The Michael Knowles Show - Michael & The Pedophile Hunter

Episode Date: January 6, 2024

Michael Knowles sits down with Alex Rosen, the founder of 'Predator Poachers,' a group dedicated to hunting down and exposing pedophiles. This interview delves into the dangerous and necessary world of tracking sexual predators, the methods used to expose them, and the subsequent involvement with law enforcement.   Alex shares the challenges and successes of his organization's mission to protect the innocent and bring predators to justice. Michael and Alex discuss the ethical and legal aspects of this controversial yet vital work, providing an in-depth look into a world that many are unaware of, yet is crucially important.   🔔 This is an interview that sheds light on a dark but significant topic. Subscribe now to catch this and other important discussions. Share your thoughts in the comments below and join the conversation.   #MichaelKnowles #AlexRosen #PredatorPoachers #ChildProtection #ExposingPredators #LawEnforcement #PedophileHunters #CommunitySafety #EthicalDilemmas #LegalChallenges #SocialJustice #UndercoverOperations #PredatorExposure #PublicAwareness #JusticeSystem Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We had a petto in Wyoming who came to drink baby's blood. I mean, it's so common for people to be into infants and toddlers. Three of them have said they have received child porn as young as five years old. On the scale of these guys don't consider anything in the metaphysical realm to these are interdimensional demons worshipping Satan. Where do your marks fall? Well, have a seat over there. I'm Michael Knowles. I'm joined today by the head of predator poachers, and that would be Alex Rosen. Alex, thank you for coming on the show. You are the new Chris Hansen. Yes, some may call me that. Somebody call me that, yes.

So I remember 15 years ago, or whenever that show, 20 years ago, whenever that show was on, Chris Hansen would come in and get some pedophiles to show up to some house that he thought was a 10-year-old girl's house, and they'd have all sorts of disgusting, terrible things. And then he would walk out. He was like, why don't you have a seat right over there? And they'd say, I don't know. I didn't do nothing. I wasn't going to do anything with these handcuffs and guns and stuff. And then they would get arrested. Your approach is much less on the nose than that. And so as a result, just from the videos that I've seen from your channel, you get a little bit deeper into the conversation with these predators.

Yeah, absolutely. So it's a little bit different than Chris Hansen in the way that we go to the Predator's houses a lot. Like just yesterday in Georgia, we confronted a person who was out on bond for child porn charges. And we caught him with child porn again as he's facing trial already. And we just showed up at his house with no messages, no nothing. We just had a phone number that was associated with an app that we know to be child porn related. and we talked to him for like two hours, and he admitted after he got out of jail to looking at stuff as young as infants and all of that type again. And he hinted at also trading it again. So I think he could get a very long time in prison considering that there's going to be two sets of charges on him in less than a year. But yeah, that's what we do. I'd say we kind of defer more in a way because we also travel the country. At any anywhere doing this, at this point, we have an arrest in 44 different states, convictions in 30. And there's no corner of the country. We won't go. to go get somebody arrested if that's praying on children. So what got you into this? Well, I'm 23 years old now. I know I look older, but, you know, seeing... You look more mature. Right, I look more mature. Thank you. Thank you. But, you know, seeing a, you know, predators genitalia might age you a little bit and having a bald dad too.

But 19 years old, I've always wanted to be a police officer. I couldn't do that in Houston, Texas, where I'm from. At 19, you've got to be 21 to graduate the academy. At least that's what it was a couple years ago. I don't know now. And after my first year of college, I was playing college football. And, well, by playing, I mean sitting on the bench. But I was on the team, so I like to tell people that. I'll tell my kids that I was just playing and stuff. That's how I played Little League, actually.

Absolutely, absolutely. And, you know, I had like a schedule 5 a.m. to 10 p.m. every night, like, very disciplined. And when we had summer break, like three weeks off from doing anything, I just let it all go. And I started getting into these predator catching videos online. like anxiety war, Justin Payne, and Chris Hansen. And I was like, well, is it really this many pedophiles around? Because I don't know any pedos growing up, which is great. But like, you know, I was like, is it really like this bad?

Because I'm seeing like all these video, video after video. Like these people have hundreds of videos to their names. I'm like, this is crazy. So I got curious because I've always wanted to catch the bad guys. I'm like, let's see. I'm going to give this a try. And, you know, I made a fake profile of a 15-year-old boy on Grindr. And within 30 minutes, somebody wanted to meet up for sex.

it didn't really take long for me to realize that this is the biggest problem that no one really talks about. Was the profile just a picture of a young looking boy, or did it say I'm 15 years old? Well, I mean, it was just a picture of my little brother, like his face. And the profile didn't say I'm 15 years old, but like I immediately told him I was 15. Like, I figured that's how you do it. And that didn't stop really anybody. Wow. So you, did you pursue that sting or did you? You just say, okay, this is weird, this is crazy. They want to meet up with a 15-year-old boy. What am I going to do next?

Yeah, well, I mean, I was very nervous about any confrontation, like at that time. Like, I was never really nervous, like, in general, to talk to people, but just confronting a complete stranger who's a pedophile. I was like, oh, my God, how's this going to go? So he met up in a Waterburger parking lot, and I brought my friend Jordan to come, and the first bus was just us getting his license plate and just saying, yeah, we got you, then just running back into my car. And obviously, it's changed a little bit since then, so.

But this was the first one. This was the very first one. Wow. So you've just been totally committed from the beginning. Are you afraid of breaking any laws? I don't know what the laws are in private sting operations, but especially if you have a liberal DA or something, I could see, you know, we've got a political order now that always takes the side of the criminal over the good guys. So could you get in trouble? There's always that possibility. But, you know, at this point, at this point, I just tell myself, like, we've gotten how many arrests. this point that we're just going to go gung-ho with it and whatever happens, happens. But we do take a lot of precautions to not get in trouble. Like, for example, we never let them know they're being held there. Like, or they're not being held there, but we never tell them, like, you cannot leave. Yeah. We never tell them, like, if you do this, we're going to call the cops. Or if you do this, I'm going to tell your family, no type of blackmail or anything. Like, we just make the conversation as consensual as possible. And, yeah, there's not really

much people can say about how we do the interviews. And then as for, you know, as for chatting with the predators, like we never, we never, we never, we never, make them into the predator? Like, I tell my decoys, I mean, at this point, they're experts on this stuff, I think, I'm chatting with them. But I told them like, hey, there's no reason for you to want sex with the predator. Like, no reason for you to say as a 11-year-old girl, yeah, come over, blah, blah, blah. Because, you know, all these people that we get online, it doesn't really take much to make them a pedophile. They will just be a pedophile because they are a pedophile. So the idea with the decoys is you just play it straight and let them, let the, let the petos keep moving.

the ball down the field. Yes, absolutely. Yeah, that's what we do. We pose minors online. Once we think we have enough evidence on a person that we think they've committed child sex crimes, we go confront them on camera. We hope to get some missions out of them. Usually, that seems to work, and we hand that over to law enforcement. So how many stings have you done? Oh, my gosh. I think close to 600 over the years. Whoa. Are you involved personally in all of them? Yes. Wow. How long have you been doing this? Four years. Do you ever go to the movies or something? Do you ever have a day off? Well, I don't take off days. I'll love to work. So luckily, I think catching predators is the

funnest thing somebody can do. So it really works out well for me that, like it's my job, but it doesn't really feel like a job. Like, it's a really fulfilling thing to do. And knowing the difference we've made in people's lives, both families of the predators, kids of the predators, their victims and all of that stuff, it really, it's really fulfilling. And, you know, in a way, even for the predators, right? Because these are obviously very, very sick people. Yeah. And it would be bad for them. It's bad for everybody. But it's bad for them as well if they commit these crimes. It's bad for their souls. And it's bad eventually when they get caught. And maybe they

would have done something much worse than whatever it is that you caught them about to try to do. Oh, absolutely. One of the things we like to say in the interviews is like basically given the route of confessing, like, oh, I would have had sex with the girl if she was okay with it. You know, we're talking about an 11-year-old girl here. But if they have the thing of consent in their head, they'll be like, oh, yeah, yeah, I'll admit to that because, you know, I was going to do it if she was okay with it. But, you know, we've had stings where we poses pedos ourselves. Like a guy that I'm about to bring up, David Dunn in Midlothian, Virginia, we were posing as a fake pedophile online. And he either messaged me or I message him.

