. So you're a Newsom head. You prefer Newsom to the vice president. I'm just telling you who's going to win. Do you prefer him, though? Um, honestly, it's, it's hard to say, but Newsom being that much more of a maugger. And, like, having a president who's, like, fat, and especially that young. You think he's, I don't think he's fat. I would say he's a bigger guy, for sure.

It's just, like, it's just embarrassing. Like, how are you fat and you expect to, like, lead a country? You can't even be in shape, you know? So you, like, you got, let's say you got to vote. It's 2028. I'm voting for Gavin Newsome. You're voting for Gavin Newsom. You can't be that subhuman.

So you... Hold on. You got... All right, well, this actually is of a thread with the whole conversation. Because you look at these two candidates. You have Gavin Newsom, worst governor in the country. I think we would all agree.

Destroyed his state. Let its main city burn to the ground because of his incompetence. Is a personal, complete, derelict, liar, degenerate. But he is good-looking. I'll grant you that he's good-looking. And it kind of looks like Patrick Bateman, American Psycho.

And then you have this vice president to President Trump, the transformative right-wing president in our lifetimes, who, do you support Trump or no? Yeah. Okay. So you got, and you got this vice president, a handpicked by Trump, who is extremely intelligent, very right-wing. I think he's a pretty good-looking guy.

I don't know, maybe you, I guess you disagree. But is all these things, checks all these boxes, would have, all these great policies. And regardless, you're going to pick the pro-mass migrant, pro-trans, pro-mur-the-babies, pro-burned the cities to the ground, pro-B-L-M Democrat, because he's skinnier than the conservative vice president. 100 times over. Yeah.

All right, I can't argue with that, I guess. It just goes to show, like, who you are as a person. And I think it does. Not to mention, you look at, like, J.D. Vance, I'd say he's probably more concerned with, like, doing trips to India and, like, you know, taking pictures in front of the Taj Mahal than actual politics.

Is he? I don't know. I think he's done that like once. He's done actual politics for, I don't know, like a decade. Well, the guys, and regardless of my opinion, I'm just telling you that because of the halo effect and the subconscious bias, really does it. Politics is not about like good policy anymore. It's just about like rhetoric and presentation. That's like a very like obvious thing in my opinion. Is that true? I would say so. I would say that if it weren't for Trump's rhetoric in charisma, he wouldn't have won in 2016. You don't think his policies, this is where I totally disagree. Most people who vote for Trump don't even know what he stands for. I don't think he's funny. It gives nearly enough credit to voters, and I think it ignores trends in the West. Yeah, I think he won because people are sick of the mass migration. I think he won because people are sick of elite economic policies that don't benefit working Americans who sold him out.

I think he won because people don't like the weird sex stuff and making everything gay and trans. I think he won. The consensus view in the liberal media is that Trump won, despite his policies, because, he had fiery rhetoric and I think that's total BS. I think he had popular policies. I think that's why the Brexit passed. I think that's why right-wing parties are rising in Europe. I think voters are a lot smarter than you're giving them credit. I think if Trump were to run for the opposing party and Hillary were to run for the conservative party, I think we would have had Trump win as a Democratic. That's like saying if up were down. I mean, how do you,

what does that even mean? You're saying just based on looks. Yeah, just based on charisma, looks, and Gavin Newsom absolutely blows Vance out of the water with all of these things. So it doesn't really matter. And you would vote... Even if you go with that premise, you're saying that's so persuasive you would vote for him. You, who is ostensibly a right winger, you'd vote for one of the most left-wing and incompetent governors in the country because you think he's sexier. No, that's not really what I'm saying at all. I thought that's what you said. You'd vote for Newsom 100 out of 100 times.

Well, because it just... And also, Vance, it's... isn't really like someone who's deserving of any right winger's vote. I mean, like policy-wise. So, so you actually have like a real personal problem with Vance. It's not just that you don't like, you don't think he's as hot as conducive. I think when you phrase it like that, it like tries to make it into like somewhat of a attack mechanism and like call it looks maxing like homosexual. Oh, you're just like voting for him because he's sexy. It's like, no, we're talking about, you know, subconscious biases and like the halo effect. No, no, no, but I'm sorry. When you said, you said, you said, uh, the vice versa. Vice President doesn't deserve a right-wingers vote. So now we're not talking about looks.

Now you're talking about, you have a deeper issue with advance. You know, yeah, but, you know, that's not really something that we would have time to discuss today. We have plenty of time. Yeah, but I'm more of like a looks max guy rather than a policy guy. So you don't want to talk about it? Not necessarily.

But what I'm simply... I wonder why. What I'm simply stating is that, you know, this is a subconscious bias across a society voters and I'm predicting that Gavin Newsom is going to win because he is objectively more harmonious facially and it just kind of tries to take away. I wonder if that's a bit of cope for these deeper reasons that you don't want to talk about. What? That I don't like J.D. Vance? Well, yeah, I mean, because you're saying it's all about looks, but it's actually about these deeper reasons, but I don't

want to talk about these deeper reasons. Well, we could talk about J.D. Vance. I think J.D. Vance would he be a better candidate and probably closer to me in terms of policy than Gavin Newsom? Yes, but he's just not going to be good enough to be deserving. I think the right has kind of let down the voters for the longest time. So I think I'm, I don't really think that right winger should just give support to these jesters who continue to underdeliver on their promises. You know, just let the Democrats win. That's kind of what I'm I'm talking about in terms of just like why I don't support Vance as a voter. But so you're saying no, they shouldn't vote for any Republican.

The right winger should not vote for the Republican. Not until the right actually wants to do the things that they are promising. So is there a candidate you would prefer? I assume you don't actually want to vote for Newsom. Maybe you do. Maybe you are a Democrat. No. Okay.