Well, we know they're petos. We can kind of just throw, like, if we're posing as like another peto, it doesn't really matter who messages first because we usually get them on child porn and stuff like that. But he messaged me saying, like, hey, you know, do you want a trade? And obviously we can't trade child porn or receive any of that because, you know, we're private citizens. We're not like some special people or anything. But, you know, he was under the impression that I had a nine-year-old daughter. That's where my looks are actually a good thing for one. Not around women, but like, yeah, actually a good thing for ones.

Like for petos, because they think that I'm a little older. Yeah, they think that I'm mature enough to have a nine-year-old daughter. And so I actually video called this guy as myself. And he was telling me, like, oh, I'm watching child porn at work. And you can watch this video on Rumble. Just type in Predator Poachers on Rumble. It's there. That video's there. He's like, oh, yeah, I'm watching child porn at work. Oh, yeah. He's like,

oh, so you got a daughter? Oh, I can't wait to be with her. Stuff like that. And it just goes to show you, they're not sorry about anything. They're so, it was really a new perspective for me even because they're so mask off behind the scenes. Like, these people are sick and they take pleasure in what they do. They don't regret it. So how many of these people are just porn-addled, you know, just their brains have been melted? Like they're watching this at, they're watching extremely illegal material at work like they want to get caught. How many of them are just that? They're so far down some fantasy in the virtual realm versus people who have a daughter and are filming things and producing and distributing this kind of pornography. Well, with David Dunn,

it was kind of both. He, since he doesn't talk to his daughters anymore, which in a reason we'll get to here in a couple minutes, his only outlet is child porn. Um, so, So we end up confronting him a few weeks later. He ended up blocking us because we didn't jump on an app to trade child porn with him because we try to get around it like, oh, I'm still, I'm real, but I'll trade with you after we meet. I'm trying to download the pictures. Yeah, yeah. Like, he just wouldn't buy our excuse.

He knew it. He could smell a sting a mile away. Yes, absolutely. So we confront him anyway at his home. And I tell him like, hey, man, I was the guy you were talking to. And he's like, oh, crap. And he ends up confessing to thousands of images of child porn on his laptop, his phone. And the cops teases devices that day, the next day he got arrested.

And, you know, in that interview, he admits to molesting 10 different kids when he was like, probably around my age, like he was like 18, 9, I'm not 18, 19, but when he was around like 18, 19, 20 in a trailer park, he said he had sex with like 10, 11 year old kids, like all around the trailer park. And then he wouldn't fully admit to molesting his daughters, but he's like, he gave the answer, I can't control what I do in my sleep. And then, you know, after he gets arrested, a few weeks later, his daughter gets in touch with me. And, you know, she obviously told the real story about what happened with him.

And it wasn't pretty, so. Whoa. Because I guess in my mind with the Chris Hanson guys, like in that old show, I assumed it was just a bunch of losers, like the biggest losers you've ever seen in your life. I almost felt bad for them in a way. I mean, you don't feel bad because they're going to commit a crime. So, you know, they show up there and you think, all right, well, you get what you get, man. But I guess in that show, you never really hear of them actually doing anything other than, you know, sending all these awful messages to kids online. But what you're uncovering is people, like, not just doing online things, which is bad enough.

Of course. crime and actually leads to victims in the real world. Yeah. But, like, tangible evil acts of sexual exploitation. Yeah, we like to leave no doubt in the videos. Like, my coach in high school always used to say, like, when you finish something, leave no doubt. And, you know, with a video like David Dunn, no, it wasn't some lonely guy who hit

up a 15-year-old. This was a guy going after a nine-year-old girl who admits to all these victims. Like, we like to show these people are not just losers. Yeah, of course they're losers. But they're not just that. We like to show that these people are serial child molesters or serial porn addicts, well, not just porn addicts, but child porn addicts or serial pedophiles. And, you know, I think our videos, or at least the intent of them, is to leave no doubt that these people getting exposed and arrested deserve the rest of their life, if not, you know, death in prison.

So what is the full profile? Is there a variety among these guys? Are there different types? Is there just one type? Is it, you say they're all addicted to porn, obviously. Is it, Is it the porn that's the driver? Are they born this way? Is it some combination? Well, I don't know how much we agree on what I'm about to say or not, but I think it's similar to like being gay to where I do think some people are born gay, but I also think people are molested as kids, and then that gets nurtured. But I think that genetic thing has to be there. So I think it's the same with pedophilia. Everybody that's a pedophile has to kind of be born that way, because we have people, survivors, that watch our channel,

and the last thing they would do is touch a kid, men and women alike. They're like, this is just, I hate these people. Like, they would never touch a kid. Yeah. But, you know, a lot of these people that we catch have been abused. So I think they have to have that gene in them, but maybe abuse when their kids nurtures that gene. And there's a lot of people that we get that just have never been touched as kids.

And they're like, no, nothing happened to me. I had a good family, and I'm just like this. Like, for example, the guy in Georgia we caught yesterday. But is it the case that many or most of them were abused as kids themselves. Like 50-50. 50 is pretty big, though. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't think 50% of the general population was sexually abused, thank God. Right. So that's interesting. I actually hadn't considered that. So disproportionately, these are, this is a self-pro pounding, compounding problem.

But I still think it's genetic, though, because say if they're abused by a family member, well, I think it just runs in that family that people are like that. I mean, we've caught people who, and their relatives reach out to us, and they're like, that whole side of the family does that to their kids. And it really is a very deep cycle. Wow. Yeah, I think it's mostly genetic.

And I think people are just born effed up. Now, they famously have never found the gay gene. Right. So my own musings on the subject are, I guess this is like a non-answer, but it kind of makes you sound smart and open-minded. I just assume there's some combination for all of these sexual proclivities

and all proclivities, for that matter. I assume there's maybe some predisposition from early childhood or from birth, and then some social factors can happen. You know, like a guy, a straight guy goes to prison, and then, you know, all of a sudden he's a gay guy. I don't know, that's kind of... Wouldn't seem genetic to me.

True. And it wouldn't be that he was abused as a kid. It was, maybe it's just some other... So I guess I'm just trying to hone in on the profile of these guys. If they're just born that way, is it hopeless for them? And likewise, if they're born normal and they have a normal upbringing and it's all fine, could even a normal person fall into this stuff too? Well, I think you need to be a normal person falling into it. They have to be genetically predisposed to fall into it.

So the guy we caught in Georgia yesterday, he's like, well, I'm in a child porn because I was watching porn since I was 12 years old. And I'm thinking to myself, well, I first watched porn when I was 14 years old. And, you know, luckily, I haven't watched it in, like, years. But the median age is 11 or something. It's what famous study says that. Yeah, yeah. And, like, you know, in sixth grade, you know, some kid had his phone now. He's like, oh, Alex, look at this.

And it was like porn. But I don't like 11-year-olds. I don't like 14-year-olds. I like adults. So that was a BS excuse. I just think he's born a pedophile. And he tells that to, he tells the porn excuse to himself to obviously sugarcoat what it really is. But, yeah.

I just, it could be the case. What do I know? But I fear on the other side, sugarcoat. the porn. And here's why. Without violating any disparagement or defamation laws or whatever, there was an investigation by sound investigations. Arden Young was the reporter that was talking to executives, I'm sorry, senior staff at Porn Hub companies or the biggest porn company in the world. And they said that they insert themes into the straight pornography. in order to convert.

Now, they would probably say they mean this in a marketing sense. Right. You know, a customer to a new kind of customer. Straight guys to watching porn that they otherwise might not have looked for. Meaning, I, as a reasonable viewer, of this interview, not of the porn, but of the interview, would conclude

that they believe you can change people's porn preferences and tastes and things. I don't want to defame or disparage any of those wonderful sweet senior staff members of porn conduct. Right, right. But it would seem to me that that would be a reasonable conclusion from their words. So is it possible that these guys, that a normal person who just watches a zillion hours of porn might end up in one of your videos? Or no, you say no, it's just genetic. Yeah, but it can be, yeah, but it can be nurtured by that.

Because, you know, when I watched porn from like 14 to 17, it never, it never devolved into, like, you know, regular stuff to like anything crazy or anything like that. Like, it was pretty much like the same thing I would like. But I think people, maybe, you know, maybe it's not a pedigist specific. Maybe it's just they're predisposed social engineering. Or maybe they're more apt to be social engineer than others. Because, you know, my whole thing, my whole thing with porn is like, and even like the Fentonall Crisis and all that, it's like there were to be a crisis if you just didn't watch it or didn't consume it. Right. But, you know, some people are just weaker than others when it comes to that stuff.

Like, I'm weaker when it comes to eating too much, like, obviously. So everybody has their vices. So I don't know. I've asked people, like, is there a certain child porn video you like to view the most? Like, we had this firefighter in Ohio that we caught. But I asked them, so what's your, like, do you have like a favorite video? Do you have, like, one you like to watch? He's like, no, I kind of just go on to the next thing.

And I think that's how a lot of them are. It's like they don't, they save the videos, but they never really go back to it. It's just always a new thing they need to get. That's why they call it a collection, I guess. Wow. So they save the, it's not like they go on a streaming service, and they say, okay, they save it to their computers, which is how they get pinched for possession of child pornography. Right, right. Yeah, they do oftentimes save it. And even if they don't, like, even if they were to go to a streaming service, they, they F themselves because they'll get caught that way too.

Right, right. There's no way to, you can't have anything on your computer without, in some sense, I don't know, I'm not a tech guy, but I assume you have to kind of download it in order to, even look at it. Like, I have to download a file if I want to read the file, even if it's right. Right. I took like seventh grade computer. Yeah, yeah. But I think, I'm speaking from authority here. I think that's what that means, right? Yeah, well, apparently, go back to that guy, Georgia, he said he had a 26, and this is after he got arrested, he had a 26 gigabyte child porn file that he opened, like a couple months ago, as he's out on Bond. And he claims, well, didn't download, I just opened the file up and looked at it. So I don't really know how that works, because, I mean, I don't know. Sounds like you downloaded it.

Yeah, he definitely downloaded it. Are these people extremely stupid? Is the predisposition for them? You mentioned they're weaker, which might be that they just haven't cultivated habits of virtue, or might be that they just are born with a weaker resistance to these things. Is it just because they're idiots? Are they idiots?

Yeah, I'd say a lot of them are, but I think it comes from, it's so easy for them to do it, Because, like, I don't think there's more pedos now than there was 50 years ago. At least percentage of the population-wise. But I think they can just offend 24-7 because they can, you know, 50 years ago, you couldn't go online and wash shallow porn. Now you can. Right. But his first message to our 13-year-old decoys, like, I have pictures, naked pictures of girls your age.

Do you want any? Obviously, we said no. But he's saying that under his name with his fire department logo on as his profile. So instantly, just on that message alone, we could have just confronted him and been like, hey, man, what's up? So, I mean, it's insane. So what explains that? I guess it could be explained by extreme stupidity, but I don't know, he's a fireman, he's like operating in society.

Or is it that they just become convulsed by this obsession and by this lust and by the, it just drives them insane? Yeah, I think it's like kind of like that, like it's like tunnel vision. Because talking to him, he's not a low IQ guy. He's 25 years old. He's a homeowner. He has like two acres doing pretty well for himself. No, definitely not like any type of mental disabilities.

Like if we, if he wasn't a petto, we could probably shoot the crap about anything. You know, he's smart dude. But no, I don't know what it is. I think, you know the game, sharks and minnows you play in the pool? Like, okay, there's one, there's one shark and there's many, many minnows. And I think that's the way they look at it. There's like, what are the chances I'm going to be caught? Because everybody, you know, there's so many of us and only a few people catching them that I think is just that mentality.

So how sophisticated does it get? You mentioned guys just banging around the trailer park, you know, downloading stuff in this really seems like a clunky way. Yeah. When I hear about political stories involving pedophilia, I'm thinking rich guys, I'm thinking smart guys, I'm thinking powerful guys, I'm thinking Jeffrey Epstein's Island. Is that part real? You know, obviously Epstein Island was, but is, or is, are the vast majority of these guys just

like dumb idiots who have no self-control and get caught. Well, I think the elites are definitely real. But the thing is, we're not going to catch. We wouldn't catch them on Instagram or anything like that. So we could only make a difference in what we can make a difference in. Like, you know, if a pet is abusing kids, it doesn't matter if they have billion dollars or if they're on welfare. If they're abusing kids or abusing kids.

So that's the way we look at it. But, yeah, I think that stuff's definitely real. Like, we had a peto in Wyoming who came to drink baby's blood, like essentially adrenachrome, and people say that just doesn't happen. So I don't know. Go on. Okay. So the guy was 19 years old, if you can believe.

I think the sickest mind, like he doesn't have the most victims, obviously, because he's only 19. We've caught like 70-year-olds. But he, but his name is Clayton Tanner. I can say his name because he's convicted already in prison. Clayton Tanner. And 19 years old, what we found out when we interviewed him is that he was already being investigated by Cheyenne Wyoming Police Department for child pornography. So he came to meet.

He was texting because he, so he didn't have. his phone at the time. He was texting us from his mom's phone talking about, we had an 11-year-old decoy with, and we just want to see how sick he was with a baby sister who was one years old. And he's like, I want to cut up. He's like, I want to give you guys cuts with a knife and drink y'all's blood. And, you know, he's saying this on his mom's phone. So he walks over from his house to the park with his mom's phone. He's re-downloaded all of his child porn on his mom's phone. And I asked him, like I said, did you bring the knife? And he brought the knife.

He had the knife with him, full intent there. And he was pretty honest about it, to be surprisingly. And he just admitted, like, yeah, I wanted to do all this. And, yeah. Did he explain why? He said he got abused very hard at four years old. So I think that played a factor into it, but it's not an excuse. Obviously, yeah, I guess it is something of an explanation.

But that one's even... did he say he wanted to have sex with the... Oh, yeah, that was... That was part of it. Yeah, the blood was the hors d'oeuvre. Well, it wasn't just that, too. It was, it was blood. He wanted to literally...

I was trying to think. He wanted to literally, I think, something with... I mean, this was in 2022, so my mind's kind of going blank, but he just would have the most depraved mind we've ever seen from anybody. Do you ever read 120 days of Sodom by the Marquis de Saude? I've not. It's a book of philosophical pornography.

I didn't make it all the way through. But he's a real philosopher. It's where you get the word sadism from, sadist. Yeah, yeah. And it's about, it's written by a real philosopher, but it starts out with this dinner party, and it gets a little titillating. And then before you know it,

it's like people are murdering people. And, you know, it's just as depraved as it gets. That's the nearest I've heard to that in real life. Yeah, but that guy put it. That guy just put it on paper and, well, he probably acted it out too if he's like that. But no, Clayton Tanner, yeah, no, that's, that was his thing. And even just a couple days ago in San Antonio, we caught a guy and he wanted to give a to what we said was an autistic five-year-old.

So, I mean, they have no limit. I mean, you know. That is, that involves . Yes. Right. Okay. Yeah. Ugh.

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, man. You've stumped me. I usually, in interviews, I usually can just kind of follow the conversation. You've stumped me. That is so disturbing. Yeah, it is.

It really is. Like, you know, because the thing with Catch a Predator, you saw like, all right, well, the 13 or 14 year old girl, they want to have sex with them. It's just kind of like a common, like, a little just stereotypical hookup with, like, a kid. But, I mean, it's so common for people to be into infants and toddlers. Like, I would say at this point, I'm trying to think. Let me just think. We've done four catches as a strip already. So four of them, two have been arrested already, and three of them have said they have received child porn as young as five years old,

and only one of them has not admitted to that. So it's more common than not at this point, I think, for our people we get. Do you ever get the guys who produce the porn? Or are they too sophisticated and protected? I wouldn't say they're sophisticated and protected. It's talking about Cheyenne Wyoming. So we had Clayton Tanner. Then the other guy we caught in Cheyenne Wyoming was also one of our worst. His name is Mike Schaefer. He was texting who he believed to be a nine and a six-year-old.