So then who's a right winger you want to vote for? Hmm. Or maybe there isn't one. No, yeah. There really isn't one. That's, it's kind of doomer, isn't it? So now you're saying,

if you're a real hardcore gigacad right winger, you should let the Democrats rape your country. Well, yeah, you kind of have to. Like, that's the accelerationist mentality because, like, look, what is the right going to do other than just, like, a small win here and, like, you know, maybe overturn Roe v. Wade on, like, a federal level,

but abortion is still allowed, like, state to state. So it's like it really doesn't do anything. It's like, if these people are just going to, like, continue. Maybe you deport two million people. Maybe you restore a 28 million more, right? So until these people actually want to make changes that matter, right? I think two million people matters. I think, uh, doesn't it in a country of how many people? Like, what do we? 330 million or so. Exactly. So it's like this is, we're not really making any progress here. So for, for the RNC to just demand voters to continue to show up, uh, for what? Really? It's just that that's the code.

Right. That's what I'm simply advocating for. Until, like, the policies change and, like, the rhetoric is a little better. How would the policies change? This is what I'm confused about is, had a Democrat one, just used this past year, had a Democrat one, we would get, just judging by Biden's policies, as Biden's vice president was running, you would add three million illegal aliens to the country. Because Trump won,

not only do you not add three million, you lose two million. So now you have a net change of five million potential foreigners who would be in the United States over the course of one year. And you're saying, yeah, it's not good enough. Sorry, Brett. It's not.

It really is not good enough. So what are you doing? What am I doing? Yeah. I'm realizing that society is going one direction, and I'm trying to improve myself as much as possible so that I could succeed financially so that I can improve my status and improve my quality of life. Do you think you will succeed if your country goes to hell in a handbasket? Yeah. Yeah.

So, like, what are we talking about here with? the immigration, it's like I'm not competing in the job market with illegal aliens or Mexico, so it really doesn't concern me. Well, who are you competing with? Other people on social media. Right. You're in this particular field. Okay. But if your country is no longer safe, if your country is no longer conducive to raising a family, if your country is no longer the global reserve currency such that your wealth is not quite as secure as it's been in the past. Isn't your personal success precarious? Well, things need to get so bad that people are just like, okay, we're fine with having,

like, the National Guard in major cities, things like that. And that's not going to occur unless people just, like, stop voting for Republicans who just, like, maybe slow down, like, you know, the progress of the left a little bit across a few elections, but they're not doing enough. What's very interesting, I totally disagree with everything you're saying, but what's very interesting about it is by saying, look, I not only am I apathetic, I want the Democrats to win, because they're going to be bad, because they're going to screw up the country,

and then we'll have a revolution, it'll be good again. Right. What's interesting about that to me is it reflects something quite real, and I think quite understandable, which is the alienation, especially among young men, especially among young right-wing men, from the country that at very high levels in popular media and government has told that group of people that they suck for like 30 years. That I totally resonate with.

So how widespread do you think that alienation is? I would say that the reason that I have the success I do is because it's almost in every kid my age in the same demographic, as people are tired of, you know, being banned on social media, people are tired of... Being called toxic. Right. You know, the government not advocating for them whatsoever. So I would say that it's probably more common than not.

Yeah, I kind of agree with that. But I don't know, I'm a little more hopeful about it. Like when I talk to young Zoomers all around the country, I find they're much more right-wing than they were even 10 years ago, which I like. I think they're much more serious about the political situation. I think they're grappling with real issues that previously they were afraid to talk about because they didn't want to be called racist or whatever.

So I find all of that to be encouraging. I guess I come to the opposite conclusion that you've come to, which is, I don't know, what if we got like 12 more years of this kind of government that we're getting now? If you get 12 more years of deporting 2 million people a year, by my calculation, that's 24 million people. If you get 12 more years of judge,

than I see much more success on the abortion issue. If you get 12 more years of declining support for same-sex marriage, for instance, and maybe a restitution of the meaning of marriage, that seems pretty good. If you get 12 more years of ending affirmative action, which the Supreme Court also recently did in college admissions, and actually punishing the schools who still insist upon

discriminating against, especially white guys, Asian students too. If you just keep stacking those wins, it seems to me not unreasonable that you have a much better country. It's very unreasonable. I mean, do you honestly believe that J.D. Vance is going to be the next president? Yeah. Yeah, I do. You actually believe that. It's contingent on the economy doing well. But yeah, I do. I do. I would probably bet every lesson I own that Gavin Newsom would win. You think, first of all, you think Newsom will win the primary.

Yeah, absolutely. I think he's going to be the next president. You think the Democratic Party? Simply due to the mug. You think that, you think the Democratic Party is going to, I grant his mugging. You think they're going to nominate over a black woman, Kamala wants it, over a gay guy, Buttigieg wants it, over Gretchen Whitmer, whatever she is. You think they're gonna nominate a good-looking white man? Yeah, because they realize we're not there yet as a country. Like, no one wants to vote for like a woman.

You know, there's still a lot of like moderate Democrats who are just like, okay, this is silly. So they probably- You think there's a lot of moderate Democrats? Yeah. I don't see a lot of moderate Democrats. Who think that we're not there yet to like put women forward?

as a, like, that's... They've nominated women for their last two. Yeah, they've nominated, but they haven't won. Right. So I agree, they're wrong. I'm just wondering what makes you think they've realized that. I think the DNC is going to be like, okay, we're just not here yet. I think they still think that, you know, a woman should be president, which is absurd to me.

But they're going to be like, okay, this is not where the voters are yet. We're going to put ahead Gavin Newsome. Interesting. Look, maybe he could... That would just be basic strat, and that would be like... I agree that would be a reasonable basic strategy. I don't think they do that. I don't think that a competent party apparatus

that wasn't totally beholden to its most lunatic fringe would have, one, even pushed out Joe Biden, two, thought Kamala Harris had a chance, three, thought Hillary Clinton had a chance, four, run Jasmine Crockett for Senate, five, think that AOC is going to take a Senate seat in New York or run for president herself. Well, she's at least a little better looking than Kamala.

She looks maxed? Not looks max, but she's got Kamala B, that's for sure. So Kamala is not only a woman, but she's an ugly one at that. So the DNC's got a, they've got a no by now. I think they're not gonna make the same mistake that they did, which is why Gavin will definitely get the primary. You ever see young Hillary, like pictures of younger Hillary? She wasn't too bad.

Can I say something that's gonna get everyone met? I think she actually looked, by political standpoint. I think she actually looked pretty good, young Hillary. Not good enough to stop Bill Clinton from cheating on her. Well, Bill had some problems. You know, I mean, Bill's got a particular proclivity. Well, I mean, dude, he's just like, I feel like Bill Clinton did probably the same thing that most people would do if they were president to slay in the Oval Office.

Well, look, there have been plenty of adulterous presidents who slayed, plenty of them. Largy Democrats. JFK, of course, FDR, all these guys. You think, wait, hold on, that's good to, no, it's not good to slay. Well, dude, that's like achieved. If you're a married man, that's not good to slay. Well, that's like achieving pinnacle status and leveraging it. So I think that's, like, kind of the point of, like, status maxing.

You think that turning an intern and that particular intern into a human humidor in the Oval Office is status maxing? Yeah. Really? Yeah, that's like pinnacle. I don't think, I don't think, I think that was embarrassing. That's like the textbook definition of, like, status maxing. It's like you become the president and then you like can slay whoever you want in the oval office. I find it kind of degenerate and evidence that one is not in control of one's own

base passions. I find it unmanly even. Yeah, I think being like a prisoner of lust is like, yeah, I've seen like a lot of philosophers. Yeah, it's kind of like pornified and gooning and all those things you said earlier were bad. No, it's not like comparing like slaying like actual women to born, I wouldn't necessarily agree with you. What if it's what if it's fornication, or sterile, like contraceptive sex, which is in many ways indistinguishable from sodomy. What if it's, I don't know, I consider all that to be kind of emasculating, effeminate behavior?

No, I wouldn't say so. You don't think so. I think that's kind of just like how the world is these days. But I think the world is degenerate and effeminate. So I guess I agree with you on that point. It is degenerate, but it's like, okay, if we're living in the society that rewards, like, hypergamy and rewards having a lot of sexual partners and slang and you're like the top

echelon of men you're the president of the United States you mog and you're not taking advantage of that that just seems like a missed opportunity to me do you think bill Clinton's life improved because he did that thing with monica in the Oval office or do you think his life was worse because of it I think it was worse because he didn't double down and just say, like, exactly what I'm saying now. I think he still would have gotten impeached, even if he got up there and mocked and said, I totally did it. Yeah, dude, I'm telling if he would have doubled down, I think people would find that to be funny. They would find it to be funny. I think he still would have been impeached. In fact, I'm certain he would have been impeached.

I think you're underestimating the double down pill, you know, quite literally. But we might never know because of the counterfactual. But I guess to your point, look, yeah, the world rewards a bunch of degenerate behavior. We totally agree with that. Principalities and powers and spiritual weakness in high places govern the world, and the evil prosper often, and the good are, you know, persecuted. That's all true. But like, we live in a world that crucified Christ, right? So is that a recommendation of doing the same ourselves?

Hmm. I don't really think that that would be a compromise. that would be a comparable thing. Like, how can you make that comparison? You're saying at a very basic level, this world rewards vice and sin. Therefore, we should sin and commit vice seems to be a non-sequitur from that

because we know that those things are bad. And we know that this world rewards bad things. Yeah, yeah, I think that unless society was ready to rebuild, it's very much a cope to try to go against it and go against its ways, even if it's wrong. Go along with the world. That's the message. That's like the opposite.

You know, it's funny, man, I was expecting, when you were coming, I don't know much about, obviously I don't know much about looks maxing and all this stuff. But I was expecting your thesis to be the opposite of that, basically to say, no, go against the grain, swim upstream. The world is gonna make you descend and you gotta ascend and you gotta ascend, and you gotta improve your sense.

But you're saying, no, just, man, whatever, just go along with it. Yeah, go along with, you know, society in the direction it's taking. But make sure you position yourself in the most optimal way possible to take advantage of this. It's just about positioning. Society's going to go the way that society's going to go. How are you positioning yourself as an individual, right? Because I could sit here and talk about all these big ideas and like, we need to do this and try to start a political movement. But I just am a realistic guy.

I know it's cope. I've seen a million people attempt the same thing. But we've also seen successful, well, political movements, social movements, religious movements. We've seen over the course of history things sometimes get worse, things sometimes get better. You know, I think to use a really based example, something I started to mention earlier,

the Bolsheviks were about to overrun Iberia. They were about to take over Spain. And there's this guy, Francisco Franco, maligned in some quarters, but this guy Franco cobbles together a bunch of people, many of whom don't disagree, some of whom are of a kind of dubious character. And he cobbles them together to get the communists out of Iberia. These were people who were raping nuns and killing priests, who would have destroyed the continent, given the Soviet Union, a major foothold in Western Europe. And they got stopped because people weren't huge black-pilled domers and thought they could actually do something.

and indeed prayed to God, by the way, for grace to overcome daunting odds. And they didn't just throw their hands up in the air. Isn't that, if we're trying to give the most based example possible for real right-wingers who feel alienated from decadent liberal society, doesn't that counter your argument? Well, that's more of a realistic thing. If the right wing wasn't such a joke, I would be doing a show right alongside you,

advocating for these different things. but I think the entire system is just such a letdown that until... You're disappointed by Trump? I'm disappointed by the entire right wing. Led by Trump. I don't necessarily think that it's exclusively Trump, or I'm not...