And you can watch all these videos, Predator Poachers on Rumble. All you got to do is type in the city. So P-R-E-D, A-T-O-R-S-P-H-E-R-S, then whatever city. So Cheyenne in this case. Completely free to watch. So Mike Schaefer was texting who he thought was a nine-year-old girl with a six-year-old sister. He wanted to, you know, do stuff to both of them. And there was really no, like, date for the meeting.

He's like, yeah, we'll do it one day and all of this type of stuff. But we found out he worked at a hotel in Cheyenne at the Micro Hotel. And he's convicted at this point, too, so we could say his name. But, you know, so we interview him. He admits to trading child porn and, you know, doing all that stuff, wanted to do all that. But he did not admit to producing child porn. And we only found out when he got convicted that he actually had victims that he produced with. So I think there's a lot of producers that we have caught that we just don't even know about.

And take this guy we caught. I'm not going to say his name because he hasn't been arrested yet, but it's going to come down on him soon. I'll just call him K. So we caught a guy named K. And one of my decoys, he messages me like, hey, should we go after this guy? We try to run this guy's phone number to see if he had any apps that we know to be child porn related. He didn't have any of those. So my decoy, sitting in the audience right now, he messages me saying,

hey, should we message this guy and just see, like, what he's doing? Because the case picture on Facebook was him and his daughter, and his daughter's very young. And my decoy noticed that, you know, like on the banner of Facebook, like how you can have like your profile picked in like your little banner or whatever. So we noticed on the banner that the daughter's face had like some fluid on it right here. And it could have been water, could have been anything, but very strange that

that's in like a pedo-related group on Facebook and that's his little pick. So, so my decoy hits them up as a peto saying like, hey, did you, were able to join any of these apps? And Hay's like,

no, no, I haven't joined any of them yet. But he invites us over for a quote-unquote play date with his daughter. We're near all these people. They're going to be there tomorrow. Yeah, right, right.

And, you know, so he invites us over to his little small town and he invites us over. He's like, come over on Sunday. I get custody of her. She's at her mom's right now. And, you know, my Dekoi asks him like, hey, so what have you done with her? And he's like, oh, I've touched her a little bit. And I've taken some pictures of her. And he's like, we can do all that when you come over. So we go over on Friday, not Sunday, because we didn't want to go over there when she was there, obviously. And I knock on his door. I'm like, hey, we got to talk about these messages just online. And he's like, oh, my God. And he's like, he's like flabbergasted. And he's like so, like, stressed out about all this.

And his excuse to us was, oh, well, you know, I was trying to do what you guys are doing. I was trying to catch Pettos too. And, you know, throughout the interview, I was like, oh, wow, man, cool, cool. So basically I started asking about his family schedules. I'm like, when does your wife go to work? When is your, he has a wife and the ex-baby mama. So, like, when does she go to work? When does she go to work?

Like, basically trying to pin his schedule to prove that he was inviting us over when his daughter was with him alone. And he said enough to where I'm like, dude, you just told me that everything lined up to where you were inviting us over when your daughter was there alone. And I'm like, how does that make any sense that you were trying to catch petos if you're inviting us over when she's alone? And, you know, I asked him too, like, did you tell the police about this? He's like, well, I was going to, I was going to tomorrow.

And of course, he wasn't going to tell the cops. Yeah. And then I asked him, I'm like, there's obviously some type of issue going on. And, you know, he just had a stroke recently, apparently, too. So I, like, kind of let him play into the stroke excuse as to why he's doing this. I'm like, there's something going on, man. You know, and he's like, okay, well, you know, you know, You know, just the past couple months have been curious about this stuff.

And he's like, he just blurts out. I think my daughter's smile was attractive. And I'm like, oh, okay. And he still wouldn't admit to touching her or to producing with her. He already admitted to it, though. But he was saying I was just lying. Yeah, he was like, I was just trying to catch people. But he wouldn't at least, he wouldn't verbalize it on camera.

So I was like, look, man, look, I know there's some pictures taken. It's okay. We all get carried away. I said something to the extent of like, you can be a good father and still make mistakes. And he's like, no, I haven't done. I'm like, well, can we get your phone and just make sure you have? And he's like, oh, yeah. Then he was like, well, can I just go get it myself?

And I'm like, and I'm like, at that point, that's when I was like, I've already seen everything that's on the phone. You have a shitty Android. It's not hard to see what's on there. And I haven't actually seen anything on the phone, but they believe that shit. And I was like, we've already seen anything on the phone. Then he breaks down. He's like, okay, it's the phone at my store. That's where it's at.

And he's like, but I've never touched her, though. I've never touched her, though. And, you know, but the foot's in the door already. And then I ask him, all right, all right, I could go to the elementary school that your daughter's at right now, and I'm either going to hear it from her, I'm going to hear it from you. I told him, I will go walk over there right now and go talk to her. Then he's like, okay, okay, I've rubbed her, I've rubbed her and I've touched her

and then, like, he starts, like, spilling. And then I ask him the question straight up. I'm like, how many times do you have you molested your daughter? And he's like two to three times. And he says that right on camera. Then we call the cops. and he admits it in front of the cops. And right now it's an open investigation on him.

And I think it's going to be our longest sentence when it's all said and done. Is this? That's incredible. That's incredible word. Is this admissible in court? Yes. It is. Absolutely.

Because there's no duress. At least we try to make it that way. There's some PDs that are like, oh, well, you're a bigger guy. You were surrounding him. But we try our best to not do that. Like, we film from the car often towards only me talking to the predator and no, surrounded by anything so they can't say anything. But I believe I told Kibon, like it's voluntary to talk.

talk to us. You know, I didn't force him to say anything he said. Like, I just pointed out inconsistencies and let him say, let him bury himself. So it's absolutely admissible in court. Like, we've had our second longest sentence, which is 35 years for a guy named Jeffrey Wanninger, he's currently serving it out. He didn't, well, he didn't get convicted yet, or maybe he did at this point for texting our 11-year-old decoy.

He got convicted for admitting to us he molested his stepdaughter. So he was dumb enough to not plead guilty. So he went to trial for it. They played our video of him admitting to molesting his stepdaughter in court. And, well, it's pretty blatant. I mean, he got the 35 years. Whoa. I don't think, if I were in your shoes,

I don't think that if I went up to one of these losers who had downloaded 50 bazillion gigabytes of porn, I don't think it would, I would be fighting to restrain myself. I think I'd just say you're just such a sad case and you're doing terrible things, but you have no right, whatever, call the cops, you're arrested. But like one of those guys who says, yeah, oh, yeah, I've been molesting my daughter. How do you restrain yourself when this guy says this?

Because you're very even keel in the videos. Yeah. Well, I knew, I mean, I knew he was so full of shit from the jump when he started saying those excuse, like, oh, I've never touched her. I was just trying to catch people like you. So, you know, with that, if I, if I call him sick and I'm like, oh, you're a piece of crap, you know, he said this anyway. How could you fantasize about your daughter? It would have ended right there. He wouldn't have admitted to it. Now, me getting mad at him for 10 minutes

would have potentially prevented a 50-year sentence in prison. So the ends justify the means. So I think you've already kind of answered this with your other examples here. One of the knocks always on Chris Hansen was that they were entrapping these people, that it was that they were actually creating the lusts and the demands and just by having decoys go on and talk to these older men. Is that a fear that has gone through your mind? That were entrapping them? Yeah. And not even just entrapping them, but that you are actually cultivating the lust that otherwise would not be there without you and the decoys. Absolutely not, because I can't think of a, I can't think of a, one peto in the past however many years,

I truly believe it was their first time talking to a kid, only one. The rest of them have all admitted to talk to other minors before. They've all either, a lot of the, most of them have had child porn. And that's another way we avoid entrapment. You can't entrap child porn on someone's phone. I mean, and a lot of places, like, I would say a lot, but there's definitely been a few places like, for example. We caught a guy named . . . . . . and he was initially charged with,

the enticement of a minor, which is him texting who we believe to be our decoy, and child porn. But he also admitted to us that he molested his three-year-old cousin. So, you know, since Milwaukee basically told us, even though they arrested the guy to like F off and don't do it there again. And we're like, all right. So they ended up dropping the enticement charge. It just went with a child porn because it's so easy, it's so easy to prove in court because then they're going to have to bring like the civilian vigilantes or whatever to testify. So you just say, here's the hard drive. You know, we got him. Absolutely.