Not exclusively, but he's the president. He's the head of it. Yeah, I personally feel like the right wing has not done what it's promised or provided any sort of hope like, you know, maybe Franco did in the... that you just used. You know, obviously that's gonna get clipped up

and I'm a fascist. It's gonna be that clip and I love trannies. Those are the two that are gonna go out. Oh, yeah, now I'm a fascist and now you love traney. Yeah, that's, which is worse? I don't know. I don't know which one's gonna be worse on the internet. Yeah.

So, on your individual point, maybe just to bring it to a wrap with all of these observations you're making, saying that from your view of looks maxing and how man should, live in society. You say, look, the guy who's going to overdose on opioids, let him. It's fine. Yep. Look, the pro-trans, you know, pro-baby murder, guy who burns his cities down, Gavin Newsom, good, I want him to be president. Let's hurry it up. You know, I don't have time for a girlfriend. I don't want to think about other people. I want to do my stream and get wealthy and famous and

look even better, smash myself in the head with a hammer. one thing that would appear to be missing from your ideology is concern for other people do you think that's unfair um yeah and i haven't really clarified my position is i i care deeply about the struggles of the average male being unable to even find like a romantic partner like you know men 18 through 21 years old two-thirds of them haven't had sex in six months. It's like... Good, they shouldn't. They should get married.

Before they have sex. I'm not saying they get married at 18, but they should wait to have sex to get married. But that's just showing. It's not even something that is... They're trying that they're able to do, right, in this degenerative society because of how hypergamous it is. And not too long ago, before I was ascended, like earlier this year, like, I was in the same position of, you know, the average everyday male working job, maybe not as good.

looking and so so i i absolutely am very empathetical of that struggle and i think that that's something that needs to be advocated for more than any political movement right just but that would be it wouldn't that be a political political political public political just means public right just means you do things together political and in the context of like the stuff that we were just talking about i think that men's issues are are largely overlooked but i'm saying for young men to succeed they need to put themselves in the forefront and all the other stuff about, you know, society, the direction it's taking, trannies in school, that needs to take a backseat for their individual struggle because they're really not doing well. Men are doing worse than they ever

have. Yeah. And almost every metric. And the only way to overcome that is just focusing on oneself to the maximum, doing whatever it takes to ascend. And there's no place for any of the stuff that, you know, you're talking about in that mentality. Charity? There's no place for charity in that mentality? I guess my argument is you can't possibly improve yourself as a person if you don't have charity. To take St. Paul as an example, I think you could have every single virtue.

You can be the most mugging, looks maxed giggy super Chad in the world, doing weird stuff in the Oval Office. And if you lack charity, you have nothing. You're a clanging gong. But how could you be charitable if your disposition is so terrible in life? You've got no money, you've got no time because you work for three jobs? You could have two cents to work together. You could give one of them away, and that would be an act of charity.

And in fact, that's an example that our Lord uses in the Gospels. Like, come on, like, on a realistic note, like you're not going to be capable of charity. We're sure anybody's capable of charity. Okay. Charity is love for another person for their own sake. Okay, but that's it. We're talking about, okay, fair enough. What I'm simply saying is that, you know, people need to be doing whatever they can to position themselves in a way that maybe they will be capable of the spirituality that you're talking about.

But I think that people working three jobs just to make ends meet because of the economy, people who are unable to find a romantic partner, maybe we focus on the spiritual aspect after we've overcame like this horrible position. I'll do it later. I'll be charitable later, but not... Well, I'm just saying if you want to improve yourself, I'm not saying you shouldn't look... Yeah, it's good to look good and to dress well and to try to improve yourself in all manner of ways and get smarter and whatever. But if you ignore charity, concern for others, which is expressed in all these sorts of ways,

I mean, even to say, I care about young men's issues, but if they want to OD on opioids, guess who's OD on opioids? It's men. You know, you say, well, forget about them. Who cares? I'm going to focus on numero uno over here. To me, it just seems if you ignore that part, you're ignoring the key. You're saying, you know, I'm going to bake a loaf of bread, and I'm going to have all the ingredients except the flour. What I'm saying is I care about young men, but if people decide to go that route of being drug addicts, it's going to take up my time as well as anyone else who I'm calling upon, you know, to join my political movement.

It's going to take up their time to try to fix this issue of people who don't want to help the people. themselves. So people who want to help themselves and people who genuinely want improvement, I'm all for that. I'm like, okay, what can we do? That's why I make, like, YouTube videos, like informational content, like how do you looks, max? So that's why I do that. But you've got to want to help yourself, right? And I've got no empathy, really, for people who don't want that, like even to begin with. Yeah, that resonates. I sympathize with that view for sure. It does drive me crazy, and I think we should boot a lot of people off the welfare system who are abusing it, for instance. Yeah. But it seems to me the difference here is, you know, there's this famous

expression, God helps those who help themselves. However, that isn't really true. Like, it almost gets it a truth, but the Christian idea is that actually, no, you can't really do much of anything on your own, that actually God's grace abounds, and you have the free will to cooperate with it or not cooperate with it. So in that way, you really are free. But it's not, it's no, God offers to help everyone. And, you know, in the course of justice, none of us would see salvation. And we need to have grace for everybody. And I guess then my argument, even down from an individual standpoint is your life would, you would live a fuller, better life. You would smile more at the end of your days. And you would, I don't know, have more faith, hope and charity. If you don't just think about yourself all

the time, which I fear is what a little bit of what the looks maxing thing leads to. Well, potentially, but that's going to be person to person, like feeling good. I don't think it's person to person. I'm saying, I think that's a fact of human nature. Okay, so now I feel better. Maybe I have a little bit better well-being. What is that going to do? That's not like an immediate, like, on-paper result necessarily, whereas like increasing your looks, which is a tangible thing, or increasing your income, your status? Like, these are all very, like, tangible achievements.

In my view, the looks and the money and the status. Yeah, yeah. All of that, they can be nice, but all of those are for flourishing. To use the old Greek term, eudaimonia, you know, happiness or flourishing. That's what it's for. And I would take it one step further. We're not going to live very long on this earth.

We'll be here. know, 80 years maybe by the current standards. And then we're gonna go take a dirt nap. And I think that that's not the end of the story because we're irrational creatures with a rational soul. And so I think that there's eternity too. And that you can't, it doesn't actually make any sense to consider the natural ends of life

divorced from the supernatural ends of life because eternity is a lot longer than 80 years. Does that factor into your thinking at all or no? No. No. I'm simply focusing on... In your defense, you're 19. I didn't think about that very much.

I don't like that, you know, thing that people do, well, you're only 19, so you... When I was 19, I did not think about those things. I'll phrase it that way. Well, that's another, you know, same iteration of what you just said. Yes. But simply what I'm suggesting is that you focus on the looks, money status, increasing those, doing whatever it takes to achieve that, and after you've achieved that, your positioning will be better, what you're able to accomplish or what you're able to strive for increases

exponentially. I think you would probably agree with that. Well, it depends what you mean by accomplish, because I know a lot of very successful people on paper who are miserable, whose lives are wrecks, who have, you know, I don't know. Well, forget the anecdotes, but like, conceptually, like, if these three metrics are increased, what you're able to accomplish goes up. Would you agree with that? If you're better looking... What do you mean by accomplish? Um, like, just as I... Like, you can do... you can make more money. But that's a truism, right?

You say if you make more money, you can make more money. Yeah, duh. Your life will be better. Will it? Does money buy happiness? Well, we're talking about three different metrics. Looks, money, status. Do you think as...

Do looks, money, and status by happiness? Not necessarily, but... That's my point. That's exactly my point. As a general concept across the society, you don't think that dialing up these three metrics would cause an increase in quality of life for men? They can.

They can also make your life. They likely will. No. Let's not be disingenuous here. I'm not being disingenuous at all. Actually, you can look at the data from lottery winners. Winning the lottery usually does not improve people's lives. Often it leaves them much worse off because they don't know how to handle the money

and they get this influx from out of nowhere. And often they'll go into debt. They end up with tax problems. They end up with marriage problems. Same thing can go for looks. You're seeing a divorce rate spike because of OZempic. And though that might have some chemical aspects too, not merely just looking better. My point is, all of these worldly measures of success, they can be great.

Look, man, I'm not turning down money. Give me some more money. That sounds nice. I'm just saying there's some caution that goes with that, that should go with that. And if you, if, as you say, money, status and looks are, I guess you're saying those are the end goal? Well, what I'm simply, where I was going, but I find that ridiculous for anyone to disagree that increasing these metrics is not a positive thing. But you just said money doesn't buy happiness.

So you agreed with me previously, and now you're saying it's ridiculous to say that. I said, you know, you're potentially right. Could money buy happiness in some cases? But is it a positive thing? Could we even phrase it like that? It can be. Okay. Not always.

Right. So I'll take that. But once you've achieved this, whether you want to go the spiritual route, what you're talking about or, you know, maybe you don't choose that, maybe you're, and you choose to be, you know, maybe degenerate. It's like, that's another whole conversation. I think we should just position ourselves and then figure out what men should do after that. I guess that's the conversation, because I think you've gotten to it in that last part, which is, well, look, if you live a good life, if you do the things that are associated with a good life, after the, after the looks,

money and status. If you do the things that we consider it to be like good, I think you'll have a good life. And if you do the things that make you a degenerate, you'll have a bad life. And my point is, looks, money, and status can lead you to both. And they can lead you to more of both, actually. And so that's the part that I'm curious about. Yeah. So it's a generally positive thing to improve upon these metrics. We would just have to figure out what to do from there. And that's a very tough conversation. But if looks, money, and status, increase your likelihood of having, let's say they can increase your likelihood of having a good life, or they can increase your likelihood of having a degenerate

life, then they're not generally a positive thing. A good life in your context with being spiritual and being charitable. I'm saying there's an object, just as you say, there's an objectivity to beauty. I think there's an objectivity to the other transcendentals, truth and goodness so that goodness is not just a subjective thing you know you like chocolate i like vanilla but actually some things really are good somethings really are bad and i i would tend to agree with you a little bit that uh going the route of faith going a route of humility versus like going around slaying a bunch of checks after ascending like i'm i'm more in in your camp of course with that so we don't really disagree there yeah that's that's ideal um but you

Either way, I think just what I'm advocating for, increasing money status looks, just seems very logical, regardless of the route you choose to take. I advocate for what, you know, you're suggesting. That's just not the society we live in. So my realistic instinct is saying, okay, well, take advantage of how things are with, you know, the amount of women you're able to access now, just how it is. I don't really think that's a contradiction whatsoever. Well, if you're saying, look, yeah, Michael, I agree with you. It's once you've ascended, you shouldn't be just slaying all the time. You shouldn't be just like...

I'm saying that's better. It's better not to. Yeah, yeah, so you're saying that is better. And that, look, that's what I'll endeavor to do. And that's like, yeah, I think that's better for you. But maybe you should slay. Well, no, no, I'm saying that's better for the society. If everyone were to take that...

And the individual, or no? I think it's better for you individually, too, if you don't get a lot of sense. I think that's better for the society, whether or not that's better for the individual. That's a tough one. Do you, you've ascended, and you're going to ascend more with the jaw surgery? Uh-huh. Do you intend to use your assent to go slay much more and, I don't know, do a bunch of, like, bad stuff? Or do you say, no, it seems to me you were just telling me, no, you know, that kind of got old.

I'm not going to do that. Yeah, but I feel like I'll have to test the waters of my ascension. like after, right? Like, that's reasonable. One thing we didn't get to, I know we're running late now. You do meth. Yeah, I haven't done meth in two weeks, but I do meth, yeah. I sometimes do a little nicotine pouch, and I think I'm being like real bad. You know, I'm like, oh, I should do this, should I?