And I don't know if he's been arrested for molesting his daughter yet, but they said they were investigating it. So, yeah. How do you let that go, though? I mean, the child porn thing is very bad. And if you can get him behind bars for it, good. Absolutely. But if he's, you know, every moment you don't move on he's molesting his daughter or his cousin

or some person that he has access to, you know, every moment is endangering that kid's life. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I wish there's more, I wish it was a little bit more frantic with the case in Iowa currently too. But, you know, it moves slow. I mean, with Jeffrey Wander, it took him three months to arrest him. We wasn't arrested on the spot. So, yeah, it seems like with the molestation, it moves a little bit slower, sadly.

But they want it because they want to interview the victims. They want all their ducks in a row because it's not like they, I mean, with the guy in Iowa now, they definitely have proof of it because they have the pictures. But, you know, with molestation, it's still he said, she said. And, you know, I guess they just want all their ducks in a row with that. And in their defense, if you're going to prosecute them, you want to get them. Absolutely. So what does law enforcement think of you?

Do they like you or do they not like you for doing their jobs or starting to do their jobs? The overwhelming majority of law enforcement loves us. So, you know, obviously the press release for a PD isn't going to come out and say, hey, we endorse what they're doing. And we've had detectives, like, say behind the scenes, we appreciate what you do. So it's overwhelming support. And, you know, because in the end, we're all in the same team here because it takes, I mean, you're on the same team too. you're amplifying a message that exposes child predators. So it takes all of us because there's way

too many predators and not enough people exposing it. Right. I think the sharks and minnows example is probably a pretty good one where they just think they can't get caught. But you said something earlier that was shocking to me. You said there are apps for pedophiles. How are there at, how'd those get into App Store? Well, let me take that back a little bit. It's not apps specifically designed for pedophiles. Well, Maybe. There's one app called, I only found out about this yesterday. It was called the P. So just apps that other people would use for texting. Correct. They use it like they have like a group text or something. Absolutely. Yeah. And I mean, but there's just one now called that we haven't even hopped on yet because I think that's a one way ticket to be sent child porn. Because it's so encrypted. Yeah. Yeah. So but at least we know when one of the pettos we're talking to says, hey, hop on with us. We don't. But at least we know for sure they have child porn. But at least we know for sure they have child porn. then. I guess in a way it makes sense that they would want to go on these niche apps if they're more

protected or something. But in another sense, that seems like the dumbest thing you would do if you were a pedophile, because then it's like, hey, you know, downloading pedophile.com, you know, to your phone. No, no, I'm innocent. Right. Officer, what are you talking about? Yeah, it's definitely a double-edged sword. And I've told some detectives because a lot of detectives we come across, like, they don't even know, like, what was used for or what, you know, is used for. Because, Because, you know, us being 23 kind of helps because we're like better tech. We're better with technology than like a 50-year-old detective is. But we tell them like, hey, this app is just easy pickings.

Like, you can just scream out. Like it would be like in India. I said you're going to India later. You'd like screaming, hey, Belgrade. And everybody turns around. If you just scream out like, hey, pedo on. Everybody's going to say, oh, that's me. Yeah.

Yeah. Hey, Deepak. You know, everyone phrases their hand. Absolutely. So. I get how you stop the idiots and the truth. trailer parks. How do you stop weird sex stuff in Beverly Hills and Washington, D.C., and Epstein Island in the Caribbean? Just allowing free speech on Twitter and having Trump in office,

that fixes everything. No, I'm just kidding. But like, you know, maybe crap, on my end, right now, with my abilities, we can't. But, you know, there's no perfect solution to everything. You know, we made a difference in the little girl's life in Iowa. Yeah. And that can have a chain reaction. Now we make a difference someone else's life. So there's only, I mean, if there's a room full of shit, do you clean none of the shit or do you clean as much as you can? Right.

And that's the way I look at it. But how do we stop what's going on in Hollywood and all of that? I think it's going to take more whistleblowers and more people who are just like, I don't care if I lose my career over this or potentially get killed, like start naming names and all that. at least outing them, that'd be the first, and then after that, we'll see, I don't know. So how do you, if you've got elite people involved in the weird sex stuff, underage sex stuff, which we know for a fact because we know about Epstein-N-Ey. Absolutely. How do you ever untie that knot when obviously the political order and the police and law enforcement are,

therefore, involved in it? You know, Dick Durbin, who's one of the top-ranking Democrats in the Senate. He was asked by a reporter the other day, Senator Durbin, why won't you subpoena the Jeffrey Epstein flight logs? And he said, oh, no one's ever asked me to do that, which is ridiculous. Marsha Blackburn asked him to do it in the U.S. Senate. And he said, oh, no one wants that. That's Fox News crazy right wing. No, nobody wants that.

And then I think, well, I don't know if Dick Durbin was on the Lillita Express. I have no reason to think he was. I know some of his friends were. Just the Bill Clinton, we know. Yeah. But then furthermore, we know that, according to Alex Acosta, Trump's former Labor Secretary, who was U.S. attorney prosecuting Jeffrey Epstein the first time,

Alex Acosta famously reportedly said that Epstein belonged to intelligence. We know that Epstein's business partner, the madam who procured the girls, we know that her father was mobbed up with intelligence from most likely three different countries. Mossad, MI6, and MI6 thought that he was connected to KGB. I mean, this is all, I think this is only his Wikipedia page. This isn't crazy conspiracy theory stuff. So, we know there were cameras all over the island and his various houses.

I mean, it seems like an intelligence operation, or at least somehow connected to intelligence. So then, okay, if the ruling political class is involved in this, good luck trying to stop it or even discover very much about it. Oh, yeah, absolutely. It's going to take every single person. in Congress and all the way up to the president. Maybe we can keep Thomas Massey, the rest of them have to go. It's going to take all of them to just leave and be overhauled in order to, I think,

subpoena this. Because it's not just the Democrats, it's the Republicans too. Like, you know, my thing with Trump is like, okay, if he's really an outsider. Like, okay, I think there's a difference between not a politician versus being an outsider. He's not a politician, sure, but he's definitely not an outsider. I mean, he donated to Hillary, was bald buddy, buddy with her, even said, like, during his presidency, oh, we like to get her locked up before the election. Now we don't really care. He said this. And, you know, that's my issue with him. If he really is about it, he should

have been screaming and hollering every day, release the flight logs, release the flight logs, release the flight logs. And that's kind of my issue with him, among other things, like the VACs. But yeah, it's a whole different other conversation. Right. So you're a man of the right. You're a right wing. Very, very, very, very far right. Yeah. Are there, are there any liberals involved in the catch a petto community? Predator catcher-wise, there's really nobody who's a leftist. It's kind of... Funny that.