But you, I would say... You're for a good one here. The maxed version of the pouch is meth. Why do you do meth? Well, because meth is very similar in terms of its makeup to something like Adderall, but it's got a little bit better psychoactive benefits, meaning the Adderall has Lavo and Phatomene in it, which is a physical stimulant. And that's not necessarily ideal for a lot of the things that I'm doing, you know, maybe task-oriented stuff sitting on a computer. It's like, why do I need a physical stimulant? And meth also has a longer half-life. And what meth actually is. And what meth actually is, you know, maybe task-oriented stuff sitting on a computer? And what meth actually is, you know, I'm doing is dextromethanphetamine. What adderol is, 75% of it at least, is dexanphetamine. These are very similar, just the addition of the methyl group, making it longer acting. And the reason I also like it to be longer acting for a luxemax in context is stimulants

cause appetite suppressants. But you're a big guy. In other words, don't you need a lot of calories to... Well, no, I'm trying to maintain my leanness, because the leaner you are, the more angular your face. And while I do use GLP-1s, sometimes that's not enough to suppress my appetite. So I need to, you know, rely on stimulants. Or there are downsides to meth. Yeah. In high doses, it's neurotoxic, but its risk profile isn't that much higher than that of Adderall. But I think that it's not a good idea to do what I'm doing. I just really wanted to send hard when I first started. you know, getting viral on social media. So I did the math.

I advocate against stimulants. I don't think that kids should be prescribed to Adderall at the ages they are. I think that people are going to misuse their stimulant prescription more than not and more cases than not. So I'm very against it. I'm just open with everything that I do.

I'm like, yes. Now, because I've heard this from, I've heard this from very established people. They'll say, hey, I do this, that, and the other thing. but don't do what I'm doing. And I would say, if you say don't do what I'm doing, why are you doing it?

Because I have enough willpower to be able to taper off of meth. You're saying, if everyone could do it in the way you do it, it's fine, but because most people can. It's not necessarily fine. It's still neurotoxic, so maybe I traded some of,

traded like some neurotoxicity for temporary leanness to ascend really quickly because in my context, That was important to me. I was going viral on social media. I need to get lean as quickly as possible. When you talk about the neurotoxicity, do you think that will have long-term effects for you? Like end of life? Oh, no, no. Just if I were to do meth for my entire life at high doses, then yes. But you're saying there will be no, you'll live just as long as you would have lived otherwise.

Yeah, I did meth for like a month. Okay. That's true. It's true. This has all been very quick. But so you're saying all these things, the injections, the surgery, Oh, that, no, no, that won't really have an effect on my life, right? The FDA removed, like, the warning labels from testosterone, and what testosterone actually does to cause it cardiotoxicity is it increases your lipids, right? Whereas red atrutide, which is a GLP1, similar to Zempec came out, that lowers those lipids. So, you know, you're able to offset some of the aging. The only thing that really would cause me to have some sort of, um, issues of longevity is sometimes I do recreational drugs, which is bad. Just for fun? Yeah. Like what? You don't need to confess it on air?

No, no, I've said all of it on air. I've literally done like every single thing. Really? Yeah. Like acid? Yeah. You don't strike me. I had friends in college who would do. Got some in my wallet right now.

Are you on it right now? No, I'm not on any. I'm on no drugs right now. I'm fully sober. I hate... Why do you like the recreational drugs? I was always curious about acid, but I never did it.

I'm happy at it. Don't, don't do it. Acid is the worst thing ever. But it's in your wallet. Yeah, because I took it one time, like, about a month ago, and it's the worst thing ever. Psychedelics are, like, one of those leftist drug selections that really just are mind-boggling.

Yeah, what did it do? Why didn't you like it? Dude, it made me gigaparanoid. I had to lay down in my... the back of my car for like eight hours because I was like super anxious. It was like the worst experience of my life. So no, LSD, not good at all. It can really like rewire your brain and make you like a completely different person in terms of your motivation. I've heard this, yes. So yeah, no, absolutely not. Don't do LSD. I just did it for like some of the neuroplasticity

benefits and I thought it was like, oh, I'm really smart. I'm just take LSD, but not worth it. Are there any of the recreational drugs you like? Yeah, I mean, I like cocaine. I guess that goes, if you're doing meth, you might as well do a little of the Well, no, because actually cocaine is far more dangerous and there's actually a higher mortality risk than that of meth. Because, well, meth might be cardio toxic over the long term because of like the vasile constriction. You could die immediately from doing cocaine even if it's your first time. So that's the issue that you run into because you're blocking your sodium channel.

You know, you could have a heart attack and be gone, be perfectly healthy guy, and then you're dead. Right, right. And that's not even getting into it being cut with something else that's even more toxic. But right. Yeah, absolutely. So you think the recreational drugs could shorten your life. Yeah, that's arguably the worst thing that I do. And that's probably a looks man.

So that, I don't want to... That's just for fun. Yeah, yeah. I mean, cocaine, you can't eat on cocaine, but. And I do get what you're saying. It's like with the whole, everyone says, don't do this. It's just, I'm a live streamer. I stream for eight hours sometimes.

I don't want to have to, like, have people signing NDAs. Oh, like, this guy is actually, you know, someone who does cocaine. This guy says the N-word. It's like, I want to just do that on my live stream. Like, it's all out in the open. Yeah, like, I'm thinking. Do you do drugs on the live stream? Yeah. So, like, that's the only reason...

I guess I drink on streams sometimes. Yeah, we got some whiskey there. Yeah, better than the seltzer I'm having. No, so exactly. That's the problem is, like, I don't want to influence people to do these things necessarily, but it would just be too much work to try to fraud, like, me not doing them. There's a radical honesty, I guess, to that. Is there any...

So you got the jaw surgery coming up. Uh-huh. Are there any other improvements you're planning, or is it really just the jaw thing and then you're maxed out? I'm going to do a roid cycle again and get back into lifting weights. Okay. So that's going to be something I do. But jaw surgery is the main one. Jaw surgery is the main one.