Yeah, right, right. I will say, though, most of the people we cash, I guess, are Republican voters. Not conservative in practice, because a lot of them are, like, on disability and welfare and all that stuff. But, you know, we get a lot of comments, like on YouTube for, I mean, on Rumble, for example, like, oh, but you look at you, you're catching another right-winger. I'm like, okay, but who are... The person arresting him's the right-winger, the person catching him is the right-winger,

like the, you know, so it's... Right. I once heard this described as pedophile is to Republican accusation as racist is to Democrat accusation. That basically on the right, we go too far in smearing everyone as a pedo, just like the libs smear everyone as a racist, whether it's justified or not. Do you think there's any legitimacy to that accusation? Oh, man. I don't know, because I don't know. because I think, like, do I think those elementary school teachers, like these, like,

these, like, dumb blue-haired women teaching five-year-olds about sex? Do I think those women are petos? Probably not. Yeah. But I just think, I just think they think it's just not a bad thing. Yeah. Like, I don't think they would have sex with a five-year-old student, you know, but evil has no limit, so you don't know. But they'll put pornography in the hands. Right, right. As long as it's illustrated and published by a major publishing house, they'll put, you know, a book that shows explicit sexual acts between kids into the hands of young children. Right. And I think those are more of the useful idiots because there's basically, I mean, there's useful idiots on both sides and the world needs useful idiots to exist because, you know, without, if there's leaders, there's going to be useful idiots. That's just the truth. But those are the useful idiots. And they true, I think they truly can't make the connection about sex, like kids are looking at porn to, like, eventual pedophilia and grooming.

they make that connection, obviously the people at the top putting that in the curriculum, obviously are pedophiles. And obviously, no, that's the case. But I just think, like, with a lot of things, they're the useful idiot, the henchmen are the ones like that get all the slack and the people behind the scenes are the ones. You know, I try to give, even the people at the top, I try to give them grace, or credit at least. I try to be as charitable as I can to say, maybe it's not that they're pedophiles. Maybe it's that they are just beholden to an ideology that sincerely believes that sex is totally liberating and we should divorce it from marriage and little children should have sex. And I mean, there were theories going back to like Wilhelm

Reich and these leftists in the 1960s who really believed it would free children. They would claim it would cure war, poverty disease. And so you think, look, that's completely nuts, it's wrong, it's evil actually, but they know not what they do. That's what I try, that's what I try to tell myself. And then I see someone like Orrin McIntyre over the Blaze who says, just let's tap the sign, it's not that complicated, they just want to dittle kids. One of his most famous lines, probably. Yeah, yeah. Maybe there's something to that. I don't know. No, I think so, because it's truly, truly what I figured out doing this, I said a couple minutes ago, like evil has no limits.

So we've thought with, we thought with some pedos like, yeah, they do this, but I don't think they do this. Then we find out when they get arrested, oh, they did do this too. And, you know, I think I wouldn't give these people the top credits. Like, you know, the shit libs that are the ones teaching the kids. The ones like at the top don't give them credit to think they're just ignorant too. They know exactly what they're doing. George Soros knows exactly what he's doing.

These people, I mean, evil just exists. You know, Hitler and Stalin weren't the only evil people to exist in the world. Like, you know, everybody points to them. They weren't the only evil to exist. Evil exists right here in our country, too. And I think a lot of people don't really, because our lives have been so good. I mean, in the end, like, no matter if Biden's in office, if Trump's in office, in the end, we still go home to our video games and our porn and shit.

So nobody really cares. What a great life. Exactly, exactly. But at least people think it's a great life. Yeah, 100%. So people don't care enough about the evil that truly does exist here because all they hear about is, oh, well, evil was like in Germany and stuff. Evil was like here.

but it wasn't ever here, it is. Right. So getting back to something that we talked about earlier, what do you do with these petos who are either hardened by decades of porn or whatever, you know, formed them,

or they were abused themselves, or they're born that way, let's say, I don't know. Any situation, is there any path to redemption for these people? Yeah. The guy yesterday, the guy yesterday, I think he truly needed help. And because he's just too addicted to his phone with a child porn.

So what I did to get him help, I called this help number. Let me try to remember the number. The three numbers? It was 9-1-1. Yeah, okay. And if he was in prison, he'd have no phone to watch child porn. So I got, I was trying to get him that help yesterday. Then the detective came and took all of his devices.

So he's already in step one of our little help program. That's good. But no, in all seriousness, in all seriousness, these people, there's no helping these people. They're born that way. Do you think if you had, okay, you love your wife, right? So if you had therapy to not love her, would, or to not love her and not want to, you know, not find her attractive, do you think that therapy would work? No. Not in the case of my wife. She's a unique case as just the smoke and hottest little ellies in the world that I've been in love with for now the majority of my life. However, however, however. if it were some lesser woman than my sweet little Elisa. I don't know. If it were just some girl I dated,

and then I were conditioned through therapy to be told all these terrible things about her or to point out all her flaws or something like that, I could probably have a weakened attraction to her. I'm trying to use the analogy here. You're telling me there's nothing.

It pains me to think this, because as a Christian, I have to believe that redemption is available to all people. And so I'm not, you know, I like the self-help number that you called for these guys. It's so simple, yeah. It's very simple to remember even. And even going back to like Plato in the Gorgias, he points out, Socrates points out in this great work of philosophy that it is worse to do harm than to be harmed. it's worse because it you can't control being harmed suffering is a fact of the world there's nothing

particularly moral or immoral about that but if i do evil i'm compromising my own soul so you know i mean you're joking about it but you actually are helping these men by by doing this for them but therefore is it not the case that they will get some help in prison and they will not have their phones and perhaps their addiction to this stuff will be mitigated or no you're just shaking you're shaking Zero. Zero. I'm telling you, man, zero, because we kind of got him in Las Vegas in April this year. He served 18 years in prison from like, let's just say 2000 to 2018. My ears are a little bit off here, but just paraphrasing. For child molestation, multiple victims, he somehow scored himself a retrial, so he was out on parole. We caught him April. He had a retrial coming up in June.

He could have been a free man right now if he would control himself. So when we caught him, He was texting who he thought was a nine-year-old girl. We caught him. He admitted to 50,000 images of child pornography. And this is, as he was wearing his ankle monitor, about to have trial in two months, to potentially get everything to up. You're saying he admitted to having had all that child pornography,

or he had it even on parole? Currently, currently. And his excuse was, it was a really funny excuse. It was adorable. How did he have enough time to get that much pornography? That's what I'm saying. I don't know. He's like, this is how he was.

He was like, it just comes at me every day, man. It's like, do-da-da-da-da-da-da. And like, I'm like, how many do you have? He's like, oh, 50,000. And his excuse was he's collecting them to give to the FBI. And he's like, I have folders in my room that say FBI on them. There wasn't no folders like that. Yeah, I wouldn't expect them. Yeah, I was like, well, are you at least like saving them into categories so you can give them? He's like, yeah, I'm saving all of them. And I'm like, all right, all right. Like, but yeah, so because of that, obviously, you know, that, because of that, obviously the whole retrial thing didn't happen.

And he's back in prison for the rest of his life. And see, that's the thing. They can't even not look at child porn for a couple of years to potentially get the worst heinous crime dropped forever. And there's another guy in Oregon, he got a three-year sentence. Just think how long that is in Oregon. That's how you know he's bad. Yeah, right.

Oregon, you could murder a man. They'd take you out to lunch at the prison and then you're out by dinner. Oh, absolutely, absolutely. So he was a sex offender, messaging who he thought was an eight-year-old girl. We caught him in 2021. If you just look up Predator Poseer's Eugene, Eugene, Oregon, on Rumble. You'll see that catch there. he was a sex offender. He just spilled all the beans. He was one of the most honest predators we caught. And looking back on it, it's probably because he liked to talk about what he did to his kids and his cousins and all that. But he spilled everything. And then he was telling me like, yeah, well, I take sex offender counseling and I'm the head of my class. Like, he's the one that helps other sex offenders not do it. And he's talking to an eight-year-old girl.

Oh. Can they be helpful ever then? Okay. So you're your, you're a single. saying that actually the self-help plan for them is life in prison. Absolutely. There's no, that maybe they can, you know, accept God's grace, work on their soul, but they can never be granted to any degree of political freedom because they're just not capable of it. Correct. Okay.

Can they be helpful to law enforcement, you know, ratting on the weird apps or the group chats or anything like that? Yeah. Like, I've never been in a child porn group. I've never opened up a m-a-k-k. I've never opened up a m-de-h. I've never been in a child porn group. I've never traded child porn.

Like, I haven't seen any of this crap, but I have so much knowledge of it because of interviews with pedos. Because a thing that I like to tell him is like, look, man, I care about the producer. Because that's how the guy spilled yesterday because he, you know, he was claiming he didn't have how he's like keeping himself accountable. It's all bullshit. But, you know, I'm like, hey, man, why care about the producers? You know, because you're just a guy.

You have vices and you have demons you're fighting. But these guys are actually evil. Then he's like, okay. well, this is what they're sitting in the chats. Boom, boom, boom, boom. Wow. And, you know, so I know a lot about this stuff just from what Pettos have told me. So, yes, they can be very helpful.

And I think, you know, if law enforcement doesn't already utilize them to give info on other people, they definitely should. Though I wonder what the incentive would be for them. Because you're saying, if you let them out of prison, they're just going to reaffend, you know, almost every time. So, I don't know, what did they get next for helping a dessert or something? Yeah, I think that'd be good. I think that'd probably be the best thing, yeah. Right. Why not?

So what's the future of predator poachers? Well, I have zero goals. All I know is we just move forward. Like I like to say, a beautiful picture is painted with a little small stroke. So, you know, every day is a stroke, right? So, no, I mean, the way I look at it, like, obviously we want to keep growing predator poachers. And I'm going to keep growing predator poachers, we want to be a bigger influence. And I think you're helping a lot with that, so I really appreciate it.

Are you concerned that it personally will take a toll? that you're just being around, even if you're saying, look, I'm not, I don't have to look at the images, I don't need to, but you're still hearing the accounts, you're still seeing the chat logs, which are sick. You post them sometimes to Twitter and you, or X, and they're even just reading that stuff. You just think, you know, the eyes are the window to the soul. I don't need this. Do you ever, you ever get burnt out? No, like, this is the funnest thing in the world to me. And, yeah, I don't know. The thing that's been taking a toll is like traveling the country half the month in a car. Like since doing this in 2019, I've gained like 70 pounds.

That's not a stress. It's shut out of sitting down a lot and eating a lot of great food, by the way. But, you know, but no, mentally no, because, you know, all I look at it is it's just adversity. And everybody has adversity. But I'd rather much be doing this than like a nine to five. So it is what it is. What about the police academy? Oh, when I settled down with my girlfriend and she moves in and we have kids, yeah, probably so.

But not before then. What does your girlfriend think about your line of work? Well, I met her because she was watching the channel, so she likes it. Really? Wow, that's good. That's good to have a spouse on board with what you're doing. Is there anything that surprised you? When you got into it, obviously you had been watching this kind of content that you were now producing. And you were eager to catch the bad guys. Did you know what you were signing up for?

Was there something that you didn't expect? I did not know what I was signing up for. Like, I didn't start doing this with the intention of like, oh, I want this many subs on YouTube or I want to make this a job. I literally was like, all right, what the hell? This should be interesting. And so, no, there was literally just no, it was just on a whim. And I think, and I blame my parents for that in a good way because growing up,

they, you know, they weren't strict at all. I mean, they weren't absent, but they weren't strict. Like, they were just very, like, laissez-faire with like, just be home by this time and, you know, go organize a football game or whatever. So they gave me a lot of freedom to just think outside the box and it just be like, what's the word for it? Not unique, but I don't know. I just basically think outside the box as in like just, you know, not do everything by the book.

Don't have to, like, you have to do this at this time. So, you know, I think the whole idea of predator poachers was just the fact that they've ingrained in me from a young age, like, hey, if you want to go do it, just go do it. Just don't be an idiot. And so definitely that. What was the question again? If you were surprised by any. Oh, yeah, yeah.

So what I'm surprised by is like we started posing as like 15, we started posing as 15-year-olds. And I was at 19 years old, I was shocked that anybody would be going after a 15-year-old. Because even me at 19, I was like, well, I wouldn't go near a 15-year-old. That's like weird. Because, you know, I remember in eighth grade, you know, we had a kid on the football team. And he was dating a sixth grader. And we all looked at him as like, ah-ha, ha. You know, like, we looked at him like that.

That's a two-year age difference. Those two years matter a lot. You know, they matter less over time, but, you know, you're talking about a sixth grader is like 11 years old. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's definitely more so in middle school that it's weird than, like, now. My girlfriend's two years older than me, and I always joke with her, like, I'm going

to go catch a peto when I confront you. So when I see you, so, like, but, but yeah, no. So what I'm surprised by is, like, obviously at first it was like, holy cow, people actually like kids. And then we would pose like 13 years. old, 12 years old, like, no way. Somebody would go after a 13 or a 12 year old. And then it became like people like infants and toddlers. And that was like, I was like no freaking way. Like in 2022, we caught our first guy and I was like, no, no, this guy's like the worst, bro. And now it's

like every other guy's into infants that we get. So is that, is that new? It's probably not new. I'm sure there have been weirdos for all of history. But, but like, I guess I'm just wondering, is the problem getting worse? Are the crimes getting more violent? Are the victims getting younger? Or no, is this just the way it's always been? Well, so I think the same amount of, I think the same percentage of the population of petos exist back then as now, but the internet gives them a 24-hour window to offend,

which think about any other crime. Like, if I wanted to go rob a bank, I couldn't do it 24 hours a day. I'd have to, like, plan it for a couple months and all that stuff. Not giving any tips or anything, I wouldn't know how to do it. But, like, I didn't plan it for a couple months and all that stuff. But with these petos, two clicks, and they're offending. So then isn't it, it would seem to me, and this sometimes irks the small government types. And look, I like a limited government.

But I don't want it to be small. I don't think you can have a small government in a country of 330 million people. I want the government to arrest the bad guys. That's a bigger government that does that. If the thing that is leading these guys who might have sick fantasies, but now they're acting them out with images alone, and now they're texting people, and now they're going to visit, if we put limits on how the internet can be used on, they try to do this in the 90s, the Communications Decency Act and the Child Online Protection Act, if we put limits on pornography companies, if we put limits on some of these apps that are being used for child pornography, There are insane limits being put on Twitter, right, by corporations, but yet we're not seeing limits being imposed on apps being used by pedophiles. Wouldn't that be good for everybody and especially good for the petos themselves so they don't have 24 hours a day to commit their crimes?

Yeah, I agree. Like, people say, like, oh, should be banned from the app store or banned general. I don't agree with that because I think freedom and God-given rights over. everything to me. However, I don't see how being able to message who you want on has to involve, like, child pornography. Like, there has, there, there could be censors for that, I think, on to, like, that's obviously not freedom. Like, in the sense that this guy gets out on parole, and then he instantly downloads 50,000 child pornography images. Right. He's not a free man. Our law might have classified him as free or somewhat free,

but if you don't have any control over yourself, if you're being enticed, even by, you're by all sorts of technologies and other creeps on the internet, you're not free, that is not freedom. Actually, more limitations would give you more freedom in that case. I see what you're saying. I see what you're saying for sure. Like, I still think it just falls on the individual. But I do think that, you know, it takes two. Like, I think it's 90% the individual's fault and 10% of the f***'s fault. But yeah, they need, there are ways. I mean, if the FBI can ding images, like, because that's how it works. They do. They do. Basically, there's certain child porn videos and pictures that flow around, like, very commonly.

So the FBI has those videos marked. And I think... And these other apps, they can stop the child porn problem without having to compromise people's ability to text somebody. Hey, let's go over here. Hey, what's up? Hey, let's text here because I don't want, you know, people seeing my text messages. Yeah. What's wrong with that?

I don't... I'm as skeptical of the FBI in the deep state as anybody. Yeah. I'm all for true freedom. Why can't they just do whatever the FBI is doing with this image and they see the image pop up and maybe even they report the guy at the very least. They don't let it go around the app. Yeah, I think, I think, yeah, I think reporting that would be good too, if anything. They can easily do that. They can easily do that. Send it on over to the FBI and let them handle it. Yeah, maybe send them over to you. Yeah, well, shoot. I mean,

doesn't even respond to subpoenas though. So, I mean, as for the feds doing it, like, we've had feds take up a lot of our cases. Um, not most of the, them, but a lot of them. And I mean, the feds that work at the sex crime, they seem to be, like, very passionate about what they do, and it's not political for them. So, very often in these conversations, no matter the topic, some have been explicitly religious, some have not been really religious at all, but a spiritual dimension sometimes creeps in. And I imagine when we're talking about pretty much the most evil thing you can imagine, there is a spiritual element here as well. on the scale of these guys don't consider anything in the metaphysical realm to these are

interdimensional demons worshipping Satan. Where do your marks fall? Well, for example, the guy Georgie yesterday's dad's a pastor, he identified as a Christian. Then we've also had people who are just atheist or pagans. Like we had a guy in Florida recently. He was, he's like, I'm a pagan, so I was like, he was wearing a pentagram when we caught him. And I'm like, well, is that like devil worshiping? He's like, no, no, it's just your one with the earth and the wind of the trees.