But in terms of the like, jaw surgery seems more extreme than steroids. In terms of like, you know, you're not going to get your neck lengthened or something. That's it. Yeah. In terms of physical plastic surgery, that's the last one. Yeah, that's the last. Okay. And then you're done.

Yes. And then what? And then I'll continue upon improving my physique. And looks maxing, once you're, there's no looks maxed, really. You could just improve to like the highest degree possible. And then you sort of have to maintain that. Like if you do all this lux maxing, then you just get fat. It's like, so it's just about a maintenance thing. So it'll be pretty easy. One time I worked out. It was basically just once in my life. One time. One time it was in the Obama era. And I went and I said, I'm going to gain a lot of muscle. and I gained 20 pounds and I cut my body fat in half. I joined the YMCA. I was working out all the time and I was eating a lot of meat and stuff, you know, and I actually felt pretty good. I had muscle for the first time of my life.

I was like, it's kind of cool. And then I stopped working out and I just became a fat guy for a few months. Okay. Yeah, and that was it. That was the end of it. Then I lost the weight, but I didn't go work out again. That was that. Yeah, that's kind of what I'm on now. It's just maintaining my leanness, but I need to start lifting again.

So those are like the next, the next thing. next looksmaxes I've got up and coming. My producer, Ben Davies, has demanded that I, I hate this, he's demanded that I ask you to rate me on a scale of looks maxing. And I don't want to do that. I feel like that will be a painful... Yeah, I don't want to do that either. I think that's like the worst bit that's ever been introduced to my persona, my character,

is people wanting me to rate them because it's like, why? What I advocate for is improving yourself. And whether you're a five out of 10 or whether you're a seven out of 10, just try to look better. Do the things that I'm talking about to look better. But your immediate rating is meaningless. I think that was the most devastating answer

you could have just say, hey, clavicular, where would you rate me? I don't want to rate you. Please don't make me rate you. Okay, all right, that's... I mean, it also gets old when like, I quite literally have like 50 people come up to me a day. Not joking.

I'm not exaggerating. these numbers. Ask me for a rating. It gets like... Do you give it to them? No. No. You know, that's good. That's good. It's better. Let them live in... It's like people always overestimate their IQ. Everyone thinks they have 130 IQ or something, and most people do not. Yeah, I hate the IQ thing. It's a joke. Okay, now on... We've talked to a lot about men and how, and just men's issues and how men relate to... Women obviously can looks max. Is it harder or easier for women to look smacks? than men. I would say that it's probably around the same. Okay. And all the stuff that we talked about,

this is the one challenge for women, is all the things that we're talking about, you know, status and money maxing. Women really can't do that and improve in the same ways. Like if you're, if you're ugly as a woman, like it's over, you know? It's literally over. Like, you could cope your way into a corporate position and make a little bit of money, but who gives a shit? Like, if, you know, you're an ugly broad, it's over for you. You don't think a homely woman can get, maybe she's not going to get Fabio, but like, maybe she's not going to get clavicular. But she might, there's a guy out there, don't you think? Well, in this dating market, yeah.

In this guy, in this dating economy. But you get, like, the general premise of what I'm saying. Like, men could improve, like, in a lot more areas than women can. I agree. Looks matter more for women. That's just a fact of life. Yeah. Yeah. So absolutely. And I think, like, all the degeneracy that we talk about, I often say, like, I'll criticize women a lot for, like, these things, like, you know, doing only fans. But I'm like, at the end of the day, when I finish my rant, I'm like, you're just taking advantage of the society that you live in, the generation of men that this world has produced who are buying the shit. It's like, no wonder you want to make hundreds of thousands of dollars putting pictures of yourself naked.

It's like, who can blame you? Yeah. And I like for men to take accountability for that. Being the market for it. Yeah. Yeah, obviously it's both. I mean, these women are enticing men, which is wrong for them to do, and tempting them to sin. But it's like, yeah, the men are paying for it.

Yeah, I get it. Well, like, obviously women aren't going to hold themselves accountable and, like, be moral people. So it's the job of men to shape the society. Like, really? That's the Jack Nicholson line, and as good as it gets, the lady says, how do you write women so well? And he says, well, I think of a man and I take away reason and accountability. Right. That's the Jack Nicholson answer.

No, so that's quite literally the thing that I haven't really heard from many other, like, Manosphere spaces is actually like shifting the blame onto men for cuck-maxing and, like, being gooners, watching porn. Goon maxing. Like, literally, I've never heard this before, but it's our fault and it's our responsibility. Yeah, I agree. That was something, growing up in the 90s, I, you know, everyone was told porn is fine and fornication. is fine and you should just like date forever and not get married and I don't know. It was this, it was all kind of a joke.

You know, Hugh Hefner ended up getting his own TV show after decades of Playboy and it was all like fine. And that has been a big shift I've noticed, especially on the young, right, is the young men who are coming out and just saying like, no, that's all really gay and degenerate and creepy and weird and like you shouldn't look at porn. Porn is bad. Am I just, is that hopium? Or is that? Yeah, a little bit just. It is, okay.

I don't like, I don't like necessarily dumbing it down to just like, oh, porn is gay. It's like, no, porn is destroying your brain chemistry and your dopamine system. Like, it goes a lot deeper than that. Yeah. And it's being like, yeah. Well, so I like pointing to, like, the specific outcome of what people are doing. Not that it's like, because, sure, like, you know, you tell someone, oh, like, what are you watching porn? You're, you know, like, well, it's not really going to sway people.

But, you know, it's a little bit more convincing if you tell them they're utterly destroying their brain chemistry. Hmm. Yeah, that's a fair point. Yeah, it does, right, I don't know the chemistry of it, but it shoots up dopamine or something. Yeah, exactly. So that's kind of where I'm coming from is like specific reasoning, like for not doing these things.