I'm like, I'm just thinking so devil worshiping. Tomato, tomato. Yeah, right, right. So, no, it's really an array of things. We've absolutely caught our fair share of religious guys, but we've also caught our fair share of just people who don't do any of that religion stuff. They just, I mean, they just worship themselves pretty much. They just worship child porn. They just create an idol out of that.

Yeah, absolutely. Well, even the word fetish goes around. You know, the origin of the word fetish is that it refers to a religious taboo, like an object of religious worship, not in true religion, but in like a pagan cult type thing. So it would seem to me not surprising that these guys who are willing to risk their ability to evade jail so they can download some more glittering images. would get into a little idolatry. I think, I forget where I read this years ago, that it was in the

American mind that porn is obviously a type of liturgy. It's a type of religious ritual. I think so. I agree with you. To even, wow. How degraded do you have to be, even just to spend your time doing that? I know. I know. If you don't get all that much time, You're going to die at some point. You know, you have a limited amount of time on Earth. You said, that's how I'm going to spend my time. That is so, my friend Drew Claven has a line. He says, sin would be really, really funny, if not for all the suffering. And that is, it's, I don't want to laugh at it because it speaks to something that's very sick. That is so funny. That is such a funny thing that they do. Yeah, yeah. Minus all the suffering. Absolutely. Yeah, no, it's, it's unbelievable how, uh, it's, it's unbelievable how, uh, a 50-year-old man. Yeah, when you think about it, a 50-year-old man is talking to a fake 11-year-old girl controlled by a 25-year-old woman and, you know, some fat 23-year-old guy, and to that, to the idea that it's all real. It's, yeah, it's unbelievable. Like, we think, like, we always say to ourselves, too, like, we're driving to a Pettos house. We sometimes ask, like, what do you think

he's doing around? He has no idea. We're on a 15-hour drive to, like, South Dakota right now, about to go get him. And yeah, they just have, they just, I don't know, it's, it's all absurd. Yes. I guess that's what it's all about, though. You mentioned this guy who's wearing a satanic symbol. You say, no, I'm not a Satanist. No, no, no, I'm not. I'm one with the earth man. Or no, I'm just looking at porn. Or I'm just. Should be one with the earth under, buried under a bit. Like, he might soon be. One can wish. But, like, they, like, they, I guess that's one of the marks of the devil is not just the spooky, you know, evil stuff and rotting eggs or something, but that it's so grotesque. It's, there's something so just out of proportion and shape. I don't know. That, what you, what you've just described with the cell phone screen is, is, that might be the weirdest thing you've told me all day.

Yeah. Yeah, because it's just weird in any context, whether it's a petto or like, you know, anybody, like some hot, hot, hot, hot, woman. Like, it's just disgusting. On that disgusting note, no, there's one more question I have to ask you before I let you go. We've talked about all the guys you've caught. Yeah. You've gotten and they go to jail and you find out they've committed way more crimes. How many people get away? So, let me just use an example.

So this trip, I'll just use an example this trip. So far, we're in the middle of one. So after we bolt out of here, we're going to go up to Evansville, Indiana and hopefully get two people near there. So this trip, so far two have been arrested. The guy in Georgia was not arrested yesterday, but the guy in Florida and the guy in Louisiana were arrested. The first guy in San Antonio, who was given the to, or wanted to give a five-year-old, the cops arrest him. Well, I didn't arrest him. Sorry, they didn't arrest him. They detained him, took him to the station. Detectives interviewed us. Everybody was on board with wanting the predator arrested. And then

the DA comes, absolutely not. One of these Soros DA type things? Yes. And then also in Las Vegas, like we had the arrested in Las Vegas. But, you know, even a Soros DA can't say 50,000 child porn. It's like, you know, it was. The first 49 you get a pass. Right, right. Yeah, there was a limit on that for sure. But we had another guy in Las Vegas recently.

He admitted to receiving all this child porn to talking to countless 12-year-old girls that we were not controlling and stuff. And I mean, I'm sure, very rarely do they admit to molesting real kids, but, you know, we can get, like, talking to other minors a child porn out of them. But he admits all this, and the cop comes. He's like, you know, he's like, he's like, he's just, he comes. He pulls me aside. He's like, Alex, I'm really sorry. I was on the phone with the prosecutor, and they said absolutely the f*** not.

And, you know, and, you know, he hangs up. He's like, we're working on this stuff with, he's like, he's like. What's the argument? Why not? They're overloaded with, they don't have time? I don't know. No. I don't know. Or they don't want. I guess because we were civilians. It's really weird. So we run into that a lot in big cities. But I'd say in small towns, like, in small towns, we absolutely get way more arrested than we don't get arrested.

So is that is that a risk, though, that your work could compromise work that law enforcement is already doing? Or no? Is that it just an excuse for law enforcement? No, because out of the hundreds we've done, I think only 10 have been investigated. We're currently being investigated by law enforcement. So even this guy who was out on Bond, you can watch his video, just type in predator poacher's Converse, like the Converse shoes on Rumble, you'll find it. He was out on Bond for child pornography. We didn't catch him. Just, you know, the feds did or whatever.

He's out on bond for child pornography. He hits up our 14-year-old male decoy. And, you know, so we go to his house, we could write about the messages, and he admits to having infant pornography on his phone. and, you know, he gets caught up and arrested again. So, yeah, no. So even when law enforcement's already on them, it typically just adds more shit to their rap sheet.

Wow. So I would be remiss if I didn't ask. How do parents protect their kids? Well, I mean, I was protected as a kid because I was an ugly, fat little chubster. So like, not many people were after seventh grade Alex. But in all seriousness, I mean, I think, first of all, there's no perfect solution to everything. There's always a risk with everything, but I still don't think be paranoid because that's letting them win.

But I think, I truly think the best way is hand your sons of football or basketball or baseball if they're into that stuff. You know, whatever. Or just put your girl in theater class or whatever. But, you know, it's the same thing. Like, we of course blame, we of course blame the robbers and the rapist for crimes they commit. But if your gates unlock to your house and your doors open, yeah, it's still the robbers' fault. They shouldn't be doing it. But, like, you know, you could also lock the door. So I think just hand your kids a football or basketball.

I didn't get my first phone or PlayStation. First smartphone or PlayStation, I was in eighth grade. Like, hand your kids, make your kids go play sports. Two birds and one stone. Kids are sitting down too much anyway. Go have them run or something. Right. I seriously think that. It does seem to me that if you, today, even if it were different in the past, before technology was so advanced, if you give your kid a smartphone today without really period,

but certainly without any kind of limits on it, you're just handing them a portal to hell. Yes. I can't even imagine it. Easy for me to say because my kids are still young. But as far as I'm concerned, I don't want my kid to get his first phone until he's like 36, you know. Maybe 18 we can start talking.

Yeah, yeah. Because, you know, it's not like occasionally I would bar, my mother's phone when I was in eighth grade or early high school. But I didn't, you know, that was like I could play snake or Tetris maybe if I was lucky on. You know, this wasn't like you get pedos just beaming in from outer space just trying to, with cameras on the phone, you know, it's just completely a different world. Yeah. Oh, I mean, like, even me, like in seventh grade, you know, I joke that no pedos would want it, whatever. Like, I was in a group chat on kick in seventh grade. What I thought was

like a seventh grade girl hit me up saying, oh, show me your shit. And I'm like, oh, what, what? But looking back on it, it was probably an adult guy asking for that. So, I mean, yeah, so, I mean, it's that common. But again, I wasn't on technology much as a kid. Like, I was always outside playing sports and having the time of my life. A good, good bit of advice to end on. Alex, this was deeply unpleasant. Yes. You are not deeply unpleasant. You are very pleasant and have done some great work. I don't want to have to think about this. Right.

You will be thinking about it because it's your job. But best of luck in your endeavors and hope you nab all sorts of terrible bad guys. Best of luck to you too. Alex, thank you very much. Thank you so much. Thank you. We'll see you next time.

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