Yeah, I remember, I saw a tweet going around, this was years ago, someone said, wait, hold on, some guys don't look at porn. What do they think about all day? Oh, yeah, yeah. Do you ever see that tweet? I've seen that in a ton of right-wing edits, yeah. Yeah, and you're like, look, maybe that was a work of fiction.

It was obviously a rage-bate tweet. It was rage-bait and everything, but it is certainly the case. I mean, even, I think you can elide fornication a little bit into it, too. Like, when you are occupying your day with just trying to chase women all the time, as many young men do. Oh, my God, yeah, those are the most cringe, like, cuck lords ever. Yeah. It's very cuck-macks. Yeah, I mean, I would say that the hunt sometimes is like fun, like going to a bar, like seeing what you could do is like, it can be like an enjoyable process, I guess you could say.

But these guys who were like on dating apps, like swiping all day, just like, man, this is the most unproductive nonsense I've ever seen. It's just silly. Yeah, I remember I was in Italy and an older Italian friend of mine said this to me. Almost that exact phrase. He goes, La Cachaille devertimento. The hunt is all like all the fun. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, literally. Yeah. And then you win and you're just like, oh, like, can this girl, like, leave my my fucking house?

Like, literally. And I'll be a joke about it. I'll be like, you gotta go right now. Well, you're saying, but even, I wonder, isn't, like, even if you don't fornicate, even if you just, like, get a girl to, I don't know, like you at a bar or something, even that is kind of fun. Do you think it's like, more, I guess it's like morally ambiguous, like, just seeing if she'll, like, get, go home with you, your house, and then you say,

ah, no, just try and try my luck. Look, that could be based, dude, I don't know. Yes, that is, I think that's very based, actually. Got to talk to a pastor about that. Yeah, I think it's bad, too. Like, it's, but you know why it's bad? Look, it's better than fornicating with the girl. But the reason it's bad is, if you want to get real,

like, Tradi-based, Plato makes the point that seduction is actually worse than rape. And this is a controversial point, of course, but his argument is that, you know, a rape, horrific as it is, is a physical violation, but seduction is also a spiritual violation. So it cuts even deeper. So that would be the argument against hunt max, being a hunt-maxing at the bar, but it's probably,

maybe a little more wholesome than going all the way. On this point, monogamy, in your life, you're 19. As you see your life down the road, let's say your late 20s or early 30s, whatever it's going to be, you get married. Are you into monogamy or no? Yes. Because there are all these guys who come out and say, no, if you want to be like real cool and there you got it. Dude, those are just like performative gestures in my opinion. I totally agree.

I think like all that, you know, rhetoric is extremely performative. I don't really think that they believe that even themselves. They're trying to convince themselves. Oh, yeah, no, absolutely. So it's just got to be the right person for you to be faithful to. And that's just where, you know, maybe there's some overlap with what I'm, those people and me, is it's just very difficult to find that. But once it's found, I think it's, would be ridiculous to suggest that monogamy is anything but the ideal.

Yeah. Yeah, no question. Yep. Clavicular, do you have, I've given you a lot of advice. Do you have any advice for me? Any advice for you? Yes. Um, yeah, so you've, you know, as we know, you've got this good producer set here.

I would, you think they're a good producer set? Yeah, like, with all the makeup and stuff, I would like... Oh, the makeup's great, yeah. I would hide, like, the recession in your under eyes with... I've had under eye bag since I was like a baby. It's crazy. It's, yeah, it's the same Sidney-Sinney syndrome, I guess we could call it. Hold on, so now I would have been, because I think she's good-looking.

So if you had said, Michael, you know, you have similar facial aspects to Sydney-Sweeney, I'd say, he's complimenting me. You're telling me I look, looks mined. Just in the orbitals. I think, but you could fix that quite easily. Okay, how? You could either do an implant, an orbital implant would be the best way. Right. Or you could just do, like, the Band-Aid on, you know, the gunshot wound method would be the concealer for, like, you know, the Chertrough region.

Okay. I like that seems easier. Yeah, a little bit. It's not as effective. All right. Okay. Making sure that your hair stays intact. I don't know how old you are.

35. Okay. So I don't know if you take finasteride already. No. Or deuteride. So starting a hair loss protocol sooner rather than later is the most important thing. Okay. Are you on one of those?

Yes. Okay. Absolutely. And there's no detriment to taking this stuff. It's amazing. So just maintaining the youthfulness, maintaining the looks as long as you can. I heard hair loss drugs sometimes can give you ED. That's like a nocebo thing, and that happens to like...

With Phanaseride, yeah, that's true. It could happen to like 1% of users, I believe I've reported. 1%'s a lot. And say you were to take finasteride and be that rare case, extremely rare where you have libido issues, it's only acute while you're taking the drug. Oh, okay. It's not, it doesn't last forever.

Okay. And plus I already have three kids, so, you know. Yeah. I mean, I'd like some more, but okay. But you could also take TRT to offset that. Okay. All right. TRT, Phanastoride, that'd be a really good place to start.

That would set you so much further ahead than your average 35-year-old guy. You really wouldn't have to do much more than that. And a GLP-1 to make dieting and saying lean extremely easy. Okay. And a GLP-P-W, what is that? That's a peptide. A GLP-1 agonist. Yeah, that's a peptide.

Okay. Ozempic, Redisutide. Those are the three main gulp-1. Should I close me? at all. I'm in, you know, they get me a nice wardrobe here. Is there any clothes maxing that goes with the looks maxing? I wouldn't be the one who could, uh... That looks as good. That's a good wardrobe. You think, no. I think that the comment section is kind of brutalized me at this time stamp.

Really? No, that's a, that's a nice shirt. Like that shirt. Yeah, Goodwill maxing. But, um... Not that. I've, I've done a little goodwill maxing. There you go. So, um, essentially, those, those things to kind of just, like, place you ahead physically of people of your age? Really go a long way. Clavicular, this has been a maximally enjoyable discussion. Thank you very much. Thank you for coming in. Appreciate it.

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